Then I came across something that talked about the Karayuki-Sans in Singapore.
So I was like, what's that?
And then, Karayuki-San.
So, it's a Japanese prostitute.
Oh.
Ooh.
Hi everyone, and welcome to this episode of the Chris Hansen Conversation.
I have someone with me right now, but before I introduce my guest in the studio,
I would like to say a very, very big thank you for these little munchkins again.
I tell you, I just love this.
I tell you, I'm going to get fatter and fatter and fatter because of these little munchkins.
They're called vades, and they're from Gordon's Vades.
And I'd like to thank you Gordon's Vades, especially Vijay, for picking the trip all the time
before we start the shoot in the studio.
For really, these little nuggets of absolute, crispiest, fluffiest vades in the whole damn country.
And it comes with these little, little spicy ones too.
The cheese is great as well as the prawn vades.
So, make sure it's on the screen.
Make sure you call that number or WhatsApp that number or get online
and get you some of these from Gordon's Vades.
Thanks again, guys. Thanks, Vijay.
And now back to the show.
And in this episode, I got someone really, really special.
Initially, you know, I wanted him to come on the show because I wanted to be part of the fray
where Estee was involved.
Then Mothership wrote an article about him.
And then I discovered as I was doing my research,
I discovered that this guy is more than just about that story.
We'll come to the story in a bit.
But I've discovered that this guy is an award-winning author, a playwright, a filmmaker,
and an educator, a performer, and you know, and I realized, my goodness,
I got myself a gem in the studio.
It's not just about what he did.
And I'm going to tell you now, what he did was this guy collects artifacts.
And then he found some from, you know, that came from the era of the World War II era in Europe.
And then he found some artifacts and he returned it 6,000, what was it, 6,000 kilometers away.
And he actually found the people, the families of these artifacts,
the person that owned these artifacts.
He found the families and he returned it to them.
And I wanted him in the studio for that purpose.
And I really discovered, my goodness, this guy's a raw talent.
He's absolutely talented.
And he's here with me and welcome to the studio, Wesley Leon Arzoo.
Thank you so much, Chris. Thank you so much for your kind words.
Did I get it all right?
You returned the artifacts to the families upon which these artifacts belong to someone,
a family member, an ancestor?
Yes, the person's son.
Oh, the person's son. Wow.
And that son is no longer around?
The son is around.
Oh, the father owned it. Okay, okay. I was wondering.
Sorry about that. Brain's not working.
Okay, so, you know, honestly, I remember what I said.
I wanted you in the studio for that story.
Then I discovered more things about you.
I mean, dude, you write, you teach media, right?
Script writing.
You've done a film that has had so much accolades, isn't it?
Don't be modest, man. Don't be modest. Come on.
And, you know, I thought, my goodness, there's more to this guy than just that story.
So let's start from the top.
Author, playwright, filmmaker, educator, performer.
So which one of these came first for you?
It was filmmaking, actually.
So it actually started when I was just in like primary four or five.
No way, dude. That's nine, that's ten, eleven years old.
Yeah, a really long time.
Not by chance because it's actually quite an interesting story.
So me and my sister, we were eating Kinderberino chocolates.
And then the competition, there was a competition,
and the first prize was to go to Disneyland in America, I think.
So we were like, oh my gosh, we got to win first prize.
So we ate the chocolates, entered the competition,
we drew the little letters and stuff like that.
And then we didn't win first prize, but we won second prize,
which was a Sony Hi8 Handycam.
Okay.
Yeah, and then since then, I mean, me and my sister had a camera there.
We were playing at home, making films with each other,
some funny stories, coming up with funny characters.
And then I think it was from there that I realized,
hey, actually I kind of like doing this.
And when it came after all levels,
I had to choose which polytechnic to go to,
I then chose, okay, maybe I can try filmmaking in poly.
And that's how my journey kind of started.
Wait a second. Filmmaking in poly. Which poly was this?
This was the Mastiff Poly.
Ah, okay.
Filmmaking in poly, because back in my day,
there was no such thing.
So you got to be really kind of young.
I think back then, even there were only like maybe two or three
courses in Singapore that did filmmaking.
There's one in Nian, Tumasik Poly at the time.
But nowadays there's like so many more.
Yeah, nowadays.
So, okay, how young are you, man?
Sorry?
How young are you now?
Now I'm 38.
Okay, don't be shy.
Nothing to be shy about. I'm 53, nothing to hide.
Okay. So yeah, okay.
So you went into Tumasik Poly and you went into filmmaking.
What happened next?
I was doing films, having a lot of fun.
And then of course, I went to National Service.
And after that was done, then I decided to continue filmmaking.
Not a very exciting journey, but basically I went back to
film school to do my degree.
And I just, for me, while doing films in school,
I think it was during the holidays, like school holidays.
That's the period where I would do film projects with my friends.
And then with the films, we would submit to festivals or
screenings in Singapore, et cetera.
And that's what I did for like many, many years, really.
Did you find that when you got a Handycam when you were,
what, 10, 11 years old, did you find that you had an innate talent for it?
Or did you have to work hard at it eventually as the years went by?
And you went into Polytechnic and then, you know,
did you find that you were natural, these sort of things?
I think I generally like to tell stories.
So when we were playing with Handycam, it wasn't just, oh,
filming the hamster running in the cage,
but it was filming a story, a story that me and my sister would make up.
So I think from young, I love telling stories.
I think I was, I wouldn't say I was like,
perfectly good at it, but I was very interested in it.
And I think since young, when I would play with my toys,
it's actually the same thing when you're moving your toys around
and they're all acting, it's a bigger thing.
It's actually, yeah, so I think it all came from that really.
And my dad's a big movie buff.
He watches TV all day long, so I think that had an influence as well.
So do you owe any of these to anyone?
I wouldn't say the skill sets, but I think when you go into filmmaking
or you go into anything that's arts-related,
having the support of your parents does play a huge role.
So because if the parents are not supportive,
then you might detour and go to science, right?
And you might forget about your arts thing.
But my parents were very supportive,
so I think that helped a great deal for me to like,
okay, continue this journey and see where it goes.
I think for many people, they never had the opportunity to even see like,
oh, where would this go?
It just kind of stopped there as a hobby.
But for you, you were well supported by your folks, right?
How about you teach? Where do you teach now?
I teach at LaSalle.
And you're teaching?
I teach in the film programs. I teach screenwriting and documentaries.
Do you find that today, the kids that you're teaching,
or the kids you have been teaching as well,
do they have that kind of support from home?
Because this is nothing like being a doctor or going to be a lawyer
or going to be an engineer. It's film, right?
So do you hear any feedback coming back from these kids about
how much support they get from home?
I think between me and my students,
we have like a 20-year age gap.
So I studied 20 years ago. They are studying now.
So the biggest difference is that nowadays,
it's a lot easier to study arts,
where it's a lot more accepted, a lot more courses.
Parents can see like, okay, my kid's going to be fine.
They can get a job and they'll be fine.
So for them, I noticed that they don't have as much of that stress
or lack of support from their parents.
But as compared to other fields, we are still way, way miles off.
So some students still feel the pressure
because it may not come from the parents,
but if you go CNY visiting and then your relatives ask,
what do you study? Film. What? What's that?
So that pressure can come from there as well.
I think people who do that kind of shit,
it's real fucking sad. Why?
Because if I were a kid today,
and one of these students that you just mentioned,
someone, a relation or relations would make mention like,
why are you doing this kind of things?
It's so discouraging, isn't it?
But then again, then again, that being said,
your guy that's been doing this for how long?
Sorry?
Someone being a filmmaker,
for how long already have you been doing this?
Besides teaching, you're in the field, you're in the industry.
About 20 years.
20 years, okay.
For a guy that's been in it for 20 years,
I'm going to throw this at you then.
When people ask kids these sort of questions,
like why are you in media? Why are you in filmmaking?
Why are you in film? Per se.
Is there a future or not? Because Singapore is so small.
Look, we've only got, how many big players do we have here, man?
One.
And if you are a picture company,
you also look towards this one to commission you
to do stuff for them.
Documentaries, yada, yada, yada, yada, right?
Which I'm sure you've had experiences with.
And is there any truth that the young people today,
should they go into filmmaking or not?
I ask this question, practically on with a lot of my guests.
Like, you know, is there, people who do interesting things,
even if they're hobbies, but hobbies that earn money, okay?
Would it be okay for the young person to go into this field?
Like you've got students already on this course, right?
If I were one of your students and you have this question coming from me,
what would your answer be to them?
So I think it depends. My answer to them would be,
what do you rank higher in your life?
So if something that's in the financial side of things,
you want to earn a lot of money,
then probably not to go into the arts because,
unless you open your own production house,
or maybe you get a really high position, then yeah, sure.
But generally, I think when they did a survey of graduates from NTU,
from all different courses,
the arts related course was the last one in terms of when graduates come out,
how much pay do they get?
So it was last by a big gap from the first one.
So if money is an issue, then probably not the best thing to take up.
The other thing is that if you're also someone who needs that kind of encouragement
for people to go, hey, no, you can do it, you can do it, you'll be fine,
and you're still unsure, then maybe this may not be for you
because if you're going in for the long run,
you can't always depend on this kind of like encouragement and support.
This is something you need to have in you because I want to do it.
Self-motivated.
Yeah, so it really requires a lot of that.
Sometimes it may not come just then and that, say you're 17 years old,
you may not have it yet, but it may grow over time,
but usually there's something there that's kind of just...
What do you mean? Something that you mean a seed?
Yeah, correct.
All right. But Wesley, what you just said, thank you so much for your candor.
Let me just angle it this way.
What would you think in your opinion, and by your experience,
can be, should be perhaps done in the arts, for the arts perhaps even,
to make sure the vibrancy is just going to grow and get bigger and better
for young Singaporeans who really have a drive and a passion
to get into this field of work?
When you're thinking ought to be done, should be done, could be done,
must be done, maybe, what do you think?
We're definitely growing a lot.
We are?
So we have a lot of...
Fuck me, I never realized that.
I mean in comparison to like 20 years ago.
Really? I thought we were doing more stuff back in 20 years.
Pardon my puny brain, man.
But we talked about 20 years ago, right?
We've had in the 70s, dude, come on, we had the Shaw Brothers here, man.
We had in Sigalap, next to I think Ocean Park got a minimum is now,
where Jackie's Bowl used to be, I think there was a movie studio there, right?
We had the silver screen people, Saloma, P. Ramlee, the Malay dramas, isn't it?
Even though Sandy Waro is quite something.
I mean, okay, I'm old, dude, I'm old.
Okay, older.
So I mean we've had so much happening then.
We even had our own, there's this action star, I can't remember her name, oh gosh,
in the 70s and it's a female action star.
Cleopatra Wong?
Cleopatra Wong, thank you so much.
Talk to a film guy, he knows all this.
We even had the bionic boy, right?
Oh, I didn't know that.
Yeah, we had, we had.
He was a St. Stephen's school boy.
Johnson Yap, that was his name.
He was older than me, I think by two or three years.
When I got into school, I was in St. Stephen's and St. Pat's, right?
So this guy was from the school.
Johnson Yap was his name, right?
And his younger brother was in, was my batch, he was, and he's a whole Te Kwan Do exponent.
And he became, he became, he had that one film, you know?
So I don't know, man, I mean, if you ask me, I think things were a lot more, hey,
happening way back when.
But compared to today, today, if we're talking about, when you say the arts,
I know this is where I'm at odds with things, about things here.
I've always felt that there is, seem to be a separation between, let's have a debate about this,
between the arts and entertainment.
Agree or disagree?
Yes, so entertainment could be more leaning more towards something a little bit more commercial, perhaps.
But arts could be something a bit more independent.
So if it's more independent or a bit more indie.
So indie don't make money?
It may not make as much money, yeah, the venues they may be playing in may be so small.
Yeah, so, yeah, those kind of things.
So that's the problem, isn't it?
It is. But in terms of like the arts, I think we are growing in other areas, for example, animation.
So we have a lot of big companies come in Singapore, like Ubisoft and stuff like that.
But in terms of cinema, yeah, definitely we had a big, a kind of like a setback for quite a while.
And I think because, I don't know, cinema costs so much money to make something where, I don't know,
it's just a, it's a whole different thing.
I think even if we have a Singaporean film in the cinemas here in Singapore, Golden Village or Kete or whichever,
it's very different from, let's say, the cinemas in Japan.
So cinemas in Japan, they have a quota of like, oh, how many local films can we show and how many international?
And with that, they are able to have more Japanese films.
But in Singapore, there isn't that because Golden Village, Kete is a business, they're not arts organization.
So if you have a Singapore film for a week and no one's watching it, they'll just cut it.
You know how it sounds, what you just told me? I tell you how it sounds like, okay?
It sounds like, and we can both relate because I know we're fans of the same football club.
We've only just met. We've only just met and I found that out.
And the problems that football club has is because it's got owners who's more interested in the commercial aspect of the club
rather than the spirit and culture and pride and the history that came along with that club, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, it's about the freaking money, right? So right now it sounds like that.
So if that's the case, if the arts is all, okay, indie stuff, and it's not about making money,
then I tell you, there won't hardly be a future, wouldn't there? For the kids today that's on courses like yours.
There will be, but...
They have to spread the wings, they've got to get out of Singapore and Singapore will never grow.
So what the fuck's happening with the arts in Singapore then?
There will be, but it just may not be a route that has so much money involved.
That's what I'm saying, man. But in Singapore, living, working, having children here, owning a piece of property,
sometimes I don't think we're given a choice, isn't it?
Depends on what kind of lifestyle we want, I guess, because I have a lot of friends who are musicians or artists.
Yeah, so do I.
And the lifestyle they have might be very different from a typical Singapore lifestyle,
which means equals to like, oh, that person has made it in life, nice house, nice car, that kind of thing.
But they might not even be interested in that, they're all fine living in a different lifestyle, spending a bit less.
Don't get me the wrong way, man. I am always a guy that loves musos, love people who are in the arts.
I'm a staunch supporter for all my friends. I'm an entertainer as well. I sing, I act, I do all kinds of...
Fuck you, you have my studio, yeah? So I'm asking these questions because these are the thoughts in my mind, in my opinion,
that run through the heads of many Singaporean families and their kids who have passion for other things.
You know, I dread to think when a kid comes, I hope, you know, like my kid, I have a certain fear inside of me,
that one day, but I know it's not going to happen, thank God for that, if he were to come to me and say,
I want to be a painter, and I go, oh fuck.
Because who the hell in Singapore is going to support that? I've got another friend, great artist, great, great really,
with his pencil, also with spray, you know, and he's great, yeah, great. But he can't do that for a living, you know,
and it's sad, right? And guys like you, guys like me, you know, we understand the joy of these things, of the arts,
and it irks me too when I hear a lot of young people today, now most of them are not that young,
and they go, what's the point of learning history? It's pointless. And I think it's so freaking sad, because why?
It's got nothing to do with me, it's not going to teach me how to live my life moving forward. I say, you're fucking kidding me.
You live your life, well actually the world doesn't learn it as well either, you know.
I mean, wars that are happening, you know, all the strife and conflict and all the political discourse that's going on globally,
even world leaders are all brimming with freaking degrees, don't learn from history, you know,
and the things that's occurred in the past that you can look at, examine it, and make sure it doesn't happen again.
We don't learn, right? So it's really, really sad, it's more prevalent today that I don't need to learn literature,
I don't need to learn history, it's pointless, it doesn't get me anywhere.
And I feel that it's really, really sad, because culturally, if we continue on this route, culturally we've lost it.
Yeah, I agree, especially in Singapore where things move so fast, right? So it's even more prevalent.
Yeah, you know, like I said to some of my muso friends who came in, you know, my previous talk shows,
and I've said this before and I'll say it again and I'll continue saying it, the moment a nation loses its music, it's lost its soul.
So the concern I have is, if we have all the talent, guys you are teaching, guys and girls you're teaching,
and then there's not enough jobs out there, what are they going to do?
And then they go, hypothetically, they go away, they go to Australia, they go to the UK, they go to the US,
and they have thousands more of people to compete against, and then we have that one gem, like Malaysia had Michelle Yeoh, right?
Every now and then, as a matter of fact, she's the first, it's not even every now and then,
and then Malaysia says, yay, we've got, you know, Dr. Michelle Yeoh and she's an Oscar winner.
And then we have someone like that in Singapore, and then we lost a talent.
Now of course, the argument could be, we didn't lose a talent, that fellow Singaporean can't change the fact,
the guy's there and he's doing great, great, yeah, we applaud him, we should, but we didn't groom him here.
You see where I'm coming from. So I think, and the next argument would be, come on Chris, come on,
it's, we're Singapore, it's just a tiny little place, what do you expect? But can we think out of the box?
Why do I do what I do? It's a tiny place, I'm not thinking about just Singapore, that's my point, right?
So where you're sitting right now, I'm thinking so much talking, you should be the one talking.
Where you're sitting right now, man, you know, based on the things you've just heard me say,
what do you think, what should be done, what could be done?
Opinion, I threw a spanner, I know.
I think it's definitely tough, I think because of Singapore being so small, it does affect greatly for certain art forms.
For example, cinema, like filmmaking for the big screen, because our nation is not that many people,
so even if everyone went to watch the film, it still may not make back the money to some degree of how big the movie is.
So, which is why a lot of films that are made in Singapore, their target is not just Singapore,
but maybe it's Southeast Asia, Malaysia, Indonesia, you're making like a Malay horror film.
That's your target because you want, that's the only way to recoup back your losses,
because if it's a Malay horror film and if every Malay speaking person went to watch in cinema in Singapore,
probably still can't make a profit, that's severe.
But that's for cinema kind of stuff, but it costs so much money to make.
But for other art forms, like I don't know, I'm not so sure what's going on,
but definitely we could use a lot more help in the grant department.
So I have friends who are musicians where when they're applying for a grant,
and if they don't get a grant from a certain organization,
it means that they may not have enough money for the next two years,
because the grant will last them two years, and it means that, okay, they might stop playing music or just be done.
So, which I'm guessing a lot of artists may fall in that category of,
oh, they did not get a grant, they just can't continue,
because that grant actually helps them to create certain works and also give them some kind of,
I don't know, some kind of money to sustain a certain period of time.
You're talking about IMDA?
No, no, IMDA is friend.
So, yeah, but those kind of stuff does affect.
But again, I mean, we can't, I'm not sure what's going on in the organization,
but they can't support everyone who applies.
Sure, I've heard that before.
So what do you think young people today, freaking talented, come together,
and they go, let's be enterprising, let's be entrepreneurs, and let's start from the ground up.
You know Sandy Tan?
Yeah.
Hey, Sandy, shout out to you, Sandy.
I hope you're doing great in the US.
She's done great, but she had to get out of here.
With a book as well.
Yeah, I mean, very, very happy for her, really.
She's so passionate about this, yeah.
Sandy Tan is now thriving in the US.
But like I said, if we could do something out of Singapore,
plan produced out of Singapore by Singaporeans,
and we can film something that takes the world by storm, you know,
I think that's going to be great, and I don't see why we should lose sight of that.
I feel perhaps maybe people have just given up too easily or can't get the grant, you know,
and we're too over-reliant on grants.
If we can't get a job, then we create it for ourselves.
I don't know.
I mean, is there something missing today, maybe in courses like yours perhaps, you know,
and telling your students that, guys, tell you what, man,
think out of the box and start your own thing.
It's digital.
You don't need to have reels and reels of film anymore, right?
It's digital.
It's not that much more expensive.
It's digital, and I think it can still be done.
My take.
Anyway, I wasn't digressing, you know, whatever I've got planned,
because really it's something that's always been a heavy on my chest,
because when grants are offered to the arts community,
the issue I think people, you know, some segments of the people in the community
that got impacted are basically the musos.
If music, and we've got great ones here, can be respected for what they do as professionals,
and they write their own original stuff, and then we get noticed.
I mean, wouldn't that be the bomb, really?
You know?
Pretty soon, the next episode, I'll be having the good people from an iconic band in Singapore.
They'll be here with me in the studio, and I'll be talking to them.
They wrote a fantastic song, and that song took the charts, man.
Guess what? One and only.
You know, and I'm asking myself, why?
Why can't we go on doing stuff like this?
Back in the 80s, music was thriving in this country.
Who was talking about grants then? No one.
We were not, it was even a word that we don't even think about,
because we hardly hear about it, you know?
So why, right?
But you did something.
You had this wonderful film called I Want to Go Home.
And that one had its world premiere at the Busan Film Fest,
and nominated for the, let me, I hope I pronounce this right, the Messe Net Award?
I think so.
Hey, Kai, you can put that one up now, I Want to Go Home.
Yeah, that one. Yeah, here we go.
And ST said, I Want to Go Home will pull tears from even the most hardened soul.
Can you tell us a little bit more about I Want to Go Home?
Sure. So I Want to Go Home is the story of a man named Yasuo Takamatsu.
Japanese, huh?
He's a Japanese man, and he lives in Onagawa, Japan, which is on the western coast of Japan, not far from Fukushima.
So in 2011, when the tsunami hit Japan, he lost his wife.
Oh dear.
And at that time, he was already in his 50s, but then he decided to take up scuba diving,
and he would search for his wife every week, so he'll dive and find for his wife.
So when I read the story on the Daily Telegraph, I think in 2014, I was very inspired by him because I found him to be amazing.
This was a man who was diving in the sea, took up scuba diving at like 50 plus, and then dives in the sea to search for his wife.
Every day?
Every week.
And then most people would say to him, like, hey, Mr. Takamatsu, are you out of your mind?
You're obviously not going to find your wife.
But for me, I found, like, wow, this guy's amazing. I need to meet him.
So in 2015, I met him in Onagawa. I spent a week with him and then realized his story has a lot more than just that article that came and went in 2012 or so.
So I decided to write a book about him, and there was also a documentary.
It was actually just supposed to be a book.
We were talking about grants just now. So it was supposed to be a book.
And I was applying for grants for a book, but I did not get the grants.
So until I was talking to an organization called Tokyo Film Ex in Japan, when I was doing a book.
I was part of a workshop, like, many years ago.
And every year, they would ask me, Wesley, what are you doing this year?
And so that year, in 2014, 2015, I told them, oh, I'm going up to Onagawa, actually into Japan to write a book about this guy.
And they're like, oh, you know, we actually can fund you if you do a documentary, then we can fund you the thing.
So I was like, oh, that's interesting. So in my mind, I'm thinking, if I do the documentary, I can then also write my book
because the funding is kind of the book funding I needed is to go there and meet him for a week.
So because of that, I had to do a documentary because it was part of the funding.
Of course. Yes, of course. Yeah.
So I wrote the book. That was my priority. That's what I wanted to do.
Right. I also did the documentary. When I did the documentary, I brought my student up with me at the time because we didn't have enough budget.
Right. So we went to film and it was time to show the documentary.
It was like an hour long because that was the requirement. And I felt like, OK, not to show up to the documentary.
I think I'm going to put it on YouTube or stuff like that. That was my intention. OK.
I was thinking, oh, you know what? Maybe I'll just try and submit to some festival, see what happens.
So I submitted to Busan because that was the festival I always wanted to be in as a film student when I was a student.
So before doing this film, I was doing short films like all the time. So there's maybe like 12 or 13 short films.
So every short film I have, I'll submit to the Busan Film Fest. I'll never get in.
So this time came where I had the film. I was like, OK, I'll just submit. Maybe because it was longer.
Yeah, it was. I'm only kidding. I'm not saying it's a sweet story. I think it's a sweet story.
Yeah. And then it was selected. And it's kind of interesting because now with the book and the documentary out, we have two versions of sharing his story.
Right. Just now, the year 2023, Mr. Takamatsu still dives in the sea every one to two weeks. He's already 65 or so.
I still talk to him from time to time. But he's really happy now because he's now a grandfather.
So his daughter gave birth like two years ago. So he shares with me pictures of him and his grandson. So he looks happy.
I even eventually, I think my main thing was to find out why is he still diving? Why are you doing this?
So I can't put it too straightforward. So eventually I asked him and he said, I dive because that's the only way I can feel close to my wife.
And I kind of understood that. And I kind of, okay, you know, if that brings you some amount of closure to some degree, or you feel happy when you're underneath the water, feeling close to her. Sure.
Oh, man. Poignant story. So to this day, he still dives, hoping to find his wife.
This is going to go down into folklore for the next couple of hundred years, man.
Yeah, the guy who dives. Yeah, the guy who dives is like the dog. Oh gosh.
Achigou. Thank you. Oh boy. Happens only in Japan. People and even animals are so loyal to each other. It's amazing, man.
Yeah. Wow. So this is an interesting article. Kai, I don't know whether you put it up yet just now.
The LaSalle teacher gets his biggest break at Busan Film Fest 2017. Here we go, man. There you go.
Yeah. And yeah, it's I think it was a great idea. I mean, coming across the story of his and then, you know, filming it and all that. Wow. Wow.
So, what you call yourself, man? A Renaissance man?
Because that's what I'm naming this episode. That one with the Renaissance man.
I mean, I like to try different things. So, dude, I mean, come on, man. I mean, you write. You teach, you know, and it's the arts and the literary world that you are involved in.
Yeah. You do. You're a filmmaker. I mean, how can you not be a Renaissance man?
On top of that, you know, you besides the film, right, that you've done, I want to go home. You also wrote a book that became the Singapore Book Prize winner.
And that is this one. I'm showing it because I just been gifted this from Wesley, the Pungkawala and the prostitute. Can you tell us a little bit more about this one?
Singapore Literature. I love the artwork, man. I feel like getting inked with this.
So, this one came about after I want to go home. So, when I finished it, I spent like two weeks in the library just reading poems by Sylvio Wong and just reading Singapore poetry.
Yeah. So, I was just doing that in the school library. And then next to the school library is next to the section of Singapore books on literature.
That was the Singapore books on history. So, as someone who is interested in history, I went over there and just flipped around.
And then I came across something that talked about the Karayuki-sans in Singapore. So, I was like, what's that? And then Karayuki-san. So, it's a Japanese prostitute.
Oh. Yeah. So, as I researched more about it, I realized, hey, how can I not have known I'm like at that time 35 or something?
How I have not known that we had Japanese prostitutes in Singapore for a very big period of time. From when to when?
At least from the 1850s to the 1910s. Really? Yeah. That's like... You mean this is pre-war? Yeah. Correct. Wow. Okay.
And that's a huge amount of like 60, 70 years considering Singapore is like 200 years or so. Right. So, and how come in school, in our history textbooks, we never really...
Come on, dude....was not really like mentioned, right? Come on, man. I mean, it's like we don't talk about prostitutes in our school history textbooks. No damn way you'll be allowed.
Yeah. But... Right....Bai Fail was so... It was important. Why? Why? Why was it important?
Because I think Singapore history is not just about, oh, British masters, successful immigrants who did this, did that, formed a big building. But everyone else who played a big part.
So like our convict labourers who were here... Yeah, that one's in our history books. Yeah. Right. That one, the convict labourers like Cathedral of the Good Shepherd was built by them too.
Should be, yeah. Their jail was just next to it. Was it? Yeah. Over SMU is where the jail is where they live every day. Holy crap. Really? Yeah.
Shit. In fact, there's still a tree there that one of the, supposedly one of the convict labourers planted as when he was a prisoner and the tree still resides in SMU. Hey, SMU students, your school is a prison.
Yeah. Let me guess, you think it's a prison still, right? Okay. Yeah. So the whole area is interesting. So I decided, oh, I would like to explore this story a little more. Yeah.
But again, why was it important? I mean, don't skip the subject. You talked about Indian convicts, right? But why would something like this be important? I'm really seriously asking. I'm not trying to trap you.
Sometimes people think I'm trying to trap. I'm not. I really want to understand. I want people who watch the show to understand why would that be important to me? As I said earlier, right?
Oh, history is not important. I don't know anything about me. I mean bollocks. You know, I don't hear it from you. It's important because so along Middle Road was actually known as Little Japan.
So this wasn't just. It was? It was called Little Japan, like a little India Chinatown. We actually had a Little Japan, which will still be around if things went differently.
But so over there is not just Khariki Sands. We had a big Japanese community in Singapore, actually. So there were tailor shops, carpentry shops, dentists. They were all there. Like, I can't imagine like a mini little India.
Middle Road. Yeah. The whole stretch. Wow. Wow. So the Khariki Sands were there. In fact, the brothel is right at where Bukis Junction is today.
The facade of Bukis Junction, they kept all the shop house. That is the brothel, which we don't know. So people are shopping under armor, buying their clothes. Wow, nice.
But you're talking about Bukis Street, that whole stretch where the. Yeah, Bukis Junction itself. Bukis Junction itself. Oh, you mean the shopping mall where they had the air conditioning walkway? Yes. That was. That is the brothel.
Oh, yeah. Which nobody knows because there's never going to be a signage that says Khariki Sands is to stay here. And people are like, what? Bukis Junction. You all were a brothel before, no? Okay. Yeah.
The good thing about that is that they managed to keep the architecture there still. So that's great. I applaud them for keeping it. It could have been easily gone. Yeah, okay. Yeah, but still there. Minus the red lanterns. Minus the red lanterns. Yeah.
Cool. So, okay. So maybe that's the reason why that was a Japanese red light district that then you had Bukis Street across, right? And it became our infamous Bukis Street back in the 60s, 70s.
And wow, I'm not talking about the time when Kuma was there for boom, boom, boom. Yeah, I'm talking about way before that. Maybe that's why, maybe because the influence all seemed to be congregating around there.
Maybe, maybe. I mean, there's a big gap in between. Yeah, definitely. Big gap. I don't know, man. Maybe that place is meant to be. Okay. Vibe, vibe. But today, no. There's no vibe there for this. I know that.
So what's the story about for this one? It's about two characters. One is a girl called Oseki who is sent from Japan who is tricked to be sent from Japan to Singapore thinking she's going to get married, but then she gets tricked to be a Khariki.
So she's trapped here and she wants to return back home to Japan. Sorry, curious. How do you spell K-Karayuki? K-A-R-A-Y-U-K-I. It sounds so strangely similar to karaoke. Yeah.
It does. Yeah. I was trying to clear the air about that one. So it's nothing to do with karaoke. Yeah. So, okay. So it's about this girl. Now, it doesn't sound very far-fetched because that's what's happening today too.
We're talking about sex trafficking. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So lots of that's happening in the world today. That's a massive problem. Yeah.
I think that was one of the intentions of the book to also show that, hey, we have progressed so much, but some things have not really progressed that much at all. Damn straight. Exactly.
And there's two characters. So the other one is an Indian convict labourer who's brought to Singapore to work on the streets and stuff like that and not really given like a very good life.
And how much have we progressed from there as well in Singapore? So I wanted to kind of compare that. Right. Okay.
I was just, you know, breezing through and looking at the stuff, how you write and your quotes and stuff. Wow. I mean, this is like a lot of work, right?
I mean, call me a dunce. The only thing I've ever done when it comes to writing is I contributed a story or not story, a letter to Felix Cheong's letter to my son. Oh, lovely.
So I wrote one. One of the pieces in there belonged to me. So, okay, maybe you can say I'm kind of a kind of published author. Yeah, you are. You are published.
Goodness. Yeah, I was. Yeah. It was just a contribution as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, it was. It was. I enjoy doing that.
But something like this, you know, and my sister writes as well and something like this. And I look at it and I go, my goodness, amount of work you got to put in and the style.
How would you describe your style? Hmm. I think a lot of people who read the book said that it's very cinematic. So I think that's because of my scriptwriting background. Yeah.
Okay. And I think as someone who writes, I actually don't read that many books like fiction novels. Really? Yeah.
So maybe growing up, I read a lot more. But nowadays, maybe like two books a year, perhaps. I read a lot of books, but they're more nonfiction actually.
Yeah. I mean, I don't know. There's something about people in film. I realize they like to read nonfiction stuff. Yeah. I like to read nonfiction stuff. I hardly read fiction, frankly.
Go ahead, please. You can whack the body to whenever you want. Okay. How does one actually write an award-winning novel?
Hmm. So for me, I never really had, sure I did scriptwriting, but I never really had, I never went for any class that taught me how to write a novel. So taking on this book, I had no idea how to do it.
So I actually approached it the same way I would write a script or like any of my projects really, which is to plan it out.
But that's you. That's me. If you were to give advice to a first-time writer who's yet to publish his first piece of work, what would you say to that guy?
I think for most people, they work a lot with rhythm in terms of habit. So for me, I do that a lot. So I need to write on an almost daily basis once I'm in the midst of like writing the writing part of the project.
So, and then you may be someone who has a day job and that might disrupt your writing kind of a habit per day. You might be don't have time, that kind of stuff.
So for me, what I did was in order to have this rhythm, I would, if my work starts at nine and I'm waking up at 7.30, and I know when I come back, I'm going to be tired.
So I would wake up at like five and write from five to seven or so daily. Wow. Two hours? Yeah, usually more. That's the minimum.
Yeah. So, and that would go on for, so the book took three years. Three years? This took three years? Yeah.
One year to research, one year to plan the story and one year to write.
Holy crap, man. Three years. It would be shorter if you were like a full time writer. Okay, I'm not going to write my book. Three years is too long, man.
It is too long. I think it should have been shorter.
Oh, wow. How about a film? What do you, in your opinion, your advice, first time filmmaker, what would your advice be to make a good film?
Wow. I think it'd be great if you can tell a story that is unique to Singapore.
Why? You know, I tell you honestly, man. Can I tell you from a consumer point of view? Yeah.
Sometimes we just like to stray away a bit from content that is largely Singapore. I think it's getting a little bit ridiculous. I'm sorry to say this, but I'm saying it.
It seems to me that including our own soul, only lonely major broadcaster, seem to only want to have something that is beneficial to society and is Singapore based.
I mean, look, I understand. I understand the virtue and the value behind something like that. But shouldn't we like explore other things?
It can be explored in a different way. So if you look at films like Parasite, that is about Korea and the living conditions.
Oh, here we go. The comparison you're going to make. I know where you're going with this.
It's important because I think that is the only thing that we have as an upper hand against anyone else.
Because if you're going to look at technical aspects of things, we are behind if you want to compare certain things.
This is a lot of films. But when it comes to stories, no one can tell the same story that you have in Singapore.
So that is one way to have a bit of upper hand in terms of comparison.
Okay. Since you've brought up Parasite, let's talk about crazy rich Asians. I mean, that's not entirely Singapore, isn't it?
But I mean, that's not considered Singapore.
Okay. So it's a cultural phenomenon, isn't it? It's not a Singapore. That's what I'm trying to say. Why can't we think outside of that?
That one is unique to America. It's about American-born Chinese.
Yeah, unique to America. But Singapore was also featured inside the movie, isn't it?
American-born Chinese feature, okay, okay, we're done by American-born Chinese.
But acted by people that are not American-born Chinese.
And that our talent on that side across the coast, oops, sorry, talent across from there, moved over to the US.
This is what I mean. When we do something here, must it really be telling a story about Singapore?
Why can't we write a story that is a story that doesn't have to stem out of, say, our history, for example?
You know, why must it be about that? Why can't it be about a story that is completely, you know, outside of the boundaries of our culture?
I think you can. Yeah. But there's just too much of that going on. You know where I'm coming from?
In fact, a lot of the grunts usually lean a bit more, like if you have a Singapore stanza, oh great.
See? This is what I mean. This is what I mean. That way, we're narrowing down our creativity, right?
That process of thinking of a new idea, it narrows it down. Oh, we can't get a grant if we're not going to do it this way, we're going to do it this way.
And then it stymies a lot of your right brain, man. Again, my opinion, and I don't give a shit, I'm saying it, you know.
Really, I really think, because I'm a consumer. I'm not about to go and make a film tomorrow. No, I'm not.
It's just that this is what I want to enjoy. I want to see that we can think out in the box, we can do something different.
What is it? Hell, I don't know. I'm not a filmmaker. But as a consumer, I'm saying it.
I think it's getting a little bit too staid for years. As far back as I can remember, it's always been about, yeah, you know, it's about the history of this and this and this and that.
Even the documentaries these days are based on these sort of things, right?
Nothing wrong with it, man. Nothing wrong with it. But I think we need to really do something fresh, something new.
Stop circulating around, you know, based on the same genres, you know? Yeah?
Same thing when we have artists nowadays. More often than not, for certain things, they're still circulating around the same people.
We're not getting a lot of fresh faces, but when we do, they're not really up to standard.
Again, this is me. That's why I think as a consumer, and as a consumer, I can voice my opinion. Yeah.
So you're saying that, again, to make a good film, do something that's within the scope, within their...
What they can relate to, relate with?
Something that you want to say is extremely important. Not just to entertain, but if you have a message to share, that always helps a great deal.
To me, I think that's important. Because you can do both, you can entertain and you can have a message. Thank you. At least that one came out.
Yeah, so that'd be nice, but yeah, I think filmmaking is tough, but nowadays filmmaking is way easier than like 20 years ago,
because everyone can film stuff now with their phones. So it's a real different thing.
Well, you know, this is where I will say this also. Film stuff with their phones, you're right.
A little great creative stuff I see coming out on TikTok and stuff, right? I'm not on TikTok because mine's always a long ass show.
And mine is not for those who have some attention issues. Yeah. People who can't just sit in their backsides and listen to good shit.
You know what I mean? Yeah. So this is where there's a problem as well. I mean, I know short films, you know,
but this is getting a bit ridiculous because it's too damn short now, especially when you go to social media and you look at all these things, right?
And I think it's sad because people don't really sit down and enjoy things anymore.
They just want it quick and fast and everything's quick and fast, including your own leisure and entertainment. I mean, it's really sad.
Yeah, I agree. I'm getting too old for this shit. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. Let's discuss that elephant in the room.
Which is the reason, initially, why I called you to come here. And that is to tell us a story.
Please don't tell us in the same fashion that you told the others. I'm pretty sure you can sense that this is not the same kind of interview
because compared to the ones that you've had before, right? For the same subject. Let's talk about that. You collect artifacts. Okay.
It's a hobby. Yeah. Right. How long ago have you started this hobby of yours? Maybe like six years ago. Why?
So for me, wow, why do I collect? So I started collecting old video game consoles just to get back like, oh, I had that when I was 12.
Now I want to buy it back. Oh, you mean like the Sega Saturn and oh, wow, wow, wow. Okay. Okay.
So I started with that and then it went on to, oh, I want to get back all the toys I used to have because I don't have them anymore.
I don't have any toys. And then it came to like, oh, I like collecting like I needed all furniture to put.
So basically memorabilia. Yeah. Like old stuff. Yeah. So you started with memorabilia, not artifacts. Yeah.
Okay. Okay. Okay. And then as I went along, I, you know, after you collect your toys, then you complete the whole collection.
Okay. I'm done. Move on to the next thing. And so eventually I came up, chanced upon many different things.
I have this collection of old vintage medical equipment from the 1960s in Singapore.
Wait, wait. Yeah. What are we talking about? Old bandages and stuff? All like the medical instruments.
So like, like what? So you mean you mean you mean syringes and scalpel, scalpels? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's kind of stuff. Yeah. What? So why do it is weird, man. She's like Mike Myers or what? It's cool because I like, I'm interested in the history behind the items.
So these items came from a clinic that used to be in Singapore and have locked road in the 60s, 70s. Okay.
They also treated a lot of the victims during the Bokeh Hosea fire. Okay. Around there.
And then so this instrument belonged to a doctor. He then retired when he's really old. The shophouse looks really cool.
And so when I got instruments, I was like looking more into it and found they were actually really interesting.
So. Okay. Interesting because, because why? Because it was used to treat people like from the victims and casualties from the Bokeh Hosea fire.
Yes. And in general, this doctor was really cool because he practiced till really, to really old and then he passed away. And his grandson took over the place.
So he's old school. Yeah. It's old school. Yeah. And I think what's cool is that a lot of instruments were used for the delivery of babies.
So back then, I'm guessing you could go to your clinics to do that. And so, yeah, so the instruments, most of them were dead actually.
So, oh dude, are you sure you're okay, man? I like collecting old postcards, anything old from.
I can understand that man. Come on, syringes and scouples and stuff. I mean, used on other people already.
Wow. Look at that face. He just went, yo, yo.
It's part of our history. I like the thing. I think it's interesting.
I can understand that it's kind of interesting because it's part of our history. But these are medical instruments, man. Used on other people already.
Despite the, okay, you have no taboo over that. Okay, let's move on. Let's move on.
So from memorabilia to stuff like medical instruments. And then what else? Other than old postcards, old food signages, those kind of more normal.
Oh, food signages. You must live in a freaking mansion to put all these things up.
Yeah, so they're all around the house. Oh boy. Okay.
And eventually I found these items from Carousel. They were pre World War II items. So they look kind of like this kind of stuff.
Okay, what is this? This is a... It's got a name on the corner here. Yeah, it says Vico Gustav.
So this is a work booklet that someone would have in the 1930s in Germany. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Check this out.
This has got a swastika there. It's a Nazi swastika.
So pre World War II when Hitler was slowly getting into power, he came up with certain rules where everyone had to go to work and stuff like that.
So this is a work booklet that someone would have and inside there, they would stamp and say like, okay, I went to work this week.
I went to work this week. So it's a way of checking. So it's like a punch card. Yeah, it's like a punch card in a way.
I'm sorry, I don't have my glasses on. Can you see this? What year is this? 1896.
Oh, this is his birthday. 1896. My goodness me. Looks ominous, man.
He looks so ominous and he didn't really work very hard.
There's only one stamp here, man. He's going to work one day and then what happens next? Fired.
I hope he was fired. Nothing worse than that. I mean, you know, well, hang on a second. There are stamps here, man.
No, no, he worked really hard. Cool. He worked really hard. Okay, okay, hang on. Oh, wow. Yeah, there you go. There you go. The entries here. Yeah.
So what's cool about this is that... Wow, look at this. Can these guys see this? Okay, here we go. Can we see this? Yeah, okay.
Check this out. These are stamps. These are work stamps. Right? And this is a workbook. Okay.
So what's cool about this booklets is that it came with a lot of other stuff. In particular, it belonged to two brothers.
It belongs to two brothers and it wasn't just like work booklets. It included immigration documents, family documents.
So the two brothers, one brother was named Wolfgang and his younger brother, Waldemar. Okay, so Wolfgang and Waldemar, they are German.
Correct, yes. Okay. Okay. Okay. Go on, please.
So I thought these booklets were really cool to look at. So I was like, wow, I was looking through and kind of saying like, oh, I could actually trace what the brothers were doing from 1930s, 40s, 50s to the 80s.
Because the booklets really took them throughout the last 50, 60 years during that period. So I was like, wow, it'd be great for them to have this back because it was a lot of documents that I think the family would love to see.
Because especially the immigration documents had photographs of the family, the kids. So I was like, okay, that'd be nice to return it back to the family.
But it's always like an idea in my head. That's nice to do, but I might not do it. So eventually I did do it like a month later.
So I started to search like the names, Waldemar Shack, which is the surname Wolfgang Shack. But it's impossible to find Google unless they did something pretty significant in life.
Yeah, no, in Google. They were a musician or a dancer or something like that. Okay, but it'll pop up. So it didn't pop up. So I searched around for many months. I think it took me like eight months or so.
How do you eventually find them if Google didn't really work, man?
So I had to hunt down the, not hunt down, track down the... That's fine, man. Say hunt down if you want to.
Track down the children of Waldemar. So Waldemar has four or five children with different names.
And then so I would search their names and then I wouldn't find anything. I would search on Google, Facebook, LinkedIn.
I was desperate. I was searching on Instagram, everything I can hold on. So if the kids are still around, they would be in their sixties.
And because of that, they may not be on social media. So I knew, okay, I may not get them there.
So I was searching around until one day I managed to find an Excel sheet document.
Right.
While searching names because I felt they might be in Australia because one immigration document said they migrated to Perth in the sixties.
So I thought, okay, they might be there. So I was searching things like Michael Shack, Perth, and then nothing pops up.
So I think, oh, maybe they moved around in Australia. So I searched like Michael Shack, Brisbane, Michael Shack, Melbourne, yeah.
And all these things and not just for Michael, but for all the different siblings and anything I can get my hands on.
And eventually I got this Excel document that I could not read, but I managed to open it in some software and a lot of words came up.
And in these words were Michael Shack and the words Queensland Rail. So I knew, okay, Queensland Rail is in Brisbane.
Right. So there's a chance he might be there. And so I reached out to Queensland Rail. They didn't reply me thinking I'm crazy.
Eventually, a few weeks later, I reached out to...
See, she's talking about the sirens going by.
Yeah, I think they're coming on to me.
So I reached out to their Instagram and strangely the Instagram person replied me saying, oh, hi, Wesley. Yeah, let us look into it.
We'll get back to you. I'm like, what? You're going to help me, Instagram person of Queensland Rail?
She's probably like intern or something. So I was like, wow. So the person reached out and found Michael Shack.
So Michael used to work. I mean, he works. He still works for the Queensland Rail.
Wow. Yeah. And then that's how I kind of linked with him.
And even talking to Michael, it took a while because Michael was a bit more apprehensive or like a bit worried.
Like, you know, I was some kind of scammer saying, hi, hi, all this stuff for you. Yeah, I'm sure.
And I'm just going to scam you. It is dude from Singapore, man. Who's this crazy guy?
Yeah, exactly. And all that. So it took a while to convince him. Like, he knew that.
So I took a while to convince him. And then when he said, okay, yeah, you can meet me.
So me and my wife, we flew to Brisbane and went to meet him and shot a small video and then give him back all the items.
And how did he receive them? I mean, was he elated?
He was. So he never seen any of the material before. Right.
In one of the booklets was a picture of his uncle, which would be Waldemar's brother Wolfgang. Wolfgang. Yeah.
And that was the first time he saw how Wolfgang looked like from the photo. Wow. For some reason.
And the reason why he hasn't seen Wolfgang is because in the 60s, Waldemar migrated to Australia.
He had a family, had five kids. Right. Wolfgang, the other brother, stayed back until he passed away in the late 80s.
So while he was working there, he was during the separation of Germany with East and West. He was there.
He couldn't really fly out or something. And also his brother couldn't visit him.
So he was, he was, did you know whether or not Wolfgang was in the East part of Germany or was he from West Germany?
He was in the East, I believe. Oh dear. Yeah. He was in the East. Oh my goodness. Part of the Eastern Bloc. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was really couldn't do much. Oh yeah. Hell yeah.
He wasn't until the Berlin Wall fell and then the brother in Australia, he was pretty old, went to find him for one, for his last time.
And that's the last time they ever met. Oh wow. So it's kind of cool. And things in terms of the material, he found it cool.
He shared it with his siblings as well. They wrote to me saying, hi Wesley, thanks for sending all this.
It's really nice to see, you know, because their father has passed away.
So having all this material and finding out, oh wow, dad used to do this, dad used to do that, which dad never told them.
They found it very fascinating. Okay. Let's pull out that picture. Kai, the one that says the purchase of pre-World War II items.
Yeah, that's the one. So that is his son, right? Correct. Yeah. Michael. Michael. Yeah. Michael. Okay. That's cool, man. That's cool.
You can put it up a little longer Kai. Don't worry about it. Don't be shy. Oh, it's there still. Okay. I'm sorry. Me being stupid.
Okay. Have a good look. So that's the workbook with the picture of Woldemar. That's Wolfgang actually. Oh, that's Wolfgang. Oh, okay.
That's a brother. Okay. That's cool. That's cool. Okay. Wow. Wow. I guess I was really lucky because the chances of actually finding him is very low.
It just so happened, I mean, I guess this intern on Queensland Rail was really hardworking and decided to go like, wow.
I mean, that guy deserves an award, man. Yeah. I have no idea who he or she is. Get him a tiger, dude.
I mean, come on. I mean, he really, yeah, he really reached. He didn't have to, you know. Most people won't.
I mean, if you're in charge of the Queensland Rail Instagram, you're probably the intern doing media stuff or something.
Yeah. Yeah. It's nothing to do with you. Yeah. And yet you went on to ask your boss, hi boss, I have this. Can I, who do I contact? You know.
Yeah. So I think. Well, that's really cool, man. It's really, really cool. I see that one with a Nazi iron eagle.
Yeah. There you go. Oh gosh. What the heck is this? So this is part of my collection.
This is a work, not work booklet, something a medic, a German soldier medic in World War II would have with them.
And inside they would teach you how to see to someone who is injured. So if you have your arm blown off, what do you do?
If you have your toes cut off. Kill him. What do you do? What kind of bandages? Chop it off.
That's what the Nazis would say, wouldn't they? So it's kind of cool book.
And I got this when I was in Germany, actually, many years ago. And there was a book, a book fair, like a flea market.
Yeah. For a whole pile of like old books. But most of the old books are like your normal old books, like in it blighted, you know, it's there.
And I was just looking through and I found this. I was like, what is this doing here? So I bought it for like two bucks and I brought it home.
I just, I just, I just, I think it's a nice piece of history. It is, yeah.
I actually love the color of the book, that light blue color. It's a strange, strange thing to like. But I thought it's a nice blue. Yeah.
What have you got? There's transparency here as well. It goes over. Well, you got to say, you got to give them credit, man.
I mean, at least they got themselves really organized. Amazing. This is for a Nazi medic.
That's a medic. Well, I can't see whether it's Nazi or not, because even back then the Wehrmacht, which is the regular army, they have the same symbol.
Yeah. Unless you see the SS and the deaf head, right? Then perhaps, yeah. This is so cool, man. Thanks so much for sharing this with me.
What's the other stuff? I brought some stuff here that's kind of interesting. So these are all, okay, not that interesting.
This is something linked to my medical stuff that I kind of like. So these are all invoices from the early nineties of dispensaries or clinics in Singapore.
And it's kind of cool. So this invoice is from. This is not an invoice. I think this is more like a prescription. Yeah, like a prescription receipt kind of thing.
Medical office chemists, drugists and opticians. Dr. P.E., I think it's pronounced this way, Cray MD. Yeah, well, check this out, man.
And what's cool about it is that from this like prescription invoice thing, you can tell what the person is being prescribed.
So I think that's the writing of like sodium bromide, which is something people in the past who gets prescribed if you have like, for example, epilepsy.
Something that's not done today because if you eventually found out, okay, it's not the best thing because it has some disadvantages to it.
They use it today for tranquilizers. Oh, gosh. I mean, it's like, okay, what did people used to do before?
For people with mental illness back then, they used to bore a hole in the center of your skull or something like that. What's it called?
What's it called in Ukrainian? What's it called? Lobotomy. Yeah, they call their robotic crazy people back then.
And people used to suffer so much. Prescriptions accurately prepared. The dispensary limited.
I tell you, you're right. All stuff is cool. You look at even the design and even the fonts.
So much effort went into it, right? So much effort. And it's not freaking Photoshop, man.
It's all handwork, really. Thanks so much for sharing that. Really, really.
So what's your next plan? Anything planned? Anything exciting you'd be doing? Like maybe a new film, a movie?
Do one that's action packed or something, man? I don't know.
I would love to do something that's still history based. So I'm still seeing if I can explore something there.
I know I won't be writing a book that's not in the plans. Right.
But I would like to do something a bit more film related because I think the last few years I did a bit more writing than film related stuff.
So I think it's nice to go back to that. But I'm always looking for new opportunities. I would love to do something music related.
Something that's more theatrical in its own life. Or more life in a sense would be cool.
OK. Yeah. So those are the things I'm thinking about. But yeah, I think exciting times, I guess.
You play any instruments? I used to play quite a fair bit, but then I've not over the last 10 years.
Maybe it's time for you to start picking them up again, man, and then start working on a musical.
Something like, I don't know, please don't do it. I mean, no, your typical musical kind of thing.
You know, I mean, you know, I was so glad when School of Rock came out and stuff. Right.
You know, and that one with Tom Cruise. Did you see that one? What's it called now? Rock of Ages.
I haven't seen it. Tom Cruise as a rock lead singer. Wow. Geez. Great. Good. Great. That movie was brilliant.
You know, Rock of Ages. I mean, do stuff like that, man.
I know your typical Rogers and Hammerstein's, you know, and then your OK, Webbers, Lloyd Webbers fine, you know.
But then again, we got too much dust. You had your Timmy some dotties, you know, I mean, a bit of Greece is cool.
You know, stuff like that. Something out of the box, man. You know, out of the box.
You know, I mean, let's get away from the usual. It's so boring. God, really. Yeah.
Anyway, it's great having you on the show. Thank you so much for sharing.
Thank you so much, Chris. No, no, no, not at all, man. Pleasure is all mine.
You know, I hope I didn't throw you off. No, all good. All good.
I just wanted to hear. But yeah, I like to do this. I like to collect stories and I like to collect people's opinions.
Yeah. Without any disrespect to their own opinions, of course, you know, and I will always stay in mind.
And I really I'm one guy all these years. I've been an advocate for let's get things better here in Singapore, not just for the arts and not just for the for entertainment, but also for sports.
You know, I mean, having seven seven new but that question is really quite unforgivable.
I mean, yeah, I think there's so much we can do. I'm happy for our SEA Games athletes, for example.
You know, I think fantastic stuff, you know, and Rui Yong. Shout out to you too, man. Great job, dude. Really.
I mean, sharing water with you. Yeah, I mean, my goodness. He's a stand up guy.
I mean, I met Rui Yong. He was on one of my shows in my previous chat show before. Yeah, you know, it's a stand up guy.
And this is these things that make me really happy. See Singapore stepping up, you know, and how we've been winning our goals.
So it's not just about the arts. It's just about everything. Yeah. I think we need to really think beyond whatever we're used to and do something that's really different.
There's no reason why we can't do a career, a South Korea that is. There's no reason why we can't do that. Right. So reason why we can't come up with talents that can rival the rest of the world.
I don't want to. I don't want to believe that. I don't want to believe that we can't do better just because we're a little tiny little red dot on the on the global map.
I mean, no, man, we can go more. We can do more. We can go further. You go much, much further.
But again, thank you so much for being on CHC. And we'll. Hmm. I noticed. Do you need me to say I will say do it this way, Kai.
Thank you so much for watching CHC. And I hope to see you again soon.
We've got two more episodes to go before we call it a day for season one. And I'd like to thank you guys for being with us so far.
But then again, please, whatever you do, stay safe. Think out of the box. Do something worthwhile if your life, if you love something that you really love to do, go and do it.
Don't stop yourselves until next time. This is Chris Hansen saying see you again. Bye bye.