1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,760 Sorry, you'll have to be patient with me. 2 00:00:02,760 --> 00:00:04,760 Your audio quality is not coming through well, 3 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:08,080 but your value does come across well. 4 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:12,680 So it sometimes may seem like we're interrupting each other 5 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:14,040 or we're overlapping each other, 6 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:18,040 but I think there's just some weird internet demon 7 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,220 that does not want us to talk well. 8 00:00:20,220 --> 00:00:23,240 So just letting you know that in case 9 00:00:23,240 --> 00:00:25,440 it helps us with our banter a little bit. 10 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:26,280 Not a problem. 11 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:28,280 Awesome, man. 12 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,200 Well, Chris, I'm happy to have you on the show 13 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,120 and what are you most excited about sharing today? 14 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,360 You know, just trying to help people in the B2B space, 15 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,400 grow their accounts and grow their margins 16 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,120 because I do believe margin is the root 17 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:46,660 of success for small businesses. 18 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:50,840 Absolutely, what's your one secret weapon 19 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:51,840 for how to do that? 20 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:54,960 Relationships. 21 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,520 Oh, it was concise too. 22 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:02,960 Yeah, for sure. 23 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,080 It's all about relationships and business, 24 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,840 you know, taking the time and the effort 25 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,320 and investing it back into the existing organization. 26 00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:13,360 All right, welcome in to Vision Pros Live. 27 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,400 With Jackson Calame, I'm your show host. 28 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,080 We'll be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs 29 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,040 and guest leaders who are building 30 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:25,040 fantastic visions out there. 31 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,040 And pros, welcome to another episode of Vision Pros Live. 32 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:36,440 I'm your host, Jackson Calame, founder and CEO 33 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:38,080 of First Class Business. 34 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,400 And I'm excited to have Chris Klaus on the show today. 35 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,560 I'll go into his intro in just a minute 36 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,880 without skipping the fact that we got some awesome sponsors 37 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:47,720 to be talking about. 38 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:49,040 So we got ColdClick. 39 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,600 This is a system that we use for our LinkedIn automation. 40 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,920 It helps protect us as we implement automation 41 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,120 to attract great people to work with us and talk to us. 42 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,480 Now, when I say attract, I am actually talking about 43 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,720 utilizing very warm messages to make sure 44 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,760 that you're not just shoving your offers 45 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:07,900 down people's throat. 46 00:02:07,900 --> 00:02:10,200 And that's my tip and trick to you 47 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,560 is just be a normal human being. 48 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:13,680 When you reach out to people, 49 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:14,960 let people study your profile. 50 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,080 If your profile shows that you're an expert, 51 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,000 they may want to talk to you 52 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,560 if you show up as a genuine human being. 53 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,480 But the process of automation also makes sure 54 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,400 that we're able to distribute our message 55 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,560 to more and more people and attract said great leaders. 56 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,400 So the tool is never the problem. 57 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:34,760 The tool is a resource. 58 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,000 And how we choose to utilize the resource 59 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:38,960 is either a problem or a blessing. 60 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,120 Water can drown people, 61 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:45,540 but water can also provide tremendous blessings to people. 62 00:02:45,540 --> 00:02:50,200 And that actually makes me need to stop for a moment. 63 00:02:51,100 --> 00:02:55,180 I actually would like to give a brief moment of silence. 64 00:02:55,180 --> 00:02:57,280 I don't know if you are paying attention to the news 65 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,280 and what's going on, but Israel is now in a war 66 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:04,800 with Hamas and Palestine is also affected by it. 67 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,560 I don't want to take sides 68 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,600 in really any relationships in life. 69 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,760 We are all brothers and sisters on this planet, 70 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:15,600 and not all of us know that, 71 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,400 but I just want to make sure that if you haven't heard 72 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,160 the news, it's something that you should really be looking 73 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:23,360 at and paying attention to. 74 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,020 And there's more unfortunate news 75 00:03:26,020 --> 00:03:28,340 that we are also probably not aware of. 76 00:03:28,340 --> 00:03:31,200 And that's that Afghanistan was hit by an earthquake. 77 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:32,960 And according to initial reports, 78 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,520 2000 people died in said earthquake. 79 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:40,280 Another report said 800, whether it was one person or 800, 80 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,300 the loss is obviously devastating 81 00:03:43,300 --> 00:03:45,340 for those closest and affected by it. 82 00:03:45,340 --> 00:03:50,180 So if you would, I won't be silent during this actually, 83 00:03:50,180 --> 00:03:52,220 I'll use the time productively, 84 00:03:52,220 --> 00:03:55,180 but maybe just have your thoughts and prayers with people, 85 00:03:55,180 --> 00:03:57,800 but also consider if you know a link 86 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,420 of how people can help effectively, please share it 87 00:04:00,420 --> 00:04:01,580 in the comments. 88 00:04:01,580 --> 00:04:04,660 If you are in a position to help out, 89 00:04:04,660 --> 00:04:06,220 then go look for the links 90 00:04:06,220 --> 00:04:08,200 and how can you help those circumstances. 91 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,060 But the world's been going through a lot of darkness 92 00:04:12,060 --> 00:04:16,360 in a lot of different ways for thousands of years. 93 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,420 Let's not sugarcoat it. 94 00:04:18,420 --> 00:04:20,860 We don't necessarily live in an exceptional time. 95 00:04:20,860 --> 00:04:23,020 And at the same time we do. 96 00:04:23,020 --> 00:04:24,540 And so with that said, 97 00:04:24,540 --> 00:04:26,920 we're going to enjoy this episode of Vision Pros. 98 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,440 We're going to compartmentalize this experience, 99 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,740 find our abilities to help in that cause outside 100 00:04:33,740 --> 00:04:37,260 of sharing the awareness on the microphone, 101 00:04:37,260 --> 00:04:39,540 but also we're going to dive in to the blessing 102 00:04:39,540 --> 00:04:42,480 that we have of being able to host Chris 103 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,900 and learn from his experience as a tech wizard. 104 00:04:45,900 --> 00:04:49,580 He's like Bill Nye, the science guy, but better looking. 105 00:04:49,580 --> 00:04:51,320 And he helps with business, 106 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,180 not just basic facts about physics and chemistry. 107 00:04:54,180 --> 00:04:55,440 So that'll be fun. 108 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,940 Anyway, I'm going to dive into TapMental now a little bit. 109 00:04:58,940 --> 00:05:01,380 There's Chris, there's our Bill Nye. 110 00:05:01,380 --> 00:05:05,220 So the tapmental.io is a client of ours. 111 00:05:05,220 --> 00:05:07,460 And I've been super impressed with David Goodall 112 00:05:07,460 --> 00:05:10,780 and the types of results that he's able to get for clients 113 00:05:10,780 --> 00:05:13,140 who are looking for operational help. 114 00:05:13,140 --> 00:05:16,980 Him and Chris probably have a very harmonic overlap 115 00:05:16,980 --> 00:05:18,820 in the way that they both do things. 116 00:05:18,820 --> 00:05:21,020 What I love about David is his ability to get 117 00:05:21,020 --> 00:05:25,560 into the emotional healing within the founders 118 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,700 of said ventures and help them recognize 119 00:05:28,700 --> 00:05:31,180 that overcoming their trauma, 120 00:05:31,180 --> 00:05:35,120 overcoming their experiences at a deeper level 121 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,580 will root out the core problems 122 00:05:37,580 --> 00:05:40,660 that are ultimately holding back their ability to scale, 123 00:05:40,660 --> 00:05:43,940 which then affects his ability to put workflow processes 124 00:05:43,940 --> 00:05:45,980 and systems in place that make the most sense 125 00:05:45,980 --> 00:05:46,900 for said companies. 126 00:05:46,900 --> 00:05:50,420 So feel free to check out ColdClick and TapMental. 127 00:05:50,420 --> 00:05:54,420 And last but not least, the Water Project. 128 00:05:54,420 --> 00:05:56,660 I'm a huge fan of the Water Project. 129 00:05:56,660 --> 00:05:59,100 And no matter what else is going on in the world, 130 00:06:00,220 --> 00:06:01,040 it breaks my heart. 131 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:02,420 There are people that do not have access 132 00:06:02,420 --> 00:06:03,700 to clean drinking water. 133 00:06:03,700 --> 00:06:06,020 And every day we've got an opportunity to step up 134 00:06:06,020 --> 00:06:08,580 and help out with this by giving a dollar 135 00:06:08,580 --> 00:06:12,340 or again, raising awareness for people who are less aware 136 00:06:12,340 --> 00:06:17,060 of the realities that some people face out there. 137 00:06:17,060 --> 00:06:20,080 And I feel fortunate enough that I need to spread the word 138 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,380 about that as well and help people understand 139 00:06:22,380 --> 00:06:24,460 that you have an opportunity not only to give back, 140 00:06:24,460 --> 00:06:28,060 but to also see how your dollar goes 141 00:06:28,060 --> 00:06:30,740 towards helping the community you chose to support. 142 00:06:30,740 --> 00:06:32,580 And I think that's really cool. 143 00:06:32,580 --> 00:06:34,660 I don't know too many organizations 144 00:06:34,660 --> 00:06:38,480 that were doing that as soon as the Water Project 145 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:39,500 started doing it. 146 00:06:39,500 --> 00:06:41,620 And it just gives us that transparency. 147 00:06:41,620 --> 00:06:44,240 You know, I was like, okay, my support is going 148 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,940 to a community that's actually in need. 149 00:06:46,940 --> 00:06:49,340 And I get to see the outcome of said experience. 150 00:06:49,340 --> 00:06:52,800 So anyway, let's get Chris on the show now. 151 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,980 And Chris, Klaus, I'm excited to talk to you. 152 00:06:55,980 --> 00:06:57,800 All things tech, all things business, 153 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,180 whatever we can cram into the next 30, 45 minutes, 154 00:07:01,180 --> 00:07:03,420 we will absolutely do just that. 155 00:07:03,420 --> 00:07:07,080 So Chris, Klaus, thank you for joining me 156 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:08,520 on Vision Pros Live. 157 00:07:11,140 --> 00:07:12,420 Let me pull you up. 158 00:07:12,420 --> 00:07:13,260 There we go. 159 00:07:13,260 --> 00:07:14,860 Now you're on. 160 00:07:14,860 --> 00:07:16,980 I'm excited to be here, Jackson. 161 00:07:16,980 --> 00:07:17,800 Absolutely. 162 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,980 So we're going to be showing some of your websites 163 00:07:19,980 --> 00:07:21,180 as we talk. 164 00:07:21,180 --> 00:07:24,220 You have quite a few ventures that you're involved in. 165 00:07:24,220 --> 00:07:27,140 Kilo feet, you've got SAS Rock, 166 00:07:27,140 --> 00:07:29,540 you've got the Realty Tech, 167 00:07:29,540 --> 00:07:32,560 where you're teaching about AI and how to utilize that. 168 00:07:33,460 --> 00:07:36,120 You know, I guess with all of that under your belt, 169 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,580 knowing that we're talking to visionary entrepreneurs, 170 00:07:39,580 --> 00:07:43,460 people who can also envision themselves as market leaders, 171 00:07:43,460 --> 00:07:45,460 who should be listening today? 172 00:07:45,460 --> 00:07:47,280 Why should they listen to you? 173 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:49,820 And what are they going to get out of today's show? 174 00:07:49,820 --> 00:07:50,660 All right. 175 00:07:50,660 --> 00:07:52,340 I think the thing we're going to talk about the most 176 00:07:52,340 --> 00:07:54,180 is probably account expansion. 177 00:07:54,180 --> 00:07:56,380 So I would say that people who would benefit the most 178 00:07:56,380 --> 00:08:01,380 are B2B executives, salespeople, and or owners. 179 00:08:03,300 --> 00:08:06,140 They should listen because I've helped expand accounts 180 00:08:06,140 --> 00:08:08,340 at the last several companies that I've worked at, 181 00:08:08,340 --> 00:08:13,340 as well as for my consultants, my clients. 182 00:08:14,180 --> 00:08:16,660 And they're going to learn some techniques 183 00:08:16,660 --> 00:08:18,060 that will help them do that. 184 00:08:18,060 --> 00:08:20,000 And when I say expand accounts, 185 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,740 I mean, take an account from 30,000 to 200,000, 186 00:08:23,740 --> 00:08:26,820 take an account from 400,000 to 3 million. 187 00:08:26,820 --> 00:08:31,460 You know, these kinds of processes take work. 188 00:08:31,460 --> 00:08:33,900 But I think most small business owners 189 00:08:33,900 --> 00:08:37,220 spend far too much time trying to acquire new leads 190 00:08:37,220 --> 00:08:40,740 instead of investing in the accounts that they already have. 191 00:08:42,100 --> 00:08:43,220 Well said. 192 00:08:43,220 --> 00:08:44,500 That will be fun to unpack. 193 00:08:44,500 --> 00:08:47,260 And I think you just nailed the second piece pretty well, 194 00:08:47,260 --> 00:08:49,520 which is what is your vision for those that you serve? 195 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,820 You hit some of the tangible outcomes of that, 196 00:08:52,820 --> 00:08:54,420 which is awesome. 197 00:08:54,420 --> 00:08:57,620 What do you hope that leads to for your clients? 198 00:08:57,620 --> 00:08:58,740 Margin. 199 00:08:58,740 --> 00:09:02,660 So I really do believe that if you invest right 200 00:09:02,660 --> 00:09:03,980 and you can grow accounts, 201 00:09:03,980 --> 00:09:08,220 you have a long-term scalable and sustainable business. 202 00:09:08,220 --> 00:09:11,140 So you can have margin and you can be protected 203 00:09:11,140 --> 00:09:14,140 from the ups and the downs and the cycles that exist 204 00:09:14,140 --> 00:09:16,660 because you're not a transactional company at that point. 205 00:09:16,660 --> 00:09:19,920 You're a relationship company and your clients, 206 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,060 your partners will stay with you through thick and thin 207 00:09:23,060 --> 00:09:25,100 if you do the same for them. 208 00:09:25,100 --> 00:09:27,700 Let me have some limiting belief fun 209 00:09:27,700 --> 00:09:29,580 and twist your words a little bit. 210 00:09:29,580 --> 00:09:34,380 So you make people rich and greedy, right, with margins. 211 00:09:34,380 --> 00:09:36,300 No, but go ahead. 212 00:09:36,300 --> 00:09:39,020 Help somebody understand that heard that, 213 00:09:39,020 --> 00:09:40,660 what it is you mean again. 214 00:09:40,660 --> 00:09:42,700 I don't believe without margin, 215 00:09:42,700 --> 00:09:45,120 you can actually invest in your clients 216 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:46,140 and your relationships. 217 00:09:46,140 --> 00:09:48,980 If you operate at a single digit margin, 218 00:09:48,980 --> 00:09:51,340 you can't go above and beyond. 219 00:09:51,340 --> 00:09:54,860 You can only provide the service you already provide. 220 00:09:54,860 --> 00:09:59,020 But if you start to increase or less, yeah. 221 00:09:59,020 --> 00:10:00,780 But if you increase your margins, 222 00:10:00,780 --> 00:10:02,980 you actually allow yourself the opportunity 223 00:10:02,980 --> 00:10:07,380 when you see an opportunity to invest in that account 224 00:10:07,380 --> 00:10:10,260 and to help the client even more. 225 00:10:10,260 --> 00:10:11,880 So margin begets quality. 226 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,420 I'm a big, big believer in that. 227 00:10:14,420 --> 00:10:17,940 And I think you can always be the Walmarts of the world 228 00:10:17,940 --> 00:10:21,340 chasing the single digit margins, 229 00:10:21,340 --> 00:10:23,380 or you can be the Apple of the world 230 00:10:23,380 --> 00:10:26,140 and be chasing double digit or triple digit, 231 00:10:26,140 --> 00:10:27,260 well, double digit margins. 232 00:10:27,260 --> 00:10:31,300 But because that double, that high, 233 00:10:31,300 --> 00:10:33,780 the 20 to 30 to 50% margins, 234 00:10:33,780 --> 00:10:37,540 those allow you to invest in your product, 235 00:10:37,540 --> 00:10:41,480 to invest in yourself, to invest in your clients. 236 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,380 And ultimately the combination of those investments 237 00:10:44,380 --> 00:10:46,100 is what allows you to have a better product 238 00:10:46,100 --> 00:10:48,220 and a better customer experience. 239 00:10:48,220 --> 00:10:49,060 It's funny, man. 240 00:10:49,060 --> 00:10:50,940 I'm gonna dive a little deeper. 241 00:10:50,940 --> 00:10:54,620 I love that you use the generalized view of Apple 242 00:10:54,620 --> 00:10:56,340 and Walmart to depict this, 243 00:10:56,340 --> 00:10:59,140 because it's an easy concept for people to understand 244 00:10:59,140 --> 00:11:01,900 since you buy $1 items at Walmart 245 00:11:01,900 --> 00:11:06,900 versus buying, I don't know, $4,000 earbuds at Apple. 246 00:11:07,340 --> 00:11:08,620 So I get that. 247 00:11:08,620 --> 00:11:10,900 And for those of you who are listening in, 248 00:11:10,900 --> 00:11:12,940 Chris knows this as much as I do. 249 00:11:12,940 --> 00:11:15,580 And I appreciate, again, the oversimplification 250 00:11:15,580 --> 00:11:17,980 can be helpful to draw a correlation. 251 00:11:17,980 --> 00:11:20,540 But I also want everybody to catch the nuance 252 00:11:20,540 --> 00:11:22,760 that he and I know that, well, wait a second. 253 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,420 Apple, I'm also an, I'm an Apple customer. 254 00:11:25,420 --> 00:11:27,040 I have iTunes, right? 255 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,860 I don't pay a dime for iTunes, right? 256 00:11:29,860 --> 00:11:32,700 So I've got my free Walmart style product through them 257 00:11:32,700 --> 00:11:35,200 and they use that to get me into their bucket 258 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,580 so they can continue to sell me things 259 00:11:37,580 --> 00:11:39,700 if I ever decide to go that route. 260 00:11:39,700 --> 00:11:42,100 And in the case of Android, same thing, 261 00:11:42,100 --> 00:11:44,820 Android, Apple, I don't care, I don't wanna fight. 262 00:11:44,820 --> 00:11:47,620 But the same thing, I get into their free stuff 263 00:11:47,620 --> 00:11:50,200 and then I end up with their higher ticket items. 264 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:51,300 Walmart's the same way. 265 00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:53,460 That's why Walmart is worldwide, right? 266 00:11:53,460 --> 00:11:56,020 You go and you buy the milk at a loss, 267 00:11:56,020 --> 00:11:58,700 but those plastic cups you're buying 268 00:11:58,700 --> 00:12:00,780 or those t-shirts on the rack that you're buying, 269 00:12:00,780 --> 00:12:04,820 the markup, the margin is phenomenal for that entity as well, 270 00:12:04,820 --> 00:12:06,900 which is why they're able to scale. 271 00:12:06,900 --> 00:12:10,220 And the key is finding somebody like Chris 272 00:12:10,220 --> 00:12:12,100 who helps you figure out how the heck do you do that 273 00:12:12,100 --> 00:12:14,860 for your brand, not getting distracted by the other brand? 274 00:12:14,860 --> 00:12:19,000 So what's your vision, Chris, for yourself in all of this? 275 00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:25,020 There's a Japanese word I'm probably gonna butcher it 276 00:12:25,020 --> 00:12:28,260 called ikikage, I believe, which is that intersection 277 00:12:28,260 --> 00:12:32,240 of your purpose, your vision, how you make money, 278 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,260 what you're good at, and all of those different things. 279 00:12:35,260 --> 00:12:42,260 I truly love enabling individuals ikikage. 280 00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:46,020 That is cool that they have words to define things like that, 281 00:12:46,020 --> 00:12:49,420 like holistic ideas, rather than having to use 282 00:12:49,420 --> 00:12:50,840 a long phrase like us. 283 00:12:51,980 --> 00:12:54,980 That's why they sound so wise all the time. 284 00:12:54,980 --> 00:12:56,720 So, all right, let's dive in a little bit 285 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,220 to that margin aspect, man, teach me, teach away. 286 00:12:59,220 --> 00:13:01,780 So how do you go from 30,000 to 200,000? 287 00:13:01,780 --> 00:13:03,600 What does that look like? 288 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,100 Well, so it starts with like a process, 289 00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:08,900 and there are four different ways 290 00:13:08,900 --> 00:13:11,540 that you can make additional money. 291 00:13:11,540 --> 00:13:14,260 You can upsell, you can go through 292 00:13:14,260 --> 00:13:16,620 the traditional land and expand, 293 00:13:16,620 --> 00:13:19,180 you can start to offer tailored solutions 294 00:13:19,180 --> 00:13:21,820 when you have deep relationships with your clients, 295 00:13:21,820 --> 00:13:25,060 or you can offer new offerings based upon listening 296 00:13:25,060 --> 00:13:26,300 and hearing your clients. 297 00:13:26,300 --> 00:13:29,920 And one of the reasons that some of these processes 298 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,820 require an investment is because you do have to spend time 299 00:13:32,820 --> 00:13:34,540 listening to your customers. 300 00:13:34,540 --> 00:13:36,260 And by the way, this is good product management, 301 00:13:36,260 --> 00:13:39,180 which is my background, this is good sales, 302 00:13:39,180 --> 00:13:40,540 and this is good everything. 303 00:13:40,540 --> 00:13:43,140 Listening to your customers is critically important. 304 00:13:44,380 --> 00:13:47,100 But it starts with really a process. 305 00:13:47,100 --> 00:13:48,900 I'm sure you've heard of quarterly business reviews, 306 00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:50,500 Jackson, right? 307 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:52,140 Lots of big companies do them. 308 00:13:53,140 --> 00:13:55,160 But I think a lot of companies do them wrong. 309 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,020 And what they do at a quarterly basis 310 00:13:57,020 --> 00:13:59,020 should actually be done on a monthly basis 311 00:13:59,020 --> 00:14:01,340 when they primarily speak with just the champion 312 00:14:01,340 --> 00:14:03,100 of the account. 313 00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:05,940 The champion, and you should be talking a lot, 314 00:14:05,940 --> 00:14:08,220 and you should be dealing with each other all the time. 315 00:14:08,220 --> 00:14:10,020 When you say the champion of the account, 316 00:14:10,020 --> 00:14:12,220 are you referring to the account executive 317 00:14:12,220 --> 00:14:13,340 who manages that account, 318 00:14:13,340 --> 00:14:15,840 or are you referring to the account themself? 319 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,460 The account themselves, the champion of the account, right? 320 00:14:18,460 --> 00:14:20,100 Instead of doing that on a quarterly basis, 321 00:14:20,100 --> 00:14:22,900 that should be done on a monthly basis at a minimum. 322 00:14:22,900 --> 00:14:26,500 And then on the quarterly basis, 323 00:14:26,500 --> 00:14:28,400 the change is that you need to make sure 324 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,040 that you're dealing with either other departments 325 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,100 at the same level of that champion or the champion's boss. 326 00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:36,580 Because the quarterly business review 327 00:14:36,580 --> 00:14:40,580 should be about making the champion look good for using you. 328 00:14:40,580 --> 00:14:41,400 Okay, yeah, sorry. 329 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:42,700 Let me just make sure I understood that. 330 00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:46,180 So the champion, you're referring to the account executive 331 00:14:46,180 --> 00:14:47,020 who manages it. 332 00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:51,220 I'm referring to the champion within the organization 333 00:14:51,220 --> 00:14:53,700 that's using your software, product or service. 334 00:14:53,700 --> 00:14:55,940 Oh, so the champion is the client. 335 00:14:55,940 --> 00:14:57,580 The champion is always the client. 336 00:14:57,580 --> 00:15:01,300 Who's championing you inside of the organization? 337 00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:05,540 And that's very rarely the CEO. 338 00:15:05,540 --> 00:15:10,260 Which means there's always another person higher 339 00:15:10,260 --> 00:15:13,860 or lateral that you can be expanding 340 00:15:13,860 --> 00:15:16,460 your opportunity inside of. 341 00:15:16,460 --> 00:15:18,540 And so one of the ways to do that 342 00:15:18,540 --> 00:15:21,140 is let's say you have an account 343 00:15:23,340 --> 00:15:25,900 with let's say North America, 344 00:15:25,900 --> 00:15:29,220 and you wanna pick up the South American side of a business. 345 00:15:29,220 --> 00:15:31,820 When you do a quarterly business review, 346 00:15:31,820 --> 00:15:34,020 it's an opportunity to have 347 00:15:34,020 --> 00:15:37,020 the North American business account manager 348 00:15:37,020 --> 00:15:40,220 potentially add in the South American business account 349 00:15:40,220 --> 00:15:43,140 or his boss, the global leader, 350 00:15:43,140 --> 00:15:44,540 and bring them in and say, 351 00:15:44,540 --> 00:15:46,180 these are the things we promised, 352 00:15:46,180 --> 00:15:48,220 these are the things we delivered. 353 00:15:48,220 --> 00:15:50,820 Our champion, you wanna make your champion look good. 354 00:15:50,820 --> 00:15:52,460 This is what the champion asked for. 355 00:15:52,460 --> 00:15:53,520 This is how we did it. 356 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:54,940 This is how we improved. 357 00:15:54,940 --> 00:15:58,540 Here's the opportunities for improvement we see here. 358 00:15:58,540 --> 00:16:02,060 Is there anything we can do for you? 359 00:16:02,060 --> 00:16:04,820 And you've already had these dialogues with the champion. 360 00:16:04,820 --> 00:16:06,620 So you know what they need. 361 00:16:06,620 --> 00:16:09,100 What you don't know is what their boss wants 362 00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:10,740 or what their counterparts want. 363 00:16:10,740 --> 00:16:13,220 But having that conversation in front of those people 364 00:16:13,220 --> 00:16:17,140 is an amazing opportunity to make your champion look good. 365 00:16:17,140 --> 00:16:19,860 Hopefully you're helping him get a raise or a bonus. 366 00:16:19,860 --> 00:16:22,540 But it's also exposing you in a way 367 00:16:22,540 --> 00:16:24,740 that you could never get to those other people 368 00:16:24,740 --> 00:16:27,940 inside that company because your champion is the one 369 00:16:27,940 --> 00:16:31,340 that's helped guide and build and add 370 00:16:31,340 --> 00:16:33,620 the additional contacts and the additional leverage 371 00:16:33,620 --> 00:16:34,860 inside the organization. 372 00:16:35,860 --> 00:16:38,460 I'm a big believer in the concept, Chris, huge. 373 00:16:38,460 --> 00:16:40,700 One reason why is I'm usually, 374 00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:43,220 I was usually the champion within organizations 375 00:16:44,340 --> 00:16:46,660 that did the dirty work behind the scenes 376 00:16:46,660 --> 00:16:49,700 to get the systems to work and function. 377 00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:51,380 And there's nothing more frustrating 378 00:16:51,380 --> 00:16:52,940 than when you're dealing with a service provider 379 00:16:52,940 --> 00:16:55,260 that doesn't value your input. 380 00:16:55,260 --> 00:16:58,580 And you're trying to implement that software 381 00:16:58,580 --> 00:17:02,460 for the success of both the entity you represent 382 00:17:02,460 --> 00:17:05,980 and the software provider that you chose 383 00:17:05,980 --> 00:17:07,420 or that you decided to work with. 384 00:17:07,420 --> 00:17:10,100 So the client success manager role, 385 00:17:10,100 --> 00:17:12,260 some people would call it the CSM. 386 00:17:12,260 --> 00:17:14,940 I've seen that starting to take off 387 00:17:14,940 --> 00:17:17,100 a little bit more and more in the market. 388 00:17:17,100 --> 00:17:18,620 I think it's one of the best, 389 00:17:18,620 --> 00:17:22,620 one of the most important roles that companies can carve out. 390 00:17:22,620 --> 00:17:23,460 Go ahead. 391 00:17:23,460 --> 00:17:24,660 You got a hundred percent. 392 00:17:24,660 --> 00:17:26,300 No, I agree completely. 393 00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:29,580 And customer success managers are critically important. 394 00:17:29,580 --> 00:17:31,900 But one of the things I'm part of the process 395 00:17:31,900 --> 00:17:34,740 is understanding that your customer success team, 396 00:17:34,740 --> 00:17:37,900 your customer support team, your training department, 397 00:17:37,900 --> 00:17:42,460 and your sales team as four different organizations 398 00:17:42,460 --> 00:17:46,740 within side your organization can develop silos so fast. 399 00:17:46,740 --> 00:17:50,060 And so part of that process is every week, 400 00:17:50,060 --> 00:17:51,620 sure, you'll probably have a sales meeting 401 00:17:51,620 --> 00:17:53,660 where you view all your main accounts, 402 00:17:53,660 --> 00:17:56,460 but every month inside your organization, 403 00:17:56,460 --> 00:17:59,220 maybe a week before your monthly champion call, 404 00:18:00,380 --> 00:18:01,860 so you can be prepared for it, 405 00:18:01,860 --> 00:18:05,700 you have a account review with all your key accounts. 406 00:18:06,540 --> 00:18:07,380 I don't care what the, 407 00:18:07,380 --> 00:18:09,300 whatever the threshold is for your organization, 408 00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:11,100 maybe it's a hundred thousand a year 409 00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:14,260 and you only have to look at your top 20 accounts, 410 00:18:14,260 --> 00:18:18,740 but every single account gets its own dedicated meeting. 411 00:18:18,740 --> 00:18:21,420 And inside of that, the support department has to come 412 00:18:21,420 --> 00:18:25,260 with all the issues and an account issue analysis. 413 00:18:25,260 --> 00:18:27,220 The customer success department has to come in 414 00:18:27,220 --> 00:18:29,340 with the customer successes findings. 415 00:18:29,340 --> 00:18:31,860 Sales does the same, support does the same, 416 00:18:31,860 --> 00:18:34,100 all the departments come together 417 00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:37,820 and make a true understanding product as well. 418 00:18:37,820 --> 00:18:42,500 They build a true understanding of that customer's ethos 419 00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:44,580 and that customer, what the customer needs 420 00:18:44,580 --> 00:18:47,300 inside the organization cross-departmentally. 421 00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:50,220 You enable your sales manager, your account manager, 422 00:18:50,220 --> 00:18:53,460 your CSM, who's ever in charge of this process, 423 00:18:53,460 --> 00:18:58,460 to then have an effective call with the champion 424 00:18:59,100 --> 00:19:00,740 inside of the organization. 425 00:19:00,740 --> 00:19:02,180 And they get to say things like, 426 00:19:02,180 --> 00:19:06,060 hey, we did this customer support analysis 427 00:19:06,060 --> 00:19:07,220 and this is what we found. 428 00:19:07,220 --> 00:19:10,060 And because of that, well, I talked to the product guy 429 00:19:10,060 --> 00:19:12,660 because he was in my meeting, I talked to the product guy 430 00:19:12,660 --> 00:19:14,260 and we're going to make this tweak 431 00:19:14,260 --> 00:19:17,140 because we think it's going to improve the product for you. 432 00:19:17,140 --> 00:19:19,860 And now you've just escalated the idea 433 00:19:19,860 --> 00:19:24,580 of customer success, support, product development and sales 434 00:19:24,580 --> 00:19:26,940 and you've looped it all together 435 00:19:26,940 --> 00:19:29,900 through that one throat to choke of the account manager. 436 00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:32,300 And you've said all of my whole department, 437 00:19:32,300 --> 00:19:35,420 my whole company thinks you're important 438 00:19:35,420 --> 00:19:38,540 and we bubble it up and we review it all the time. 439 00:19:38,540 --> 00:19:41,220 And I'm having this conversation with our monthly basis, 440 00:19:41,220 --> 00:19:42,500 not a quarterly. 441 00:19:42,500 --> 00:19:44,820 And on the quarterly, what I'm going to ask you to do is 442 00:19:44,820 --> 00:19:46,540 I'm going to help you try to look good. 443 00:19:46,540 --> 00:19:48,060 So we're going to review and make sure 444 00:19:48,060 --> 00:19:50,380 that we can spin this in the best possible way 445 00:19:50,380 --> 00:19:53,420 because it's important that we both have success. 446 00:19:53,420 --> 00:19:55,140 And now how can I help you share that 447 00:19:55,140 --> 00:19:56,500 across your organization? 448 00:19:57,460 --> 00:20:01,580 Massive, massive value add when you can do that. 449 00:20:01,580 --> 00:20:03,540 But that's where I said, you have to have margin. 450 00:20:03,540 --> 00:20:06,380 Otherwise, you've got hours of time 451 00:20:06,380 --> 00:20:09,220 for a customer support person to do the analysis per account, 452 00:20:09,220 --> 00:20:10,860 hours of time for support. 453 00:20:12,540 --> 00:20:14,660 It's not a chicken and an egg. 454 00:20:14,660 --> 00:20:16,260 It's a chicken egg concept. 455 00:20:16,260 --> 00:20:19,020 You have to invest in your brand to win. 456 00:20:19,020 --> 00:20:21,580 You have to be willing to do what you need to. 457 00:20:21,580 --> 00:20:24,300 And sometimes we hold ourselves back because we say, 458 00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:27,220 well, I can't quantify the value of that. 459 00:20:27,220 --> 00:20:30,500 I can't quantify, there's no metrics to back. 460 00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:31,340 That's a lie. 461 00:20:31,340 --> 00:20:32,420 That's not true. 462 00:20:32,420 --> 00:20:35,220 However, in the effective executive, 463 00:20:35,220 --> 00:20:37,380 Dr. Peter Drucker talks about how you measure 464 00:20:37,380 --> 00:20:40,380 an executive based on quarterly performances. 465 00:20:40,380 --> 00:20:43,340 Meaning you got to give them at least four months 466 00:20:43,340 --> 00:20:46,140 to be able to begin to see what the types of results 467 00:20:46,140 --> 00:20:47,140 they might drive are. 468 00:20:47,140 --> 00:20:50,780 And a lot of times the beginning driver is uncomfortable. 469 00:20:50,780 --> 00:20:52,740 And so the results are actually going to be 470 00:20:52,740 --> 00:20:54,980 kind of funky looking in the first four months. 471 00:20:54,980 --> 00:20:56,220 Usually by month eight though, 472 00:20:56,220 --> 00:20:58,740 you have a pretty great idea of something like this 473 00:20:58,740 --> 00:21:00,140 is winning really well. 474 00:21:00,140 --> 00:21:04,340 And I would equate this to any sports person out there, 475 00:21:04,340 --> 00:21:09,340 or if you're not, consider looking up the man Dremond Green 476 00:21:09,700 --> 00:21:11,660 from the Golden State Warriors. 477 00:21:11,660 --> 00:21:13,020 And here's why. 478 00:21:13,020 --> 00:21:16,420 Dremond's job is not to make the most amount of points. 479 00:21:16,420 --> 00:21:18,780 It's not to block the most amount of shots. 480 00:21:18,780 --> 00:21:23,580 It's not to give any tangible KPI or metric 481 00:21:23,580 --> 00:21:25,820 to justify him being on the team. 482 00:21:25,820 --> 00:21:28,420 Yes, he does do those things and have some highlight games, 483 00:21:28,420 --> 00:21:30,020 but that's not why they love Dremond. 484 00:21:30,020 --> 00:21:35,020 Dremond's job is to be mean and it is to be in the way. 485 00:21:35,140 --> 00:21:37,620 He's just supposed to get in the way and affect people 486 00:21:37,620 --> 00:21:40,940 and their mindset and he's motivates the team too. 487 00:21:40,940 --> 00:21:42,940 Don't get me wrong, he's a great basketball player, 488 00:21:42,940 --> 00:21:46,220 but the stats don't necessarily show it. 489 00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:48,620 Now your customer success manager, 490 00:21:48,620 --> 00:21:50,100 their job is not to be mean. 491 00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:52,340 It's to be the exact opposite of that. 492 00:21:52,340 --> 00:21:53,980 It's to be kind. 493 00:21:53,980 --> 00:21:55,740 It's to listen to people. 494 00:21:55,740 --> 00:21:58,300 And I'm just incredibly bought into your concept, Chris, 495 00:21:58,300 --> 00:21:59,140 if you can't tell. 496 00:21:59,140 --> 00:22:00,740 I'm like, this is huge. 497 00:22:00,740 --> 00:22:03,500 And I don't see this happen enough 498 00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:06,900 because entrepreneurs and HR departments 499 00:22:06,900 --> 00:22:09,980 are scared to bring people in that don't fit 500 00:22:09,980 --> 00:22:14,100 within the metrics within one silo department. 501 00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:14,940 Amen. 502 00:22:14,940 --> 00:22:16,700 And actually I love the fact that you brought up 503 00:22:16,700 --> 00:22:17,700 the HR departments. 504 00:22:17,700 --> 00:22:19,380 So one of my biggest issue, 505 00:22:19,380 --> 00:22:21,340 and I saw this great tweet a few weeks ago 506 00:22:21,340 --> 00:22:24,060 about the death of SaaS, which is greatly exaggerated. 507 00:22:24,060 --> 00:22:25,700 Of course it is. 508 00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:27,500 But I really loved what he was saying 509 00:22:27,500 --> 00:22:30,620 and that is people don't buy technology, 510 00:22:30,620 --> 00:22:32,020 but we sell technology 511 00:22:32,020 --> 00:22:33,940 and that's not what we should be selling. 512 00:22:33,940 --> 00:22:36,340 We should be selling the three legs of the stool, 513 00:22:36,340 --> 00:22:39,140 which is we have the people, we have the process, 514 00:22:39,140 --> 00:22:41,980 and we have the technology to make you successful. 515 00:22:41,980 --> 00:22:44,260 And it's the combination of those three. 516 00:22:44,260 --> 00:22:45,100 Here's our point. 517 00:22:45,100 --> 00:22:46,220 Can I give one more base on that? 518 00:22:46,220 --> 00:22:47,060 Go ahead, go ahead. 519 00:22:47,060 --> 00:22:48,300 I got to do the plug, brother. 520 00:22:48,300 --> 00:22:49,140 I got to. 521 00:22:49,140 --> 00:22:52,380 And that's why I named this Vision Pros, right? 522 00:22:52,380 --> 00:22:55,860 Because it's the vision that attracts those elements 523 00:22:55,860 --> 00:22:57,300 to be there in the first place. 524 00:22:57,300 --> 00:23:00,980 But that's the problem is companies assume 525 00:23:00,980 --> 00:23:02,020 they understand all, 526 00:23:02,020 --> 00:23:04,660 they just want to sell their product or service or SaaS, 527 00:23:04,660 --> 00:23:05,500 right? 528 00:23:05,500 --> 00:23:06,580 And nobody cares about that stuff. 529 00:23:06,580 --> 00:23:09,660 Not unless you have that people, that culture, 530 00:23:09,660 --> 00:23:10,820 that vision to support it. 531 00:23:10,820 --> 00:23:11,660 Go ahead. 532 00:23:11,660 --> 00:23:12,480 Yeah, I like that. 533 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,100 So you could even say that the vision is really the chair 534 00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:16,580 and the legs, right? 535 00:23:16,580 --> 00:23:19,540 The stool, the portion of that. 536 00:23:19,540 --> 00:23:21,940 Because you have to have a process. 537 00:23:21,940 --> 00:23:23,460 You have to, and it's got to be onboarding, 538 00:23:23,460 --> 00:23:24,700 it's got to be management, 539 00:23:24,700 --> 00:23:26,100 it's got to be account management. 540 00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:27,780 You have to have a process. 541 00:23:27,780 --> 00:23:29,220 You have to have the right people in place 542 00:23:29,220 --> 00:23:30,740 to make that process work. 543 00:23:30,740 --> 00:23:32,620 And then you have to have the technology. 544 00:23:32,620 --> 00:23:34,540 If you're just selling technology, 545 00:23:34,540 --> 00:23:37,420 you are selling a commodity that is replaceable. 546 00:23:37,420 --> 00:23:41,120 And that is one of my big, big true beliefs 547 00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:43,760 that if you're just selling the technology, 548 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,620 you're selling a commodity. 549 00:23:45,620 --> 00:23:48,420 And I'm not in the commodity sales game. 550 00:23:48,420 --> 00:23:50,060 I'm in the relationship game. 551 00:23:50,060 --> 00:23:52,420 I'm in the building long-term value 552 00:23:52,420 --> 00:23:54,780 and unlocking long-term value. 553 00:23:54,780 --> 00:23:57,100 And that can only be done by doing this. 554 00:23:57,100 --> 00:23:59,880 So one of my clients that I was just working with, 555 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,260 we were working on engagement and, you know, 556 00:24:03,260 --> 00:24:04,820 I think they had a client somewhere 557 00:24:04,820 --> 00:24:06,460 in the 30,000 a year range. 558 00:24:06,460 --> 00:24:10,300 And I talked about how to walk through this process. 559 00:24:10,300 --> 00:24:14,740 And we built plans around how to do some of the things 560 00:24:14,740 --> 00:24:16,380 that we just talked about. 561 00:24:16,380 --> 00:24:17,780 And over the course of six months, 562 00:24:17,780 --> 00:24:20,540 I'm pretty sure they signed the contract 563 00:24:20,540 --> 00:24:22,700 before our engagement ended, 564 00:24:24,140 --> 00:24:28,300 with greater than like an 8X size increase. 565 00:24:29,420 --> 00:24:31,180 But the thing is, to your point, Jackson, 566 00:24:31,180 --> 00:24:32,140 which I think is great, 567 00:24:32,140 --> 00:24:34,340 you said it can take about eight months. 568 00:24:34,340 --> 00:24:36,860 It took probably the full six months, right, 569 00:24:36,860 --> 00:24:39,300 for them to start to see a change in the client 570 00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:42,140 and then to start the contract negotiation 571 00:24:42,140 --> 00:24:44,420 and get that all taken care of. 572 00:24:45,620 --> 00:24:49,140 But the reality is, at a level of an investment you make, 573 00:24:50,620 --> 00:24:52,500 they actually had to bear the cost 574 00:24:52,500 --> 00:24:54,500 because there wasn't margin in the account to do that. 575 00:24:54,500 --> 00:24:56,060 And they were willing to take that risk 576 00:24:56,060 --> 00:24:57,800 because guess what? 577 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,380 Just hearing about it, 578 00:24:59,380 --> 00:25:01,700 Jackson, you can see Jackson's enthusiasm, right? 579 00:25:01,700 --> 00:25:04,220 It's like, this just makes sense. 580 00:25:04,220 --> 00:25:05,340 And if you're not doing this 581 00:25:05,340 --> 00:25:07,940 and you don't have the margin to do this, 582 00:25:07,940 --> 00:25:10,300 try it and see if you can figure out, 583 00:25:10,300 --> 00:25:11,980 because those things always happen. 584 00:25:11,980 --> 00:25:12,980 You always can. 585 00:25:12,980 --> 00:25:15,220 You cannot make your excuses, 586 00:25:15,220 --> 00:25:18,020 the reason why you don't do the right thing. 587 00:25:18,020 --> 00:25:18,860 Agreed. 588 00:25:18,860 --> 00:25:20,100 But I think the point is, 589 00:25:20,100 --> 00:25:23,440 you have to hear from your customer real words, 590 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,900 real listening, and you have to provide the value 591 00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:30,340 for them to learn about the upsell chances, right? 592 00:25:30,340 --> 00:25:33,300 Or to learn about the expansionary chances, 593 00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:35,980 or to build something tailored and custom to them. 594 00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:39,460 And I think a lot of times people hear like, 595 00:25:39,460 --> 00:25:41,380 hey, they wanna have super high margins 596 00:25:41,380 --> 00:25:43,660 because SaaS is great, which guess what? 597 00:25:43,660 --> 00:25:45,900 Service companies have been the bread and butter 598 00:25:45,900 --> 00:25:47,400 of America for a long time. 599 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,440 SaaS has been around for what, 30 years? 600 00:25:50,940 --> 00:25:55,940 So it's, service is not a bad or dirty word, 601 00:25:56,340 --> 00:25:59,100 but you can lump it into a recurring contract 602 00:25:59,100 --> 00:26:02,380 and extract some of that value from a multiple perspective, 603 00:26:02,380 --> 00:26:04,100 if that's what you're worried about, 604 00:26:04,100 --> 00:26:07,520 by saying, hey, we're gonna sell you the software, 605 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:12,420 it's 10 grand a year, but in that 10 grand, 606 00:26:12,420 --> 00:26:14,580 I'm making up the numbers because it doesn't matter, 607 00:26:14,580 --> 00:26:17,860 you're gonna get a hundred hours of customization, 608 00:26:17,860 --> 00:26:21,220 or training, or support, or whatever thing. 609 00:26:21,220 --> 00:26:23,780 You can just make it part of the software bundle 610 00:26:23,780 --> 00:26:26,780 that they have some labor that's associated with it. 611 00:26:26,780 --> 00:26:31,520 So that way you're developing and providing the solution, 612 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,940 and you're not worried about margin counting necessarily. 613 00:26:36,540 --> 00:26:39,460 I mean, I will say, if a company attempts 614 00:26:39,460 --> 00:26:42,380 to go this route half-heartedly, they're gonna burn. 615 00:26:43,300 --> 00:26:44,260 It's not gonna work. 616 00:26:44,260 --> 00:26:47,180 You have to be willing to actually listen 617 00:26:47,180 --> 00:26:50,460 and implement this with, it's a fall of faith 618 00:26:50,460 --> 00:26:51,780 that you take when you do this, 619 00:26:51,780 --> 00:26:53,940 you can't do it half-heartedly, it will not work. 620 00:26:53,940 --> 00:26:56,660 And here, I'm gonna give a couple of examples. 621 00:26:56,660 --> 00:26:57,900 Is that cool with you? 622 00:26:57,900 --> 00:27:02,380 Yeah, I'd love to agree and disagree with you in a second. 623 00:27:02,380 --> 00:27:04,820 Sweet, I'm down with that, always. 624 00:27:04,820 --> 00:27:07,580 So two of the companies that I see implementing 625 00:27:07,580 --> 00:27:12,580 this style of training and growth are Trainual, 626 00:27:12,900 --> 00:27:17,380 T-R-A-I-N-U-A-L.com, they do a phenomenal job 627 00:27:17,380 --> 00:27:21,180 of building out a support process that is wicked cool, 628 00:27:21,180 --> 00:27:23,420 and a vision for what it is that they're doing. 629 00:27:23,420 --> 00:27:27,300 And you can just tell they have that success manager 630 00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:28,900 built into the process by the way 631 00:27:28,900 --> 00:27:30,540 they onboard the new clients. 632 00:27:30,540 --> 00:27:33,060 One company that I see stepping up in this regard 633 00:27:33,060 --> 00:27:36,220 and kind of making new moves is Canva. 634 00:27:36,220 --> 00:27:38,260 Canva's got commercials coming out like crazy 635 00:27:38,260 --> 00:27:41,420 on YouTube and on TV, and you can just see, again, 636 00:27:41,420 --> 00:27:44,180 the dedication to focus in their culture. 637 00:27:44,180 --> 00:27:46,780 But you can also visually watch the expansion 638 00:27:46,780 --> 00:27:49,100 of these brands over time because of what's happening. 639 00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:53,940 Now, I saw another company that was failing miserably 640 00:27:53,940 --> 00:27:56,580 to implement a client success, and they needed one. 641 00:27:56,580 --> 00:27:59,100 They did not have one, they had these silo problems, 642 00:27:59,100 --> 00:28:02,460 and the company was named Traffic and Funnels. 643 00:28:02,460 --> 00:28:06,940 And Traffic and Funnels was run by some very, very smart, 644 00:28:06,940 --> 00:28:09,780 very good leaders in the world. 645 00:28:09,780 --> 00:28:11,340 I tend to think they are. 646 00:28:11,340 --> 00:28:15,140 And at the same time, the customer service was abysmal. 647 00:28:15,140 --> 00:28:15,980 It was awful. 648 00:28:15,980 --> 00:28:19,300 And they brought in somebody who I feel like did 649 00:28:19,300 --> 00:28:24,300 the best job they could as a client success manager, 650 00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:29,020 given that the existing culture did not respect 651 00:28:29,020 --> 00:28:31,020 the reality of a client success manager. 652 00:28:31,020 --> 00:28:32,380 And that was Tyler Chambliss. 653 00:28:32,380 --> 00:28:34,820 She did a phenomenal job of coming in 654 00:28:34,820 --> 00:28:38,940 and trying to right the ship, but she did it alone. 655 00:28:38,940 --> 00:28:40,740 And it became more and more obvious. 656 00:28:40,740 --> 00:28:42,420 And I was just a client of theirs, right? 657 00:28:42,420 --> 00:28:44,380 So I wasn't a consultant with them 658 00:28:44,380 --> 00:28:46,860 and I worked behind the scenes, but you can see certain things 659 00:28:46,860 --> 00:28:48,980 unfold, especially as an entrepreneur. 660 00:28:48,980 --> 00:28:51,580 Like, you just have the ability to know, oh, red flags here 661 00:28:51,580 --> 00:28:52,620 and there and there. 662 00:28:52,620 --> 00:28:59,100 But I watched her try so hard to go all in as the client success 663 00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:02,780 manager, and I could see that the feedback we were giving, 664 00:29:02,780 --> 00:29:05,220 the community was giving, it was all on a Facebook group 665 00:29:05,220 --> 00:29:06,540 where you could see what was happening. 666 00:29:06,540 --> 00:29:09,180 It was pretty obvious that she had almost no support 667 00:29:09,180 --> 00:29:11,500 in the process of delivering. 668 00:29:11,500 --> 00:29:14,340 Granted, she did certainly make waves 669 00:29:14,340 --> 00:29:16,860 that provided an improvement to what they did. 670 00:29:16,860 --> 00:29:18,980 But I have to digress on that. 671 00:29:18,980 --> 00:29:21,980 I don't feel like they adopted fully or came even close. 672 00:29:21,980 --> 00:29:25,460 And I would say the proof is that they no longer exist. 673 00:29:25,460 --> 00:29:26,660 The brand got shut down. 674 00:29:26,660 --> 00:29:27,780 It's gone. 675 00:29:27,780 --> 00:29:30,220 So those are the three different elements. 676 00:29:30,220 --> 00:29:32,060 I just want if you're going to do this, 677 00:29:32,060 --> 00:29:34,580 don't go in as the doubting Thomas. 678 00:29:34,580 --> 00:29:36,020 I don't think you're going to win 679 00:29:36,020 --> 00:29:37,580 if you go in with extreme doubts. 680 00:29:37,580 --> 00:29:39,580 You're going to self-sabotage the experience, 681 00:29:39,580 --> 00:29:40,100 in my opinion. 682 00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:41,540 But Chris, hit it. 683 00:29:41,540 --> 00:29:43,260 What do you feel is wrong about that, 684 00:29:43,260 --> 00:29:45,180 and what can you add to it? 685 00:29:45,180 --> 00:29:46,860 I was going to say, I agree and disagree. 686 00:29:46,860 --> 00:29:48,860 You can't do it half-heartedly. 687 00:29:48,860 --> 00:29:51,420 However, you can organizationally 688 00:29:51,420 --> 00:29:52,260 do it half-heartedly. 689 00:29:52,260 --> 00:29:55,060 And what I mean by that is you don't have to deploy it 690 00:29:55,060 --> 00:29:56,740 to all your accounts. 691 00:29:56,740 --> 00:29:59,180 In fact, there should be a gating mechanism 692 00:29:59,180 --> 00:30:02,300 that says only accounts that meet this threshold 693 00:30:02,300 --> 00:30:03,820 should get this. 694 00:30:03,820 --> 00:30:06,620 But when you first start, you can literally 695 00:30:06,620 --> 00:30:10,740 pick a single account and say, I can make the investment 696 00:30:10,740 --> 00:30:13,420 for a single account because this is my most important 697 00:30:13,420 --> 00:30:16,660 account already, and I want them to be happy. 698 00:30:16,660 --> 00:30:18,980 So that is the half-hearted. 699 00:30:18,980 --> 00:30:21,300 You can't do it in a single account half-hearted, 700 00:30:21,300 --> 00:30:23,780 but you can do one account instead of 50 accounts. 701 00:30:23,780 --> 00:30:26,260 That's semantics. 702 00:30:26,260 --> 00:30:28,900 Because I think you're going wholeheartedly 703 00:30:28,900 --> 00:30:30,900 for that one account. 704 00:30:30,900 --> 00:30:34,500 But you're not investing in the scale of the experience yet, 705 00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:35,100 which I love. 706 00:30:35,100 --> 00:30:37,740 That's a great point that sometimes we 707 00:30:37,740 --> 00:30:40,180 try to eat the whole elephant at once. 708 00:30:40,180 --> 00:30:42,820 You got to eat one elephant one bite at a time. 709 00:30:42,820 --> 00:30:45,540 Yeah, one bite at a time. 710 00:30:45,540 --> 00:30:46,300 I like that. 711 00:30:46,300 --> 00:30:47,900 You got to eat it one bite at a time. 712 00:30:47,900 --> 00:30:48,900 I couldn't agree more. 713 00:30:48,900 --> 00:30:50,980 And I really, in fact, that's one of the things 714 00:30:50,980 --> 00:30:54,660 that I would suggest frequently is starting with one 715 00:30:54,660 --> 00:30:57,980 to three accounts that are the most important to a small 716 00:30:57,980 --> 00:31:00,060 company and a gating. 717 00:31:00,060 --> 00:31:01,460 A lot of companies that are going 718 00:31:01,460 --> 00:31:02,820 to be north of 10 million, they're 719 00:31:02,820 --> 00:31:05,220 going to have parts of these processes in place. 720 00:31:05,220 --> 00:31:07,820 But it's those companies that are not 1 to 10 million range 721 00:31:07,820 --> 00:31:10,660 that haven't really figured out the scaling that 722 00:31:10,660 --> 00:31:13,140 benefit the most from putting this stuff together. 723 00:31:13,140 --> 00:31:15,500 I heard it called the seven-figure desert, 724 00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:17,140 and it made me chuckle. 725 00:31:17,140 --> 00:31:19,300 In a room alone, I was like, oh my gosh, 726 00:31:19,300 --> 00:31:23,260 that is so incredibly accurate. 727 00:31:23,260 --> 00:31:27,740 So Chris, let's dive in to the next principle. 728 00:31:27,740 --> 00:31:29,180 In fact, I'll show this on my screen. 729 00:31:29,180 --> 00:31:30,220 We'll skip a couple questions. 730 00:31:30,220 --> 00:31:31,340 We might come back to them. 731 00:31:31,340 --> 00:31:34,420 But the next question is, what can other visionaries learn 732 00:31:34,420 --> 00:31:37,540 from your experience and trying to implement 733 00:31:37,540 --> 00:31:39,020 this within your brands? 734 00:31:39,020 --> 00:31:41,980 Your brands are a bit smaller than the, I think, 735 00:31:41,980 --> 00:31:42,620 the 10,000. 736 00:31:42,620 --> 00:31:45,020 I don't think you have 10,000 clients at Kilofeet, 737 00:31:45,020 --> 00:31:46,780 but I might be wrong. 738 00:31:46,780 --> 00:31:50,380 No, I'm on the real small side now, 739 00:31:50,380 --> 00:31:54,820 since I'm now a solopreneur consultant. 740 00:31:54,820 --> 00:31:59,460 But what can other visionaries learn from the experience? 741 00:31:59,460 --> 00:32:04,580 So cliche, but it's like, if you really, truly build 742 00:32:04,580 --> 00:32:09,620 relationships with people, you will truly have a better 743 00:32:09,620 --> 00:32:10,300 business. 744 00:32:10,300 --> 00:32:12,820 If you truly care about people, you will truly 745 00:32:12,820 --> 00:32:15,020 have a better business. 746 00:32:15,020 --> 00:32:20,540 For our largest clients, we had a monthly review 747 00:32:20,540 --> 00:32:25,300 with the champion, but we were on site typically 748 00:32:25,300 --> 00:32:27,180 at least once a quarter with them, 749 00:32:27,180 --> 00:32:29,380 or they were at our office once a quarter. 750 00:32:29,380 --> 00:32:33,540 And we were having working sessions with them 751 00:32:33,540 --> 00:32:36,900 very frequently, where we're diving in deep, 752 00:32:36,900 --> 00:32:40,100 and we're listening, and we're trying to understand them. 753 00:32:40,100 --> 00:32:45,660 It's just caring about people is good business. 754 00:32:45,660 --> 00:32:48,460 And that's probably the most powerful lesson 755 00:32:48,460 --> 00:32:52,700 that I could say is caring is good business. 756 00:32:52,700 --> 00:32:56,620 Yeah, I think that's, you can call it cliche. 757 00:32:56,620 --> 00:32:59,060 I think it's fundamental. 758 00:32:59,060 --> 00:33:02,780 And as a Spurs fan watching boring Tim Duncan my whole life, 759 00:33:02,780 --> 00:33:06,620 who's the big fundamental, that's what we love. 760 00:33:06,620 --> 00:33:07,700 That's what I'm all about. 761 00:33:07,700 --> 00:33:10,780 So somebody doesn't get that, I'm sorry for you. 762 00:33:10,780 --> 00:33:15,220 Moving on to a darker subject, what is your worst business 763 00:33:15,220 --> 00:33:16,860 experience ever? 764 00:33:16,860 --> 00:33:23,300 Well, after my first company scaled and we did exit, 765 00:33:23,300 --> 00:33:27,340 I joined a B2C company my first time. 766 00:33:27,340 --> 00:33:31,820 So one, not a big B2C fan, at least now. 767 00:33:31,820 --> 00:33:37,420 But two, we went through the Apple advertising fiasco 768 00:33:37,420 --> 00:33:39,220 and the privacy settings and all of that, 769 00:33:39,220 --> 00:33:42,420 and our cost acquisition like 10x in 30 days, 770 00:33:42,420 --> 00:33:46,300 which fundamentally broke the unit economics because we 771 00:33:46,300 --> 00:33:47,780 weren't a funded organization. 772 00:33:47,780 --> 00:33:49,980 I've always worked at bootstrapped organizations. 773 00:33:49,980 --> 00:33:52,220 I've always worked for smaller companies. 774 00:33:52,220 --> 00:33:55,100 And so it burned a little bit of our cash 775 00:33:55,100 --> 00:34:00,100 and was not a fun experience going through something 776 00:34:00,100 --> 00:34:03,700 like that where an outside market issue can really 777 00:34:03,700 --> 00:34:08,540 affect you in a fundamental way in a very short period of time. 778 00:34:08,540 --> 00:34:09,580 Absolutely. 779 00:34:09,580 --> 00:34:12,660 That's one of the interesting things about COVID 780 00:34:12,660 --> 00:34:16,980 is that it, in some respects, created a bit of unity 781 00:34:16,980 --> 00:34:20,180 and humility for everybody to understand that. 782 00:34:20,180 --> 00:34:25,020 There are external factors that can crush your hopes 783 00:34:25,020 --> 00:34:29,540 and dreams if you haven't factored in all 784 00:34:29,540 --> 00:34:32,140 the potential risks that exist in the world, which 785 00:34:32,140 --> 00:34:33,540 is impossible. 786 00:34:33,540 --> 00:34:36,940 I think it's fairly impossible to factor in every risk. 787 00:34:36,940 --> 00:34:40,220 But all the more reason to make sure your building would 788 00:34:40,220 --> 00:34:43,820 sound cliches, or I mean fundamentals. 789 00:34:43,820 --> 00:34:46,380 So what's your best experience in business? 790 00:34:49,980 --> 00:34:52,380 You know, taking the first company I worked at, 791 00:34:52,380 --> 00:34:55,900 you know, I started there, there was like 18 people. 792 00:34:55,900 --> 00:34:59,940 When I left, I don't know, maybe there was 80 or 100 people. 793 00:34:59,940 --> 00:35:04,100 And they were purchased by a PE firm. 794 00:35:04,100 --> 00:35:07,540 And the PE firm had started buying three or four 795 00:35:07,540 --> 00:35:09,460 other companies and merging them altogether. 796 00:35:09,460 --> 00:35:12,660 But going through the process of taking a relatively small 797 00:35:12,660 --> 00:35:17,580 company that was older in terms of the way it functioned 798 00:35:17,580 --> 00:35:20,020 and helping transition them to SAS, 799 00:35:20,020 --> 00:35:25,660 and really build a long-term sustainable, scalable, 800 00:35:25,660 --> 00:35:28,220 recurring revenue-based business model. 801 00:35:28,220 --> 00:35:29,460 Which by the way, besides margin, 802 00:35:29,460 --> 00:35:31,860 recurring revenue is everything. 803 00:35:31,860 --> 00:35:36,420 So that was the best experience for me. 804 00:35:36,420 --> 00:35:40,660 But it was over a long 13, 14 year period. 805 00:35:40,660 --> 00:35:42,380 But the fundamentals of recurring revenue 806 00:35:42,380 --> 00:35:44,780 has stuck with me as well. 807 00:35:44,780 --> 00:35:46,820 Yeah, good for you. 808 00:35:46,820 --> 00:35:50,300 I think that's also extremely helpful. 809 00:35:50,300 --> 00:35:51,900 I can relate to your background on that. 810 00:35:51,900 --> 00:35:56,460 It's fun to see whether I work with them or not, 811 00:35:56,460 --> 00:35:58,420 whether they hate me or not. 812 00:35:58,420 --> 00:35:59,940 I have some of those in the past too. 813 00:35:59,940 --> 00:36:02,700 What's fun to see is most of the businesses that I've worked 814 00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:05,420 with are still operating to this day. 815 00:36:05,420 --> 00:36:09,740 And they are doing better than during the time 816 00:36:09,740 --> 00:36:10,820 where we work together. 817 00:36:10,820 --> 00:36:12,740 And I got to be part of that scale process 818 00:36:12,740 --> 00:36:14,020 and that foundational process. 819 00:36:14,020 --> 00:36:15,900 So it is. 820 00:36:15,900 --> 00:36:16,660 It's exciting. 821 00:36:16,660 --> 00:36:20,660 And it's like, how do you not want more of that? 822 00:36:20,660 --> 00:36:24,500 So I got the startup addict thing in me as well. 823 00:36:24,500 --> 00:36:27,260 Well, I love relationships, as you can clearly 824 00:36:27,260 --> 00:36:28,620 tell from all my conversations. 825 00:36:28,620 --> 00:36:30,340 And I worked there for 13 years. 826 00:36:30,340 --> 00:36:32,860 So most of the people were there before I 827 00:36:32,860 --> 00:36:34,220 started dating my wife. 828 00:36:34,220 --> 00:36:38,380 Most of them were there helping me plan the proposal. 829 00:36:38,380 --> 00:36:40,460 They all came to my wedding. 830 00:36:40,460 --> 00:36:44,260 They were there when I had my daughter. 831 00:36:44,260 --> 00:36:47,700 So it's always building the relationships 832 00:36:47,700 --> 00:36:49,700 is not just with your clients, but it's also 833 00:36:49,700 --> 00:36:51,780 with your coworkers. 834 00:36:51,780 --> 00:36:54,660 Which I think that was a huge part of the reason why 835 00:36:54,660 --> 00:36:57,740 that it was such a good experience for me. 836 00:36:57,740 --> 00:36:59,980 And one of the sad things to happen out of COVID 837 00:36:59,980 --> 00:37:05,380 is the loss of some of that deeper relationship function 838 00:37:05,380 --> 00:37:07,340 inside of the work environment. 839 00:37:07,340 --> 00:37:09,220 Absolutely. 840 00:37:09,220 --> 00:37:10,660 There is a contrast. 841 00:37:10,660 --> 00:37:13,260 I had to learn that over time. 842 00:37:13,260 --> 00:37:17,700 So I wasn't gifted with that mindset. 843 00:37:17,700 --> 00:37:20,140 And I didn't do what I needed to do 844 00:37:20,140 --> 00:37:23,180 to earn that mindset in my earlier years 845 00:37:23,180 --> 00:37:26,460 of running companies. 846 00:37:26,460 --> 00:37:28,140 I don't want to say it was transactional, 847 00:37:28,140 --> 00:37:30,140 but I just wasn't quite aware of all the things 848 00:37:30,140 --> 00:37:34,140 that one should do to respect, foster, cultivate, build 849 00:37:34,140 --> 00:37:36,140 your relationships with people. 850 00:37:36,140 --> 00:37:39,420 So given that you've been working on that for so long, 851 00:37:39,420 --> 00:37:45,220 what are some of the key aspects of building 852 00:37:45,220 --> 00:37:48,020 a strong relationship, a healthy relationship with your peers 853 00:37:48,020 --> 00:37:48,660 and your clients? 854 00:37:51,740 --> 00:37:53,860 I'm going to go back to fundamentals. 855 00:37:53,860 --> 00:37:56,740 The number one fundamental that I believe everything 856 00:37:56,740 --> 00:38:02,580 is based off of is setting accurate expectations 857 00:38:02,580 --> 00:38:06,140 and then communicating against those expectations. 858 00:38:06,140 --> 00:38:08,020 We said we were going to do x. 859 00:38:08,020 --> 00:38:09,100 We did y. 860 00:38:09,100 --> 00:38:11,980 Here's how we went above and beyond. 861 00:38:11,980 --> 00:38:15,420 Or unfortunately, here's how we missed. 862 00:38:15,420 --> 00:38:18,940 And this is how we're going to remediate it. 863 00:38:18,940 --> 00:38:24,180 So just having good quality conversations, 864 00:38:24,180 --> 00:38:27,180 just having good quality communications, 865 00:38:27,180 --> 00:38:31,620 but they're all predicated upon a basic fundamental of what 866 00:38:31,620 --> 00:38:35,140 is the expectation of our relationship. 867 00:38:35,140 --> 00:38:37,100 And obviously, we're talking primarily now 868 00:38:37,100 --> 00:38:38,820 on the client relationship. 869 00:38:38,820 --> 00:38:41,180 But it's also true of personal relationships and even 870 00:38:41,180 --> 00:38:43,180 business relationships with coworkers. 871 00:38:43,180 --> 00:38:47,380 What is my expectation of you? 872 00:38:47,380 --> 00:38:49,540 Or what is your expectation of me? 873 00:38:49,540 --> 00:38:52,900 And how we need to communicate when we go above or beyond 874 00:38:52,900 --> 00:38:55,060 or when we go under. 875 00:38:55,060 --> 00:38:57,340 And we need to figure out ways of fixing that. 876 00:38:57,340 --> 00:38:59,380 It's just basics. 877 00:38:59,380 --> 00:39:01,780 But the basics of that communication 878 00:39:01,780 --> 00:39:04,220 will take you so, so far. 879 00:39:04,220 --> 00:39:04,820 Yes. 880 00:39:04,820 --> 00:39:08,980 And I want to work with you on this live, 881 00:39:08,980 --> 00:39:12,940 because I've got a different paradigm. 882 00:39:12,940 --> 00:39:13,660 Go ahead. 883 00:39:13,660 --> 00:39:19,060 And my paradigm is less common in the world. 884 00:39:19,060 --> 00:39:22,900 So it makes for an interesting reality. 885 00:39:22,900 --> 00:39:25,220 I cannot agree with you more about the setting 886 00:39:25,220 --> 00:39:29,140 accurate expectations part as something that truly helps 887 00:39:29,140 --> 00:39:30,700 most relationships in this world. 888 00:39:30,700 --> 00:39:37,380 And I, on the flip side, I believe expectations are of ice. 889 00:39:37,380 --> 00:39:38,660 I believe expectations. 890 00:39:38,660 --> 00:39:39,940 I love what Shakespeare said. 891 00:39:39,940 --> 00:39:42,860 Expectations are the root of all heartache. 892 00:39:42,860 --> 00:39:45,420 And I've felt that very, very deeply. 893 00:39:45,420 --> 00:39:48,060 So I believe in aspirations. 894 00:39:48,060 --> 00:39:50,300 And I believe we should definitely aspire 895 00:39:50,300 --> 00:39:51,220 to get things done. 896 00:39:51,220 --> 00:39:54,260 And we should make space at the same time for the fact 897 00:39:54,260 --> 00:39:57,140 that life doesn't usually go perfectly. 898 00:39:57,140 --> 00:40:01,340 And so there's a lot of mercy baked into my belief set 899 00:40:01,340 --> 00:40:03,660 and a lot of forgiveness baked into it. 900 00:40:03,660 --> 00:40:06,820 I also see a lot of people torture themselves 901 00:40:06,820 --> 00:40:11,180 in life over trying to achieve expectations for somebody else 902 00:40:11,180 --> 00:40:13,220 in order to kind of people please them. 903 00:40:13,220 --> 00:40:16,540 And there's this middle ground that exists in all this. 904 00:40:16,540 --> 00:40:17,980 And there's a lot of ideas. 905 00:40:17,980 --> 00:40:22,820 But I would rather work with somebody 906 00:40:22,820 --> 00:40:25,940 who abides by great principles myself 907 00:40:25,940 --> 00:40:27,180 and not even worry. 908 00:40:27,180 --> 00:40:28,820 I don't worry about the expectation. 909 00:40:28,820 --> 00:40:31,220 I worry about the aspiration of what we're headed towards. 910 00:40:31,220 --> 00:40:33,140 And as long as they're showing up and providing 911 00:40:33,140 --> 00:40:37,180 the fundamentals of success, then aspiration to me 912 00:40:37,180 --> 00:40:42,180 is just a healthier way of quantifying an expectation. 913 00:40:42,180 --> 00:40:43,980 But I'm not going to be mad at you at the end 914 00:40:43,980 --> 00:40:46,500 because I know that as long as you did your part, 915 00:40:46,500 --> 00:40:47,660 we're good to go. 916 00:40:47,660 --> 00:40:50,380 But that doesn't work in a world where expectations 917 00:40:50,380 --> 00:40:52,100 dominate business. 918 00:40:52,100 --> 00:40:53,540 It doesn't always work that well. 919 00:40:53,540 --> 00:40:55,580 So I would love your thoughts on that. 920 00:40:55,580 --> 00:40:59,820 Well, one, my gut reaction is I love it. 921 00:40:59,820 --> 00:41:02,380 And I would have loved to have been a situation where clients 922 00:41:02,380 --> 00:41:05,180 were that flexible and generous. 923 00:41:05,180 --> 00:41:07,820 But I think the reality is, especially 924 00:41:07,820 --> 00:41:11,180 if you start targeting Fortune 500 or larger enterprises, 925 00:41:11,180 --> 00:41:13,460 enterprise software has a lot of value. 926 00:41:13,460 --> 00:41:16,340 But it comes with expectations. 927 00:41:16,340 --> 00:41:19,780 Delivery by this time period and this time period or this. 928 00:41:19,780 --> 00:41:22,420 And there's quarterly results that they care about. 929 00:41:22,420 --> 00:41:25,260 And there's just some realities of business 930 00:41:25,260 --> 00:41:27,700 where expectations become important. 931 00:41:27,700 --> 00:41:31,340 However, I think part of that relationship structure 932 00:41:31,340 --> 00:41:36,180 that we're talking about is the flexibility of communicating. 933 00:41:36,180 --> 00:41:38,900 And it's not that it is transactional in nature. 934 00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:41,140 But if you go above and beyond a bunch of times 935 00:41:41,140 --> 00:41:44,340 and then you miss a couple of times, 936 00:41:44,340 --> 00:41:47,700 your relationship has built up enough to survive that. 937 00:41:50,780 --> 00:41:52,660 And by the way, communicating early and often 938 00:41:52,660 --> 00:41:54,100 is the most important thing. 939 00:41:54,100 --> 00:41:56,660 If you know you're not going to deliver by Friday, 940 00:41:56,660 --> 00:42:01,580 tell them on Monday, don't wait until Friday to not deliver it. 941 00:42:01,580 --> 00:42:03,860 And so part of that is setting expectations 942 00:42:03,860 --> 00:42:06,380 and communicating around that. 943 00:42:06,380 --> 00:42:08,580 I think it's a reality business. 944 00:42:08,580 --> 00:42:14,500 Probably internally, if you have the luxury or the grace 945 00:42:14,500 --> 00:42:16,700 to be able to do it internally to your coworkers, 946 00:42:16,700 --> 00:42:18,500 absolutely aspirations. 947 00:42:18,500 --> 00:42:20,900 If you're talking about family and friends, aspirations, 948 00:42:20,900 --> 00:42:23,020 I would say 100%. 949 00:42:23,020 --> 00:42:26,260 I don't know if I could get it. 950 00:42:26,260 --> 00:42:29,540 It would certainly be harder to sell a system around aspirations 951 00:42:29,540 --> 00:42:34,060 and sort of guarantee success. 952 00:42:34,060 --> 00:42:38,060 Expectations become a reality for a lot of companies. 953 00:42:38,060 --> 00:42:38,780 Right. 954 00:42:38,780 --> 00:42:40,460 Yeah, I look at guaranteed success, 955 00:42:40,460 --> 00:42:44,060 and I look at COVID or the Titanic and think, yeah, 956 00:42:44,060 --> 00:42:46,540 look at how far that got you. 957 00:42:46,540 --> 00:42:50,020 So it's but I'm with you on it. 958 00:42:50,020 --> 00:42:54,300 And it's funny because you taught me something super valuable. 959 00:42:54,300 --> 00:42:57,340 And that's that you have to know your audience, right? 960 00:42:57,340 --> 00:42:59,500 And the different factors of the audience. 961 00:42:59,500 --> 00:43:02,660 And you might have certain relationship rules 962 00:43:02,660 --> 00:43:05,260 and boundaries with different entities in your life 963 00:43:05,260 --> 00:43:06,420 than with others. 964 00:43:06,420 --> 00:43:10,180 If you want to be an expansive influence, for instance, 965 00:43:10,180 --> 00:43:14,260 then you've got to be willing to tolerate things that may not 966 00:43:14,260 --> 00:43:17,180 be part of your core. 967 00:43:17,180 --> 00:43:19,900 Tolerate conversations that may not be conversations 968 00:43:19,900 --> 00:43:22,260 you want to have. 969 00:43:22,260 --> 00:43:24,580 And so I'm grateful because I can 970 00:43:24,580 --> 00:43:29,580 see that for the scale of first class business, for instance, 971 00:43:29,580 --> 00:43:31,780 for a scaled market and a message where 972 00:43:31,780 --> 00:43:36,940 we don't get to educate people right away on aspirations, 973 00:43:36,940 --> 00:43:39,620 it's important for that product or service 974 00:43:39,620 --> 00:43:43,180 to meet the demand of expectations. 975 00:43:43,180 --> 00:43:47,020 But those people can be nurtured through a process 976 00:43:47,020 --> 00:43:49,740 of inspiration that creates a conditioning 977 00:43:49,740 --> 00:43:55,140 for them to start moving towards a lifestyle aspirations. 978 00:43:55,140 --> 00:43:56,580 And I do think there are clients, 979 00:43:56,580 --> 00:43:59,100 there are companies out there, great companies, Fortune 500. 980 00:43:59,100 --> 00:44:03,060 I would say MindBody is a great example of a scaled out company 981 00:44:03,060 --> 00:44:06,300 that from what I've seen, does a pretty great job of gearing 982 00:44:06,300 --> 00:44:08,620 towards aspirations versus expectations. 983 00:44:08,620 --> 00:44:11,660 And Jake Larson at VideoPower, I was grateful for him as a leader. 984 00:44:11,660 --> 00:44:13,660 That guy did such an excellent job 985 00:44:13,660 --> 00:44:17,660 of helping everybody understand aspirations. 986 00:44:17,660 --> 00:44:19,140 But it's a little bit more rare. 987 00:44:19,140 --> 00:44:20,460 You have to be more patient. 988 00:44:20,460 --> 00:44:21,260 I would agree. 989 00:44:21,260 --> 00:44:24,500 But I think to pick on two companies we talked about 990 00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:26,860 earlier, Walmart and Apple, they're 991 00:44:26,860 --> 00:44:29,060 polar opposite companies. 992 00:44:29,060 --> 00:44:32,180 But neither they're both massively expectation 993 00:44:32,180 --> 00:44:36,220 and deadline and high quality outcomes based. 994 00:44:36,220 --> 00:44:38,220 I don't think you would ever get either of those 995 00:44:38,220 --> 00:44:40,700 to be aspirational in nature. 996 00:44:40,700 --> 00:44:43,140 That would be like, don't challenge somebody 997 00:44:43,140 --> 00:44:44,820 who's a contrarian to go after that. 998 00:44:44,820 --> 00:44:48,460 But yeah, that would be a very big uphill battle. 999 00:44:48,460 --> 00:44:51,020 All right, Jackson, I want to see on your next episode 1000 00:44:51,020 --> 00:44:53,780 how you've changed Apple. 1001 00:44:53,780 --> 00:44:54,340 Right. 1002 00:44:54,340 --> 00:44:56,460 I'd have to use Apple first. 1003 00:44:56,460 --> 00:45:00,100 But I don't like crappy software, so I don't use it. 1004 00:45:00,100 --> 00:45:03,020 Oh. 1005 00:45:03,020 --> 00:45:04,100 I'm hanging up now. 1006 00:45:04,100 --> 00:45:05,420 You're hanging up on me. 1007 00:45:05,420 --> 00:45:06,700 All right. 1008 00:45:06,700 --> 00:45:07,820 Chris, this was awesome. 1009 00:45:07,820 --> 00:45:11,380 And Vision Pros, if you have any questions for either one of us 1010 00:45:11,380 --> 00:45:14,500 about product scale, if you want to know more 1011 00:45:14,500 --> 00:45:17,100 about Chris's companies, we'll have those links 1012 00:45:17,100 --> 00:45:17,780 in the show notes. 1013 00:45:17,780 --> 00:45:19,860 Cynthia's done a great job of sharing those as well 1014 00:45:19,860 --> 00:45:21,340 in the comments. 1015 00:45:21,340 --> 00:45:24,180 So we thank her for her support on this episode. 1016 00:45:24,180 --> 00:45:26,540 And Chris, what's the best way for people to reach out 1017 00:45:26,540 --> 00:45:28,060 and get in touch with you? 1018 00:45:28,060 --> 00:45:32,580 On kilofeet.com, I do have a thing 1019 00:45:32,580 --> 00:45:35,900 where people can sign up and just start a chat. 1020 00:45:35,900 --> 00:45:39,140 And we can talk to each other and see if we can help each other. 1021 00:45:39,140 --> 00:45:39,940 Awesome. 1022 00:45:39,940 --> 00:45:40,460 Absolutely. 1023 00:45:40,460 --> 00:45:42,300 Well, Chris, you've been an excellent guest. 1024 00:45:42,300 --> 00:45:43,700 I appreciate you being on the show. 1025 00:45:43,700 --> 00:45:46,420 And Vision Pros, thank you so much for being here today. 1026 00:45:46,420 --> 00:45:48,260 We will see you on the next episode. 1027 00:45:48,260 --> 00:45:49,300 Take care, everybody. 1028 00:45:49,300 --> 00:45:50,740 Thank you for being here today. 1029 00:45:50,740 --> 00:45:53,220 I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. 1030 00:45:53,220 --> 00:45:55,860 I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions 1031 00:45:55,860 --> 00:45:58,180 as these episodes continue to move forward. 1032 00:45:58,180 --> 00:45:59,860 This is going to get more and more fun. 1033 00:45:59,860 --> 00:46:01,740 We'll have more and more engagement as well. 1034 00:46:01,740 --> 00:46:03,780 We'll invite people to participate in the show. 1035 00:46:03,780 --> 00:46:06,140 And thank you for giving us your time and attention. 1036 00:46:06,140 --> 00:46:16,780 Have an excellent time.