If we are, have fun.
I'll dance a little bit.
All right.
What's up, Vision Pros?
I've got Haley Rowe joining us today.
We're going to be talking about expanding reach, expanding our impact, lead generation
and marketing.
She's a business coach who helps health companies.
And we'll also look at what are the types of businesses that she works with and just
a little bit too.
And as we talk about marketing, remember to have a holistic view of marketing.
You got branding, you got conversions.
You got Legion, you got nurturing, you got fulfillment.
All of that stuff is often sporadic and not tied together very well.
And if you think about it, branding is kind of like a marathon experience, whereas direct
conversion is kind of like sprinters and sprinting.
And so even though they might be part of the same Olympic team, they don't necessarily
appreciate what each other do and they don't do the same workouts.
They don't do the same exercises.
Marketing is the same way.
It's an entire department.
You got a lot of different things to facilitate and pull together.
And so we look for people who have that sense of harmony and understand the importance of
approaching business the right way.
So I'm excited to bring Haley on board and talk about that.
And without further ado, we'll drive into, oh, it looks like she dropped off.
It might be a technical glitch thing, but we'll see.
I'm going to start the show.
And if she comes back, we'll bring her on.
And thanks for being here, everybody.
Let's dive in.
All right.
Welcome in to Vision Pros Live with Jackson Calame.
I'm your show host.
We will be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs and guest leaders who are building
fantastic visions out there.
What's up, everybody?
Welcome into Vision Pros Live.
I'm your show host, Jackson Calame, founder and CEO of First Class Business.
And we have Haley Rowe on deck.
It'll be interesting to see if she's able to get back and connect it.
If not, we'll just highlight a little bit about what we know about Haley and we'll do our
best to represent who she is as a coach in the world and get her on deck, too.
But before we go into Haley, we're going to talk about some of the sponsors that we have
here.
These are not paid for sponsors, by the way.
These are businesses that I work directly with that I just really love.
One of them is one of our providers, ColdClick.
They help us with our LinkedIn automation, which, again, we're going to be talking about
that today, how to do messaging effectively.
We'll get Haley's opinion on that.
Good.
I see her on the back studio again, so we're good to go there.
I was worried.
It's like, maybe I said something that offended Haley and she abandoned Chip.
We don't know each other super well.
So a lot of this is very raw and real as we talk about Vision.
And I'm grateful to have her here.
It's going to be fun.
Anyway, ColdClick, very important.
Oh, I saw her smile.
And so I know she's good to go, but there must be some internet thing going on.
So anyway, I'm going to keep going.
Tapmental.io is the other solution that I wanted to highlight.
Tapmental is run by David Goodall.
And if you're in the construction space or you have a husband or wife who works in blue
collar businesses, Dave's got the personality to really help with mindset shifts and understanding
how to implement the right systems based on where you're at as a business owner in order
to help you gain your time back.
And he works with a lot of really, really impressive companies.
And every time I've talked to him about strategy and systems and what he does, the man cuts
through it like a hot knife through butter, like through frozen butter.
It is so cool.
He's like, that's how you do it, Jackson.
I'm like, dang, dude, like he really gets it.
So I do recommend taking out Tapmental.
Love the guy.
Appreciate him super a whole lot.
Now let's go into the water project.
The water project is something that I always talk about on the show, as you know, and if
you haven't shared it yet, do me a favor, share it with people or tell us what is the
cause that you would recommend.
We've got a couple of people tuned in.
Said Rajee, if you know of a nonprofit organization that you would like to see us contribute to
or talk about, please drop in the comments.
I recommend it.
We have so much opportunity to give back in this world.
The water projects, the place that I choose to give back to most because it's just so
transparent.
You can see where your dollar goes and you can change the lives of people who don't have
access to clean drinking water so they can spend more time in school, spend more time
taking care of their families, spend more time looking for jobs or creating an economy.
The type of impact that we can have by raising up the rest of the world that does not have
access to cool technologies like StreamYard, what we're using to host this podcast or the
automation systems we're using or the ability to hire somebody like Haley in the first place
to help us with our growth.
These people, they don't often have access to those types of resources because they don't
even have access to water.
So it's the least we can do.
There's my no shame, beg you into helping me help the world.
And I really appreciate everybody who does their best to either give back or to share
it with somebody who might be able to do that.
So without further ado, I'm going to bring Haley on board.
So Haley has a system called FAST, Framework for Marketing.
She has business tips as well.
I really want her to define where she's at in terms of what types of companies she's
working with these days because as marketers, we tend to gain experience in different types
of companies and transform as we go.
So Haley, thanks for joining me on VisionPros today.
I appreciate having you.
Thank you.
I'm excited to be here.
Absolutely.
So who's your market right now?
Who should be listening in and why should they be listening to you specifically?
Yeah.
So my market is usually health, life and mindset coaches and or service providers.
So usually in the online space.
And why listen to me?
Well, a couple of things.
One, I used to work in business development and marketing for startups and they were usually
personal development based or wellness companies.
And what I learned from that experience is there are so many hats you have to wear as
an entrepreneur and so many things you are just forced to figure out.
And I had totally put I thought I had my dream job.
I moved across the country for working for a wellness startup and I loved it.
And I had just been told, oh, my gosh, you're going to maybe even get a promotion.
But what happened was they had a bunch of delays that they did not foresee.
They had brought everybody on board maybe a little too soon.
And the entire team was let go actually on this day back in 2017 in one day.
And that was my cue to be like, you know what?
I always thought, well, even though I had a bachelor's degree in entrepreneurship, I
had coaching certifications, I had started businesses on my own on the side, you know,
throughout the previous like six or seven years, I had always told myself, I can't go
full time in my business.
I need more experience or I need to figure more things out.
And what I realized when working at the startup was you they're all figuring it out.
There's no time where you just have it all.
You have the experience, you have all the things ready.
You just have to start and figure it out before you feel ready.
So that's when I went full time in helping health, life and mindset coaches because that
had been kind of like industries I was familiar with and had some certifications in and understood
and was passionate about.
And so I did that in 2017, started a podcast and developed what I call my FAST framework,
which stands for Followers, Action, Sales, Time Management and Transformation.
We can dive more into that if you want.
But basically, those were the things that I found are important when growing your business
and starting it.
So that's a little bit about my background and how I get into it.
Love it.
I appreciate that.
Let's define a little bit further than what's your vision for those that you serve?
What do you hope to see them accomplish?
Yeah.
Well, definitely one of my visions is to help people who have a craft.
So whether it is you love coaching or you just love whatever service you're passionate
about, be able to gain the sales and marketing skills to actually turn it into a business
instead of it being what we call like a hobby.
Because what I see a lot of people do is they're so passionate about it, but they hate sales
or they hate marketing and they can't get themselves to learn to find a way that they
enjoy it or a way that works with their strengths.
And so they end up doing a lot of free work, getting a little burnt out, needing to provide
for themselves in a different way.
And then eventually their business or what they wanted to be their business just turns
into a hobby because they were never able to figure it out.
So my vision is to help you actually sustain it and build up those skills that are required
and find it a way to do marketing your way.
And I think that there's a lot of different paths that are great.
So it doesn't have to be a one size fits all.
Absolutely.
And what about your vision for yourself?
So over the next five to 20 years, what do you see yourself?
What do you want to accomplish or what do you want to be doing?
Yeah.
Well, my other part of my mission, which I didn't share, but it's something I'm passionate
about for myself too, is I really believe that if we want to do something, we have the
capacity.
And to give people an internal locus of control through the method of business is really what
I'm passionate about.
I love seeing women or people who are newer to business see themselves like, wow, I didn't
think I could do that.
And I did.
So for me, my game or my vision is to just keep doing that with myself, keep breaking
the ceiling of what I thought I could do.
And I'm going to be doing that through my monthly membership that I've started this
year and through just continuing to help clients and grow the business and make client, I'm
really prioritizing cleaning up all of my stuff.
So I've been doing little back behind the scenes audits of all my programs and landing
pages and stuff.
I'm in a phase right now of really slowing down to speed up.
And it's been really exciting what I think is coming in the future.
So yeah.
That's awesome.
I think that was one of the most clearly defined personal visions that I've probably had on
the show so far.
So that's cool.
I sometimes, my guests go into more of their vision for who they serve.
And that's fine too.
But I love the balance of also knowing what it is that you want for you.
And it does tie into what you're doing for others.
But there was a very clear definition of kind of what you get out of that and how it serves
your interests.
We're going to have a lot of time to dive into some of the elements that you talked
about the fast, those who are forced into entrepreneurship, focus and control.
Those are elements I might want to come back to.
If you have questions about these and you're listening in, of course, feel free to drop
it in the comments and we'll either circle back to those at the end or we'll actually
do a special shout out and do a special episode or segment, a loom video or something for
you specifically.
Whatever makes the most sense for the nature of your question.
But I want to dive into a new tone, a little bit of a darker subject.
So you've had lots of business experience already.
You've learned things in school as well.
What has been your worst business experience ever?
This is such a great question.
And I think I tend to block them out of my memory.
Sure.
It's hard for me to think of it, but I will say that one thing I learned about, I don't
think this is a bad, I can't call it like my worst experience ever because I learned
from it, but I realized that I want to not have a business partner.
Where I had a business partner and we were, and again, this was not the worst.
I adore him.
We are great companions.
He's a mentor of mine.
Not the worst thing ever at all.
But what was bad is that we were both had different visions and had different ways of
doing things.
And it just felt like we thought because we had, we're two really smart people with a
lot of talents, putting that together, we thought it'd be amplified.
But what ended up happening is we both were just always like, well, I want to do this
and I want to do this and I want to do that.
And so it just ended up being like, we're both too strong, independent people.
And we just kind of realized it wasn't working.
So that was one thing.
And then the other thing is thinking I wanted to do a ton of marketing services and I tried
to do too many.
And I realized I just need to focus on what I'm really good at, which is LinkedIn, Leadgen
for clients and my coaching and consulting for clients.
So I've narrowed it down.
And I did do, I was very focused on that for quite a while in my business, but there was
a time where I started to do, and I think we all do this as entrepreneurs, like the
shiny object syndrome, like, oh, I could do this service for them.
I could do that for them.
I could do this for them.
And that was just took me away from my core competencies.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
If anybody's faced business partner trauma, then you know what Haley's talking about.
So I've been there as well.
I've had my good partnerships and my not so good partnerships.
Also friendly relationships that we decided to split ways because the business aspect
wasn't working out.
We're still great friends, but it is definitely a different battle, a different type of way
to play the game.
And not all games are equal.
Not all sports are equal.
So there's lots of you got to gravitate towards what you're best at and what you find most
attractive for your situation.
So I appreciate the insight on that.
Do you have a best experience?
Yeah, oh my gosh, so many.
I will say one just constant is client wins.
Like I keep a whole folder of client wins that I can return back to anytime I need like
a boost of like, why am I doing this again?
So I just love seeing my clients succeed and do things they thought they can do and exceed
their expectations.
So that's one thing.
Another thing recently that was pretty cool and this happened this year is I was able
to interview Amy Porterfield and I did not expect that, but she had a book coming out
and her team reached out and said, you know, we're doing these live, this like live blips
of interviews.
And I was like, heck yeah.
So that was just super cool because she was one of my early mentors when I first started
and I had no idea like who is in this online space?
How does this work?
So that was like a full circle moment.
Can I say one other worse?
I should have said this for the worst.
Sure.
Yeah, of course.
One thing.
Okay.
This also happened this year.
I had a community that was on Facebook that grew to look over 4,500 members or something
throughout the years and great group was getting organically searched in Facebook at this point
because there were so many members that kept growing.
And I got unfortunately my page, my business page I'd been building with like 7,000 plus
followers and group hacked this year.
And that was such a pain because Facebook doesn't really support people and their support
is the worst.
So I had to start from scratch and the good news is, and what I learned from this is you,
you know, I had an email list, I had an Instagram, I had a LinkedIn.
It wasn't my only, I wasn't putting all my eggs in one basket.
So that was the good news.
The bad news is I lost years of efforts and people who were in my community and whatnot.
But it's also good because it's kind of a reawakening of like who wants to continue
on this journey with me and you start to realize that people who come back and find you in
the new groups, I started a new group called the marketing hub.
And so that was cool to see like, wow, you know, even though this happened, there are
people who continue to follow your journey.
And so that's just a whole nother thing.
I'm so glad you shared it.
Now there's so many, there's so many little powerful lessons in there, you know, and sometimes
it's that fulcrum, right?
That point that is the most powerful and the process of understanding.
It's like if you got all your eggs in one basket, like didn't make a little mental note,
you know, you want to start diversifying your outreach.
If you have a password, this password one, two, three, you know, like, sorry, I just
guessed it, but go ahead and like go in, update that password.
There's little things that need to be done.
And so many like maintenance security things I now like put in my schedule now after that
experience.
Especially as you become more on the radar, you know, and that's a big thing for people
to realize there are different levels of success and there's different vulnerabilities, just
like in marketing, we learn to pre-qualify those that we go after.
White collar criminals do the same.
They do their pre-qualifications too.
And so if you get to new stages, they're going to know like, Oh, this person's not ready
for this yet.
We can get them on scam A, B or C. You got to be, you got to be smart enough to and wise
enough to dive into those, those preparations you can make or you get them in the hard way.
And I've been there many times learning the hard way.
You don't know what you don't know.
So settle in, realize you're not alone.
A lot of us entrepreneurs, we all face serious disasters at times.
And thank you for doubling down.
That was fun.
So your best experiences were awesome.
You got Amy Porterfield to come on your show.
That's huge.
For anybody that doesn't know Amy Porterfield, just Google her.
If you Google her, you will know instantly how amazing she is.
And let's dive into your powerful lessons.
So what powerful lesson do you feel the visionaries can learn from your experience?
Ooh, okay.
What powerful lesson?
A couple of things.
One, I think one of the best things about business is it forces you to build traits
that will serve you in every area of your business that you don't even realize.
Like, so the power of just the byproduct effect of like, so for example, if let's say like
for me, I'm taking a Facebook ads course, and it's so much more than me just running
ads, learning how to do ads and learning how to make money from ads.
What's happening while I'm taking this course is I'm learning the skill of patience.
I'm learning how to be really technical.
I'm learning how to use metrics more and look at data.
I'm learning how just conversion rates and not getting my feelings involved in those.
Like there's so many little byproduct things, whether or not I'm seeing results from the
actual course itself yet, I care way more about who I become in the process.
And so what I would share with everybody is like some of the who I've become in the process
that I think has served me well is asking solution oriented questions.
So anytime in your business you're stuck or you're feeling like, why can't I figure this
out or why is this so hard?
Shifting to like, what if this was easy or what if I was borrowing beliefs from Amy Porterfield
or what if like just shifting the question to something more positive that opens up opportunities
is key.
And then the other thing is being willing.
So willingness, I had the willingness to build up this Facebook group and have it all taken
away from me.
And my snapback rate was like I was maybe sad about it for a day, but then I was like,
okay, we're starting a new group.
Here's what we're doing, blah, blah, blah.
So having the willingness to put yourself out there, get trampled on, get yourself punched
in the face and still being willing to do it, but because you just know that's part
of it because the wins are also that big and it can, you know, it's both, you're going
to have both no matter what, the bigger the wins you have, the bigger the punches in the
face you're going to also have.
So being willing to feel feelings and have a big capacity for that I think is key in
entrepreneurship because you are doing something totally uncertain.
Absolutely.
And you could say that about anything in life, to be honest, but some people feel like, okay,
the job path is more certain because I get these responsibilities.
I'm, you know, I clock in, I clock out, et cetera.
So you could argue that there's more certainty there.
But the whole point is you have to be willing to experience all of the uncertainty and defeat
and rejection, et cetera.
Well said.
I mean, you have the ability to transition, Haley, between different dialects and I think
it's fine.
I don't have as good of an ability to do that as you do.
I can see it and I can recognize and hear it, but I can't do it very well.
I'm not as diplomatic.
And so I catch some of these words that you use, like you use the word force twice already.
You also use the word wanting more control.
And there's a certain paradigm that's being built.
And those are elements that you gravitate towards as important.
You also talked about this willingness to be punched in the face.
It reminds me of that cartoon.
I don't remember what it was, but he says, not the face.
You know, it's not the face.
Hit me anywhere else, but not there.
And I was like, okay.
But you're right.
As an entrepreneur, you have to be extremely vulnerable if you're going to win.
That's my, what I, I'm an if guy.
That's what I argue with people on accidents.
I'm like, well, you know, you don't have to.
You can lose your opportunity.
But, and I like that, that reality too, because you, you paint a picture of something that
a lot of people haven't forbid.
You know, I get, I get a mark on my face.
There's this vanity we feel, right?
I usually say like, you have to be willing to let people throw sand in your face as well.
I'm like, and as an entrepreneur, you're like, you learn to wear a visor for one.
You also learn to appreciate the taste of sand.
You just, you just, so with, with those funny analogies and side tangents out of the way,
I got to ask who's the Facebook ads course.
Do you mind sharing that?
Which one are you?
Yeah.
I'm in Claire Pelotro's.
Yeah.
I think it's called, I don't, I think, I don't know the actual name of it, but that's, I
got you that.
That's good enough right there.
So you can look up on Google if you're listening, Claire Paltrow and Facebook ads, and I'm pretty
sure it'll pop up.
And we'll also, we'll be willing to put in the show notes as well.
So that's cool.
I haven't heard of her yet.
I look at John Loomer as well as an opportunity.
He's very transparent about how he does things and super holistic.
And so I don't know, Claire, otherwise I would say like, Hey, cool.
Or hey, like, Oh, interesting.
Now you guys know anybody hears my podcast and I go, Oh, interesting.
Excuse me, let's keep the vision on point.
Let's say that.
So with the powerful lessons, thank you again for that.
And for revealing some of the processes that you're continuing to work on, also revealing
that there's powerful opportunities to niche down.
I think that's really important for people to recognize as, as polarizing as I am about
that.
And I'm usually like, don't tell me niche down.
How niche is Google?
How niche is Disney?
How niche is Amazon?
That doesn't mean you can't be niche and that you shouldn't be.
This is your vision and what you're building.
And you know the type of audience that you should be going after.
So it is definitely something worth considering because it could be that key intuition that
hopefully Haley has validated for you today.
And if you look at Amazon, they started niche, they started just selling books and then they
expanded, right?
Tony Robbins started just doing hypnosis training for smokers.
And then he became unleash your power for everybody.
So I think there, I started with just health coaches.
Now I work with realtors.
I have clients who are, you know, I take it a little bit further though, too.
I would say Tony Robbins started by crying and breathing, right?
Those are the first two things he did in life.
But I think when Amazon built his, when Jeff was building that vision, I think he had a
very clear reality of where he wanted to take that at a grand scale.
So I don't think he necessarily was at that day.
And same thing with Tony.
He had the Thanksgiving thing long before he was helping the, you know, he was 14 years
old when he started to help families with Thanksgiving dinner.
So we can look, I'm not saying anything negative about niche, but you just have to know as
a human being, like, is that what your hearts and your mind is guiding you towards?
Because I say it all the time, if I had told JK Rowling, hey, don't write that book on
that napkin, it ain't going to work out.
Like that's, that's not how you do this.
There's a strategy to do it.
Had I told her to do that and she listened, we wouldn't have a billionaire author.
And so it's, it's your vision is what truly matters for you.
And then me and Haley, we come in and we facilitate, you know, or anybody else that's in the coaching
space that our, our job is to facilitate and inspire the direction you had rather than
control it.
So that's also why I love what you do.
Cause you talked about, you help these entrepreneurs gain focus and you help them gain control
over their visions and their realities.
So do you want to dive into fast or do you want to dive into other marketing concepts
that also have to do with reach impact or beyond?
I am open minded.
I can go through the framework and if any questions come up from that, we could go there
if you want.
Yeah.
So I think the, so the, whatever's going to be most beneficial from the audience, like
if this was your last 20 minutes, I guess to my audience, then what do, what would we
benefit most from?
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, I think the first thing I could go through the fast framework and kind of share the common
things I'm seeing as like mistakes or tweaks to maybe make within each.
So the framework stands for, as I said, followers, action, sales, time management and transformation.
And what I mean by followers is figuring out where have your, first of all, if you are
going to have a niche, who are they?
Who is your ideal client?
Who do you want to work with?
What do you want to help them with?
Of course, that's like your foundations you have to figure out.
But then once you know that ask yourself, have I had any past success with this niche?
So in other words, have you, when you have booked clients in the past, where did those
people find you?
What were the reasons why they signed up?
What post did it for them?
What testimonial did it for them?
Right?
Like try to really dig into that because what we want to do before we had anything new is
just do better and more of the things that have worked in the past.
So if it's been word of mouth and you don't already have a referral program or like a
some kind of incentive of bring a friend or whatever, that would be the first thing I
focus on.
So low hanging fruit first for how you can attract more clients through what has worked
in the past and then exploring, okay, where do these people who I want to attract, what
resonates with them?
Where do they hang out?
What podcasts do they listen to?
What conferences do they go to, et cetera, and deciding which of those you're going to
get in front of them.
Let's slow down.
I want to go back because I think I want to dive into some of your depths with that first
concept.
So when you talk about going back to the word of mouth customers or you talk about going
to those first customers and finding out why did they buy, you mentioned, like what influenced
them, what does that look like?
I know a lot of people in this market that say, okay, cool.
I think this person bought for this reason and I think this person bought for this reason.
So this must be what we sell from now on because two people, we think we know what two people
thought about that.
What do you actually do or recommend people do to figure that out?
Yes.
So part of what I do is I have a welcome form and I literally ask like, why did you choose
me over other options?
How did you find me?
Or I ask that in my call form too.
How did you find me?
That way I'm always keeping track of where are these people coming from.
The other thing though is when you're actually, like let's say you want to work with more
of that type of person.
So you have a client who you love.
I would ask yourself, what are the common traits you're seeing with these people and
can you bring your marketing attention to that?
So in other words, it's not, I don't say this in all my marketing, but a lot of my clients
are from the Midwest, family oriented, have a passion for wellness and personal care and
personal development.
Sometimes they're faith-based and like I could spot, like I could pretty much know if I saw
my lady, like that's her.
So I think it's good to start compiling that in your head so that when you are doing videos
and doing partnerships and stuff, you can speak to that person.
And then the other thing is if you want to get more of those kinds of clients, okay,
could you have something where you host clients and they can bring someone or could you offer
to their friends something that's a quick win and if they enroll you have some kind
of referral commission or incentive or something like that.
I think you've brought up something super valuable and a lot of things that are valuable,
but the last piece of recognizing these clients, seeing that they, being able to know who they
are like before you even met them, that takes quite a bit of self-awareness as well as market
awareness.
And when you, I'm sorry, I lost my train of thought.
It was so valuable what you said though, because when we're targeting our audiences, we need
to make sure that we have our vision dialed in.
Right?
When we have that vision dialed in and we've created a cultural space that people want to
belong to, that's what attracts that type of person to gravitate towards us.
So what you said was, I don't necessarily say, hey, if you're this woman with this
type of hair color and you wear this purse, then you would want to work with me.
You're aware of those realities that those tangibles tend to exist and those patterns,
but you're not necessarily calling that directly out in the market.
You're attracting that to you by the way you present yourself.
So I muddy the waters a little bit, but-
No, no, that's good.
It's not that I don't work with people who are from the East Coast or the West Coast
or, you know, but values wise, there tends to be some themes and traits wise, there tends
to be some themes.
So I think you bring up a good point where you don't have to be like, oh, you know, that
person doesn't seem like the right fit.
So I'm out.
Yeah.
That's big.
Well, and it's a language is more nuanced than we give credit for.
I'm like, just as easy it is to define that I don't work with people who only speak Chinese.
I'm not racist.
It's not that I don't want to work with them or I don't want to help them, but they don't
understand me and I don't understand them.
We don't speak the same language and language and dialect are very important things to realize.
So that's where also that niching down becomes, it's a very common practice.
It's important to consider doing, but especially when you're looking at promoting a product
or service.
You talked about incentive based marketing referrals a little bit too.
We could go down that path or we can continue to dive deeper into this preliminary market
research on who are those followers that you want to want to work with, which one?
Yeah, let's go with that.
Let's go with the second option.
So once you know where your people hang out, you got to decide what's going to be your
marketing platform or main focus.
So a lot of my clients, they want to start with either like local marketing or just LinkedIn
and then anything else like Instagram and Facebook is like a bonus.
You know what I mean?
So what I think is important so we don't get overwhelmed is pick where are you going to
do your marketing the most and then everything else is a bonus.
And from there we have to build out what's your process for what I call my four basics
of client attraction.
So I'm going to actually pivot off of the FAST framework and talk about these because
I think it's important.
So it stands for connect, engage, pre-offer and sell.
So what I mean by that is connect, you picked which platform or which way you want to meet
people and get in front of your ideal target audience.
So that could be being on podcasts or whatever.
But you got to connect with them and show your face and be visible and take the initiative
and not just wait for people to discover you.
The second step is engage.
So that's where you ask an intentional question or you engage them in your call to action
in your post, whatever it is.
But you have to have them share with you what is a goal, struggle, interest to them so that
you can have somewhere to go with them.
Because if your audience isn't engaging with you or you don't ever hear from them and it's
crickets it's really hard, it's like you're just shouting in an echo chamber, right?
So then the next step is we have to make a pre-offer based on what they want.
So we engage them to know what they want and need.
Now we have to give a pre-offer which is a free or a very low cost sometimes but usually
free way to give a quick win up front and have somebody see progress with you and then
be like, wow, can't imagine what your paid stuff is like if this is what I got just free,
right?
So that's the pre-offer stage.
And usually most people do that with email freebies or lead magnets where they give their
email and you give some kind of guide or gift or whatever.
But it could be a podcast, it could be what we're doing right now.
This is a bit of a pre-offer.
That's right.
And then the last stage is sales and that's where you invite to the next step whether
it's a discovery call or your webinar or your email funnel has a follow-up series or something
like that.
So all of these stages are important because what some people do is they connect and they
skip to the sale or they don't realize that there's a sales cycle where people do need
that pre-offer and maybe they need a couple before they convert.
Or people are worried to make their pre-offer really good and so they hold back and they
miss out there.
Or they're engaging with the wrong question like something that could be very offensive
like if you're a weight loss coach and you just straight away dive into a new conversation
with somebody and be like, are you looking to lose weight?
That could be maybe.
How long have you been fat for?
Yeah, that's not a good question.
Not typically, no.
And that's also alluding to the realities that I think we have a responsibility as leaders
to be sensitive, to learn to be sensitive with the concerns and the pain points of those
that we're dealing with.
We also have a flip side of that in the marketing world too.
And it's kind of a dangerous thing to play with but the market that you service, Haley,
predominantly, I shouldn't say predominantly because I don't know too well yet, but you're
helping one of the hardest markets there is which is those who are just getting started.
And it's also the most lucrative market there is.
And so there's a lot of wolves and sheep clothing that come into this market and they
look good.
They might even mean well.
I think most of the time people do.
Their intent is good, but oftentimes the selfish realities trump.
Here's an example.
A coach who, I had a golf coach, took me golfing.
We had a really fun time.
He ran me through the course basically and said, stop thinking about me, just play the
game.
And his point, and he said it, it was Jackson, too many golf coaches hold the minds of their
players hostage and that keeps them on retainer because now I can't perform if I don't have
my coach.
And so I was like, oh, yeah, I had the same exact tone, I think.
He'd have to confirm that.
But when he taught me that, I was like, wow, that's really not healthy for people who are
trying to gain confidence in what it is that they do.
So I say all of that because as people assess you, as they assess me, we need people like
you.
We need you to help the market.
We got a 96% failure rate in the country on business ownership.
And so you need coaches that have insight.
And as coaches, we get a responsibility to learn all the right formulas, to continue
to guide people forward.
And so it's a real challenge because it's like, well, do you label someone a wolf because
they did something because they had a bunch of people fail?
Like Robert Kiyosaki has a bunch of people who fail in his program.
But that man blessed my life.
My foundation is thanks to Robert Kiyosaki.
So what are your thoughts on that?
And anybody who's looking for coaching or looking for guidance, what do you do?
So many thoughts.
Because here's the thing, it is I picked a really hard group because they have the,
and it's almost like sometimes I'm like, I could have made this way easier on me, but
it's not about me.
Right?
So people have this learning curve on top of everything else, on top of never having
started a business before, so not really knowing what to expect.
So it's like, I could work with, and I do have clients who are more advanced and have
really done well in their business.
And I love those clients because I don't have to deal with the, oh, wait, this is how this
works or I'm learning this for the first time.
And like, ah, your head's like blowing off because there's just so much to learn.
But it's a tough job, but it's a rewarding job because you are the person who helped
them get their start.
But it also comes with a lot of responsibility, like you said, where I have to empower them
to learn these things so that going forward they can do it on their own.
So in other words, I'm a huge fan of the Bruce Lee quote.
This is how I take, how I go into any program when I work with a coach, what mindset I come
in with is take what's useful, discard what's not, and make it uniquely your own.
And I believe when we go into a coaching relationship, we, and this comes back to the whole theme
of the episode today, we get to decide the value we derive from it.
We get to decide I'm going to get what I came for.
I'm going to, you can go into a group coaching call thinking, oh man, this isn't going to
be useful today.
Or you could go in thinking, I'm going to hear exactly what I need to hear today and
I cannot wait to see what that message is today or whatever.
So I think it's both what the client brings to it, but also making sure that, like when
I work with my clients, I give them, they want structure, they want support, they want
checklists, they want templates, they want examples.
And I provide that, but I always say like, you get to, this is your business and I'm
not going to know all the experiences you've lived through, all the context you're bringing
to this.
And I don't work with your clients, so I don't know what they say in sessions, et cetera.
You know that and like trust your own gut too.
Because I think sometimes people go into coaching and they think, my work's done.
I paid, I'm here, let's go.
You tell me what to do and you do everything.
And I call myself both a coach and a consultant because coaches, the definition of coach is
they never give any advice.
And I give advice because I've been in their shoes and a lot of times my clients want edits
on their stuff and whatnot.
So I'm both.
But even though I am both, I still want them to be empowered to know what to do after and
whatnot and learn those skills.
So I just went on a total brain dump.
But it was a great one though.
I'm picking it all up.
Well and to prove your point, you're living proof and example of appreciating the value
of what you've been given.
And not necessarily based on the preliminary scope of work promised or based on the reality
of what you anticipated getting out of it, but actually appreciating what was given.
You did that with Facebook Ads course just now on the call.
You said, that was interesting.
You said, well, I may not be seeing the results.
Use that.
I was like, oh, she's speaking to-
I just started.
Well, and I think you're speaking in general to people who want to hear, who need to hear
that.
But in reality, I think the more advanced EQs and IQs out there are going to think and
say, well, I hope you appreciate that you've gotten way beyond your results, it sounds
like because of the foundation that you have, the connections that you have.
It's beyond the package.
And I know you know that.
So because otherwise you would be saying right now, well, they promised me in 72 hours, I
would have $15,000 recurring revenue and I don't.
So we hear that a lot.
I'm in the market.
It makes me sad because I'm like, well, I'm sorry they promised that to you, but I'm also
sorry that you as an adult are blaming them for you making a decision that you could have
done more research on probably and found out how to go about this the right way.
When are we going to take responsibility as business owners for all of our actions as
the visionary?
That's on us.
So you're likely to have some amazing results come out of that too.
But I think if people follow your advice and realize Bruce Lee quote, what a great quote.
I didn't know he was the one that said that.
So pick up the value is what I understood.
Leave out the rest and use that value with your own intuition, your own capabilities
to build your virtuous kingdom.
Yeah.
Love that.
Awesome.
Well, you did it.
So that was awesome.
Thank you for all the wisdom you've shared today.
We are running low on time.
So if people want to reconnect with you, Haley, what's the best way to reach out to you and
how should they go about that?
Yeah.
Well, thank you again for having me Jackson.
This was fun.
Some good questions here for sure.
I am on Instagram at Haley underscore row.
I have a free client attraction class that goes deeper into those four basics of client
attraction.
We talked about how you can use them in your business at Haley row.com slash client hyphen
attraction.
I have the marketing hub Facebook group, the health coach nation podcast for coaches who
want to grow their business.
And I would say those are the top places.
Absolutely.
And I highly recommend that go listen to Haley on a really regular basis, get a chance to
understand her virtues, her values, what she stands for.
Let's not let's let's work hard together.
All of us on not cutting corners as we build these relationships, getting to know what
people stand for.
It usually leads to some seriously great results on the back end.
So Haley, thanks for giving us all the value that you did today.
And thanks for helping all of us as vision pros.
Thank you.
Thank you for being here today.
I'm really happy that you tuned into vision pros live.
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward.
This is going to get more and more fun.
We'll have more and more engagement as well.
I want to invite people to participate in the show and thank you for giving us your