So Shaina, tell me about your vision. Okay. My vision is about empowering us all to better
understand what actual relationship is. Because I think for me growing up in the way that I did,
no one showed me or told me, this is how you show up in healthy, ethical relationship. This is what
you bring to the table. This is what you should expect. Right? And when I left those environments
in my mid-twenties, I really became passionate about wanting to create powerful change in the
world. But I realized in order to do that, I had to be healthy first. Right? And then that kind of
became my passion is how do we actually understand relationship? How do we show up that way? Because
relationship affects everything. Our understanding of relationship affects everything. It affects
how we connect to ourselves, to our family, to the world around us. It affects how we see our impact
and understand our impact on the world around us. It affects how we show up as leaders and the growth
of our organization. It impacts innovation because I posit that innovation is just a reimagining of
relationship. Right? So it's deeply embedded in every aspect of our lives as human beings.
And so I think it's really deeply important for us to have the language to describe it so that then
we can embody it. Wow. Very powerful. Yeah. I can definitely relate because I come, my family
was very dysfunctioning as a family when I grew up. I can understand where your vision is coming
from and where you're going with it. If I were to ask you, where did this vision come from? Is that
something similar, something else? Well, I can go into it a little bit deeper. I was born into an
abusive household and raised inside of an evangelical Christian cult. And because of that,
right, that is the reason why I had no healthy understanding of relationship because in those
coercive controlling environments, no one wants you to know what healthy relationship is because
then you would hold them accountable to show up that way. So it's to their benefit for you to not
know and for you to assume that relationship is proximity, that those who are in proximity to you,
you're in relationship with, and those who are in proximity to you, as long as they are maintaining
that proximity, that's a relationship. Well, that's not true. Right? And we can look at examples like
something simple, like when you hear a couple that got divorced and they never really fought,
there didn't seem to be a lot of animosity, but one of them just says, like, it just got to the
place where we eventually felt like roommates. They were in proximity. They were living in the
same household, and yet there was no relationship happening. There was no curiosity, respect, and
accountability, which is what I posit that all ethical relationship requires. And so it came from
this deep desire to understand how to be a healthy part of the world and to understand how to be a
healthy leader, an ethical leader, somebody who could create powerful change in the world from a
place that empowered others rather than exploited others in the way that I had seen.
You mentioned, and this is not the direction I want to go into, I just want to, you said you're
part of an evangelical Christian cult. The reason I ask that is most people don't know this about me.
I'm actually from India, born and raised. I converted to Christianity when I was 18 and moved
to the United States right after that, like probably a year after that. But I got baptized
when I was 16. And I belong, the church I got baptized into is mostly commonly known as the
Mormon Church, or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And I, just for the sake of
protecting people, why did you mention the evangelical Christian cult? Is that a different
thing from evangelical stuff? And I don't want to go into that just for protection's sake.
Yeah, I phrase it that way because anytime that a religion or any group of people,
because we work, became a cult, right? There's all kinds of, any kind of organization, any community
of people can come together and become culty or become a cult. Anytime that accountability
is removed from us, but specifically from those in positions of authority, the relationship has
become unethical and exploitation and or abuse is absolutely present. That moment, the moment
that accountability, because I define accountability as taking responsibility for the impact of our
actions on the people and the lives that happen and our lives, and our lives, and our lives,
impact of our actions on the people and the lives that happen and are being impacted.
The minute that we stop taking accountability for the impact of our actions
is the moment that we have normalized harming someone else. And so that's where we dip into
it no longer being something that is positive and life-affirming for people and to something
that is absolutely knowingly causing harm. That is powerful. Thank you, Pashrena.
Yeah. Thanks for asking.
My next question for you, Shayna, is what is your goal for being on the show?
That's a good question. My goal for being on the show is to have this conversation. One of my
favorite things about being a podcast guest is the way it challenges my perspectives, my point of view,
because I get to have these conversations with people like yourself. And I get to understand
how people interpret my work. I get to share my work with a broad audience of people. I get to
develop relationships with people like yourself and help, you know, there's this reciprocity there,
right? Like I'm showing up on your show and I'm sharing my expertise with your audience, but also
then I'm able to share this conversation with my audience and help promote your show, right?
And so it's a way of like forming kind of very distant community, right? We don't get to spend
time together all the time, but there's this moment in time when we're in this beautifully
encapsulated energy exchange, right? And I get to see my work through your eyes, right? Which helps
me to broaden my perspectives and challenge my perspectives and let me know where maybe I need
to do some more work or some more research because I insist on staying in the world as a curious
person. It's why I call myself a scholar of intentional and ethical leadership in living
and not a leadership expert. It's because oftentimes when we put ourselves in a position
of expertise, of an expert, we insulate ourselves from that which challenges our points of view,
right? And so this is part of my practice in continually challenging myself and also being
able to share what I'm passionate about in my vision with the world around me and see,
does this resonate with you? Does this impact you, right? Because I think it does. I'm almost
certain that it does, but I also want to make sure that I'm continually gathering more information.
Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward.
This is going to get more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement as well. We'll invite
people to participate in the show and thank you for giving us your time and attention.
Have an excellent time building out your vision and becoming a Vision Pro yourself.