1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,960 the times and then he said, Hey Mike, let's show everybody what it looks like when two 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,760 negotiators go up against each other. 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:08,760 All right. 4 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,880 Welcome in to Vision Pros Live with Jackson Calame. 5 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:12,880 I'm your show host. 6 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:18,120 We'll be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs and guest leaders who are building fantastic 7 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,720 visions out there. 8 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:31,240 What's up Vision Pros and welcome in to Vision Pros Live. 9 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,560 I'm your host Jackson Calame, founder and CEO of First Class Business. 10 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:40,240 I want to acknowledge real quick our sponsors Epiphany and ablehealth.us as well as the 11 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,240 opportunity to give back to the water project. 12 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,260 There's people who have greater needs in you and I, if you're listening to this, we probably 13 00:00:47,260 --> 00:00:51,560 have a glass of water in our hand or right down the road from where we're at. 14 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:52,560 It's easy to get to. 15 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,000 There's other people who don't. 16 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,200 Please consider giving back to that project or something similar. 17 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,120 I've got an interesting guest on today, Mike Inman. 18 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,880 I'm going to find out exactly how to pronounce his last name. 19 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:08,520 He is a professional negotiator and I have learned that in a matter of the four minutes 20 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:09,720 I've collaborated with him. 21 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:14,880 Most of y'all know that my background in sales means that I also know a thing or two about 22 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:15,880 negotiating. 23 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:21,160 I've read the book, Never Split the Difference with Chris Voss. 24 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:26,520 I have dissected that where they find tooth comb as well and have my good feelings and 25 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:32,160 negative feelings as well about what was taught and what is consumed in that book. 26 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:38,520 You really can't learn enough about the art of negotiation because really it comes down 27 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,120 to your ability to communicate with the world and your ability to have an influence for 28 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,560 the things that you want to accomplish and do in your life, whether that's with your 29 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:49,360 kids, with your family, for your business ventures, with the bank, with your business 30 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,360 partners, with your employees, et cetera, et cetera. 31 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,280 As a visionary, this is one of those arts that you want to keep learning time and time 32 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:56,680 again. 33 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:01,720 I saw Mike come into that room with me for those four minutes and showcase a number of 34 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:07,720 skill sets that I rarely see in leaders who think they know the art of negotiating. 35 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,080 With that said, Mike, I look forward to hosting on today's show. 36 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,760 Welcome to Vision Pros and we look forward to the value we're going to extract from our 37 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:15,760 conversation. 38 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:16,760 Thank you for being here. 39 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,760 Thanks for the great setup. 40 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:20,760 I hope you didn't set the bar too high. 41 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:21,760 We'll find out, I guess. 42 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:22,760 We will. 43 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:23,760 We will find out, right? 44 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,600 I'd like to exceed expectations, but we're coming in with a high bar here, so let's find 45 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:27,600 out. 46 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,040 We are definitely. 47 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,040 Negotiationtraining.com and TableForce. 48 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,520 We got two different types of brand names, which is totally fine. 49 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,520 Maybe it's a product, a market reality. 50 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:40,560 It doesn't matter. 51 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:41,680 Why did you start this? 52 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:42,680 What got you into negotiating? 53 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:47,560 I'm a lifelong negotiator from a business perspective. 54 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:54,000 I spent three years in sales and I found out that I was just average at that. 55 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:58,080 Before I was in sales, I had a degree in engineering and I always liked data. 56 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,840 This little voice in my head said, you need to get some data. 57 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,840 You need to understand why you're not a great salesperson. 58 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:05,840 I developed a survey. 59 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,720 I passed it out to all of my peers who I consider world-class sellers. 60 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,920 We were selling into Ford, Chrysler, and General Motors, some fairly large, sophisticated purchasing 61 00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:14,920 organizations. 62 00:03:14,920 --> 00:03:19,600 When the survey came back, I was really disappointed because there was only one common data point 63 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,040 across all these world-class sellers. 64 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,080 The common data point was this. 65 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,640 They had all been in purchasing roles before they went into sales roles. 66 00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:29,640 That didn't make sense to me. 67 00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:32,360 I went to my boss and I said, hey, you know the survey? 68 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:33,360 He rolled his eyes. 69 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:34,840 He said, I've heard all about the survey. 70 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,200 I said, well, do you know that everybody here has been in purchasing before they were in 71 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:39,200 sales? 72 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:40,200 He said, duh. 73 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,640 I could have told you that before the survey. 74 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,200 I said, no, not duh. 75 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:45,200 I don't get it. 76 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:46,200 Why is that important? 77 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,720 He said, Mike, it's because we understand the other side's sheet of paper. 78 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,200 I said, I have no idea what that means. 79 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:54,200 He said, okay. 80 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:55,200 I don't either. 81 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:56,200 Let me explain it to you. 82 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:02,560 He said, we understand when we've worked with the end user community, when we've influenced 83 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:08,480 the spec, when we know the decision makers, when we have one of very few manufacturing 84 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:13,880 plants in the world that can produce the parts to that level of quality or in a location, 85 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,040 basically when we have a strategic advantage. 86 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,960 On those deals, we work to close them at high margin. 87 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:23,760 On the other side, we understand when we're the third or fourth or fifth bidder or when 88 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:25,240 we're dare I say a commodity. 89 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:30,360 On those deals, he said, Mike, what I've noticed is you come in early and you stay late, but 90 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,160 you're not working really smart. 91 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:34,160 Working hard, not smart. 92 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:39,160 I had my fax machine program to dial my beeper when a quote came in so I could hurry up 93 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:40,160 and quote it. 94 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,600 He said, Mike, you got to figure this out. 95 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:47,080 I said, yeah, it would be powerful, though, when I probably had the order. 96 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,960 I could prioritize those conversations, make that a big part of my day. 97 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:57,160 It would also be powerful to know when I didn't have the order so I could lose fast. 98 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:58,160 I said, how do I know? 99 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,120 He said, well, you're a smart guy. 100 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,680 Eight or 10 years in sales, you'll probably figure it out. 101 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,960 Or I know a hiring manager over at General Motors. 102 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:08,440 They're hiring buyers right now. 103 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,640 If you'd like, I could put your resume in front of them. 104 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,480 I said, well, if I was a buyer, how long would it take me to figure out? 105 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,200 He said, a year or two tops, you definitely figure it out. 106 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,760 That little voice in my head said, that sounds efficient. 107 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:22,920 Eight or 10 years in sales, maybe figured out. 108 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,440 One or two years in purchasing, definitely figured out. 109 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,200 Would you please make the phone call for me? 110 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,680 Here's the vice president of sales, takes his young protege and he gets me a job at 111 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:33,960 General Motors purchasing. 112 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:38,560 That's when my career changed. 113 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:44,000 What I learned as a purchaser, after I understood the sales sheet of paper was this. 114 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,760 My first job at General Motors, and I'm a little embarrassed to admit this, but I would 115 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,160 work with the end user community, build out the spec package, send it out to all of our 116 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:52,160 suppliers. 117 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,760 Then I played Mahjong and Solitaire. 118 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:56,720 Just killing time in the day. 119 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,960 Quotes would start to come in, start to stack up on my desk. 120 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,140 I'm playing Mahjong and Solitaire. 121 00:06:01,140 --> 00:06:03,440 New date would hit. 122 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:04,980 Play Mahjong and Solitaire. 123 00:06:04,980 --> 00:06:08,120 Then I'd get a phone call from a supplier and the phone call would go like this. 124 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:13,000 They'd say in a high stressed voice, hey Mike, we submitted our bid a few days ago and we're 125 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,960 wondering how do we look? 126 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,920 Without even looking at their bid, I'd say, are you kidding me? 127 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:21,480 You're way too high. 128 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,180 Click back to Mahjong and Solitaire. 129 00:06:24,180 --> 00:06:29,520 The next day I get a phone call from that same supplier. 130 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,920 Would say, hey Mike, we check with finance and you're right. 131 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:34,600 We sharpened our pencil. 132 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,000 We can give you an 8% discount. 133 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,600 How does an 8% discount sound? 134 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,400 Without even looking, I would say 8%. 135 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,960 You got to be double digits if you're serious or you're going to lose this order. 136 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,220 Or I would call a meeting with a supplier I had no intention of doing business with 137 00:06:50,220 --> 00:06:51,440 and I would take, take, take. 138 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,680 Somebody who was weak and desperate, I would abuse that relationship. 139 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:56,080 I would take everything from them. 140 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,080 Then I'd call a meeting with a supplier I really wanted to do business with. 141 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:03,240 I would say, I've met with your competition and I've got all this stuff from them. 142 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,500 I cover the name because that would be unethical. 143 00:07:05,500 --> 00:07:08,920 If you can't beat this, you're going to lose this deal. 144 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:10,680 And I was really good at it. 145 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:15,160 Jackson, I was, I was getting rewards for that type of behavior. 146 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:16,160 Here's the problem. 147 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,680 That type of negotiating is not sustainable. 148 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,680 We drove hundreds, if not thousands of suppliers out of business with those types of negotiation 149 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:28,760 tactics and a little voice in my head one day said, you're better than that. 150 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:30,560 You just can't be abusive. 151 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:31,780 That's not in you. 152 00:07:31,780 --> 00:07:36,080 So I started to study negotiations and I read books on negotiating, took classes like the 153 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:37,120 one I now teach. 154 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,760 And from that point forward, my career went from a buyer to a manager to a director in 155 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:46,680 the GM system, moved over to America West, which is now American Airlines through acquisition, 156 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:53,000 had all the indirect procurement responsibilities, had $800 million to spend there. 157 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,760 Moved to a company called IAC Interactive Corp. 158 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:02,040 And IAC is a holding company that owned match.com and let's see, Expedia, Ticketmaster, Home 159 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:03,360 Shopping Network. 160 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:07,460 My job of head of procurement there was to get all the companies to negotiate together 161 00:08:07,460 --> 00:08:12,940 internally so then we could then go negotiate with our suppliers with one voice. 162 00:08:12,940 --> 00:08:17,080 And my last gig before joining Tableforce was with a company called MGM Resorts International. 163 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:21,680 So 50,000 hotel rooms on the strip and globally. 164 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,120 And I had all the indirect spend there. 165 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:29,200 So I've used negotiations throughout my career, sales side, purchasing side. 166 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:36,680 And I believe if you negotiate properly, you can actually have better relationships. 167 00:08:36,680 --> 00:08:38,280 You can get to that mythical win-win. 168 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:44,500 If you put the effort in, if you have a process, if you try, if you raise the bar on yourself, 169 00:08:44,500 --> 00:08:48,120 you can actually have a better deal and better relationships with your suppliers. 170 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,720 Because here's what I figured out in procurement. 171 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,840 If you beat them up, if they don't go out of business, but you need that phone call 172 00:08:54,840 --> 00:09:00,200 answered after hours or you need that email response on the weekend, sellers do not prioritize 173 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,240 you. 174 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:07,760 Buyers of the world need to understand that the sellers have to have their wins. 175 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,960 And you can actually do that in a kind professional way. 176 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,440 You don't have to just beat them up. 177 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,720 And if you do that, both sides get happy with each other. 178 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,960 I've got a ton of ex-suppliers that I'm Facebook friends with. 179 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,360 Now that's not real friendship. 180 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,420 Don't hear something I'm not saying. 181 00:09:24,420 --> 00:09:31,880 But it is building a relationship that's lasting and that only came because of the way we negotiate. 182 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:32,880 So that's a long way. 183 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:34,760 I get off on these tangents sometimes. 184 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:36,240 No, it's good. 185 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,320 You ended the book super well. 186 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:44,560 Those who hear the wisdom and what you just shared and went through in the course will 187 00:09:44,560 --> 00:09:45,560 benefit tremendously. 188 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:49,720 I can teach you how to beat somebody up in about an hour. 189 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:54,560 The problem is the other side figures it out and they may have to do the deal. 190 00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:56,680 They may decide to do the deal because it's better than nothing. 191 00:09:56,680 --> 00:09:57,680 But it's not. 192 00:09:57,680 --> 00:09:58,680 So let's look at this. 193 00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:00,240 So today is a good experience. 194 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,960 I had a good experience that goes along with exactly what you're saying. 195 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:08,840 And in this case, it was that entrepreneur that I don't want to say they lost their opportunity 196 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,200 to be on the show because this is one, we're not the Joe Robbins show and we don't have 197 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:13,440 a million people listening in. 198 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:21,120 But there was a lesson that required that me to say, you know what? 199 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,920 This may not be the best opportunity for you. 200 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:26,400 That hurts. 201 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:33,040 As a professional, to get denied by a podcast, whether it's small or big, if it's small, 202 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:37,000 you're going to feel bad about it because it's like, wow, who are you to deny me? 203 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,000 If it's big, it's embarrassing. 204 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,120 Like I didn't make it onto that show. 205 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:41,500 Well, here's what happened. 206 00:10:41,500 --> 00:10:47,120 The entity I was talking to, I was asking them about one of their web pages after having 207 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:51,880 a fairly awkward first pre-show discussion. 208 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,920 And when we were talking about their website, they had some critical flaws in the wording 209 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:57,120 on their website. 210 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:03,520 And the person said, oh yeah, like that designer did an awful job. 211 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:04,520 We fired them. 212 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,520 It's all their fault. 213 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,560 So here I am as a seasoned entrepreneur knowing, man, anytime we point our finger that hard 214 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:14,320 at somebody, there's three pointing back at us. 215 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,520 And so I'm like, oh man, how do I address this? 216 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,220 This is such a negative vibe. 217 00:11:18,220 --> 00:11:22,560 And they went a step further because I said, well, how much did you pay them to work in 218 00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:23,880 your website? 219 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:28,040 And they said, oh, I didn't pay them on the front end. 220 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:29,040 Are you crazy? 221 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:30,520 I've learned the lessons. 222 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,880 I've learned how to run my business. 223 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:36,560 And I'm thinking, wow. 224 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:41,960 They didn't even pay the person exactly under the thumb. 225 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:42,960 Exactly Mike. 226 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:48,360 And what happened is I got myself in a situation where I realized there's no way I want to 227 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:53,480 have a relationship, a working relationship with somebody who treats people like this. 228 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:55,720 That was revealed in the process. 229 00:11:55,720 --> 00:12:02,160 And so there was this hostility and toxicity that existed where I knew there's no way I 230 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,160 wanted a relationship of negotiation with this person. 231 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:06,400 So let's go there. 232 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,200 How do you define negotiations? 233 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:14,040 Because I think you have a unique take on it, whereas most people think it's this hostile 234 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,640 back and forth of Mike, let me twist your arm and you twist my arm and let's see who 235 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:18,640 wins. 236 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,880 But what does negotiation mean to you? 237 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,040 So it's in its simplest form. 238 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,160 It's just two or more parties trying to reach agreement. 239 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,920 And if we do this properly, I should want you to be happy with the deal. 240 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,680 I've heard a lot of people define win-win as both sides equally don't like the deal 241 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:35,080 or both sides kind of don't like it. 242 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:39,000 And I'm like, fine. 243 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,120 But I want to see both sides actually excited about the deal. 244 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:48,040 So for example, when people negotiate with either table force when companies negotiate 245 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:53,900 with us or when people find out that I'm a professional negotiator, I know I'm making 246 00:12:53,900 --> 00:12:54,900 assumptions here. 247 00:12:54,900 --> 00:12:55,900 And that's not a bad thing. 248 00:12:55,900 --> 00:12:57,240 There's that old saying about don't make assumptions. 249 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,640 It makes an A-S-S out of you and me. 250 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:01,180 But I think we should make assumptions. 251 00:13:01,180 --> 00:13:03,640 We should test those. 252 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:08,480 So the assumption I generally make is when someone starts negotiating with us, there's 253 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:09,480 a little reluctance. 254 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:10,920 They're like, oh my gosh, they're professional negotiators. 255 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:12,080 And they're going to take advantage of me. 256 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:13,720 They're going to screw me over. 257 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,400 And all this junk in their head gets in the way. 258 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,840 So I'll start a negotiation off saying, hey, listen, here's the deal. 259 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:25,400 I want you to imagine that in five years, we're up for renewal. 260 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:30,960 And we are so happy with each other that table force is funding a get together down at the 261 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,560 Fountain Blue in Miami. 262 00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:38,800 We're paying for you, the supplier, to come join us. 263 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:47,920 So with that end game in mind, how do we build in a contract that aligns us so that we're 264 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,320 happy with you in five years and you're happy with us in five years? 265 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,440 So begin with the end in mind. 266 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:54,440 Love it. 267 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,880 And now we've got to talk about your wants and needs and my wants and needs and how do 268 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,480 we align that. 269 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,360 One thing that you said that I teach that's not a negotiation lesson, it's a life lesson. 270 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,520 I learned this from our founder, Bill Garcia, who's not only a master negotiator, but master 271 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,560 in life. 272 00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:14,360 Bad news early is good news. 273 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:19,800 Too many deals happen and then both sides are unhappy with it or find out later that 274 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:21,400 this sucks and we shouldn't be together. 275 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:28,040 If you can find out early in the process that a deal won't make sense, then you can go away 276 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,640 and say, hey, listen, this doesn't make sense for us. 277 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:32,600 We're not in alignment. 278 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,640 I love you as a person, as a business. 279 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:36,640 Just doesn't make sense. 280 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:41,640 So if something changes on your sheet of paper, if a new variable comes in, if you find another 281 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:46,840 supplier and they don't work out for you, we'd love to be there to pick up the pieces, 282 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:48,840 but this just doesn't make sense right now. 283 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,680 And have that conversation really early on. 284 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:56,220 I think people can be happy with each other instead of just trying to beat each other 285 00:14:56,220 --> 00:15:00,300 up and run each other down and then it will not work out in the end. 286 00:15:00,300 --> 00:15:02,160 That's just a waste of everyone's time. 287 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:03,160 Right. 288 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:04,160 I agree with that. 289 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:08,480 So hostage negotiations, what most people think of, but your term of negotiation is 290 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,400 what I define as healthy dialogue. 291 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:16,360 Healthy dialogue consists of two people coming to bat, ready to give their best. 292 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:20,880 That's usually what ultimately results in the win-win opportunities. 293 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,800 So how do you go about, well, let's look at this from another perspective real quick. 294 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:29,280 I should go back to my, I'm just, I love going off the hook with this, but let's go right 295 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:30,280 here. 296 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,560 Mike, who should be listening to this podcast right now? 297 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,320 Why should they listen to you and what are they going to get out of the rest of today's 298 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:38,320 show? 299 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:39,320 Sure. 300 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:45,640 So we primarily teach salespeople, 80% of our audience ends up being sales or project 301 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,760 management, customer facing roles. 302 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,440 And the other 20% is on the procurement side. 303 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:59,440 So people that are in buying and selling roles are going to get the most benefit out of this. 304 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,480 The lessons we teach are applicable to other things like salary negotiations. 305 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:09,960 They're applicable to things like going to Home Depot and getting a better lawnmower. 306 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:15,500 They're applicable to things like, so when I go out to dinner with my wife and she does 307 00:16:15,500 --> 00:16:19,680 not like negotiating at all, she's one of those people that cringes and like the blood 308 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,040 drains out of her face and she walks away. 309 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:24,040 Here's what I know. 310 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:28,680 When I go to a new restaurant and I'll check in at the host stand, they'll say, do you 311 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:30,520 want inside or outside? 312 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,640 You want the bar or the restaurant? 313 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:33,920 Do you want the high top or the booth? 314 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,200 They'll give you a binary choice. 315 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,200 And I always say the same thing. 316 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,600 I want to sit with your best server. 317 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:41,720 And they go, huh? 318 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:42,720 And I go, yeah, yeah. 319 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:46,760 You know, the server, the server that trains all the other servers, I know disrespect, 320 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:47,760 everyone's got to start somewhere. 321 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,120 But if I'm going to pay full price and my wife has made it very clear, I'm going to 322 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,920 pay full price. 323 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,280 I want the best experience possible. 324 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,720 Now that's an opportunity to negotiate. 325 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,640 The studies show that most people miss there's five to seven opportunities to negotiate every 326 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:04,640 day. 327 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:10,400 But because it's not buying a house, buying a car, sourcing business, winning business, 328 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:11,760 people don't think of it as a negotiation. 329 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:13,160 Related to the finances. 330 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:14,160 Right. 331 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:15,160 Right. 332 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,760 And I want to expand the definition of negotiating to all these other things. 333 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,340 Now most hosts or hostesses miss an opportunity. 334 00:17:21,340 --> 00:17:25,400 If I'm coaching them, I say, now, when somebody says, I want to sit with your best server, 335 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,240 you need to say, hey, listen, can you wait five minutes? 336 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:28,240 I just sat them. 337 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:29,240 I don't want to slam them. 338 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:33,840 And by the way, if you have a good experience, will you leave us a Yelp review? 339 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,800 Right. 340 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,080 They're going to get some value back. 341 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,460 They're going to give me what I want and need, the best service. 342 00:17:40,460 --> 00:17:44,760 And if they deliver on that, I should then be willing to give them what they want and 343 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,120 which is the opportunity to get more business. 344 00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:48,120 Yep. 345 00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:50,840 And this is about exchanging value between two sides. 346 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,520 I'm not trying to trick them into giving me the better table. 347 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:54,520 Right. 348 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,240 I'm trying to say, I want that. 349 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,320 That's high value to me. 350 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,200 So if you can give it, if it's low value to you, that's a good thing. 351 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,680 Now what could be low value to me, high value to you, like a review? 352 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,760 Now here's what most people don't know. 353 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,760 So I've trained people on six continents. 354 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:14,100 I've been in more than 30 countries doing negotiation training for the last 10 years. 355 00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:20,960 When I travel, I leave a review for restaurants that I eat at. 356 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:26,040 Anyway, for me, because if it's a really good one and I go back to that city, I want to 357 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,200 know that that was a good restaurant and I'll even use the server's name. 358 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,020 I'll say, Sarah gave me great service. 359 00:18:31,020 --> 00:18:37,000 So when I show up at the lion's head pub, I can say, is Sarah here? 360 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,040 Right. 361 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:39,680 So it's my own reminder, but it's low value. 362 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,300 It has some value to me, but it has more value to them. 363 00:18:42,300 --> 00:18:46,120 But that should be in the deal to look out for each other. 364 00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:49,080 It's funny that you should mention the lion's head pub. 365 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,680 That is one of my former clients in Milwaukee, north of Milwaukee. 366 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,160 I believe so, with restaurant software. 367 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,640 So it's all brands that you would mention. 368 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,000 Let's move in real quick, Mike. 369 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,520 So 15 seconds version. 370 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:06,520 What's your vision? 371 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:12,280 My vision, I want to help people understand negotiations is not about a crisis or a negative 372 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:13,280 process. 373 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:19,320 We should have fun negotiating. 374 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:20,560 Most people have to go to work. 375 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,440 I get to go to work. 376 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,400 Negotiations are all I do. 377 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,320 So that's my quick highline there. 378 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,080 Let's have fun negotiating. 379 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,200 So what's your vision for the clients you work with? 380 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,800 So the word negotiate comes from the Latin term. 381 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:36,840 I'm not a Latin speaker. 382 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:43,320 It's negare optimum, which means to deny leisure. 383 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:48,560 So the whole word, and in fact, in French and Spanish, it means business. 384 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,520 So there's all these negative things that get associated with it. 385 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,840 And I just want to change that so that people get to negotiate. 386 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:58,500 In fact, when I negotiate with somebody, especially if I'm on Zoom or in person, I put a smile 387 00:19:58,500 --> 00:19:59,500 on my face. 388 00:19:59,500 --> 00:20:02,880 They'll say, hey, listen, I hate to bring this up, but, and I'll go, oh, are we negotiating 389 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:03,880 now? 390 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,640 Like, I want to bring that positive energy. 391 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:07,960 Tell me what you need. 392 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:09,080 Please be honest with me. 393 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:13,760 And by the way, there are some cultures in this world that have a hard time being honest 394 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,520 and they hold back because they don't want to hurt someone's feelings. 395 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,000 I love negotiating with people like from the Netherlands or from Germany because they will 396 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,520 just like tell you. 397 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:25,520 So I call them direct. 398 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,880 In fact, I was doing a class and I said, I love negotiating people from the Netherlands 399 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,460 and somebody from the Netherlands, because I said, because they're direct and somebody 400 00:20:32,460 --> 00:20:33,640 from the Netherlands raised their hand. 401 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,040 They said, thank you. 402 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:36,760 Most people think we're mean. 403 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,840 And I'm like, no, no, you're just direct and that is efficient. 404 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:45,000 So we should also, how do we get yes or no faster? 405 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,440 Sorry, that's a little over 30 seconds. 406 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,440 Like my passion doesn't cause shame on me. 407 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,120 No, that's awesome. 408 00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:53,120 All right. 409 00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:58,440 So with that said, what are some of the powerful lessons that visionaries can learn? 410 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:03,360 So we're not necessarily talking about the person who's the sales rep they want to hire, 411 00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:09,040 but when they're in the process of running their own sales or building their own influence, 412 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:13,200 what can they learn from your experience about negotiating that can help them succeed in 413 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,480 the here and now? 414 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:20,280 So the first thing we tell people is one of our three foundational principles is to try. 415 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:21,720 Now that sounds very trite. 416 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,280 Like this guy's going to tell me to try. 417 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:24,280 Visionaries are going to tell me to try. 418 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,560 Yeah, I'm telling you to try because here's what happens a lot. 419 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:34,200 Sales leader will say to the sales team, hey, go out and get an 11% price increase. 420 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:35,480 We're going for 11% this year. 421 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:36,480 Go get 11%. 422 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,960 Sales person, their knees under the table are shaking because they don't want to call 423 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,160 the customer and say, hey, I got bad news. 424 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:44,560 11% is coming. 425 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,880 They'll send an email or a text or a phone call and they'll say, hey, I got really bad 426 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:49,880 news. 427 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:51,960 My boss said we're supposed to get tried to be 11 and a half percent. 428 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,320 What do you think about that? 429 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,160 And the buyer will say, because buyers are trained to do this, get out of here. 430 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:58,160 You're out of your mind. 431 00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:59,640 No, self-fulfilling prophecy. 432 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:00,640 Yeah. 433 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,920 Now the salesperson will go back to their boss and they'll say, I tried. 434 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,120 No, no, you didn't try. 435 00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:11,200 No, we have a saying, I'll never take a no from someone not empowered to say yes. 436 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,720 So when you say, Hey, I needed 11 and a half percent price increase. 437 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:15,720 I did my best internally. 438 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,120 I've already negotiated 11 and a half percent as your number. 439 00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:20,000 And the buyer says, no, get out of here. 440 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,600 You're out of your mind. 441 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:27,640 Salesperson should say, well, it sounds like we've reached your level of authority. 442 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,800 Who could say yes? 443 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:30,800 Can I talk to your boss? 444 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:31,800 Can I talk to your boss's boss? 445 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:32,800 Can I talk to the end user community? 446 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,120 Can I talk to finance? 447 00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:40,920 Salespeople are generally taught to hear no three times in most of their techniques in 448 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:41,920 negotiations. 449 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:42,920 They don't do that. 450 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,160 They hear no one time and they go away afraid. 451 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,100 Try, keep trying. 452 00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:53,460 Try with somebody else who can say yes, who can negotiate with me. 453 00:22:53,460 --> 00:22:54,460 Keep trying. 454 00:22:54,460 --> 00:22:55,460 So that's number one. 455 00:22:55,460 --> 00:22:58,320 The other thing is to have a plan. 456 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:03,580 Most people think that negotiations got to be flexible and entrepreneurial and you do, 457 00:23:03,580 --> 00:23:11,800 but that's the 20% of the Pareto you got 80% you should have a plan for a famous negotiator 458 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:18,320 said they busted a myth that you should have a negotiation plan that you should play detective 459 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:19,860 before you go negotiate. 460 00:23:19,860 --> 00:23:22,360 And they're they're reasoning and I don't intellectually. 461 00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:24,120 I understand what they're trying to say. 462 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:28,300 They said it's because most people lie on social media. 463 00:23:28,300 --> 00:23:33,560 So if you looked up someone, they would probably have a couple of lies on their LinkedIn profile 464 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:39,340 and that you can get more in 20 minutes with them than you can by reading their bio. 465 00:23:39,340 --> 00:23:42,980 To which I say, but what about the stuff that's correct? 466 00:23:42,980 --> 00:23:44,360 What about reading between the lines? 467 00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:48,640 You know, most people don't have the benefit of going to training to understand how to 468 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,840 psychologically profile someone in 20 minutes. 469 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:56,020 And by the way, if you have an hour set aside and you're spending 20 minutes profiling the 470 00:23:56,020 --> 00:24:01,440 other side, you haven't really used your negotiation time efficiently. 471 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:06,000 So part of the plan is, and I tell people don't stalk anyone, like that's rude and inappropriate 472 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,960 and it may be illegal. 473 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:13,640 But LinkedIn is a billboard that people freely choose to put out there about themselves. 474 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:18,280 So if somebody doesn't look me up, I almost think, wow, that's disrespectful. 475 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,000 I looked you up, right? 476 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,480 We're going to have a meeting. 477 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,480 I want to know things like, were you in the military or not? 478 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:31,200 And my assumption is people from the military are a little more formal in their processes. 479 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:36,040 So my language will shift a little more yes or no, sir, yes, ma'am, no, ma'am, until proven 480 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:37,040 otherwise. 481 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,840 It depends on what university they went to, what country they're from. 482 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:45,360 Again, I mentioned some countries are very rigid and strict and hierarchical and other 483 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:49,720 countries are really more collective, socialistic. 484 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:55,300 So I want to just build out a little mini profile before I start talking to that person 485 00:24:55,300 --> 00:24:57,040 to see if we can build a bridge. 486 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:58,440 I'm not using that information. 487 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,240 Let me back up. 488 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,600 People have said, well, that could be manipulative. 489 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:09,200 If you are using information to hurt the other side, to put them at a disadvantage, that's 490 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:10,520 manipulation and that's wrong. 491 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:11,920 I'm against that. 492 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:17,620 If you were using the information you find to build a bridge, then that's manipulation, 493 00:25:17,620 --> 00:25:19,960 but it's used in the context of... 494 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,960 Yeah, I guess they're both strictly in the definition. 495 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:22,960 But hold on. 496 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:24,720 That's when you're looking at the semantics game. 497 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,520 So if I were coming back at you and saying, hey, that's negative to do, then that's one 498 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:28,520 thing. 499 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,420 But the word manipulate means to mold. 500 00:25:31,420 --> 00:25:36,440 And so we put negative connotations on things as Americans or as speakers of English brought 501 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:43,240 up from our own homes where we learn to fight or we learn to harmonize. 502 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,880 So it just depends on how we're utilizing the term. 503 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:50,520 But I think it's a beautiful way of showcasing how much value we put in the other entity, 504 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:51,520 the way that you're talking about. 505 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:52,520 Jackson, you've said it. 506 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:53,940 So the English language. 507 00:25:53,940 --> 00:25:54,940 So I read this study. 508 00:25:54,940 --> 00:25:56,680 Now this is about 10 years old. 509 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:04,300 It said the number one failure rate for US expats, a US businessperson transferring overseas 510 00:26:04,300 --> 00:26:06,260 is in the UK. 511 00:26:06,260 --> 00:26:11,040 And what they found was when somebody from the US goes to Spain, a little voice in their 512 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,040 head says, okay, you're in Spain. 513 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,040 It's a different language. 514 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:14,040 It's a different culture. 515 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:15,360 You might need to take a siesta. 516 00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:17,720 You need to adapt to them. 517 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:22,800 And they have a decent degree of success because they're saying to themselves, I need to adapt. 518 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,880 When people from the US go to the UK, they go, oh, we speak the same language. 519 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:27,880 We fight wars together. 520 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:29,320 We're the same. 521 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,920 And they find out in the UK, we are not the same. 522 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:37,640 To your point, the word scheme, you know, in the US, it's a very, oh, there's a scheme. 523 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,020 That's like illegal, legal scheme. 524 00:26:40,020 --> 00:26:42,240 In the UK, it's just a plan. 525 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:43,240 You know, everyone has a scheme. 526 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:48,640 But the world has different connotations, even though the definition is about the same. 527 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,800 Yes, I love that. 528 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,680 I'm not a fan of the semantics games at the same time. 529 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:58,680 I play them constantly and what I do, but it's about, you know, can you as a leader 530 00:26:58,680 --> 00:26:59,800 create space for that person? 531 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,840 So another little thing that came up, and I'm glad you utilized it as an opportunity. 532 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,420 I know this wasn't personal, Mike, but I know how it matters for the context of what we're 533 00:27:08,420 --> 00:27:10,120 talking about. 534 00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:15,040 We've talked about utilizing that 20 minutes of the time that you have to pre-frame a call, 535 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:16,040 right? 536 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,160 To be prepared for that call. 537 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,440 There's far too many people out there who don't, who go into situations where they could 538 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,880 have found out more about the situation and didn't. 539 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:31,020 On the flip side, there's the potential of being pretentious and thinking somebody should 540 00:27:31,020 --> 00:27:34,040 have done more research than they actually did. 541 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,040 Right? 542 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,760 For instance, if I'm going to meet with Mark Zuckerberg and he doesn't know who I am, 543 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,720 so freaking what? 544 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:41,720 It's Mark Zuckerberg. 545 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,200 You know, if I'm going to meet with Elon Musk, so what? 546 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,320 We have to be careful as people not to box ourselves in on either side, right? 547 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,320 Where we put ourselves into a limiting belief or we're like, oh man, this person didn't 548 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,000 research me because of X, Y, or Z. 549 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,400 So coming in with an open mind, knowing you did your best to do your research and that 550 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:00,400 you at least tried. 551 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,720 I also, real quick on your other thought, when you talked about trying, you talked about 552 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:11,580 the salesman who called and failed in their try process because they kind of preemptively 553 00:28:11,580 --> 00:28:16,520 told the person how they should feel about the 11% price increase, right? 554 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,920 Saying, oh man, I bet you're not going to like this. 555 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,160 Be prepared not to like this. 556 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,760 Like they kind of unsold themselves. 557 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,640 What about the person who didn't make the call to begin with? 558 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,280 They just quit, right? 559 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,080 You're certainly going to have those two who quit. 560 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:30,800 And they told their boss they tried. 561 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:31,800 Oh, even worse. 562 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:32,800 Boss, I called it. 563 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:33,800 They wouldn't call me back. 564 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:34,800 They ghosted me. 565 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:35,800 Sorry. 566 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:36,800 That's not trying. 567 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:37,800 Yeah. 568 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:38,800 No, it's not. 569 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,320 Trying with the intent to win. 570 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:41,320 Right? 571 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,160 I love that you guys have that as a principle. 572 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,320 So you mentioned that you mentioned having the plan. 573 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,960 What's the third point? 574 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,040 So we like to call it raise the bar. 575 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,040 And it's about having high expectations for yourself. 576 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:01,000 If you're a salesperson, you're closing deals at 18% margin. 577 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,020 And you know with a 90% confidence that 18% is a good number and you're probably going 578 00:29:05,020 --> 00:29:07,240 to close that deal. 579 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,200 Why aren't you trying for 22? 580 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,440 I'm not asking anybody to go from 18 to 36 overnight. 581 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:19,320 But if we can be a better me tomorrow than I am today, make incremental improvements 582 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,400 1% a day. 583 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,240 And when you're closing deals at 22% interest, you get a little more confidence. 584 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,720 And now maybe we go for 24, 26%. 585 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:33,640 But to raise the bar on ourselves, I think is a good healthy practice that we should 586 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:38,320 all get into regardless of your negotiating or your accounts payable and you're processing 587 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,620 120 purchase order of invoices a day. 588 00:29:42,620 --> 00:29:44,440 Why can't you get to 130? 589 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,400 You know, I see all these people online and not that I want to make this about salary 590 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:48,400 negotiations. 591 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,040 But if I just had salary transparency, I could get a raise. 592 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,360 No, you couldn't. 593 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,520 Salary transparency does nothing for you. 594 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:03,680 Even valuable to your boss, to your company, that does value to go in and say, Hey, I'm 595 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:08,600 10% better than everybody else in my peer group and whatever your job is, whatever your 596 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,600 KPIs are. 597 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,240 How can I get on the path to get a raise? 598 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,280 How can I get on the path to get a promotion? 599 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,760 How boss can I make your life better? 600 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,500 And when I make your life better, I expect you're going to make my life better. 601 00:30:23,500 --> 00:30:28,480 That's true negotiating and part of a plan and to raise the bar on yourself. 602 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,880 Why can't you get a little more out of it? 603 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,800 That's being valuable, knowing your value and expressing your value. 604 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:36,800 Right. 605 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:37,800 I like the way you frame that up. 606 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:38,800 Yeah. 607 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:39,800 You've just done all three of those things. 608 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:44,880 Um, and it's a big difference between somebody who, who, uh, wins and somebody who doesn't, 609 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:45,880 um, right. 610 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:46,880 It's knowing to take those steps. 611 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,880 Um, and then actually saying, you know, you don't get what you, you don't get what you 612 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:51,880 deserve. 613 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:52,880 You don't get to what's fair. 614 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,000 You don't get what you negotiate. 615 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:04,600 You know, I, I spent a lot of years in charge of teams and finance gives you a budget and 616 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,840 they say, here you go, split this up how you want. 617 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:13,040 And you want to give your A's a little more, but then HR will say, Hey, how come Sally 618 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,700 is getting 4.8 and Jimmy's only getting 1.2. 619 00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:18,020 That's not fair. 620 00:31:18,020 --> 00:31:21,480 And I'll say, well, here's why, because Sally produces more results than Jimmy. 621 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,040 And I'll have to fight internally, negotiate internally, but you know, whether it's 4.8 622 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,840 or 1.2, you know, that's not going to really change anybody's life. 623 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:33,840 You know, getting a 20% raise, you know, you got to go to your boss and say, how do I get 624 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:34,840 that extra 20%? 625 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:35,840 Ooh, okay. 626 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,480 Now it's not in the 3% yearly budget. 627 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,400 Now I got to go to finance and get an exception. 628 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,480 Now I got to go to HR and talk about why the job description and how you perform that you're 629 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,880 an outlier in a good way. 630 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:51,040 The 20s and 30% are, I don't want to lose you because it's going to cost me 30% more 631 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,000 to go get somebody on the street new. 632 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:58,480 I'd rather give an existing employee 20, 25% than go pay 30% more for a newbie. 633 00:31:58,480 --> 00:31:59,480 Yep. 634 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:06,360 Use the word that I wish more entrepreneurs would seek out or would be less scared of. 635 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:07,480 You said fight. 636 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,200 You almost corrected yourself, but I'm glad you said the word fight. 637 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:20,200 I had a therapist that one of his big claims was fighting in relationships is the fertilizer 638 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,960 of a relationship, you know, which is what? 639 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:23,960 It's the manure. 640 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:29,680 You know, it's the nasty stuff, but it's the reason it's so necessary to help relationships 641 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:35,080 move forward that are built on substance and aren't just surviving. 642 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:36,080 So how do we- 643 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:37,880 Hey, Jax, can I back that up? 644 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:38,880 Go ahead. 645 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,560 Yeah, absolutely. 646 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,960 If you won't fight with somebody, and I'm not saying we should all fight all the time 647 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,080 or make up things to fight about. 648 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,440 I know there are people who make up drama, right? 649 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:51,800 That's a different story. 650 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:57,600 But if you won't put the effort in to say, I disagree with you, if you just go, ah, whatever, 651 00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,680 that's not a real good relationship. 652 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:04,320 If you don't even care enough about the person to say, I think you're wrong, then you don't 653 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,040 have a solid ground. 654 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,120 Bill, my boss and I, I call him my boss. 655 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,580 He's our majority owner, our founder. 656 00:33:10,580 --> 00:33:11,580 We fight regularly. 657 00:33:11,580 --> 00:33:13,960 And you're managing partner, correct? 658 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:14,960 You're managing partner. 659 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:15,960 Yeah. 660 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,040 And we're doing our role and that's just for signing contracts and deals and stuff like 661 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,040 that. 662 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:21,160 But he's founded our company. 663 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:22,160 He taught me to negotiate. 664 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,320 He was one of those trainers who taught young Mike, young buyer Mike, how to be a better 665 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:27,320 negotiator. 666 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,040 I respect him immensely. 667 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,880 But Bill approaches things from a sales perspective. 668 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,120 With a sales mind, Bill's got an MBA from Thunderbird. 669 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,120 I don't have an MBA. 670 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:41,480 And Bill, by the way, grew up in Latin America, speaks Spanish, Portuguese, English. 671 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:42,480 Cool. 672 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,800 Been to 40 countries, not 30. 673 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:52,740 So Bill's approach to things is often different than my procurement guy approach. 674 00:33:52,740 --> 00:33:57,320 So we will disagree vehemently, passionately. 675 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:03,680 At the end of the day, the best idea wins if we can convince the other side that maybe 676 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,640 it's a little better or maybe to try. 677 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:06,640 Let's see. 678 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:07,640 Let's get some data. 679 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:08,640 You would think one thing. 680 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:09,640 I think another thing. 681 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,600 Let's see what the market thinks, because ultimately the market is the one that's going 682 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,280 to tell you if you're right or wrong. 683 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,160 So we raise our voices to each other. 684 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,880 Sometimes we hang up the phone like we used to hang up the phone. 685 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:25,120 Now we hang up the phone or delete the email. 686 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,340 And you get that dopamine fix. 687 00:34:27,340 --> 00:34:29,800 But it's all through love and passion. 688 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:30,800 At least it should be. 689 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,880 When you fight, it should be about I care enough to put some passion into this relationship. 690 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,320 Yeah, I love that. 691 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,280 I'm glad you brought that up. 692 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:43,400 And yeah, Bill Garcia sounds like an interesting man to learn from. 693 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,120 What parts of Central South America did he live? 694 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:47,120 Do you know? 695 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:51,920 Yeah, his father was an executive with General Motors and he grew up in Sao Paulo, Buenos 696 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,320 Aires, and somewhere else in Colombia. 697 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:57,800 And yeah, he spent a lot of he grew up there. 698 00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:58,800 He speaks. 699 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:03,320 In fact, I got to travel to Cuba with him and he speaks fluent Spanish. 700 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:08,040 And I spent 20 minutes in a cab listening to him and a Cuban cab driver just go off 701 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,280 and that built the relationship because we weren't some gringos going down to Havana. 702 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,640 He built that relationship through because Latin cultures, again, very different. 703 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,480 I don't like to stereotype, but they are. 704 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:19,480 Every relationship. 705 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,320 Yeah, different zip codes have different cultures. 706 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:23,320 Absolutely. 707 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:24,320 There you go. 708 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:25,780 So we have to respect that and embrace that. 709 00:35:25,780 --> 00:35:29,260 So he spent the first 20 minutes with me in the cab just looking out the window while 710 00:35:29,260 --> 00:35:32,720 he's building a relationship with the cab driver because in Cuba, you have a if you 711 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:35,960 have a tour guide, if you have a cab driver, you get to see the inside stuff, the good 712 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:36,960 stuff. 713 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:37,960 You get picked up first. 714 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:39,920 It doesn't matter what you pay. 715 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,960 Twenty bucks will keep those cab drivers happy for the day. 716 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,000 That's I mean, it's a poor country. 717 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,200 But boy, if you're the first person to be picked up, if your cab driver will wait for 718 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,760 you, that's high value because now we're making use of our vacation time. 719 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:54,760 Absolutely. 720 00:35:54,760 --> 00:36:00,240 And knowing how to honor people based on their etiquette, based on their circumstances, it 721 00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:01,240 definitely matters. 722 00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:07,920 So well said in regards to programs that you offer opportunities. 723 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,760 I know you help you help sells people move forward their negotiations. 724 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:13,760 What does that look like? 725 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,740 What if an entrepreneur is listening to this and they're considering working with Table 726 00:36:17,740 --> 00:36:21,320 Force or negotiation training dot com? 727 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,800 What should they anticipate is the next step. 728 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,200 So pre covid all we did was in person workshops. 729 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:33,480 Again, 80 20 rule 80 percent of those were two day workshops where they pull their people 730 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,600 out of the field, whether it's a sales kickoff or purchasing. 731 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,840 We're all going to get together and talk about our yearly goals or we're behind on our goals 732 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:45,920 and we got to catch up, whatever the situation was. 733 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,720 And for two days we would talk about negotiating in the context of that customer. 734 00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:52,520 So we've got a couple of differentiators. 735 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:59,080 And one of it is we try to make every class relevant to the people in the class. 736 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:03,580 I've taken open classes, taken the Harvard class, MIT class, taken the Keras class. 737 00:37:03,580 --> 00:37:09,160 They're great classes, great content, but in the class I have to connect the dots back 738 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,400 to my negotiations. 739 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,140 What we try to do is connect the dots for them. 740 00:37:14,140 --> 00:37:19,440 So when I'm with a sales technology company, I'll pull role plays that are about sales 741 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:20,440 technology. 742 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:26,840 We have a library about 100 role plays, all different types of buy sell situations, small, 743 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:32,140 large, you know, twenty thousand dollars, one point two million dollars. 744 00:37:32,140 --> 00:37:37,600 And we'll give them these role plays that help them take the material they just learned 745 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,920 and apply it in a negotiation. 746 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,760 Sometimes people get like bunched up when they hear about role plays. 747 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:44,760 So this is what I tell people. 748 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,600 It's a safe learning environment. 749 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:51,560 So they've learned about some negotiating techniques, learned about a negotiating process, 750 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,200 then they get to use it. 751 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,400 Our safe learning environment is this. 752 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,820 When you're done with the negotiations and we write up all the deals on the board so 753 00:37:58,820 --> 00:38:00,440 you can kind of see how you did. 754 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:05,960 Because the real world, you never get to see how you did relative to other people and you 755 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,660 never get to see how you did relative to the other side of your negotiation. 756 00:38:09,660 --> 00:38:14,800 So we'll write up some data and then if you did something well, you're allowed to take 757 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:16,820 credit for it. 758 00:38:16,820 --> 00:38:21,780 If the other side did something well, you're allowed to give credit for it. 759 00:38:21,780 --> 00:38:26,360 If you failed at something and have the confidence level that you could admit that you failed. 760 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,200 And I love people who can say, hey, listen, I failed at something. 761 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,400 You're allowed to talk about your failure. 762 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,400 And if the other side did something that they could improve upon. 763 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:39,680 There's some people who talk too fast when they're under stress or they talk too high. 764 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,280 Everybody's got to tell. 765 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:43,400 Don't talk about that in public. 766 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:44,920 I want to protect egos. 767 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:49,240 But on a break, at lunch, at dinner, tell the person, hey, by the way, I noticed when 768 00:38:49,240 --> 00:38:54,020 we were negotiating and then whatever the constructive feedback is to be that one to 769 00:38:54,020 --> 00:39:01,580 one coach, but to do that outside of the public area so that people can feel safe to try things 770 00:39:01,580 --> 00:39:05,880 and dare I say fail at things in this role play process. 771 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,040 So we do that for two days. 772 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,140 We wrap a bow on it. 773 00:39:09,140 --> 00:39:11,960 The expectation is the feed. 774 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:12,960 The impact is immediate. 775 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:17,200 In fact, I had one COO in the UK for a tech company. 776 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:18,800 We gave him homework at the end of day one. 777 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,100 We said, go negotiate something. 778 00:39:22,100 --> 00:39:25,800 Could be personal, could be over a bottle of wine, could be a deal. 779 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:34,360 COO comes back the next morning and says, I just saved 60,000 pounds negotiating because 780 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:35,640 of what I learned on day one. 781 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,680 And I said, oh, goody, because day two is even more powerful stuff. 782 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,640 Could have saved even more. 783 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,160 But that's the type of impact that we have. 784 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:50,400 Generally speaking, people pay for themselves the two days that they're there and the class 785 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,240 in the first negotiation they do post-class. 786 00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:53,240 Good. 787 00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:54,240 COVID hit. 788 00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:55,240 Go ahead. 789 00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:57,360 Well, we went to zero overnight. 790 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,120 In March of 2020, we were 80% booked for the year. 791 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:02,120 COVID hit. 792 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,200 And by April, everyone had canceled. 793 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:09,180 Our quality standards are very high. 794 00:40:09,180 --> 00:40:12,740 We think it's the highest, but we don't know everybody. 795 00:40:12,740 --> 00:40:16,280 And we thought video training wasn't as good. 796 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,760 There's no way it can be as good as the in-person product. 797 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,520 So we built out a Zoom session. 798 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,560 Now here's where we failed at first. 799 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:31,940 We took two days in person, and we put it into two eight-hour days back to back in Zoom. 800 00:40:31,940 --> 00:40:35,400 And we learned about Zoom fatigue and about people tuning out. 801 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:42,920 So now we have our Zoom product is three three-hour days with a little break. 802 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:47,000 So you're not in class for more than an hour and a half. 803 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:48,280 And it's all the same content. 804 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,080 The role plays are structured as activities instead of actual formal role plays. 805 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:53,080 But they get all the same content. 806 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:54,440 They get all the same stories. 807 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,400 They just get them in a little different format. 808 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:57,400 Absolutely. 809 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:02,640 So those are the two primary ways that people can experience our negotiation training. 810 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,840 Well, you learned one of your own lessons there, too. 811 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,360 And that was like the 11% increase. 812 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,560 The thought process that video couldn't be as good held you back initially. 813 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:13,560 Absolutely. 814 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:14,560 You tried. 815 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:15,560 The junk in our heads. 816 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:16,560 Right again. 817 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,920 You tell people, yeah, start the class, turn off that voice in your head. 818 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,080 You know, Henry Ford said whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right. 819 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:25,080 Right. 820 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:30,600 And when I say A, B, C, your voice is already a D. Yeah. 821 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,760 And when I say one, two, three, your voice is already at four. 822 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:39,780 There's times in class that I want to shift the paradigm and I want to go A, B, one, two. 823 00:41:39,780 --> 00:41:43,460 And you'll miss it if you listen to your voice instead of mine. 824 00:41:43,460 --> 00:41:47,360 So we got to get out of our own way on a lot of things in life. 825 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,240 That's a life lesson, not just a negotiation lesson. 826 00:41:49,240 --> 00:41:54,040 It's a lot of fun to challenge your brain like that and to make sure that you are shifting 827 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:55,500 the way that you think. 828 00:41:55,500 --> 00:41:58,080 So real quick, I want to circle back to your vision a little bit. 829 00:41:58,080 --> 00:41:59,720 We have a little bit of extra time. 830 00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:04,920 And so your vision of helping others with the negotiation process and ultimately look 831 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,160 for ways to become 1% better each day. 832 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:12,000 Why is that important to you, Mike? 833 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:13,440 I'm kind of blessed in life. 834 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:19,000 I've had a lot of great mentors, I'll say sought out and found a lot of great opportunities 835 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:20,600 for myself. 836 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:24,120 And my life is fantastic. 837 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:28,920 And I see a lot of people struggling and that hurts my heart. 838 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,240 I genuinely want to see people doing better. 839 00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:35,540 What I see a lot of is it's unfair. 840 00:42:35,540 --> 00:42:37,720 So and so makes more than me. 841 00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:41,980 And I go, Hey, when I found out that people made more than me and many people did. 842 00:42:41,980 --> 00:42:43,720 Many people do. 843 00:42:43,720 --> 00:42:48,360 The voice in my head says, Hey, good for you. 844 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:49,660 That's awesome. 845 00:42:49,660 --> 00:42:54,760 And now I have a data point that says, how do I get to that level if that's what I want? 846 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,400 A lot of people focus on salary. 847 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,940 Compensation is so much more than just salary. 848 00:42:59,940 --> 00:43:03,520 But you know, whether it's getting the corner office, whether it's getting the bigger accounts, 849 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:07,640 whether it's getting a different title, whether it's getting more vacation time, whatever 850 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,800 it is that you want to improve upon. 851 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:15,960 I want to help people get there through some simple, practical tools that actually help 852 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:17,560 their relationships as well. 853 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,640 I love it. 854 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:20,640 So I'm getting something out of it. 855 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:21,640 It's dopamine. 856 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,120 I like helping people. 857 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:24,720 I like when I click the like button. 858 00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:28,120 I like when I comment on people on their posts. 859 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:29,120 I enjoy that. 860 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:30,440 I get something out of it. 861 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:35,760 So in negotiations, there's a rule that don't ever give anything without getting something 862 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,600 in return. 863 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,160 I'm getting something in return when I help people. 864 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:41,160 I feel good. 865 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:42,160 And there's values. 866 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,160 It's huge value there, Mike. 867 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:45,160 It's been a pleasure. 868 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,560 Vision pros, those of you listening in. 869 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:52,340 You know, if you know somebody who can improve their negotiation skills, who understands 870 00:43:52,340 --> 00:43:58,040 the value of healthy dialogue, who wants to be able to pull from these points of try, 871 00:43:58,040 --> 00:43:59,320 plan, and raising the bar. 872 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,840 You know, if you have somebody themselves who's working with you that can use some help and 873 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:08,200 guidance, then definitely reference them back to this opportunity to listen in to what Mike's 874 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:09,200 up to. 875 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,200 You can go to negotiationtraining.com and see some of the videos they have on there 876 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:13,720 and the materials that they have on there. 877 00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:19,240 I'm constantly looking for new friends that know how to improve my own communications 878 00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:20,580 and how I can help the market. 879 00:44:20,580 --> 00:44:24,860 So if you need help, reach out to Mike Inman on LinkedIn.com. 880 00:44:24,860 --> 00:44:26,840 Reach out to him on the website, anywhere else that you can. 881 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:31,360 And if you have any questions for us, don't hesitate to hit us up in the comments as well. 882 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:35,580 You know, I'm sure Mike would be happy to jump in to address those. 883 00:44:35,580 --> 00:44:38,240 And we'll also alert him to let you know that you have follow up questions. 884 00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:40,080 So everybody have a fantastic week. 885 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,400 Mike, thank you so much for being here and Vision Pros. 886 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,440 It's always been a pleasure. 887 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:45,440 Thank you very much. 888 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:46,440 Yes, sir. 889 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:47,820 Thank you for being here today. 890 00:44:47,820 --> 00:44:50,280 I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live. 891 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:55,080 I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move forward. 892 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:56,720 This is going to get more and more fun. 893 00:44:56,720 --> 00:44:58,800 We'll have more and more engagement as well. 894 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,080 I invite people to participate in the show and thank you for giving.