WEBVTT

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Tonight, we are joined by an author who has spent

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his career examining the power and limits of

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the written word. Our guest is Nicholas Young.

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For more than 15 years, Nicholas was a journalist

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and editor specializing in political analysis

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and in -depth long -form news features. Now,

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he uses that keen journalistic eye that search

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for the actual incident to explore the hidden

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tensions of the city -state, through fiction

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his latest work is a collection of 10 short stories

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seven sacks of rice and other baggage nicholas

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calls his work faction as it blends stories inspired

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by true events and personal family history with

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traditional folk tales and persistent urban legends

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from the haunting mysteries of city life to the

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weight of inherited trauma this book explores

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the things we carry It challenges the reader

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to decide which tales are fact and which are

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simply stories we wish were true. So they actually

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formed a chicken task force. Oh gosh. Details

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about, well, we've put nets, we've got people

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to collect these chicken eggs so they don't reproduce.

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And then the story was just reported very straightforward,

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very straight. And I'm like... Why are there

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no puns about chickens in this story? Why is

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no foul play? You know, like, no, don't count

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your eggs before you hatch, that kind of thing.

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So, I wrote Chicken Task Force kind of like as

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a parody of the COVID task force. Before we begin

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the show, here is an important announcement.

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Now, let's start the show. Hi, everybody. Welcome

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back to this episode of the Chris Hansen Conversation.

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We are still on Ink Spill. As a matter of fact,

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this will be the final episode of our series,

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Ink Spill, where we spill the ink on some good

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literary works coming out of our local authors,

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writers, poets, even graphic animation specialists,

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experts, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. So to give these

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guys a little edge, just a little edge, and to

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encourage you. the viewer, the listener, please,

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books are still better. Okay. Okay. So stop scrolling

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down, up and down your damn screens, unless you're

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watching me, that is. And just pick up a good

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book and read. And this is one good book that

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we would like to recommend to you on this episode.

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And on the final episode of Ming Spill once again,

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and I have with me in studio, author of the book,

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Seven Sacks of Rice. Wow. I've got to get my

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tongue going. Seven Sacks of Rice and Other Baggages.

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And he is Nicholas Yong. Welcome to the studio,

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Nicholas. Thank you for having me. Not at all.

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Hey, chill out, bro. Chill a little bit. This

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is a conversation, man. This is a chill out show.

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You know, we normally don't take ourselves very

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seriously. We're going to talk about you first

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before we head to the book. Okay? 15 years you

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worked as a journalist. Next year is going to

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be 20 years, man. oh crap really my research

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is bad then i uh so yeah uh i worked in like

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i started out at uh media court radio ouch then

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yeah for not not very long then i went on to

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uh the straits times uh i one of the people who

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hired me was a certain uh Might know her. I'm

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pretty sure I know her, yeah. I think her name's

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Bertha. Oh, triple ouch. Okay. So, yeah, I was

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there for quite a long time. Then my longest

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stay was at Yahoo News. I was there for almost

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a decade. Wow. Yeah. Then I went on to the BBC

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and currently I'm freelancing, but I'm doing

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a contract role at, right now, at the News Storm.

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You know, they've combined with the newspaper.

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Oh, gosh. Yeah. Oh, man. You had stomp, huh?

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Yeah. Oh, man. I better not say too much. Oh,

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boy. Oh, let me have a sip of water first. Stomp.

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Oh. I mean, why did you... I'm sorry. I just

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have to do this. Why did you leave the BBC? I

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mean, it's like the place to be, isn't it? I

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think I better not say too much about that. Oh,

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really? Yeah. I mean, I'm just like that, you

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know. But I mean, I've been in journalism for

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so long, kind of. I think I'm dyed in the wool,

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right? So, you know, a lot of times people would

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ask, well, why don't you go on to work in comms?

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And it's something I can't do. Like, you know,

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I mean, going back to Bertha, right? So, I think

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my formative years were at ST. under like supervisors

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like her and uh dominic nathan and i don't know

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you know these names yes i do yeah so you know

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i i think that's why that was my training ground

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as a journalist and um you know it's i mean right

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now i i i train like young writers and reporters

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right it didn't come from a journalism background

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so i mean i tell them you know from from my point

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of view i see it as a as a vocation, as a calling.

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Not everybody has the temperament for it and

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that's fine. I tell them like, you know, you

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have to figure out how far you're prepared to

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push, you know, whether this job is for you or

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not. And it can be, I mean, I've known a lot

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of good reporters along the way who left because

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they kind of got burned out. They didn't like

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certain aspects of the job. You know, they were

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good at it, but they didn't like. certain things

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about it. Yeah. Okay. So, and you know, they've

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gone on to really good careers in other things,

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you know, and we're still in touch with my friends

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and all. I want to kind of like, when I look

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back now, I realize I'm one of the last men standing.

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Okay. And it's not a matter of, you know, like,

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you know, it's not about self -praise. It's not

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about, oh, look at me, I lasted. It's not about

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that. It's just that it's something that I want

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to stay with, you know, journalists for life.

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I know what you mean. I mean, I have my only

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sibling who's, as you mentioned her name, Bertha,

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I can completely understand where you're coming

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from. So you worked as a journalist and you spent

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years, did you spend a good number of years at

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the political desk? No, I was actually at, so

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you're talking about Straits Times. Yeah. I was

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largely at Life. Oh, in Life. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

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So you report factual events anyway, right? As

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a reporter, obviously you chase after the newsmaker,

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you get factual events, right? Yeah. I mean,

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broadly speaking. Well, I mean, I guess nowadays

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people, what are facts are in dispute quite a

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bit. Yeah, okay. Let's not go into that direction.

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There's a different story altogether. But let's

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talk, let's get back to this. What made you decide

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that fiction was a necessary tool to tell these

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short stories? Specifically. Rather than sticking

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to pure non -fiction. You know. Because the book

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is a series of short stories. Yeah. So in this

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case, you know, like it's a series of short stories

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based on true stories. Yeah. Quite a bit of it

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is drawn from the newsroom, the various newsrooms

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where I've worked. Okay. Some of it is about

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my family history. Some of it is. that people

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have told me. And then I put a fictional spin

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on it. So, you know, one thing that I've always

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hated is when an editor comes to me, right, and

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says, can you ask so -and -so if he can say this?

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And I'm always like, no, because he or she didn't

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say it, right? You know, I can't just make shit

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up, you know, for a news story. Do you have some,

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a newsmaker craft a narrative? As in, you know,

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sometimes they like the... Or lead them into

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crafting a narrative instead. I guess you could

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say that. Is that what you're saying? I guess

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you could say that, you know, in a sense that

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like, sometimes the editor might be looking for

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a particular quote. Right. He say, can you ask

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him if he can say this? Like, can you get him

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to say this? Then I'm like, no. Okay. But so,

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you know, I can't just make shit up. Yeah. But

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when it comes to fiction, I can make shit up.

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Okay. Right. So, so as I say, I put a fictional

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spin on... a lot of these stories, right? And

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then, you know, I mean, as we all know in real

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life is things are often unsatisfactory. You

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don't have a happy ending. You don't have a satisfactory

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ending. But in the world of fiction, that's the

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beauty of it, right? I mean, you can come up

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with any ending you want. You can fantasize an

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ending. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, so in fiction,

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it's about world building. Yeah, okay. Whether

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you're talking about a contemporary setting,

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you're talking about, I have a story based on

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a Korean folk tale. So I'm building that world.

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Or you're talking about the inner life of a person.

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So that is the challenge, right? It's not like

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with journalism, like, well, you need to file

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your copy by this time, right? And you can't

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make excuses. You're like, well, copy editor's

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waiting. The sub is waiting. You know, like,

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you got to, you know, competition is on the story.

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You got to get it going, man. You got to upload

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it now. Whereas with fiction, I think the more

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time you take to craft it, the better it becomes.

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Yeah. You give it more depth to the story because

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you take the time to give it depth, isn't it?

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Am I right to say that? In fact, I mean, you

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know, I started out at a time in journalism in

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like 2006. Yeah. So there was a time when, you

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know, you could actually take your time to craft

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that story and it comes out the next day, right?

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Yeah. These days, no such thing. Like internet's

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not going to wait for you, man. Yeah. Right.

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Well, times have changed. Yeah. Everyone's releasing

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stories faster than anything else. Yeah. And

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then it leads to, I mean, a lot of errors. Yeah.

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Okay. So is that the reason why your book's inspired

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by true stories, somewhat true stories and stories

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that we wish were true? Because you said just

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now, stories that you can tell because it's your

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own history in one of your stories, your own

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family history. That's certainly true. Am I right?

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Okay. Then other people's stories, which we can't

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tell whether it's true or not, so somewhat true.

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Okay, so I have a story about, it's called The

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Other Family, right? So it's about a girl from

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her teen years who could see an entire other

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family in her flat, you know, the site, right?

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Ghostly family. Yes. So this was told to me by

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a friend. And she only mentioned it in passing,

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right? And then I thought, you know what? This

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could be a great short story. And so I actually

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went to interview her, right? And she started

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telling me very specific incidents that happened,

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right? And because my first thought was, well,

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she was a kid, you know, flights of fancy, right?

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So she was a kid at the time. Yes. And then like,

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yeah, so from her kid into her teen years. And

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then, yeah, so I thought, well, you know. kids

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imagine a lot of things, right? Engineering friends,

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this sort of thing. But then she started citing

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these very specific incidents, right? And then

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you start to think, well, okay, she's not making

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this up. This really happened. So, in real life,

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she said it kind of just like faded away and

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she and her family moved away from that flat.

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And then I thought, you know - Her family knew

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about this. Her family knew about this. Yes.

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Yeah. So, but she was the only one who could

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see them. Right. But they took her seriously.

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Sorry, man, you got me started. That one, I'm

00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:13.139
not too sure. But then in terms of fiction, right?

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Yeah. I thought this will make a great story.

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Right. So, yeah, in real life, they kind of moved

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away from the flat and like that was it. Yeah.

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But in my story, I come up with a different ending.

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Okay. So, yeah. So, that's why I say like somewhat

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true. Yeah. And also like other things like,

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so there was a news report about a coffin that

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was found floating in the Galang River. Yeah.

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Okay. Right. So, and then like in real life,

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what happened was that someone had been hired.

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It was actually the outer, what do you call it?

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The casing, right? Because a body was repatriated.

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Right. So, it was used to contain the coffin.

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So, this dude was hired to get rid of it. So,

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he was like, you know, I'll just dump it in the

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river. Okay. So, he kind of like, he kind of

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fine and all that. So, but then I thought, what

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if there really was a body in a coffin? floating

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down the Singapore River. So this was somewhat

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based on fact. Somewhat. Okay, I get what you

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mean now. Yeah, yeah. All right, let's fucking

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have fun. So things like that. Okay. So there

00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:19.679
was an actual incident at the heart of it. So

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when you get all your stories, your source actually

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comes from sometimes real news or people who

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know people who told you about someone and something

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has happened and you chase after it. Yeah. And

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then you fictionalize the whole thing. Yeah,

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because I mean, in journalism, right, especially

00:13:34.139 --> 00:13:38.059
when you do court stories, you range from, the

00:13:38.059 --> 00:13:41.480
stories range from the horrendous to the just,

00:13:42.269 --> 00:13:45.070
what, how did this happen? Right. I mean, like,

00:13:45.090 --> 00:13:47.470
like you hear all these kinds of things and then

00:13:47.470 --> 00:13:50.169
sometimes there's no resolution. You think, well,

00:13:50.210 --> 00:13:52.049
so -and -so was fine. So -and -so was arrested.

00:13:52.169 --> 00:13:54.409
But what happened to them in the end? Exactly.

00:13:54.529 --> 00:13:58.590
So, so I, I, you know, I think I drew a lot of

00:13:58.590 --> 00:14:02.029
inspiration from like headlines or like incidents.

00:14:02.149 --> 00:14:04.529
And then I, I thought, okay, how can I make a

00:14:04.529 --> 00:14:06.750
story out of this? Right. Yeah. When these days,

00:14:06.789 --> 00:14:08.690
I think it's worse, you know, in my opinion,

00:14:08.710 --> 00:14:11.250
strangely, I was, I just came from Bertha's,

00:14:11.250 --> 00:14:16.720
my mom's home. And we celebrated her little birthday

00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:20.220
party for her. And we were just talking over

00:14:20.220 --> 00:14:23.559
the lunch table about, I was saying, how is it

00:14:23.559 --> 00:14:29.059
these days? It does seem to me that journalists

00:14:29.059 --> 00:14:31.720
or reporters no longer chase after newsmakers.

00:14:33.019 --> 00:14:37.500
And, you know, I give you, okay, sometimes I

00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:41.360
understand if it's a crime, and the person's

00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:44.080
been charged for that crime, and it's subjudice,

00:14:44.120 --> 00:14:47.179
and it's already in court, so you can't really

00:14:47.179 --> 00:14:49.820
talk about it. But at the heat of the moment,

00:14:49.860 --> 00:14:53.200
when something has already occurred, that would

00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:57.100
be the opportune time to chase after newsmakers.

00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:00.059
To chase after witnesses, to chase after everything.

00:15:00.179 --> 00:15:03.120
Because whatever we read today seems to stop

00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:11.080
short of something. Like this guy allegedly killed

00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:14.679
that guy and it happened in a prominent place

00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:18.919
and there were screams heard coming from a woman.

00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:21.480
Yeah, I'm not going to really go into details,

00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:23.820
the finite details, otherwise I will be committing

00:15:23.820 --> 00:15:28.649
some duties. And then the cops came, the guy

00:15:28.649 --> 00:15:30.929
got arrested. Eventually, you know, he wasn't

00:15:30.929 --> 00:15:33.509
charged yet. Of course, it just happened, right?

00:15:34.549 --> 00:15:39.049
And I don't know whether any reporter ran down.

00:15:39.230 --> 00:15:42.730
What they could have done was chased after. Who

00:15:42.730 --> 00:15:44.669
was the woman who screamed? Where were the witnesses?

00:15:45.330 --> 00:15:47.409
How is this person related to the other guy?

00:15:47.490 --> 00:15:50.070
How was the assailant? related to the other guy.

00:15:50.149 --> 00:15:53.610
And there was nothing like that. So you don't

00:15:53.610 --> 00:15:56.809
draw any kind of conclusions. It really becomes

00:15:56.809 --> 00:16:00.590
like somewhat true, true, don't know. Because

00:16:00.590 --> 00:16:03.710
we don't have enough facts to draw to any kind

00:16:03.710 --> 00:16:06.830
of conclusion. Well, I can't really speak to

00:16:06.830 --> 00:16:09.549
why that is now. I think a lot of it depends

00:16:09.549 --> 00:16:14.590
on your editors and your supervisors. But what

00:16:14.590 --> 00:16:17.750
I will say is that something that I try to get

00:16:17.750 --> 00:16:22.509
across to the younger ones that I supervise now

00:16:22.509 --> 00:16:25.710
that you really need a thick skin, right? I mean,

00:16:25.750 --> 00:16:28.090
just the other day, there was a, I won't go into

00:16:28.090 --> 00:16:30.389
detail, there was an incident where I think one

00:16:30.389 --> 00:16:33.830
of the younger ones got a bit scared. And then

00:16:33.830 --> 00:16:36.509
I said, and then I told them, you know, your

00:16:36.509 --> 00:16:38.750
role as a reporter is to find information and

00:16:38.750 --> 00:16:41.250
there will always be people who try to stop you

00:16:41.250 --> 00:16:42.809
from getting the information for whatever reason.

00:16:42.950 --> 00:16:45.600
So I said, you know, don't be intimidated. stand

00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:48.419
your ground, you know, stay calm and grow a thick

00:16:48.419 --> 00:16:51.759
skin. Yeah. Right? So, I mean, the incident,

00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:53.860
the situation you mentioned just now, it really

00:16:53.860 --> 00:16:56.240
does take a thick skin to go into, you know,

00:16:56.259 --> 00:16:59.279
a crime scene and then, you know, just kind of

00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:02.559
really get in people's faces and ask them those

00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:05.339
questions. I was not a crime reporter, but I

00:17:05.339 --> 00:17:07.640
knew some really good ones and they were really

00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:10.640
like, I mean, the skin is so thick. I met some

00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:13.099
really good ones too from the days that my sister

00:17:13.099 --> 00:17:15.589
was still working there. And I've seen one or

00:17:15.589 --> 00:17:20.130
two in action, crime reporters, you know. I'm

00:17:20.130 --> 00:17:22.490
just picking crime just as one example. It doesn't

00:17:22.490 --> 00:17:24.829
have to necessarily mean that it's limited to

00:17:24.829 --> 00:17:27.509
just crime stories. Just since we're talking

00:17:27.509 --> 00:17:30.869
about that coffin floating down the river and

00:17:30.869 --> 00:17:32.569
you brought it up, you know, crime reporting,

00:17:32.809 --> 00:17:35.390
right? So since we're on that particular specific

00:17:35.390 --> 00:17:38.549
topic, I might as well just whack on that one

00:17:38.549 --> 00:17:42.670
instead. I've seen people go. crime reporters

00:17:42.670 --> 00:17:46.809
go to wakes of the victim. Yeah, I've done that.

00:17:46.910 --> 00:17:49.549
And they move around table to table, you know,

00:17:49.569 --> 00:17:52.170
sitting down, blending into the crowd, you know,

00:17:52.190 --> 00:17:54.210
building a little rapport, getting information

00:17:54.210 --> 00:17:58.210
out. And I think that's brilliant. Is that happening

00:17:58.210 --> 00:18:02.450
today? I don't know. I've done that a few times.

00:18:03.430 --> 00:18:07.069
That's you. But again, it should qualify. I'm

00:18:07.069 --> 00:18:08.730
not a crime reporter. I haven't done it very

00:18:08.730 --> 00:18:13.329
often. So it is a very intimidating kind of venue.

00:18:13.549 --> 00:18:18.309
So some people will tell you to get lost. Some

00:18:18.309 --> 00:18:21.269
people might be begrudging and tolerate your

00:18:21.269 --> 00:18:25.230
presence. Others actually kind of welcome you.

00:18:25.410 --> 00:18:30.450
So I mean, well, this is years ago at ST. there

00:18:30.450 --> 00:18:32.690
was a food poisoning incident at the Geylang

00:18:32.690 --> 00:18:35.289
Sarai temporary market. It just blew up and blew

00:18:35.289 --> 00:18:36.869
up and blew up. Like a hundred people got food

00:18:36.869 --> 00:18:40.710
poisoning. Then it was suddenly, oh, one person

00:18:40.710 --> 00:18:42.789
has died. Then suddenly two people have died.

00:18:42.890 --> 00:18:46.250
Wow, it blew up, right? So I was one of the reporters

00:18:46.250 --> 00:18:50.450
on it. And then I did go to a wake. And I was

00:18:50.450 --> 00:18:52.930
quite nervous my first time there. And the family

00:18:52.930 --> 00:18:54.650
actually welcomed us. They said, thank you for

00:18:54.650 --> 00:18:57.329
covering this story. We want to know how our

00:18:57.329 --> 00:18:59.009
sister died. We hope that you will chase this

00:18:59.009 --> 00:19:01.710
story. So they actually shared the death cert

00:19:01.710 --> 00:19:06.109
and everything. So I was kind of surprised. But

00:19:06.109 --> 00:19:08.289
I've also been in other situations where the

00:19:08.289 --> 00:19:10.789
families are like, nope, go away. Don't want

00:19:10.789 --> 00:19:14.970
to talk to you. And it's perfectly fine. So yeah,

00:19:15.009 --> 00:19:19.769
it really does take a thick skin. But you have

00:19:19.769 --> 00:19:23.670
to be very respectful and considerate. These

00:19:23.670 --> 00:19:27.769
are people who have lost a family member. They're

00:19:27.769 --> 00:19:30.670
really not obliged to talk to you. So the amount

00:19:30.670 --> 00:19:32.730
of empathy has got to be exercised. I don't think

00:19:32.730 --> 00:19:34.529
you can be a good reporter without empathy. And

00:19:34.529 --> 00:19:36.289
I don't think you can be a good storyteller without

00:19:36.289 --> 00:19:38.410
empathy. So when you tell your story, see, being

00:19:38.410 --> 00:19:41.269
in the position you've been, it's a very nice

00:19:41.269 --> 00:19:43.670
cushy position. Pardon me using the word cushy

00:19:43.670 --> 00:19:45.670
loosely. Why cushy? But it's a cushy position

00:19:45.670 --> 00:19:49.450
because the nature of reportage, right, allows

00:19:49.450 --> 00:19:53.569
you to also collate all kinds of real, non -fiction,

00:19:53.630 --> 00:19:57.130
factual stuff that happened. And with an imagination,

00:19:57.210 --> 00:20:00.950
you can always craft a nice fiction story. Oh,

00:20:00.970 --> 00:20:02.829
you mean cushy in terms of... Getting information,

00:20:03.029 --> 00:20:06.210
getting sources. Oh, okay. There is a skeleton

00:20:06.210 --> 00:20:09.990
to every story you write. Yeah. So I think it's

00:20:09.990 --> 00:20:13.109
a great space to be. Let's talk about the title

00:20:13.109 --> 00:20:16.490
story, Seven Sacks of Rice. It's a real event

00:20:16.490 --> 00:20:19.549
in your family history. How do you determine

00:20:19.549 --> 00:20:23.809
this specific personal ancestral story? That

00:20:23.809 --> 00:20:28.549
should be the foundation of your entire collection

00:20:28.549 --> 00:20:31.549
of short stories in this book. Because, you know,

00:20:31.569 --> 00:20:38.569
so let me just tell it very briefly. My grandmother,

00:20:38.769 --> 00:20:44.930
back in the 1950s, when she was in China, at

00:20:44.930 --> 00:20:48.190
the time, she only had daughters. So, I mean,

00:20:48.210 --> 00:20:51.640
as you know, in... East Asian cultures. Yeah.

00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:56.039
Sons are very important. Yeah. So, she bought

00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:59.140
a boy, a four -year -old boy from another family

00:20:59.140 --> 00:21:02.579
for seven sacks of rice. And, you know. This

00:21:02.579 --> 00:21:05.980
is true. Yes. This one is true. Yeah. So, like.

00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:11.640
For seven sacks of rice? In China? Yeah. In China.

00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:16.059
In Shantou. Okay. So, the thing is that, you

00:21:16.059 --> 00:21:18.670
know. You've heard a lot of these stories, right?

00:21:18.690 --> 00:21:20.789
Even back in the 60s and 70s, there are families

00:21:20.789 --> 00:21:22.670
that gave children away because they couldn't

00:21:22.670 --> 00:21:24.710
afford to feed them. No, no, no, no. That's not

00:21:24.710 --> 00:21:27.130
just the only reason if you don't know. Do you

00:21:27.130 --> 00:21:29.890
know any other reason besides that? Besides poverty?

00:21:30.769 --> 00:21:33.789
I can tell you. Yeah? Okay. Because they want

00:21:33.789 --> 00:21:40.609
boys? Well, no. This is even worse. This is based

00:21:40.609 --> 00:21:46.180
on... numerology or Feng Shui, and that this

00:21:46.180 --> 00:21:49.240
child is not good for you, in your house, bad

00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:53.359
things will happen, you need to give away the

00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:57.240
kid to your sister, your brother, and let them

00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:01.059
raise this kid as their own. The kid normally,

00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:04.259
usually grows up knowing that the parents that

00:22:04.259 --> 00:22:08.200
raised him or her are not his natural, not the

00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:10.779
natural parents. And they actually know their

00:22:10.779 --> 00:22:15.380
uncle and auntie, so and so, are his or her natural

00:22:15.380 --> 00:22:18.299
parents. Okay. You know, and they do that because

00:22:18.299 --> 00:22:21.359
they, and it's prevalent also, especially amongst

00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:23.920
the Peranakan community. Right. Okay. Yeah. So

00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:27.759
they give away children based on that. Wow. Yeah.

00:22:27.900 --> 00:22:32.039
Okay. Not just based on poverty, man. I know

00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:35.900
of this personally as well. So, I mean, the tragedy

00:22:35.900 --> 00:22:39.990
of it is that you would think, It's your fault.

00:22:40.569 --> 00:22:43.049
No, I mean, the tragedy of it, this thing about

00:22:43.049 --> 00:22:45.349
children being sold or children being given away.

00:22:45.549 --> 00:22:48.569
Yeah. You would think, you know, it's the 21st

00:22:48.569 --> 00:22:51.210
century. It doesn't happen. Not true. It happens

00:22:51.210 --> 00:22:54.630
quite a bit in South Asia, in Central Asia. Really?

00:22:54.769 --> 00:22:57.269
Yeah, it still does. For all kinds of reasons.

00:22:57.569 --> 00:22:59.769
But I don't hear this story here in Singapore

00:22:59.769 --> 00:23:02.750
as much. Kai, we were just talking about something

00:23:02.750 --> 00:23:06.690
like this, weren't we? I can't recall. No, just

00:23:06.690 --> 00:23:09.400
now when we were coming back. Upstairs? Yeah.

00:23:10.180 --> 00:23:14.299
Regarding what? Parents who gave away their children.

00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:18.400
I'm not going to go into specifics. All right.

00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:21.799
Yeah. And yeah, we were just talking about something

00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:27.460
like that. And you know, is it as prevalent today

00:23:27.460 --> 00:23:30.180
in Singapore? Do you think? Do you know? I don't

00:23:30.180 --> 00:23:33.059
know if you can actually do that nowadays. But

00:23:33.059 --> 00:23:36.220
I mean, you're asking me why I put this story

00:23:36.220 --> 00:23:38.440
at... at the heart of the collection is that,

00:23:38.500 --> 00:23:41.180
you know, this has been part of the family folklore

00:23:41.180 --> 00:23:44.819
for, I mean, ever since I was born because we

00:23:44.819 --> 00:23:48.099
always knew we had an uncle who was adopted but

00:23:48.099 --> 00:23:50.819
he, he rejected the family from a very young

00:23:50.819 --> 00:23:53.019
age because he knew that he was adopted and then,

00:23:53.079 --> 00:23:55.019
I would just hear stories from my aunties or

00:23:55.019 --> 00:23:57.559
my mother about, hey, we saw so and so today

00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:01.099
and he's working these odd jobs and then like,

00:24:01.180 --> 00:24:03.420
the next time you go there, he's gone, right?

00:24:03.460 --> 00:24:04.859
Because he doesn't want to have anything to do

00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:08.569
with the family. So, So I'd always known about

00:24:08.569 --> 00:24:11.190
this incident. And then one day, my mother told

00:24:11.190 --> 00:24:13.190
me something, right? And I wouldn't say what

00:24:13.190 --> 00:24:15.529
it is because it kind of gives away a key part

00:24:15.529 --> 00:24:17.910
of the story. Sure. So she said that she's actually,

00:24:17.990 --> 00:24:19.950
she told me that she actually played a big part

00:24:19.950 --> 00:24:22.849
in this particular story. She was the same age

00:24:22.849 --> 00:24:25.670
as this uncle at the time, four years old. And

00:24:25.670 --> 00:24:27.230
then I had a shock. I said, you never told me

00:24:27.230 --> 00:24:29.470
this. So I started asking her for more and more

00:24:29.470 --> 00:24:33.869
details. And I talked to my auntie as well. My

00:24:33.869 --> 00:24:36.660
grandparents are long gone. Two of my aunties

00:24:36.660 --> 00:24:38.279
have also passed on. So there's not a lot of

00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:42.880
people to check with to verify the facts. But,

00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:46.180
you know, again, this is why I say I put a fictional

00:24:46.180 --> 00:24:50.180
spin on it. And, you know, when I was talking

00:24:50.180 --> 00:24:52.559
to my mother, she said it a lot. Your grandmother

00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:57.720
had a very hard life. And, you know, I used to

00:24:57.720 --> 00:24:59.859
go to my grandmother's place when I was very

00:24:59.859 --> 00:25:01.900
young all the time. I'd meet with my cousins.

00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:06.200
I'd meet my uncles and aunties. I have very fond

00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:09.400
memories of my grandmother. And, but I didn't

00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:12.880
really know her well. You know, like I, I'm Teochew

00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:14.640
on my mother's side. My Teochew is like half

00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:16.759
past six. So we never really had like in -depth

00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:19.279
conversations. But when my mother started telling

00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:21.140
me all these details about my grandmother, then

00:25:21.140 --> 00:25:24.680
I really started to get a feel, a real sense

00:25:24.680 --> 00:25:26.839
of what she was like as a person. And in that

00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:29.299
time period, right? Those kind of pressures that,

00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:32.900
you know. well, you're the wife, you got to produce

00:25:32.900 --> 00:25:35.599
a baby son, right? Baby boy. If you're not, well,

00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:36.839
there's something wrong with you. You know, you've

00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:40.339
let down the family. And I mean, even though

00:25:40.339 --> 00:25:42.339
biologically, we know it's actually the man's

00:25:42.339 --> 00:25:46.059
fault if you can't get a boy. Yeah. So, yeah.

00:25:46.140 --> 00:25:47.859
So in writing this story, it's something very

00:25:47.859 --> 00:25:50.059
personal to me. And then it's why I started to

00:25:50.059 --> 00:25:53.359
get this idea. Why don't I do a collection of

00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:56.420
true stories, right? Short stories based on true

00:25:56.420 --> 00:26:01.099
stories. Okay. A story like that, seven sacks

00:26:01.099 --> 00:26:03.140
of rice by a boy because you know you have to

00:26:03.140 --> 00:26:05.559
give us a boy you need to produce a boy and the

00:26:05.559 --> 00:26:09.480
pressure social pressure you receive at that

00:26:09.480 --> 00:26:12.180
time you know to produce a boy and then therefore

00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:16.900
you adopt one this is a baggage right yeah very

00:26:16.900 --> 00:26:22.200
much so now do you think that kind of baggage

00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:25.720
still exists amongst families and people in singapore

00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:28.339
today For example, you don't have to go that

00:26:28.339 --> 00:26:30.440
far. Maybe not in terms of I must get a boy or

00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:32.859
whatever. I think it's worse when you have young

00:26:32.859 --> 00:26:36.640
people get married and don't have children and

00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:38.460
get pressure all the time during Chinese New

00:26:38.460 --> 00:26:40.299
Year. So when are you going to get a baby? When

00:26:40.299 --> 00:26:41.160
are you going to have a baby? When are you going

00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:45.400
to have a baby? Or even women who have had multiple

00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:50.420
miscarriages try so hard to get babies and they

00:26:50.420 --> 00:26:53.500
are also under a lot of pressure. So I think

00:26:53.500 --> 00:26:56.440
it's still relatable today, isn't it? This story

00:26:56.440 --> 00:26:59.059
may be an old story, but... I think it really

00:26:59.059 --> 00:27:04.400
depends on the kind of family that you're from

00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:06.420
and the kind of family that your partner is from.

00:27:06.579 --> 00:27:10.119
So like, I think everybody has their own baggage

00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:12.619
that they bring into a relationship, right? And

00:27:12.619 --> 00:27:15.759
then, well, not just a relationship, but I think

00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:18.059
I'm old enough by now to realize that sometimes

00:27:18.059 --> 00:27:20.000
when I see people at work behaving in a certain

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:23.299
way, and, you know, most people would just be

00:27:23.299 --> 00:27:25.339
like, why is he like that? But then you think

00:27:25.339 --> 00:27:28.240
deeply about it, there must be something deeper.

00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:31.079
And very often that kind of baggage comes from

00:27:31.079 --> 00:27:33.599
your childhood, your family experiences, and

00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:36.420
you bring all of that into that family situation.

00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:43.220
And there's all these unspoken expectations and

00:27:43.220 --> 00:27:46.200
then all these thoughts of, well, why isn't he

00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:48.140
doing this? Why isn't she doing this? But when

00:27:48.140 --> 00:27:49.759
you think about it, well, this doesn't make much

00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:52.480
sense. Why should he or she be expected to do

00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:56.450
that? And then in terms of having children, you

00:27:56.450 --> 00:27:59.490
know, like, so the government's constantly telling

00:27:59.490 --> 00:28:01.309
us to have children, right? And then like giving

00:28:01.309 --> 00:28:05.970
all these baby bonuses. But then I wonder how

00:28:05.970 --> 00:28:07.970
much thought it goes into. Well, what about the

00:28:07.970 --> 00:28:12.470
ecosystem around parents, right? You know, childcare,

00:28:12.789 --> 00:28:17.710
parental leave, the cost of education. These

00:28:17.710 --> 00:28:19.450
are all the things that deter people, right?

00:28:19.529 --> 00:28:20.789
I mean, it's not enough that, yeah, here's like

00:28:20.789 --> 00:28:22.869
10 ,000 going to have a kid. pressure of education

00:28:22.869 --> 00:28:25.970
10 ,000 gone in like 2 years bro or maybe less

00:28:25.970 --> 00:28:29.210
than that so yeah but I can tell you based on

00:28:29.210 --> 00:28:31.049
I'm not saying it's prevalent just because of

00:28:31.049 --> 00:28:33.750
what I'm about to say but based on my own personal

00:28:33.750 --> 00:28:36.490
experiences over the years I'm 55 years old nothing

00:28:36.490 --> 00:28:39.509
to hide I can assure you including myself my

00:28:39.509 --> 00:28:43.029
own family nucleus my family didn't really give

00:28:43.029 --> 00:28:47.829
us that much pressure but we lost 3 kids along

00:28:47.829 --> 00:28:51.900
the way and in the end we almost gave up until

00:28:51.900 --> 00:28:57.920
I had my son who's 16 today. And over the time,

00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:01.160
I tell you, sometimes there are other women outside

00:29:01.160 --> 00:29:03.759
of even family who would mock at other women

00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:07.920
for either being a single mom or not being able

00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:12.980
to have a kid. And I can tell you, it exists.

00:29:14.420 --> 00:29:17.240
It exists. So yeah, I mean, the reason why I

00:29:17.240 --> 00:29:19.720
brought that up is because I think No matter

00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:21.900
what, whether we can look at it as being an archaic,

00:29:21.900 --> 00:29:25.119
old, antique story, you know, that happened in

00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:27.900
China many, many years ago, but it takes on different

00:29:27.900 --> 00:29:30.359
shapes and forms in modern day society, it could.

00:29:31.099 --> 00:29:33.640
And I think, in my opinion, it has. Well, it

00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:36.420
makes great fodder for fiction. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:38.500
it does, it does. Which brings me to this point.

00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:42.180
You wrote a collection of short stories instead

00:29:42.180 --> 00:29:45.650
of a novel. You can actually weave all that into

00:29:45.650 --> 00:29:47.809
one fantastic freaking story, one bloody freaking

00:29:47.809 --> 00:29:52.609
novel, right? Why short story? Novel very hard

00:29:52.609 --> 00:29:55.210
lah. Huh? Why? Okay, wait. Wait, wait, wait.

00:29:55.289 --> 00:29:58.569
I'm a noob, okay? Explain to me. I'm not. I said

00:29:58.569 --> 00:30:01.190
this before just last week to two other writers

00:30:01.190 --> 00:30:04.809
in this studio. I'm going to say it again today.

00:30:04.950 --> 00:30:10.130
Not every Hanson's a birther, okay? And I'm saying

00:30:10.130 --> 00:30:13.390
it again still. Can you believe it? My only claim

00:30:13.390 --> 00:30:17.009
to fame is that little piece I contributed to

00:30:17.009 --> 00:30:19.490
Felix Cheung's book. That's about the size of

00:30:19.490 --> 00:30:22.869
it. So I want to understand from writers, not

00:30:22.869 --> 00:30:25.829
just Bertha, everyone I know or I can meet like

00:30:25.829 --> 00:30:30.230
you along the way. Explain to me, do you think

00:30:30.230 --> 00:30:33.630
if you would weave it into a novel, it'll probably

00:30:33.630 --> 00:30:36.589
maybe, maybe, maybe be more exciting reading?

00:30:36.750 --> 00:30:39.269
A sicker book put out there on the shelves can

00:30:39.269 --> 00:30:43.589
fly off easily? I don't know. You school me.

00:30:43.890 --> 00:30:46.309
Whether a book sells well very often depends

00:30:46.309 --> 00:30:49.910
on the kind of marketing and the narrative around

00:30:49.910 --> 00:30:52.390
it, I think. Also, the kind of personality of

00:30:52.390 --> 00:30:57.730
the author and all that. So, I did, my first

00:30:57.730 --> 00:31:00.690
book was a novella. It was about zombies in Singapore.

00:31:01.250 --> 00:31:04.549
Oh, you, another one. So, I have to admit, I

00:31:04.549 --> 00:31:07.750
have to admit, it wasn't great. Okay. And writing

00:31:07.750 --> 00:31:13.200
it was, I think, really painful man because you

00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:16.519
have to keep a narrative consistent over something

00:31:16.519 --> 00:31:21.500
like 50 ,000 words right right and then I mean

00:31:21.500 --> 00:31:27.319
I took some advice from from other from people

00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:29.480
who actually done like TV series right and then

00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:33.200
you know they call it they call it the Bible

00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:35.259
right so in the sense of like let's say your

00:31:35.259 --> 00:31:37.789
character ABC yeah and then there's a whole bible

00:31:37.789 --> 00:31:39.650
about what character a is like this and this

00:31:39.650 --> 00:31:41.269
and this and this character b is like this and

00:31:41.269 --> 00:31:43.410
this so like you so you know to be consistent

00:31:43.410 --> 00:31:45.569
right like if a character is an angry person

00:31:45.569 --> 00:31:47.769
he should be consistently angry right right this

00:31:47.769 --> 00:31:50.809
sort of thing so so i only had three main characters

00:31:50.809 --> 00:31:54.650
and already i found it like so difficult to um

00:31:54.650 --> 00:31:58.730
keep their consistent character characteristics

00:31:58.730 --> 00:32:01.049
yeah yeah and then like i would have to reread

00:32:01.049 --> 00:32:02.829
and reread and reread and then like you know

00:32:02.829 --> 00:32:08.060
and there's a lot of editing and then like So,

00:32:08.060 --> 00:32:11.259
I mean, at least from my point of view, when

00:32:11.259 --> 00:32:13.660
I do a short story, I find it more satisfying

00:32:13.660 --> 00:32:17.279
because it's, as the term suggests, it's a short

00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:20.180
story, right? I mean, even something like as

00:32:20.180 --> 00:32:22.819
interesting as a coffin floating down the river.

00:32:23.380 --> 00:32:25.740
It's like, you want to keep the story interesting

00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:28.319
over 50 ,000 words? It's like, well, you got

00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:30.180
to put a lot more work, man. Now, not to say

00:32:30.180 --> 00:32:34.160
that writing short stories is easy, right? But,

00:32:34.569 --> 00:32:36.950
i kind of i feel like i'm more as a writer and

00:32:36.950 --> 00:32:42.589
built uh better at writing short stories so you

00:32:42.589 --> 00:32:44.529
you acknowledge and realize that this is your

00:32:44.529 --> 00:32:47.069
more your forte then yeah i mean but you know

00:32:47.069 --> 00:32:50.869
like like there were i i've had seen uh quite

00:32:50.869 --> 00:32:52.650
a number of you have told me or i've seen some

00:32:52.650 --> 00:32:54.809
comments on goodreads and whatever they're like

00:32:54.809 --> 00:32:57.490
why do the stories end so abruptly you know like

00:32:57.490 --> 00:33:02.740
i want more of a satisfying payoff but um I mean,

00:33:02.740 --> 00:33:06.500
to me, it's kind of like short and sharp, right?

00:33:06.740 --> 00:33:09.460
I come up with this narrative and then it has

00:33:09.460 --> 00:33:12.400
to have a definite ending there. So, yeah, I

00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:16.539
mean, I really enjoy the short story form. Will

00:33:16.539 --> 00:33:20.180
I ever try and write a novel, right? Depends,

00:33:20.220 --> 00:33:22.519
you know. I have to think very deeply about it.

00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:26.259
Okay, okay, okay. Let's talk about some of your

00:33:26.259 --> 00:33:28.539
stories. We've already talked about Seven Sacks

00:33:28.539 --> 00:33:30.900
of Rice, which is your family story. You brought

00:33:30.900 --> 00:33:32.440
up about the coffin floating down the river.

00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:35.759
You talked about the girl that, you know, seeing

00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:38.720
the other family, the ghostly family in the ATB

00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:44.059
flat. The Queen of Heaven. Can you discuss what

00:33:44.059 --> 00:33:46.579
specific real -life incident was there when this

00:33:46.579 --> 00:33:49.680
is concerned? Is it a real -life incident, cultural

00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:52.339
figure, or traditional reference? I kind of made

00:33:52.339 --> 00:33:56.250
up that story. And then, I mean, the... In terms

00:33:56.250 --> 00:33:59.789
of the truthful aspect of it, it's very tenuous.

00:33:59.950 --> 00:34:03.269
It's just that I took a trip to Taichung and

00:34:03.269 --> 00:34:07.009
then I saw, I really like the temples that I

00:34:07.009 --> 00:34:12.650
saw. And, you know, Taichung, Taiwan. Yeah, Taichung

00:34:12.650 --> 00:34:18.250
in Taiwan. Yeah. So then like, it's a very old

00:34:18.250 --> 00:34:20.809
trope, right? A man falling in love with a ghost.

00:34:21.349 --> 00:34:25.170
Right. So you remember that. that classic movie,

00:34:25.289 --> 00:34:28.110
Hong Kong movie, A Chinese Ghost Story. Oh, yeah.

00:34:28.349 --> 00:34:30.550
Yeah. So, I was thinking of things like that.

00:34:30.650 --> 00:34:32.309
Okay. Yeah, and I was thinking of... That's not

00:34:32.309 --> 00:34:35.230
the PG, that's not the RA one right now. Well,

00:34:35.369 --> 00:34:37.510
I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of sexy

00:34:37.510 --> 00:34:40.190
time in it, but, you know, it's not exactly RA,

00:34:40.389 --> 00:34:43.869
but... Okay, it's like Patrick Swayze in Demi

00:34:43.869 --> 00:34:47.150
Moore's Ghost. I would say it's sexier than that,

00:34:47.230 --> 00:34:50.949
but anyway. Okay. It's Sui Hak, right? So, who

00:34:50.949 --> 00:34:53.210
is like... In Suihak, okay. One of those groundbreaking

00:34:53.210 --> 00:34:55.449
Hong Kong directors. Yeah, yeah, Suihak. So,

00:34:55.449 --> 00:34:57.750
yeah, I was thinking of things like that. I was

00:34:57.750 --> 00:35:02.769
thinking of, you know, all the ghost stories

00:35:02.769 --> 00:35:05.250
you hear as a kid from Chinese culture, right?

00:35:05.489 --> 00:35:07.409
And then I was bringing all of those things to

00:35:07.409 --> 00:35:13.050
bear when I wrote this story. Parts of it are

00:35:13.050 --> 00:35:18.670
true. I mean, this actual temple where, so there

00:35:18.670 --> 00:35:24.019
was like, a rebellion in Taiwan. Or rather, there

00:35:24.019 --> 00:35:26.860
was an attempted rebellion against the Ming Dynasty

00:35:26.860 --> 00:35:28.860
and this dude like fled to Taiwan. He was about

00:35:28.860 --> 00:35:32.019
to, he was going to be overtaken, right? And

00:35:32.019 --> 00:35:36.639
then, he and his five concubines killed themselves.

00:35:37.219 --> 00:35:40.219
So, I had this idea that one of the concubines

00:35:40.219 --> 00:35:45.500
is the youngest, right? And then, she never wanted

00:35:45.500 --> 00:35:48.159
to die. She was still waiting to have a whole

00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:50.739
life and then, years, hundreds of years later,

00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:53.679
she's still at that, at that temple. And then,

00:35:53.739 --> 00:35:57.619
a guy encounters her. Okay. Yeah. So she never

00:35:57.619 --> 00:36:00.380
left that spot. That was my idea. She haunts

00:36:00.380 --> 00:36:02.679
that place. Yeah. I mean, you hear these stories

00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:05.300
all the time, right? So like, I mean, even here,

00:36:05.380 --> 00:36:07.980
you know, like, oh. The old Changi Hospital.

00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:13.699
Yeah. Tegong Camp. Is it Camp 1 or Camp 2? So

00:36:13.699 --> 00:36:16.659
like, you know, that particular door and that

00:36:16.659 --> 00:36:17.960
kind of thing. Oh, Chinese company, the three

00:36:17.960 --> 00:36:20.659
doors. Yes, yes. So like... You should hear my

00:36:20.659 --> 00:36:22.900
story about that. Oh, really? Okay. I mean, I

00:36:22.900 --> 00:36:25.400
love urban legends, right? And there's always

00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:28.659
some kind of truth to it. So in this case, it

00:36:28.659 --> 00:36:33.380
was like, I visited this temple and then years

00:36:33.380 --> 00:36:35.659
later, it was actually in... it was actually

00:36:35.659 --> 00:36:40.539
first included in Felix Chong's collection of

00:36:40.539 --> 00:36:42.260
love stories because he asked me like, do you

00:36:42.260 --> 00:36:43.639
have anything to contribute? Right, right, right.

00:36:43.659 --> 00:36:45.699
So I thought about that and I wrote that. Right.

00:36:45.820 --> 00:36:49.159
Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I love folktales. I love

00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:52.579
urban legends. Okay. Yeah. I love urban legends,

00:36:52.579 --> 00:36:55.800
not so much folktales. Urban legends, I enjoy

00:36:55.800 --> 00:37:02.199
quite a lot. The story titled Mr. Kim. Ah, yes.

00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:05.570
You know what? That is based. on an anecdote.

00:37:06.010 --> 00:37:09.849
Uh -huh. So, because, uh, it was during COVID.

00:37:10.050 --> 00:37:13.690
Yeah. Right. And then, uh, I'm going to get a

00:37:13.690 --> 00:37:17.010
tattoo as you do. Right. And then this, as we

00:37:17.010 --> 00:37:19.989
do. Yeah. So it was in, it's actually in someone's,

00:37:20.010 --> 00:37:22.250
uh, flat. Right. And then, uh, it was kind of

00:37:22.250 --> 00:37:24.849
like a studio, like different artists will come

00:37:24.849 --> 00:37:27.510
in. Okay. Right. So I was going to, I was going

00:37:27.510 --> 00:37:31.929
to tattoo on my pet dog. And then like, So the

00:37:31.929 --> 00:37:33.349
artist was working on me and then there's another

00:37:33.349 --> 00:37:35.489
artist. And then started going on about, hey,

00:37:35.590 --> 00:37:40.389
you know, so -and -so, you know, remember he

00:37:40.389 --> 00:37:42.730
tattooed this Korean guy? Oh, yeah, yeah. Then

00:37:42.730 --> 00:37:44.769
he's blah, blah, blah. It turns out it was so

00:37:44.769 --> 00:37:46.170
-and -so. Then I was like, wait, what, what,

00:37:46.170 --> 00:37:51.289
what? Tell me this again. It was a famous name.

00:37:51.449 --> 00:37:53.309
Yes, a very famous name. Then I was like, what?

00:37:53.949 --> 00:37:56.389
And then I went to do some research. I said,

00:37:56.409 --> 00:37:59.159
yeah, this dude has come to Singapore. And then

00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:03.940
this particular fellow, he goes far and wide.

00:38:04.059 --> 00:38:07.780
And then he has a particular reputation. He hangs

00:38:07.780 --> 00:38:10.820
out with a certain crowd. So I started asking

00:38:10.820 --> 00:38:13.840
for details. I actually first thought of it as

00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:17.039
a news story. But then I thought, this is impossible

00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:21.599
to verify. So I managed to get some details from

00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:25.119
this fellow. The artist is actually his friend.

00:38:25.929 --> 00:38:27.650
I think he kind of basically stopped talking

00:38:27.650 --> 00:38:29.369
to me. Like he, cause I said, I did say I was

00:38:29.369 --> 00:38:30.889
interested in interviewing him. I think I didn't

00:38:30.889 --> 00:38:32.570
want, I guess he didn't want to be interviewed.

00:38:32.710 --> 00:38:34.389
I mean, I wouldn't say the names of these artists.

00:38:34.730 --> 00:38:38.050
So I thought, you know what? I'm going to do

00:38:38.050 --> 00:38:40.369
a fiction story. Right. So then I actually talked

00:38:40.369 --> 00:38:44.110
to other tattoo artists who like were telling

00:38:44.110 --> 00:38:46.090
me like, you know, a tattoo artist is almost

00:38:46.090 --> 00:38:48.449
like a, it's almost like a priest or like a bartender.

00:38:48.610 --> 00:38:50.630
People come in and have these confessionals.

00:38:50.630 --> 00:38:53.469
Right. And then like, you know, like I was talking

00:38:53.469 --> 00:38:57.329
to a guy, he's the husband of a friend of a friend.

00:38:57.429 --> 00:38:59.989
So, he was saying, he get things like, you know,

00:39:00.010 --> 00:39:01.889
people come in and start talking, oh, you know,

00:39:01.949 --> 00:39:03.730
yeah, you know, my father used to chain me to

00:39:03.730 --> 00:39:06.429
the toilet while he's doing the tattoo and then

00:39:06.429 --> 00:39:09.150
it's like, wait, what? So, you know, these very

00:39:09.150 --> 00:39:12.329
personal stories come out, right? And then, so,

00:39:12.469 --> 00:39:15.190
in terms of this very particular famous Mr. Kim,

00:39:15.369 --> 00:39:17.030
right, I thought, you know what, I'm going to

00:39:17.030 --> 00:39:20.019
story out of that. Okay. This is how the origin

00:39:20.019 --> 00:39:21.619
of the story actually came from something you've

00:39:21.619 --> 00:39:24.019
heard about. And it was, I mean, it was like

00:39:24.019 --> 00:39:26.840
secondhand, but I mean, it sounded credible to

00:39:26.840 --> 00:39:29.820
me. Okay. There were these particular details

00:39:29.820 --> 00:39:32.139
you give like, you know, Mr. Kim, like bags of

00:39:32.139 --> 00:39:34.019
cash, stacks of cash. And he comes and walks

00:39:34.019 --> 00:39:35.519
around with an entourage. Yeah, and he's like,

00:39:35.559 --> 00:39:37.019
how much is it today? Then he just peels out

00:39:37.019 --> 00:39:39.440
this cash. It's like, what? What's the moral

00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:41.880
of the story for this? What's the baggage to

00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:44.460
it, man? Baggage? I mean, well, I mean, the baggage

00:39:44.460 --> 00:39:47.710
would be the... people will come in and like,

00:39:47.869 --> 00:39:50.190
why do they get tattoos? Right? Like, I mean,

00:39:50.250 --> 00:39:52.849
then like somebody was telling me that this is

00:39:52.849 --> 00:39:55.650
in the story. So this artist told me that somebody

00:39:55.650 --> 00:39:59.309
came in and like, I want to, I want to tattoo

00:39:59.309 --> 00:40:02.130
my wife's IC number on my chest. Then I was like,

00:40:02.289 --> 00:40:07.369
no. So I asked the artist, do you, do you, you

00:40:07.369 --> 00:40:09.530
know, when people come in and they come in late

00:40:09.530 --> 00:40:11.429
at night and then they're often drunk or what,

00:40:11.469 --> 00:40:13.550
right? So like, I said, do you try to dissuade

00:40:13.550 --> 00:40:16.500
them? He said, That's not my job, man. Really?

00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:21.780
Yeah. Oh, actually, I don't know. I'm not going

00:40:21.780 --> 00:40:24.239
to mention the name of the studio, but it's a

00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:26.920
very, very, very, very famous one. When the ships

00:40:26.920 --> 00:40:28.940
come into town, they definitely go there. I think

00:40:28.940 --> 00:40:30.480
I know that one. The one in Faiz Plaza. I know

00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:35.059
that one, yeah. And the famous guy that's there,

00:40:35.139 --> 00:40:39.380
right, comes up with, he has this rule. If you

00:40:39.380 --> 00:40:43.380
want a portrait of a family member, inked on

00:40:43.380 --> 00:40:48.219
you and a family member is still around, he won't

00:40:48.219 --> 00:40:51.019
do it. Oh, really? Yeah. He has a rule. As a

00:40:51.019 --> 00:40:54.219
matter of fact, that rule goes across this entire

00:40:54.219 --> 00:40:57.719
studio. None of his artists are allowed. What's

00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:02.400
the reason? Because pantang. Ah, okay. If they're

00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:05.739
still around and you have it, you're having them

00:41:05.739 --> 00:41:10.480
memorialized on your skin and the people are

00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:15.699
still here. And he just doesn't want it. He doesn't

00:41:15.699 --> 00:41:18.840
allow that to happen. I know a lot of studios

00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:21.760
actually just go ahead and get it done. I know

00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:25.079
of fans and all that. No disrespect or judging

00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:28.639
what they've done. They've had it done elsewhere.

00:41:29.380 --> 00:41:33.079
But this particular one, they won't do. It's

00:41:33.079 --> 00:41:36.840
not a fact personally. I'm an inked guy. But

00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:39.739
personally, I wouldn't do it either. Well, I

00:41:39.739 --> 00:41:43.320
mean, my dog is still very much alive and well.

00:41:43.480 --> 00:41:50.139
It was kind of like their sense of life. I know

00:41:50.139 --> 00:41:52.800
that my time with her, our time with her is limited.

00:41:52.940 --> 00:41:56.500
Yeah. But I want her to be with me forever. Yeah.

00:41:56.619 --> 00:41:59.780
And, you know, one day she will go and it will

00:41:59.780 --> 00:42:05.659
be very, very painful. So, but even while she's

00:42:05.659 --> 00:42:07.900
around, I want her to be with me always. Yeah.

00:42:07.940 --> 00:42:11.239
I understand that completely. Believe me. Yeah.

00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:14.079
I've lost the last one I've had. Right. And it

00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:16.619
wasn't just heartbreaking, it was shattering.

00:42:17.260 --> 00:42:21.280
Yeah. Yeah. It was terrible. Really. Yeah, I

00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:22.440
understand. I know where you're coming from.

00:42:22.760 --> 00:42:27.739
But there's a dog. Well, then the question would

00:42:27.739 --> 00:42:31.090
be, do dogs have souls, right? I would think,

00:42:31.090 --> 00:42:34.849
well, I mean, I'm going to have some people who

00:42:34.849 --> 00:42:37.070
actually, you know, probably give me the finger

00:42:37.070 --> 00:42:40.630
with what I'm about to say. I should think, why

00:42:40.630 --> 00:42:45.429
not? I think, even though I'm Catholic, I would

00:42:45.429 --> 00:42:48.650
say that everything that is of God's creation

00:42:48.650 --> 00:42:53.530
is loved by God. You know, so, and I do think

00:42:53.530 --> 00:42:56.829
so because I've had my encounters. Wow. Yeah,

00:42:56.949 --> 00:43:02.070
yeah, with my last one. believe it or not and

00:43:02.070 --> 00:43:08.769
I know for a fact that he is around when we need

00:43:08.769 --> 00:43:13.809
him around even when we don't know we need him

00:43:13.809 --> 00:43:18.210
he's around so it's yeah so it's kind of interesting

00:43:18.210 --> 00:43:21.829
chicken task force you know what that is do you

00:43:21.829 --> 00:43:23.949
know that is a real thing that's an actual thing

00:43:23.949 --> 00:43:28.679
okay because okay So a bit of background here.

00:43:28.820 --> 00:43:33.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was at Yahoo News when

00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:38.079
COVID started. Okay. And then I covered COVID

00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:43.199
for a good like two years. And then like, so

00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:46.880
I went to, I must have gone to like maybe 75,

00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:50.800
80 % of all the COVID task force press conferences.

00:43:50.940 --> 00:43:52.800
The inter -ministerial task force, yeah? Yeah.

00:43:52.820 --> 00:43:55.800
So the... multi -ministry task force, right?

00:43:55.880 --> 00:43:58.480
So then, fronted by Lawrence Wong and Ong Yi

00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:01.659
Kang. Yeah. And the thing was that, you know,

00:44:01.699 --> 00:44:04.639
so Bertha can also tell you this, right? For

00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:09.340
ministers to have regular press conferences with

00:44:09.340 --> 00:44:13.059
both local and foreign media is extremely rare.

00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:17.079
other than COVID, I'm trying to recall when was

00:44:17.079 --> 00:44:18.800
the last time they did this sort of thing on

00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:21.079
a regular basis. I don't know. Maybe Bertha might

00:44:21.079 --> 00:44:24.280
know. So the thing was that, Yeah, so I covered

00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:30.659
it so many times, right? And then, of course,

00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:33.699
it left a very deep impression on me. Now, the

00:44:33.699 --> 00:44:37.059
chicken task force is an actual thing because

00:44:37.059 --> 00:44:40.019
there were, it was somewhere in Bishan, right?

00:44:40.119 --> 00:44:42.239
And there were this surfeit of chickens who were

00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:44.599
like making a lot of noise and causing like,

00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:46.820
as they call it, disamenities, whatever that

00:44:46.820 --> 00:44:50.360
means. So, and then like, so. the government,

00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:52.000
then you can find the Straits Times story in

00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:54.480
it. So they actually formed a chicken task force.

00:44:54.599 --> 00:44:57.239
Oh gosh. And then like, you know, there's details

00:44:57.239 --> 00:44:59.079
about, well, we've put nets, we've got people

00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:01.960
to collect these chicken eggs so they don't reproduce.

00:45:02.460 --> 00:45:04.159
And then like, it was like, and then the story

00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:06.820
was just reported very straightforward, very

00:45:06.820 --> 00:45:09.900
straight. And I'm like, why are there no puns

00:45:09.900 --> 00:45:12.139
about chickens in this story? Why is no foul

00:45:12.139 --> 00:45:15.579
play? You know, like, don't count your eggs before

00:45:15.579 --> 00:45:19.260
they hatch, that kind of thing. I wrote Chicken

00:45:19.260 --> 00:45:22.659
Task Force kind of like as a parody of the COVID

00:45:22.659 --> 00:45:26.199
task force because I think, you know, we do have

00:45:26.199 --> 00:45:30.599
a very efficient civil service, right? Bureaucratic

00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:33.760
as hell. You know, I've seen worse in other countries,

00:45:33.820 --> 00:45:38.619
man. But, so like, But the civil service is kind

00:45:38.619 --> 00:45:40.619
of ripe for satire, right? Because all these

00:45:40.619 --> 00:45:43.079
bureaucratic processes, and then they invent

00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:45.179
their own words like inputs. Yeah. You know,

00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:50.239
so I wrote it as a spoof of the COVID task force.

00:45:50.300 --> 00:45:51.980
And then there are some incidents in there, right,

00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:56.619
where kind of like... reporter kind of confronts

00:45:56.619 --> 00:45:58.360
the newsmaker. Those things actually happen.

00:45:58.599 --> 00:46:02.420
But not in COVID. I saw them for myself. So I

00:46:02.420 --> 00:46:05.500
included that in the story. But you know, funny

00:46:05.500 --> 00:46:07.079
you should mention that because I have been on

00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:11.119
this tirade about this chicken thing on my socials.

00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:14.260
Make a lot of noises. No, I am against people

00:46:14.260 --> 00:46:17.360
who want to have them removed. Okay. Because

00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:21.349
it's ridiculous. We got people complaining about

00:46:21.349 --> 00:46:23.690
just practically about everything. And I really

00:46:23.690 --> 00:46:25.630
don't think we need to have a fucking task force

00:46:25.630 --> 00:46:28.889
for everything. We look at chicken. I got this

00:46:28.889 --> 00:46:33.670
white, lovely chicken. Is it a, is it a Polish

00:46:33.670 --> 00:46:36.150
chicken? I don't know what freaking chicken is.

00:46:36.210 --> 00:46:38.909
There's such a thing. There was a dude, right?

00:46:38.949 --> 00:46:41.630
Who they, I mean, he interviewed him and he was

00:46:41.630 --> 00:46:43.929
breeding like Polish chickens in his flat. Right.

00:46:45.070 --> 00:46:47.690
I can't remember whether he was selling them

00:46:47.690 --> 00:46:49.429
because there was a period when there was a,

00:46:49.610 --> 00:46:51.710
It became fashionable to have a Polish chicken

00:46:51.710 --> 00:46:53.630
as a pet. If you Google them, they do look quite

00:46:53.630 --> 00:46:56.550
unusual. You mean they look furry? They have

00:46:56.550 --> 00:46:58.989
this sort of weird comb on top. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:46:59.309 --> 00:47:00.690
If you Google it, you see the picture. Yeah,

00:47:00.690 --> 00:47:02.289
I think I know what you're talking about. I've

00:47:02.289 --> 00:47:05.030
got several chicken things, man, that has happened

00:47:05.030 --> 00:47:08.170
that I just cannot stomach. There's a guy. Okay,

00:47:08.230 --> 00:47:11.150
first of all, the white lovely hen that's around

00:47:11.150 --> 00:47:15.289
Bedok North Avenue 2. Yeah. I see it all the

00:47:15.289 --> 00:47:17.690
time in a nearby coffee shop. It's been there

00:47:17.690 --> 00:47:19.809
since it was a chick. The people around it, the

00:47:19.809 --> 00:47:22.570
regulars that I go PTM, seen it grow. They also,

00:47:22.769 --> 00:47:24.429
you know, sometimes give it some food to eat

00:47:24.429 --> 00:47:26.929
and all that. And it grew. And then, and it's

00:47:26.929 --> 00:47:29.590
always around, you know. Then one day, after

00:47:29.590 --> 00:47:32.449
months and months, I bring my mom there for acupuncture.

00:47:32.489 --> 00:47:35.630
So I see this chicken. So we've been going there

00:47:35.630 --> 00:47:37.590
for about coming two years already. I bring my

00:47:37.590 --> 00:47:40.269
mom once a week to just go there. And we have

00:47:40.269 --> 00:47:44.019
coffee that I always, you know. I go have a cigarette

00:47:44.019 --> 00:47:45.800
somewhere and the chicken's always around me.

00:47:46.059 --> 00:47:48.119
It's kind of cool. I have a couple of chats with

00:47:48.119 --> 00:47:51.099
that chicken. Then one fine day, it disappeared.

00:47:52.099 --> 00:47:54.079
Then I came back the following week, still wasn't

00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:56.739
around. Then I met some of the regulars at a

00:47:56.739 --> 00:47:58.800
coffee shop and I asked, what happened to that

00:47:58.800 --> 00:48:02.900
chicken? Oh, NEA came to take it away. And I

00:48:02.900 --> 00:48:08.480
went, what? Why? Complaints. What? Why? Cucking

00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:10.960
too much. It doesn't crow, it's a freaking hen.

00:48:13.139 --> 00:48:16.099
Clocking. And I'm like, are you freaking kidding

00:48:16.099 --> 00:48:19.260
me? They're never mind. Where I live, we have

00:48:19.260 --> 00:48:22.820
this lovely garden and they grow all kinds of

00:48:22.820 --> 00:48:26.719
stuff. And they used to have a coop. And in that

00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:30.000
coop, there are about three, four very unusual

00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:33.780
types of chicken. And they are so cute, you know.

00:48:34.019 --> 00:48:38.039
But yeah, of course they crow. neighborhood people

00:48:38.039 --> 00:48:41.820
living around they complain about the crowing

00:48:41.820 --> 00:48:47.539
I like to tell people that you know there's always

00:48:47.539 --> 00:48:50.760
a lot written about oh Singapore's not very democratic

00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:54.059
you know and they don't you know there's not

00:48:54.059 --> 00:48:55.900
enough civil liberties and all that but in some

00:48:55.900 --> 00:48:58.400
ways we are incredibly democratic because like

00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:01.820
one complaint right is enough to set an agency

00:49:01.820 --> 00:49:05.840
in motion yeah like like what oh okay that was

00:49:05.840 --> 00:49:08.320
fast Well, I'll give you some more fodder, man.

00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:11.719
Here's one more about chicken. Last one. Around

00:49:11.719 --> 00:49:13.860
this neighborhood, there's this guy. And when

00:49:13.860 --> 00:49:16.619
I moved in here not long ago, I noticed him because

00:49:16.619 --> 00:49:19.400
when he rides his bicycle, his chicken is on

00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:23.159
the handlebar, standing proudly. It's a rooster.

00:49:23.619 --> 00:49:27.300
And it's such a sight to see. And he loves that

00:49:27.300 --> 00:49:30.420
chicken. One day, it came out in the papers.

00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:33.900
It came out. It was reported. His chicken went

00:49:33.900 --> 00:49:39.219
missing. Oh. Right? About a couple of days after

00:49:39.219 --> 00:49:42.219
he noticed his chicken went missing, somebody

00:49:42.219 --> 00:49:46.900
left nicely on some cloth where the chicken used

00:49:46.900 --> 00:49:53.820
to be in that cage. Bones. And he was heartbroken

00:49:53.820 --> 00:49:57.199
because he's a single man. He's not young. He's

00:49:57.199 --> 00:49:59.559
had that, read that chicken since it was a chick.

00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:04.559
It became his best friend. And I just think,

00:50:04.909 --> 00:50:09.190
The asshole that did this, I better not say anymore,

00:50:09.269 --> 00:50:12.070
otherwise I get arrested. But I just think that

00:50:12.070 --> 00:50:15.969
it is just ridiculous. And why are people like

00:50:15.969 --> 00:50:18.949
this? Pickleball is the latest thing I've been

00:50:18.949 --> 00:50:21.469
bitching about this entire season. I mean, come

00:50:21.469 --> 00:50:24.670
on, give it a rest. If you live in a private

00:50:24.670 --> 00:50:27.809
estate, in a condo with tennis courts, it's a

00:50:27.809 --> 00:50:31.130
lot louder than the pickleball. But you sit there,

00:50:31.230 --> 00:50:35.050
you stand there and enjoy the games. I used to

00:50:35.050 --> 00:50:37.429
have that. I used to stand on my balcony in my

00:50:37.429 --> 00:50:40.469
condo. I had four tennis courts in front of me

00:50:40.469 --> 00:50:43.789
and I just enjoyed the matches. Live and let

00:50:43.789 --> 00:50:47.969
live. I mean, come on. We complain about chickens

00:50:47.969 --> 00:50:51.170
crowing. And I've even heard about people complaining

00:50:51.170 --> 00:50:53.369
about birds squawking. I got to say this one

00:50:53.369 --> 00:50:57.510
thing. So my sister -in -law is from China. Now

00:50:57.510 --> 00:51:02.239
she's a citizen now. And I remember like, after

00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:04.300
she got, she went through her ceremony. I told

00:51:04.300 --> 00:51:06.039
her, you know, now that you're a Singaporean,

00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:09.019
you must learn how to complain. Otherwise, you're

00:51:09.019 --> 00:51:16.360
not a true Singaporean. Oh, man. This complaint

00:51:16.360 --> 00:51:18.639
culture. If you talk about baggage, I mean, we

00:51:18.639 --> 00:51:21.099
got one huge freaking one on the entire, on the

00:51:21.099 --> 00:51:23.599
backs of practically all of us. And there's a

00:51:23.599 --> 00:51:28.260
KPKB baggage. Oh, well. Yeah, man. It's in our

00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:34.369
nature. Oh, man. Shucks. Okay. When you're writing

00:51:34.369 --> 00:51:37.929
stories, it completely makes facts and fantasy.

00:51:38.989 --> 00:51:43.469
Is your aim simply to entertain? Or do you hope

00:51:43.469 --> 00:51:46.010
to change the way readers look at specific everyday

00:51:46.010 --> 00:51:48.789
places or common events in Singapore? Well, I

00:51:48.789 --> 00:51:54.510
think, you know, I mean, first and foremost,

00:51:54.570 --> 00:51:57.250
it's about crafting an interesting story. Right.

00:51:57.389 --> 00:52:01.679
So, I mean, It's very similar with news, right?

00:52:01.800 --> 00:52:05.039
Yeah. It starts at the headline. It's got to

00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:07.460
have an arresting headline that grabs people's

00:52:07.460 --> 00:52:10.079
attention. Okay. And then, you know, it's got

00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:12.900
to be worth your while, right? So, you know,

00:52:12.920 --> 00:52:15.260
one thing I always tell the young reporters is

00:52:15.260 --> 00:52:19.380
that, is that question, so what, right? When

00:52:19.380 --> 00:52:23.239
a reader sees your headline, the question will

00:52:23.239 --> 00:52:24.800
be, well, so what? Why should I click on it?

00:52:24.900 --> 00:52:26.199
Why should I read it? Why should I read it to

00:52:26.199 --> 00:52:29.570
the end? Right? So in the same way, I mean, with

00:52:29.570 --> 00:52:34.829
fiction, it's about crafting a compelling narrative

00:52:34.829 --> 00:52:39.030
and, you know, building that realistic world,

00:52:39.230 --> 00:52:42.590
showing the inner world of the characters. And

00:52:42.590 --> 00:52:47.590
I think the fact that, you know, these stories

00:52:47.590 --> 00:52:51.250
are based on true events and somewhat true and

00:52:51.250 --> 00:52:54.389
true stories and true events. I think it gives

00:52:54.389 --> 00:52:56.880
it. it kind of like tantalizes the reader, right?

00:52:56.920 --> 00:52:59.099
The possibility that, oh wow, could something

00:52:59.099 --> 00:53:01.360
like this really happen? Or did something like

00:53:01.360 --> 00:53:03.980
this really happen? So the only 100 % true story

00:53:03.980 --> 00:53:07.400
there is the one about my grandmother, right?

00:53:07.460 --> 00:53:12.179
So, I mean, even the ending where, where, you

00:53:12.179 --> 00:53:14.840
know, the narrator and his mother go to this

00:53:14.840 --> 00:53:18.699
place, right? That really did happen, right?

00:53:21.159 --> 00:53:27.000
I think, you know, it's that whole, Hollywood

00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:29.019
thing, right? Based on a true story. Although

00:53:29.019 --> 00:53:31.139
not this, like people understand that based on

00:53:31.139 --> 00:53:33.320
a true story isn't really based on a true story.

00:53:33.400 --> 00:53:35.980
They took a lot of liberties and all that. Everybody's

00:53:35.980 --> 00:53:37.840
just admitted usually at the beginning of each

00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:40.840
movie or TV show. Not this, like they even like,

00:53:40.940 --> 00:53:44.619
sometimes they even play it up, right? They'll

00:53:44.619 --> 00:53:46.380
say things like, well, it's kind of true, you

00:53:46.380 --> 00:53:50.639
know? So in my case, it was about, you know,

00:53:50.639 --> 00:53:53.510
what were the things that made me what are the

00:53:53.510 --> 00:53:54.949
incidents that stay in my mind? What are the

00:53:54.949 --> 00:53:56.909
things that make me think, wow, I want to find

00:53:56.909 --> 00:54:00.809
out more, man. What happened here? So another

00:54:00.809 --> 00:54:05.190
example, the woodcutter. Yeah. That's based on

00:54:05.190 --> 00:54:08.869
a Korean folktale. Okay. That's also included

00:54:08.869 --> 00:54:13.289
in Epigram's new short story collection. Okay.

00:54:13.489 --> 00:54:16.809
But this one was first published in my book by

00:54:16.809 --> 00:54:21.309
Marshall Cavendish. A Korean friend told me,

00:54:21.389 --> 00:54:24.349
she's half Korean, right? Father is Singaporean.

00:54:24.989 --> 00:54:29.730
She said that her grandfather was taken away

00:54:29.730 --> 00:54:31.769
by the Japanese during the war. Now, this is

00:54:31.769 --> 00:54:34.190
very well documented, like war labor, right?

00:54:34.250 --> 00:54:37.949
Forced labor, in fact. He was taken away to Japan

00:54:37.949 --> 00:54:41.929
during the war and somehow he found his way back

00:54:41.929 --> 00:54:43.550
after the war. A lot of people didn't, right?

00:54:43.650 --> 00:54:46.590
They died or they never came back or whatever.

00:54:47.440 --> 00:54:50.420
So she was telling me the story about how one

00:54:50.420 --> 00:54:53.880
day he was drunk and he suddenly blurted out,

00:54:53.940 --> 00:54:56.280
well, when I was in Japan, I married someone

00:54:56.280 --> 00:55:04.199
and we had a kid, right? So, and I'm not sure

00:55:04.199 --> 00:55:05.980
exactly what happened after that, but it was

00:55:05.980 --> 00:55:08.360
like, and a lot of these things happened during

00:55:08.360 --> 00:55:10.639
the war, right? People were separated, people

00:55:10.639 --> 00:55:13.780
were taken away and then, you know, they had

00:55:13.780 --> 00:55:18.079
relationships with whoever. So, I heard that

00:55:18.079 --> 00:55:20.019
and then I tried to find out more. She wasn't

00:55:20.019 --> 00:55:22.739
very sure herself, right? And then I took that,

00:55:22.760 --> 00:55:25.420
I took that little anecdote, right? And initially

00:55:25.420 --> 00:55:29.219
I, because she, she used to joke that I can't

00:55:29.219 --> 00:55:31.119
date Japanese guys. What if one of them is my

00:55:31.119 --> 00:55:37.460
cousin? So, so initially my idea was like, this

00:55:37.460 --> 00:55:39.860
character has a cousin in Japan and then you

00:55:39.860 --> 00:55:42.960
kind of like sort of somehow sort of a long distance

00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:47.719
connection. But then when I was in Seoul some

00:55:47.719 --> 00:55:51.300
years back, and then I was asking a Korean friend,

00:55:51.420 --> 00:55:56.179
where can I find a collection of Korean folktales?

00:55:56.199 --> 00:55:58.099
And I didn't have this story in mind at first,

00:55:58.179 --> 00:56:00.360
right? So she pointed me to this particular collection.

00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:03.639
And then I read about the Woodcutter, which is

00:56:03.639 --> 00:56:06.639
actually a very famous folktale in Korea. And

00:56:06.639 --> 00:56:08.800
then I thought, you know what? I'm going to tell

00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:12.940
the story of this man through allegory. And then

00:56:12.940 --> 00:56:15.639
I will kind of like flip back and forth between

00:56:15.639 --> 00:56:20.139
the modern day and this era of the folktale.

00:56:21.039 --> 00:56:24.219
But it's an allegory about how he was taken away

00:56:24.219 --> 00:56:29.820
by the Japanese. And that ending is made up,

00:56:29.860 --> 00:56:33.909
right? But then again, it's about... Like I said

00:56:33.909 --> 00:56:37.090
earlier, I love folktales because I think it

00:56:37.090 --> 00:56:38.849
tells you so much about a particular culture,

00:56:39.030 --> 00:56:40.949
about the kind of concerns that they had, the

00:56:40.949 --> 00:56:43.730
things that they value and all that. So I told

00:56:43.730 --> 00:56:45.369
the story through that because also bearing in

00:56:45.369 --> 00:56:48.469
mind that we hear it all the time, people who

00:56:48.469 --> 00:56:50.849
lived during the war, that particular generation,

00:56:51.150 --> 00:56:54.690
they find it very hard to talk about what happened,

00:56:54.809 --> 00:57:00.150
that great trauma that they went through. So

00:57:00.150 --> 00:57:02.579
I thought, you know, Allegory would be the best

00:57:02.579 --> 00:57:05.960
way to tell this story. Okay. Yeah. What's next

00:57:05.960 --> 00:57:10.679
for Nicholas Yeung? Fiction -wise, I haven't

00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:12.320
really thought about it, man. I mean, I do have

00:57:12.320 --> 00:57:13.980
some ideas. Are you working on something now,

00:57:14.019 --> 00:57:17.199
presently? Not actively, but I do have some ideas.

00:57:20.760 --> 00:57:24.519
You know, it's these things that you read about

00:57:24.519 --> 00:57:31.980
along the way, little things about like the sometime

00:57:31.980 --> 00:57:37.820
in the 50s I think there was actually a department

00:57:37.820 --> 00:57:41.460
in the UK let me see if I remember this correctly

00:57:41.460 --> 00:57:47.480
they actually kept track of people who made predictions

00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:49.519
about the future there was an actual government

00:57:49.519 --> 00:57:51.739
department so this dude wrote a book about it

00:57:51.739 --> 00:57:54.820
so you talk to these people who have predicted

00:57:54.820 --> 00:57:56.460
and say oh wow did it come true and things like

00:57:56.460 --> 00:57:59.059
that and then I started wondering like Wow, if

00:57:59.059 --> 00:58:01.980
only we had a department like that here. Maybe

00:58:01.980 --> 00:58:05.639
we do. Yeah, well, maybe. What kind of characters

00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:10.360
would populate this particular department? And

00:58:10.360 --> 00:58:12.800
you know, urban legends, like the one about the

00:58:12.800 --> 00:58:15.019
dollar coin, right? Yeah, yeah, okay. So things

00:58:15.019 --> 00:58:17.739
like that. And especially like, I mean, Chinese

00:58:17.739 --> 00:58:20.320
people are so superstitious, right? So it really

00:58:20.320 --> 00:58:21.920
wouldn't surprise me that much if there actually

00:58:21.920 --> 00:58:25.260
was some kind of consideration of like feng shui,

00:58:25.320 --> 00:58:30.019
you know, in like, in building things or making

00:58:30.019 --> 00:58:31.619
certain decisions. I mean, even something like

00:58:31.619 --> 00:58:33.440
SunTech. Yeah. I mean, it's the power of the

00:58:33.440 --> 00:58:37.099
Buddha, right? Yeah. So, yeah, those kind of

00:58:37.099 --> 00:58:39.219
things like stay with me. But there is a book,

00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:41.780
you know, locally written and published years

00:58:41.780 --> 00:58:44.400
ago. About? About Feng Shui and the infrastructure

00:58:44.400 --> 00:58:47.360
in Singapore. Oh, okay. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah.

00:58:47.500 --> 00:58:52.199
Yeah. So I have... Like why our electrical power

00:58:52.199 --> 00:58:56.199
lines are underground instead of overhead? Oh,

00:58:56.219 --> 00:58:58.539
really? Yeah. Okay. I'm going to go check that

00:58:58.539 --> 00:59:03.000
out. Go, go check it out, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:59:03.000 --> 00:59:05.360
Kind of interesting. And I think there's, if

00:59:05.360 --> 00:59:08.219
I can say corrected, I think there's one about

00:59:08.219 --> 00:59:13.480
why the Esplanade looks like durians. Maybe there's

00:59:13.480 --> 00:59:15.039
some spirit involved. I don't know. I don't know.

00:59:15.079 --> 00:59:18.239
I don't know. I read that book. That was ages

00:59:18.239 --> 00:59:21.650
ago. but somebody came up with that already so

00:59:21.650 --> 00:59:24.130
but it'd be interesting for you you know you

00:59:24.130 --> 00:59:26.369
could be an interesting source as well for whatever

00:59:26.369 --> 00:59:28.469
you plan to do you know it sounds interesting

00:59:28.469 --> 00:59:32.710
go check it out man yeah yeah but uh where can

00:59:32.710 --> 00:59:36.949
people go uh purchase your book seven sacks of

00:59:36.949 --> 00:59:38.949
rice and other baggages where can they go uh

00:59:38.949 --> 00:59:42.800
it's available on the Epigram website. Epigram

00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:48.159
website, people. Amazon. Amazon, guys. I think

00:59:48.159 --> 00:59:50.559
Kino should still have it. And Kinokuniya. Yeah.

00:59:51.079 --> 00:59:54.139
Okay. On the shelves, Kinokuniya. Online or on

00:59:54.139 --> 00:59:58.980
the shelves? Both. I can't remember. I haven't

00:59:58.980 --> 01:00:00.840
checked it in a while. Safest, go online. Okay.

01:00:01.039 --> 01:00:04.400
All right. So go get yourself a copy, guys. It's

01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:06.940
a good read, okay? Kind of fun. So you heard

01:00:06.940 --> 01:00:10.730
us talk about it. Nicholas very artfully ensured

01:00:10.730 --> 01:00:13.869
that he didn't really spill all, everything out

01:00:13.869 --> 01:00:16.590
in my episode of Ink Spill so that you can actually

01:00:16.590 --> 01:00:20.050
buy the book and still yet be surprised by what

01:00:20.050 --> 01:00:22.690
you find, okay? So go get yourselves a copy.

01:00:22.889 --> 01:00:24.909
Thanks for being with me, man. Thank you, man.

01:00:25.030 --> 01:00:27.170
Appreciate it, mate, really. And I wish you the

01:00:27.170 --> 01:00:30.010
best. Okay, everybody, this is the last, final

01:00:30.010 --> 01:00:33.610
episode for the Ink Spill series. When we come

01:00:33.610 --> 01:00:39.289
back next Friday. It will be the long -awaited

01:00:39.289 --> 01:00:43.309
and the only episode for this season of UFO Reveal

01:00:43.309 --> 01:00:47.110
Asia. Boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, have we got

01:00:47.110 --> 01:00:51.050
lots of crazy shit to tell you. Just give you

01:00:51.050 --> 01:00:55.750
a hint, yeah? The Americans, well, most of the

01:00:55.750 --> 01:00:58.929
very important government officers have come

01:00:58.929 --> 01:01:02.489
out to say, they're here, they're real, we are

01:01:02.489 --> 01:01:06.429
not alone. So catch me and Ignatius Bong next

01:01:06.429 --> 01:01:10.210
week for Euphorus. Until then, stay safe, everybody.

01:01:10.369 --> 01:01:12.389
Same time, same place, same channel, 8 p .m.

01:01:12.389 --> 01:01:13.289
Friday. Bye -bye.