So we are live and we've got,
you're looking for the books already.
You're gonna show us what they are.
That's fun.
Can't hear you too well, but we'll see that.
So we got Andy Churchill on from Montreal.
We're gonna be learning about presentations, research,
complex realities before we do that though.
Andy, what are the resources?
Three books.
There you go.
I was pulling them off the shelf.
I love it.
One's called Escape from the Ivory Tower
about talking about research with people who aren't academics.
One's called Talk Like Ted,
which is Carmine Gallo's book about Ted's stage.
And one of the things I really appreciate that
as someone in academia is he's got some research in it.
A lot of these kind of business best practice talk books
don't have a lot of science in them.
They're not necessarily bad, but...
They're not the effective executive
and they're not tribal leadership.
They're a little bit more watered down.
Yeah, and they just, when you work with researchers,
researchers want research.
They want stuff that's backed by research.
Of course.
And then Gallo's got a nice combination of his own,
his own experience and then also some science in it.
So that's cool.
And then for people interested in slides,
I'm actually moving more and more away from slides,
but Duarte's slideology, Nancy Duarte has been,
she's been on top of the slide and speaking game
for a long time.
So those are three good ones.
Thank you for that.
We'll absolutely, I think we're gonna revisit this topic
of slides and moving away from slides
because it should be a topic of interest
for everyone that wants to be effective in presenting
in 2024 and moving forward.
So we'll be right back and we'll dive in.
All right, welcome in to Vision Pros Live.
With Jackson Calame, I'm your show host.
We'll be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs
and guest leaders who are building
fantastic visions out there.
Hey there and welcome in to another episode
of Vision Pros Live.
I'm your host Jackson Calame, founder and CEO
of First Class Business.
And I'm excited to have Andy Churchill here today.
We're gonna be talking about presentations,
the gift of presenting, making complex realities simplified
so that it's easy for people to understand
what it is that you're up to.
Probably even how to present to different audiences.
We already started talking about why research matters.
Again, we'll dive back into that in just a minute.
First, let's talk about some of these sponsors that we have.
So we're gonna start with the Wellness Shop 365
with Sean Lechuga.
Sean founded the Wellness 365 with a hope to inspire
his audience to move towards an integrative approach
towards wellness, wellbeing and nutrition.
And I love that he focuses on what's called
the 365 Will of Life Assessment.
And it's basically got 10 categories or so
that showcase, you know, rating yourself
on a scale of one to 10.
What's your joy look like?
What's your creativity look like?
What's your family life look like?
The idea that there are practitioners out there
who care about us beyond the basic principles,
I you can feel it down to our간
the wheel, thank you.
We'll go down to that and that way you can,
you guys can see the concepts.
What he's going to be turning
this into and how well it's gonna help people.
It's just very exciting to me.
It reminds me of Mazzo's hierarchy of needs,
which most people haven't heard of.
You might look that up if you haven't heard of it before.
We're gonna move over to Melissa Gray in the Lawspot.
The Lawspot is Melissa's,
basically, I need to introduce Melissa and Andy
because she simplifies complex processes as well.
What she's up to is teaching people
that when it comes to legal matters for business,
it doesn't have to be complicated.
It can be more simple.
Her nurturing personality made me really fall in love
with her processes and realize that business owners who
need help from a legal standpoint, well,
they often hire somebody last minute,
or maybe they've entrusted legal Zoom or something that's
a little bit too much of a template.
And then when you get to a point where somebody is sending you
a demand letter or a cease and desist or a trademark lawsuit,
et cetera, you don't necessarily know who to turn to,
she's who I would recommend turning to and interviewing.
And we'll move on to the Water Project now.
So the Water Project is the entity
that we choose to support and give back the most to.
There's millions of people in this world who don't have access
to clean drinking water.
And there's an opportunity for us to bring water to them.
And the Water Project breaks down their projects
kind of like a Kickstarter.
You get to see the community that you're going to be helping.
Then if you've donated to that project,
they're going to send you an update for what
they did with the money and the project moving forward.
You get to see the impact that you have.
And if you're in a position to where
it makes sense to help out, then we
would love to see you go into that.
If you're not, but you can share this idea,
it's very possible that you'll touch the life of somebody who
you've been and therein lies your opportunity
to contribute to the 8 billion people in this world who
don't have access to even or the luxury to listen
to a podcast like this one.
So if we can give back, awesome.
If you know of a cause that you'd like us to give back to,
then by all means, don't hesitate to bring it up
and drop a comment with that cause, the link in there.
We will take a look at it.
We'll see if there's a way that we can help or support it
as well.
We might share it on the show even.
And we appreciate you looking out for those out there
who have less fortunate circumstances than we
do as visionaries listening to the show.
So without further ado, Andy Churchill,
I'm excited to have you on the stage.
Welcome to Vision Pros Live.
Cheers, thanks for having me.
Absolutely.
Love that you're working with Water for Life.
It's amazing to think people don't have water.
Isn't it?
It's, yeah.
Right on the heels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs,
you nailed it there.
You didn't even realize you did it.
Right.
Maybe, maybe I didn't.
Maybe I did.
But yeah, it is hard to fathom.
It's so hard to talk about because it's like, well,
I've got it within 10 feet of me.
In this case, I've got it in my hand.
But I never want to take that for granted.
Other news, other research news, big day today.
Cameroon, just Cameroon, it wasn't today.
It's been going on for about six months now.
We got a vaccine for kids for malaria.
Oh, OK.
And it's big.
It's big.
Like water, we take water for granted.
Malaria is a big disease in the world.
And it hits kids particularly hard.
And the malaria vaccine story is a long one.
But it's starting to hit.
It's getting in kids' arms.
Saving lives.
Well, thank you for letting us know.
We'll make sure to drop a comment as well on the landing
page or a link to learn more about that.
If you have a specific link, we're a great resource.
We can learn about that.
Andy, I'd love to put it involved in our materials.
Yeah.
I just noticed the article in The Guardian today.
And I've been following the science behind it for a while.
But these things matter.
And that's part of why I love working in the research
space with researchers.
Right.
Yeah, researchers don't necessarily get the respect.
I think a lot of times, research gets in science either
overlooked or just pulled out of context.
Pulled out of context and get a hard time about stuff.
Yeah.
So what's your vision for those that you serve, Andy?
My vision is so that they can talk about their work
in a way that they can be proud of and people can understand.
I love it.
You kept that so succinct that it shocked me.
But that's a power right there of itself
that they can help people understand where they're
coming from on this.
And it's a good feeling when somebody understands you.
We take that for granted, too.
What's your personal vision?
What do you look forward to accomplishing?
Or what do you see on your horizons?
So my vision in this space, I was thinking about this.
My vision in this space is that you imagine
you're sitting at a cocktail party and you ask someone.
And they're like, what are you?
I'm a scientist.
I'm a researcher is the answer.
And usually the response is like, oh, no.
My vision is the response is, oh, cool.
Can you tell me stories about your work?
Yeah.
And if you're a researcher and you tell people
you're a researcher, people want to know more.
But it's got to start with researchers getting better
at sharing their stories.
And that's what I work on.
But my imagination takes me to the point
that get enough researchers good enough at doing this
that instead of people rolling their eyes and being like,
oh, I don't want to hear about this, the opposite happens.
Yeah, I love the one.
It's not limited.
That's you have that mindset of like, OK, I'm
with researchers all day.
And so this is a research oriented reality.
This applies to all of you visionaries.
Every single person in the world who has a title
and you box yourself in based on your titles.
When I represented video power marketing,
I didn't call myself an ambassador.
I didn't call myself a sales rep.
I didn't call myself an executive advisor.
Nobody cared about me.
That's not what people typically care about.
I said, we run YouTube ads.
I help companies with their YouTube ads.
Why did I do that?
Everybody loves YouTube.
And so it was fun for people to, oh, what do you mean?
How does that work?
It creates a question.
Or I would say, we run YouTube ads, but tell me about you.
What do you do?
Moving into finding out more about people,
when we start caring about the person we're in front of,
then we'll start waiting.
So I would say, not only do you researchers,
you guys are at least asking questions.
Most entrepreneurs are introducing themselves as,
you know, I'm a founder of some brand
that nobody cares about.
Ask me more about me, please.
Like, what?
You know, you've got to take interest in people.
So I still got to dive right back in.
So what's your vision for you, Andy,
and outside of this place?
You're going to be the champion to help researchers
tell better stories.
But what do you see for yourself on the horizon?
You know, I'm in a bit of a transition time
where I've been doing this now for 10 years.
And I've been doing it for 10 years.
And I've worked with almost 10,000 researchers
in those 10 years, as near as I can tell,
who have either come to a workshop
or I've worked one-on-one with.
I've worked with close to a thousand people one-on-one
over the last 10 years on an individual presentation.
And I coach a lot of events.
So, you know, I'll work with five, 10, 20 people at a time
through an event.
And that's actually my favorite way to work with people
because then they have skin in the game.
Whereas when you just do workshops teaching
about how to do this better,
they, you know, it's kind of in one ear out the other.
Maybe not, maybe it rattles around in their brain
a little bit, but until you actually do it,
that's when the magic happens.
The rubber has grown, so to speak.
It's still more fun to see that immediate impact.
Dom, I would agree with you on that.
So my, the next step for me is whether or not
I can scale it because I can't, you know,
that vision of like changing how researchers
talk about research, I can't do at a thousand people a year.
There are too many researchers.
So I'm starting to play with ways to scale.
Yep, that's awesome.
And it's that question, right, of how can I scale it, right?
And there's no easy answer on that.
Somebody can try to make that oversimplify that for you.
But I was talking to Justin Breen about this.
He was on the show and he and I had to agree to disagree.
He did not like my vision and that's okay.
We're still good friends.
We just see the world differently.
And I believe that everybody has the power
to be a visionary.
He said, no, doesn't, no, can't happen.
And I said, I don't agree and here's why.
And he didn't like my analogy either, but I still love it.
I think it applies to you.
And that's that a hundred years ago,
nobody could have done this.
200 years ago, nobody could have done this with lights.
And they wouldn't have wanted to.
Even if they'd figured it out somewhat,
it would have been so scary to do that.
You could potentially kill yourself,
playing around with a light bulb like that
or playing around with fire like that.
Somebody, right, some people, systems, researchers,
inventors figured out how to make it possible for myself.
I can pick up a book and make a light like that these days
or a YouTube video and make something like that these days.
So you're on track to unlocking,
tapping into that same code of how do I empower the masses
to be able to utilize what you've been teaching one-on-one
and one-to-many for a while.
I think that's amazing.
Thank you for doing it.
Just gonna say thank you, it's awesome.
It's a little daunting.
You know, it's funny because the catch point too,
because if you notice, I said that right on the heels
of working one-on-one with people
and people having skin in the game
and working with it at the event level.
And I haven't cracked the code on how to do both.
But yeah.
It's gonna take some hard work.
I'm only 55, I got time.
That's right, you do.
You do.
And maybe you crack half the code.
Or Thomas Edison got to where he got to,
but he didn't invent the ring light.
No, he didn't invent the ring light.
I have the ring light now.
So there's still, we make these impacts,
but I can tell that you're,
the fact that you're pondering it as deeply as you are,
the fact that you say it's daunting,
tells me how bad you're getting after it
and wanting to make it happen.
And that's admirable.
I wish more visionaries understood that that journey itself,
like that's the essence of it for me.
It's like, I enjoy the journey.
That's why I'm on this.
What's your worst leadership?
Go ahead. That's an interesting.
Go ahead, hit it.
Hit me with it.
It is the journey, man.
And that's, it drives me a little bonkers.
Some of the, you know,
LinkedIn's the primary platform I'm on,
but all the platforms are the same where it's like,
you get these like fast, quick hits of like
exponential growth.
And it's about, it's about like a finish.
Like how do I get there as fast as I, it's like,
it's about the journey.
Like how do you grow?
How do you learn?
Like I look at, you know, my footprint on LinkedIn's gone
from 500 to 5,000 to now 25,000,
which, you know, some people think is big.
Some people, for some people it's not, for me it is.
Awesome.
But the, but the journey
has been about exploring what it means
to help people present more effectively
through a written medium or,
and a little bit of video
in 30 second soundbites.
Because that's all you got, right?
That's all you got.
And that journey has helped me be infinitely better
in my own work with people when I have an hour,
three hours, 10 hours,
and I'm working with them in detail.
But it's about learning.
It's not about like, it's not about the numbers.
It's not about like tricking the algorithm.
It's about learning yourself and helping people.
See, I appreciate that a lot because you said 30 seconds
and that's one box, right?
But on a website back in 2010, it was eight seconds.
Nowadays on a website, it's less than three seconds
to be able to influence.
And if you're, and if you look at the opportunities in life
and say, well, wait a second,
how does this apply to my everyday life?
I'm a master at capturing people's tension in person.
And it serves me well.
Cause when I saw that dude driving off
and he hadn't removed the gas pump from his car,
and I'm like, whoa, and I hit it hard and he stops,
it saved the gas station, it saved his car.
It was an opportunity to make a profound impact
in somebody's life.
And so I love that you said, we don't box ourselves in.
We look at the opportunities.
Sometimes we have five minutes, sometimes we have 50,
and sometimes we have the head nod opportunity.
And if they catch the head nod eye to eye,
and then you're like, all right, bro,
like we can catch up now.
So lots of opportunities.
Let's dive into a dark subject.
What's your, you've had a lot of research experience.
What's your worst leadership experience ever?
I was, you know, I was thrust into a leadership position
before I was ready.
I don't know if one's ever ready,
but I definitely wasn't ready.
And I had a positive impact on the community.
Like I did my job well,
I was in a position where I was ready to do my job.
Like I did my job well,
but the leadership component of it,
it was a fricking train wreck.
I've been there many times.
It was a train wreck.
I mean, I was just full of imposter syndrome and anxiety.
And, you know, I don't know, have you ever done a 360,
you know, one of those 360 reviews?
Evaluation.
Oh, I did one of those and I was 26,
and I don't think anybody else in the room was under 40.
And it was with the senior leadership team,
maybe under 35, right?
I was 26 and they were 35 with kids.
And it was a school, so like no kids, no,
like, and I wasn't teaching.
I was running the admissions part of the school.
Most entrepreneurs have never done a 360 evaluation
or they've attempted it
without actually going the full 360 degrees.
So that is one of the most important elements, visionaries,
that you can look up, learn about, research it on YouTube,
ask Andy about it.
Go ahead.
So you got grilled in the 360 evaluation.
It was brutal.
But it was true, you know?
So all these executives-
There's a difference between being smart and being wise.
There's a difference.
Like, I just gotta keep remembering that, right?
Like I, you know, people would tease me and say,
you know, you think you're the smartest guy in the room
and who knows, I might've been,
but I sure as hell wasn't the wisest.
Yeah.
And when you realize it's not about being right,
it's not about, it's about empathy.
It's about giving other people space.
It's not about having the answer.
But when I was 25, I just wanted to have the answer.
Yeah.
We were the same.
We were in a clash.
We were in a clash of titans.
We probably would have been friends too,
but probably it would have been difficult.
We either would have been best friends
or at each other's throats or a little of both.
Probably a little bit of both.
Yep, I get you on that.
What's your best leadership experience look like?
I think it's my next one.
I think it's the one that's just starting right now.
It's coming.
And I'm getting more and more opportunities.
And this is the scaling question.
I'm starting to have more and more opportunities
to build programs where I don't have to teach all the time.
So the McGill three-minute thesis competition,
which is you take grad student researchers,
one static slide, three minutes, tell me about your work.
And there are 175 students, 175 grad students
that McGill signed up to participate right now.
And the people who are running the workshops,
who are doing the training, aren't me
because there's not enough anymore, right?
So there are students who participated last year
and the year before, and I'm starting to train the trainer.
And then I go and I do this small group coaching work
and they're in the room and I watch them coach.
And they blow me away.
That's awesome.
Like if I can just shut up and watch.
Because it's hard.
You come in and you're like,
and I've been doing it by myself for so long.
I mean, when you asked me
about my worst leadership experience, that was 20 years.
No shit, that was almost 30 years ago.
That was 25 years ago.
And between then and now, like since 2005,
I've been solo and now I have a team again.
So there's like 20 years between leadership experience.
And there were a few in between.
Like I was on the board.
I did seven, eight years stint on a board
at a local food bank.
Nice.
And that was a big time leadership experience.
That might actually been one of my best.
Didn't have a happy ending,
but actually from a leadership standpoint,
I, well, you don't wanna hear it.
You wanna hear that story?
Well, I would, but let's do this.
Let's save that for a new segment post call.
That way we can-
We'll get back to the research.
We can have something to move towards as well.
But sometimes our best leadership experiences
and opportunities don't end the happiness
with that happy ending.
I mean, I'm twice as happy as you.
I'm happy ending, I mean, I'm twice divorced,
but my best leadership experience and opportunity
to raise my four kids,
and to try to have that family and that household,
it matters tremendously to me.
And so it's not always the story we want to tell,
but sometimes there's great opportunities to learn from it.
Your period of time as well as now that you've developed
and you're a leader at a new opportunity,
you probably have more opportunity to self reflect
on things you wanna do different this time
around and move forward.
But what really struck my attention
about what you said with the journey, Andy,
is the pit stops that entrepreneurs don't wanna acknowledge.
Look at the Indy 500, these cars that race around,
you'd think, well, if the car just keeps going,
it's gonna win, right?
You've got a pit stop opportunity right now,
but if your crew has not put the other wheel on,
theoretically, you will go forward faster.
You will make more progress faster than if you wait
for him to put the fourth wheel back on.
We will completely destroy and ruin your opportunity
to win the race.
And business owners often don't wanna acknowledge
the pit stop, they don't wanna hear about it,
they don't wanna look at it,
they just wanna go, go, go like you were talking about.
And it's not a pretty ending if they keep going.
So before we dive in to presentations,
last nugget of wisdom we'll go over.
If you could share one final powerful lesson
with visionaries that they can learn from your experience,
what would it be?
What would the last lesson be?
I think for me, I'll stay with this theme
and say quality over speed.
I think that some of the tech lessons
of like go fast and break things, I don't know.
Maybe, not for me, not for me.
And maybe actually that's the real lesson
is that whatever this week's hot theory is,
it doesn't have to be right for you.
It doesn't like, this week's hot theory
is just this week's hot theory.
Wait six months, wait five years,
someone else will be doing the exact opposite
and saying it's the best thing since sliced bread.
True.
I love this concept.
I mean, I've read a lot about billionaires
and multimillionaires, which I'm not either of.
And there's a common trend and theme that comes up
in some of the more harmonious articles that come out
that say one of their powers, secret powers
is the ability to say no.
The ability to realize that they might be spreading too thin.
Then there's people who say just do the one thing
and Gary Keller, I love you and I love your book.
And at the same time,
LeVron James was told to just shut up a dribble
and I'm glad he didn't.
He's got a dynamic personality
with a lot of things he can get done.
He does the promise school.
I mean, he's got all of his business ventures outside
of the NBA as well.
But like you said, he's not following what-
Yeah, I mean, look at what the NBA has done
because LeVron James didn't shut up and dribble, right?
And he was able, because of his position,
unlike the NFL could shut down-
Colin Kaepernick.
Our quarterback, Colin Kaepernick, right?
Like Kaepernick tried to, you know,
he was true to himself
and we're still talking about him, right?
But the NFL hasn't been able to achieve the same impact,
I don't think that the NBA has
and part of it like LeVron James, right?
Like he opened it up for people.
I haven't done enough research
to fully opinionate beyond the swag, right?
The scientific wild ass guess.
But my swag opinion would be that I'm with you there.
And here's what I would look at
as looking at the NBA players and the NFL players,
from what I understand, the amount of players who go broke
after their careers who are left broken
because they weren't prepared for life
for the NFL is far more staggering.
The statistics are far worse saying
that NFL players end up in really bad situations
comparatively to the NBA, which from what I've seen,
have programs built around personal development.
You know, Kevin Love and DeMar DeRozan
came out with commercials about going to therapy
and how that's important and helpful for them.
They seem to take more public initiatives
to be involved in causes, be able to speak their minds,
have opinions without being crucified for it.
So I would look at the stats of which individuals' lives
seem to be longer and which ones also seem to be
well-prepared for life beyond the game.
So quality, quality over speed.
I like that a lot.
I think quality over speed, quality never, quality never.
I mean, you know, then you get into the analysis paralysis
space and all that.
So there's, you know, there's a harmony.
There's a harmony.
Yeah.
I mean, we get into like, when's the right time
to make a decision versus how much information you have
and the quality of the decision.
But I just feel like, I feel like part of the,
part of the tack revolution has taken us
to the wrong side of the pendulum.
Yeah.
What's the good news about a pendulum though?
It comes back, baby.
It comes back.
I'm just waiting.
Right.
That's true.
That's that is well, that is well said.
I am, you know, I think we're waiting,
but at the same time, Andy, we're leading it, you know,
by talking about it, you know, by, by making sure
that we're doing, taking actions about it.
And so I'm with you on that, man.
I'm, I learned, I learned the value of the tech swing,
the get it out there, raw, ugly, dirty launch.
And I'm so grateful for it from Jake Larsen
of Video Power Marketing.
You know, when he asked me if he should launch his course
and he said, Jackson, you're the most critical person I know.
I need your feedback.
Should I do this or not?
And I was like, wow, that's the worst compliment
I've ever received in my life.
And I said, I'm sorry, Jake, I know, so hard on him
and our previous engagement.
So I didn't want to give him feedback,
but he knew he needed it.
So I took his little course for creating video ads
that drive conversions and sales back in 2010 or 11.
And I said, dude, this is amazing.
I mean, I always said, you know,
before I told him to go on it, I said,
and it's awful, like I need to fix it.
So I gave him all sorts of feedback.
I probably put 40 hours of work into it
in addition to running my own startup.
And part of it was like, okay,
I'm using this for my startup too.
So this is justified, right?
So I sent him all those notes and he launched.
He didn't care about my notes.
He didn't put a single period or comma or change.
He just launched.
Ryan Dice put him on stage six months later,
called him YouTube ad expert of the world,
and the rest is history.
VideoPower became the YouTube ad experts of the world
and did some awesome campaigns.
I learned the value of that 80% launch rule,
but a lot of tech startups are doing the 8%
or the 0.8% rule.
And they're launching with almost nothing saying,
oh, I'm a fractional COO.
I've never been a COO in my life.
I don't even know what a COO does,
but I'll claim the title because it gets me hired.
Well, like we're running into dangerous territory
as a market, as a business industry
when we don't self-regulate or we're not regulated.
I prefer we start self-regulating
so that we don't have to be regulated too fiercely,
but we have the opportunity to lead that.
So tell me about crafting impact.
Let's dive into that.
Crafting impactful research messages
to simplify painfully complex realities.
The mic is yours.
I'm here, I'll just ask random questions as you go.
I struggle a bit with the word simplify.
I bet you do.
I like to think of it as making accessible.
You know, as simple as you can be without being simpler.
I think too often, you know, we get these catchphrases,
right, like the simplicity beyond the complexity.
Hold on, I wanna interrupt you for something funny.
I'm just teasing you on it,
but your vision was the one
that had the word simplified in it.
I had to go check.
I was like, did I put the word on him?
Oh yeah, your vision sentence.
It definitely says, let's read it real quick.
My vision is to convert complex problems and solutions
into a simplified message.
Great research presentations are rare,
but they don't have to be.
Yeah, here's the challenge.
So how do you be simple without being too simple?
And how do you create understanding?
Understanding, and part of it is getting as simple
as you can, right?
Yes.
But also not oversimplifying.
What if they speak Spanish?
Right, new angle on that.
The simplification then changes gears completely.
So I'm with you.
That's why it's so hard to simplify.
What we call simple is not necessarily simple
to the other person.
Thank you, knowledge.
There's a study in Harvard from a long time ago
called the curse of knowledge.
So if I give this water bottle to a caveman,
you know how to drink out of this,
that dude's probably gonna take a rock
and break the sucker open.
That's what we call common sense when we condescend.
And as visionaries, we tend to condescend
at everybody about our visions.
Why don't you get it?
Like this makes perfect.
Well, it makes sense to you.
Well, go ahead, Andy, let's jump right back on.
It makes sense to you, right.
We always make sense to ourself, right?
And that's the, I think part of what I provide
when I work with people, some of it is
thinking about systems that help us get to
what we wanna be talking about,
whether that's through story or metaphor
or some sort of scripted exercise.
And some of that is just providing a mirror
or a translation.
So the mirror is, do you know what you just said?
And saying back to someone so they can hear it
because they hear it and they're like, did I really say this?
I remember from my own PhD,
as I was editing my PhD, my wife's an editor.
She works in the newspaper world
and we'd edit in the car, but she'd get car sick.
So she couldn't edit in the car.
So I'd read aloud to her.
Oh man, boy, did I say some shit that didn't make sense.
I'm like, okay, you don't have to say anything.
Exactly.
Just drive in the car.
I'm like, don't say it.
Don't look at me, just keep driving.
So some of it is that, and then some of it is just,
I have a knack for taking something
and I'm like, I'm gonna take it.
I'm gonna take it for taking something that someone said
and saying it back and I'll get some of the facts wrong.
Like, oh, but it'll make sense.
It might be inaccurate and then they can fix it.
Yes.
Then their job is to fix it.
But my job is to repackage it in a way.
Andy, I can see you drive a healthy dose.
You actually drive a healthy dose of doubt,
of self doubt, ironically, in some of what you do.
You've done it on this podcast a couple of times
and it's not a bad thing.
It creates-
Tell me more about that.
I will.
What do you mean when you say that?
Why did you ask?
So in relation to just some of the questions
or even when we were talking beforehand,
like do we need the presentation or not?
Or when you talked about simplification,
you said, or I use the word simplified.
You said, no, it's not what I meant.
We went back to your statement
and I kind of call you out on that or whatever.
But that when you create an environment
where there's less certainty
and it's in a healthy, protected environment,
now we can incubate a far more clear mastermind session
because we're exploring perspectives and paradigms
that aren't our gut instincts.
That makes sense.
It's weird how that makes sense, isn't it?
It's almost like that doesn't make sense,
but again, it does.
That's what masterminding is all about
is looking at the devil, be the devil's advocate,
be the angel's advocate,
explore what's the worst case and the best case scenario
except both, and what are all the routes possible in between
but doing so effectively and efficiently
in a healthy environment.
That's why, I mean, at some level,
that's why I like coming on podcasts.
Yeah.
Right?
You come and you talk about this stuff and it's not easy.
Like I'm not sitting here like...
I got a big question to ask you.
Is that okay?
Yeah, yeah.
I'm gonna tee up with a scenario.
So let's pretend 100 million people
listened to you last week.
And naturally, because there's 100 million who are listening,
you're gonna have a line of people who are like,
I dig it, I'm ready to go.
I don't care what you said on stage.
They're just ready.
They know they need to get,
they've got painful, complex realities.
They can't communicate.
What's my next step?
So now we got these thousand people that are right here.
Where do you take them from there?
What does it look like?
One at a time or a thousand at a time?
No, a thousand.
Like we're all ready to go.
Can you tell yourselves if we gotta get in line?
A thousand at a time,
I take you through the four pieces that I think
one of which is the thing that's preventing you
from being effective on stage.
You mind revealing those four?
One of them's content.
So one of them's like the actual message.
One of them's visuals.
We talked about it earlier.
It's like most people,
their PowerPoint is actually a problem.
Their PowerPoint's interfering with their ability
to communicate their message.
It's visual, verbal vomit.
Got it.
What's the next one?
The other one's body language, voice.
And the last one is imposter syndrome, speaking anxiety.
Ooh, loud, smooth, less of a fear.
And you gotta get all of those.
If I don't know what your problem is,
then I just talk about those things
and talk about ways to rethink those things.
And that's what I do with LinkedIn.
I talk about one of those four things
and I talk about one little sliver of it.
And 1,000 people see it, 2,000 people see it,
5,000 people see it, sometimes 20,000 people see it.
And for me, I'm like,
I don't even know how many people see it.
And for two or three people,
or maybe 10 people,
it moved the dial.
It was like, oh man, that's helpful.
And so with 1,000 people,
it's a little bit of like-
Let's jump in a little bit.
Exactly.
So I'm gonna push a little bit further
and you're gonna say, Jackson, I don't do 1,000 people.
I'm happy, let's make this workshops with,
I'm only gonna take 10 of you forward.
Who are the right 10 people?
What are their qualifications,
pre-qualifications to be ready for that?
And then what do you do with them?
So when I'm working with 10 people, they present.
Instead of me presenting, they present.
Perfect.
And then I give them, then I know which lever.
Right, now you're doing the,
not necessarily a 360 degree evaluation,
but you're doing a,
I have done this for thousands of people,
and now you're able to dissect exactly what they're doing.
I just know which lever.
Like, what's the thing that's gonna unlock,
what's the highest ROI?
Like a movie critic,
but you're doing it for things that matter.
No offense, movie critics, but-
Like if somebody sends me a five or 10 minute video,
I'll send you back three things
that'll make you better, dramatically.
But I won't send you back more than three things.
And I had a friend-
You'll do that for anybody?
I'll do that for anybody.
I have a friend of mine who did this and said,
you should be doing this with,
like you should be doing this with like the super exacts,
and you should say, listen,
it'll only take you 10 minutes,
but it'll cost you a thousand dollars.
And it takes me about an hour,
cause I sit and I go through it.
Did you have a conversation with your friend
about the power of the word should?
Yeah.
And anyway, what I'm getting at with that,
I'm not, I'm absolutely not,
I'm never gonna use that word with you.
I don't use it with visionaries.
Visionaries, you've never heard this too much from me,
but I try so hard not to use controlling language
and impose my will on others.
I'll invite people to do things.
I'll say what they could do,
but I never cross, I try to never cross-
You never cross this should, could.
Shoulds because I'm not your visionary,
you're the visionary.
But is that a possible strategy?
Absolutely.
And I love that you,
again, I'm calling you kind of the movie critic
in that regard.
It's one of the things that I do with the businesses
who work with two, we're optimizing.
People have to want that optimization though as well, right?
They gotta be in a position
where they're willing to receive it.
I think it's awesome that you do it.
If you're working one-on-one with somebody,
what would that process look like?
So one-on-one actually looks like the group process is,
the advantage of three or four or five on one
is that you get to watch someone else be coached.
And when I work with three or four people at the same time,
the thing that I wanna say to you
that you're going to be defensive about,
I can wait until the next person
and I can give them positive feedback.
And really what I'm doing is looking at,
so instead of, if you and I were working together,
instead of saying, Jackson, you don't pause.
You need to pause after you've said something,
which isn't true, you do pause.
You can hit me on something true.
I could wait until the next person
and listening to them, I could then look at you and say,
Jackson, what do you notice about him?
What do you notice about the space in his language?
And you'd say, well, there were silences.
You're like, and how did you feel about that?
And you'd say, well, it was kind of nice
because I could think.
So if you did more of that,
you could create that experience
for the person you're working with.
So when I work with small group,
my favorite thing is working with like three or four people
because I can do that.
My business mentor and my favorite mentor
is Monty Maldon taught me this exact same principle
because I have so much scar tissue
and so many theoretical black eyes,
broken jaws from people upset at me
for giving real sincere feedback,
people who didn't want it.
He said, Jackson, your problem is
you're the only dog to kick.
You're the only dog to kick.
And I was like, wow, like I feel that.
I can feel that when you're in a one-on-one setting,
trying to help somebody get out of their own way,
they don't wanna be touched.
They don't wanna be told.
They don't wanna be instructed.
They don't wanna be treated like children, et cetera.
It can be a very difficult, painful process
for both people to effectively move the needle.
So I love that, what you revealed there, visionaries,
this applies to your team members as well
and being able to train them to improve.
It applies probably with your kids
and your own household environments.
It might just be something that you decide to explore.
What I would add onto it though,
is picking up the book, The Five Dysfunctions of a Team.
If you're gonna move into an environment
where you start exploring people's weaknesses
or people's opportunity for growth in a group environment,
for me, that book by far,
even though it's not research-led,
and it doesn't have all research notes,
it is a 100% storybook.
Best way to read it is with Audible
because there's 17 different personalities
and it's told to that story
and the narrator does a good job.
It was a game-changing, life-changing-
Five Dysfunctions of Team?
The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lincione.
It's one of my absolute favorite books.
We have a poster similar to the one behind me here.
My team designed it.
We've integrated it.
By the way, when anybody joins our company,
that is required reading in the first week.
They have to read that
because the environment of a championship-level organization
compared to every other type of organization,
dysfunctional organization out there,
there's different habits,
there's different ways of living,
there's different ways of communicating,
and it breaks it down in a way that's very non-threatening
that allows you to realize,
is this the type of place you wanna spend time with people
or do you want an environment where you can kind of hide
and be lost and forgotten and then-
And it sets the,
it's the contract you have with each other, right?
That's right.
Healthy boundaries, contracts, agreements, you know,
what we-
I remember that from my work with things
like Project Adventure, which you may or may not know,
but it's experiential education space, right?
And working with teenagers,
like what's our contract with each other?
It's our contract with each other.
One of the things I'm doing with my own coaching,
so like this 3MT community of 175 people,
the ones who get through to the finals,
what are we doing for them next year?
And the people who do my workshops,
what are we doing for them next year?
And what I'm starting to do is build a community
of people who have been through the training.
And they have the language,
they're developing the skills to talk about presentations
and to give feedback on presentations
and to accept feedback
in a way that we've been able to grow together over time.
And the challenge always of working one-on-one
with someone is you don't have that, right?
You have to not only figure out what they need
in order to take the next step,
but then you also have to figure out
how do I deliver this to them in a way that they can hear it?
Because if you don't do that second part,
knowing the first part doesn't do you any good.
You just tied two amazing formulas together for me
that I had not previously tied together
that are gonna be a massive impact on my future.
And I appreciate that.
One is the idea, I'm a big believer that people
become much healthier in life
when they feel like they belong to something, right?
I already knew that and the community aspect as well,
thank goodness.
I learned that a long time ago,
that's why all these online courses
that are just online courses, they don't survive,
they don't thrive.
Compared to a university that has an alma mater
that you belong to,
which is why they have stood the ground for so long.
They still have the optimizations to make to stay relevant
for the next 100 years.
But nonetheless, the idea of creating an environment,
incubation where people belong,
and I didn't realize until you said it right there
that people can't belong to me or with me as an individual.
I have to sleep, right?
I have to take time off.
I have to focus on what I need to eat
and what I need to drink, et cetera.
So if I'm just trying to make it about me,
or any other entrepreneur visionaries,
and that means my relationship too,
looking back at my marriage,
always is learning opportunities and realizing, man,
we did the nomad lifestyle.
We had a very hard time establishing community.
We had individual communities,
but we didn't have a shared community.
Not like somebody who's Jewish
and stays central where they're at.
Not like somebody who's LDS
and has their career in the business,
and has their congregation,
or somebody who's Catholic,
or it doesn't have to be, again, religious driven,
but those are communities of basis that give people,
that give units, family units,
a sense of stability and belonging,
where both partners coexist for a mutual purpose,
and there's extreme power in that.
So as you build that into what you're creating, Andy,
and as I build that for what we're creating
in first class business,
it creates a certainty and a reason
for people to wanna belong.
And all you visionaries out there,
the same opportunity is very true for you
inside business and inside your family.
Any final thoughts you wanna share
before we wrap up today, Andy?
So on that, I'll give you a trio,
because our brains work well with threes, right?
Yeah.
Known, needed, cared for.
And that's part of, you know, that's what we all need.
Known, needed, cared for.
Meaning we need to be known, we need to be needed,
and we need to be cared for, or that's what we want?
That's what we want.
You know, the guy, he passed away last year,
but he was my, you know, he was my,
maybe not my first mentor, but one of my first mentors.
And he was the guy who ran the school
that I was talking about earlier.
And that was the driver behind the school.
It wasn't about creating the discipline.
It wasn't about trying to create the discipline
that would force people to be successful.
Because we were working with a lot of kids
who hadn't necessarily been successful in school.
They were struggling.
It was a second, third chance school.
But it was about them feeling no needed care for.
It's huge.
And then within that safe space, wanting to be successful.
Is there a secular book that talks about this concept
that you're familiar with?
I asked that, and here's why.
As a missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter-day Saints myself,
that's a formula we followed.
I just didn't connect it to those words
because our responsibilities or opportunities was,
make sure that the new member or the investigator
connects to the bishopric, the leaders in charge.
Make sure that they're known by them.
Two, make sure that they have an assignment,
an opportunity to contribute that they're needed.
And three, make sure that they have a friend,
and that friend and family that takes care of them.
So it was known, needed, cared for.
Maybe the concept, and so Preach My Gospel
is the resource that I have to reach back into
and study further and meditate on
how does this apply to my business.
But if there's another book
that people are more comfortable with
that doesn't mention Jesus 3,000 times,
then I'd love to know if you know of it.
I don't know where, I don't know the origin of that.
Okay, well we will rest there.
Maybe somebody will fill that in in the comments
and let us know if you've heard of that before.
If not, well awesome, we all just got a fantastic,
divine source of inspiration in my humble opinion.
As far as landing pages go,
if you wanna connect with Andy,
you'll be able to see that in the action steps
below the episode on our landing page.
If you wanna share your visions with us,
then in the top corner of the page,
you'll see a button that says Be Our Guest.
We would love to hear your wholesome visions.
You don't have to be Tony Robbins
or Michael Jordan to join us,
but Tony and Mike, dude, we'd love to have you both.
So throw that out there.
And it's been a real honor to share our visions with you.
If you have comments, definitely make them.
If you have people who would benefit from this process,
tag them in this.
You never know whose life you're blessed in the process
and we will see you on the next episode.
Andy, thanks for being here today, man.
Jackson, thanks for having me.
Thank you for being here today.
I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions
as these episodes continue to move forward.
This is gonna get more and more fun.
We'll have more and more engagement as well.
We invite people to participate in the show
and thank you for giving us your time and attention.
Have an excellent time.