the experience more visual. And like I said, if you want to sketch while we're doing the
episode, you know, you can dynamically focus on presenting your vision while you sketch
it out. No pressure.
Let me see what I can muster up here. I always have paper close by for these types of moments.
Oh, you're awesome. You took the pressure and you ran with it.
We'll see. I cannot promise.
What are you most excited for people to get out of this?
Just to be like redefining drawing and doodling as like a way to help you think and learn,
right? Take back our dependable bit. So I'm excited about talking about creativity and
what does that look like for people because we have so much baggage around art and creativity
and all of that stuff. So I'm always like, love talking about what does that look like
for you, right?
I love that.
Take back ownership of that.
I believe in the power of the pen and I never thought about taking it back, but you're right.
The digital age has kind of like started to rob the awareness of that power. So wow. That's
interesting. So I named the episode and we are live by the way, but I named the episode
how much power can a sketch add to your revenues and your personal development because both
are going to receive huge value. I already know that. So that's going to be fun to talk
about as well as how it can lead to millions in revenues.
Oh my gosh. That'd be amazing.
That's right. Well, we're going to talk about Sir Ken Robinson and how it helped him do
that. So we'll have some fun with this.
Fun. Awesome. I love it.
Yeah, absolutely. Do you have any questions before we dive in?
Just do it. Just see what happens. Well, just, you know, things happen and I'm along for
the ride. So it's all good.
What's your favorite sketch ever?
That I've ever done?
Yeah.
Oh my gosh. Steve Wozniak when I was on stage with him was pretty wild.
All right. Welcome in to Vision Pros Live with Jackson Calame. I'm your show host. We'll
be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs and guest leaders who are building fantastic
visions out there.
Hey, what's up everybody? And welcome in to Vision Pros Live. I'm your show host, Jackson
Calame, founder and CEO of First Class Business. And I'm excited because today's kind of a
play day. I get Ashton from Minds Eye Creative on my show and she is a sketch artist and
she teaches people kind of like that channel that my kids watch and how to draw for YouTube.
She teaches you how to sketch your notes so that your notes are more comprehensive, so
that your notes are more powerful, so you can actually repurpose your notes as well.
And this is a super, super powerful subject because when you learn how to do this, you
can visually storytelling a way that not only amplifies how you learn, and I've seen this
myself as I've gotten better at taking notes, but also you can attract an audience with
your notes as well for those visionaries out there who are striving to share their visions
with the masses. So we'll be talking more about that in just a minute. I'll bring Ashton
on stage. Before we dive into that, I want to point out a couple of our sponsors, Cold
Click. Cold Click is the system that we use. It's actually the team that we use for our
LinkedIn automation. And I'm a big fan of Art Hoffman. He's become a good buddy of mine.
And it's not just about the system. It's one thing to get the automation done, but it's
another to have somebody who's checking for what algorithm updates are happening within
the technology itself so you don't get banned from LinkedIn. Now, some people would say
that, well, automation is evil, but we breathe automatically. And if you're using automation
to hurt people or to get a message out there, just spam people, that's one thing. But if
you're using it to connect with more people sincerely, then it can be a superpower that
helps you engage with the people that you can serve best. That's really what it's all
about. So we combine Cold Click with our methods of outreach. And our outreach methods are
actually really simple. To encourage you, stop putting case studies in people's faces.
They're tired of it. They don't want it. Instead, have an outreach to the right target
audience, people that will resonate with you, let your profile do the talking, and say something
much more along the lines of, hey, how are you? Which is what you would do if you walked
up to a stranger in real life and wanted to engage in a conversation. Keep it really simple
and then drive them towards free value without pressure, just to invite them to take a look
at something perhaps, or actually take interest in them. That's another really important factor.
It's better to be interested in people than interesting. So with that said, we're going
to move over to Tap Mental. And Tap Mental is run by Dave Goodall. Dave is a client of
first-class business, and I'm really impressed with his access to mind work. Now, some of
you may already know, most of you probably don't, but your mindset work is some of the
most important work you can do as an entrepreneur. I've worked with hundreds and hundreds of
entrepreneurs, and out of those that I've worked with, and the thousands I haven't worked
with, the one thing that's constantly holding us up is our own limiting beliefs. And until
we're able to tackle our limiting beliefs, until we're able to address our past traumas,
until we're able to really dive in deep with that with somebody that we can know, somebody
that we know, like, and of course, trust, it's very hard to move the needle forward
in our life and live with the type of purpose that most of us want to live with. So Dave
and I have done a few sessions ourselves in terms of what he does for entrepreneurs, but
also how he can unlock my brand. And I was so impressed with our sessions. I was like,
you know what? I want to honor Dave. I want to get him on as a sponsor on here because
I know the value of the resource for others. So without further ado, let's move over to
the Water Project. The Water Project is my favorite charity to support. There are lots
of charities that you can support right now. You know, and so feel free to drop in the
comments any charity that you would like to see us support. And I'm happy to take a look
at that. Sometimes driving awareness for these charities is the biggest contribution that
you can do. One thing I love about the Water Project is they show extreme awareness of
the different projects that they're working on. You can notice right there in that lineup,
you can choose exactly which community that you help. And what's cool is if you dedicate
a dollar to it, $10 or $10,000, you get to see that project come to fruition. They actually
show you the results of what occurs and how they go about completing the project so that
community get access to clean drinking water. And once a community has access to clean drinking
water, kids are in school. They're not chasing after water for the community. Grandmas, grandpas,
people who are alone and have to go miles to get water, it changes their life and their
health. You know, you can't really quantify the full reality, the full aspect of what
that does for people. I'd also like to make sure that we take a little moment of silence.
Speaking of charities are giving back or the need for aid, I'm not going to be silent,
but I hope you are. And I hope you meditate and pray on this while I'm talking about it.
There's a new war going on between Israel and Palestine and Hamas. And there's also
a massive earthquake that hit Afghanistan and killed original estimates for 2000 people.
Then it said 800 and it's probably somewhere in between. I haven't checked the news on
that in the last 24 hours, but it broke my heart to see that there's more pain and suffering
going on in the world. And, you know, while we're going to, we're going to compartmentalize
that, which means we're going to set that aside for the sake of the ability of up-leveling
our own growth. Why? Because as we grow, we can give back more. I hope that you remember
the people out there who need our help, those of us who are more fortunate. And I hope that
we do take time. In fact, I should have in the last 24 hours. I'm going to take some
concerted time today to make sure that I keep up to date with what's going on and what's
needed. If you know of a way to contribute to either of those causes, like I said, please
go ahead and drop it in the comments, because that could be super valuable for those who
have extreme needs far and above anything you and I are likely facing right now. So
without further ado, we're going to dive back into a happier subject. We're going to dive
back into our own training and development for how do we do these sketches that can bring
revenues and personal development and really just make the process of learning that much
more fun better. So Ashton, thank you so much for joining me at Vision Pros Live and welcome
to the show.
I'm so happy to be here, Jackson. Thanks so much for inviting me.
Absolutely. So Ashton, let's dive in hot and heavy. All right. So people are listening
to what I said. I'm curious from your perspective, who should be listening and why should they
listen to you about the sketch stuff or in general? And what are they going to get out
of today's show, do you think?
All right. So the who is anybody who ends up in situations where they need to learn
something. They're listening to information, presentations and meetings and things like
that. So that's the who. The why, I guess, is because I've been basically doing this
professionally for 10 years, coming up to my 10 year anniversary this month, which is
pretty wild to think about. Started building a business around seven years ago. But, you
know, I've been doing it for a little while. Ten years, I think, is no small feat. And,
you know, we're going to learn whatever ends up happening here today for conversation.
You know, it's really about, you know, taking back the power of the pen and using it in
a way to help you learn and think, you know, and those doodles that you did in your notebooks,
they're actually helping you engage. They're doing the opposite of what people think. So,
you know, what does that look like to doodle and make those doodles work for you a little
bit more? And, you know, it'd be awesome if we end up having some sort of conversation
around creativity and how everybody is creative in their own way and how it's such a valuable
piece of our life and business. I love that. We might take a moment to make fun of some
of my horrific doodles. Before we do that, Cynthia, could you share a little bit of the
sketches? It would be great. Thank you. Okay. Just letting Cynthia know, we want to see
some of these sketches because I just love to see your creative artwork on them. And
it's just so impactful. Like, oh, wow. Okay. That's the type of designs that we're talking
about. Like the one that's on the screen right now on building a diverse, it's a little small
for me. Team. Yes. Building diverse teams. Yeah. But I can see all the colors on it.
I can see how much I could learn quickly by looking at that particular sketch. But let's
talk about your vision a little bit. So what's the vision that you have for those that you
serve? Yeah. So for me, it's really about the power visual communication and how the
majority of us consider themselves visual learners. And we think in pictures, right?
That's why it's cliches. It sounds like a picture is worth a thousand words, right?
So but oftentimes we find ourselves in situations where there isn't visuals to kind of help
support our learning. And for us who are neuro typical or neuro diverse can be a really like
powerful way to help us think and learn and listen to information. Because at the end
of the day, you don't want to have to go back and like rings of random notes or things that
you can't remember what was said. And for me, it's about, you know, the vision of helping
people learn while they're listening to information, which seems kind of like, oh, doesn't everybody
do that? But not necessarily because the way traditional note taking happens, or even when
you're typing your notes, a lot of times you're missing that understanding piece, right? You're
just listening and you're capturing, you're listening and you're capturing down a bunch
of words and you don't actually, you didn't actually learn in the moment. So, you know,
in terms of like, we are in a instant gratification world, right? Like, we don't always have time
to kind of go back and look at all of these things and try to digest them later on, right?
So it's really about that real time engagement of that information and supporting people
in that way. Absolutely. And you know, there are a lot of people that are going to be listening
to this podcast, you're going to have to imagine what it is we're talking about while other
people get to see on the screen what it is we're doing. And, you know, forgive yourself
for that. If you're driving, don't worry about it. You know, you can always come back to
it later. The point is to grasp the concept. And I would say if you're hearing this, imagine
what we're talking about and then later go and opt in to Ashton's lead magnet. I mean,
it's pretty stellar how she showcases what it is that she does and how it is that she
can help you learn to exercise this superpower. And again, sometimes we're in a position to
use the superpower. Sometimes we're not, you know, and so being proactive with your listening
skills is really what this sketch process is all about, I would say. So, you know, I
want to, I don't normally talk about other guests while with a guest, but one validates
your concept in a way I had never seen. And I hosted him yesterday. So Christopher Klaus,
I'm going to pull up his LinkedIn real quick because he has this image that I think you're
really going to love. And so not the left-hand side, although that's quite dynamic too, but
on the right-hand side, it says a picture is worth a thousand words. A flow is worth
a hundred pictures. Sketching a flow is greater than writing a novel. And as I thought about
that and pondered, I was like, dang, and if it's the right flow, he's got some serious
valid points on that. And the flow is very, very similar to a sketch. One's just a little
bit nerdier than the other, which I would say the workflow would be the thing that's
a little bit nerdier and that again, being a superpower that we can tap into. So, you
know, as we get ready to come back to that as well, let me pull this question up. I'd
like to know from you, what's your vision? Ashton, what are you looking to accomplish
in the next five to 10 years? I would love to get the skillset of sketchnoting. So drawing
information into like a million hands. I think that would be pretty dope. I think that would
be pretty cool. Yeah.
Snoting into a million hands. That is awesome. I think you're well on your way for that.
So, maybe on that five year track. So that'll be fun. Okay. And moving into a darker area.
You've been at this for about 10 years. You've been in the business part for about seven
years. What's your worst business experience ever?
Oh my gosh. Okay. So, oh, I don't have that many, to be honest with you. I think the nature
of my work brings joy and people don't choose to work with me unless they are joyful and
playful because they have to understand the value, but then also be willing to do something
different. Right. And that in itself is really allows you to work with people who are really
flexible and creative. So there's only been really a few instances and it's been where
people have tried to push the limit of our contract, let's say. I think it's pretty mild,
but I think the worst experience was someone just being blatantly mean to me. And they
were really rude to me in person. And then they sent me the most hateful email I ever
received about a half an hour after. And it was a really short job. I had to go in, I
was only an hour. I was already in the city anyways. That day I had to set up for an event
that I was doing the following day. So I was like, you know what? I'll just come. It's
only an hour. I don't typically would do that if I have to travel, but I was going to be
there anyways. I was like, I'm just going to do it anyways. And it was in a hotel in
a city that I wasn't familiar with. And I still had enough time to do my setup, but
I was a little rushed and more rushed than I would have liked. And he was, they would
let me eat and they, I did it and it was fine. But when it's only an hour, it's a lot to
do in an hour when you're in person drawing with paper and markers, right? So it's pretty
normal to like spend a few minutes finishing up. And because she had been mean to me before,
I was like in my head a little bit more. So I think it was taking me like an extra few
minutes, like 15 minutes, let's say to finish up this graphic. And they were really rushing
me. And she sent me this, in this nasty email was basically like, you know, the fact it
wasn't done immediately, like that's not cool. And we were waiting around, even though the
speakers were having a good time, they were just waiting and laughing and joking around
behind me. You know, they weren't like tapping their toe, like we have to go. So I guess
I just brought her back and was like, cause she's like, I would love to talk to you and
give you advice about your business and blah, blah, blah. So I just brought her back and
was like, you know, this, how I worked was very normal. This is an industry standard
that you're, you're in real time, but it's pretty standard practice to take a few minutes
after and finish up. So she never ever responded to my email. Cause I kind of did, you know,
I put my foot down and obviously never work with them again. But it was just like the
way that her email was worded was like, first she was like mean to me in person, which I
thought was like really uncool. And then she was like really mean to me a half an hour
later in an email. It was like, it was like the weirdest thing. And, and I was still,
that was quite a few years ago now. I think that was like back in 2018, 2019 maybe. So,
you know, I was in it for a couple of years at that point that I was like, okay, I can
stand my ground on this, but it still was like, it was still quite a shocker. I was
like the blatantness of the being how unkind she was, was really a surprise to me. But
yeah, that's pretty, I think that's pretty mild compared to probably most people's experiences.
But it's, it's, it might be, it might be mild, but it's also something that so many people
that are starting out face. It's also something that people that are in the spaces of market
marketing or sales face on almost an hourly basis. You know, and so it's, it's always
helpful to know that, that people go through that, you know, even, even study who's got
that like angelic glow, like you do. I'm right. Like you could, it's obvious that you're kind,
right? And you say putting your foot down. I would say you drew a healthy boundary. Good
for you. You know, like, you know, it would be very easy to get defensive in that situation
and, and, or it would be very easy to crack and crumble or doubt yourself. You didn't,
you know, you, you know, the, you know, the realities of what you do, you're very self
aware to that, taking that approach. And then this lady, you know, she wants to become your
Oracle, you know, in a very demanding and unhealthy way, you know, right. Let me tell
you how to run your business. Like it's tough because we, we have this challenge of, we
want to get feedback, right? We want it. We want to get better at what we do. But did
you feel like you missed out by not getting feedback from her? And if not, why? I don't
think I did because like, there was obviously, she obviously had an agenda in a very specific
way that she thought I should be doing things. And I, even though I was very curious, I was
actually hoping she would have written me back and have a conversation. Cause I was,
I felt at that point that I was just more curious of what she was going to say. I knew
I probably wasn't going to take anything. I wasn't going to let her push me around,
but I was just like, I was just curious of what she was going to say. It was just kind
of nosy. But at the same time, I'm like, this is a waste of time and energy when I could
be using that time and energy to work with someone who loves me and wants to work with
me. Right? So at the end of the day, it was totally fine that she never wrote me back,
but I was, I was certainly curious. I'm not going to lie. I wonder what she thinks that
I should be doing. You know, I've been the curiosity that killed the cat many times.
You were saying you were good at it. You do the right thing. My disc kind of let it go.
I like what you said too. You know, it would have been a waste of energy. Um, you know,
and I, I maybe you probably don't remember the things that you did right after that.
Um, but I imagine whatever you've gravitated towards, uh, probably renewed your energy,
right? Allowed you to move forward. So whatever, whatever mysterious secret the Oracle of darkness
had, um, you know, was probably not that great of insight based on the personality that we
just heard come across. Um, so if you're standing in a company where you're serving billions
of people, maybe that would matter. But when you're constantly dealing with a different
audience that appreciates what you do, um, going to that extreme may not be in the best
interest of anybody. So, yeah, somebody said, I don't, I don't know what the percentage
in numbers is, but it's like, you know, if 1% of the population hates Oprah, that's like
millions of people, right? And like, is she still Oprah doing her thing, man? You know,
like, yes, okay. If 1% of the population doesn't get your vibe. You know, absolutely.
All said, and, and Dwayne Johnson stacked on top of that. He said, some people don't
like me and some people don't have good taste. Um, all right, cool. So Cynthia's got, uh,
this YouTube channel up sketch note school. Um, and this is your channel, correct? I mean,
somebody's like social stalking you. One of these two things is happening with all these
great images of you. So, um, very good. So on the YouTube channel, um, let's see here,
how many videos do you have more or less and how often do you release content? Yeah. So
my, I started releasing a bunch of the shorts over the summer, just like for fun, just to
see if people would be interested in. I got a decent amount of feedback from those, which
is kind of fun, but it's in my, um, I, I kind of the YouTube channel I have right now in
a lot of those videos, it's a, it's a bit of an amalgamation of videos of things. And
I think that's like, okay, when you're starting a YouTube channel, you're like, okay, I think
this is what I want to do, but I don't really know. Um, so I have in my roster of some videos
to, I want to kind of revamp my YouTube channel and really focus on teaching sketch, noting
skills to people. Um, that's sort of my real main focus right now, whereas there's a lot
of videos on there that are like how I run my graphic recording business. It's like,
here's some sketch, noting and here's some business. And here's a little bit of everything
around what it is that I do. Um, but I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to focus on
doing what I really want to focus on, which is teaching sketch, noting skills. So moving
forward from here on out is going to be focused on, on that for sure. Nice. I love that. And
I agree with you. Um, you know, you, you, when you're, um, a new business, you have
an audience that's still exploring you and then still, you know, very much evolving,
right? So to be constantly aware and listening to that, but also listening to yourself and
your passion, your intuition of where you're taking people, both of those things are super
smart lessons. Let's talk about your best experience. And I also got to ask you about
the Steve Wozniak experience too, but first thing, let's go best experience in business
so far.
Oh my gosh. Best experience in business. Um, that's a tricky one. I think. I think
because I want to.
Come back to it. Let's do Steve first. Okay. Okay. And then that way your brain's going
to think of it while we're talking. That's totally fine.
It's a funny thing. Cause it's like, Ooh, do I just keep name dropping or I just like
show how fancy I am. It's like,
Well, I think it's helpful. I think that does help people get context around people they,
they understand. So you're welcome to do both.
Yeah. So I think, yeah, Steve Wozniak and I was also ultimately at my other name drop
was Sir Tim Berners-Lee, which is the inventor of the worldwide web. Um, so it was on stage
with both of those in two different times. Just kind of a big deal. Kind of a big deal.
And um, yeah. So, so it's two different, one was one year, one was the next. And yeah,
it definitely is, it's pretty humbling to be on the stage with somebody who is so revered.
Um, and you just kind of have to treat them like everybody else at the same time. You're
like, he's just a dude. They're just dudes and they're just talking. And we're just going
to, I'm just gonna listen to what they're saying and, um, and keep going and draw what
I'm hearing from them. Right. The good, the bad, the ugly. So it's a, yeah, I think it's
the number of eyeballs on you is almost like more terrifying than the celebrity aspect
of the person. Right. Because the people in that room, like there's thousands of people
in there and they're crammed in there because they want to see, see these people. Right.
So that's, you have to really try hard as you can to not be worrying about the fact
that you have all these eyeballs staring at what it is that you're doing. You know, they're
looking at Steve, but then they're looking over at you and you're, it's like Steven,
you or Tim and you, right? So it's a cool photo. Yeah. I do have a cool photo of like
Tim interacting with me on stage, which is pretty, pretty dope. So yeah. Oh, fine. Always
was his reaction to the sketch. Uh, he didn't really say too much. I think he was just so
swarmed. Like he was like, he walked by me off the stage. I kind of nodded to each other
and, um, you know, he just got swarmed by like, you got, you got the head nod of approval
from wads. I'm down with that. You know, that's a man thing. You know, I'm sure they're going
to do it too, but you know, you get that nod. That's often, you know, military people, tech
people that's like a massive hug from somebody like that. That's true. That's true. Um, but
yeah, so it's, uh, yeah. You have this book. Yeah. The book I just released a few months
ago. It was really a labor of love for sure. Um, the beginner's guide to sketch noting
and sketch noting is like a common term or more popularized term for visual note taking.
So basically taking the same skillset that I use as a professional when I'm doing it
at conferences and meetings and things, but doing it for yourself. So more personalized
note taking. And that's what I'm really kind of passionate about moving forward in my work
and my life and my business is teaching the skillset to others because it doesn't always
have to be the Ashton show, right? Ashton's going to come and do it for us. And you know,
some people don't have the budgets for that and what have you. And I think it's such a
powerful skill for people to just do on their own, um, to do all the things that it says
there, like retain more information, increasing focus, deepening your understanding and all
of those kinds of things. Right. So, um, and it's fun. We should always mention that. Yeah,
absolutely. So I did, I did promise everybody, I talk about how you could, I wish more people
understood that word. You could, you can, it's possible, not Jackson's promising this,
but you can literally turn sketches like this into millions of dollars in ROI. Um, and that
is not an impossible task. I'm actually going to steal screen share a little bit for, for
a minute to do this one, but some of you are, for most of you, almost everybody listening
is very familiar with Ted talks, um, and how powerful Ted talks are. And some of you don't
know that one of the most popular Ted talks of all time was sir Ken Robinson. Um, most
of you again know that it's in the top 10, probably top two. This, these talks have,
if you look on the right hand side here, 75 million views for his June 2006 talk, uh,
10.4 million views on 2010. That's not counting YouTube and all the other platforms where
the same thing is hosted. And what, how the first time I saw it, I saw it with this sketch
up. Um, and this has 2 million views and the ability to listen to him talk about the process
of education and watch this emotional story unfold because of the graphics. It just made
a whole lot of sense. I was like, Whoa, that was one of the most powerful, incredibly powerful,
um, like presentations I had, I had ever seen, um, when I saw it. So, um, learning again
to do this can serve you in many different ways. Are you aware of, um, other use cases
that you've seen that have gone, that have been really popular or that have gone viral
related sketching? Anything come to mind? Hmm. I don't know about viral. I would say
this RSA animate, uh, it was really around the time that that one was released. It kind
of blew up and, and a lot of programs have been kind of, excuse me. When you say RSA,
what does that mean? RSA, I don't know what it stands for. Uh, but it's, it's like the
style. It's like the whiteboard animation. Ah, the whiteboard animation to move for presentation
purposes. Yeah. So I don't know if the RSA is just like the company that created, started
doing it. And then it just kind of blew up from there. And there's like companies now
that you can like put in clip art and have a fake hand do it, which I don't really like
personally, but sure. Sure. Whatever. You're sketch notes. Stop though. You know, I am
not making it to new heights. So I'm okay with that. I think like, you know, when you,
when you, you're still then getting a computer to do something, right? You're not, you're
not doing it for yourself. Oh, that's true. You're actually, you know, and I, I appreciate
that because you, you do, you focus on the fact that if you're not learning the skill
yourself, you're limiting your own capabilities of being able to utilize this. So there's
a purpose of, of gain and exposure, but you're more about the holistic purpose of, of self
development. It sounds like, which I, I love that. That's cool. Yeah. And like in my sketch
notes school community, there's like a couple of people in there and they're really kind
of into self development. So that's what they kind of like to focus on. They're like, Oh,
you know, glimmers instead of triggers and like that kind of thing. Like there's, you
know, you can use it in so many different ways. Like, and if somebody who needs it for
like self care and, and other, you know, if you're taking it in content, not just like
in a business setting, but like a personal development kind of growth, like I like sketch
noting for myself, you know, books that I'm reading podcasts that I'm listening to webinars
and documentaries and things like that, where, you know, you want to be able to remember
and engage with, with it in the moment. And, and sometimes it's hard to be like, I'm wondering
what did that documentary say that I watched last month? I don't even remember, right?
Going beyond just remembering the idea of something like I'm really into minimalism.
So like I sketch noted like minimalism documentaries and stuff. And, you know, I'll have a deeper
understanding of minimalism and different principles of it. Other than the fact is like
minimalism is a thing that exists in the world and it has benefits, but I can't remember
what they are. I sketched it too. Yeah. I'm just kidding. Go ahead. I'm sorry. So you're
a good friend, right? No, I love that. All right. So your, your skillset, I am an awful
artist by the way. So it took a long time to be, be willing to utilize sketches for,
for gain. Oh, by the way, fight mediocrity, the YouTube channel. That's the one I thought
of that does a good job of leveraging those, those animations for the sake of storytelling.
Because he, he breaks down books, self-help books and personal development, business books
for people. And I really enjoy how he leverages the ability for sketch to, to influence others.
But back to people like me who have extreme handicaps with, with, with drawing and writing,
you know, what, what are some of the, what are some of the first things that we should
be considering doing to understand, Hey, we should listen to Ashton and start, start sketching
more. Yeah. So I really felt like there's a huge gap in between when people see what
I do, which is really highly illustrative at this point, like doing this like almost
every day for 10 years, like it is very illustrative. So there's a big gap between when people see
work like myself that I create, I've been doing it for a long time and a beginning phase.
And there, there's this like huge like, Oh, well, I'm not even gonna bother trying because
it's not never going to look like what Ashton does. Right. So what I like to do is I like
to show, well, something, what sometimes what I do is I show my early stuff and how awful
it looked to kind of like level the playing field. But then also it's about adding in
and doing really basic drawing elements. So the first thing that I like to teach people
is a line, right? It's like, if you can draw, if you can write words, you can draw because
letters are just drawing some disguise, right? Because letters are lines, they're circles,
they're squiggles, they're whatever, right? So take a line, make it squiggly, make it
zigzag, do whatever you want with it. Practice just getting in the rhythm of just drawing
different types of lines. Right. And then as you learn these other elements, like turn
that line into an arrow, then turn that line into a circle. And then you can use these
really basic drawing elements to work for you. Right. So content is always going to
be king or queen, right? Writing down the information is always going to be really important.
Right. But when you capture that information, how can you use like a line to help connect
two pieces of information to separate, to highlight, to showcase, to spark, right? How
do you, how can you use like a line, something as simple as a line, right? And sketch knowing
is it can be whatever percentage you want it to be. It could be 99% words, 1% drawings
and maybe all it is as lines, right? You got information around your page and you're
using lines to build those connections. You know, you'd probably be leaning into that
flow design that your, your friend mentioned, right? But then you can take a line and turn
it into a square. And now you have a container. So you can use containers to group information,
to reinforce meaning of a certain kind of information, to show emphasis of like a set
title or a subheading or what, like a bigger idea, throw a container around it. And it
can be something simple as a square or a circle or something. But as you kind of build your
confidence, you can then turn that square into a notebook or turn that square into a
frame or use, use the, the, the drawing elements that are doing something for you to help you
elevate the information on the page. And then just start to like, as your confidence grows
and you build your muscle memory, right? Cause like the practicing is so important because
when you put pen to paper, you don't want to hesitate. You're like, Oh, I've drawn this
before. I could do this in the moment. Right? So the practicing and building that muscle
memory is so important. And then, then I usually go into talking about starting to draw different
icons. And I've been thinking a lot about like cliches, like people who've been doing
this for a long time in my industry, they're very opinionated about like, don't use cliche
images, like don't draw light bulbs and don't draw stuff. And I'm like, but those are the
easiest things for people to learn how to draw. So like someone like me has been doing
it for 10 years. I want to stretch my visual vocabulary. I don't want to just be drawn
the same image on everything, right? You know, cause it's growth for me, but someone who's
starting out, they need to learn those more clinical cliche kind of drawings, like a light
bulb to represent an idea or what have you, because that's a really like beautiful hand
hole kind of step into it. Right. And when you build your confidence in like, I'm going
to draw a light bulb to represent an idea. I'm going to draw a magnifying to represent
focus or what have you, then you can go and just keep going from there basically. And
emphasis on the process over the product, right? You know, I do teach aesthetics. We
just talked about the product, but you still have to focus on, I'm putting pen to paper.
I'm thinking about listening. There's like a triangle, right? You're listening at the
same time. You're making sense of what you're listening to and you're capturing it. It's
all happening all at the same time. And it's like this flow, right? And that process is
just as important as how messy your sketch note looks at the end, because sometimes I
have to talk to clients and say, this is a messy conversation we're going into. The drawing
is probably going to be messy and you're going to have to be okay with that, right? It's
not going to necessarily be this clean, very cohesive graphic that I might create during
a one hour keynote presentation. But when I'm in a situation where the conversation is
messy, of course, the graphic is going to be messy. Like if it's, you know, like it's
not going to be as like perfectly designed in the moment, like that's a fallacy, right?
So anyways, I digress.
Oh, good. You made me want to hug or at least high five a caveman. You know, ones that were
way ahead of their time and drew on the walls. Like what a special person to have realized
the importance and the opportunity to do that. And it'd be really cool to like time travel
those people to the here and now and help them like, hey, you set the precedence for
this. You know, but so I went ahead and while you were talking, I started my little sketch.
And so I'm going to embarrass myself a little bit, but I'm also a little bit proud. So let's
take a look here. So here's what I've started on my now and it looks like lipstick. Well,
where do I go? Lipstick and a cloud and who knows what, but what this is, is a podcast,
right? The ability to distribute my voice is not as great as the brain power and the
strength gained for personal growth. When you scan, sketch, not just ROI, right? This
is as good as my art gets right there. So my daughter would make fun of me to the nth
degree if she saw that. But do you have any feedback for me? I'm trying to draw a little
caveman here. He's just got a lot of hair. Okay. I'll tell you what though, when I go
back to my notes, let me compare that for people. Let me show people that compared to
here are my typical notes, right? This is, and I cross them out once I'm done with them,
once I've got them transferred, I keep them and I have my different system, but that's
what I typically draw compared to the sketch. So if I'm flipping back through this, there's
which page is going to stand out to me, right? Oh, whoops wrong one. Which page is going
to be the one that draws my attention and draws my emotion back to that experience more.
It's going to be sketch. Yeah. And I actually really love what you did. And I geek out every
time anybody puts pen to paper, even if they think it's the worst drawing I've ever done,
I just think it's the best thing ever. And I love what you did because you're already
jumped to me or jumped way ahead in the sketch noting process where you're trying to make
meaning with your images and you're using icons that relate means something to you.
Right? So like the idea of the brain, a little like, you know, whatever, like straight guy,
you know, right? You're like, I find when I'm teaching this, there's, there's three different
ways that people tend to start. There's the people who do mostly words and a little bit
of drawing. There's the in betweeners. I kind of like, it's like a nice balance of both.
And then there's the people that do try to do everything in a drawing with very little
effort. Right? And I find it really fascinating how people approach it. And there's no right
way or wrong way of doing it. And I see you potentially being in that last category of
like, Oh, I'm going to try to turn these ideas into pictures with as few words as possible.
And it's just an approach. Like I said, there's no right or wrong way of doing it. It's just,
it is just an approach. And I, and I agree. And it's, it was hard to grasp that. And my,
you know, I was so self-conscious for years that it would have been hard to even try this,
but you know, we do have different strengths in how we learn. I'm not a visual learner.
You know, I should say I'm not, I am, I'm a learner of all types, but I gravitate more
towards outlines. You know, that's my, my visual component of, of, of choice. And I
don't do mind maps. Like that's very hard for me to do. I do them, but because people
like them, but it doesn't really help me think through things when I try to mind map something.
And so the reason why I'm sharing that, if you don't, if you listen better without taking
notes, that's okay. You know, like we get that and you're going to become a better listener
as you learn to take notes effectively. But that means you first have to struggle a little
bit. And you also want to recognize as a learner, is it important that I grasp all concepts
for this particular learning session? Like, because I have a test on all the matters,
or is it more important to grab one or two concepts that matter a lot to me and take
notes related to those two subjects? There's different times to learn different things.
And that, then that, that gravitates towards this drawing principle, you know, where, you
know, it's, it's going to take, it's going to take a little bit more effort to get that
down. But once you do, you unlock superpowers. And, and that's what I really gained out of
this. And my, my typical notes, I shared notes of like a meeting. This is more of what my
notes look like when I go to a conference, you know, where I got very simple, numeric
values, circles, underlines, a list of things to do with the notes on the side. So I don't
forget to take action. And sometimes brackets, sometimes I'll pull a bubble around something.
So I've learned some, some basic skills for it, but, and that just takes practice, right?
It just means, you know, we're, we have an opportunity to constantly develop our listening
skills, which then allows us to implement new things in life that, that cultivate a
better life. So I'm just, I'm an absolute baptized fan of, of what you do and how you
go about teaching people to do it. I hope millions and billions of people get to learn
from your skillset. Let's see it.
High five Jesus caveman. I like that glow on him. That's cool. I didn't capture much
because wow, that's amazing. This is our episode in like, how long did it take you to do? Well,
I just did it while we were talking here, but, and you can see like, I'm like, I obviously
cannot spell mediocrity to save my life. So, and that's part of it. It's like, it's messy.
And I'm like, oh yeah, I don't know what that word is, even though it's horribly wrong.
So I, and, and to be honest with you, I'm not a fan of mind maps either. I'm just going
to say that the sketch noting professional who doesn't like mind maps because mind maps
is too constrained for my liking. It's a very, it's a system, right? You capture in a circle,
there's a line you capture capture. And it's like a little spider web and it's cute looking.
But I find for me out of the all the years I've been doing this, there's been very few
ways or opportunities where it's like, this is a mind map. Like there's very few places
where I'm like, you know what this could use. This could use a mind map. I'm like, no, this
could use just a blank piece of paper and some, a pen or two and to capture information down.
So I think templates, I see this mind map as a template, it's a structure and they can
be extremely valuable in very certain situations, especially when entering a blank piece of paper
can be very intimidating, right? Or if you're in a situation and there's like breakout rooms
or breakout tables and you're having a conversation, like, you know, putting a line down and having,
okay, capture the first conversation on the side and the second conversation on the side,
like templates have purpose and they can be very useful, but don't like, I just hope people
don't think, oh, well, I don't, I'm not really a huge fan of mind mapping. So I'm not like,
I don't want to do this whole sketch note thing because it's, it is to me a completely
different.
I agree with that. Thank you for that. That's, that's huge. There's, there's a lot more room
to expand on it. And I think of like how cool it would be for a marketing department, for
instance, you know, for executive meetings, how cool it would be to have sketch note templates
to help you stay on point with the meeting, right? Like, okay, we're going to be talking
about this now and this now and this now, or for a sales guy that, you know, when I
was working at Lifetime Fitness, we had what was called a silt. I don't even remember why
we called it that, but it guided us through the process of our phone call with somebody
asking the basic questions of, oh, where do you live? You know, is the gym near your house
or is it en route to work? You know, and what about you? Do you have a spouse who's going
to be joining you? There were these important questions that we asked on the front end to
make sure that they were truly committed to moving forward with us. But it was a very,
it was a very blah document. And as a young professional, it was really hard to buy in
emotionally to the importance and the power and the reality of that. And if they were
to combine that with the power of sketch, it would be really interesting to see how
it would change both the productivity as well as the emotion, you know, the, the energy
of said service professionals. So with that said, we've, we've gone over a little bit,
but I'm just, I'm really excited about what you do. And Ashlyn, this has been an absolute
pleasure. Where would be the best place for people to follow your work or reach out to
you?
Yeah. So the sort of two worlds, if you're interested in kind of like, Ooh, maybe I want
to learn the skillset that she's talking about for myself. That's all sketched out school.
So sketch note dot school, everything sketch note dot school is that. And then if you're
like, Oh, I have a meeting or a conference that I know. And it'd be cool to get her to
come in as the professional and do it for us. And that's mine's iCreative.ca. That's
all all things from my professional illustration side of things. So yeah.
Awesome. I'm going to put sketch note dot school in the comments for now. We'll put
the rest in the landing page. That way people have access to the links and can get in touch
with you. This has been an absolute pleasure. Everybody at vision pros. If you have a question
for Ashton or myself, of course, feel free to drop it in the comments. If you want to
share your own sketch note, we would love that. We would geek out on that. We'd be happy
to see screenshot or your picture of what you draw or come up with. Maybe we'll even
feature it in a post. I'm sure both of us probably will.
That'd be so fun. I would love that.
And maybe we won't. If you say, please don't share this, you know, we don't, we don't have
to, of course. If you would as well, we would love to see you go leave a positive review.
Especially of the guests that you gravitate towards and that you really feel like did
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things to help us get this show in front of others. There's a lot of people who could
use this positivity and learning in the world. I'm a firm believer of that, obviously. And
we will see you all in the next episode. Thank you so much for joining us today. Bye bye.
Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy that you tuned into vision pros live.
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward.
This is going to get more and more fun. We'll have more and more engagement as well. We'll
invite people to participate in the show and thank you for giving us your time and attention.
Have an excellent night.