Tonight, we are joined by an author who has spent
his career examining the power and limits of
the written word. Our guest is Nicholas Young.
For more than 15 years, Nicholas was a journalist
and editor specializing in political analysis
and in -depth long -form news features. Now,
he uses that keen journalistic eye that search
for the actual incident to explore the hidden
tensions of the city -state, through fiction
his latest work is a collection of 10 short stories
seven sacks of rice and other baggage nicholas
calls his work faction as it blends stories inspired
by true events and personal family history with
traditional folk tales and persistent urban legends
from the haunting mysteries of city life to the
weight of inherited trauma this book explores
the things we carry It challenges the reader
to decide which tales are fact and which are
simply stories we wish were true. So they actually
formed a chicken task force. Oh gosh. Details
about, well, we've put nets, we've got people
to collect these chicken eggs so they don't reproduce.
And then the story was just reported very straightforward,
very straight. And I'm like... Why are there
no puns about chickens in this story? Why is
no foul play? You know, like, no, don't count
your eggs before you hatch, that kind of thing.
So, I wrote Chicken Task Force kind of like as
a parody of the COVID task force. Before we begin
the show, here is an important announcement.
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Now, let's start the show. Hi, everybody. Welcome
back to this episode of the Chris Hansen Conversation.
We are still on Ink Spill. As a matter of fact,
this will be the final episode of our series,
Ink Spill, where we spill the ink on some good
literary works coming out of our local authors,
writers, poets, even graphic animation specialists,
experts, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. So to give these
guys a little edge, just a little edge, and to
encourage you. the viewer, the listener, please,
books are still better. Okay. Okay. So stop scrolling
down, up and down your damn screens, unless you're
watching me, that is. And just pick up a good
book and read. And this is one good book that
we would like to recommend to you on this episode.
And on the final episode of Ming Spill once again,
and I have with me in studio, author of the book,
Seven Sacks of Rice. Wow. I've got to get my
tongue going. Seven Sacks of Rice and Other Baggages.
And he is Nicholas Yong. Welcome to the studio,
Nicholas. Thank you for having me. Not at all.
Hey, chill out, bro. Chill a little bit. This
is a conversation, man. This is a chill out show.
You know, we normally don't take ourselves very
seriously. We're going to talk about you first
before we head to the book. Okay? 15 years you
worked as a journalist. Next year is going to
be 20 years, man. oh crap really my research
is bad then i uh so yeah uh i worked in like
i started out at uh media court radio ouch then
yeah for not not very long then i went on to
uh the straits times uh i one of the people who
hired me was a certain uh Might know her. I'm
pretty sure I know her, yeah. I think her name's
Bertha. Oh, triple ouch. Okay. So, yeah, I was
there for quite a long time. Then my longest
stay was at Yahoo News. I was there for almost
a decade. Wow. Yeah. Then I went on to the BBC
and currently I'm freelancing, but I'm doing
a contract role at, right now, at the News Storm.
You know, they've combined with the newspaper.
Oh, gosh. Yeah. Oh, man. You had stomp, huh?
Yeah. Oh, man. I better not say too much. Oh,
boy. Oh, let me have a sip of water first. Stomp.
Oh. I mean, why did you... I'm sorry. I just
have to do this. Why did you leave the BBC? I
mean, it's like the place to be, isn't it? I
think I better not say too much about that. Oh,
really? Yeah. I mean, I'm just like that, you
know. But I mean, I've been in journalism for
so long, kind of. I think I'm dyed in the wool,
right? So, you know, a lot of times people would
ask, well, why don't you go on to work in comms?
And it's something I can't do. Like, you know,
I mean, going back to Bertha, right? So, I think
my formative years were at ST. under like supervisors
like her and uh dominic nathan and i don't know
you know these names yes i do yeah so you know
i i think that's why that was my training ground
as a journalist and um you know it's i mean right
now i i i train like young writers and reporters
right it didn't come from a journalism background
so i mean i tell them you know from from my point
of view i see it as a as a vocation, as a calling.
Not everybody has the temperament for it and
that's fine. I tell them like, you know, you
have to figure out how far you're prepared to
push, you know, whether this job is for you or
not. And it can be, I mean, I've known a lot
of good reporters along the way who left because
they kind of got burned out. They didn't like
certain aspects of the job. You know, they were
good at it, but they didn't like. certain things
about it. Yeah. Okay. So, and you know, they've
gone on to really good careers in other things,
you know, and we're still in touch with my friends
and all. I want to kind of like, when I look
back now, I realize I'm one of the last men standing.
Okay. And it's not a matter of, you know, like,
you know, it's not about self -praise. It's not
about, oh, look at me, I lasted. It's not about
that. It's just that it's something that I want
to stay with, you know, journalists for life.
I know what you mean. I mean, I have my only
sibling who's, as you mentioned her name, Bertha,
I can completely understand where you're coming
from. So you worked as a journalist and you spent
years, did you spend a good number of years at
the political desk? No, I was actually at, so
you're talking about Straits Times. Yeah. I was
largely at Life. Oh, in Life. Okay. Yeah, yeah.
So you report factual events anyway, right? As
a reporter, obviously you chase after the newsmaker,
you get factual events, right? Yeah. I mean,
broadly speaking. Well, I mean, I guess nowadays
people, what are facts are in dispute quite a
bit. Yeah, okay. Let's not go into that direction.
There's a different story altogether. But let's
talk, let's get back to this. What made you decide
that fiction was a necessary tool to tell these
short stories? Specifically. Rather than sticking
to pure non -fiction. You know. Because the book
is a series of short stories. Yeah. So in this
case, you know, like it's a series of short stories
based on true stories. Yeah. Quite a bit of it
is drawn from the newsroom, the various newsrooms
where I've worked. Okay. Some of it is about
my family history. Some of it is. that people
have told me. And then I put a fictional spin
on it. So, you know, one thing that I've always
hated is when an editor comes to me, right, and
says, can you ask so -and -so if he can say this?
And I'm always like, no, because he or she didn't
say it, right? You know, I can't just make shit
up, you know, for a news story. Do you have some,
a newsmaker craft a narrative? As in, you know,
sometimes they like the... Or lead them into
crafting a narrative instead. I guess you could
say that. Is that what you're saying? I guess
you could say that, you know, in a sense that
like, sometimes the editor might be looking for
a particular quote. Right. He say, can you ask
him if he can say this? Like, can you get him
to say this? Then I'm like, no. Okay. But so,
you know, I can't just make shit up. Yeah. But
when it comes to fiction, I can make shit up.
Okay. Right. So, so as I say, I put a fictional
spin on... a lot of these stories, right? And
then, you know, I mean, as we all know in real
life is things are often unsatisfactory. You
don't have a happy ending. You don't have a satisfactory
ending. But in the world of fiction, that's the
beauty of it, right? I mean, you can come up
with any ending you want. You can fantasize an
ending. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, so in fiction,
it's about world building. Yeah, okay. Whether
you're talking about a contemporary setting,
you're talking about, I have a story based on
a Korean folk tale. So I'm building that world.
Or you're talking about the inner life of a person.
So that is the challenge, right? It's not like
with journalism, like, well, you need to file
your copy by this time, right? And you can't
make excuses. You're like, well, copy editor's
waiting. The sub is waiting. You know, like,
you got to, you know, competition is on the story.
You got to get it going, man. You got to upload
it now. Whereas with fiction, I think the more
time you take to craft it, the better it becomes.
Yeah. You give it more depth to the story because
you take the time to give it depth, isn't it?
Am I right to say that? In fact, I mean, you
know, I started out at a time in journalism in
like 2006. Yeah. So there was a time when, you
know, you could actually take your time to craft
that story and it comes out the next day, right?
Yeah. These days, no such thing. Like internet's
not going to wait for you, man. Yeah. Right.
Well, times have changed. Yeah. Everyone's releasing
stories faster than anything else. Yeah. And
then it leads to, I mean, a lot of errors. Yeah.
Okay. So is that the reason why your book's inspired
by true stories, somewhat true stories and stories
that we wish were true? Because you said just
now, stories that you can tell because it's your
own history in one of your stories, your own
family history. That's certainly true. Am I right?
Okay. Then other people's stories, which we can't
tell whether it's true or not, so somewhat true.
Okay, so I have a story about, it's called The
Other Family, right? So it's about a girl from
her teen years who could see an entire other
family in her flat, you know, the site, right?
Ghostly family. Yes. So this was told to me by
a friend. And she only mentioned it in passing,
right? And then I thought, you know what? This
could be a great short story. And so I actually
went to interview her, right? And she started
telling me very specific incidents that happened,
right? And because my first thought was, well,
she was a kid, you know, flights of fancy, right?
So she was a kid at the time. Yes. And then like,
yeah, so from her kid into her teen years. And
then, yeah, so I thought, well, you know. kids
imagine a lot of things, right? Engineering friends,
this sort of thing. But then she started citing
these very specific incidents, right? And then
you start to think, well, okay, she's not making
this up. This really happened. So, in real life,
she said it kind of just like faded away and
she and her family moved away from that flat.
And then I thought, you know - Her family knew
about this. Her family knew about this. Yes.
Yeah. So, but she was the only one who could
see them. Right. But they took her seriously.
Sorry, man, you got me started. That one, I'm
not too sure. But then in terms of fiction, right?
Yeah. I thought this will make a great story.
Right. So, yeah, in real life, they kind of moved
away from the flat and like that was it. Yeah.
But in my story, I come up with a different ending.
Okay. So, yeah. So, that's why I say like somewhat
true. Yeah. And also like other things like,
so there was a news report about a coffin that
was found floating in the Galang River. Yeah.
Okay. Right. So, and then like in real life,
what happened was that someone had been hired.
It was actually the outer, what do you call it?
The casing, right? Because a body was repatriated.
Right. So, it was used to contain the coffin.
So, this dude was hired to get rid of it. So,
he was like, you know, I'll just dump it in the
river. Okay. So, he kind of like, he kind of
fine and all that. So, but then I thought, what
if there really was a body in a coffin? floating
down the Singapore River. So this was somewhat
based on fact. Somewhat. Okay, I get what you
mean now. Yeah, yeah. All right, let's fucking
have fun. So things like that. Okay. So there
was an actual incident at the heart of it. So
when you get all your stories, your source actually
comes from sometimes real news or people who
know people who told you about someone and something
has happened and you chase after it. Yeah. And
then you fictionalize the whole thing. Yeah,
because I mean, in journalism, right, especially
when you do court stories, you range from, the
stories range from the horrendous to the just,
what, how did this happen? Right. I mean, like,
like you hear all these kinds of things and then
sometimes there's no resolution. You think, well,
so -and -so was fine. So -and -so was arrested.
But what happened to them in the end? Exactly.
So, so I, I, you know, I think I drew a lot of
inspiration from like headlines or like incidents.
And then I, I thought, okay, how can I make a
story out of this? Right. Yeah. When these days,
I think it's worse, you know, in my opinion,
strangely, I was, I just came from Bertha's,
my mom's home. And we celebrated her little birthday
party for her. And we were just talking over
the lunch table about, I was saying, how is it
these days? It does seem to me that journalists
or reporters no longer chase after newsmakers.
And, you know, I give you, okay, sometimes I
understand if it's a crime, and the person's
been charged for that crime, and it's subjudice,
and it's already in court, so you can't really
talk about it. But at the heat of the moment,
when something has already occurred, that would
be the opportune time to chase after newsmakers.
To chase after witnesses, to chase after everything.
Because whatever we read today seems to stop
short of something. Like this guy allegedly killed
that guy and it happened in a prominent place
and there were screams heard coming from a woman.
Yeah, I'm not going to really go into details,
the finite details, otherwise I will be committing
some duties. And then the cops came, the guy
got arrested. Eventually, you know, he wasn't
charged yet. Of course, it just happened, right?
And I don't know whether any reporter ran down.
What they could have done was chased after. Who
was the woman who screamed? Where were the witnesses?
How is this person related to the other guy?
How was the assailant? related to the other guy.
And there was nothing like that. So you don't
draw any kind of conclusions. It really becomes
like somewhat true, true, don't know. Because
we don't have enough facts to draw to any kind
of conclusion. Well, I can't really speak to
why that is now. I think a lot of it depends
on your editors and your supervisors. But what
I will say is that something that I try to get
across to the younger ones that I supervise now
that you really need a thick skin, right? I mean,
just the other day, there was a, I won't go into
detail, there was an incident where I think one
of the younger ones got a bit scared. And then
I said, and then I told them, you know, your
role as a reporter is to find information and
there will always be people who try to stop you
from getting the information for whatever reason.
So I said, you know, don't be intimidated. stand
your ground, you know, stay calm and grow a thick
skin. Yeah. Right? So, I mean, the incident,
the situation you mentioned just now, it really
does take a thick skin to go into, you know,
a crime scene and then, you know, just kind of
really get in people's faces and ask them those
questions. I was not a crime reporter, but I
knew some really good ones and they were really
like, I mean, the skin is so thick. I met some
really good ones too from the days that my sister
was still working there. And I've seen one or
two in action, crime reporters, you know. I'm
just picking crime just as one example. It doesn't
have to necessarily mean that it's limited to
just crime stories. Just since we're talking
about that coffin floating down the river and
you brought it up, you know, crime reporting,
right? So since we're on that particular specific
topic, I might as well just whack on that one
instead. I've seen people go. crime reporters
go to wakes of the victim. Yeah, I've done that.
And they move around table to table, you know,
sitting down, blending into the crowd, you know,
building a little rapport, getting information
out. And I think that's brilliant. Is that happening
today? I don't know. I've done that a few times.
That's you. But again, it should qualify. I'm
not a crime reporter. I haven't done it very
often. So it is a very intimidating kind of venue.
So some people will tell you to get lost. Some
people might be begrudging and tolerate your
presence. Others actually kind of welcome you.
So I mean, well, this is years ago at ST. there
was a food poisoning incident at the Geylang
Sarai temporary market. It just blew up and blew
up and blew up. Like a hundred people got food
poisoning. Then it was suddenly, oh, one person
has died. Then suddenly two people have died.
Wow, it blew up, right? So I was one of the reporters
on it. And then I did go to a wake. And I was
quite nervous my first time there. And the family
actually welcomed us. They said, thank you for
covering this story. We want to know how our
sister died. We hope that you will chase this
story. So they actually shared the death cert
and everything. So I was kind of surprised. But
I've also been in other situations where the
families are like, nope, go away. Don't want
to talk to you. And it's perfectly fine. So yeah,
it really does take a thick skin. But you have
to be very respectful and considerate. These
are people who have lost a family member. They're
really not obliged to talk to you. So the amount
of empathy has got to be exercised. I don't think
you can be a good reporter without empathy. And
I don't think you can be a good storyteller without
empathy. So when you tell your story, see, being
in the position you've been, it's a very nice
cushy position. Pardon me using the word cushy
loosely. Why cushy? But it's a cushy position
because the nature of reportage, right, allows
you to also collate all kinds of real, non -fiction,
factual stuff that happened. And with an imagination,
you can always craft a nice fiction story. Oh,
you mean cushy in terms of... Getting information,
getting sources. Oh, okay. There is a skeleton
to every story you write. Yeah. So I think it's
a great space to be. Let's talk about the title
story, Seven Sacks of Rice. It's a real event
in your family history. How do you determine
this specific personal ancestral story? That
should be the foundation of your entire collection
of short stories in this book. Because, you know,
so let me just tell it very briefly. My grandmother,
back in the 1950s, when she was in China, at
the time, she only had daughters. So, I mean,
as you know, in... East Asian cultures. Yeah.
Sons are very important. Yeah. So, she bought
a boy, a four -year -old boy from another family
for seven sacks of rice. And, you know. This
is true. Yes. This one is true. Yeah. So, like.
For seven sacks of rice? In China? Yeah. In China.
In Shantou. Okay. So, the thing is that, you
know. You've heard a lot of these stories, right?
Even back in the 60s and 70s, there are families
that gave children away because they couldn't
afford to feed them. No, no, no, no. That's not
just the only reason if you don't know. Do you
know any other reason besides that? Besides poverty?
I can tell you. Yeah? Okay. Because they want
boys? Well, no. This is even worse. This is based
on... numerology or Feng Shui, and that this
child is not good for you, in your house, bad
things will happen, you need to give away the
kid to your sister, your brother, and let them
raise this kid as their own. The kid normally,
usually grows up knowing that the parents that
raised him or her are not his natural, not the
natural parents. And they actually know their
uncle and auntie, so and so, are his or her natural
parents. Okay. You know, and they do that because
they, and it's prevalent also, especially amongst
the Peranakan community. Right. Okay. Yeah. So
they give away children based on that. Wow. Yeah.
Okay. Not just based on poverty, man. I know
of this personally as well. So, I mean, the tragedy
of it is that you would think, It's your fault.
No, I mean, the tragedy of it, this thing about
children being sold or children being given away.
Yeah. You would think, you know, it's the 21st
century. It doesn't happen. Not true. It happens
quite a bit in South Asia, in Central Asia. Really?
Yeah, it still does. For all kinds of reasons.
But I don't hear this story here in Singapore
as much. Kai, we were just talking about something
like this, weren't we? I can't recall. No, just
now when we were coming back. Upstairs? Yeah.
Regarding what? Parents who gave away their children.
I'm not going to go into specifics. All right.
Yeah. And yeah, we were just talking about something
like that. And you know, is it as prevalent today
in Singapore? Do you think? Do you know? I don't
know if you can actually do that nowadays. But
I mean, you're asking me why I put this story
at... at the heart of the collection is that,
you know, this has been part of the family folklore
for, I mean, ever since I was born because we
always knew we had an uncle who was adopted but
he, he rejected the family from a very young
age because he knew that he was adopted and then,
I would just hear stories from my aunties or
my mother about, hey, we saw so and so today
and he's working these odd jobs and then like,
the next time you go there, he's gone, right?
Because he doesn't want to have anything to do
with the family. So, So I'd always known about
this incident. And then one day, my mother told
me something, right? And I wouldn't say what
it is because it kind of gives away a key part
of the story. Sure. So she said that she's actually,
she told me that she actually played a big part
in this particular story. She was the same age
as this uncle at the time, four years old. And
then I had a shock. I said, you never told me
this. So I started asking her for more and more
details. And I talked to my auntie as well. My
grandparents are long gone. Two of my aunties
have also passed on. So there's not a lot of
people to check with to verify the facts. But,
you know, again, this is why I say I put a fictional
spin on it. And, you know, when I was talking
to my mother, she said it a lot. Your grandmother
had a very hard life. And, you know, I used to
go to my grandmother's place when I was very
young all the time. I'd meet with my cousins.
I'd meet my uncles and aunties. I have very fond
memories of my grandmother. And, but I didn't
really know her well. You know, like I, I'm Teochew
on my mother's side. My Teochew is like half
past six. So we never really had like in -depth
conversations. But when my mother started telling
me all these details about my grandmother, then
I really started to get a feel, a real sense
of what she was like as a person. And in that
time period, right? Those kind of pressures that,
you know. well, you're the wife, you got to produce
a baby son, right? Baby boy. If you're not, well,
there's something wrong with you. You know, you've
let down the family. And I mean, even though
biologically, we know it's actually the man's
fault if you can't get a boy. Yeah. So, yeah.
So in writing this story, it's something very
personal to me. And then it's why I started to
get this idea. Why don't I do a collection of
true stories, right? Short stories based on true
stories. Okay. A story like that, seven sacks
of rice by a boy because you know you have to
give us a boy you need to produce a boy and the
pressure social pressure you receive at that
time you know to produce a boy and then therefore
you adopt one this is a baggage right yeah very
much so now do you think that kind of baggage
still exists amongst families and people in singapore
today For example, you don't have to go that
far. Maybe not in terms of I must get a boy or
whatever. I think it's worse when you have young
people get married and don't have children and
get pressure all the time during Chinese New
Year. So when are you going to get a baby? When
are you going to have a baby? When are you going
to have a baby? Or even women who have had multiple
miscarriages try so hard to get babies and they
are also under a lot of pressure. So I think
it's still relatable today, isn't it? This story
may be an old story, but... I think it really
depends on the kind of family that you're from
and the kind of family that your partner is from.
So like, I think everybody has their own baggage
that they bring into a relationship, right? And
then, well, not just a relationship, but I think
I'm old enough by now to realize that sometimes
when I see people at work behaving in a certain
way, and, you know, most people would just be
like, why is he like that? But then you think
deeply about it, there must be something deeper.
And very often that kind of baggage comes from
your childhood, your family experiences, and
you bring all of that into that family situation.
And there's all these unspoken expectations and
then all these thoughts of, well, why isn't he
doing this? Why isn't she doing this? But when
you think about it, well, this doesn't make much
sense. Why should he or she be expected to do
that? And then in terms of having children, you
know, like, so the government's constantly telling
us to have children, right? And then like giving
all these baby bonuses. But then I wonder how
much thought it goes into. Well, what about the
ecosystem around parents, right? You know, childcare,
parental leave, the cost of education. These
are all the things that deter people, right?
I mean, it's not enough that, yeah, here's like
10 ,000 going to have a kid. pressure of education
10 ,000 gone in like 2 years bro or maybe less
than that so yeah but I can tell you based on
I'm not saying it's prevalent just because of
what I'm about to say but based on my own personal
experiences over the years I'm 55 years old nothing
to hide I can assure you including myself my
own family nucleus my family didn't really give
us that much pressure but we lost 3 kids along
the way and in the end we almost gave up until
I had my son who's 16 today. And over the time,
I tell you, sometimes there are other women outside
of even family who would mock at other women
for either being a single mom or not being able
to have a kid. And I can tell you, it exists.
It exists. So yeah, I mean, the reason why I
brought that up is because I think No matter
what, whether we can look at it as being an archaic,
old, antique story, you know, that happened in
China many, many years ago, but it takes on different
shapes and forms in modern day society, it could.
And I think, in my opinion, it has. Well, it
makes great fodder for fiction. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it does, it does. Which brings me to this point.
You wrote a collection of short stories instead
of a novel. You can actually weave all that into
one fantastic freaking story, one bloody freaking
novel, right? Why short story? Novel very hard
lah. Huh? Why? Okay, wait. Wait, wait, wait.
I'm a noob, okay? Explain to me. I'm not. I said
this before just last week to two other writers
in this studio. I'm going to say it again today.
Not every Hanson's a birther, okay? And I'm saying
it again still. Can you believe it? My only claim
to fame is that little piece I contributed to
Felix Cheung's book. That's about the size of
it. So I want to understand from writers, not
just Bertha, everyone I know or I can meet like
you along the way. Explain to me, do you think
if you would weave it into a novel, it'll probably
maybe, maybe, maybe be more exciting reading?
A sicker book put out there on the shelves can
fly off easily? I don't know. You school me.
Whether a book sells well very often depends
on the kind of marketing and the narrative around
it, I think. Also, the kind of personality of
the author and all that. So, I did, my first
book was a novella. It was about zombies in Singapore.
Oh, you, another one. So, I have to admit, I
have to admit, it wasn't great. Okay. And writing
it was, I think, really painful man because you
have to keep a narrative consistent over something
like 50 ,000 words right right and then I mean
I took some advice from from other from people
who actually done like TV series right and then
you know they call it they call it the Bible
right so in the sense of like let's say your
character ABC yeah and then there's a whole bible
about what character a is like this and this
and this and this character b is like this and
this so like you so you know to be consistent
right like if a character is an angry person
he should be consistently angry right right this
sort of thing so so i only had three main characters
and already i found it like so difficult to um
keep their consistent character characteristics
yeah yeah and then like i would have to reread
and reread and reread and then like you know
and there's a lot of editing and then like So,
I mean, at least from my point of view, when
I do a short story, I find it more satisfying
because it's, as the term suggests, it's a short
story, right? I mean, even something like as
interesting as a coffin floating down the river.
It's like, you want to keep the story interesting
over 50 ,000 words? It's like, well, you got
to put a lot more work, man. Now, not to say
that writing short stories is easy, right? But,
i kind of i feel like i'm more as a writer and
built uh better at writing short stories so you
you acknowledge and realize that this is your
more your forte then yeah i mean but you know
like like there were i i've had seen uh quite
a number of you have told me or i've seen some
comments on goodreads and whatever they're like
why do the stories end so abruptly you know like
i want more of a satisfying payoff but um I mean,
to me, it's kind of like short and sharp, right?
I come up with this narrative and then it has
to have a definite ending there. So, yeah, I
mean, I really enjoy the short story form. Will
I ever try and write a novel, right? Depends,
you know. I have to think very deeply about it.
Okay, okay, okay. Let's talk about some of your
stories. We've already talked about Seven Sacks
of Rice, which is your family story. You brought
up about the coffin floating down the river.
You talked about the girl that, you know, seeing
the other family, the ghostly family in the ATB
flat. The Queen of Heaven. Can you discuss what
specific real -life incident was there when this
is concerned? Is it a real -life incident, cultural
figure, or traditional reference? I kind of made
up that story. And then, I mean, the... In terms
of the truthful aspect of it, it's very tenuous.
It's just that I took a trip to Taichung and
then I saw, I really like the temples that I
saw. And, you know, Taichung, Taiwan. Yeah, Taichung
in Taiwan. Yeah. So then like, it's a very old
trope, right? A man falling in love with a ghost.
Right. So you remember that. that classic movie,
Hong Kong movie, A Chinese Ghost Story. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. So, I was thinking of things like that.
Okay. Yeah, and I was thinking of... That's not
the PG, that's not the RA one right now. Well,
I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of sexy
time in it, but, you know, it's not exactly RA,
but... Okay, it's like Patrick Swayze in Demi
Moore's Ghost. I would say it's sexier than that,
but anyway. Okay. It's Sui Hak, right? So, who
is like... In Suihak, okay. One of those groundbreaking
Hong Kong directors. Yeah, yeah, Suihak. So,
yeah, I was thinking of things like that. I was
thinking of, you know, all the ghost stories
you hear as a kid from Chinese culture, right?
And then I was bringing all of those things to
bear when I wrote this story. Parts of it are
true. I mean, this actual temple where, so there
was like, a rebellion in Taiwan. Or rather, there
was an attempted rebellion against the Ming Dynasty
and this dude like fled to Taiwan. He was about
to, he was going to be overtaken, right? And
then, he and his five concubines killed themselves.
So, I had this idea that one of the concubines
is the youngest, right? And then, she never wanted
to die. She was still waiting to have a whole
life and then, years, hundreds of years later,
she's still at that, at that temple. And then,
a guy encounters her. Okay. Yeah. So she never
left that spot. That was my idea. She haunts
that place. Yeah. I mean, you hear these stories
all the time, right? So like, I mean, even here,
you know, like, oh. The old Changi Hospital.
Yeah. Tegong Camp. Is it Camp 1 or Camp 2? So
like, you know, that particular door and that
kind of thing. Oh, Chinese company, the three
doors. Yes, yes. So like... You should hear my
story about that. Oh, really? Okay. I mean, I
love urban legends, right? And there's always
some kind of truth to it. So in this case, it
was like, I visited this temple and then years
later, it was actually in... it was actually
first included in Felix Chong's collection of
love stories because he asked me like, do you
have anything to contribute? Right, right, right.
So I thought about that and I wrote that. Right.
Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I love folktales. I love
urban legends. Okay. Yeah. I love urban legends,
not so much folktales. Urban legends, I enjoy
quite a lot. The story titled Mr. Kim. Ah, yes.
You know what? That is based. on an anecdote.
Uh -huh. So, because, uh, it was during COVID.
Yeah. Right. And then, uh, I'm going to get a
tattoo as you do. Right. And then this, as we
do. Yeah. So it was in, it's actually in someone's,
uh, flat. Right. And then, uh, it was kind of
like a studio, like different artists will come
in. Okay. Right. So I was going to, I was going
to tattoo on my pet dog. And then like, So the
artist was working on me and then there's another
artist. And then started going on about, hey,
you know, so -and -so, you know, remember he
tattooed this Korean guy? Oh, yeah, yeah. Then
he's blah, blah, blah. It turns out it was so
-and -so. Then I was like, wait, what, what,
what? Tell me this again. It was a famous name.
Yes, a very famous name. Then I was like, what?
And then I went to do some research. I said,
yeah, this dude has come to Singapore. And then
this particular fellow, he goes far and wide.
And then he has a particular reputation. He hangs
out with a certain crowd. So I started asking
for details. I actually first thought of it as
a news story. But then I thought, this is impossible
to verify. So I managed to get some details from
this fellow. The artist is actually his friend.
I think he kind of basically stopped talking
to me. Like he, cause I said, I did say I was
interested in interviewing him. I think I didn't
want, I guess he didn't want to be interviewed.
I mean, I wouldn't say the names of these artists.
So I thought, you know what? I'm going to do
a fiction story. Right. So then I actually talked
to other tattoo artists who like were telling
me like, you know, a tattoo artist is almost
like a, it's almost like a priest or like a bartender.
People come in and have these confessionals.
Right. And then like, you know, like I was talking
to a guy, he's the husband of a friend of a friend.
So, he was saying, he get things like, you know,
people come in and start talking, oh, you know,
yeah, you know, my father used to chain me to
the toilet while he's doing the tattoo and then
it's like, wait, what? So, you know, these very
personal stories come out, right? And then, so,
in terms of this very particular famous Mr. Kim,
right, I thought, you know what, I'm going to
story out of that. Okay. This is how the origin
of the story actually came from something you've
heard about. And it was, I mean, it was like
secondhand, but I mean, it sounded credible to
me. Okay. There were these particular details
you give like, you know, Mr. Kim, like bags of
cash, stacks of cash. And he comes and walks
around with an entourage. Yeah, and he's like,
how much is it today? Then he just peels out
this cash. It's like, what? What's the moral
of the story for this? What's the baggage to
it, man? Baggage? I mean, well, I mean, the baggage
would be the... people will come in and like,
why do they get tattoos? Right? Like, I mean,
then like somebody was telling me that this is
in the story. So this artist told me that somebody
came in and like, I want to, I want to tattoo
my wife's IC number on my chest. Then I was like,
no. So I asked the artist, do you, do you, you
know, when people come in and they come in late
at night and then they're often drunk or what,
right? So like, I said, do you try to dissuade
them? He said, That's not my job, man. Really?
Yeah. Oh, actually, I don't know. I'm not going
to mention the name of the studio, but it's a
very, very, very, very famous one. When the ships
come into town, they definitely go there. I think
I know that one. The one in Faiz Plaza. I know
that one, yeah. And the famous guy that's there,
right, comes up with, he has this rule. If you
want a portrait of a family member, inked on
you and a family member is still around, he won't
do it. Oh, really? Yeah. He has a rule. As a
matter of fact, that rule goes across this entire
studio. None of his artists are allowed. What's
the reason? Because pantang. Ah, okay. If they're
still around and you have it, you're having them
memorialized on your skin and the people are
still here. And he just doesn't want it. He doesn't
allow that to happen. I know a lot of studios
actually just go ahead and get it done. I know
of fans and all that. No disrespect or judging
what they've done. They've had it done elsewhere.
But this particular one, they won't do. It's
not a fact personally. I'm an inked guy. But
personally, I wouldn't do it either. Well, I
mean, my dog is still very much alive and well.
It was kind of like their sense of life. I know
that my time with her, our time with her is limited.
Yeah. But I want her to be with me forever. Yeah.
And, you know, one day she will go and it will
be very, very painful. So, but even while she's
around, I want her to be with me always. Yeah.
I understand that completely. Believe me. Yeah.
I've lost the last one I've had. Right. And it
wasn't just heartbreaking, it was shattering.
Yeah. Yeah. It was terrible. Really. Yeah, I
understand. I know where you're coming from.
But there's a dog. Well, then the question would
be, do dogs have souls, right? I would think,
well, I mean, I'm going to have some people who
actually, you know, probably give me the finger
with what I'm about to say. I should think, why
not? I think, even though I'm Catholic, I would
say that everything that is of God's creation
is loved by God. You know, so, and I do think
so because I've had my encounters. Wow. Yeah,
yeah, with my last one. believe it or not and
I know for a fact that he is around when we need
him around even when we don't know we need him
he's around so it's yeah so it's kind of interesting
chicken task force you know what that is do you
know that is a real thing that's an actual thing
okay because okay So a bit of background here.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was at Yahoo News when
COVID started. Okay. And then I covered COVID
for a good like two years. And then like, so
I went to, I must have gone to like maybe 75,
80 % of all the COVID task force press conferences.
The inter -ministerial task force, yeah? Yeah.
So the... multi -ministry task force, right?
So then, fronted by Lawrence Wong and Ong Yi
Kang. Yeah. And the thing was that, you know,
so Bertha can also tell you this, right? For
ministers to have regular press conferences with
both local and foreign media is extremely rare.
other than COVID, I'm trying to recall when was
the last time they did this sort of thing on
a regular basis. I don't know. Maybe Bertha might
know. So the thing was that, Yeah, so I covered
it so many times, right? And then, of course,
it left a very deep impression on me. Now, the
chicken task force is an actual thing because
there were, it was somewhere in Bishan, right?
And there were this surfeit of chickens who were
like making a lot of noise and causing like,
as they call it, disamenities, whatever that
means. So, and then like, so. the government,
then you can find the Straits Times story in
it. So they actually formed a chicken task force.
Oh gosh. And then like, you know, there's details
about, well, we've put nets, we've got people
to collect these chicken eggs so they don't reproduce.
And then like, it was like, and then the story
was just reported very straightforward, very
straight. And I'm like, why are there no puns
about chickens in this story? Why is no foul
play? You know, like, don't count your eggs before
they hatch, that kind of thing. I wrote Chicken
Task Force kind of like as a parody of the COVID
task force because I think, you know, we do have
a very efficient civil service, right? Bureaucratic
as hell. You know, I've seen worse in other countries,
man. But, so like, But the civil service is kind
of ripe for satire, right? Because all these
bureaucratic processes, and then they invent
their own words like inputs. Yeah. You know,
so I wrote it as a spoof of the COVID task force.
And then there are some incidents in there, right,
where kind of like... reporter kind of confronts
the newsmaker. Those things actually happen.
But not in COVID. I saw them for myself. So I
included that in the story. But you know, funny
you should mention that because I have been on
this tirade about this chicken thing on my socials.
Make a lot of noises. No, I am against people
who want to have them removed. Okay. Because
it's ridiculous. We got people complaining about
just practically about everything. And I really
don't think we need to have a fucking task force
for everything. We look at chicken. I got this
white, lovely chicken. Is it a, is it a Polish
chicken? I don't know what freaking chicken is.
There's such a thing. There was a dude, right?
Who they, I mean, he interviewed him and he was
breeding like Polish chickens in his flat. Right.
I can't remember whether he was selling them
because there was a period when there was a,
It became fashionable to have a Polish chicken
as a pet. If you Google them, they do look quite
unusual. You mean they look furry? They have
this sort of weird comb on top. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
If you Google it, you see the picture. Yeah,
I think I know what you're talking about. I've
got several chicken things, man, that has happened
that I just cannot stomach. There's a guy. Okay,
first of all, the white lovely hen that's around
Bedok North Avenue 2. Yeah. I see it all the
time in a nearby coffee shop. It's been there
since it was a chick. The people around it, the
regulars that I go PTM, seen it grow. They also,
you know, sometimes give it some food to eat
and all that. And it grew. And then, and it's
always around, you know. Then one day, after
months and months, I bring my mom there for acupuncture.
So I see this chicken. So we've been going there
for about coming two years already. I bring my
mom once a week to just go there. And we have
coffee that I always, you know. I go have a cigarette
somewhere and the chicken's always around me.
It's kind of cool. I have a couple of chats with
that chicken. Then one fine day, it disappeared.
Then I came back the following week, still wasn't
around. Then I met some of the regulars at a
coffee shop and I asked, what happened to that
chicken? Oh, NEA came to take it away. And I
went, what? Why? Complaints. What? Why? Cucking
too much. It doesn't crow, it's a freaking hen.
Clocking. And I'm like, are you freaking kidding
me? They're never mind. Where I live, we have
this lovely garden and they grow all kinds of
stuff. And they used to have a coop. And in that
coop, there are about three, four very unusual
types of chicken. And they are so cute, you know.
But yeah, of course they crow. neighborhood people
living around they complain about the crowing
I like to tell people that you know there's always
a lot written about oh Singapore's not very democratic
you know and they don't you know there's not
enough civil liberties and all that but in some
ways we are incredibly democratic because like
one complaint right is enough to set an agency
in motion yeah like like what oh okay that was
fast Well, I'll give you some more fodder, man.
Here's one more about chicken. Last one. Around
this neighborhood, there's this guy. And when
I moved in here not long ago, I noticed him because
when he rides his bicycle, his chicken is on
the handlebar, standing proudly. It's a rooster.
And it's such a sight to see. And he loves that
chicken. One day, it came out in the papers.
It came out. It was reported. His chicken went
missing. Oh. Right? About a couple of days after
he noticed his chicken went missing, somebody
left nicely on some cloth where the chicken used
to be in that cage. Bones. And he was heartbroken
because he's a single man. He's not young. He's
had that, read that chicken since it was a chick.
It became his best friend. And I just think,
The asshole that did this, I better not say anymore,
otherwise I get arrested. But I just think that
it is just ridiculous. And why are people like
this? Pickleball is the latest thing I've been
bitching about this entire season. I mean, come
on, give it a rest. If you live in a private
estate, in a condo with tennis courts, it's a
lot louder than the pickleball. But you sit there,
you stand there and enjoy the games. I used to
have that. I used to stand on my balcony in my
condo. I had four tennis courts in front of me
and I just enjoyed the matches. Live and let
live. I mean, come on. We complain about chickens
crowing. And I've even heard about people complaining
about birds squawking. I got to say this one
thing. So my sister -in -law is from China. Now
she's a citizen now. And I remember like, after
she got, she went through her ceremony. I told
her, you know, now that you're a Singaporean,
you must learn how to complain. Otherwise, you're
not a true Singaporean. Oh, man. This complaint
culture. If you talk about baggage, I mean, we
got one huge freaking one on the entire, on the
backs of practically all of us. And there's a
KPKB baggage. Oh, well. Yeah, man. It's in our
nature. Oh, man. Shucks. Okay. When you're writing
stories, it completely makes facts and fantasy.
Is your aim simply to entertain? Or do you hope
to change the way readers look at specific everyday
places or common events in Singapore? Well, I
think, you know, I mean, first and foremost,
it's about crafting an interesting story. Right.
So, I mean, It's very similar with news, right?
Yeah. It starts at the headline. It's got to
have an arresting headline that grabs people's
attention. Okay. And then, you know, it's got
to be worth your while, right? So, you know,
one thing I always tell the young reporters is
that, is that question, so what, right? When
a reader sees your headline, the question will
be, well, so what? Why should I click on it?
Why should I read it? Why should I read it to
the end? Right? So in the same way, I mean, with
fiction, it's about crafting a compelling narrative
and, you know, building that realistic world,
showing the inner world of the characters. And
I think the fact that, you know, these stories
are based on true events and somewhat true and
true stories and true events. I think it gives
it. it kind of like tantalizes the reader, right?
The possibility that, oh wow, could something
like this really happen? Or did something like
this really happen? So the only 100 % true story
there is the one about my grandmother, right?
So, I mean, even the ending where, where, you
know, the narrator and his mother go to this
place, right? That really did happen, right?
I think, you know, it's that whole, Hollywood
thing, right? Based on a true story. Although
not this, like people understand that based on
a true story isn't really based on a true story.
They took a lot of liberties and all that. Everybody's
just admitted usually at the beginning of each
movie or TV show. Not this, like they even like,
sometimes they even play it up, right? They'll
say things like, well, it's kind of true, you
know? So in my case, it was about, you know,
what were the things that made me what are the
incidents that stay in my mind? What are the
things that make me think, wow, I want to find
out more, man. What happened here? So another
example, the woodcutter. Yeah. That's based on
a Korean folktale. Okay. That's also included
in Epigram's new short story collection. Okay.
But this one was first published in my book by
Marshall Cavendish. A Korean friend told me,
she's half Korean, right? Father is Singaporean.
She said that her grandfather was taken away
by the Japanese during the war. Now, this is
very well documented, like war labor, right?
Forced labor, in fact. He was taken away to Japan
during the war and somehow he found his way back
after the war. A lot of people didn't, right?
They died or they never came back or whatever.
So she was telling me the story about how one
day he was drunk and he suddenly blurted out,
well, when I was in Japan, I married someone
and we had a kid, right? So, and I'm not sure
exactly what happened after that, but it was
like, and a lot of these things happened during
the war, right? People were separated, people
were taken away and then, you know, they had
relationships with whoever. So, I heard that
and then I tried to find out more. She wasn't
very sure herself, right? And then I took that,
I took that little anecdote, right? And initially
I, because she, she used to joke that I can't
date Japanese guys. What if one of them is my
cousin? So, so initially my idea was like, this
character has a cousin in Japan and then you
kind of like sort of somehow sort of a long distance
connection. But then when I was in Seoul some
years back, and then I was asking a Korean friend,
where can I find a collection of Korean folktales?
And I didn't have this story in mind at first,
right? So she pointed me to this particular collection.
And then I read about the Woodcutter, which is
actually a very famous folktale in Korea. And
then I thought, you know what? I'm going to tell
the story of this man through allegory. And then
I will kind of like flip back and forth between
the modern day and this era of the folktale.
But it's an allegory about how he was taken away
by the Japanese. And that ending is made up,
right? But then again, it's about... Like I said
earlier, I love folktales because I think it
tells you so much about a particular culture,
about the kind of concerns that they had, the
things that they value and all that. So I told
the story through that because also bearing in
mind that we hear it all the time, people who
lived during the war, that particular generation,
they find it very hard to talk about what happened,
that great trauma that they went through. So
I thought, you know, Allegory would be the best
way to tell this story. Okay. Yeah. What's next
for Nicholas Yeung? Fiction -wise, I haven't
really thought about it, man. I mean, I do have
some ideas. Are you working on something now,
presently? Not actively, but I do have some ideas.
You know, it's these things that you read about
along the way, little things about like the sometime
in the 50s I think there was actually a department
in the UK let me see if I remember this correctly
they actually kept track of people who made predictions
about the future there was an actual government
department so this dude wrote a book about it
so you talk to these people who have predicted
and say oh wow did it come true and things like
that and then I started wondering like Wow, if
only we had a department like that here. Maybe
we do. Yeah, well, maybe. What kind of characters
would populate this particular department? And
you know, urban legends, like the one about the
dollar coin, right? Yeah, yeah, okay. So things
like that. And especially like, I mean, Chinese
people are so superstitious, right? So it really
wouldn't surprise me that much if there actually
was some kind of consideration of like feng shui,
you know, in like, in building things or making
certain decisions. I mean, even something like
SunTech. Yeah. I mean, it's the power of the
Buddha, right? Yeah. So, yeah, those kind of
things like stay with me. But there is a book,
you know, locally written and published years
ago. About? About Feng Shui and the infrastructure
in Singapore. Oh, okay. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So I have... Like why our electrical power
lines are underground instead of overhead? Oh,
really? Yeah. Okay. I'm going to go check that
out. Go, go check it out, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kind of interesting. And I think there's, if
I can say corrected, I think there's one about
why the Esplanade looks like durians. Maybe there's
some spirit involved. I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know. I read that book. That was ages
ago. but somebody came up with that already so
but it'd be interesting for you you know you
could be an interesting source as well for whatever
you plan to do you know it sounds interesting
go check it out man yeah yeah but uh where can
people go uh purchase your book seven sacks of
rice and other baggages where can they go uh
it's available on the Epigram website. Epigram
website, people. Amazon. Amazon, guys. I think
Kino should still have it. And Kinokuniya. Yeah.
Okay. On the shelves, Kinokuniya. Online or on
the shelves? Both. I can't remember. I haven't
checked it in a while. Safest, go online. Okay.
All right. So go get yourself a copy, guys. It's
a good read, okay? Kind of fun. So you heard
us talk about it. Nicholas very artfully ensured
that he didn't really spill all, everything out
in my episode of Ink Spill so that you can actually
buy the book and still yet be surprised by what
you find, okay? So go get yourselves a copy.
Thanks for being with me, man. Thank you, man.
Appreciate it, mate, really. And I wish you the
best. Okay, everybody, this is the last, final
episode for the Ink Spill series. When we come
back next Friday. It will be the long -awaited
and the only episode for this season of UFO Reveal
Asia. Boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, have we got
lots of crazy shit to tell you. Just give you
a hint, yeah? The Americans, well, most of the
very important government officers have come
out to say, they're here, they're real, we are
not alone. So catch me and Ignatius Bong next
week for Euphorus. Until then, stay safe, everybody.
Same time, same place, same channel, 8 p .m.
Friday. Bye -bye.