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thoughts of like, what, what all have you done in the past? I

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want to know, I want to know like the details of that.

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Yeah, absolutely. Jackson, happy to happy to share what my history

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is, and then what what I'm doing today. So just quick background,

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you know, I was in the Navy in 2012 to 2016 joined. So my

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father was an entrepreneur, he had started a company in 1999.

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I joined them, you know, getting out of the military started at

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the bottom, it was a it was an IT staffing company, companies

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doing about 12 million in revenue at the time started as a

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recruiter and worked my way up through the company over four

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years. We ended up selling that company in 2020. When I was a

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chief operating officer of the company. So and at that time, we

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had grown it to 65 million in revenue. And we took some a few

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actions that really got us there. And we made the company

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more data driven. So we just doubled down our investment in

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the right places that automatically scale that revenue

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behind it, which is really cool to watch the company grow and it

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went exponential. So that was kind of my first, I would say,

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experience with entrepreneurs.

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That's a big first. That's a big first way to start off in

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entrepreneurship. And thank you for your service, by the way, in

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the Navy.

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Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. It's great experience. And my

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dad's a fantastic sales guy. He can he can sell you on anything.

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And that's how he built the business. What I find in a lot of

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entrepreneurs with the various skill sets is they're really

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great sales, they love their, you know, whatever they're going

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after their vision. But sometimes internally, you need

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some professional management to come in to really organize and

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help them build that, you know, the foundation for skill. And I

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think that's where I was able to complement what he was doing is

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I was a finance guy in the operations guy. And I would look

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at a where's the resources going? Where's the investment

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being? But are we wasting any money? Anywhere? Is everyone

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doing their job? And that really facilitates some of that skill

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which is pretty cool.

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That is super cool. And it is fun to see a visionary and

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integrator come into contact that harmonize, you know, and it

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can very much help when it's family. I, I heard an old friend

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the other day talk about how he doesn't do business with family

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members. And my heart is in Oz, I've heard people do that. It's

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like you're cutting off the people that you trust the most

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in life. And his case, he comes from an excellent family. And

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other other families were, yeah, you wouldn't want to do business

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with family. But we don't, you know, I think it's just so silly

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to cut off your potential resources, based on an arbitrary

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belief, without exploring what might be possible. And you and

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your dad just did that you explored it, you hit it, and you

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reap the benefits from joining forces. That's super cool. What

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about that? If there's a book, a series of books, three, three

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books or resources that you recommend for visionaries on

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and what, what, what would they be?

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Yeah, so I have a couple that I've changed my mindset, I would

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say. So that was more brute for sales tactics, a company had

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already scaled. So we were already doing 12 million, right?

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It wasn't a small forming company. And we scaled into 65

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million, we had the people that were there. So now I'm starting

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a new company. And the way I'm going about it really is the

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way I like this key personal influence by Daniel priestly. So

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I've met Daniel at a conference through my network, spoke to

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him, and it's a really cool book. And basically, he says,

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you know, there's tons of businesses in every industry,

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but how, how do you stay on top? Or how do you stick out? Right?

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How do you become that key person of influence in that

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industry, so that all the really cool deals come to you? Right?

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Or to those few key people of influence? And there'll be a

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bunch of them in each community, you go to a conference, you see

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the same five speakers, well, you found your key people of

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influence. So how do you get there? And that's the one I'm

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actually looking at now with new business. So just just going

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back to Jackson, so we exited that one in 2020, started a new

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company in 2020 called ITT digital, which is an IT services

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firm, you know, we scale that up to 8 million in revenue in three

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years and exited that at the end of 2023 as well. And that was

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again, very brute force sales, right? It's like a business that

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wasn't a key person of influence, you're really

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spending a top dollar and doing all the whining and dining to

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open those clients, even though you have fantastic offering and

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a fantastic team. And then that's why this new kind of way

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of going about it is really, really exciting to see if that

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really makes a difference when you when you look at, you know,

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your business and scale.

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I can tell you right now makes a huge difference. Never heard of

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the book. I'm a massive advocate of the concept. I've experienced

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that firsthand. So when I went from my first couple startups to

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working with Jake Larson at video power marketing, Jake is

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known was known as the YouTube ad expert of the world. The

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founder of YouTube called him on the phone asked him to represent

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YouTube as before it launched. And then Ryan Dice put him on

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stage at traffic and conversion and called him the YouTube ad

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expert of the world. So when you got digitalmarketer.com and

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YouTube's founder endorsing you, and you run with that, it

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creates an excellence and a distribution that that you know,

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you want to capitalize on. Well, we were doing ads for people who

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could who had a minimum ad spend budget of $10,000 a month on

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YouTube ads. And so here we were doing ads for entrepreneur on

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fire, Johnny Dumas, Dan Martell, SaaS Academy, Michael Hyatt, T

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Harvick, or even pagan. You know, all these people you talk

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about were on stages, Billie Jean marketing. Oh, I'm forgetting

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so many good ones. Dr. Eric Berg. These are influencers who

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it was so easy to promote and sell for them because people did

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know like and trust them. There's a ton of proof out there

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regarding it for Jake. My first phone call was somebody who said,

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I just wanted to make sure you all spoke English. And I said,

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Yes, we do. How can I help you? And he said, My name is such and

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such. I'm with this and I shouldn't do this. But I heard

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Jake on stage, take my money. That was a sales call. I had

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never experienced anything like that in my life. Right. So you're

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you're spot on and the entrepreneur visionary is

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listening in, whatever you can do to make sure you know, figure

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out what you do well, and then build your authority or

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credibility or social proof will go a long ways to helping you

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get in the door and provide your service to people. So yeah,

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yeah, absolutely. What else? Yeah, you got two more books. I

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won't go off on them. I promise. Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I

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mean, you know, the those are all 80 hour 100 hour kind of

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work weeks, you're you're you're really grinding. And, and now I

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look at what I want my future to be. And now that's when I think

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a very famous book for our work week kind of comes into play. And

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that is, yeah, of course, you know, a doctor and a lawyer and

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okay, they make 100k or a million dollar salary. But but

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when you look at the hours to compensation ratio, isn't that

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much better in real life. And that's also really got me

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thinking, what do you look at your life later on? Is it, you

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know, when you're going to your grave, is it playing with your

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grandchildren? Or, you know, and having a good family balance?

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And, or is it and traveling the world? Or is that, hey, I saved

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so many patients or fought so many lawsuits, or whatever it

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might be for you, right? That one is the switch into is like,

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hey, how do you, you know, how do you maximize and 20% of our

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actions determine 80% of that program? So how do you figure

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out what those 20% you know, actions are, and even when you

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look at something as small as email, which is one of the

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concepts he had in the book, is that, hey, we check email, like

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it's text message, and I mean, wake up, check the email, you

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know, but if you just put a one hour blocks and only doing it

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now, you're so much more efficient, you get so much done,

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you just turn off all your notifications. And it was kind

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of a pretty eye opening when when you look at how much more

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efficient you become when you do some of the small things, which

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is absolutely

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you got another one?

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That was the second one, I'm trying to think of what a third

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one would be. I mean, I'm a huge Elon Musk fan in general, I

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think the new book that just came out, I think six months ago

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was is very eye opening for any visionary or entrepreneur kind

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of the craziest success story you would hear in the world. So

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that's I think a must read for everyone. But there's a lot of

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those like if you love Disney, I like, you know, right of a

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lifetime was an awesome book on how he went through acquisition

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through growth. And they bought, you know, they bought Star Wars

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and Lucas art, and then they bought Marvel and then how they

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scale that. So it's pretty cool to see how these guys go about

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it. And then the type of deals they make. Yeah, a lot of

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learning.

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I think you hit you hit something big on the head there,

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too. It's not just about the book, but the author behind it,

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right. And I like that you said it's a it's a must read. So have

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some fun with that. But yeah, see, you know, when you can get

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behind the book itself to the author and start to learn from

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them as an individual and seek them out as a potential mentor

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as well. It's amazing what types of opportunities that come your

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way and accomplishments you can have. So I definitely recommend

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going to the source of the information and extracting what

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you can. We got many I think all three of the ones you mentioned

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are all live to this day. You know, why not take the

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opportunity to dig in any of you listening in knows how to contact

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or is his friends with Elon, send him our way. We'd love to

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we'd love to get to know him. So we'll take a quick break. And

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we'll come back we'll talk about on and Narayan I'm gonna I'm

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gonna match this name to make sure I haven't mastered. So

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Narayan such a cool last name to rising Oh, Ryan, that's my son's

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middle name, by the way, pop quiz for people later. And but

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while we're while we're taking the break, consider commenting,

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subscribing. Also consider leaving a review for the podcast

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and we will see you on the other side for on uns vision. All

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right, welcome in to vision pros live with Jackson Calame. I'm

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your show host, we will be doing interviews for visionary

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entrepreneurs and guest leaders who are building fantastic

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visions out there.

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Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome in for another, another

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vision pros live episode. I got a little distracted because I

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was like, man, when I was playing that I was gonna go shut

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that door and I totally forgot, we'll leave it open. You can see

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my house. So San Antonio Riverwalk sign in the background.

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But anyway, without further ado, we're going to dive right into

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writing value for each of you. My first point of value being

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forgive yourself when you make mistakes. Second point of value

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being in the form of sponsorships up here. We're gonna

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start with Melissa Gray from the law spot. Melissa Gray runs the

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law spot.com. We've actually just finished the blueprint with

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her as well. She is one of our clients, by the way. And the

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blueprint we've created helps magnify the reality that law

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does not have to be complicated. I'm really a big fan of what

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she's up to. We've got an event coming up, by the way, if you're

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in the Dallas area on April 16, we're gonna be doing a mixer

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mastermind networking event. I know it's gonna it's gonna go

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really, really fast. And it's also coming up super, super

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soon. But we're excited about that. And, you know, I'm the

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type of business owner who went through a $20,000 trademark

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lawsuit. And we won. But did we when we lost $20,000 in the

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process of trying to keep our name. In addition to that,

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Apple patented our software, same exact company, as long as

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the restaurant connect. And one of the things that I could have

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done better sooner in my life as an entrepreneur is consider the

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value of being a wise steward and making sure that I had talked

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to lots of different options, and really, really built out my

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vendor network, that would have put me in a better position to

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have the right type of attorney by my side in those situations.

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I hope you do the same. That's all just consider her as you look

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at your opportunities to protect yourself. But also knowing that

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when you find the right lawyer, they can also help you on your

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merger and acquisition opportunities and negotiations

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as well. That puts you in a stronger position to grow and

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build. You got to find a lawyer who actually cares about your

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growth beyond just the times when you're desperate for it.

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Then there's Andrew Sosin of recovery unplug. I love what he's

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built. If this helps one person fantastic, but helps everybody

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well, congratulations on being self aware. Recovery unplugged is

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an addiction recovery program. And so many people suffer from

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all sorts of levels of addictions. I see too many

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people beat themselves up in this category as well. Too many

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youth who think that they're addicted to something because

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their parents freaking out. Again, I'll digress back to the

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entrepreneurship application here for those who don't have

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kids, just finding the right resource of a professional who

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can help, especially one that understands the power of the

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power of virtual support. COVID pushed Andrew into the position

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of needing to go from five physical locations to being able

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to provide this program online to individuals. I think it's one

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of the greatest things that could have happened for this

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world. They now have a 24 seven hotline that you can turn to.

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They incorporate music into the process as well. And they have

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over 400 team members who work with them on this. Now, I always

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like to add they're very aligned with Tony Robbins programs as

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well. Andrew has been 22 years in a row to that program. So if

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you happen to align with Tony's philosophies as a leader and

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what he does and how he does things, then this is definitely

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a program worth taking a look at and tacking onto your own

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personal development or something you may want to

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recommend again to friends and family who don't know where to

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go for help. Again, I hope this helps at least one of you out

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there. And then there's the water project. The water

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project is our go to recommendation in terms of

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causes. There's millions of people in this world who don't

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have access to clean drinking water. That's something I've

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never suffered from. And I'm so blessed to ever have have

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suffered from not having water. So why not pick a cause that we

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can support where there's millions of people who don't

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have this and try to inspire the world to give back. Now, if

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you're not in a position to give back, then please just share

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this message with others who might be able to because you

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never know who in your networks going to be the person who

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drops 500,000 or or maybe $5 to the last one of these

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communities. The cool thing is if you do contribute to a

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specific community, you're actually going to get an email

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that helps you know like what's going on and what happened with

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your money. What did they create? They sand them. Did

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they create a borehole? Well, you get to see the effect that

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you have on this community. So we have the opportunity to

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create generational impact by giving back to this cause. And

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if you have a cause that you'd rather see a support or

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something that's just kind of drawing on your your heart

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strings, you know, or maybe maybe have a family member who

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has a crowdfunding Kickstarter, do us a favor. Just drop that

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in the comments. We're happy to see if we can support and help.

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There's eight billion people in this world who need help in a

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lot of different ways. This is our our way of trying to give

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back to them. So without further ado, I'll bring Anand

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on stage. We'll talk about his vision and we'll dive into all

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things capital markets, entrepreneurship, and how to be

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fruitful as we build. Welcome to the stage, Anand. Thank you so

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much for joining me today. It's my honor to have you, man. Yeah,

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thanks, Jackson. Really appreciate it. Looking forward

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to it. Absolutely. Let's let's go into this first question

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here. So, Anand, what's your vision for those that you serve

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with? And this could be in Kenobi Capital. What would your

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venture? This could be outside of that. I'll let you take us

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from here. Yeah, I think there's this two main visions. I'll

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start with Kenobi Capital and and and why I'm doing this. So

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I've gone through the sale of two companies and and and some

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of the small sales in between and and what I really found

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through this exiting process is that the the incentives for a

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small business owner to exit are not aligned with the

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traditional people in that market. If you look at

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traditional private equity, you know, their business model is

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buy sell buy low sell high and and that doesn't align with

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the small business owner that's really built this whole company

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taking a lot of risk and and 80% of employment is with small

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business owners. Right? That's where most of us are are

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employed. So, they they're taking a lot of risk but

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they're not able to exit from their companies at the value

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they deserve and the second thing in this market is that

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you have a lot of business brokers which also you know

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they their job is to to help you exit but they don't you

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know necessarily understand your business. They don't know

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how to increase the valuation of the business or how to

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present it to that potential buyer. So, the the first thing

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that I'm I'm really trying to do is help small business owners

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exit with the maximum potential value on the best possible

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terms with peace of mind and and the real reason I'm I'm

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going after this is in the first exit that we had, you

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know, we we were owners, we were operators, we made a lot

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of mistakes and and unfortunately when we actually

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exited that went into a lawsuit. It was bought by a

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private equity firm and then you know we found out the whole

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business model was to do this. They will just stop payments,

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you know, they will extend it because you as a small

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business owner don't don't want to get into legal. You're not

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used to getting into kind of a legal battle. Right. Big

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decision. So, you can imagine a 65 year old man or woman

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entrepreneur has a family, kids, maybe grandkids on the

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way and and all of a sudden this baby they've grown over

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20 plus years is something they hate. They're fighting a

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lawsuit over this company because they're not getting

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paid for it and and that's real like heartbreak to see

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happen and and it's something we've gone through and it's

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it's really unfortunate and happens to a ton of small

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business owners that are that are to expand on that. I

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want to know if you don't mind what are some of the

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details of you you mentioned that the business model is

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kind of designed to make that happen. What do you mean by

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that? Yeah, sure. So, let's look at simply okay when you

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when you make a deal and they they approach you, they they

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give you an unbelievable valuation. It's something

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that you first didn't imagine you can get, right? So,

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that's that's the first thing and it was a red flag for us.

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We've we've talked to a lot of people but it it seemed

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reasonable for you know, we're doing about 65 million

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revenue at the time and it seemed reasonable based on the

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revenue numbers but maybe not on the profit margin. So, you

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get enticed with this really nice offer but then they say

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something like, hey, they'll pay you 25% upfront and then

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you know, you get this kind of payout and it'll be over three

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to four years and then you have some earn outs and some

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employment contracts and and all that that need to continue

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and even when you hit these benchmarks, the payments get

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delayed and and that's it was right and they're paying you

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quarterly or every six months or every year, that payment

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starts getting pushed saying, okay, we're having trouble,

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right? We'll pay you in the next, we'll pay you the whole

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thing then that mark hits and then again, the the sum exceeds

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to get paid or they pay you something small like a token and

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then just starts getting the payments pushed. Now, you as

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the entrepreneur, you you don't buy and sell companies.

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You're not really well versed with the legalities of the

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whole thing. You you're an owner operator. So, you postpone

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your time frame to make it a lawsuit, right? And and that's

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the real mistake is is you don't want this to become a

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lawsuit. You're very positive. You're very hopeful that

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things will work out the way that you want and

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unfortunately, that's not the case in most of these

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scenarios and you eventually do have to go into a lawsuit and

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we spent over half a million dollars fighting this lawsuit

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and took three years and we finally won about four months

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ago because we of course, we were in the right but if you

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don't go through that exercise and what if you give up, right?

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You spent you know, quarter million and you give up and

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you don't push it all the way or you don't have a great lawyer.

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There's a lot of things that can happen. So, the real

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question is who do you trust, right? That's the real

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question. You are a small business owner. You are looking

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to exit your company and retire or sail into the sunset.

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You do this once in your lifetime. Who do you trust and

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how do you really negotiate properly and who's on your team

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and those are very hard questions to answer and that's

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what we had to learn the hard way. That's huge. I'm glad you

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shared that. There's so many business owners that are going

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through this right now and the market is getting hotter and

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hotter because of the baby boomers, right? So, a lot of

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businesses are in the process of moving towards the exit and

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planning for it and preparing for it. So, as that the cool

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thing is as that conversation heats up, the younger market is

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starting to pay attention a little bit more. We're all

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starting to take a look at it. I'm seeing people in their

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20s now starting to really plan around the exit strategies and

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what's there. So, there's going to be people who come in and

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just want to make a quick buck and it's very important to be

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aware of what red flags should we look for, what good things

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should we look for at the same time and we're not going to use

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all the time today to talk about that. We're going to shelve

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that. We might come back to it towards the end but I'm just,

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I'm actually really happy to have you on my radar. I want to

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get you and Melissa talking as well because I want to see

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where the gaps are, right? That exists between y'all two

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different brands and knowing how that affects, you know, if I

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know my gaps and I know her gaps and I know your gaps, then

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when I run into different opportunities and situations, it

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gives me a better chance to know who to call to involve in that

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process and say, hey, here's where we're at. Here's where

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our opportunities exist while also making sure I mitigate

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risks for the brand. So, awesome job. Your vision, what

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about you personally? What is your vision? Yeah, so one thing

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right now I'm looking to do is get this company kicked off, of

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course, and start helping these small business owners but in

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general, what I really want to do is to be able to help a lot

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of people on more of the financial management aspect,

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especially with, you know, America's debt levels and

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overspending that we have today. I think a lot of people are

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maybe not well educated on how do you manage personal

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finances, right? So I think there's multiple visions and

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this is one is first, how do you help the small business owner

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get their exit and make sure they get the value for that? But

404
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then how do you protect that money and invest it where you

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get a proper return for that money? And that's, that's, of

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course, that may be a higher end of someone exiting for a

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couple million dollars. But how do you help people that are

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maybe not as well off or as lucky that can start a business?

409
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How do you help them do the right things? And I know

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there's a lot of things in today's market that help people

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do that. But I don't think it's touched enough people. There's

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still a huge, you know, problem with credit card debt, right?

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Living paycheck to paycheck and how do we change those things?

414
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So this small things you can take advantage of that people

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don't know about. So eventually, that's really where I want to

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get into and I already do it for my friends and family. I'm

417
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like the money guy for all of them. But how do you scale it

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and make it more affordable to masses? I think is a good

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question. I know there's a lot of fintech startups trying to

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do it. But yeah, how do you really get that scale and help

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people? Yeah, I'll roll my eyes at the market, not at you. At

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the market. You know, there's a lot of noise in the market. But

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noise and music are two different things. And there's a

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lot of crappy providers out there. And so we really need to

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look at, you know, it's who really knows what to do? Who

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knows how to help in these circumstances? And I think

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people are very frustrated with the types of service providers

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that they have in certain industries, one of them being

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finances. And it's like, I mean, I'm tempted to ask every

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financial advisor that I meet, like, what's your net worth?

431
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That's the first question.

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It's like, man, I already know you don't have a net worth. Like,

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why are you doing trying to manage my finances?

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That's the first question I ask for everything, right? If you

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want someone, if you need someone to advise you on

436
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something, you need to know that they've been there and done

437
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it in some capacity. Otherwise, it doesn't exist.

438
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Lots of capacities. Yes, it is very important. And granted, I

439
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will digress on that. My heart surgeon does not have to have

440
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done heart surgery on himself, right? In order to do heart

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surgery. But there's just not enough reference checks. People

442
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don't know how to ask about it. They don't know how to

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interview. It's too dangerous of a game because of the lack of

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transparency, or rather the lack of quality education that

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exists. And if we create transparency and we create

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quality education, then it will help people start to think

447
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about things that seem too complex for them to perhaps want

448
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to understand. So we're in speaking of on that note in the

449
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entrepreneur world, let's shift gears away from just the

450
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traditional advising. But why do you think leaders hide from

451
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funding their visions? I mean, a lot of them that have pipe

452
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dreams. And when I say that, you know, it's, it's people who

453
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say they have a vision, but they're not willing to take

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action to fund it. You know, or they're scared to talk about

455
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funding their visions, not with me in general, they're just

456
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scared to approach the subject. Why do you think that is?

457
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Yeah. Well, one thing I would the first thing I think about

458
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is, of course, having the steady income and salary. Right. It's

459
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like, are you really going to give up something that's stable

460
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to try to go after this thing where, you know, one in 10

461
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,600
people or one in 20 or one in 100, really, you're going to

462
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,800
take like 1000. I'm with you. It's a very low percentage of

463
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,240
who wins an entrepreneurship. Exactly. So it's like, you see

464
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,040
all those kind of social media posts, like your salary is kind

465
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,240
of like a drug, to some extent, right? It keeps you from

466
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,520
going after your dream. And I think that's an extreme way of

467
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,080
doing it. I think a lot of people or most people need that

468
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,320
stability. And that's one reason they don't fund it. And even in

469
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,960
my case, I've quit my full time job, I'm full time in this. I

470
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,480
don't, you know, it's still getting formed. It's all growing.

471
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,200
But I've done two companies before, and I understand the

472
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,080
risks of doing that. And I require you're willing to

473
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,320
support the lifestyle, which is a big idea. Those are very,

474
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,720
very important aspects. And that that actually goes into the

475
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,960
next question, which is how, how do leaders lean into funding

476
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,880
their vision? So you mentioned a couple things you mentioned

477
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,320
having a partner who supports your lifestyle. I love that. I

478
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,160
love that you mentioned the caveat of that. And two, you've

479
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,600
been there and you've done this a couple of times now. So you

480
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,200
also recognize the value of having that stable income

481
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:48,560
source to help fund the project or the vision. So how else do

482
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,920
leaders lean into funding their vision? Yeah, I think it's very

483
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:56,080
important to test the idea. So I had a co founder when I was in

484
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,120
Cornell, and we started a different company who's a doctor.

485
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:01,920
And we were trying to go after kind of an async in this

486
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,720
business model. And we were testing that out. So we

487
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,640
actually pitched to 300 400 angel investors. And when I mean

488
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,480
angel investors, just friends and family, okay, to see if, hey,

489
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,760
are you willing to even put $5,000? Right? Because if your

490
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,760
own friends and family are not willing to put $5,000 or $10,000

491
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:24,000
to some fundraising around, then the idea probably sounds a

492
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,960
little crazy. Right? That's at least one way I would go.

493
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,240
I just have to clap for you on that one. I have to clap for

494
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,520
you on it. There's the world that the world of small

495
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,640
businesses have never been on Shark Tank. And they usually

496
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,680
don't think about the angel. They don't know about the angel

497
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,920
world, which like you said, is very simplified. It's just a

498
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,200
word for friends and family. Yeah, willing to invest in you.

499
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,480
And if you cannot get that, you're going to have a very

500
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,240
hard time with your market. Yeah. If you're not even able to

501
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,120
convince them on the idea you're going after or put yourself,

502
00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:59,200
make yourself vulnerable, right? Because nobody wants to

503
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,760
fail. Right. And now I know it's getting a little bit more

504
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,800
accepting to fail. And people talk about failure, but people

505
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,080
talk about failure already pretty rich and kind of made it

506
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,720
right. It's not the regular person that's talking about, oh,

507
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,240
I failed in this or this venture or that venture. So you

508
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,440
have to be willing to put yourself out there and fail.

509
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,120
Right. And are you willing to do that? Because if you're not

510
00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:21,120
willing to do that, how do you plan to grow this company? It's

511
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:24,080
not going to go from zero to 10 million where you can talk.

512
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,960
Right. It's really the struggle in between that's the hardest.

513
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,880
Right. And the, you know, there's so much of will this

514
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,120
work? Right. And you're going through your head and

515
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:35,200
constantly thinking about it. And that's the hardest part to

516
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,960
get through is that self-doubt in the whole thing. But you have

517
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,600
to put yourself out there. You have to talk about the idea.

518
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,880
You have to convince yourself it's a great idea and convince a

519
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,720
few others. The other cool thing I think, Jackson, that a lot of

520
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,920
people don't do is see if you can find a co-founder that's

521
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,240
going to come on for equity. Right. That's if you can convince

522
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,040
somebody else and all my co-founders that are coming on

523
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,640
are equity based. They're all keeping their full-time jobs for

524
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,800
now to decrease their risk. But I'm giving them all a portion

525
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:11,120
of the company and a pretty big chunk of the company. And that's

526
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,840
another belief idea is, hey, can I convince one person or two

527
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,840
people to come on for whatever percentage you're willing to

528
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,200
give up that they believe in this idea and they will join when

529
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,080
they can make a lower salary, say a hundred thousand dollars.

530
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,040
Maybe they're making 250 today and you need that kind of

531
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,440
person. But you're like, Hey, when I can pay you 100K, you're

532
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,000
coming full-time. Otherwise you lose the whole thing. And if

533
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,480
they join, if they believe in that, you have a validated idea

534
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,320
again, that, Hey, this makes sense and a reliable team. And

535
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:37,840
that's a pretty cool way to go about it.

536
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,560
I love that. And again, I don't hear this talked about often

537
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,560
enough. It's very rare. I should say often enough, Anand,

538
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,680
you're one of the few people who has ever talked about these

539
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,920
subjects openly. And we practice this first class business,

540
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,000
you know, huge shout out to Zach. Zach Gagnon is my right

541
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:01,440
hand man who only is available when as a needs basis, he has

542
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,520
5% of the company and he's been doing that based on, you know,

543
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,240
and he could have more and he might have more later down the

544
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,720
road. But the efforts he's put in to help us build while

545
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,520
maintaining what he needs for work right now, where he's like,

546
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,440
he's really happy with where he's at. He's happy with what

547
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,200
he's doing. We can renegotiate at any time. You know, he knows

548
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:26,560
that. And at the same time, he wants a benefits package. Get

549
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,880
that. And we both understand that. It's like, okay, keep your

550
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,440
job, you know, it's to keep your current contracts that are

551
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,840
going. When we get to the point where we're negotiating

552
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,680
benefits packages and we have that baseline salary, then you

553
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,200
can come over and spend more time with us. But he's just a

554
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,160
backup for now. And he helped me establish the brand when we

555
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,680
first got started. We have similar contracts with other

556
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,240
people and I've brought on business partners. Again,

557
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:56,800
seriously, thank God that they did not take advantage of the

558
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,440
opportunity. You have to be careful that you align with

559
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,480
values. But I had one business partner come on. I gave him half

560
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:07,600
my equity and then half my equity after months of working

561
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,800
together and we knew each other for years. I said, let's do it.

562
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,000
When we have investors at the next level come on board and

563
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,200
our cash flow is positive, I'm going to be giving up one

564
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:18,880
percentage point and you're going to be giving up one

565
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,840
percentage point for that equity transaction to take

566
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,400
place to get the investor money. And he said, cool, that's

567
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,520
awesome. Well, fast forward three months. It didn't go well.

568
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,080
We both weren't happy with the situation, but we were both

569
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,880
friends and he also gave me 50% equity in his venture at the

570
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,320
same time. We decided to just call it a wash. We both took

571
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:43,440
our equities stakes back and we moved from that experience

572
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,520
back to what we were originally doing without each other.

573
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,760
They're not all negative experiences out there when it

574
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:54,720
comes to equity exchanges. And I just want you to realize that

575
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,000
those who are listening in that these types of negotiations

576
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,440
and discussions can take place and the better you become at

577
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,360
healthy relationships and healthy boundaries, the more

578
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,240
likely you end up talking to somebody who doesn't take

579
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,720
advantage of you, but is a great way to lean into funding.

580
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,360
And there's many ways to do just that. Do you have anything

581
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,360
else to add on the subject before we move to the next

582
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,640
topic? Just one quick thing I can say on funding that I've

583
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:22,960
learned recently. So I've joined this program called

584
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,400
Veblen Director Program. Pretty cool. It's like, how do you

585
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,200
become a board of director of a company even if you don't

586
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,360
maybe feel that you have the experience? And a lot of

587
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,560
entrepreneurs do have that experience, but what if you are

588
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,400
an employee in senior management, middle management,

589
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,000
how do you become a board of director? But what I got out of

590
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,400
the program is when you're starting a company and you're a

591
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,320
small entrepreneur, setting up an advisory board is like a

592
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,480
very cool way to raise money because you might set it up and

593
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,280
you have nothing, right? But you have eight people, but you

594
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,520
make sure that all those eight people are following your

595
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,160
story, you're communicating. You don't have to have meetings

596
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,080
and take a lot of time, but make sure you're sending an email

597
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,720
out every two months. Hey, this is what I said I'm going to

598
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,520
do. This is what I've done. This is where I am. And make

599
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,400
sure their networks have big pockets. And then the thing you

600
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,560
approach and say, hey, I'm looking to raise money. Well,

601
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,280
if you said what you're going to do and then you've done what

602
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:21,440
you said, right? That's a lot of credibility. A lot of people

603
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,920
don't even do that. And that's a really cool way to raise funds.

604
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,000
It's a very important way. I absolutely love it. Was just

605
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,920
talking to a nonprofit organization about six weeks ago

606
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,840
and the founder of it, she has 36 people on her board.

607
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,640
And it feels validating. But, you know, yeah, it is a lot. But

608
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,440
I told her, I said, how many of them have invested in what

609
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,400
you're doing? And she said, none. And I said, that's your

610
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,520
greatest challenge right now. I was like, you don't need 36

611
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,200
chiefs. Yep, you need people who are on your board that are

612
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,440
willing to put their money where their mouth is. So it's time

613
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,600
to get she's a well, they're all going to give $100. And I'm

614
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,680
like, come on now. I was like $100. Like, you know, anybody

615
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,600
in the street will give you $100. If you just go with a

616
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,800
sign for a little while. Yep. These are people who that you

617
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,240
want to be directors, they really need to dive in and

618
00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:14,480
support you bigger on this if they're going to have that type

619
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,240
of a role. Or they need to be contributing to the

620
00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:22,160
growth process process in order to to be worthwhile on on

621
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,440
that board. So anyway, those are I love that you talked about

622
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,760
it. Those are incredibly important thoughts. What was

623
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,440
the name of the organization? Veblen director program. How do

624
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,600
you spell that? Yeah, V E B L I N. Sorry, is a V.

625
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,880
Evelyn. I got it. Veblen director program. A lot of

626
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:44,000
a lot of letters in that name that. Yeah, Veblen directors.

627
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,840
Yeah, perfect. I've got that now. And we're going to dive

628
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,400
into a dark subject. What is the worst leadership experience

629
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,640
that you've ever had? Yeah, for me personally being a leader

630
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:01,520
and kind of a mistake. So it goes back to my my previous

631
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,240
story with the first sale. I mean, I was a pretty

632
00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:08,640
significant component of that and vetting the organization,

633
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,280
putting together all the deals, you know, discussing all the

634
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,400
red flags that were going on and and still made a mistake

635
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,200
there, right? And maybe we didn't have the right advisors

636
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,600
in place that were more from a litigation M and A standpoint.

637
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,280
We might have, you know, we went with people that were

638
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,160
helping us from a corporate corporate law standpoint. And I

639
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,480
think we should have done a little bit more due diligence

640
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,440
or at least three read three books on how do you sell your

641
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,160
business and how do you look for these pitfalls or something,

642
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,080
right? Yeah, which is something we didn't do. There's a really

643
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:44,240
cool deal on the table, much higher than the value we thought

644
00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:48,400
we were going to get for the company. And we kind of I guess

645
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,120
we should have seen that as a red flag in the first place.

646
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:55,600
Why are they willing to pay more? And they do this in and

647
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,560
out and they do a good job at it, right? So they know how to

648
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,960
how to play the game. But either way, I think that was the

649
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:05,280
worst, you could say, kind of outcome from being in a

650
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,120
leadership position that you could have is not stopping that

651
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,480
from happening. That's definitely the biggest one.

652
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,840
That's well said. You know, our conversation earlier reminded

653
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,360
me of a friend, we were talking about the funding aspect and

654
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,760
worst leadership decisions to, you know, like, not sharing

655
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,240
what you're up to, because you're scared somebody's going

656
00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:29,920
to take it. Right. That's also one of those common realities

657
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,920
of why people don't go get funding. I was 16 years old, I

658
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,600
believe at the time, when a friend's dad was, he was super

659
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,280
hesitant to tell me about this app that he wanted to develop.

660
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,320
You know, because he was worried about somebody stealing it.

661
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,240
You know, this is a family friend who's extremely close to

662
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:52,160
us. And I'm like, I'm looking back on that, like, wow, like

663
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,000
he struggled to tell me as a 16 year old, you know, about the

664
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,640
app, because he was so worried somebody would build this game

665
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,160
and he's never built the game, you know, it's now 20 years

666
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,440
later, and it never came to fruition, you know, it died on

667
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,200
the vine, probably, it's my guess. But I think it's, you

668
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,920
know, we get so worried about about fear that we don't take

669
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,800
action. I'm glad you guys took action, you learn so much in the

670
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,440
process of the cell that you had and every future cell that

671
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,840
you're ever involved in or part of, you're going to be that

672
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,560
much more prepared to go look for that resource. And I'm sure

673
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,360
you've found resources since as well, that can help you and

674
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,120
that's selling the business like that's one of those that, whoo,

675
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,040
you know, when I get to that point for my businesses, I'm

676
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,320
going to, I have a feeling that people that I consult with,

677
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,720
and the people that I consult with, are not going to be very

678
00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:44,480
happy with how many different things I have to drag them to

679
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,240
make sure that we do it the right way. Yep. All right. So

680
00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:52,400
moving into the next question, what is your best leadership

681
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,400
experience ever? Yeah, I think I've had two really rewarding

682
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:02,080
experiences. One was when I was young, I was 23 in the Navy,

683
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,720
and my ship was deployed outside of Syria when the

684
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:08,480
chemical weapons, when Syria had chemical weapons against

685
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:13,600
Syrian citizens. And that's a red line for the United States.

686
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,760
And, you know, my ship happened to be the one that was

687
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,560
deployed already there. We were the first ones that came out.

688
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,000
Yikes. And they called it Operation Numbul Warning, which

689
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:26,320
was a pretty cool name. But, you know, we were in combat 20

690
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,960
hours a day. We had this team and, you know, that team was

691
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,560
always on call. We were pretty much sleeping there and getting

692
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:36,160
ready to shoot, right? And we were kind of in a, you could

693
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,880
say a battle zone. We knew, you know, kind of what was going on

694
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,080
in the arena. And that was a pretty rewarding experience

695
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,520
because I was a strike officer on the ship. And you're under a

696
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,120
lot of pressure. And you need to act and make decisions under a

697
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,360
lot of pressure. And this is pressure for like 25 days. It's

698
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,840
not like pressure for a couple hours. You get to go back and

699
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,120
sleep. It's like ongoing pressure with the team. And you

700
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,200
got to make sure they're rotating, everyone's motivated.

701
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,720
And, you know, the whole ship is kind of on red alert there. So

702
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:09,440
that is kind of, I would say, the most rewarding. Being the

703
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,960
leader in that scenario, keeping the team cool and learning

704
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:18,160
along that very young leader, I guess, at the time. And yet 20

705
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,240
people kind of following you doing this. So pretty cool. But

706
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:25,760
as you look at the business side of the house, it's definitely

707
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,840
exiting the last company, right? You know, growing this small

708
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,480
company from nothing, completely root-struck with a

709
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,720
couple founders. And we grew that company and were able to

710
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:40,480
exit. And I was the one pushing for the exit at the time,

711
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,600
because I saw the way the market was flowing. And, you know, big

712
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,080
tech was laying off. And I was like, hey, maybe this is the

713
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,640
time we want to exit. We're not going to be able to exit for the

714
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,800
next couple of years. So kind of convincing everyone and pushing

715
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,400
that exit and all worked out, which was great. So I think kind

716
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:57,840
of two examples there on that.

717
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:02,880
Yeah. I'm going to go back to your military days, because a

718
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:07,840
lot of people who want to be great leaders shy away from

719
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,800
those experiences or consider them some of their worst

720
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,160
experiences, when in reality, you know, the greatest leaders

721
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,480
that I know, they run into that head on. They appreciate the

722
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,160
fact that they are learning, they are growing. This is the

723
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:27,520
experience that it's all meant for. And that mindset shift is

724
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:33,040
something that's super helpful for business owners to consider.

725
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,240
I mean, we all have an opportunity, even at any given

726
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:39,760
point, to shift how we tell a story, right? To shift how we

727
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,320
feel about an experience or a story. This is one of those that

728
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,760
I would highly recommend people considering is what element of

729
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,440
pressure or difficult situation have you been in that you can,

730
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,400
or is coming up or you're in right now where you can be like,

731
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,120
you know what, I'm going to own this. I'm going to own this and

732
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,560
dive wholeheartedly into it and make things happen. And you did,

733
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,320
you talked about doing that very well. If this was the last

734
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,280
chance, Anand, for you to share a powerful experience with

735
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,960
others, you know, specifically with visionaries, what would

736
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:10,640
the powerful lesson be that they can learn from your

737
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,160
experience? Yeah, I would say never, never giving up. I think

738
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,800
that's a very standard answer that a lot of people say, but I

739
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,440
think the one the people that do succeed just, you know, they

740
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,440
have that resilience to keep going. And if 10 people say your

741
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,760
idea is bad, and you're able to create that kind of commotion or

742
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,080
or however, however you want to word it, then you're probably

743
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,200
doing something right. Right? If you know, it depends on who

744
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,200
you're talking to and what network you're talking to. But

745
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,720
if the network that is not in the entrepreneurial mode has no

746
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:41,280
idea what you're talking about, then you're probably doing

747
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,560
something right, to some extent, and then people that are in

748
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,480
what you're doing can relate to it. Then that's, you know,

749
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,080
that's, that's kind of what you're looking for. So you'll

750
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,640
always have people that are maybe you could say bringing you

751
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,600
down or making it much harder for you to be successful, but

752
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,920
you need to get through that and, and decide who you're

753
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,560
going to listen to, right? And then have that close circle as

754
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,040
a circle you're listening to. Just, you know, don't don't

755
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,560
listen to everybody else. Yeah, I think that's the toughest

756
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,000
part. Otherwise, we won't have things like Airbnb. You know,

757
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:14,000
right, if people did that, and it goes back to what your point

758
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,400
was, I'm not sharing ideas, I think it's important to share

759
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,280
ideas, because Airbnb got copied when there were 400

760
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,000
people company, this other company, the whole business

761
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,640
model is to copy these startups, these moonshots. And

762
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,080
then they went back to Airbnb and say, buy me, or I'm going to

763
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,680
compete with you. And they talk about how they didn't buy the

764
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,920
company, they the other company eventually went bankrupt,

765
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,240
because it's not what they wanted to do. They're just

766
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:38,800
trying to get a quick buck by copying this company, but

767
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:43,280
sharing ideas, get that validation and, and get the

768
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,640
validation from people you know are in the same industry, or

769
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,840
or doing something similar in the entrepreneurial mode is

770
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,480
important. We were we were guilty ones of doing something

771
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,640
similar to that. I won't I won't lie about it. The R&D

772
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,400
research and development ripoff and duplicate model, those

773
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,080
concepts. I think there are there there's a fine line,

774
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,200
there's an importance to have like, I look at firelin and

775
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,760
firefirelin, Firestone, Michelin, Goodyear, you know,

776
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,440
they didn't invent the wheel. Yeah, you know, and so they

777
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,880
that one could say that they've cheated, you know, and hold

778
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:23,520
that concept. And whether it was couchsurfing.com, you know,

779
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,320
or something similar that was kind of going after Airbnb or

780
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,680
Uber and Lyft, right in a battle, the taxis existed first

781
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,360
to write, there's there's some realities there. But I like

782
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,000
what you what you talked about in terms of, you know, if

783
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,000
people are saying you're doing it wrong, or you have

784
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,320
something that's kind of that's innovative or different or

785
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,360
changing the game, especially if it's Blue Ocean territory.

786
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:45,920
Well, I mean, that's why it's called Blue Ocean. You know,

787
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,560
nobody knows that it exists, you know, they're they're just

788
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,800
finding out and they're trying to decide, do I want to go

789
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:52,560
there to want to go to the beach where everybody else is

790
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,360
that, you know, there's there's different personalities and

791
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,640
different realities you have to deal with when you go down that

792
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,640
path as an entrepreneur. But when I was at home local, which

793
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,120
is written about in Alex Hermosy's book, 100 million

794
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:10,880
dollar offer, we, we had an opportunity where one of the

795
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,840
it's one of the most public failures of all time, because

796
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,720
they were so close to being one of the best companies and

797
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:21,120
marketing of our generation. And that was when Groupon CEO

798
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:24,640
was dumb enough. Sorry, dude, it was a dumb decision to turn

799
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:29,120
down a multi billion dollar offer by Google to buy it. And

800
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,040
he thought they were going to be able to do better without

801
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:36,400
them. What was he thinking? I don't know. But within six

802
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:41,920
months, there was 230 companies that all launched with the

803
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,000
Groupon business model, including

804
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:49,280
Google. We did my tech team did it Lloyd was in charge of it,

805
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,600
right. But I mean, I think it was overnight, we made like

806
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:56,800
36,000. Yeah, it was really big for us as a startup. And we

807
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,000
were working with newspapers already to distribute the word

808
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,400
about that. And so it was, it was definitely a it was

809
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,360
definitely worthwhile model and that that did help us grow and

810
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,480
expand a little bit. So you also got to be careful that

811
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,760
whatever your idea is, you got to be the best at it.

812
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:16,240
Yeah, Mark Cuban said that talking to Tai Lopez, like,

813
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:18,480
you've got to be if you're not the best, somebody's going to

814
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,560
come along and you're going to kick your booty and he didn't

815
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,560
say the word, but they're going to come along and they're

816
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:24,880
going to destroy what you're doing. Your intellectual

817
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,760
property is only as good as your ability to continue to

818
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,480
make it make it impress the market and help the market

819
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:34,480
benefit from it. So those are just I just want to double down,

820
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:40,320
never give up for sure. And keep keep building, you know, and

821
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,760
don't be scared to to model what's out there because the idea

822
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,920
probably does exist. Yes, I agree. And I think you should,

823
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,320
at least I feel that we should talk about the ideas because

824
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:54,320
it's all about execution in the end of day to become the best

825
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,960
possible. And once you see a success story, of course, a lot

826
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,320
of people are going to go copy it. Right? That that is like,

827
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,720
you know, saying that you became successful. That should

828
00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:05,760
be validation that a lot of people are coming after you to

829
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,640
chip away at the business. And that's natural. But hopefully

830
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:12,000
you have the scale at that point in time to do it. And if

831
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,400
you're the small business, hopefully you have that rigor to

832
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,280
go after that big company, which a lot of people are, of

833
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,080
course, trying to chip away at Microsoft and Google and and

834
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:23,680
everything that they're doing because they're so successful.

835
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:29,040
Absolutely. But the concept, why not? Right? Yep. So creating

836
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,400
fruitful outcomes. All of these concepts for entrepreneurs

837
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,760
apply to creating the fruitful outcomes. And we didn't touch

838
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:40,320
much on capital markets, at least as a as a layman. I don't

839
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,920
think so. I mean, that's not my forte to dive into terms that

840
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:49,360
that go that high up the the intellectual chart. But what

841
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,840
what would you like to add in terms of fruitful outcomes in

842
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,920
capital markets on it? Yeah. So I think there's a lot of value

843
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,440
with scale in today's market. So when we talk about Kenobi

844
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,600
Capital and going back to what we're trying to do and how

845
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,120
we're helping founders, this is an aspect of one is cleaning

846
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,480
up the business that makes it highly valuable because it's

847
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,520
you're looking at EBITDA multiples in small companies. So

848
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,000
first you go kind of through an accelerator, you clean up the

849
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,880
business, but when you have scale, you get a much higher

850
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,680
valuation. And that's when the capital market play comes comes

851
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:23,360
in. So you're doing say 5 million revenue with half a

852
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,440
million dollars in sales versus 50 million and 5 million

853
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,200
dollars in profits, right? It's a big difference. And that's

854
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:35,120
when capital markets get more enticed with your business. And

855
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:39,360
they will actually create their own bidding war in this, which

856
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,280
jacks up the price automatically, which is pretty

857
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,320
cool. So that's that's when capital markets come come into

858
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,640
place when you have scale, you're looking to exit and you

859
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,360
have five or six companies together that make it really

860
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,440
attractive. And it unlocks that value because capital markets

861
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,480
really want to get into small businesses, right? How else do

862
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,080
they grow as they want to acquire a lot of these

863
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:02,320
companies? And that's how capital markets come into play.

864
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,720
It's it's unlocking the value between, you know, small

865
00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:07,440
businesses and capital markets. And I think there's a lot of

866
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,480
value to be unlocked there with this generational shift right

867
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:14,640
now with boomers retiring, selling companies and, you know,

868
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:16,960
it's the wealth transfer that's going on. It's tremendous.

869
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:22,080
That's awesome. Absolutely. So anybody who's in that position,

870
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:26,400
of course, feel free to reach out to Ana and Orion and see

871
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,960
what's going on. We're going to put the action steps as well as

872
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,440
part of this episode down below the show. So, you know, which

873
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,000
action steps make the most sense for you based on where

874
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,880
your brand's at. Also, we have a call to action on the page in

875
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:39,280
the top right corner. It's going to say be our guests. If

876
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,440
you have a vision you'd like to share, we'd love to hear your

877
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:44,560
vision on Vision Pros Live. Don't hesitate to apply. I'll

878
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:46,560
take you through a pre-show process where we get to talk

879
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,040
behind the scenes about what you're up to and if it makes

880
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,840
sense to have you come on the show for both parties. And of

881
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:53,920
course, we'll look at what we're going to do to distribute

882
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,960
your voice, make sure that you get heard. Anybody who also has

883
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:00,320
a comment or a question, feel free to drop those in the show

884
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,960
and let us know. We'll make sure that Ana gets access to

885
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:07,440
those. And lastly, if you feel inspired by the show,

886
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,000
subscribing, liking and sharing with others, that's super

887
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,400
helpful for all of us. We really appreciate everybody

888
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,440
who listens into the show. And I'm going to let Ana finish

889
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,160
us off. Ana, anything you want to share before we go?

890
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,400
Yeah, just thanks for having me on, Jackson. Really

891
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,680
appreciate it. It's been fantastic chatting with you and

892
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:25,760
love to hear what other entrepreneurs are doing. And I

893
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,320
think you're showcasing a lot of other people's visions here.

894
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:32,320
So that's fantastic to learn what others are doing. And

895
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:35,200
yeah, anyone that just wants to connect, network, be in that

896
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:40,320
group of people who can bounce ideas off of happy to help in

897
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,360
any capacity, whatever that might look like to see those

898
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:46,400
ideas work, if we can get in front of investors and just

899
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,320
help people with the entrepreneurial journey.

900
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,800
That's perfect. Vision Pros, we will see you on the next

901
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:54,560
episode. Take care, everybody. Bye bye.

902
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,800
Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy that you

903
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,080
tuned in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking forward to seeing

904
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,120
your reactions as these episodes continue to move

905
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,360
forward. This is going to get more and more fun. We'll have

906
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,760
more and more engagement as well. We'll invite people to

907
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,480
participate in the show. And thank you for giving us your

908
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:23,760
time and attention. Have an excellent time building out.