And so I say your name, my name.
Do I say hello or do I say my name?
I think you just say this is true.
Oh, that's right.
I'm so sorry.
That's OK.
It's not like we've done it twice already.
I think it's been twice.
That's not many times.
OK.
This is Drew.
And this is Olivia.
And we are oddly curious forever.
We're still working on the engine.
Yeah.
We're forever.
Amen.
I know why.
The intro is so hard.
I don't know how to make it less awkward.
So Drew, what's been going on with you?
Oh, well, I think in the last episode,
I talked about how I was sick.
And then I got better.
And then I got sick again.
I actually went to IKEA with one of my roommates.
And we walked around for four hours.
And I actually felt myself getting sick again
while I was there.
I never get sick.
I've been sick for six weeks.
And I'm finally better today.
So that's my win.
You've been sick since we started this podcast.
Yes.
Oh, no.
I'm like, does that mean something?
No, it doesn't.
Other than that, I guess I'm happy to be healthy and alive.
And drinking tea at your house.
Yes.
I'm glad you're drinking tea at my house too.
What's going on with you?
Let's see.
I don't think anything too exciting.
It's been, it feels like it's been a long week.
What day is it?
It's a Friday.
I actually didn't remember when you asked.
Yeah, it's been a long, discombobulated week.
Yeah.
But I was talking to you about this a little bit before.
So I just feel I have to tell this story
because it's amusing to me.
So I had stumbled upon this thing on TikTok
that was new to me, where it was like people putting in
all these fun flavored things into their water.
And I'm trying to drink less soda.
So I was like, great.
That sounds like it'd be something fun.
So I went down to the Dollar Tree.
I got a few flavors of like Sonic flavor.
Which I didn't even know they were at the Dollar Tree.
Right?
That's cool.
I love the Dollar Tree.
And then there was like pink starburst flavored ones.
And so I was like, I'm going to like try that as my new like
treat, because then I'm still getting hydrated.
But it tastes good.
And so I tried that last night.
I tried the Sonic Ocean Water one.
And I put it in like 40 ounces of water
because I don't like it super sweet.
And I was like, wow, this is really good.
This is going to be a fun new drink.
And then I hadn't even finished it.
And I literally felt like I was going to throw up.
Oh, no.
And it felt like I had done like a bunch of shots of tequila.
Oh my gosh.
And Sonic, what are you doing?
But really it was just like sugar water.
But is it actually sugar?
Or is it like it's aspartame?
Aspartame.
Oh my gosh.
But that's in Diet Coke.
And so I was like, yeah.
Oh, that should be fine for me.
But apparently I don't do well with dyes.
Like the dyes that are in foods like that.
And yeah.
I hate that when you're trying to be healthy,
you actually, your body punishes you.
Yeah.
And then if like, surprise, this actually
has like a bunch of chemicals in it.
You're not being healthy.
What about like the Mio drops?
Probably the Mio.
I don't think those are probably good.
I've tried those before.
They didn't make me feel anything.
But I don't like it too sweet.
So it's like I do less.
I do like a drop for like 40 ounces.
But it really helps you drink like a gallon of water
if you want, because it's like treat water.
I'm like, it's delicious water.
I mean, I already like water.
Yeah, me actually.
Yeah, me too.
I'm like, don't.
We're like, we like water.
We like it.
Don't worry.
But anyway, I'm like, I'll just stick with Diet Coke
because it doesn't make me feel good.
Oh, I figured to be like, I'll stick with tea.
I'm like, well, Diet Coke works too.
I mean, pretty much any beverage that doesn't make me feel
it's because we're beverage, we're beverage,
we're beverage friends.
We're beverage girlies.
Because it's like, we're not happy until we have three beverages
at once.
It's true.
So anyway.
Yeah, anyway.
Yeah.
I don't even know if I'm going to have Roman Lee
that in.
But yeah, there we go.
It's just, I do like the idea of drinking a lot of water.
And sometimes water, as much as I like it,
it's like, this is boring.
Yeah.
I need excitement in my life.
I'm like, I'll just stick with liquid IV.
It's, oh, see that I like.
Yeah.
I don't know who I was trying to be.
Trying to be fun, whatever.
Well, I don't know.
I feel like the people that can handle the sonic things,
I'm like, they probably have iron stavix.
I do not.
I do not, either.
Anyway.
So I believe it is my turn to go first this week.
You are going first this week.
I'm nervous.
And I'm excited.
I don't know why I'm nervous.
I mean, I guess it's only our third recording.
Yeah.
But still.
But this.
You're a pro at this by now.
Thank you.
Thanks.
This is a topic that I haven't interested in in a long time.
In a long time.
For a long time.
There we go.
You love it long time.
Oh.
Oh, no.
I'm sorry.
Roman cut that out.
Sorry.
OK.
Oh.
Oh, god.
We should also say we're recording kind of late
so we're a little punchy.
Yeah.
But anyway.
Anyway.
I'm sorry.
I've been interested in this case for a long time.
Yes.
And I've listened to a lot of different podcasts about it.
So I wanted to do it.
And it is the disappearance of Alisa Lam.
Oh, man.
This is going to be good in a horrifying way.
I know.
It's the fact that you're doing it because I feel like you have
always been interested in it.
And you're going to treat it respectfully.
And I feel like we've always had really good discussions
about it.
So this is going to be a good one.
It's a very sad one.
But it's also interesting.
OK.
So my sources for this topic were an article on all things
interesting, an article on investigation discovery
by Aaron Rasmussen, and then a podcast
that I really like called Stuff They Don't
Want You to Know Podcast, which sounds
like it'd be a conspiracy theory podcast.
But it's not really.
Yeah.
I've listened to them before, too.
And they're great.
I think they are very intelligent the way
they bring about the topic.
And they're also very respectful about this case as well.
Oh, perfect.
So let's jump into the case.
So on January 26, 2013, Alisa Lam arrived in LA.
Alisa was a student of the University of British Columbia
visiting the US.
Her plan was to travel all throughout California,
and she called it her West Coast tour.
And it was a solo trip.
But during her travels, she regularly
updated her travel blog and checked in with her parents
each day just so people could know where she was
and know that she was safe.
So while in LA, Alisa was staying at the Cecil Hotel.
And this is an infamous hotel that any true crime fan knows
about.
It's a hotel on Skid Row that has been host to serial killers,
including Richard Ramirez when he was active.
There's been many suicides there and just overall a lot
of criminal activity.
So it's already bad for a young woman traveling alone
to be in this place.
Bad vibes.
I've always wondered about the suicides.
Is it people that go there and they're in a place in life
where they're like, this is my plan?
Or is it because just being there to press them further?
And they were like, I got to get out of here.
Or yeah.
One of the things that they talked about on stuff
they all want you to know is that even if you don't believe,
which I don't, in places being haunted,
there are just places that have bad vibes.
I agree.
And I think if you're in a place like that long enough,
then it kind of starts to rub off on you.
Yeah.
Because we're very influence.
We are.
Influensible.
It is now.
Yeah.
And I think isn't Cecil Hotel, I mean,
the building is still standing.
But they've changed it because they wanted to give it
like a fresh glow up.
But I feel like we have also talked about how we've always
wanted to go there.
We have.
Yes.
And not stay there.
Not stay there.
I like they were like, it has really bad vibes.
So when are we going?
No.
We just want to visit it.
We do.
Yeah.
And hopefully see it.
Hopefully it's a more well kept.
Yeah.
I mean, it's a good building.
It is.
So anyway, Alisa's parents didn't hear from her on January 31.
And this was very unusual for her.
So they began to worry.
And they contacted the Los Angeles Police Department.
And a couple of weeks had passed since anyone
had heard from Alisa.
And then the hotel began to receive complaints
about water pressure, as well as the water being discolored
and foul tasting from several of the people staying there.
So worker Santiago Lopez went to the roof
and scaled the ladder attached to one of the four water
towers.
When he got to the top, the hatch on the water tower
was open.
And he discovered the nude body of Alisa Lam
floating face up.
She was found with her clothes floating next to her.
And there was no sign of sexual assault or foul play.
Or later the coroner even said it didn't look like it was
suicide.
So it was ruled an accidental drowning.
The question is, how did this happen?
The only evidence was footage from the day
that Alisa disappeared.
And this is very famous footage.
If you are all familiar with this case
and you're able to see it on YouTube,
nothing happens in the video.
So it's not anything disturbing other than she looks
like she either is scared or not in her right mind.
Yeah, I always thought it's not disturbing,
but knowing it's the last time you see her alive.
Yeah.
And some people have analyzed it.
It looks like she's either talking to somebody, right?
Or maybe talking to herself.
I think there's a part of it that's a little bit,
maybe it's just sad that it's like, this is it.
Yeah.
And getting into that footage now.
Oh, I'm so sorry.
No.
OK.
You're like, stop talking.
So in the footage, she steps in and out of the elevator,
poking her head out toward the hotel hallways.
And she looks out another few times
before exiting the elevator.
And she, oh, I'm so sorry.
You know what?
I'm going to have Roman edit that part.
Robin.
So the footage shows her stepping into the elevator.
And then she pushes all the buttons.
So then the doors are open.
And she steps in and out of the elevator a few times,
poking her head out towards the hotel hallways.
She looks out another few times before exiting the elevator.
And during this time, she's seen moving her hands
in random gestures.
And like you said, at times, it appears
like she is talking to herself or talking to someone else.
So people have wondered if maybe she was being followed
by someone and she was trying to get people's attention,
or if she was having some sort of episode
and was just talking to herself.
And Alisa had previously been diagnosed with bipolar disorder
and was on medication for it.
And the coroner believes that this footage and her getting
into the water tower, seemingly of her own volition,
were part of a manic episode and that her death was just
a tragic accident.
But of course, with any true crime story,
there are other theories as to what happened.
So one is, of course, people wonder about foul play.
Many people doubted that she would be able to get up
to the roof and climb the water tower on her own.
Because it was supposed to, the door to the roof
was supposed to be locked.
But from everything we know about the hotel at the time,
it would not be surprising if some of the staff didn't
lock up like they were supposed to.
Right.
And it would have been hard for her
to climb to the actual water tower
because there was a 10 foot ladder that would help her get up.
But some noted that the fact that the lid of the water
tower was between 30 to 50 pounds, it might have been
difficult for petite little Elisa to lift
because she was a petite woman.
And then some, of course, thought
that something supernatural was at play
due to the hotel's violent history
and the superstitions around that.
But one particularly interesting and out there theory
was that her death was somehow linked to playing
the elevator game.
Have you heard of the elevator game?
Yeah, I think so.
But I'm really excited that you're going to tell me right now.
Yes, I am.
So the game is said to take you to a different plane
of existence that looks similar to yours.
You emerge and everything is the same,
but all the lights are off and you
can see a red cross in the distance.
Why it's a red cross?
I don't know why.
Red cross as in like the institution.
Not the institution.
I don't know.
In my mind, I'm like it's a very Stanley Kubrick
type of imagery of just like a glowing red cross.
OK, yeah.
I see it.
I mean, I don't see it right now.
It is not in the room with us.
I'm like blink twice if you are in a different dimension.
Do you see a red cross?
Well, if you manage to reach this plane,
returning to your world would be difficult.
And if you were actually on that plane,
I would not be right here because you
would be the only living thing on that plane of existence.
How do we know that it exists?
I don't know.
But I am going to get into it's like this sort of like
on there like on Reddit or whatever they're like source.
Trust me, bro.
And that's pretty much what I'm going to say right now.
Trust me, bro.
Here are the rules for the game.
So only one person can play at a time.
It has to be performed in a building at least 10 stories
high with an elevator.
You enter the elevator on the first floor by yourself.
If anyone else enters with you, you cannot continue.
You press the button for the fourth floor.
When it reaches the fourth floor, stay inside and press
the button for the second floor.
Stay in when you reach the second floor
and press the button for the sixth floor.
Don't get out.
Go back to the second floor.
Once you're back at the second floor,
press the button for the tenth floor.
And if you hear anything calling to you on the second
floor, don't answer.
Once you get to the tenth floor,
press the button for the fifth floor.
When you get to the fifth floor, a woman will enter and try
to talk to you.
Don't speak to her.
Don't look at her.
Press the button for the first floor.
If the ritual worked, you will start going up to the tenth
floor instead of to the first floor.
When you reach the tenth floor, you can stay inside or exit
the elevator.
The only way to know that you've traveled to the other world
for sure is that you'll be the only living thing there.
Oh my gosh.
First of all, there are so many numbers.
Right.
I'd be like, I'm bad at math.
Am I on the fifth floor?
I don't remember.
I know.
I'm like, I don't know how you would do this without someone
noticing, because personally, I would have to write this all
down to remember any of it.
And then what if someone just gets into the elevator
and you're like, no, don't talk to me.
You're the one.
This girl's a real jerk.
She's like, hey, can I get directions?
And you're like, I can't look at you.
But anyway, I thought that was a very fascinating.
Also, this is very scary sounding.
It is very scary.
It's like, mom, pick me up.
I'm scared.
Scenarios.
It kind of reminds me.
It's like reminding me of an episode of Welcome to Night Vale
or something.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Or the Twilight Zone.
Or the Twilight Zone, definitely.
OG.
Or the OG.
So although urban legends like this
are very interesting to discuss and think about,
it is most likely that Elisa did, in fact, accidentally drown.
Only Elisa truly knows what her mental state was at the time
and the severity of her mental illness.
No matter what you choose to believe,
it's a tragedy that such a young woman with her whole life
ahead of her had her life cut short.
And that is the sad story of the disappearance
and mysterious death of Elisa Lam.
Oh, man.
This one always gets to me because it's like,
we understand how mental illness can really
affect your day-to-day life.
And I mean, sometimes you can just
be in a place where you're like, I'm not doing well.
You're alone.
You're in a different country.
I mean, who knows?
She might have been scared.
She was young and impressionable.
And the fact that I don't know, the part of her clothes being
off, I always imagined that she took them off to swim.
Or I don't even know.
Who would take them off of her?
I don't know.
Yeah, especially like the coroner said,
there was no evidence of sexual assault.
I mean, of course, I always have Paul Holes
in the back of my mind.
He always says, there doesn't have to be a sexual assault
for there to be a sexual gratification for someone
who is killing.
Yes.
Which is an unfortunate truth.
It is unfortunate truth.
But I also always have to remember that.
I mean, I don't know why I have to remember that.
I'm not.
You're like, every day you're like, hey, it's gratification.
I don't know.
You're like, people are bad?
I don't.
I'm like just telling people, do you know?
Do you know that there doesn't have to be a sexual assault?
Yeah.
Well, and she was in the water for so long
because people were starting to taste.
I know.
Which is the thought alone is like,
I feel bad for those people.
But I also feel devastated for her family, that whole idea.
But could DNA or anything that would prove sexual assault
have been, I guess, washed away or degraded?
So I don't know.
But also, who in their right mind is
drinking California tap water anyway?
That is a real thing because I grew up going to San Diego
to visit my grandparents.
And everyone had colagin water.
Like if you were going to drink the tap water,
they would slap the cup out of your hand.
Rightfully so.
Because I remember even one time being like, oh my gosh.
Like I got it out of the tap and I was like sniffing it.
I'm like, what happened?
And they're like, oh yeah, you have to boil it
if you want to drink it.
And this is a state in the United States
who are like, do not drink this water.
Even the filtered water because whenever we would go
to Disneyland, when we first started going,
I would just ask for water at one of the restaurants.
And I'm like, this is the worst tasting water ever.
And I'm like, that's how they get you
to spend so much money on bottled water
because they know the water's trash.
I mean, even if the water is OK to drink
because it's like clearly it's safe to drink,
it tastes weird because they have like, there are,
I mean, who knows how many processes it had to go through.
And weird things had to be added, which I mean,
they probably have fluoride in it.
So good teeth maybe.
But that's our PSA.
Don't drink California water or hotel water.
Yeah.
Yeah, don't drink hotel water.
No.
Oh, man.
I mean, I guess in a way they felt.
We have talked about water a lot.
We have.
And you know what?
My story is a lot of water in it.
Not to be disrespectful to Elisa Lam.
It's just funny.
I'm like, oh my.
I know.
I am not trying to make light of this story at all.
But truly, when I read that they were drinking the water
and they're like, oh, it tastes funny.
I'm like, I don't know.
I don't know if that I would notice anything different.
I'd be like, oh, it's just California.
Yeah, I know.
But I mean, I guess.
You know, there's Californians listening or like, hey.
And then they're like, we know.
They're like, that's why we have our filter.
That's why Collagen will be forever in business.
But I do remember when I would, I mean,
like at my grandparents' house, I would brush my teeth
with tap water.
You know what?
I think that is what there was like a couple interviewed
that they were one of the ones that had complained to the staff.
And I think I remember them saying it was when
they're brushing their teeth.
Yeah.
So you're right.
Which is the worst time, because you're like,
I'm wanting my mouth to be clean.
Why is this water bumming my mouth out so bad?
Yeah.
And they were, oh, gosh.
I remember there were like tourists from another country.
And I'm like, what a horrible experience to go to a hotel.
And then you find out why the water tastes bad.
And then there's like this tragic murder of this young girl
while you're there.
Yeah.
That would be traumatic.
And they have not visited since.
They went back and they're like, never again.
They're like, no.
California, you had your chance.
You ruined it.
We like you, California.
Yeah.
Well, yeah, we do.
I mean, come on.
We love you so much.
But we just don't like your water.
Or your traffic.
Come on.
Get it together.
It just started turning like a stand up for today.
No.
I remember.
So we have talked about the Cease the Hotel documentary,
how it's not great.
But one thing it did remind me of,
this was a time when Tumblr was big.
Alisa was a Tumblr girl.
Yes, she was.
And I'm thinking, I think of all the weird stuff
that has come out of Tumblr to this day.
But really back in like what year was it again?
2013.
I was going to say, like 2010 to 2013 was like Tumblr heyday,
I think.
Oh, yeah.
We were on the trenches.
Oh, yeah.
We were both there.
I won't talk about what I've done.
I didn't do anything weird.
I'm just like, it sounds like you killed the man.
No, I really just like reblogged a lot of pictures
of Benedict cover batch.
I was a different person then.
2013 Tumblr.
It was a time to be alive.
It was.
But it makes me wonder if the elevator game was something
that was talked about on there.
Because that was also like during this Lenderman era
or Creepypasta.
That really became a thing.
And a lot of people believed Creepypastas,
they're not real.
But it makes you wonder if she was in a psychotic episode
and she read this, she's like, oh, that's
something I could do.
It just makes you think.
The internet.
Yeah.
I remember another thing they talked about on the podcast
was that her, I think it was her Tumblr account,
that it was like a month after she had been found.
There was a picture that had just been posted on her Tumblr
account.
And they're theorizing us how that happened.
Did someone have, must have had access to her?
Yeah.
But it was such a random picture.
It was a picture of a light bulb.
But inside the light bulb, there was this little snowy
landscape and a snow globe.
Kind of like a snow globe in a light bulb.
Oh, interesting.
But I was like, either she scheduled that to be posted
at a certain time.
Because you can do that if I remember my Tumblr correctly.
You could schedule posts.
Yeah.
Because it was a cue.
I know too much about Tumblr.
Please don't think of me as a Tumblr president.
I mean, we are at that age.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm a lot older than you.
But we are both in the era.
So yeah.
We're both millennials.
We are.
But yeah, I think that could have been a scheduled post.
But either way, that is actually kind of unnerving
that that would happen.
That would make me worry even more if I was her family.
Me too.
Has access to this, if anyone does.
Yeah.
I don't like that even to this day.
I mean, that's been 10 years now.
They don't have any more evidence.
I know.
And the family also tried to sue for negligence
of the hotel.
But the judge dismissed it because it
was such an extraordinary circumstance.
If you were thinking of someone in their right state of mind,
you would never think, oh, someone's
going to go up to the roof and climb into the water tower.
So it was dismissed.
But I feel bad for the family.
Because I'm sure they still blame the hotel,
even though it doesn't sound like it was their fault.
Right.
That's just a tragedy.
And I really hope someday more evidence comes to light.
Or I hope someone's not giving up on that case.
Because you know, I mean, Los Angeles,
they have their fair share of things happening where they
might have to put their manpower elsewhere.
But you're like, please don't give up on these cold cases.
Yeah.
And even if it is, that just she died accidentally.
I'm sure the family would like to know what
the last hours of her life were.
So anyway, that was very good.
That's my sad case.
Yeah.
That was really good.
And I appreciate learning about the elevator game.
So when are we going to do this?
No.
I'm just kidding.
I'm like, this is too weird.
I'm like, I don't know.
It just looks so dumb.
The Shiloh Inn.
I don't know.
I'm just reading.
Like, what hotel?
What?
It has to be 10 stories.
Where is even a 10 story building that we could go to?
I don't know.
We'll have to plan this one.
We need to go to the Empire State Building,
the ultimate elevator game.
But you would never be able to get it to yourself.
That's true.
Oh, yeah.
I thought I know that part.
You can't get on this elevator.
I'm doing something.
So many angry tourists.
I know.
Yeah.
But oh well.
Thank you for sharing.
Do you want to take a break?
Yes.
Let's take a break, and we will be back for more.
So with your story, I'm going to take a hard left, I guess,
depending on where you're standing.
Anyway, I'm going straight to the Atlantic Ocean.
We're just heading straight over there.
And I'm going to tell you, Olivia, about the Bermuda
Triangle.
I'm so excited.
Eight-year-old me would be very excited about this.
Current me is also excited about this.
This is one of those things you learn when you're eight
and you're like, what is happening to this world?
Why aren't we doing something about this?
Kind of like quicksand where you're like, oh my gosh.
And then you become an adult and you're like, oh,
there's worse things out there.
Yeah.
And then when you're a kid, you're like, well, obviously,
my biggest problems are the Bermuda Triangle and quicksand.
Those are my priorities.
Yeah.
And then so you find out about it,
and you go home after school, and you're
trying to tell your mom everything you've
learned about the Bermuda Triangle.
And she's like, please just let me cook dinner.
Or I'm balancing my checkbook.
So anyway, we're going to talk about this.
And why is it the way it is?
So my sources for, what did I wrote?
Resources.
No.
My sources for Bermuda Triangle are an article
by Kim Dismont Robinson called Bermuda Triangle
Demystified in Cyclopedia Britannica and our One True
Love Wikipedia.
Yay.
OK, so the Bermuda Triangle.
This is one of those places in the world,
in our modern world, I guess, that still have this aura
of mystery of, I mean, it still exists.
It's on our globe, but it's kind of like, what is actually
happening over there?
And this is a section of the North Atlantic Ocean
off the South Eastern coast of North America,
so off of the Florida coast.
And this is an area where at least 50 ships and 20 airplanes
are have said to mysteriously disappear.
Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
This area have boundaries that are not really
universally agreed upon, but the vague triangular shape
we're going to make in our brain is so the lower point
will be Florida, the panhandle.
I guess, like Miami.
And then up North, which I like geography,
that's one of my favorite subjects in school.
I did not, in my brain, I did not remember
that Bermuda is north of Florida.
And I always think of the Caribbean islands
as being south of the Florida Keys.
Like in my head, I'm like, oh, they're all down there.
No.
See, I don't have really any concept of north, south, east,
west.
You know, I have a really bad sense of direction.
I'm like, I can't do left or right to save my life.
I can do that.
So together.
Together, we will get out of whatever we're in.
Probably.
Maybe not the Bermuda Triangle, but probably not.
But were you going to say that you knew where Bermuda was?
No.
Oh.
I was like, we're.
I'm just saying.
She's so smart.
I'm still impressed.
Oh, OK.
Because I don't know any of that.
Well, I guess.
I mean, if you look at the map, which let me look it up
really quick, because boy, well, I look silly if I'm wrong.
We'll just cut all of that.
Yeah.
Bermuda, which, man, let's go to Bermuda.
All of these places I talk about when I would look them up,
I would be like, yeah, I'm down any time you want to go.
So yeah, Bermuda is kind of just really out there.
It's surrounded by so much empty water,
and it is parallel to South Carolina, which I did not even
realize.
Interesting.
Right?
But it's so far from South Carolina.
So it's like you're thinking, oh, it's, you know, you can see it.
You can't.
But if you just drew a line, you just head straight into it.
And so that's the tip of the top.
Nope.
That is the tip of our triangle is Bermuda.
So we have Miami, Bermuda, and then the lower left, nope,
right sink, dang it, point would be greater
in Tillies or Puerto Rico.
So we have our little triangle.
What's really weird is if you look it up,
sometimes people think that that point could actually
be Chesapeake Bay or even I read that some people will even
stretch this triangle to the Irish Sea, which it's like,
is that even a triangle shape anymore?
I guess it is.
But it's just like a really skinny head triangle.
We have to draw this out.
Yeah.
I'm like, so that's not the Bermuda triangle anymore.
That's the Irish Sea triangle.
What's going on in Irish Sea?
I saw Solies.
I don't know.
Anyway, so let's just stick with our regular triangle
that we know.
This is sometimes called the Devil's Triangle,
the limbo of the Lost, the Twilight Zone, which I mean,
which came first, that or the TV show, you wonder,
or the Houdou Sea.
Such an interesting thing.
I know.
And then so this is an area that covers 500,000 square miles
of Atlantic Ocean, which, real talk,
did you know that there is a garbage patch floating
in the ocean, which I mean, yes, we do.
Yeah.
I'm answering that for you.
You know that.
I do know that.
Yeah.
Because we talked about it before.
So this is actually in the Pacific.
But I think we looked it up and there's
like garbage patches all over the world, which is really sad.
What was it like?
The five main garbage patches.
Yeah.
Our world is falling apart.
And yeah.
It's all trash.
The ocean is trash.
So the Bermuda Triangle is 500,000 square miles.
This garbage patch is two times the size of the Bermuda
Triangle.
I hate that.
Yes, which then I was thinking about it.
Like, I haven't really seen pictures.
I think it would bum me out too much to see it.
But is this structurally sound?
Could this actually become a new land?
Could we create garbage patch island?
Is that like how long island happened?
Oh, yeah.
I don't know.
People in Long Island are like, why I ought to?
If that's not true, I'm sorry.
I know.
I'm sure there.
I mean, I know that our places that have like dump sites
that have become places.
Yeah.
But like, it's not an insult.
No.
It's just, I mean, I thought you were going to be like,
isn't that how Hawaii happened?
And I'm like, no, wait.
No, that was a volcano.
This is like a trash volcano.
I'm aware that Hawaii is a volcano.
I don't know why.
Hawaii is like, we are actually beautiful and stunning
and get your garbage away from me.
I know Hawaii.
I never want to leave you.
Oh, no.
Let's go there.
OK.
So funny is like, OK, so this giant garbage patch,
I was thinking about it.
Like, could we go there?
Could we create our own system of government?
But you've got to know there's like probably seagulls on it
just taking over.
The seagulls have their own government.
Yeah, there's probably a king seagull as we speak.
Oh, no.
Like a king.
No, ew.
No.
Like, it's just a big seagull with a crown made out
of french fries.
Oh, that's kind of cute.
That's actually so cute.
But anyway, he would probably eat it first.
Yeah.
I realize this is really sad.
I wasn't trying to bum you out that our world is dying
and when will the garbage patch end?
Maybe never.
Maybe it will all be a garbage patch one day.
But anyway, back to the more fun thing, the Bermuda Triangle.
So the very first time this name Bermuda Triangle had been
christened was actually not that long ago.
It was in 1964.
And an article by Vincent Gatiss,
he wrote it for Argosy Magazine and it was called
the Deadly Bermuda Triangle.
So he kind of coined it.
But before the myth of this triangle became popular,
Bermuda itself, this island nation that I talked about,
if you look at it on the map, it really looks very lonely.
It's really in this big, vast stretch of ocean
that looks like, wow.
I mean, you are really out there.
Are you?
OK.
Yeah, they're having a good time over there.
They're like, leave us alone.
Yeah.
Please look at pictures and wish you were with us
because we are great.
But long ago, it had a reputation
for being an enchanted island.
Yeah.
In fact, for many years, it was nicknamed the Devil's Island
or Devil's Islands because I mean,
there has more than just one island.
It has a few happening.
I think there's like two.
Oh, no.
Bermuda is going to be so mad at me for messing this up.
Sorry, Bermuda.
If you're listening, thank you for listening and we're really sorry.
So early sea travelers were, when they would come close
to this island, they were frightened
by the calls of the Cahow birds and the squeals of wild pigs
that they could be heard on shore, which, I mean,
that sounds really cute.
But if you didn't know what that was,
that would actually be scary.
Yeah.
It kind of just sounds like someone's screaming.
Screaming.
Yeah.
Which, I mean, I would not.
They're like, get away from here.
And meanwhile, it's just like these cute little pigs running
around.
The pigs are like, plant logs are playing.
Get away from here.
So perhaps the most fascinating things
about these tales that were told by sailors
were these treacherous reefs that were surrounding the island.
And so this island had such a mystical reputation.
It was even immortalized in Shakespeare's The Tempest, which
that was the very first play I saw at the Shakespeare
Festival, which was actually last October.
I saw The Tempest and it was amazing.
And I went with a friend who knows so much about Shakespeare
and I know so little about Shakespeare.
But what I thought was funny and sad
is that the main island dweller that they see,
oh my gosh, Roman, I'm so sorry, his name was Caliban.
I could have like culligan water.
No, his name was Caliban.
And he was a monster.
And that's what was sad is like they basically
were like, this island is full of creepy people.
And it's just Caliban.
I am so sorry to interrupt, but I also, The Tempest
was the first play I saw.
What?
We're samers.
But it was put on by children in Corvallis.
That actually sounds great.
I know.
I was like, I'm in second grade.
One of my classmates is acting in this play The Tempest.
I don't know what's happening.
Which, I mean, that has adult themes in it.
I don't know.
Yeah, because Caliban is once accused of sexual assault.
So just throwing that out there, second graders,
what are you doing?
They're like, we don't know.
We don't know, actually.
So in The Tempest, this mysterious island
is called the still vexed Bermuths,
which it's almost like Bermuths is that where
the term Bermuda came from?
Or is it just like a play on the word Bermuda?
Probably not.
I should have looked that up.
I'm really sorry.
I just thought that was so interesting because, I mean,
that was so long ago.
But of course, people are traveling the ocean.
And Bermuda is in between.
If you're coming down, it's in between coming from England,
going to the Carolinas or something like that,
or that part of the world.
And so you're going to run into it.
And it might seem like this place is magical.
So who knows?
So the earliest origin of this myth
can be stretched far back as Columbus.
And I wrote Columbus, also known as the worst person ever.
He noted in his log book of haywire compasses
seeing strange lights and even bursts of flame
falling into the sea.
Columbus, as well as other semen after him,
also encountered a harrowing stretch of ocean known
as the Sargasso Sea, which is an area of the ocean between Bermuda
and the Caribbean, which is below Bermuda,
known for its windless waters that are actually
the result of ocean currents sweeping
through the North Atlantic.
They thought it was paranormal activity.
It actually was just wind.
But there was no wind.
That was the part that was creepy to them.
Oh, OK.
I'm sorry.
I'm like, my brain is interpreting what you said.
You're like, yeah, that's how wind works.
I'm like, this is how the wind is not working.
So for example, this area is really
known for ships and aircraft going missing.
But everything kind of disappears without a trace.
I mean, yeah, things will show up.
But there is usually no wreckage, no bodies.
It's just they're gone.
And that's what's creepy about this area
is this windless calm water, it's like there's no reason
to even send a distress signal.
And then they're gone.
That's creepy.
Yeah.
So for example, aircraft will report to towers.
Like they're in communication, and then they'll vanish.
Rescuit missions are said to have vanished,
while even looking for the ones that have just vanished.
Yeah.
And past wreckage is usually not found,
which is creepy.
But many attribute it to supernatural.
Actually, it's geophysical and environmental factors.
And the fact that the ocean is constantly moving,
so it's like stuff will be one way,
and then it just like, whoop, goes somewhere else.
Oh, man, I wish people could see your hand gestures.
The ocean is like, whoo-hoo.
OK.
So this is going to be, there's a lot of different stories
that I could talk about.
I'm going to talk about one in particular.
And this is called Flight 19.
And this is a designation of a group
of five Avenger torpedo bombers that disappeared
over the Bermuda Triangle on December 5, 1945.
So they lost contact with the United States Navy
during a navigation training flight from Fort Lauderdale,
Florida.
And they were, I believe that they were going south,
but they did not end up going south.
There were 14 airmen on this flight that were lost,
as well as the 13 crew members of the flying boat that
was launched to search for the first crew that went missing.
So 27 people missing.
A report by Navy investigators conclude
that the flight leader, Charles C. Taylor,
mistook small islands offshore for the Florida Keys,
because he was hoping he was going south.
But his compass stopped working.
So the flight heading over, they went into open sea instead
of land.
Yeah.
And the report was later amended by the Navy
to read that the real cause was unknown,
because they wanted to avoid blaming Charles Taylor for the
loss of five aircraft and the 15 men in his charge.
So the flight that went after them,
they concluded that perhaps it exploded midair.
But they really don't know.
That was just their best guess.
So Charles Taylor is experiencing a compass error.
He thought he was near Bahamas or the Key West.
And he wasn't even sure what direction
he was facing in the open water, which is actually really scary.
The control tower informed him that he is not even near Key West,
because the wind is not blowing that way.
But some of the crew men with him were saying, oh,
my compass is working.
So he based his next route on their compass.
But he panicked.
So he ended up going the right direction.
He panicked.
They turned around.
And the best guess the Navy has is
that they ran out of fuel and just crashed into the ocean,
which is like so terrible.
I couldn't even imagine the panic of like, I'm not seeing land.
I have 14 men with me.
What do I do?
Yeah.
And then your plane just runs.
Yeah.
And there you go.
So the wreckage has never been found.
This is 1945.
In 1986, there was Bermuda doing it.
That was creepy.
All of a sudden, Bermuda just like Google Earth just
zoomed in on Bermuda.
Bermuda was like, are you talking about me?
Are you talking about me?
I'm just going to close that.
Yeah.
Put that away.
OK, so in 1986, the wreckage of an Avenger
was found off the coast of Florida
during a search for the Space Shuttle Challenger.
And an aviation archaeologist raised this wreck
from the ocean floor in 1990.
So they didn't even pick it up in 1986.
They did it four years later.
And it was not one of the missing planes.
Oh, sad.
Yeah.
A different wrecked plane was found in 1991 by a treasure
hunter.
His name was Graham Hawks.
And he found it off the coast of Florida.
But eventually, it was concluded to be a wrecked plane
from 1943, which was two years prior, which I'm like,
this place is just full of wreckage, unfortunately.
But also, I love that there's just
like a treasure hunter that's like,
I bet there's a bunch of stuff I could find here.
Right?
What a cool job.
He's like, my profession is actually treasure hunter.
In March 2012, Graham Hawks was reported saying
that it suited him, his investors, and the Pentagon.
Yes, that Pentagon to make this story go away
because it was expensive and time consuming.
But there was never any conclusive evidence.
I also wrote in here, please don't come for me Pentagon.
I'm just I'm just discovering your.
I'm just like, I'm writing when I'm reading.
Yeah.
Anyway, so still, I mean, the last time it was like discussed
was in 2015, it was still reported
that no wreckage had been found.
And this is because a lot of people
don't want the simple answer of human error or a compass
failing.
So a lot of times people will attribute something mysterious
to these disappearances, especially this particular one,
Flight 19.
In fact, it was featured in the 1977 science fiction film
Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
Such a good movie.
In the film's opening, the aircraft
are discovered in the Sonoran Desert in pristine condition
with full fuel tanks, which I did not remember that part.
And then at the film's ending, the crew of Flight 19
returns to Earth in the alien mothership.
And they're the same age as their disappearance, which
it's like, oh, yeah.
So I mean, people really knew about this Flight 19.
Spielberg's like, yeah.
He's really good at his research.
I'll tell you that.
OK, so one hypothesis for this disappearance
is that so pilots fail to account for the agonic line, which
is a line where there's no need to compensate for magnetic
compass variation.
And there are parts of the Earth where your compass is just
going to go wonky.
And so as they approach the Bermuda Triangle,
there's a navigational error, and their compass is not working.
So another popular theory is that the missing vessels
were felled by a so-called rogue wave, which
sounds a little made up.
But actually, it's a real thing.
It's a massive wave that can reach up to 100 feet in the air.
So if it's a plane that's doing a training mission,
they're not going to be that high up.
And it's powerful enough to destroy
any evidence of a ship or an airplane.
Oh, that's terrifying.
Yeah.
And the Bermuda Triangle is located, obviously,
in an area of the Atlantic Ocean that
is known for hurricanes.
It's plagued constantly with storms.
And it's almost like it's like a hurricane alley.
The area is just scary.
So according to National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration, they said, quote,
there is no evidence that mysterious disappearances
occur with any greater frequency in the Bermuda Triangle
than any other large, well-traveled area of the ocean.
End quote.
So boaters and flyers, they continue
to venture through this triangle without event.
I mean, people go through it all the time.
And the ocean is terrifyingly still untouched.
And so much of it is actually, what's the word?
I don't know.
What, when you're exploring?
Explored.
Ha ha ha ha.
So much of it is unexplored.
I think there's the statistic of how much space
from outside of Earth has been explored versus the ocean.
The ocean is on Earth.
And the ocean is still like, you don't know me.
I'm crazy.
The ocean is beautiful, but terrifying.
Yes.
Yeah.
She is a cruel mistress.
She is.
So another scientific theory suggests
large deposits of methane gas spewing up from the ocean floor.
And this happens within the triangles borders.
These huge eruptions of methane bubbles
push water away from a ship, which causes it to sink.
It's highly flammable, so it can rise into the air,
igniting a plane's engine, causing it to explode,
and then just, it's gone.
And yes.
And I don't know if you're thinking the same thing.
I was thinking when I was reading this, but yes.
There was an article I saw that was titled Ocean Farts.
The Truth Behind the Mystery of the Bermuda Triangle.
That's hilarious.
Yeah.
I mean, that's literally what it is.
And it's a real thing.
For example, this has been tested.
Laboratory experiments carried out in Australia
have proven that bubbles can indeed sink a scale model
of a ship by decreasing the density of the water.
And then any wreckage consequently
would rise to the surface and then just be rapidly dispersed
by a Gulf Stream.
So it's just kind of like gone and then goodbye.
Goodbye.
And it also has been hypothesized
that there is methane eruptions in addition to the gas.
So there's some time called mud volcanoes, which I'm like,
OK.
I know where this is going.
The ocean has the runs.
Yeah, it's like never trust a methane bubble.
You don't know where it's going to.
Yeah.
Anyway, I'm like, the ocean is just like us.
It also can't drink ocean water from Sonic.
Oh, no.
But anyway, so these mud volcanoes produce frothy water
that reduce the buoyancy in the water.
So it's like a ship can literally just go down
without warning, which is actually really scary.
It is really scary.
Because it just be like, yeah, yeah.
It's kind of like the consistency or the chem,
like who knows what?
I'm not a scientist.
But the water is just like goodbye.
So last but not least, so when googling the Bermuda Triangle,
you will see that it has, you can leave a review for it.
Like it's on Google, it's a Google review.
It has one single star, single star.
It has one single five star review.
Someone out there left a five star review for the Bermuda
Triangle.
Oh my gosh.
All it says is dangerous location.
Like that it's like dangerous location, five stars.
Five stars would go again.
Would go again.
I'm like, whoever that guy was, I like him.
So all in all, this legend of the Bermuda Triangle
is pretty much a manufactured mystery.
It's an area that has been journeyed through so many times,
but it's just like the earth is crazy
and you are seeing it happen.
It's just proof of that.
Writers have either purposely or unknowingly
made use of these misconceptions creating
fictitious lies, faulty reasoning, lots of sensationalism.
And of course, it's just fun to imagine
that it could be something other than methane gas.
We all want that.
So last but not least, I will end it with a 2013 study,
the World Wide Fund for Nature.
They identified the world's 10 most dangerous waters
for shipping.
The Bermuda Triangle wasn't even on it.
Wow.
So that kind of gives you an idea of the ocean.
Do not mess with it.
Bermuda Triangle is like, please stop slandering me.
Please stop.
Yeah, like I'm good.
And that is it.
That is the story of the mysterious Bermuda Triangle.
That was so good.
I learned so much that I didn't know.
Yes, me too.
When I was doing the research, I was like,
ocean is crazy.
Also, I fully understand now why all of these folk tales
and stories came about from sailors
when sailing was a lot more common.
I mean, your ship just gets sucked down by the ocean.
Well, of course, you'd be like, oh, it's a sea monster.
Oh, yeah.
You wouldn't think.
Or it's the velocity of Atlantis drawing me down.
Not ocean parts.
Because it's like, yeah, back then,
so much of the ocean was undocumented or not mapped out.
They, I mean, stuff happens today where people will go missing
and were like, what happened to them?
The Malaysian flight.
And that happened 500 years ago.
Granted, they didn't have airplanes back then.
But it was equivalent.
The equivalent.
It's like, oh, they would be like, that was the devil.
The devil's in the ocean.
So it's like, yeah, there's so much out there that is,
it actually was something that made something disappear.
But it was not anything mythical.
It was just people just didn't understand.
They didn't understand.
And people still don't.
I still don't.
No.
But it is a crazy place.
I wouldn't mind going there.
I was telling my mom about it.
And she's like, well, you're not going to go there, are you?
Well, I can't guarantee it.
I know.
Like, well, I was like, there's nothing wrong with it.
And she's like, but it's dangerous.
And I'm like, you know what?
What I've learned, the ocean is dangerous.
Don't go near the ocean.
The ocean will mess you up.
Also.
But we love it.
I think we should just add pretty much every topic we do.
It's like our grand podcast road trip that we're planning.
Oh, yeah.
Or that would be a boat trip.
A boat trip.
It'll be all forms of plane strings.
Yeah, literally.
Like we're going to do our own murder on the Orient Express,
sans murder.
We hope.
We'll just be like, well, I'll be puoro.
And I would love to be puoro.
Right?
Oh, we'd have the cutest mustaches.
I know.
We'd be so amazing being Belgian.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, man.
David Souchet, though.
David Souchet.
Not a.
Kenneth Brown.
If you're listening, Kenneth Brown, we still love you.
But come on.
But also, we'll never forget what you did to Emma Thompson.
Oh, yeah.
Kenneth Brown, if you're listening.
I'll never forgive.
Yeah.
Kenneth Brown, if you're listening, we're really sorry about it.
But we'll never forgive you.
She's like, I don't even care anymore.
Yeah.
But she's, we got to protect Emma Thompson.
So yeah, she's the best.
She's the best.
And yeah, there we are.
We did it.
This is our third episode.
And I think we're getting better at it.
I think so too.
I think I said, um, less.
Oh, yeah.
That was the other thing.
I was thinking about my word whiskers.
And I hope I didn't say a bajillion different so's every word.
So.
So for anyone, I just did it.
For anyone who was thinking the first episode, wow,
they don't have any word whiskers.
That's not true.
My husband is just really good at editing.
Yeah.
He makes us so smart.
Yeah.
The first time I heard it, I was like, Roman is a genius.
He is.
I think he's the greatest producer known to at least this
household.
Yeah.
It's true.
Because I was like, this actually sounds great.
It does.
Yeah.
I mean, while he's like, I've been staring at this computer
for 37 hours.
He's like, if you say, um, one more time.
Oh, right.
Oh, yeah.
So, oh gosh, there it is again.
Yeah.
Anyway, word whiskers, they're hard to get away from.
They really are.
We'll work on it for you guys, though,
and for my husband's sanity.
Yes.
Although I'm going to try my hand at editing.
He's going to teach me how to edit.
That would be great.
I should also learn.
I should contribute to this venture.
You are contributing.
I'm just driving.
That's what I do.
I drive to your house.
Hey, we are both doing the research.
You made a good social media post.
We had a funny meme.
I will be here for the memes.
I'll meme it up any time you want.
I know what I'm good for.
Do we have anything else before we sign off?
Don't, if you can help it, if you can help it.
Don't climb into water towers.
That is just a PSA.
Or drink California water.
Drink California water.
Don't go anywhere with Christopher Columbus.
And if anyone tries the elevator game,
let us know if you went to a different dimension.
And if you are you stuck in that dimension,
you can't tell us, we're really sorry.
Yeah.
And if the Red Cross just ends up
being the flag to Switzerland, you are in a great place.
It just takes you to Switzerland.
Oh my gosh.
I'm like, sign me up.
Sounds nice.
Yeah, I don't think I have anything else.
So until next time, don't go gentle into that good night.
Oh, I don't know where that came from.
I like that.
And don't stay away from the devil's triangle.
And good night.
Stay away from the devil.
And the devil.
He's got bad news.
Good night.