All right, so we got Pete Saina coming on today.
This is going to be awesome.
He works with digital surgeons.
There's quite a few cool things.
I just got the phone with him.
He's jumping in right now.
We're going to be going over who he is, what he does.
We'll look at the thrill that he has, but ultimately the man is amazing at business
and business growth and creativity.
And there's so much depth to him that I'm really excited to dive into his vision and
what he provides for entrepreneurs.
So real quick, I'm going to share my screen a little bit too, just so you can get an idea
of what he does and why I'm so excited about having him on board.
Let's go over here to one of his companies, digitalsurgeons.com.
They're very creative.
They've got makers, marketers, entrepreneurs, a whole team of amazing people.
They're in this center called the district.
I'm not super familiar with it, but they also had something to do with the development of
it.
And you can just tell by the quality of the work, the amount of effort and passion that
they put into their projects in addition to how creative they are.
And Pete, he's been a founder, CEO, and chief creative officer for quite some time.
As you can see here, they launched their consultancy agency with just $5,000.
And today it's thriving at eight figure.
And they've got more than 50 people that work for their company.
They've done projects for Lady Gaga, United Technologies, US Open, and Pete's also helped.
Numerous companies from early fundraising to IPO collectively raising more than a hundred
million dollars of various client partners over the years.
Let's see if I've got Pete backstage now.
I do.
Awesome.
So with that said, we're going to dive into the intro and we'll get rolling.
All right.
Welcome in to Vision Pros Live with Jackson Calame.
I'm your show host.
We will be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs and guest leaders who are building
fantastic visions out there.
Welcome to Vision Pros Live, I'm your host, Jackson Calame, founder and CEO of First Class
Business.
I'm excited to have Pete Saina on board.
If you heard the pre-intro as well, you already know just how awesome he is.
Now I also want to make sure to use his scissor rule for this introduction.
Before we go into the scissor rule though, I do want to give a quick shout out to Cold
Click and what they do for us in terms of LinkedIn automation.
It's been super helpful to have Art's help on that process.
He helps make sure that we abide by the rules of the algorithms.
We don't get shut down as we connect to amazing people at scale rather than having to reach
out one at a time.
Tapmental.io as well.
I'd like to give a shout out to Dave Goodall.
He's become a good friend of mine.
Fantastic business owner as well.
If you're looking for help in the blue collar space, meaning you've got a construction company
or you know somebody who's got a general contracting company and they need some help with growth,
then definitely reach out to Dave.
Check out his case studies and what he's done in the market and then consider bringing him
in.
He's going to help entrepreneurs and their sealable executives really crack the code
of their psychology in order to also better implement systems in the first place.
It's amazing how much our mind trash, how much our mindset limitations and lack of centered
beliefs end up interrupting our ability to create systems of success.
I've been very impressed with Dave and what he's up to.
Check out tapmental.io and of course the Water Project.
If you're in a position where you can help others, please do.
Whether that's one dollar given a thousand, ten thousand or just creating awareness and
telling other people about it.
I love that the Water Project provides clean drinking water to people who don't have access
to that.
There's a lot of struggling that goes on in the world.
We're very blessed to live in first world countries or to at least be able to access
a podcast like this.
If we can, why not take some time to give back to those who don't have the upper hand
and make a generational change where these children and parents or people have to take
time from their day to go look for water that's not clean, that affects their lives.
Compare that to the borehole wells that they get, the sand dams.
I love that the Water Project shows you exactly what's happening and what communities you're
contributing to.
If you have another project you'd like to see us contribute to, don't hesitate to drop
that in the comments as well, we'll evaluate it.
We might even bring that cause on the show as well and talk about it.
Let's go into Pete's intro video and then I'll bring him on stage and we'll go from
there.
I believe that creativity and curiosity are fundamentally broken.
I think they're broken in the world, but more importantly, I think they're broken in business.
How do we growth hack our brand into success?
In order for us to engineer best in class, we have to first look at best in class.
We have to deconstruct best in class, define a stake in the ground as to where we're going
as a business.
Once we've gotten there, then we evolve or we shift or we iterate on that mission.
We're always thinking about that zero day.
When are we going to run out of cash?
When are we going to run out of things?
We have to get to the next level.
We have to innovate faster.
We have to fail faster.
Fast, fast, fast.
Think bigger than your next big milestone that your VC wants to see.
Think bigger than your quarterly sales earnings presentation that you have to meet.
The one currency that we're all battling right now is attention and time.
If you can get there faster, if you can personalize my experience.
Lots and lots of people over the past 36 years have told me no, have told me not possible,
have told me you can't.
I just launched a 20 plus million dollar campus.
But you know what's worse than somebody telling you you can't do it?
You telling yourself you can't do it.
I want to be a force for positive change in people's lives.
Pete, it's an honor to have you on the show, man.
Welcome to Vision Pros Live.
It's great to be here.
Good to see you again.
Absolutely my friend.
Let's quantify for the audience now.
I've definitely hit entrepreneurs and said, hey, you guys got to be listening to this.
But from your perspective, who should be listening today?
Why else should they be listening to you?
And I'll help us to find what they're going to get out of today's show as well.
But feel free to redirect me a little bit.
Yeah, for sure.
So I would say anybody that wants to level up in life and has to work, whether it's building
a business or having a job, I'd imagine that's probably the lion's share of people on the
planet.
Hopefully, that fits into that bucket.
It's a big bucket.
It can benefit from this conversation.
Just the wisdom that you share all the time, I know that people are going to get inspired
by and hopefully I can just add a couple of tidbits there.
As for why they should listen to me, first and foremost, everything I'm going to share
with you are things that I do myself.
This is not me reading off some self-help book and prescribing advice that I've never
done.
This is stuff that I've tried and failed at, I've tried and succeeded at, and you're going
to get 100% real, 100% raw from me in terms of what we're going to talk about today.
I believe, like I said in the video, creativity and curiosity are broken.
And I think that when we live more creative and curious lives, we can be more fulfilled.
We can be more happy.
We can be more effective, most importantly.
So that's ultimately, I think, why folks might want to listen to me or us on this conversation.
And I'm just excited to be here.
Awesome man.
And I agree.
I know it's funny.
I look at you and I see a Pat Flynn, I see a Gary Vaynerchuk.
I think, man, and I want to quantify this for the audience because I don't come across
people with your accolades super often.
And when I do, it's like, okay, I got to seize this opportunity, opt into what I can and
garner as much information.
But how does it affect you for me to compare you to names that are known, that have millions
and millions and millions of followers?
What does that do for you?
A couple of things.
One, I'm humbled and grateful.
I've met Gary a couple of times over the years and he's a really, really brilliant guy.
And you see what you get and you get what you see with Gary and to be compared to someone
at that level is definitely inspiring, to say the least.
I would also say it makes me wish I started sooner because when you look at the Garys
out there, there's so many talented people out there.
Some of the most talented people I've ever met and I've ever worked with, you've never
heard of.
I've never heard of.
I think that that to me is one of the reasons why I'm so excited to talk to you today about
storytelling and branding and all these things, because I got started late.
I was the consigniary behind a lot of CEOs and C-suite leaders for the past 20 years.
And now I'm stepping into the light and I'm not doing it as an introvert.
It's definitely a little bit overwhelming to do at times, but I do it because much like
you're doing, Jackson, it's all about really bringing to light the things that we think
and know so that hopefully we can inspire somebody else.
And my hope is that when I was that 19-year-old kid starting my first business and I didn't
know my butt from my elbow, I wish there was someone in my ear that was providing that
advice that was someone that I could know and trust and get advice from or mentorship
from.
So I'm trying to be the thing I needed 20 something years ago, 30 something years ago,
whatever time it was.
And that's what I'm here to do.
Absolutely well said, man.
Thanks for handling the awkward question.
Yeah, no worries.
I was like, you handled it well.
I was like, man, there's a question I really want to dig out of this and we nailed it.
And your responses is super helpful for me.
Tell me what's your vision for those that you serve?
What do you hope they accomplish?
So for me, it's I hope people can get to a clear understanding of what their vision is
for themselves and their life or work, whether that's their life's work or just their life
in general.
I hope that I can help them articulate it, get clear with themselves and others about
it, and then ultimately build a plan or a roadmap to take the steps and actions to get
there.
So that's my hope.
And whether I'm building a brand that's 10 or 10,000 people or whether I'm just talking
to somebody that I met at a coffee shop, I try to deliver the same amount of passion,
intensity and energy to everything that I bring to the table.
And it's challenging at times.
I'm not going to lie to you, especially as an introvert, I recharge by being about myself.
So being on the camera, having all the bright lights going is definitely a lot at times.
I like that.
I appreciate it too.
You know, it's funny, I mentioned Dave from Tap Mental a little bit ago and he inspired
me.
My last call that I had with him, he came in with that intense energy of passion.
And it's amazing how the intentionality of showing up as your best self completely changes
the experience of the moment that you have at hand.
So like you said, whether it's Starbucks or whether that's your next sales meeting, it
doesn't matter.
If you can train yourself to be intentional, the outcome of any given experience is going
to be more on point.
I want to share a quick, super quick story with you that I think the audience would love.
So I had the pleasure of having a guy on my podcast who built a billion dollar company,
exited a billion dollar company.
And one of the things he said to me, this is probably about a year ago at this point,
but when I heard it, it really moved me.
And he said, you know, I asked him the question, I said, how do you bring the A game all the
time?
I'm like, you're always this force.
And he said, I would get in the elevator.
This is pre pandemic.
He said, I would get in the elevator of my company.
You know, we had 700 and something employees that built it for my dorm room is what he
was describing.
And he said, that might be the only time that person gets to meet me.
That might be the only time that that person gets to experience me.
I have a responsibility to make sure that I'm showing up as my full self there in that
moment because I might've been having a bad day.
I stubbed my toe in the way in or I forgot how he said it exactly.
He said, but that person might interpret there's something wrong with the company or there's
something a much bigger problem.
If I showed up and didn't bring that, that energy in that self.
And I got to tell you, Jackson, ever since I had that conversation with him on the podcast
and I've stayed in touch with him since I was like, you know what?
This is like my reminder to square my shoulders back, whether I'm in the airport and exhausted
or whatever it is, got to bring that a game because you only get one chance to make a
first impression.
And if that first impression of you is not the right impression, you may not get a second
chance.
So for me, that that's definitely been a reminder to just do my best every time.
So I don't know if that works for you, the audience, but that's a real story that hit
me.
Oh, no, I love that.
I love it.
And it's, it's something we can all learn from.
And it's something that I'm going to take away right away and apply cause it's, it's
been kind of hitting me in the face over the last couple of weeks where I've been like,
ah, man, I can do this.
Cause I've had bronchitis for about two months now.
Oh, man.
So you sound great.
And that's, it's the best sickness to have when you're a podcaster, you know, like messing
with your throat, messing, but like you said, like being able to show up and that's the
mantle that we accept as leaders who want to build great companies or great influence
in the world is, is learning to again.
And it's, that would, that would be awful.
What if you did stub your toe, you know, like, and you saw somebody, a new employee and you're
screaming and cussing, you know, like about your toe.
And now their impression is like, Oh, he does that guy, he doesn't want me working here.
Um, you know, like you're, you are under the pressure of, of influence at all times by
what we've chosen to do.
Um, so thank you for reminding us of that.
And uh, we'll all run with it the best we can.
What's your vision, um, for your life, Pete, what do you, what do you hope to accomplish
over the next five, 15, 30 years?
You feel free to find out how you want.
Yeah, no, that's, that's a big question.
And hopefully the answer is as big as the question.
Um, I certainly will strive for that.
So for me, I've set this arbitrary marker on myself where I want to impact a million
people's lives with creativity and curiosity.
So my goal is like, while I'm here, I want to make a million people live creative and
curious lives.
And when I get to a million people and I can measure that somehow, and there's different
guys, I'm sure I can measure that from email lists to people reaching out to me to conversations
I have, whatever it is.
When I get to a million, hopefully if I'm blessed enough to live around and make that
impact that I'm going to add a zero to it and add a zero to it.
I'm just going to keep going and going.
So I believe I tweeted this actually this morning, ironically enough, or, or I think
the other day, I believe that our legacy is not about the things that we do, but the things
that we enable and empower other people to do.
And those are the things that get remembered because at the end of the day, we're here
for a short time and you know, when we're dead and gone, you know, we like to think
in our heads that people are going to remember us kind of past that funeral past that day.
But the true reality is, you know, there's way more prolific minds than me and you that
have been on this planet that have done things that people have long forgotten about.
So my hope is that when I'm dead and gone, that my family, my family's family and that
the other people that I've been able to impact over my life and work can make a positive
difference.
And that's my ultimate vision for myself.
Obviously, a big part of that, just to get more specific is, I definitely want to have
a life of creativity and fulfillment, being able to make a positive impact, I want to
leave the world in a better place than I found it, which might be a big ask.
And I think that, you know, the thing I love about vision is that you can almost fantasize
a little bit, right?
The nice thing about vision is that you can hallucinate a little bit before you make that
plan happen and then go and execute that plan.
So yeah, that's my vision for myself.
My vision for the different companies that I start, own or invest in is much more concrete,
much more specific.
But in terms of my vision for myself, those are some of the things that I'm stepping out
and focusing on right now.
That makes sense.
I actually want to double down a little bit on that.
So when it comes to people that you've impacted and influenced that have gone on to do cool
things that you're excited about, you know, things that you're excited for them, you know,
and what they've accomplished, I can see that in you, Pete.
What's one that comes to mind that you're willing to talk about their story and, you
know, what part of your influence might have been an impact on that, but what have they
accomplished since?
What have they gone on to do?
Yeah, no, that's a great question.
I mean, there's a couple of folks that come to mind right away.
I don't know how they would necessarily feel about me telling their stories.
So maybe just to not out them without their consent, maybe I'll just kind of share a little
bit about who they were, how I think I impacted them, what they're doing now.
That's fair.
I appreciate that.
And then if folks want to learn more about that person, they can hit me up offline and
I'll get that person's okay or whoever else we talk about and I'll hopefully connect them
with consent.
So one young woman comes to mind where she was an intern at one of my first companies
and she's a strategy intern and we got to put her on it.
So she was probably just coming out of college or finishing up college.
We got to put her on a couple of key accounts at the agency.
My first agency was called Digital Surgeons.
It was a brand experience firm and we got to put her on a couple of different accounts
and she went on to now she's running strategy for Mercedes and a couple of big brands.
So that's one example.
Another example that's really fun for me is I had a young man that one of his father,
so when he was born, his father went to jail.
He didn't grow up with a father.
His mother had a drug problem and he never thought he was going to be able to go to school,
kind of start a business, that sort of thing.
Now he is just about finished with the university program that he got into.
He's studying computer science and he recently got a really well paid internship working
with a very popular software company that you probably heard of.
That's just another example.
Again, two completely different people from completely different sides of the tracks,
but I'd like to think that what I was able to do is create an environment of creativity
and curiosity for them.
They did the work.
They're the ones that deserve all the credit.
What I like to think that my sort of role in that journey was, was being the guide,
right?
They're the heroes, right?
I'm just the guide in that journey.
I think as someone who does brand strategy for a living, I think the best thing we can
do is be that guide.
Because at the end of the day, it's the person doing the work, it's the customer, that's
the hero.
We're just the guides.
I think that you mentioned you gave me a really positive compliment at the beginning when
you said, I remind you of Gary.
One of the things I love about Gary-
You cuss less.
You cuss less, but yes.
Well, I mean, I don't know who our audience is, right?
I've been known to drop a couple of bombs, but what I was going to say is he talks a
lot about humility and empathy and compassion.
Not a lot of people know that unless they get to know him or really kind of dig deeper
into his content, because some of the stuff he can put out there is pretty polarizing.
I just want to sort of underscore and echo, since you put his name in my head, in the
picture of him in my head, I think it's that empathy.
I think it's that compassion that is super important to be able to set the table.
Because when we get high off our own supply, when we sort of think how great we are, and
look, I've been there, right?
When I was the young kind of punk kind of on the come up when I was 22 years old running
a multi-million dollar company, I thought I was cool.
I thought I was better than everybody, and I think that it was that kind of like ego
back then that I think got me in a lot of trouble.
And at the end of the day, it made me feel a whole lot less fulfilled.
So now I know my place in the universe, and I know that my place is the guy, not the hero.
And I think that that's allowed me to hold more space for people.
It's allowed me to be a better listener.
Obviously, we're on a podcast right now, so I'm talking with you.
But if we were in a casual situation, I would probably be doing a lot more listening, a
lot more asking questions, and really hearing what you're saying versus just kind of like
blurting out a bunch of words.
So yeah, no, I just wanted to share that because that's been a big part of my journey over
the past, I'd say, probably 10 years is probably the term time I put on it.
But yeah, those are just two stories.
Is that kind of what you're looking for, Jackson?
Huge, my friend.
Those are great.
And to double down on some of what you talked about.
So I'm glad that you didn't cross the boundaries of some people confuse humility with kind
of negligence or like downplaying realities.
And you didn't do that.
I'm grateful because we as entrepreneurs, we are facilitators of environments.
Amen.
Right.
So you're the guide and you construct an environment.
I love that Taylor Welch, he taught this concept.
I always had to give him credit for it, which was environment to him is the number one driver
for success.
You can take a weak person and put them in a strong environment and they will outperform
a strong person who's in a weak environment.
Think of a strong person in a hurricane, you know, trying to run a race versus somebody
who's in fantastic weather that might be in a wheelchair.
And so your environment is a big portion of what's going to drive your success as a listener.
And Pete, what I hear, what I know you represent is a person who creates an environment where
these individuals could come and incubate their own success and probably like minded
peers, probably other mentors and leaders involved in the process, tools that they can
utilize.
And that, you know, that I wish more entrepreneurs, I hope more entrepreneurs gravitate towards
realizing that, that we've got to provide great environments for those who work with
us.
I also, one thing I want to say though, and I appreciate you saying that, I'm really humbled
by the kind words.
I really try my best to live that life and I hope that if you asked others, they would
say that.
What I learned the hard way is that you can't force it on people, right?
So, you know, whether it's Angela Duckworth talking about grit or resilience or all these
more en vogue terms over the past couple of years that have kind of come across the best
seller lists on Amazon or New York Times.
What I think is pretty interesting is if someone's not ready to be in a space of creativity and
curiosity, you can't force it on them.
So what, you know, I recently did an exercise.
I'm in the process right now of transforming another one of the companies that I'm a part
of.
We've got a great leadership team in place running the company.
I'm sort of more of a chairman at this point, but I was sort of digging into kind of like
the greatest hits, you know, the high points over the past 15, 16 years, the low points.
And I was looking for signal in that noise.
And one of the things I realized was the people that have had the most positive experiences
with the organization that are no longer there versus the people that are still there versus,
you know, folks and whatnot.
What I thought was an interesting common denominator that showed up was the willingness and the
desire to align to those core values.
One of our core values being around curiosity, one of them being around creativity, you can't
force it on people.
And I learned that the hard way thinking like, I'm going to give all these, I'm going to
give all this motivation to people.
You can't give motivation to people, right?
Or I'm going to give all these tools and techniques to people.
But if they don't ultimately want that and they're not welcoming it into their lives,
you know, I would say the biggest environment that we have to set for ourselves is the one
between our two ears, which is our mindset, right?
It's that brain.
And if we don't, if we don't set that mindset for ourselves, no matter what situation we're
in, how good, how bad it is, I don't think it's going to be able to turn around.
So what I notice now is, and we screen for this in our kind of HR processes when we're
hiring is really look, does that person have that tenacity or resilience?
Do they want to grow very fast?
Right?
If you don't want to sort of have an environment that's a little bit chaotic, that's a little
bit high energy, high intensity, we're definitely not the right fit for you.
And I say we're meaning the three or four different companies that are actively hiring
right now that I have some stake in.
So I think it's really important that you align on mission and vision and values.
It sounds squishy, but I think when you get it right, it, you know, it's like a rocket
ship when you get it wrong.
It's like a poison pill.
And that's just what I would say to the group here is like, I learned that one the hard
way and all the kind of words you're saying about me.
There's a lot of people back in the day that weren't saying such kind of words about me.
Right.
We, what we learn as we go, you know, we, we got to grow up and mature.
We get the opportunity to, to choose to do that or not to do that.
And so you're, you're our preaching to the choir as vision pros.
Anybody who's following this podcast realizes, I mean, it's, it's always vision, culture,
leadership.
And all those are our three big pillars.
I love that you keyed on, on the hero aspect.
You talked about being the guide versus the hero because the logo for first-class business
is in fact, the icon is a hero.
And what I think most people don't realize it's a subconscious as any logo, the hero
is the business owner.
That is our hero.
The hero is the business owner that we're serving.
And in my case, therefore for first-class business, it's my job to step up as the hero.
But when it comes to certain clients is that what we're servicing, where the Alfred, where
the Butler behind the scenes helping Batman do what he needs to do and making sure he
doesn't die in the process of saving the world.
That's kind of what we do is just serve and guide.
You know, but let's, let's keep going with the next, we're going to go into a little
bit of a darker theme.
Thank you to the dark night.
So what is your worst business experience ever?
Easy answer.
I blindly trusted an executive that I brought in, um, in a financial capacity and it, it
wreaked havoc on one of my businesses.
And it was a very, very difficult process to discover that and turn it around.
Um, and it's shameful, right?
You know, you ask yourself like, how did this happen to me?
Like, you know, it's, it would kind of be like what happens if somebody breaks into
your house.
Um, and you're like, well, you know what?
Like, how could this have happened?
I live in a good neighborhood.
We had, we have a good security system and there's locks on my door.
How could this happen?
That was the first thought that I had in my head.
Looking back now, I'm grateful for the lesson because I think that lessons are what define
us and our true characters to find that not at our highest moment, but at our lowest moment.
So speaking of darkness, speaking of being down, that I would say is probably one of
the worst business experiences, um, because it just, the violating feeling it had, right?
And how that felt, um, a close second to that is when during COVID, um, we were met with
some financial challenges and for the first time ever in almost 15 years, we had to lay
some people off.
And that was a gut and heart wrenching moment because despite my best effort and me and
my leadership team's best effort, you know, we all took gigantic pay cuts.
We all took, you know, my co-founder and I were actually foregoing a salary for a period
of time, like did all the things that we possibly could have, but that was truly a black swan
event that we just didn't see coming.
Um, and that was gut wrenching because, you know, I had to say, say goodbye to some really
good people.
And I think in that moment, I feel bad for how that impacted others and what could I
have done differently to be more prepared so that I didn't have to have that happen
to others.
And then also just the ripple impact that that has on the people who are left behind
that gets us stay.
Um, and I think I learned a lot as a leader during that moment and, and that was tough.
So I'd say that was the second worst.
They're definitely a kind of close first and close second.
One's more of, you know, both of them were really surprising.
Um, and, uh, but one of them you can plan for a lot better than the other.
Absolutely.
Well, and I love that you see it as a learning opportunity.
Um, you know, it's, it's amazing how when you're in those moments, um, you, you get
to it's, it's miraculous almost to feel how much pain the heart can endure.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And you feel it, right?
It's like, there's a great book out there.
I remember when I was getting some, some therapy, not for that, but for just, you know, I think
everybody should have therapy like in the whole, the whole separate conversation.
But I remember there's a great book that I learned about called the body keeps score.
Um, which is just such a beautiful truth, which is, you know, we all know what it feels
like when they say something like gut wrenching, right?
Well, it's like, well, where, where do you feel that in your body?
Right.
Or when you get angry, you know, what does that feel like?
I feel hot, I feel red, right?
Like, so the body keeps score.
And I think that that's a whole separate conversation that I'd love to share with you in the audience,
maybe another time, but, but yeah, I know that's, um, that's just a thought that comes
to mind.
Hey man, happy to have you back tomorrow.
Um, you know, so we happy to uncover as many truths as we can.
Um, so you, you mentioned that, that, uh, executive and the financial reality.
Um, I think that's a very common trend amongst entrepreneurs and maybe this podcast serves
as a little bit of therapy, a little therapeutic for those who, um, you know, come in and are
like, man, okay, I'm not the only one.
Um, you know, that can be helpful.
I've been there when, when, uh, I was delegating so irresponsibly with my first venture.
Um, I had, uh, injected my wife at time, um, into the business in many ways.
She was doing all the responsible things for the business, uh, taxes, insurance, finances,
you know, and, and I cakewalked it for a while.
Uh, that's not how you run a business.
Um, and so I ended up transferring that over to a really good friend, um, who came in and
won more responsibility, but I couldn't afford it after six months.
So now I ended up with my finances in the hands of three different accountants and it
was a mess.
I mean, it was, I was like, Oh my gosh, I was so irresponsible with this process and,
and how to, how to, how to go about bringing something in the right way.
And now I've got everything scattered in three different people's accesses.
One that had a harder time, uh, feeling motivated to give me what I needed after our divorce.
Right.
Um, so it was, it was a very painful, um, reality check of, Oh man, let's, let's learn
to be better delegators, um, with what we do.
So let's, let's go into that better delegation side of things.
What's your best experience in business look like?
It's a great question.
Um, a couple come to mind.
One of the, the ones that I would say my teams heard me talk about, but it's, it's just really
a proud moment was we got, we won an account that we had no business winning.
We were, we were a tiny little shop at the time we had, you know, outside of myself and
my co-founder, we were a very junior team at the time.
And we won Lady Gaga as a client and we had a bra, I was good.
Yeah.
No, listen, I could sing all those songs backwards.
Um, I got to chill every time I hear come on the radio, you know, um, let's hear her
voice.
And, um, it was a proud moment for me, not because it was a big celebrity, not because
we got to this big crazy event, not because we won pretty much the internet Oscars, but
it's something called the Webbies at the time.
Um, what was the most great about that experience is what I call the eyes light up moment.
And I want to just encourage you and the audience to like, look for the eyes light up moments
that happen in business because when they happen, just take a beat, take a pause.
You know, we're all forward obsessed.
I say we're all moving to the next thing, but take a beat when that eyes light up moment
happened.
So I got to take the team that worked on this project to the event.
I got to take the team that worked on this project to the award show and the eyes light
up moment, just the, the, the pride in these people to get to be at this, you know, fancy
thing.
And to be honest, I had never been to something at that scale before either.
Um, and I brought my team, you know, I didn't bring my then, my then girlfriend, my now
wife, I didn't bring her.
Um, my co-founder didn't bring his then girlfriend, now wife.
We brought our team, a couple of members of our team, had a limited number of people and
it was a proud moment.
And for me, that was the moment where I realized it was no longer about how good I was at designing
or how good I was at coding, which is what got me into the game and to begin with.
That's where I realized what it was like to lead.
That's what I realized what it was like to see the impact that you can make on other
people.
And I would say that that was definitely one of the best moments of my career because a
couple of things happened, right?
The underdog one against the big challenge, right?
It's like, like some of the greatest movies that we all love, right?
The seemingly impossible task, the impossible deadline that we didn't even know was possible,
we pulled off.
Um, and ultimately it turned into, you know, a pretty category defining thing that was
written about in books.
It was covered for many years after and, and it created millions and millions of dollars
of business, you know, for year after year as a result of that work.
So it's just a powerful thing to understand that like when your calling comes, like answer
the bell, right?
When the phone rings, because magic can happen from that.
So I'd say that was the spark and the experience for me.
Sounds like you get to add a zero to your 1 million number already in that case.
So that's fun.
And by the way, for anybody listening, one of the best, one of the best songs to ask
dueling pianos to play is bad romance by Lady Gaga.
It's one of my favorites to see them play.
They go nuts with it.
So that, that's an awesome story.
Thanks for sharing that.
And that, that tier and level two, I was talking to Scott Ritzheimer, I think his last name,
his last name, sorry, I got to get it down, but Scott wrote in his book about, um, of
entrepreneurship about a coach who for the last play of the game decides to run on the
field and catch the ball and everybody gets mad, of course, and there's flags and like,
you know, you've never seen a coach do that, but in entrepreneurship, we do that all the
time.
Um, whenever we dive into the play when we're not supposed to, but when you, when you become
a leader, um, you know, in, and that's your new trajectory and what you're now supposed
to be doing.
Um, it can be hard not to go back into the game and, and fix everything and, and control.
So, um, as we go into powerful lessons, I don't want to pigeonhole you on that, but
I do want to explore that a little bit before we dive into the powerful lesson you want
to share for visionaries to learn from your experience.
So first things first, um, how did you navigate the process of making that shift from a player
to coach?
And do you still go back and forth at times, um, in different areas?
Yeah, it's, it's a great question.
And honestly, I would say the answer I'm going to give you is, is my truth, but I don't think
it's the best answer for your question.
The I can give you the best answer for the question, but it's not one that I follow all
the time.
Right?
So what I'm able to, to sort of follow is I think in a company that is, you know, call
it zero to $10 million just for a round number, zero to $10 million companies, everybody is
a player coach, which means you've got to step, you know, sometimes you got to step
onto the field.
You got to catch the, you got to make the play, you got to do the thing.
And that's just the nature of, you know, law of small numbers, right?
Your team might not be of a certain size.
You know, if you've got, you know, there's times where we had three or four people out
on maternity paternity leave at the same exact time, right?
And times like that, when you're a small team, um, you gotta do what it takes to win.
Right?
So I think that's the thing.
Um, nowadays, a lot of the companies that I coach and support, um, outside of my, my,
the core businesses that I started earlier, but now when I'm coming in as an advisor or
as a consultant or as a strategist, um, they have much larger teams, they have much larger
market caps.
And some of these are publicly traded companies that I'm working with.
And it's really bad when the coach is stepping on the field.
So you know, after a certain size, um, you really have to force yourself to not focus
on how, but focus on who.
So you know, one of the coaches I learned a lot from is a guy named by the name of Danny
Sullivan.
He's an OG coach, strategic coaches is how he, you know, what he was referred to as.
And for the longest time, I used to think about, because remember my background is in
design and engineering.
So I was the guy making the magic happen.
Right?
Um, I started a creative creative company because I was a creative.
Um, I think the inflection point for me is realizing that I actually love being a creative.
So it's not about micromanaging or holding onto something too tightly.
It's not about knowing when to let go.
It's about understanding that your role or your job has changed and you have to be okay
with that.
You have to understand like what piece are you on the chessboard?
Right?
I was just having this discussion yesterday with somebody, another entrepreneur, and he
was saying like a lot of poems think they're Kings, a lot of Kings think they're rooks
and we were going around the chessboard because we're both chess nerds.
And it wasn't about one being better than the other.
It was about understanding that it's a supporting cast.
Right?
So the example that I give a lot is going from playing first chair in the orchestra
to being the conductor of the symphony.
And that was a hard contrast for me.
It was a hard pivot.
Um, some would say I haven't even fully mastered it yet.
But what I would say is that's the big shift for practitioners for service type businesses
is you got to get out of the service and delivery fast because if you're working in your business
and you're not working on your business, you're not growing your business.
So that's the advice that I'd say was a hard pill for me to swallow because of my own passions.
I have a whole other kind of shtick I can go through with you and the group at another
time.
But basically it's this concept of a green zone, which basically comes out of a great
book called The Big Leap.
I believe it's by Gay Hendrix if my memory suits me.
But that book clearly articulates something called your zone of genius.
And just loosely defined, it's the things that you're really good at that give you energy
that you love.
But a lot of entrepreneurs end up playing in their zone of competence, right?
So the things that you're really good at, but you don't necessarily love.
And I think just finding where your zone of genius is and stepping into it's a really
important thing.
However, sometimes the zone of genius is the thing that creates the limitation or the limiting
factor for your business.
So now I'm focusing a lot of my energy on going from my zone of genius and my zone of
competence to what's going to be the thing that's going to give me the most leverage
for my holdings company.
What's going to give me the most leverage so that when my son grows up, I can be at
all the games, whatever he decides to play or music lessons or whatever it is that he
does.
Right now, I would say I definitely have a little bit of a bug for entrepreneurship,
meaning that it was my first baby and it's hard to step back from.
So I hope the answers, what you're looking at and also just to the audience, gives a
no bullshit answer, which is what the textbook tells you to do and what you ultimately end
up doing aren't always the same thing.
And that's okay.
But you just got to lean into that and embrace it because that's what happens.
Wow.
It's obvious that you're always going to give a lot to unpack, which is awesome.
This is a conversation I'm going to be meditating on a lot probably over the course of the week
and beyond.
But how old is your son, first off?
Little over two.
Okay, awesome.
My advice back, my invitation back is as you position yourself and you look for those opportunities,
no matter what obstacle comes your way, just do it.
You know, Nike, just make the time.
It'll be worth it in every bit.
I'm a dad of four and I'm grateful.
God bless you.
Yeah, thank you.
He has and he does and they help me survive.
My kiddos teach me everything.
But having that 12 year old, I was a stay at home dad from the beginning.
And that has been one of the greatest blessings for my life.
And I hope more people with the new rich, thanks to the four hour work week and the
new mindset and paradigms on that, there's great opportunities to be involved from the
beginning and you just don't get those experiences back.
So enjoy that, Pete.
No, I love that.
I appreciate you sharing that.
And I think one of the things that I love about what you just said, I just said it too,
is like stepping into like, what does it really mean to be a man?
Is a topic that a lot of people kind of will shun away from when you talk about being a
man or masculinity or that sort of thing.
And I think it's about being present, loving, kindness.
When I grew up and I was a kid, my dad worked all the time.
My dad was never around.
And it wasn't because he didn't want to be, it was because he had to be.
He was putting food on the table.
He was a blue collar guy working two jobs to make ends meet.
So I'm blessed that I've been able to build a number of businesses that we have the financial
fortitude to be able to do the things that I need to do.
Today I'm in my home office as opposed to my work office where we chatted last time.
And it's because I'm home and we're going out for Halloween in a little bit.
So I think that those are the things that really matter.
And I want to put that out there because I think it's when I was younger, the dads weren't
around a lot.
It was always like the mom, the matriarchy and the family, that sort of thing.
So I love that you're modeling that for you and your audience.
I'm trying to model it for me and mine because I just think that, you know, like some, some
the other day someone said to me like, Oh, like you're babysitting your kid.
And I'm like, I'm not babysitting my kid.
I'm parenting my kid.
Like I'm around my kid.
Like I'm like, it's a hard, it's a hard reality for people to get into.
I was so offended.
I got, I got kind of like red hot about it.
I was like babysitting.
I'm like, this is the favorite thing I get to do is hang out with my kid, man.
Like there's no time machine, right?
It's like, you know, so yeah.
And I appreciate you, you striking that chord and putting that out there for the audience.
Yeah, absolutely.
My favorite example of that, of being a great dad is Jake Larson of video power.com.
And I look up to him tremendously.
The cool thing is he doesn't try it just does it.
You know, and I learned a lot from him.
I used to try so hard to influence.
And like you said, you can't force it, you know, and the more you try, the more you almost
repel it rather than, you know what, if I just live and be, you know, what I'm, what
I'm meant to be and my best self, then the influence of that has an impact that it's
almost, it's almost laughable.
You know how that works out.
I want to, I want to check him out.
So definitely flip me a link for that.
Cause I just didn't want to be typing while you're talking here, but you know, it's funny
how when amateurs are putting in lots of effort, you see it when pros are putting in and they
make it look effortless.
I would say I'm still in the journey of, you know, going from amateur to pro when it comes
to that.
So that's an area that's still trying to be in the flow, trying to be present, but, you
know, it can be interesting when shit hits the fan pun intended.
And yeah, man.
Yep.
Well, back to a couple of great people.
You mentioned the empathy that the Gary Banner, Chuck has, you know, and again, he's servicing
an audience of people in, you know, he mainly serves people from where he comes from the
Bronx, the hood, whatever you want to call it.
And he has a different dialect that he uses to relate to people, you know, with a lot
of cursing and words that maybe other people are uncomfortable with, but it connects him,
you know, to that audience in a way that that's very authentic.
And I mentioned him and I'm going to circle to Bill Russell as well, because you said
something so profound and dynamic.
I hope people catch it.
And that's that at different levels of the game, at different levels of leadership, you're
sometimes still required or you still have the opportunity or it's still important.
However you want to define that to be the player coach, to be in both Bill Russell,
you know, the most winning of all champions.
If you haven't seen his documentary or you don't know his story, he was both the coach
of his NBA team as well as the player in the team because the NBA was small back then.
It was it was a very small association that was that didn't have the payments that you
have today.
And I grew up in San Antonio with Tim, who is very much a player coach as well.
You know, even though the organization was massive at that time.
So thanks for shedding the light on that.
I think it helps when when we as entrepreneurs realize that, OK, we don't we don't have
to be boxed into one person's paradigm or one person's best effort to teach us something
that could be dynamically helpful for where we're at.
But we got to strive to be the visionary, to dive into our own intuition, our own heart
and mind and see what is relevant for us right now in this moment.
This project, P, you did an excellent job of facilitating a whole lot of wisdom on the
show today.
What's the best way for people to connect with you and get involved in your projects?
Yeah, so I'm.
That's a great question.
I'm Pete Senna on just about every social channel.
I'm still calling it Twitter, so you like to come for me.
But I'm Pete Senna on Twitter.
I'm Pete Senna on LinkedIn.
My personal website, which desperately needs an update, is Pete Senna dot com.
And then if you want to learn about some of the great work that my team is doing, which
is just really amazing, is go to we are DS dot com.
That is a digital surgeons website or digital surgeons dot com.
They both go to the same place and you can sort of check out all the great brands that
they're transforming over there that that I'm blessed to make noise and try to not get
in their way too much.
I think that they would they would agree that I'm staying off the field wherever possible.
But every once in a while I'll jump in and just for my own amusement, show someone that
I still have some skills on, not just the guy in the ivory tower.
I get that.
That's awesome, man.
Well, you heard him.
We'll drop those on the show notes and the landing page as well.
Pete, thanks so much for being on the show, man.
This is awesome.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you for being here today.
I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward.
This is going to get more and more fun.
We'll have more and more engagement as well.
For now, we'll have to come back and ride the