1
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Drew.

2
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And uh oh, a man's voice.

3
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That's not supposed to happen.

4
00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,000
We're like, help! Someone call 911 (lol)

5
00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,000
Um.

6
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Should we just keep that?

7
00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,000
That's funny.

8
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,000
Me including the man's voice are oddly curious.

9
00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:23,000
Are you curious?

10
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Yes.

11
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Whoa.

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So, how are you, Drew?

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00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,000
I'm good. I don't know why you had to take such deep breaths to be like, so.

14
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How are you? Oh god.

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00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,000
Um, let's see.

16
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,000
What we were just talking about, Brooklyn 9ix9ine, and there's a quote from

17
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Brooklyn 9ix9ine that actually like sums up how life is.

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And it's Boyle and he says, life is a party and I'm the pinata.

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I mean, that's not really how we feel right now, but it's just like,

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that was a deep breath of that.

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00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,000
For some reason, this thing that came to my mind is when Captain Holt is like,

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I feel like I'm floating on a croissant.

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That's how we should feel.

24
00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,000
Yeah.

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00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:09,000
Forget the pinata.

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I want to float on a croissant.

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Yeah, live life like you're on a croissant.

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And eating a croissant.

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A croissant.

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And I was like to eat a croissant.

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A croissant.

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So I went to get a croissant.

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And I was like, well, that's awesome.

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Let's go to Paris.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:31,000
We're just like creating the longest list of people, places we want to go,

38
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of people, places and things to see.

39
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Yes, we should have like a, like a board of like, these are the places we're going

40
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and eventually it'll just be like every continent, every weird little town.

41
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We're going to all the places.

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All of them.

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And also we could like actually record there and have like an interesting story

44
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in each place.

45
00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:52,000
I'm like, hold tight.

46
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This is actually going to happen.

47
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Let's do it.

48
00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,000
Other than that, did not have a coaster there.

49
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I'm sorry.

50
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:00,000
Oh, it's okay.

51
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,000
This table is old.

52
00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:02,000
We got it for free.

53
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:03,000
Oh, perfect.

54
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:04,000
It's also wood.

55
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And I put a wet thing on it.

56
00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,000
Yeah.

57
00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,000
I have had this table since before I got married.

58
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Me and Ashley got it for free.

59
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A garage.

60
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Oh, it's fine.

61
00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,000
It's holding up really well actually.

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Yeah, it is.

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00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:20,000
I'm good.

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I'm drinking something called a, like a spring flower drink and it's really good and it's

65
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actually almost gone, but it has dragon fruit in it and dragon delight is good.

66
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I am drinking, I don't know why we always talk about our beverages, but I like it because

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that's important.

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00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,000
I think that's the only thing in life that's important right now.

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I'm drinking liquid IV for hydration and then for caffeination I have, it's called a butter

70
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cup latte and the guy at the coffee shop told us it's supposed to taste like salted egg

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yolk, which we are weird and we like savory, salty things like that.

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But yeah, I like it.

73
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,600
We were talking about how it sounds very Chinese.

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Yes.

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00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,600
And I will give it the ultimate Chinese compliment and say, it's not too sweet.

76
00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:11,600
It's not too sweet.

77
00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:12,600
I know that's actually how I like things.

78
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I really like it.

79
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10 out of 10 would recommend.

80
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Perfect.

81
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,600
And spring flowers in your drink also recommend.

82
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So happy.

83
00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:25,600
But before we start this, I just have one question for you.

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00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:27,600
Which golden girl are you?

85
00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,600
This is totally segue into something random.

86
00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,600
Okay, I like it.

87
00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,600
So I thought about this before.

88
00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:35,600
Yeah, me too.

89
00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,600
I mean, I think if you're living and breathing, you have to think about it.

90
00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,600
And I'm pretty sure I've taken a bus few times before.

91
00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:42,600
Same here.

92
00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:50,600
I would say depending on my mood, I'm probably a little bit dorthy and a little bit rose.

93
00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,600
Oh, that's interesting.

94
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,600
I would have given you a little blanche.

95
00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:55,600
Really?

96
00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,600
I mean, considering maybe I am blanche.

97
00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,600
Conversation earlier about what character you want to be.

98
00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:03,600
That's true.

99
00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,600
I think, you know what, I think Drew's right.

100
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I'm more dorthy and blanche.

101
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:08,600
Yes.

102
00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,600
I would just like to think I'm a rose, but I don't know that I'm that cute and nice.

103
00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:18,600
I mean, which I mean, like that is its own cute thing, but blanche and dorthy can be cute and nice.

104
00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,600
I wait first.

105
00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,600
I want to know which one you are.

106
00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:33,600
Um, well, I'm Dorothy because we're both tall and one time one of my roommates told me after I had been like out of town.

107
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She's like, I feel safe when you're home because I'm not scary.

108
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I'm not scary.

109
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Wait, was it Kate?

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No, it was Jessica.

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00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:49,600
But it was like the blanche literally said that to Dorothy one time and Jessica's a blanche.

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That's really funny.

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00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:51,600
Yeah.

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But I was like, so I could like, like cross my arms and look at them and be like, what are you doing?

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Get out of here.

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00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:57,600
I don't know.

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00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,600
That's funny because I feel like I relate a lot to you and Jessica.

118
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And so it makes sense that I blanche and Dorothy.

119
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Yeah.

120
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But I think I'm also partly Sophia.

121
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Oh, I can see that.

122
00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,600
You're like back in Sicily.

123
00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:11,600
Yeah.

124
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But I think that's only because our personality types are similar.

125
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I don't know.

126
00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:18,600
Yeah.

127
00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:24,600
I'm going to counter that and go back to what we were talking about before the podcast, which clue character do you relate to?

128
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:25,600
Oh, yeah.

129
00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,600
So I was telling Olivia, I've always been Colonel Mustard.

130
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What does that say about me?

131
00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,600
And why does that also track with the fact that I'm Dorothy?

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00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:46,600
I probably would love to be Miss Scarlett, but I felt like even as a little girl, I'm like, no, I will be the 75 year old Colonel with the mustache.

133
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And then meanwhile, I'm like a five year old.

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I'm like, I want to be Miss Scarlett because she's hot.

135
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:52,600
Yeah.

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00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,600
See, even big when I was five, I was like, well, I'm not hot.

137
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I'll be the one with the mustache, which I was like so mad if I was playing a board game and I wasn't like the hot character.

138
00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:04,600
Please don't judge me for this.

139
00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:05,600
Candy.

140
00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:06,600
Candyland.

141
00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:07,600
Candyland, were you the-

142
00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,600
I would cry if I didn't get the Queen Frostine card.

143
00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:11,600
Oh, yeah.

144
00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,600
And I got your Queen Frostine Funko Pop.

145
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When I was getting married, she got me a Queen Frostine Funko Pop and I still have it.

146
00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:21,600
That would be so happy.

147
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,600
I have like the weirdest combination of Funko Pops.

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I have Queen Frostine, Black Widow and Gerard Way.

149
00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,600
I actually feel like that kind of says so much about me.

150
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Like if you just kind of morphed them into one, suddenly they would be-

151
00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:37,600
It's me.

152
00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:43,600
You and you, it'd be suddenly they would have Natasha's red hair and then it would just be the rest of you.

153
00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:44,600
Yeah.

154
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:45,600
Sparkle emo princess.

155
00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:46,600
Yeah.

156
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,600
My Funko Pops, oh no, this is actually funny.

157
00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,600
I have Rey from Star Wars.

158
00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:53,600
Yes.

159
00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,600
That was a gift, which was so nice.

160
00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,600
And I have Steve Harrington from-

161
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:00,600
Yes.

162
00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:01,600
Okay.

163
00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,600
From Stranger Things.

164
00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:11,600
And I have Bo Katan from the Mandalorian.

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It's perfect.

166
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It is.

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That's not all.

168
00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:19,600
I also have two characters from an anime and their names are Hange and Levi and I love that.

169
00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:20,600
Oh, I know about Hange.

170
00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:21,600
Yes.

171
00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:29,600
So I have been trying to find, and I still haven't been able to find one, a Funko Pop of Jinx from Arcane.

172
00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:30,600
Do they have one?

173
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:31,600
I think they do.

174
00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,600
I haven't seen any in stock.

175
00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,600
I think it's the game version of Jinx.

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00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:37,600
Okay.

177
00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,600
Yeah, you need to have one.

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00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,600
That would really round out the personalities of my Funko Pops.

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00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:50,600
There's one that I really want that I probably should not share on here because I feel like not everyone would like it, but I will tell you after.

180
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:51,600
Okay.

181
00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:52,600
Tell me later.

182
00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:53,600
Okay.

183
00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,600
Let's put a pin in that, make people wonder what it is.

184
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:56,600
Yeah.

185
00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:01,600
This is like, I think our longest intro ever, but I love it.

186
00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:02,600
I love it.

187
00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,600
And it's really just about Funko Pops and Clue.

188
00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,600
What character are you?

189
00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,600
Oh, what Brooklyn Nine-Nine character are you?

190
00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,600
What did you say about me the other day?

191
00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,600
I think you said I was a combination of Gina and Terry.

192
00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:17,600
Yes.

193
00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:18,600
Yes.

194
00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:19,600
Yes.

195
00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,600
Because you could be scary Terry.

196
00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:24,600
You're like, this is taking too long.

197
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:25,600
I need to get to the farmers market.

198
00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:27,600
And I'm like, time for Gina's opinion.

199
00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,600
And then it says it on the, yeah.

200
00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:30,600
Yeah.

201
00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:31,600
Time for Olivia's opinion.

202
00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:32,600
Or Olivia was right.

203
00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,600
And then it's just embroidered on your back.

204
00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:40,600
And you are Jake and Captain Hull.

205
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:41,600
Yes.

206
00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:46,600
Which why am I always the older man wearing a uniform?

207
00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:47,600
Not really.

208
00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,600
I mean, deep down inside, I'm like, I'm Captain Hull and Colonel Mustard.

209
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,600
But also you said those are your favorite.

210
00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:55,600
They are.

211
00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,600
And it's just funny because I'm like, that is who I am.

212
00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:04,600
And, but also I'm very, very girly, like girly, but with a, an older man twist.

213
00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:05,600
What?

214
00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,600
Does it make any sense?

215
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,600
We should probably be like, we're normal looking, I promise.

216
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:12,600
Yeah.

217
00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:17,600
I'm like, for anyone who doesn't know Drew, Daisy Ridley is her celebrity dog lookinger.

218
00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:18,600
That's really nice.

219
00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:20,600
Her and what's other chick's name?

220
00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:21,600
Jamie Alexander.

221
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:23,600
That's also really nice.

222
00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,600
Thank you because they're both very nice looking.

223
00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,600
Well, yeah, you're very nice.

224
00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,600
Let's see, who are yours?

225
00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,600
Also, the nice thing about this is if this is too long, Roman can be like quit talking.

226
00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,600
And we're like, Hey, if, if you don't know who we are, we're just going to keep describing

227
00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:41,600
what we look like.

228
00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:42,600
Yeah.

229
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:51,600
Olivia to me has always looked like, um, oh my gosh, I cannot think of her name.

230
00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,600
You probably are better at picking the name because all of a sudden my brain just like

231
00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,600
literally, once you said Jamie Alexander, my brain was like blank.

232
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,600
Who is that one girl that people always tell you you look like?

233
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:02,600
I get a couple.

234
00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:04,600
I get Brice Dahls Howard.

235
00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:05,600
Okay.

236
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:06,600
That was the other one.

237
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,600
That's the one I knew of, but there was another.

238
00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,600
I know you've told me that you think I look like Cheryl Blossom.

239
00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:13,600
A little bit.

240
00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:14,600
Madeline Pitch.

241
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:15,600
Pitch.

242
00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:16,600
Yeah.

243
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:17,600
Yeah.

244
00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:22,600
I feel like this is going to be like too much information.

245
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,600
I feel like I looked more like her when I hadn't even just ordered.

246
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,600
Oh, well, you still kind of look like you're now to me.

247
00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:29,600
Oh, thank you.

248
00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:33,600
Just, I think it's the way she acts because I watched the first season of Riverdale and

249
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,600
stopped after that, like everyone else in the world.

250
00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:41,600
And every time she would do something, her face would make a face that looked like yours.

251
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:42,600
That's so funny.

252
00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,600
Cause I feel like it's more people's facial expressions that people will be like, Oh,

253
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:47,600
you're trying to find me of this character.

254
00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,600
I'm like, I don't feel like I look like her at all.

255
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,600
And I see them make a facial expression.

256
00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:53,600
Yeah.

257
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:54,600
Oh, I see it.

258
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,600
But it helps when they're making a facial expression, but then they also have red hair

259
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,600
and my brain is like, that's Olivia.

260
00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,600
But there's literally somebody else and I cannot remember.

261
00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,600
That's going to bug me.

262
00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,600
I don't try to remember like who you have said in the past.

263
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,600
But you also have a Lana Del Rey vibe.

264
00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:16,600
That's so nice.

265
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:17,600
Yeah.

266
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,600
One of our friends does call me Lana.

267
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:20,600
Yes.

268
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:21,600
Nickname for me.

269
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:22,600
Yeah.

270
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,600
It's called having a Pinterest board of what your friends look like.

271
00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,600
Look, this is how me and Drew became friends.

272
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,600
We're like, this is the character that this person reminds me of.

273
00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,600
And yeah, we just have weird, creepy little conversations about that.

274
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:38,600
Oddly curious.

275
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:39,600
Oddly curious.

276
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:40,600
Can you even imagine?

277
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,600
We'll have to think of it because my brain literally is like, I, yeah.

278
00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:45,600
Sorry, I can't help you.

279
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:46,600
If you think of it later.

280
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:47,600
Oh, I will.

281
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:48,600
Okay.

282
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:49,600
Oh, I will.

283
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:50,600
But this is actually perfect.

284
00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,600
It ties into my story because of the two people I talk about.

285
00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,600
I actually talk about their celebrity lookalikes.

286
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,600
Not that that's pertinent to the story.

287
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,600
It's just, I felt like if anyone wanted the visual of who I'm describing.

288
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,600
I feel like that's very helpful.

289
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:04,600
Yeah.

290
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:06,600
Because sometimes you're like, oh, I can't picture what the person looks like.

291
00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:07,600
Yeah.

292
00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,100
And they could always Google these people, but sometimes people don't necessarily want

293
00:12:10,100 --> 00:12:11,600
to see sad things.

294
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,600
They just want to be told them.

295
00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:14,600
I don't know what anyway.

296
00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:15,600
I understand.

297
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:16,600
That's why we're doing this.

298
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:17,600
That's why we're doing this.

299
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:18,600
Yeah.

300
00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,100
But anyway, are you first this time?

301
00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:23,600
I think I'm first this time.

302
00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:24,600
Okay.

303
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,100
So time to jump into this.

304
00:12:27,100 --> 00:12:33,600
So I am doing the topic of medicine shows in the American West.

305
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:34,600
Oh, right.

306
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:39,600
And I will get into my, I almost said my inspiration.

307
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:44,600
My inspiration.

308
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:45,600
My source.

309
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,600
I just got funnier the more I thought about it.

310
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:50,600
I did.

311
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:51,600
Okay.

312
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,600
So there's like an old man with a little mustache and he's holding a mysterious bottle and he's

313
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,600
like, I am your muse.

314
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:05,600
So I, I did get the idea though from listening to the maintenance phase podcast and they did

315
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:10,600
an episode about the origin of snake oil or snake oil salesman.

316
00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,600
That's, that is going to be awesome.

317
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:18,600
I just downloaded or like subscribe to that podcast tonight and I'm going to check it

318
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:19,600
out.

319
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:28,600
And then my other sources, an article about traveling medicine shows on culture and communication

320
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:34,600
on dead media is the, is the, is the, is the, is the, is the, is the, is the, is the, is

321
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,600
the website, which is very cool.

322
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:38,600
That's a cool name.

323
00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:47,600
And then patent medicine on legends of America.com patent medicine in the 1800s on allocation.com

324
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:54,600
and then a article by the code switch podcast on NPR.org.

325
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,600
Oh, support your local station.

326
00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:58,600
I know.

327
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:02,600
I after reading that article, I want to check out that podcast.

328
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,600
I've never listened to that one.

329
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:05,600
Me either.

330
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:06,600
Okay.

331
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,600
So medicine shows.

332
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:16,600
So the origin was, um, they were popular during 1850 to 1930 in the U S, but before American

333
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:23,600
medicine shows, there was the European, I think it's pronounced Mount Bonk, which was popular,

334
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,600
popularized through middle ages and the Renaissance.

335
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,600
The main purpose of Mount Bonk's, I don't, I feel like I'm saying that wrong.

336
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,600
Is it B A N C B A N K.

337
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,600
Oh, not bank.

338
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:38,600
Not bank.

339
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:39,600
That sounds too.

340
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:40,600
It sounds too.

341
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:41,600
Not right.

342
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:42,600
Okay.

343
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:43,600
We're going to go with mountain.

344
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:44,600
Monc.

345
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:50,600
Was to sell miracle cures, but also to draw people in, they would use forms of Comedia

346
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,600
Del Arte, a popular form of street theater.

347
00:14:54,600 --> 00:15:01,600
And this was also around the time where, um, like theater and plays were outlawed by the

348
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:02,600
Catholic church.

349
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,600
So this was like the way of them getting their entertainment.

350
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,600
The Catholic church is like, we hate everything.

351
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:10,600
I'm sorry.

352
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:11,600
That's not me.

353
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:20,600
Well, I mean, we're like, look, look, history says, yeah, this is history saying it, not

354
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:21,600
me.

355
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:28,600
Um, they would perform musical and acrobatic feats to draw people in and they developed

356
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,600
a new form of entertainment called Cirque du Soleil.

357
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:33,600
Sorry.

358
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,600
Well, it does start with a C.

359
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,600
Oh, charlatan, which is where the term charlatan comes from.

360
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,320
And it means to chatter.

361
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:49,160
And when the Mount Bonk entered the U S, it had a lot of similarities to its European

362
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:55,280
counterpart and they would perform different acts like ventriloquism, hypnotism and trick

363
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:56,440
shootings.

364
00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:02,680
And later to appeal more to the American audience, they would add aspects of minstrel shows such

365
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,160
as banjo playing and blackface.

366
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,760
Yeah, lots of red flags.

367
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,760
Banjo playing good.

368
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,720
Banjo playing good, but paired with the blackface, not good.

369
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:13,720
Not good.

370
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:14,720
No.

371
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:20,320
And around the 1870s is when the medicine show started to shift more towards promoting

372
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,480
different remedies and miracle cures.

373
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:29,760
And this was during a time when Western medicine was not very advanced and was not doing much

374
00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:31,120
for people.

375
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:37,400
So they're looking for miracle cures or things that they could just buy themselves.

376
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:43,720
And then Eastern and native medicine was also being appropriated and repackaged to appeal

377
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:48,760
to Westerners because native and Eastern medicine actually is helpful.

378
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:50,720
It actually works.

379
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,840
But they're like, you know what, we're not going to actually do that.

380
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:54,800
We're just going to use that to sell it.

381
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,480
Use it to sell it and also probably not give anyone profits that have originally found

382
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:00,480
this.

383
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:01,480
Oh, absolutely not.

384
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:02,480
Of course not.

385
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,480
How are you silly?

386
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,240
The primary purpose of the show, of course, was to sell medicine.

387
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:13,000
But the job of the performers was to pull people in and make them feel like they had to spend

388
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,680
money.

389
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,720
There are three stages to the art of the cell.

390
00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:23,280
The first one is to draw in the crowd with some promise saying things like, I've come

391
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:27,240
here today to make this a healthy and disease free community.

392
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,040
Stick around and let yourself be healed.

393
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,640
I think that's also what Jamba Juice uses to this day.

394
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,440
But at least Jamba Juice is delicious.

395
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:35,440
It's delicious.

396
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,720
I'm like, I know what I'm buying.

397
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:38,720
Yes.

398
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:43,400
The second stage is beginning the spiel, part story and part speech.

399
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:49,400
These spiels were very formulaic and there is an excerpt from Owen Strun's book, Medicine

400
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:50,520
Man.

401
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,840
The tale about the Quaker remedies was a little more complicated than the one about the mineral

402
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:56,120
water salts.

403
00:17:56,120 --> 00:18:01,560
In it, Jim spoke of a botanical garden, the site of which was a little indefinite.

404
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,840
Sometimes it was in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, and other times it was on the outskirts of

405
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:07,340
Cincinnati.

406
00:18:07,340 --> 00:18:15,080
However it was, it was supervised by old Dr. Josiah Baker, a Quaker botanist 140 years

407
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,120
of age, as Hale and Hardy as the average man of 40.

408
00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:21,080
As Hale and Hardy?

409
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:22,080
I'm quoting the book.

410
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:23,080
That's what it says.

411
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,960
He's a Quaker doctor who's Hale and Hardy and he's 140.

412
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:28,760
Like a bowl of oats.

413
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:29,760
Yep.

414
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,840
I mean, those are very hardy.

415
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:33,840
Yes.

416
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,560
In a marvelous garden, Dr. Baker raised all the herbs, barks, leaves, gums, and berries

417
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,160
from which the magical remedies were made.

418
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:47,560
The main remedy was Quaker botanical herbs put up in three small cartons contained in

419
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:48,560
a large box.

420
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:54,160
By adding the contents of one carton to eight ounces of alcohol, whiskey, or gin in a quart

421
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:58,520
jar, and then filling the jar with water, the fortunate patient would have a quart of

422
00:18:58,520 --> 00:18:59,520
medicine.

423
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:00,520
I want it right now.

424
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:01,520
I know.

425
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,480
I'm like, please put it over ice.

426
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:04,480
I'm into this.

427
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,600
If it was just like gin with herbs, I'd be like, sign me up.

428
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,840
That literally is like a bottle of Hendrix gin and that is a Brazilian dollars.

429
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:17,000
I'm like, old Josiah Baker should have just invented Hendrix gin.

430
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,000
Yes.

431
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,720
But spoiler alert, I don't think he was real.

432
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:21,720
He does not sound real.

433
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:22,720
He does not.

434
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:23,720
He was 140.

435
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:24,720
Yeah.

436
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:25,720
No.

437
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:26,720
No.

438
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:27,720
He had all of his teeth?

439
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:28,720
No.

440
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:29,720
I don't believe it.

441
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:30,720
I mean, to be fair, they didn't say that.

442
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:31,720
That's true.

443
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:34,320
They were like, you know what, no one has all their teeth.

444
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:35,800
That's so true.

445
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,520
And the last part of the presentation was a bait and switch.

446
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,040
Throughout the duration of the show, the medicine man would promise to demonstrate whatever

447
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,520
he was selling and sometimes pass it around the crowd during the show.

448
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,680
People would get so excited that they would buy the product throughout the show.

449
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:57,000
And then when it came to the end of the show and it was time to do a demonstration, the

450
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:03,080
medicine man would flee the scene or end the show abruptly without a demonstration.

451
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:07,200
In the rare cases that there was an actual demo, it would be a pre-planned stunt with

452
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:08,320
a plant in the crowd.

453
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:09,320
Of course.

454
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:10,320
Yeah.

455
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,240
But also just like the visual of him being like, and I'm just going to run off stage.

456
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:15,240
Goodbye.

457
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:16,240
Goodbye.

458
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:17,240
Oh my gosh.

459
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:18,240
Let's see.

460
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:23,240
What in the world could that be?

461
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,880
Look over there.

462
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:31,360
Wild West shows were also closely related to the medicine show and it's going to get

463
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:32,360
worse.

464
00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:39,080
Wild West shows capitalized on displaying the heroism of cowboys and exploiting and exoticizing

465
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:40,080
Native Americans.

466
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:41,080
No.

467
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:42,800
No, don't like that.

468
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:49,280
They also exploited the new America folklore by capitalizing on the mysticism of Native

469
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:50,760
American remedies.

470
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,760
The most famous example of this was the Kikapu Indian show.

471
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:55,760
No.

472
00:20:55,760 --> 00:21:00,760
They're like a collectively all Native people dislike an eye roll and a sigh.

473
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,440
They're like, please stop.

474
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,080
They're like, please, you are just a whole land.

475
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:07,080
Please just don't.

476
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:08,080
Please don't.

477
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,040
Unlike other shows where Americans would be parading around dressed in Native American

478
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:17,720
garb, the Kikapu Indian show had the idea to incorporate actual Native Americans, which

479
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,120
you can imagine were treated very well.

480
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:25,720
The medicine show was well known for selling a variety of remedies and patent medicines from

481
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:30,800
the Kikapu Medicine Company, which of course was, I mean, it was a real company but had

482
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,080
absolutely nothing to do with Native Americans.

483
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,320
It was a real company, but was Kikapu even a real tribe?

484
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:37,320
No.

485
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,880
They just liked the name because they thought it was funny.

486
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,560
Well that's the worst name to pick the name of a tribe.

487
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,280
They're a bunch of jerks.

488
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:51,040
These remedies included salves for skin diseases and Indian worm killer.

489
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:56,880
The worm killer was actually a capsule that was filled with very tightly wound string.

490
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:01,880
So then when you pooped it out, then it looked like the tablets were working and that a worm

491
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,800
had come out in your stool, but in actuality it was the string.

492
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:06,800
Yeah.

493
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,600
And no side effects from the string?

494
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:10,600
Probably.

495
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:11,600
Probably not.

496
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,320
They're just like, oh, it's working.

497
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:20,560
Of course, none of the remedies actually had a root in Native American tradition.

498
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:25,960
And I just put this in as a note, be wary of white folks repackaging other cultures'

499
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:27,840
medicine as miracle cures.

500
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:28,840
Yes.

501
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,120
That just into modern day.

502
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:33,120
That needs to be embroidered onto a pillow.

503
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:36,400
I would like that pillow.

504
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:37,400
Or a t-shirt.

505
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:38,400
Yeah.

506
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:39,840
What if that's our first marriage?

507
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:40,840
Be wary.

508
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:45,720
Be aware of white people and then bread disease because of these reasons.

509
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:46,720
And we're like, sorry.

510
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:47,720
We should know.

511
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:48,720
No.

512
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:49,720
We're white.

513
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:55,360
So this gets us into the interesting territory of patent medicines around this time.

514
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:59,200
So we've talked a little bit about the Kickapoo Medicine Company patent medicines, and now

515
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,680
we're going to get into some crazy ones.

516
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,800
I'm excited.

517
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:10,160
And despite the name patent medicine, these elixirs and tonics were rarely actually patented,

518
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:18,240
but they were proprietary blends that originated in England and were products under patents

519
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,880
of royal favor for the royal families.

520
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,040
So that's actually where the name patent comes from.

521
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,120
I feel like that would have got me back at the date.

522
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:28,920
I'd be like, well, the royal family likes it.

523
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,120
And then it's like, actually look at the royal family and they're not really threatening.

524
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:37,400
How many string words have they eaten?

525
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,840
Have you seen what the royals looked like?

526
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,320
There was just a coronation.

527
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,280
They're looking, yeah.

528
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:45,280
And that's modern day.

529
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:46,360
That's modern day.

530
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:48,960
I'm sorry, you got me distracted.

531
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,960
I was thinking about it.

532
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,840
I was thinking about how terrible they looked.

533
00:23:54,840 --> 00:24:00,200
One popular medicine was Mrs. Winslow's soothing syrup, which was supposed to help crying

534
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,520
colicky babies get to sleep.

535
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,840
And it did help them get to sleep because it was a mixture of morphine and alcohol.

536
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,520
I would say it helped them get to sleep, but then suddenly you have a six-year-old who

537
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,200
has a drinking problem.

538
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,200
Yes.

539
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:19,280
His fluid ounce contained 65 milligrams of the opioid and side effects were addiction,

540
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:20,280
coma, and death.

541
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:26,040
So yeah, you just have an addicted little toddler that's like, gimme morphine.

542
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:33,080
It's like when John Malaney was talking about how he was drinking was little.

543
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,880
Because his dad would come home and be like, what did you do today?

544
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,160
And he's like, I'm coloring a dinosaur.

545
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,720
He's like smoking a cigarette.

546
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,360
Oh, man.

547
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:50,040
But they were all like John Malaney drunk babies, probably funny, 100% terrible and sad.

548
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:51,040
Yeah.

549
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,920
Also sad when they would slip into a coma and slip into a coma.

550
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,920
And what is really sad is, okay, they're clearly not feeling good.

551
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:03,120
They have colic, but then suddenly their colic is better because they're like, wow, I'm feeling

552
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:04,120
great.

553
00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:05,120
Yeah.

554
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:06,680
But that's really sad.

555
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,880
It is really sad.

556
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:15,080
Another popular one was ergo apial, which sounds a lot like apparel.

557
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:21,080
It was for female problems, which I like that just catch all term or female problems, such

558
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,800
as irregular menstruation.

559
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,960
It was composed of ergot and apial.

560
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,200
And yes, that is ergot, the hallucinogenic fungus.

561
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:36,320
The alkaloids produced by the fungus would cause convulsions and tremors, making the

562
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,480
victims look manic.

563
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:45,080
And then the fungal infection also prevented lactation, caused unintended abortions and

564
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,200
uterine hemorrhage.

565
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,600
So it made your female problems worse.

566
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,360
It actually created female problems.

567
00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:52,360
Yeah.

568
00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:55,480
And then it's like, oh, well, I should take more of this because I'm having female problems.

569
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:56,480
Oh, no.

570
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:57,480
I'm like, jerks.

571
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,840
It's already hard enough being a woman.

572
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,160
And lastly, we have snake oil.

573
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,760
Many of you have probably heard the term snake oil salesman.

574
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,840
This is actually somewhat of a misnomer.

575
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:16,400
It automatically draws up an image in your mind of like a seedy salesman, a charlatan,

576
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,280
someone who isn't trustworthy.

577
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:23,080
But thousands of Chinese railway workers were working on the transcontinental railroad

578
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:24,400
in the US.

579
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:29,400
And one of the things that they brought with them to the US was snake oil, because it was

580
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:34,120
very common for workers to be bit by snakes while working on the railroads.

581
00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:39,160
These snake oils were made from the Chinese water snake, which were rich in omega-3 fatty

582
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:40,960
acids.

583
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:46,200
And the snake oil was also really helpful for arthritis or bursitis because it reduced

584
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,280
inflammation.

585
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:57,720
But of course, as America is want to do, this was seen by some as a money-making opportunity.

586
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,600
Here comes Clark Stanley, aka the Rattlesnake King.

587
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:02,600
Oh, gosh.

588
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,400
Did he give himself that name?

589
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:05,400
Yes.

590
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:06,400
Oh, okay.

591
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,360
We see what we're working with here.

592
00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:09,360
Yes.

593
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:15,560
And he claims that he learned about rattlesnake oil from Hopi Medicine men, and he never actually

594
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,600
publicly mentioned Chinese snake oil.

595
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:24,320
And here's an excerpt describing how he would make his snake oil, which it's kind of sad.

596
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,720
Stanley reached into a sack, plucked out a snake.

597
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:27,720
Oh, a real one?

598
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:28,720
No.

599
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,920
He slid it open and plunged it into boiling water.

600
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,720
When the fat rose to the top, he skimmed it off and used it on the spot to create Stanley

601
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,800
Snake Oil, a liniment that was immediately snapped up by the throng that had gathered

602
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,920
to watch the spectacle.

603
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:48,600
But the problem with Stanley Snake Oil was that it was not nearly as effective as the

604
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:53,520
Chinese snake oil because the Chinese water snake had three times the amount of the fatty

605
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,680
oil that the rattlesnake had.

606
00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:01,040
And oh, by the way, Stanley's product probably didn't contain any actual snake oil.

607
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,720
Oh, probably not.

608
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,920
Which it also makes me really sad because he's like killing these cute little rattlesnakes

609
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:07,920
for no reason.

610
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,160
For no reason, except my mom is listening and she's like, cute little rattlesnakes?

611
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:13,160
I don't think so.

612
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:14,160
Yes, Laura.

613
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:15,160
I said they're cute.

614
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,760
I don't want to come across one, but I'm so sad for them.

615
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:20,760
I agree.

616
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:28,040
I mean, I actually have come across one because of where I'm from, but I think they're cute

617
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,040
and they have a rattle.

618
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:30,040
Yeah.

619
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:31,040
And they're like, hey.

620
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:32,040
They come with their own percussion.

621
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,040
Percussion.

622
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,040
Percussion.

623
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:41,840
In 1906, the Pure Drug and Food Act was created to combat all these patent medicines.

624
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:47,520
After seizing a shipment of Stanley Snake Oil in 1917, federal investigators found that

625
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:53,600
it primarily contained mineral oil, a fatty oil believed to be beef fat, red pepper, and

626
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,200
turpentine.

627
00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:00,800
And the red pepper or capsicum was often used in these fake cures to give a warming, tingling

628
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,640
sensation to make it feel like it was working.

629
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,400
And then turpentine was often added for its strongly dissonal smell.

630
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:08,400
So, yeah.

631
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,400
Surprise.

632
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:10,880
It didn't actually work.

633
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:11,880
Yeah.

634
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:17,520
Now, to wrap up, I just want to point out that although we have come a long way since

635
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:24,240
then and some preventative measures like the FDA have come about, there's still a lot of

636
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,960
snake oil salesmen to be wary of.

637
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:27,960
And not the good kind.

638
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:29,600
Not the Chinese snake oil.

639
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,320
Not the OG kind.

640
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:32,320
Yeah.

641
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,960
So, we have our modern day snake oil salesmen.

642
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:41,200
I'm looking at you, Dr. Oz, and people who co-opt and repackage remedies from other cultures.

643
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:42,840
I'm looking at you, Gwyneth Paltrow.

644
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,240
Gwyneth Paltrow, if you're listening.

645
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:46,320
I'm like, that's right.

646
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:47,820
I said it.

647
00:29:47,820 --> 00:29:52,600
And also just a friendly reminder that supplements are not regulated by the FDA.

648
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,760
So don't just go out and randomly buy supplements.

649
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,480
Please consult your doctor first.

650
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:03,360
So maybe just think twice before buying into a trendy new cure.

651
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:08,400
And remember, as one of my favorite podcasts says, a cure all is a cure nothing.

652
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,320
Ooh, I like that.

653
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,680
And that is really wise.

654
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,640
I didn't say it, but I really like it.

655
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:19,200
Yeah, I really like your wisdom in re-saying it for somebody else.

656
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:20,560
Thank you.

657
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,080
And that is Medicine Shows.

658
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,800
Wow.

659
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:32,240
I kind of wish, because I mean, it's kind of like a weird pastime of the old West to

660
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,000
see that, like especially in like a show, like a movie.

661
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:41,040
If you went back in time, I can imagine watching it like, this is great entertainment, but

662
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,680
what's sad is the entire audience is like, this is going to help me.

663
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:45,680
Yeah.

664
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:52,480
And also they would have like different actual medical procedures that they could perform.

665
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,600
Like a lot of people couldn't afford to go to the dentist at the time.

666
00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:00,960
So they would just like have people pulling teeth and people just go and watch people

667
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,320
get their teeth removed.

668
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,240
I mean, if you had nothing else to do.

669
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:05,240
Yeah.

670
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,800
And I think that's the, which honestly, when I heard the podcast talk about that, the first

671
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,240
thing I thought of was Fontaine getting her teeth pulled out.

672
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:14,240
Yes.

673
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:15,240
I like your thought.

674
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,680
Mine went to Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman.

675
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,840
I mean, they're both good.

676
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:20,840
They're both good.

677
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:25,040
Because the very first episode, I don't know why I remember this, because I have not really

678
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,480
seen very much of that show, but we do love Jane Seymour.

679
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,480
Oh, Jane Seymour is great.

680
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:31,480
Yeah.

681
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:36,160
And she was trying because she was a female doctor, she was in the old West, no one trusted

682
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,760
her because she was a lady.

683
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,520
But the barber did the teeth pulling in town.

684
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:47,400
And so she had him pull a tooth that was healthy, but just so she could get people's trust.

685
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:48,400
Yeah.

686
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,560
Oh, she got her teeth pulled.

687
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,080
All right, we'll trust her.

688
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:57,560
What also isn't it crazy that like barbers used to also do like dental work and like

689
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:58,560
surgery.

690
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:04,320
They're just like, hey, you handle sharp things, how about you do all these other things too?

691
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,320
He's like, have you thought about bangs?

692
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,920
And have you thought about getting rid of this tooth?

693
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,080
Oh, wow, that was really good.

694
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:19,240
I have always found that part of history fascinating, but it's also very disturbing.

695
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,240
Like all of history, honestly.

696
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,040
Pretty much, yeah.

697
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,680
I also really like, I didn't know that charlatan was an Italian word.

698
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,160
I didn't even know that.

699
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:35,280
I really like the when people use charlatan like as a like a funny.

700
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,280
Yeah, he's a charlatan.

701
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,240
Like I think, was that a new girl?

702
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,040
Did Schmidt ever call someone a charlatan?

703
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:42,280
It sounds like a new Schmidt.

704
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:43,280
Yeah, yeah.

705
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,280
It's just funny.

706
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:47,280
And poor snakes.

707
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:48,280
I know.

708
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,080
They get such a bad rep because people are so scared of them, but they're just living

709
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,080
their life.

710
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:54,640
Yeah, at least like them alone.

711
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:59,000
At least with the Chinese railway workers, they were like actually using them.

712
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:05,480
And they have done it for thousands of years because they have good medicine.

713
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:10,360
It's like, which you and I have both been to Taiwan, not together, which is sad someday.

714
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:11,360
I know.

715
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:12,360
Adding it to the list.

716
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:13,360
To the pod.

717
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,080
But I remember going down this more famous night market.

718
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,600
I don't know if you did too, where they eat snakes.

719
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:21,600
Maybe.

720
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:22,600
I went to a couple.

721
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:23,600
Yeah.

722
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:28,240
I remember the restaurant was garnered with snake eating and you could pick the snake

723
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:29,760
you wanted to eat.

724
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,480
And it was really sad because they were alive and they were in their little cages.

725
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:34,480
I would probably cry.

726
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:35,480
Yeah.

727
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,520
And I mean, to them, this is just what they do.

728
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:44,200
But I was like, is that feeling when you go into the grocery store as a little girl and

729
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,680
you see the lobsters and you're like, but why?

730
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:48,680
Yeah.

731
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,480
Like I absolutely like if you're used to that and if that is your culture.

732
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:53,480
Yeah.

733
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:54,480
And that was so hard.

734
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:55,480
No.

735
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:56,480
It just personally makes me want to cry.

736
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:57,480
Yeah.

737
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,120
Like picking your own animal before you eat it, which I mean, I mean, that's how some

738
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:01,120
people eat.

739
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:02,120
Yeah.

740
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,240
Um, it's, to me, it's different when you hunt it.

741
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:05,240
Like that's one thing.

742
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:06,240
Yeah.

743
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,360
If it's already caught and you have to be like, goodbye, you're next.

744
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:11,360
That makes me sad.

745
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,800
I would look at its cute little face and be like, I want you to be my pet.

746
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:15,800
Yeah.

747
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:22,200
You're like, I would like my snake, um, raw and alive and to go back.

748
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:28,680
Which I mean, like so many people are probably like, well, if you eat meat, that's just what

749
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:29,680
life is.

750
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:31,400
I'm like, I know, I know that.

751
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,000
I'm like, yeah, but some of us are really good at pretending.

752
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,000
Really good.

753
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,000
And not thinking about it.

754
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:38,000
And not thinking about it.

755
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,200
And if you tell me, oh, look, that animal over there, that's where your meat comes from.

756
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:43,680
I will hate you forever.

757
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:44,680
Yeah.

758
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:46,680
So buckle up.

759
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:51,600
The hate drain.

760
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,840
The transcontinental hate drain.

761
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,760
It's just full of animals and we're like, don't even look at it.

762
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:03,360
But it's like a happy, um, train, not like the sad Dumbo one.

763
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:04,920
I was literally thinking of Dumbo.

764
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:05,920
Yeah.

765
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:06,920
That makes me cry.

766
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,120
KC Junior coming round the track.

767
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:11,120
Okay.

768
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:15,760
Well, um, thank you for your enlightening story.

769
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:22,840
I'm going to do something that's pretty different, more modern and trigger warning has to do with

770
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,080
possible murder or just death in general.

771
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:28,080
Yeah.

772
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:37,400
Um, so I am going to talk about the disappearance of lasanne frune and Chris Kremers and my

773
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,840
sources for this story.

774
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:48,960
Um, a rancor article by Laura Allen, um, medium.com article by Rivi Lyon, a podcast episode, I

775
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:53,920
forgot to write it down, a podcast episode of, um, murder with my husband, which is really

776
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:54,920
fun.

777
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,360
Um, I mean, it's a fun podcast.

778
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,840
Murdering with your husband is not fun, but that's what it's called.

779
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:02,840
And of course, Wikipedia.

780
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:03,840
Yay.

781
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:04,840
Okay.

782
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:12,760
So on April 1st, 2014, which 2014 does not sound that long ago.

783
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,680
It's almost 10 years ago.

784
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:15,680
What is life?

785
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:16,680
It's upsetting.

786
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:17,680
It's upsetting.

787
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:25,880
Um, so on April 1st, 2014, two students from the Netherlands, lasanne frune and Chris Kremers

788
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:31,320
went on a hike in Panama, uh, with a local dog.

789
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:36,880
They took off with the dog, the dog came back, the young women did not.

790
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:44,400
And a search eventually turned up a severed foot scattered her veins and nothing else.

791
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,680
And authorities had trouble even determining how they died.

792
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,040
So that's, we're starting off strong.

793
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:52,840
We're starting off sad.

794
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:54,800
We're starting off sad.

795
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:55,800
Okay.

796
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,840
So let's just get into who these ladies are.

797
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,720
So lasanne frune, she was tall.

798
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:04,920
She was actually six feet.

799
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:11,080
She was described as aspiring, optimistic, intelligent and a passionate volleyball player.

800
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,920
Probably helped that she was so tall.

801
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:20,080
And she graduated with a degree in applied psychology from Deventer, which is in the

802
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,080
Netherlands.

803
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:28,360
And then Chris Kremers, she was described as an open, creative and responsible girl.

804
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:35,120
She had just completed her studies in cultural, social education, specializing in art education

805
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,240
at the university of Utrecht.

806
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:41,560
And um, lasanne was 22 and Chris is 21.

807
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,320
So they're very young.

808
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:45,320
Lasanne was brunette.

809
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:49,400
And um, I wrote on here that she kind of looks like Kate Middleton.

810
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,200
And then Chris was ginger.

811
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,760
So it's like a brunette and a ginger going on vacation.

812
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:56,600
Hopefully our story ends differently than this one.

813
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:57,600
I would hope so.

814
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,200
And I think she actually looks a little bit like Bindi Irwin.

815
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:01,200
Yeah.

816
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:02,200
I showed you pictures.

817
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:03,200
Yeah, she kind of does.

818
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:04,200
Yeah.

819
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,040
And I just, for some reason I was like, this will help with your visualization.

820
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:12,200
So these girls are good friends.

821
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:19,680
Frune moved in with Kremers shortly after her, what's it called?

822
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:20,680
Graduation?

823
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:21,680
Wow.

824
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:23,440
Where did that word go?

825
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:28,760
Into a dorm room in Amersfoort and they worked together at a cafe restaurant called In Den

826
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,320
Klein and Hap.

827
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,800
I probably should have looked up what that means, but I'm sure it's something cute like

828
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:35,800
hometown buffet.

829
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:36,800
I don't know.

830
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:37,800
Home town buffet.

831
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:42,080
With the Dutch version.

832
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:48,600
So they worked there for six months to save money because they wanted to go to Panama together.

833
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,680
And this was a special six week vacation.

834
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,680
They were hoping to learn Spanish and they were hoping to do something significant there,

835
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,120
like helping locals or volunteering with children.

836
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:58,800
They're just really sweet.

837
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,800
They sound really sweet.

838
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:01,800
Yes.

839
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,080
Plus it was a present to Frune for graduating.

840
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,960
So it was just like all around, this was a good time.

841
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:09,960
Yeah.

842
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:10,960
All right.

843
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:15,680
So in March 2014, they travel from the Netherlands to Panama.

844
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:21,000
However, a miscommunication led them to arriving in this small mountain town where they were

845
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,200
going to stay called Bokeh, Bokeh Panama.

846
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:29,960
They arrived too early for their program and Chris Kremers noted in her diary that the

847
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,320
people there were rude and not at all friendly.

848
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,600
She also wrote, tomorrow they will try and get a hold of the head teacher.

849
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,400
This is a real disappointment.

850
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,120
End quote.

851
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:46,520
And this entry was dated April 1st, which is the date of their hike.

852
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:52,040
So she wrote this before they left and it's like, oh, that's sad.

853
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,160
So these two women wanted to seem as much of Bokeh as possible.

854
00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:00,800
They hired a guide to show them around on April 2nd, which is the day after this little

855
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,120
hike.

856
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:11,080
But they decided to explore on their own on the first around an active volcano named Baru.

857
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,160
And this is towards the continental divide.

858
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,920
Like if you wanted to look it up on the map.

859
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:22,080
Panama is kind of like an S shape or like a swirly shape, like a snake shape.

860
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,720
And it's kind of like northern Panama.

861
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:35,520
So this is a pretty heavily wooded rugged terrain trail, but it's not difficult.

862
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:40,440
And it's said that even if tourists had gone missing, like it has maybe in the past because

863
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:47,320
people just end up getting lost, they have always been found either with or without assistance.

864
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,520
They find their way home or they will run across the party looking for them.

865
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,560
So it's like, it's pretty common.

866
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,160
If someone goes missing, they're found.

867
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,360
Is it like a pretty active trail?

868
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:00,600
Yes, it's called Pianista Trail.

869
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:05,520
And it's like probably the most common trail in this little town.

870
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:06,520
It's very little.

871
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,480
It's like three miles.

872
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,960
So it's not huge.

873
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,000
They left with only one backpack between them.

874
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:19,760
And it was just, I mean, it was filled with only swimsuit, sunglasses and a camera because

875
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:25,320
they did not plan on staying out that long because it's a three mile trail.

876
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:26,920
And of course they take a dog with them.

877
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:31,560
So this is the host family's dog named Azul, which is cute.

878
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,680
Some of the articles said blue, but we're like, well, this is Panama.

879
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,760
The dog is Azul.

880
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,920
So other than the dog, they went on their hike alone.

881
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,760
They at one point did ask for directions from a local innkeeper.

882
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:53,160
And the innkeeper actually advised them to take a taxi back to town, which they did not.

883
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:59,240
People began to suspect something happened when Azul came back to town without them.

884
00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:00,560
Yeah.

885
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:06,600
Friends and family stopped receiving phone calls, texts, their Facebooks were not updating.

886
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:11,800
And this is just after they have gone on this P&E to trail.

887
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:16,200
So when neither of them turned up, the community decided to wait until the next day to contact

888
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:20,840
authorities, which I don't know if that was the best, but maybe it's because they didn't

889
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,360
have much to go off of.

890
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:24,360
Yeah.

891
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,720
So like anytime you're waiting, like there's really no reason to wait.

892
00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:29,720
Yeah.

893
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:30,720
Yeah.

894
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:32,200
I guess that's what we've learned with stories like this.

895
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:33,200
Don't wait.

896
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:34,200
Yeah.

897
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,320
If you think someone's missing, just go after them.

898
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:43,040
So April 2nd, the next day, the pair missed their, of course, hired tour guide tour.

899
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,760
So that also concerned the tour guide.

900
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,280
They were reported missing to the authorities.

901
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:54,800
And the only eyewitness account they had of them that day were when they spoke to the

902
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,640
innkeeper asking for directions and when they had breakfast that morning, which it turns

903
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,520
out they had breakfast with two unidentified men.

904
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:03,520
Red flag.

905
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:04,520
Red flag.

906
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,240
I think you said bread flag.

907
00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:07,240
Bread flag.

908
00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:08,240
Red flag.

909
00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:10,880
Which I'm like, well, bread flags at breakfast.

910
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:12,000
Bread flag would be happy.

911
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,000
Bread flag is not good.

912
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:14,000
It's not good.

913
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,000
Yeah.

914
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:20,840
So an extensive search was organized by the Panamanian authorities with help of locals,

915
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:26,600
native tribes, sent dogs, emergency aircraft, and signal flares.

916
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:30,600
The families of both frun and cremers also became concerned because they didn't get a

917
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,880
check-in call.

918
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:38,440
And on April 3rd is when they began the aerial search of the forest and on foot.

919
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:46,760
In the days following their disappearances, authorities conducted more search, more intense

920
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:47,760
searches.

921
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:54,920
By April 6th, the parents of the women grew frantic and flew to Panama with Dutch detectives.

922
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:59,080
And then they joined this massive search together.

923
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:05,400
So for a time, many suspected that they never even got lost, but were instead of victims

924
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:10,360
of a crime in town, which I'll talk about that a little bit more later, which a lot

925
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:14,120
of people felt like, OK, that's just stretching too far.

926
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:15,640
They're like, well, that's never been true.

927
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:16,640
Is it?

928
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:17,640
Like proven false.

929
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:18,640
Yeah.

930
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:19,640
Yeah.

931
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,960
The search efforts moved into the forest where the young women traversed using an on foot

932
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:29,520
search of several teams and dog units.

933
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:30,520
Investigation lasted for 10 days.

934
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,840
But by April 14th, this search was scaled down.

935
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,600
But they did continue on for 10 weeks, but it just like the manpower wasn't there anymore.

936
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:39,600
That's pretty impressive.

937
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:40,600
10 weeks though.

938
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:41,600
10 weeks.

939
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:42,600
Yeah.

940
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,600
There was a woman from a local tribe and I didn't, I tried to look up how to pronounce

941
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:47,600
it.

942
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,600
I'm going to give it my best shot.

943
00:44:49,600 --> 00:45:00,440
Nogabe, she found a blue backpack that she claimed was along the bank of a nearby river.

944
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:07,560
And this backpack had sunglasses, a camera, two cell phones, money, two bras, and fruence

945
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:09,800
passport and a water bottle.

946
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,760
So it's kind of like, well, her passport's there.

947
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,280
That's not a good sign.

948
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:20,840
After finding their phones, authorities now had a lead, they examined the phones and they

949
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,160
unraveled a pretty grim timeline.

950
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:25,680
So again, this has been 10 days.

951
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,600
Well over 10 days now.

952
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:33,560
The phones however remained active for 10 days after they went missing.

953
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:34,560
Oh.

954
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:35,560
What?

955
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,080
What does that mean?

956
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,880
Phone is that, that battery is strong.

957
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,160
Unless is it the battery or is it just like the signal?

958
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:43,160
The signal?

959
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:44,160
I don't know.

960
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:45,160
I guess I should have looked into that.

961
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,360
I don't know how that works.

962
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:53,400
But during this time, Kremers and Froon repeatedly called for help.

963
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:59,080
They called the emergency number for the Netherlands, which is 112, which is really sad, because

964
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:00,960
it's like they're probably panicking.

965
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:05,920
They also used 911, which is Panama's emergency number.

966
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:12,000
And they made numerous calls just a few hours into their hike, in fact.

967
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:18,760
Just show that they managed to connect only once due to poor reception and this call was

968
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,720
stable for only two seconds.

969
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:21,720
Which is just heartbreaking.

970
00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:22,720
That's unlike, yeah.

971
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:26,560
Like you're like, oh, we got it and it's over.

972
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:33,520
So after these attempted calls, the phones stayed on for some time.

973
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:39,920
Chris Kremers phone was locked and it showed that someone entered a wrong pin several times,

974
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,160
which we know this from an iPhone standpoint.

975
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:48,600
If you put in the wrong pin, suddenly your phone is locked for, who knows how long.

976
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,520
And then her phone was powered on one last time in April.

977
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:57,160
So I guess it was, they would turn it off to conserve power.

978
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:03,440
So her phone was last powered on on April 11th, which again, they went missing on the

979
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:04,960
first.

980
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,400
Both phones went dead afterwards.

981
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:14,280
In the timeline, authorities assumed at least one of the women were alive, but by at least

982
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,760
five days into the search.

983
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,840
Then they turned their attention to the camera that was in the backpack.

984
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:26,680
So the girls camera showed evidence of what may have happened.

985
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,160
More than a hundred pictures were on the camera.

986
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:34,280
The first few looked like normal tourist photos with the women smiling together.

987
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,440
But eventually the tone of the pictures change.

988
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:41,400
They actually get kind of creepy and you can look them up online.

989
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:45,320
There's nothing too disturbing, but it is just kind of unnerving to see that.

990
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:46,320
Like knowing what happened.

991
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:47,320
Yeah.

992
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,560
And the family doesn't really want you to see those either, which is like, we want to

993
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,200
respect their wishes.

994
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:58,320
So photos on the camera showed that the girls had hiked beyond the lookout point where most

995
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,040
tourists would normally go.

996
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:06,360
By 4.39pm, they made their first attempt to call emergency services, but reception was

997
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,600
too poor.

998
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:14,600
Both phones revealed attempted calls for help several times on the first and more made throughout

999
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:16,560
the following few days.

1000
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:24,040
By April 5th, it was apparent that Lizaan's battery was dead and there were 77 failed

1001
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,560
access attempts on Chris's iPhone.

1002
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,320
Which yeah.

1003
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:35,880
I wonder with their theory that maybe one of the girls was alive if maybe Lizaan was

1004
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:37,240
trying to get into Chris's phone?

1005
00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:38,600
That's what I think too.

1006
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:43,080
Which makes you think, okay, Chris might have been the one that was injured or I mean, has

1007
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:47,120
she already died at this point.

1008
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:51,840
So one showed cremers with what looked like concern on her face.

1009
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:56,200
So this is a picture dated around the time of the emergency calls.

1010
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:03,440
After this, the photos were taken from April 8th and likely snapped in between 1am and

1011
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:04,920
4am.

1012
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,120
So they had already been missing for quite some time.

1013
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:13,040
But what's really concerning is their camera was found perfectly put in a backpack.

1014
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,040
Did somebody else take these pictures?

1015
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:16,600
Oh, that's really creepy.

1016
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,480
Yeah, very creepy.

1017
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:25,840
And these pictures were of seemingly random objects like a stick with a plastic bag sticking

1018
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:30,640
into it as well as scenes of foliage, canyons, and a bridge.

1019
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,560
So I don't know.

1020
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:44,160
Experts propose several theories about how and why the women took these photos.

1021
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:49,720
The arbitrary pictures showed focus as if steady hands took the shots suggesting they

1022
00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:51,560
were intentional.

1023
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,520
Perhaps the photos served as trail markers to help the young women find their way around

1024
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,360
or back to the rescuers.

1025
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:04,080
Because they were dark, they might have used the camera flash as a light source to scare

1026
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:05,080
away animals as well.

1027
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:10,720
So they could have been purposeful or they could have been using the flash as a light

1028
00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:11,720
source.

1029
00:50:11,720 --> 00:50:17,040
But I think if the pictures were steady, I don't think that would have been the case.

1030
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:21,240
Yeah, I feel like if there was an animal you wouldn't care about what you've been taking

1031
00:50:21,240 --> 00:50:24,240
a picture, you'd probably just be waving it around.

1032
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:27,120
Yes, exactly.

1033
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:33,560
Many suggested that neither girls took these photos but believed that someone who abducted

1034
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:38,320
them did, which I actually agree with that.

1035
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:42,520
Froome's parents requested authorities refrain from releasing all the photos from the camera

1036
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:43,520
to the public.

1037
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:50,040
Allegedly, some pictures depicted them in a rough state, which is really sad.

1038
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:55,760
During a Panama-based TV program broadcast, the newscasters accidentally leaked some photos

1039
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,640
and this happened again on a Dutch TV program.

1040
00:50:58,640 --> 00:50:59,640
That's so annoying.

1041
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:00,640
So annoying.

1042
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:01,640
Yeah.

1043
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:07,400
The second show featured a photo focusing on the back of a person's head, which suspected

1044
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:11,600
to be Kremers, and the image showed injury to her head.

1045
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:15,000
So there's blood in her hair.

1046
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:19,280
This leads to speculation about how Kremers suffered an injury during the hike and that

1047
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:26,200
Froome perhaps used the camera for light or to document her friend's last known whereabouts

1048
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:30,320
before seeking help, which also explains why there were so many attempts made on Chris's

1049
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,360
phone because Froome's phone had already died.

1050
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:39,640
Yeah, or maybe if like, Lizanne was trying to find a way out of the trail, maybe she

1051
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:47,600
was trying to take pictures of things that would remind her where her friend was.

1052
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:52,280
After the discovery of the backpack, the search for the young woman began again, and this

1053
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:54,760
time in a different area.

1054
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:59,760
Authorities investigated along the Rio Culebra, aka the Serpent River.

1055
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:00,760
What is it with this episode?

1056
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:01,760
I know.

1057
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:02,760
It's snakes.

1058
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:03,760
Oh, that's funny.

1059
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:05,320
Your swiftest send us a message.

1060
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:06,560
Oh, I hope so.

1061
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,480
I hope it's also tickets to her show in Tacoma.

1062
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,440
We're like, please, please.

1063
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:18,440
So this, the Serpent River is near the village of Alto Romero, and this was quite far from

1064
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,560
the trail that they were originally on.

1065
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,320
But because of where the backpack showed up, they were like, okay, clearly they're not

1066
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:30,120
in the same area if this is accurate.

1067
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:34,800
So this time with this new search, they found something.

1068
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:39,640
Kremers clothing neatly folded and arranged on the river's edge.

1069
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:40,640
No.

1070
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:43,200
That literally just gives me chills.

1071
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,560
Like there's no way that your friend would do that.

1072
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:47,560
No.

1073
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:55,400
Also, is there anything more disturbing than a disturbed person neatly folding your clothes?

1074
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:56,400
No.

1075
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:57,400
No.

1076
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:59,680
There is nothing more disturbing than that.

1077
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:07,000
So the shorts that were folded appeared zipped and folded nicely, like I said.

1078
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:12,720
They were placed above the waterline about a half a mile upstream from where the local

1079
00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:15,080
tribal woman originally found the backpack.

1080
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:20,640
Curiously, the garments showed up on the opposite side of the river from where the women took

1081
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:22,240
the photos.

1082
00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:26,800
And they were not, I mean, it could have taken a while for them to be found.

1083
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:31,440
So clearly they're dry, but it's just creepy that to go through the river, you have to

1084
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:33,280
get your clothes wet and your clothes are dry.

1085
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,120
I don't know.

1086
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:39,320
And it has been a while, obviously, to close dry 24 hours.

1087
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:41,120
I'm just saying, it's just weird to me.

1088
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:42,120
It is weird.

1089
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:43,120
Yeah.

1090
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:49,360
So two months after discovering this clothing, further searches finally turn up some human

1091
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,040
remains.

1092
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:56,520
Searchers found a shoe behind a tree along the river where the side where the backpack

1093
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:57,840
appeared.

1094
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:03,840
It contained a sock, a fully intact human foot and ankle bones.

1095
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:08,000
And there was enough flesh on the foot for DNA testing.

1096
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,200
Can I just say I really hate the word flesh?

1097
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:12,400
Oh yeah.

1098
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:13,560
It's up there with moist.

1099
00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:14,560
Yeah.

1100
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:15,560
Yeah.

1101
00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:19,520
There's another word we were just talking about the other day that was like that.

1102
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:21,600
Flesh, moist.

1103
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:22,600
There's another one.

1104
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,960
We'll think of what it is.

1105
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,280
In addition, I'll think of your celebrity look alike.

1106
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:33,200
The two very important things.

1107
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:41,880
So by the end of August 2014, DNA tests were done and it linked the foot to lasan frune.

1108
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:47,440
Investigators later uncovered more bones and bits of skin numbering up to 33 skeletal

1109
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:48,440
fragments.

1110
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:49,440
Oh my God.

1111
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:53,040
They also found bits of criss-cramer skin throughout the jungle.

1112
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,480
No, don't like that.

1113
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:56,760
No.

1114
00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:03,600
While the young women were obviously dead, which is unfortunate, this does not explain

1115
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:05,560
how they died at all.

1116
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:07,240
The bodies were in pieces.

1117
00:55:07,240 --> 00:55:11,080
They were likely scattered by the river over time, perhaps.

1118
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:12,080
They don't know.

1119
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:14,640
But all of the evidence was lost.

1120
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:19,440
There were no marks on the bones to indicate damage and some of the bones appeared bleached

1121
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:21,960
because they had been in the sun so long.

1122
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:28,120
The only other suggestion of injury of the remnants of frune's foot, though a broken

1123
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:36,840
foot wouldn't have killed her, they found the women, though they found, oh my gosh,

1124
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:37,920
what am I saying?

1125
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:42,760
The only other suggestion of injury was these remnants of bones, even though a broken foot

1126
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:43,760
would not have killed her.

1127
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,080
That's what I'm trying to say.

1128
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:52,320
Although they, quote unquote, found these women, even though they're in pieces, authorities

1129
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,320
does not, does not, what am I saying?

1130
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:56,320
Authorities do not know.

1131
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:57,920
Other deaths occurred.

1132
00:55:57,920 --> 00:55:58,920
My brain just broke.

1133
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:00,720
It was a hard sentence.

1134
00:56:00,720 --> 00:56:04,600
I'm like, look, I don't like what's happening to these girls and it's making my brain

1135
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:05,600
broken.

1136
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:06,600
And it's upsetting us.

1137
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:07,600
Yeah.

1138
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:08,600
Let's see.

1139
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:14,720
Authorities faced the struggle of trying to determine why and how they died.

1140
00:56:14,720 --> 00:56:16,000
It actually would be quite a feat.

1141
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:21,800
That would make me sad, especially if you were the authorities in a country that was

1142
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:27,080
so far from where they're from and you had like basically Dutch authorities breathing

1143
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:30,000
down your neck and the families and it's like, could you even imagine?

1144
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:31,560
And there's like hardly any evidence.

1145
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:32,560
There's no evidence.

1146
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:33,560
Yeah.

1147
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:37,840
Like I do not envy this task.

1148
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:44,400
Because there could have been someone, foul play, they began looking for people of interest.

1149
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:48,880
They tried to figure out if the women had company besides the dog.

1150
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:53,600
The innkeeper they spoke to said they were alone and had asked for directions, but that

1151
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:55,760
was just them and the dog.

1152
00:56:55,760 --> 00:57:04,360
However, like I said before, the pair met with a pair of Dutch men for breakfast.

1153
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:08,640
But despite all this, and I even tried looking into it, there's really no information about

1154
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:09,640
these men.

1155
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:13,640
And what's really interesting is why, how are they both Dutch?

1156
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:14,640
Yeah.

1157
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:16,640
Like does that seem odd?

1158
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:20,080
Like did they somehow know them through school?

1159
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:21,080
Yeah.

1160
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:29,040
Like did they already know them or is maybe Panama just a really highly Dutch travel destination?

1161
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:30,520
Like they're like, we love Panama.

1162
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:31,520
Yeah, I don't know.

1163
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:32,520
I don't know.

1164
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:34,160
It's just interesting to me.

1165
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:39,040
Nearly a year later, so they went missing in April of 2014.

1166
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:46,840
By March 2015, almost a year after Kremers and Frun traveled to Panama, the investigators

1167
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,960
reached their last conclusion.

1168
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:54,280
The research into the case suggested that women, that these women most likely suffered

1169
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:58,760
some sort of accident along the trail, became lost in the forest.

1170
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:06,760
They suggested Frun had fallen a great distance and died from her injuries either near or

1171
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:11,720
in the river, which is why maybe her foot was near the river.

1172
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:17,160
And this theory was only supported by her foot, which is sad.

1173
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:22,040
Experts say that the breaks in the ankle and foot could only occur from a fall from a great

1174
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:23,680
height.

1175
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:29,240
The taken photos showed the date of when the women tried contacting emergency services,

1176
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:32,440
likely after Kremers suffered her injury.

1177
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:38,120
But in the dark, they couldn't find their way back, Frun died trying to exit the forest,

1178
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,160
leaving Kremers dead or dying.

1179
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:45,880
The remains then decomposed thanks to the river rain ended up scattered miles away.

1180
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,760
That actually does sound like a reasonable theory.

1181
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:50,960
It does.

1182
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:55,640
But some people, despite this, they're not so sure.

1183
00:58:55,640 --> 00:59:00,440
So many people claimed that the Panamanian authorities botched their handling of the

1184
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:04,600
case, a writer for the Panama Paper Law, Australia.

1185
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:05,600
Law, Australia.

1186
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:06,600
Oh my God.

1187
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:07,600
You can do it.

1188
00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:08,600
I can.

1189
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:18,480
Thank you, Roman, for all your hard work.

1190
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:26,080
Anyway, this writer of Panama Paper Law, Australia, her name is Adela Coriat.

1191
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,240
She said the whole thing was a mess.

1192
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:32,920
She reported that there was no chain of custody established for the recovered evidence or

1193
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:33,920
remains.

1194
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:39,320
She said that 30 prints found on the backpack not only remained unidentified, but none of

1195
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:44,120
the indigenous peoples involved in the case had had their prints recorded.

1196
00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:45,120
Yeah.

1197
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:50,080
She voiced further concern over the investigation of the electronics, saying the condition of

1198
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:55,520
the equipment found was inconsistent with the place where it turned up, the lack of

1199
00:59:55,520 --> 01:00:00,360
damage to the equipment was suspicious, and the police did not investigate this matter,

1200
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:04,400
also failed to scrutinize a photo deleted off the camera.

1201
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:10,120
Which it's like, whoa, why would you not look into that?

1202
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:12,600
Okay.

1203
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:19,200
So a lawyer for the Kremers family for the area, his name is Enrique Rocha.

1204
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:22,280
He voiced concern about the handling of evidence as well.

1205
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:27,160
He claimed there wasn't a forensic investigation conducted at the crime scene.

1206
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:30,440
The evidence and its sources remained unverified.

1207
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:37,720
And then furthermore, still lost are the women's skulls, which may reveal a more definitive

1208
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:40,400
cause of death.

1209
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:46,720
Because of this evidence mishandling, conspiracy theories run wild, and many suggestions of

1210
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:50,760
coverups by the police and the government have gained traction.

1211
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:55,040
Some believe indigenous people at the area may have killed the pair and eaten them, which

1212
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:56,040
is really disturbing.

1213
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:57,040
I hope that's not true.

1214
01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:58,680
That also sounds a little racist.

1215
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,280
A little racist, yep.

1216
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:03,080
They're like, are they indigenous?

1217
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:04,080
We're going to blame them.

1218
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:05,920
We're going to blame them.

1219
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:12,200
So they are hiding the crime by turning over evidence and seeming to cooperate, which I'm

1220
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:14,680
like, that's rude.

1221
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:20,480
Others suggest that the deaths were the work of cartels or organ traffickers.

1222
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:21,480
Which is also a little racist.

1223
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:22,480
Yeah.

1224
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:25,480
These are so racist.

1225
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:26,480
Yeah.

1226
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:30,480
Which, I mean, that could explain why the bodies were in pieces, but...

1227
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:31,480
I don't know.

1228
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:37,880
I feel like if it was the cartel or someone who's trying to hide their activity, why wouldn't

1229
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:40,280
they destroy more of the evidence?

1230
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:41,280
Or bury the evidence.

1231
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:43,240
Yeah, seriously.

1232
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:44,240
So there are plentiful...

1233
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:45,240
Plentiful?

1234
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:46,240
Wow.

1235
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:53,720
Plentiful theories about what happened, but one common theme revolves around the government

1236
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:56,720
and authority staying intentionally quiet.

1237
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,680
But why would they do this?

1238
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:04,560
Some experts and others involved in the case say it was done in the name of tourism.

1239
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:05,560
I could see that.

1240
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:07,840
Yes, me too.

1241
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:16,040
Because tourism is probably the main contributor to Panama's economic growth.

1242
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:22,280
The idea of Panama as dangerous is harmful to tourism, so it's more convenient to conclude

1243
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,680
the women died from an accident.

1244
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:34,320
So again, Adela Coriat, she expressed a similar opinion to this.

1245
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:41,000
And when she said to the Daily Beast in 2017, she said, quote, it's a sad fact, but serious

1246
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:45,040
investigation was never done by the public ministry.

1247
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,440
Everything had to be hushed up to protect tourism.

1248
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:52,560
I want tourists to come to Panama too, but the government must also do its job.

1249
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:56,520
The victims deserve justice and the family deserves to know what really happened.

1250
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:58,400
End quote.

1251
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:04,400
So now we're getting to the part of the story that could it have been a killer, like an

1252
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:08,640
actual killer beyond a cartel?

1253
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:16,320
In 2009 and 2017, over 24 tourists have gone missing in the area or turned up dead.

1254
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:22,600
A revisiting case, a revisiting of the case in 2017 brought up enough evidence to suggest

1255
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:27,720
that these disappearances, including those of Thruen and Kremers, may have been linked

1256
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,240
to a serial killer.

1257
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:34,920
Leaked law enforcement reports suggest someone dismembered the young women and scattered

1258
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:39,800
their remains deliberately, which might have happened to the others as well.

1259
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,840
Sorry, I keep hitting your leg.

1260
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:48,320
Previously authorities said that the river and the scavengers scattered the remains,

1261
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:53,480
but the state in which Bokeh resides, they indicate otherwise.

1262
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:54,960
I don't know how to pronounce that.

1263
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:56,960
I didn't look it up.

1264
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:57,960
Cherokee?

1265
01:03:57,960 --> 01:03:58,960
Cherokee?

1266
01:03:58,960 --> 01:03:59,960
Cherokee.

1267
01:03:59,960 --> 01:04:01,720
That's the name of the state.

1268
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:09,040
So the report said that after an 18-month investigation, the evidence pointed to homicide.

1269
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:14,040
Pair this with an abandoned and unanswered question such as why the two young women ended

1270
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:17,240
up so far from the main trail.

1271
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:20,720
Some will actually think it was a slaying.

1272
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:25,640
Two months after the discovery of the backpack, clothing and bones were finally found.

1273
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:31,920
Only two bones, partial of a pelvis bone and a rib bone, were ever linked to Chris Kremers.

1274
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:38,080
A total of the 33 scattered human bones being recovered, most were lasan frunes.

1275
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:45,280
And then of course, the foot still inside the shoe was the most primary form of bone

1276
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:48,200
evidence.

1277
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:50,920
So what happened to them?

1278
01:04:50,920 --> 01:04:53,080
I'm not really sure.

1279
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:54,800
I could actually see any of the above.

1280
01:04:54,800 --> 01:05:00,040
That's the part that's confusing and frustrating about this is that I could see it being human

1281
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:01,040
involvement.

1282
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:03,440
I can see it being a freak accident.

1283
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:09,880
These girls were strong and smart hikers so I could see how they wouldn't easily get

1284
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:12,000
lost especially on such a short hike.

1285
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:13,000
Yeah.

1286
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:17,080
But also like, I know I feel like even if you're an experienced hiker, you can still

1287
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:19,000
just like fall and injure yourself.

1288
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,680
Oh yeah, for sure.

1289
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:26,200
And this sounds horrible but I'm like, I hope it was just an accident and no one murdered

1290
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:27,200
them.

1291
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:32,200
It's really sad when you have to hope that but for the family's sake.

1292
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:33,200
Yes.

1293
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:36,200
I, to help them like sleep at night.

1294
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:41,200
Because I could just see be like worried sick the whole time.

1295
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:44,160
So I will conclude with this.

1296
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:50,080
The elements of pianista alone could be responsible for what happened, like what you said.

1297
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:57,200
There's also in addition to that, there's parasites in the water, dysentery, toxic plants

1298
01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:01,800
and fruits, venomous animals or insects, as well as starvation.

1299
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:08,040
These are all, you know, possible causes of death for a hiker.

1300
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:11,040
It is possible, that was plausible and possible.

1301
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:13,040
Are they both or?

1302
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:14,040
Possible.

1303
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:18,320
That during the 10 days they were presumed alive and lost, they just could not find safe

1304
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:20,560
food and water to live off.

1305
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:21,560
Live off of.

1306
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:22,560
Wow.

1307
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:31,840
It could be that because of this they no longer could think logically, got injured and succumbed

1308
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:34,760
to their injuries.

1309
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:38,560
Internet groups continue to research the disappearances which when I googled it, I mean there are

1310
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:43,800
so many Reddit articles and I mean there's a lot of really good theories out there.

1311
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:48,640
It's kind of at the point where it's like, yeah, is this helping or hurting the families?

1312
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:49,640
Yeah.

1313
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:50,640
You know?

1314
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:53,400
Like unless they're getting a definitive answer, it's really not helping.

1315
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:54,400
It's not helping.

1316
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:55,400
Yeah.

1317
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:59,400
And it says though authorities can reopen the case anytime given how many years have

1318
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:08,200
passed, no one can unequivocally explain, unequivocally, not, wow, no one can unequivocally

1319
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:13,400
explain how they died in the forests of Panama.

1320
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:17,120
And that is the story of LaZan, Frun and Chris Kremers.

1321
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:19,280
That's so sad.

1322
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:25,920
I did put in a little hiking facts at the bottom here.

1323
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:30,560
Surprisingly in the US, I didn't look up other countries but there's only four deaths per

1324
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:32,760
100,000 hikers in the United States.

1325
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:33,760
Oh wow.

1326
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:35,240
Which, I mean that's not a whole lot.

1327
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:36,240
I could do the math.

1328
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:40,960
I don't know why I'm always like, if you're going to hike, you're going to die.

1329
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:41,960
Yeah.

1330
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:44,200
I'm not convinced of that and that's why I don't hike.

1331
01:07:44,200 --> 01:07:45,200
That's not why I don't hike.

1332
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:46,200
I just don't care for hiking.

1333
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:47,200
Well, right.

1334
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:53,280
I actually do like hiking but I really like hiking during the pandemic.

1335
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:58,920
It was like the only way I could go outside and like do it with good conscience because

1336
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:03,120
you know people are like, don't go out unnecessarily and I'm like, but what if I'm doing it because

1337
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:06,400
there's no one else around and I'm going to lose my mind in my house.

1338
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:07,400
Yeah.

1339
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:10,840
I'm more of a like brisk walk around the park kind of again.

1340
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:11,840
Yeah.

1341
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:12,840
I mean, I'm not going to meet up for those.

1342
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:13,840
We did.

1343
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:14,840
Yeah.

1344
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:16,760
But we've lived in an area that really caters to hikers.

1345
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:18,920
We live in a really pretty hiking area.

1346
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:19,920
Yeah.

1347
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:25,000
And there's been a few times where I have been hiking and thought this is it.

1348
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:26,000
I'm going to die.

1349
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:27,000
I know.

1350
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:31,720
I think there is, I can't remember if it was you or another friend of ours that said like,

1351
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:35,520
oh I went for a hike by myself the other day and I'm like, never do that again.

1352
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:36,520
You're going to die.

1353
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:37,520
Yeah.

1354
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:38,520
No.

1355
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:39,520
Never do that.

1356
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:42,000
You do die, we won't know.

1357
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:43,000
We won't know.

1358
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:48,600
And that's the tips I looked up on safe hiking, which all of these girls did.

1359
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:53,480
They did not do anything wrong and that's the other thing is what you can't control

1360
01:08:53,480 --> 01:08:54,480
is other people.

1361
01:08:54,480 --> 01:09:00,080
That's why I also am leaning towards the fact that it could have been a third mysterious,

1362
01:09:00,080 --> 01:09:01,920
terrible person.

1363
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:05,440
But yeah, bring food and water.

1364
01:09:05,440 --> 01:09:13,160
So don't go alone, make sure you have enough daylight to return to your point of origin.

1365
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:15,480
It was a short hike so they could have easily done that.

1366
01:09:15,480 --> 01:09:21,440
The more I think about it, the more I think there was foul play, but yeah.

1367
01:09:21,440 --> 01:09:23,440
Just be careful out there.

1368
01:09:23,440 --> 01:09:27,880
So anyway, back to my list.

1369
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:34,120
Roughly about 60 million Americans hike yearly for deaths per 100,000 hikers.

1370
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:37,640
There is a math equation there that I did not figure out.

1371
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:42,440
The leading cause of death is traumatic brain injury because of a fall.

1372
01:09:42,440 --> 01:09:55,520
Other possible reasons for death, drowning, or something induced from activity like a

1373
01:09:55,520 --> 01:10:01,640
heart condition like sudden cardiac arrest.

1374
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:03,480
Black bears, other animals.

1375
01:10:03,480 --> 01:10:08,640
It does say that black bears kill less than one person per year on average in North America.

1376
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:09,640
Less than one person.

1377
01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:12,640
Which I'm like, they're like, can we kill half a person?

1378
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:16,480
I put in parentheses snakes being the animal that kills the most.

1379
01:10:16,480 --> 01:10:17,480
Sorry mom.

1380
01:10:17,480 --> 01:10:18,720
Wow, snakes keep showing up.

1381
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:22,720
Snakes and your mom keep showing up.

1382
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:26,320
Is my mom Taylor Swift?

1383
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:27,400
I wish.

1384
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:29,440
Give us tickets if you are.

1385
01:10:29,440 --> 01:10:30,440
Mom.

1386
01:10:30,440 --> 01:10:32,280
Laura, are you really Taylor Swift?

1387
01:10:32,280 --> 01:10:34,280
I'm not.

1388
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:37,800
Please tell us now.

1389
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:40,040
This is funny, but not funny.

1390
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:44,920
Men make up 72% of hiking related fatalities.

1391
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:48,440
It's probably because they're doing something dumb.

1392
01:10:48,440 --> 01:10:52,720
Which I mean like, guys will be the first to admit they will do stuff dumb.

1393
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:56,160
I mean there's like literally a meme of like, this is why women live longer and there's

1394
01:10:56,160 --> 01:11:01,680
a man who's like standing on something that's attached to something that's barely holding

1395
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:04,800
on to something.

1396
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:13,720
And last but not least, North Cascades National Park, which is a national park near us, the

1397
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:17,160
most deaths happen there out of every national park.

1398
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:20,320
652 deaths per 10 million visitors.

1399
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:23,240
So just let that keep you warm at night.

1400
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:27,400
And you're like, I am saying it warm because I won't be hiking.

1401
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:32,480
Which is so funny because I literally was super close to this place like a few weeks

1402
01:11:32,480 --> 01:11:33,480
ago.

1403
01:11:33,480 --> 01:11:34,480
But anyway.

1404
01:11:34,480 --> 01:11:35,480
That's it.

1405
01:11:35,480 --> 01:11:40,840
I just have to tell a quick hiking related story.

1406
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:46,480
So I can see how people can fall easily on hikes because I think it was, I don't remember

1407
01:11:46,480 --> 01:11:52,240
what year it was, but one of our friends, Kendra, I'm going to call you out, she really

1408
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:55,280
wanted to go hiking New Year's Day.

1409
01:11:55,280 --> 01:11:56,920
And I remember when you did this.

1410
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:01,680
We were driving there and it started like snowing like crazy.

1411
01:12:01,680 --> 01:12:04,200
And thankfully we were like pretty bundled up.

1412
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:12,000
But the hike took like, I don't know, I want to say like four or five hours.

1413
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:17,000
And it was kind of like a difficult hike anyway, but then it was completely covered in snow.

1414
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:20,320
And then the boots I was wearing didn't really have traction.

1415
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:25,840
And I actually fell quite a few times, but mostly just like on my butt or on my knees.

1416
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:30,640
But one time I fell and I like almost rolled off the side of the cliff.

1417
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:31,640
Oh no.

1418
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:34,440
And I was like, this is how I go.

1419
01:12:34,440 --> 01:12:37,000
This podcast would be very different if that happened.

1420
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:38,000
I wouldn't have me.

1421
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:42,200
I would be like, this is me by myself, boy, I wish I had a podcast friend.

1422
01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:46,040
And you're like, and I'm telling the story of how my friend, Olivia, passed away.

1423
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:50,840
It would be so sad.

1424
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:54,520
Except that I feel like I, because that also happened to me, I was not on snow, but I was

1425
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:59,960
on the like a seaside cliff because we were going on a crazy hike.

1426
01:12:59,960 --> 01:13:01,880
And I told someone, I think I almost died.

1427
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:05,120
And they're like, well, you know, what's not a good hike until you almost die.

1428
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:08,440
I don't think that's a good catchphrase for something.

1429
01:13:08,440 --> 01:13:09,920
I don't know.

1430
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:15,360
I don't want to do anything and be like, it's not good if you, unless you almost die.

1431
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:18,200
Which is why we go to Disneyland and not Six Flags.

1432
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:19,200
Exactly.

1433
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:20,200
Sorry.

1434
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:21,200
Six Flags.

1435
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:22,200
Certainly not Action Park.

1436
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:23,200
Callback.

1437
01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:28,080
Callback to New Jersey in 1980.

1438
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:31,080
Anyway, that's that.

1439
01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:32,080
That is my story.

1440
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:39,400
That was, I really hope, I hope, hope, hope because crazier things have happened as far

1441
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:42,560
as like DNA testing evidence.

1442
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:47,440
There's not much to go off of, but I really hope we find some sort of evidence that can

1443
01:13:47,440 --> 01:13:48,440
help.

1444
01:13:48,440 --> 01:13:50,440
And Chris's families.

1445
01:13:50,440 --> 01:13:55,440
I hope so too, and I hope it's not that someone killed them.

1446
01:13:55,440 --> 01:13:57,480
I really do.

1447
01:13:57,480 --> 01:13:58,480
That would be the best.

1448
01:13:58,480 --> 01:14:02,440
If it was, I mean, it's sad when you're like, I just hope it was an accident.

1449
01:14:02,440 --> 01:14:03,440
Yeah.

1450
01:14:03,440 --> 01:14:04,440
But yeah.

1451
01:14:04,440 --> 01:14:05,440
Yeah.

1452
01:14:05,440 --> 01:14:07,960
Also, I want to know more about Azul.

1453
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:08,960
He sounds cute.

1454
01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:09,960
I know.

1455
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:12,480
I really hope that Azul tried to get them help.

1456
01:14:12,480 --> 01:14:17,000
I imagine a dog would see girls in trouble and be like, I will go get you help.

1457
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:18,000
Yeah.

1458
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:19,000
He was a good boy.

1459
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:24,000
And then, the people were like, why is this dog, what is he trying to tell us?

1460
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:25,880
And he's like, follow me.

1461
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:26,880
Yeah.

1462
01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:31,280
That I, unless Azul was the killer.

1463
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:32,280
He would never.

1464
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:33,280
He would never.

1465
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:34,280
We already know him.

1466
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:35,280
We're like, he's a good boy.

1467
01:14:35,280 --> 01:14:37,080
He is a good boy.

1468
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:43,560
Also, I'm just like full of stories today, but do you remember when I was in Taiwan and

1469
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:47,520
I texted you, I was like going on a hike, not by myself.

1470
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:48,520
Oh yeah.

1471
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:51,280
I was at a waterfall and there was this sweet dog.

1472
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:56,800
There was like a food stand kind of in the middle of the trail and there was this cute

1473
01:14:56,800 --> 01:15:00,040
dog that followed me all the way up the trail.

1474
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:05,240
And then he followed me all the way back down and then took a nap by me while I was eating.

1475
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:06,240
He was the sweetest boy.

1476
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:08,440
Is it because he was hoping for a little snack?

1477
01:15:08,440 --> 01:15:09,440
I don't think so.

1478
01:15:09,440 --> 01:15:13,320
I think he gets a lot of snacks because his owner was like the vendor.

1479
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:14,320
Oh yeah.

1480
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:15,720
So I think he gets a lot of snacks.

1481
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:16,720
That's cute.

1482
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:17,720
I love that.

1483
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:20,840
The part of Taiwan was all the little dogs I befriended.

1484
01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:21,840
And cats.

1485
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:22,840
Oh my gosh.

1486
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:24,120
Yes, lots of cats.

1487
01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:25,120
I know.

1488
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:28,040
I want like everything should just be more like Taiwan.

1489
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:32,480
I just really like that we have both been to Taiwan and we're like this is the best place.

1490
01:15:32,480 --> 01:15:33,640
It is actually the best place.

1491
01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:35,000
It is the best place.

1492
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:40,200
And I love that like all the food vendors and like pretty much any shop you go into,

1493
01:15:40,200 --> 01:15:42,960
people just like have their dog or cat there.

1494
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:44,200
And that's usually just chilling.

1495
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:45,200
And they're just chilling.

1496
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:48,160
And they usually have the best haircut you've ever seen.

1497
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:49,720
Ever seen.

1498
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:54,480
Unlike the barber in the 1800s who was also pulling your teeth.

1499
01:15:54,480 --> 01:15:55,480
Yeah.

1500
01:15:55,480 --> 01:15:58,000
He was like that for a callback.

1501
01:15:58,000 --> 01:15:59,480
That was good callback.

1502
01:15:59,480 --> 01:16:00,480
That was yeah.

1503
01:16:00,480 --> 01:16:05,800
Like I'm reaching it's 10 o'clock and I have an hour drive home.

1504
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:08,640
So now I'm like we should we should wrap it up.

1505
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:12,280
But at the same time I'm like let's tell another story.

1506
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:15,400
People have just like slowly turned off this podcast.

1507
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:17,280
We're like we know.

1508
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:23,120
We're like welcome back to which office character are you?

1509
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:24,120
Oh.

1510
01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:25,120
I'm Jim.

1511
01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:26,120
Probably.

1512
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:27,120
I don't know.

1513
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:28,120
Maybe I'm not.

1514
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:30,120
I feel like I'm Karen.

1515
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:31,120
Oh yeah.

1516
01:16:31,120 --> 01:16:32,120
Oh.

1517
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:33,120
I'm like Karen.

1518
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:34,120
I'm sorry I never.

1519
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:37,280
I don't really like Jim and Pam.

1520
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:40,800
They had a toxic relationship.

1521
01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:44,320
And they're kind of like that couple that you know and you're like oh my gosh they're

1522
01:16:44,320 --> 01:16:45,320
the worst.

1523
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:48,160
They think they're so cute and they're so annoying.

1524
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:50,680
They do get better just like anyone.

1525
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:51,680
Yeah.

1526
01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:54,040
I always I liked Karen.

1527
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:56,080
She's like the only chill one.

1528
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:59,600
Well yeah because she's amazing.

1529
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:00,600
Because she's Rashida Jones.

1530
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:01,600
Uh huh.

1531
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:04,040
And I was trying to think of her character from Parks and Rik.

1532
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:05,040
Anne.

1533
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:06,040
Anne.

1534
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:07,040
Anne Perkins.

1535
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:09,040
Anne Perkins you beautiful.

1536
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:11,120
Beautiful tropical fish.

1537
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:12,120
Tropical fish.

1538
01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:13,120
Anyway.

1539
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:15,400
Well on that note.

1540
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:19,280
Um please.

1541
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:20,280
If you follow us.

1542
01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:23,200
Oh by the way we need to plug our Instagram.

1543
01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:26,080
Oh yeah please follow us on Instagram.

1544
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:35,560
It is our Instagram is at oddly curious underscore podcast because oddly curious has already taken.

1545
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:43,920
And also please comment and say which golden girl, clue character or office character you

1546
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:44,920
are.

1547
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:45,920
And Brooklyn Nighnight.

1548
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:46,920
Brooklyn Nighnight.

1549
01:17:46,920 --> 01:17:47,920
And really whatever you want to tell us.

1550
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:48,920
Yeah.

1551
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:49,920
Please tell us.

1552
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:53,920
I really want to know like just tell us the fictional character you're the most like.

1553
01:17:53,920 --> 01:17:55,920
That's my favorite question to ask anyone.

1554
01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:57,160
Anyone.

1555
01:17:57,160 --> 01:18:02,320
And usually minor people are like I'm worried about you.

1556
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:07,600
And when I ask a lot of people they'll be like I've never thought about that and I just

1557
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:09,040
think I cannot relate to you.

1558
01:18:09,040 --> 01:18:13,520
I'm like I have only been thinking that this is my way of coping with life.

1559
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:20,320
Maybe because I'm really watching Sesame Street and being like am I am I Grover.

1560
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:23,840
That explains why I like you.

1561
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:24,840
Grover was my favorite.

1562
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:25,840
Really?

1563
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:26,840
Yeah.

1564
01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:29,520
Because I was just like he was anxious but he was doing something about it.

1565
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:31,520
I'm like telly.

1566
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:32,520
Yeah.

1567
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:33,520
Which is funny we have a friend named Telly.

1568
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:34,520
I know I was like not that telly.

1569
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:35,520
But do you remember Telly?

1570
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:36,520
Yeah.

1571
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:37,520
Telly the monster.

1572
01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:39,800
Yeah I don't know.

1573
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:42,520
I'd like to think I'm Elmo but I don't know if I am.

1574
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:43,520
Oh.

1575
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:44,520
Elmo's so cute.

1576
01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:45,520
He's so cute.

1577
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:50,200
I like that he just has no time for Rocco.

1578
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:51,200
Hello Rocco.

1579
01:18:51,200 --> 01:18:53,400
He's like he's a Roc.

1580
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:54,400
Yeah.

1581
01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:56,640
Oh yeah were we trying to wrap this up I forgot.

1582
01:18:56,640 --> 01:18:57,640
We will.

1583
01:18:57,640 --> 01:18:58,640
Okay.

1584
01:18:58,640 --> 01:19:01,360
Okay on that note please be careful when you're hiking.

1585
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:11,640
And be wary of snake oil salesmen unless they actually have the Chinese water snake

1586
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:12,640
balm.

1587
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:14,140
Yeah do your research.

1588
01:19:14,140 --> 01:19:18,960
Yeah please do your research and stay hydrated and don't listen to Gwyneth Paltrow.

1589
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:21,680
Well I mean yes you're right.

1590
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:22,680
Yeah.

1591
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:24,680
And good night.

1592
01:19:24,680 --> 01:19:25,680
Good night.

1593
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:31,680
Bye.