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hand up

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one

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We in sync and sink.

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That was not fun.

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It's like in sync on another level.

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That was beautiful.

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But also, hello.

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I'm Drew.

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And I'm Olivia.

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And we are.

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Oddly curious.

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And thank you for joining us.

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And today is our 10th episode.

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Yay!

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Which it feels like

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I can't believe it's 10 episodes.

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I know.

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Because I feel like a lot of time has gone by.

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Yeah, but also.

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Not.

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I'm like, wow, already 10 episodes, but.

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Yeah, time is weird.

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Time is weird.

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Time doesn't exist.

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No.

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It's a construct.

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I mean, I think that's what they tell me.

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Who's they?

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I don't know.

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Don't ask.

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I haven't seen you in a while.

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I know it feels like a long time, which we keep saying that,

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but it's also like, I think it's just because I don't remember

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when I saw you last.

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They could have been not that long ago.

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I think in reality, it's only been a couple weeks.

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Yeah.

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But it just feels like it feels like a long time.

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Yeah.

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What's new with you?

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Let's see.

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What is new?

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Not really a whole lot.

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We've both seen Barbie.

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Oh my gosh.

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That's right.

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And since the last episode to now, Barbie came out and Barbie has

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barbied our lives.

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And I, my life was like already barbied, but it's like barbie

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times two.

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Yeah.

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It's what I've been waiting for my whole life.

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Yes.

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I will, I will say Olivia is more Barbie than I am in life,

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even though I did, I did like Barbie growing up and I had

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Barbies.

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I had a lot of what is called hand me down Barbies, which

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worked the fun ones because they were all from the 80s and they

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had fun 80s clothes.

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That is really cool.

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I think she hit her fashion peak in the 80s.

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Not that her fashion is bad now, but I'm like, there was

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something about 80s Barbies clothes that were just like so

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much valour and so much shiny and so many poofs.

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And her hair was so big.

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So big.

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Ugh.

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It was full of secrets.

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I just, and I loved, they had the most dramatic lives in my

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room.

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Ken was always cheating on her, but it wasn't like nobody, like

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because there wasn't many Barbies.

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So he was like cheating on her with some unknown named person.

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I'm like, I don't know why she was other.

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Ken other.

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Oh, probably.

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Probably.

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I mean, who knows.

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But, uh, yeah.

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So I think you are the Barbie in this world.

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That is so nice of you to say.

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But I mean, like that's what I think of.

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As, yeah.

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Thank you.

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Yeah.

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I escaped from Barbie land and now I regret it.

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I would too.

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I know.

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I don't know where I escaped from.

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That's someone that's like, that's a story from another time.

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Anything new with you?

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Let's see.

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I was like, that's great.

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I think that's the story.

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I just kind of want to go and say, again, I, I, I,

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I don't know if I'm going to be able to say that even though I

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don't have time because I don't remember time anymore.

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Oh, not this last week, but the week prior.

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Because of my job.

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I.

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Okay.

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I have, I move around a lot.

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Not like large distances, just locations.

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The bummer thing about working at the beach is that you see the beach all day.

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You're working nine hours, but then when you get off, you're like, oh, I'm tired.

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I don't want to do anything.

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You're like, there it is.

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There it is.

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But that was a, that was like a fun little highlight.

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It was almost like I got paid to be on vacation, but at the same time, it wasn't

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a vacation.

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Yeah.

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Which is because it's like, well, I can't really afford to vacation right now.

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Anyway.

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I know.

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So I'll just stare at the ocean and be like, okay, well, I'll go to bed early.

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Yeah.

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As far as I get on vacation is our pool, which is very nice.

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Very nice.

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I still need to come.

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I know.

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I have my blow up, uh, major cat beach ball, which I still need to bring.

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And then I don't know if I'll be able to blow it up and bring it over, but I have,

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um, a floaty lapras, which is the Pokemon.

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But it's the Pokemon that looks like the Loch Ness monster.

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It's fun to play on.

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So cute.

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That was a gift from one of my nice roommates.

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When we, uh, go to the pool, we like to, they have like a tiny little basketball

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hoop and you can shoot baskets in the pool.

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Oh, that would be fun.

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And the other day when one of your roommates came over and, uh, three of us went to the

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pool, we were playing horse, you know, like an elementary school.

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Was anyone a horse?

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Uh, yeah.

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I believe Ashley was the horse.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That makes sense.

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I don't know why.

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I don't know why either.

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When we were little, she would always beat me, but my husband has given me some basketball lessons.

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So it does help.

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All the credit goes to him.

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He gets basketball credit.

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Yeah.

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Do you have any, um, like podcasts or movie wrecks?

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My movie wreck is the Barbie movie, which I feel like that's everyone's.

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Yeah.

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What?

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And if it's not, then please don't talk to us.

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Oh, right.

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What did I?

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No, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Um, I did start listening to why can't we talk about Amanda's mom, which is a cold case

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that has so many wild twists and turns.

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And a lot of it has to do with the fact that, um, the mom was a sex worker and they just,

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they did not treat the case with respect, but the way she died was pretty terrible.

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And the, yeah, like major trigger warning.

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Yeah.

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So be careful.

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But it's handled really respectfully.

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And I haven't finished it.

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I haven't finished it yet because I was listening to it while I was working and then life.

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You recommended it to me and I finished the whole thing.

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You did?

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Oh, but the thing is I have had my brain.

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I'm like, spoiler alert.

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I got analysis of spoiler.

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I have ADHD.

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So like I will hear things and then six months later be like, that's what I wanted to listen

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to this one.

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And so then I'll start it and then I have so many podcasts that I'm in the middle of

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where I just need to go back to.

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Yeah.

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Plus I, my job allows me to listen to podcasts.

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So I have more time to.

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Right.

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You don't have to interact with people.

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Go through it, which is my favorite.

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And that's nice.

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I interact with so many people and you know how people can be.

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People be peopleing.

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They really do.

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And so I'm like, for instance, the last time I worked, I heard an older lady yell at

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the doctor, get away from me.

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I hate you, which to me was like, you know, respect to her.

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I'm sure we would all like to say that the doctor in question is actually wonderful.

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There's nothing to be alarmed with.

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I think it was just like, it was just like you're sitting there when you're in business

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and then you hear that screamed and you're just like, all right, so it's this kind of

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Friday.

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Yeah.

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I'm like, sometimes even if it's a nice doctor, if you don't want to go to the doctor,

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that's just how you feel.

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Yep.

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I have a podcast recommendation.

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I'm ready.

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I need to remember the name of it.

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So it's called believable.

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The Cocoa Berthman story.

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And it's a dear media podcast and definitely trigger warning for this podcast as well.

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But it's really interesting because this girl, she became an internet famous because she

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was sharing her story of surviving sex trafficking as a young child growing up in Germany.

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But like a lot of the things in her story just really don't make sense.

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Or they're like, no, super outlandish.

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And it's one of those things where it's like, probably there is some truth to it, but then

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because of mental illness or trauma, she's just like really what am I trying to say?

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Embellished.

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Embellished.

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Thank you.

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Embellished it.

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So it's a, oh my gosh, I'm losing words today.

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A journalist that is looking into the podcast and she's like trying to interview Cocoa.

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I don't think they've gotten to interview Cocoa yet, but interviewed Cocoa's mom and

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like some people that have known her.

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And she definitely is at some aspects a scammer, but it's just like how much of it is a scam

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and how much isn't.

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So anyway, it's really interesting.

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It's a reminiscent of like the million little pieces book that came out.

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Yes.

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Where it's like, this is a harrowing story and then, oh, it's probably not all true.

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Yeah.

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So that one's really interesting.

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Sounds good.

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And then I'm, I'm such a dork because you have been watching Murder, She Wrote, which

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is great.

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And apparently there are several Murder, She Wrote podcasts.

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And oh my gosh, I have to start listening to that.

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I'm listening to one called Cabot Cove Confidential.

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Oh, that's so cute.

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It's really cute because it's a married couple that is doing it together.

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And I just think they're like a super cute couple anyway, but the wife was already

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like really into Murder, She Wrote and has like watched the whole series through, but

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now they're both going back and watching it and like doing recaps and ratings of

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each episode.

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And it's just delightful.

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I love that.

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Yeah.

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So that I need it.

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I need to start that because I also haven't watched Murder, She Wrote in a while, but

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there was a time like, especially during the pandemic, I was like, oh, she's making

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me feel so safe.

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I know.

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I was just trying to help that.

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With my father-in-law because we both like Murder, She Wrote.

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Well, he does.

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Oh, that makes me like him even more.

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And we're like, Angela Mansberry is just so comforting.

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Yeah.

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She, she was a national treasure.

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I know.

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She still is.

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She still is in our hearts.

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She's like British Betty White.

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She really is.

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Yeah.

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RIP.

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RIP.

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I'm trying to think of if there was another, some, I feel like there's something that I

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was listening to on the tip of my tongue that I just can't even think.

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I'll probably think of it for next time.

264
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But I'm kind of like with TV shows, I will just watch something that is comforting.

265
00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,560
So then I will, I will re-listen to old podcasts.

266
00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:56,560
Oh, you too.

267
00:11:56,560 --> 00:11:57,560
Yes.

268
00:11:57,560 --> 00:12:00,000
We are the re-listeners.

269
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,000
AKA mentally ill.

270
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:04,000
Oh, yeah.

271
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,000
High five on that.

272
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:07,000
Okay.

273
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:16,000
So we are trying to do a new thing where we're going to try and have a theme each week for

274
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,000
the podcast.

275
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:24,000
Which I actually think is kind of fun because it'll help me stay on track with what I'm doing.

276
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,000
Me too.

277
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,000
Which I mean, yeah, it helps us.

278
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,000
But then it's kind of exciting because it's like, well, what did you do?

279
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,000
Find for this theme?

280
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,000
So episode 10.

281
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,000
Technically last week was last week.

282
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,000
It was two weeks ago.

283
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:46,000
Episode nine was the first theme for sharks.

284
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,000
This, this is like the first official we're theming.

285
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:51,000
Yeah.

286
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,000
We're like sharks.

287
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:57,000
Brought it to us with their old cuteness.

288
00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:01,000
Sharks are the gateway to themes.

289
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,000
Sharks are just the gateway to a lot of things.

290
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:04,000
Yeah.

291
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,000
But this week's theme is poison.

292
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,000
Yeah.

293
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,000
Not the band.

294
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,000
This episode is poison.

295
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,000
Oh, yeah.

296
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,000
What's a poison song?

297
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,000
Oh my gosh.

298
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,000
It's.

299
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,000
That's a British band.

300
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,000
Yeah.

301
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,000
I feel like the one I am thinking of is actually.

302
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,000
White Snake.

303
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,000
I was getting confused.

304
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,000
Someone's yelling at us and they're like.

305
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:35,000
Um, every rose has its thorn.

306
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,000
That's a poison one.

307
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:38,000
Yeah, I didn't know that.

308
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:39,000
I didn't know that either.

309
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,000
Oh, they're from Pennsylvania.

310
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,000
It's probably because white snakes from England.

311
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:48,000
I get all of those bands kind of become one where I'm like, even Motley crew.

312
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:49,000
I don't know them very well.

313
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,000
They just, if they have hair and spandex, they're all one band.

314
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:56,000
I forget, is it white snake or is it scorpion that has Sebastian Bach?

315
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:57,000
That's the other one.

316
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,000
I get kids like to be there all one band.

317
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,000
White scorpion poison.

318
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,000
I think I'm pretty sure it's.

319
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:05,000
Sebastian Bach.

320
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,000
Sebastian Bach.

321
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:07,000
Let's find out.

322
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:13,000
I like saw him first on Gilmore girls and then I found out afterwards that he was a rockstar.

323
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,000
White snake is from England.

324
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:15,000
Hold on.

325
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,000
Let's go to scorpion.

326
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:17,000
So he's probably scorpion.

327
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:18,000
Scorpion.

328
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,000
Yeah, cause he's American.

329
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:20,000
Yeah.

330
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,000
Yeah.

331
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,000
And he's like, Hey guys, what up with these British dudes?

332
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,000
Oh, Scorp.

333
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,000
It's scorpions.

334
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:28,000
What?

335
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:32,000
Why did I always think it was not either was singular?

336
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,000
Is this the Mandela effect?

337
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,000
It might be.

338
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,000
Yeah.

339
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,000
Rocky like a hurricane by scorpions.

340
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,000
I thought it was.

341
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:46,000
I apologize to the scorpion.

342
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,000
Well, they're from Germany.

343
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,000
Baca is a German last name.

344
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:52,000
Hold on.

345
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:58,000
I'm like, do you mean Johann Sebastian Bach, the composer?

346
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:02,000
We're like, I saw him on Gilmore girls.

347
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,000
It was so big.

348
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:05,000
Wow.

349
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:06,000
He's so tall.

350
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,000
He was born in the Bahamas.

351
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,000
He's six three.

352
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:14,000
He has fabulous hair and.

353
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,000
Guess what band he's in.

354
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,000
Skid Row.

355
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,000
That's another one.

356
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:28,000
So every rose has its thorn.

357
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:34,000
And we every podcast has its Skid Row mess ups and scorpions.

358
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,000
We started so on track.

359
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,000
And then we got to Sebastian.

360
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,000
Okay.

361
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:47,000
Is that his real name or was he just really into the classic?

362
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,000
Did his parents just give him the raddest name ever?

363
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:51,000
Oh, no.

364
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,000
His name is Sebastian Philip.

365
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,000
Birk.

366
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,000
His stage name is Sebastian Bach because he's like.

367
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,000
Ayo, gotta get that.

368
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:07,000
Got to get that big hair and wearing a cravat.

369
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,000
I don't know.

370
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:13,000
It's really funny because like I can imagine his voice in my head so well.

371
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:18,000
So imagine him saying that is really funny.

372
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,000
So anyway, back to poison.

373
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,000
Yes.

374
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:22,000
This is a poison episode.

375
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:23,000
Yep.

376
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:24,000
And I go first.

377
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:25,000
Yes.

378
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,000
And are we ready for this?

379
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,000
Y'all ready for this?

380
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:28,000
Are we ready?

381
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,000
I mean, are we ready?

382
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,000
Okay.

383
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,000
I'm sorry.

384
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,000
Okay.

385
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,000
So today, Olivia, I have for you.

386
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,720
I'm going to be talking about the

387
00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:43,000
Shiels Green also known as the deadly Victorian arsenic dresses.

388
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:48,000
And then parentheses dresses and beyond.

389
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,000
My resources are the Paris review.

390
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:58,000
Article called Shiels green, the color of fake foliage and death.

391
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,000
By Katie Kelleher.

392
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,000
An article from medium called looks that kill.

393
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:09,000
Shiels green, the prettiest shade of arsenic by Ashley Nicole Hunter.

394
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:10,000
Arracked.

395
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:11,000
Calm.

396
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,000
Dot.

397
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,000
Calm.

398
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,000
Calm.

399
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,000
Wow.

400
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:16,000
Got a little bit Australian.

401
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:17,000
Dot.

402
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:18,000
Car.

403
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:24,000
Article, the history of green dye is a history of death by Jennifer right.

404
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:28,000
And of course, Wikipedia.

405
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,000
Okay.

406
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:34,000
So I'm going to be talking about the fact that I'm a Victorian.

407
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:35,000
The mid 1800s.

408
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,000
In Victorian era Europe.

409
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:39,000
It's like my favorite time.

410
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:40,000
Right.

411
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:41,000
It is.

412
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:49,000
Well, I mean, it is really lovely, but there are so many.

413
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,000
I should say my favorite time to read about read about like we don't

414
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,000
want to visit.

415
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,000
No, I don't want to be there.

416
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,000
No, the more I read about Victorian England, the more I'm like,

417
00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,000
I'm a Victorian era.

418
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:04,000
And we are also in the industrial revolution.

419
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,000
And because of this, many people are enjoying its prosperity,

420
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:15,000
but due to the same fact, there is a less enjoyable.

421
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,000
I guess.

422
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:18,000
What's the word?

423
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,000
Wow, I'm starting off real strong.

424
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,000
Like a cause and effect.

425
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:27,000
This is good for people having, you know, more jobs, more money.

426
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,000
And wherever people are watching their green fields and clean air

427
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,000
get replaced by factories, smog and grime.

428
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,000
Capitalism.

429
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,000
Yeah, there we go.

430
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,000
And this is a time when Londoners and Parisians alike were

431
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:45,000
concerned that their streets had turned gray with pollution.

432
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:49,000
And gas lighting had just been invented and became our common

433
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,000
place.

434
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:55,000
So they could not hide the fact that their grimy scenery was all

435
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,560
around them with dim candle lighting. It was kind of like, well, if I can't see it, it's not there.

436
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,480
Now they have brighter lights even at night and they're like, man, this is such a bummer.

437
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:09,400
And that's gas lighting, the light fixture, not the trying to make someone think they're crazy.

438
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:14,520
Right. Actually, maybe both. Maybe. But probably just the light fixture.

439
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:21,160
So they would have to take note of the the travesty their landscape had become.

440
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:29,000
People became nostalgic for what they'd lost. They were nostalgic for toiling in the fields and

441
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:35,800
being at the countryside and women would be nostalgic for when men were men. Apparently they were

442
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:42,120
not as happy when men had white color jobs and would go to smoke and drink somewhere. And

443
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,880
they were just like, what happened to the old times? Turns out, every time in history,

444
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:53,480
someone's been like, I just feel like the past was better. It's kind of like the midnight in Paris

445
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:59,480
effect. And also probably the people who are like, oh, I miss when people worked in the fields.

446
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:05,240
Those people were not actually working in the fields. They miss it. Yeah. They're like, my hands

447
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,320
are grateful I'm not working in the fields, except they're now working in a factory. I don't know

448
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:17,560
what is better. However, because of this, they became interested in protecting green spaces.

449
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:22,520
So they now have urban landscapes. They have public parks, public gardens. So there was,

450
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:29,160
you know, something good coming out of this. However, parks were outside. And because of smog

451
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:35,800
and pollution, people wanted their outside inside. They wanted the vibrant green ferns on their

452
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:41,000
wallpaper. They wanted to wear emerald gowns. They wanted real or fake foliage on their hats.

453
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,160
They just really wanted the countryside in their homes and at their parties.

454
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:51,240
So they would wear, well, probably just women, wreaths of fragrant flowers. And then if, you

455
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:56,200
know, fresh flowers were out of season or of course they didn't last long and they were expensive,

456
00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:03,080
then reproductions would do. So fake flowers became all the rage. And then women would go out to

457
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:08,680
parties at night. And now that the rooms were considerably brighter, thanks to the new lighting,

458
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:14,840
they wanted to make sure they stood out so they would wear really boldly green dresses.

459
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:21,160
And then this green, people, you know, put it everywhere, wallpaper, carpeting. It was said,

460
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:25,400
especially Victorian Britain was quote, bathed in green.

461
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:32,600
Sounds pretty. Yeah, I know. And the pictures are actually really lovely. So it turns out green

462
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:38,280
is notoriously hard to get right with dyes. I did not know this. And when you do find a nice

463
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:46,040
shade, it tends to fade. So in addition to wallpapers and carpets, of course, it made its way

464
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:51,960
into human bodies like we talked about. And not just dresses, it was waistcoats, shoes, gloves,

465
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:59,320
and trousers. Empress Eugenie, the Empress of France, she was married to the Third Napoleon,

466
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:06,120
which was the nephew of the Napoleon we know. She was the notable it girl of her time,

467
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:13,240
in addition to Queen Victoria, of course, and she adored green. It was said that at one night at

468
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:20,920
the Paris Opera, she wore a gown so breathtaking, it made newspaper headlines the very next morning.

469
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:27,640
It stated the dress was a spectacular deep set green with colors so vivid to remain unchanged

470
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:33,640
by gaslight. And she loved green because she thought it brought out the gold in her hair.

471
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:40,360
And the Paris Review articles said, quote, and even if that wasn't true, the gold dust she sprinkled

472
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:48,040
in her hairline certainly held. Wow, she is fashion. She is the moment. She is the moment. So can

473
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:54,840
you imagine being like, I want to be her, but she has good quality because she's literally an

474
00:22:54,840 --> 00:23:02,200
Empress. Yeah. So it's like actual gold. She owns several Colombian emerald necklaces, as well as

475
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:08,040
an amazingly extra emerald and diamond headpiece, which is known around the auction circuit as

476
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:15,000
the Donner's Mark tiara, which I looked it up. It is done. Yeah, you're going to be blown away.

477
00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:23,000
It's full of 500 carats of emeralds and the most expensive tiara to ever be sold at auction. It was

478
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:31,000
sold for 7.5 million pounds in 2011. I looked it up today. That would be 10.5 million pounds or

479
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:38,360
about 13.3 million USD for just a tiara. And it's when you see it, you're like, well, I get it.

480
00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:43,960
It's pretty stunning. Yeah. But we know how influence works. There are literally influencers

481
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:48,920
today. So she was, you know, pretty much an influencer. She couldn't help herself. People

482
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:55,400
look to rich and famous people to see how to dress, how to wear colors, what to eat. Of course,

483
00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:03,640
not everyone could afford such things, but we'll learn that this green, especially the dangerous

484
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:09,880
one, was affordable and it was pretty. And it made people happy. It made them think of a simpler time.

485
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:15,800
So if it gave you a rash or an oozing sore, I mean, it's Victorian England. What wasn't going to give

486
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:26,440
you a rash or an oozing sore? Exactly. So this green, particularly in 1775, was invented by

487
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:33,240
Carl Wilhelm Schiel, a Swedish-German pharmaceutical chemist. The color was made through the process

488
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:39,160
of heating sodium carbonate, adding in arseneus oxide and then stirring until the mixture was

489
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:46,040
dissolved, then adding copper sulfate to the final solution. Schiel invented this green almost

490
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:51,240
accidentally, but he was thrilled when he discovered the bright hue that he could name after

491
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:57,800
himself, no less. But it did trouble him as the color, when it went to production, he told a friend

492
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:05,160
he thought people would want to know about the poisonous nature. However, he marketed it anyway.

493
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:18,360
He's like, you know, he's like, but they might want to know. Which ironically, the color green, I mean, not back then.

494
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:27,080
It's probably just, I think the US's money is only green. Okay. So despite the character flaws,

495
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:33,960
this green was so striking and profitable. It was not only cheap to produce, but it

496
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:39,800
mimicked hues found in nature. It wasn't too yellow. It wasn't too teal. It was a middle green with full

497
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:46,840
saturation, no gray tints, no underlying hint of brown. It was called a vegetal green, the color

498
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:53,240
of fiddleheads and ivy vines. It was a garden color for city dwellers. And this allure of green

499
00:25:53,240 --> 00:26:01,720
was impossible to resist. I, right, yeah, and I think we are both green. I want to learn. So when I

500
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:07,080
saw the color, like when you see pictures, I would have been like, yes, I would have succumbed to that

501
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:12,280
green. I'm like, I want it now. And I know it's definitely, what's a little rash? I'm like, I want

502
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:17,160
it now. I know it's definitely what's a little rash. No, I'm like, wait, it's beyond the rash. You'll find out.

503
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:25,640
Another green that came on the scene was emerald green, which was also a combination of copper

504
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:32,040
and arsenic. It was described as being the most vibrant of colors. And this was invented by George

505
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:41,000
Field and produced by the Wilhelm Sattler Company in 1814 in Germany. Another name for this was

506
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:48,280
Schweinfurt green or Paris green. And it was created to be an improved version of Schiels green. It was

507
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:56,600
bluer and it was described to look like an actual jewel emerald. And this successor to the green

508
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:06,680
was more stable and durable. But it is still full of arsenic. It was also more opaque and durable than

509
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,320
any other color on the market. So of course, people wanted it because it's not going to fade. So of

510
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:18,520
course, house paints, carpets, clothes, printer inks, shoes, hair accessories, and artificial flowers.

511
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:23,960
It was used in detailing and patterning and wallpaper. It became so fashionable to deck your

512
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:29,160
parlor or drawing room with scenes of stylized strawberry vines and blousey headed green tulips.

513
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,600
And it was apparent that if you could afford it, any and all houses had a form of this green in

514
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:45,160
their house. So it sounds nice, right? So the dust from cheaply made wallpaper prints would flake

515
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:51,960
off making arsenic particles float in the air. The arsenic fumes would emit from the production

516
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:59,240
of the arsenic would release into the air under warm and humid wall or sorry, warm and humid conditions.

517
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:04,760
It started to be known that children and the frail would die in green pattern rooms by rubbing

518
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:11,240
against the walls or playing on the carpet. Small animals locked in arsenic green painted rooms would

519
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:17,480
be covered in pustules. There were multiple effects of prolonged arsenic poisonings that would happen

520
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:24,360
in polluted environments, such as cardiovascular disease, skin hyperpigmentation, keratosis,

521
00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:33,640
neurological problems and developmental disorders. People would also have arsenic ulcers in

522
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:41,400
contacted areas. I do not recommend looking at those pictures at work because I did a little bit

523
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:48,520
of research at work and there were very detailed pictures of genitals from doctors' notebooks

524
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:53,000
at the time. Like they were an actual medical journal, but it was like if anyone sees this,

525
00:28:53,000 --> 00:29:00,920
they're going to be like, can I talk to you in the back? Yeah, I'm like, yeah. I'm like, how do I

526
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:07,480
talk my way out of this? So in addition to that, there was reddish and peeling skin happening on

527
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:14,840
thin, unprotected skin like lips and nostrils. And then in addition to that, people would suffer from

528
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:24,680
nausea, colic, anemia, chest complaints, fatigue and headaches. Right. Yeah. I'm like, have you

529
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:29,720
checked yourself? I'm like, I'm like, me on a regular day. And then of course the muslin ball gowns

530
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:37,160
that were very fashionable in this Victorian era. The green dye on these dresses were loosely

531
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:42,680
dusted with powder, which would flake off and become airborne, especially while dancing. And it

532
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:50,200
was said of women at the time, quote, she actually carries in her skirts poison enough to slay the

533
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:59,560
whole of the admirers she may meet within a half a dozen ballrooms and quote, very metal. Yeah.

534
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:07,320
But of course we can chalk it up to many not knowing the toxicity of arsenic compounds at the

535
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:14,200
time, which is true. However, they have found 19th century journals containing reports of children

536
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:21,640
wasting away in bright green rooms. Ladies in green dresses, swooning and of newspaper printers

537
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:27,320
being overcome by arsenic vapors. And then an example of acute poisoning of children attending

538
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:36,520
a Christmas party where dyed candles were burned. But at the time, it was also as ubiquitous as

539
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:44,600
plastic. So despite all of these symptoms, it was so common to find it everywhere because they

540
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:50,200
weren't really sure where the symptoms were coming from. So it was also in candy, paper,

541
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:56,360
toys and medicine. So using it as clothing and accessory dye was very normal. It was like, we

542
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:02,280
have no idea why this is happening. But please, you know, eat this candy. Right.

543
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:10,280
It was said that some European countries had acknowledged the dangers associated with this

544
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:17,400
color well before it reached the craze in England. But by the time well before Britain found out about

545
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:27,320
it, they ignored it because it made so much money. One example actually in Paris in 1859,

546
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:35,240
Dr. Ange Gabrielle Maxime Virenois, a physician whom Napoleon himself would consult, was visiting

547
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:41,480
a flower making workshop that suffered from a fatally ill staff. He noted that many of the male

548
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:47,320
workers had ulcerations on their green hands, yellow nails and crater-like scars on their legs.

549
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:55,880
Female workers had poor appetites, constant headaches and an anemic pallor. He watched them work

550
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:01,640
and made the connection between their ailments and the green dye. He observed that men tasked with

551
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:07,640
coloring the fabrics used for the flowers would apply green dyes directly onto the cloth using

552
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:13,000
their bare forearms. And they often would have open wounds from the nails that held the cloth in

553
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:20,520
place. So open wound wasn't necessarily from the dye, but it was getting right into their bloodstream

554
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:26,040
because of those cuts. Women on the other hand would take the cloth and shape it into accessories

555
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:33,240
usually with their bare hands. Later studies would conclude that less than one eighth of a teaspoon,

556
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:39,880
one eighth of a teaspoon, which is so tiny, of this paint was a fatal dose and these workers were

557
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:49,720
working with it daily in gallons. After Virenois reported these findings, the French and German

558
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:55,480
governments passed laws that restricted the production of arsenic-based pigment, but these

559
00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:03,000
again largely ignored by the British government. Another example was a girl in London. Her name

560
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:09,800
was Matilda Schur, a 19-year-old woman who applied the arsenic green dye to fake flowers.

561
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:21,080
In 1861, she started to complain of nausea. She started to grow up, grow up, well,

562
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:29,800
grow up green water. The whites of her eyes turned green. Her nose, mouth, and eyes started to foam.

563
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:35,480
And when she died, she claimed everything she looked at was green.

564
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:42,360
When people began investigating the workshops, such as the one she worked in, they found other

565
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:49,160
women with similar distress, like one who had kept on working with green to her face was one mass of

566
00:33:49,160 --> 00:34:00,520
sores. Yeah, it's just the visual alone. I feel so awful for them. In 1862, physician Thomas Orton

567
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:06,280
was called in by a couple by the name of Turner to investigate the mysterious illness that had

568
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:11,080
killed three of their children and threaten the life of their remaining daughter. Earlier, doctors

569
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:18,440
concluded that the children had suffered from diphtheria because their symptoms were very similar.

570
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,920
However, Orton noted that none of the family's neighbors had caught the disease,

571
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:27,640
leading to suspect another cause, the green wallpaper that covered the walls of their home.

572
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:33,480
It had long been a rumor in the medical community that arsenic in the paints might be released under

573
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:40,520
air in certain conditions, creating a poisonous atmosphere. So of course, Dr. Orton believed

574
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:47,800
this to be the case. He unfortunately was unable to save their daughter's life. And he immediately

575
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:55,640
asked to conduct an autopsy on her body. He was able to get a test sample of her tissue and

576
00:34:55,640 --> 00:35:00,040
determine that the cause of death was indeed arsenic poisoning. At the inquest, however,

577
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:06,200
the presiding judge found his findings, quote, objectionable, and quote, leading the jury to

578
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:11,240
rule the child's death as a result of natural causes, because you know, children just die naturally.

579
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:12,520
Don't know why, but.

580
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:19,640
Yeah, that don't know why, but just sweet past away. Get rid of it.

581
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:31,400
In 1871, one lady purchased a box of green colored gloves at a well known and respectable house

582
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,400
and was horrified to find her hands broke out in blisters after putting them on.

583
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:41,560
Unless the dye was sealed, sweaty palms would cause the dye to run into the wearer's skin.

584
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:51,640
At the same time, a foreign dignitary staying with Queen Victoria told her that the wallpaper

585
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:59,720
in his room started to make him ill. And further inspection, they noticed a mouse like odor was

586
00:35:59,720 --> 00:36:05,960
being produced from the wallpaper. Mouse like odor was being realized out of the wallpaper.

587
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:12,440
Yeah, but he was probably from a country where he realized that was the wall band. And what's gross

588
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:18,920
is that I looked into the mouse like odor and it was like rat catchers. Could there was like a

589
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:26,280
certain smell of like it's smell rodents. And it's like when your wallpaper smells like dirty rodents.

590
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:34,520
It's time to get rid of your wallpaper. So Queen Victoria, instead of being incensed by

591
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:43,400
having her decor blamed, she was quick to have the wallpaper removed. And it was said ironically,

592
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:48,360
when people such like this foreign dignitary, when they would complain about being sick,

593
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:52,840
usually they were put to bed in those very spaces where the arsenic would have ultimately killed

594
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:59,640
them. Like, I'm so sorry, you don't feel good, you should go to bed. You'll never wake up.

595
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:08,200
Yeah, despite this, especially in England, arsenic was everywhere. Bakers used arsenic

596
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:16,200
green as food coloring and restaurants would add it to their drinks. There was even a deadly

597
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:22,600
Bradford sweets poisoning in 1858 when 21 people perished from arsenic laced hard candies.

598
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:29,320
And then 10 years later, UK legislators finally set limits on acceptable amount of

599
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:35,160
arsenic and food. The acceptable amount is no amount. They're like, you know, just a little.

600
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:42,200
Although there were shades of blue and yellow made for the same process that included arsenic,

601
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,840
those dyes did not get quite the same bad rap as the shields green and the Paris green.

602
00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:51,560
It seemed like green was always the culprit because it was so desirable at the time.

603
00:37:51,560 --> 00:38:01,240
Yeah, I was gonna say, because it was everywhere. There was a movement to stop

604
00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:08,280
sales of arsenic dyed dresses at least by women. So female activists and wealthy women wearing

605
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:14,040
these garments called for research, regulations and restrictions on these products. Finally,

606
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:18,120
in England, bills were passed to regulate the number of deadly chemicals that could be sold to

607
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:25,240
a person with the control of poisons bill and the arsenic act as it was finally classified as an

608
00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:33,880
irritant poison by the 19th century, but it had gone on too long. The production cost of

609
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:38,920
polluting the environment as well as physical medical problems, stricken workers and their

610
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:43,880
consumers who were in contact with the dye were finally the reason the dye fell out of fashion.

611
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:52,520
The popularity of this type of green started to end in the 1800s. For example, countries such as

612
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:59,640
Prussia prohibited sales of arsenic colored pigments by the 1830s and then finally,

613
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:07,640
Bavaria and France, they prohibited sales as well by 1845. In England and the United States,

614
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:15,160
they banned the dye much later because they regulated free enterprises. Then by 1880,

615
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:22,600
home decor was finally discontinued using arsenic greens for their wallpaper collections.

616
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:31,640
It was funny, they mentioned how eventually this green fell out of fashion much like the

617
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:40,760
avocado green from the 70s in America. Now, Schiels green feels a little bit like a relic of the time.

618
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:46,760
While women continued to wear flowers in their hats, the flower making industry never quite

619
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:53,240
recovered. Not only did the demand for fake flowers fall out of fashion, but reforms of the

620
00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:58,840
20th century made it more difficult for flower makers to turn a profit because many of them

621
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:04,280
relied on child labor because of their dexterous little hands, which is very sad.

622
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:12,440
Then following World War I, women's clothing became much more streamlined and the elaborate

623
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,120
decorations of the late Victorian period were seen as fussy and old-fashioned.

624
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:27,960
Because there were, of course, ingredients in Paris Green that were used for killing

625
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:36,120
little animals like rodents and things, that's pretty much what it became.

626
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:45,720
By the early 1900s, Paris Green was blended with lead arsenate to kill rodents in Parisian

627
00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:52,440
sewers. And also, it was noted that the mixture could burn trees and grass when it touched it.

628
00:40:52,440 --> 00:41:01,240
So that was like, oh, I know. Paris Green was also repurposed to kill flies and mosquitoes due to

629
00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:06,680
the risk of malaria. And there were large amounts given to farmers and soldiers to spray on puddles

630
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:13,400
and other types of still open water during the First World War. During World War II, Disney

631
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:18,440
released a wartime video explaining the effects of malaria to the lonely farmer and to use Paris

632
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:24,920
Green spray to kill flies and prevent illnesses from infections and diseases. The short was called

633
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:39,160
the winged scourge. And this is from 1943. This worked for a while, but eventually,

634
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:45,560
thankfully, environmentally safer insecticides became more effective in commonplace. Still,

635
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:51,480
this discontinued Paris Green was used in small quantities in developing countries,

636
00:41:51,480 --> 00:42:00,360
which is sad because the last thing they need is arsenic. So by the end of the 19th century,

637
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:06,920
most of the arsenic greens were replaced with different colors used with just copper carbonate,

638
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:17,160
which were still strong colors, but less deadly. Popular culture showed, for example, evil alien

639
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:23,800
attacks leaving behind a toxic sludge, which looks similar to emerald green paint. The fear of green

640
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:30,440
still has its vestiges in modern media. Green is seen as the color of malice. It's seen on the skin

641
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:37,560
in clothes of movie antagonists. Some theorize that the use of green to denote poison in cartoons

642
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:45,160
was directly influenced by arsenic green. It was only during the 1980s and 90s that green started

643
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:52,360
to be seen again as a favorable color, which is because of an environmental movement, which was

644
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:59,960
ironic because it symbolizes life. And then in the 2005 documentary, the signe Chanel shares their

645
00:42:59,960 --> 00:43:07,800
long-standing superstition of seamstresses don't like green. The fears of the color green came

646
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:16,520
from Coco Chanel's bad experiences with the dye and the death that happened. And last but not least,

647
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:23,640
many people speculate that Napoleon might have died because of the green wallpaper in his house.

648
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:30,920
So he was defeated by the Duke of Wellington at the Battle of Waterloo in 1815. And then, of course,

649
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:37,160
as we know, he was sentenced to be exiled by the British crown to a small island called St. Helena.

650
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:45,160
And so St. Helena was this tiny island where he lived with just a few servants. And he stayed

651
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:52,120
there until his death. And the house was formally owned by the East India Company, but was renovated

652
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:59,880
for Napoleon's stay. And he loved the color shields green. So every room had it on its walls.

653
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:07,880
And the BBC Radio production in 1980 discussed the mystery with one of their listeners. They said

654
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:14,040
that they had an ancestor living on St. Helena, who had torn a piece of the wallpaper in Napoleon's

655
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:22,040
room as a souvenir. It had a small green floor deli designed with a lighter background. And when

656
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:28,520
the wallpaper was analyzed, it contained traces of shields green. His whole house was covered in

657
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:33,960
this wallpaper. His bedroom, kitchen, bathroom, all covered in the wallpaper. And it was his favorite

658
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:42,680
color. It was speculated that the humid air and warmer air would warm up his house,

659
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:51,320
making the arsenic lace room activated. Napoleon would have been breathing in arsenic-ridden air,

660
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:57,320
making him weaker. And when a lock of his hair was analyzed, it showed that he had traces of

661
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:04,040
arsenic in his body. It may have contributed to his other illnesses, adding to his fatality as he

662
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:13,640
died of stomach cancer at the age of 51. Right. Yeah. And it makes sense. I'm like, it probably was

663
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:20,840
the wallpaper. So otherwise, today, you can purchase books that are still colored this same

664
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,760
green that have traces of arsenic on the cover. And it's suggested that you wear gloves when

665
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:31,000
handling them. Otherwise, arsenic-based clothing, unless it's in a museum, they have all largely

666
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:38,600
been destroyed. And hopefully, nothing will happen like that again. And that is the story of

667
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:45,000
shields green slash Paris green slash deadly arsenic dresses of Victorian England.

668
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:59,000
Oh my gosh. It's so interesting. Yeah. And it was funny when you mentioned how green is used so

669
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:07,160
often to pick villains or poison. I remember seeing a post a long time ago that was how all

670
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:13,880
the D. villains always have greens surrounding them or green in their design. Oh yeah. Oh my

671
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:20,200
gosh. They're her little garden of people. They're all green and sickly looking.

672
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:33,800
Yeah. I'm trying to think the evil stepmother queen on Snow White when she dips the apple.

673
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:42,840
It's green. It's green. Yeah. Yeah. Like everyone be on the lookout. They're like, this is the color

674
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:50,680
of the green you see in old timey cartoons. It's funny because now I think green has definitely had

675
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:59,960
like a turnabout like it's like cottage core and pretty and people want it for like painting

676
00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:07,160
their bathrooms and their dental offices and the millennial dream. Oh man. That Wow. That was like

677
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:17,720
the millennial green couch. I never had one. Yeah. I never wanted it. It is very pretty. I think

678
00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:23,000
people get it because it's very pretty. That's very pretty. I think people will not show up so much

679
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:34,680
on velvet. Mm hmm. That makes sense. Yeah. Have you read any of the book? I think it's

680
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:42,280
no, but I've always wanted to dresses or looks that kill. No, but I know it's it's really interesting.

681
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:50,760
I heard the author be interviewed on. Oh, okay. What the podcast was, but it's nice.

682
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:55,240
Fashion history podcast and they talked about shields. Yeah. No, I want to listen to it.

683
00:47:55,240 --> 00:48:00,600
Interesting. I'll have to find the podcast. Yeah. So it's just like there's so much about history

684
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:07,240
that you don't realize this like has been touched by something else. I never thought Napoleon and

685
00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:13,000
shields green would have anything in common. Else. I never thought Napoleon. Well, we do now.

686
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:21,320
Right. Historians. Historians that have new like many. They're like degrees and years of experience.

687
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:28,360
They're like, um, yeah. And now we can annoy people with those parts. Yeah. Yeah. And now we can

688
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:35,720
annoy people with those parts. Yeah. Yes. Do you want to take a quick break before my topic?

689
00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:46,440
Yes. Okay. Three, two, one. Okay. Sounded good to me. My hands say differently. Out.

690
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:56,280
All right. So now it is my turn. Yes. And I will be telling you the story of Nanny Doss,

691
00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:06,520
aka the Giggling Granny, aka the original Black Widow. So, um, just a quick trigger warning for

692
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:16,840
child death and a little bit of essay, although I do not go into any detail. Okay. And my sources are

693
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:26,280
a Murderpedia article and all that's interesting article by William DeLong and then, uh, an

694
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:33,560
article about Nanny on AlabamaHeritage.com, which is where I got most of my information.

695
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:42,840
Good job, Alabama. Shout out to our Alabama listeners. Hey, Alabama. Okay. So Nanny was born

696
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:51,000
in Blue Mountain, Alabama as Nancy Hazel to James and Lou Hazel. She had one brother and three sisters

697
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:59,080
and her father was very controlling and he had quite a temper and Nanny and her mother and presumably

698
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:05,560
all the other children really hated him because of how controlling he was. She had an unhappy childhood

699
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:11,240
and she really struggled in school. She never learned to read very well because she didn't always go

700
00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:17,640
to school because her father would have her and her siblings work on the family farm. So they missed

701
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:24,120
a lot of schooling. Yeah. Well, nothing like some free child labor. Right. And when she was seven years

702
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:29,960
old, her and her family were taking a train to visit relatives in Southern Alabama. And when the

703
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:36,440
train stopped suddenly, Nanny hit her head on the metal bar on the seat in front of her. And for years

704
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:44,280
after she suffered from headaches and depression and later she attributed this and her mental

705
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:50,360
instability to the accident. So it sounds like she got a pretty good head injury and presumably it was

706
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:57,960
never looked at. Oh yeah. I guarantee he's like your head turns, get back to work. Keep plowing

707
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:04,280
that farm. Yeah. You're five years old. How old was she? I don't know. She was seven. Oh, okay.

708
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:11,320
But still that's still. And one of her favorite things to do as a child was reading her mother's

709
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:18,840
romance magazines. And she was a romantic and she liked to dream about her future and who she would

710
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:25,320
marry, which spoiler alert, quite a few people. Later she took to reading the Lonely Hearts column.

711
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:31,640
And it's so sad because she was quite a lonely child. And then it sounds like she was pretty

712
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:37,640
lonely adult too. So she was kind of in her own little fantasy world. And her and her sisters

713
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:43,560
were forbidden from wearing makeup or attractive clothing by their father. And he did this in

714
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:49,240
hopes of keeping them from being molested by men in town, which unfortunately did happen several

715
00:51:49,240 --> 00:51:55,640
times. Oh my. So it seems like one of the few circumstances where he actually was trying to be

716
00:51:55,640 --> 00:52:01,400
a good father and protect them. But unfortunately, it sounds like they lived in a pretty rough town.

717
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:07,240
Also, yeah, why is the town known for that? Right? Why is no one's looking into that?

718
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:13,640
Apparently not. Oh my gosh. And he also forbade them from going to dances or other social events,

719
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:20,280
which I feel like really affected definitely Nanny's ability to interact with people. But

720
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:26,760
I would imagine all the other children as well. And at 16, Nanny married her first husband,

721
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:33,080
Charlie Braggs, a man she had only known for four months. And they had four children together

722
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:40,920
from 1921 to 1927. Oh my. After that, the marriage fell apart. And they lived with Charlie's mother

723
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:46,840
and she had the same controlling behavior as Nanny's father. So that was an extra stressor

724
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:53,400
on Nanny and their marriage. And both Nanny and Charlie tried to escape their unhappiness through

725
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:59,320
drinking and extramarital affairs. The year that their youngest daughter Florence was born,

726
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:05,960
their two middle daughters died unexpectedly of suspected food poisoning. And it's unclear

727
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:11,160
whether Charlie suspected Nanny or if this was just like the last straw in their marriage.

728
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:18,280
But he left with their oldest child, Melvina, and left the baby Florence with Nanny. And then later,

729
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:24,600
he came back to officially divorce her. Did he take the baby ever? It doesn't sound like he took

730
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:32,440
the baby. But I believe, yeah, Florence and Melvina, they both survived. Okay. Why she decided to take

731
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:38,520
out the two middle children? I, oh, she did. Oh, she, she's super guilty. Yeah. Whoa. She's very

732
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:46,200
much. Nanny. Yeah. So I don't know what her crazy thought process was there. And Nanny was then on

733
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:51,480
the hunt for husband number two, and she did it through her beloved Lonely Hearts columns.

734
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:59,000
And Frank Harrelson answered her with poetry and a photograph, which sounds cute, but this

735
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:04,600
marriage was even more disastrous than the first. Frank was an alcoholic and he was emotionally

736
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:11,000
abusive. And she endured 16 years of a terrible marriage before she decided that she had to do

737
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:16,280
something about it. 16 years. 16 years. That's a long time. That's longer than her first time. Yeah.

738
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:20,760
But he left her because he's like, you're crazy. Did he write his own poetry or did he just like

739
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:26,520
steal it from somebody else? Who knows? Yeah. But yeah, sounds like they were both terrible. Yeah.

740
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:32,600
And before Frank met his demise, unfortunately, her next two victims were her grandchildren.

741
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:41,320
Oh, no. No. Yeah. I told you lots of death. Nanny, you'd be bad. Melvina, Nanny's oldest daughter,

742
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:46,680
was married and gave birth to a baby boy in the early 1940s. And then two years later,

743
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:52,360
she gave birth to a baby girl. And Nanny was in the delivery room and holding her new granddaughter.

744
00:54:53,000 --> 00:55:01,160
And within an hour, the baby was dead. And Melvina swears that in her postpartum drug induced haze

745
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:06,440
that she swears she saw her mother stab the baby with a stick pin. Oh my gosh. However,

746
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:11,400
the doctor was unable to determine the baby's cause of death. And then six months later,

747
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:18,200
which I don't know why she left her toddler with her mother after she thinks her mother killed her

748
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:22,600
baby. I don't know if she just didn't want to believe it, but she left her toddler Robert and

749
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:30,280
her mother's care. And he mysteriously died from asphyxia. And Nanny collected a $500 insurance

750
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:34,840
policy that she had just taken out in his name. But shouldn't that go to the mother?

751
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:40,200
I don't know. Apparently grandparents could take out insurance policies on their grandchildren too.

752
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:46,440
Oh my gosh. Which I don't know why that would be the case, especially if the parents are still

753
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:54,040
living. Right. But she was able to collect on that insurance policy. And then Frank's demise came

754
00:55:54,040 --> 00:56:01,880
as he was celebrating the end of World War Two on a drunken bender. Of course. Yes. And Nanny,

755
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:06,360
knowing her husband's alcoholic habits, replaced his corn liquor with rat poison.

756
00:56:07,240 --> 00:56:11,080
She then fled the state and searched for her next husband. Wouldn't he know it

757
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:16,760
tasted different? Or if you're so drunk or like. I have a feeling he's probably already super drunk.

758
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:21,000
He's like, this tastes different. It doesn't matter. I imagine corn liquor probably didn't taste

759
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:28,200
great anyway. That's true. I don't know. Maybe he was just like, I'm ready to go. I'm sorry,

760
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:35,080
that's terrible. She then moved to North Carolina where she met her next husband, Arlie Lanning.

761
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:43,480
He had replied to her lonely hearts ad and married her after two days. Wow. In North Carolina, Nanny

762
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:49,560
became an active member of the Methodist Church. And she already had people's sympathy because

763
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:55,720
they knew about her husband's habit of visiting local brothels. The new husband? Yes. Oh, no.

764
00:56:55,720 --> 00:56:59,800
Yeah. She really knew how to pick them. Yeah. She's not very good at that. No. Well, they knew each

765
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:05,560
other for two days. Yeah, that's true. Arlie soon died after several days of nausea, vomiting,

766
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:11,320
and dizziness. Everyone was very sympathetic to Nanny and seemingly didn't suspect anything,

767
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:17,640
even though she said he had been fine until she fed him his breakfast. Oh. She learned that the

768
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:24,680
house had been left in the will to Arlie's sister. So she went ahead and packed up and skipped town

769
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:31,240
and the house was mysteriously found in a heap of ash and cinders. Oh. Nanny stayed with her mother

770
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:36,360
in law and a couple weeks later received the insurance check for the house fire. And then,

771
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:41,320
you know, the check was, of course, made out to the sister-in-law because it was belonged to her.

772
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:48,520
Right. And then Nanny's mother-in-law died mysteriously and suddenly and she again skipped

773
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:54,520
town and illegally cashed the insurance check. Oh my gosh. So she's just on a tear. You can do

774
00:57:54,520 --> 00:58:01,080
a lot of things in the 40s. You really can't, especially. I think, well, I'm not saying women

775
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:05,560
had it easier, but I think people underestimated what women could do. Yeah. And so they're like,

776
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:11,320
oh, this like sweet lady. She can't be murdering all these people or cashing bad checks. Well,

777
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:18,360
cashing good checks, but badly not for her. Right. She then went to Alabama to nurse her sister,

778
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:24,040
Dovey, who was ill and bedridden. Dovey also died soon after Nanny's arrival. She's like,

779
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:30,600
I'm here to nurse you. And dovey's like, that's really sad. And also, isn't Dovey such a cute

780
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:37,720
name? Dovey is a very sweet name. Yeah. Poor little Dovey. Yeah. Even after three horrible

781
00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:43,320
marriages, Nanny still dreamed of finding true love. I don't think she would know what to do

782
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:48,920
with true love. I don't think so either. I'm like, does she just really like weddings or

783
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:58,120
yeah, does she just like killing people? I don't know. She needs a lot of psychotic brain injury.

784
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:05,480
Oh, I forgot about her brain injury. Yeah. So in the 1950s, she paid to join the Diamond Circle

785
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:11,800
Club, which was a correspondence dating service. And she found, would have, would have Tinder

786
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:18,360
renamed itself the Diamond Circle Club? Can you imagine instead of like these like really catchy

787
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:25,160
names like Tinder and Raya? It's like Diamond Circle Club. Diamond Circle Club. Oh, that'd be

788
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:31,400
kind of cute. It would. She found husband number four, Richard Morton through the service. And

789
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:37,240
Richard was much different from her other husbands. He was a well to do salesman. He was handsome,

790
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:43,960
and he actually treated her well. Wow. But after two months of marriage, she was already looking

791
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:48,440
through local advertisements, hoping to find husband number five. So I feel like- You know,

792
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:52,680
when people have something good, they will sabotage it. I think you're right that she's like,

793
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:59,000
oh, he's treating me well and he's attractive and has a job. I don't know what to do with this.

794
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:05,000
Yeah. She's like, I have to ruin it for myself. So she was already looking for husband number five,

795
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:12,040
and her mother complicated her plan by coming to stay with the newlyweds. And within just a few days

796
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:17,000
after her arrival, her mother suffered extreme intestinal pain and passed away.

797
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:23,480
Oh my. Richard soon after died after having his coffee laced with rat poison. So rat poison is

798
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:30,280
just like her go to. Right. That's like so sad though, because her mother sounded like she was

799
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:35,320
pretty nice. Like she was a lot nicer than the father, and she's like, oh, you're in my way.

800
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:40,920
You're in my way. And then that is when she met her fifth and final husband, Samuel Doss.

801
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:45,560
I was waiting for the Doss. Like every name that came along was like, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh.

802
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:51,240
We're not there yet. Yeah. Samuel was a very upright Christian man who didn't like to waste

803
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:56,440
time or money. Nanny was irritated with his restrictions though, and she left him and

804
01:00:56,440 --> 01:01:02,440
returned to Alabama. Unfortunately for him, he begged his wife to return to him, which was

805
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:07,960
the worst mistake of his life. Yeah. He's like, I dodged a bullet, but I want that bullet to come

806
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:13,560
right back. He's like, she's so crazy. I want her back. Yeah. He even promised to not be strict

807
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:20,280
with money and took out two life insurance policies on himself, of which Nanny was the beneficiary.

808
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:27,560
Nanny did return and gave him arsenic laced coffee, and he died a few hours later. So she was like,

809
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:33,800
oh, wow, thank you for those two huge insurance policies that you took out for me. I will collect.

810
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:38,200
And she's like, and real quick, will you just drink this? Yeah. Fresh. Like you really look

811
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:44,360
like you need this cup of coffee. Thankfully, the physician who treated him was immediately

812
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:50,680
suspicious and performed an autopsy and found the evidence of poisoning. Oklahoma authorities,

813
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:56,040
which is where she was residing at the time was Oklahoma, arrested her on suspicion of murder.

814
01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:01,480
Detectives apparently had a hard time getting her attention because she was too enthralled with

815
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:06,920
her romantic heat magazine, which is I'm like, I don't know what type of magazine that was,

816
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:12,920
but that is a real gross name. I really hope it's not what I'm thinking. I know. I don't know.

817
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:17,240
I know. When they took it like, ma'am, please, ma'am, please look away from that. Ma'am,

818
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:22,520
could you not do that? Yeah. When they took it away from her, she giggled and flirted with them

819
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:27,880
like a young girl. And she finally confessed to murdering her husband, Samuel, the reason she

820
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:34,520
gave, I'm sorry, I shouldn't laugh at this, the reason she gave, he wouldn't let her watch her

821
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:42,920
television show or turn on the fan during hot summer nights. Oh my gosh. With a terrible reason

822
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:50,200
for murder, but also that would make me grumpy too. I'm like, look, I get it. We were at nights

823
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:56,280
are unbearable. We were just talking about how grumpy we get when we're overheated. Yes.

824
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:03,640
Okay. She then promised to give them more information as long as they returned her

825
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:09,960
magazine to her. She then confessed the murder of her other husbands after her. I can't even imagine

826
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:16,120
the officer is like, sure. I guess. And just writing stuff down and he's like, he keeps being like,

827
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:25,080
oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. She's like, I need more paper. I know. She's like reading her magazine

828
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:29,320
and like flirting with him and he's just like, you're crazy. Looking her finger and turning

829
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:35,080
the page and she's like, and then this guy is like another one. How many husbands? Yeah.

830
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:41,000
After her confessions, she became a national media sensation. Reporters were always trying

831
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:45,480
to get interviews with the murderous granny who always seemed to be laughing or giggling.

832
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:50,600
While Nanny was awaiting sentencing, the bodies of her eight victims were exhumed

833
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:57,400
and autopsies revealed arsenic and her deceased husbands and her mother and her other victims

834
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:03,960
showed signs of smothering. Nanny pleaded guilty to murder and was sentenced to life in prison.

835
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:09,400
Although interestingly, she never admitted to the murder of any of her biological family members.

836
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:15,320
Of course. And then yeah, she would do that. I know. I'm like, I don't know if that is like

837
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:22,840
a sign of remorse. Like if she felt more ashamed of that than her husbands or if she was just like,

838
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:28,200
I'm not going to tell you these. Yeah, it's hard to say. Yeah. And then she died of leukemia in

839
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:37,960
prison in 1965. Oh my gosh, that is. Yeah. I what's so creepy to me is that she seemed to just like

840
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:45,400
not be fazed by it and was just seemed flattered by the press's attention and would just always be

841
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:51,480
smiling and giggling whenever she would answer questions. So no remorse. She was true sociopath.

842
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:58,600
Sociopath with definitely, I think, some sort of brain damage or arrest development. Oh yeah.

843
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:05,560
And narcissistic tendencies. Yeah. I'm like, definitely a lot going on there. But I'm like,

844
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:12,600
the way she acts sounds a lot like like a child. Yeah. Like a terrible child. Very terrible. Yeah.

845
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:16,280
She's like, oh, you're not going to let me watch my TV show. I'm going to kill you.

846
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:22,360
He's like, no, you can't watch murder. You murdered. Murdered. You wrote murder. Murder. She

847
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:29,080
she's like, yes, I wrote that murder. Exactly. But I was like, good job to her first husband for

848
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:34,200
just dipping out of there. He's the only one that didn't get murdered. Could you imagine when he found

849
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:40,360
out that he was the only surviving husband? Yeah, he's probably like, yeah, I knew that was going

850
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:47,800
to happen. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he must have suspected. Yeah. I'm just amazed that she didn't

851
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:53,320
kill her other two daughters. Yeah, I don't understand. I wonder if the middle daughters,

852
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:58,680
they both did something that irritated her because she has not nothing about her says

853
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:03,960
logical, reasonable thinking. Absolutely not. It could have been anything. Or she's like, I only

854
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:11,640
wanted two kids. Yeah, she just randomly picked. Yeah. That is horrible. I can't even imagine.

855
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:19,000
I feel so terrible for her daughter that both of her children were murdered by her own mother. Yeah.

856
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:29,800
Oh, no, I know. Nanny. I know. So that is the terrible story of Nanny Doss. Oh, wow.

857
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:35,720
I don't know why I can't remember that. I feel like I've heard that before. I mean,

858
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:42,360
I've definitely heard the name. The like the lonely hearts killer. Yeah. Yeah.

859
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:46,760
One of the many names. Right. Yeah. She has a lot of them. But

860
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:53,400
yeah, that was that was really interesting. I know. It makes me think of rear window.

861
01:06:53,400 --> 01:07:02,280
Yes. The only heart lady. Although she was just sad. Yeah. Yeah. A little bit arsenic and old

862
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:08,360
lace. Yes. Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's a good movie. It's like if one of the old ladies from arsenic

863
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:12,760
and old lace was the lonely hearts lady and rear window. Yes. Yes. Exactly.

864
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:19,000
I just rewatched that the other day. Rear window. That's right. Yeah. I'm so happy.

865
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:25,720
I mean, you know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was really sad. It occurred to me. I was like,

866
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:33,480
oh, Grace Kelly, she's so beautiful as Lisa and I want to be like her. And then it occurred to me

867
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:39,080
that I actually identify more with Jimmy Stewart in that movie because I'm like, what are the neighbors

868
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:44,920
doing over there? Yeah. Same. Yeah. Ignoring everything else. Yeah. And then stirring out

869
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:49,480
the window and being like, I think that guy's a killer and I'm going to prove it. My husband's

870
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:53,080
like trying to get my attention. I'm like, but what's that weirdo doing over there? Yeah.

871
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:58,760
I'm just, we all want to be a Grace Kelly, but we all realize we're a Jimmy Stewart.

872
01:07:58,760 --> 01:08:06,200
We're old Jimmy Stewart. That's just a fact of life. I mean, there's worse things you could be.

873
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:08,680
You could be nanny dogs. No, I don't want to be here. No.

874
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:17,960
I don't. I like that lady is terrible. She is terrible. I like kept reading and I was like,

875
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:23,720
oh my gosh, how many people are going to die? It's a good thing she got caught too. Yeah.

876
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:28,040
That doctor had kept going. She would have kept going. There's, yeah, there's no way she would

877
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:31,800
have stopped until someone stopped her. I just want to know what was going on

878
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:38,200
on with the doctors in the other areas because this doctor was like, oh, this is super obvious.

879
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:45,080
Like he immediately suspected her. Right. Yeah. Some doctors are like, I got a lot going on.

880
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:49,960
Yeah. This guy's like, he's like, not me. You are crazy.

881
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:56,840
Wow. That was a good one. I like the theme. I mean, it's a terrible theme, but I like that.

882
01:08:56,840 --> 01:09:00,040
I like this plan. I know. I can't wait to decide what our next movie.

883
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:05,000
I know. Oh, it could be anything. It's gonna be very, very fun. Yes.

884
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:11,320
Do you have anything you would like to add? I don't think so. I was trying to think if

885
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:17,880
there was anything that I was going to say, if there was, then I have forgotten. Yeah. Oh,

886
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:27,240
yeah. Same. It was a very hot day. It's a smoky day. There's fire nearby are not that close,

887
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:37,880
but it's in our state. Hot and smoky is what you want. Like your steak to be, but not the outside.

888
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:46,280
Not your lungs. No, definitely not your lungs. Do you have anything else to say?

889
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:52,360
I don't think I do. I always feel like I have, there's something I'm like, oh, I'll say that later.

890
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:57,400
And at the end, I'm like, well, I'm, you know, we're, that's all folks. We're just like so engrossed

891
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:03,800
in telling our stories that we just forget. Yeah. But if anyone has any theme ideas,

892
01:10:04,440 --> 01:10:13,320
definitely comment or email us. Yes. Email us oddly curious podcast at gmail.com.

893
01:10:13,880 --> 01:10:19,720
Our Instagram is oddly curious pod. Our TikTok is oddly curious pod.

894
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:24,520
Our red bubble, which has merch is oddly curious pod.

895
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:32,680
Oh yes. And I now have our cute little oddly curious crow gracing my laptop.

896
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:39,880
The laptop that records and edits our episodes. Yeah. It's got to be the little mascot.

897
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:46,120
It's the mascot. It's the mascot because that's you hear, you hear it first at the beginning of the

898
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:51,880
song. The other day my mom was like, your theme song actually scares me sometimes. And we're like,

899
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:57,880
good. I know. I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. I'm like, it's, it's supposed to instill

900
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:04,440
a hint of fear and a hint of curiosity. And you're like, what's happening with this song?

901
01:11:04,440 --> 01:11:09,960
What's happening with this story? Who's nanny da? Oh my God. I still can't believe like how well

902
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:15,960
the guy nailed it. Yeah. Do you remember his name? I feel like we should give him a shout out.

903
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:22,360
Yeah. I think we, yeah. Next episode I'll look him up. He was, he was like, I gave him criteria.

904
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:27,960
This is what we're looking for. And he's like, so here's the thing. And we gave him the most bonkers

905
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:33,560
like all over the place. We're like, we want this and this and this. And he's like, I know what you mean.

906
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:43,560
He said, I got you fam. So yeah, that's it. That's it. Also, good idea. Maybe we should do

907
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:54,280
like an Instagram question of what, what themes would you like? Yes. What are you looking for?

908
01:11:54,280 --> 01:12:02,600
Tell us what you want. What you really, really want. Please. I really hope someone says zig a

909
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:14,200
zig. It'll be me. All right. Well, that's all from me. Yeah, that's all we wrote. That's

910
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:22,440
I literally wrote a lot. I wrote so much about the color green. After a while I was like,

911
01:12:22,440 --> 01:12:29,480
Oh my gosh, there's so much, so much material for this color that at one point I just was

912
01:12:29,480 --> 01:12:35,080
like swimming and green information. Don't swim in the green. Yeah, I'm like, and this is yeah,

913
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:41,320
it's actually I trimmed a lot. There was so much more I could have added. But I realized it was

914
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:46,840
basically like 100 years of green that it's like, yeah, there's going to be a lot. Yeah.

915
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:52,600
Well, it was very interesting. Yeah. So but thank you. Yours is also very interesting. Thank you.

916
01:12:52,600 --> 01:13:02,040
And I'm now afraid of giggling grannies. Yeah, you should be. But on that note, remember to be odd.

917
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:10,280
And be curious. And don't poison anything. No, don't don't ingest poison and don't poison anyone.

918
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:17,880
Yeah. And remember that green is not a bad color. Just don't purchase it from the turn of the century.

919
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:24,760
Yeah. No. And be wary of head injuries. Yeah. Yeah, take care of your concussions. Yeah.

920
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:46,360
Yeah. All right. Well, we will see you next time. See you next time. Goodbye.