1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,160 Tell me about your vision. 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:04,300 Ah, excellent response. 3 00:00:04,300 --> 00:00:09,300 So I'll say this, I built five, four companies. 4 00:00:09,300 --> 00:00:10,580 I built more than four companies, 5 00:00:10,580 --> 00:00:14,920 but four successful, relatively successful companies. 6 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:16,440 And this is the fifth. 7 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:21,200 And my vision for this was, it's a give back tour. 8 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,840 And so my real vision for this 9 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,080 is to make this so successful 10 00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:31,080 that it contributes to the ecosystem. 11 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,360 A whole bunch of people who have lived through the ups 12 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,400 and downs of an early stage company to a mature company 13 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,200 and are able through that experience 14 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,960 to have a better chance of starting their own, 15 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:45,520 or at least getting a great position within a company 16 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,400 that would best suit where they wanna be in their career. 17 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,240 But to really share my experiences, 18 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,200 both with my own team, but with other teams, 19 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,000 because I mentor a lot of entrepreneurs. 20 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:01,480 So it really is a give back tour. 21 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,600 In terms of economics and goals, there's lots of that. 22 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:10,360 But I work basically on three-year cycles. 23 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:14,280 And so the vision, what I have right now 24 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,760 in terms of a company is what I would describe 25 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:19,840 as a travel agency if you're looking 26 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,220 for an outsourced agency. 27 00:01:22,220 --> 00:01:26,040 So in the old days before the internet, 28 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,200 when you wanted to go on a trip somewhere in the world, 29 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,060 you would go to a travel agent 30 00:01:30,060 --> 00:01:31,920 who would have been to those places, 31 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,760 knows where to stay, knows what restaurants to go to 32 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:35,960 and all those things. 33 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:38,000 And when you're looking for outsourcing, 34 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,120 there are so many choices around the world 35 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,360 and in your own city, let alone in your own country, 36 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:44,880 that it's overwhelming. 37 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,900 So we've built a big database on who's good at what. 38 00:01:47,900 --> 00:01:52,900 And then we can guide them and give them a short list 39 00:01:53,260 --> 00:01:54,780 based on not only who's good at what, 40 00:01:54,780 --> 00:01:57,460 but who has the right team at the time of asking. 41 00:01:57,460 --> 00:02:01,100 Because even a good company that might be appropriate 42 00:02:01,100 --> 00:02:04,580 for based on their experience and what they have on paper 43 00:02:04,580 --> 00:02:08,260 and the people that have worked in that company, 44 00:02:08,260 --> 00:02:11,300 those people might not be available when they're asking. 45 00:02:11,300 --> 00:02:13,620 So it's a waste of time to talk to them. 46 00:02:13,620 --> 00:02:15,660 It's only to the people that have the right people 47 00:02:15,660 --> 00:02:18,540 who have built the same projects in the same tech stack 48 00:02:18,540 --> 00:02:20,740 and are available at the time of asking. 49 00:02:20,740 --> 00:02:24,420 So we use a lot of data to get to a small list of companies 50 00:02:24,420 --> 00:02:26,820 that are best suited and then we do that. 51 00:02:26,820 --> 00:02:29,900 That's a lot of handholding through a process. 52 00:02:29,900 --> 00:02:31,700 So when I say we're a travel agent, 53 00:02:31,700 --> 00:02:33,620 we really know how to get through all that data, 54 00:02:33,620 --> 00:02:36,220 get through all the resumes, get through everything. 55 00:02:36,220 --> 00:02:38,700 But we're automating so much of that process now 56 00:02:38,700 --> 00:02:42,060 thanks to AI that we can slowly lift that 57 00:02:42,060 --> 00:02:44,780 into what I would describe more as 58 00:02:44,780 --> 00:02:47,460 going from travel agency to Expedia. 59 00:02:49,180 --> 00:02:51,060 And so at that point, and because engineers 60 00:02:51,060 --> 00:02:54,540 who are generally our customers, lead engineers, 61 00:02:54,540 --> 00:02:57,220 they don't like to talk to salespeople and be guided through. 62 00:02:57,220 --> 00:02:58,780 They like to solve their own problems 63 00:02:58,780 --> 00:03:00,300 and they wanna do it all on their own. 64 00:03:00,300 --> 00:03:02,100 But there's so many places you can go wrong still, 65 00:03:02,100 --> 00:03:04,620 like just how you interview an agency. 66 00:03:04,620 --> 00:03:06,420 There's so many tips and tricks. 67 00:03:06,420 --> 00:03:09,460 So until we've sort of worked through that 68 00:03:09,460 --> 00:03:12,140 and productized that in some way that allows them, 69 00:03:12,140 --> 00:03:16,860 it's I would call it bunkers, we will be moving 70 00:03:16,860 --> 00:03:20,660 from high touch to medium touch to no touch. 71 00:03:20,660 --> 00:03:23,220 That's the vision for the company. 72 00:03:23,220 --> 00:03:25,380 And my vision is to be the top company 73 00:03:25,380 --> 00:03:27,300 that people go to when they wanna outsource 74 00:03:27,300 --> 00:03:32,060 for engineering or data science, 75 00:03:32,060 --> 00:03:34,820 not on an individual basis, but from a B2B basis. 76 00:03:34,820 --> 00:03:36,540 So you get a whole team or you get a company 77 00:03:36,540 --> 00:03:37,820 that has a team, et cetera. 78 00:03:38,940 --> 00:03:40,740 There's lots of companies that do individual stuff, 79 00:03:40,740 --> 00:03:43,980 like job work and others, but that's the vision. 80 00:03:45,220 --> 00:03:48,860 Okay, well, that goes to my next question, Sean. 81 00:03:50,140 --> 00:03:52,460 Where did this vision of you come from? 82 00:03:54,100 --> 00:03:57,740 Experience, like I said, I built a couple of tech companies. 83 00:03:59,980 --> 00:04:04,740 Finding engineers when you're looking to hire them 84 00:04:04,740 --> 00:04:08,100 is a slow process and good engineers 85 00:04:08,100 --> 00:04:09,300 are always already working. 86 00:04:09,300 --> 00:04:12,380 So you have to pull them out of where they're working. 87 00:04:12,380 --> 00:04:15,580 And sometimes you need speed and expertise at the same time. 88 00:04:15,580 --> 00:04:17,020 You need to get those people in now. 89 00:04:17,020 --> 00:04:19,540 I've got a client who needs to get this built 90 00:04:19,540 --> 00:04:21,380 or else we're not gonna get the sale. 91 00:04:22,540 --> 00:04:24,580 My technical debt is so bad, I need to get rid of it, 92 00:04:24,580 --> 00:04:28,220 but all my engineers are working on these other clients. 93 00:04:28,220 --> 00:04:30,980 For many reasons, people need to outsource. 94 00:04:30,980 --> 00:04:35,980 And when you do, unlike finding engineers to hire, 95 00:04:36,340 --> 00:04:37,780 it's the opposite problem. 96 00:04:37,780 --> 00:04:41,220 I describe it as going from a desert out there 97 00:04:41,220 --> 00:04:45,220 for finding a good engineer to water, water everywhere, 98 00:04:45,220 --> 00:04:46,580 but not a drop to drink. 99 00:04:48,540 --> 00:04:52,540 And so the vision is that, yeah, there's upwork 100 00:04:52,540 --> 00:04:53,380 and there's those things. 101 00:04:53,380 --> 00:04:55,940 And hiring individuals and putting them together 102 00:04:55,940 --> 00:04:58,100 is not necessarily making a team. 103 00:04:58,100 --> 00:04:59,540 And at the other end of the extreme, 104 00:04:59,540 --> 00:05:04,300 you've got the bigs, Capgemini, Infosys, 105 00:05:04,300 --> 00:05:06,460 everybody else who are the big 106 00:05:06,460 --> 00:05:09,740 digital transformation companies, IBM, Deloitte, 107 00:05:09,740 --> 00:05:12,260 but in the middle where most people live, 108 00:05:12,260 --> 00:05:14,460 small and medium sized enterprises, 109 00:05:14,460 --> 00:05:18,940 high growth tech companies, there is nowhere you can go 110 00:05:18,940 --> 00:05:22,180 to filter out who's good at what 111 00:05:22,180 --> 00:05:24,620 and know who's available in that company 112 00:05:24,620 --> 00:05:26,580 that's good or not good. 113 00:05:26,580 --> 00:05:28,340 You have to do your own due diligence. 114 00:05:28,340 --> 00:05:30,100 And so that's the challenge. 115 00:05:30,100 --> 00:05:32,420 You're busy, you're growing, you need speed 116 00:05:32,420 --> 00:05:34,340 and you need quality, you need it now. 117 00:05:34,340 --> 00:05:36,540 So, but you don't have time 118 00:05:38,380 --> 00:05:39,620 because you don't have time, 119 00:05:39,620 --> 00:05:41,900 you can't do all the due diligence on all these companies. 120 00:05:41,900 --> 00:05:43,980 So you don't have good data. 121 00:05:43,980 --> 00:05:47,100 And without good data, you can't make a really good decision. 122 00:05:48,620 --> 00:05:51,140 And that's where the vision came from. 123 00:05:51,140 --> 00:05:54,740 It was offer that service as an opportunity. 124 00:05:54,740 --> 00:05:56,940 And what's great about it is the matching, 125 00:05:56,940 --> 00:06:00,380 why, you know, what's amazing is these engineers sort of say, 126 00:06:00,380 --> 00:06:04,940 hey, you know, I got this call because my CEO told me, 127 00:06:04,940 --> 00:06:06,700 you know, met you and said, you're a good guy, 128 00:06:06,700 --> 00:06:08,260 but you know, I'm only taking this call 129 00:06:08,260 --> 00:06:11,060 because I was told by my CEO, right? 130 00:06:11,060 --> 00:06:13,900 Reluctant to, you know, I've heard from recruiters 131 00:06:13,900 --> 00:06:15,940 and agencies all, you know, I get a hundred emails 132 00:06:15,940 --> 00:06:17,140 from all these agencies a day. 133 00:06:17,140 --> 00:06:18,540 I don't, why do I want to talk to you? 134 00:06:18,540 --> 00:06:20,660 We're not an agency and we're not a recruiter. 135 00:06:20,660 --> 00:06:23,060 We're helping you get through that mess. 136 00:06:23,060 --> 00:06:25,500 They slowly ease up and then they get to the point 137 00:06:25,500 --> 00:06:27,980 where when they finally get to the last sort of three 138 00:06:27,980 --> 00:06:30,300 companies that we're interviewing for, 139 00:06:30,300 --> 00:06:32,900 to present to them, they're like, whoa, 140 00:06:32,900 --> 00:06:34,700 this could actually work. 141 00:06:34,700 --> 00:06:37,100 And then when they actually sign them on 142 00:06:37,100 --> 00:06:39,420 and actually go through the first sprint, 143 00:06:39,420 --> 00:06:42,180 they're like, they call me and go, I need 10 more. 144 00:06:42,180 --> 00:06:44,260 That's awesome. Like give me more. 145 00:06:44,260 --> 00:06:47,740 And so the customer, the fit is amazing. 146 00:06:48,900 --> 00:06:53,900 And so we're very happy that we're making both the vendor, 147 00:06:54,780 --> 00:06:57,660 many of which on the vendor side, you know, 148 00:06:57,660 --> 00:06:59,340 agencies will do anything to get business. 149 00:06:59,340 --> 00:07:02,180 And they're generally capable of, you know, 150 00:07:02,180 --> 00:07:04,300 massaging things or trying to make things fit, 151 00:07:04,300 --> 00:07:07,500 but I don't want square pegs trying to fit in round holes. 152 00:07:07,500 --> 00:07:12,340 And so I want, I find the round pegs that fit that hole. 153 00:07:12,340 --> 00:07:14,220 And we, and we find five or six of them, 154 00:07:14,220 --> 00:07:15,980 and maybe it's red, blue, and green, who knows, 155 00:07:15,980 --> 00:07:19,380 but the point is the client gets the options, 156 00:07:19,380 --> 00:07:20,820 the right fit. 157 00:07:20,820 --> 00:07:24,220 And when the right, when it's the right fit, it's magic. 158 00:07:24,220 --> 00:07:27,420 Like they just love the outcome. 159 00:07:27,420 --> 00:07:28,980 And the agency loves the outcome 160 00:07:28,980 --> 00:07:30,260 because they love to work with that client. 161 00:07:30,260 --> 00:07:32,140 It's not just technical fit. 162 00:07:32,140 --> 00:07:34,180 It's also cultural fit, work style fit, 163 00:07:34,180 --> 00:07:36,700 and everything else that we filter for. 164 00:07:36,700 --> 00:07:41,140 So what I love about it is that happy ending is that 165 00:07:41,140 --> 00:07:43,180 the companies really work well together. 166 00:07:43,180 --> 00:07:44,020 That is amazing. 167 00:07:44,020 --> 00:07:48,620 That is, that's a great, unique vision. 168 00:07:48,620 --> 00:07:53,620 I have to say, I have never heard it described it that way. 169 00:07:53,740 --> 00:07:57,980 Cause I have, I get contacted by agencies all the time. 170 00:07:57,980 --> 00:07:59,340 Hey, we got a job for you here. 171 00:07:59,340 --> 00:08:00,700 You got a job for you there. 172 00:08:00,700 --> 00:08:03,060 I'm like, I don't know. 173 00:08:03,060 --> 00:08:04,260 I don't think you know what I need. 174 00:08:04,260 --> 00:08:06,420 I don't think you know what I want, right? 175 00:08:06,420 --> 00:08:07,260 Exactly. 176 00:08:07,260 --> 00:08:08,300 Exactly. 177 00:08:08,300 --> 00:08:09,300 That is amazing. 178 00:08:10,900 --> 00:08:12,820 I think you've kind of answered this question, 179 00:08:12,820 --> 00:08:15,660 but would you say that is also your lie 180 00:08:15,660 --> 00:08:17,500 of why you do it, what you do? 181 00:08:17,500 --> 00:08:19,340 Yeah, because it's so unfortunate. 182 00:08:19,340 --> 00:08:21,220 That's just all, for all these agencies, 183 00:08:21,220 --> 00:08:22,980 I feel bad for them because some of them 184 00:08:22,980 --> 00:08:25,980 are really, really good and they deserve to get some work. 185 00:08:25,980 --> 00:08:29,740 But in the inbox of all their people they're pushing to, 186 00:08:29,740 --> 00:08:32,140 it's just white noise and no one's paying 187 00:08:32,140 --> 00:08:33,980 any attention to it. 188 00:08:33,980 --> 00:08:36,140 So how do they get the business? 189 00:08:36,140 --> 00:08:37,620 How do they cut through that traffic? 190 00:08:37,620 --> 00:08:40,180 And that's one of the whys is to help the agencies 191 00:08:40,180 --> 00:08:41,860 get better management and get the real business 192 00:08:41,860 --> 00:08:43,460 that they actually deserve. 193 00:08:43,460 --> 00:08:45,380 But we don't represent the agencies to be clear. 194 00:08:45,380 --> 00:08:47,260 We don't take any money from agencies. 195 00:08:48,220 --> 00:08:51,620 And for the client, oh my gosh, I mean, how much time, 196 00:08:51,620 --> 00:08:54,260 like it's not the fact that you would waste 197 00:08:54,260 --> 00:08:56,860 three to four months doing the research 198 00:08:56,860 --> 00:08:58,980 to find the agency only to find out 199 00:08:58,980 --> 00:09:01,180 that you got a hoodwinked and it was a bait and switch. 200 00:09:01,180 --> 00:09:03,060 They brought some people to the interview 201 00:09:03,060 --> 00:09:04,860 and they're not available at the time of the contract. 202 00:09:04,860 --> 00:09:06,540 Oh, funny how that worked out. 203 00:09:06,540 --> 00:09:09,340 But I've got these other people who are just as good, 204 00:09:09,340 --> 00:09:11,780 just as good, that they just recruited 205 00:09:11,780 --> 00:09:13,620 to get this contract going. 206 00:09:13,620 --> 00:09:17,060 And so you end up with this, it's just like a startup, 207 00:09:17,060 --> 00:09:19,060 you know, you've heard of the cycle of a startup 208 00:09:19,060 --> 00:09:21,740 that's sort of this hope and aspirational period 209 00:09:21,740 --> 00:09:22,700 where you get your first customers 210 00:09:22,700 --> 00:09:25,740 and then you get this trough of despair as it's called. 211 00:09:25,740 --> 00:09:27,380 And then the storm was here. 212 00:09:27,380 --> 00:09:32,380 Yeah, so the same thing happens with most clients 213 00:09:32,940 --> 00:09:35,060 in that when they go on their own, 214 00:09:35,060 --> 00:09:37,260 they get really pumped based on the call they had 215 00:09:37,260 --> 00:09:40,220 with the CEO or the CTO of the agency 216 00:09:40,220 --> 00:09:41,860 and they sound like they're gonna be perfect. 217 00:09:41,860 --> 00:09:43,460 They know exactly what we need to do. 218 00:09:43,460 --> 00:09:45,300 But that's the thing is they take those calls 219 00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:47,460 all day long every day. 220 00:09:47,460 --> 00:09:50,740 So they know exactly what to say to make them sound good. 221 00:09:50,740 --> 00:09:52,740 And the vendor, the buyer is, you know, 222 00:09:52,740 --> 00:09:54,420 maybe the first time they've ever done, 223 00:09:54,420 --> 00:09:55,260 gone through this process. 224 00:09:55,260 --> 00:09:57,460 They don't really have a good process to figure things out. 225 00:09:57,460 --> 00:10:01,100 So their expectations go up, the reality is down here. 226 00:10:01,100 --> 00:10:03,140 And then after a couple of sprints, they go, 227 00:10:03,140 --> 00:10:04,500 oh my gosh, we made a big mistake. 228 00:10:04,500 --> 00:10:08,260 And either they cut loose after a couple of months, 229 00:10:08,260 --> 00:10:10,980 or they just plow on and try and make it work. 230 00:10:10,980 --> 00:10:12,700 I've sunk so much time into this, 231 00:10:12,700 --> 00:10:14,260 I'm gonna make it happen. 232 00:10:14,260 --> 00:10:17,140 I'm gonna train these guys how to understand our business. 233 00:10:17,140 --> 00:10:18,300 That should never happen. 234 00:10:18,300 --> 00:10:19,660 And that's the why. 235 00:10:19,660 --> 00:10:21,020 Thank you for being here today. 236 00:10:21,020 --> 00:10:23,500 I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. 237 00:10:23,500 --> 00:10:26,180 I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions 238 00:10:26,180 --> 00:10:28,420 as these episodes continue to move forward. 239 00:10:28,420 --> 00:10:30,180 This is gonna get more and more fun. 240 00:10:30,180 --> 00:10:31,980 We'll have more and more engagement as well. 241 00:10:31,980 --> 00:10:34,100 We'll invite people to participate in the show. 242 00:10:34,100 --> 00:10:36,420 And thank you for giving us your time and attention. 243 00:10:36,420 --> 00:10:39,180 Have an excellent time building out your vision 244 00:10:39,180 --> 00:10:50,180 and becoming a Vision Pro yourself.