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So Shaina, tell me about your vision. Okay. My vision is about empowering us all to better

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understand what actual relationship is. Because I think for me growing up in the way that I did,

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no one showed me or told me, this is how you show up in healthy, ethical relationship. This is what

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you bring to the table. This is what you should expect. Right? And when I left those environments

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in my mid-twenties, I really became passionate about wanting to create powerful change in the

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world. But I realized in order to do that, I had to be healthy first. Right? And then that kind of

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became my passion is how do we actually understand relationship? How do we show up that way? Because

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relationship affects everything. Our understanding of relationship affects everything. It affects

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how we connect to ourselves, to our family, to the world around us. It affects how we see our impact

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and understand our impact on the world around us. It affects how we show up as leaders and the growth

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of our organization. It impacts innovation because I posit that innovation is just a reimagining of

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relationship. Right? So it's deeply embedded in every aspect of our lives as human beings.

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And so I think it's really deeply important for us to have the language to describe it so that then

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we can embody it. Wow. Very powerful. Yeah. I can definitely relate because I come, my family

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was very dysfunctioning as a family when I grew up. I can understand where your vision is coming

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from and where you're going with it. If I were to ask you, where did this vision come from? Is that

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something similar, something else? Well, I can go into it a little bit deeper. I was born into an

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abusive household and raised inside of an evangelical Christian cult. And because of that,

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right, that is the reason why I had no healthy understanding of relationship because in those

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coercive controlling environments, no one wants you to know what healthy relationship is because

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then you would hold them accountable to show up that way. So it's to their benefit for you to not

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know and for you to assume that relationship is proximity, that those who are in proximity to you,

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you're in relationship with, and those who are in proximity to you, as long as they are maintaining

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that proximity, that's a relationship. Well, that's not true. Right? And we can look at examples like

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something simple, like when you hear a couple that got divorced and they never really fought,

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there didn't seem to be a lot of animosity, but one of them just says, like, it just got to the

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place where we eventually felt like roommates. They were in proximity. They were living in the

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same household, and yet there was no relationship happening. There was no curiosity, respect, and

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accountability, which is what I posit that all ethical relationship requires. And so it came from

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this deep desire to understand how to be a healthy part of the world and to understand how to be a

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healthy leader, an ethical leader, somebody who could create powerful change in the world from a

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place that empowered others rather than exploited others in the way that I had seen.

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You mentioned, and this is not the direction I want to go into, I just want to, you said you're

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part of an evangelical Christian cult. The reason I ask that is most people don't know this about me.

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I'm actually from India, born and raised. I converted to Christianity when I was 18 and moved

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to the United States right after that, like probably a year after that. But I got baptized

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when I was 16. And I belong, the church I got baptized into is mostly commonly known as the

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Mormon Church, or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And I, just for the sake of

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protecting people, why did you mention the evangelical Christian cult? Is that a different

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thing from evangelical stuff? And I don't want to go into that just for protection's sake.

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Yeah, I phrase it that way because anytime that a religion or any group of people,

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because we work, became a cult, right? There's all kinds of, any kind of organization, any community

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of people can come together and become culty or become a cult. Anytime that accountability

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is removed from us, but specifically from those in positions of authority, the relationship has

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become unethical and exploitation and or abuse is absolutely present. That moment, the moment

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that accountability, because I define accountability as taking responsibility for the impact of our

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actions on the people and the lives that happen and our lives, and our lives, and our lives,

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impact of our actions on the people and the lives that happen and are being impacted.

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The minute that we stop taking accountability for the impact of our actions

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is the moment that we have normalized harming someone else. And so that's where we dip into

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it no longer being something that is positive and life-affirming for people and to something

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that is absolutely knowingly causing harm. That is powerful. Thank you, Pashrena.

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Yeah. Thanks for asking.

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My next question for you, Shayna, is what is your goal for being on the show?

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That's a good question. My goal for being on the show is to have this conversation. One of my

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favorite things about being a podcast guest is the way it challenges my perspectives, my point of view,

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because I get to have these conversations with people like yourself. And I get to understand

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how people interpret my work. I get to share my work with a broad audience of people. I get to

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develop relationships with people like yourself and help, you know, there's this reciprocity there,

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right? Like I'm showing up on your show and I'm sharing my expertise with your audience, but also

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then I'm able to share this conversation with my audience and help promote your show, right?

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And so it's a way of like forming kind of very distant community, right? We don't get to spend

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time together all the time, but there's this moment in time when we're in this beautifully

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encapsulated energy exchange, right? And I get to see my work through your eyes, right? Which helps

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me to broaden my perspectives and challenge my perspectives and let me know where maybe I need

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to do some more work or some more research because I insist on staying in the world as a curious

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person. It's why I call myself a scholar of intentional and ethical leadership in living

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and not a leadership expert. It's because oftentimes when we put ourselves in a position

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of expertise, of an expert, we insulate ourselves from that which challenges our points of view,

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right? And so this is part of my practice in continually challenging myself and also being

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able to share what I'm passionate about in my vision with the world around me and see,

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does this resonate with you? Does this impact you, right? Because I think it does. I'm almost

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certain that it does, but I also want to make sure that I'm continually gathering more information.

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Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.

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I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward.

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This is going to get more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement as well. We'll invite

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people to participate in the show and thank you for giving us your time and attention.

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Have an excellent time building out your vision and becoming a Vision Pro yourself.