1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,440 on. You get to reconnect your social platforms once in a while, but yeah, I'm super happy. 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:10,920 Now I didn't do all the setup. I recommend that most, it was easy when I did back in 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:18,480 the day, but I wish more entrepreneurs and visionaries would realize their power of delegations, 4 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:20,720 right? Inspiring team members. 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,640 You must be an EOS fan boy, I think. 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:25,640 Which one? 7 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:26,640 EOS. 8 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:27,640 Elon Musk? 9 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:28,640 EOS. 10 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:29,640 Oh, EOS. 11 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:37,560 I'm a, you know, I don't know how much I, when I, when I finally learned that in order 12 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:42,480 to play basketball, you have to love the workouts like LeBron James, you know, like, and when 13 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:47,440 I see, I feel bad for business owners that stay stuck in the, oh, I hate doing X, Y, 14 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:53,000 or Z. And it's like, well, if you hate doing layup drills and you hate working out, then 15 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,200 you're actually probably not going to make it in that career. And the same is true. 16 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,880 I started my business right after the first time I ever went through strategic coach and 17 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:06,320 did unique ability. And like, I really pulled that in. When I started my business, I was 18 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:10,720 like, the whole point of me starting my own business is to be a hundred percent focused 19 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:15,520 in unique ability. Are there days when I do things that maybe aren't a hundred percent 20 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,960 not? Of course. But every day I just work more and more to be like, no, somebody else 21 00:01:19,960 --> 00:01:23,720 should do this. No, somebody else should do this. It's not me. 22 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,840 For sure. Well, and for the younger people too, it's like when you get into sales, for 23 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:31,880 instance, right? You don't necessarily love sales, or love the idea of that, especially 24 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,640 if you come from like, oh, I was a musician in high school or I played basketball in high 25 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:42,000 school. There's an identity crisis that kind of occurs before you usually recognize like, 26 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:48,080 oh, wow, what if I dedicated myself to this the same way I dedicated myself to other passions? 27 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:52,960 And your passions can evolve because we're humans and we're adaptable and we can learn 28 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,600 to love different things. But Megan, what would you say your three favorite resources 29 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:06,840 are book, book wise, movie wise, your call? So in terms of like resources, there's a book 30 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:13,520 called traction. That's kind of the kicking off point to getting started with EOS. And 31 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:18,640 that is like a supreme tool for entrepreneurs and visionaries that are really looking to 32 00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:23,440 get started. And then there's this one that's actually right next to me right now, the team 33 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:29,880 success handbook by Shannon Waller. This is just all about strategies for making your 34 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:37,040 entrepreneurial team more productive. And then honestly, just self shout out, I wrote 35 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:44,200 the MSP sales playbook, which is sales for MSP is exclusively and I'd never seen one 36 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:50,120 quite that focused. And so that's a huge resource if you're an MSP sales. I love the way you 37 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:56,120 positioned your resource. And I wish more individuals in the in the entrepreneur space 38 00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:02,420 that had resources like that were able to be that bold, that authentic and that humble 39 00:03:02,420 --> 00:03:08,240 as well about about the quality and value of the resource. I'd say the exact same thing 40 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:13,280 about the power marketing funnel, as well as the Academy of first class businesses. 41 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,640 So way to own your stuff, way to own the value you put into that. Let's dive into a little 42 00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:21,200 bit of a break. And then when we come back, I'll do a proper introduction for you, Megan. 43 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:26,480 All right. Welcome in to Vision Pros Live with Jackson Calame. I'm your show host. We'll 44 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:31,600 be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs and guest leaders who are building fantastic 45 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:41,440 visions out there. 46 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:45,440 Hey, what's up and welcome into another episode of Vision Pros Live. I'm your host, Jackson 47 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,600 Calame, founder and CEO of First Class Business. Today, we're going to be talking to Megan 48 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:58,480 Killian, who has over 500 has sold over 550 million in new B2B tech revenue. And she does 49 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:06,040 so with with a highly ethical, high ethic, high ethic approach to sales. Man, I butchered 50 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:11,800 that, didn't I? Point being, we want to make sure that we are ethical in what we do and 51 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,960 what we represent. And we're going to be talking about how to do sales from that standpoint 52 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:21,400 and why it drives more revenues when that's your approach. And we'll probably be talking 53 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:26,000 as well about some of the corners that are cut or that we cut without even realizing 54 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:31,240 it. They kind of ruin our authenticity and ethics of sales. So we all do it. None of 55 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,400 us. None of us are perfect on this world. So let's not pretend we are. Big shout out 56 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,000 to Megan as well for connecting her audience live. Appreciate you guys. Definitely drop 57 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,320 some comments and let us know if there's a certain question you want us to go over. But 58 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,040 we are very much going to be diving into her vision. Now, before I bring Megan on stage, 59 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:51,160 I want to talk about these sponsors a little bit. People who are very important to my life. 60 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:58,880 The Wellness Shop 365 with Sean Lechuga. Sean is a growing entrepreneur, just like 61 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:03,720 myself, just like Megan, just like most people out there. And what I love is his integrative 62 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:09,640 nutrition and health approach focuses on a holistic approach to wellness that I hadn't 63 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:14,960 seen before. This 365 Harmony of Life will assessment really caught my attention. He's 64 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:19,080 looking at what is your joy and spirituality and creativity look like? What about your 65 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,200 career? What about your home environment? What about your relationships and your social 66 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:28,960 life? I've heard of holistic wellness, but I've never seen somebody really dive that 67 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:33,840 deep into the core of wellness. So I'm really looking forward to seeing his vision continue 68 00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:38,560 to thrive and move to fruition. For those of you who don't know, he's also a part of 69 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:44,600 the Vision Pros live process now. And you might meet him in a pre-show, but I definitely 70 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,600 take a look at what he's got going on, support the development of what he's up to. And we'll 71 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:56,160 now move on to Melissa Gray of The Lost Spot. The Lost Spot was, I'll be honest, when I 72 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,560 first had the opportunity to host Melissa on my show, I was like, I don't want to host 73 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:06,720 an attorney on my vision show. These people are usually fairly pretentious. They're kind 74 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:11,400 of stuck up. They're rude in your face. Exact opposite experience with Melissa Gray. She's 75 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:16,120 a high nurture individual who understands that legal does not have to be complicated, 76 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:20,560 which is really nice because in business ownership, there are complications to it and you do need 77 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,880 protections, but 99% of the business owners I've talked to, maybe that's not fair. Maybe 78 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:31,200 95% don't have legal counsel thought through. And that becomes very dangerous and scary 79 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:37,160 once you receive your first trademark lawsuit or a cease and desist or a demand letter, 80 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,720 or you've got a worker's comp situation. There's so many different things where Apple 81 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:45,520 patents is your software, like they did with mine at Restaurant Connect. I'm like, whoa, 82 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:50,320 what do you do in those scenarios? It's very helpful to have somebody by your side who 83 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:55,640 you trust versus going and finding representation at the last minute, which Megwin also tell 84 00:06:55,640 --> 00:07:00,280 you if you're in the last minute, supply and demand puts you in a position to where you 85 00:07:00,280 --> 00:07:05,040 end up often paying a lot more than you should for the services that had they been well thought 86 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:09,200 out and we found that person who could protect us and help us, we'd probably be in a better 87 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:14,500 position to make a wise decision. Lastly, there's a water project. There's millions 88 00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:19,840 of people who do not have access to clean drinking water, like I'm so blessed with every 89 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:24,600 day. And it's something that I don't ever want to forget. So if you have the opportunity 90 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,640 to get back to the water project and support one of these communities, I love that they 91 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:33,920 show us the outcome of whatever we contribute to. You get to see exactly what they build 92 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:38,080 and how their life has changed. If you don't have the ability to give back, then my request 93 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:42,440 would be that you, I hope that you're inspired to share this with other people because you 94 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:47,200 never know. You might be the one who connects the dots for the person who is going to be 95 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:52,700 able to give back 10,000, 100,000, maybe beyond. And the generational impact that we can have 96 00:07:52,700 --> 00:07:57,780 by bringing clean and safe drinking water to entire communities is absolutely something 97 00:07:57,780 --> 00:08:04,340 worth pondering and meditating on. So without further ado, Megan Killian, welcome to First 98 00:08:04,340 --> 00:08:07,760 Class Business and Vision Pros Live. We're so excited to have you here. 99 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:12,260 Great to be here, Jackson. Let's dive into your vision for those you 100 00:08:12,260 --> 00:08:17,480 serve. What is it that you hope that, what do you see on the horizon for those that you 101 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:22,760 serve? So our vision is to scale 100 MSP's revenue. 102 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:27,620 And it really comes down to taking them where they want to be. As entrepreneurs, we know 103 00:08:27,620 --> 00:08:34,160 that like the goal of having a business, it varies, right? They could be trying to exit, 104 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:39,560 maybe do some M&A. They want to be acquired. That's their retirement plan. Maybe they want 105 00:08:39,560 --> 00:08:43,960 to leave a legacy, leave it behind for their kids. Maybe they want to build a lifestyle 106 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,880 business. They want more time to spend with their families. They want to be working on 107 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,400 their business, not in it. But most frequently I'm helping companies that are around the 108 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:58,360 $1 to $2.5 million a year mark get to $5 million. I kind of tap out at $10 million where I'm 109 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:04,860 like, the stuff that I used to get you to here is no longer the scalable solutions. 110 00:09:04,860 --> 00:09:09,480 You need somebody else who's more about scaling things that you're already doing, not implementing 111 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:10,480 new things. 112 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:21,160 Excellent. Well, then way to know the thresholds of where you're most effective. It's a really 113 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:26,740 good sign of somebody who's an expert at what they do. So I appreciate you saying that. 114 00:09:26,740 --> 00:09:30,520 You mentioned an acronym people may not be familiar with, and I believe it was MSP's. 115 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:32,000 Do you want to describe that a little bit? 116 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:39,920 Yeah. So MSP's are managed service providers. And my agency, my consultancy, we have from 117 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:45,800 our fruition only really served B2B technology companies. But over the course of the last 118 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:50,900 year we've really not even so much on purpose gotten really niche down into the managed 119 00:09:50,900 --> 00:09:57,880 service provider community, which is sort of outsourced IT. You're a small business. 120 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:04,680 You can't afford $120,000 a year IT director. Have somebody do it for you. 121 00:10:04,680 --> 00:10:09,200 That's excellent. It's good to know too for just the general audience here so that if 122 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:15,200 you know an IT firm that's struggling or you have an IT firm that is working with you, 123 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:19,560 I would bet against them. Meaning I would bet that they're probably struggling to get 124 00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:23,900 sales and they're struggling to win. Well, what happens when they go out of business? 125 00:10:23,900 --> 00:10:29,040 So if you can connect Megan to that person and with enough of an endorsement or say, 126 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:32,600 hey, come at least go watch the show and see what she does. That would be an effective 127 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:37,320 way to help make sure that your IT team doesn't fall apart and go bankrupt. 128 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:42,760 Yeah. Historically, IT support companies are terrible at sales. They really understand 129 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:49,000 tech, but that brain that really understands tech has a hard time with sales and marketing. 130 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:55,880 Historically, human beings suck at it, all of us. And again, let's go to the stats on 131 00:10:55,880 --> 00:11:00,600 that. 96% of businesses fell within 10 years. That's not something we should hide from. 132 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:05,160 That's something we should be aware of. Become self-aware of our realities. It becomes easier 133 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:13,520 to move forward. That means that 4% of businesses, I used to say 4% of businesses win. 4% survive 134 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:20,840 and after 10 years they're still hanging on. That's no 10. You're 10. According to sba.gov, 135 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:27,860 it's your 10. But again, the starting phase two and fizzling out, it's still not pretty. 136 00:11:27,860 --> 00:11:34,480 But we're talking about massive, massive failures as an economy for businesses. So it's not 137 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:41,120 just IT that's limited. We all struggle with our ability to properly and ethically sell 138 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,280 and until we start paying attention. That's probably the thing that I see people say, 139 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:51,680 oh, I know how to do that. Maybe. Let's take a deeper dive and see what can we learn as 140 00:11:51,680 --> 00:11:55,520 leaders to become better. So what's your vision for you? 141 00:11:55,520 --> 00:12:02,560 So for me, it's all about impact. I have spent the early part of my career as a kingmaker 142 00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:08,720 and I'm talking helping people buy their third private jets. And I sort of had like my man 143 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:13,000 on the mountain moment where I was like, this is not what I want to be doing. And I wasn't 144 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:18,600 sleeping well at night. I was in big tech and I didn't love what I did. And so now like 145 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:24,600 my vision is to help scale those MSPs and specifically to hook my wagon to and partner 146 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:29,560 with businesses that care about the same things I do. So those ethical businesses that are 147 00:12:29,560 --> 00:12:35,160 giving back their local communities. Because when I go and I scale an MSP's revenue, it's 148 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,800 not just the owner that's benefiting. He's going to go hire a new techs. He's going to 149 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:45,080 go hire new admins. And so that impact happens in that community as well as my own. The other 150 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:51,800 side of it is that my vision is to be the hand up that I received. So I was a homeless 151 00:12:51,800 --> 00:13:00,480 single mother. I was a teenage mother and sales changed my life. I now own two homes. 152 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:06,720 I make multi six figures and have for a long time. And I want more women to get into B2B 153 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:12,640 tech sales. And I want more marginalized people to be able to get into sales and to be able 154 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:17,800 to get into tech. And so like the agency's vision and my vision are hand in hand. We 155 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:23,960 want to scale revenue for businesses while elevating marginalized talent. 156 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:30,980 That's a beautiful vision. I got to ask, you mentioned giving back locally. Do you hate 157 00:13:30,980 --> 00:13:34,720 my water project or is it okay that we support the one that's across the world? 158 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:43,320 That's really fine. Like that's marginalized, right? We sometimes hire local. Like I have 159 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,480 a lot of people from Orlando. I have people from a lot of New England because that's where 160 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:52,800 I come from. But we also hire out of Brazil. And I consider them to be marginalized as 161 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,560 well because they wouldn't have access to the opportunities to build their English the 162 00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:58,440 way that they do by working. 163 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,400 Do you speak Portuguese? 164 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:11,000 A little bit. Like I know how to say, okay. And I had a Portuguese, I mean, she was Brazilian, 165 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:17,120 but she spoke Portuguese and I tried so hard to learn, but I kept mixing and you speak 166 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:23,400 Spanish, right? So I kept mixing my Portuguese and my Spanish. 167 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:24,400 Oh yeah. 168 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,400 Those romance languages. 169 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,320 Yeah. Very similar languages. Well, thank you. And I got to clarify too. I said my, 170 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,480 the water project, the water project is not mine. You know, I just, I really love it. 171 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:38,760 And so I feel like I belong to it, but it does not belong to me. Let's sign into- 172 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,640 I think we all agree that everybody should have access to clean water. 173 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:48,200 Yeah. It's hard not to agree with that. Right? Well said. So what's your, what's the, let's 174 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,800 start with a dark subject. What's your worst leadership experience ever? 175 00:14:52,800 --> 00:15:00,520 So for me, the worst leadership experience was recurrent in my career. And it's just 176 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:09,960 working for narcissists. In the tech industry, particularly when companies are successful, 177 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,560 owners and the people they surround themselves with tend to really believe that they are 178 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:24,280 God's gift to this earth. And I disagree. And I actually have gone through therapy to 179 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:30,120 get over the trauma I experienced working for a narcissist. And you kind of tend to 180 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:36,880 think like narcissistic abuse is specific to being in like a romantic relationship with 181 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:44,520 somebody, but it happens in business all the time with like gaslighting and love bombing. 182 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:50,600 Always when I'm hired by these people, I am the best, most favorite person in the world. 183 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:55,760 And I can produce millions of dollars in revenue. And as soon as I disagree with them and call 184 00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:01,960 them out on like probably the most specific example I can give, I still have to be a little 185 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:08,960 bit general because I can't call people out, is pushing DEI initiatives internally and 186 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:15,760 being like, hey, when I look around this room, I don't see any skin tone variation. I'm the 187 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:21,180 only woman in the room. We need to do something about that, especially as more millennials 188 00:16:21,180 --> 00:16:29,640 are becoming business decision makers and they buy based on values. And just the amount 189 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:36,520 of torture I went through after that, where I was treated like an enemy to the entire 190 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:45,360 company and told that I was overly emotional and didn't understand business. That's the 191 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:52,200 worst for me is when I bring empathy to the table and I'm just met with a garbage reaction 192 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:57,480 because people feel attacked. And I tend to believe that I approach these things with 193 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,800 tact. I'm never just like, you're bad for being a CIS head or a white man because you're 194 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:07,400 not. You were born that way the same way as I was born the way that I am and someone else. 195 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,960 You don't choose the skin you're born in. And so there's nothing wrong with being who 196 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:18,520 you are. But when you look around a room and everyone looks like you, maybe you should 197 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:23,040 ask yourself why that is. Have you built yourself an echo chamber on purpose? 198 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:32,120 Right. I think it's an important topic. And that's an important topic. There's an important 199 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:37,680 debate within. There's also a really strong and importance for validation of what you 200 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:48,080 said. It sucks to be in a toxic relationship. And we all have our own toxicities. I certainly 201 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:56,400 have my toxic natures. And anytime I'm hangry, watch out. I didn't get enough sleep. I might 202 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:04,040 wake up as a grizzly bear. There's realities that I face. There's also the challenge of 203 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:09,920 and I like that you use the term, they think that they're God's gift to the world. It's 204 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:14,080 tough because one side may see that as like, okay. And again, I'm not talking about the 205 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:21,000 true narcissist. I'm not talking about the one who says I'm God's only gift to the world. 206 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:28,600 I'm better than everybody else. That's a different level. But I personally believe that you are 207 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:33,000 God's gift to the world and that the people who are listening right now are. And there's 208 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:38,760 some people who don't, who'd be like, whoa, he's love bombing now. He's really just trying 209 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,840 to manipulate her into whatever. What are your thoughts on that? I would be very curious. 210 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:48,160 No, I think so. I'm not like a, I'm not Christian. So I can't really specifically say it's, it's 211 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:53,080 God's gift, but like the whole concept of like higher power and spirituality, I believe 212 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:59,280 everyone is a gift and that there's something to learn from every single person that you 213 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:04,720 meet. Um, I spent my early years, like my, my teenage years, I was a special Olympics 214 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:11,400 coach. We ran a therapeutic riding clinic in my backyard and, um, you, you can learn 215 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:19,720 some of life's biggest, most important lessons from people who may not even be verbal, you 216 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:26,760 know, like I was taught so much patience, so much grace, what it means to accept help. 217 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:35,440 Um, so much gratitude in, in those situations, um, taught empathy, taught what unconditional 218 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:42,760 love looks like, how you can communicate nonverbally, the, the base concepts of behavioral psychology 219 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,400 that have built my entire career. Um, I've never met someone I didn't learn from, whether 220 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:55,320 it was, I don't want to be that, or that is what I want to emulate. Um, so yeah, I mean, 221 00:19:55,320 --> 00:20:00,260 I agree with you a hundred percent that, that everybody has their own gifts and has something 222 00:20:00,260 --> 00:20:04,520 to share with the world that's worth saying. Um, and I want to hear as many stories as 223 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:11,200 I can. I love that. There's so much depth to this conversation right now. Um, this, 224 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,520 I think, I think it's beneficial to the world at large, um, that I'm, I'm like sticking 225 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:21,960 with this topic. Um, the, one of my theories, this is a theory, I got, there's no proof 226 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:27,720 behind it. Um, but one of my theories recently that I've tapped into is like, what if I think, 227 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:33,240 I believe my hot bosses at the world, if the world went silent, meaning if there was no 228 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:40,480 more language and, and, and verbal communication, I think within a matter of four to six weeks, 229 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:50,360 we would understand each other better than we do. I speak ASL, so I'd be okay. And I 230 00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:53,720 think even if that was taken away, right. I'm not saying we should take it away. I'm 231 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:59,560 not trying to control them. Just theorizing there's, you know, there's studies that show 232 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:06,600 that our body language, our cadence, our tone, the, what we're not saying speaks far louder 233 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:12,080 than what we are often saying. Yeah. I mean, I think those things transcend even humanity, 234 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,960 right? So growing up, like I said, I had a therapeutic writing clinic in my backyard. 235 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:22,080 I grew up with a horse and I communicated better with her, um, than I do anybody in 236 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:27,560 my whole life. She knew exactly how I felt immediately. As soon as I walked into the 237 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:34,800 barn, she knew whether she was getting snuggles or we were going for a run, you know? Um, 238 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:40,300 and like dogs are like that too, and cats, and there's so much that we communicate without 239 00:21:40,300 --> 00:21:47,920 even consciously being aware that we're communicating it. Um, and I think like I'm autistic, so 240 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:56,800 I tend to be like extra sensitive to all the nonverbal cues because I had to very consciously 241 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:02,160 learn them. Like I have playbooks running in my head all the time for social situations 242 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:09,000 and I'm consciously looking at like body language as a cue because I don't want to miss it because 243 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:15,520 so much of my childhood was being penalized for missing cues. Um, and so yeah, I agree 244 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:23,240 completely if we lost our access to language and even like we have a habit in my house 245 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:30,480 where we just turn our voices off, like turn your voice off. Um, and a lot of that is for 246 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:36,500 myself for my own overstimulation, but it's also really good for us to work on how we 247 00:22:36,500 --> 00:22:44,520 communicate and work as a team without the spoken word. All of this, all of this relates 248 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:51,840 to cells. All of this is the power and dynamic of influence, um, you know, and, and it's, 249 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,240 so while, while that scenario could force the issue, I think the greater opportunity 250 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:02,340 as leaders is are we willing to experiment and, and try, um, you know, to see what would 251 00:23:02,340 --> 00:23:07,000 it be like if I stopped sharing everything on social media? Oh, what would it be like 252 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:12,620 if I, um, you know, gave people a little bit of space and decency and courtesy when they 253 00:23:12,620 --> 00:23:15,560 show up late? What would it be like? 254 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:21,500 That sales all day long is the AB testing tonality. What's the difference between when 255 00:23:21,500 --> 00:23:25,940 I cold call, uh, in the morning versus the evening? What's the difference when I cold 256 00:23:25,940 --> 00:23:33,560 call and I smile or I don't? Um, what's the difference when I'm talking to a prospect 257 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:40,240 and instead of speaking, I ask questions and I let them talk. And I think a lot, so many 258 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:47,240 sales, but we learned so much during COVID when we lost access to in-person interactions 259 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:55,720 about just how important body language was to sales because you only have so much context 260 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,920 when all you have is voice or all you have is the written word or even, even in a zoom, 261 00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:05,640 like I'm only seeing this much of you. So yeah, you're smiling up here, but I have no 262 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:12,940 idea you could be losing your mind underneath, like fidgeting yet. Like you could be really 263 00:24:12,940 --> 00:24:18,380 uncomfortable right now. And I wouldn't necessarily know that, uh, because I think we're all pretty 264 00:24:18,380 --> 00:24:21,560 practiced at controlling our faces at this point. 265 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:26,760 Yeah, that's well said. Um, it was a really interesting dynamic for COVID because then 266 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:33,480 you also have people masked up, put their pods in with sunglasses, with hoodies on. 267 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,880 You're like, Whoa, what do I have to work with here? 268 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,040 Are we the people anymore? I don't know. 269 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,960 It's hard to know how to, how to talk to somebody in that scenario or do you even write. So 270 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,960 let's talk about your best leadership experience. What does that look like? 271 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:53,360 Oh God, there's so many, but it's every single time that someone comes and tells me that 272 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:59,680 I made impact on their life. Right? So like I have a partner named Max, um, who does like 273 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,160 some of our technical SEO stuff. And when he called me and told me that he was going 274 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:09,040 to buy his first house because of work that we had done together in sales that I had brought 275 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:15,840 to him, like that was incredible. Um, landing last year, we had a really, we had a really 276 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,160 rough situation where our two largest key clients had to cancel at the same time because 277 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,880 they had internal cancellations that meant we were losing our contracts and I had to 278 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:31,600 fire a lot of people. Um, but being able to take my creative director who had never worked 279 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:36,960 outside of retail before and placed her in a social media manager role where she was 280 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:43,080 making more money than she ever had before. Um, and being able to take my copywriters 281 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,120 and place them internally at Orts where once again, they were making more money than they 282 00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:55,000 ever had before. And having like my, this week I had one of my SDRs called me in tears 283 00:25:55,000 --> 00:26:01,880 because of just how much it has changed her life for me to be positive with her, um, that 284 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:07,160 I breathe positivity into her. And so she went and got her motorcycle certification. 285 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,520 Um, it's, it's essentially like licensing for motorcycles. I don't understand it, but 286 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,800 she was like, I never would have had the confidence to do this if it weren't for you and her romantic 287 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:22,640 partner, um, just like gassing me up all the time and telling me how great I am. So that 288 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,920 there's never anything better than that. I don't care how much money we make. I don't 289 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:31,400 care about, I just care about being able to impact people's lives and make change. So 290 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:36,480 those are the best leadership experiences is when someone that you have managed or led 291 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:43,760 tells you that it matters. Yeah. That's awesome. If, uh, this is your last opportunity to share 292 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,440 a powerful lesson with other visionaries, they can learn from your experience. What 293 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:56,200 would the powerful lesson be? Lead with empathy before anything else. I think it's a constant 294 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:03,880 debate, um, in, in, in visionary circles and an entrepreneurial circles is like, what's 295 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:10,640 the most important leadership skill? And, you know, we can talk about motivation and 296 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,640 communication and all of those things. But ultimately for me, it's, it's empathy, it's 297 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:22,980 kindness, you know, care, just care. When you care about your business, the service 298 00:27:22,980 --> 00:27:29,960 you deliver to your clients and the people who work for you, that for me is the biggest 299 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:38,120 indicator of success. Care about those three things and everything else follows it. Yeah. 300 00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:45,360 Chip Conley in the book peak, uh, highlights a really great framework for how one can do 301 00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:50,680 that with utilizing Mazel's hierarchy of needs, um, to kind of systematize it for those who 302 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:56,560 don't really pick it up. I would read, uh, Ken Blanchard's one minute manager and raving 303 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:03,600 fans first. Um, but peak takes those concepts to an entirely new level. That's that was 304 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,400 very helpful for helping me realize how to recognize the needs of those around me. You 305 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:13,040 know, sometimes we care, but we don't know what to do with the fact that we care. And 306 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:18,640 they say the path to hell is paved with good intentions. So the opposite path, um, being 307 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:24,520 one where we're only in tent full to do good, but we've learned how to actually, um, be 308 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:30,320 good to others and help people. So we're going to have good models for it too. Right? Like 309 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:36,800 if you work in the corporate world, you had nothing but bad examples of what, uh, caring 310 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:42,760 looks like and feels like. Yeah. I think a lot of what I learned was like, I don't want 311 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:47,800 to, I don't want my company to ever feel this way. Yep. We're habitual creatures for sure. 312 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:52,520 I mean, COVID proved that, um, as well, like with, with all the masking up. Um, and again, 313 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,880 neither here nor there, I'm not here to judge them. Just we are, we, you know, we tend to 314 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:04,560 conform to our surroundings. Um, and so it's, it's also great when we do put ourselves 315 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:09,600 in a room with people who are living life the way that, you know, we, we want to live 316 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,820 our lives. Um, we do have more choice over that. And sometimes we give ourselves credit 317 00:29:13,820 --> 00:29:18,880 for when we live in a first world country, especially. Um, so with that said, we're going 318 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:24,080 to dive in and talk about ethical sales and why we believe it drives more revenues. Um, 319 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:29,200 you know, if, if people can make the shift. And I guess my first question for you is, 320 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:35,880 can somebody shift gears from unethical sales to ethical cells? Is that, is that a learned 321 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:40,920 skill or is it just something you're born with? They can absolutely shift gears. I think 322 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:47,360 a lot of the things that we do that are unethical are accidental. I agree. Absolutely. I know 323 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:52,920 people out there that are lying on purpose. They know their product is crap and they're 324 00:29:52,920 --> 00:30:01,280 selling it anyways. Um, but I think most salespeople are conscious that they, they want to be ethical. 325 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,920 They want to be good because here's the thing about being a salesperson, right? Is that 326 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,520 you're probably not going to work at the same company forever. You're going to build a personal 327 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,960 reputation. If you do that, well, you will forever have a book of business. You will 328 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:20,160 never not be able to make commission. I have people who buy from me now who bought from 329 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:26,240 me when I was working at Verizon selling cell phones, you know, who have literally followed 330 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:32,160 me from company to company to company and bought what I sold. Um, and so when, when 331 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:38,240 done well, like ethical sales, it's just so obvious. Like your personal brand is everything 332 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:43,560 in sales. When you become someone who's not trustworthy, you burn a bridge. And if you 333 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:50,640 burn enough bridges, then they tell everybody else that you're a bridge burner. Um, so, 334 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:55,060 but, but it's absolutely can be learned. And I think the learning just comes a lot from 335 00:30:55,060 --> 00:31:01,600 reflection and asking yourself if things are ethical. And this has been an ongoing process 336 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:07,680 for me because there are a lot of things that I was taught through sales training, um, that, 337 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,280 that I've been like, I don't know, is that, is that ethical? And there are things I ask 338 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:17,400 myself every single day. Is this thing I'm doing ethical is using chat GPT ethical. Um, 339 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:25,680 is having like, uh, a ghost profile on LinkedIn ethical for times when I don't want to use 340 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:33,600 my own name. Um, is cold calling ethical at all? Right. Is texting ethical. Correct. Is 341 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:38,960 web scraping ethical, you know, like there's some things that are very, very obvious. And 342 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:46,560 those are the things that I tend to coach on more is like, don't lie, tell the truth 343 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:52,440 under promise, over deliver, do what you say you'll do, say what you'll do. You know, like 344 00:31:52,440 --> 00:32:00,360 these things, um, and that is very coachable. The other stuff I think like ethics is an 345 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:07,080 ongoing question. There are so many philosophers out there asking the question, like what is 346 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:12,520 ethics? What does it mean to be ethical? And it's a forever ongoing equation that we're 347 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:19,680 trying to figure out. Um, and at the end of the day, it's like, how does your gut feel? 348 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:28,000 Right. And like, what do other people say about you when you're not in the room? And 349 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:34,920 what do you want them to say? And how do you want people to feel after their interactions 350 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:41,760 with you and about you and about your brand? Like those to me, that's ethical sales, ethical 351 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:52,120 marketing. It's all wrapped up in how we make other people feel and how we carry that with 352 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:57,960 us. And so much of that just kind of all, it all kind of comes back to like knowing, 353 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:03,920 know your why, why are you here? Cause I don't think anybody started their business like, 354 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,520 well, okay, some people did, but most people do not start their businesses. Like I just 355 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:14,440 want to go out there and rip off as many people as I can. You know, that's not when I talk 356 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:19,960 and I talk to a lot of entrepreneurs, um, it, when I'm consulting and about scaling 357 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,320 their revenue and none of them are ever like, we just, we just want to rip people off and 358 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:30,600 be done with it. No, they're like, we want, we have a good product. We deliver on our 359 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:37,320 promises and we just want more people to know that. Yep. And that's, that's kind of like 360 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:44,200 that, that core piece of ethical sales. So it can absolutely be taught. Um, sometimes 361 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:53,240 there is some unteaching that has to happen first. Um, sometimes that's funny. I think 362 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:58,200 for me, I'm constantly on teaching. That's like my role. Yeah. I think it's a lot of 363 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:04,840 relearning. It's relearning the things, um, that, that we thought were true, especially 364 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:11,120 if you've ever been to corporate sales training, I had to unlearn a lot, um, in the pursuit 365 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:16,600 of ethical sales because you mentioned it. We're interested, we're, we're influenced 366 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,480 by those previous leaders, right? So we're not, when I'm, when I'm saying when you're 367 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:25,840 untraining somebody, you're not changing who they are, but you're giving them the opportunity 368 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,960 to get back towards their core identity that you know is, you know, you're hearing them 369 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:34,180 not be them. I was just going to say what I'm asking them to do is to embrace their 370 00:34:34,180 --> 00:34:41,100 authentic self. So many people come to me where they have been templatized and processized 371 00:34:41,100 --> 00:34:46,760 to death. Where they're just like, this is the script, this is the playbook, this is 372 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:52,000 how I win. It's proven. They told me it was proven. So if I just keep, if I keep doing 373 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:57,360 this, if I make more dials, if I send more emails, but I do it exactly this way, then 374 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:02,720 eventually I will win. And in reality, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, let's 375 00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:09,080 reverse engineer all of that. Who are you? What are you good at? And I, I frequently 376 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:13,520 ask people, like when you go to a party and you were invited, the host is somewhere in 377 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:18,800 the house, but they're not the one that answers the door and you walk in that party. What's 378 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:24,360 your gut instinct? What do you want to go do? Say hi to the host. Yeah. Some people 379 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,960 want to go find the host. Some people like, I'll go check out the food table. Other people 380 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:36,360 are like, Oh, I'll just talk to the person who let me in. I'm going to go mingle. Other 381 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,360 people like, I'll go see if I can find someone else. I know what the party. Right. It very 382 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:47,480 much depends on you. People are different. And so that answer tells me a lot about the 383 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:52,960 personality and like introverts can be great context as well. Right. Of the, of the host. 384 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:58,920 Right. So when you propose the idea of that party, um, my imagination might go to, Oh, 385 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:03,480 it was my best friend who's at that party. Um, right. Or my imagination might go, Oh, 386 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,880 I'm going to a party with Megan, but I don't know anybody there. And I'm not sure if I'm 387 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:13,440 welcome in this house yet or not. Right. So even us, like every different opportunity 388 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:19,760 we come across, we're going to have a unique, you know, and what are the person that answers 389 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:24,560 the door is super attractive and you're single, you know, like maybe you don't want to talk 390 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,280 to anybody else and you just say, Hey, let's go on a date instead. Um, you know, there's 391 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:32,440 all sorts of things that could happen. Tells me that you like to think about every possible 392 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,440 scenario. I love possible scenarios. So I'd be like, you know, what you're great at is 393 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,440 the market research portion of sales. And I want you to lean into that, but I want you 394 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:45,400 to limit it. So set a timer for your research because if you don't, you're going to get 395 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,920 dragged down the rabbit hole a lot and end up spending 60 minutes researching a company. 396 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,120 And then you're going to go to call their number and it's not going to work or their 397 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,920 email is going to bounce back and that's going to suck. Maybe. So that tells me about you 398 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:01,540 that you are very self-assured. Um, and to the degree where you'll tell people what they 399 00:37:01,540 --> 00:37:08,240 need to do and that's okay. Um, reality. So, um, if you were my sales person, right? Like 400 00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:13,000 if I was sales coaching you, your response would tell me enough about yourself that I'd 401 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,680 be like, okay, let's start talking about, these are going to be your strengths. That's 402 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,720 the brilliance of two self-assured people coming together though, and respecting each 403 00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:24,360 other's space. Whereas, you know, it's funny cause some people would be like, well, wait 404 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,400 a second, Megan, you're just arguing. You're not, you're not listening. You're not hearing 405 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:33,260 me. You know, you're not, you're not respecting her. No, we're, we're learning to communicate 406 00:37:33,260 --> 00:37:39,080 with each other. There is a healthy dialogue when we don't fear healthy conflict. Right. 407 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:45,880 So that's what sales is all about too. That's part of sales too. Right. Is like, there's, 408 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:50,680 there's a dialogue that's going to happen. And I think people, there's this whole concept 409 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:57,920 in sales, right? That's overcoming objections. I throw that out completely. Really interesting. 410 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:06,920 I believe in diffusing anxieties because first of all, if I've done my job, right, we shouldn't 411 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:12,580 be coming into objections in the final hour. Right. So when objections, when it really 412 00:38:12,580 --> 00:38:17,920 is framed as an objection is when you're trying to close something, like you're trying to 413 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:22,760 push them to do a behavior and they're like, no, I don't want to do the behavior. Like 414 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,880 whether that's, I'm trying to close you on meeting with me, or I'm trying to close you 415 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:34,560 on signing a contract, whatever. If I do my job well, I should be the one qualifying you 416 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:43,080 out before we get to an objection anyways. So using what anxieties, anxieties. I like 417 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:50,480 that. And sometimes I call it diffusing objections. Cause you know, SEO needs me to use the word 418 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:56,080 objection. Well, you can use SEO by constantly going out against overcoming objections. Yeah. 419 00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:00,400 And calling it this, like diffusing anxieties versus overcoming objections. And so if I've 420 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,000 done, let's just like, we're assuming that I did my job right. I qualified out the people 421 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,400 who weren't really interested, who were going to object. Yep. Then really what's going to 422 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:15,040 happen through the sales process is you as the buyer would bring to me your anxieties, 423 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:20,880 your questions, your, your worries about what can happen next. And so then it's my job to 424 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:29,400 diffuse that however possible. And that's where like a lot of conflict can happen in 425 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:35,580 sales, especially when the moat, one of the most important things as a sales person is 426 00:39:35,580 --> 00:39:41,280 to disconnect from the outcome, right? Like I need to detach myself from the potential 427 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:48,440 outcome of this interaction and not take it personally. There's, there's this like messaging 428 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,760 that floats around in the sales space all the time about like people buy from people 429 00:39:51,760 --> 00:40:01,820 they like. Depends on the sell. People tend to not buy from people they don't like. Right. 430 00:40:01,820 --> 00:40:05,080 But they don't just automatically buy from people because they like them. Someone can 431 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:11,940 like me a whole lot, but have no need for what I do. Right. And, and so like detaching 432 00:40:11,940 --> 00:40:17,980 myself from the outcome and realizing that it's not personal. And then then it decreases 433 00:40:17,980 --> 00:40:22,120 the likelihood of conflict. Even though like I'm an extremely opinionated person and I'm 434 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:28,880 a very confident person. When someone doesn't want to buy from me, that's still okay. As 435 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:34,280 long as for me, right. I go through a checklist in my head where I'm like, did I do everything 436 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:45,680 right? Hi, Megan. Um, did I do the things that I needed to do? And if I did, then great. 437 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:51,120 That person wasn't a good fit for us. Or maybe I made a mistake and that's also okay because 438 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:56,120 I'm going to learn from that mistake and I'm going to work on doing it better next time. 439 00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:03,200 And sometimes the mistake is even, I let this conversation go on too long. Right. Like you 440 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:08,120 were never going to buy from me. Yeah. Yeah. There's a, there's a lot of opportunities 441 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:15,760 there. Uh, sales is, you know, influence, um, you know, in a lot of respects, um, the 442 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:22,480 ability to help people see either what I think unethical selves is when you're attached at 443 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:27,160 all to the outcome for your own selfish needs. That's why, that's why I believe in the same 444 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:31,760 concept of disattach, but I do believe in it to the point of we're disattach because 445 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:37,400 if you're attached to the cell, you're not doing it for the person that you're serving. 446 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:43,120 So my number one rule is, is do what's best for the person that I serve. Um, which means 447 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:48,600 I can't go into this with preconceived notions of what I want and be authentically serving 448 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:56,640 that individual. Eli wild talks about the 10 clarities of, of cells and how, um, you 449 00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,440 know, what, what, what systems exist. So I would agree with this diffusing anxieties 450 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:04,800 aspect. I love it. It's also what I believe in from my team standpoint of things that they 451 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:10,440 need to do. And you're 100% right that 99.9% of the time, if you get to the finish line 452 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:15,280 and they're not able to move forward, it's usually because something was overlooked that 453 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:20,480 should have been talked about or a question could have been asked. The biggest clarity 454 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:29,080 that I think, um, still can become an objection is trust though. Um, and it depends. Am I 455 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:36,800 buying a lollipop from you for 25 cents? You know, or in the case of my business, are people 456 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:41,720 bringing us in to build the infrastructure for their entire vision, for their legacy? 457 00:42:41,720 --> 00:42:46,880 That's a much deeper conversation, much deeper level of commitment. There are hundreds and 458 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:52,360 thousands of realities people may want to and need to consider before they decide like, 459 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:56,680 Oh, I'm going to do this or buying luxury home. You're going to have more objections 460 00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:03,760 overcome more. And when I say objections overcome more diffusing to do throughout the process 461 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:08,240 to make sure people know they're safe, you know, in your hands. Oh, a hundred percent 462 00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:15,000 like that building trust building rapport is huge. And I, I'm sure you're familiar 463 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:20,240 with Bant right. Budget authority need timeline. Nope. I don't, I don't do a lot of acronyms 464 00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:24,760 apparently. You're going to breathe it. I'm like, they go in and out of my head, but I, 465 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:29,960 you know, go ahead and get what you're talking about now. Bant is a framework from IBM from 466 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:35,800 like way back at the very beginning of tech sales, like began and Bant became a thing. 467 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:41,280 Budget authority need timeline. That's what you have to qualify to make sure that someone 468 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:47,440 should even be buying from you. Right. That's, that's our qualification criteria. Not specifically 469 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:53,440 ours, but like the overall world to sort of agree on. Right. It's like always be closing 470 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:59,080 or the frameworks that they stand on themselves has their own framework. Bank has their methodology, 471 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:03,880 their Kool-Aid that they drink to all these tactics, right? Bant is a tactic. Go ahead. 472 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:11,360 Yeah. So I talk about Bantur being budget authority need timeline and risk. Being aware 473 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:20,260 of how much risk you're asking someone to take and just how risky it really is for them. 474 00:44:20,260 --> 00:44:24,680 So in the case of like ripping and replacing someone's tech support, you know, whether 475 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:29,720 it's an internal company or we're trying to bring in some, they're already outsourcing. 476 00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:35,920 We're trying to bring in a new company to replace them. There's some pretty big risk 477 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:40,280 associated with changing the technical infrastructure of my business. We all rely on it. Like what 478 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:44,120 happens if the phone doesn't work and the internet doesn't work? That's a, we're not 479 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:49,800 making any money for most businesses today. And similarly, like if I'm doing an entire 480 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:57,880 brand build for somebody that's including like vision, mission, branding, their purpose, 481 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:03,280 that's a big risk to take. Not just on the side of how much money I'm asking them to 482 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:11,480 spend, but also what if I do a bad job and they're confidently taking bad messaging to 483 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:19,800 market? You know, that's big risk versus, you know, if you come from like a lot of my clients 484 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:26,480 come from a SaaS background where they're selling software and sometimes there's risk, 485 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,840 but it's like throwing away money risk. So if you're asking an enterprise company like 486 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:37,920 Disney to throw away 20 K, that's actually not very risky. 487 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:45,600 Right. And it's in, that's everybody has a different comfort zone and level with thresholds 488 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,860 in terms of budget and what they want to do. There's so many angles we can go down this. 489 00:45:49,860 --> 00:45:53,960 We are out of time to dive too deep into more concepts, but visionaries who are listening 490 00:45:53,960 --> 00:46:01,160 in, I hope that your takeaway on this is to realize that depth matters. Principles matter. 491 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:07,040 Knowing your philosophies matter. Knowing your core values matter. If there's one final 492 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:13,280 thing I would add to this, when it comes to ethical sales, the best thing you can do as 493 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:19,680 a visionary is learn how to hire ethical sales people. And it may seem simple like, Oh, I'll 494 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,680 just put a job description. Yeah. Your job description is going to be awful if you do 495 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:29,120 it. I'm just going to grab a template. You know, that template is going to have no depth 496 00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:35,000 to it. I'm just going to do an interview with this for your interview process is missing. 497 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:40,680 Like you're, you're got, you need some help on this. So if you gravitate towards Megan, 498 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,560 that process, you gravitate towards first-class business on that process, you gravitate towards 499 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:50,800 Sam, their sales Institute on the process or Oracle and learning. There's, there's a 500 00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:56,040 lot to be learned and your vision in order to clarify your vision so that people will 501 00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:01,760 want to belong to it, that people will want to invest in it to help you become irresistible. 502 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:07,760 What you do and overcome trust factors, be careful about who it is that, you know, be 503 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,640 intentful. Who it is you bring in because I can't tell you how many companies I've 504 00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:16,680 seen fail that said, Oh, we just hired the number one sales rep from Nike or we just 505 00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:21,040 hired the number one marketer from Airbnb. We just hired the number one person from Cisco 506 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:27,320 and beyond, beyond, beyond, and that's one of the worst things a visionary can do. And 507 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:32,920 it's one of the worst sales person for a startup environment. Why I'll tell you, because if 508 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:37,720 you're the best sales rep for Disney, I'm calling you out person who won the award today 509 00:47:37,720 --> 00:47:44,720 or this year, you're the fastest paper pusher. You don't need to sell Disney tickets. I'm 510 00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:49,200 buying my tickets, whether you want to sell them to me or not, cause that's where I'm 511 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:56,220 taking my kiddos for more for our vacation, right? You have very, very little sales skills 512 00:47:56,220 --> 00:48:01,640 outside of that incubated environment. And I'm not saying you're a bad person. I'm saying 513 00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:07,280 we all have a lot to learn about new scenarios. So part of the ethics is being hungry and 514 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:11,440 willing to learn new things like Megan talked about. 515 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:15,240 You can really break your culture with a bad sales hire too. So if they're not checking 516 00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:21,920 bonds, every single core value, right? Every single core value. Yes. And let's be honest, 517 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:28,800 like you probably don't have the same culture and values as Amazon or Nike. Like you have 518 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:34,960 your own values and it's more important that your sales hire meets your values than that 519 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,120 they hit quota every single quarter at their last company. 520 00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:43,800 Absolutely. I love it. Thank you so much for that. And yes, anybody who wants to connect 521 00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,040 further with Megan, we'll have it. We'll have her links in the landing page as well. We'd 522 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,320 love to get your book on there as well. Megan, the one you talked about that we got to get 523 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:55,520 into, we got to read. Megan, do you only hire Megan's? I'm just kidding. 524 00:48:55,520 --> 00:49:01,120 We do have a joke that we only hire women with M names. It's not entirely true, but 525 00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,640 it's like 60% of the staff. 526 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,360 That's awesome. Well, thank you again for blessing us with your knowledge. We wish you 527 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:11,760 the best on your continued path. We are one of those strategic partners who's very excited 528 00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:17,360 to find out more about, okay, what type of coexistence can exist there? What opportunities 529 00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:21,880 are we looking at? So we'll explore that. Vision pros or anybody who says, I might have 530 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:27,800 a vision to talk about, be our guest, go to the landing page, apply for the process. We're 531 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:33,440 looking for people who have a vision of serving others. And that may be globally like Mark 532 00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:40,920 Zuckerberg and Bill Gates and Toby Keith and beyond. It may be that you have something 533 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:45,160 going on in your local neighborhood that means a lot to people. We'd love to meet you and 534 00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:49,080 we'll see you guys in the next episode. Megan, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me, 535 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,720 Jackson. Absolutely. Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy that you tuned in 536 00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:58,280 to vision pros live. I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue 537 00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:02,080 to move forward. This is going to get more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement 538 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:06,000 as well. We'll invite people to participate in the show and thank you for giving us your 539 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:16,680 time and attention.