1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,560 tell me about your vision. My vision is to train as many people as I can to know 2 00:00:06,560 --> 00:00:12,000 how to practice healthy boundaries because as a psychotherapist I've seen 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:17,680 so many people's lives wrecked because they're on this game board of life and 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:23,320 they don't know how to play. They don't understand the rules and when someone 5 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:28,680 explains how boundaries work then it's like the clouds part and the sun shines 6 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:34,280 down and they finally get it so they don't have to be manipulated by others. 7 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:39,620 They don't have to be tethered to other people's expectations. They can have the 8 00:00:39,620 --> 00:00:43,160 confidence to speak their thoughts and not be scared to have those hard 9 00:00:43,160 --> 00:00:48,360 conversations. It just it's very freeing and empowering and to be honest I don't 10 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:54,480 really see how anybody can live a full victorious life without knowing how to 11 00:00:54,480 --> 00:01:01,240 practice healthy boundaries. Can you tell me more about that? Sure. So if you think 12 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:05,480 about boundaries as being twofold, think of it in terms of yards. Like you have 13 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:10,760 your yard that you're responsible for. In your yard is what you think, what you 14 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:15,440 feel, and what you do. Those belong to you and you can change those things. 15 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,860 You're responsible for those things. What's not in your yard, what is on the 16 00:01:19,860 --> 00:01:24,080 other side of the fence, is what someone else thinks, what someone else feels, 17 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:29,440 and what someone else does. Too often what happens is people get those things 18 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:34,040 reversed. They do not take accountability for their own actions and thoughts and 19 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,760 feelings because they're embarrassed, they're ashamed, they feel guilty, and 20 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:42,920 they're tried they try to run from those things. And at the same time they are 21 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:48,640 uber focused on what their neighbors, meaning their friends, their family, their 22 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:53,680 co-workers, they're uber focused on what these other people are thinking about 23 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,720 them, what these other people are feeling, what these other people are doing. Like 24 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,320 if these other people are holding a grudge against them, they just think they 25 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,800 can't, you know, they can't deal with it. They take responsibility for that. They're 26 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:10,080 trying to manage someone else's anger. They won't have the hard conversations 27 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:14,080 because they're terrified of the other person's anger. They're trying to keep 28 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:20,520 the peace, right? That's impossible to keep someone else's peace because their 29 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:26,680 peace is technically in their brain, which we have no control over. So once 30 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:31,360 people go and they approach life knowing that they can have control over what's 31 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:36,840 in their own yard and they don't have to try to manage or accept responsibility 32 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:43,400 for someone else's feelings, it's amazingly liberating and empowering. 33 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:55,120 Amazing. How often do people that come across you that you're trying to 34 00:02:55,120 --> 00:03:04,520 coach or help have this realization that you are only responsible for your own 35 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:09,360 yard and not someone else's yard? It takes them a while. When they first come 36 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:14,240 into my office as one of my patients or one of my clients and they're telling 37 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,120 me, oh, these are my problems. This is everything that's going on in my life. 38 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,520 This is why I'm willing to spend my time and money and effort to come here to be 39 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:25,800 with you. The first thing I'm doing is I'm parsing out in my head how much of 40 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:30,240 what they're saying actually belongs to them and how much of what they're saying 41 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,320 is someone else's thoughts, feelings, or actions. That has got to be our first 42 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:39,120 step. Otherwise, we're wasting our time. We're wasting our time ignoring what we 43 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:44,160 do have control over and focusing on things that we do not. Frequently, 44 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:51,520 they'll realize that they are very timid and scared to have the hard 45 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:57,000 conversations, to do the things, to engage in life because of, well, someone else is 46 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,720 going to think this or that. I'm going to hurt somebody's feelings. I'm going to 47 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:05,400 make somebody mad. Well, technically, we can't even do that because they're hurt. 48 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:10,080 Their anger is in their brain, which we can't access. They're going to 49 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:15,200 decide how they're going to respond to us. That's not on us to navigate. 50 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:20,800 It's very ubiquitous. I see it almost every time I'm with a person once we 51 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:25,480 decide what's going on with them. It becomes pretty clear that boundaries is 52 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:33,000 an issue. Thank you for sharing that. Dana, where would you say that this vision, 53 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:41,320 where does this vision come from of helping people with boundaries? Two 54 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:47,040 places. One is personal and one is professional. The professional one I 55 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,080 shared because I kept noticing, I've been in private practice for over 16 years 56 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:57,000 and I didn't start out trying to notice it, but the more people came in and I 57 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:02,720 started really analyzing what the core issues that they had were, so many of 58 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,960 them were boundary related. I developed more and more of a passion for 59 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:11,000 trying to train people so they don't have to fall victim to manipulators and 60 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:17,720 narcissists and these kinds of things. The other core of my vision is personal 61 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:24,120 because my mother has several psychiatric issues that are rather 62 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:31,000 severe and these issues cause her to behave in ways that are very, very 63 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:36,400 narcissistic and manipulative and gaslighting. She would engage in 64 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:42,320 what I would call emotional extortion where she wanted certain things from me. 65 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,920 She wanted a lot of attention from me more than I could give her, more than I 66 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,760 should be able to have to give her. It was issues that she had before I ever 67 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:56,000 came along, but she was trying to play this out with me and the only way that I 68 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:02,480 could survive it was to figure out how to set healthy boundaries because she 69 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:09,120 would try to get me to give her a lot of attention. She would 70 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:14,000 want to be in front of my husband, in front of my children. She would want to 71 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:19,320 be my number one person. I told her one time, you know what, I think if I told you 72 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:23,400 that I was gonna leave my husband and kids and come move in your condo with 73 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,920 you and make you the number one center of my universe, you would say, okay well 74 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:33,000 when should I put that on my calendar? So it was very unhealthy what she expected 75 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:37,640 from me, but if I didn't do, if I didn't give her the attention that she wanted, 76 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:44,040 she would do things like call 911, get herself admitted to the hospital to try 77 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:50,040 to extort the emotion out of me and I have many of those stories. One, I'll just 78 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:56,400 share one. I had an emergency room doctor tell me to stop bringing her to the 79 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:03,560 emergency room because she was doing it to manipulate me. So you have medical 80 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:08,480 professionals that are recognizing what she's doing and telling me stop this, but 81 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,560 so she would drag this out in public to try to make me look really really 82 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:18,240 horrible and try to force me to give her this huge level of attention that was 83 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:22,200 far and beyond anything that would be considered healthy. So the only way that 84 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:29,520 I could navigate that was to develop healthy boundaries. 85 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:39,200 There's a story I feel coming. In the moment when you realized that that you 86 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:44,120 were getting emotionally extorted, please forgive me I'm very new to 87 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:49,680 this too, so getting used to this. How did you feel in the moment when you like 88 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:55,000 you figured it out like hey I'm getting manipulated right now and how did you 89 00:07:55,000 --> 00:08:00,520 get out of it at that point? In the moment because it happened numerous 90 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:08,440 times. In the moments usually I would get very frustrated to the point sometimes 91 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:14,520 of rage. I do not have problems communicating myself as you're probably 92 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:19,560 figuring this out. Plus being a psychotherapist I speak for a living, I 93 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,920 communicate with people for a living, I figure out how a person needs for me to 94 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:28,280 talk to them so I can meet them where they are. It didn't matter how I 95 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:32,320 communicated to my mother. She was just not going to hear me because I wasn't 96 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:36,400 saying what she wanted to hear. I mean I would do everything from try to talk 97 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:41,480 reasonably rationally, I would literally scream and none of it made any 98 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,920 difference. But I'm telling you there was one moment I realized I was screaming at 99 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:51,060 her. I was so full of rage of what she was doing that I felt trapped and I was 100 00:08:51,060 --> 00:08:57,080 screaming and I saw this look on her face that looked the only word I can use to 101 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:04,800 describe it is smug. She was when I was angry with her she was right in the dead 102 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:09,520 center, the bull's eye of my attention, which is where she wanted to be. And I 103 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:15,720 saw that look on her face and I'm like I'm not gonna do this anymore. So I 104 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:21,480 started to decide for myself what I was gonna do for her. I even went to my the 105 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,480 person who was a religious guide for me at the time, a spiritual guide for me at 106 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,640 the time, I went to him to get his suggestion and talk to wise people 107 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,640 around me because I recognized that sometimes when you're in the middle of 108 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,760 something you don't see clearly because you're sometimes ass over elbows and 109 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:41,680 your emotions. And so I would reach out to people around me that I trusted that 110 00:09:41,680 --> 00:09:48,780 I respected as wise counsel and the feedback I got was basically I could 111 00:09:48,780 --> 00:09:53,440 decide what I was going to do for her and then I could draw the line and that 112 00:09:53,440 --> 00:10:00,040 was my line to draw it was not her line to draw. And so when I figure that out it 113 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:05,320 was game-changing. Not that she liked it by the way and that's another reason why 114 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:10,480 I'm so good at what I do with training people with boundaries is because I know 115 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,840 what it feels like when you try to set a healthy boundary with someone that 116 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:20,920 doesn't like it. They respond back with fangs and claws and then they recruit 117 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:25,840 other people. They tell lies about you to other people and make you look terrible. 118 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,480 And so you when you set boundaries setting the boundaries just the first 119 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:35,200 step. Then you have to defend your boundary and then you have to know the 120 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,760 part of it is you have to know that other people might talk about you behind 121 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:42,400 your back they probably will. Other people are going to be calling you names. 122 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,680 I've been called all kinds of names. I literally had one relative of mine who 123 00:10:46,680 --> 00:10:51,840 was codependent with my mother bare her teeth at me. She was so mad she just 124 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,360 bare her teeth at me like she could have just clawed my face off if she if she 125 00:10:55,360 --> 00:11:00,600 could have got to me. So but when you're practicing healthy boundaries you 126 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:04,560 release people to have whatever feelings they need to have and you don't take it 127 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:08,040 personal. So it's just like okay feel what you want to feel. Hate me if you 128 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,760 want to hate me. Call me Satan if you want to call me Satan. Throw me in the 129 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:16,440 doghouse if you want to that's okay. I no longer care. I'm gonna do what I need to 130 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:21,560 do to be healthy for me and my family and then you learn your skin gets 131 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:28,560 thicker you get tougher and then you learn to let go of whatever these people 132 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:31,880 want to think about you because sometimes people get in that trap oh my 133 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:36,240 gosh they're gonna think I'm bad they're gonna think I'm a bitch. Well they might 134 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:49,240 they probably will and and what right you have to learn to just let that go. 135 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:54,920 I understand and in the moment it's super hard though right in the moment 136 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:59,200 you're feeling that agony you're feeling oh my gosh how can this person think 137 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:03,120 about me they won't even talk to me and they can not even do willing to hear my 138 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:08,600 side and that's in the moment it's the hardest thing to do and that. And that's 139 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,480 when you're when you're practicing healthy boundaries you know that you 140 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:18,000 know your story the you cannot control they probably don't want to hear your 141 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,200 side and they're gonna look at it they're gonna filter it anyway they're 142 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:26,360 gonna see it people generally see these things how they need to and so they're 143 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,520 going to view your story through a filter of how they want to hear it and 144 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:35,000 you can't change that and so when you have when you're practicing healthy 145 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,840 boundaries you release them you allow them to think whatever they want to 146 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:44,240 think about you you can state your truth and once you stated your truth you 147 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,880 stated it you're done and how they want to hear it if they want to hold a 148 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,840 grudge if they want to you know think kind of bad things about you they might 149 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:57,840 and you let them just okay think what you want. I feel like they might be an 150 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:02,840 other side to the story as well and you don't have to share this did your mom 151 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:10,240 ever come around but things ever got better is there a positive side to that? 152 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:20,000 For my personal story no I have talked to people that have been patients of 153 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:26,720 mine who did have better endings where their their significant person they were 154 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:31,600 dealing with was able to receive their new boundaries and they were able to 155 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,080 develop a healthier relationship they kind of pulled it out of that 156 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:39,840 codependency and they developed healthy relationships with one another in my 157 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:46,440 personal situation my mother was never going to change that was never going to 158 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:52,480 happen and the the more I tried to set healthy boundaries the the angrier she 159 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,720 became and the more she would blame me for her problems which narcissists do 160 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,960 narcissists do not accept responsibility for their own actions if if there's a 161 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:09,880 problem it's you you're the problem and so that was never that was never going 162 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:15,560 to change and I I couldn't change her all I could do was set my healthy 163 00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:20,760 boundaries and she could either become healthy and interact with me in a 164 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:25,480 healthy way because I gave healthy options but she wasn't going to do that. 165 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,040 Thank you for being here today I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision 166 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:33,440 Pros Live I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes 167 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,920 continue to move forward this is gonna get more and more fun we'll have more 168 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,400 more engagement as well we'll invite people to participate in the show and 169 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,920 thank you for giving us your time and attention have an excellent time 170 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:59,680 building out your vision and becoming a vision pro yourself.