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Tell me about your vision.

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Yeah, so my vision really is where we can collaborate

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effectively and solve complex problems.

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The pressing ones, the big ones.

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But how do we do that?

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We, as a hyper social species,

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have this ability to collaborate.

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It's called empathy.

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But for far too long,

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our understanding of empathy

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has been something relatively simple.

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It's been something of, you know,

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it's a genetic lottery,

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or it's a pseudo psychic ability,

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or it's the ability to walk into a room

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and just immediately know what everybody needs,

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or it's being able to read someone's face.

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But we're in the middle of a scientific revolution

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when it comes to empathy.

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In 2009, there was some research that came out

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that showed that as a society,

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our empathy levels for each other had dropped significantly.

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Really?

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Mm-hmm.

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And after that, there was a ton of research

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that went into it to understand why.

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And then also, newer equipment, FMRI machines,

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we were able to get more empirical data

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about what empathy is.

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So kind of, you know, 20th century understandings of empathy,

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which most of us, it's made its way into common knowledge,

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is really built around this idea of, you know,

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it's kind of a genetic trait, similar to adult height, right?

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But what we're learning now is that

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it's actually a whole system within our bodies,

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and it's influenced by our surroundings.

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So our empathy levels fluctuate over time,

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and they manifest themselves in different ways.

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And so this means that if we understand

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on a more technical level what empathy is,

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like, we can reverse engineer collaboration,

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and we can optimize how we communicate

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and how we interact with each other

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so that we can more effectively coordinate our work,

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coordinate our behavior,

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so that we can solve those big,

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pressing, challenging problems together.

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So if I finally grew up in a horrible home, for instance,

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or I wasn't taking very well care of,

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I end up in a home that does end up taking care of me.

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My empathy for the home that does take care of me,

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where it might've been non-existence before,

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because I had no experience with a home that cared for me,

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it's not gonna go through the roof,

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but my disdain for my past,

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what I grew up with is going to be enhanced

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because of, my gosh, like, I don't wanna be like them,

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I don't wanna associate with them at all anymore.

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And that's that paradigm shift with the internet, right?

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Having been more predominantly established,

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it's far easier to find people outside

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of your traditional upbringing

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who can relate to what you're going through,

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which would, once again,

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provide that whether you're leaving the home or not,

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there's a virtual version of that taking place

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that might disrupt your relationships

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in a way that then people seeing you on a daily basis

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can't comprehend, or more, nobody can really see it.

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I think that's one example.

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I think the internet has definitely,

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and social media for sure,

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has made it easier for us to find our affinity groups,

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to find the people who are like us.

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But that also means that where you can be

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in echo chambers a little bit,

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where we're having fewer interactions

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with people who are not like us.

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So we're leaning more on stereotypes.

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There's also a lot of cultural tropes that we see on TV,

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and that's where we kind of get our impressions.

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I am particularly interested in how this shows up

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in the way that we build software and technology.

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And in particular, this idea that there's a soft skill

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and hard skill divide.

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And that I've seen can really be to our detriment

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because if I have a background in marketing

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or strategic communications,

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and I don't know what it's like to be a software developer,

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then there's that friction of just like,

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we don't understand how to work with each other.

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And I had a background in this

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because I came from strategic communications,

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and a friend from high school asked me to join

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his software company and lead it as a CEO.

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He had a traditional engineering background,

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and I didn't understand the role.

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I didn't understand the specific things that he needed.

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And we patted heads all the time,

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but we were able to work through it

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because we took the time to understand each other.

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We developed specific shortcuts

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for how we communicated with each other

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based on our own lived experience

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of trying to understand each other.

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So I'll give you an example.

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I'm someone who has big ideas.

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I'm a visionary.

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I like to talk about my ideas and externally process them.

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My partner, Scott, is much more of a detail oriented person.

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He's a very critical thinker.

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So as soon as he sees the problems first.

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So I would be giving this like,

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we could do this and we could do this.

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And he would interrupt me and say, well, actually.

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And it would like deflate my balloon.

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I share that with Scott sometimes.

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Yeah, so what we did was we came up with a framework

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because this was something that was happening over time.

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And I was able to share like,

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this is really disruptive for me

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and it's hard for me to collaborate.

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And he shared, well, it comes out of compassion

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because I care about your idea and I wanna see you succeed.

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And if I know something, and I had no idea,

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I thought he was like, the way I had internalized it

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was you're trying to make me look stupid.

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Right?

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So it was a mismatch.

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Trying to prevent that from happening.

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Yeah, and so I find that a lot of times,

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in organizations, especially when we have different roles

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where we have to collaborate with each other,

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there's just these hidden mismatched meanings

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that once we establish that we care about each other,

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we can learn what each other needs

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and then we can work together

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to establish some communication frameworks.

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So the one that Scott and I came up with was,

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as soon as he sees me like, we could do this,

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he'll pause and instead of immediately saying

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what I should do or course correcting,

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we've said, okay, what kind of feedback are you looking for?

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Are you looking for macro feedback,

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micro feedback or no feedback?

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And that has been game changing.

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And that is what empathy is, right?

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It's a great boundary as well.

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Yeah, well, and it's a way to shortcut and say,

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okay, I recognize that I have this habit.

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I see these challenges, but we've negotiated ahead of time,

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how can we develop protocols to effectively collaborate?

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It's big.

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And yeah, and that's just one example.

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Right.

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So that's really what I'm trying to teach

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is there is this technical side of empathy.

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It's not walking into a room and immediately

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like feeling everything that everyone's feeling.

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There are people who are very sensitive to that.

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I would consider myself one,

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but it's really getting down to understanding each other's

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mental models, establishing compassion,

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and then improving our communication with each other

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so that we can work together and take advantage

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of our diverse thinking so that we can create

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something amazing together.

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It's huge.

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So one thing that you sparked in my mind,

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whether it's what you meant to or not, Andrea,

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I think it's brilliant, it's genius,

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being able to create frameworks for empathy.

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And you've moved towards a common thread

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that's often overlooked.

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And that's not the case for everybody,

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but most people are on TikTok,

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or most people are on Facebook,

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or most people are on Instagram,

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or most people are using Google as a tool, et cetera.

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And the byproduct of integrating empathy

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into the development of the software itself

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is that all of these people who are individualistically

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using these tools, they're all gonna be affected by that.

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For good and for bad.

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If empathy is missing, then we're gonna yell at Siri

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and Alexa.

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I see it all the time.

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I don't know, people getting so frustrated with those.

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My sister one day, I heard her talking to Alexa,

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and she said, thank you.

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And after receiving what she did,

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and she asked her so kindly for whatever it was.

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And I was like, that's weird.

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I've never heard that.

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I immediately had a thought of wisdom.

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I was like, oh my gosh,

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her kids and my kids hear her do that, and they hear me.

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Oh, I gotta be nice to this technology.

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This is prime example of me setting the stage for my kids.

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For what type, how do we, what tone do we use?

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What cadence do we use?

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How do we interact, not just with the machine,

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but of course everybody in life,

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what we practice like we play, ultimately.

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Where are you going with this vision?

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Because this is massive, huge.

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Are you working with startups,

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working with grand companies?

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And yeah, what's not the end game,

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but the path, the journey look like moving forward.

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Yeah, you catch me at a really interesting moment

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in my life right now.

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I've been giving talks about this for over a decade.

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Folks hire me to come in and give keynotes.

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I've published a lot.

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I've been working on a book for several years.

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And Empathy in Tech is a community

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that kind of grew very organically.

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We're looking at moving into a nonprofit.

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And I think that with a nonprofit model,

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my hypothesis is that we would be able to scale

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these ideas a lot more.

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And the mission of the nonprofit is to accelerate

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the responsible adoption of empathy in the tech industry

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is a way to solve our most pressing and complex problems.

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And doing that through education, skill development,

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remapping stereotypes, especially around like geeks

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don't have social skills or girls can't code.

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There's a whole lot that goes into that

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from a cultural standpoint.

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So my thinking right now is that kind of bring that to life

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in a more formal way is kind of the place

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where I feel called.

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I've been more of a content producer

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and kind of more on the theory building.

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I just had a meeting with my publisher today

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and I think we're gonna put the book on pause

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for a little bit, which is hard.

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It's really, really hard.

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I've done all the consulting,

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but I feel like I want to get more in it.

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I want to be less abstracted.

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I want to, I'll give a workshop and a keynote,

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but I'm not really interacting with people.

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And so that's kind of, we have plans for an empathy

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and tech conference in October.

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So we're starting to get that underway,

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but I'm really open right now.

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I think the big challenge with this

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is helping people recognize that there's a problem, right?

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We have amazing folks who have brought empathy

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to the forefront and like why it's important,

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but I think it's still very theoretical.

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I think that as a society,

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it's still positioned as a nice to have.

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It's something that is seen

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as an extracurricular investment for organizations.

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And to me, I think it's recognizing

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that if your people can't collaborate,

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that is one of the most important investments

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that you could possibly make in any organization,

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whether it's for-profit, nonprofit, whatever,

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if you have a group of people who are together for a purpose,

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the best investment you can make

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is helping them interact better

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so that they can achieve that goal.

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So just recognizing more,

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like tying the technical empathy

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to the effective collaboration

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and then the effective collaboration to the results.

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I think there's still a little bit that as a society,

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we haven't quite grasped that.

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So that's one of my challenges now

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is just helping people see the importance of this

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and that there is a solution

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and that there's new research that really backs up

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kind of new ways of understanding and working with empathy.

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How do leaders lean into funding the vision?

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I think this is something I struggle with.

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So I'll talk from personal experience.

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I almost feel like I come at it from,

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like rationally I know that resources

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are the way to help me scale my vision.

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It is exactly what I need to achieve that reality.

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For me, I think some of it comes from a,

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my relationship with money, personally,

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we're feeling like it is mutually exclusive

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for impact and money.

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That if I want to achieve my vision,

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like I have that idea,

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but I don't almost want it to be tainted

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by this idea of money.

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So I think that's part of it.

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It's almost this purity thing

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that if I keep it small and there is also a level

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of commitment to it, that when you launch a nonprofit,

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those are articles of incorporation.

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There's more administrative stuff.

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When you bring on a team,

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you're then responsible for paying their salaries

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and making sure that they're good.

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So there is other stuff that you have to do

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to really build your vision

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that doesn't feel like you're building your vision

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because you can get so caught into the infrastructure

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and the organizational stuff of it and the legal.

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There's just a lot of stuff,

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but being able to delegate, I think is really,

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really critical.

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So finding folks that you can build

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excellent relationships with,

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building that message where people want to support you.

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But yeah, and then how do you lean into funding your vision?

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I think that's a question I'm exploring right now myself.

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There's a lot of different models.

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There's membership sites where you sell access to content.

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There is thought leadership where you get on stage

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and you write.

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I think there are more quiet and less visible ways

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of funding your vision.

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I think I've described,

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like I sometimes do really well

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with what I call boardroom advocacy.

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So it's behind the scenes.

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It's not like super protesty or anything.

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It looks like I'm doing nothing,

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but I'm really good at kind of shepherding a vision

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and helping people who are at an organization,

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kind of re-examine their values and look together.

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So I've been successful with a number of boards

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in doing that.

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So some of it I think is just figuring out

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what's going to fuel you.

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And that's where I'm at this crossroads.

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It's like, I've loved writing, I love speaking,

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and now I'm kind of lonely.

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Like it's, the feedback loop is really long.

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I get people who send me messages on LinkedIn

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and like, oh my gosh, your talk changed my career.

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I saw you four years ago.

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And it's like, that's great.

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But you walk away from a keynote

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and you don't know if you made an impact.

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So I think what I'm exploring now is recognizing the need

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that I need faster feedbacks loops

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and I want to be more involved

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in kind of the day-to-day side of things

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and that that's what's gonna motivate me.

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But for a time it was traveling and doing amazing talks

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and getting to go to these cool places

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and meeting all these amazing people,

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but it shifts over time.

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So I think being really in tune with what fuels you

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because what fuels you is gonna fuel your vision

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and recognizing like, this is something I try.

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I struggle with my relationship with money, right?

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It's like, I just don't want to think about it.

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Thank you for being here today.

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I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.

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I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions

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as these episodes continue to move forward.

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This is gonna get more and more fun.

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We'll have more and more engagement as well.

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We'll invite people to participate in the show

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and thank you for giving us your time and attention.

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Have an excellent time building out your vision

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and becoming a Vision Pro yourself.