I guess favorite fun fact or any fun facts come to mind about you?
My favorite fun fact,
it's always my weird fact is I can bend my pinky all the way backwards.
Really? Can you show us?
Welcome in to Vision Pros Live.
With Jackson Calame, I'm your show host.
We'll be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs and
guests leaders who are building fantastic visions out there.
Ultimately, I just want to go through some of
the things that might help you with your vision.
If you have a vision that you're pursuing,
drop a link in the comments and let us know what that is.
If that's a business or a brand,
if it's a non-profit that you run,
be happy to promote it, be happy to talk to you about it.
If you'd like to apply to be on Vision Pros and be entered to
be interviewed about that vision, then by all means,
feel free to reach out.
Hey, what's up Vision Pros?
Welcome in to Vision Pros Live.
I'm your host Jackson Calame,
CEO and founder of First Class Business.
Super happy to be here today.
We've had an excellent week.
In fact, this podcast is really taking off.
Super happy to have Pua yesterday.
I'm going to highlight her again from Rebel Media because she was
just so awesome and was like,
Jackson, this is the best podcast we've ever seen.
I know there's plenty of great podcasts out there and
lots of people who are doing more than we are,
but we are certainly excited to continue to
build and provide more value for you.
If you have any feedback for us,
anything that you want to see,
anything that we can do better for you, please let us know.
Because after every episode,
we discuss as a team,
how can we make this an even better experience
for the entrepreneurs that we're serving?
What types of people can we bring on the show?
What types of giveaways can we do?
What types of contents do we need to provide and to make sure
that you get the most out of this experience?
Don't hesitate to comment with that.
Doesn't matter how good, bad, or ugly your comments are,
they really mean a lot to us.
We would love to serve you best.
With that said, a quick shout out to our sponsors,
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go check out AbleHealth.us and see
what we're building over there with that program.
Epiphany as well.
Epiphany from Rick Meekins, great friend of mine,
great with business processes.
If your business is doing more than five million per year,
I highly recommend checking out what Rick's up to
with building process and procedures.
He does excellent proposals at very high levels, very in-depth.
He's just got decades and decades of wisdom for
helping businesses scale at super high levels.
Also, make sure to be giving back in the world.
We love to give back to the water project.
It's an opportunity to help people get access to clean drinking water.
Doesn't hurt to give a dollar that you have to the people who need it most in life.
Without further ado, I'm going to bring on Heather Hargrove.
Heather and I met at the Kajabi event.
Kajabi does learning management systems and courses.
We actually randomly sat at the same table together.
I got to meet her, I got to meet Evolve,
I got to meet Marusha,
and we all collaborated together to provide some feedback for Kajabi.
She was just on fire with the type of feedback that she gave.
She does systems and processes as well.
She has quite an awesome funnel to opt into to get your eight emails.
It's eight emails that help you fully automate your business.
It's definitely worth checking out.
We're going to talk about why in just a minute.
Let's get Heather on stage.
Heather, thank you so much for being here today.
I'm happy to reconnect with you.
This is going to be awesome.
Oh, yeah, it is. I'm excited.
I've been looking forward to it once it popped up.
I was like, yes, we're going to talk some more and geek out,
which is always fun. It's like your favorite pastime. I love it.
Absolutely. I always say this is like video game time for me.
Like this, being able to interact with my friends who are building stuff.
The cool thing is we just get paid to do it.
Yes.
Right. So that's what's like being paid to build a board game, so to speak,
because you're creating the rules,
you're creating the processes of what your life is going to be like
and what others' lives are going to unfold like.
So yeah, it's a lot of fun.
What things makes this fun for you? I'm just curious.
I'm a backend geek, like 100%.
It's so weird.
Like you have your front end.
You have your front end warriors, right?
Like that's why I call them like the front end warriors.
Like I can be on camera all day.
I can show up on social and I just have it.
For me, with my PTSD from the military, I was like, I'm a backend person.
I like to just sit there on a Friday night and I'll have a show that I watched
hundreds of times right now.
I'm watching Friends Again for like, I don't even know the number of times,
but I'll just have that going.
And I like to create.
And when I'm creating stuff in the backend, just like testing to see what
I can get the technology to do, how can I think of like other things that maybe
I'm not using it and just really looking at the touch points.
So for me, that's like, that's my fun time.
I even geek out on it with my with my kids.
It's so great.
I love it. And that's the some books call it like the rocket fuel calls
of the integrator visionary relationship, right?
There's a visionary who doesn't want to have anything to do with that sometimes.
Yeah. Right. But they still need an integrator in order to operate the business
and make sure that things are being built correctly.
And while you may not speak that language,
it's so important to learn the language, learn it enough to where you can delegate
that responsibly as a visionary.
So that's a big reason why I was excited to have Heather come on,
because I know a lot of you want to want to hide from these processes.
You want to pull your hair out.
You want to say, man, I really want to get into all that.
The problem is, if you don't, then you're not going to build an effective bridge
for people to find the value of your island of a business with all the other
businesses out there that do have lots of effective bridges in place already.
So you really need it.
So. But I lost my train of thought there, but, oh, Heather,
I want to make sure that we really highlight to who if there's one person
listening or a number of people listening, why should they listen to you?
What is it that you're going to bring a value on this on this session
that they need to hear? Yeah, 100 percent.
So first of all, just so you know, and I think this is the most beneficial part
is to understand that I believe in a world where technology is a conduit
to liberation and not a barrier to progress.
Technology is a conduit to liberation.
So what I heard there is that the programs, the things we have to use
on the Internet is a pipeline, so to speak.
It's it's the mechanism that gets us to freedom.
Yes. For those who I like, my words, the ones I use are pretty small, my friend.
No, I get it. But and it's true.
And what I've noticed and in my time in the online space is the amount of people,
especially if you're starting out, it's it's envisioning what your business
looks like five, ten years down the road. Right.
It's really taking a look at what are what's the life that you're living
and how do we create it in a way where you get to live your life
while you grow your business and you're not burning yourself out
and you get to serve at scale, but you're not exhausted.
And you're not, you know, the the people that we see on a regular basis
where we're like, oh, what happened to that person?
And then we looked we looked them up and they quit their their coaching business
or they quit their business because they were like, I just couldn't do it.
I was working all the time.
And I'm like, you don't have to work all the time. Right.
Don't have to do things they do.
And they're stuck on that.
And you nailed it. And Jaime, can you pull up the website?
Because I love your first question and also really highlights
the type of person that, you know, you're striving to find out there.
And so ultimately, if you're in a position where you're ready
to automate, you're ready to scale and you really want to fall
in love with your business again, I cannot I cannot stress enough.
If you don't know what this means, be prepared to go through the process
of losing sight of the importance of your business towards your life
and getting sucked in to a cyclone where you do lose sight.
This again word, it's so powerful, it's so important.
I know people who are ready get it.
People have been through the three to five year struggle of a business.
They don't quite understand what this means.
And they may not appreciate the value of the wisdom you're throwing down
by asking this question.
But when you get caught up in the monotony and the day to day
and feeling like you have to do everything, it's so easy to lose sight
of why you loved your business, why you started to begin with
and what you wanted.
And so you're you know, you're ultimately a key
to helping people get back on track.
What does that look like?
It's really taking a hard look at what it is that you're doing
on a constant basis and really honing in on what
what are we doing to within our business that we're showing up
because we feel like we need to overdeliver because we don't have those systems
and processes in place.
Because when you don't have certain things put in place,
you're automatically showing up even more.
You're like, this isn't working right.
And I got to do more and I have to do more and I have to feel
like I'm just serving so much more when, in fact,
they don't need you to serve more.
They just need you to think a little bit about their customer journey
ahead of time and just create a flow that takes them on that path
without you having to be present.
And they're still going to feel like you're there all the time,
but you don't have to be.
And it's that overdeliver mentality that really starts to make people exhausted
because they're they're overcompensating for what they feel like they're lacking.
And it's what I call that I'm official feeling.
When you start to create certain things in your business, all of a sudden,
you show up and you're like, I'm official.
It's great. I can charge more.
I can do this and do that.
And until you start implementing things like an owner.
In a business, you don't have that feeling and you just tend to want to do more work,
which you don't need to be doing.
Right. Shifting from operator mentality around the one has to do everything
to that ownership mentality where you own it, but you don't necessarily have to be in it
or or with it. It just happens to be yours.
I love that. And so with your with your personality, it's interesting because
you when at the conference, at least you're out there, you're like, really talk, you know,
you're ready to get after it.
And at the same time, you're not hasty.
And that's something that's very interesting to me.
You are a meditator. You're a ponderer.
You know, you don't get to these deep realities without having a set of patients
built into you, you know, that really dive in depth into the depths of concepts.
So have you which did you gravitate towards one or the other when you were younger or,
you know, have you always had that balance of depth with, well, let's go.
Right. No, when I was younger, I didn't really think about I just dove right in.
I think it was after being in the military, a lot of it happened with the transition and.
Seeing like the thought process behind the things that you're doing, you know,
service like I deployed twice, I was in a war like there were so many different things that happen.
And from there, I really was able to see how stepping back and thinking about the picture
as a whole and taking my time to really evaluate the possibilities.
So that way I can make an informed decision so I can try to predict a thing that may go wrong.
And it just really meshed well when I got into business and even when I was in the corporate world,
like I was in the corporate world for over two decades.
And it was just something that like little by little, I was just able to like sit back and be like,
why are we doing it this way? Does this even make sense?
How about we alleviate this and we combine this and then we can work better.
And then when I went out on my own, I was like, oh, like there's even more you can do with that.
And when you have the ability to create a business with the way that you want to,
with all the tools that are out there, instead of trying to take it up the corporate ladder
and being like, hey, let's do that.
You can move in a direction that always feels good.
And if it doesn't feel good, I am the first person to say, try it.
If it's not working, get rid of it as soon as possible.
But the fact is, try it, give it a go.
And what feels good, go deeper and further.
What doesn't feel good, alleviate and call it a day.
That's profound.
There's a lot of profound topics we're going to dive into about what just happened.
First things first, thank you for your service.
Seriously.
It means a lot. I'm just a civilian. You know, and when I say that, not to disrespect us civilians,
but the sacrifices that you go through and the things that you do to make sure that we were safe
and provided for, it means a lot.
And the military background, it's an interesting one because it sounds like it gave you the
evaluation. I can see how it would have been if it was a military service.
It sounds like it gave you the evaluation. I can see how it would have a profound effect
on comprehension analysis, right? And giving you the gift of the opportunity to learn it.
Not that everybody learns it by going through that experience, but you really seem to have honed
that where, again, you're going into a situation where you might die, where the decision matters
a lot to the point of death.
And so you have to consider what should my notes be before you make them.
And you're training daily, monthly, weekly, however much it was, but you were training
your mind for that reality. And then you've been able to take that skill set.
You applied it to corporate. What I find interesting about you, Heather, is that a
lot of my military friends that I've, or people that I've talked to who've been in the military,
they sometimes struggle to come back and transition to society.
I get into a corporate job or become an entrepreneur, many different reasons involved.
But one of the ones that I've seen is common is they either fall into line, they need that
structure of somebody to guide them, or they are sick of it.
They don't want anybody to tell them what to do anymore.
And so you were there in corporate, and it sounds like you were making waves by saying,
hey, why are we doing it this way? You're willing to go against the system.
And you're able to also figure out that, you know what, I'm probably going to be more effective at
this on my own, but there's some depths of leadership. You're not mad about it. You're not
talking bad about the corporate experience. There's just some type of abundance about you.
Can you walk us through that? How did you get there?
Sometimes I feel like it was, oh, but no choice. You live in a world, and I got out of the military
experience and I just started maneuvering through and I found what I enjoyed. There's little pieces
of different things, and I like to see the beauty. And when you show up, you're like,
what am I enjoying today? What were some of those?
Oh, customer experience. Huge customer experience. Customer journey is always one. And I spent four
years working at Enterprise Rent-A-Car. And they're huge on it. And with them,
it was seeing the way that they empowered management and even the employees to be able to
help out with the customer experience and the customer journey without having to go and being
like, hey, this person had a bad experience. Can I do this? You can take it upon yourself
and just make the decision to support the cause and to create this experience for them.
And then when I went into education, while I was working on my master's degree, I went into and I
was helping people enroll in education. And from there, there's a space of time between when you
sign up to when you start. And this is like with most coaching programs, right? Like where people
and people sign up to when they start, like depending on when it goes. But it was interesting
because once they sign up until they start, there's this time period. And it's like, how do we create
this experience? And it was just being able to touch those lives and keep them excited about the
prospect of what they chose to enroll in and how those systems would be put in place and the same
thing. So then from there, I went to like logistics and it's like I was in over the road logistics.
So when you're driving by and you see those trucks on the road and they're just shipping,
right? Everything from containers on the water to trucks over the road. And you're literally selling
to a customer over and over and over and over again, because once they're your customer,
that doesn't mean that they're going to ship their next shipment with you. So you have to provide
value, customer service, support communication. And it was just something about the feeling of
providing that value that always excited me. And what I like to have it roll over to was then the
value of how are we supporting people that work with us? Like, why is it only customer centric?
How are we providing support, direction, onboarding, like for the people that are working
within the organization too? And that's when I started to play with how is the organization set
up? What are we doing that doesn't make sense? How do we have these different locations talk to each
other and communicate? And from there, once I started on my own seeing like all the under use,
we weren't using a lot of the technology that was available, like corporate America doesn't.
It's just they don't do it a majority of the time. And when I saw that, like what the options were,
I was like, man, the creativity and the opportunities, like instead of making people
work more, I never understood why we didn't utilize technology to help our people work less
within corporate America. So that was really a big, I was like, because that was even in the
military where things didn't make sense. We're like, we want you in the motor pool, which I was a
mechanic. Yes, I was. So when we're in the motor pool, we're like, we want you in here, even if
you're not doing anything, just because. And to me, I'm like, that does not make sense. Like
there's going to be times where we have to stay late and we have to do things longer.
Why not on the opportunities where we don't, you tell us to go live our best lives or leave for two
hours and then come back or whatever it is. So I just started to know that notice that there was
these like little things and just the opportunity to like help people each day. Like how can I serve?
How can I help you? Whether it's a customer or somebody that I was working with, that's what
really, cause it was all about just helping. And there was the same thing just kept going over.
And as long as I was able to do that, it was exciting for me each day. It was the days when
I couldn't help when I felt like things were off and like everything went awry that I was like, man,
like what could we have done different? That would have made this whole much better.
Right. I love that. And so you have this appreciation for the good that's there.
And at the same time, the appreciation for the opportunity to optimize it.
You also seem to communicate that much better than I did 12 years ago when I was starting to
really open my mouth too much about things. So good for you. I've got goals.
So the high means like, please Jackson, like take some notes, man, be nicer about your,
about your feedback. So the, all right. So we, we covered a lot of the learning experience on that.
And it sounds again, like the, so the opportunity is let's utilize technology in order to improve
lives, not in order to get in the way of the lives. And that's what often happens with technology.
It gets implemented in a way where it's interrupting the consumer experience and the humanity
rather than contributing to pulling the humanity together. I would say Stream Yard is an example
of pulling humanity together in a great way. Right. So here we are able to produce this podcast,
able to get out there, able to connect with each other. And it's actually quite easy to set up.
And so it's, it's one of those opportunities where it's like the technology has empowered
us to make friends throughout the world. And so it's like, you know,
it's a way that, that streamlines a process that while it's not in person, it's as close
to in person as, you know, I've ever experienced. So you're, you're looking at these systems, tools,
opportunities for business owners to say, okay, where can we eliminate some of the friction
that exists in these processes so that people have a smooth process of moving forward.
And I absolutely love that shifting gears, corporate to business ownership. That's a big
jump for people. I mean, it's like, whoa, you go from enterprise, you know, to, and renting cars
out to people to the pathway that got you to where you got to, but let's get right to the doubts,
fears, or certainty that you had with going into entrepreneurship and making that jump as a
visionary to, you know what, and did you know you wanted to be an entrepreneur? Did you call
yourself a business owner? Did you call yourself a freelancer? You know, I went through a whole
series of titles before I finally accepted the entrepreneurship program. And I was like,
I finally accepted the entrepreneurship one. Oh, my journey is so funny. And you're going to be
like, Heather, I thought you were more calculated than that. And you like, you actually took time
to sit back. What had happened was I never thought about being an entrepreneur. It was not in my
family. I thought I was going to grow in corporate America. I envisioned myself being CEO of some big
corporation. Like I was going to be in charge of something. It was fine. It would have happened.
However, I happened to be in Nashville. And I was at the Gaylord in Nashville, and I think it was
2018, 2019, something along that line. And Funnel Hacking Live was there. And I was there for a whole
different conference. And so I'm hearing all these crazy people screaming. And I'm like,
what is going on? So I go and talk to them. And I talked to a couple people. So then I made the
mistake of going back to my room and Googling. And Russell Brunson told me I could take over the
world. So I had never really been in... With a potato gun. Correct. I know. It's funny, like you get to know all
the stories. But technology was not my jam. Like I joined Facebook because my parents did when I had
kids, because that was an easier way for me to update them with what was going on. Absolutely.
We weren't really using email autoresponders. And the only thing I thought about websites was you
needed to know how to code. And I'm like, not happening. That's not my jam. So although I do
tech, I don't code. But for me, seeing the possibility of being able to create your business
online without having to have a huge team and pay a bunch of people to do all... For me, it was like,
that was the initial part. So I'm like, to start that part. And I was like, okay, let me figure it
out. So I Googled it. Two months later, quit my job. Single parent of two kids at the time,
quit my job, drained my 401k. Had no idea what people were going to want to pay me for in my
own business. I just started going. And I was learning. And I was like, I just don't want to
work 24 seven anymore. I don't want to be sitting at a table with my kids trying to eat dinner and
have to take a work call. I don't want to miss things anymore. I want my own life. I want to
create something where I can be home and I can do things that I enjoy and not like all the others.
So did that. Then went to Funnel Hacking Live as a participant a year later. And then COVID just
destroyed the world. We were like, everything paused. The weird thing was that was perfect
timing because everybody was then going online. And I just kept seeing what, once again, what
feels good, I did more of that. And what didn't feel good, I did less of that. And then I just
kept investing in myself and being like, how do I create something? And little by little, I was like,
oh, like, I'm really good at this. Like I taught myself in a span of not even a year, like everything
from like many chats, Zappier, ClickFunnels, LeadPages, Kajabi. And then there's so much more,
like GroupConvert, all the other different things. Like any platform that's a SaaS platform, I'm like,
if it's a SaaS, it's fine. I can work it. And then from there, it was just opting into people's stuff,
like seven and eight figure business owners, and really seeing the journey that they take people
on. And I'm like, oh, like, I see the touch points. I see the things, like, I know why you do this.
And sometimes I even send them unsolicited advice. I'm like, hey, this thing is broken.
Can you fix it? But and then I realized, like, well, I'll hang around with other coaches and
course creators that were not in that realm. I'm like, they're once again, the visionaries,
they're great at what they do. This piece, they don't even know about it. Like they don't see the
same stuff that I see. So like, for me, I was just able to put it together. And then next thing,
you know, that's what I was doing. I was like, I love this. I could do this all day. Like,
getting on my tech calls with my clients where we're like, getting in there and like connecting
that, oh, like energy, just, it just lights me up. Yeah. And then next thing, you know, my eight
year old is building a Wix website, writing out email, like, I'm like, I'm teaching them all the,
and they're like, mom, this is great. And I'm like, I know, but I had no, no clue until it happened.
Right. And school didn't know how to teach us these things. You know, people say these things
aren't taught in school and they get all feisty about it. And it's like, well, no, duh. Like they,
there's a lot of fundamentals of life, you know, that they're trying to establish and
report curriculums. And, you know, they're, they're not making money the way that we might
think they are, I guess. And all these, these teachers to figure everything out. So if we're
not, if we're not educating our children about the opportunities that exist that are on the forefront,
right. We're the pioneers as parents to figure that out. So that's so cool that you're
incorporating. I was just talking to somebody about how finally I'm paying attention to ChatGPT
at a bigger level. And I'm so surprised I'm saying that on this podcast because I'm like,
I'm judging you a little bit right now. I love ChatGPT. Well, see, and I was, I don't like fads.
And so last year I started playing with it and I was like, this is pretty awesome, you know, and I,
but I don't want to get distracted. I'm productive. That's why I'm profitable, right? I need the same
productivity more. So I learned about it enough to, and I started seeing news on about like crazy,
like stupid fad. I mean, I don't, I don't listen to mainstream news very carefully, but it stayed
around so long. And then Charlie Chang at the Kajabi event, he was there and all of a sudden
he pops up on my YouTube while I'm watching something about podcasting. And he's talking
about 15 tips on how to use ChatGPT and kind of blew my mind. This just happened two nights ago.
And so I sent, I sent it all to my team and I said, okay, guys, you guys need to really start
paying attention to ChatGPT, how it can help us with translation and this and that and the other.
But you, you know, like what you're doing with your kids, again, just doubling down on that for
the parents who are listening, you know, like I'm going to be talking to my kids about ChatGPT,
you know, and let them like, let them play with it and see how this thing is going to incorporate
into their lives because it's like the internet itself. And if they get ahead of that curve,
like you have with SaaS companies, you know, and your different systems,
then you become an intrinsic value in terms of your skills and services beyond just the
fact that you're a human being. Like now you've got an unfair advantage of the market. So thank
you for bringing that up. Oh yeah. And it's funny because usually I always call myself like,
I was never an early adapter. Like when it comes to things like iPhones, don't, I'm not
setting a line for it and all the other things like when NFTs happen and all that, like I weighed,
I was like, I did not get into that. I know what it is. I understand it. Couldn't get into it.
But for some reason, as soon as I started seeing stuff with ChatGPT, I was like, Ooh,
because I know what slows me down. And here's the thing with that. So for you, that would have been
a distraction for me was an accelerant. Right. Exactly. And yeah, but then there's also other
platforms that do it. So what I noticed, so when we were in Austin, I had two events. And so after
I left Kajabi, I went to the event that I'm going to mastermind with to their live event. And we had
the CMO of Jasper there, amazing conversation going over AI and everything like that. And I legit
went up to him and I was like, and once again, everyone has a different user experience preference.
So the way that you pick a platform is based off of how you like to work, how your mind works,
your user experience. They all do the same thing. They're just a little bit different. And I went
up to him and I was like, um, tried Jasper years ago, didn't like it, hate the user experience.
And it was funny because I even after he was talking about what they were implementing with it,
I was like, let me give it another go and got in a free trial. And I was like, no, like for me,
chat GBT is the quickest way to just ask it a question, get feedback and get information
without having to go down like a seven day rabbit hole of trying to figure out how to use the,
like how to really make the most of it. Right. And yeah, like the beauty of it is like what,
but you can create with it. And then with the plugins, there's like 49 pages of plugins on
that sucker right now, which is crazy because about a month ago there was only like 16 pages.
Well, that's what's cool about too, about what I love about your skillset and how you approach it
is you seem to be very system agnostic. Um, and you know, you're looking for the best tools for
the, you know, the sake of the people that you serve. And I have the same style of approach.
It's like, I love Kajabi. Don't get me wrong. I love it. I love it. Now with the culture, I'm like,
oh my gosh, this is amazing. I want this company to win. And at the same time it's business. It's
not personal. If they get behind the times, if they're not using what they need to, we're going
to move to the platforms that are necessary to again, further connect humanity with what we're
doing. And that's not a threat. That's a reality. We need to be moving towards what is optimized for
everybody's greater good and success. So, um, and I, I don't mind people who have that allegiance and
loyalty of like, Hey, I'm not looking anywhere else. But again, to see somebody who's passionate
about the experience itself, not just the platform. That's what, that's what I hope again, everybody
listening gets to hear is it's, you know, you're somebody who is going to be looking at the stock
market as a whole, so to speak of assets that exist for businesses and constantly looking at
it. Is this going to help my client or not? And then suggest accordingly to, to the needs of those
you serve. So, so cool. I didn't really give you a question there, but I'm like, no, you're good.
I'm like, get it. That's fine. Go ahead. Love it. I'm loving what you're putting out there. So, um,
let's see here. So on Facebook, I thought this was also cool. You've got, you got the opt in here.
If we scroll down, hi me a little bit to that post. Um, the next post down there, it's got 800
something comments on it for people who are saying, Hey, um, you know, we would love to have this.
This is that eight email sequence, um, to install for the six figure coaching clients who are looking
to fully automate again, not to become robots, not to completely eliminate the need to talk to human
beings or work with human beings, but to on, to fully automate the onboarding and upsell process.
And here's my take on that. Um, if the process of onboarding goes that smoothly and the upsell
process goes that smoothly to where I deliver a first-class experience, um, you know, to the
prospect and to the client on the front end, how much happier are they going to be when they
actually do interact with me and I show up ready to go, not stressed by systems, not stressed by
the process, not having to tell them all the basics. Um, that's what I see happening is you're
creating raving fans. Um, so what, uh, what books would you recommend?
To help the audience or YouTube channels or courses, whatever mechanism you've utilized,
what would you recommend people study to understand how to enhance the customer experience?
Ooh, the fun stuff. So one of my favorite words, so, um, I like, and I always, I hope I never
butcher the name, but near E-all's hooked.
Hooked.
I'm looking it up now.
And especially for those that you have, and this is where I really got into,
those touch points and that experience and how do we bring people back in? So when people are
signing up to work with us, right. And the way that he discusses it is more to with like apps
and stuff like that. To me, I translate it into programs and delivery. And I'm like, okay,
somebody signs up for your program, whether it's hands-on done for you, or even a course,
how are we always bringing them back in to get them hooked to always log in?
Like how many times have you bought in something barely got an email and completely forgot you
opted into a thing and you don't go back and you use it.
First world problems.
Correct. But yes. So, right. Um, but
I wasn't until Brendan Burchard, you know, you were there for it. We're in the VIP and he's like,
and this is my funnel. And I was like, I bought that.
Yep.
It was good, but I like, I barely looked at it, you know?
And that's the thing. Like if we remind people to come back through and be like, hey, you have
this thing and here's what I recommend to you on like day two, you're bringing them back in to
where eventually there it's like a habit of, oh, I, I remember that I can log into that and get an
answer to X, Y, and Z question. Right. So hooked is really, really good. And I love it at the
beginning where they're like, um, we hope that uses, you know, this information for good and not evil.
Right. So you were not getting people hooked to the wrong things. Like when you talk about
algorithms, right. And stuff along that line. But how do we, you know,
how do we capture their attention from the beginning to keep them coming back and keep them
engaged and keep them working with us. So that was my, so that was a really big touch point thing
for me when it came to, especially with like a majority of my clients, they're high ticket coaches,
but they supplement with a course. So how do we make sure your people notice like in the military,
one thing that we were always taught when you have a question, did you look three other places
before I went to my NCO and ask them like the question, that's the first question. They're like,
where else did you look for this information? So for me, for some reason, I get excited about
teaching people how to find that information. And then from there, how to take that information and
come to a call and ask a specific question based off of that. So you can move faster. So that's,
that's one that I just really, really love and have a good time.
I'm actually going to show it for a minute and I'm actually going to buy it. Um,
while we're talking, because I, there's a couple of reasons why it's not just the fact that the
book was referenced, um, that I have a system for how I buy books, but we'll, we'll talk,
we'll talk about why this book is going right into my audible, um, in just a second. But you also
mentioned the fact that they break down in the book about the, not using this stuff to do evil,
right? It's a resource, right? It's a resource. You can use fire to, to burn things and destroy.
You can use fire to create light. Um, you know, there, there's so many great things you can do
with resources, so many bad things. It's up to you, the user to decide how you're going to use it.
Um, and I think it's so important and, um, I don't mean to, this is not a burn, but again,
back to that optimization. And I love that you went up to that, that, uh, I don't know which one
you were talking to, but you wanted to me to say that, oh, Jasper, um, you know, like love this,
love this, hate this. Um, right. Bill Gates says that you're the people who hate your product in
your service. Like you gotta listen carefully. Like they are giving you a golden gift of how
to improve. Um, and if you can not take it personal, you know, not get offended by it,
but hear them out and understand you can probably like, and I'm adding to his words,
but you can then start to optimize and create something that they could love and would love.
So Brendan did an excellent job at the conference of teaching us about his super simple five slides.
Um, right. He's a very good teacher and I was really excited. I came home and I was like,
all right, let's get this deadline sequence in place. Let's get this process in place and let's
make sure to model what Brandon's doing. And you know, this again, it's going to sound like a roast,
but it's, it's just me exposing the reality of his funnel. And it, it really irked me. And I was
like, man, how do I, how do I sit with this? Because I go and look at his process and I'm going to
share my email here. Um, the legends help you build your personal brand 72 outer notice, right? It's
all about helping people understand the scarcity and it's get 50% off and you get, you know,
you can only get it as one time offer for one 97. And so I clicked the link and it's now weeks and
weeks later and I can still buy the damn thing. That is a reputation destroyer. And I don't care
what level you are. I'm like that, and he didn't, he probably doesn't mean to maybe he's made a
mistake with it, but we've got to be careful. Um, with how we're putting things out there because,
and I really like him. We're still, I'm still excited to go to his conference. Um, I'm going
to be there champion in the way. Like he's a, I think he's a great guy. I love him. And,
and I hope that he optimizes this because that's that type of thing that people, it's hard not to
say like, wow, like that's an evil move. He made me buy this. Um, you know, when, uh, let me see
her share this tab. I didn't do that. There we go. So here's that offer $197. And it's like, man,
if he optimized this right to where it had a legitimate sense of scarcity, then now he's not
throwing his reputation on the bus, but he's making sure that his user experience is truly
authentic. And so I'm, I'm, I'm just like dying to read this book because, um, that's, that's,
those are the principles I want to keep building on, but here's why there's 8,000 ratings on this
book and how to build a habit forming products. If you can turn your product into a healthy habit.
There we go. We got it. We're good to go. So then you can allow people to start, you know,
adopting a way of life more than, you know, a product itself or more than just a system.
They're actually making a behavioral change. Um, and so the concept of, I was like, oh my goodness,
this is gamification, but not based on, again, by saying games, but based on, again, a little
bit of a higher principle, in my opinion of the habit. Maybe they're not, maybe they go hand in
hand. I like being playful too. Um, but my mind is now racing things to you. Um, so I appreciate,
I appreciate that a lot. Oh, a hundred percent. You're going to love it. I already have a feeling
you're going to read through it and you're like, Ooh, what do I want to play with an implement?
Like every five minutes, just so you know, like that's me and reading. I'm like, I take forever
because I'm, I'm consuming it, but I almost like memorize the book and the process. I've been going
back and rereading because that was one thing I learned recently is like taking the first,
like read the first three chapters and then I'll go back and read the same three chapters again,
before I even move on and then I'll reread it. So yeah, there's certain ones. So once like I have
friends that read tons of books and I'm just like me, no slower. And I'm like, what's the one
specific thing that I want to learn right now and how do I take action and implement on it? And it's
so much fun. I love it. Yeah. I take notes, um, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like,
I take notes as they read or I'll send audio clips to my team. Um, also delegate books, um, right.
And, and allow them to read it and then share back the recap with me of what, how it applies to us.
And so there's, there's a lot of ways we can consume, uh, the information now back to the
ethical offers. I was just finding with, uh, Ashley of the TAO publishing. Um, and she's
absolutely amazing. She's one of my best students of all time, um, to, to become an entrepreneur.
And we're talking about this ethics of scarcity as well. And she said, oh, like, like Amazon has a
great system in place. Um, and she starts teaching me about how Amazon for their books, caps your
ability to provide discounts, um, for certain periods in certain ways. And I was like, Oh my
gosh, like that's the model. That's the model I've been, I've been missing and wanting. And so
we're creating this thing called powerfully ethical scarcity. Um, and we're going to take
and why it's not because Amazon's not evil. I don't, I don't get in the whole good versus evil
battles, but it's because they're so regulated at that level. They've created a model that has been
tested with hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars of user experience to know that this
is a scarcity play that people will appreciate and that they're used to, which again, if you can,
if you can build that model into what you do now, you're, you're building with the best of them,
so to speak. But if we can take that and one up it even better. Oh, I mean, that's what I look
like. All right. Can I take that concept and then improvise it, you know, optimize it to move to
that next level? Like, awesome. So you're going to be one of those secret weapon people that I turn
to. And I'm like, Hey, how do I, you know, what would you do to this? What would you do to improve
it? Is that fair? Oh, that's a hundred percent fair. I'm too, I love playing. I'm like, to me,
I'm like, that's what I put on my head. And I'm like, I sit there and I just geek out.
But one thing, and this is like with anything, and when it comes to scarcity and like what you
said, it's like, what feels good, right? Like for you, what you saw when you were able to still get
the same thing, although it was past 72 hours, like how did that, that made you feel some kind of way?
So for me, like, and this is where everybody has their own thing, like, and I've had conversations
with individuals where they've asked me, they're like, do you discount? I'm like, I don't, I don't
ever, ever discount. But what I do is provide. So what I found that feels good for me is,
because especially there's people that like to pay in full and if they pay in full, they're like,
what's the added value? Do I get a discount? And that's when I really had to sit with it and be
like, what does that feel like for me? But also what does that feel like for them? Like, is my
services not good as much if they pay in full what they're delivering? So what I felt gave the most
sense and this is where you get to play with it as a business owner is instead of discounting,
I give them more time in the container. Add value. Yes. I give them additional time
and where we can work on additional things, right? And instead of like to be like that, so
it's just however it plays out, but I feel you on the same way. So it's like for me and like,
when I'm talking about marketing, last minute stuff, like you really have to sit with what feels good,
but I am excited to geek out on the Amazon stuff because I haven't been able to play with that.
And I've been looking at writing a book. So at some point that's going to happen and looking at
the different things, right? It's always like, what's the next logical step, right? So then it's
looking at that when you reach that point, but I would love to geek out on that and take a look at
the flow. A hundred percent. Cool. Awesome. Oh, we will. Oh, absolutely. I'll be excited to have you.
I hope that there's an opportunity. If you have a community too, by all means, let us know about
that. We do have one called first-class businesses. We just started putting the true value together
for that. There's about 60 members right now. So it's baby. I've started, stopped, started,
stopped, shifted. And we just weren't at the point where we knew enough about the principles
of rules for community. Priya Parker, thank you. Right. I think Kajali did awesome with that.
Amazing. I didn't have the full capacity to understand the type of value that was necessary
to pull that together in a way where people could interact in a way that was beneficial for
everybody. And so we're striving to build that. And if you want to join us in there, awesome.
I know we'll be distributing the episode in there. So it's also great for you to get to know people
in there. And I interviewed Pula yesterday. We do the same thing for business. Our business models
are almost identical. And she, for a minute, was like, oh, are we getting away? I was like, no.
I was like, if people want to work with you, that's phenomenal. If you make somebody a billion
dollars and they want to make room for us as a subcontractor, fantastic. If we want to work
with somebody and we want to bring you in, fantastic. I don't have a sense of competitors
in the world. I love to compete, but it's got to be healthy. We have friends in the process.
Otherwise, I don't even want to be around you. So Heather, thank you so much for being here,
for blessings with your time. And we'll, of course, stay in touch. Anybody who wants to reach out to
Heather, Facebook is the best place to reach out to her, she said. I've seen her on LinkedIn as
well. So you're a platform of choice from a customer experience standpoint. I'm sure that
also matters. And then, of course, you can opt in and get that eight email sequence. It can do
wonders when you optimize your funnel in a way that nurtures people forward and allows them to
really connect with your brand before they get to meet you. So Heather, thank you for teaching us
all that you did. And Vision Pros have a fantastic time building this week. We will see you on the
next episode. Bye-bye. Thank you for being here today. I'm really happy that you tuned in to
Vision Pros Live. I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes continue to move
forward. We optimize them as the months go by. This is going to get more and more fun. We'll have
more and more engagement as well. We'll invite people to participate in the show. And thank you.