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scenes. Team members are working here. I love that. That's awesome. So what's new for you guys? We

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talked several months ago. I was super excited to have you on. I'm even more excited now. You're now

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episode 103. So that'll be fun. What's new? Yeah, a couple of things, Jackson. We just executed the

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first part of a training with a ski and snowboard group. So we're working with a resort up in the

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northeast. So it was a lot of fun. You know, it's a different audience than what we're used to because

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we've spent a lot of time working with military le and fire rescue, but mostly military. We do

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have a big military training camp coming up with the Air Force with their training wing. So I'm

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super excited about that. Welcome in to Vision Pros Live with Jackson Calame. I'm your show host.

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We'll be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs and guest leaders who are building

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fantastic visions out there. Hey there. Welcome in to Vision Pros Live. I'm your host, Jackson

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Calame, founder and CEO of First Class Business. And I'm really excited to have Steven Robinson

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on. Now we do this intro the same way almost every time, but this time I accidentally clicked

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the button to interrupt Steven. I didn't mean to do that. And I just want to highlight that because

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everybody in life makes mistakes. You know, and it's so important to be forgiving of yourself and

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centered when things like that happen. I know a lot of entrepreneurs and high performers who

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cave under the types of pressure like that. They don't know what to do next. And we're actually

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going to be talking to Steven about high performance for leaders, athletes and resilience. And some of

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the times when that is hardest is when the pressure is on the most, when you're in the limelight,

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when it's time to show up and do things right. How do you recover and how do you move forward?

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So while I've got some abilities to do that, he's king of helping people unlock that within

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themselves. So I'm excited to dive into that. But before we bring Steven on stage and we talk

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about his bio as well, I also want to highlight the sponsors that we have here. It is thanks to

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ColdClick, for instance, that we connected with Steven Robinson. We have a LinkedIn automation

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set up through a couple of programs. We use Ulink. We use Octopus. You're welcome to look these

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brands up and use them yourself, of course. And then Art Hoffman of ColdClick helps us make sure

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that we're abiding by the algorithms of LinkedIn itself. He's also somebody I mastermind with.

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He's very good at sales and he's very good at messages of attraction. And I'm very good at

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messages of nurturing. It's very important for me to take my hat off sometimes or look at other

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perspectives and say, you know what, what are other people doing and how can this work to our

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benefit? And so we have a great harmony and dynamic for how we go about that. What it does is it

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connects me to hundreds of people so that the right people who are in the right position to create new

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relationships can move forward more naturally. And then I'm not, I'm not stuck trying to force

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somebody into a program. And I see too many business owners stuck doing that because they're

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not distributing themselves wide enough. I hope that's helpful for you. In addition, if you're

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newer to the game of entrepreneurship, you're getting yourself established. I highly recommend

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Simply Fast websites as one of the entities that you either interview or look to as a potential to

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start your website. And here's why I spend a ton of money and a ton of time on my websites. When I

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got started, I have not used Simply Fast because I don't need it anymore. I've got a team to build

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web developers, web designers. I know what I'm doing too in there as well. So we're able to

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collaborate and build things that it does cost a lot more money. But if I was just starting out,

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knowing that I had an entity that can design websites at 179 bucks, I would have probably

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been his most pointed direct difficult client ever to say, Hey, Shane, I need a website. I'll

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spend 107 bucks. Do your best. Here's my concept. Let's get going. I'm not spending a dime more

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on that. If I could have done that when I'd gotten started, it would have saved me thousands of

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dollars and allowed me to focus on greater initiatives. So as we come across different

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solutions that we see for leaders and business owners who are trying to move their brands forward,

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we always like to share that. Sponsorships is one of the ways that we do that. It's not necessarily

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a paid sponsorship like is the case with those two. So again, use that in your evaluation as you

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move your brands forward. As far as causes, we also always want to raise awareness for the things

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that matter. And the Water Project is my go-to source for everybody who's new listening. I repeat

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this story every single time because of how important it is to me. If you've heard it a

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hundred times, I hope you make your donation today to the cause or you click and you share

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the Water Project so other people can. We're talking about millions of people who don't have

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access to clean drinking water. Something that we have access to in abundance every single day.

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If you're listening to this podcast, you likely don't have to wonder where you're going to get

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your next source of water. These individuals do. We're talking about kids leaving school to go get

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water for their community that may not even be safe drinking water. Imagine your kids happen

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to go through that. Now what's cool is you get to see the community that you're affecting and how

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many people are going to be affected by it and your contribution as it goes directly to that

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community. You get to see the story of what's going on and then you get to see the outcome

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and the experience of what it's like for them to have their well or their sand dam. And you

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get to learn about the process probably more than most people want to know. But I love learning

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about the experiences that we contribute to. So if that inspires you to contribute, I will rest

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happily tonight. If you have another cause that you want to see supported because there's a lot

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of stuff going on in the world, by all means, please drop the link in the comments. We've got

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8 billion people to help in this world. And I find that we do that. We work together on the process

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and we become aware of the opportunities to serve. So with that said, Stephen Robinson also

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has an extensive background in the service of one method or another. And in, in, in what's where I'm

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looking for while he did not serve in the military, his background of serving people in the military

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had me ask him, you know, wait, did you serve in the military? Not. And he didn't, but he served

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leaders and did debriefs with military leaders to ultimately help them overcome the stress that they

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deal with and understand how to perform under high stress situations. And as you know, war is

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probably the greatest stress there is in life. Maybe that and having a child. I don't know. I

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haven't, I haven't pulled the world on that before, but those two dynamics are certainly dynamics

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where I can only imagine the type of anxiety that somebody might face. So we're going to, we're

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going to bring Stephen on stage here in just a minute. I want to, I wanted to showcase his

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bio. We're going to bring that up while we talk though. Stephen, thank you so much for being on

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Vision Pros Live. It's awesome to have you. Thank you, Jackson. Appreciate you having me. Glad to be

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here. Absolutely. I don't know if you know this, but I used to be on the team for short stint with

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Flow Research Collective. Also a high performance group that, that has a very impressive backlog

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of the types of clients they've worked with, working with the defense department. The reason

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why I mentioned that is not to steal your thunder, but it's to say, when I saw even Pulse and what

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you were doing, I was like, whoa, here's another Stephen Kotler. Like here's somebody who's performing

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at the greatest levels, who's got actual research to back what he's doing. And I bought, I bought it.

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I was like, man, I got to talk to Stephen Robinson and find out more about your solutions and what

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you're up to. So I'm, I'm amazed at what you've built and I'm excited to dive in further. But

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if you were to quantify for us, who should be listening right now and why should they be listening

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to you? You know, anyone, Jackson, who's interested in a higher level of performance, and I think

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most of us to some extent are driven to get a lot out of life and our engagement with it.

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And I think what many of us don't recognize is the decrements or the things that hold us back from

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that. And that can be stressors. Those can be our little red wagon, as I call it, that we're pulling

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behind us and anything that holds us back from living not only fully in the present moment,

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but moving forward toward our dreams and visions. I think our team and I are good at that,

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very good at that in terms of helping people see where they want to go, but also understanding

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what tends to hold them back into their own past. Absolutely. And that, that leadership dynamic

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then applies to everybody from entrepreneurs to principals of schools, as well as military,

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as you mentioned, athletes, and our, our, some of those people who are trying to hit their,

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their dynamic best, you know, at particular moments, but they're also striving to give

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their best performance in almost every minute of their day. So as we, as we look at what you're

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striving to accomplish for those that you serve, what's your vision for them? What do you want to

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see them achieve? We call our primary training, Jackson, optimal performance under stress.

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And that's really the vision of what we want to help people do is to become more resilient,

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more able to move through adversity and reach their highest potential of who they can be.

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Good. Okay. Let's expand on that further. So what does that look like for some of these people?

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Well, we work in every area of really the human experience ranging from mind, body, emotion,

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and spirit, to the sense of who we are at the deepest level inside of ourselves.

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We do that through a methodology we call base R and it's a, an acronym, which of course fits

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the military audience really well, since we work with them a lot, but it helps bring them into

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alignment with these things that many of us might consider more conceptual or esoteric. What is

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exactly does it mean to connect with your mind, body, emotion, spirit, that we frame it in a

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circular model in which each one of us is in the center of not only who we are, but how we engage

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with life. So we work to create a nexus between our internal experience and how we relate to the

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external around us. Awesome. Okay. So diving out of the business world a little bit,

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you've got a long life ahead of you could be 50 years, a hundred years, five years,

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maybe beyond that. What's your vision for you? What do you want to accomplish? What do you want

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to see for yourself in the future? Well, I've got a couple of books in process, one in particular,

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that's connected to the military special operations world. I have another one on sports mastery that

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I've been working on and at least laying out conceptually how those will come together. So

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that's maybe a KSI retirement project, but I also anticipate spending a lot more time hiking and

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doing a lot of the things that many people, if you're in the entrepreneur world, which I know you are,

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often our lives get so consumed by the work and this kind of never ending slog of, I gotta keep

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moving in what I do day in and day out. So how do I live in a new way in which I've got free time

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on my hands or the ability to do what I want to do. So that's one of my key visions I'd say,

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whether it's for the next five or 10 or 20 years or however long I'm here is to really enjoy the

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freedom and ambit of being able to move out into the world and do some things that I've had to put

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on the shelf for the last 20 or 22 years. Hey, very well said. I mean, we do have a generational

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gap a little bit, which I'm grateful for because you got wisdom that I can't, but I don't have

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access to. On the flip side, because of the generational gap, I was lucky at a young age,

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I grabbed the book, The Four Hour Workweek. Have you heard of it? Oh yeah, for sure. I mean,

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so many young entrepreneurs have had the opportunity to read that and to find that new

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rich. So when my kids were little, we did a 41 day road trip up the California coastline with them,

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went to Disneyland, hit a bunch of beaches and all that. And that balance process,

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I'm grateful that we've had kind of more of an opportunity to open our eyes to the reality that

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can exist. But at the same time, I'm super glad to hear you say that you're going to be doing more

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of that. I also see you as kind of a balanced guy, man. When we were talking, you're in a log cabin.

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I mean, it was a beautiful background. So it seems like you've lived your life quite well.

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Yeah, it's gone pretty well so far. We live out on some acreage in a very, very quiet valley.

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Not quite at the moment outside. We're having the water feature worked onto the entrance to our

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business operation. But we spend a lot of time outside, tend to the gardens, we have chickens.

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I enjoy being out. I work on prepping the wood for the winter. So I'll even be doing that later

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this afternoon. I'll have the axe and splitter and chainsaw out and be working on some wood to

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prep for the cold weather ahead. Nice. Well, I want to ask you about that too. So you've got

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the appreciation for the hard work and the grind, the corporate culture that America built for a

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long time and still is certainly stable. And I guess it's stable, it's strong and performing.

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The question I have for you is how did you manage to escape that grind to a degree where you did

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have a balance? And you've prioritized some of these things. Most people don't know what a

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chicken looks like these days, let alone raise them. And then you got this water feature that

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you're building your house. There's some depth to your design and your purpose of branding,

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your identity. Where does that come from? A lot of what we teach, Jackson, is built around

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performance and recovery. And I discovered this years ago, I was a tennis professional for many

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years and played pro tennis for a while. And what I didn't realize at the time and wish I had known

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is while I was super focused on getting stronger, faster, better, everything around how to perform

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better on the court, I also did a lot with martial arts and was fascinated by, you know,

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how do you become an early MMA fighter even before there was such thing as MMA? Oh, yeah.

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And I was so into the performance side, I didn't realize how big the recovery side is.

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And so we met the neurologist who worked with us for about 18 years. I didn't really understand

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it at the level of the nervous system. How do you reset and recover? And over the years, I've

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started to realize, and especially when I met my wife, Elizabeth, and we started to work together,

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we said, hey, can we develop a model that reflects performance and recovery? And that's really what

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we've done. And so I do my best to live that as a lifestyle in terms of backward planning my sleep,

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looking for those intermittent rests during the day so I am actually functionally recovering,

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so I'm ready for the next thing. Working with nutrition, of course, hydration, you mentioned

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the Pure Water Project. I mean, I think that's such a great, great thing to tie into because

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most people don't realize how important water is. Or even if we're aware of it on a knowledge level,

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we don't have an understanding level that having congruence with the fluids that we drink and that

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we're drinking pure clean water and plenty of it is hugely important to human health.

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But when we're dehydrated, it actually is a stressor. And we have enough stress already.

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So I can be dehydrated all the time. I can tell how many people are dehydrated out there.

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Yeah, that soda and that energy drink may not be the best go-to. But I'm not here to judge,

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just here to educate. And that's really what it's all about too. So it's funny,

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one, I've never met somebody who can say I'm a pro tennis player and I'm also a professional UFC

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fighter. That's cool. Okay, you're not a professional UFC fighter perhaps, but those dynamics don't

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often mix together. That's fun. So two, you reminded me of a company that I am very much

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a passionate fan of called Love Every. And Love Every is a, they send you these boxes for your

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children at different ages. And I'm not going to go down that point, but one of the things that

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they've very focused on the science of becoming a better parent. You want to make a parent mad,

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tell them how to do their job. You know, people that tell them they're not doing a good enough

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job as a parent. But Love Every has this amazing capability of helping you see how much you have to

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learn in that role of parenthood in very subtle ways. And it makes you go like, oh my gosh,

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I wish I had thought of that. Things like, and I'm going to give one example. When you're potty

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training your child, putting the waterproof mat down first, right? And then of course the

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bed sheet over it, but then doing it again, putting the next one on. That way, if in the

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middle of the night, the child has an accident, you're not stressed getting out to exchange all

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of them. You just take the layer off and you let them sleep on the next layer below that. I was

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like, oh my goodness, four children. If I had thought about that four children ago, I would

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have been so much more prepared to handle the stresses of fatherhood. I mentioned that because

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your brand, while it's more adult level, you're helping people unlock these hidden secrets and

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gems of high performance that are probably somewhat, oh my gosh, why didn't I think of that?

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But they're life changing. Do you mind walking me through a couple of those?

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Yeah. Well, first and foremost, I mean, I think you hit a couple of things in potty training your

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child because really I think to unlock a higher level of performance and human potential,

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you almost need to view the brain from the standpoint of the limbic system, which is the

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mid or emotional brain and the brain stem, much like you're training a dog or you're working with

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a child because that little child up till seven years old is primarily more of a midbrain and

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brain stem than they are a fully functioning neocortex, the upper part of the brain. And that

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doesn't really come online powerfully until about age seven. And so seven to 12, it explodes and it

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starts to prune back a little bit, even though by the time they're 14, they think they know all that

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can be known and more than you'll ever know. But the reason I bring that in, we're actually working

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with some military working dog handlers coming up down in Texas through the Air Force. And one of

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the themes that we're going to hit hard with them is that in order to make positive changes,

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you need to understand that you have to train your brain as though you're training a canine

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because this midbrain and lower brain function very similarly to that. And part of the problem

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for us as human beings is that our subconscious, essentially our body in relationship to these

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lower brain centers often is referring us to the past. So it's like the dog who maybe somebody

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beat that dog and they had a beard and a hat. Well, from then on, their brain is so devoted

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to beard and a hat equals pain or threat, they're going to be ready to bark or run or whatever.

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And we're the same way. A lot of our patterning is built through our earlier life experiences that

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we're often stuck in. So how do we get out of those? And a lot of that is coming back into the

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present moment. Because you're talking about with the potty training is having consistency

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and showing up and saying, I'm putting the sheet down again, I'm setting myself up and that child

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up for success. And if you think of your brain in that way, this is part of our internal child,

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if you will, that we're coaching it and retraining it so it's not stuck back there. But it's now

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right here saying, I act with power moving forward and who I am now and what I'm claiming.

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That's awesome. And thanks for sticking with the analogy and the concept as well. I appreciate

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that. There's some personal benefits in there for me. Another thing that you talked about there was

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training your brain like you train a canine or like you train a dog. And what I think some people

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have a hard time hearing in that, or when you talk about training a child, I've met a lot of people

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throughout my career who say, don't treat me like a child. You know, or say you talk to me like I'm

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a child. And it's a it's a hard reality for me to deal with. I've learned to become more diplomatic

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with how I respond to that. But I'd love your I'd love to know if you're on the same page with me,

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or if you feel the opposite. Never hesitate to argue with me, Steven, please, of course. And

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in in relation to this, I've always thought, I'm not I'm not training this person like a child.

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This is how I would want to talk to you. If I was learning these same concepts. I mean, I'm

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I'm nurturing through this process. And some people have a very strong resistance to that.

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But you've you've kind of hit it head on. I'm like, hey, if I need to learn something,

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and it's easier to learn it, because you're telling me to sit and stand and sit and stand

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there or shake hands like that sounds like there's there's different training dynamics that are

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appropriate for different types of learning. Is that correct? Or am I off base? Oh, no, 100%.

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I think that many of us don't understand how we learn. And so one of the things we seek to do in

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training is help people decipher what's my learning style. You know, am I more auditory,

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more kinesthetic tactile, I know a lot of people have said, well, the whole VAK visual auditory

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kinesthetic thing is out the window. But at least I found as an athlete, and someone who's been in

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the human performance space a long time, for me, having some level of understanding of how I relate

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to and connect to learning different types of information, you know, if it's something that

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requires a very strong visual sense, and I'm studying something that requires visual focus,

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I do need to activate my visual centers, right. But at the same time, if it has a physical aspect,

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for me, I'm very kinesthetically oriented, so I get a body feeling for it. And I would often say

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to people, I'm getting a feel for it. And so I learned over the years of coaching, I would listen

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to people's cues and say, you know, they might say, I didn't understand that. Can you say it again?

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Or what I hear you saying is, or I'm starting to get a feel for this now, or I'm not feeling it yet.

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So things like that, or if they were visual, I don't see what you mean. So

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Or if they sound audio oriented, that sounds nice to me. Yeah, exactly. That rings a bell.

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And it's sometimes hard to pick those up, unless you're training and training yourself to listen

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to the cues that people give you. Yeah. And just to riff on that, you know, I think one of the

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places people will resist sometimes is when they were growing up, they heard or saw or whatever.

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And a lot of times, the example the adult may have given them was not in their learning style.

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So for them, they say, you're treating me like a child, but they were being spoken to or shown

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something and they couldn't relate to it in the style of teaching or conveyance that was coming

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their way. Correct. Right. And it's our responsibility then as leaders to be able to recognize that and

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adjust as well so that we can ultimately communicate and achieve the objective at hand, which is usually

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not, I hope it's not to cause harm. Our intent is usually to help build people up. So that's very

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helpful. Thank you for that. Now, we're going to dive in for some of the visionaries who are

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listening in. We love to dive into the worst business experiences that you've ever had.

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Everybody's had those types of moments that are difficult. You're welcome to branch outside of

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business. But also, if you have one related to even pulse and growth, feel free to double down.

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I'll let you choose. Okay. Yeah. I mean, first and foremost, I think the most difficult or

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challenging worst business experiences I've had had to do with selection of some personnel early on

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and basically having people come in who were on their face, perhaps a decent fit, but not really

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recognizing just because someone showed up and they had a certain set of skills that they were

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the right person for the position. And, you know, I think when you surround yourselves with great

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people, but you also have people who fit the culture of the organization, but you can also

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start to unpack, these are some of the things that might be problematic with this particular

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individual or group of individuals working in that capacity in the company. That can be a real

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problem set. And especially in this particular set of circumstances that I'm referencing,

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it had to do with the delivery of a large scale contract that also was problematic in itself,

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which tended to bring out the worst in everybody. You know, it is, it's a classic for a company in

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the resilience business. There are people who had lower resilience because of some of the roles they

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were in, faced with situations that were high adversity that required even more resilience.

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And then some rugs being pulled out from under us from the customer at the same time,

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it made for complete disaster in certain ways. And yet we still got through it and got great

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marks from our end users. Wow. So it was difficult. It was the worst and the best at the same time in

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many ways. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's funny, some of the people who come on and share their

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worst leads to them uncovering their best. Cause they realized they've got the spread years. It's

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funny. You actually had it, y'all made it through the end, much like a fourth quarter that goes into

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double over time. You know, and then it's like, man, this really sucks. But if you went on the

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other end, like, cool, you know, we, we, we finished the job. That's fun. Any, any other worst

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business experiences that you feel prompted to share, or you want to dive into the best experience

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that you've had thus far? Yeah. You know, first in bridging the gap between that particular

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experience, that was 14 years ago, we've had a lot of water under the bridge. You know, I would say

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that the single greatest challenge time that was also kind of a worst experience was having gone

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through that process that I'm talking about, this was in 2009, 2010, but coming out of that,

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not really having the resources to rebound very effectively at that point, that made for a

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tremendously challenging couple of years after that. The best part of that though, as it turns

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out, was that made us even more resilient. And then through the process, we're now kind of 22

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years to overnight success, the company's doing the best it's ever done. And, you know, I'd say,

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in the last couple of years, we've had some singular great trainings that stand out for me.

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And honestly, the one I'm most excited about is the one we have coming up, which is often the case

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for me, I'm always excited about what's next and bringing it and getting myself and the team really

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energized to go out and deliver that. And it's coming up just in a few weeks right after

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Thanksgiving. So that's what I'm anticipating is my next best experience. That's awesome.

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Always good when those are on the horizon already. And you're not in the middle of the hurricane

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wondering when it's going to end. But those hurricanes often do give us new strengths

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that we're unaware of. And so you reminded me of a story I haven't thought of in years

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that was so impactful on me. And it was about the trees on the north side of the mountain.

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Have you heard of that? I've not. Oh, man. The trees on the north side of the mountain

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in this story were the ones that faced all of the harsh conditions of the wind and all of the,

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you know, the storms and how they came in, the trees on the other side of the mountain were

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extremely weak and feeble because they didn't face adversity at all. So when the craftsmen would

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seek this type of wood to create tables and whatever furniture they wanted to, those are the

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trees that they went for because they had built a strength set due to the things they had to

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overcome and accomplish. Well, we're no different human beings. When we go through adversities,

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we gain strengths that allow us to then utilize that strength for our future challenges. So

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you went through that. My business has certainly gone through that. And it is humbling to

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take a breath and take a step back and say, OK, like, what have we learned in this process? Why

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have we learned it? How can we utilize this to move forward? So on that note, that's my powerful

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lesson. What powerful lesson would you share with visionaries? What can they learn from your

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experience? And let's pretend that this is the last lesson that you could give us. What would it be,

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Stephen? Well, I think it's bring it with everything you've got. When I went to Europe

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the first time in 1985, and then I went back in 88 to play tennis, I was way out of my league

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and over my head in terms of who I ended up competing against. And it was interesting. I had

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set the goal coming out of college. I said, I want to be able to compete against players in the top

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500 in the world. Now, notice I didn't set the goal to defeat players at that level or to

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win tournaments over players at 300 or 400 in the world or whatever. But I set a general goal to

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play and compete at that level. And that's exactly what I did. But the cool part, at least for me,

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was that I went over there and I gave it everything I had for a couple of summers, 85 and 88.

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And I became a much better player, actually not until about 89, 90, 91, 92 in that range. I became

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much better. And it was largely because I was tempered by going over and playing against the

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level of competition that was far beyond anything I'd ever played before. And while I got my butt

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handed to me all over Europe many times, in the process, and over the next several years, I became

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a much stronger player through it. And I would encourage anybody else who's a visionary out there

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not to be afraid of your vision. And I think we've held it well. I've held it well. I think we've

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held it well. I've held it well with Evenpulse in terms of starting this 22 years ago. And here we

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are 22 years later. And we're, as I said earlier, hitting the overnight success. So being willing

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and able to have the tenacity to hold on to your vision is a big deal. And a lot of people, I think,

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give up too easily. And in this day and age of, you know, Gen Y, Gen I pad saying, I want instant

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life and like Neo, I want to know Kung Fu like that or the episode of Chuck. It's like, well,

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it'd be great if we can just neural link that and you got it. But I can tell you, from at least my

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perspective, and somebody who's done some things fairly well, there's not any satisfaction in not

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working for it. If you just get handed the prize for doing nothing, it's like, okay, we've seen

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legions of people who've won, you know, won lotteries who lose the money very quickly, because

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they're not ready to work with that level of energy and affluence. And the people who've worked

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hard for it, they usually have much greater appreciation of the people around them who also

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put in energy and effort, but also the reception of what they've received when they've worked that

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hard. Well said. Powerful lesson. We got bringing it with everything that you got and stick with it.

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You know, those are excellent principles. And knowing that as people, you may not, if you're

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going through a lot of adversity right now, you're going to want to disagree with me, but we want

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to adversity as human beings. We crave it more than we realize. And because it does condition us,

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but let's just take soccer as an example. One sport, right? If you go out to the soccer field

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and you're going to play and you're playing all alone and there's nobody, no goalie in front of

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you, and you kick the ball into the net, the older you are, the more boring that sounds.

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Because there's nothing there to prevent you from scoring. Right? Yeah, you can make as many goals

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as you want. You can go tell your friends about it. And that's fun when you're two, or when you're

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four years old, but eventually you realize that, no, the greatest satisfaction has come when you

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actually overcome something and build something of significance. Your story about Europe, did you

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ever face a moment where towards the end of the game or the end of a match that you were losing,

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or maybe it was close, you're close to winning. I'm going to shift that gear. You're close to

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winning, but you're intimidated by your competition and you quit inside, internally. Did you ever face

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that? I'd say probably more than once. I just basically bagged out of matches. Those were

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generally earlier than playing in Europe, but I can't tell you, I played one match against a guy

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who was 125 in the world in a French prize money tournament. And I actually played great. It was

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the best I had played the entire summer. I lost 6-2, 6-2, winning four games. I mean, granted, 125

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in the world. I felt pretty good about winning four games, but he just blew me off the court.

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Like whenever he wanted to, I could have him pinned deep in the backhand corner, moving backwards on

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his back foot, three, four, five feet behind the baseline. Need to light one up at deuce down the

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line into the corner. And it's like, oh, well, I guess that's why he's 125 in the world and I'm not.

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Right. So in those moments where maybe that defeated you, what was the difference? What were

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you doing before that experience or during that experience that unlocked you and allowed you to

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do what you just said, where you said, bring it with everything you got? What are the disciplines

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that you teed yourself up with? Well, I think having an attitude of learning, constantly learning

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is so important, which of course means that's an open loop. If you're in a closed loop, you're over

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here where I'm in this box. I live over here because I do what I do, but I'm not taking in

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new information or learning or growing. And I think when I say bring it with everything you've

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got, you take what you've marshaled already in your life and you go forward with that learning

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attitude of continuing to expand your arsenal. My wife just did a workshop this last weekend

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on mastering public speaking and doing all sorts of things around how do you develop your internal

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process to grow yourself to a different level. And I was super happy for her to get a couple of days

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with like-minded people, like-minded women who are working in that same process.

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Yeah, absolutely. So there's a coach. There's actually a Netflix documentary on it.

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Tennis coach Patrick Moratoglu. I think I said his name right. We might have talked about this

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last time. I'm going to drop this in the comments for people. Maybe Patrick will see and reach out

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to you and be like, Hey, Steven, well done on the tennis court. But he talks about that. I don't

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remember what term he used, but the one we were just talking about where his players just start

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to give up and tank in the process. Well, there's a term for that in corporate and it's called quiet

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quitting. It's been taking off and it's one of those things that people are even starting to

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kind of celebrate within themselves and they're celebrating the destruction of their own virtue

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and ethics. And it saddens me. It makes me really like, Whoa, like they don't, you're not quitting

377
00:34:54,880 --> 00:35:01,600
on your company. You're quitting on yourself. And how damaging can that be for somebody?

378
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:08,480
As we shift gears into unlocking resilience and that high performance for leaders and athletes,

379
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,480
I'd love to just kind of correlate the two and hear your thoughts on both ends of the spectrum.

380
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:20,640
Let's help. I would say the masses tend to gear towards giving up on situations where the

381
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:25,440
resilience could save them, move them forward. But then let's shift gears, of course, into if

382
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,640
you're in that high performance territory and you want to take it up a notch, what do you do?

383
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,720
Feel free, Steven, take the mic from me and go whichever direction you want.

384
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:38,800
Yeah, I think first and foremost, it's saying, okay, what would it be like if, and if I brought

385
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:46,240
everything I had to this and I stay with it, what gains will I realize? What experiences can I have

386
00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:50,320
and what will I provide to this organization or to the people I'm serving that's going to make a

387
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:57,920
change for them? When I look at kind of the broad brush of resilience, I think a lot of people are

388
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:04,080
not necessarily willing to embrace the discomfort of what it takes to go for a higher level. It's

389
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,240
maybe a little bit easier for entrepreneurs or at least entrepreneurs who are successful because

390
00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:13,200
they do embrace that. And it is uncomfortable, as you know, if you're a visionary and you say,

391
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,600
okay, this is where I'm going in this field, but maybe somebody's blazed that trail before and you

392
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:22,320
can use them as a model or you can even talk to them and say, what would you do if? But maybe

393
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,720
somebody hasn't blazed the trail you've been on. Like for us, we brought together a human performance

394
00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:30,960
and stress resilience package, this neurophysiologically oriented, and nobody had

395
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:35,520
ever done anything quite like it. And we're still really unusual to the point I'd say unique in the

396
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:40,800
marketplace as a result. It's created a kind of a conundrum because one side of it is it's not as

397
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,440
easy to sell that because people like they look at it and they go, what is this? We've never seen it

398
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:50,240
before. So it's welcome to the blue ocean, Steven. Yeah, yeah, it's a big blue ocean out there. And

399
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:54,400
people say, well, you know, this, this is something I can't quite describe, but I like it.

400
00:36:54,400 --> 00:37:00,800
Yes. Yeah. Well, you'll, you'll overcome that. And that, you know, that's that it's going to require

401
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,720
a lot of resilience, but a lot of, for those visionaries who are out there, if you're diving

402
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:09,040
into the blue ocean, I mean, you're diving into a danger zone because you're the only one in it.

403
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,760
Yeah. You know, you have to get everybody over there. The red ocean is what, you know, a lot of

404
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:20,000
people teach to get out of, but the beauty of the beauty of a red ocean where everybody's already at

405
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:25,680
is you just have to stand out and, and be the best option and, or one of the best options. And if you

406
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:30,160
are, people will constantly gravitate towards you, but there's a, there's a tremendous value.

407
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:35,040
We're, we're also a blue ocean company. There's a tremendous value in, in paving the way for a

408
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:39,920
legacy where, you know, this path is going to be a dramatic difference in change for the lives of

409
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:46,160
those who follow it. And, you know, you're pioneering something important. So let's try to

410
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:51,040
break that down for people who don't understand it. What, what is it that makes Evenpulse so

411
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:56,400
important? And, you know, what, what does the process look like from saying, hi, Stephen, how

412
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:01,360
are you doing? And, and what do you do? How do we get started with you? What does that look like?

413
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:06,960
You know, first, let me just frame the larger rap of it. And we're teaching both stress

414
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:12,800
resilience skills. So how to, how to respond to life with perhaps less stress, or even when it is

415
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,200
very negatively stressful, how do you move through that deal with the adversity? And then on the

416
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:22,080
other side, how do you perform at your best? So we, we follow a theme of performance and recovery

417
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:28,080
as two sides of one coin, as I was talking about earlier with Elizabeth. The process we use, we,

418
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:33,680
we do an intake process, we develop a relationship with the customer. And generally, much like a lot

419
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:38,640
of people who would follow your show, we tend to find customers who are visionary oriented.

420
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:43,600
They see something that is not there, and they gravitate toward our blue ocean product as a

421
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:48,800
result, because they say, this isn't an existence within our organization or within our market

422
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:55,280
sphere. How do we get that? The next thing we do is we look for how can we serve that particular

423
00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:00,080
market and area of interest. So I'll just give you an example. In the military, we've done a lot of

424
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,800
work with security forces in the Air Force. And one of the things that they have to do, they carry

425
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:09,680
a gun for a living because they're essentially sort of military police, but also outside the

426
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:14,960
wire, they do the light infantry mission. So for all intents and purposes in the Air Force,

427
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:21,040
they're kind of like a light infantry operation combination with KSI cop. But they carry a gun

428
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:25,200
for a living, so they got to be able to shoot. So we've adapted our training, teaching them how

429
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:31,840
to shoot better using self-regulation skills, but then building off that saying, hey, and become

430
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,720
you've learned these skills, you can apply them over here in communication with the people on your

431
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:42,400
staff. You can apply them over here in writing more effective reports or dealing with a domestic

432
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:47,440
disturbance situation. You can use them over here with your family members. Maybe one of your

433
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:52,480
children or your spouse has an issue going on. And so we help them see that what they're learning

434
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,480
in that one discrete area has applications everywhere else in their life as well.

435
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:02,480
In terms of delivery, we usually go to the location or we'll do a virtual live presentation.

436
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:07,520
We do have our courses available online as well. We often will tie that together as a blended

437
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:13,040
learning package so that that organization customer can have us come in person, perhaps

438
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:17,920
work with certain segments of the target population online, do some follow on coaching,

439
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,920
and then giving them access and tracking their progress through the

440
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:26,720
online courseware as well, and even giving them a chance to take the course again at the end so

441
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:31,120
that they can get a certification online after, say, a year's time.

442
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:38,880
Absolutely. I saw the amount of investment you guys made in the private research study as well,

443
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:44,320
which intrigues me. I need to take the time to actually dive in and look at that myself. But

444
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:50,480
there's a lot of companies right now, especially in the US, that are doing a lot of research.

445
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:55,840
A lot of companies right now is just talking to a marketer. She works with a lot of very large

446
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,080
companies. She said a lot of companies have been cutting their R&D process completely out,

447
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:04,960
and they haven't been putting any budget towards that process. As I talked to her about the

448
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,960
budgets that they should be putting towards it, she said $10,000 per month. I'm sorry,

449
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:15,600
$10,000 per year was what she said towards their R&D. You might want to find that research.

450
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:21,520
What went into it? How much did you guys spend on it? What do you know about those details?

451
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:26,320
Or is that a better question for Elizabeth? You can ask me. I was intimately involved in

452
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:32,880
the whole thing. Fortunately for us, we did not have to lay out the funds to do the study.

453
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:38,400
The Department of Defense wanted to find out if our training would confer the benefits that

454
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:43,600
we thought it did, which would be increasing resilience and improving a sense of well-being,

455
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:48,720
reducing stress, knocking down anxiety and depression, improving communication, etc.

456
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:55,520
What they found was exactly that. It was almost a three-year, $3 million study. It was run out of

457
00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:02,240
part of the Pentagon. Three-year, $3 million study. I think it was actually about $3.3 million total

458
00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:12,240
that they spent on the research. How old were you at the time? Let's see. I was 48. Okay. I want to

459
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:16,640
quantify this real quick because there's lots of 18-year-old and 14-year-old entrepreneurs out there.

460
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:24,880
Steven, you didn't pay the $3 million, but that was about 30 years of preparation

461
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:29,760
to put yourself in a position where that company, that government agency said,

462
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:36,960
you're the guy, you're the gal, y'all are the people. We want to have run this. Your investment

463
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:42,880
in terms of longevity and everything you've built up to that point is something that I think more

464
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:48,000
people that are listening need to hear. Go ahead and continue, please, now that we've established

465
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:55,120
that base. Yeah. Well, thank you on that. When we set out to do the project, we knew it was going to

466
00:42:55,120 --> 00:43:01,040
be fraught with peril and challenges. What we didn't know is that this part of the military was

467
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:05,840
actually working on their own resilience and stress resilience human performance program at the same

468
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:11,520
time. We ran into that as a bit of a challenge point, but also just the pressure of delivering

469
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:17,600
it. I think we were already about $50,000, $60,000 out of pocket just in preparing for it. We bought

470
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:23,280
manuals and bought plane tickets for all the team members, had everything set up to go, and the

471
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:28,800
contract was going sideways. It hadn't even been signed yet, leading up to two days before the

472
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:37,520
contract was set to start. It actually got signed on a Saturday and started on a Monday. It was

473
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:44,160
enormously challenging. It was a conundrum or a sort of a paradox being in the resilience business

474
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:48,000
and having so much stress and having our resilience challenged on every level.

475
00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:55,440
By the time we got through it, the feedback from the soldiers was incredible. The researchers were

476
00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:00,480
quite surprised at how well they received it. But then as the data began to come in, and they also

477
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:05,920
did data with them downrange while they were overseas, they said, well, these people are

478
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:11,120
really using what you guys taught. In fact, about 40% of the soldiers said they used the training

479
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:16,720
every day in theater. We had one four-hour block of instruction with each company of soldiers.

480
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:21,440
We rotated them through this kind of fast-moving, hard-hitting process, and we had a bunch of

481
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:29,280
our service spec ops people on our team. It made for an interesting dynamic. But the real

482
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:34,160
gratitude I had at the end of each day was people coming up and saying, thank you, this really made

483
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:39,440
a difference. I really thought this was going to suck, but it turned out to be good. We heard that

484
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:43,200
coming a few times with people calling their wives and actually saying that on the phone.

485
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:48,880
Of course, absolutely. That's also sometimes very helpful when you think a movie is going to be

486
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,800
awful and you get there and you're like, hey, that was way good. Why? Because, well, you thought it

487
00:44:52,800 --> 00:45:00,320
was going to be awful. So that's helpful too. But I can imagine sitting in a class is not everybody's

488
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:06,240
favorite thing to do. Mind, body, emotion, and spirit. Last thing we'll cover. Out of those

489
00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:14,720
options, and when it comes to resilience, what are some of the surprises, if you don't mind,

490
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:21,680
in your program that key takeaways somebody might learn to help their life move forward?

491
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,000
Let's try to unpackage one of those right now. Are you okay with that?

492
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:32,240
Oh yeah. Yeah. First and foremost, seeing it as an integrated deal, your body, mind, access,

493
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:38,160
and your emotional spiritual connection, these four areas are operating all the time. We have

494
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:43,120
an emotional response to life, to our children, to the experiences we have. There is a sense of

495
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:49,040
spirit or that animation that lights up our relationship to things. We can feel spirited or

496
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:53,520
dispirited or what have you. A lot of different ways we can look at that. But one of the ways I

497
00:45:53,520 --> 00:46:00,240
look at spirit in relationship to the body is the Latin etymology spiritus, spiritus is breath.

498
00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:04,400
And so if we can become more attuned to the breath, we've got a direct connection between

499
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:09,600
our physical presence and what we think of as spirit. And the ancients even thought of it that

500
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:15,520
way, that when the spirit left the body, that was sort of our animation leaving us. Spiro,

501
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:22,800
spirari, spirui, spiritus from Latin. And if you understand that and really dial into expire and

502
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:27,920
inspire, those terms having to do with breathing, you get this grounding in your physical form.

503
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:33,520
I think the physical is so important. And one of the things that makes Evenpulse unusual or maybe

504
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:38,800
even unique is we highlight the somatic or physical aspects of how all these things can

505
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:45,040
come to take roost in the body. And that was easy for me as not only a tennis player but a fitness

506
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:51,440
trainer and martial arts guy. I realized for me, I do my best to live in this, in my body.

507
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:56,560
But if we start to understand how we breathe influences our body, what we think about and

508
00:46:56,560 --> 00:47:01,840
whether we have positive thought patterns, what we focus on influences how we inhabit the body,

509
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:09,360
including our posture. If we feel inspired, the chest opens up, the shoulders go back.

510
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:14,640
If our emotions are heavy, we feel heavy in the body. So if we keep coming back to that,

511
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:21,040
it helps us recognize too that the body is also a repository of most of your past memories.

512
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:26,000
So when we have stresses and traumas from our past, they can weigh us down to the point that

513
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:32,240
they show up in our body. There's tension in our back, maybe irritable gut syndromes,

514
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:38,160
all sorts of different manifestations. And if we address it there, we're not only addressing

515
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:43,760
the past, which helps us come into the present, but we can use the body itself as a portal for

516
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:51,360
a higher level of wisdom. Wow. I'm going to try to get this typed for everybody because oops,

517
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:56,160
and I almost made a little spelling mistake. There we go. Because that quote, our body is a repository

518
00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:06,960
of our past memories, that's a very, very good imagery for the archive that it is. And like any

519
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:13,600
physical archive, there's going to be, you can weigh it down. You can put it into a position where

520
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:18,880
that's, it's not necessarily organized in a fashion that helps. And I've definitely heard some studies

521
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:23,440
on that process, but you also blew my mind a little bit in relation to espritu, or spirit,

522
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:31,040
and breath, and how sometimes we can leverage our vernacular in ways that is not effective,

523
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:36,880
that just convolutes with semantics, right? Blah, blah, blah. But the purpose of language is to

524
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:44,480
better understand our relevance in the present moment, right? And where we actually are in the

525
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:52,640
universe. And when you unlock depths of like, that hit me so hard because I don't think I've

526
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:58,720
stopped to think about how spirit and breath go together. And now I can be more intentional.

527
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:06,240
When I take a breath, I remember my spirit and my spiritual connection. And that little bitty

528
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:11,040
superpower, I already know it can have a dynamic effect on my life. Then you talked about the

529
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:18,240
expire in terms of breathing and inspiration, or inspiring, like that makes a lot of sense to me

530
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:22,480
too. So it was just like a number of bright lights just went off in my head and heart.

531
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:27,600
And I appreciate you for that. Beautiful. And let me tell you one other thing, if I might.

532
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:34,720
Even your heart rate variability is tied into that. So if I inhale, look at me raising up,

533
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:38,960
my chest lifts, my shoulders go up. So I'm filling that whole repository. I'm filled with

534
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:43,840
life itself. This is what's keeping us alive in this physical form. And when I let it out,

535
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:50,320
that dropping feeling, but it's also a sigh of relief. Like when you've put your foot into a

536
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:56,240
hot tub on a cold day, or in a cool pool on a hot day. But when we do that, every time you inhale,

537
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:01,360
your heart rate speeds up. So that's your sympathetic nervous system engaging. And every

538
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:07,680
time you exhale, your heart rate slows down. So you fluctuate in these waves, your heart rate

539
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:12,720
fluctuate in these waves. And most of us think of our heart rate as a steady thing, make a well,

540
00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:17,680
I'm pretty fit and I'm at 62 beats per minute. But if you look at it on a heart rate variability

541
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:23,600
by a feedback mechanism, you'll see it flow up and you might go up to 75. And then down into the

542
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:29,520
50s or upper 40s. Somebody who's very fit and very healthy, we'll have wide smooth fluctuations of

543
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:34,080
their heart rate variability. And that's a measure of the autonomic nervous systems. So the more we

544
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:40,000
can help people understand that, and even start to become their own biofeedback device. That's one

545
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:46,400
of our goals in training. Huge. That's huge. And I was just watching a really bad movie last night,

546
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:55,520
actually. But not bad in terms of like horribly created, just kind of a violent movie. But the

547
00:50:55,520 --> 00:51:03,200
shooter in the movie is waiting for his heartbeat to get to below 60 beats per minute in order to

548
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:08,720
take a shot. And he knows that's when he needs to take in order for XYZ. He explains it in the movie.

549
00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:14,400
It's very, very crafty and ingenious how they document the process. But same thing with

550
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:20,480
somebody shooting a free throw. These elite athletes often take a breath in order to and take

551
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:26,320
some time and they have their rhythms that they follow. But if we can learn to pay attention to

552
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:30,400
that and get the training and guidance of how to do that for yourself in the moments where you need

553
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:37,600
it, your performance is bound to improve as you center yourself on your strengths. So awesome,

554
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,680
Stephen. That was great. I look forward to having Elizabeth on the show as well. So we're going to

555
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:48,480
have Stephen's co-founder and spouse too, correct? Correct. Yes. Yes. On the show. And she's going to

556
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:54,400
be talking to us about the recovery process more than the high performance process, which is equally

557
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:58,880
valuable and important. And I just want to say, I love the way that you honored her when we first

558
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:04,960
met. It's been a couple of months. So the exact memory is fuzzy, but the feeling is not. The

559
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:11,200
feeling of mutual respect and partnership was super high. And I was just like, wow, I cannot

560
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:15,120
wait to have this dynamic do on my show. So is there anything final thoughts you'd like to share

561
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:20,560
before we wrap up? Yeah, I can say Elizabeth inspires me every day. And I think the reason

562
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:25,280
we're a good partnership, a great partnership as a husband and wife team is we not only compliment

563
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:30,320
each other with the performance and recovery, but we constantly remind each other and hold each other

564
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:36,480
accountable around the things that we say are important. That's amazing. Stephen, send her my

565
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regards, please. And Vision Pros, we're so happy to have you on. If you have any questions, we'll

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always have in the show notes a way to connect to Stephen and find out about his programs more.

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Also, feel free to leave comments for any questions that you have. We'll make sure to forward those to

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Stephen so he can see them. And everybody who's out there that wants to share their vision,

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don't hesitate to apply as well. Those links are also on the bottom. Give yourself a shot. As Stephen

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said, bring it with everything you got. And we'll be excited to host you on Vision Pros Live.

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Y'all take care, everybody. Have a great weekend. Thank you, Jackson. Thank you for being here today.

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I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions

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as these episodes continue to move forward. This is going to get more and more fun. We'll have more

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and more engagement as well. We'll invite people to participate in the show. And thank you for giving