Tell me about your vision.
My vision?
You know, for me, I think
I have a unique space that I work in, which is consumer psychology.
My background is in psychology, but doctorate in clinical psychology,
but I realized I didn't love being a therapist.
And I had to figure out some other options.
And I led my first focus group, boy, 30 years ago,
and fell in love with that process.
And so I love psychology, and I love in particular understanding
how people make decisions, what makes them tick,
what are the motivations that drive even some of the most mundane types of decisions.
So what type of laundry do I buy?
Well, that seems like such a boring subject, but when you really dig deep,
you find there's a lot of influences and factors under the surface
that influence why people choose the things they do.
And so I charted a course.
At the time, there were no working consumer psychologists.
Most of them, any that existed were primarily professors.
And so I really blazed a trail there, but my vision is
using marketing, advertising, sales for good,
because I think that we have the opportunity to make people's lives easier,
make them more enjoyable, make decisions easier,
make shopping, making choices, more informed, more confident.
And I think using what I do as a force for that is something that I feel very strongly about.
Thank you for sharing that, Chris.
So tell me more about that.
Tell me more how psychology and marketing come into play.
Yeah, well, you know, there's a lot of psychology in marketing,
because we do want to understand what is going to resonate with people.
And for me, I think one of the things that I really feel passionate about is the power of empathy in marketing,
in life in general, but in marketing.
And helping people to develop their sense of empathy.
We talk a lot about insights and doing research and developing insights into people.
I really encourage the people that I work with, my clients and people, my colleagues,
to think about it as developing empathy rather than simply insight,
because I think that the ability to see and experience through someone else's eyes
is a really powerful way of helping, you know, understanding what's frustrating for them,
understanding what solutions, what needs they would like,
what they're trying to accomplish in their lives, the aspirations they have,
and then using marketing as a way of not convincing people just to buy something once,
but by forming a relationship with them where they know and trust
that you're looking out for ways to make their lives better.
And so I really...
My eye ticks a lot when I hear people talking about psychology tricks in marketing
and that sort of thing, because you can...
One of the biggest questions I get all the time is, oh, consumer psychology.
So you trick people into buying stuff they don't need.
And I used to be irritated with that question, but I actually love that question now,
because it gives me a way to talk about the power of marketing, the power of empathy.
You know, as marketers, we are sophisticated enough.
We have the tools, you know, we have the technology.
We can get anyone to buy something once.
But that's not really smart strategy.
You know, think about yourself.
You know, you buy something and you feel like you've been duped
or you feel like you've been manipulated.
Usually people's first reaction is resistance.
And if that continues, then it can go into anger, frustration,
and then ultimately, it can lead to avoidance.
You know, we don't... People don't like feeling like they're manipulated.
People want to feel like they have agency in their lives.
They're making decisions that are best for them.
And when they feel like they've been manipulated,
that can have really damaging effects on relationship with the brand
and openness to a brand, willingness to listen,
to be willing, you know, to take advice, those types of things.
And so I really feel strongly that when we put ourselves in the audience's shoes,
our target market shoes, what we're doing is seeking ways to understand them
on their terms and then develop ideas, solutions, innovations that work for them.
And I think when you do that consistently, you develop trust.
And that's really golden for any brand or product.
Thank you for sharing that, Chris.
That goes to my next question. What is your why behind what you do?
Again, it comes back to using marketing for good.
I think there's tremendous potential in it and helping people, again,
to make choices in an informed, empowered manner
versus feeling like they're being manipulated or lied to.
And so working with marketing teams, sales teams,
it is about helping them not only to do that,
but do it in a way that's even more effective than traditionally the way
we think about sales and marketing, in particular sales.
I mean, sales kind of has a negative connotation to it because over the years,
you know, people have had bad experiences with salespeople,
you know, the kind of your typical sort of used car salesmen, if you will,
and feeling like, you know, you're being manipulated.
And I think that that's damaging, and especially in today's times,
like we have access to more information now than ever before.
And so those kinds of manipulations, those kinds of like being deceptive,
they usually get found out and that can have some really negative effects.
So for me, you know, my why is to help sales and marketing teams
approach sales in a way that's not only empathetic and understanding,
but also even more effective for them.
So it's creating wins for everyone, buyer and seller alike.
I can actually relate to that, Chris.
A while back, I was part of a solar selling team.
And then I switched companies multiple times to figure out what the heck is going on.
And each time, people would go make a bunch of money.
Sometimes customers would get taken care of, sometimes they won't.
And they would get taught these techniques to either manipulate people
or even for their own good sometimes.
But no one was thinking about a repetitive way of getting more and more customers.
So I can relate to that.
Yeah, yeah, I think it's I talk about, you know, one of the things that I like to really hone in on
is this idea of resilient relationships and building resilient relationships with your customers.
And it comes back to what I was talking about is that if your customer trusts
that you are going to be upfront with them, you're going to be authentic and honest,
you're going to be looking for real solutions that will make a difference in their lives,
and you do that consistently, you start to develop what I call a resilient relationship.
And what that means is there is a trust, there is a certain amount of loyalty,
although I'm not big on the term loyalty when it comes to marketing.
I think it just is a very passive way of thinking about people.
Resilient relationships, when you develop them,
you have the ability to engage over time with your consumer.
And when something goes wrong, we all make mistakes.
People always make mistakes. Brands are no different and companies are no different.
They're going to make mistakes.
If you've formed a resilient relationship with your consumer,
they're going to give you the benefit of the doubt.
I'm an Apple guy, have been for a very long time, I have always Mac, always iPhone,
and Apple has made some missteps along the way.
But because I trust them and I trust them to do the right thing and I trust their products,
I will give them the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not going to go running to a competitor the first time they make a mistake
or do something that I don't like.
I think there's real power in that.
It can lead to very big sales and very big loyalty over time.
The benefits of having long-term customers is a very tangible thing for companies.
Any relationship means that you have to tend to that relationship
and be a good steward of that relationship with your customer.
That means being upfront, being authentic, admitting mistakes, making those mistakes right.
When you do that consistently, that's where you develop that kind of following
that will be there for you through thick and thin.
Going along with what you said, including many examples of Apple,
I am the same way with Apple.
I love Apple quite a bit and yes, they have made a few mistakes.
But there's something about Apple that you just want to be with Apple for now.
It's interesting because there's real tangible reasons for that or real functional reasons.
They make great technology, they make it user-friendly, they've empowered so many people.
But then there's also the emotional side of it.
There's trust, there's almost a sense of belonging.
There's a great quote, I wish I had come up with it, but I didn't.
I cannot remember off the top of my head who said it, but they said,
people join brands, they don't buy them.
I think that's a really smart way to think about it.
Why would someone want to join my brand?
When you think of it that way, then you're going to be putting yourself in their shoes
and saying, okay, well, why would this person want to join?
What can I do to make them want to join?
And that puts you in a very customer-centric mindset that can be very powerful.
We're running out of time, but I want to ask this question before we enter this segment.
Why do leaders hide from funding their vision?
Well, I think there's probably a number of reasons.
I mean, one is if you have a vision, it's usually something that is born as something very personal.
And so there can be a lot of risk in putting it out there.
And so part of that may just simply be, you know, fearing repercussions or fearing judgment.
We certainly know, you know, in business that it can be pretty cutthroat sometimes.
And so that could be challenging.
I think, too, there's often an idea that from a funding standpoint,
funding a big vision is a big risk because what if it doesn't work out?
What if we don't get the return on that investment?
But what I would say to that is if you have a vision and you put time and effort into it,
you're either going to have a big win and promote that idea and that vision.
It's going to be out there in the world and have an influence.
Or you're going to learn some really valuable lessons that will help you the next time.
And so, you know, I think that so often and certainly in my experience,
I've been in companies before where I've worked with companies before where
the times when I find people being hesitant to talk about their vision,
being hesitant to talk about taking a risk.
And I think that in cultures where, you know, company cultures,
where it is encouraged to go try things and if you fail, we don't just walk away from it.
We learn from it. What did we learn from this situation?
And I think, too, like when you have a big vision,
like some of the biggest visionaries I've ever worked for,
they put out that big vision and we work towards it.
And even if we don't nail the vision perfectly,
it has moved us forward in such a way that wouldn't have happened otherwise.
And I find that really inspiring because, you know, it's a risk.
And if you can rally people around that vision,
you're going to move people in a direction that's positive,
that's going to have an impact above and beyond where you would have been if you didn't.
And so, you know, I think that there's a lot of fear and a lot of risk in sharing a vision,
particularly in certain company cultures.
But I feel like in the right, with the right support,
in the right perspective of how do we think about failure?
How do we think about learning?
We really should be encouraging people to do that.
Thank you for being here today.
I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward.
This is going to get more and more fun.
We'll have more and more engagement as well.
We'll invite people to participate in the show.
And thank you for giving us your time and attention.
I hope you have an excellent time building out your vision and becoming a Vision Pro yourself.