I'm going to be a fan. Fun.
That'll be great. Awesome.
We're still and still coming
together. Yeah. Awesome. So,
this is uh this is book number
three, right? Book number
three. Book number three.
Super fun. What's the title of
the book? Uh so, it's not
officially finished like in
press yet but um mislabeled is
what we're going for right now.
Oh, I like that mislabeled and
uh limiting beliefs. Go ahead.
Go ahead. You hit it. Yeah, I
know and then just the
transforming limiting beliefs
into liberating ones. So, or
limiting labels into liberating
ones. I I really like how you
wrote that up. I'm going to
read what you wrote to our team
about this. Um for those of you
who are new to Karim Abel Naga,
he is a Forbes 30 under 30
education space recipient or
what do you call that? Um
that's almost six, seven years
ago. Hey, that's alright.
You're on your way to the Forbes
40 under 40 still. Um so, this
is good. Um and you've you've
built such an incredible system
to help teachers, principals,
youth, um and for the tutoring
space, we might just cover that
a little bit today. We'll
certainly be showing the the
scissor row in just a minute
everybody but we have um this is
a book that I wrote in the
last few weeks with Karim and
in relation to this new book
about labels and limiting
beliefs and I would say that the
imposter syndrome or the fears
and doubts and preconceived
notions that we have about
ourselves hold so many
excellent leaders back that
when you propose coming back on
the show to talk about this, I
was like, oh yeah, this will be
awesome. So, I'm going to read
what you wrote. You said, I
love to teach. I've been
working on my third book to
talk about limiting labels into
liberating ones. Limiting
beliefs impede our ability to
fulfill our full potential. Our
beliefs drive our behaviors,
shaping our outcomes. As
leaders, our behaviors are the
primary means by which others
around us learn and oftentimes
our limiting beliefs are the
result of a limiting label that
we have. I know these
conversations go quickly so we
can talk about the aspiration
for it. The framework that
we're going to be using to
talk about our conversation
about strategies to unpack the
limiting labels. We're going to
do our best to unpack all of
that everybody. Um he's also
about a TED Talk by the way. So,
I highly recommend checking
out it if you haven't and um
before we before we cut to a
little bit of a break, Karim,
what what's on your mind and
heart right now in relation to
the vision pros community,
limiting beliefs, limiting
labels, and what we're going to
unpack today. I just want
somebody who's watching this to
be able to do it and you know,
whatever that one thing is that
they've been that's been
holding them back that this
pushes them to take that next
step. So, hoping we'll be able
to do that together by the end
of this. I love that. I'm
certain we will. I hope that
you listening right now that
you're the one that you allow
yourself to open yourself up to
what we we come across in terms
of your leadership and one of
the best ways you can do that is
don't hesitate to drop a
question or comment. It doesn't
matter if we get to it live on
this show or if we get to it in
person, we can advertise your
comments or questions no matter
when they come in to see if we
can help you get to that next
level and we'll see you guys
right after a little break.
Alright, welcome in to Vision
Pros Live with Jackson Calame.
I'm your show host. We'll be
doing interviews for visionary
entrepreneurs and guest
leaders who are building
fantastic visions out there.
Thank you.
Standing beside me is governing
board member Karim Abunaga.
Karim Abunaga is CEO and
co-founder of Practice Makes
Perfect. Karim was named to
Forbes 30 under 30 list. His
TED Talk was named one of the
most inspiring speeches of
twenty-seventeen. Clap three
times if you can hear me. Seven
times if you can hear me.
What's even more exciting is
that if we can prevent five
months of lost time just by
redesigning two months, imagine
the possibilities that we can
unlock by tackling the rest of
the calendar year. What are some
of the things that you think
that we as school librarians
can do to get our kids like
fired up about our summer
reading programs? I mean,
there's so much today on
individualizing like
instruction and learning. The
number one reason why kids show
up every single day is because
it's the notion that you wake
up every single day and
someone cares about your
presence. My father passed away
in 2007. There we were from
middle class to literally rock
bottom. A lot of the
experiences that have come
through that have made the
individual that I am today. In
low income neighborhoods, kids
forget almost three months of
what they learned during the
school year over the summer.
People respond to urgency. Why
is this important to you right
now? Why do you care about
this today? Why didn't you care
about this ten days ago or
twenty days ago or two years
ago? Why are you so important
to this person to be doing this
work in this moment? If we
truly want to embrace the full
potential of our future, then
we need to move away from this
notion of just looking out for
my kids and move in the
direction of looking out for
all of our kids.
What's up, Vision Pros? I am so
excited to have Karim
back with us today. This is a
title that says freedom through
our limiting beliefs, not
freedom from our limiting
beliefs and we're going to be
talking about that
masterminding and without
further ado, Karim, welcome
back to Vision Pros Live. Thank
you, Jackson. Excited to be
back and just to continue to
unpack a little bit more for
our audience. Absolutely. So,
I've got this dying. I'm dying
to ask. I saw on the video, it
said you had helped already
over fifty thousand low income
kids in the last day. Oh, I
don't have the exact number but
I know it's over that that
amount. Um I had a mentor
early on who said, uh you need
to make a decision. Um you
either are going to go really
deep or you're going to go
really wide and both of them
are going to have a very
different impact and um at the
time, I remember thinking I
wanted to help as many kids as
humanly possible. Um and in the
process you do, you lose count
with with what you're doing
when you're at that scale but
you're still getting that
opportunity to interact with a
scholar who's now, you know,
I'm aging myself a little bit
but in college or a mentor who
is now working in in the world
like it just continues to
remind me why we do the work
that we do day in and day out
but I'm not stopping until we
get to that million number. So,
we're pushing. Dude, that's
that's huge and it'll be fun to
look back on 10 to 20 years
from now. I can't wait to ask
you about the one side of my
life. The older I get, the more
fulfilling life feels because
of what I've chosen to do with
my time in a lot of ways, right?
I don't I don't look at forty
and think, oh no, I can't
believe I'm going to be forty.
I know some people have that
limiting belief in that label
of like, well, that's over the
hill 100 years ago. Um you know
and people can fear that. I
look at it. I'm like, oh man,
like the amount of wisdom that
I've had, you know, 40 years
down the road on that, you know,
it it just, it it gets me
excited for those next chapters
of life. Um so, speaking of,
freedom through our limiting
beliefs and these labels. I'd
love for you to walk me through
either the framework or your
thoughts and where you're at
with this. You got the book
coming out and all that too.
Uh where do we start? Yeah, I
mean, I will say it is now with
the literary agent and the
process takes its time. It
takes a lot of time. I just
want to give you some insight
into it. Um but II feel like as
a kid growing up, low income,
immigrant from another country,
um from the very like the very
beginning, you step foot into
a school and you're labeled,
right? And for me, it was ESL
at the time. English is the
second language learner and
you're put on a track based on
that. Um but in the process, I
as I was learning more about
the education and equity, I
started to see that as a
label. It was also labeled,
right? Destined to go to
prison, destined to not be able
to read, destined to not be
able to succeed and hold the
titles that I've been fortunate
to hold today but wasn't
expected, right? CEO, founder,
um people who are who are
influencing what's happening in
business and in politics. Um
and so, I knew that so many
children who are growing up
just like me were being written
off before they even had the
chance to fulfill their
dreams of how do I do this,
right? Starting what was a
nonprofit originally out of
school with no wealthy family
or friends to make donations.
How do you do that? Um and then
all along the journey, I used
to think to myself like seeing
folks who are a few years
ahead like when I get there,
I'll be more confident. Um when
I get there, it'll feel a lot
easier, right? And every
single time you get to that
place where you thought you
were gonna be, you still
realize that you operate in the
same way. You still doubt
that you're gonna be able to
do that. You need to unpack. I
mean, I I spend hours in
therapy every year, right? Um
still unpacking things that I
dealt with as a kid, things
that I'm interacting with
today and I I recognize that so
many of them come back to a
label, right? And that label
sometimes is positive and when
it's positive, it can do so
much for you because it
instills that confidence but
other times, it's limiting and
you don't even recognize that
label. It's true. And so, I
just, as someone who believes,
right? Um we rise to the
expectations that people put
onto us and around us. I
recognize how important it was
to make sure that the labels
that are defining us are also
correct. Wow. That's there's a
lot of profound wisdom in that.
Um you know, and I I guess I
only speak from my background
in relation to that but I've
I've been through some therapy
and I've been through a lot of
twice divorced. Had a lot of us
to learn. Um you know, going
through that and then there's
that label of divorce too and I
know a lot of people get really
really heavily defeated by it.
Um I got a buddy when I got
divorced. He said, Jackson, I'm
not worried about you at all.
Um and I remember it's like like
my heart started to sing that
he said, you don't drink.
You're gonna be fine. And I'm
like, you know what? There's a
lot of truth to what you're
saying and and sure enough, you
know, I've had a lot of
depressions and panics that a
lot of other divorces go
through and I in essence, it
kind of liberated me to become a
little bit more valuable to
those around me because of
other life choices that I had
made that that gave me a sense
of security in that experience,
right? But I also did do a lot
of reading and a lot of therapy
sessions. One of the best books
on the subject of labels in my
life is Buried Alive Never
Die. And that book made immense
impacts on my ability to
recognize what I had become,
what I had left behind that was
part of my own like innate
intrinsic value like what why
I'm why I'm worth more than
anybody can comprehend without
anybody else putting a label on
that themselves, right? So,
I'm not sure if I'm aware out
related to this and yet, I I
worry for those who don't take
the time to to figure these
aspects out. What what what do
you have to say about that?
Yeah, I mean, I'm I've looked
out there. I've seen what's out
there and and one of the areas
I felt like was lacking was
giving people something simple
and giving them a framework
that they could latch onto and
I felt like the best
leadership books that were out
there were the most simple but
then in their framework and
then if you wanted to unpack
the framework even more, you
could get even deeper but if
you didn't even get that far,
you could walk away with some
wisdom that would empower you
and so at a high level, if
you're in pursuit of a
leadership position or you're
on a leadership journey, just
expect that people will put
labels onto you all throughout
your journey and those labels
aren't necessarily the right
label. So, they should not
always define you, right? And
that's what I'm trying to do
with criticism but the first
thing I always tell people is
expect that labels are going to
come your way, right? And they
say half thick skin. The second
piece of it and and what I tried
to do was give folks a simple
framework but also related to
something that that we may all
know which is a hermit crab and
the thing I love about hermit
crabs is hermit crabs actually
go through multiple shells
throughout their lives and
they're always looking for the
next shell that fits right and
so with this framework, what we
start with is a recognition of
the label. That's the very
first step. Sometimes, we know
it's obvious. Sometimes, it's
not so obvious. You've become
numb to it because people have
been saying it to us our whole
lives like, oh, that person is
shy, right? So, their whole
life, they just expect that
they're shy but they've never
really been shy and I'll I'll
share a personal one for you
all. When I was in, I want to
say like early adulthood, a lot
of times, he's not very
emotional. You know, he he can
come across as being cold or
distant and so I started to
accept that and say, you know
what? Maybe I am cold. Maybe I
am distant and it wasn't until
I started to unpack that that I
realized like, no, actually,
I've always been really
emotional inside. I just did a
really good job at starting to
hide it because of the like
trauma I went through as a kid
and I knew that when I shared
my feelings or expressed how I
felt, I was not going to take
advantage of. It wasn't until I
got to my age today that I
recognize that, no, like
sharing your feelings, you
know, expressing yourself. If
people do take advantage of it,
that's on them but that that
vulnerability builds trust and
so the very first step of the
framework is recognize.
Recognize. The second step is
to remove and this is the step
that most people forget or
forget about on a limiting
belief like, oh, they tell you
if someone says you're bad at
something, ignore that and and
do the opposite and say like,
no, I'm actually really good at
it. Um so, you replace the
negative with a positive,
right? That's the most common
advice out there but what
you're not doing is taking the
time to actually remove and the
removal process is where the
critical thinking and the
reflection happens. Um I
remember one of my siblings.
They didn't know anything about
the label. They didn't know
anything about the label. Um
and I told him, you know, I
gave it back to me to one of my
brothers because every time I
gave him money, he never gave
it back. Um and so, he started
calling me stingy and he said,
you know, you're very stingy
with your money. Um and when
you hear that a couple times,
even if it's from one person,
it starts to like hurt. Um and
so, I sat there. I I recognize
the label. The next thing I
started to do when I was
removing it was I didn't just
say, oh, you know what? I'm
generous. No, I sat down and I
said, I'm generous, right?
Here's what I've been doing.
Here's what I've done and I was
able to effectively remove uh
the label that was there. Um
the example I love to use is if
you've been in a relationship
and you've moved in with
someone before you've gotten
married or you've gotten
married, right? Um let's say
you had an amicable like
falling out. You've decided,
you know what? This
relationship isn't it. We're
not going to do it anymore. Um
the next step that you have to
go through is the removal
process. You'll be able to jump
into a new relationship and
start bringing this new
significant other into your
place where your ex partner is.
Yeah. You can try. You can try.
You can try. I beg you don't. I
beg you don't do it. So, you
you have to go through the
process of removing and I'll
I'll give maybe our our
listeners here can't relate to
that one but a new TV, right?
You decide, okay, the TV I have
in my home isn't working
anymore. It doesn't suit my
needs. You go out and you buy a
new TV and you put the TV on
top of the old one, right? You
have to go through the process
of actually removing it and
then when you're done removing,
then you replace. So, that's
the last step in the framework.
Um so, you recognize, you
remove, and then you replace,
and what you replace it with is
either the the aspirational
version or where you're at
today and I I love um one of
the some of the research I ran
across on this which says we
all need to be authentic and
we need to be authentic to
keep your past self, your
present self, or your future
self. All three are still
yourself um but which
authenticity are you aiming
for and and I always tell folks
like hopefully your present
self is better than your past
self and your future self is
going to be better than your
present self and so when you're
choosing who you're going to be
authentic to and what you're
replacing it with, um you're
replacing it either with who
you actually are today or who
you actually are tomorrow and
tomorrow, I want to be more
philanthropic. So, I I took
this one limiting label. I
recognized it because I heard
it enough times. I took the
time to actually remove it and
then I replaced it um and it
goes back to that that hermit
crab, right? Um you're around
the shell starts to get really
tight uh as a hermit crab, you
can't just put another shell on
top of the existing one. They
also don't have the skeletal
structure for it, right? So,
what do they do? They drop the
shell when they find another
hermit crab um and then they
put the new one on and they
again go about their merry
lives and I I use the hermit
crab analogy to say you're
going to go through multiple
shells um and you're going to
do this exercise and go through
multiple labels throughout your
leadership journey. Oh man,
that is beautiful. Especially,
I was just at Port Aransas,
Texas, right? We're in the,
we're on the coast uh gathering
hermit crabs speaking of, you
know, and like playing with all
the shells and things. So, it's
right at home for me but this
is right at home for me on the
other side of the world. Um
again, back to that book. One
of the labels um right that that
she explores. She she does an
amazing job of breaking down
all of the emotions that exist
known to the English language
and pairing them with their
counterpart, their opposites.
So, one that really stood out
to me and one that really hurt
to evaluate and I was in my
thirties when I did this. Um
you know, it was like, I don't
know if you know, I'm not
tracking time for the most part
but it was happiness and the
opposite of happiness, most of
us know and realize is sadness.
Um and I have a sister who has
said for the majority of my
life, I always feel bad for how
sad you you've you were as a
child. Um you know, and and you
know, she knew my my
relationship with my father. Um
you know, I'm not sure. Anyway,
sad story. Um but I never felt
sad. You know, like and she'd
say it and I was like, I'm just
me, you know, like but looking
back on it in my thirties was
like, man, I really get
uncomfortable with happiness.
As a teenager, I hated the word
joy like just awkward like
weird. Like it feels like, you
know, froufrou and all the
woo woo and you know, I kind of
started to realize that nowadays
after reading this book, right?
And really starting to figure
out, man, okay, sadness is kind
of robbing me of happiness. How
do I, how do I work on this? I
didn't have your framework but
I had the idea and the concept
and the realization that you
know what? It's kind of dumb to
be scared of happiness. It's
kind of limiting like what if
I'm missing out on a lot of
really cool things and important
aspects of life by not having
to worry about this now and
reflect back on the last four
to five year journey of
associating with it and seeing
how I've left my shells behind
and looked at things and there's
peers too that help with this.
That would be my next piece of
advice for all of you is that
like Gary Vaynerchuk's advice,
he's probably the one who
champions it the most of being
aware of who your circle of
five and ten people are. Those
who you're striving to be like
and spending time with, one of
the first people to come to
him was JP Sears, the comedian
and he also struggled to become
his authentic self so to speak
in the present and his Ted
talks about it. His process is
all about like well learning to
own who you are and be willing
to bring that into existence.
He became a figure for me to
say, I want to be more like JP
Sears. I want to be able to be
more me and as I started to
grow, I became in my own
version of myself and saying,
you know what? I just want to
be more me. He kind of gave me
that that liberation. So, now,
you've given me a framework to
continue to double and triple
down on this in different ways.
So, I'm I'm just super grateful
that we talked about this
today. Oh, of course. Yeah. And
so, when you're talking about
what's out there, I said, okay,
how do we distill this? How do
we make it relatable? Um and
then, as we start to unpack it,
where are the troughs, right?
Where are people going to
experience roadblocks or
things like that? And then,
we're going to share at least
some of the ones that I think
are are going to be the first
ones that you're going to hit.
Uh yeah, let's hear it. So, I
think with recognition, that
very first step, um one of the
things we need to be mindful of
and embracing of is the fact
that we all have blind spots.
Um so, that is the first spot
that uh we need to sort of
accept. Um oftentimes, people
tell us things about ourselves
and our first reaction is, no,
that's not true. Well, it's a
blind spot, right? So, that's
the first step. That's the
blind spot. So, how do you
accept that you have blind
spots, right? How do you teach
somebody to accept that they
have blind spots? I mean, the
the best someone did for me
before was say, you know, like
in your car, when you're
driving, there's just some
spots you can't see and in your
life, it's the very same way
and your reaction to it is
going to be that that's not
true or that's not possible and
it's because you don't see it
but we know just because we
can't see it doesn't mean that
it's not real. So, we need to
have blind spots. So, we need
to start with that level of
acceptance and then knowing
that, right? We need to be able
to ask ourselves better
questions. So, instead of just
saying like, oh, why am I sad,
right? Why was this label put
onto me? Yeah. Of sadness,
right? Why was it done at that
particular age? Why is it
being done by this particular
person? Um because when we
start to unpack with better
questions, we actually get
better answers and oftentimes
we do on on the right learning
journey and you know, I I have
my weekly newsletter to CEOs
and executives to improve their
leadership and it's just one
question a week to continue to
reflect on to improve your own
journey. Um when we talk about
removal, think about uh the
television, right? Or think
about that partner who you've
kind of amicably parted with.
Um one of the things we often
think about is like, I I need
to do this on my own. I don't
want to share it and so, I
think that's really important
there which is asking for help.
So, creating the community,
finding people that you can
actually ask for help. You
don't want to look to television
by yourself. I know they're
making them lighter and lighter
weight but still, there's
damage there and you don't you
don't want to unpack and go
through that emotional like
baggage or trauma on your own
either, right? There's always a
lot there. There's always like
space for processing. Um I
can't tell you how many times
like in any relationship
relationship, I'm like, am I
seeing this thing? Am I going
crazy? That's like, no, this is
normal and then when you hear
that on the other side, it
calms you down. Um so, asking
for help, one of the big pieces
there and then I'll I'll jump
to one for the replace process
um but I would really say like
I spoke about the selves but
really taking the time to think
about what is that future
identity that we want to work
towards um because I think when
we think about not who we are
today or who we were before but
where are we going? We have so
many things to do. I think we
say it doesn't matter where you
start, right? It's about where
you finish. Mm hmm. Absolutely.
I'll play uh devil's advocate
or angel's advocate a little
bit on the on the seeking the
help. I do believe it's very
important to have a community
and have people that surround
us and I grew up with so many
people to turn to and in so many
different households, I became
an open book. Um far too open
for my own good. Um I didn't
learn until reading some
therapy books about like
what's the best way for
instance to keep the birds out?
Um and that was really helpful
to learn about. I don't remember
the book name. I wish I'd have
looked for it for years. Um
that said, the next layer
though of it um I was I was
exhausting myself by turning to
friend and friend and family
member, family member, after
family member, and therapist,
etcetera. Uh trying to gather
the world's best advice from
people who are just as human as
I am. And it wasn't until I
started to do what I call God,
you know, you you can call it
the universe, you guys can call
it, I don't, I don't care what
you call it, kind of banana.
Um but for me, there's an extra
connection there and it wasn't
until going through my darkest
hours and instead of searching
for help from my mom to solve
the problem or my best friend
to solve the problem, it wasn't
until really diving into fetal
health um from a source that I
didn't really know if it was
there or not. That I really
begin to unlock my own sense of
uh I am who I am and I belong
right where I'm at and I'm good.
Um so I would also encourage
anybody whether you're
meditation power or prayer
power, whatever word you prefer
is walking the block. Um you
know, and taking in the outside
voices from the outside world.
I think I think it's so
important to combine the voices
within and those those external
opportunities for help from
friends and family to to have
some type of balance related to
that. What are your thoughts on
that? Karim? You're welcome to
challenge me. Yeah, I I think
asking for help is just so
important but who you ask for
help in the situation matters.
Um one of my like good CEO
people in the neighborhood, it
goes uh they're folks in a
village and this guy is
climbing a tree. Um he gets to
the top and then he falls off
and he hits his head like lands
really really hard. Um the
entire village like runs over
to the guy to see if he's okay.
Um he's conscious but um needs
some support and they're like,
do you want a medic? Do you
need the police? Do you want us
to call your family? Like, what
can we do for you? And he says,
I want you to find me the guy
who climbed the tree last and
fell down like I did. Um
because that person knows how
to recover and move forward
from here. Um so, I think yes
to your point about like asking
people for help but are we
asking the right source um for
the support when we need it? Are
we going to the person who has
the lived or shared experience
who can share their perspective
because I often say, don't ask
people for advice, ask them for
advice, ask them for advice and
it's their own experience and
it's their own personal
experience and you take what
you need from it and can move
forward. Otherwise, like you
decide, hey, I'm not using this
not as personal. Right? So,
when we ask for advice, the
person is now invested in you
doing what they did but that
work for them doesn't mean it's
going to work for you. Correct.
I love that. That's a fun
parable too. Um I once heard
somebody who is probably 85 um
challenge younger generations
to ask for advice regarding
marriage specifically um from
people who are your age. They're
just as lost as you are. You
know, ask generations that have
decades of experience ahead of
you. Um and it you know, I
think there's, I like, again, I
like how I can combine the
formula of what they were
teaching of. Okay, the the
elderly have wisdom that we
just cannot possibly fathom and
understand and yet even my kids,
they have wisdom and policy and
understandings that I can't
understand without their
insights. So, when you can look
at it and appreciate it from the
reality of perspective versus
trying to have an iron fist
control on truths that we don't
fully understand. Um it's once
again, it's liberating from uh
the ability to both accept,
well, recognize, remove,
replace, and ultimately, move
forward and have freedom, right?
Just, just. Yeah, Jackson. I
just, I wanna dig in a little
bit there just because um it's
very common when you're an
entrepreneur or when you're
getting ready to start a
business to go around asking
people for advice and uh the
one thing that we forget is um
one of my executive coaches
like always reminds me like we
have three brains, right? We
have like our heart brain. We
have our brain brain and then
we have our gut brain. Um and
we're very sophisticated at the
level that it needs to be to be
able to express what's in our
gut or in our heart brain,
right? Um and oftentimes when
we're asking people for advice,
we usually don't have all of
the time in the world to be
able to give them every little
bit of detail and information
that we have and we're not able
to transfer how we're actually
feeling about something whether
in our gut or in our heart um
in that moment and so when
you're asking someone to give
you advice on something, you're
asking them to give you
information. Um and if there's
one party involved and you're
not able to articulate what's
in your heart and in your gut.
So, if you do an amazing job
articulating everything that's
in your brain, you've given
them 30% of the information and
if you have two people involved
in that situation, you're not
even able to share the other
person's perspective. You're
asking them to give you advice
with 15% of the context. Yes.
Do you want people really
making decisions for how you're
going to operate something in
your situation if you did an
incredible job and I would say
when you think about it,
actually that way, the answer
is always no. Correct. But that
doesn't mean you can't learn
from a similar experience and
then distill it and say, okay,
this sounds right. This makes
sense. This doesn't. So, I just
I wanted to dig in a little bit
more there because I know
there's a lot of entrepreneurs,
founders, and and CEOs
watching. I'm glad you did
because that's probably the
greatest mistake that I see
business owners doing. Um you
know, I'm not saying this is my
mouse pad. The effective
executive by Peter Drucker and
it boils down. The principles
boil down to three things that
I just do not see executives
doing and they wonder why
they're not moving their brands
forward and their success forward.
One, knowing my time. Like, know
how you're using your time and
having somebody else log it so
you become effective with the
time you're using to know how
ineffective you are. Two, he
talks about how executives need
to know how to build in order
to build what they need to
build. Three, he says, stop
judging them based on days and
based on weeks and based on
months. Give them quarters.
That's how they're their metrics
should be evaluated. And if we
don't do that, right? If we're
trying to cram everything into
that 30-minute meeting or we're
trying to get to know people
super fast without diving into
depth or judging people based
on results that in one case
study, the SBA, I believe it is
says 96% of businesses fell
within 10 years and another
government agency says 65% fell
within 10 years. Um I don't
really care which stat matters.
Like, I'm not too addicted to
that number. The reality is, I
would never send my kids to a
school or the success rate is
less than 65% or even close. We
are a small business. We are
a small business. We are
entrepreneurship. We are
struggling tremendously to make
the impacts we want to make and
we're struggling to get the
freedoms that we want. I think
you nailed it on the head with
the assessment that there's
context and I'll and I'll give
you one more example. Karim, if
I had an event that I want to
grow, what is your number one
piece of advice to be able to
make sure we maximize the
amount of people there, Karim?
What what? Let's play with this.
Well, I can't give advice. You
know, I can't give advice. I
didn't have a lot of people
there. There you go. What's
your one perspective if we were
to go on the fast version? Um I
would say download a list of
all of your contacts. So,
phone book. There you go. Email
LinkedIn and send messages to
them even knowing even if those
folks couldn't attend. I like
the advice. I like it but what
what the challenge that you
talked about in this very real
situation is that if my event
were tomorrow, right? And I
didn't tell Karim that. That
might not be the most effective
or useful time or for like I
shouldn't be spending my time
on that perhaps. There's other
things I might need to do but
we often blame people like
Karim, right? We ask for the
advice and then we say, well,
how, you know, what you told me
doesn't work. It's that's not,
that's not what's going to
drive the needle for me
tomorrow and we create these
problems. We accept
responsibility for the
situation or we don't know what
to do with the advice or
perspective that's given. Go
ahead. Bridge further gaps. No,
I was gonna say in Jackson,
even with all of the awareness
and my feelings around the
topic, you saw how willing I
was and eager to jump in,
right? And so, the recipient on
the other side just wants to be
helpful, right? Like, here's
this opportunity to fill a cup,
right? And someone is coming to
you with their problems and
they often say, right, the best
way to get over your problems
is to just say, here's this
opportunity to do something
good, to do something meaningful
in the world. They're not
thinking, hey, let me ask some
deeper questions first and find
out. Well, when is this event?
What what's happening? Did I do
I have all the context? What
kind of event is it? They're
just gonna give you what they
have. Work with what you've
told them. Assume that what
you've given them is
everything when it's not. Yes.
Okay. So, it leads me to
another funny story. This is a
former quit in Saman from high
school and he was writing a
book about it. He was a
professional writer. He was
writing a book about it. So, he,
you know, he's not he's not the
type person to do this but he
drove into McDonald's. He got
them breakfast, right? And he
comes and brings it back to
them. And you know, he's he's
excited to do this good deed.
And then he says the guy starts,
you know, he says, did you give
me the pancakes? And the
pancakes. And so, the guy
complained. So, this acquaintance
of mine from high school cusses
me out. This is what Facebook
post is all about. Next time
you see, you know, next time
somebody tries to help you,
just receive the help and I was
like, oh, this is one way to
look at it, you know, but
there's another perspective of
like, man, this guy probably
wanted compassion more than he
wanted, more than he wanted
breakfast. Um so, it it's hard
though as human beings, you
know, we we tend to sometimes
gravitate towards
misunderstanding the label,
right? So, we have to have
limiting beliefs. So, let's
spend some time on that. How how
in that perspective? Like,
what's another perspective to
look at from that scenario that
would free my friend from the
limiting beliefs of, man, I I
bought this and this guy is
completely ungrateful and
basically unworthy of help.
Like, what what's another way
to look at that? I would say
the limiting belief there is
that not everyone is grateful
for help. The other thing I
need to recognize is that I've
just said that people aren't
always grateful for help or not
everyone is grateful for help
and now what I would need to do
is start to remove that and
think back to instances where I
have helped people and maybe
given them something off the
shelf and they've actually
appreciated it. Whether it was
uh perspective or he went and
actually gave breakfast to
someone else in a completely
different way or he disappeared
or he donated money and the
person on the other side of it
received it and was helpful and
now now that he's um started to
remove it, he can replace it
with uh in this one instance,
this person didn't appreciate
what I did off the shelf. Yeah.
Absolutely. There's a huge
opportunity on on our side,
right? As the individual who
takes that bold leap of faith to
be gender judged in essence and
you know, if we can, if we can
take this step back, then we
don't have to ruin somebody
else's day. Um you know, while
also we may get to see things
from a more holistic
perspective. So, these things
come up to as leaders of
companies. Um they these
perspectives come up when you're
dealing with prospects, people
who may want to work with you,
right? So, what are what are
some ways that you see this
coming up in leaders lives on a
daily, weekly, or monthly basis?
I would say assumptions, right?
So, the the first part of when
I talk about the removal stage,
it's uncovering our existing
narrative and I'll use two
instances from work in the last
like year. I had a colleague
and I was talking to him about
what he was going to lead in
order to change a certain
process and the colleague went,
he met with this team twice on
the calendar from what I saw
and during a team meeting, I
said, hey, how's the meeting
been going? Um I recognize
you've had a couple meetings
and he said, no, I haven't had
any meetings and I said, what
do you mean? Like, physically
had a meeting and it wasn't
until I impacted with my coach
and in that conversation
with him, we discussed the
process change and so what he's
saying about not having a
meeting is not untrue and what
I'm expecting to be about that
is also not untrue. There was a
physical meeting but it wasn't
about the topic and so it didn't
count and so like we jump in
with our assumption right away.
I didn't even take the time to
do any discovery and see why is
it that he was saying that that
wasn't a meeting until after it
got heated and then I unpacked
it and realized, hey, you know,
I'm not going to be able to
label his like physical like
coming together as being the
meeting on the topic that we
wanted to discuss. Uh had the
same thing with another
colleague about an interview
process where she said, you
know, I I feel really taken it
back that I wasn't involved in
this interview process and I
was like, you know, you were
involved in the interview
process and really what she was
saying was she wasn't involved
in the interview process in the
way that she wanted to be
involved in the interview
process and she was actually
in it and so I think often
times with labels, we jump in
and we assume quickly. Um when
you at the very beginning when
I say, recognize, I say like,
how do we ask better questions
and how do we create space to
reflect? Uh huge. I I'm a big
fan of the concept of of not
making assumptions and our
survival instinct, I think is a
big part of why we do that. Um
we're trying to um to protect
ourselves instinctively and
there's there's a good and bad
um you know, to doing just that.
There's also our expectations
um and that's the one that I I
tend to talk about more often
is I'm I'm a big believer that
expectation is a vice um and
I'm a big fan of the quote from
William Shakespeare. Expectation
is a root of all heartache.
Well, we live in a world where
businesses are built on
quarterly expectations um and
when I have expectations with
me and I have a constant uphill
battle cream with people, I'm
like, I don't have expectations
with you. I don't allow myself
to and and there's this
dialogue that has to take place
because I I refuse to do that
to people. Um when oh, cuz that
leaves me too. So, you can
answer that with the question
about that. Like, what do you
recommend for me to do in those
scenarios and two, here's but
here's my next one that I also
want your advice on. People say
that's like what you know, oh,
you're a coach, right? Or
whatever it is. You're a
podcaster and I'm like, you
know that box everybody says to
think outside of? I never found
it and I I don't plan on or
intend to find it. Oh, so if
you're going to try to put me
in it, I'm I'm not going to go
into it. Um you can do your
labels all you want to but just
know that that's not a full
representation of who I am and
what I do, right? That's it's
kind of a a strange reality to
me. So, am I am I if my
fighting an uphill battle and
what what what would you do if
you're in my position? Well,
the the first one, first thing
that I was reminded of was the
late Charlie Munger says like
the secret to happiness and
life is to have low
expectations. So, it's not no
expectations but actually low
expectations. That that was
prompted. The second thing that
came to mind for me is that not
only do we make assumptions
instinctually but we actually
assume some sort of instinctual
wiring. Um I was listening to a
podcast a few weeks ago and it
was like we are predisposed to
assume negative because we
assume for safety, right? So,
if we see this like giant long
thing on the floor, our our
initial assumption is snake,
right? Yeah. And so, we react
but and then it might just be
like a robe cord or whatever it
is. If it's actually a snake,
then like we're in danger. So,
we're we're always better off
like assuming the the negative.
So, we're safer than if we
assume the positive and then it
winds up being the opposite.
So, I just thought that was
really different. Um as far as
the the box goes, I'm not going
to make the same mistake I made
twice. I would say, why is it
that you haven't found the box,
the proverbial box to get out
of the box? I don't want to. So,
I mean, that's the like, that's
the thing is is, you know,
people say, think outside of
the box. I always play with
them like, I, why didn't we
found the box? So, I don't have
to think outside of it. I'm
already outside of it but yeah,
it's it's more of the like
resistance of like, no, like,
please don't put me in that
box. That's is it because you
feel like you're conforming
when you're jumping into this
box. What do you think? It's a
good question. Um so, maybe, I
think some of you serial
entrepreneurs out there may deal
with this or you know, the
entrepreneurs that have
multiple ventures. Um you know,
it's like, when people say,
what do you do? And I'm like,
well, I I help people. Um you
know, no matter what, it could
be opportunity. I said that
I hope for Latinos and Spanish.
You know, it could be first
class business. It could be the
host of Vision Pros live. Uh
could be the founder of
PassionPro.org. Um you know,
there's a lot of things that
exist there. So, a lot of times
when people are asking me, for
instance, as a podcast host,
well, what do you guys get out
of this? You know, I get to
meet some of the coolest
leaders in the world like
Karim Mabonaga first off. So,
there's that too. Um you know,
like certain people recognize
the value of what we do. They
wanna, they want us to build
systems like this for them. Um
but it's kind of that like
the idea of, you know, well,
wait, so are you a coach or or
you know, is this what this is
about? And it's not knowing how
to answer that and you have to
deal with that with helping
children and principals and
schools and all that. So, how
do you say that? I can give you
the the label you. The infamous
distancing question, right? So,
if you were your own best
friend, how would they tell you
to answer that question? If you
were your own best friend, how
would they tell you to answer
that question? I guess I don't
know. I think my best friend
makes fun of me for that too.
You know, it's like, well, he's
like, what do you do? Well, if
you were your own best, your,
your best friend may not know
what you do but if you were
your own man, I just help
people. Like, that's, that's it.
What's wrong with telling
people that? But they don't
like it. They don't feel
comfortable with that, you
know. Right. So, why do you
feel uncomfortable? I feel
comfortable. I feel like I
shouldn't. I feel because I
want to help them. I think
that's really what it is. I
want to help them and so, I
can't really, I, but I know not
to help people who aren't
comfortable. Hmm. So, maybe
what you do is help people who
want to be helped. Correct. I
do that. That's exactly right.
So, yeah, how do you get out?
How do you get out of the
situation where somebody's
already proven though they're
not comfortable, you know, you
can't take more room for that.
It's not your target audience.
It doesn't sound like it. No,
yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I like
that. You know, I don't know
for sure now but it's a it's a
path that I need to continue
to play with and explore and
you're on the you're on the
100% the the vein that I want
to be on whether it's the
right vein or not. That's the
vein I want to be on is just
rather than allowing somebody
to be in my comfort zone. Owning
my comfort zone and and being
okay with the fact that some
people may disagree with what
that's supposed to look like
but I guess I'll go back to the
rocks. Statement on that. Some
people don't like me and some
people don't have good taste.
I mean, I I I said, I said this
internally in my company too
but I didn't start what I was
doing in education to help
people. Like, that's just not
what I'm about. I'm out there.
I want to help the people who
want to be successful. I want
to make sure that that child
who grew up in a low income
household who wants a better
life for themselves and for
their families has every
opportunity that they need to
be able to realize their
potential. Like I that whole
like you can bring a horse to
water but you can't force it to
drink. Like, I'm not interested
in bringing the horse to the
water that's not thirsty. I
want to make sure that the
horses that are out the well
have enough water to be able to
drink. I mean, that I love that
same line. Yeah, you're the
world would be very different
if everyone wanted a certain
level of success and put in the
effort and the work to achieve
it but the the truth of the
matter is that there are so
many people out there who are
desiring for better but they
don't have the resources. They
don't have the knowledge. They
don't have the support. They
don't have the school system
and so just inevitably, they
wind up not realizing their
god-given potential. Yeah, man,
I'm not sure if I'm going to
say this but there was elements
of this show everybody where I
was uncomfortable like, oh,
man, I'm learning things that
are outside my comfort and this
is great. There's elements of
the show where, you know, it
just aligns so well with what I
perceive as freedom and
success in this life. So, I
hope you guys get as much out
of this uh out of this
conversation as I have. We're
going to have action steps uh
below the episode again that
way you guys can connect with
Karim on what he's doing. You
know, he's been out for two
years out there. Uh that that's
about that's what vision's all
about. It's not necessarily
something that is here that
we're looking at in the present
or the past but it could be
since it's come out in the
future. He already has two
books. He's already got a
TED Talk. He's already got lots
of things that he's done to
help out. So, if you if you
felt the vibe, right? If you
felt connected to this, my hope
is that you dive deeper into
seeing what Karim's up to
because maybe that vibe is a
calling to connect in some way
um and serve with Karim and
Karim. So, we're going to be
here today, man. We're going to
wrap this up. Any final
thoughts you want to share
before I cut it off? Oh, man.
Just a gratitude for having me
back on here and I just think
having an opportunity to help
people like learn. I think
that's at the core of it, right?
As as we're growing, everything
around us grows but if we're
not growing, nothing grows and
so it it all really does start
with us as the individual and I
think Gandhi, you know, is be
the change you wish to see in
the world, right? That just is
the hope for that. This, you
created this space for that. I
love that. That can sound
overwhelming to some of you. My
hope is that you turn that
overwhelm into realizing it's
not something you have to do.
It's an opportunity for you and
let's make the most of this
life. Everybody, we'll see on
the next episode. Thank you for
being here today. I'm really
happy that you tuned in to
Vision Pros Live. I'm looking
forward to seeing your
reactions as these episodes
continue to move forward. This
is going to get more and more
fun. We'll have more and more
engagement as well. We'll
have a fantastic discussion.