Hey, what's up? Vision pros welcome in to vision pros live. I'm your host Jackson
Calame CEO and founder of First Class Business. Super happy to be here today.
We've had an excellent week. In fact, this podcast, you know,
it's really taking off a super happy to have Pua yesterday.
I'm going to highlight her again from Rebel media because she was just so awesome
and was like, Jackson, this is the best podcast we've ever seen.
And I know there's plenty of great podcasts out there and lots of people who
are doing more than we are,
but we are certainly excited to continue to build and provide more value for you.
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And Aepiphanni as well. Aepiphanni from Rick Meakin's great friend of mine,
great with business processes. If your business is doing, you know,
more than 5 million per year,
I highly recommend checking out what Rick's up to with building process and
procedures. He does excellent proposals at very high levels, very in depth.
And he's just got decades and decades of wisdom for helping business to scale.
I'm at super high levels. Also, make sure to be giving back in the world.
We love to give back to the water project.
It's some opportunity to help people get access to clean drinking water.
Doesn't hurt to give a dollar that you have to the people who need it most in life.
So without further ado, I'm going to bring on Heather Hargrove.
Heather and I met at the Kajabi event.
Kajabi does learning management systems and courses.
And we actually randomly set at the same table together.
I got to meet her, I got to meet Evolve, I got to meet Maruxa.
And we all collaborated together to provide some feedback for Kajabi.
And she was just like on fire with the type of feedback that she gave.
She does systems and processes as well.
And she has quite an awesome funnel to opt into to get your eight emails.
It's eight emails that help you fully automate your business.
And so it's definitely worth checking out.
We're going to talk about why in just a minute.
So let's get Heather on stage and Heather, thank you so much for being here today.
I'm happy to reconnect with you.
Oh yeah, it is. I'm excited.
I've been looking forward to it once I pop them.
I was like, yes, we're going to talk some more in geek out, which is always fun.
It's like my favorite pastime.
I love it.
Oh, absolutely.
Like I always say, this is like video game time for me.
Like this, you know, being able to interact with my my friends or building stuff.
The cool thing is we just get paid to do it.
Yes.
Right.
So that's what's like being paid to build a board game, so to speak,
because you're creating the rules, you're creating the processes, you know,
of what your life is going to be like and what others' lives, you know,
are going to unfold like.
So it's a lot of fun.
What things make this fun for you?
I'm just curious.
Uh, I'm a back end geek, like a hundred percent.
It's so weird.
Like you have your front end, you have your front end warriors, right?
Like that's what I call them, like the front end warriors.
So like I can be on camera all day.
I can show up on social and I just have it for me with my PTSD from the military.
I was like, I like, I'm a back end person.
I like to just sit there on a Friday night and like, I'll have show that I
watched hundreds of times right now.
I'm watching friends again for like, I don't even know the number of
times, but I'll just have that going.
And I like to create.
And when I'm creating stuff in the back end, just like testing to see what I
can get the technology to do, how can I think of like other things that maybe
I'm not using it and just really looking at the touch point.
So for me, that's like, that's my fun time.
And I even geek out on it with my, with my kids.
It's so great.
I love it.
And that, that's the, some books call it like the rocket fuel calls of the
integrator visionary relationship, right?
There's a visionary who doesn't want to have anything to do with that sometimes.
Right.
But they still need an integrator in order to operate the business and make
sure that things are being built correctly.
And while you may not speak that language, it's so important to learn the
language, learn it enough to where you can delegate that responsibly as a visionary.
So that's a big reason why I was excited to have Heather come on, because I
know a lot of you want to hide from these processes.
You want to pull your hair out.
You want to say, man, I don't really want to get in all that.
The problem is if you don't, then you're not going to build an effective
bridge for people to find the value of your island of a business with all the
other businesses out there that do have lots of effective bridges in place already.
So you really need it.
So Heather, I want to make sure that we really highlight too, who, if, if there's
one person listening or a number of people listening, why should they listen?
What is it that you're going to bring a value on this, on this session that they
need to hear?
Yeah, a hundred percent.
So first of all, just so you know, and I think this is the most beneficial part is
to understand that I believe in a world where technology is a conduit to
liberation and not a barrier to progress.
Technology is a conduit to liberation.
So what I heard there is that the programs, the things we have to use on the
internet is a pipeline, so to speak.
It's, it's the mechanism that gets us to freedom.
Yes.
For those who I like my words, the ones I use are pretty small, my friend.
No, I get it.
But, and it's true.
And what I've noticed in my time in the online space is the amount of people,
especially if you're starting out, it's, it's envisioning what your business looks
like five, 10 years down the road, right?
It's really taking a look at what are, what's the life that you're living and how
do we create it in a way where you get to live your life.
While you grow your business and you're not burning yourself out and you get to
serve at scale, but you're not exhausted and you're not, you know, the people that
we see on a regular basis where we're like, ooh, what happened to that person?
And then we looked, we looked them up and they quit their, their coaching
business or they quit their business because they were like, I just couldn't do
it.
I was working all the time and I'm like, you don't have to work all the time.
Right.
They do and they're stuck on that and you nailed it.
And Jaime, can you pull up the website?
Because I love your first question and also really highlights the type of person
that, you know, you're, you're striving to find out there.
And so ultimately, if you're in a position where you're ready to automate,
you're ready to scale and you really want to fall in love with your business again,
I cannot, I cannot stress enough.
If you don't know what this means, be prepared to go to the process of losing
sight of the importance of your business towards your life and getting sucked
in to a cyclone where you do lose sight.
This again word, it's so powerful.
It's so important.
The, I know people who are ready get it.
So I, people have been through the three to five year struggle of a business.
They, they don't quite understand what this means and they may not appreciate
the value of the wisdom you're throwing down by asking this question.
But when you get caught up in the monotony and the day to day and feeling
like you have to do everything, it's so easy to lose sight of why you loved your
business, why you started to begin with them, what you wanted.
And so you're, you know, you're ultimately a key to helping people get back on track.
What does that look like?
It's really taking a hard look at what it is that you're doing on a constant basis
and really honing in on what are we doing to within our business that we're showing
up because we feel like we need to over deliver because we don't have those systems
and processes in place because when you don't have certain things put in place,
you're automatically showing up even more.
You're like, this isn't working right.
And I got to do more and I have to do more and I have to feel like I'm just
serving so much more when in fact they don't need you to serve more.
They just need you to think a little bit about their customer journey ahead of
time and just create a flow that takes them on that path without you having to be
present and they're still going to feel like you're there all the time.
And it's that over deliver mentality that really starts to make people exhausted
because they're overcompensating for what they feel like they're lacking.
And it's what I call that I'm official feeling when you start to create certain
things in your business, all of a sudden you show up and you're like, I'm official.
It's great. I can charge more.
I can do this and do that.
And until you start implementing things like an owner in a business, you don't have
that feeling and you just tend to want to do more work, which you don't need to be doing.
Shifting from operator mentality around the one that has to do everything to
that ownership mentality where you own it, but you don't necessarily have to be in
it or or with it.
It just happens to be yours.
Oh, I love that.
And so with your personality, it's interesting because you when at the conference,
at least you're out there, you're like, great talk, you know, you're ready to get
after it. And at the same time, you are not hasty.
And that's something that's very interesting to me.
You are a meditator.
You're a ponderer.
You know, you don't get to these deep realities without having a set of
patients built into you, you know, to really dive in depth into the depths of concepts.
So have you, which did you gravitate towards one or the other when you were younger?
Or, you know, have you always had that balance of depth with, well, let's go.
No, when I was younger, I didn't really think about, I just dove right in.
I think it was after being in the military, a lot of it happened with the transition
and seeing like the thought process behind the things that you're doing within,
you know, service, like I deployed twice.
I was in a war.
Like there were so many different things that happened. And from there, I really was
able to see how stepping back and thinking about the picture as a whole and taking my
time to really evaluate the possibilities so that way I can make an informed decision.
So I can try to predict a thing that may go wrong.
And it just really meshed well when I got into business.
And even when I was in the corporate world, like I was in the corporate world for over
two decades, and it was just something that like little by little, I was just able to
like sit back and be like, why are we doing it this way?
Does this even make sense?
How about we alleviate this and we combine this and then we can work better?
And then when I went out on my own, I was like, oh, like there's even more you can do
with that. And when you have the ability to create a business with the way that you want
to, with all the tools that are out there, instead of trying to take it up the corporate
ladder and being like, Hey, let's do that.
You can move in a direction that always feels good.
And if it doesn't feel good, I am the first person to say, try it.
If it's not working, get rid of it as soon as possible.
But the fact is, try it.
Give it a go.
And what feels good, go deeper and further.
What doesn't feel good, alleviate and call it a day.
That's profound.
There's a lot of profound topics we're going to dive into about what just happened.
First things first.
Thank you for your service.
Seriously, that means a lot.
I'm just a civilian.
You know, and when I say that, not to disrespect us civilians, but the sacrifices
that you go through, you know, the things that you do to make sure that we were safe
and provided for, it means a lot.
And that military background, it's an interesting one because it sounds like
it gave you the evaluation.
I can see how it would have a profound effect on comprehension analysis, right?
And giving you the gift of giving the gift of the opportunity to learn it.
Not that everybody learns it by going to that experience, but you really seem
to have honed that where again, you're going into a situation where you might
die, you know, where the decision matters a lot, you know, to the point of death.
And so you have to consider what should my notes be before you make them.
And you're training daily, monthly, weekly, however much it was, but you were
training your mind for that reality. And then you've been able to take that
skill set, you applied it to corporate.
What I find interesting about you, Heather, is that a lot of my military friends
that I've, or people that I've talked to who've been in the military, they
sometimes struggle to come back and transition to society.
You know, I get in a corporate job or become an entrepreneur.
Many different reasons involved, but one of the ones that I've seen as common
is they, one, they either fall into line, they need that, that structure
of somebody to guide them, or they are sick of it. Like they don't want anybody
to tell them what to do anymore. You know, and so you were there in corporate,
and it sounds like you were making waves, you know, like by saying, hey, why are we
doing it this way? You're willing to go against the system.
And you're able to also figure out that, you know what, I'm probably going to be
more effective at this on my own, but there's some like depths of leadership.
I hear you're not like mad about it. You're not like, you know, talking bad
about the corporate experience. There's just some type of like abundance about you.
Can you walk us through that? How did you get there?
Uh, just, at some times I feel like it was, oh, but no choice, right?
Like you live in a world and you get, I got out of the military experience
and I just started maneuvering through and I found what I enjoyed, right?
There's like little pieces of different things and I like to see the beauty and
like you, when you show up, you're like, what am I enjoying today?
What were some of those?
Oh, customer experience, huge customer experience, customer journey is always
one and I, I spent four years working at Enterprise Renekar was one of them and
they're huge on it. And with them, it was seeing the way that they empowered
management and even the employees to be able to help out with the customer
experience and the customer journey without having to go and being like,
Hey, this person had a bad experience. Can I do this?
That you can take it upon yourself and just make the decision to support the
cause and to create this experience for them. And then when I went into
education, while I was working at my master's degree, I was,
I went into and I was helping people enroll in education.
And from there, there's a space of time between when you sign up to when you
start. And this is like with most coaching programs, right? Like where people,
when people sign up to when they start, like depending on when it goes.
But it was interesting because once they sign up, until they start,
there's this time period. And it's like, how do we create this
experience? And it was just being able to touch those lives and keep them excited
about the prospect of what they chose to enroll in and how like those systems
would be put in place in the same things. And then from there, I went to like
logistics and it's like, I was in over the road logistics. So when you're driving
by and you see those trucks on the road and they're just shipping, right?
Everything from containers on the water to trucks over the road.
And you're literally selling to a customer over and over and over and over again.
Because once they're your customer, that doesn't mean that they're going to ship
their next shipment with you. So you have to provide value, customer service,
support communication. And it was just something about the feeling of providing
that value that always excited me. And what I like to have it roll over to
was then the value of how are we supporting people that work with us?
Like why is it only customer centric? How are we providing support,
direction, onboarding, like for the people that are working within the
organization too? And that's when I started to play with,
how is the organization set up? What are we doing that doesn't make sense?
How do we have these different locations talk to each other and communicate?
And from there, once I started on my own, seeing like all the underuse, like we
weren't using a lot of the technology that was available, like corporate America
doesn't, it's just they don't do it a majority of the time. And when I saw that
what like what the options were, I was like, man, the creativity and the
opportunities, like instead of making people work more, I never understood why
we didn't utilize technology to help our people work less within corporate America.
So that was really a big thing. I was like, because that was even in the military,
where things didn't make sense, we're like, we want you in the motor pool,
which I was a mechanic. Yes, I was. So when we're in the motor pool, we're like,
we want you in here, even if you're not doing anything just because. And to me,
I'm like, that does not make sense. Like, there's going to be times where we have to stay late,
we have to do things longer. Why not on the opportunities where we don't,
you tell us to go live our best lives, or leave for two hours and then come back or whatever it is.
So I just started to know that notice that there was these like little things and just the opportunity
to like help people each day. Like how can I serve? How can I help you, whether it's a customer or
somebody that I was working with? That's what really, because it was all about just helping.
And it was the same thing just kept going over. And as long as I was able to do that,
it was exciting for me each day. It was the days when I couldn't help,
when I felt like things were off and like everything went awry that I was like, man,
like what could we have done different? That would have made this whole much better.
Right. I love that. And so you have this appreciation for the good that's there.
And at the same time, the appreciation for the opportunity to optimize it.
You also seem to communicate that much better than I did 12 years ago when I was starting to
really open my mouth too much about things. So good for you. I've got goals. Learn to be like
that. So the high means like, please Jackson, like take some notes, man, be nice about your
feedback. So the, all right. So we covered a lot of the learning experience on that. And it
sounds again, like the, so the opportunity is let's utilize technology in order to improve lives,
not in order to get in the way of the lives. And that's what often happens with technology.
It gets implemented in a way where it's interrupting the consumer experience and the humanity
rather than contributing to pulling the humanity together. I would say stream yard is an example
of pulling humanity together in a great way. Right. So here we are able to produce this podcast,
able to get out there, able to connect with each other. And it's actually quite easy to set up,
you know. And so it's, it's one of those opportunities where it's like the technologies
empowered us to make friends throughout the world in a way that, that streamlines a process that
while it's not in person, it's as close to in person as, you know, I've ever experienced.
So you're, you're looking at these systems, tools, opportunities for business owners to say, okay,
where can we eliminate some of the friction that exists in these processes so that people have
a smooth process and moving forward? And I absolutely love that shifting gears corporate
to business ownership. That's a big jump for people. And I like to like, whoa, you have from
enterprise, you know, to, and renting cars out to people to the pathway that got you to where
you got to, but let's skip right to the doubts, fears or certainty that you had on with going
into entrepreneurship and making that jump as a visionary to, you know what, and did you know
you wanted to be an entrepreneur? Did you call yourself a business owner? Did you call yourself
freelancer? You know, I went through a whole series of titles before I finally accepted the
entrepreneurship one. Oh, my journey is so funny. And you're going to be like, Heather,
I thought you were more calculated than that. And you like, you actually took time to sit back.
What had happened was I never thought about being an entrepreneur. It was not in my family.
I thought I was going to grow in corporate America. I envisioned myself being CEO of some big
corporation. Like I was going to be in charge of something. It was fine. It would have happened.
However, I would, I happened to be in Nashville, and I was at the Gaylord in Nashville, and I
think it was 2018, 2019, something along that line, and funnel hacking live was there. And I was
there for a whole different conference. And so I'm hearing all these crazy people screaming. And
I'm like, what is going on? So I go and talk to them. And I talked to a couple people. So then
I made the mistake of going back to my room and Googling and Russell Brunson told me I could
take over the world. So I had never really been with a potato gun. Correct. I know it's funny,
like you get to know all the stories, but technology was not my jam. Like I joined Facebook
because my parents did when I had kids, because that was an easier way for me to update them with
what was going on. Absolutely. We weren't really using email, auto responders. And the only thing
I thought about websites was you needed to know how to code. And I'm like, not happening. That's
not my jam. So although I do tech, I don't code. Right. But for me, seeing the possibility of being
able to create your business online without having to have a huge team and pay a bunch of people to
like do all like, for me, it was like, that was the initial part. So I'm like to start that part.
And I was like, okay, let me figure it out. So I Googled it two months later, quit my job,
single parent of two, you know, two kids at the time, quit my job, drain my 401k. Had no idea what
people were going to want to pay me for in my own business. I just started going and I was learning.
And I was like, I just don't want to work 24 seven anymore. I don't want to be sitting at a tiny
at a table with my kids trying to eat, you know, dinner and have to take a work call. Like I don't
want to miss things anymore. I want my own life. I want to create something where I can be home.
And I can do things that I enjoy and not like all the others like right. So did that, then went to
funnel hacking live as a participant a year later, and then COVID just like destroyed the world.
We were like, everything paused. The weird thing was that was perfect timing. Because everybody
was then going online. And I just kept seeing what once again, what feels good, I did more of that.
And what didn't feel good, I did less of that. And then I just kept investing in myself and being like,
how do I create something? And little by little, I was like, Oh, like, I'm really good at this.
Like I taught myself in a span of not even a year, like everything from like, many chats at
beer, click funnels, lead pages, kajabi. And then like, there's so much more like group convert,
all the other different things like any platform that's a SaaS platform. I'm like,
if it's a SaaS, it's fine. I can work it. And then from there, it was just opting into people's
stuff, like seven and eight figure business owners, and really seeing the journey that they take
people on. And I'm like, Oh, like, I see the touch points. I see the things like I know why you do
this. And sometimes I even send them unsolicited advice. I'm like, Hey, this thing is broken.
Can you fix it? But and then I realized like, while hanging around with other coaches and
course creators that were not in that realm, I'm like, they're once again, the visionaries,
they're great at what they do. This piece, they don't even know about it. Like they're, they
don't see the same stuff that I see. So like for me, I was just able to put it together. And then
next thing you know, that's what I was doing. I was like, I love this. I could do this all day.
Like I getting on my tech calls with my clients or like getting in there and like connecting that,
oh, like energy just, it just lights me up. Yeah. And then next thing you know, my eight year old
is building a Wix website, writing out email, like I'm like, I'm teaching them all. And they're
like, mom, this is great. And I'm like, I know, but I had no, no clue until it happened.
Right. And school didn't know how to teach us these things.
People say these things aren't taught in school and they get all feisty about it. And it's like,
well, no, duh, like they, there's a lot of fundamentals of life, you know, that they're
trying to establish and for curriculums. And you know, they're, they're not making money
the way that we might think they are, I guess, I mean, all these, these teachers to, to figure
everything out. So if we're not, we're not educating our children about the opportunities
that exist that are on the forefront, right? We're the pioneers as parents to figure that out.
So it's so cool that you're incorporating that. I was just talking to somebody about how finally
I'm paying attention to chat GPT on a bigger level. And I'm so surprised I'm saying that on this
podcast because I'm like, I'm judging you a little bit right now. I love chat GPT.
Well, see, and I was, I don't like fans. And so last year I started playing with it. And I was like,
this is pretty awesome, you know, and I, but I don't want to get to show I'm productive.
That's why I'm profitable, right? I need the same productivity more. So I learned about enough to
to the right. And I started seeing news on about like crazy, like stupid fat. You know, I don't,
I don't listen to mainstream news very carefully. But it stayed around so long. And then Charlie
Chang at the Kajabi event, he was there and, and he pops up on my YouTube while I'm watching some
about podcasting. And he's talking about 15 tips on how to use chat GPT and kind of blew my mind.
This just happened to me two months ago. And so I sent, I sent it all to my, my team. And I said,
okay, guys, you guys need to really start paying attention to chat GPT, how it can help us with
translation. And this is not the other, but you, you know, like what you're doing with your kids,
again, just, just doubling down on that for the parents who are listening, you know, like,
I'm going to be talking to my kids about chat GPT, you know, and letting them like let in play with
it and see how this thing is going to incorporate like into their lives because it's like the
internet itself. And if they get ahead of that curve, like you have with SaaS companies, you
know, and your, your different systems, then you become an intrinsic value in terms of your skills
and services beyond just the fact that you're a human being like now you've got an unfair advantage
of the market. So thank you for bringing that up. Oh yeah. And it's funny because usually I always
call myself like I was never an early adapter. Like when it comes to things like iPhones, don't
I'm not setting a line for it and all the other things like when NFTs happen and all that like
I weighed as like I did not get into that and know what it is. I understand it. Yeah, couldn't
get into it. But for some reason, as soon as I started saying stuff with chat, GVT, I was like,
ooh, because I know what slows me down. And here's the thing with that. So for you, that would have
been a distraction for me was an accelerant. And yeah, but then there's also other platforms that
do it. So what I noticed, so when we were in Austin, I had two events. And so after I left
Kajabi, I went to the event that I'm going to mastermind with to their live event. And we had
the CMO of Jasper there, amazing conversation, going over AI and everything like that. And I
legit went up to him and I was like, and I'm once again, everyone has a different user experience
preference. So the way that you pick a platform is based off of how you like to work, how your
mind works, your user experience. They all do the same thing. They're just a little bit different.
And I went up to him, I was like, um, try Jasper years ago, didn't like it, hate the user experience.
And it was funny because I even after he was talking about what they were implementing with it,
I was like, let me give it another go and got in a free trial. And I was like, no,
like for me, chat GVT is the quickest way to just ask it a question, get feedback and get
information without having to go down like a seven day rabbit hole of trying to figure out how to
use it, like how to really make the most of it. Right. And yeah, like the beauty of it is like
what, but you can create with it. And then with the plugins, there's like 49 pages of plugins
on that sucker right now, which is crazy because about a month ago, there was only like 16 pages.
Well, that's what's cool about to what I like about your skill set and how you approach it is
you seem to be very system agnostic. And you know, you're looking for the best tools for,
you know, the sake of the people that you serve. And I have the same style of approach. It's like,
I love Kajabi. Don't get me wrong. I love it. I love it now with the culture of my, oh my gosh,
this is amazing. I want this company to win. And at the same time, it's business. It's not personal.
If they get behind the times, if they're not using what they need to, we're going to move to the
platforms that are necessary to again, further connect humanity with what we're doing. And that's
not a threat. That's a reality. We need to be moving towards what is optimized for everybody's
greater good and success. So, you know, I don't mind people who have that allegiance and loyalty
of like, Hey, I'm not looking anywhere else. But again, to see somebody who's passionate about
the experience itself, not just the platform. That's what that's what I hope again, everybody
listening gets to hear is, it's, you know, you're somebody who is going to be looking at the stock
market as a whole, so to speak, of assets that exist for businesses and constantly looking for,
is this going to help my client or not? And then suggest accordingly to, to the needs of those
you serve. So I didn't really need to be a question there, but I'm like, no, you're good. I'm like,
get it. That's fine. Go ahead. Love it. I'm loving what you're putting out there. So,
let's see here. So on Facebook, I thought this was also cool. You've got, you got the opt in here.
Please scroll down, Jaime, a little bit to that post. The next post down there, it's got 800
something comments on it for people who are saying, Hey, you know, we would love to have this. This
is that eight email sequence. It's all for the six figure coaching clients who are looking to fully
automate again, not to become robots, not to completely eliminate the need to talk to human
beings or work with human beings, but to fully automate the onboarding and upsell process. And
here's my take on that. If the process of onboarding goes that smoothly, and the episode process goes
that smoothly to where I deliver a first class experience, you know, to the prospect and to
the client on the front end, how much happier they're going to be when they actually do interact
with me and I show up ready to go, not stressed by systems, not stressed by the process, not
having to tell them all the basics. That's what I see happen is you're creating raving fans.
So what books would you recommend to help the audience or YouTube channels or courses,
whatever mechanism you've utilized, what would you recommend people study to understand how to
enhance the customer experience? Ooh, the fun stuff. So one of my favorite words. So I like,
and I always, I hope I never butcher the name, but near e-alls hooked hook. I'm looking it up now.
And especially for those that you have, and this is where I really got into the
into those touch points and that experience and how do we bring people back in. So when people are
signing up to work with us, right, and the way that he discusses it is more to with like apps and
stuff like that. To me, I translate it into programs and delivery. And I'm like, okay, somebody signs
up for your program, whether it's hands on done for you or even a course, how are we always bringing
them back in to get them hooked to always log in. Like how many times have you bought in something
barely got an email and completely forgot you opted into a thing. And you don't go back and
you don't use it. First world problems, but then correct. But yes. So right. But wasn't until Brennan
Burchard, you know, you were there for it. We're in the VIP. And he's like, and this is my funnel.
And I was like, I bought that. It was good. But I like, I barely looked at it, you know, and that's
a thing. Like if we remind people to come back through and be like, Hey, you have this thing.
And here's what I recommend to you on like day two, you're bringing them back into our event.
She there it's like a habit of, oh, I remember that I can log into that and get an answer to X,
Y and Z question, right? So hooked is really, really good. And I love it at the beginning where
they're like, we hope that uses, you know, this information for good and not evil, right? So you
were not getting people hooked to the wrong things. Like when you talk about algorithms, right? And
stuff along that line. But how do we capture their attention from the beginning to keep them
coming back and keep them engaged and keep them working with us? So that was my so that was a
really big touch point thing for me when it came, especially with like, a majority of my clients,
their high ticket coaches, but they supplement with a course. So how do we make sure your people
notice like in the military, one thing that we were always taught when you have a question,
did you look through other places before I went to my NCO and ask them like the question? That's
the first question. They're like, where else did you look for this information? So for me,
for some reason, I get excited about teaching people how to find that information. And then
from there, how to take that information and come to a call and ask a specific question based off
of that. So you can move faster. So that's, that's one that I just really, really love and have a
good time. I'm actually going to show it for a minute. And I'm actually going to buy it while
we're talking because I there's a couple reasons why it's not just the fact that the book was
referenced. I have a system for how I buy books, but we'll talk, we'll talk about why this book
is going right into my audible in just a second. But you also mentioned the fact that they break
down in the book about the not using the stuff to do evil, right? It's a resource, right? It's a
resource. You can use fire to burn things and destroy. You can use fire to create light.
You know, there's so many great things you can do with resources, so many bad things. It's up to
you, the user to decide how you're going to use it. And I think it's so important. And I don't
mean to, this is not a burn, but again, back to that optimization. And I love that you went up to
that, that I don't remember which one you were talking to, but you want to me say, oh, Jasper,
I mean, I like love this, love this, hate this, right? Bill Gates says that you're the people
who hate your product and your service, like you got to listen carefully, like they are giving you
a golden gift of how to improve. And if you can not take it personal, you know, not get offended
by it, but hear them out and understand, you can probably like, and I'm adding to his words, but
you can then start to optimize and create something that they could love and would love. So Brendan
did an excellent job at the conference of teaching us about his super simple five slides. Right? He's
a very good teacher. And I was really excited. I came home and I was like, all right, let's get this
deadline sequence in place. Let's get this process in place. And let's make sure to model what Brendan
is doing. And, you know, this again, it's going to sound like a roast, but it's just me exposing
the reality of his funnel. And it really irked me. And I was like, man, how do I sit with this?
Because I go and look at his process. And I'm going to share my email here. The Legends
help you build your personal brand 72 hour notice, right? It's all about helping people understand
the scarcity and it's get 50% off. And you get, you know, you can only get it as one time offer
for 197. And so I click the link and it's now weeks and weeks later, and I can still buy the damn
thing. That is a reputation destroyer. And I don't care what level you are. I'm like, and he
probably doesn't mean to maybe he's made a mistake with it, but we've got to be careful. I'm going
with Howard putting things out there because I really like him. We're still, I'm still excited
to go to his conference. I'm going to be there champion the way like he's a, I think he's a
great guy. I love him. And I hope that he optimizes this because that's that type of thing that people,
it's hard not to say like, wow, like that's an evil move. You made me buy this. You know, when,
let me share this tab. I didn't do that. There we go. So here's that offer, 197 dollars. And it's
like, man, if he optimized this, right, to where it had a legitimate sense of scarcity,
then now he's not throwing his reputation to the bus, but he's making sure that his user experience
is truly authentic. And so I'm just like dying to read this book because that's, that's those are
the principles I want to keep building on. But here's why. There's 8000 ratings on this book and
how to build habit forming products. If you can turn your product into a healthy habit, there we go,
we got it. We're good to go. So then you can allow people to start, you know, adopting a way of life
more than, you know, a product itself or more than just a system. They're actually making a
behavioral change. And so the concept of I was like, Oh, my goodness, this is gamification, but not
based on, again, less than games, but based on again, a little bit of a higher principle, my opinion
of the habit, maybe they're not maybe they go hand in hand. I like being playful too. But my mind
is now racing things to you. So I appreciate, I appreciate that a lot. 100%. You're going to love
it. I already have a feeling you're going to read through it. And you're like, Ooh, what do I want
to play with an employee every five minutes? You're seeing, like, that's me and reading. I'm
like, I take forever because I'm consuming it, but I almost like memorize the book and the process.
When I've been going back and rereading, because that was one thing I learned recently is like
taking the first like read the first three chapters, then I'll go back and read the same three
chapters again before I even move on. And then I'll reread it. So yeah, there's certain ones. So
once like I have friends that read tons of books, and I'm just like me, no slower. And I'm like,
what's the one specific thing that I want to learn right now? And how do I take action and
implement on it? And it's so much fun. I love it. Yeah, I take notes as they read or also audio clips
for my team also delicate books, right? And allow them to read it and then share back the recap with
me of what how it applies to us. And so there's a lot of ways we can consume the information. Now,
back to the ethical offers was just planning with Ashley of the tail publishing. And she's
absolutely amazing. She's one of my best students of all time to become an entrepreneur. And
we're talking about this ethics of scarcity as well. And she said, Oh, like, like Amazon has
a great system in place. And she started teaching me about how Amazon for their books, caps your
ability to provide discounts for certain periods in certain ways. And I was like, Oh, my gosh,
like that's the model. That's the model I've been I've been missing and wanting. And so
we're creating this thing called powerfully ethical scarcity. And we're going to take and why it's
not because Amazon's not evil, I don't I don't get in the whole good versus evil battles. But
it's because they're so regulated at that level, they've created a model that has been tested with
hundreds of millions about billions of dollars of user experience to know that this is a scarcity
play that people will appreciate and that they're used to, which again, if you can, if you can build
that model into what you do, now you're, you're building with the best of them, so to speak.
But if we can take that and one up it, even better, I mean, that's what I look like. All right,
can I take that concept and then improvise it, you know, optimize it to move to the next level?
Like, awesome. So you're going to be one of those secret weapon people that I turned to. And I'm
like, Hey, Heather, how do I, you know, what would you do to this? What would you do to improve it?
Is that fair? Oh, that's 100% fair. I'm so I love playing. I'm like, to me, I'm like, that's
what I put on my head. I'm like, I sit there and I just geek out. And but one thing, and this is
like with anything, and when it comes to scarcity and like what you said, it's like what feels good,
right? Like for you, what you saw when you were able to still get the same thing, although it was
past 72 hours, like how did that, that made you feel some kind of way? I don't want to say fun thing.
So for me, like, and this is where everybody has their own thing, like, and I've had conversations
with individuals where they've asked me, they're like, do you discount? I'm like, I don't, I don't
ever ever discount. But what I do is provide. So what I found that feels good for me is, because
especially there's people that like to pay in full. And if they pay in full, they're like,
what's the added value? Do I get a discount? And that's when I really had to sit with it and be
like, what does that feel like for me? But also, what does that feel like for them? Like, is my
services not good as much if they pay in full what they're delivering? So what I felt gave the most
sense. And this is where you get to play with it as a business owner is instead of discounting,
I give them more time in the container. Add value. Yes, I give them additional time and where we
can work on additional things, right? And instead of like to be like that. So it's just however it
plays out. But I feel you on the same way. So it's like for me, and like when I'm talking about
marketing last minute stuff, like, you really have to sit with what feels good. But I am excited to
geek out on the Amazon stuff, because I haven't been able to play with that. And I've been looking at
writing a book. So at some point, that's going to happen. And looking at the different things,
right? It's always like, what's the next logical step, right? So then it's looking at that when
you reach that point. But I would love to geek out on that and take a look at the flow 100%.
Cool. Awesome. Oh, we will. I'll absolutely be excited to have you. I hope that there's an
opportunity if you have a community to by all means, let us let us know about that. We do have
one called first class businesses. We just started putting the true value together for that. There's
about 60 members right now. So it's baby. I've started stop sort of stop shifted. And we just
weren't at the point where we knew enough about the principles of rules for community. Priya
Parker, thank you. Right. Awesome with that. And we just we just didn't have I didn't have the full
capacity to understand the type of value that was necessary to pull that together in a way where
people could interact in a way that was beneficial for everybody. And so we're striving to build that.
And, you know, if you if you want to join us in there, awesome. I know we'll be distributing
that episode in there. So it's also great for you to get to know people on there. And I interviewed
Pooley yesterday, we do the same thing for business, like our business models are almost
identical. And, you know, and she for a minute was like, Oh, are we getting away? I was like,
no, I was like, if people want to work with you, that's phenomenal. Like, if you make somebody a
billion dollars and they want to make room for us as a subcontractor, like fantastic. Right. If we
want to work with somebody we want to bring you in like fantastic. It's, I don't have a sense of
like competitors in the world. I love to compete. But it's got to be healthy, you know, like we'll
be friends in the process, you know, otherwise, like I don't want to be around you. So Heather,
thank you for so much for being here for blessings with your time. And, you know, we'll
of course stay in touch. Anybody who wants to reach out to Heather, Facebook is the best place
to reach out to her. She said, I'm sure you've seen her on LinkedIn as well. So your platform of
choice from a customer experience standpoint, I'm sure that also matters. And then of course,
you can opt in and get that eight email sequence. It can do wonders when you optimize your phone
in a way that nurtures people forward and allows them to, you know, really connect with your brand
before they get to meet you. So Heather, thank you for teaching us all that you did and Vision
Pros. Have a fantastic time building this week. We will see you on the next episode. Bye bye.