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It is. We're catching up. We'll have the same types of highway systems and crazy driving here soon enough.

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Actually, the Highway 10, Interstate 10 connects our two worlds actually too.

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Oh, so that was interesting. Just get on that highway and go and you're in Texas.

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That's right. I've driven that many times. It's a good drive if you like the desert.

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Yeah, a lot of desert.

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I liked Route 1 better. We did a 41-day road trip up the California coastline when my kids were 1, 3, and 5.

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Well, 6 months, 3 and 5. Route 1 was awesome.

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Oh, that was beautiful. Especially Big Sur, that whole area there. Just stunning.

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Yes, all the Blue Jays at Big Sur. The whole experience was such a fun, fun trip.

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If you're listening, you got to travel. You got to take the time to get to know this planet.

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There's so many cool places to go to see.

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Orange County being a fantastic one. If you're going to live somewhere, that's one of those where it's like, man, it's a good place to go home.

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It's all right. It's not too bad.

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Guys, today with Vision Pros, there's marketers, the people who claim they're marketers and claim they have agencies and claim they know what they're doing.

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And then there's Jack Skeez. I'm just going to say that.

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I was looking through your story and the depths and where you go back to and how much you've done.

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Just studying your pages, too, you can see the beauty of the art and science behind what you've been able to bring to the table, how you go about growth, et cetera.

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You got some Jack Canfield in you. You've got some John Maxwell in you. You got some Peter Linconi.

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I mean, the greats. I was like, man, this is going to be so good. So as we get ready to dive in, if you had to limit down to three resources, what three resources do you recommend for visionaries and leaders right now?

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So I think the first thing I'd say is for leaders and visionaries, you know, thyself.

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Right. And that is I think the thing I've learned over the years is do do the work, do the work with the capital W, whether it's therapy. I did a coaching leadership coaching training program, mindfulness, awareness, whatever you've got to do.

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I've got a book or two. One is Letting Go by David Hawkins, great author.

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And it talks about how to actually sort of let all the other stuff go so you can be in the moment. And lately I've been getting into Gabor Mate, who is a just an amazing writer.

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Right. Yeah, he's an amazing writer and thinker about how we as humans are wired and operate and a lot of great look him up on podcasts. He's he's all over the podcast scene.

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So, Gabor Mate, M-A-T-E.

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Perfect.

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So that's one. Be the best is my second advice. I had a I had a moment when I got kicked out of college, I got kicked out of undergrad. It's not a story I put in the book. I got kicked out of undergrad by my dad's best friend who was the dean of liberal arts and sciences.

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And he said, I don't want to be a philosopher, but there's no money in it. He said, bullshit. Be the best you can be at what you love. And, you know, I think that was that was probably the most phenomenal advice for me I ever got in that way.

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And, and when I finally found something I loved, I'm like, OK, I want to be the best at this. So I think that is really important is that if you're in a situation where you're in a situation where you're not doing what you're supposed to do, you're not doing that.

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That is really important is that if you're going to do something just frickin do it right just just dive in and don't be afraid and that kind of thing.

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And the last one, and you know, I think, look, I get get an MBA if you want to understand a business operates coaching programs, you want to understand how to be a manager, of course, cheap plug for my book Unmanaged.

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Great way to start finding your way there.

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The last is monitor yourself. And I think the most fun thing that's been that entered my life is this this goofy little ring here. It's not a wedding band. It's an aura ring. Oh, you are.

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Oh, yeah. It's a body monitoring ring. And it's part of a whole program that I just sort of like started putting myself in. It's just, you know, I got more fit.

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I paid attention to my sleep. I paid attention to how late I eat at night and started noticing like I don't eat as many carbs at night. I sleep better.

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And just pay attention to yourself. Monitor thyself. Right. I think that's a just because then you can be the best you can be. Right. And that ties into knowing yourself as well.

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Absolutely. And I'll go in reverse order on that. So I saw on your website the timeline that talks about studying Mazzo Mazzo's hierarchy of needs back in 2010. Right.

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And you had all sorts of other mentors you're studying before that, of course, but that that dedication and then taking to the new level with our ring, etc.

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It really validates what you said. And you've shared two philosophies, one that really hurt my life, but one that changed my life for good. You said be the best. And then you said be the best you can be. Right.

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Not being not focusing on being better than others. I spent a lot of my life focused on trying to be better than others. Yeah. And that's a trap. Yeah, it is. It's a huge trap. It's an external reality you can't control.

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You know, but you can focus on what you can do to be your best. And there's so much abundance and joy that can be found in doing that. So I love that you added that little segment in.

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And I'll definitely take a look at some of these resources, including the book. And I think it's a fantastic opportunity. Go ahead. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You know, what you brought. Thanks for calling me out on that.

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I appreciate that. Because I, you know, I hate imprecise speech, though I do it all the time. I think there's an interest. Yeah, I do. So I do leadership coaching. I did that coaching program. I do leadership coaching.

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One of the most common misconceptions when I work with someone, they're like, Tell me how to be the best leader. Right. And the answer is exactly what you said, Jackson, there's no best leader.

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There's only the natural expression of yourself as a leader. We want to maximize that. And it turns out, by the way, if you just do that, you're a rock star. Okay. It's just you don't sound like Jack Welch or some with Steve Jobs or anything like that.

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But you'll be very happy and they'll do a great job. And so I think that that natural expression thing you're getting at is spot on. Yeah, it's huge. And there's something about this name, Jack. I'm feeling it. I'm digging it today.

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We've got Jackson. We've got Michael Jackson. We've worked hard to maintain our status with our names. So, all right, but everybody is welcome in. Your name is not what is guiding your success, by the way. So we look forward to helping everybody that we can on the show.

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And when we come back, we're going to dive into Jack skills vision at large. All right. Welcome in to vision pros live with Jackson Calame. I'm your show host. We'll be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs and guest leaders who are building fantastic visions out there.

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Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome into another great episode of vision pros live. I'm so excited to have Jack skills of agency agile on today. We've got a phenomenal leader to be able to learn from. This is going to be able to touch all areas of business, growth, leadership, happiness, you name it. There's so much we're going to get out of today's show. I'm going to dig as deep as possible with those questions. Now, before I bring them back on stage and we go into that, of course, I'm always going to give the access to those who are new, especially to the resources that are really helping

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me with growth. And so we use those in terms of sponsors. We got two here, one who has become not only a client, but now a strategic partner of ours and Melissa Gray with the lawspot.com. I went through a twenty thousand dollar lawsuit to protect my own brand name at restaurant connect.

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And we won, but we didn't. We spent twenty thousand dollars of money we didn't have to protect a brand name we already had. That doesn't make any sense. Well, why does that happen? I'm a big believer that it's because I wasn't a wise steward at the time. I didn't know what I needed to know about protecting my business. And I was too scared to talk to the attorneys in the world because I don't really like people who are pretentious and condescending and supply and demands in their favor. So I don't really care about you a lot of times. I couldn't find somebody's further from the truth regarding that. And Melissa, I'm

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going after you. You're doing a great job. And I'm going to leave you this, I'm going to leave you this. And so, and so we decided to talk about how we're going to be helping you with your business. If you have any questions, please let me know. I'm going to leave you this. So, we're going to get started now.

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in legal space.

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So I definitely recommend interviewing her

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and checking out what her programs look like.

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In addition to that, there's Recovery Unplugged

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with Andrew Sosa.

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Now there is no plug there.

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I'm not part of their program.

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He was a guest in the show and I love what he's up to.

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If you are not suffering with an addiction of your own,

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a vice of your own, you probably know people who are.

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And this is one of the greatest opportunities

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for help and support for those individuals.

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And you might be the mechanism that helps them.

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I recommend calling this hotline,

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finding out how their programs works,

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telling them about who in your life might be struggling

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and being the person who bridges the gap

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between them and a potential solution.

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One of the things I love about Recovery Unplugged

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is they incorporate music into what they do.

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And I'm a big fan of music.

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My daughter's name is Harmony Melody, by the way.

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Like that's a big thing for my life.

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And I know the value importance

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of belonging to communities.

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Andrew's got a team of over 400 people

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and COVID forced them to go online.

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That was one of the greatest gifts to the world,

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was moving that program online

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so anybody could access to it

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beyond the five states that they're in.

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If you're a Tony Robbins fan,

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I think you'll also be a huge fan of his program.

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He's been to that program 22 years in a row

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and he's gained a lot of knowledge and insight

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and how to influence and help people.

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He works with some incredible individuals.

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And if this even helps one person that I'm grateful for,

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but I know it has the potential to bless at least one person

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in everybody's life that's listening right now,

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if you take advantage of taking a look at it.

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And there's a water project.

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I have never ever been without water in my life.

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I've had the first world privilege,

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even when I lived in Uruguay for two years,

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never had the problem of not having water.

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So when it came across my attention that, man,

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there's millions of people out there

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who don't have access to clean drinking water.

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I was like, I gotta use this microphone

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to kind of rock the stage about that and create awareness.

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We can do something about it.

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Thanks to the water project,

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if you give $5 even to one of these community projects,

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you actually get to see the results

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and the outcome of your contribution

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and the generational impact that this creates

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is absolutely phenomenal.

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When I see these kids celebrating water,

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like my kids celebrate Christmas day,

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I know there's some serious needs there.

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Also imagining those kids leaving school to go get water,

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they interrupt their education

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or the parents have to go three to five kilometers

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just to find a source of water

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that may or may not be safe for their families.

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It just reminds me like, man,

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we have so much opportunity to help in this world

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and all we have to do is either provide a little bit

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of economic advantage to them,

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give a little bit of what we have,

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or if you've been hit by COVID hard

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and the economy is just crushing you,

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my request is that you share the message just like I have.

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If you have another cause though

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that you'd rather see us talk about and you're like,

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man, I wish Jackson would talk about this,

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drop it in the comments, it's not a competition.

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We've got lots of people looking up.

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There's 8 billion people out there.

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The more we do to pull together and to help those

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who are in greater needs than we are,

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I have found more peace, more happiness in my own life,

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but also it's just the right thing to do.

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So without further ado, I'm gonna bring Jack on.

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We're gonna talk about what he's up to

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and we're gonna do our best to uncover some serious wisdom

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and truth to help everybody in what you're doing

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by speaking from our own experiences.

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Jack, skills, thank you so much for joining me

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on Vision Close Live.

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Well, thanks for having me, Jackson.

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Looking forward to this.

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A lot of great questions to go through.

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Yes, sir, absolutely.

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So starting from the top in that regard,

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Jack, what is your vision for the people that you serve?

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I think the, so I work in the management

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and leadership space, obviously, right?

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So I think being a great manager is actually easy.

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And that like making your organization perform

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20 to 50% better, it is actually easy to do,

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but it's not intuitive.

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And in fact, it's mostly the opposite of what we think.

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In fact, there's a lot of the stereotypes in our society

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about a strong manager.

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I'll talk a little bit more about leaders later.

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Another one of my favorite targets in that way.

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But if you ask yourself, do you know a manager

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who doesn't wanna be a great manager

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or a leader who doesn't aspire to have a great organization?

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The answer is no.

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All the ones I know truly deeply wanna be better

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if they can be.

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So it's one of the beautiful things.

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So my lens is I look at organizations

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and I can see what they're not doing right in management.

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And there's this great paradox there,

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which is they're not doing that well

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at managing the organization,

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yet everyone's trying pretty darn hard, right?

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It's not a thing of neglect.

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It's actually a lack of, if you will, skill and knowledge

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about what to do and the like.

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And so I think my vision is that you can do that, right?

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They can do that.

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And there's a massive impact if you can change this.

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They can, both on themselves in terms of feeling good

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about themselves and their impact on the world,

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and also the greater impact into the organization.

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And so I think it's achievable.

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I think a lot of people get into management

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because that's how you get a raise, okay?

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Or that's how I signal my improved status in my role,

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that kind of thing, what I call the firefighter meritocracy.

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We firefight our way to the top of the hill

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and work our way into a job that isn't particularly

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what we were great at, right?

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And it's a whole different set of skills.

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I see you grabbing a book, I'm curious.

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Had to, had to, one of the legends on the subject.

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And I have to bring him up,

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because you're right, it's not intuitive.

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And I appreciate that you talk about that.

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Let's pull up our two things.

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I'm gonna pull up my screen, right?

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So this is our internal version of this book right here.

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The One Minute Manager with Ken Blanchard, right?

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And it scratches the surface

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in a very, very ferociously fun way.

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Like, I mean, it's like hard not to change your mindset

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as you read this book.

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Like, wow, I can simplify

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and be so much more effective very fast

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because of the principles taught in that,

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what is it, 100 pages of large print font?

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00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:14,960
Oh, but.

210
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:16,160
It's a genius book.

211
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,680
That and Who Moved My Cheese,

212
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,960
both are books I would aspire to write

213
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:22,360
as my second book for sure.

214
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:23,480
Yeah.

215
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:24,320
Absolutely.

216
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,440
And so they've, you know, it's mathematicians.

217
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:28,600
That's how I look at it,

218
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,880
is they're writing formulas on the board for years

219
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,560
and we get to build on the backs of these giants, right?

220
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:35,440
And what's there, and you're that giant too,

221
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,360
I'm looking at now, and now I've got you on my radar.

222
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,520
I'm like, oh, fun, right?

223
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,560
He's got all these new formulas I haven't seen before.

224
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:43,720
This is gonna be awesome.

225
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:45,720
And I'm gonna broaden a little bit.

226
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,360
You may not see yourself as a manager,

227
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,520
but if you have a family, you're a manager.

228
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,420
If you have a community that you wanna belong to,

229
00:15:53,420 --> 00:15:54,640
you're a manager.

230
00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:56,400
Well, there's opportunities for it

231
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,000
and it can change the scope of your relationship,

232
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:00,920
change the quality of your relationships

233
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:05,120
by diving into the principles of management.

234
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,280
So what's your vision for you, Jack?

235
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,680
What do you see for yourself on the horizon?

236
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,880
Well, you know, I think I could spend a lot of time

237
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:15,520
talking about it, but I spent a lot of my career

238
00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,400
bouncing around and I talk about it

239
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,000
in the beginning of the book, I call it the pinball.

240
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,760
I had, you know, there's moments

241
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,080
when I tried to be a plumber, right?

242
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:26,600
There are moments when, you know,

243
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,200
I worked in aerospace company

244
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,640
and I would bounce from thing to thing,

245
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,320
you know, usually two years, five years

246
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,080
in those roles and the like.

247
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,480
And I never really knew where I was going and the like.

248
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,520
And then all of a sudden this sort of came together

249
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,160
about 20 years ago for me and I thought, yeah, I'm here.

250
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,840
I think that I've always, and by the way,

251
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:50,480
the other piece I've always wondered about

252
00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,380
is that you talk to people and they say,

253
00:16:52,380 --> 00:16:55,880
oh, I have a vision for my personal vision

254
00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,280
of what I wanna be and do and I never had that, right?

255
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,680
And a lot of those people have, especially these days,

256
00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:07,200
which is wonderful, the younger folks, younger than me,

257
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,040
have this idea that they wanna make the world better

258
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,960
and even in what they do as their job,

259
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:14,920
as their work, their profession,

260
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,120
or if they're an entrepreneur running a company,

261
00:17:18,120 --> 00:17:19,840
they wanna make the world better.

262
00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,400
And I think I found that in myself in fact,

263
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,160
and in that, you know, work,

264
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,440
we talked about work-life balance and I don't think,

265
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,320
I get the idea behind that phrase,

266
00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,680
but it's a false dichotomy.

267
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:36,520
And I think you're just getting at that

268
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,360
is that what happens in work,

269
00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:41,540
the patterns we exhibit in work

270
00:17:41,540 --> 00:17:44,260
are patterns we exhibit in life, right?

271
00:17:44,260 --> 00:17:47,320
And the effects of work and the effects of life

272
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,640
actually feed over into work and vice versa and the like.

273
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,160
And so, and we define ourselves in so many ways

274
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:55,560
by what we do and the like.

275
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And the thing that the greater good,

276
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,760
and I think the thing that touched me

277
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,520
is that essentially work is so wired into us

278
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,240
in our American society for sure,

279
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,600
but I think in a lot of societies,

280
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,080
the idea of work is this greater good, right?

281
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:15,200
And the, you know, almost,

282
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,520
I always think back to our Puritan,

283
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,560
American Puritan heritage, you know,

284
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:24,560
which is this sort of doing good work brings oneself closer

285
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,060
to one's God, you know, whatever that is,

286
00:18:27,060 --> 00:18:28,680
but that's where we find ourselves

287
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:30,400
is in doing the work.

288
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,080
And I think that that's true.

289
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,320
It's a truism about humans, right?

290
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,760
It's the sensation of accomplishing something

291
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:40,960
and accomplishing something meaningful

292
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:42,360
and all those sorts of things.

293
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,280
So here's my point.

294
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,800
My vision is that you bring it home, okay?

295
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,800
What happens at work comes home with you.

296
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,560
And if you can make workplaces better,

297
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,060
and that's what I do, right?

298
00:18:55,060 --> 00:18:56,800
If you can make workplaces better,

299
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,520
it means you're making people happier

300
00:18:58,520 --> 00:18:59,920
and you're making them better people

301
00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:02,800
and they're better able to manage the rest of their life.

302
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,560
And through this one leverage point,

303
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,120
you can say you want people to have happier families

304
00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:10,800
and be better parents and all that kind of thing.

305
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:15,640
And that's its own minefield and training ground as well.

306
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,800
Like telling people how they should parent and the like.

307
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,160
But I think you're getting at something very important,

308
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,400
which is if you learn how to be a manager,

309
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,880
a collaborator, a facilitator,

310
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,440
all these skills that are management skills

311
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,760
are really human skills, okay?

312
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,080
They're just people there at work, right?

313
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,640
And you bring home not only the competence around that,

314
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,520
but you bring home the joy, okay?

315
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,960
You bring home the ability to see

316
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:45,760
your children's learning journeys

317
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:50,320
or the ability to deal with the inevitable conflict

318
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,800
and collaboration with your partner, that kind of thing.

319
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,200
And so in that way, my vision,

320
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,040
my personal visions, I'm actually making the world better

321
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:01,800
in a way I never imagined,

322
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:03,880
but I'm able to make the world better

323
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,880
by helping people work better together.

324
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,280
And that flows through to everything else.

325
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:10,120
I love it.

326
00:20:10,120 --> 00:20:11,400
I believe it.

327
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,200
I think there's tremendous potential

328
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,960
for both of our visions to be in absolute harmony.

329
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:18,800
And that's what's cool.

330
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,120
And I think it's there.

331
00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:22,800
I say that as a musician because you can play the same note,

332
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,320
but if your guitar's a little bit off,

333
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:25,560
it can actually have a discord,

334
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,280
woo, you know, effect real fast.

335
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,280
But I love what you're doing.

336
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:30,680
I love what you're bringing to the table

337
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:32,200
of our vision as well.

338
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:37,120
At First Class Businesses to create a full appreciation

339
00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:42,040
for family and personal wellbeing in the workplace,

340
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:43,880
in it, not outside of it.

341
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:45,440
I'm a single father of four.

342
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:46,640
I don't have the luxury.

343
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:47,480
I mean, I'm so-

344
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

345
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,640
And I say luxury, so many times the luxuries of our life

346
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,480
are the vices that actually hold us back from what's best.

347
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,360
So I couldn't agree with you more

348
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:02,000
that if you can create an environment

349
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,840
where we spend a lot of our time at work

350
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:09,560
in such that it recognizes the value and builds us up,

351
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,960
we can feel good about what we're doing,

352
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,240
the byproduct of those, we go home with no complaints.

353
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,200
We go home ready to just receive more goodness in our life.

354
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:19,520
So I think it's beautiful.

355
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,840
And I can see the philosopher in you 100%.

356
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,480
Like Puritan, teach me.

357
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:24,320
Okay, good.

358
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:25,160
I got the context.

359
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,280
I was like, good, I can remember this now.

360
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:29,960
Let's dive into the opposite though,

361
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,920
because we've both probably been there and experienced it.

362
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,080
What's the worst leadership experience that you've ever had?

363
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,200
Most of them, okay?

364
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:45,440
And I probably, in a way, because of how I grew up, okay?

365
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,000
I grew up in a home that is not like what I'm describing

366
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,640
with a happy, well-balanced family and somewhat in ruins.

367
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:57,920
And I felt terribly abandoned for many years.

368
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,040
That gave me a very cynical attitude towards leadership.

369
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,240
I mean, partly because parents are leaders

370
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,360
and inside the family unit typically.

371
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,280
I think the worst experiences I've had,

372
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,080
and I've had so many of them,

373
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,600
and is when leaders think that charisma

374
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,600
and dominance accomplish something,

375
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,720
like they make a difference.

376
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,840
And this is, if I want to explain this maybe,

377
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,400
I've been watching these documentaries

378
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,560
on church leaders gone bad and churches gone bad.

379
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,120
Like I think it's Hillstone is one of them, right?

380
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:33,040
Or Hillside, whatever it's called.

381
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:38,040
And where just these very persuasive, dominant,

382
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,000
just talk, talk, talk kind of thing.

383
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,440
And with the idea, it's that opiate of the masses thing,

384
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,000
right, is that it pushes everyone into submission

385
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,880
and you just follow me and do what I say

386
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:52,720
and that kind of thing.

387
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,840
And that's not leadership, that's horrible.

388
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,600
And I'm gonna do a quick shout out

389
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,000
just to end this whole answer to say,

390
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,320
I wanna give a shout out to the management consultants

391
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,520
as well who are horrible about this, right?

392
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,280
Didactically preaching things

393
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:10,960
and then not implementing them

394
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,880
or turning them into disasters and the like.

395
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,440
That's another form of leadership, thought leadership

396
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,560
that is often messed up horribly.

397
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,080
Right.

398
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:21,080
There's a lot to it.

399
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,120
Now, I'm gonna dive in a little bit of a sensitive subject

400
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:25,800
cause I have to take a little bit.

401
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,120
You mentioned the challenge of family.

402
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:30,320
Oh, I'm gonna on like the upbringing aspect there.

403
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,240
I can relate to, I grew up in two homes.

404
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,360
I know one was love, one was the opposite.

405
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:37,960
And I saw that you, at the same time,

406
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:39,920
you dedicated your book to your father.

407
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,600
And so I was like, man, there's a dynamic here

408
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,000
that I wanna uncover if you'll allow us to.

409
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,080
Was he always a great leader?

410
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,120
Was there a challenge there?

411
00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:54,680
Feel free to reveal what you feel is best for the audience.

412
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,160
Yeah, I think the thing I would counsel

413
00:23:58,160 --> 00:23:59,920
is that for a lot of my life,

414
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,320
for a good period of my youth, age 13 to 19,

415
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,280
I thought my dad was the biggest problem in the world.

416
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,240
And then my mom passed away when I was about 23 years old.

417
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:13,240
And then I thought, oh my God,

418
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,200
well, how much time do I have left with my dad?

419
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,320
So I spent a lot of time with him.

420
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,720
And then I flipped again to another mode

421
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:20,640
where I was like, you know,

422
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,160
but I remember all those bad things and the like,

423
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:28,160
and then flipped back before he passed away

424
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,120
to realizing that he was a man,

425
00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:35,280
he was a college professor, university economist.

426
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:36,960
He ended up running the department,

427
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,400
but he was one of these people

428
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,840
who was very, very patient, very calm.

429
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:47,440
He had the work ethic of that sort of puritan work ethic

430
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,960
kind of thing, which I go into work every day,

431
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:51,640
I get my stuff done.

432
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,960
He was an incredibly fair person.

433
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,120
And I think the thing,

434
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:59,760
every day I see more and more of his imprint on me.

435
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,840
And it's humbling in that way is that

436
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,840
to have such beauty inside of him and yet to be,

437
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,440
I mean, it was leadership in a way,

438
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,560
a quiet leadership of sorts that was quite amazing.

439
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,600
I'm gonna tell a quick little anecdote about him as well,

440
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,000
which is kind of cool.

441
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,360
It's hard to hire great people in an economics department.

442
00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:27,240
And he was in a second or third tier school,

443
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,200
Northern Illinois University,

444
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,480
sort of the second tier state school sort of thing.

445
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,320
And the thing he found in the 70s

446
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,480
when he was running the department, 70s and 80s,

447
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,960
was that he could get great people

448
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,320
as long as they didn't look like him.

449
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,240
And he was hiring people from Korea,

450
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,720
scholars from Afghanistan, women.

451
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,840
Women were rare in economics back then, blacks, whatever.

452
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,360
And when they have the economics department

453
00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:00,960
summer picnic every year, which is a potluck, right?

454
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,880
It was like this smorgasbord from the UN.

455
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,560
It was just amazing the mix of foods and the like.

456
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,200
There's no potato salad.

457
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,760
We had curries from Afghanistan and Korean barbecue

458
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,760
and all these things and just really, really wonderful mix.

459
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,480
And he saw past people in that way

460
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,960
and saw to who they are and what they did.

461
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,480
And they were great people,

462
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,600
played racquetball and tennis with some of them.

463
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,920
And there was one of those lessons,

464
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,480
I didn't even notice it for what it was

465
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,440
because that's how I grew up, right?

466
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:38,160
So, yeah, I think a lot of the things in the book

467
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:39,760
or things that I learned later

468
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,480
were things that I'd learned from my dad, just innately,

469
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,920
right, or unconsciously kind of thing.

470
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,760
And that's hence the dedication.

471
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:47,920
And he always believed in me.

472
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,760
So I love him for that forever.

473
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:51,640
That's amazing.

474
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,680
And it does overlap the next question

475
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,360
and quite a big regard.

476
00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:59,840
That's often true of our worst leadership experiences,

477
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,640
not always, but many times they kind of go hand in hand

478
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,920
with the best experiences.

479
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,120
Let's not limit it to that though.

480
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:10,120
What's the best leadership experience that you've ever had?

481
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,840
You know, I picked two.

482
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,760
I mentioned that I got kicked out of college

483
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,400
in the sophomore year.

484
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,960
And I decided I was gonna go work at a Del Monte factory

485
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,280
that made creamed corn and peas, okay?

486
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,800
And I'd done summer work for them for years

487
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:31,640
and stuff like that.

488
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,480
But I'm gonna go get a full-time job there.

489
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,760
And there was a plumber job open.

490
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:37,400
And so I had the whole summer to prove

491
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,720
that I was actually a great plumber and mechanic

492
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,840
and all, and I was handy guy, I'd rebuild cars.

493
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,480
And so it really wasn't that hard of a job.

494
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,360
I got to the end of the summer and Chuck Hanby,

495
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:50,760
Chuck has passed away since unfortunately,

496
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,520
Chuck Hanby came to me one night

497
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,720
and I was on the night shift and he said,

498
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,720
I've got bad news for you and good news.

499
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,600
The bad news is you don't belong here.

500
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,120
And the good news is you should go back to college.

501
00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:06,760
And what a gift.

502
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:07,920
I mean, it was one of those things

503
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,880
where he was able to have the, he's a great guy.

504
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,360
We really enjoyed each other.

505
00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:16,040
I didn't do a horrible job, but he actually said,

506
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,440
there's something bigger here

507
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,560
that I should be thinking about, right?

508
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,080
And that is what's right for this person, okay?

509
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:24,560
Where does this person belong?

510
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,800
Do they belong here or not, right?

511
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,160
Can they serve a greater good?

512
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,120
And I could just as well dedicate the book

513
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:33,680
to Chuck in that way as an example.

514
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,200
He just about who Chuck is for those who don't know.

515
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:37,320
I'm in that bucket.

516
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,440
So Chuck was a supervisor at the Dell Mountain plant

517
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,800
and he was my boss and reported directly to him.

518
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,920
And just another guy, they called them white hats

519
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,280
because everyone had to wear hats.

520
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,400
And the white hats are all the established managers

521
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,880
and the green hats for all the laborer managers.

522
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,200
That was a green hat and that kind of thing.

523
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,160
So it was this hat hierarchy going on.

524
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,520
So Chuck had this ability to recognize

525
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,800
that you weren't meant for that position long-term.

526
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,240
Knew from his perspective where you should go.

527
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,640
And it sounds like he was pretty direct with you

528
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,160
about where you should go with that.

529
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,040
But how did you know that that was the right call,

530
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:23,880
the right move?

531
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,840
Why didn't you get mad and say, well, forget that.

532
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,280
I'm meant to be here.

533
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,040
I was totally pissed, of course.

534
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:32,240
I was totally pissed.

535
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,560
No, but then I woke up like two days late

536
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:35,480
because that was basically

537
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,960
and don't come back tomorrow kind of thing.

538
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:42,960
And two days smoking a bunch of weed and drinking beers

539
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:44,800
and playing pool with my buddies.

540
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,080
And I woke up one morning and I thought,

541
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,440
well, fuck, I got nothing else to do.

542
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,480
So I might as well try and get back into school

543
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,760
and do the community college route and everything.

544
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,800
And eventually I got that.

545
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,080
It was a pretty good idea on his part.

546
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:58,360
Okay, so cool.

547
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,280
So he didn't even give you the option.

548
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:01,440
It was done.

549
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,520
It was a very direct, like here's,

550
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,560
it's just, you have a new road to figure out

551
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,880
and then you followed that road.

552
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,280
So even if you had a little bit of a stumbling process

553
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,920
to get there, you know, it's often what happens.

554
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,320
It's not always a linear, like, okay, great.

555
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,280
Thank you, God of wisdom.

556
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,440
Let me just go and be perfect from here on out.

557
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,120
That's really neat.

558
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,480
And I became a computer scientist is what I did.

559
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,280
Computer science and robotics and the like,

560
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:29,560
which I didn't do any of that anymore.

561
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,520
I didn't even do it for a couple of years when I came out,

562
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,240
but it sent me on that path, right?

563
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,960
And so forever grateful for that pinball bounce,

564
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:39,800
if you will.

565
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:40,640
Yeah.

566
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:41,920
I see that.

567
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,800
All right, diving into, I think this is our best question.

568
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,880
If this was the last chance that you had to speak,

569
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:51,240
this is it.

570
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:52,200
This is the last piece of wisdom.

571
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,160
What powerful lesson can other visionaries learn

572
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:55,560
from your experience, Jack?

573
00:30:55,560 --> 00:31:00,560
But I'm gonna nod in the way that it might sound,

574
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,400
it may sound like a crass commercial answer,

575
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,400
which is I'm gonna mention the book, right?

576
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,960
And my advice for a visionary is write a book,

577
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,880
not for the reason that all the blogs tell you

578
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,920
to write a book and all the books tell you to write a book,

579
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:17,760
which is that you market yourself by that

580
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:18,680
and all that kind of thing.

581
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,400
That is true.

582
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,480
But one of my good friends and author, Blair Enns,

583
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,920
which if you work in the agency space like I do

584
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:30,480
and the small business projects,

585
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,160
digital projects and all that kind of thing,

586
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,680
he has a great book called Win Without Pitching, right?

587
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,520
Which is a great way to manage customers

588
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:39,880
and all that kind of thing.

589
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,800
And he's become a good friend on the conference circuit

590
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,640
that we're both on and the like.

591
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,560
But Blair made a post on his LinkedIn the other day

592
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:52,280
and he said, you think you're a visionary, write a book, okay?

593
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,160
When you get done with the book,

594
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,960
if you can tie together all your ideas in 50,000 words

595
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,440
and it makes sense, okay?

596
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,920
Then you can call yourself a visionary.

597
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,560
And what he's reacting to is a lot of people are out there

598
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,880
and I'm sure you get them on your LinkedIn feed

599
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,000
or wherever else.

600
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,240
You post something like this podcast

601
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:17,240
and some visionary leader type person weighs in

602
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:22,240
with their 25 words about what leadership means, okay?

603
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,160
And it's just like, okay, fine, whatever.

604
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:30,240
You don't have a whole integrated way

605
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:31,920
of thinking about this, right?

606
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,120
And a vision has to be actually, I think in that way,

607
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:36,800
a gospel and the like, right?

608
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,000
It needs to have a completeness to it

609
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,080
and that you've thought through what it is

610
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,360
to actually have the whole conversation

611
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,880
on every single dimension of it.

612
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,680
And I mean, it is again, back to the powerful lesson is

613
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,480
you wanna be a visionary, write that book

614
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,320
and you'll really learn what you have to be thinking about

615
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,000
and how to present it and all that kind of thing.

616
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:03,760
It's powerful.

617
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,060
That's a powerful lesson.

618
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,800
I will acknowledge gracefully

619
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:14,800
the controversial nature of that lesson.

620
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,280
I would say visionaries who hear that,

621
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,760
take it in two strides, right?

622
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,680
There are, when Michael Jordan was cut

623
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,200
from his basketball team, right?

624
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:28,960
His coach basically told him,

625
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,280
you wanna be a basketball player,

626
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:31,640
like it's not happening here.

627
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:32,960
You're not gonna make it.

628
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,680
You don't have what it takes.

629
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,720
That's what I hear when I hear Blair in thought process

630
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,280
on until you get here, you're not truly a visionary.

631
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,840
And I'm here to also say like, F that.

632
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,640
Every single person on earth is a visionary

633
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,760
but what Stephen King said was

634
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,260
talent is cheaper than table salt.

635
00:33:55,260 --> 00:33:59,720
What separates those who are great from those who are not,

636
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:00,960
and I can't remember that exact phrase,

637
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:01,840
but I'm not knowing that.

638
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,400
Those who are great, those who are not,

639
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,080
it's a whole lot of hard work.

640
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,360
Back to your capital W, right?

641
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,080
If you want your vision to come to fruition, right?

642
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,640
It has a very, very strong potential to become a pipe dream.

643
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,020
If you're not careful, your vision will become a pipe dream.

644
00:34:17,020 --> 00:34:20,600
You have to carefully, articulately, intentionally build.

645
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,840
And I think that's the point behind what Blair is pointing

646
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,380
out is it's not gonna serve everybody

647
00:34:27,380 --> 00:34:31,280
unless you really, really build it on a strong foundation.

648
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,160
And what better way to do that than trying

649
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,760
to piece together a book that publishers

650
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,280
and others scrutinize and are able to say like, wow,

651
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:40,720
what a masterpiece.

652
00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:41,560
Yeah, yeah.

653
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,680
Now you're absolutely, you know, you're right.

654
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,520
I love the way you reframed that a lot.

655
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:46,560
Yeah.

656
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,840
You know, and I, I'll throw in another thing too,

657
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,840
which is I knew what I wanted to write back in 2009.

658
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,720
And I started, and when I finally figured,

659
00:34:56,720 --> 00:34:58,400
I mapped it out in diagrams,

660
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,440
all that stuff you're supposed to do.

661
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,800
And I thought, shit, I've never done this before.

662
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:04,640
Not the book.

663
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,680
I mean, I've never managed that way before.

664
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,360
I thought, I can't write a book on managing

665
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:10,920
if I've never done it before.

666
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,320
I mean, I've never done this.

667
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,280
And so that's, that's why the book,

668
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,220
the book basically took 10 years of waiting

669
00:35:17,220 --> 00:35:20,400
to see if I was, if I was right about this, right?

670
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,720
We did it with a hundred organizations plus,

671
00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:26,080
before I said, okay, maybe it's real.

672
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,120
I'm not a real confident guy.

673
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,360
And then I said, then now I can write a book.

674
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,960
And then, then I actually understood it even better.

675
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,260
So I think you're absolutely right to work,

676
00:35:36,260 --> 00:35:37,560
do the work first.

677
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,480
But, and you're, you know, there's so much value in this.

678
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,400
And again, in both concepts of this,

679
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:43,680
what I'm saying is don't give up.

680
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,120
But what he's saying is, is don't pretend you're there.

681
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,040
You know, like you got work to do to get there.

682
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,240
And I agree wholeheartedly with that.

683
00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:55,640
I'm gonna just have a softer platform to get people on,

684
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,160
to talk about the essence of the vision.

685
00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:59,000
But you're right.

686
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,440
You know what was one of the strangest things to see?

687
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,760
And it's one of the most painful realities

688
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,720
is when I go back and look at my visionaries

689
00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:09,480
six months later or go forward,

690
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,400
and I see they haven't moved.

691
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:12,240
Yeah.

692
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:14,460
I see they're in the same position.

693
00:36:14,460 --> 00:36:17,080
I said, nothing's changed about their digital presence

694
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:18,840
that they didn't like when they came on my show.

695
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:19,760
Nobody does.

696
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,320
Ask somebody, tell somebody their website's great.

697
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,840
I can tell you 99% of what they're gonna say is,

698
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,480
oh, well we're working on it.

699
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,360
Oh, we've got updates to make to it.

700
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,560
It's the impossible compliment.

701
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,480
It's telling somebody their website's great

702
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,840
because it's a representation of our past.

703
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,480
But I see so many visionaries come to this process.

704
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,320
I go back and look at where they're at now,

705
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:43,640
and they're still spinning their wheels

706
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,640
with the same problem or an iteration of it

707
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,320
that's nowhere near where they could be

708
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,120
if they get out of their own way.

709
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:51,940
Yeah, yeah.

710
00:36:51,940 --> 00:36:52,780
That's painful.

711
00:36:52,780 --> 00:36:54,680
So Blair's, again, I don't think he's coming at people

712
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,320
as much as to them with a very quick answer of,

713
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:58,840
if you're gonna do it, do it right.

714
00:36:58,840 --> 00:36:59,940
I'll double down with you.

715
00:36:59,940 --> 00:37:01,180
You're right, it is hard.

716
00:37:01,180 --> 00:37:03,360
This is the power marketing funnel.

717
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,860
It's huge inspiration for us,

718
00:37:05,860 --> 00:37:08,680
but I've been trying to publish the book,

719
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,560
the marketing funnel is wrong for a couple of years.

720
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,160
And the first time I designed this, I was wrong.

721
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:16,840
Once Cynthia designed it,

722
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,240
but I gotta give her full credit on the design.

723
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:20,080
Nice job.

724
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,840
My design was off, but when she brought my design to life

725
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:28,600
and I looked at it, I went, oh gosh, that doesn't work.

726
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,120
That doesn't make sense at all.

727
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,640
I was an outline guy and my outline was only a fraction

728
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,360
of what that was supposed to be.

729
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:37,600
She brought the design to life

730
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,240
and I could see more clearly how wrong I was.

731
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:41,880
And then I was like, okay, we need to switch this here,

732
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:43,200
switch this here, switch this here, switch this here.

733
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,760
And we started to just continue to revamp.

734
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:50,580
And I realized the value of working with designers

735
00:37:50,580 --> 00:37:54,000
to bring your verbal poetic self to life

736
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,440
and realize, oh man, my poetry's not as smart

737
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:58,040
as I thought it was.

738
00:37:58,040 --> 00:37:59,560
Well, and that's the same thing

739
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,400
with if I'm gonna advise on how to manage.

740
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,360
To be frank, I knew what I wanted to write,

741
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:08,640
but I didn't, working with a hundred organizations,

742
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,680
I would start hearing back from people

743
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,840
how they thought of it, right?

744
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,560
Not how I thought of, but how they thought of.

745
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,080
One of our great, good friend of mine now, especially,

746
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,680
he had actually said to me, he said,

747
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,480
I take what I used to do.

748
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,020
I think about how would I deal with this?

749
00:38:24,020 --> 00:38:25,520
And then I think about the opposite.

750
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,480
I try to do that as closely as possible

751
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:28,920
and I'm usually right.

752
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,120
And so it's literally that I was like, oh yeah,

753
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:33,760
it's very contrarian and the like.

754
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:38,440
So yeah, I think you learn a lot from the people you affect

755
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,840
when you're on that sort of actualizing

756
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,280
your vision journey as well.

757
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:45,160
That's correct.

758
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,360
And we got LinkedIn pulled up here.

759
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,000
Jack's got great content on there.

760
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,600
I do highly recommend giving the follow,

761
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:55,400
going and connecting with them on there.

762
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,120
We're gonna dive into this concept

763
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,040
of how do you manage less

764
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,400
in order to achieve more a little bit.

765
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,640
It's one of the things I gathered from the form submission.

766
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:09,240
And if you wanna take that in a different direction, Jack,

767
00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:12,000
my goal with the next seven minutes or so

768
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,320
is to make sure I give you the space

769
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,680
to really provide what you feel is best for us.

770
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:21,680
You have me as strange loss for words actually.

771
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,760
There's decades of opportunity in that to sort through.

772
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,600
So I'm not surprised by that.

773
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,840
But in terms of the first question then,

774
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,280
I gathered this concept that if you're managing less

775
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:38,640
then you can achieve more.

776
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:40,640
I gathered that from what you submitted.

777
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:41,480
Is there truth to that?

778
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:44,880
And if so, I think that's a great idea.

779
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,000
And if so, what are some of those secret sauce items

780
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,480
people can bring to the table?

781
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:51,360
Yeah, thank you very much.

782
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,080
Sorry, I didn't follow the prompt, my bad.

783
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,240
I asked like 30 questions in one, so you're good.

784
00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:57,600
Yeah, yeah.

785
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,080
So one of the key, I said that idea behind the book,

786
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,000
Unmanaged is this idea that it's provocative.

787
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:04,280
So every, if you do a book,

788
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,280
you want a provocative title, right?

789
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,920
And the idea is like, oh, my team is unmanaged.

790
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,000
Like someone would respond, oh my God,

791
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:12,760
your team's unmanaged.

792
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,600
And in fact, my unmanaged team

793
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,000
is outperforming your managed team, okay?

794
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:20,800
And that's a very common reality.

795
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:22,240
And we've proven it in,

796
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:24,800
like with all the organizations we've worked with.

797
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:27,280
So then the question is, well,

798
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,640
what does it mean to unmanage?

799
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,400
And it doesn't mean not managing at all,

800
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,120
but there's an implied idea here,

801
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,000
which we call the manager tax.

802
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,640
And that goes as very simple.

803
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,880
So I was a think tank researcher

804
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,600
in management sciences for many, many years.

805
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,280
And one of the key ideas in business research

806
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,400
is the intensity of management.

807
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,320
In other words, how much managerial activity there is

808
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,680
in an organization, okay,

809
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:03,000
is inversely proportional to how much productivity there is.

810
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:04,040
And so what's that saying?

811
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,120
It's like a little balance beam scale sort of thing,

812
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,720
is that the more I push on managing,

813
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:14,000
the less productivity happens, okay?

814
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,200
And it's a very strange paradox

815
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:18,520
because most managers,

816
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,480
if you ask who is responsible for productivity,

817
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,880
they will say, I am, I am.

818
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:25,040
And the reality is,

819
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,280
is management is not a productivity function,

820
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,920
it's a productivity management function.

821
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,480
Productivity comes from the team.

822
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,320
And this sort of understanding that,

823
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,600
okay, well then that means maybe I need to be careful

824
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,000
about when I'm interacting with the team.

825
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,360
Maybe I need to be careful

826
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,120
about what managerial actions I take.

827
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,760
That's the question that we ask

828
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:49,560
that managers start considering.

829
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,160
And we've got guidelines in the book for,

830
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,880
there are key moments when you should be managing

831
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:58,720
and there are certain things you should manage

832
00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:00,120
in those moments.

833
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:01,080
There are only four of them,

834
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:02,800
so it's nice and easy in that way.

835
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,520
And then the rest of the moments,

836
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,440
in general, if you just lean back

837
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,960
and let people self-manage, they do a lot better, right?

838
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:14,000
And we've proven this.

839
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,320
So we've proven that if you do these,

840
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,160
if you do two of these really well,

841
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,440
and then the third one is about how to lean back,

842
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:24,200
and the fourth one is about how to mentor and support

843
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:28,680
teams outperform teams that are traditionally managed.

844
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,280
So I'd say, sort of a little bit of a cookbook,

845
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:32,720
it's a personal cookbook.

846
00:42:32,720 --> 00:42:36,560
It's not about how to change an organization, right?

847
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,000
And that's organizational change is the whole bigger thing.

848
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,240
It's what we do as Agency Agile

849
00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:45,240
and in our consulting and coaching practices.

850
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:47,440
But the book enables you as an individual.

851
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,080
And like I said in our earlier parts,

852
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,960
what I want is I want managers,

853
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,040
individual managers and leaders to be able to be better

854
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,440
at their day-to-day interactions.

855
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,160
And that's something you can actually do

856
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:03,200
without changing your organization.

857
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,440
You can just become a better manager.

858
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:07,680
That's awesome.

859
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,280
And you mentioned Goodreads and a promotion

860
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,280
that's going on right now for the free ebook, correct?

861
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:14,680
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

862
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:16,880
And we'll probably be running this for a while.

863
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:18,760
So Goodreads is a cool site.

864
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,840
And I feel like an idiot

865
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:22,680
because I didn't know about this, okay?

866
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:23,520
But the-

867
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:24,360
Well, thanks a lot, you found it.

868
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,200
Wasn't I just, I got spammed by,

869
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,640
I'm like, what's this Goodreads thing?

870
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,680
We sell our book on Amazon,

871
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:32,520
which is the only place people buy books,

872
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,080
it seems these days.

873
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,960
And Goodreads is some sort of adjunct of Amazon.

874
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,160
It's sort of a reader community and the like.

875
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,320
And you don't have to sign up.

876
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,640
You just sort of log in with your Amazon login

877
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,280
and boom, you're in and you've got a Goodreads account.

878
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,160
And you can do book reviews and join groups about,

879
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,240
if you like science fiction, like I do,

880
00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:55,760
join the science fiction club

881
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,120
and people talk about the latest books they're reading.

882
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,480
And it's a way to find great books and the like.

883
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,840
And for authors like me,

884
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,640
they offer this service where you can do a giveaway.

885
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,440
And so, and they publicize it within Goodreads and the like.

886
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,920
And so I'm doing a hundred ebook giveaway.

887
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,600
And yeah, for the next 10 days or something like that,

888
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,800
if you go into Goodreads, which is really easy to do,

889
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,760
and then click, find my book on managed

890
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,640
and click want to read.

891
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,560
You put it on your sort of like list, if you will,

892
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,680
want to read and then they run the sweepstakes

893
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,920
or whatever, you know, at the end of 10 days

894
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,000
and we give away a hundred copies.

895
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,120
But I had a little bit of challenge with the signup,

896
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:38,960
but I got it.

897
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:40,880
Okay, so we're gonna work that link out

898
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,240
so that the action steps is a little easier for others.

899
00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:44,960
But I did manage to make it in.

900
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,120
I was stalling a little bit for you.

901
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:48,640
I was like, all right, I gotta find this.

902
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,040
So I got in now, here's the book

903
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,800
and I can add my Amazon account.

904
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:55,640
Is that where?

905
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:56,960
Yeah, that, yeah.

906
00:44:58,400 --> 00:44:59,920
Okay, I'll get that done.

907
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:01,280
And I got to know my password and stuff.

908
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:05,320
So if you're better with your Amazon account than I am,

909
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,840
and you have that all connected and ready to go,

910
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,400
then you can get this added in for free, correct?

911
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:12,680
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

912
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:13,880
It doesn't cost anything.

913
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,880
And you know, you can turn off all the notifications

914
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,080
and stuff like that, but it's actually a very,

915
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:19,920
very cool site.

916
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:21,360
I poked around, I'm like, wow.

917
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:22,400
I love Goodreads.

918
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:23,240
I'm a big fan.

919
00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:24,640
I didn't have that connection.

920
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:25,680
We're gonna get that sorted out.

921
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:27,600
That way everybody, when you go to the action steps,

922
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,000
you'll be able to get in and get that book easily.

923
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:31,960
And then of course, we'll have all the other links

924
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,360
in there too for action steps that you can take with Jack.

925
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,040
You know, it's funny, this management concept

926
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:41,480
of managing less, I'm also, again, I'm a big fan of it.

927
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:46,280
I've seen the value of shifting from,

928
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:50,000
again, the overbearing manager that debilitates people.

929
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,400
You know, it can create fear within people.

930
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,440
Fear doesn't breed action.

931
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,080
Fear, you know, it breeds safety.

932
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:00,280
And you might get people to do like the basic

933
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,440
necessary elements to maintain their job,

934
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,840
but they usually won't expand beyond that.

935
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,360
And they'll usually only do most of it

936
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:11,600
because it's scary to take risk in an environment like that.

937
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,960
You know, I'll tell you a fun little side fact

938
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,320
because I learned so much through working

939
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,420
with all these companies and all the research I did

940
00:46:18,420 --> 00:46:20,040
for the book as well.

941
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,300
One is you can judge how good of a manager is

942
00:46:22,300 --> 00:46:24,840
by asking their people, right?

943
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,720
And so, and by another indicator is that managers

944
00:46:27,720 --> 00:46:29,840
will tell you, and here's how a manager tells you

945
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:31,420
that they're not a good manager.

946
00:46:31,420 --> 00:46:34,840
You ask, how many good people do you have?

947
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,640
If they say that less than half of their people are good,

948
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,000
then you know they're a horrible manager.

949
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,140
Because the most important job for a manager to do

950
00:46:43,140 --> 00:46:45,400
is grow their people, right?

951
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,860
And without exception, every time we hear someone,

952
00:46:49,860 --> 00:46:53,000
I had one client who said, 60 person department,

953
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,580
30 of these people don't belong here, right?

954
00:46:55,580 --> 00:46:58,400
And, you know, we went in and did the training

955
00:46:58,400 --> 00:46:59,240
and all that kind of thing.

956
00:46:59,240 --> 00:47:01,480
And a year later, she's like, these,

957
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,040
I have the most amazing teams, da da da.

958
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,040
And we asked her, said, how many people left?

959
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:07,920
Because she was gonna get rid of those people, right?

960
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:09,720
She goes, oh, only one person left.

961
00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:13,120
She had to go because her husband moved and moved jobs,

962
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:17,280
you know, and literally the, it's the way you manage

963
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,320
that creates great people, okay?

964
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,480
And that's not the other way around.

965
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,080
You're not, you as a manager are not a product

966
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,400
of your people, your people are a product of you

967
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:28,520
in that way.

968
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,480
Right, and I love the fact that your story honors

969
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,720
the reality that both groups can change.

970
00:47:34,720 --> 00:47:36,720
You don't have to remove the manager

971
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:38,000
in order to drive the results.

972
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,720
This is somebody who saw something differently before

973
00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:42,160
and now sees something completely different

974
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:43,000
on the other end.

975
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,000
You made space for that person too,

976
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:45,920
to be able to evolve.

977
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,640
And that is, there's extreme power

978
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,760
and that all the way around.

979
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:53,800
That is just awesome.

980
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,320
So this, you know, I hope this gets shared far and wide

981
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,200
with the corporate companies out there.

982
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,240
You know, that's not exactly the audience.

983
00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:06,640
Well, I've never worked in corporate America, never.

984
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:07,780
I've seen it.

985
00:48:07,780 --> 00:48:11,480
I'm a victim as a prospect and as a client

986
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,680
of a lot of corporate circumstances, if you will.

987
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,400
But actually running those entities

988
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,600
with an insane amount of people, not insane people,

989
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,600
an insane amount of people to try to manage

990
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:28,120
and to help out, those are not territories

991
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:29,600
that I know how to dive into.

992
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:33,360
So I appreciate what you do because there's so many families

993
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:34,480
that are affected by that.

994
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,240
There's so many people who need that.

995
00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:39,880
And we're hearing from people with the book coming out,

996
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,120
we're hearing from people saying, oh, I work in healthcare

997
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:44,280
and it's just like you say.

998
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,000
And I think that's the last thing I would say

999
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,440
in this discussion to your listeners

1000
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,960
is that's what I'm looking for right now

1001
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:55,800
is I wanna go take this to the market, to the street, right?

1002
00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:00,100
In other words, I've spent 230 agencies

1003
00:49:00,100 --> 00:49:01,720
and other marketing organizations.

1004
00:49:01,720 --> 00:49:04,180
I've worked in this crazy, rarefied,

1005
00:49:04,180 --> 00:49:06,440
chaotic world of that space,

1006
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,760
but all the things we're learning about management there

1007
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:10,200
are true everywhere else.

1008
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:14,400
And I'd love to go work in more corporate settings,

1009
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:15,920
departments, all that kind of thing.

1010
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:17,880
I think there's a lot that can be done

1011
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:19,840
in those areas as well.

1012
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,200
Absolutely, well, Jack, I appreciate all the wisdom

1013
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:23,600
that you shared today just being willing

1014
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:25,760
to dialogue with me about this as well.

1015
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:27,740
Those of you listening, and if you have thoughts of your own,

1016
00:49:27,740 --> 00:49:29,880
absolutely share them in the comments.

1017
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:31,920
If you liked what you heard, please like this,

1018
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,480
like the video wherever you're at or the podcast,

1019
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,380
leave an honest review, short and honest, authentic,

1020
00:49:37,380 --> 00:49:39,480
super helpful, any critique you have

1021
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:40,600
as well, we're open to that.

1022
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:42,440
We wanna continue to make this better and better

1023
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:43,880
for those that we serve.

1024
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:45,880
The action steps will be on the landing page

1025
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:47,880
so you know what to do next and can connect with Jack

1026
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,400
on all the different platforms that are out that he's on.

1027
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,000
And lastly, there's one more call to action.

1028
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:53,800
That's in the top right corner.

1029
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:55,040
This is be our guest.

1030
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,440
If you have a vision and you're striving to help others

1031
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:58,760
and you're striving to build that

1032
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,780
and bring greatness to others, you're a great leader,

1033
00:50:01,780 --> 00:50:04,440
meaning you care about those that you serve,

1034
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:05,360
apply to be on our show.

1035
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:06,180
We'd love to have you.

1036
00:50:06,180 --> 00:50:10,080
We don't have to be at the MVP hall of fame level

1037
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:11,840
that Jack skills is at.

1038
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,000
You know, you could be John Doe.

1039
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,560
Well, hey man, you're up there with the Jack Welch

1040
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:17,960
and the Jack Canfields.

1041
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,920
Again, I'm gonna be studying your processes a lot.

1042
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,160
So those of you who wanna come on our show apply,

1043
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,600
give yourself a shot and come on and talk to me

1044
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,080
about your vision and let's open the doors for everybody

1045
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,040
to be able to see what you're doing,

1046
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:31,280
see how they can support you

1047
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,040
and let's make the most of this life.

1048
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:34,760
We'll see you guys in the next episode.

1049
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:35,600
Take care everybody.

1050
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:37,520
And Jackson, thank you so much.

1051
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:38,520
Wonderful, wonderful.

1052
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:39,360
Thank you.

1053
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:40,400
I'll see you right after the show, Jack.

1054
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:41,780
Thank you for being here today.

1055
00:50:41,780 --> 00:50:44,280
I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.

1056
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,920
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions

1057
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,200
as these episodes continue to move forward.

1058
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:50,920
This is gonna get more and more fun.

1059
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,720
We'll have more and more engagement as well.

1060
00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:54,800
We'll invite people to participate in the show

1061
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,180
and thank you for giving us your time and attention.

1062
00:50:57,180 --> 00:51:06,180
Have an excellent time building out your vision.