Finally, what about you?
Yeah, of course.
Me as well.
The most thing I'm most excited about is spending time with my three oldest children.
My youngest will be in Mexico with her mom.
My three oldest will be with me for Christmas and lots of I have five sisters who are going
to be in town.
First time we've been together in many, many years.
So it's going to be great.
That sounds like a really nice family gathering.
Yes, hundreds of desserts.
We're all going to be much, much larger after going into 2024.
That'll be fun.
Hundreds of desserts.
Okay, tell me where you live.
Right?
For sure.
You're going to come.
Can I say hi?
Come to San Antonio.
Take a little vacation day.
I'm going there for the dessert and seeing you.
Just kidding.
We call it the heavenly bar.
That's what my grandma used to do it every year.
So my mom, my sisters picked it up this year and decided to go all out.
I'm serious.
It's like never ending desserts.
It is so cool.
So as far as what about resolutions going into the new year?
What's 20 resolutions?
Oh, there's so much to look forward to for next year.
Scaling up my business and I have a book on my way.
And yeah, I'm really excited about that.
And what else?
I guess this next year, I really wanted to have a more balance.
Like building business is hard, but keeping balance and continue to bring in that mindfulness,
that integrity for the business is important.
I'm also starting my podcast.
So I could use everyone's help.
Absolutely.
Okay.
So you're writing this book.
What are two challenges that you face with writing the book that you can warn authors about as they go through that grueling process?
I know what that feels like.
Yeah.
Two challenges.
I think the first challenge is just time.
Like every time you're working on a project, it's about time and priorities.
So knowing that I really have to be disciplined and carve out time and to make sure that it's a priority.
It's important because it's something important to me.
And the second challenge is.
All right.
Welcome in to Vision Pros Live.
With Jackson Calame, I'm your show host.
We'll be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs and guest leaders who are building fantastic visions out there.
What's up Vision Pros and welcome into another episode of Vision Pros Live.
We've got Ava Tack behind the scenes and she's in the middle of writing a book and getting her book published.
That's one of her resolutions for the upcoming year.
And she's run into the challenges, of course, of getting that book published well.
She revealed one of those secrets.
The second one, I highly recommend you reach out to her to find out about that, because today we're going to be diving into personal leadership,
culture, really some of the cores of success and how it also relates to one of the growing,
I would say an element of awareness that is so needed in relation to DEI.
If you're not familiar with that term, DEI, then I'd recommend a quick Google search.
We'll let you play with that while we're in the middle of talking about it.
You'll understand in a minute if you're not there yet.
Part of the challenge and opportunity of creating successful cultures in today's very open ended society
where everybody in the world can kind of connect, I shouldn't say everybody in the world,
but lots of people in the world can now connect together from different cultures and backgrounds,
which means that it's to our advantage and important for the success of the world to understand what DEI is.
So we'll go into that in just a minute, too.
Before I bring Ava on stage, I want to bring up the sponsors up here, of course, in the corner,
both very, very important entities to me in this case, very dear and near to my heart.
First is Patrick Creighton with Laidback Languages.
He is a language expert who has mastered and speaks six different languages fluently.
And I'm sorry, he has mastered more than that.
The six languages that I'm talking about here, though, are the languages he helps people learn and learn fast.
I speak Spanish fluently.
I'm very blessed to be able to do so.
It took a lot of hard work and took a lot of time.
He has this nurturing capacity and this understanding of how to unlock the powers of these languages
to help people learn very fast.
I think it's very cool what he's up to.
If you're in the process of learning languages, I highly recommend checking out what Patrick is up to.
Detail publishing on the other side.
If you're in the process of publishing a book like Ava or you want more,
you know the value of having strategic content online.
People say content is king.
That's that's blowing. Great content is king.
It still is, whether that's in video format or written format, shared as a blog, as a post, et cetera, as an ad.
All your content, if your content is on point and it reaches the hearts and the minds of the consumer that you're trying to help,
then it's going to help influence them moving forward.
Ashley Detail is one of the best in the business when it comes to research and development.
In addition to delivering what that content looks like on the other side,
some of the companies that she's worked with, one of the most impressive in my opinion is Nomad Capitalist.
She helped run all 2000 plus articles that they wrote or were in the process of re-editing to shift his thoughts about those subjects
that certainly changed over an eight-year period.
You know, if you reflect back on what you were thinking eight years ago, you might also realize like, wow, my perception has changed a lot.
Well, she's managing content for an entity that is writing about global currency, blockchain, Bitcoin, that stuff, not as important.
And cool to me as the elements such as citizenship as related to finance and investing.
And I mean, she really dug in deep there.
And she happens to write children's books, too, to have somebody with that type of science capacity and that type of nurture capacity is almost unheard of.
She's a unicorn. I highly recommend checking out the table publishing.
She's been one of my absolute favorite people in life to work with.
Then there's the Water Project.
So before we move into the actual show, this is about giving back to the world,
especially a side of the world that's probably going to have a less probably not going to have as many toys under the trees as some of our kids do.
In fact, most of these children are looking for clean water for their families, and that tears my heart up.
So if we can do more to raise awareness for this, what I love about the Water Project is they show you if you're looking at the screen right now,
you're seeing actual projects that need funded.
You can then contribute to that and they will send you an email.
It was several email updates about what they're teaching that community,
how they're helping them build the wells that they're building to get access to access to clean drinking water for these communities and showing them how to sustain that process.
This is going to have a generational impact on the livelihood of people in areas of the world where they desperately need it.
So if you have it within your heart to give and your wallet capacity, please do.
If you do not have the ability to give financially and spread the word, share the story, make it meaningful for people.
And as you do that, you might be surprised at who you influence and how much you actually drive for for others to be able to do good and participate as well.
If you have a cause that you'd like us to highlight something's on your heart, like Jackson,
I wish that you were talking about this particular cause. Do yourself a favor. Be bold. Be brave.
Throw that in the comments. Allow us to contribute.
Allow us to look and see what you're also affecting for good.
And we're we're happy to reciprocate where we can.
So with that said, let's bring Ava up.
So Ava, I was reading through her background after having met her twice and on our two different occasions,
the humility that she expresses, yet with the power and background that she has available as well of experience from Stanford
to working with different startups, to having traveled and lived in different places.
There's just the depths to this woman that should be tremendously appreciated.
So without further ado, Ava Tak, welcome to First Class Business and Women's Cross Life.
Thank you, Jackson. Thank you very much for the kind introduction.
Hey, absolutely. To help people quantify what I rambled on about a little bit in terms of what you do,
where we're going with this. How would you, from your own perspective, kind of walk somebody through your resume, your past?
What is it that you've done, Ava? And what are some of those those elements that are going to be important for visionaries listening in?
Well, that's how long do you have?
Well, you start with some and I'll prod you from there. Sure.
So I have a background in business and I started out with the background in organizational behavior.
And I didn't think much of it, but actually it helped me tremendously when I started out with my job in digital transformation.
One of the big projects I've done, including over 20 plus billions of dollars in digital transformation.
And I work with startups and work with enterprises.
And what excited me the most is to integrate the two together.
So I did some design thinking and product innovation in the Bay Area and work with startups there and work with international government.
And it's fantastic. It's been a fantastic ride.
And also, I work with a venture and really focus on digital transformation in the later years of my career.
And after that, I just really, really feel compelled to to really use my mission to help mid-sized companies and help women leaders to really thrive in what they do,
especially the world's changing so fast in digital landscape.
Absolutely well said. And so I saw that. Go ahead. Go ahead.
Yeah, thank you, Jackson.
I mean, one of the things that I'm doing right now is working to integrate technology like AI into existing or new IT platforms.
And that's come with culture and strategy and training in Nepal.
Very good. And so you were born in Vietnam.
You are a U.S. citizen. Yes.
You've lived in Australia. You've lived in Jamaica.
You had some some background of helping with Jamaica.
Did you actually live there or did you do development projects there?
Yeah, Jamaica was it was an international development project during my time at university.
And it was amazing. We created a new center for youth in inner city.
It was the first computer center that we built.
And it was an eye opening when I came there for one week in the spring.
We did a lot of like fundraising and organizing for the entire year.
And then when we came there, we met with the most beautiful people.
But then we also know how hard it is for people like for kids and even for women to really get into education.
And a lot of them is like in the class and they are in different ages.
So having a computer, the first computer center in the inner city was so helpful because then people can start to research and open their mind.
Yeah, absolutely. Now, I saw that when you were you were a teen and you began studies, you went to this.
It's called the Canadian Lester B. Pearson United World College School.
Lester B. Pearson is not a name I'm familiar with, but he was a Nobel Peace Prize winner.
And it's so interesting to me with your background that, you know, again, yet another country,
yet another entity up to, you know, like that has some type of standards, some type of vision for good.
You don't typically end up with a Nobel Peace Prize without having something to do with good things.
And so it's just like, whoa, your background is so diverse.
And that's that's again, what I'm most excited about for any visionary listening in is just kind of soaking in the principles that we explore while we talk.
So I'm going to dive into one specific question and we'll go from there.
And that's what's your vision for those that you serve, whether it's the medium sized businesses or or others, feel free to continue to redefine that.
But what's your vision for them?
What is my vision for those I serve?
I think I'm just looking for a more. More equitable world where we can have people from different,
just like my experience working with people from different countries,
I would love to to see that vision happening in a mid-sized SDS scaling up because culture is something that you can't really
you can't really scale up when when things are so complex.
So it has to be, you know, from the starting point, from the point where you hire people,
from the point where like an everyday working and living.
So my vision is to have. To have a world where leaders are more involved and the companies have all the roles in places
that really focus on diversity, equity, inclusion and even the neurodiversity from day one,
even day zero before people coming in in the recruiting process so that by the time people get hired,
they feel a sense of belonging and they feel right at home and they have a chance to continue to grow,
especially if you see that how how a lot of research talk about diversity is not just something that's nice to have,
but it's something that's really a good thing to do for leaders to do,
but also essentially it can bring you a lot of equity back into the company as well.
So it's really serving the entire lifecycle of business.
So having a way for companies to really think seriously about DEI and neurodiversity is so important
because essentially it can be treated like a transformation by itself.
Absolutely. You know, a lot of visionaries may shy away from this this topic because, you know, it's like one.
Well, we didn't start with all that stuff in the beginning.
So we can't start from day zero.
Others know that they're building something from scratch and it can be an overwhelming process
when you don't have all the resources to put everything in place up front,
but that doesn't nullify the importance of the foundation that doesn't,
you know, just because you don't have the ability to build a phenomenal foundation right now doesn't mean
that we shouldn't be learning about how to add and build that foundation or rebuild with that foundation in mind.
So one thing that you sparked in me was a reminder of LeBron James and I promise school, right?
So I've never done this before, but we're going to do this right now.
And we're going to look at that particular entity for just a minute.
This, you know, I promise school.
We are family. Well, when he launched this, he I believe that he did such a great job
to bring in the right types of people on the front end and have the right type of vision
to help create an immense success, amazing success for the inner city children in the Akron, Ohio area
and beyond by by really reshaping and redefining what education looks like
and what types of things they need to be thinking about in regards to these children out there.
Again, I'm not meaning to do a complete promotion for it.
But again, it's about it's about what Ava talked about in terms of planning ahead, right?
These kids are on a very different time schedule than other kids are for school.
The teachers are paid to be available in different capacities.
The kids are taught safety aspects of how to get to school in safe fashion.
They're all given bikes and helmets as well.
They have scholarship raising.
They're very aware of the scholarship process from a very young age versus, you know,
you look at public school or other entities. Point being,
he spent so much time and dedication to laying that foundation in a way where people,
you know, from all walks of life could feel comfortable with supporting that.
Not everybody does, but so many people do because it was so clear.
I would say it's a great example. Would you agree it's a great example?
Or would you be like, no, Jackson, I got a better example.
It's a fantastic example because even for me, when I was when I when I was really young,
like I didn't really have a huge vision.
I didn't know exactly what I'm going to be doing,
but I just knew that I'm going to be out of my country.
And I didn't speak a lot of English back then.
But I just have this faith that I really want to learn.
I really wanted to expand myself.
And the idea of the school I went to, Lester B. Pearson,
it was created in honor memory of Lester B. Pearson.
He's the Canadian Prime Minister.
And his idea was like, how can we build a sustainable world if people from all over the world,
from all walks of life, just like you say, don't meet and work and learn all together?
And it changed my entire project for my career.
So I wholeheartedly believe that the same thing with diversity, equity and inclusion.
A lot of time I work with people from all over the world after the school.
And it's really not about liking each other from the start,
but it's really about learning how we work with each other and learning our differences
so that we can really align and come to a common vision afterwards.
So it was actually harder at the beginning to work.
But once we get that bond, the bond has become unbreakable with the people all over the world.
And we create amazing things that we've never even imagined.
Love it. I love it. Let's talk about that vision.
So expanding upon that, what's your vision for you?
What's vision for me?
My vision is to continue to learn and grow as I share and contribute to the digital world.
And I wanted to bring in education as well as coaching for organizations
while I transform the organization digitally.
Nice. Very good.
I mean, the vision is one day we can all bring in the ecosystem between the startup and the enterprises
and having really that open innovation across the globe.
And we would have like a 3D platform.
I mean, there's a lot of 3D platform already happening,
but how can we make it seamlessly?
I feel crazy about this, but like one day, you know,
we could have even a virtual coaching stand where we just hop in
and it's just like going out of your backyard and seeing people from different parts of the world.
Like, oh, here's my friend from East Asia.
Here's my friend from Western Europe.
And we all come here to really just hop in and everyone's really create amazing project
and really integrate technology across the globe.
It's so funny too that you use that term hop in.
There's a program called hopin.com and hop in literally creates spaces like that
where you can divide rooms and have a more holistic virtual presence with different purposes based on it.
And you know, it's up to the creator to create the environment in a way that's seamless.
But it's, you know, it's really cool that you use that term and that program exists to do just that.
Mark Zuckerberg as well, and it was just on a podcast with the headsets
and him and the podcaster were both in the headset and you, you know, they couldn't see the headsets.
They were showing the headsets behind the scenes.
You know what it looked like from a tech standpoint still,
but they were like in each other's faces and a little bit too close, you know,
and he's like, I feel like you're breathing on me.
And they had a good laugh about the reality that it just felt so much more natural
and like they were actually present and the vision pros, the technology from Apple, Oculus with Facebook and beyond.
This integration is allowing us to get more personal with people on an online fashion.
I could hug you like right now.
I'm already at that point where like I can hug you and send the others in the back end as well.
And like feel like we're friends and that wouldn't be awkward to me.
But you did hit something that I appreciate rather than force that issue.
You said it doesn't necessarily mean we start with liking each other.
Do you mind looting? Do you mind diving deeper into that?
Yeah, of course.
So, you know, when I was doing, working in bigger IT consulting companies and I have junior,
not junior, but like really even experienced consultants that I would mentor and train.
And first I would create, you know, before going into engagement, we have clients and everyone is getting so excited.
And we tend to forget how do we work with each other?
How do we make sure that we work well so it portrays and then we have a better way to communicate
so that we can help our clients even better and partner better with them.
So the few things I realized that we need to do your personality assessments,
but then do it in ways that facilitate in ways that build trust and build transparency.
So at first we, you know, kind of we consultants, we're trained to be very good in communicating,
but also very polite and diplomatic at point.
But I said, you know, look, we're different individuals.
It's OK that we don't think the same way.
It's OK that we don't even like each other because we come from a very different background.
So with the assessment, personality assessment, what was really helpful is to get everyone in the same line
and then we can see different spectrum.
Like I may be more the big vision thinker, you know, I'm trained to be your consultants.
We have to look at the detail, but then some other people have the innate to be more detail oriented.
So together we facilitate and we say like there's no bad, there's no good.
But how can we use different strengths and then complement each other's and then really work
as a team and some other time if we wanted to improve or challenge ourselves to to go maybe think bigger,
then that's somewhere we can we know someone in the team that have that ability and we can go forward with that.
Another thing is good is also we don't really know where we are.
Like it's everything is relative, right?
Like, but knowing everyone in the spectrum is so nice because then we have this radical transparency.
And then know I know that in the next meeting, if I'm having like this huge vision and I look around the room
and everyone is like, OK, Ava, I think this is awesome.
And I need to digest a little more than I know is not personal and vice versa because we're built differently.
So so then from there we start to create this working agreement.
And it's become a leaving document for us as you know, we can even has certain best words so that when we go out there
and see clients like how do we show up when things get difficult?
How do we show us as a team?
And it's come from knowing our differences.
Yeah, absolutely.
So there's you mentioned a radical transparency as an outcome of this type of facilitation.
And you also mentioned the front and personality assessments.
Pros or cons of personality assessments.
Are you for them?
What personality assessments do you recommend or are they all trash?
Where do you stand on that?
Well, I don't usually do a lot of personal assessments.
That's a great question, Jackson.
So I don't really usually do a lot of those because I feel like as we grow, our personalities can change
and our purpose and our values can change with it.
But there are some good values in certain personalities assessment.
So the one I did was with Ray Dalio and Adam Grant.
So they really specifically created for organizational development and seeing that radical transparency.
So what I like about it is that we all relative, right?
Like so we know as a team, we know where we stand in the same line.
So that way we can have this conversation with each other.
Like we can build this island that have all of us in it and it's nowhere our strengths and our innate tendency that we tend to do.
And then I have a lot of team members came to me afterwards.
Ava, I so appreciate that facilitation because I understand myself better now.
Like yeah, there's definitely a lot of people who resonate with the way, you know, the way we discover it.
And we make it so so the personalities there we but it's I'm so excited.
But the most important thing is that we have to bring it back to team and people and not having that as as a way to punish,
but as a way to really share thinking and know that, you know, in every meetings, I understand my team now.
Like I get to know a different perspective. I know where they're coming from and make it become a more conversations and coaching.
A lot of companies get lost in the mechanics. Right.
And I believe that's what you're you know, I hear loud and clear.
That's what you're alluding to is the fact that there's different ways to to assess, especially when you're with the doctor.
Right. You know, like don't get me wrong, the doctor is probably going to check the pulse, you know, on the blood pressure and all that.
But in certain circumstances, you know, I imagine the movie I'm dating myself here, but the old movie Pearl Harbor, you know,
where everybody gets attacked and now it's like, you know, stop on the check.
Everybody's blood pressure at this point. You got people who've lost limbs.
You got people who are dying on the spot. Like it's time to put your doctor's hat on and just go in and assess assess assess the right way based on the occasion.
Right. I hear you making that same type of space for OK.
The assessments are nice and helpful to an extent. But if we lose the personalization of the experience, what are we really doing here?
Are we really serving people that well? So go ahead. You got something big. I can see.
Yeah, I know exactly. Thank you, Jackson.
So it's really about understanding our innate strengths, but also turning though in its strength even just even louder.
Right. Like if I if I wanted to collaborate with someone who's like very, very detail oriented,
I love to have the second eyes. And if I wanted to collaborate with someone who's like even more of the big picture,
like we always in the spectrum. But the most important thing is no no bad, no good.
It's just who we are and how do we work with each other and and really celebrate our strengths at the same time.
So it's it's really not a way to measure what we're lacking,
but it's the way to to actually measure our innate strengths and use that and amplify that to really work in a team together.
That's big. All right, we're going to dive into a dark subject.
What's the worst leadership experience you've ever had?
Share with me more. What would you mean? Like the worst leadership experience I have experienced or?
You know, I would say dive into that heart and mind and find whichever side you want.
This could be yours. This could be you being the leader.
It could be somebody else. It could be a movie that you saw.
I don't know that reflects that. But yeah, you know, it's it's it's a big question.
But I my experience from time to time with any transformations that I'm doing,
it's always come back to communication. Even in my line of work now,
I coach leaders and executives and it's come down to communication because we're human.
And often we were very different. Like this is why we're doing the assessment sometime.
Right. But our like our language, our even we call it our love language is very different.
One may be really geared towards, you know, service. Some for me, you know,
I I like giving people a hug. But of course, we can't always give people a hug until we know each other.
So when we don't really have that line of communication, we don't really understand each other.
It's hard to build trust and it's hard to align.
So some of the worst, some of the worst experience that I I mean, I've experienced in the past,
some of the some of the some of the manager I have, I have some amazing manager,
but some some have a very different style for me.
And it have to come from the the communication and where we're coming from.
And some of we don't learn how to be empathetic to others.
So that is a skills that we need to continue to learn and and give empathy is a way for leaders to.
To showcase that they they hear others.
It's a way for for us to feel heard. And when it's lack of empathy,
it's come to sometime a huge misunderstanding and that could lead to some of the worst experience.
So every time I go into a team, leaders or managers or directors, I often have this alignment with them.
I said, no matter where we're coming from, now we're a team. Let's just have this cadence in place.
We're working, we're rolling off sleeves and we're working together as a team.
No matter how our pay structure is, like we are all walking on the same ground.
We're human. So there we are. We're here on a purpose.
And we're wanting to make sure that purpose is aligned for the rest organization.
And we're working truly as a team.
Absolutely. That's that communication factor can't be can't be expressed enough ways.
There's a lot of ways that we need to look at that.
And for instance, I'm very great at speaking with Alphas.
Alphas and I communicate super, super well together.
One of my struggles is communicating with the beta.
Beta's have their place, right?
They're the supporters in the process at the at the top level.
A lot of times their job is to protect the Alpha, you know,
is to make sure that people fall in line and pay attention to what the Alpha is up to.
So again, Alpha to Alpha coming in and communicating,
the beta sometimes feels left out or boxed in or like they're being replaced, et cetera.
And I, as a young leader, had a very hard time making that space.
So I would have a beta who loved me within the first week or two.
Oh, man, by the time that second week's done,
they wanted to torch my life because I didn't do a great job of making space for their needs
and learning their communication styles of beta.
So the best leadership experience,
what would you say has been your best leadership experience ever?
Best leadership experience, I think is the opposite, right?
Like someone who is inspiring and who have this big vision like me,
but also have really good effective communication skillset.
And a lot of those times...
Do you have a story in mind?
A story for effective communication.
Yeah, I've been spelt here.
I mean, even just like last week, right?
Like I'm working with my team on, we're working on integrating AI into this existing IT.
And like I am a coach, but I'm also a consultant, management consultant.
So I'm an strategic advisor and sometime like you say this Alpha and Beta, right?
Like I jump back and forth sometime and when I get excited,
I often really provide like tend to provide solutions why actually I should hold back sometime.
Like so that's a lesson for me, right?
But my team was so compassionate, you know, there's a CEO of the company
and you know, very talented product team, product manager there too.
And the CEO was like, hey Ava, so I have this question for you.
So that's bring me right back to, oh, and I once he asked that question,
I realized that okay, now is the time for me to sit back a little bit
and be a coach rather than being a consultant.
So I came to, you know, I said to him, you're right.
Like, you know more about this target audience than I do.
So I'm going to hold off and I would love to hear your insight first.
So a lot of time I do that in my coaching because I know that's I'm going to the coaching sessions
and that's what I'm doing.
But when I'm doing working as a team and rolling up my sleeves,
sometimes I going back and forth and I, you know, like,
so that's something that I could have to hold back.
But it was become the best thing because we build trust
and we're able to really share what we think to one another.
And it's just a question.
So then having that self-awareness really help to hone in that effective communication
and empower others with empathy and understanding.
What an awesome, awesome paradigm on a best leadership experience because it's subtle, right?
And most of the time, the most effective leadership, the most powerful,
it's just that you don't even see it because it's taking place.
A lot of mothers are great examples of that, you know, just the way they show up,
serve, love their children, help them when they're going through struggles or whatever.
It's often, they're often the unsung hero.
And most of the time, your best leaders in life are just not the unsung heroes
because they're doing things that are helping us go the right course,
yet they're not getting in the way and boasting about it.
Exactly. And by that, like, you know, we, so we did our pitch, right?
And out of 15 awesome, amazing projects from really talented people and companies,
we got number one, we got ranked number one, like, judge number one with flagship engineering.
And, you know, we're going to talk with their, yeah, so we're going to have coaching there as well.
So every coach needs a coach, right?
So I'm really into learning and I'm really excited that, that because of effective communication,
we work as a team, it's not always about agreeing with each other,
but it's about through asking powerful questions.
It's about learning how to have that self-awareness that we become a stronger team.
Yeah, absolutely.
All right. So diving into one of the more difficult questions, I would say,
because we just got to think through it, right?
And that's if this was your last opportunity to share a powerful lesson with other visionaries,
so they can learn from your experience, what would, what would the lesson be?
I think for me, it would just be continuous learning and be humble.
There's things are changing so fast in our world.
Things that can really help us to be successful in the past might not be something that applicable in the future.
It's like there's some leaders who come to me and said, Eva, like, I've got to where I am now
because I'm always the one who's providing the solution.
And this problem becomes so complex.
And I just told them, you know, what about asking questions, asking more questions,
bringing that design thinking, asking questions that's really helped enable your team
so that you can, they can be the visionaries with you, partnering up with you as well.
Yeah, helping empower people to be visionaries for what it is they're up to.
I think one of the fears that people, that leaders have in that regard is, well, won't they leave?
Like, what, won't they abandon our vision?
What's your response to that?
I mean, we can't really tell the future, right?
The thing is, like, we can never predict the future.
But there's one thing I know from my experience that if I can really get myself out of my current job,
I'm always get to the next level.
I challenge myself and it's always come to a better end.
Like, a lot of hard experience come.
And at first, we might think it is something that happened to us.
But if we can change to it happened for us, there's always a way that we can elevate ourselves,
continuous learning and sharing.
That's the best way that it's, we can grow our career.
Yeah, absolutely.
The, you know, there's the thought process, too.
What if I don't help my team gravitate towards a vision that matters, right, to them personally?
And they stay, right?
Now I've got a team where I've got a team that doesn't really care.
And that results are going to be affected by that process, too.
So I love that you said we can't predict the future.
We don't know. Maybe they will go build something on their own or maybe they'll buy in at a whole new level.
And production will go through the roof because they care further than they did when they didn't have vision.
Yeah. And I love what you said, too, Jackson, because you're right.
Like this is where, when I go into the, you know, an engagement, I often do coaching and understanding what matters for people is important
because we would set objective and key results.
But we also want to make sure how do we connect that individual objective and key results to the bigger vision so that way people get excited.
And it's, you know, sometime there's just really no match.
People might just want to do something else.
And to your point, that may be the best thing to alleviate people to do what they do best.
And then we create win-win for everyone.
Interesting. So OKRs, objectives and key results.
This might be new to some people. It was to me a few years ago.
Let's talk about that. What does that mean?
Oh, it's a very technical term.
Right. There's a lot of language around it.
But in terms of driving success, do you feel that I feel you brought it up?
So I'm assuming that's a big part of driving core success is establishing those OKRs.
Is that correct? Do you call that formula?
Yeah, you're just like you're a really great interviewer.
So like you're keeping me on my toes.
So we use it all the time.
So thank you for catching that.
You know, with every business, right, like we have a vision and we have a goal.
So when I go in and I often think about, OK, what is the existing goals and objective for the organizations?
And the key result is just basically how do we measure if this is the right, like if this is the objective,
we have to understand, is it the right objective?
Is it being aligned with the organization?
And if not, like we need to create a way to align it.
And that's what I do.
And then bringing in key measures that really support that objective.
So a lot of time we companies would create really big vision, really big objective that is very also disconnected with the team.
So that way, you know, sometimes I bring the team in and also have that conversation and really have really that alignment and 360 view.
And once we have that, we have to have a mechanism in place so that it's just not really being put in a shell,
but it's really being executed on, you know, on a daily basis.
Everyone needs to know about this.
So we have to bring in that communication, once again, like that effective communication that everyone know.
And then being the metrics, measure it so that it makes sense.
So, you know, you may have, like, for example, like the other day, actually, I was taking giving a talk on metrics.
So in order to get the right metric, if you if a job, if the objective is measure health,
then we need to understand a bit further.
Is that mental health? Is that physical health?
Then we can drive that objectives to and the key results to really match.
And then bringing in that even scorecard and 360 degree to really bring in the right measure for it.
Absolutely. Now, let's tie that reality to the subject of DEI.
Right. So diversity, equity, inclusion, equality, inclusion, a couple of different ways people frame that.
From what I understand, one of your one of your purposes is to help business owners,
visionaries understand that the process success comes through.
DEI, right. DEI is not this roadblock and barrier to entry that say, like, oh, man, we have to deal with this, you know, in order to avoid failure.
It's it's it's actually the way through.
And two, a more successful outcome is paying attention to it.
I don't want to put too many words in your mouth, but you might talk to us about that.
Why why do you focus in on DEI and what's why should visionaries be focused on it?
Yeah, like there's so many things that I can think about.
Right. But DEI, diversity, equity, inclusion and even neurodiversity, because every transformation,
every success of the company, we have to account for the technology,
savanness, the, you know, the advance of the innovation.
But we also have to account for the process.
But most importantly, the people, you know, the the workforce, the people,
those who actually work to enable that innovation, that new platforms, that new processes.
So if we're not really bringing in that diversity, equity, inclusion, even from
how we treat our folks and how do we give that space so that people can voice
and how can we create that innovation in the first place?
Because if you think about a lot of projects that failed in the past,
it's due to a fear of voicing, you know,
or the inability to really have ownership from the leaders,
but also that dialogue between the people.
So when I, when I go in and create innovation, it's really about the people.
And that's why the training and the coaching, I can give you an example.
Like when I was coaching a product manager in a big enterprise
and they come to me and say, hey, Ava, how am I doing?
And the conversations I want to switch to is like,
okay, so how do you think you're doing?
And then really using the voice and the tone to create that space.
And then the person will start to talk about, well, you know, I've noticed this is,
A is doing really well, B is not great.
And then we have further opportunities to really dig deep into
how do we brainstorm into some solution for that.
But the second thing is that they come from, they're, you know, on the ground,
they're working and they realize that there are certain initiative
that they realize is not very fruitful.
And then the conversation become, okay, so let's talk about how do we
really bring that back into leadership so that they understand.
And then they did.
And they save a lot of money by banning certain project that is not very fruitful
and focusing the ones that is more fruitful based on the data.
Yeah, absolutely.
So hearing people, you know, we innovate one conversation at a time,
one meeting at a time, one person at a time.
Very good.
And so one of the elements that came to my mind as you're talking through that
is that entrepreneurs are known for being very good at delegating.
I'd flip that script though.
I would say most entrepreneurs are awful at delegating.
They love to delegate.
They love to, you know, allow people to do things they don't want to do.
But there's a difference in, you know, just telling people what to do
and fitting the right people to the right processes
or the right type of education for the right reasons
while respecting their own individuality.
Right. That's a much harder recipe to figure out.
So do you have like a DEI framework that you follow or how does that work?
There's some framework out there, but for me, every organization is unique.
Every organization has their own DNA.
And I tend to, this is why I come in and I like to customize my,
the way I solve the problem because we need to understand
is that the right problem to be solved?
Is that the problem big enough that we're tackling?
And with DEI, it's just like any other digital transformation.
It is a transformation.
So often we need to look at who are the people in the organizations,
who are the champions, who are the advocates, do we have any right now?
What is the landscape, what the political landscape?
All of that taken to place to create that customized training
and coaching to both leaders.
So I would say often it works best when it comes from really a better understanding
of that specific organization and without a specific framework.
Yeah, no, I love that.
That's very much mirrors how I do things and my organization.
And it's not common.
It's not appreciated in most of the market.
People have a scarcity mindset and the scarcity mindset comes in and says,
Ava, let's just focus on the framework.
Come on, like how much does this cost?
How do we make this happen on repeat, etc.?
But that needs to be customized, right?
In order to get true results, in order to really drive depth,
there has to be an appreciation and understanding for what exists.
You can't shortcut that.
You have to have the access, the transparency in order to see the strengths,
weaknesses, opportunities and threats in the workforce.
I love that answer and that approach.
It's like, oh, I might be writing down like, oh man,
I thought she was going to give me the framework.
You know, it's like I can magically solve all my life problems.
I burst the bubble.
Yeah, but it's an important bubble to burst.
So your bubble is fake.
You know, like let's burst the bubble, get that out of the way.
Yeah, I mean, if there's one thing that I would share is how do we build trust?
Trust is that framework.
Like whatever we do, if we can really build trust with the people in the organization,
then we can get advocates, we can get champions and we get leaders involved.
That's where DEI or transformation happen because with any initiatives,
we don't have supporters, we don't have leaders, we don't have owners.
Everyone has the role in it.
This is why like a transformation takes everyone involved
and we have to really help everyone to walk across that mountain together.
So building trust is the first because, you know, like in companies, right,
like we face with so many changes with technologies, with structure
and a lot of time system change along with that.
And the more change happened, the more trauma that it created.
And if it didn't really do well in the first time, the second time,
it has a way to really dampen the trust.
And without trust, it's really hard to move forward.
Absolutely.
If there's an overwhelming sense of mistrust around the company,
the entity, the environment, the culture, then it absolutely still starts at the top.
And that's where, you know, it typically is best to be addressed.
Big fan. I'm a big fan of this poster behind me of, whoops, my finger can't get there.
There it is.
I still don't see it.
No, it's a little bitty hint to Patrick Lincione's Five Dysfunctions of a Team.
And that talks about the base and foundation of vulnerability and trust.
And that's not established.
You cannot build a championship level culture and a high performance culture.
It has to start with vulnerability and trust.
We often need somebody to help us facilitate that.
So this was a fantastic conversation.
We're super grateful to have had you on the show.
Vision Pros, those we're listening in.
If you have a vision to share, by all means, apply.
See if you qualify.
If you're a good person, your vision is wholesome and uplifting and helping people.
You don't need to be Tony Robbins or Ava Tack to come on my stage.
You can come in with your preliminary vision and we can discuss it and see how it inspires people.
You might become bigger than Tony Robbins someday.
And if that's, if you get a start on my stage, then I'll be that much happier.
Like, yeah, we found him first.
We found her first.
So, you know, it'll be an exciting accolade for us.
We hope every single one of you enjoy the holidays as well.
If you have any questions for Ava, feel free to drop those in a comment.
And all of her links will be available on the show notes as well.
Of course, Ava, this is my honor and pleasure to have you.
Thank you so much for being on Vision Pros today.
My pleasure.
Thank you so much, Jackson.
It's wonderful to have this conversation with you.
Absolutely.
I look forward to more in the future and everybody have a great rest of your evening.
Bye bye.
Bye.
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And thank you for giving us your time and attention.
Have a nice day.