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Tell me about your vision.

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My vision?

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You know, for me, I think

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I have a unique space that I work in, which is consumer psychology.

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My background is in psychology, but doctorate in clinical psychology,

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but I realized I didn't love being a therapist.

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And I had to figure out some other options.

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And I led my first focus group, boy, 30 years ago,

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and fell in love with that process.

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And so I love psychology, and I love in particular understanding

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how people make decisions, what makes them tick,

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what are the motivations that drive even some of the most mundane types of decisions.

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So what type of laundry do I buy?

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Well, that seems like such a boring subject, but when you really dig deep,

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you find there's a lot of influences and factors under the surface

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that influence why people choose the things they do.

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And so I charted a course.

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At the time, there were no working consumer psychologists.

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Most of them, any that existed were primarily professors.

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And so I really blazed a trail there, but my vision is

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using marketing, advertising, sales for good,

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because I think that we have the opportunity to make people's lives easier,

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make them more enjoyable, make decisions easier,

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make shopping, making choices, more informed, more confident.

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And I think using what I do as a force for that is something that I feel very strongly about.

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Thank you for sharing that, Chris.

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So tell me more about that.

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Tell me more how psychology and marketing come into play.

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Yeah, well, you know, there's a lot of psychology in marketing,

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because we do want to understand what is going to resonate with people.

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And for me, I think one of the things that I really feel passionate about is the power of empathy in marketing,

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in life in general, but in marketing.

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And helping people to develop their sense of empathy.

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We talk a lot about insights and doing research and developing insights into people.

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I really encourage the people that I work with, my clients and people, my colleagues,

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to think about it as developing empathy rather than simply insight,

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because I think that the ability to see and experience through someone else's eyes

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is a really powerful way of helping, you know, understanding what's frustrating for them,

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understanding what solutions, what needs they would like,

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what they're trying to accomplish in their lives, the aspirations they have,

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and then using marketing as a way of not convincing people just to buy something once,

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but by forming a relationship with them where they know and trust

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that you're looking out for ways to make their lives better.

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And so I really...

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My eye ticks a lot when I hear people talking about psychology tricks in marketing

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and that sort of thing, because you can...

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One of the biggest questions I get all the time is, oh, consumer psychology.

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So you trick people into buying stuff they don't need.

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And I used to be irritated with that question, but I actually love that question now,

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because it gives me a way to talk about the power of marketing, the power of empathy.

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You know, as marketers, we are sophisticated enough.

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We have the tools, you know, we have the technology.

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We can get anyone to buy something once.

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But that's not really smart strategy.

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You know, think about yourself.

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You know, you buy something and you feel like you've been duped

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or you feel like you've been manipulated.

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Usually people's first reaction is resistance.

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And if that continues, then it can go into anger, frustration,

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and then ultimately, it can lead to avoidance.

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You know, we don't... People don't like feeling like they're manipulated.

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People want to feel like they have agency in their lives.

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They're making decisions that are best for them.

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And when they feel like they've been manipulated,

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that can have really damaging effects on relationship with the brand

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and openness to a brand, willingness to listen,

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to be willing, you know, to take advice, those types of things.

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And so I really feel strongly that when we put ourselves in the audience's shoes,

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our target market shoes, what we're doing is seeking ways to understand them

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on their terms and then develop ideas, solutions, innovations that work for them.

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And I think when you do that consistently, you develop trust.

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And that's really golden for any brand or product.

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Thank you for sharing that, Chris.

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That goes to my next question. What is your why behind what you do?

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Again, it comes back to using marketing for good.

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I think there's tremendous potential in it and helping people, again,

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to make choices in an informed, empowered manner

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versus feeling like they're being manipulated or lied to.

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And so working with marketing teams, sales teams,

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it is about helping them not only to do that,

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but do it in a way that's even more effective than traditionally the way

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we think about sales and marketing, in particular sales.

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I mean, sales kind of has a negative connotation to it because over the years,

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you know, people have had bad experiences with salespeople,

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you know, the kind of your typical sort of used car salesmen, if you will,

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and feeling like, you know, you're being manipulated.

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And I think that that's damaging, and especially in today's times,

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like we have access to more information now than ever before.

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And so those kinds of manipulations, those kinds of like being deceptive,

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they usually get found out and that can have some really negative effects.

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So for me, you know, my why is to help sales and marketing teams

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approach sales in a way that's not only empathetic and understanding,

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but also even more effective for them.

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So it's creating wins for everyone, buyer and seller alike.

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I can actually relate to that, Chris.

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A while back, I was part of a solar selling team.

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And then I switched companies multiple times to figure out what the heck is going on.

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And each time, people would go make a bunch of money.

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Sometimes customers would get taken care of, sometimes they won't.

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And they would get taught these techniques to either manipulate people

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or even for their own good sometimes.

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But no one was thinking about a repetitive way of getting more and more customers.

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So I can relate to that.

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Yeah, yeah, I think it's I talk about, you know, one of the things that I like to really hone in on

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is this idea of resilient relationships and building resilient relationships with your customers.

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And it comes back to what I was talking about is that if your customer trusts

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that you are going to be upfront with them, you're going to be authentic and honest,

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you're going to be looking for real solutions that will make a difference in their lives,

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and you do that consistently, you start to develop what I call a resilient relationship.

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And what that means is there is a trust, there is a certain amount of loyalty,

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although I'm not big on the term loyalty when it comes to marketing.

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I think it just is a very passive way of thinking about people.

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Resilient relationships, when you develop them,

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you have the ability to engage over time with your consumer.

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And when something goes wrong, we all make mistakes.

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People always make mistakes. Brands are no different and companies are no different.

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They're going to make mistakes.

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If you've formed a resilient relationship with your consumer,

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they're going to give you the benefit of the doubt.

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I'm an Apple guy, have been for a very long time, I have always Mac, always iPhone,

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and Apple has made some missteps along the way.

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But because I trust them and I trust them to do the right thing and I trust their products,

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I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

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I'm not going to go running to a competitor the first time they make a mistake

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or do something that I don't like.

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I think there's real power in that.

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It can lead to very big sales and very big loyalty over time.

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The benefits of having long-term customers is a very tangible thing for companies.

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Any relationship means that you have to tend to that relationship

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and be a good steward of that relationship with your customer.

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That means being upfront, being authentic, admitting mistakes, making those mistakes right.

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When you do that consistently, that's where you develop that kind of following

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that will be there for you through thick and thin.

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Going along with what you said, including many examples of Apple,

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I am the same way with Apple.

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I love Apple quite a bit and yes, they have made a few mistakes.

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But there's something about Apple that you just want to be with Apple for now.

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It's interesting because there's real tangible reasons for that or real functional reasons.

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They make great technology, they make it user-friendly, they've empowered so many people.

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But then there's also the emotional side of it.

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There's trust, there's almost a sense of belonging.

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There's a great quote, I wish I had come up with it, but I didn't.

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I cannot remember off the top of my head who said it, but they said,

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people join brands, they don't buy them.

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I think that's a really smart way to think about it.

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Why would someone want to join my brand?

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When you think of it that way, then you're going to be putting yourself in their shoes

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and saying, okay, well, why would this person want to join?

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What can I do to make them want to join?

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And that puts you in a very customer-centric mindset that can be very powerful.

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We're running out of time, but I want to ask this question before we enter this segment.

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Why do leaders hide from funding their vision?

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Well, I think there's probably a number of reasons.

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I mean, one is if you have a vision, it's usually something that is born as something very personal.

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And so there can be a lot of risk in putting it out there.

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And so part of that may just simply be, you know, fearing repercussions or fearing judgment.

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We certainly know, you know, in business that it can be pretty cutthroat sometimes.

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And so that could be challenging.

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I think, too, there's often an idea that from a funding standpoint,

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funding a big vision is a big risk because what if it doesn't work out?

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What if we don't get the return on that investment?

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But what I would say to that is if you have a vision and you put time and effort into it,

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you're either going to have a big win and promote that idea and that vision.

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It's going to be out there in the world and have an influence.

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Or you're going to learn some really valuable lessons that will help you the next time.

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And so, you know, I think that so often and certainly in my experience,

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I've been in companies before where I've worked with companies before where

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the times when I find people being hesitant to talk about their vision,

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being hesitant to talk about taking a risk.

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And I think that in cultures where, you know, company cultures,

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where it is encouraged to go try things and if you fail, we don't just walk away from it.

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We learn from it. What did we learn from this situation?

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And I think, too, like when you have a big vision,

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like some of the biggest visionaries I've ever worked for,

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they put out that big vision and we work towards it.

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And even if we don't nail the vision perfectly,

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it has moved us forward in such a way that wouldn't have happened otherwise.

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And I find that really inspiring because, you know, it's a risk.

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And if you can rally people around that vision,

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you're going to move people in a direction that's positive,

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that's going to have an impact above and beyond where you would have been if you didn't.

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And so, you know, I think that there's a lot of fear and a lot of risk in sharing a vision,

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particularly in certain company cultures.

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But I feel like in the right, with the right support,

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in the right perspective of how do we think about failure?

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How do we think about learning?

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We really should be encouraging people to do that.

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Thank you for being here today.

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I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.

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I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward.

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This is going to get more and more fun.

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We'll have more and more engagement as well.

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We'll invite people to participate in the show.

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And thank you for giving us your time and attention.

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I hope you have an excellent time building out your vision and becoming a Vision Pro yourself.