1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,520
That's a long or a big journey.

2
00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,960
But what do you think people are going to really need to hear today?

3
00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,520
I like maybe the transition

4
00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,360
between thinking that you're running everything at Shoestring,

5
00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:16,360
you have to be everything yourself.

6
00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:18,680
There's actually a team in place,

7
00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:20,160
there's some structures there,

8
00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,520
but you don't feel like you've lost

9
00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:27,320
the heartbeat of the business or where you started with.

10
00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,400
You don't have to give that up and you don't have to give

11
00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,960
up full ownership in order to get to that second stage.

12
00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,560
I like that. That transition,

13
00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,360
you talked about Shoestring and you said something else after,

14
00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,040
and I was writing and trying to catch it.

15
00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:42,800
Sort of like a Shoestring budget or

16
00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:45,320
like where you have to wear all the hats,

17
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:46,400
you have to do everything yourself,

18
00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,680
you have to be 24-7 on call for your business.

19
00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,960
That's not the only reality of the entrepreneur's own business.

20
00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,840
No. Absolutely.

21
00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:01,440
Recognizing that transition, being able to prepare for it and to hit it.

22
00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,640
That's good. That's really good.

23
00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,000
What else, man? Hit me hard on this.

24
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,920
We entrepreneurs need the crap beat out of us by CFOs oftentimes.

25
00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,280
Let's see those makers.

26
00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,640
The other part that's maybe a bit of a shift is,

27
00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:18,920
if you begin by focusing on cash,

28
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,080
at some points you need to shift towards,

29
00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,720
how do I focus on equity or building value into the business?

30
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:26,720
Some people get it backwards and if they're trying

31
00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:28,320
to build value into the business from the beginning,

32
00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:29,600
sometimes they have a hobby or not.

33
00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,760
All right. Welcome in to Vision Pros Live with Jackson Calame.

34
00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:34,760
I'm your show host.

35
00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,680
We'll be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs and

36
00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,800
guest leaders who are building fantastic visions out there.

37
00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:52,600
Hey, what's up and welcome in to Vision Pros Live.

38
00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:54,000
I'm your host, Jackson Calame,

39
00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:55,800
Founder and CEO of First Class Business.

40
00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,040
I'm excited to have Ryan Holden on.

41
00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,320
We're going to be talking about the $100 million journey.

42
00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,920
We're going to be talking about business growth at super levels.

43
00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,240
I highly recommend buckling up, jumping in.

44
00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,720
We're going to talk about acronyms that you may have never heard of.

45
00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:13,840
We're going to talk about mergers and acquisitions

46
00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,160
and private equity firm,

47
00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,080
venture capitalists and how to go about this journey,

48
00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,000
perhaps even without their help or their solutions.

49
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,880
We're going to dive in and it's going to be

50
00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:25,960
Ryan who really dictates which route we go with that

51
00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:27,560
because this is about his vision.

52
00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:29,880
But I know enough about that stuff to be

53
00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:34,160
extremely dangerous and also be on point at times.

54
00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,720
With that said, I want to talk about some of

55
00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:37,880
the things that we're doing to grow

56
00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:39,920
our business without venture capitalists.

57
00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:41,240
That would be ColdClick.

58
00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,520
ColdClick helps us with our LinkedIn automation.

59
00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,600
It gets us in front of excellent people like Ryan,

60
00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,480
and like all the other people that have been pre-intervening.

61
00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,000
Any show you go to,

62
00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:55,240
I would say 25-30 percent of the guests have come

63
00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,720
about because of our LinkedIn automation.

64
00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,840
That's allowing us to get in front of extremely high quality people

65
00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,120
with a message that we have to

66
00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,560
determine is appropriate for our audience.

67
00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,720
If you're trying to get in front of people,

68
00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:10,960
it's not enough to just get an automation system.

69
00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,840
You also want to make sure that your message is inviting

70
00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,960
and warm and gets people to want to take the next step with you.

71
00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,520
Too many people are doing that in ways where they're trying to get

72
00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,040
people to marry them from day one and they're like,

73
00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:23,280
''Hey, check out these case studies.

74
00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,880
We're amazing.'' It's just very off putting.

75
00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,520
If you're doing that, you're probably not winning very well in business.

76
00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:34,600
Now, on the flip side or the other side of that sponsor thingy,

77
00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,680
I'm losing my words today. It's late.

78
00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,040
Simply Fast websites.

79
00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,080
That's one of our other sponsors that we've got up there.

80
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,040
Now, this is not a solution that I use.

81
00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,960
This is a solution that I wish I had had access to when I was first

82
00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,160
launching my brands because Shane Michaels built

83
00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:56,440
this program to where he can help people build their websites at $179.

84
00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:01,680
I spent a ton of money and a ton of time trying to strategically build on my website.

85
00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,320
I knew a lot about websites.

86
00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,880
I knew I could use Squarespace for free.

87
00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:07,600
I knew I could use Wix for free, etc.

88
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,960
But Simply Fast websites is one of those things where when I was starting out,

89
00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:13,080
I wish I had known about it,

90
00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,920
I wish it had existed because to get another web designer to work with me,

91
00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:23,880
on that type of a budget and help me understand what I could do to build my website out,

92
00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:24,760
would have been very helpful.

93
00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:32,160
I would have saved probably between 7,000 and $15,000 on my front-end launch.

94
00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:36,080
It's just a resource that I want people to be aware of that are newer to the business realm.

95
00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:41,040
Now, again, we're going to be jumping in today and talking about $100 million businesses.

96
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:42,640
If that's not your cup of tea,

97
00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,640
maybe this show or this episode won't be for you.

98
00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:50,760
The water project though, before we go into Ryan and talk to Ryan Holden,

99
00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,040
I want to mention the water project because there's lots of people out there

100
00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:55,920
who don't even have access to clean drinking water.

101
00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,680
We have an opportunity to help them get just that.

102
00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,680
What's really cool is you get to see the community that you actually affect.

103
00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:03,960
You get to choose which community you want to support.

104
00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:09,080
You get to learn about how they end up creating the filtered water systems as well.

105
00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,200
At the same time, you get to see the outcome of the dollar that you put in.

106
00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,000
If you know of a charity that you'd rather support, then do us a favor,

107
00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:22,440
drop it in the comments because you just never know how many people will get access to the show,

108
00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,280
who will end up deciding to contribute to that.

109
00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:26,680
There's a lot of causes out there.

110
00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:28,800
There's a lot of people with a lot of needs.

111
00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,840
I always like to take a little bit of time on the show to make sure that we put life in perspective

112
00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:36,400
and say, well, there's 8 billion people on this earth that we really need to help.

113
00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:40,400
Most of them need serious help beyond what it is that we ourselves need.

114
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:45,480
What a great opportunity to step up and provide some help to those in need.

115
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,440
So without further ado, I'm going to bring Ryan on.

116
00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:54,960
I'm actually going to have him help me on his introduction for his bio because we did a pre-show to talk about it.

117
00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,120
But I don't want to miss the accolades.

118
00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:58,720
I don't want to misrepresent him either.

119
00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,640
And I want you as an audience to understand what his value is in the market.

120
00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,400
So, Ryan, I really appreciate having you on the show.

121
00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:09,600
And thanks for joining me on VisionPros Live.

122
00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:10,880
Thanks for having me, Jackson.

123
00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,280
Yeah, I'd love to start with an introduction.

124
00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:20,000
I sort of built the beginnings of my career, 10 years plus, with one founder-led,

125
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:26,160
somewhat family business style company, and that had different departments within it that felt to me a little bit more

126
00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:27,680
analogous to small business.

127
00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:33,280
The overall corporate parent would be in the 100 million, potentially billion dollar range of what it's doing.

128
00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:39,480
And so for there, I got to see sort of the back end of what some companies might call a roll up or a hold co.

129
00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,960
Just sort of seeing different businesses come together, seeing that size.

130
00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:50,360
And I got to contribute at that larger level, but also got to have more hands on work leading some of the smaller efforts.

131
00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:55,320
So I got to see a little bit of a first taste of big and small together in that approach.

132
00:06:55,320 --> 00:07:02,440
And more recently in my career, I've been able to shift more from that employee aspect, got my MBA, did my certified

133
00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:08,360
management account and sort of build out the strategy tools, accounting tools, and now focus on serving companies that

134
00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:16,840
begin even at the 3 million, 5 million dollar level that are starting to begin that shift towards heading in that 100

135
00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:21,440
million dollar direction and have come to a point where they're hitting a ceiling and they're maxing out, they're not quite

136
00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:22,240
sure what to do next.

137
00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:27,240
And that can help them layer that in and start to build out their structure that way.

138
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:31,760
Love that. And we're going to skip defining these acronyms.

139
00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:39,920
And if you're at the 3 million, 5 million dollar mark, then you know what those are or you need to immediately.

140
00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:47,960
So you understand the ground that you're playing on as you're moving forward, not being babysat through the process of

141
00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:53,280
understanding these terms from a you know, I want to nurture people and help everybody understand every term, but we only

142
00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:58,960
have 45 minutes. So we're going to be diving in a lot deeper into the 100 million dollar conversation.

143
00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:05,840
So who should be listening to this? You mentioned 3 million business owners that are making 3 to 5 million.

144
00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:12,680
And there's probably some other aspects of of prequalification for the audience as well.

145
00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,480
And why should they listen to you, Ryan?

146
00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:22,040
Yeah, well, the usual open door for my clientele happened to be the 3 million to 5 million dollar business owner that wants to

147
00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:28,240
keep on building. But my focus of this conversation is more a little bit more broad, like looking at what the value is

148
00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:32,440
for bringing that. And sometimes it comes back to where they live and what you want to do.

149
00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:39,320
Like not 100 percent of us will be living in a coastal urban city, just really enjoying that life and just loving that all of

150
00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:44,400
our products come from a billion dollar company somewhere. But compared to sort of having that last mile delivery,

151
00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:49,400
whether that's a plumber that's highly ethical and does exactly what he says and he shows up and he takes care of your

152
00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:56,640
house and you don't feel like you got shocked or surprised through the process or whatever else it may be, as you sort of see

153
00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:02,960
the different smaller towns or secondary tertiary markets in our communities doing their job well.

154
00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:09,320
So I think there's that side from a consumer perspective for anybody that doesn't want to live in the hustle and bustle of

155
00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:17,920
maybe urban cores across the U.S. And then alternatively from the other end of the picture, for those that value having

156
00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:23,160
those type of people in their communities. You may know the person that always shows up for when

157
00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:28,920
the county council is coming up for election or the key person in your church where you have a fundraising drive and all of a sudden

158
00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:34,440
there's quite a bit raised because one person has seated those funds. Those are the kind of people in our communities and often

159
00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:42,440
they're not somebody who's necessarily just an attorney or a banker or that sort of professional person, but they're often

160
00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:49,280
somebody that's been in the community for 10, 20 years and has that kind of value to share with the community because of what they've built.

161
00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:55,960
So for me, I find it valuable helping people get there and encouraging that path so that they can be there, they can stay there

162
00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:01,880
and they don't feel like they have to opt out of that once they don't want to work as hard, don't want to be pulling the

163
00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,640
serial entrepreneur or investment maker's hours in their business.

164
00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:15,680
Okay, very good. And the people that have got this, your bio on here too, so people can really, if you're not watching and you're

165
00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:23,120
listening in, you can turn on into YouTube and you can see the project experience and the industry experience that Ryan has as well.

166
00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:28,240
We'll have these links, by the way, and the show notes that you can dive in there too.

167
00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:36,040
Now let's take a look and see what's your vision for those that you serve. Let's dive deeper into that. What's the outcome or the

168
00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,040
journey that you want to see them experience?

169
00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:47,000
A lot of it just becomes helping put some structure and predictability into their business. I don't want them to live super risky or

170
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:52,240
feeling like they're all stressed in what they're doing, but they can feel like there's a way to be empowered in the business that

171
00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:59,960
they're serving. Often the entrepreneur or the person who's truly running one of those $1-2 million businesses is very relational,

172
00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:06,600
they're very sales motivated, and so they sort of accept some of this. But over time as they build that out, they realize that the team

173
00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:13,040
is depending on them, potentially their spouse and their kids are wanting to need more of their time, they want a little more

174
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:20,640
predictability into that. So my first vision is just to give them a little bit more visibility into what's going on and then help them

175
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:26,080
clean up maybe some of the gaps that are in their organization. So if we can fix some of those gaps, fix potentially some of those

176
00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:33,040
leaks and then the money flows to where it should flow, that allows them to reinvest in their team, that allows them to potentially take

177
00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:39,480
more home depending on their vision for it. Maybe they're already happy with what they're taking home, but they just want to put the

178
00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:45,800
business in a better footing and then realize, hey, the ceiling is broken open, we tried these things before, they haven't worked, but

179
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:52,240
with somebody experienced like myself on or whatever the team members they bring along, they then have the ability to start to build out

180
00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:59,160
where they're going. So for me, I would do this as a very part-time basis for any single client. And so it's accessible for them to work

181
00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:05,120
with me, other clients that are on the larger end of my spectrum, they've already sort of done most of the shift to from moving from

182
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:12,440
this owner operator founder type situation into more of a management team. And so that management team allows that diversity of

183
00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:18,040
strengths to come in from different functional areas. Some things that you see in a little bit larger businesses will be not just

184
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:25,400
finance, like my specialty, but you know, human resources are getting a little bit stronger. Operations, sales, marketing getting a

185
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:33,160
little bit more divided up and a little bit more of a coordination effort required to coordinate across all of that. So with my

186
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:40,560
my goal for them being to realize they can take that next step, they're not just maxed out by the ceiling of who they are or what

187
00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:46,760
they've come to know so far, they don't have to be the best person in every single thing in their business. And they don't they can

188
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:53,520
don't don't just have to rely on, you know, hiring a VA or having like a key sales partner surgeon or operating person, but then they

189
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,240
can have the right corporate structure that allows that business to keep on multiplying.

190
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:11,800
Okay, so these businesses that are at the 3 million to $5 million mark, what's the biggest leak from a cash flow standpoint that

191
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:21,840
you've seen? And how much how much was the leak? And you know, how fast were you able to turn around the cash flow problem on

192
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:22,120
that?

193
00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:32,200
So I would say maybe the biggest missed piece there is sort of understanding the difference between the revenue stream and the

194
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:38,640
cost structure and realizing how those are different. And so the cost structure is more what you're committed to to keep the

195
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:45,040
business going. So say if you're really close with all your staff, you don't do seasonal layoffs, even if your staff is doing

196
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:52,200
direct labor type things, there's more of a fixed cost or capacity that you're committed to being in business, you're committing to

197
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:58,400
having a certain amount of labor hours happening, you serve on the hook for those costs, regardless of how much revenue you're

198
00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:04,720
pulling through. So really understanding the appropriate amount of revenue to drive that. And then because of that, having that

199
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:12,120
insight to know where you can fine tune the costs, where you need to maybe use more variable costs, less fixed costs, etc, to

200
00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:18,520
balance that out. So I sort of see that coming out. I don't know if I have a particular dollar amount or whatever in mind, but

201
00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:25,880
just sort of seeing that difference, I often see that overlooked. And then for any given business, different strengths, others,

202
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:35,000
did my personality, for example, some some clients will find a certain aspect of their business model sort of running away from

203
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:42,280
them and realizing, or for then I can sort of come in and sort of help them realize, hey, you know, you only have so many dollars to

204
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:48,680
serve this customer, like say, if you're bringing in $100 from a customer, maybe you can spend $80 and trying to serve them across

205
00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:56,480
your cross structure and front end to sort of give yourself that $20, you know, EBITDA margin in more of a service context. And

206
00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:02,080
then with that, you have enough to, you know, pay your bankers, reinvest in the future, pay yourself, and so on and keeps it

207
00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:09,400
healthy. If you do less than that, you feel like you have to cut corners. So the only way that you know, 80% can happen, you can't

208
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:16,200
have like a 50% cost structure because that 30% being devoted to the product itself is not going to be strong enough quality to drive

209
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:27,520
that $100 coming in sustainably. So you try to find the right mixes. Potentially a long and there's almost a bit of a glorious

210
00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:34,120
history with this for the entrepreneurs is potentially overspending, spending, especially in the sales culture focus on like the

211
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:41,160
wining and dining of clients, trying to find the mix of where is that effective versus where is that just slightly hiding your

212
00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:47,000
personal lifestyle spend through the business and not realizing that's holding the business back, you're not finding more effective

213
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:52,160
ways to have a better marketing channel or better sales way of bringing those leads in.

214
00:15:52,160 --> 00:16:01,000
That's, that's well said. Thank you. You're training me, by the way. I'm appreciating this because I mean, I'm, I'm very frugal

215
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:09,440
with how I do things. Part of that is my upbringing. Part of that is just, I'm a pretty simple person. And so I don't have to deal

216
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:16,240
with that a lot, but I've definitely had clients where I can be more direct and helping them realize like, Whoa, you're spending way

217
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:25,800
too much on these, these processes. And, you know, you might, you might be better off simplifying, like you said, that, that runway

218
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:32,680
for how you attract your clients and bring them on board. So thank you for that. You also brought up something that, that

219
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:41,400
intrigued me a lot in terms of the entrepreneur who's at that shoestring budget, wearing many hats, you know, working 24 seven,

220
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:51,720
you know, or whatever the challenges that they're facing at those preliminary stages. Ryan, what, what, what good things are

221
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:57,640
they experiencing? What green flags and what red flags are they experiencing? Where at that, they're at that point where they need

222
00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,440
to consider bringing you in as a, as a chief financial officer and as an advisor.

223
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:09,160
Well, the green flag is like they figured out product market fit. And that's like sort of the holy grail of the first startup

224
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:14,680
phase. So it's not as hard to find in more of the kind of clients that I work with. I don't necessarily work with, you know, the

225
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:23,400
cutting edge, new ideas, focus, though, that's a little bit more my, my peers in Miami were very excited about that. My focus is

226
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:30,480
often in, you know, just, it can be blue collar, but just more Main Street type businesses where the demand is very understood,

227
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:37,720
you know, if I list out the kind of products, you know, home renovations, car services, that sort of things like things that,

228
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:45,360
you know, 80% of our friends that they get in the moment are probably in the market for on a year to year basis. So in that case,

229
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:51,040
it's a little bit more of a small business approach as opposed to startups and startup, you're trying to design your way into

230
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:57,200
the market. Small business, you're more trying, you're saying, hey, there's a valid market here, we just need to do our job

231
00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:02,720
right. And then there will be the right demand, we just need to, you know, get our piece of it by, you know, finding that right

232
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:09,440
angle or just sort of copying the competition enough that we can, you know, learn and grow up and mature a little bit. So probably

233
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:14,640
the green flags there, like if you have that, you know, one million, $2 million, $3 million of revenue coming through, it's

234
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:20,960
probably still a bit cyclical, there's still a bit of erratic behavior there, you don't maybe have a fully predictable. But if you have

235
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:27,000
that, it's like, that's, that's huge, you know, like you've already done so much to get there. And sometimes it takes 10 years plus to

236
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:32,760
get there, you know, you don't get to work by the stories of, you know, on YouTube or Instagram, or whatever, the person saying,

237
00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:38,640
oh, I did this in 90 days, you know, and there's gonna be those stories all the time. And those are gonna go viral. But a lot of the

238
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,960
clients that I'll work with, like, this is what they do with their lives, too. Like, they've just sort of picked a space and they've

239
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:51,120
committed to it. And that's allowed them to, you know, they survived enough of the early issues in the dawn. So that's why I say, to me,

240
00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:56,880
the green flags, like you've already come so far, you've already hit the most difficult things, you have the beginning, you have the

241
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:02,320
customer list, you have a couple key people on your team that are really good at what they do. Some of them maybe aren't fully

242
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:07,400
appreciated yet, because they still have to do something they're good at and something they're bad at, you know, you're not a big enough

243
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:13,960
company to let them just focus on what they're really, really good at, or give them the right tools potentially even for that. So

244
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:19,920
there's some of those are the green flags I'm seeing, you know, if you have five star reviews coming in, or you have that kind of

245
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:26,520
feedback from your customers, even if you're not systematizing how you collect and distribute those yet. That's a good sign, you

246
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:32,480
know, it's a good sign that you're onto something, it's a good sign that you know how to take care of those people that you're

247
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:39,120
trying to serve. And so with that sort of is a validation that you should be in business, that if you went out of business, your

248
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:44,880
competitors may not be able to serve your niche as well as you can. So you're serving community to like, then I'm just more than

249
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:50,800
happy to help you grow and find those other people you haven't been able to serve yet, and figure those pieces out. So some of the

250
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:58,040
things are, if you start to sort of think of it as like, oh, this is as far as I can go. So then you start to optimize for that. So

251
00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:05,560
for example, you assume, okay, I'm here, and I'm making this money, so I can spend all myself like this, there's no negative there. But

252
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:12,440
you're not really necessarily building something that's gonna grow into the next step. I've talked to people where they're at one

253
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:20,680
level in their, they like some of the cash flow that they have. And they like the idea of moving to the next level. But I've been

254
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:27,480
like, I'm not quite sure if they have the commitment to put in the time or reinvest the capital or even just culturally change a

255
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:34,840
little bit from a I from like a I or me approach to like a we or like team approach, and how they lead the business, you know, so

256
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:42,200
that can be hard, it can be hard to like let go of some of those pieces. To sort of say, oh, I'm the owner of this business, and I

257
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:47,760
can accept the rules, but I will abide by the rules that I'm setting for the team. Because when I'm in the business, I'm gonna have

258
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:54,440
the same rights and responsibilities that my team member would be like if I'm, if I'm the GM, and the lead salesperson, I'm not

259
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:59,400
going to pretend to be the GM when I'm the salesperson, I'm going to follow our sales script, or I'm gonna, you know, I'm not

260
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:05,920
gonna unduly discount just to get the sale done, because I'm the GM and I can do it. I'm gonna, you know, stick to the plan, make

261
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:15,280
sure we don't use price erosion to, you know, devalue our brand in the marketplace, but to sort of follow that rule or follow the

262
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:22,240
sort of the structure that's being done. So that's potentially a red flag is if you feel like the business is your toy, and you get

263
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:27,200
to do with it what you want, it's like, that's fine. But like, the more you make something a hobby, the less it serves others, the

264
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,880
less it serves others, the less maybe value that you can build through it.

265
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:39,760
Well said, man. And then that creates a set of handcuffs for you to have to deal with. And it seems like you understand healthy

266
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:48,160
boundaries, healthy boundaries, and don't want that relationship. So smart wise, wise plan there. As business owners, we have

267
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:55,200
the opportunity to say, you know, what am I, am I doing this to the people I work with? You know, and how do I then shift my

268
00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:04,040
mindset so that I'm not creating problems like that? And we just had Shiraz on today as well. And he's a manifestation coach, and

269
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:16,120
he talked about doing an exercise where you write down, why don't I want to dot dot dot, right, as a framework for uncovering

270
00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:24,440
what our limitations are. So if I, why don't I want to allow Ryan Holden to audit my books? Right? That's an example. Why don't I

271
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:36,480
want to allow Ryan Holden or a CFO to go through my P&L statements or to take a look at our cash flow? There's a lot of things that

272
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:44,880
we can tell ourselves entrepreneurs to get ourselves to get out of our own way. So with that said, let's dive in real quick to

273
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,960
what's your personal vision, Ryan? What do you what do you see for yourself over the coming years?

274
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:58,600
So part of my vision is to sort of build alongside with my clients and to get to that point where I don't feel like I'm in that

275
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:04,200
stage two where I'm just trying to, you know, scram everything, figure everything out, do everything myself, and sort of feel like

276
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:10,200
I'm part of a team and to see the need even that I'm just like a year or so plus or minus depending on how you count the

277
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:18,080
beginning into this just already seeing myself being a part of a team of the some of the clients I work with and I'm gonna have

278
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:24,520
to have even just a few months with in the trenches, figure out some things getting some wins for them. We had to just be able to

279
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:33,320
go along with them and sort of have a part in that and take a yeah, take take a piece of that potentially as well too, depending

280
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:40,720
on the mix like a lot of my CEOs. And this maybe helps us transition to some broader topics potentially we might cover later in the

281
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:50,000
call but like a lot of CEOs, they're not the CEO you'll hear about in the paper or on the news. Like that CEO is often maybe even

282
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:56,320
maligned a little bit in the current business environment. But a lot of the CEOs are very more similar to you know, you and me

283
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,480
just like they're just trying to do something for the family, they're trying to take care of something, really, really hard

284
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:05,560
workers are really passionate and really knowledgeable about their field. And they're just trying to do the best that they can.

285
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:11,160
And it's like, and they handle a lot of risk, they take a lot of hits, when something goes wrong, they're the ones that pay for it.

286
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:18,520
Because the employee walks or, you know, they're trying to deal with all these issues, transitions, new rules coming through, it's

287
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:25,040
like, yeah, there's just so much that they're here for. And so they just love to be able to, you know, take one piece of that in one

288
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:33,560
slice and then sort of insulate them from issues coming from that, that aspect of it. Yeah, speaking of these CEOs, like they're

289
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:40,600
they're not the sort of like the, oh, I built all this, you know, I want to own all of it, I, you know, everybody else say away. But I

290
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:46,920
see a lot for those that have been in for a little bit, like they do understand the people that they're working with, they love

291
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:52,640
working with them to they sort of have their team minds are at least the ones that I've gravitated to have. And they're looking at

292
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:59,000
things even at, you know, considerable cost to the business of launching things like, you know, employee 401k plans that allow the

293
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:05,000
employee to buy into the business, you know, there's some tax code things out there that allow some benefits for that to happen

294
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:09,880
potentially is more of something that's maybe more closer to the 10 million, $20 million a year mark that starts to become a little

295
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:15,680
bit more feasible. But there's some methods where there where, you know, whether or not the employee wants it, it's like the owner

296
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:24,080
sort of embraces and sees this value of ownership of, you know, democratization, so to speak, of equity and sort of owning a piece of

297
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:30,320
the action. And they're wanting to share it, you know, it's like they're very liberal and open in that way, and that generosity. And so

298
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:37,680
it's just really neat to see that. And that's part of my vision, too. It's like, I love seeing that. I grew up more in, you

299
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:43,400
know, upper or lower middle class, depending on which towns I was in, began a little more in the upper middle class side, but

300
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:51,760
then I've seen enough worse, I'm more lower middle class, there's a bit of mix of that. But definitely, in the US, we don't have,

301
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:58,000
maybe it's emerging, because of the dynamics that are changing in the society around us. We don't necessarily have a very, very

302
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:05,120
large, or like landed gentry class, like you potentially read about in the past, where we only hear about those people because

303
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:11,640
those are the kind of people that had the higher rates of literacy or leisure time to, you know, self report on these things

304
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:19,400
compared to what we experience now, where, you know, potentially, 3%, 5% of the US is ultra wealthy, and then you have another 10%,

305
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:25,840
maybe 15% upper middle class, and then so on from there. So it's a little bit more rare, but potentially, it's changing with a

306
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:31,320
little bit more of the content creator mindset, as opposed to the 9 to 5 wage earner mindset. People realizing that

307
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:38,040
ownership is valuable. And even if they feel a little bit late to the table from a real estate ownership standpoint, or

308
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:45,040
industrial or manufacturing standpoint, there's still a lot of territory within the services, or, you know, someone putting up a

309
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:52,040
website, or somebody sticking claim in a particular social media site and niche and sort of getting to own a set of eyeballs.

310
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:59,360
And then that set of eyeballs or attention becomes very, very valuable, and can be resold or traded upon or invested in, and

311
00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:07,400
gives this person an asset, you know, even if they didn't have, you know, 100k or 200k to buy into more of a legacy or older

312
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:12,640
version of asset. But anyways, all these different ways of saying is like, I love looking at life, not just through a I want to go to

313
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:19,920
a job clocking clock out and live for the weekends. But it's like the what what am I here to steward and take care of? How can I

314
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:28,240
sort of own that in a valuable way? And then with that, there's just so many options to finance it, distributed and take pieces of

315
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:35,280
it and give it to top employees, you know, give it to your kids. This is one reason why wealth is maybe sometimes more

316
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:41,000
important than income. When we talk about social concerns, you can't give your job to your kid, you could give your business to

317
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:47,360
your kids, you know. So there's a bit of a mix here. And I've always been attracted to a lot more of that mindset ever since like

318
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:52,120
reading, you know, Rich Dad, Poor Dad or other books that were asked back in my preteens.

319
00:27:53,120 --> 00:28:00,280
Absolutely. I didn't read Rich Dad, Poor Dad in my preteens. That's pretty cool that you did, though. And I'm glad once I did, it

320
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:08,640
became a foundational mindset shift for me. So I'm glad you I'm glad you give some credit to the reference for those who are on

321
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,720
the path and journey. I'm going to break down a number of things that you talked about, Ryan, because it was just it was so

322
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:19,560
impressive. And there was so much that was there. One, when you first talked about slices, one of the things that caught my

323
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:26,760
attention was that you weren't referring to the slice of the pie of the equity, you were referring to taking the weight of the

324
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:33,920
pressure and the responsibilities off the shoulder of the entrepreneur. At least that's what I heard. You talk fast. So I was

325
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:43,080
just trying to keep it all together. But I was like, I was like, Oh, man, this is a finance guy who understand who feels an

326
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:49,960
empathy towards those he serves. That's that's really cool and helpful. It also reminded me I was like, huh, I was like,

327
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:57,520
that's the that's ultimately one of the greatest signs that somebody's moved their mindset towards being a chief, right, the

328
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:06,040
chief finance officer. A lot of people receive that title because they should write that's what you should do on your next

329
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:15,360
step in your career. But there's a difference between should and could and your ability to pursue ICU stepping that role as

330
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:23,680
like this is a I could do this. So therefore I will not because society is pressuring you to crime climb the ranks, but

331
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:31,480
you're looking at business very holistically. And that's, I admire that. Like I'm eating it up, man. It's cool.

332
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:38,760
I appreciate you calling that out. So it's like, I definitely gravitate to and I see things from the finance perspective. But

333
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:43,960
I was recently talking with a client, he's like, Oh, what are your top five things? And I thought about it. And I realized

334
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:50,840
two of them are finance, one of them is accounting, but the other two are ops and HR. So it's like, sort of that that piece

335
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:56,400
of, you know, I don't just come in and it's like, if I came into your business, and I just looked at the numbers and just

336
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,720
said number seven, finance stuff, it's like, I'd be bored. Like, I'd still be in corporate, I don't want to do that. No, it's

337
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:07,080
like, I love the CFO part. And it's a bit of a misnomer. It's like, you know, if you look at my experience, I'm more

338
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:12,760
equivalent to like a finance manager, or control or accounting manager in corporate, but it's like the CFO part is

339
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:18,200
because of that context, I see the full picture and how it relates across the different dimensions. It's like, when I'm

340
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:23,080
talking to you about finance, it's not just about like, Oh, let's do this, because this is financial engineering, or

341
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:28,760
this is how I can talk with your bankers or your accounts on your behalf, I can actually have that language with you. But

342
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:33,960
it's more like, if you're ops managers on the call, I can tell them what does this mean for margins? Does this mean that

343
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,840
this is a good client for us to take on or not? I can talk with your salesperson, marketing person, you know, what's our

344
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:47,240
cost of fire customer, what's our customer lifetime value? So our CAC, your CLTV. And then how does that relate? What

345
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:52,280
does that sort of tell us about where we're where we have gaps? Because what we don't want to do is have, you know,

346
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,600
three things that are going well, and one thing that's holding everything back, and then just keep on putting more

347
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:01,320
resources into three things are going well, and that's not really gonna change anything. You put the resources into the

348
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:06,040
gap that's holding you back, fix that and all of a sudden, you sort of have this highway where everything's smooth and

349
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:12,600
flowing forward. So yeah, I appreciate you mentioning that. I just love the connections within that. You know, that sort of

350
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:18,120
allow me to handle sort of own the accounting piece or sort of help whatever keeping team is in place own that

351
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:23,640
accounting piece, and then make it you know, play nice with the other groups so that sales and operations now have a

352
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,640
full team around them. They're not just feeling like they have to do the work by themselves.

353
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:33,960
It's gonna help me. I'm telling you right now, it's gonna help me in the future as I continue to evaluate

354
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:39,560
chief financial officers, because I think sometimes we give the chief technology officer and the chief

355
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:46,920
financial officer the like, well, they get the title because we need one, but we don't necessarily put the time and

356
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:51,800
attention on helping them develop the leadership skills they need. And you've been, I mean, it's kind of clear that you've

357
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:58,440
been rocking that part. So thank you for that. I'm also going to point out too, so sound finance, did you say

358
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:08,040
sound finance has existed for a year now? The personal LLC really, that sort of just a risk structure for behind it.

359
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:14,040
That's been a year and a half now. That's sort of my shift from W to work to a mix of like consulting work and this.

360
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:21,560
And then I recently rebranded into sound finance to just figure it out as a little bit more of the direction I wanted

361
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:28,280
to head. I happen to live in the Puget Sound, which is a beautiful area in northern Seattle, all the way up into

362
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:35,560
Canada, that whole area right there. So there's sort of a geographic link in there as well. So yeah, that's my company.

363
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:45,000
And I'm currently the group CFO. I like the term group CFO. It's sort of the reciprocal of the fractional CFO space that I am in.

364
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:50,840
For all of my clients, I'm fractional for them, but then I see them as a group together. And so for me, I can sort of

365
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:57,400
learn something from one of them, apply it to another one. Like I get to be in the space sometimes a couple times.

366
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:03,240
Other times I'm learning something from somebody that's really good at sales. And then I go to another company that's much better

367
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:09,000
at operations and sort of mix and match how they see things, how they learn. So it's like, I love that group aspect.

368
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:15,240
It gives me the variety and independence in my work that I appreciate. So anyways, yeah, for now, it's speed building.

369
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:21,960
It creates harmony. It creates harmony that's healthy and important for most businesses that oftentimes often try to stifle that

370
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:28,600
and eliminate that from happening. So I really like that. Smart marketing. Smart marketing is often

371
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:35,800
coercion, persuasion, or imitations that allows us to see things in a new light that we couldn't otherwise catch.

372
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:43,080
So I like it. Let me go to, so what I was going to say with that too, though, is that it's neat because yes, we're going to be

373
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:48,920
serving those who are at the three to five million and beyond head of the hundred million, but you're going through the

374
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:57,000
experience right now of understanding what it's like to start things from scratch. And so the empathy is building as you go,

375
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:02,920
even though you've got a pretty strong base of that already. That's fun, man. I'm excited for you. I'm excited to see where it

376
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:10,840
ends up over the next 10 years. So let's talk about, this can be your personal worst business experience ever or the worst

377
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:18,520
business experience you've kind of witnessed. Obviously, protect the brands in this equation. But so that the entrepreneur is in

378
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:25,640
that, again, that phase three to five, head of the hundred million. What's a breakdown that you've experienced that could have been

379
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:36,440
avoided? Well, there's a set of financials I once reviewed and I only had a short window of interacting with this particular

380
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:45,080
business. So there's not necessarily some longitudinal weight to it. But it was a company that basically needed to cut their

381
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:51,640
overhead in half and triple their volume to make sense. So it's like they were operating, they were operating a startup mode, but

382
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:59,800
they didn't realize it. And so for me, just seeing that, like, I just saw the writing on the wall, and I just don't know at what

383
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:08,040
point that, no, they're not going to be able to make payroll or one of their creditors is going to call them out on it, or one of

384
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:13,560
their big vendors is going to say, no, I'm not delivering you anything more. And they have to like shut down jobs, lose some

385
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:20,360
customer deposits, etc. But just sort of seeing that the business had made it that far was quite an education for me, because I

386
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:25,560
tend to be more, which hopefully you want in your CFO, a little bit more risk averse, a little bit more wanting to like play

387
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:31,240
defense and go from strength to strength. This person was just more like a firebrand, like, let's make it happen. And we'll figure

388
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:37,960
it out after we go along. And so for me, I hope that it's not one of those cases where this person was just putting all these

389
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:45,320
things together, causing a lot of, you know, moving the money between the shell, sort of the shell game, the purling shell game,

390
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:51,880
making it look like things are happening. And for all I know, like my most, based off of what I saw there, I feel like there's a

391
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:58,920
couple options. One is, you know, it burns and blows up. But a potential side thing of this would be the opposite of the kind of

392
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:05,000
CEOs I like to work with, where this person potentially is not the true steward of the business. They put the business

393
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:11,880
together, they run it off of their credit and other people's credit. And they pay themselves a salary along the way. And they

394
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:18,600
just understand that at some point it's going to break. Because they're running it that way into crashing. Like, like if you look at

395
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:25,400
like some of those months that this was a seasonal business, so they shouldn't be have stronger volume during like the late

396
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:32,360
spring, summer months, etc. Even in some of the months that should have been good, they were having negative gross profits, it's

397
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:39,880
like not even their jobs that they were doing. They weren't even breaking even on those. And so then couple out with like $100,000 a

398
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:46,680
month overhead, and you're not really going anywhere. If you're going deeper into the ground, and they didn't really have the

399
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:53,240
right awareness to turn it up. So the person I was talking with that is sort of already had some of that accounting

400
00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:58,200
relationship with the company before me, they mentioned that they said some of these things, but eventually, but either not the

401
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:05,320
way to cause a turnaround, or the person just wasn't accepting it. So for me, it didn't affect me personally, because I was more

402
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:12,680
of a potential advisor ships passing the night had sort of a touch point into the business got to review their financials. But for me,

403
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:18,920
that's that's a sad story of the opposite of this, where, you know, say the mortgage crisis happens, all of a sudden, we're blaming

404
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:26,280
Wall Street, it's like we see walls, I've seen Wall Street level techniques, even in small businesses, you know, you play a Wall Street

405
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:34,440
trap. If you if you buy a house on a mortgage that you don't understand and can't afford, and the moment you lose your job, you want

406
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:42,520
somebody else to foot the bill, you play a Wall Street game, if you run a business like this, try to tell everybody else it's all

407
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:51,400
working, and then disappear with your slightly maybe overpaid salary, and let the sellers and customers and government try to

408
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:57,480
pick up the tab while you declare bankruptcy and then go start the game again next year. So I hope that's not the case. But that was

409
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:04,920
the most likely thing that I saw happening with that business. If somebody is just willing to take all the risk, try things, they'll

410
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:10,360
use their ownership leverage to pay themselves the salary that they want. And if things go bad, they use bankruptcy or something

411
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,520
else like that to just bounce and try again without maybe learning any of the lessons.

412
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:24,600
Oh, that's a tough one. You know, I would say that I don't I don't want to throw myself in that bucket too harshly. And with my past

413
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:32,040
businesses, but at Restaurant Connect, you know, we we did not have the finances coming in. You know, we learned that the hard way we

414
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:39,080
weren't looking at the numbers, the financial numbers until we were about a month in and realized we were just burning cash left and right.

415
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:45,720
And it was it was, you know, my business partner's wife who looked into it and started to see like, wow, you guys really aren't doing this

416
00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:52,760
the right way. And it took us three years to get to where we were at thirty six thousand and recurring monthly revenues. And so I think

417
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:58,920
it's there's a fine line there. You know, there's there's J.K. Rowling who wrote a wrote a book on a napkin and became a billionaire.

418
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:07,960
I'm sure she got some financial advice along the way and figured out more beyond the napkin. But, you know, it's one you're right.

419
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:14,920
It's the CFO's job to sound the alarm, you know, to make sure we're aware of what's going on. And we would have we would have not made it.

420
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:23,800
I can't imagine what situation my family would have been put in had Jen in that case not looked at the finances restaurant connect. Then when

421
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:31,880
own local my company prior to that, we were down to five hundred thirty seven dollars in the bank account and still trying to put things together.

422
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:40,320
I closed a couple of deals for the organization. It was about 30, I don't know, thirty three thousand dollars in revenues.

423
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:46,680
But Paul Buckeye, Matt Cutts ended up investing 10 million dollars in our company two weeks later.

424
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:55,560
Who would have ever made it without that investment? You know, we were we were toast. They were already planning the exit and had told me not to come back to work to close those deals.

425
00:39:55,560 --> 00:40:01,080
I bring that up because, yes, there's there's risk involved in building companies.

426
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:15,160
But if you can start learning the principles of wise stewardship, you use that you use that term earlier, being a steward in the process, then it doesn't it doesn't have to be as risky as we often make it out to be.

427
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:21,520
If we're willing to learn the lessons and the rules that people like you are capable of providing.

428
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:32,840
So let's talk about staying independent on the one hundred million dollar journey and how you go about doing that responsibly. We don't have time to crack every code for you, for those who are listening.

429
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:43,520
But in addition to the best experience of business, I'd rather shift gears and say for those businesses who want to stay independent and want to go on a hundred million dollar journey, you have five minutes, Ryan.

430
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:51,320
How do we do it? So I'll begin with a question that I heard in my more startup focused MBA.

431
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:56,800
Would you rather own one hundred percent of a five million dollar business or 20 percent of a hundred billion dollar business?

432
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:04,320
And I think that's part of the key question here. Like, it doesn't mean that you have to necessarily partner up with a VC or private equity.

433
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:11,440
But sort of the question of am I willing to to share? Am I willing to take a piece of the pie and realize that others have their claim?

434
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:25,280
Like, do you want to sit at a table with just your family and you guys are all eating and you own everything on the table or do you want to sit at a banquet hall with 25 of your closest friends and you're having a blast and there's more than enough food for everybody?

435
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:30,120
So sort of like you need to culturally know what you want. Maybe this changes over time, maybe this changes.

436
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:35,040
Maybe there's a business that's a pet project. You never want to take that past. You own the hundred percent.

437
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:45,760
Maybe another business is more like you see the potential for growth and you really want to bring partners on like you got to realize how can I make space at the table for those partners to get what they want?

438
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,880
Sometimes it's equity, sometimes it's upside, sometimes it's partnership deals that can be creatively structured.

439
00:41:50,880 --> 00:42:00,680
They don't necessarily rely so much on the usual cash or equity, but sort of realizing that cultural shift of what is needed to get to that level.

440
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:08,360
Because you can't retain a full control, full access, full personal preference and then expect to grow beyond yourself.

441
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:13,400
Like you need to be able to commit to a code or sort of figure out what am I willing to give up?

442
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:19,720
What structure or what rules am I willing to follow in order to make this business work better than myself?

443
00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:25,160
So I think that's probably the first thing is sort of have that self-awareness in there.

444
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:36,920
But then beyond that, it starts going to realize, OK, how do we take that first step? Jackson, I think you mentioned about what's stopping any particular person from wanting to have me take a look.

445
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,680
You know, maybe there's an implied sense of does this feel like a defeat? Does this feel like I'm giving up?

446
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,200
Does this feel like I might show that I'm stupid or whatever?

447
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:50,760
It's like, you know, that really matters because it's like I've seen plenty of financials, like it's messy, it's chaotic.

448
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:58,440
That's what life is. So it's like, I'm not going to blame you for wherever you are. The blame potentially is if you have the information to do something about it and you don't.

449
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:06,200
The blame isn't necessarily where you are right now, but it's whether or not you're letting that get in the way of where you want to be and where you want to push things forward.

450
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,560
So a lot of it comes down to, you know, personal fit, et cetera.

451
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:15,240
But it's tough, you know, because like a hundred million dollar business, they have to operate a lot better in certain ways than a five million dollar business.

452
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:17,080
A five million dollar business can operate based on this.

453
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,560
I think that's another statement. I'm just guessing.

454
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:25,080
I haven't been there at that level. So.

455
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:29,200
Yeah, and I mean, it's pretty different, isn't it?

456
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:37,760
Right, right. It's much more tiered and you sort of also have this shift of instead of being a group of generalists that are all like the ride or die.

457
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,480
Like, this is what we've got to do because we sort of started with this company.

458
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:48,320
You have a couple of generalists that have to transition into people like myself that can sort of accept the general part, but then start to give you out

459
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:52,080
in very specific, structured ways who's supporting this, you know.

460
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,960
So the beginning, you don't like titles. Do they really matter?

461
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,520
Like you all have relationships and you all understand the business and you also have your part over time.

462
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,720
And it makes a little bit more sense not because of title inflation or egos or anything,

463
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:12,960
but because you want somebody to be in each spot doing what they need to do so they can hand over the next person down the value chain and work together as a team.

464
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,760
You know, it's like if you're playing one on one basketball, you got to do a little bit of everything.

465
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:23,120
You're playing five on five and you're, you know, you're no good at shooting threes, but you're standing out of the three point line.

466
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:27,320
It's like you're not helping your teammate compared to knowing your role, knowing what you want to play.

467
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:31,600
So a lot of that is more on maybe the personal side and the team side.

468
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,800
But then you get a structure and like some things that maybe always don't exist.

469
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:41,000
They definitely know this as a separate role and you maybe see them once a year, a couple of times a year.

470
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:49,440
Things like human resources or finance, specifically strategic finance or some of those pieces that get beyond like the monthly bookkeeping or looking at a P&L.

471
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:59,440
A lot of those things you can, you know, you can drive by a napkin or you can fly by the seat of your pants at that size because you have enough awareness of what the business is doing.

472
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:06,400
But if you've already built out into multiple cities or you have multiple product lines, it's like average is no longer work.

473
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:12,200
Just looking at the cash amount in your bank, it's not really going to help you because that doesn't tell the full story.

474
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:20,440
You need to be able to track what is causing that, what's coming up, what's going out, why is that happening, what are the activities driving that and which ones are really making you strong?

475
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,440
Because like it can be hard to tease out.

476
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,040
Should my focus be on revenue or should it be on gross profit?

477
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:27,400
Should it be on operating profits?

478
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:28,800
Should it be on net profit?

479
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,360
Should it be on cash flow?

480
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:35,240
You know, there's going to be a mix and different seasons will have different reasons for looking at different of those.

481
00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:42,160
And from a holistic standpoint, especially if you're running a 50 million, 100 million dollar business, you should be seeing those in a timely way.

482
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:43,400
Multiple of them at once.

483
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,400
You have all those perspectives in play as you make decisions.

484
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,040
So it's like it gets more and more structured that way.

485
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:49,800
And that's what you need.

486
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,600
You're just somebody with my toolkit to sort of help map that together.

487
00:45:53,600 --> 00:46:00,760
Whereas if you're running a three million dollar business, you understand, you know, your top 20 clients by name, you can you have them on speed dial.

488
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,760
You know, everybody in your organization.

489
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:14,360
You don't necessarily need the kind of cohesion or plan that the cohesion or coordinating things together that a really solid plan and structure will get you.

490
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:27,600
But once you don't know everybody in your company on a first name basis, once you can't tie things together, once you have multiple managers doing the same things, butting heads, you know, running into each other, like you're no longer going to be operating at the same level.

491
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:28,840
You have to have a different playbook.

492
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:36,360
So for me, often it just sort of comes back to like the let's use the flow of money and the numbers to sort of tell the story of what is going on in the business.

493
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,840
But I've you know, I didn't I wasn't born in the county and begin this way.

494
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,320
I did blue collar jobs all the way through college.

495
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,720
My dad's more of a jack of all trades sort.

496
00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:47,800
So it's like I come definitely from the other side of it.

497
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:49,640
A lot of my family members are teachers.

498
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:51,800
So I just sort of have that heart to teach built into me.

499
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:58,040
So it's like if I'm working with you as CEO, it's like I'm here to try to I'm not trying to hear no hold the cards closely to me.

500
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:05,400
You just try to give you the secrets that can get you to look good enough that you kind of want to keep on pinning me or anything.

501
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:10,880
It's like I want to teach you about it. I want to let you know what I see potentially if you want to learn.

502
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,600
But actually, you work with me for a few months and you're like, hey, I figured this out.

503
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:15,760
This is what we need for now. That was great.

504
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:16,920
But maybe we'll see in a couple of years.

505
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:21,200
You know, like my goals and necessarily lock people into working with me long time.

506
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:25,000
I love it. I love that sort of I don't have a natural aspect of it.

507
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,120
But, yeah, I'm also here to teach to sort of like you'll point the way I'm not.

508
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:33,800
I don't think what I know is like private or unique or anything like that.

509
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,240
But I have the holistic view there.

510
00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:43,240
And I found that it helps unlock for my clients that shift of stepping into that next piece that they're less than they're with.

511
00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:44,840
Like, they're definitely the industry experts.

512
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:47,000
They know the operation piece. But I can speak to that.

513
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:52,560
Like, I've seen enough that earlier this year, I was talking with a client.

514
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:57,240
So my first interview or maybe not my first interview, just the CEO.

515
00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:00,920
But then I had to repeat one with more of a panel interview situation.

516
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:06,920
And within like 15 minutes into the call, they asked me if I'd been working in their industry for 10 years.

517
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,400
I was like, no, I've never worked in your industry.

518
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:15,080
But that's what happens when you have the right person in the room talking to you about what they're expert about.

519
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:20,960
And so maybe I can be that person for you. Maybe there's somebody you already know, a friend, a family member you need to reach out to,

520
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,680
that you trust, that you can sort of bring in and help sort of be that second pair of eyes.

521
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:26,640
You know, we're all going to have our blind spots.

522
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:34,440
And I think for me, part of that whole idea of group is we can get beyond just being individuals having to do it all and figure it all out.

523
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:41,240
Compared to maybe being a little bit more formality to bring others in so that as more of a team approach, we can develop and move on.

524
00:48:41,240 --> 00:48:48,960
And then from what I've seen, you know, hitting that 10, 20, 50, 100 million dollar level, there just keeps on being more and more value that you can pull out.

525
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:50,440
There is the potential there.

526
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,600
In most cases, you're not running out of your market.

527
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:58,920
Unlike, you know, these million dollar startups that are putting so much funding behind something for them, it's important to understand how big their market is.

528
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:04,000
For a lot of mainstream businesses, you don't necessarily need to know because there's always more room.

529
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:11,000
Like, you know, there's so many mistakes going on in business that if you can make just a few mistakes less than the person next to you, there's a lot of opportunity for you.

530
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:16,840
So I love finding those people that figured out a recipe that's maybe just a few mistakes better than average.

531
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:25,920
And then we can just keep on developing that, building that out and, you know, ultimately giving better options to the customers that we're serving.

532
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:32,520
When I was 22 years old, I could tell what a rock star you were just by the amount of passion you throw down as you speak, Ryan.

533
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:37,000
Now that I'm 36 years old, I can I can hear it as well.

534
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:46,040
I do want to circle. I mean, we're out of time, but guys, if you're listening into this right now, I just I hope you see the the wisdom that exists

535
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:49,120
and what Ryan is sharing for growth at all levels.

536
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,360
Do you play an instrument, Ryan? Are you a musician?

537
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:57,280
I don't really think of myself as a musician, but yeah, what do you play percussion or what?

538
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:02,800
Piano classical piano. OK, I've never met somebody.

539
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:07,880
Everybody I've ever met is extremely intelligent, tends to play an instrument.

540
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:16,000
And so I had to ask, I'm sure I'm looking forward to the day I meet the person who's not a musician that has your level of intelligence because I'm sure they exist.

541
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:22,600
But I digress a little bit. You talked about this, would you rather you talked about the culture and the banquet halls.

542
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:24,720
I love that. I never thought about that before.

543
00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:27,760
You talked about moving from the ride or die to the structure.

544
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:33,440
And it's funny because if you look at Bass and the Furious, which is one of the biggest coiners for the ride or die scenario,

545
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:40,640
they were in the same process of creating structure throughout a series of movies where it just takes off more and more to greater levels.

546
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:44,440
Even they went through it. So moving from ride or die to structure.

547
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,880
Now, you're what you're putting out there.

548
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:53,320
You said you're you're you have the ability to be private with what you do, but you're not.

549
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,520
You said you're not unique. I don't believe that for a second.

550
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:58,640
And I are you're not supposed to argue with your guests.

551
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,960
I'm argue with that. You are unique.

552
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:08,760
And those businesses are looking to hire you are going to be very lucky and fortunate to work with you because of that passion,

553
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:10,960
because of that real oneness, real oneness you have.

554
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:18,960
I don't in these shows by promoting my guests and saying, hey, man, like, you know, I hope everybody works with you.

555
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:25,120
But there's one of you that exists and there's thousands and thousands,

556
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:35,040
not millions of businesses at the level with which you're working at and know your ability to dive from dive into what's necessary at the hundred million dollar mark

557
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:41,000
compared to being able to focus in and isolate on the the difference in business at the three to five million.

558
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:45,480
It's unique. And I really appreciate you coming on, sharing that with the I got to run.

559
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,520
You know that I told you I go pick up my daughter. I'm excited.

560
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:51,000
I get to go spend some time with my little daughter, daddy, daughter date night.

561
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:56,560
But if I could talk to you for another hour, I would because this was magical.

562
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:59,240
Thanks, Jackson. Happy to be here. Yeah, absolutely.

563
00:51:59,240 --> 00:52:01,600
Vision pros. You guys have a fantastic day.

564
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,720
Feel free to drop comments, questions in the comments, too.

565
00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:07,280
I'm sure Ryan and I would be happy to put looms together for you.

566
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:09,960
Basically recorded videos to do that.

567
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,160
And I will be bringing Ryan on in the future if he will.

568
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,280
Bless us with more of his time. It would be super fun.

569
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,120
So you guys have a fantastic evening. Ryan, thanks for being here.

570
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,920
Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.

571
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:26,800
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward.

572
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,360
This is going to get more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement as well.

573
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:32,440
We'll invite people to participate in the show.

574
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,080
And thank you.