Let me talk you through the two most emotional, stressful months of my sales career.
It's no big deal to call a CTO until I want to talk.
You cannot stand on the sideline and basically wait until the dice rolls itself.
It's never gonna happen.
I don't know if this is gonna be on the record or off the record.
It's almost like playing with cards, this job.
Like, it's like you get given a hand of cards and like you have to do the best with what you have.
It's like, someone might be watching down on me.
Me and Jack going into this, when he originally told me exactly the same,
like, Jack, I've got this idea, what about this?
I just, my first thought was, my God, if no, I don't even care if anyone listens to this.
If I take one key takeaway from every recording, I'll be such a better rat.
This is no big deal. The sales podcast.
I suppose we'll kick it off here.
And I think, Moritz, me and you have stayed in contact for a couple of years,
ever since I successfully sold you in a previous company.
And me and Jack are massive sales nerds.
And so it's great to invite another sales nerd onto the No Big Deal podcast,
where we're gonna give you the floor to talk about a deal that you closed.
But if you could quickly just give me and Jack, you know, an introduction about yourself
and, you know, what the deal is you're gonna speak to us about today.
Certainly. And I mean, thank you very much for having me.
Jack and Jack, super excited.
So long story short, Moritz, located out of Zurich, Switzerland,
the land of the cows, the chocolate, the watches and the banks.
I've worked in sales all my life.
My dad was already a salesman, most of his life.
My granddad was a salesman.
So I guess there is a little bit something in the DNA there for the last 10 years.
So 2011 to 2021, more or less, I built up the sales team for an American company
here out of Switzerland in the end.
So initially as a sales associate.
And in the end, as the regional director of sales for Germany, Austria and Switzerland,
overseeing a team that was generating a nice million dollar amount of revenue yearly,
selling software, but also business services.
And now since February 2023, I'm a partner at the sales playbook.
Sales playbook is a small Swiss consultancy firm working with B2B, SAS startups,
but also scale-ups to help them overcome sales related challenges.
Fantastic.
Deal. We're going to talk today.
So we both agreed, right?
We're not going to say which company, but basically is, I would say,
a transformative deal of my sales career.
So it was around 2013, where I landed a very, very large contract with a German fashion company.
But I also almost screwed that deal up completely, which I think why it's going to be a really fun story
to share and also take out a lot of learnings for my fellow salesmen and sales women.
Fantastic. Thank you for joining us, Moritz.
We're really excited about this.
So we're going to start at the beginning.
Could you tell us about how the deal was opened or how the deal came about?
Yes. So I was working as a business development associate, and basically my target area or my vertical
was retail, e-commerce, fashion, basically anything you can buy online.
And in, I think, 2012, there was an event that was for free.
That was like the Swiss e-commerce conference.
And I was like, all right, it's one morning, it's four or five hours.
What can you lose? Worst case, you go to an event, right?
Free lunch, right?
That's literally the worst case scenario.
So I go there.
I am clearly the youngest in the whole crowd.
Presentation is very, very interesting.
Still learning a lot of things, even after two years, one year.
And then after the event, I mean, I'm doing a little bit of networking, talking with people.
Lunch was good.
But then after the event, I go back to the office.
And so I take what you call the English, the tram, the tube.
So I'm going on the tube, even though we don't really have a tube, never mind.
And there's a guy sitting on the other side of where I am that clearly was attending the same event.
Right?
Like just based on how he was dressed.
And I think he was still wearing his lanyard.
I don't exactly remember how we did this, but like, you know, I'm a little bit like you.
So like we start chatting, like, hey, you, you've also been to the event.
And then like, at some point, we start talking about motorcycles.
So he had a Harley-Davidson.
I had a Triumph.
And then at some point it's like, well, what, I mean, what do you do?
Right?
And so like he says, well, I work for, and I'm like, oh, funny, like I work for this other company
that provides language related services, like translations, et cetera, for also e-commerce
companies similar to you.
And so we exchange data at some point he goes like, do you also do Russian?
And I'm like, yeah, we do Russian for sure.
And like, so we exchange contact data.
And then that's basically about it.
But that's not yet the opening of the deal.
Right?
So then we stayed in touch.
I followed up over a very long period of time and basically said, like, hey, when can we speak?
Like, it sounds like this was relevant based on the conversation we have, blah, blah, blah.
And I think only around one year later, we finally got the first meeting.
So I had, it was ridiculous.
Like the amount of persistence I had to put into it because they were like, well, you know,
like we're not really ready.
There's still some internal things that we, we need to look at first.
And then like at some point they were like, all right, come to our office, bring your best squad.
Let's talk.
Channel 4 news team like out of Ankerman.
And so, yeah.
So, but you know, the kind of funny thing was like even years after people went still come to me and they said, well, you were just lucky
because you buy by luck, you went into the same subway, into the same tube like, like that guy.
And even by this day, I say it has nothing to do with luck.
Right?
Jaycee already said, I don't believe in luck.
I believe in the hustle.
So if I would have not gone and attended that event, I would have never met this guy.
Yeah.
Right.
I'm going to jump in here and Jack knows I'm desperate to talk about this.
Marie, I'm obsessed with this idea of luck because some people believe that, you know, you make your own luck.
Jaycee said it.
You just said it there.
If you hadn't gone to the event, if you didn't roll a dice, if you didn't take a shot, you don't score.
But then the other side of it is you could have gone to the event and no one could have been there.
You could have gone to the event and he could have told you that they were already buying another provider.
You could have not gone to the event and the deal might have still happened.
So sometimes things, the outcome happens even if you don't take any action.
And that is just good luck.
And sometimes the outcome doesn't happen at all, even though you did all the right things and that is bad luck.
And a myriad of other examples as well in the meantime.
But I'm so glad we picked that up there because, Joe, I'm starting to believe that there is no such thing as like you said there.
If you didn't buy a ticket, you wouldn't have made it to the game.
Right?
Correct.
Or Wayne Gretzky, right?
You missed 100 percent of the shots you never take.
And so in sales, I think you should forget it.
Like just the concept of luck does not exist.
Right?
Like imagine your CRO coming to you and going like, what's your pipeline?
Are you going to hit quota?
And you're like, well, maybe I get lucky.
What do you seek out to tell you?
Like, yeah, no, that no.
That one down Jack will be.
Even when you do roll the dice, right?
Which one could argue, well, there is a certain element of luck involved.
But you need to actually roll the dice in order to get to a number between one and six.
What you can do.
And unfortunately, that is something I witness quite often is you cannot stand on the sideline and basically wait until the dice rolls itself.
It's never going to happen.
I love it.
And this is the perfect example of sales.
You have to take these small actions and these small steps just to try and make something happen out of the ether.
You have to go to the event.
Even though the worst case scenario is you go to the event and so be it.
You don't meet anyone.
Free lunch.
Yeah, exactly.
I love it.
OK, cool.
Tell us more.
Can you just touch on what happened in that year?
Yeah, I was going to say more.
It's what happened in that year, but also outside of, OK, it's going to be a big logo.
What made you stay persistent?
I mean, OK, that's a good one.
So what made me stay persistent on one side from the conversation that I've had with him, but also based on my research,
it was pretty obvious that they did have a problem that we were able to help them solve.
That was that was number one.
And I think the second one was just from talking with the guy.
We were both more or less the same age.
Again, he had a Harley-Davidson.
I had a triumph.
I think we just connected.
Like I felt like this is like it's someone I would love working with.
Right.
Like and even today, like we're still we're still in touch from time to time, not that often, but like it's just like someone like you, Jack.
Remember, like just you connect, right?
And then you you want to work with people that you like ideally.
And then on the like, what did I do during that year?
I mean, I definitely didn't send, you know, the typical like, hey, we spoke two weeks two months ago,
you said that this is going to become relevant.
How's it currently looking?
I tried to engage with relevant content, relevant information or like, hey, so you just released your your quarterly numbers,
for example, congratulations, looks like you're really making a good like you're on the right direction.
So trying to be human, I guess.
But at the same time, also clearly going for the kill, if I can phrase it that way, like we both both at all points during these engagements,
he we both knew where this is most likely at some point going to go.
And I think I also gave him quite a few times the option to just tell me like, hey, if it's not relevant anymore, that's perfectly fine as well.
Just let me know.
And he was like, no, no, it's still relevant.
We're just not ready yet.
And I think this is critical as well, because I mean, this is something that we've all probably made that mistake in the past.
Is now the right time is now the right time?
Are we there yet?
Like that's just irritating.
And then the other part as well is just giving them the option to tell me the truth.
Is this the right time for us to have this conversation now?
Or is this something that you want me to reach back out in January or February?
I think that's the human part.
Tell me or whether or not to go away if I'm being a pain and people will respect that.
I find people respect that.
And this is obviously a classic example of someone respecting you enough to then take that follow up meeting with you for them to carry on.
And I guess that's where I'd love to go next.
Can you just tell us a little bit more about when momentum picked up and you knew, you know, there's blood in the water.
We got a deal to do here.
Let's go.
I guess momentum picked up when he reached basically then back out to me again.
I think about a year later.
So we met at the same event again a year later.
So that was also, I think that also helped like just seeing him again and also connecting there a little bit and being like, hey, like, how's he currently looking?
What are you working on?
How's the Harley?
Because it's still like all those kind of things, you know, on a human level.
And then, but then also like at some point again, he called back and he basically said, we're ready to talk.
And so then bring your best squad.
I've got a question.
How important do you think it was that you met this buyer face to face or in person rather than, you know, you reaching out to them specifically online, let's say prospecting in?
Good question.
I think industries, well, in almost all of those industries, these kind of events, when you go there, you already show that you have a certain natural interest in the topic.
As in like, I care about this community.
I care about this industry.
I don't only want to sell to you, right?
And I have seen, I actually have also just recently seen this when I was working in with a with a gaming and these sports start up.
So the biggest event is the gamescom in Germany.
If you want to sell to any of those companies, but you're not attending basically their yearly event, they are not even going to talk with you anymore.
So like, if you want to sell something to me and if you're in my industry, but you're not attending this event, you're clearly not taking this serious enough.
So I'm going to buy from someone else who is in this community as well.
So I think it was very, very important.
Yes.
If I would have just reached out, you know, like the good old, uh, call, call, LinkedIn message, email, whatever.
I don't think it would have had the same effect.
So this is a really big deal and you're probably really nervous going into the meeting, right?
You at 25 years old, as you said, not that experienced, albeit I feel like you're a very natural salesperson.
What did you do to prepare for that meeting?
And what was the outcome of that meeting?
So we did have a rough agenda and, but I wouldn't say, I don't think we prepared well enough.
So like, I definitely do prepare much better these days.
Back then, we didn't even play through the demo.
We didn't do that and we did not have, we had a deck, but it was basically our standard deck that we slightly adapted.
So like, I think at that point we still had a very, compared to what I would be doing today, it was a very scrappy approach.
So maybe not a great question and definitely not a great answer.
Great question, but bad answer.
Yeah, but that's like back to my previous point as well about a good outcome from a bad input.
So sometimes it can be quite, I mean, and so tell me, tell me how did it end up going well?
Because you said that.
In the end, they basically said like, look, this would really solve the challenge that we have, but every time when we need, when we have to make a decision that is like that, we basically would need to go to RFP, right?
Okay.
Normal, right?
So especially like larger German companies, if they want to buy a piece of software or services or whatever, like we have to invite at least three vendors to the RFP.
And then a magic thing happened and I still recommend doing this to a lot of people, which is like, hey, that's great.
We've collected RFP sample questions over the last X years.
If you don't mind, I will be happy to send them over.
Full transparency, some of those questions are pretty clearly written so that they are in our favor.
But you know, maybe there's a question or two in there that you think is going to be relevant for you.
And so basically, we didn't write the RFP, but we heavily influenced the questions that then would come into our mailbox a few months later.
And that is like, you have to do that at any time you can.
Exactly.
So stacking the chips in your favor really before anybody else even gets to have a look at the question here.
And I guess this is where it's not luck.
This is where it's good strategy.
Yes, on that front, I can just say like that might be the sales the way he trained me.
Like the sales strategy, like that's a lot like you can do a lot of hustling, right?
But if you don't have the necessary strategy that goes along with it, you only get this far.
And me and Jack have got a difference of opinions here because this is different.
When there's blood in the water and we've got a competitor that's about to enter into the deal, we think differently.
I think I'm like focused solely on what we're doing.
I try and ignore the outside, but I'll hand over to you here, Jack, because you've got a whole different approach when there's competition about to come into the equation.
Yeah, I like to actively bring competition into deals.
Like my idea is that I want to appear as knowledgeable about the industry and as consultative to their business.
And my angle on this is to deliver as much value to the customer.
So I'm like, if you're serious about looking at X type of software, you should also look at the two other biggest players in our market.
So similar to that RFP.
And then what I do, Moritz, is I try and shape the criteria.
Any buyer out there is this in sales loss favor, right?
Clear.
But do you do that being asked?
So like, for example, right, a lot of buyers will also at some point during the process will ask like, hey, actually, this really does solve a problem that we have.
But, you know, we have to go to RFP, so like, who will be two or three other companies that you could recommend that we should invite as well?
Or do you do that without being prompted to do so?
I do it without being prompted to do so.
OK, that's palsy.
It's mad at it.
You know me, Moritz, no two ways.
And I do it because firstly, I want to shape the criteria.
Secondly, I have this is actually a great thing that we talk about this.
I've been burned previously in my time as an account executive where I've run maybe educated a buyer about the industry that we've had spent a couple of calls talking them through, you know, the value of investing, let's say at the moment in sales engagement.
It's got to the end.
They've bought into what sales engagement is a category.
A competitor is coming at the end.
They don't have to do any of that education piece and they can do a very tailored demo based on the key criteria.
And then I've lost because they think the other provider does it better and has done it in a quicker time frame than my deal cycle.
I mean, I think based on based on what you're selling, I think it's almost kind of a given that sooner or later they're going to be looking at alternatives anyway.
Right.
And so that's.
Yeah.
You might as well just proactively put this information on the table rather than wait for them to ask you for it or to to to put it in front of you and ask you for comments.
Right.
And I think this is a really good question for you actually, Moritz.
Is there anything that you did wrong in this deal that you learned from that you then took that and run successfully in other deals?
OK, so let me talk you through the two most emotional, stressful months of my sales career.
So basically, so basically at some point we get the RFP and the first question is, does your solution integrate with X, right?
And so at this point, we were the only company in the world that had an integration with that system.
So I was like, yes, we got this.
Like, I know all the other vendors that are getting this RFP will not be able to confidently answer this question with a yes.
And we basically the first question, like, do you integrate with X?
We were just able to click yes.
Topic closed.
We want like basically at this point I was 99 percent.
We're going to win this RFP at no.
Like pricing doesn't matter because if you don't integrate with that solution, it's just not going to work.
Right. So imagine you're integrated with, let's say, SAP.
Your solution is the only one that integrates with SAP and you know everyone else doesn't.
Where does this go?
And as a junior sales rep, you probably thought, oh, deal done.
We're in.
I was like, deal done.
Like I I start.
I mean, before I even started reading the other questions, I think I went to my VP sales and I was like, hey, I think we got this.
But then.
Right.
So roller coaster of emotions.
So now I'm at the very high.
Then we submit the RFP reply.
Basically, like there is a little bit of negotiation with the procurement division, but like not that much surprisingly enough.
And at some point we have a kickoff call and the client brings on board their system integrator.
Right. So because yes, we have to integrate with another software.
And so we have the kickoff call and like, yeah, again, the first let's just imagine the first question in the RFP was, do you integrate with SAP?
We were like, yes.
So we have to kickoff call and then the system integrator.
So basically their partner company says, yeah, you don't need to integrate with SAP.
And we're like, what do you mean?
He goes and they go like, well, the data that you need to connect to doesn't actually live there.
It lives somewhere else.
A system we never even heard of before.
So now it's the end of July, I think 2014 or 2015, one of those years.
And they're basically like everything needs to be running by the end of September, beginning of October.
So two months.
And they're just telling you that the whole solution that you've pitched and that you've sold integrating with system X, you can basically take it, scrap it, throw it away.
And that within two months you need to come up with a completely new solution that integrates with a system that you've never even heard of before.
Did they bring the competition back into the deal or you already did?
You just now got you got to build the software now.
Fortunately, they didn't bring the competition back into the deal, which they could have at that point.
But like, I mean, the competition would have had the same problem, right?
So like, they didn't have an integration with that new system that no one ever heard of.
It was a proprietary system, basically a database that only this one, they actually built it themselves.
And like, yeah, basically within two months, we had to find a way how to how to do the data exchange, but then not only the data exchange, but then also every all the other processes that will be behind it.
It was a nightmare.
So like from roller coaster all the way at the top, like to the very bottom, to the point where I almost quit, like very fast.
I was going to say, is this when you hand your notice in?
I was just checking your LinkedIn.
You changed jobs.
I was I was very close.
I was very, very close because basically I also knew and I think this is important to add here.
So like, yes, this deal was transformative for my career because then afterwards I like I learned a lot and I didn't make the same mistakes again.
If this deal would have not happened, I would have more cyclic quit.
Definitely because like in sales, you need to have a certain amount of revenue so that sales is fun, right?
And like, if you don't have that revenue, then yeah, momentum, momentum, but also commission.
Living in Switzerland is not cheap.
Let's just say that commission.
What's that?
Yeah, what is that?
And then and then the other thing that happened was originally they asked us like, well, how much is this going to be?
And so we did some math and we basically arrived at I think 150 or 160,000 euros, which which was not like for that.
But the amount of work and for that business, it wasn't that much money.
But then when we actually did the project is it was more like 250,000 euros.
So basically it was over 100,000 euros more.
And so now, obviously, you suddenly get calls from procurement being like, hey, you said it would only be X.
Now it is much more like we need to renegotiate.
So like again, the the the the roller coaster ride was insane.
But like, yes, the learning experiences that went along with it, I guess, were were insane as well.
You don't learn from the winds as much as you learn from losses.
That's what really kills you.
You don't make that mistake twice.
So we never we never made that mistake ever again. So we're like, where does the data like where does the data that we need to connect with sit?
And then like, can you confirm that?
Can we talk with your system integrator?
Can we talk with your IT admin?
Like, can I have that in writing?
Like, like almost and then like, I would go to prospects and I would say like, listen, I understand that when I ask you all these things, it sounds slightly paranoid.
Let me tell you a story.
Right.
And that it never happened again.
I know we focus a lot and just generally the theme is going to be, you know, what things did we learn from this that we took on?
They wouldn't have bought from you, Moritz, if you didn't do things successfully.
So what did you do in this deal that you thought went really well?
I think the one thing I did that went really well is the human level, like the human connection.
Because remember, I mean, that's another quote I use quite often is people don't remember what you said,
but people remember how you made them feel.
And so a key moment, I think, was that after the first meeting, they actually had a sample sale.
And so they were like, hey, like, you know, like, I'm pretty confident you like good fashion.
Like, why don't you why don't you join us?
And I was on the hunt for a new letter jacket at the time.
And so we go upstairs.
There is the sample sale.
I find a nice letter jacket.
And then like, I'm looking at it and like the economic buyer basically stands next to me and just said,
yeah, it's really nice.
Like you should get it.
And then maybe that was I don't know if that was dumb or smart.
But basically, I looked at her and I said, I'll get it once you signed.
But with a smile on my face, right?
Like, I mean, not like that serious, but like, yeah, it's really nice.
I'll get it once you've signed.
And I think that was one of the one of the reasons.
The other thing we did, the other reason was we also connected them with existing clients.
So like, you know, like the usual, the like, hey, I'm a sales guy.
I mean, I didn't use exactly this word, but like, hey, I can tell you a lot of things.
And like, you've seen the demo, but ultimately, like one of the asks I would also have or like one of the ideas I would have for you is to speak with one of our existing clients, ask them like how it is actually working with us, validated by yourself.
We also had a yearly event where we invited them in order to talk with existing clients and ask, like, OK, like, is this just a good buyer experience?
A buyer journey?
But then how is it actually working with these guys?
What else did we do very well?
I think.
I mean, remember, I shared this webinar with you around the Jolt Effect, the book right now, but like basically already back then, basically told them very precisely what the next steps will be, what those next steps will look like and how long they will take, including a detailed project plan, which I believe
inspires a lot of confidence.
It also shows that you've done this before.
It shows that you know what you are doing, which in hindsight, relieves the pressure from them a little bit, where they're like, OK, these guys are so good at what they are doing.
They clearly know what the next steps are, which allows me to basically take a breath.
Breather, I think it's called in English, right?
Yeah.
That's so important, Moritz.
Yeah.
I would say those are some of the key components.
I think and that's never, it's never made as significant as it probably is in sales.
I always bucket down company's decision criteria into three buckets.
Technical, you know, does it do what we need it to do?
Secondly, economic, does it fit with inside of our budgets commercially and last of all relationship?
And I don't think people bake enough of that relationship into the overall decision criteria of why a company buys.
Now, that could be a partnership level or just the generic fact that, you know, I actually would prefer to buy from you, Moritz, than my competitors, because I get on with you better.
Secondly, the ability to.
You are the one you are telling the buyer how to buy.
And I think buyers love to be taken through a really clear process where you're the one setting out the mutual success plan to say, this is how we this is how you buy the product.
These are the steps you need to go through.
Yeah, now it's called mutual success plan or mutual action plan or whatever.
Back then, it didn't have any of those fancy names.
It was just called like, hey, we already created a project plan so you can see what it's actually going to look like.
And the project plan starts with signature of the contract, right?
And can you give us a little bit of an insight into the run up to that part?
The run up to the end and not the end, but the end of the sales cycle per se, not only the technical elements of the deal and how it moved forward,
but also you how it impacted you and maybe the stress or the enjoyment that it brought to you.
So basically, once we submitted the, I mean, it's been quite a few years, right?
And we all get older, unfortunately.
But I do remember so we handed in the RFP reply.
That's always that was always a little bit stressful.
And then we basically knew that they were planning to make a decision by date X.
That date, that was basically by the end of July.
Reason for that was basically they wanted to have the solution in place for the Christmas for the end of the year where typically like in retail and in fashion,
that's when you make a lot of sales.
You had a good crit school event.
Yes, critical event.
The problem was it's end of July, nothing happens.
Then it's the beginning of August, nothing happens.
Then at some point it's like middle August and you start getting nervous because did they take a decision to go with someone else?
And they haven't told you yet.
Is there a competitor who's potentially trying to stall the deal, you know, like confusion, fear, uncertainty, doubt, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah?
Or are they just quite simply late?
But if they are late, that means that your solution is going to be late as well.
And if you don't get that critical event, that's potentially going to risk the whole thing.
Movie to next year or movie to movie to never, right?
And so I did start picking up the phone at some point, being relatively nervous.
Calling no longer my champion, but the economic buyer directly.
So the lady that wants, you know, I'm going to buy the letter jacket once you've signed.
And basically having to have a few conversations with her that...
I mean, in the end, I think we can both look back at it and smile about it, but they were definitely not that pleasant.
So because then I think at some point what happened also procurement was like, yeah, let them, you know, keep them hanging a little bit.
Let's see if that maybe has an effect on the price.
And then at some point we also had to pull like, hey, listen, it's not me that needs to have this running by October.
It's you.
So this is the price, make a decision or like one way or the other, but make a decision.
And by keep dragging this on, it's not necessary.
It's not going to make it better for you and it's also not going to make it better for us.
And that is all before we figured out that we don't even have that other database we need to connect to afterwards.
You know, it's such a difficult conversation to have, but it is the reality in those scenarios.
This is let's do this now because we've come this far.
Are you going to go ahead and do it or not?
And I feel as though it's a hard part, especially when you're 25.
That's a really hard conversation to have.
Again, I had a very good mentor, but the critical event.
I mean, Jack mentioned it, right? So like, Met Pick or whatever, like the critical event, I think was really important.
But also because not only did we know the critical event, but we also calculated back from that critical event,
which I also think a lot of salespeople don't do that for whatever reason, I don't know.
And so basically we knew that I knew I needed to have a signature by the end of July.
And not because, and I think sometimes salespeople do this, but then they use like,
they don't actually need to have a signature by the end of July.
Like they just make it up.
They're like, you know, I need to have a signature by the end of July,
otherwise the solution is not going to be up and running in December.
But I was like, look, I need to have a signature by the end of July,
because then in August, the first week, this is what we're going to do.
The second week, this is what we're going to like.
I was able to map it out very precisely for them so they knew I was not bullshitting them.
I was actually serious.
I was seriously concerned.
That is like, I actually cared.
I wanted them to be successful.
I think that's another key component.
And that seems to come up a lot, Jack, was you agree with me?
The one you said two things that have very struck a chord with me is one,
is that the personal relationships you built and the fact that, you know,
you knew these people and you knew what they, that mattered to them.
That helps you win this deal.
But the second thing is how much you cared about the customer result,
their timelines and critical event they're working towards.
For me, those are the major things that help you win these deals
and help you win them on time.
It's like being there for the customer when they need you to be.
I mean, I had a couple of experiences in the same years that, I guess,
you will disfire.
So, I mean, funny enough, there was also a couple of companies that we had engaged with
that in the end didn't buy and they're all out of business.
And now, and so there was this going, there was this joke going on,
which is like, well, if they're not ready to buy our solution,
they're not ready for the future, so they're going to go out of business.
And like, so I liked the guy, I liked those people a lot.
I liked the brand.
And I don't want these guys to go out of business.
Yeah, sounds like, yeah, like in a, in a generally speaking, in sales,
right, like you're very money motivated and money driven,
but like in the end, you're also dealing with people.
And so like, you also need to understand that you're, you're, you're
providing a service and if you provide a bad service,
potentially these people will have to find a new job at some point in the future.
So you don't want to do that.
And it didn't matter in this deal, Moritz, that you were some, you know,
25 year old kid that probably wasn't the most experienced in the world.
You won because you cared most about the customer and you built really personal relationships.
And I think that's a massive takeaway.
And I had backup by an amazing team and I had a coach internally where I could
always go to him and basically say like, Hey, here's the situation.
Like, what would you recommend for me to do?
Right. No wins, deals on their own.
Nobody. No.
You can try, but you will fail.
But Moritz, I think we could talk to you for hours to be honest.
Yeah.
But I think it's a go on and on and on.
I'm going to wrap it up there.
I think this has been so insightful.
I can't thank you enough for being so far and forthcoming with all of the inside
lane that you're taking on this deal.
It's been brilliant.
An absolute pleasure.
I'm looking forward to listening to your other episodes.