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My wife and I and my daughter have a strong CrossFit community, and the neat thing about

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this church is my wife, very outgoing, we've had as many as nine of these young CrossFit

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20-something athletes join us at church.

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So it's just been a wonderful, wonderful thing.

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What church do y'all go to down there?

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We're at Community Bible Church.

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Okay.

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Oh, that's a good church.

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Yes, right there in Stone Oak.

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Yes, with Pastor Ed.

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Good for you.

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What a small, small world.

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I know.

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I love it.

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It's like I'm talking to a friend here.

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Yeah, well, you know, and there's such good, strong churches in San Antonio.

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My wife and I, God's got us in Austin right now, but there are times my wife particularly

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is tired of Austin.

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We love Texas.

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And if we left Austin, I think she'd be all right with that.

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I bet.

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And I used to think it was a transitional city for me, you know, coming from Denver,

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Colorado.

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I was like, oh, never been here before.

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And then I get there.

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And then five years passed.

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And then 10 years passed.

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And now I'm almost at 20.

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I'm like, what in the world just happened?

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All of a sudden, breakfast tacos are on the menu three days a week.

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I cannot get into breakfast tacos.

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Oh, they might send you back if they find that out.

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San Antonio is like the heart of breakfast tacos in the whole universe, I think.

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Yes, I'll go for a coffee and a banana nut bread.

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Tell me more about your vision with Nelly Leadership Group.

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Where did it come from?

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Neely.

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I'm sorry.

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Healing in prayer.

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Neely.

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Yeah, Neely Leadership Group.

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Well I think two paths, really.

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One, I became, my family's not a church family, but I became a follower of Jesus at a very

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young age.

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And I'm growing up with friends going to church with them.

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And I'm reading the Gospels and I'm seeing what a servant leader looks like.

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And then as I was 14, 15, 16, emerging into some of my first jobs, Javanka, I just had

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bad bosses.

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I had several bad bosses.

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And I'm looking at what this model of servant leadership is that I'm reading about in the

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Gospels.

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And then I'm working for people that had anger management issues and were putting themselves

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first and sarcastic and belittling.

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And I think that kind of awakened a passion in me around really stewardship of the influence

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you've been given.

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And it's never gone away.

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My dissertation studies were on what makes a good leader a good leader.

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I've written a couple of books in that area.

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And to the degree that I get to speak into people, you'll never be a better leader than

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you are a person.

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That's really what I'm passionate about.

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Along the way, I was able to speak enough and get up on enough stages that the National

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Speakers Association recognized me as a certified speaking professional, this elite group of

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speakers worldwide.

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And I've got 5 million frequent flyer miles from clients traveling me all over the world.

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And so it's really been you and me sharing faith.

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It's really been this unction, this call, this passion that, you know what, my place

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in the world is to help creation be a little bit better by making leaders recognize the

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sacred stewardship they have of the team they lead.

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And that's amazing.

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I was reading your website and I think the question states, so don't quote me, but have

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you ever had a bad boss?

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Oh my goodness.

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That nearly, I was like, yes, yes, speech to me.

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Yeah, exactly.

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So I had early on in my career, I had a boss who had anger management issues.

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And at one point it was a construction crew.

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We were going from job site to job site and in a Ford F-250 pickup truck.

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And I was sitting in the passenger seat working on the paper for the job as he's driving to

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the next job sites, wearing his head off.

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He grabbed the stapler out of my hand, opened it up and proceeded to whack my leg with an

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open stapler just because he was so angry and driving staples into my leg.

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And I'm like a 17 year old kid.

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I don't really know what's right and wrong yet, but I knew that was wrong.

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And I think, you know, whether it's physical violence, a stapler into your thigh or abusive

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language, you know, it's just, leaders have a sacred responsibility, whether they're spiritual

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or not, to lead their people well.

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And you know this, Javanka, because of your positions as well.

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Those of us that are in positions of leadership, we're at the bottom of the pyramid.

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We're not at the top of the pyramid.

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And so interesting enough, our corporations, do they actually call you and say, hey, there's

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like a need or is it an actual leader who's contacting you to say, hey, I want to learn

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more?

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How do they get and connect with you?

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Yeah.

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So it's basically organizations that ask me to come in and train.

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Most of the time I'm working with frontline managers, managers with one to seven years

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of experience who are leading their teams and they're struggling with employee turnover,

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call outs with customer service scores and aren't where they need to be.

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And the senior leadership knows it's a leadership issue and we're not quite sure how to solve

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it.

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So they say, can you come in and consult with us and help us figure out what's going on?

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And so it's typically senior leadership asking me to come in and work with their middle managers.

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I also do some executive coaching where I'll work primarily in the smaller business space

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where I'm working with CEOs or C-suite people.

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Recently I had an engagement where the CEO is asked me to help the COO elevate their

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abilities to eventually become CEO in a couple of years.

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So a couple of years.

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Awesome.

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That's a development for them to grow into their...

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Now I like that.

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I love that.

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I love it.

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Yeah.

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The scary thing is I've done this a couple of times now and the last time I was asked

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to come alongside a COO and help them grow, at the end of about six months, the COO, the

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CEO and I all looked at each other and said, he's not the right person.

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How do you move the notch from going over to that point and being able to make that decision

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or advise who has chosen to speak to you?

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Like, hey, what do we do here?

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Well, and I think...

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So that really brings us to one of the keys is leaders need to learn to have hard conversations.

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In fact, I will say one of the defining differences between somebody who's just a manager and

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somebody who's a leader, managers get the easy conversations, leaders get the hard conversations

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where how do I sit across the table at a coffee shop from you because you and I had to get

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out of the workplace and talk about X and how do I retain your dignity while I still

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let you know you're not meeting the mark?

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And you and I talked about profit, but I would say I suspect both of us work with nonprofits

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and ministry organizations.

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They still need to have those hard conversations because there's a mission of the organization

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that they're supposed to accomplish.

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I've worked for many years with a gal that is deeply involved with the Heart Association

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and out in California and she feels like her life is a series of hard conversations because

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people aren't performing and yet they have donors that are giving them money.

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They have healthcare institutions that are expecting them to come alongside and that

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tension of managers get the easy conversations, leaders get the hard conversations.

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Do you have like a diagram or something that you use?

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No, I mean, I have a little visual of those four leadership necessities.

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I probably should hire a VA to help me develop some type of diagram.

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I do have some resources and one of them that I make available to leaders is the best practices

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on how to hold a hard conversation and a little conversation planner.

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We can talk about that maybe toward the end of our time together and how people can access

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some of those resources.

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But it is interesting, Javanka, because I've owned and operated these swim schools now

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for 15 years.

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I've had an Ely leadership group for 25 or 28 years now, but it's always been a consulting

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and coaching and keynoting.

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Most of my work is workshops and coaching.

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I do a few keynotes, but mainly workshops inside companies.

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But as you said, now I've got 175 people that work for me on the other half of my business

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and I've got a management team of seven managers that I'm having those very same hard conversations

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that then you and I are telling our client, here's how to have a hard conversation and

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yet you're going to make some mistakes.

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Javanka, I remember the early on in my career, one of my first management positions, I had

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a salesperson and she was a very good salesperson, a top performing client facing salesperson.

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But she had anger management issues.

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Her home life was a little out of control, which meant her on time performance was challenged.

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At one point, she just blew off a really important trade show that we all were doing booth duty

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at.

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My boss told me to fire her.

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I fought for her job because I knew she was a good performer.

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Then I had a heart for her.

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I knew she had a young one at home.

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She didn't have any other support.

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I tried to support her.

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I called her in to have a hard conversation with her and she quit at my desk that day

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and swearing at me, swearing at the company, stomped out.

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I had to go out and talk to the rest of my sales team shortly after that.

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It was our Monday morning weekly huddle.

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Here's the lesson I learned.

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She stomped out.

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By the way, there was no good solution.

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She didn't just quit our company.

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She went to work for a competitor and took business from us.

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But here's the lesson I learned that day, that Monday when I finally got my courage

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enough up to walk out into the bullpen where my team was sitting that she had just stomped

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through a few minutes before.

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Before I could say anything, one of my other salespeople said, well, it took you long enough.

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I thought I had fired her because they all knew she needed to go.

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I was the one that was not having the hard conversations.

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They all thought I finally manned up.

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Only later did it come out that no, I still had tried to wimp out, but she could quit

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on us.

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Well, that was a lesson for me.

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In fact, her name was Gwen.

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I call it the Gwen Axiom.

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This timelessly true principle.

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Just because someone is hurt doesn't mean they're right.

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And I was trying to address her hurt without really doing the right thing for the rest

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of my team.

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They knew that I was being played.

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That's major too, to try to balance that out.

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But that's what makes you good at what you're doing right now is for the simple fact that

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so many people can get the things that you didn't do so well back then and actually take

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that piece.

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Yeah.

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Yes.

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And it's not often that leaders such as yourself can give that back.

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And after 25 years, there's a lot of different leaders now.

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These leaders are 25 and 20 without experience.

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So I'm amazed sometimes in whom that I may go somewhere and I'm like, hey, can I speak

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with a manager?

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And they're younger than me.

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I know.

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And the conversation is so flipped in my mind, respectfully, I'm saying, I think I could

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do your job better than you.

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However, I have to respect your position, but I also have a choice to stay or leave.

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Yeah.

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Exactly right.

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Well, and I think the last four years really have been like 10 or 15 years culturally in

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our country and been so many good truths that have been brought back to the forefront.

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We're all having to be more honest about things.

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I also think though, at times there's this kind of empathetic leader that goes too far

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where it's, was it a year and a half ago, the crying CEO on LinkedIn who had to lay

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people off and was in tears over that.

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I don't know the whole backstory, but I would say, you know what?

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One of the jobs of a leader is to protect their enterprise.

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And if that means you've got to lay some people off, you're doing the leadership thing.

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And so I think we come and go and, you know, in the swim school world I live in, there's

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a movement right now called gentle parenting where you just don't push the kid at all out

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of their comfort zone.

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Well, I will tell you 90% of two-year-olds don't like to have their face put underwater.

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But if you get them safe in the water, we have to be a submersion school.

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And sometimes leaders have to do things that people aren't thrilled with.

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And that's where, man, it's just a, it's a hard job.

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Who would want to be a leader?

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You know, you never know what you can take and what you can do.

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And unless you're pushed to that level and being pushed to that level, whether it be

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a child or an adult, it's a necessary growth need in order to take that step forward.

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So I can, I totally understand what you're saying and to be kind of your time at our

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28 minutes.

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I want to just thank you so much for choosing to be here and choosing to have this discussion.

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I swear every time I come out here, it's like I'm talking to a friend.

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You know, it's, I get the, I get the benefit of being able to hear visions and, and you're,

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although you are the professional in this, I tell you, I learn every day and I appreciate

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the, you know, the, the nuggets and the tools that you're giving me, regardless of, you

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know, where I'm at and what I'm doing, I can, I'm, I'm going to always want to learn.

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And so for anybody that is watching this, I think that, you know, they'll, they'll have

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a need and an understanding of what, you know, your business is all about because it's not,

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it's not just the, the hunky dory easy coaching and, and, you know, and not to say anything

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about coaching, but I don't think you have an easy job.

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Yeah.

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You, you know, you, you sort of get them to grow and go, but you still have some fine

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tuning and after 25 years, the world is changing.

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The world is changing so much.

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And yes, and I thank you so much.

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You bet.

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Well, it's been my pleasure.

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The one resource I do want to make available to your folks, if, if they want to learn more

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about how to hold hard conversations, I've got a little ebook, the three imperative leadership

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conversations, a coaching conversation, a hard conversation in the threefold affirmation

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conversation.

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It's available at leadershipmaterials.com, simply leadershipmaterials.com.

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And then you and I owe each other a breakfast taco breakfast in San Antonio to try to win

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you over 20 year Texan.

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Thank you for being here today.

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I'm really happy that you tuned into Vision Pros Live.

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I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward.

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This is going to get more and more fun.

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We'll have more and more engagement as well.

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We'll invite people to participate in the show and thank you for giving us your time

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and attention.

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I hope you have an excellent time building out your vision and becoming a Vision Pro

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on your own.