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Steve, where did this vision come from?

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Gosh, you know, probably from.

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You know, maybe the first job I ever had, which was a chore

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doing, you know, yard work and and I didn't like it.

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And it wasn't that I didn't like yard work.

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It's like I didn't like the situation.

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I didn't like doing it on my own.

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As I got older and actually got jobs,

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you know, talk, I worked at Taco Bell,

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you know, a cinema.

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I worked for Adventure 16 and REI.

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I came across great managers and I came across poor managers

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and and also great and poor owners of different companies.

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And and I always felt even though it took me till I was

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I don't know, mid 30s before I started the company

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that I wanted to run companies that I would be proud to be an employee.

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So I think a lot of my vision comes from soaking in

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the bad experiences I had with owners as like, here's what not to do

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and the good experiences with with owners and managers and other people.

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But here's what to do.

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And so as I as I've moved along, I've incorporated a lot of that stuff

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into how I run my own companies.

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For instance, one of my biggest influences

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is actually Stephen Sloan, who wrote the book Humane Leadership,

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and he's the founder Humane Leadership Institute.

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And he taught me a simple acronym MOCA,

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which is motivation, opportunity, clarity and ability.

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And it's not necessarily new.

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It's it's like a

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accountability and performance framework that first popped up in the 70s

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with some businesses that were sort of melding psychology

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and performance inside major corporations. Right.

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But, you know, I use my vision of being a good owner,

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a good manager, a good runner of companies very much includes

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talking to people with MOCA in mind.

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It's a very reciprocal kind of conversational framework.

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And I go way beyond I use it way beyond what Stephen Sloan

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envisioned it for and he envisioned it for, you know, the greater good.

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And it works really well as a way to talk to people.