lead with awesome success and confidence.
I love it.
This is going to be a phenomenal interview.
Um, so it is, I mean, this is
all right.
Welcome in.
I'm trying to make sure that
entrepreneurs live.
With Jackson Calame, I'm your show host.
We'll be doing interviews for visionary
entrepreneurs and guest leaders who are
building fantastic visions out there.
What's up and welcome into vision pros live.
I'm your show host, Jackson Calame, founder
and CEO of first class business.
And, uh, without further ado, let's dive
into these sponsorships.
So epiphany, uh, and converge both companies
of Rick Meekins, fantastic company to work
with if you're looking for proposals, rather
if you're looking for help with your
systems, uh, the architecture of those
systems and how they relate together and,
and work together to make sure that you
are operating at max capacity, um,
organizing and juggling 30 or more
employees and contractors.
And, uh, Rick is a great friend of mine.
He's also a phenomenal business owner and
really good at putting together scope of
works that help, um, small medium sized
businesses advance their visions further
and faster.
Um, able health.us as well.
Dr. Seth Yates, um, big shout out to him.
He is a naturopath.
He's a great friend of mine.
One thing I don't talk about is his
musician capabilities.
He's actually got a band, um, and is
extremely talented.
He's one of the most diverse people
that I've ever met.
One of those unicorns that seems to be
able to just be greeted at all the things
that I've seen him do in life.
Um, so sure.
He's has it, has his flaws.
I haven't seen them yet, but what that
means for you and I from an able health
dot us perspective is, um, we've got
somebody who's got a very good balance
in terms of how he approaches a healthy
lifestyle.
And so the types of supplements that he
recommends, uh, his approach to exercise
and nutrition, um, is one that I have
extreme confidence in and that's why I'm
grateful to call him one of my greatest
friends.
Um, so the, uh, other opportunity here
that I never want to forget talking
about is the water project, um, and
giving people the opportunity to invest
in, um, you know, something that means
more to, um, other human beings out
there, uh, that, you know, you can
change a life because you can save a
life.
Um, and, uh, we're over in, over in
Africa right now, there's a lot of
villages that don't have access to clean
drinking water.
They have to walk for miles to get
access to unsanitary drinking water,
even just to survive.
You can imagine the health crisis that
that costs, um, that we don't have to
deal with on a regular basis.
So, um, I will, I would, um, I am not
asking strongly, uh, look at how much
you can give, give a dollar.
Um, that's all you can give to again,
the water project, go check it out and
see, because it is so cool to see the
transformation of a community take
place.
Cause they, they take all the social
media presence, like show you what's
going on, how they're building the
sand dam that they're building or the
borehole, um, water well.
And then you get to see the
transformation of these people and
kind of get to know their
personalities, their stories and
understand how much it means to have
clean drinking water for the first
time.
So, um, with that said, um, I've got
Doug Barna coming onto the show today,
and he's a coach and mentor and
engineer.
And I like that he says he's an
organizing weirdo on a distant
runner and mountain hiker.
Um, he's also big on the concept of
leadership.
Um, he's always been passionate for
teaching, helping, supporting
everyone, um, that has a good heart.
And after 15 years of engineering, he
transitioned to teach and coach other
technical leaders.
Um, anybody that is trying to lead
people, whether you're technical or
not, can benefit tremendously from
hearing out his concepts and, uh, and
understanding leadership from a new
angle. So without further ado, Doug,
thank you so much for being here and,
uh, being willing to enlighten us
with your vision.
Well, thank you, Jackson.
That was a very kind opening.
Thanks.
Well, absolutely, man.
You're a kindhearted person.
And I got to know that and our, our
two minute prelude, um, before the
show.
Um, so thanks for, for trusting in my
team and in the process to be on the
show.
I'm going to ask before a little bit
stranger of a question.
Um, what inspired you to be on vision
pros?
Why did you want to take this
opportunity? I think, I mean, not
only is just kind of the title kind
of catchy, um, but I think, yeah,
just getting out your vision and
sharing it with other people so that
they can see that their vision might
not be that strange.
Um, I, I appreciate that you pointed
out that I'm an organizational
weirdo.
Um, I say that again, just to point
out that you're, you're not a weirdo.
If you are doing something that you
love, if you're doing something that
you're passionate about and you're
doing something that is helping
another person.
So, yeah, I mean, the vision pros,
the whole vision in your, in your
title, like that's kind of what I
try to help people with is see their
vision and then go work and attack
it.
And so, um, any, any chance I can get
to come out and talk and, and share
that with other people, uh, hopefully
even just one person hears it and,
and, and, you know, tackles their
vision and goes after their stuff.
Dude, we, we resonate on that
together.
I see your eyes are on fire too, as
you talk about this and that, that's
awesome.
I guess you can learn so much, um,
from somebody by, by the way they
present themselves.
So, uh, I define a little bit of who
should listen, but I'd love to hear
from you.
Who should be listening to you?
Why should they listen to you about
leadership and what are they going
to get out of today's show?
Oh man.
Uh, that's a really personal
question.
Um, I mean, anyone who's looking for
help, um, that is what really drives
me is trying to help other folks.
Um, maybe it's the leadership thing
in me, but if you're struggling, if
you're going home from work and you're
just frustrated, um, you're burnt out,
you're going home and you're not
spending enough time or focus with
your family and friends.
Um, then, you know, maybe, yeah, maybe
take some time and take a, take a
listen.
I'm here to help you guys lead.
I'm also here to help you guys
understand that, you know, work
doesn't have to be so stressful.
You don't have to be burnt out and
we can, we can do all that stuff.
You guys are really, really good at
what you do.
Um, the job that you do, the
individual contributions that you
put together, but you know, sometimes
work is really difficult and it's
difficult because of the people.
We all work around people.
We all work with people.
Um, and sometimes that's the
headache and that's what I focus on.
So if you're really, if you're really
good at your job, but you go home and
you're frustrated and you just don't
know why it could be that you know,
you're struggling with the people and
the folks that you work with.
And that's what I focus on.
I focus on how do you build
personal relationships?
How do you understand other people?
Um, and so that you don't have to
stress out and go home all burnt out
so that you can spend the time with
your friends and family when you
get home from work.
Hmm.
Wow.
That's deep.
Um, any entrepreneur who's, uh, been
at the game for five plus years understands
the value of what you just said.
Oh, so with that said in 15 seconds,
what's your personal vision?
Yeah, my, my personal vision was or
is to help, to help folks.
I, I got into this, like I said, as
you pointed out, you know, I've been,
I was an engineer for 15 years.
And I just saw people going home.
Like I mentioned just a few minutes ago
that they go home, they're stressed out.
They come back to work.
They're stressed out.
They're burnt out.
Things are just going crazy.
And I was always one that could help with that.
And so that always, that always got me to work.
That always got me to have a
good experience working.
And that's my vision is to help other
people have that experience as well.
So as a leader, you could burn out because
you got to deal with conflict.
You got to deal with people.
You got to deal with all of that stuff going on.
But as an employee or as a team member,
you can burn out because your leader sucks
or that they don't know how to handle this
kind of stuff, or they don't know how
to answer your questions.
And so that was my vision was just like,
life's too short to go home angry all the time.
Life's too short to, you know, for some reason,
you know, we live in this world where we got to work.
Like we might as well just kind of do it peacefully.
We don't have to do it with such headaches
and frustration and you know, that top down
command and control type of garbage.
And that's, that's, that's my vision is to
clean out the garbage so people can just
kind of be happy and peaceful again.
Nice, man.
I've been that, I've been that leader who sucks.
I've been that guy who has the leader who
sucks too, you know, and there's definitely
things that we can learn to improve our
own ability to, to, to level up there.
So you shared quite a lot about it and what
you talked about, but is there anything else
you'd like to add as far as, you know, what's
your vision for those that you serve directly?
Maybe what is the point A that they're, they're
stuck in, stuck at, but more what are some of
the outcomes B that they'll be, they'll be
looking at beyond the generic of more time with
family, more time with friends.
Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's just about, it's
just about ease.
So I kind of go in a different kind of different
steps of the ladder.
You know, a lot of folks that you might talk to
you are entrepreneurs and eventually you would
hope that they're growing to, you know, six, seven
figures. And so that would mean that they would
need a team.
My vision for you, my vision for other
entrepreneurs is are you ready to take on that
team?
So a lot of solopreneurs, we spend a lot of time
by ourselves.
And so we may miss out on some of those
interactions with people and team building and
other things like that.
So are you prepared that when you grow your
business and you're ready to bring on assistance
or contractors, or even your first employee, are
you able and willing to actually work with them
as a team member?
Now, if you're in corporate, you know, and
you're maybe somebody in mid-level management,
you know, are you actually helping your team grow
and are you thinking about those folks?
A lot of times we're growing in corporate and
that's again a little bit of a selfish thing.
We're trying to grow that corporate ladder.
We're trying to push ourselves and compete
against ourselves.
But when you're a leader, you have other people's
lives in your hands.
Are you embracing that responsibility and are you
helping them grow?
Are you helping them be successful?
Are you helping them go home with some peace and
quiet so that they can speak to you?
Are you helping them be quiet so that they can
spend time with their friends and family?
And then that third rung is the people who want
that position.
I'm here to help you get that position, get more
money, get more responsibility.
If that's what you want.
First, we got to understand if that's what you want.
There's nothing wrong with being an individual
contributor, an employee, or just a team member.
You don't have to be a leader to grow.
But if you do want to grow, again, do you know the
responsibility that you're taking on?
Are you going to understand that?
At the same time, can we organize and focus you on,
hey, I've got a group of people that I'm responsible
for, and so it's not just me.
It's also them.
So how can I help them not hate their lives or their
career?
And how can I help them actually love their lives
and better career?
So kind of taking that on as a three rung, kind of
three ring circus, if you will.
Yeah, I got you.
Absolutely.
And so how long have you been an entrepreneur, Doug?
So we're about four and a half now.
Four and a half.
Yeah.
Okay.
And how many years did you spend as a technical leader?
Oh man, I was a technical leader pretty much my whole
career started out as a project leader.
You're not 80.
I mean, maybe you're older than I think, but you
look pretty young, dude.
How old are you?
Thanks.
41.
So,
Oh my gosh, you're lucky.
So I look 41.
You look 35.
Thanks.
Yeah.
It's probably all that running and hiking that I
try to do that.
I try and just keep things a little bit beautiful.
Yeah.
But no, yeah, I was, I mean, I was the project lead
for the beginning of my career.
Most of that time, again, you know, you're leading
people.
That's how many years though, for project lead,
tech lead.
Yeah, about 10, 10.
And then as a manager, engineering manager, about
five.
Yep.
Awesome.
What size, what size teams were these?
Um, so the tech lead, man, there's, it could be
anything from 10, 12, 20 people, um, all different
departments, all different backgrounds, all that
kind of stuff.
That's kind of where you learn how to really
handle different people and different, different
things going on emotionally and culturally and,
you know, just background stuff.
And then as an engineer, my, uh, as an engine,
sorry, as an engineering manager, my biggest team
got to seven people.
Yep.
Seven people.
Yes.
Okay.
Awesome.
And so you're managing that, that team of seven
people and how long did you work with them for?
About five years.
Oh, wow.
It's the same team for five years.
I know some, some came and went, um, obviously
when I got my promotion into that, some, some
people decided that I wasn't the guy for them
and that's okay.
Um, and so then I got to hire on some of some
other people as well.
So some of those people, not the whole five years,
maybe just a year or so, just as I, you know,
hired them on and brought them on to the team.
Awesome.
Well, those, those rich stories that, um, you
know, if you ever wrote it, write a book like
Dr.
Peter Drucker or somebody like that, you know,
it's, it's those nuances of stories, um, that,
that really pull back the curtain on, on the
application of the principles that you're
teaching.
So, um, I'd love to ask you, what is your
worst business experience ever?
My worst business experience, as in like
entrepreneurship experience, business
experience, entrepreneurship, you feel
free to take that the way you want to.
All right.
Yeah.
No, uh, my worst experience was my last
experience in corporate America.
So what really drove me into entrepreneurship
and drove me into this.
So, um, I mean, it was the worst culture I've
ever been around.
Um, it was just, it was absolutely
hellacious.
Um, you're going to name names?
What culture?
Go ahead.
I mean, a little, a little, um, detective
work and you might be able to figure it out,
but I'm not going to name names.
I'm not going to name names again.
But, um, no, that's kind of what drove me
into, into this, but it was, it was, it was,
it was hell for me.
Now I say that because I also talk about this
in my leadership stuff is, you know,
cultures are dependent on who you are too.
So some people love that culture.
Some people thought that that was the
greatest thing ever.
And for me and other people, we thought
that that was just the worst thing we
could have ever experienced.
And that drove me to, yeah.
And that drove me to the culture or that
drove me to the entrepreneurship side,
which was helping people.
So I had to learn, I had to figure it all
out and basically for myself, because the
culture was that way.
So, um, you know, before that,
everything was great.
You know, I was good teams.
Everybody worked together.
Everybody was doing that stuff.
So I had all those skills in a good environment,
but then, wow, and we go into a
hellacious environment.
You've got a lot of stuff that you got to learn.
Unfortunately, I didn't have the mentorship.
And even though I asked part of the
hellacious culture is we're not going to
give you any of this mentorship.
So I had to do kind of do it all on my own.
With that being said, I also had to, I
didn't have to, but I offered up to help
other people.
Why?
Because they were asking me for help.
They were in the same situation.
Things were going crazy.
Things were bad.
And I guess they saw me being successful.
So, Hey, let's ask Doug and see what,
what can happen and, and let's work
together and hopefully he can help mentor me.
So that's kind of where the business
got its start in its feet, which was just me
with my coworkers.
Just helping them understand what was
going on with other people, other departments.
And once I had enough of the, of the, the
culture, once that manager just, you know,
kind of got me to the point where it was
time to leave as a nice way of putting it.
That's when I left.
And that's when, you know, all of Acclaim
Summit and all of my coaching and
mentorship started was when I just, you
know, was when I just couldn't take it
anymore, which obviously, you know, it
was kind of the universe telling you
like, Hey, Doug, you know, you know, that
idea of you got, you know, a noodle
around in your brain, it's time to go
give that a try.
And so I finally listened and that's
where the rest of the history.
So interesting, man.
How many entrepreneurs I've heard
stories about watch documentaries or
interviewed that, that their worst
experience ends up being what propels
their best like accomplishment or next
step or their focus.
It is so strange how life does that
consistently with people.
So you brought up something that I
want to just highlight for anybody who's
listening right now.
And that is there's a difference in
now and not realizing that you are the
problem, right?
With the cultural fit and recognizing
that there are certain cultures that
you don't belong in.
One, for instance, for me is Apple.
I would love to be part of a culture
like Apple.
And at the same time, I freaking
hate their products.
Like what a passion.
And so like, I cannot get their
darn products to work.
Right.
And I get it.
And a lot of people are going to hate
me for that, but like I wouldn't feel
well there because I'm just, I would
be a negative man and that's not who
I am either.
Right.
But then there's something like you
go to the mall and there's that store
that Spencer's, you know, like, I like
to go in there once in a while, peek
around, but I last about 30 seconds
before I feel uncomfortable.
It's just not my store.
Like it's not my vibe.
I don't like it.
I get it.
But I, I enjoy like going in and
seeing it, but to work in that dark
room with all of that hoarding stuff
around you, like, so it feels like a
hoarders paradise.
I mean, so that's not where I want
to work.
I wouldn't fit in well there.
Be a horrible team member.
So you have to evaluate the
environments that you want to be a
part of as part of the opportunity
to realize that there's environments
where you're going to be a great
leader.
There's an environment too, where
you may be an awful leader, as
would I, and both of those.
So moving forward to your best
experience, what's your best
experience ever in business or
leadership or both?
I don't know.
Cause I don't know if I've gotten
there yet.
Let's put it, let's say that
what's your best one so far.
So you can, you can slow down.
That's all right.
You can think about it.
So this could be something, you
know, while you were interning,
even let alone being a leader, it
could be something you learned
from a mentor, but something that
just got you like jazzed and you
were like, wow, this is what I
want work in life to feel or be
like.
Yeah.
I mean, right now I'm just, I'm
loving life now, like helping the
people that I'm helping.
Um, so that's kind of why it's
hard.
Like I'm also looking back into
the history of my career and the
different things like that to see
if something triggered me to go
this direction.
But I think it's this direction.
So, I mean, maybe it's, maybe it
was the whole Asia's culture.
That was also my best experience.
Funny, funny.
Well, you said now I like the
presence that if I, you know, how
to drink it, cheers, brother.
Like that's, you know, that's,
uh, that's the place where we
would all love to be at all times
of life.
Um, you know, and it's not always
possible, but enjoy it while
you're in the moment.
So what makes it so special right
now?
Because I get to help people.
Um, I do.
I just, I really appreciate
seeing that weight lifted off of
people's shoulders.
Um, you know, from, from my
physics background, I mean, I
know a lot about weight and
friction and pressure and forces
and all that kind of stuff from
physics.
You talk about the weight being
lifted off these people's
shoulders.
Tell me, tell me a little bit
more about that in depth.
Like what, what weight is it that
you've seen come off people's
shoulders?
What are some examples of that
without naming their names?
Of course, you know, Oh, Betty's
not sick of Sue anymore, but you
know, I have to go that deep,
but what are some of these
things that, that, that is a
weight coming off their shoulders?
No, I mean, that's, that's the
one that, that triggers a great,
um, you know, kind of customer
success story, if you will, is
working with one of my, one of my
very first student clients who
wanted a better relationship with
their manager and just couldn't
understand him.
Like he, he, he, she liked his,
liked him as his, as her manager.
She liked him as a coworker was
really appreciative of it, but she
knew she was in the wrong kind of
area in her career.
She was also taking some, um,
after, after work courses at the
local, you know, community college
to grow her career and skillset.
Um, and she didn't know how to
transition what she was learning
with what her aspirations and goals
were with her job and her career
with this leader and manager that
was, you know, this person over
here again, really liked the
manager, but just didn't know how
to communicate with him.
Didn't know how to get help out of
him.
Didn't know, didn't have the
confidence necessarily to, you
know, tell him stuff that, you
know, she might've been afraid to
say, because that might've hurt
the relationship or might've hurt
her career.
So we worked a lot on that.
Um, we got her vision together,
um, put that down on a piece of
paper so she could reference it
and look at it.
We talked about how and what she
could look at from the man, her
manager standpoint so that she
could get little clues as to how
he behaves and what his character
is like and what he's interested
in, um, to kind of start those
conversations and, and ease into
how you might make a difficult
conversation.
How you might make a difficult,
um, suggestion.
Uh, long, long story short, she
opened up to this manager.
The relationship grew.
Um, and he actually helped her,
um, get into another position
within the company because of her
educational background and all
the stuff that she started
sharing with him.
Like he was now going in the
background and talking to his,
his peers at his levels and
saying, Hey, what's opening up?
What, what can she fit into?
She's a great, um, employee,
obviously all these kinds of
conversations were going on.
Had she not opened up, had she
not shared that this was her
goal and this was her vision for
her career, like she would have
either had to quit and find a new
job or she would have to, she
stayed in the company.
She was able to move with the
company and she lives in another
country now.
So she's exploring the world and
all that kind of stuff while
keeping her job through the
pandemic and all the other crazy
stuff that was going on.
So like just having that fear
was okay.
She got help and she started
talking to her, her manager in a
very positive way.
And that, you know, lo and
behold, it just led to a very
positive path for her career and
her life.
So just that, that was that you,
you triggered that memory and
that one, that one's a good one.
I like that one.
Brother, you have no idea how
relevant your story was to first
class business.
A couple of our client
opportunities right now and, and
just opportunities for growth.
We, we've been talking about this
exact type of scenario regarding
several different team members
and, and there are, you know, our
opportunity to influence them as,
as said manager, but also our
opportunity for them, the
opportunity for them to learn to
express the same thing.
So that was super powerful and
relevant for us.
Doug, if, if you were to look at
the world of businesses out there,
leaders out there, et cetera, and
kind of pinpoint the ideal
scenario you would go into.
And so when I say ideal scenario,
I'm talking about a client that
has an unideal scenario, right?
There, there, or, or it's client
that needs some leadership help.
They want the leadership help.
Maybe they're desperate for it.
I don't know what that ideal
scenario looks like for you.
You know, if you're a firefighter
who goes in and fixes things, or if
you're more like a therapist that
deals with people after the fire
happens, right?
There's lots of different angles
of leadership.
If you can have a magic wand that
gave you any clients or any
scenario like that, what would
that scenario be like?
I shouldn't say magic wand, say
like superhero cape, right?
You're Superman.
You show up at the right time and
the right place for the right
people.
What does that environment look
like?
Is it one person?
Is it a hundred people?
Is it a department?
Is it a brand?
Yeah.
I like the interactions between
people.
I think that's probably comes from
my background as the project
engineer and the project lead
where I know what's going on in
manufacturing and then qualities
over here and supply chain has an
issue and they all intertwine on
this weird spider web of, of
craziness.
And so when it, when you ask that
question, yeah, I think the ideal
thing is probably a department
that, or, or a business.
I prefer the smaller businesses
like the huge, you know, thousands
of thousands of people that, that
would not be ideal, but you know,
smaller businesses, 200 tops
where we're really working on how
those interactions work so that we
can see them in real time.
One of the big things that I
really focus on is practice and how
people can practice leadership
skills, which is, which is
something that is very tricky.
And most people then kind of
ignore or they don't do, but when
you can work with different
departments or even within a
department, you can now see how
skills you're learning can now
start to work because you now
have examples of where, okay.
So we worked on maybe a conflict
resolution issue and we have a
real life example between employee
A and employee B.
So now we can see that actually
resolved and how that relationship
got better.
I love working with individuals,
but you know, if you ask me ideal,
I also, I like being able to see
and show how, how all of this is
working and how all of it is
playing out.
It's much more powerful.
Again, we go back to that weight
being lifted off of people's
shoulders and that's kind of when
it, when it happens is when they
actually see it.
Wow.
That thing that we, Doug and I
talked about last week that
happened and here, here it goes.
And it's like, okay.
And so seeing the interactions
is kind of more or less my ideal.
So I love it.
It's a, it's a dynamic interactive
approach to leadership.
Right.
And so not that you couldn't help
somebody with a one-on-one, but
it's just a different, it's a
different style of providing
solutions that allows you to, like
you said, to work with multiple
people at once.
So anybody with 200 people or
less in their, in their company,
it would be a great idea to bring
you in.
And do you do workshops with
people?
Do you go on site?
Is this all virtual or, and do
you provide lesson materials?
What's the, what does it look
like to work with you?
Yes.
All of you.
Good answer.
A lot of, a lot of what we do is
we start out by really
understanding what, what your
problems are, what the company's
problems are, or the individual's
issues are, or at least what they
think it is from there.
Then we can kind of tailor.
Well said.
We often think we know the
problem, but we have no idea.
That's right.
And so we can then tailor it.
So if to your point, like, do
they want me to come in?
Do they want me to, is it okay if
we just do it virtually?
Is it, do you want me to just
work with one-on-one?
Do you want me to come in and
work on a very broad topic?
So then I could teach and I do
have materials on certain topics
that we teach.
So I do have that.
And then from there, because, you
know, a department or a team is
all on the same page, I can
branch off with individuals and
work with them more specifically.
And that's kind of usually what,
what, how I've done it in the
past is I go into a smaller group
or a team.
We kind of do a more textbook
type of training.
So everybody has terminology and
just, you know, descriptions and
definitions.
And then when, because I worked
with maybe upper management or
their leadership, they have like
these two people, they're kind of
on that track for leadership.
We'd really like you to kind of go
one-on-one with them.
And so then I do go one-on-one with
those people that we kind of pick
out.
But because again, we have a whole
team that's now on the same page
with, you know, the certain topics
that, you know, Doug shared.
That helps support these guys as
well, these individuals, because now
everybody knows what they're trying
to do.
They know what they're talking
about.
And so they can all support each
other as everyone grows.
Excellent.
Now, do you find that is there a
point of no return?
And what I mean by that, right?
You got a company, they got 200
employees, they got a department
that's got 20 to 30 people in it.
And things are so miserable,
right? Or so awful that you
would, I wouldn't say just like
turn them down, but say like, hey,
guys, like these are the symptoms
of it's too far gone.
For me, and you know, you should
seek out this or you go into
crisis management mode and pep
talk rally and say, we got this,
like we can we can fix it.
What does teach us about that?
What would you do?
I mean, I have walked away from
from one client, same type of
thing.
It was just too much.
This is kind of goes back to where
we talked about, you know, each
culture is their own.
So I think one of the reasons I
walked away was because that
culture was its own and it wasn't
going to be anything that I was
teaching or that I was sharing.
So they had their they had their
thing.
They they kind of knew their
thing. And so that's kind of what
I would that's not what I would.
That's what I did, which was talk
to them and share with them that,
hey, here's your culture.
Here's what's going on.
And here's what I teach.
And you guys see how this is so
different. And so, you know, that
that Canyon is so great between
us.
Now, with that being said, I do
have a lot of contacts with other
leadership coaches and
networking and whatnot.
So I did offer up a few other
folks that they could talk to who
dealt a little bit more with what
was going on in their in their in
their environment.
So you don't have an alligator
hatch where you just let them fall
through and fall apart.
You got people that you can
reference them to.
OK, so it would be very on
leadership of me if I just if I
just threw them off and it's
common.
I'm sorry we don't provide that
service here. I mean, it happens.
But all right.
So what are some of the symptoms
of a team that that should be
concerned?
I mean, I know that the team is
not trending in the right
direction and they need some
intervention sooner than later.
Yeah. So the first thing is, you
know, are they communicating?
Right. I mean, remember, these
are just human beings.
So it's a lot of just relationship
stuff.
So are your folks talking to one
another?
And, you know, are they are they
jovial? Are they actually talking
or, you know, is it very just
sharp and like, hey, I wrote an
email. It was three sentences
long.
I got my point across and now I'm
waiting for you to get back to me.
So there's a lot in the
communication that you're looking
for.
So if they're not talking to each
other, that's a great indicator.
If they're siloing, so either
their departments are siloing or
just individuals are siloing,
which basically means that they're
kind of just working by
themselves and more of the
communication is grunts and nods
as opposed to actual words and
communication.
It's a little joking there, but
Yeah, I'm ready to grunt.
Like, do I grunt? Do I not?
But so that's that's going to be
one of the main kind of red flags
that you'll see, like, hey,
something's going on here.
The culture is kind of headed in
the wrong direction.
And then another thing, too, is
are you guys addressing problems
and not just sugar coating them
and not just kind of saying you're
addressing them, but actually
addressing them.
And if you guys kind of take an
audit of yourself and you know,
you say, OK, yeah, we're listening
to problems and we're, you know,
we're telling them we're
addressing them.
But you know, Doug, we're right.
We're not actually solving these
problems.
That is a good indicator that
your management style is going to
be very discreet.
You're going to be very
disconnected from your ICs,
your individual contributors
or your teammates, because your
teammates are going to see the
problems that are living with the
problems all the time.
And if management isn't tackling
the problems, now you're growing
that that void larger and larger
because they're expecting you to
solve the problems and you're not
expect you're not solving the
problems.
So if you can take a little self
audit and be really honest with
yourself, if you really are
solving a lot of those problems,
because I think that's part of
that's one of the things I see a
lot of is we get really busy and
we're trying to get more clients
and we're getting more customers
and we're trying to solve their
problems.
And internally, we have we we
will always have problems.
It's a machine like you always
have to have preventative
maintenance, right?
You always have to
your willingness to bridge the
gap right now and say like, yeah,
just do that self assessment at
the same time.
Like, no, Doug, like people need
to call you because I'm serious.
I'm serious about that.
You know, that's what doctors
should not be their own doctors.
That's not healthy.
That's not a good thing.
You know, and so that's where
if you're experiencing those
types of things and then I would
recommend turning to somebody
like Doug and saying, hey, man,
you take a look at this, too.
I mean, just tell him, no, if you
don't want to hire him, but at
least let him look at things.
And I'm grateful that you didn't
turn to what I know a lot of more
established leaders.
When I say more established,
bro, I'm talking like 20, 30
years more than you.
But these these they'll quickly
be like, we have this robotic
assessment to help us get to know
personally the problems that are
going on.
And maybe you do that, too.
And there's a there's a point of
assessments.
But I see so many leadership
gurus turn to these assessments,
whether it's disc or Myers-Briggs,
et cetera.
I love them.
They're phenomenal.
They're great.
But they have to be administered
with a human touch and they have
to be appreciated, comprehended
and internalized, utilized, applied
in order for them to actually work.
And that's my my humble opinion,
I guess.
So I got off my my story, but you
didn't do that.
You talked about actually like
using your eyes and ears and not
the AI for once to to solve some
of these problems.
So would you use assessments to
it to some degree or do you have a
preferred one that you turn to as
part of the process?
I do like assessments.
Part of what I teach actually comes
off of the assessments, but I will
agree with you.
I also hate them.
And the reason is is is because we
just use them as assessments.
I think 18 to 24 years of school
has taught us that if we take a
test and we get a grade, that's our
grade.
Like I got an A in math.
Fantastic.
What I like to teach is what do you
do with that A in math?
And that's the same thing with
these assessments like disc and
Myers-Briggs.
We get so excited that we get
these four letter little labels and
we go around and we tell our
buddies that, you know, or this or
that that we forget that these
things are what actually can help
us interact with other people.
And so that's what I use the
assessments for is when you
realize that you have somebody over
here who's an INTJ.
I don't remember all the assessments.
I thank you.
I don't either.
I'll own it.
I'll own it for you too, dude.
Like I know they're important and
valuable, but knowing when people
condescend to you because they're
like, you don't remember your
Myers-Briggs stuff and you're a
leader.
And I'm like, I love you.
Thank you for kind of sending at
me and we can still get along.
Right.
Irony.
But that's the point is I don't
know the assessments.
I know what to do with them.
Like, so if this person is showing
off these characteristics or these
behaviors, here's the behavior I'm
going to use with them to get more
energy out of them, to get them
driven, to have them be feel more
excited to come to work.
I don't care what your little
label is.
What I care about is how do I drive
you?
And so just, yes, I appreciate the
assessments.
Dude, you got me crying golden
tears if you can't see it here.
That's awesome.
So that's why.
And that's proof, by the way, that
our earth does actually move
because I've got a specific
barrier right where the ding sun
used to come onto my face at this
time of the day.
And it's no longer working.
So like, yes, anyway, you space
nuts out there who know how the
whole universe thing works.
I can help.
I'm going to have to tape the whole
thing, I guess.
All right.
Sorry about that, Doug.
I'm just really annoying.
This sounds right.
But yeah, just going back, which
was, you know, do I do an
assessment?
Do I do this?
Do I do that?
No, because it takes a personal
touch.
So ultimately, long story short, it
takes a personal touch.
And because of that, I do like to get
involved.
I do like to ask questions.
I do like to have a conversation
with with folks in the team because
it's more than just it's more than
just your A in math class or your
INTJF initials and stuff like that.
So so quick, quick favorite.
If you had to name one, which one
would it be assessment?
Ocean.
OCEAN.
Yeah, that one's a little bit
better than.
Yeah.
I was like, wait, that's how you
spell it.
But you're right.
People don't know how to spell
Ocean.
So that's fair.
Ocean.
All right.
Well, and sometimes those things
can have like a word, but then
they're not all spelled the same
way.
Right.
Exactly.
That's true, too.
Yeah.
What I said only applies to the
grammar folks.
So all right.
Cool.
What powerful lesson can other
visionaries learn from your
experience?
Return back to your vision.
What once once you, you know, you
go through the practice, right?
And there's tons of those
practices out there, too, is how
to get your vision, how to
understand what you want to try
to accomplish in life.
When you start to dive into it,
it gets it gets messy.
It gets a little bit dirty.
It gets crazy.
Come back to it every so often
and review it.
Make sure you're still on the
right path.
You know, well, it's huge.
Yeah, huge.
You're not you mentioned it, you
know, because if you're you have
your vision, but then you have to
build it or you have to take the
journey to get there.
Right.
And that means being in the
present and you can forget about
the direction or the reality of
what you're building when you get
lost in the mundane details.
Super wise words.
You also find the, you know,
the shiny object syndrome where,
oh, this is really cool.
And so it's kind of like what I
was thinking.
And so I'm going to go this
direction.
And then you forget like that you
kind of got taken so far off the
path that you forgot.
Like, hey, I was like this was
what actually was driving me.
So go back and review your vision
every once in a while.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
I think it's very important to do
regularly.
So well said.
All right, man.
Well, Doug, is there anything else
that you'd like to share?
Is there a place where people can
connect with you best?
And is there you have a resource
that you'd like to direct people
towards?
Yeah, sure.
I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn.
So you guys can always find me on
LinkedIn.
I'm trying to get more and more
into YouTube.
I think a lot of the visualizations
and sharing myself there.
So hit up my YouTube channel as
well.
It's just getting started.
So you can find me both on LinkedIn
and on YouTube with my name.
It looks like here that we have my
website up that will get you to a
lot of the free training,
the way to work with me.
And then my blog so that you can
kind of get my ideas on leadership
focused on cognitive readiness.
And then another leadership buddy
of mine and I are on YouTube under
UGH leadership, UGH.
And we're kind of putting together a
little bit of a podcast where we're
ripping apart some posts and social
media stuff that we think are kind of
funny.
But leadership is a little tricky
because it's a little bit deeper
than just a nice quote on the
LinkedIn page.
And so we kind of take some other
people's posts and we kind of dissect
them and say why they're good or why
they could use a little bit of help.
So if you guys want a little,
if you guys think some of those posts
out there could use a little help,
we do too.
And so if you want to join us on UGH
leadership, we'd love to see you over
there too.
Oh, interesting and fun.
Is that an acronym or is that just the
sound of...
Just the sound, the UGH.
UGH.
YouTube, I love it.
That's like the opposite of Charisma
On Command, which is one of my favorite
YouTube channels out there.
They're so good at dissecting and
showing how people are charismatic and
when certain people fall apart, there's
a certain Avenger they like to pick on,
by the way.
But I digress.
UGH on YouTube.
How many videos do you have on there
right now?
Oh, man, we just started that one too.
So we might only have like a dozen or
so.
So sweet.
We can binge it.
Yes.
Awesome.
Binge worthy.
Go see what he's up to over there.
And yeah, it's always helpful to learn
from the experience of others and
especially with a leader who's looking
at that for the sake of having a little
bit of fun, but also providing some
value to help you not fall into the
same pit holes and traps.
Is this it?
That's it.
Oh, I like it.
I love the videos.
Man, that was great.
Thank you.
Cool, dude.
That's awesome.
Well, best wishes on the YouTube
exploration.
I hope we get to go to VidCon together
in the future.
It's one of those YouTube.
It's the YouTube Influencers event
every summer that they host where all
the cool YouTube people go.
And it looks like a lot of fun.
I've never been.
I'm looking forward to it.
So maybe this coming summer, we both
get to go and tackle our YouTube
dreams there.
Doug, it's been a pleasure.
We'll talk to you right after the show
as well as we wrap up.
Visionaries, if you want to apply to be
on the show and share your vision, don't
hesitate to come on to Vision Pro's
website, submit your application, and
apply.
You might be the greatest vision that
somebody gets to hear and be inspired by.
And if you have comments for Doug and I
about the show, feel free to drop them
on the social media platform of your
choice, of course.
If you have questions, don't hesitate to
ask. We're here for you.
And we hope you have a fantastic rest of
your day.
Thank you, everybody.
Bye bye.
Thank you for being here today.
I'm really happy that you tuned in to
Vision Pro's live.
I'm looking forward to seeing your
reactions as these episodes continue to
move forward.
This is going to get more and more fun.
We'll have more and more engagement as
well.
We'll invite people to participate in the
show.
And thank you.