I'm pay to a company out of the UK.
So.
Awesome.
Oh, very cool.
What are you most excited to share with people on the show?
Oh, I just love to share my story and hopefully inspire others because, um, you
know, I love to travel and I love business and having, but now I've been
able to combine that.
All right.
Welcome in to Vision Pros Live.
The Jackson Calame, I'm your show host.
We will be doing interviews for visionary entrepreneurs and guests, guest
leaders who are building fantastic visions out there.
Ultimately, I just want to go through some of the things that might help you
with your vision.
If you have a vision that you're pursuing, drop a link in the comments and
let us know what that is.
If that's a business or a brand, um, if it's a nonprofit that you run, be happy
to promote it, be happy to talk to you about it.
And if you'd like to apply to be on Vision Pros and be interviewed about that
vision, then by all means feel free to reach out.
Hey, what's up Vision Pros and welcome in.
I'm your host, Jackson Calame, founder of First Class Business.
I'm so excited to have Kate McGregor on of Out of Office.
Um, she's based out of New Zealand.
She builds courses and creates products with people exclusively in Kajabi.
Um, great platform by the way, I'm excited to talk to her about the growth
of both that platform and what she's doing and her continued, uh, insights
perhaps into where Kajabi's going with that.
Um, it's a learning management system.
If you're a course grader, it's a great place to get started.
But even if you want to get started with super easy tools, it's important to
recognize there's just so much to do when you're trying to build and trying
to promote yourself and trying to promote what it is you're putting out
in the world and sustain your students or your alumni or your members or
whatever you want to call the people that are learning from you.
There's always so much to do.
It's great to have a super team behind you and she represents one of those super
teams.
So we'll be bringing her out in just a minute.
Uh, another shout out to our sponsors Epiphany and ablehealth.us.
Uh, both of them are on the screen up here right above my head.
Um, you can check both those out.
And of course we would love to see you contribute to get my hand in the right
place, the water project.
Um, so if you have an extra dollar to spare, please help those who do not have,
um, you know, water, clean drinking water, uh, water to wash their clothes with
things like that.
It's really, really cool what the water project is up to.
You can actually see exactly how their program works and following real time.
What happens with the donation that you contribute to those projects.
So, um, my voice sounds a little bit off because I actually have strep throat
today, um, and not fun.
Um, but it's still important to show up and provide value.
I've taken most of the day off, um, letting my sore sore throat soothe with
different teas, um, and different.
Let the team take care of things, but, uh, at the same time we have, as they say,
the show must go on.
Um, so I'm happy to be here.
I'm excited for Kate to come on.
I'm excited for the value we're going to put down today.
So thank you for being here.
Thank you for honoring me with your time.
We're going to do the same and throughout some of our value today.
So Kate, without further ado, thank you so much for being here.
I'm glad to have you on the show and I'm glad I can't pass the strep throat to
you through the screen.
What a wonderful thing.
Um, so Kate, good to have you today.
Hey everyone.
Hey, thanks so much, Jackson.
Yeah, your strep throat.
Oh, I'm so sorry.
Hey, that's all right.
That's all right.
We are in office today.
We're not out of the office, but it is fun to be able to, of course, take those
types of breaks when we need them, when we want them right now.
There's really no place that would rather be here than talking to you and Jaime, um,
and throwing down values.
So, um, Kate, talk to me.
What, what are you most excited to give people today and what should people,
what should people, who, who are the types of people that should be listening
and why should they listen to you?
Well, I think, um, we connected at the Kajabi conference.
Uh, I'm a big Kajabi fan.
So anyone that is already using Kajabi or looking for an all on one management
system, um, for their online digital products is a good place to start.
But a big part of, uh, my Y and my business name as well is about having that.
I don't like to say business life, uh, balance, but because I don't believe
there is anymore, uh, you know, a balance that we're trying to achieve.
I think it's all merged in together.
So those that are just trying to really enjoy their lives now, not waiting from
the nine to five end of year end of retirement, um, time when we may not have
that it's never promised for us.
So that's really big part of, uh, of my, what I talk to is, um, maximizing
your time so that you can be doing as much of what you love to do.
Yes.
I love that.
So the, uh, again, out of office and being able to have, uh, you said,
maybe not a balance, um, but the ability to focus in on what's most important
in life, talk to me more about that.
Yeah.
I think, um, for me, I'll talk to my story a little bit, um, for the longest
time I worked in, um, corporate and, uh, projects as admin coordinator,
manager, um, governments.
Uh, yeah, also it's, uh, lots of really cool industries that I worked all
the hours and all the weekends though.
So I was constant burnout.
Um, and I love to travel.
So I had worked in the travel industry.
I worked in the conference industry.
Um, and eventually I was like, I just need to find a way that I can actually
enjoy my travel and still be able to live, make money, earn online.
So I started the entrepreneurial route about five, six years ago.
Um, and, uh, I started helping people online with the skills that I had,
like a virtual assistant, social media, and eventually just kind of, um,
meet and found my people and my audience in helping people with their
online businesses on Kajabi.
What that's allowed me to do is work from anywhere.
My business name is out of office.
I love to travel, as I said.
So I've been able to actually my ultimate, I hate winter.
So I try to escape New Zealand every winter.
Um, and I think some people call that snowbirds or endless summer.
Uh, that's, that's what I do.
So, um, except with the exception of this winter, I am, I'm holding it out
in New Zealand for personal reasons, but, um, yeah.
So that's, that's where I've got to, and, um, that is now, you know,
although it started as my why, it's also something I'm really passionate
about for the people that I help.
Interesting.
Them getting more of that life balance as well.
So, uh, by me being able to help them or escalate the support that they get,
then, then they freeze them up to have some more lovely time that they don't
need to get frustrated with technical issues and things.
So how many years have you been building on the Kajabi platform now?
Um, five years on the Kajabi platform.
Yeah.
Um, started out myself actually looking at Kajabi, uh, to create
a social media course, um, when I was helping people with social media marketing.
Um, and I actually, I did create that course, but it never made it onto Kajabi.
Uh, the, that's when the pandemic hit, I ended up just giving that away for free.
That course to help people as much in the first lockdown as I could.
And then I honed in on just helping as many businesses as I could in a virtual
assistant capacity.
And from that, one of my clients actually needed Kajabi, needed an online platform
where they could host their programs, their online products, because they were
no longer able to be in person.
As we know, in the first, during the first part of the lockdown, all the
businesses that had been operating in person needed some kind of online
capacity if they hadn't had it already.
So, um, yeah, so I, I helped her out, fell in love with Kajabi, um, helped
as many people spread the word.
Um, I'm based in New Zealand and five years ago, Kajabi wasn't a big
no-in platform here in New Zealand, um, it's a lot more now, but yeah, I would
say probably 70% of my clients now are still New Zealanders that I'm helping with Kajabi.
Awesome.
I don't know a lot about New Zealand.
How many, how many, what's the population of New Zealand?
Just under five million.
Under five million.
Okay.
It's quite the audience.
Um, and the, so the, and the tools newer there, of course, I mean, the tools
quite new everywhere.
Um, and so you're, you're in a growing market.
Do you help businesses outside of New Zealand as well?
Of course.
Yeah.
I've got clients in the US and the States.
I've got clients that are already doing similar thing to me in terms of being like
digital nomads that they're often moving around as well.
Um, yeah, all over.
Awesome.
Obviously this online space has no boundary restrictions anymore for us.
So.
It doesn't.
And that's where you talk about that overlap and that, that
meshing of, of kind of losing sight of the balance.
Um, but at the same time, you're helping people understand the value of getting
out of the office.
Uh, you mentioned your work past.
Um, what did the daily grind to look like?
Um, you know, of one or two of your different careers prior to making the
switch to out of office.
Yeah.
Um, yeah.
So I had quite two kind of different parts of careers.
I had, um, what someone perceived as the fun jobs, you know, or Kate works in such
a fun job in the travel industry and in the conference industry.
So in the travel industry, I was nine to five.
This, uh, working, organizing people's tours, um, kind of like group trips and
things, and then taking people on the group trips as well, like a tour guide.
Um, so that involved a lot of far more than nine to five, a lot more out of
office time, literally.
Um, but at me as the, you know, the tour guide, the person that gets asked all the
questions that fixes all the things that takes people to hospital that does all
that.
So it was a lot of, it was fun while, while I did it, but in the end, it, you
know, it caused a lot of burnout because it was constant.
I couldn't have really any other life outside of that, even though it was fun.
I couldn't, I had to miss birthdays.
I had to miss holidays, um, with friends and things because I had commitments.
Similar in the conference industry.
Um, they say conference industry, working in the conference industry looks like
centerpieces and cocktails when actually you're like, oh, I'm going to
reconnect power and doing things like that.
So, um, yeah.
So that was the fun industries that I worked in.
Obviously a lot of amazing skills in terms of working fast pace,
dealing with conflict, um, and on dealing with things on the run.
Then I moved into far more of what I wanted at the time, a nine to five job
that wasn't going to take my weekends and lifestyle away.
And that was more in the government sector.
So, um, working in the conference industry.
It was more in the government sector, so, um, working on projects as a project
coordinator, and that's actually how I took my first step into becoming a
digital nomad.
I would work six month contracts in an office, which was literally nine to
five commuting Monday to Friday.
Um, and then head away for winter.
That's how I started doing it, um, and had just saved my money and then began
looking at the online space then, is that what I could do while I was away traveling.
Good for you.
So you've, you've in one way or another managed to find balance
throughout the process, um, you know, and, uh, do a lot of very extremely
different types of, of work.
You know, this isn't like everyday stuff.
Like I was a teacher, I was a police, you know, police, lawyer, whatever.
How did you, uh, how did you get inspired to get on that track?
Um, my track of like entrepreneurship or.
I mean, I guess you could call it that just this, you know, you, again, you,
you don't fit into one of the typical career hats.
Um, you know, you've got a lot of very cool, interesting careers.
Um, yeah, I've worked a lot of jobs and that used to be a thing for me.
You know, that I had the CV with all these jobs and that's purely because, uh,
I lived in the UK in London for 10 years.
Uh, when I first went to London, um, it was very common to have a temp job.
There were a lot of temporary jobs around where you're just filling someone
that was on holiday.
It gave you a lot of flexibility and freedom, which I guess is something
I've always been craving my whole life.
So, um, so I would work the temp jobs, maybe three month temp job and then go away,
travel around Europe for three months.
Um, obviously my love of travel took over and that's when I got into the
travel industry while I lived in the UK.
So I used to take people on tours of all the festivals around Europe,
like, um, October fest and running of the balls and the tomato fight and things.
So, um, yeah.
And that was in my twenties.
You know, when I had all the energy and it's sleeping things.
Yeah.
Okay.
So you said you were always craving flexibility and freedom.
Is there something that drove you to want it that drove you to crave that?
I think just the love of travel.
Because, you know, if you, yeah, so I mean, I guess coming from New Zealand too,
though, um, it's good to understand.
Uh, the difference in how things work.
So in New Zealand, if you work a nine to five jobs for any kind of mainstream
company, corporate or government, you by law get four weeks holiday.
Yeah.
Um, so that's a lot more than some countries get.
Um, however, New Zealand is far away from everywhere.
So usually when we travel, we go for a long period.
So we would go on holiday for four weeks a year or longer, um, rather than just a
week or a long weekend overseas because we had to fly so far to get anywhere.
So yeah.
And then when I got to London, you can literally go to Spain for the weekend.
Like that's nice.
That's really achievable as opposed to us in New Zealand having to fly for hours.
So, um, yeah.
So I guess that's where that travel addiction kicked in.
And, and then throughout my time in London was just finding ways to be able to
travel as much as I could see the world.
That's awesome.
Okay.
Well, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just,
those of you who are listening, um, you know, who are in a culture where the
work-life balance isn't, isn't, hasn't been as common.
Thank goodness for Tim Ferriss and the four hour work week.
Um, and thank goodness for the examples like Kate who got out there and, and
live from that.
So book was probably one of the first books that I read when I started really
looking into this, like going full time in this journey.
Um, and like so many, it was probably like a moment of burnout that I was like,
like something needs to change.
This can't be life, like going to work in the dark,
in the winter, coming home in the dark.
What was that burnout for you?
Or was that?
Oh, I think it was just particular jobs
that I worked in at that time in government,
just feeling really like purposeless, I guess,
in my job as well.
So, you know, one particular job I was bought in,
literally to be the cover for a person
who probably wasn't that well
and didn't turn up to work that much.
So, I sat waiting to be called on to do some work
as the cover person.
I was paid very nicely for it.
But, you know, to me, that didn't fit well
with my morals, probably, and just whatever I'm, you know,
like, what are we here to do?
Like, why am I sitting at a desk wasting my life?
So, yeah, that's what sparked it.
I didn't have a lot of belief in at the start
as to that I could actually do anything like this,
that I could travel the world as much as I wanted to
and work online.
But I had a really great coach at the time
that believed far more than me and questioned me
and pushed me really to just make it happen.
That's awesome.
You still working with a coach?
Always, yeah.
The same coach or a different one?
Or more than one?
Most of the coaches, actually.
My current business coach I've been with
for four years.
So, just sort of at the start of the pandemic,
just before the pandemic, we started working together.
Yeah, and we'll be stuck together for life, I think.
Yeah, but I work with various, you know,
she's a business coach.
I do periods of working with life coaches.
I'm about to work again with a business financial coach.
Yeah.
Good for you.
Good believer in having that help and support.
Absolutely, great insight again
for everybody who's listening in.
You know, I find that the best and the brightest
tend to have an ever-expanding list of coaches
they're working with to help them optimize
and become better at what they do.
So, again, that travel insight's awesome.
Let's look at some of these business models.
I may not have looked at, you know, like,
okay, should I, there's businesses who aren't aware
of learning management software
and how it can impact their clients well.
I may not even realize how you can shift into that or why.
So, if you were to look at a standard business,
you know, a small to medium business,
whether it be a chiropractors office,
heck, a restaurant,
and a, what else?
Like a life insurance person.
Why in the world would they want to use something like Kajabi?
And what could they, what would it do for them
to build an online product or base
for what it is they're doing?
Yeah.
I mean, there's multiple ways,
multiple things that it can help with and ways
of using a learning management system like Kajabi.
But I think a big part of my learning journey
as an entrepreneur has been that having multiple streams
of income is important.
And I think, unfortunately, a lot of people learn that
during the pandemic as well.
So, but for a traditional businesses like that
or, you know, that are in-person, face-to-face,
customer-serving businesses,
it can be used really nicely as an employee onboarding tool.
So, training up employees,
ongoing health and safety training for your employees
or any kind of personal professional development
that they may need to keep up to date with in their roles.
And then of course, for the business owners,
it's an opportunity to have another range
of diverse range of income.
I was just speaking to someone yesterday, actually,
that I connected with on LinkedIn who owns a,
and he'll probably see this video so high,
who owns a speaking agency.
So he brings in speakers to then go and speak books,
speakers for conferences and MCs and things.
And he was asking me about Kajabi and the capacity.
And, you know, the ideas that were coming up in my head were,
you know, are there up-and-coming people
that would be great as speakers
but just need the training and confidence
or in certain aspects of being on stage
or running a conference or, you know,
so there's all the different aspects.
And I think it's all about listening
to what people are asking you for as well,
what your customers or even your employees
are constantly asking, what are the,
or what are the common lack of confidence that people have
or questions that people have for you and your business.
Yeah.
And then being able to figure that out from there.
Well said.
It has proven to be a great training platform.
On our side, we've used it for our cells
and our foundation training.
And it helps to have an interactive interface
where we can test for not only give the material
what's supposed to be trained
but also have quizzes or assessments on the back end
that test for comprehension.
Yeah.
People aren't just going to the motions,
but they're learning how to use the information.
That's right.
It's something we've seen massively come out of.
The other side of the pandemic, I think,
is the need for more interaction and accountability
within the courses or within online learning
rather than just what we know as the evergreen model
by the course go away and do it.
It's up to you.
That's definitely something that everyone indulged in,
I think, during the pandemic.
And people are quite screen tired.
They're zoomed out, they're buying things.
They're shiny, what I call shiny object syndrome.
They're buying things and putting it in the folder
to watch later and they never get to it.
So, yeah, seeing that hybrid model
and the quizzes really helps with that.
And one of the other things that's really helped with that,
too, has been the communities, I think, as well.
And that's something I think I didn't touch on
with the traditional businesses.
But sometimes a business stems out of something
you couldn't even have dreamed of.
And when you bring like-minded people together,
just for the sake of having like-minded people together,
you never know what's gonna come out of that.
So, yeah, as long as you're going into it
with the best intentions, then everything's possible.
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, you brought up the change in training
with the pandemic and what comes to mind for me
is that a lot of these companies weren't ready to shift online
at all, they're just kind of pushed into it
because of the pandemic.
And you don't know what you don't know
where you're in scenarios like that.
But one of the things that I've been working from home
since 2010 and one of the things that people,
you know, struggled with, with agreeing to adopt me
or other team members to work with them was like,
well, how do we track if they're actually working or not?
You know, how do we have the control
over that environment and see that?
And how do we, again, test for comprehension?
I think that's why it's so critical
to work with somebody like yourself, you know, to figure it,
okay, if I'm gonna facilitate an online engagement platform
or online learning platform
and make sure that people aren't going to get zoomed out,
like what things, what tricks and antidotes can I turn to
in order to make sure that we set this up the right way?
So what would you say are some of the dynamics
that people overlook when getting ready to launch
an online product?
Yeah, I think a big one and it's something I'm huge on
is the customer experience.
So always thinking about how the customer
is gonna consume the content
and where else are going to want to go and look for things?
So if you have a community and a course,
then you need to make sure that they're linked together
to talk to each other that people can jump through easily.
I think when people are setting things up themselves,
you can be so in the business,
so in the content yourself that you can't see the whitest
scope of what else needs to happen
or how people need to be communicated with.
So yeah, having all the, all the surround,
wrap around support around your online course
or community as well is really important.
So that people aren't just flapping about
as they're on their own and or just not even logging in
and consuming.
Okay. I think as naturally as course creators,
do are passionate about people that want to consume
your course content and you care about that.
So, you know, I don't, maybe it's the people I attract,
but I've never worked with anyone that's just wanted
to create an online course and then go away
and not touch it again, you know,
and not just make the money out of it.
Yeah, because that doesn't work.
You and I know that that doesn't work, you know,
it has to have the passion behind it and the energy
and the human touch behind it.
Yeah.
Something we're wearing a lot at the moment
with AI haven't come on the scene,
but yeah, it was the same.
I related to what you just said about having worked
from home since 2010 yourself.
I remember at the start of the pandemic,
I was a, I'm a member, I still am of the New Zealand
Virtual Assistant Association, or Network.
And I remember us just all celebrating on a big Zoom drink
during the first lockdown that people finally knew
who we were, what we did and they needed us.
We didn't have to explain what a virtual assistant was
anymore and that we're people.
Right.
I call, I like to pick on that and say,
most virtual assistants are, are virtually abused.
You know, they really are, they're taken for granted.
They're treated like a transaction,
but the world's starting to come along
and recognize that, oh, wait a second, if we, you know,
if we treat our online relationships with the same respect
that we treat our in-person relationships,
and hopefully always improving on both,
then the results also tend to improve and get better.
Yeah, absolutely.
You mentioned community.
How do you build community online?
Doesn't that mean that I've got a bunch of fake friends
who, I mean, oh, I don't, actually my friends,
they're just weird, not robots, but virtual chat geeks.
How does that work?
I mean, that could be some old thought process now too,
but now that we've had, you know,
nearly almost 20 years of Facebook.
So does that make you feel old?
Like that's old.
Doesn't it?
Yeah, we're just quite here growing in.
This stuff makes me feel old.
Yeah.
Yeah, so I think it depends too
on what kind of community you're building.
If you already have an audience that is kind of begging
to be in a private space altogether,
to share what they're sharing,
to engage with each other,
to find networking connections,
then that makes the community a lot easier
because people already wanna be there
and they're gonna engage.
We just had a classic example of that
with the Kachabi Hero Live community
that we've attended.
Amazing, right?
That was my first experience
of being a customer within a community
through the Kachabi app.
Yeah, and that was a great example of what's possible
and the team shared recently as well
of how they intentionally put some things in place
to make sure that happens.
So engaging with your community is really important.
Being in your community yourself,
not just setting up a community and letting them go for it,
but having some kind of strategy as to what the community
is for and how you would like people to communicate
in there, I guess, as well and use the community.
Yeah, because if you're building a brand new community
of people that don't know each other,
you're inviting them in and that can be a lot of hard work,
getting them to engage,
but having the challenges and the meetups
and the human touch in there
and yourself showing up in there,
is a big part of that, it has to happen.
For us, community.
I love that.
That's the neat thing about showing up authentically.
Yeah, relationships all take work.
You know, I know every meme in the world says that
relationships shouldn't be hard work,
but memes don't.
So I don't know.
I don't know about real life.
So you do, you've got to facilitate the connections,
but just because it's virtual,
it doesn't make it any less real.
I wouldn't have most of my team members
if it wasn't for our virtual opportunity.
Most of them are in Columbia or Peru.
In current countries where we wouldn't know each other,
most of my entrepreneurial friends too.
So being able to connect online with each other,
but of course balance your online
versus your offline worlds.
It can be tricky, but it can also be invigorating
once you've dialed in the right types of audiences.
So what are some hard aspects of community building
that you would say pay off?
That should be sustained so that we should consistently
be doing.
You mentioned being zoomed out.
I'm like, well, I hope I never get zoomed out,
because I love my zooms.
But I know that it's like a meeting
where you're just like meeting with people
you don't wanna meet with, that can be hard.
But I guess what are some of those things
that if you maintain with time, it gets better.
I mean, it makes it worth it.
Yeah, that's an interesting question.
I think again, you mentioned consistency.
That can be hard for some people.
Like that can be really hard for some people
keeping consistent, especially if you,
as the creator of the community,
also have a whole lot of other things going on
behind the scenes that the community doesn't,
isn't seeing or doesn't see.
Or if you don't have support with that as well,
then that's, you could get easily far removed
from your community, not putting in the time to engage
or be that constant content creator
giving the value in the community as well,
and allowing the community to give value and grow together.
Yeah, so I think consistency is a big one
for anyone in any online business.
Anyway, that's not everything.
I think having a vision is really important, obviously,
but being flexible on that,
and maybe agile is the word, on that vision,
because your community will grow your community with you.
So they don't know when they join either
what that community is gonna look like in one year's time.
But together you will grow together
and create whatever it ends up being.
I think community is similar to,
like an online community is quite similar
to the online course space that we were talking about
where having a hybrid model is important as well.
So still, maybe this is part of the consistency,
having regular monthly in-person catch ups online
or in-person as well.
So that people are seeing your face
as the creator of the community,
but seeing each other's faces,
being able to talk rather than just type and join together.
And whether that's part of the learning of the community,
so you have a learning piece every week or every month,
or whether it's just a social aspect
will depend on what kind of community is
and what everyone's wanting.
But yeah, I find with the people that I help,
the niche, the industry,
the title of the community is, obviously,
because they've found their people.
Yeah, so there's, yeah, all sorts of people doing
all sorts of things that they've found their people
in that corner and those communities are so engaged.
Yeah.
Absolutely, I think too,
realizing you don't have to start the community, right?
It doesn't have to be one that you're the chief boss in,
right?
Jobby's a great example of that.
They've got like 40,000 people
who are in their Facebook community,
and you got leaders like Kate in there
who are constantly helping.
What it reminds me of just to vision a little bit
of what I see when I see Kate, I see HubSpot,
and I see HubSpot certified expert program.
They were kind of one of the original companies
who created such a program.
And so if anybody were to go to HubSpot
and were to check out their certified pros,
again, you get the CRM where you're setting up
your customer attention management software
and all the marketing stuff that goes along with it,
you get all into these weeds and you realize,
holy crap, I can't do all of this.
I'm close to run my business, not set all this stuff up.
And then you're like, well, so who can I get
to help me with this?
Well, HubSpot was smart enough to build a platform
to certify people to start building out
what your HubSpot could work like.
And there's thousands and thousands of those.
DigitalMarketer.com does the same thing.
Good Jobby has been working with their providers
to do the same thing.
And as Kate and others and Good Jobby stay consistent
with providing value and building up the funds available
to continue to enhance that,
we'll have more and more clarity over who can help
in different capacities so you can turn to.
So I saw that you actually have a little profile
with Good Jobby as far as like projects
that you're accomplishing, that's pretty cool.
How long ago did Good Jobby start releasing
those types of pages?
The Good Jobby experts.
The experts, yeah, Good Jobby experts.
That has been live for about six months now, maybe less.
Wow.
You are on the cutting edge.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm in there.
I was one of the better testers for it.
And it was a great example
of something customers were begging for.
It was something that Good Jobby didn't have to address.
They didn't have to do it as a business model,
but the type of company they are, as we know, they care.
And the customers matter.
And so they went ahead and filled that gap.
So the experts that are part of the Good Jobby experts,
Pat Plummer, all verified business owners
have worked in Good Jobby, have multiple clients
or projects that they've worked on successfully in Good Jobby.
So they've been vetted by Good Jobby in advance.
And then customers can jump on there and add their projects
and all the experts can apply to help them
with their projects, yeah.
So yeah, so we just, and the payments go through Good Jobby.
That's one of the main reasons they did it
is some people were claiming to be Good Jobby experts
and unfortunately leaving people high and dry.
So they really wanted to address that in the industry.
Yeah, but like you say, a lot of the other main platforms
have done that as well.
I know MailChimp also has professionals
that people can select to work with.
How time.
That's good.
No, that's really awesome.
I'm glad that they're doing that.
And I've also got a little post here.
Let me see here.
I'm gonna present my screen.
Where you had, you shared something
and I actually didn't know it was your share at first.
I was just excited to see a hot con here.
And so that's pretty cool.
That you're again posting on their behalf.
This is the CEO of Good Jobby
and he's just earned the entrepreneur of the year award
for the Pacific Southwest region.
How cool is that?
Great, hey.
It's very cool.
He's a great guy.
You would have met him at the conference.
Yeah, really great guy.
An amazing example of a leader of a massive company
who could easily sit behind an office wall
and hide away, but doesn't.
It's the type of person that you many is.
And I think it shows the great leadership in the company
and everything that follows from that.
So yeah, so stoked to see him win that.
He would have loved being up on stage
giving that victory speech.
Yeah, for real.
Absolutely, I can imagine the humility
he expressed as he did so.
That's what I saw.
I was a great leader who put a scene first.
We were at the event.
So, okay, let's talk about online digital products.
You know, if somebody is looking to start
an online digital product,
what are some of the goals that they should have in mind
as they get ready to do that?
Let's break down some of the key goals
they should be considering mapping out.
Yeah, sure.
I think the most important one for me would be
what is the end outcome for yourself in the business?
So obviously what's part of the business strategy,
but also for the customers
that are gonna purchase that product,
and based on that product, that is a big one.
The second big one.
Those are two really good ones, right?
Yeah.
Because I know a lot of people hearing this
might be like, well, that seems obvious.
It might be, whatever is obvious to you is fantastic,
because it means you have clarity around your own goal.
And know that everybody who's building something online
has different motives.
Even though it may not seem like it,
everybody really does.
So you've got to communicate that clearly
with somebody who's building with you.
So you said the outcome for yourself,
which so many people forget to establish
when they are people-pleasers,
when they like to build for other people.
They forget about, oh yeah,
I should probably make money on this too,
and that can lead to failure.
And there's the other side.
There's those who build for themselves,
but they don't think about
what their audience is getting out of it.
So we should also have established
what's the outcome for the audience?
What else?
What are some other goals?
Your current audience versus the audience
that's going to want to buy this.
So what kind of marketing are you gonna have to do
to build that if it doesn't already exist?
The pricing is a big one.
And then I think a massive one
that I'll always talk to is obviously your,
what's your time worth?
And how much time is this gonna take to create and market?
And maintain, manage?
Is that worth your time,
or is that worth having an expert on board
to help with that?
So how much time to create and to manage
on an ongoing basis?
Those are definitely important factors to consider.
Yeah, and you spoke at the start of the podcast
about what you don't know, you don't know.
And that's fair, right?
There's a lot that we learn on this business journey.
But I think being surrounded by other business owners,
having platforms like this, Jackson,
where you're providing so much value
by this podcast and business, talking to others.
I mean, the Kajabi conference was a great example
of just talking to others about their own journey on business
and having as much insight as you can,
like with a business coach, everything else.
You're still gonna make the mistakes.
You have to as part of your journey.
Someone might not be as big and bumpy by having
worked with other people or spoken to other people.
But you don't know what you don't know.
And if you're surrounded by other people,
then you can find out a little bit more.
Yes, the community factor is so important there too.
Again, that's where the Kajabi community
or the first class businesses community,
going in there and allowing people to ask you questions.
It's probably one of the hardest things
as somebody who's not quite a leader yet,
or somebody who's in the beginning stages
being the leader is receiving questions
that make you be vulnerable.
But those are the greatest gifts you can have in life.
So if somebody's asking you questions
that are making you uncomfortable
because you don't know the answers,
you're probably in a really good spot.
Like that's probably a really good thing to be in.
So if Kate's asking you, like, okay, great,
how much time is this gonna take to create
or you're asking her that and then that gets revealed?
And the question comes up, how much time
is this going to, do you wanna dedicate to managing this?
Right, if you've never thought through that before,
I know that the common desire is to run, right?
The common thought is like, oh my gosh,
like don't ask me these questions.
I'm outside of my comfort zone, like breathe,
breathe and stick with it.
Keep going, especially when you find somebody
who can ask questions that do poke holes
in your processes and your strategies,
that's a good thing, that's a very healthy thing.
So what else do you do, Kate,
to make sure you are kind of poking holes
in people's processes and bulletproofing people's launches?
If you don't mind, do you mind telling some of the secrets?
Yeah, lots of questions, yep.
So usually when I start working with clientele,
we'll jump on a free call together,
like a 30 minute call, make sure that,
or just check where they're at, I guess.
And it's probably about all those questions,
like are you actually, some people will come to me
thinking they want to build a digital product,
but they haven't thought out any of that,
they haven't started to create any content,
they don't have a content plan,
they don't have an audience, yeah, these kind of things.
So those kind of questions will help them go away
and then start to create those processes
and get things in place.
When I do start working with clients,
I have a checklist, so I work with various clients,
some of them are technically minded,
others not at all.
So I have to be really aware of that as well,
the language I'm using and not to overwhelm.
I don't want to overwhelm people more than before
they came to me.
So I have lots of checklists,
they're all bespoke based on the client I'm working with,
asking them questions about how things are gonna get set up,
but also for the content and things as well.
Usually I've done the pre-work understanding
the audience or the customers as well,
in terms of how we're setting things up.
So yeah.
I love that, that's really cool.
So to juxtaposition guys, Jackson at first class business,
I do like to overwhelm people, Kate did not.
And that's really cool.
If you want somebody to be as overwhelming as me,
then Kate would be the one to work with.
I was this close to naming my company,
overwhelmingmarketing.com, very, very close.
But again, there's different approaches,
different styles to how things are done.
I mean, I think naturally the people
that are gonna get overwhelmed will anyway,
even despite me trying to stop them from getting overwhelmed.
Yeah, I guess I'm there to comfort them
and just let them know that handed over to me,
I can sort it all for you.
You can go away and be overwhelmed by something else.
That's cool.
Because it's actually just that, yeah,
it's just some people are overwhelmed more than others
at different levels.
So yeah.
I like that. Awesome.
Do you have a place where you recommend,
here we go, Jaime is the step ahead of me on this.
So create an online course that your customers are begging for.
And this is on June 30th.
It's a free online workshop.
You wanna tell us a little bit about this workshop, Kate?
Yeah, sure.
So I hold free online workshops every couple of months,
but this one here is really just to help people understand
and this probably goes back to like some of those industries
that you were talking to earlier
that may not have even thought about
the fact that they could even have another stream of income
through an online course.
And so this is sort of helping them distinguish,
do they have a need for it or a customer desire for it or not?
So I guess it's a repellent attract
and a lot of the people that I work with as well,
they just don't know, there's so much,
there's so much that they could teach that they can't,
refine it down to one online course or a bite-sized piece.
So that's what this is about.
Being able to create an online course or digital product
that actually your customers are banging down the door for.
They're like, can you hurry up and make that
because we want to know?
Because if you're like a coach, for example,
a business coach and you're working one-to-one with people,
you're not working in a group capacity,
you're at, you can get a full capacity
and then you don't have,
you want to serve more people,
you want to give as much value as you can
and you can do that through an online course.
So the easiest way to create that online course
is based around those topics
that people are asking you for the most.
That's what's going to be the most natural that you can answer.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
So whether you're getting your feet wet for the first time
or you're an experienced course creator,
I do highly recommend checking out
what Kate's doing with this workshop.
The online course world is a way to diversify your income,
as she mentioned.
It's also a fantastic platform
to help if you have a retention-based business model.
For instance, if you have a gym, right,
and your gym is built on a monthly recurring revenue,
you're supposed to keep people interested month after month.
Well, there's all sorts of gyms out there
that are also adding on the online course component to it.
Most of them may be way ahead of you.
However, I will say that one of the biggest reasons
why courses fail is that it's content overwhelm.
Is it put too much in there?
They try to be too much to too many people
or they try to take off too much at once
rather than creating a gamified system where it's streamlined
and you're helping people get from point A to point B.
There's a lot of ways to do this.
It's very important to build momentum
and to do this one step at a time for most cases.
So Kate's a great person to work with on that.
Any final thoughts you'd like to share about your vision
or about what you, or where people should connect with you, Kate?
Yeah, sure.
I hang out on LinkedIn, Facebook,
and in the Kajabi community most days.
But I guess, yeah, the vision,
I've, as you've already heard,
come through this process of online entrepreneurship
through testing the waters,
seeing what I could help people with,
virtual assistants, social media,
into full-blown Kajabi.
I've been full-time doing this business
for two and a half years now.
I still held onto some part-time work at the start.
And my vision moving forward
is to be able to help more people.
Whether that's through an online course myself
is yet to be decided.
But actually, I'm helping people more on consulting side
of things as well now too.
So I still do the DUM for you services,
building your Kajabi sites, websites,
online courses and everything.
But I'm also helping consult
because I think some people just need that helping hand
or to launch their webinar or to launch their course as well.
And want to understand what all the logistics and tasks are.
So that's something that I'm moving into as well now.
And it will allow me to work with more people as well,
free up my time to help more people.
That's awesome.
Well, Kate, thanks so much for being here today.
Vision pros, we appreciate you.
Drop any questions you have in the comments.
If you have an opinion as well on courses
and what you should do to build online courses
or how online products are revolutionizing the world.
We'd love to hear from you.
And everybody have a fantastic evening.
We will see you on tomorrow's show.
Take care, everybody.
Thanks, Jackson.
Bye, guys.
Thank you for being here today.
I'm really happy that you tuned in to Vision Pros Live.
I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions as these episodes
continue to move forward.
We optimize them as the months go by.
This is going to get more and more fun.
We'll have more and more engagement as well.
We'll invite people to participate in the show.
And thank you for giving us your time and attention
and have an excellent time.