management consultants who won the Inc 500 award a couple times for rapid growth. That awards for
nice at some point along that path. I started saying, we just kind of know how to do this
better. And in the book, I tell and when we do the pod, the actual podcasts, I'll tell the more
detailed story of it. But basically, I had a wake up moment when I thought, what if we just take all
the managers out of the room, what would happen? What if we send the managers home for a day? Does
more productivity get done or not? It turns out it does. The more productivity does happen when we
have less managing and especially the more complex our environment, the more complex the work that
we're doing, the more managers they are, the more it's true. And so ironically, very little managing
is far superior to a lot of managing. And so that started a career for me 200 plus.