What on earth is wrong with you?
I mean, I'm sitting here marveling at the fact that,
you know, this adventurous sense of yours,
you know, risking yourself being thrown
into a North Korean gulag.
Now this other place.
Soviet gulag.
Yeah, a Soviet gulag, when Soviet Union is already gone,
and be tortured by a North Korean prison guard,
tickling the balls of a spicy kimchi
for the rest of your life.
Ooh.
In my studio today, I've got this person.
I'm meeting for the first time, I kid you not.
I swear, really, I've never met this guy before.
He's actually now seated on my right.
I'm not gonna pan the camera to him yet,
but I gotta tell you the reason why this young man
is in the CCB TV studio right now,
on my show, The Chris Hansen Conversation.
He is what we would call an intrepid traveler.
This is the episode that I'm coining as that one
with a big kahunas.
And I will tell you why this guy
has probably got bigger kahunas than me,
as the story goes, because I like to collect stories,
and this guy's got stories to tell.
And with me in the studio right now is John Yao.
Welcome to the show.
Hello.
Thanks for being here, man.
Thank you for inviting me.
You look so young.
I am jealous.
What the fuck?
How old are you, man?
You look young as well.
No, no, no, no.
Definitely, definitely.
I'm not kidding.
You heard the story of Pinocchio?
No, it's getting longer, my friend.
No, it's the same.
Really, I mean it, I mean it.
Thank you for the compliment.
But you look really, really young.
How old are you?
I'm 30.
I'm 39.
That's not that fucking young.
Going to be 29.
Going to be 29?
Okay, that's young.
30, not that young anymore.
You know this friend of ours that we know,
his name is Ben?
Right.
He's no longer young, he's an old cock.
Yeah, here we go.
All right, so you're the intrepid traveler.
I'm calling you the intrepid traveler.
I've heard from certain quarters,
and of course from our mutual friend about you,
this is the reason why you're here.
And because I've heard that you really
make it such a habit to get around.
Yeah, kind of, actually.
Can it be said that you actually live out of your luggage?
Actually, to be honest, I was actually a homely boy.
So to put a long story short,
I try to make it a corner line.
No, no, no, you can give me a long story, man.
This is what it's all about.
It's a long story.
It's okay, I collect stories.
So I used to be a homely boy.
I liked to stay at home.
And when I was in secondary school,
I didn't like to go out at all.
I was very like the exact opposite of what I was,
I would consider myself today.
So because I didn't like to talk,
I didn't like to socialize, even at school,
I wouldn't exactly talk to anyone.
And I would have recess sometimes, most of the time alone.
Yeah, it's pretty much just about my kind of lifestyle
in secondary school.
So I would just go home after school
and my mom would be at home.
She's a housewife.
So we would be like, okay, we watch our own TV.
I watch her TV.
So yeah, so she liked to watch Cantonese shows.
So that's where I would know my past time.
What's my past time, people ask me actually.
Watching Cantonese serials.
We're like, song hoi tan ah.
Something like that, you know.
Sen wang zhu la ma.
Follow fart and all this.
Right.
So, and moving on to poly,
that was when things got a little bit better.
I started to talk a little bit more.
So 17 was like for many people is like,
whoa, they're really very prime
into this social life and everything.
For me, that was the beginning.
Right. Yeah.
And it wasn't until a few years later,
which was about back in 2018,
then I started this traveling bug
actually started hitting me.
How so? How did it all begin?
So before this, I was always at home watching YouTube
about travel.
Oh right, okay.
Yeah, about travel stuff.
So, but I wasn't interested to like,
to go there, like no.
Just to, I'm fine with like sitting on my couch
and watching about it.
So this time in 2018, I was actually working.
I moved out home.
So I was doing my, with like,
I was renting a room for some other people.
And then I met this friend, a Vietnamese friend at work.
So he actually like,
show me to go to Vietnam with him and his friends.
So he said like, okay, we're gonna take care of you.
Don't have worry about anything.
We'll just do the, you just take your money, you know?
But your brain or don't even bring,
we'll just, you take care of you.
The language barrier is not there.
It sounds as if you're gonna be trafficked, man.
Right. Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah.
I mean, I mean, think about it.
You know, you just give me the money.
Then you don't need to use your head.
You just travel with us, right?
And then we will take care of you.
How old were you then again?
That was five years ago.
I was 24.
Okay. No, then it's not trafficking.
Don't worry about it.
They go age already.
Right.
So yeah, 23.
Yeah. Okay.
So when there, actually I was like,
I didn't want to go.
Because I was looking at,
at the time I had a very tight budget for everything.
I was saving this money that I was earning for my school.
Right. Because I dropped out of poly.
So yeah, I actually dropped out of poly.
So technically I'm still an old level student.
Oh. Yeah.
That's my higher school education.
So guess what, man?
I, it's me too.
Also old level student.
Really? Well, yeah.
Well, yeah.
But I've never made it poly.
See, there's a difference.
You made it to poly.
Barely. Barely.
Nobody wanted me.
Yeah. Okay.
So you dropped out of poly.
Me? Don't mind me asking.
What's the reason for you dropping out of poly?
It's a stupid reason.
There's no reason.
Actually, that's the worst thing.
Because I didn't like to study and that's it.
I go into aviation.
It's like a hybrid between aircraft modules
and airport modules.
Yeah.
Hybrid.
So, but I wasn't, I just didn't like to study.
It's a pretty good course, right?
It's good.
People would kill to get in there.
Right. So totally wasted.
You know, I just didn't want to study and that's it.
Okay.
So I dropped out after about three years.
Right.
I think one was the worst decision of my life.
Three years?
Three years, yeah.
I flunked two modules.
So I was supposed to be,
it was supposed to be 3.5.
Right.
So I flunked two.
I decided to do, yeah.
Geez, but you were almost at the finishing line.
Right.
Okay.
So yeah.
Okay, not judging you.
I'm not judging you.
No, no, I know.
I know it's okay.
Yeah.
Even if you do, I'm fine.
I know that you-
No, no, no.
I'm in no position to judge.
But please do continue.
So essentially that was the path I took.
So after this, after NS, I decided, okay, I have to work.
Right.
And things with family weren't doing too well.
Okay.
In terms of most aspects.
Yeah.
So I decided to move out.
Right.
And I gave this money for my study again.
Right.
It's three years late, but for, I thought to myself,
I'm still trying to make up for it, right?
Right.
So, and then after one year of a full-time job,
my parents needed this money.
So I was moved, I moved out away from them.
Okay.
But they actually made a few phone calls to say,
you know, actually, can you help us?
We actually made this money and my savings was gone.
Right.
That was the first time my savings had about 10K.
Right.
It's the very first milestone in my life, but I give it.
So anyway, so it was back to square one.
Okay.
And what led up to this Vietnam trip was like, okay.
So a few months after that,
I was saving this healthy sum amount of money again.
I was devastated, but life has to move on.
Yeah, pretty damn good saver, man.
So did it again.
And my friend, this was the time
when my Vietnamese friend asked me,
okay, do you want to go Vietnam?
Right.
And I was looking at air fees.
There was like $110.
It's so cheap, right?
Yeah.
With respect, but at that time it was like 110.
Like, that's so fucking expensive.
Yeah, okay.
So I don't know, going to trade the food itself,
it would be like four or 500.
Yep.
That's the amount I'm looking at.
So there's like half, about half amount of my savings.
So I was like actually hesitating a lot
to whether to go for this trip.
Yeah.
And somehow he managed to convince me,
and okay, I will just go.
And I wasn't expecting anything at all.
Nothing that was impressed or, you know, life changing.
Right.
I just went there, everything changed.
That was how this travel bug came.
Okay, what changed?
So the way of life in Vietnam when it first there,
it was so different because I mean,
I read all the news and all,
but to experience it is another story.
Which part of Vietnam do you like me as?
Ho Chi Minh.
Ho Chi Minh, okay.
So I met him in Ho Chi Minh.
He wanted to fetch me.
Right.
And then we took a bus about a few five hours, right?
Right.
It's like a little province outside Ho Chi Minh.
Okay, okay.
Yeah, so his friend lived there.
So we took a bus, five hours, reached about two a.m.
And then we had to take like some kind of a van,
mini van to go even deeper into the province.
Right.
And then 20 minutes motorbike when his friends came.
They just went like two a.m. there was nothing.
There was just a cemetery there.
So it was got a creepy start.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that was like, wow, this is so different.
Yeah.
So there was a start of everything.
Okay, so what do you enjoy about that?
You mean, okay, you enjoy the fact that you got away
from Ho Chi Minh city and you ended up somewhere
where the locals really live.
Yeah.
And then you got to experience, you know,
what a country truly is like, am I right?
Yeah.
And that gave you that travel bug.
Yes.
Despite the fact, okay, so basically you discover then
that based on this first experience,
that is because there's an adventurer in you.
Would you call yourself an adventurer,
an adventurous person?
At the time, no.
Right.
At the time, yes.
Okay, so right now you can attest that it is now a fact
that John Yao is quite the adventurer.
Right.
Right, okay.
So this is where I need to, I'm sorry,
I don't want to steal thunder away from you
and I promise you that I'm not trying to do so.
But the reason why I need to stop you here
is because of these things on the plate.
Now I'm gonna ask you, man, throughout,
there are more questions for me to ask you
about your travels, yeah,
but this is gonna be the first one.
Okay.
Throughout your travels,
you've had cuisine from different countries.
What was the weirdest thing you've eaten?
Weirdest.
Well, this one will take a little bit of time.
Take your time.
Weirdest.
I've definitely not been,
I've not really been to Southeast Asia,
so I wouldn't definitely not those little incest,
no one near that.
Okay, okay, okay.
I'm gonna say something that was very different from-
Well, you've been to Vietnam, though.
Vietnam is part of Southeast Asia, isn't it?
Go to try those little things like that.
Street food at most.
Street food, okay.
So you've had street food.
Yes, definitely.
So now, but you are Singaporean, born, bred, raised
Singaporean that completed your national service
as you said, right?
Do you know what these are on the table, on this plate?
It's like hebia, right?
No, it's not.
I don't know, it looks like hebia,
but I'm not sure what it is.
It looks like hebia.
Actually, I never thought of it that way,
but since you said it, it is not hebia.
This is an Indian dish, okay?
It's actually a snack.
It's called vade.
Vade, okay.
And it's sponsored, and this is where I gotta look
at the camera, it's sponsored by Gordon's Vade's.
Thank you again.
Every time I have a guest on the show,
dear old Vijay from Gordon's Vade's,
you can see it's flashing the screen.
These are the fluffiest, crispiest damn vades in the land.
And you see on the screen,
please contact gordonvade.com or WhatsApp
at the number on the screen.
This is what I'm gonna ask you.
The reason why I ask you this question,
because you, as a Singaporean,
a guy who's been traveling so intrepidly
doesn't know that this is part and parcel
of what we have in Singapore.
I wouldn't say claim that this is a Singaporean dish,
but it's certainly available,
because this is where the melting pot of cultures, right?
So I wanna challenge you in this.
Take a piece.
Okay.
And take a bite, okay?
You don't have to eat the shell,
you can just go for the flour, okay?
And then take a bite off that chili, man.
I'll do it with you.
Okay.
Okay, I hope you can take this.
Cheers, mate, cheers.
Take a bite off.
How do you find the vade, good?
It is good.
It is good, right?
It's not too, this texture is just right.
Just right, huh?
Okay, great.
Enjoy it, mate.
You can eat during the show.
Don't worry about it, go right ahead.
This is Gordon's Vade's one more time.
Thank you so very much.
Really giving you air time, because we love you guys.
Every time I do a show,
and there are vades on my desk in the studio.
So thank you so very much.
VJ, love you, man.
Love you loads.
And I'm glad you're enjoying that.
Really.
Okay, please go on munching away.
This is really the best vade you can find across the land.
Now, okay, so,
you said,
hardly go around Southeast Asia, right?
You hardly go around Southeast Asia.
So, you've been traveling outside of the region.
Outside, of course, of Ho Chi Minh City.
Okay.
And wherever else within,
after the boundaries of the city in Vietnam.
Where have you been?
In Vietnam itself,
just that time was about a five days trip.
Four and a half, I would say.
So we went to Ho Chi Minh,
and his province for about two days.
And then we went back to Ho Chi Minh for two days.
So it was a very short trip.
Right, and what happened there after?
You mean after the trip?
Yeah, after Ho Chi Minh, what do you do?
I mean, how do you then,
did you decide that I'm going to be traveling?
Actually not quite yet.
But it was like a spark.
Right.
Yeah, so after I came back,
so okay, over there I export the village life.
I got to know how it really functioned.
Right.
Yeah, so his province is a very like farm family.
Right.
So his friend lives in kind of like a farm style.
Right.
They were like chickens, cows.
So you stayed on the farm?
Yeah. Okay.
Two days, and then Ho Chi Minh two days.
And when I came back, so okay,
something a little bit changed.
Actually, you know, good traveling,
like, you know, it's very interesting for me.
It's something that,
it changed me.
Definitely.
In what way?
Like, okay, is Singapore like really the kind of place
that I want to stay?
You know, that was the first thought
that came when I came back from Vietnam.
Right.
Yeah, is this a place that I see myself forever?
Or do I just want to go back to my couch
and just read about news from my couch?
Right.
It's not something that, okay,
maybe I should be more active.
I'm quite interested to actually explore like,
you know, places of different culture or regions.
Right.
Actually what they're doing in this very place at this time.
Sure.
So that was in 2018.
And during June, it was announced that
the Trump Kim Submit would actually take place in Singapore.
Yes.
Yeah, so, and before that,
before the announcement came out,
actually I was looking at them.
Okay, what places should I go this year?
What are some of the nice, like,
unique places I can visit?
Yeah.
So North Korea came out.
Yeah.
Right.
It was ever, it was advertised, you know,
we are having the 70th anniversary.
So, you know, like this,
communist countries or socialist,
they really take this anniversary very seriously.
Wait, wait, advertised where?
North Korea.
It was like a website, traveling website.
But it was not advertised in any other travel company
or travel agent here in Singapore.
It's like in a blog, no, not in Singapore.
No, okay.
So you discovered about this online.
Something like a blog, yeah, from a blog.
Travel blog.
Okay.
So like recommendations.
Travel blog, right.
Yeah, recommendations, okay.
So travel, come and visit communist countries this year.
In a way like that, you know.
Yeah.
That's a yeah.
Okay.
And then somehow sparked an interest in you.
What the fuck, bro?
I mean, okay, I mean, look, okay.
I can understand if I get on a travel blog.
I love to travel too.
Don't get me the wrong way, man.
I mean, I'm an advocate for people.
Get out of this country.
Go out there and explore the world, you know?
But if I see something, right, like,
hey, come visit North Korea,
and I go, fat fucking chance, man.
You're not gonna find me in fucking North Korea.
You're outta your freaking mind.
Now why?
Why?
I think like I've always been interested in,
so when I saw it, I was like,
I had the same reaction, you know.
It was interesting, but what the fuck?
Like who asks you to go to?
Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah.
I get you.
So at that time, I was reading it up,
and actually it kind of like appealed to me
because I've always been interested in Soviet history
and the World War II, things like that.
Okay, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Wait, I'm gonna stop you there.
You've always been interested in Soviet history.
Right.
The Soviet Union.
This is one young man who fucking knows the term,
the Soviet Union, for those younger ones
about your age even probably won't even know
what the fuck the USSR was all about.
But I can understand when you say World War II,
I'm a big, big, big, kind of a big history buff
on the World War II European Theater, okay?
You can ask me anything about it, I can tell you, okay?
But the Soviet Union, bro, I mean, are you okay?
Maybe not.
That was what I thought, you know?
Like people, I told my friends,
like when I finally decided to go there,
which in itself was a process.
Wait, wait, you went to the Soviet Union
when it was the Soviet Union?
No, no, no, no, no, not yet.
My God, you would have been too young.
I wish.
You would have been too young.
The wall came down during Reagan and Thatcher's time.
But if it go to a place that is still Soviet, even now.
Really?
Right, there is the existent place in the world.
Oh. That is still.
Okay, okay, let's rewind back a little bit.
Now, I wanna hear about the Soviet Union story,
but let's go back to like why the fuck North Korea?
Right, so about Soviet history and things like that.
So it was a, it's something that I feel like
it's more unique for me because I'm not someone,
I realize that I'm not someone who wants to go to places
like US, London, Paris, this, this kind of.
It's very ho-hum, huh?
For me, it's more, not that it's not good
or I want to boast myself as something.
It's cliche already.
It's cliche for me.
Yeah, yeah.
So I want it's places that no one goes.
Right.
But not because to boast that, oh, I've been here.
Okay. No, not that.
Okay.
But more like what exactly is going on in these places?
Okay.
So why I know people with, like I feel more,
there's more uniqueness in this kind of places.
It's more, a lot of things that,
a story is a way to be told,
but no one is there to tell the stories.
No one is there to know what's even going on here.
So I want to know, I don't want to know what's,
I mean, there are plenty of places like that
in those regions that no one goes.
Right.
And not explore.
So just really curious to, you know, in that direction.
Go off the beaten track.
Right.
Okay. Right.
So that is your reason of wanting to get your ass
into North Korea.
Yeah.
To come back home for new ass.
Yes.
I mean, come on, dude.
I mean, they could have ripped you apart, man.
Okay. What happened?
You, did you eventually go?
Yes, I did.
You're shitting me.
Okay. How long, how long were you there for?
I was there for 10, 11 days,
but it's, we were living on the morning of 11.
So 10 days actually.
You can tell me four days, five days.
Okay. This is quite a stretch, you're really telling me
10 to 11 days.
It's quite a lot.
Jeez.
And there was actually a tour for 21 days.
I actually wanted to go for that,
but because of work, I couldn't.
Okay. Okay.
So you landed in North Korea.
Right.
And you landed in Pyongyang.
Yes.
From Beijing.
Okay. So from Beijing, you flew to Pyongyang.
So what happened when you left the plane?
Did you have to go through immigration and customs,
of course.
Right.
Right. So how was that?
How was the experience?
Well, that was a good question.
When we first arrived,
so even on the plane, there was a story.
So it was, I was expecting the plane to be full.
I mean, to be empty, like no one,
just maybe a few tourists and that's it.
No, it was completely full.
What?
Yeah. Of North Koreans.
Okay.
Yeah. They were going back for the holidays
because the day I-
Where were they going back from? China?
China.
All right. Right. Okay.
So it was for the national day holiday,
independence day.
So everyone of North Koreans,
that was the first encounter, like whole plane was full.
Yeah.
Like flying fuck.
And you were the only Singaporean?
Yes.
You're traveling alone?
Oh, I had one more Singaporean.
There was another Singaporean around my age.
But not traveling with you?
Not with you traveling companion?
Okay. Yeah.
So there were two of you traveling together?
Sorry.
I have to,
it's, I knew him from China itself.
So when we-
Oh, you met him in China.
We met in China.
You became associated with him in China.
We were in this office agency
and I think that before we go for these tours,
we have to go to this office to hear about the rules
and so on.
So that was where I met him.
He's not my traveling companion.
Oh, wow. Now I'm hearing more things.
So you had to go into this office
to hear about the do's and the don'ts.
Right. Exactly.
Okay. And if you don't mind me asking,
I don't care about the do's,
but let's find out about the don'ts.
What are the don'ts?
It's actually quite simple.
It's just three main rules.
So first you cannot take any photos
of military installations.
That's for sure.
Okay.
So military personnel, the standards,
or the whole world.
So second will be anything that portrays them
in negativity.
So like-
In negative light.
Negative light.
Even like half finished buildings,
any construction trucks, things like that.
You get an idea.
Like any roads that looks really bad,
you're not allowed to take photos of that.
Now who's gonna be checking in you and-
The tour group leader.
So they have two leaders.
One will be the tour guide.
The other one usually is more,
in a way more junior assistant, obviously.
Right.
It's like assistant to the group.
Sometimes it can be both or the same.
So one of the tour guides is probably gonna be
one of the army officers or army intelligence officers.
I never know.
We never know.
Exactly, yeah.
Okay, okay.
So they told you no pictures.
Don't put them in a bad light, all right?
And no photos of-
No photographs of military installations
and of military personnel,
as well as half-built constructed buildings
and stuff like that.
So and roads, okay.
Anything else?
The last one will be no photos of people without permission.
I mean of the general population.
That's right, yeah.
No interacting or so.
No interacting.
Unless instructed to.
Unless given permission to.
You mean no interaction.
So you can't go into a restaurant or a shop
and buy stuff.
There's interaction, isn't it?
Yeah, so in this kind of situation,
when this is part of our itinerary, it's fine.
But let's say we were on the streets,
we saw some North Koreans,
we are not generally not supposed to,
hey, you know, how are you?
Like we're not supposed to do that.
You're not even supposed to greet them.
Not really.
You can, I guess you can,
but there's like, it's more,
this is where things get more-
Gray.
Gray, exactly.
That's a very good, yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, so it depends on-
I mean, what kind of a freaking holiday would that be, man?
I mean, you're not really gonna meet the locals, right?
Okay, I mean, you see the locals,
but you can't meet the locals,
let alone greet the locals.
Right, so tell me what happened.
So on the plane, on the flight,
there were mostly North Koreans,
one Singaporean guy got to know,
during the tour briefing,
you got to know him in China,
you guys flew over there,
you landed in Pyongyang,
you got the fuck off the plane,
and you went over to customs and immigration.
So what happened then?
So I was going past this Convay Abroad.
Yeah.
So it was full of very one,
so I was actually,
I wanted to take photos.
But they told you to-
But I knew that I couldn't take photos.
Yeah.
So I actually like, you know,
I was feeling a bit more-
Adventurous.
Backside Ichi Singaporean.
Right.
Yes, okay.
So I asked, I actually asked someone in uniform.
I didn't care about uniform,
I just had to ask someone in uniform,
like, can I photo?
Okay, I said it in Korean, but I learned-
Oh, so you learned Korean,
how about photo?
Just photo, how to connect photo.
Okay.
So I asked, okay, okay.
He said okay.
She, it was a she.
She said okay.
Yeah, I knew it's not exactly a consent,
but I just, you know, I asked, you know.
Yeah.
Yeah, I just said, I want to take the clock,
the day is beautiful with the time.
They have time in Shanghai, time in USA.
Yeah.
So I just want to take that.
Yeah.
I wanted to take the whole belt, but yeah.
And I took one and someone,
someone from the military guard,
he saw it.
Yeah.
And there was like, he shouted across.
Wow.
I pretended to like-
Not understand.
Yeah, so I just went on to do my thing at the cab already,
and I was like looking for him back, things like that.
Right.
And he came to me and asked me to come over.
Then?
Yeah, and then he said like,
he said a lot of things in Korean.
I didn't understand, but there was something,
of course, it was scolding you, things like that.
So he brought me to this place with another guy,
two guys now, and they look at me like,
they were like, want to eat me up.
Really?
Yeah.
And it was in a room?
They detained you in a room?
Not in a room.
It was like, so this was the conveyor belt.
Right.
And right in front, there are a few
in the Christian cultists with a bag check spot.
Right.
So this is where you have to lay your bag out,
and you have to take every single thing out from your bag,
to check one by one, your clothes, your travel,
your camera, all these important things.
Everything that you've got, yeah, okay.
Yeah, so that was where they brought me to,
and then they start opening the bag,
they got the tour guide, one of the guides,
to translate for me, you know,
while you're taking photos and things like that.
Right.
It was quite-
Intimidating.
Intimidating, yeah.
And what happened?
They checked your picture.
Yeah, they took my phone, and they went off.
And?
To some room, so I was without my phone,
but I had the guide, so it's fine.
Right.
One of the guides, she was not my guide,
but she spoke English, so it doesn't look,
she go nice.
Okay.
So yeah, so they really asked why I take photos,
I said I asked for permission, but you know,
because I said I want to take the clock, and yeah.
So they deleted the photos, after like 15 minutes,
they got back to me, and the photos were gone.
Okay, then they told you you could go?
Yeah.
Okay.
So they checked my bag, they really did the very
stringent one to fold my bag.
Right.
Like really exceptionally stringent.
Well of course there were no issues.
Like I had a toilet roll, I think, in my bag.
They were also looking at the roll to see if there was any,
yeah, it was very-
Whether anything was written or encrypted onto the-
Are you shitting me, right?
Yeah.
They really checked for these things.
Okay, okay.
And then, but they did let you go, eventually.
Yeah, they let me go, so, but it was quite tense,
it was really tense at the time.
Yeah, okay.
A lot of shouting, a lot of these eyes stares at me.
Yeah, yeah.
So I wasn't scared, to be honest, but I had to-
So come on, how can you not be scared?
I was prepared for it.
Really?
Yeah, it wasn't comfortable, but I expected it to come.
Okay.
You know, because before I took the photo,
I know there's a chance that I will get, you know,
but it's legit, I want to take the clock.
Right.
So yeah, so I was prepared, okay, I'm gonna get to a room,
which I didn't even, thankfully, but even if I got,
I would be, I think I would be quite calm.
Okay, so how was your, after that,
when you left the airport, I mean,
how was your trip in general in North Korea?
You were only around Pyongyang, right?
They didn't allow you to travel out of Pyongyang,
I'm sure.
Our itinerary actually went off Pyongyang.
Huh?
Yeah, we did.
Well, that's surprising.
So we were slated to go for a few places.
One of them is called Kaesong.
So Kaesong is close to the border with South Korea.
So this is where they have the 30th parallel.
Yeah, the 30th parallel.
Yeah, so we went to the JS,
I forgot the name for that, the JSO or something,
the Joint Security Area, JSA.
Yeah, okay.
So we were technically almost able to cross
to the South Korean side.
But they got the person holding the key for the huts,
the blue huts, the UN huts.
So in this, at this border,
there are a few, there's a demarcated line.
Yep, yep.
And between these, there are a few huts, blue colored ones.
Oh, so that's the US.
The UN.
The UN, okay, blue, blue, okay, right.
So technically you can actually go inside
and you can cross to the South.
You can?
Technically you can.
But the guy holding the keys weren't there.
So we didn't manage to go into the room.
Right.
Yeah, but we were so close to.
But that's only for tourists.
Tourists, yes.
But not, of course, not for the local North Korean citizen.
No, not for locals.
You can try, you get shot, you know.
Yeah, a lot of stories about that.
Oh yeah, loads of stories about that, yeah.
So what else is it,
what else was interesting in your trip to North Korea?
At that time, one of the main museums that went there
was for the military parade.
So it's a very huge military, you know.
You see on the news, they have like this huge trays of.
Yeah, and choreographed stuff and stuff, right?
Yeah, all kinds of choreographed performances.
Right, and we also had, they held mass games.
It's kind of like an Olympic ceremony
where they have a performance,
but they have these people at one side of the stadium.
They actually have this kind of, what do you call it?
Pluckets.
So they form like these performances using pluckets.
So it's like a screen, but it's not.
It's actually by the people themselves.
They train for months to do these performances.
Wow.
Yeah, so you know, one person start
and the whole thing will flip.
It's like a wave, but with design.
Right. Yeah.
Excuse me, so did you see the great leader?
I did.
Yes, he was seated like two blocks away.
This would be Kim Jong Un, right?
That's right.
He's the only one you would see with that.
Yeah, it was very visible.
Right. Yeah.
Okay.
So he was really near to me, quite close.
Really, how close?
So like this was a stadium and he was here in the center.
We were like just two blocks away.
Really?
About 150 meters away.
Wow.
Yeah, this is really not far.
We could see him.
And you looked at him, you watched his demeanor.
Yeah, he's just like, just normal.
Scary guy.
No, no.
No.
Just watching the show and clapping.
A lot of the clapping was really long.
Yeah, when he claps, everybody make sure
that they clap with him, right?
Everybody better make sure they clap.
Did you clap?
Oh yeah, we did.
Right, so yeah.
So what's your takeaway of North Korea, man,
on this trip, for this trip?
It's, it really feels like a time travel back to the 80s.
It was like China before it opened up, kind of vibes.
So the music on the streets are really in the 80s.
It's all propaganda, kind of TV shows.
There was only one channel.
We tried to tune the control.
It was all government stuff.
Yeah, okay.
We made sure that nobody could see what's happening outside.
So that's a hermit country.
It's not funny you should say that.
It's like China before it opened.
I was sort of there when they were just opening up
and believe you me, man, it was scary.
Wow, why?
I was in Shanghai.
I was in Shanghai and I was there to host an event.
Back in those days even.
Well, this was in, this was in 1998,
if I'm not mistaken.
And Shanghai airport wasn't like the Shanghai airport today.
Trust you me.
So when we arrived, there were two queues at immigration.
One for the locals and one for foreigners.
And there's a yellow line, right?
You don't step beyond the yellow line.
Now in the local queue, there was a local lady
waiting to get her passport stamped.
She's coming back home and her foot was on the yellow line.
And this PRC soldier, as a lady as well,
approached her and scolded her wholesale
in front of all the foreign tourists
and told her to get her foot off the line.
And this lady sort of retorted and she got slapped.
By the soldier?
Yeah, in full view everyone.
And I tell you all of us started looking down
to see whether we were standing on the yellow line.
Oh gosh.
And you know the place that we were at,
we were launching.
It was a bar, it was a Singapore owned business.
And in that neighborhood, I mean the parties are crazy man.
We started the party like about maybe 2.30 in the afternoon.
The crowd, it was summer and it was really like long days
and short nights.
And the crowd actually started coming in about 10 p.m.
Right.
It started getting dark at 10 p.m.
About there.
And then in between all that, the neighborhood
of mostly older people, old people,
wearing the Maoist dressed, you know the Maoist uniform,
Canada wearing old type.
And they were about to riot at the gate of the premise
because they were saying that no one is sharing
the profits with them.
Yeah, it was quite an eye opening experience.
That was my first ever trip to China.
And it was Shanghai mind you.
It wasn't like some other far flung province or something.
You know, like Shenyang or whatever.
It was Shanghai.
But this was a long time ago.
So yeah, I get it.
I get it when you say that, you know,
when you go to North Korea, it's like the 80s
before China opened up.
Yeah, but believe me, back then in the 90s,
something that I was there, it was more like the damn 70s.
Right.
Yeah, so I get it, I get it.
But I'm not crazy like you.
You see, I didn't deliberately wanna go there.
I went there because it was good money to be paid.
So I went, you know.
Yeah.
But anyway, tell me about the USSR.
Yeah, okay, you told me, you said earlier on the show
that there are still pockets, I'm pretty sure there is,
of maybe, I don't know, what province, territory,
that's predominantly still believes that in Soviet Union
and still predominantly communist.
Tell me more about that.
So I think the communism ideology is,
I mean, the USSR might have fallen,
but the ideology is the mental side of USSR is still alive.
For sure, it's definitely alive in lots of part
of this country, the post-Soviet countries,
the 15 countries that are dissolved.
And there is actually this territory beside Ukraine,
to the left of Ukraine.
So which is to the, in between Romania and Ukraine,
which is Moldova.
Moldova.
Yeah, Moldova, yeah, okay.
And within Moldova itself,
which is a very tiny strip of.
Yes, very tiny strip of land, landlocked, isn't it?
Landlocked, yes.
And there is actually another smaller strip of land
in Moldova itself, which is considered a breakaway region.
It's called Transnistria.
Transnistria.
Yeah, that's right.
And what do you mean by breakaway region?
So in during the, when USSR was about to be dissolved.
Yeah.
So this part of Moldova.
Yeah.
Was not really Moldovians,
because Moldovans speak Romanian mostly.
Okay, so the Moldovians actually have Romanian heritage.
Right.
Okay.
And, but this, how do you pronounce that?
Transnistria.
Yeah.
Didn't want, okay, basically they remain,
they want to remain communist.
Right.
Right, okay.
That small sliver of, okay, right.
Silver of land, yeah.
So they are pro, not pro-communist,
but they pro-Russian.
Right.
They have like, actually the heritage is pretty mixed.
They have Bulgarians living inside.
Yeah.
They have Ukrainians, they have Russians.
Right.
They have Moldovians.
So it's actually very diverse, culturally diverse.
Right.
But that part of land, the people there,
they actually, they are,
they feel like they belong to Russia.
Okay.
They have more roots with Russia.
But that's Russia,
not necessarily the ideology of communism, right?
Actually, the government itself in that land,
so they were fighting this war
when the Dreni was about to be dissolved.
So Moldova and Transnistria was fighting.
Oh, they were at war.
They had a great war.
So it's more like a, it's not like,
it's not civil war, but it's war war.
Civil war kind of thing.
Oh, civil war, because Transnistria is part of Moldova.
Yes.
They were a separate independent entity.
No.
They didn't, not one of the breakaway states.
They, so in the UN, they were recognized as part of Moldova.
I see.
But when you go there, it's different story,
because they have their own army.
Right.
They have their own checkpoint.
Wow.
They have their own money.
Their own borders.
Own government, yes.
Right, their own currency.
Right, so de facto-wise, it's under Moldova,
but the jury, if I'm wrong, the right word to call it,
the jury is not under Moldova.
Right.
Yeah, they have everything is under their own terms.
Right.
Yeah.
So they actually got it by Russian troops.
So it's like the empire and the rebels, you know,
Star Wars, yeah.
No way.
Right, right, right.
Right.
Okay, so these guys, these guys are strictly still,
so don't tell me you went there.
Yeah, I went there, yeah.
Transnistria.
That's right.
That was the first, that was actually one of the main
reasons why I went, for the reason why I started this
travel, it was for Transnistria.
What the fuck's wrong with you, man?
Yeah, I know, right.
I mean, why are you going to places that you know
you're going to get screwed so badly?
Did you get screwed up down there?
Not really, but there was a few situations,
it was quite interesting.
Like what, like what?
Name me one.
Like, I was taking photos, cause I just were, yes.
Again, there's gotta be fucking photos.
Singapore is bad.
I mean, we're getting as bad as Japanese, man.
Like auto warm beer.
No, that was.
Yeah.
Right, I was taking with my camera, so.
Oh, there you go, yeah.
There were two guys that noticed me,
and they went up to me and told me like,
they asked me for more documents in Russian.
They couldn't speak English.
So I pretended not to understand what they mean,
because I mean, inside, like, come on, fuck off.
So yeah, I mean like, who are you?
Because I mean, before I went, I read about all the
possibilities of what I can face.
Yeah, like what?
Bribery.
Okay.
This is one of, because in Eastern Europe is-
Is rampant, yeah.
Is rampant.
It's not, but surprisingly, it's pretty good.
But that's for another story.
So anyway, these two guys went up to me,
and asked me repeatedly for my documents.
They didn't say passport when they didn't-
So were they officials?
I mean, they weren't wearing uniforms or anything like that.
No, they were in plainclothes.
That's why I didn't want to-
Yeah, fuck.
Yeah, fuck off.
But I couldn't say that, right?
So I just said like, I don't understand them in Russian.
I don't understand you.
And I was trying to go, and then they stopped me.
They tried to like lock me in this position.
But my view was I wanted to bring them
to this open air restaurant.
Which was not far away.
And I will give them my passport there.
But not here, just you and me.
I don't know what you can do.
Yeah, not privately.
So at that time, it happened for a few minutes.
No, I don't understand.
I want to go.
So, and they stopped.
This guy came out of nowhere.
He was a really big size, really bulky.
He came up, middle of me.
He put me to one side, and he said, ask me to wait.
He also didn't speak English.
And he went, took them to one side,
and they were like, I think he was scolding them.
The two guys.
So they were like that.
They were looking down.
And like, kind of like little mouse posture.
And I was like, ah, Russian, all the words.
And I was hearing for months.
He scolded for some time.
And he went back to me, he said, passport.
Just give me passport.
And I didn't know it was collaboration, you know.
Who knew?
But I just gave it, because I saw two guys behind,
not far, they were wearing uniform.
They called militia, which is the police.
But they were an army police, army uniform.
So I asked them like, hey, are these two guys your guys?
So he looked at them.
He said, yeah, so, okay, a few more safe.
So he was there.
They were there, like talking about something.
And then he returned me the passport.
And this guy told me, the guy who helped me,
he said like, look, we should stop taking photos.
Maybe you should come with us to our home
because you are being watched for,
because you're a foreigner, you're taking photos.
Yeah, you've got attention.
So, you know, we think you should come to our home.
Home?
Yeah, home.
As in? To their homes.
Who's home?
That guy who helped me.
Oh, that guy's home.
Right.
Well, he must, okay, but this guy must be someone
in some position of authority, isn't it?
No, he wasn't.
But he was just, I think he was scolding them
because from what I understood,
like he's just a foreigner, he doesn't know anything.
What are you trying to,
he's just a normal guy.
Just some normal guy trying to help.
On the street.
Wow.
He was from the restaurant that I was,
I wanted to bring them to.
Right.
Yeah, so he came up and I saw his kids, his wife,
his wife came over as well.
They said like, hey, you should really come to our home
to have protection, something like that, you know?
And? Yeah.
And you did.
I refused because I didn't know if he was gonna.
You set up.
Yeah, I was even more worried, you know?
From the street to the house.
Another situation where you,
John Yell could have been trafficked.
Right.
Yeah.
I was pretty unnerved.
Of course.
Yeah.
Of course, were you traveling alone for this trip?
Yeah, alone.
Alone.
Right.
Yeah, nutcase, man.
Yeah.
Freaking nutcase.
Okay, then what happened?
You went back, the whole situation, you know,
basically it was.
Averted.
Well, I wouldn't say averted.
Diffused.
It was diffused.
Yeah.
Okay, so, and then after which you went on your merry way.
Right.
Okay.
They were insisting.
Yeah.
They said no, they gave me the number in case like,
okay, if you got, if you get invited by the police.
Right.
To the station.
Yeah.
Just call this number if you get into trouble.
So, okay.
Well, there must be people of certain standing
in order for them to tell you that, you know,
you can take their number down, isn't it?
No, I think it's purely that they really want to help me.
More genuine people, huh?
Yeah.
Yes.
Right.
That's really nice.
But you know something, I mean, what on earth
is wrong with you?
I mean, I'm sitting here marveling at the fact that,
you know, this adventurous sense of yours, you know,
risking yourself being thrown into a North Korean gulag.
Now this other place.
Soviet gulag.
Yeah, a Soviet gulag when Soviet Union is already gone.
And be tortured by a North Korean prison guard
tickling the balls of a spicy kimchi for the rest of your
life.
I mean,
I'm not sure if they even give kimchi.
I mean, I'm just thinking, you know,
what's wrong with this guy?
I mean, I admire your courage.
I admire the spirit of travel, but, but God forbid, man,
I will never put myself in a spot like that.
If my son comes to me one day and tells me he's going to do
this kind of travel, I'm going to kick him real hard.
You're going to slap him like soju?
Yeah.
No, no, no, not that.
I'm going to kick him in the butt real hard, man.
So, you know, this, this, this traveling of yours, you know,
having seen cultures, having experienced all this gives you
a richness in life, doesn't it?
Yeah.
Has it changed your beliefs and values?
Yes.
How so?
Before, like I started traveling,
I was thinking like essentially the main things were, okay,
I'm going to stay in Singapore, like just to work.
And then to get married is really like the,
the very normal lifestyle.
When I travel, I realized that actually this is not the life
that I want.
And when I come back, I don't want to be in this same system
where I have to work for people and then I have to get married
and do the things that-
Mainstream.
Mainstream things.
Yeah, conventional mainstream stuff.
And like, I realized that the more I do these,
the more I actually want to travel to more places like that,
to, to, to feel this kind of raw kind of like adventure.
Okay, so right now you're not married?
No.
You're not planning to get married?
No.
Not attached?
No.
I don't plan to for, definitely not for the time being.
What the, okay.
You're working?
Yeah, I'm working.
Okay.
I just got back so I'm having to start work.
That will be next month.
You mean a new job?
Yeah, a new job, that's right.
Right, right.
Don't mind me asking, what do you do for a living?
I mean hospitality.
Your hospitality.
So like specifically FME.
So like I'm a waiter.
Yeah.
So that was what I did since leaving Poly.
Right.
Wow, that's a lot of saving for you to do, huh?
Yep.
To travel about.
Still fine, I'd spend about 14,000 in seven months,
which is still okay, I guess.
It can be cheaper, but yeah.
Yeah, okay, okay.
Have you ever traveled to a place
that drastically exceeded your expectations?
Expectations?
I think I would have two places in mind.
It would be Poland.
I didn't go there for a long time, just a few days.
Wow.
But Poland is, in my opinion, is pretty underrated.
It's like- Really?
Yeah, it's part of EU.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
So I was expecting things to be pretty much like the EU,
you know, like in Austria, Germany,
but actually it was very cheap.
It was really cheap
and the sights were really beautiful.
Like they have a lot of beautiful-
How about the people?
How about safety?
How about, you know?
It's completely safe to me.
Really?
Yeah, yeah.
And people-wise.
So Poland's underrated, you're saying?
Yeah, to me.
Okay, convince me, man.
Why should I,
because I've never been on my travel list,
why should I travel to Poland?
Okay, so definitely the cheap is very cheap,
but of course cheap is not something that everybody,
not everyone will say like,
oh, because it's cheap and you travel for some,
I have the money,
so why do I need to travel even if it's cheap, right?
No, fuck, I don't mind going to a cheap country, man.
So it's really cheap.
Like for example, the hostel I was staying at,
you can find accommodation for like $6,000.
No way.
Which was way cheaper than the Balkans,
which Balkans I expected the opposite,
but it was way more expensive than Balkans.
I mean, more expensive than.
Way cheaper.
Yeah, way cheaper than Balkans.
Cheaper than the Balkans.
Right.
Okay.
So yeah.
And of course they have a lot of beautiful places,
like Wroclaw, in spelling wise,
in English it would be called Roe Claw.
That was what I taught before I went there.
Okay.
It's like W-R-O and the claw.
Yeah.
So I went, oh, can I go to Warclaw?
And like people looking at me.
How do you spell that?
How do you pronounce it again?
Wroclaw.
Yeah.
Gosh, how the hell did Wroclaw become Wroclaw?
Right.
So yeah, that was like, oh, all right.
Yeah, I mean, it's like, oh.
Yeah.
Yeah, you know.
Okay, so it's beautiful places.
Do you speak English predominantly?
They do, they do.
They learn English.
Have you been to Portugal?
No.
No, okay, okay, okay.
Because it doesn't burn a hole in your pocket either.
You put that in your bucket list.
Right.
Yeah, really, I've been there and I love it.
And which part of Portugal did you go?
I was in Lisbon.
Lisbon.
Yeah.
But so far, the favorite place that we've been to
would be Norway.
Wow.
I love Norway.
I was there for, we were there for a month.
Were you with the intent to see
the Northern Lights as well?
Did you manage to see?
We didn't see the, we didn't manage to see
the Northern Lights when we were there.
I think Northern Lights would be better
if you've gone to, say, Finland.
Finland, right.
Yeah, yeah.
But we just love Oslo.
And we traveled seven hours by train
in what is mooted to be the most beautiful train ride
in Europe.
And that is the train ride from Oslo to Bergen,
the first capital of Norway.
Right, all the way north, right?
Yeah, yeah, that's right, all the way north.
Right.
It's beautiful, man.
I mean, God's, not good green earth,
but God's good white earth,
because we were there doing Christmas.
Christmas.
It was beautiful.
Right.
Yeah, yeah, so, but that New Bucket List too, you know.
Oh, wow.
You traveled there.
But I think you're a nutcase, dude.
I mean, what's the next step, Cuba?
I hope that's the- Cuba?
Actually, yeah.
I thought so.
Yeah, Cuba for sure, but I heard,
I've seen like, it's more like, it's quite a tourist trap
for me, what I've seen.
Really?
Yeah, of course, I've not been there,
I'm not in a position to say,
but from what I read, it's pretty much-
But you know, I've spotted Vietnam, North Korea,
well, that place where it's still Soviet,
Moldova, yeah.
Moldova, Trasnistria, right?
And then the former Eastern Bloc, Poland, right?
And then now Cuba, I mean, dude, you've got a,
what is this about communist countries and you?
I think like, communism, the system that,
more like the legacy-
I'm gonna be airing the show, okay?
Okay, yeah, okay, okay.
So like this, the legacy that communism left,
in terms of, in a tourist perspective,
I think it's really interesting for me.
Because like, you're seeing things that, okay,
because Singapore used to be one of the places
where actually communism was to place.
So we merely, we almost lost to the communists, right?
In those Lee Kuan Yew days, in the 50s, 60s,
we were fighting this so much.
And to be able to see something
that Singapore most experienced,
I think it was really interesting,
a different way of life.
It's not that I'm for the ideology.
Okay, so let me get this straight, okay?
You are saying you're not advocating communism, right?
No, no, definitely not, no way, no way.
But I'm just wondering, I mean,
the interest to travel to communist nations,
is for the way of life.
To understand the way of life.
Yes, the mentality, because-
Are they different?
Very different.
So I was trying to test out my hypothesis
towards how they feel, how the people feel.
So sometimes when I visited the places,
like for example in Motova, was a good example.
I went to this flea market to look for some Soviet coins,
and Soviet souvenirs.
So I met these people, we were talking about,
in Sloan, in Russian, broken Russian.
So I was asking them, how do you feel about Soviet Union?
How do you feel about those states?
Do you feel, and I just asked them,
how do you generally like-
Right, so basically you're interested in finding out
how people live differently from us,
especially for those who are either in communist countries,
or former communist countries.
And how they are coping now.
So it's a point of interest, it's a cultural interest.
Cultural interest.
Right, okay, okay.
And some of them actually told me
that they miss the Soviet Union.
Yeah, but of course we have, okay, to put it more simply,
she misses it because she said, during that time,
a lot of things were free,
she didn't have to worry about homes,
because the government would give them.
It was much more simpler, like they could afford things,
like readily, because they have the coupons,
they can just go and they receive it as normal.
But now, after socialism fell,
life is really hard for them, essentially.
But maybe it's because they are older citizens,
and they don't have much time to get used to capitalism.
Yeah, so there was also another side,
so I hear different perspectives.
I see, I see.
Some of them say, thank God, you know.
Yeah, but now the Soviet Union's collapsed,
then you've got supposedly democracy, supposedly.
And then now it seems to be more of an autocracy
than anything else, isn't it?
Well, that's one place
that we shouldn't be traveling anytime soon.
Have you ever been lost or stranded where you were traveling?
Hmm.
When I was hiking, yeah.
Where did you hike?
That time was,
that was in, one of them was in Japan,
one of them was in Boston, Montenegro.
Montenegro?
Montenegro.
Oh my goodness, you went hiking in Montenegro?
And where the hell did you go hiking in Japan?
Japan was-
Not in that crazy forest, right, where people go?
No, not that one.
Oh, not that one, thank goodness for that.
I think I wouldn't, I think I would be here.
So you're not that adventurous after all.
No, not yet.
I have kind of some fear towards the supernatural.
Oh.
Not that I super believe, but I believe it exists,
and I shouldn't put myself in that environment where I can,
you know.
Yeah, yeah, so at least it's something
you don't go chasing after.
Yeah, no, not that.
Okay.
Let's talk about Montenegro, man.
You got lost, you were alone.
Yeah, I was alone.
Are you kidding me?
Yeah, I'm always alone.
And what do you arm yourself with going into the forest?
Was it a forest that you went hiking in?
Not exactly.
Yeah.
It's like this monastery, it's called Oostrook.
Right.
It's about, it's not far from the capital city,
so it's about one hour train ride to that place,
and then you have to hike for about two hours
to get to the monastery.
So it's actually-
So it's getting you away from the train station
to the monastery.
Which is like a hiking path?
It's a hiking path with no civilization around,
no towns, no little villages, nothing.
Hamlets, no, nothing.
No.
Right.
Just a road with empty roads.
Empty road with what?
With what on the left, what's on the right?
No, there's nothing at all.
It's just flatland.
Yeah, just flatland.
Just like a mountainous region,
with some roads built for people to travel past,
and you have to hike in.
And then you got lost.
Yeah.
I got lost when I was-
Then what happened?
There's no GPS working in your phone too, right?
I had GPS, but I needed to get,
so I was like going up this path,
and I took a wrong turn.
And I actually went up to this place
where there were a lot of trees in front of me,
like overgrown trees, bushes and thorns.
So I was kind of stuck there.
I wanted to go back, but according to my GPS,
it's pretty close.
It's easier to just go up than to go back down
and find it away.
So I got stuck for about one hour,
trying to find my way through, to crawl.
And there was no one else around?
No one.
Holy shit, okay.
And what happened?
Just had to persevere, but it was really tough.
You followed the GPS anyway, and you went ahead.
I went ahead.
And you did find the monastery.
Yes, because I knew there was, I saw a road,
some kind of like just a small road,
cast a pass, and I know once I reach there, I'm good.
Okay, so essentially, you arrived at the monastery,
and why did you want to go to the monastery?
Oh, it's just for beauty.
It's like, it's actually a monastery
that's carved into the wall.
Right, but there are monks in the monastery.
Yeah, not really, we don't call them monks.
I think we call them adverts.
Yeah, something like that.
No, no, it's gotta be monks' monastery.
I don't think they're called.
It's Catholic, right?
Yeah, Catholic.
Yeah.
Are they called monks?
Monks, yeah.
Oh, right, okay.
I didn't know about that, but yeah.
Yeah, usually, yeah.
Okay, so, well, you see, go into a monastery,
don't know they're called monks.
What the hell is wrong with you, man?
Okay.
That's where you got lost, you went in there.
But after you came out of the monastery,
you have to go the same beaten path back to the train station.
By right, yes.
Yeah, but by left?
By left, I got lost.
So I went to look for a local, I said,
hey, do you know how to get out of this place?
Because it was pretty late, it was like five.
I was supposed to leave at that time,
but I missed the last train.
So I asked some locals, if you could, you know,
anyways, taxi or any shuttle bus that goes by,
or hitchhiking, things like that.
So there was this guy who, I asked the bus driver,
he's going to a town.
So I got on the ride, taxi ride for a few dollars,
to about $10.
Right, and then you managed to make it for your last trip.
Okay, one last question before we say goodbye.
Any advice for people who love to travel?
Well, who love to travel, I think.
It depends on, in general, it really depends
on what kind of traveling they're looking for.
But if you would like to travel,
I really recommend that you try more of solo trips,
if possible, or maybe let's say you want to do it together.
You can try places that are really not so well known.
Solo trips, yeah, okay.
There are more well known, not so well known.
Right, right.
Off the beaten path, because these are the places
to just go with the flow, when you're there,
because these experiences are priceless.
So the mantra would be, when you're on holiday,
don't worry about getting lost,
because it's a holiday anyway.
Find out more, discover new places.
Sometimes we have a desire to, oh, we have to go here,
we have to go there.
This trip is day one, we have to be here,
day two, here and there.
But I think sometimes we should be more relaxed about it.
Just, okay, just go a little bit more with the flow,
because these are the times where you actually turn
into an experience that you never forget,
which is what happened for me.
Any advice for people who don't like to travel,
or not inclined to travel?
Don't like to travel.
Or not inclined to travel.
Not inclined to travel.
I think traveling is a very good way to experience
something that is very different.
Let's say I'm Singaporean, I work every day,
for whatever reasons I don't like.
I think they should try.
They should still try.
Maybe as a reason for themselves to, hey,
I should do some therapy, in the sense of like,
okay, I don't like to travel,
but maybe you can explore somewhere near,
just something that is close to you.
And something that is still off the beaten track.
Okay, so it's not small, you mean?
It's not small, yeah, exactly.
Thank you, well John, thank you so very much
for being on my show.
That was John Yeo, and it's good that we have him on the show,
because this guy has such big kahunas.
He travels anywhere, he can go alone.
You heard the story today, and it's good that we have him
here before he gets abducted by aliens.
So it's a good thing that we've got him on the show.
Thank you so very much for being here.
And again, thank you so much Gordon's Vadez.
It's been great, really, thank you so much.
Keep him coming.
We'd love to have more of your Vadez.
This is Chris Hansen for the Chris Hansen Conversation.
I'll see you again real soon, bye bye.
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