WEBVTT

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Welcome back to Hobbies and Lobbies, the series

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where we explore the passion projects that continue

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to define the most fascinating people. Our guest

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today has a story that proves professional purpose

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is always evolving and that talent, once honed,

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can pivot to anything. For many years, her voice

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was the soundtrack to late night's comfort and

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connection for an entire generation. She is a

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true Singapore radio legend. the one and only

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love goddess, Suzanne Walker, the veteran DJ

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who achieved unprecedented success with Love

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Songs on Class 95 FM. But Suzanne's story is

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defined by a massive, deliberate pivot. She left

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the world of mass entertainment to move into

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the intense realm of public service, becoming

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the Deputy Director of Strategic Communications

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at the National Youth Council. Now, she has stepped

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away from that demanding executive career to

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focus in incredible communication skills on a

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project that is purely her own. This is where

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the hobby, and perhaps even lobby, comes in.

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Her intellectual and deeply personal podcast,

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Women Talking, is a platform dedicated to intelligent,

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nuanced conversation, from dissecting complex

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literature to openly discussing serious mental

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health concerns. It's an arena where she controls

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the conversation entirely. We're going to discuss

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the amazing leap from being a radio star to becoming

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a civil servant and now to acting as an independent

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media curator. We'll discover how the machinations

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of a show, Women Talking, provide her with purpose

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and joy in this exciting new chapter. Please

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join me in welcoming the incomparable Suzanne

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Walker to the Chris Hansen Conversation. Can

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I just ask you to just replicate that one more

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time? Just for everyone to just, you know, just

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reminisce a little bit. You're listening to the

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greatest of all human emotions, love songs on

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Class 95. Oh my goodness me. Let me take the

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cans off a bit. All right. My ears were sweating

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on the inside. Before we begin the show, here

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is an important announcement. For 100 years,

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Shura set the standard for professional audio.

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Shop the Shure Shop Singapore now. Visit the

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to get limited Shure merchandise with your purchases.

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Now, let's start the show. I'm ready. Okay, good.

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As a matter of fact, we've been rolling, so don't

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worry. Okay. Right, Kai? Yep. Always be a rolling.

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Who did we learn that from? Bloody hell, Joe

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Augustine. Okay. Have you had Joe on yet? Oh,

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yeah. Oh, my goodness. What a conversation that

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one was. I mean, he's called his show The Shit

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Show, right? I was like, I'll never come on.

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The Shit Show. Yeah, Joe, Joe, Joe. There can

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only be one. One Joe Augustine. But I haven't

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been in contact with him, but I know many people

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actually showed up at the Power 98 final day

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of broadcasting, I think end of October. There

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was some farewell. I wasn't there. They closed

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it down, right? They went online. I felt very

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sad actually, but everyone seemed to be celebrating.

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So I just thought, okay, maybe I'm not in the

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right mood anyways. I've got the vibe wrong.

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But why are they celebrating? I mean, it's the

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end of an era for Power 98. And I wonder why,

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because I mean, doesn't MINDEF, SAF need to still

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have their radio station? I think they actually

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wanted an FM bandwidth because in times of crisis,

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they feel that radio would be the best communications.

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Exactly. But in this day and age, is it really

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radio? And by the way, I've worked in some...

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peacekeeping missions and radio stations can

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be set up very quickly within like a day or two.

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Maybe times have changed. Maybe things are a

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lot easier to set up an FN band with nowadays,

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just like that. Yeah. And then, I mean, to keep

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that radio station going, I don't know about

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the cost, but I mean, also in this day and age,

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maybe digital communications is going to be the

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future for us. Then again, I mean, in times of

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war, we don't know what's going to happen to

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digital, man. Whether or not it's going to be

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easily blown up to bits, you know. I mean, you've

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got to have a place to stream your stuff. You've

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got to have servers. You've got to have all that.

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But you just need a mobile network these days

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and then you can actually communicate. So I think

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setting up a mobile network is about the same

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as setting up a transmitter. Well, I don't know.

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I mean, strategically, I don't know whether or

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not that's a good idea. Okay, yeah, but Mindev

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should be saying something, right? But then again,

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SPH, they're quite rubbish too because they don't

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report the stuff they're supposed to report.

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I'll leave that to your sister. Every morning,

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right? I noticed that she used to come on every

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morning on her Facebook page. Her birthday blows

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up. Yeah, but now she comes in in the afternoon

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as well. I've noticed that. Because she's taking

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care of her mom. So sometimes she's really taken

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up too. But she's funny. And you know, she's

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been on my podcast as well. Wait, has the show

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started? Of course. No, I mean, we've just been

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rolling. Don't worry about it. We just did the

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juicy bits and put it on. Hi, everybody. And

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welcome back to the Chris Hansen conversation.

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I'm so excited. because I've always wanted to

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meet her. I had an opportunity to have met her

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once before, years ago, but it just didn't happen.

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We were on the same TV show, but I've never got

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a chance to meet her. But today she's here in

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my studio and she's a legend on radio because

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I tell you why she's my legend. Let me tell you

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why. Because when I drive back home at night,

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years and years back, and I drive back home and

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I hear that voice on air late at night and I

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go, oh my God, who is this girl? Hi, this is

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Love Songs. And I'm the love goddess. Oh, my

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goodness. Me, Suzanne Walker, everybody. Welcome

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to the studio. Thank you so much, Chris. That

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was about 30 years ago. You really dated me.

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30 years ago. No, no, no. I was dating you. I

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was dating you every time I'm in the car at night

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and I turn on to your station when you're on.

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It's just that I didn't know about it, right?

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I was dating so many NS boys as well, but I didn't

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really know about it. Actually, there's some

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truth there, you know. A lot of the guys back

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then don't tell me, hey, this girl, Suzanne Walker

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on the air. My goodness, the way she goes on

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air, the way her voice goes. But, you know, back

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in the day, I don't think they had any other

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radio stations that were broadcasting at that

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time. So a lot of the NS boys would actually

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listen to the radio and they would actually line

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up. Previously, I think a payphone. So they will

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line up like in the camp that they were at and

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they will wait their turn to make a call to me

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and hope that I'll pick up and then dedicate

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a song to their girlfriend and tell me exactly

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what time I should actually play that dedicated

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song because their girlfriend will be back home

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or on the bus or maybe she'll be settled back

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in her bedroom and listening to the radio. So

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yeah, I do know there were many NS boys who were

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listening to me. But you know something, man?

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That... persona you put on yeah that voice you

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put on air right as the love goddess right i

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mean i mean how did you do that okay can i just

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ask you to just replicate that one more time

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just for everyone to just you know just reminisce

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a little bit you're listening to the greatest

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of all human emotions love songs on class 95

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oh my goodness me let me take the cans off a

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bit all right my ears were sweating on the inside

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Actually, I got a lot of guidance. I think there

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were some American consultants that came in to

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SBC then and they wanted to actually do a 24

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-hour format radio. The guys from Coast to Coast.

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I think so. I think one of the guys' name was

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Todd. I can't remember. And he was telling me

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like late night programming, people want to hear

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you be intimate with them. They want something

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close and warm and think about it. Like think

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of what you would like to hear if you were alone,

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you know. And so they put me in that kind of

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headspace and that kind of helped me gear myself

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towards the kind of persona that you heard. But

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I'm very grateful that it was. such a success,

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but it was difficult for me career wise because

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it was very hard to get out of that program.

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Oh, wow. Yeah. A lot of people still want that.

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They still want that, but it was actually a very

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intentional type of presentation that I created.

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But you know why? I think people still want that

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because not many people can do that. Well, I

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think many other girls have tried the close mic

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technique. Oh, no, no, no. They all fail. They

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all fail. They all fail. Because speaking for

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myself and the people I know, I can tell you

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no one remembers any of them. Well, yeah, you

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know, that's the funny thing, right? We remember

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you. Yeah, I just don't understand why. But I

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think maybe it was just the first time people

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were listening to something like that. You must

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have heard your own playback, right? I have.

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I mean, that's why. Even when at Christmas parties,

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I still have people say, can you do that line,

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the love songs line? Can you just do that for

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me, please? And I just do it and everyone just

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have a good laugh. I just did it like two Christmases

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ago. You were quite the inspiration, you know,

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a bit for me. Because I think I told FD this

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years back. And FD actually was doing the late

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night show at Perfect 10. And sometimes we would

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chat. So yeah, I remember FD in those late night

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programs. I told FD. Was it Perfect 10? Was he

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FD in Perfect 10? He was. I think he would do

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a show or something like that. Then he'll come

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on and do some late night programming. He came

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in straight away to Class 95 in the morning with

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Joe. His first foray into radio, not radio fusion,

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radio. He was also doing Perfect 10, I think,

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late night. Yes, late night. Sometimes maybe

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he covers for someone. Probably as a part -timer.

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Yeah, as a cover. He wasn't a full -time presenter

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then. Because I told him years ago, I remember

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telling him, saying something like this to him,

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because, you know, I really want to have that

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slot that Suzanne has, you know, because I think

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I can do the male version. Yeah, yeah. You're

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listening to love songs. All you have to do is

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keep me, keep me as your company tonight. Bring

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up. the subs yeah i mean like bring up the volume

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bring up the low frequency and then they did

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try with another male presenter after i left

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but it was a different vibe is it yeah He who

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pronounces his name and makes it sound more like

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a fish than it actually is. But back to how I

00:10:47.950 --> 00:10:51.629
came up with that program. You are so good at

00:10:51.629 --> 00:10:54.289
reflecting that. You're doing this Tai Chi thing

00:10:54.289 --> 00:10:57.490
with me. I've gotten into trouble by saying things

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I shouldn't be saying. So I know I'm not an expert.

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But you're no longer in any station. I'm not

00:11:04.070 --> 00:11:06.730
in any station. Hey, I'm sorry, Simon. But really,

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this is how you sound. I'm just being freaking

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honest. Back to how I came up with those love

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song tags. The greatest of all human emotions.

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Actually, those lines came from a very famous

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book. Of course, I wasn't romantic. I'm the least

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romantic person in the world. You gotta be kidding

00:11:24.860 --> 00:11:27.799
me. Yeah, I'm not. Oh, come on. I am not at all.

00:11:28.659 --> 00:11:32.179
I'm so not into romantic dinners or even listening

00:11:32.179 --> 00:11:35.399
to love songs. What? Yeah, I was more into getting

00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:38.779
my tan every weekend. So to inspire myself, I

00:11:38.779 --> 00:11:41.980
got this book. Khalil Gibram. Or Gilbram? Khalil

00:11:41.980 --> 00:11:45.200
Gibram. Khalil Gibram. Okay. Yeah. And it was

00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:47.659
about love. You know, it talked about love and

00:11:47.659 --> 00:11:49.720
the emotions of love. So I read through that

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entire book and that tag, the greatest of all

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human emotions, comes from that book. So I wasn't

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original actually. I mean, I have to give credit.

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You were doing this character acting thing you

00:12:00.360 --> 00:12:02.799
mean. Correct. And just to think about like,

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what are these like, you know, great emotions

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and how do you express them? And what are the...

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proper phrases and words to use. It came from

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that book. Who came up with this love goddess

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moniker for you? I think the love goddess came

00:12:15.159 --> 00:12:18.159
from a colleague of mine who was in class 95.

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I think his name, I think it was Chris. Chris

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Ho? No, it wasn't Chris Ho. Chris, I think he's

00:12:24.379 --> 00:12:26.679
based in the US now. He left, he wasn't there

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for very long and he was just one of the part

00:12:29.179 --> 00:12:32.379
-timers. Chris Goh? Yes. He's back on air anyway.

00:12:32.580 --> 00:12:36.320
Is he back on air? Yes, on 1FM. Oh. Sorry, on

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Goh. Whoops. whoops on gold on gold he's on gold

00:12:39.779 --> 00:12:42.279
now Christopher Gold yeah yeah and I think one

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day he said to me yo the love goddess is coming

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on tonight and then it just stuck you know and

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then it just got around and they just started

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using that hey Kai can we put up that picture

00:12:53.539 --> 00:12:56.539
of the love goddess please Let everyone reminisce

00:12:56.539 --> 00:12:58.899
again. There you go. Well, actually, that wasn't

00:12:58.899 --> 00:13:02.679
me at Class 95. That was me at... Empower. No,

00:13:02.779 --> 00:13:05.600
in SPH Radio. It doesn't matter, man. It's still

00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:08.120
you. Yeah, that was the last publicity promo

00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:11.070
shot that I took. And that was it. They used

00:13:11.070 --> 00:13:13.149
to call me the transformation queen because I

00:13:13.149 --> 00:13:15.009
never looked like that before I got into the

00:13:15.009 --> 00:13:17.909
photo studio. I needed a lot of hair, a lot of

00:13:17.909 --> 00:13:20.370
makeup to get what you see now. Well, that's

00:13:20.370 --> 00:13:22.549
a great shot, by the way. All the stylists used

00:13:22.549 --> 00:13:24.929
to say, well, Suzanne, she needs MU. Without

00:13:24.929 --> 00:13:28.029
MU, please, you know, she needs help. MU, MU,

00:13:28.129 --> 00:13:31.309
makeup. Yes. So I was really a product of good

00:13:31.309 --> 00:13:35.129
styling. And I don't mean to sound like, to sound,

00:13:35.230 --> 00:13:38.649
to bust everyone's bubble, but it was the truth.

00:13:38.830 --> 00:13:41.250
You know, without a lot of professional help,

00:13:41.350 --> 00:13:43.789
I wouldn't be the Suzanne Walker everyone knows.

00:13:43.809 --> 00:13:46.250
Okay. I mentioned earlier when we started the

00:13:46.250 --> 00:13:49.309
show that I almost had the opportunity to have

00:13:49.309 --> 00:13:52.769
met you on set. But it didn't happen because

00:13:52.769 --> 00:13:55.649
our scenes were, we didn't have a scene together.

00:13:55.950 --> 00:13:59.210
Was it some masses of the sea? No, it wasn't

00:13:59.210 --> 00:14:05.759
a cockroach show. Ah, you cockroach or whatever.

00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:07.679
I stop you like a cockroach. I squish you like

00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:10.419
a cockroach. Something like that, yeah. No, it

00:14:10.419 --> 00:14:13.620
was Shiver. I think I was with K -Tongue, right?

00:14:13.700 --> 00:14:16.059
And then I had to do a love scene. I just hated

00:14:16.059 --> 00:14:17.899
it. I was such a bad actor. You had a love scene

00:14:17.899 --> 00:14:19.840
with K -Tongue? Something like, oh, we would

00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:22.659
fall into bed and they wanted me to be all natural

00:14:22.659 --> 00:14:24.559
about it. But I was so stiff. I was like, oh

00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:27.299
my goodness, I prefer radio any day. Was it that?

00:14:27.419 --> 00:14:28.940
Was it that episode? No, no, it wasn't that one.

00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:32.980
That was growing up, wasn't it? no no no no okay

00:14:32.980 --> 00:14:37.200
this was shiver it was a show called shiver um

00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:41.919
and and andrew it was just you me and andrew

00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:48.700
on that show for that script and i was Andrew

00:14:48.700 --> 00:14:53.220
is a journalist and he is happily married, but

00:14:53.220 --> 00:14:55.360
then he's been plagued by all kinds of funny

00:14:55.360 --> 00:14:56.960
things that have been happening, all the bad

00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:00.860
stuff that's been happening to him. And unbeknownst

00:15:00.860 --> 00:15:03.139
to him, someone has been trying to mess up his

00:15:03.139 --> 00:15:05.899
life. And then you walked into the picture. Now,

00:15:05.980 --> 00:15:08.320
we were not together because our scenes were

00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:10.500
never, we were never meant to be in any scene.

00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:15.549
And you turned out to be the woman that... The

00:15:15.549 --> 00:15:18.549
sexy lady, they walked in and into his life and

00:15:18.549 --> 00:15:22.110
nothing actually happened. But his wife got upset

00:15:22.110 --> 00:15:25.470
with him. And all the while, the guy that's been

00:15:25.470 --> 00:15:28.590
messing his life up was his own boss, his editor,

00:15:28.690 --> 00:15:33.049
and it's me. And I happen to be an alien. Oh

00:15:33.049 --> 00:15:35.309
my goodness. Planted on the planet to see how

00:15:35.309 --> 00:15:37.570
we can mess human beings' lives up. No wonder

00:15:37.570 --> 00:15:40.389
it was only for one season, right? Is that a

00:15:40.389 --> 00:15:43.470
storyline? That was a storyline. You know, I

00:15:43.470 --> 00:15:45.909
usually would just be asked to do something and

00:15:45.909 --> 00:15:47.929
I had to do it because it's all part of the...

00:15:47.929 --> 00:15:53.090
You had to sashay across the camera. Did I do

00:15:53.090 --> 00:15:56.009
that? Yes. Was this at Ballestier Road? Kim Tian

00:15:56.009 --> 00:15:58.649
mentioned some house there. I was not with you

00:15:58.649 --> 00:16:01.990
for your scene because we never had a scene together.

00:16:02.570 --> 00:16:04.409
But when we saw the final cut, right, when it

00:16:04.409 --> 00:16:07.070
was released, I said, oh yeah, this is Suzanne

00:16:07.070 --> 00:16:09.590
Walker just walking past the cameras and looking

00:16:09.590 --> 00:16:12.309
like, hmm, looking at Andrew like, hmm. Yeah,

00:16:12.389 --> 00:16:14.769
you know, I had to do a lot of these things because

00:16:14.769 --> 00:16:17.409
it's part of the job, right? So I would just

00:16:17.409 --> 00:16:20.029
go like, okay, what do you want me to do? And

00:16:20.029 --> 00:16:21.750
then, okay, do this. But I wouldn't actually

00:16:21.750 --> 00:16:24.450
know the whole script. Yeah, but I was thinking

00:16:24.450 --> 00:16:27.830
to myself, sharks, what the hell? I miss the

00:16:27.830 --> 00:16:31.789
love goddess. I think I remember that day. It

00:16:31.789 --> 00:16:34.370
was a very long day. And I think I shot in this

00:16:34.370 --> 00:16:36.490
little apartment in Kim Tian, I think somewhere

00:16:36.490 --> 00:16:39.230
around Ballastier. And it went on late into the

00:16:39.230 --> 00:16:40.950
night. It was one of those old walkout apartments.

00:16:41.289 --> 00:16:43.490
Some of these things, sometimes a short little

00:16:43.490 --> 00:16:45.649
scene can take hours. It would take hours. And

00:16:45.649 --> 00:16:47.409
that's the reason why I just realized, I mean,

00:16:47.450 --> 00:16:49.990
hats off to people who make a career in television,

00:16:50.210 --> 00:16:53.009
but those hours are long. It's crazy, man. And

00:16:53.009 --> 00:16:55.250
the kind of energy you need, it's just like,

00:16:55.289 --> 00:16:57.950
it's not the kind of energy. that even I think

00:16:57.950 --> 00:17:01.570
good DJs have. I remember when I was on the set

00:17:01.570 --> 00:17:04.769
of Triple Nine, I was also, I'm always a villain.

00:17:05.309 --> 00:17:08.269
You look the part, Chris. Look at me, man. Look

00:17:08.269 --> 00:17:10.329
at this bloody face of mine. No, but it's a strange

00:17:10.329 --> 00:17:13.890
thing that you never went into. TV or radio full

00:17:13.890 --> 00:17:16.529
time. I know him as someone who's like gone on

00:17:16.529 --> 00:17:19.150
and did something in the corporate world. But

00:17:19.150 --> 00:17:21.470
now I just hear that you were actually dabbling

00:17:21.470 --> 00:17:24.109
behind the scenes and doing a bit of pieces here

00:17:24.109 --> 00:17:26.349
and there on radio and TV. But how come it never

00:17:26.349 --> 00:17:28.390
panned out? I have no idea, man. I mean, you

00:17:28.390 --> 00:17:34.799
know, I went for fame awards. My goodness. That's

00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:36.519
like back in the 1990s, right? Yeah, yeah. And

00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:43.099
you know, back then when I had an ass. And I

00:17:43.099 --> 00:17:46.380
wasn't too bad, man, you know. And I didn't make

00:17:46.380 --> 00:17:51.819
it through. And after which, I mean, I told this

00:17:51.819 --> 00:17:55.319
story to everybody this season. Actually, I had

00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:59.519
a place on radio and for some funny, you know,

00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:04.039
circumstances came in and I didn't. and misunderstanding,

00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:09.579
miscommunication, and I didn't manage to go in.

00:18:09.660 --> 00:18:12.680
That's so unfortunate. So I pursued a completely

00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:20.640
different route and I went into the financial

00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:23.539
sector. Okay, I'm not going to really dwell so

00:18:23.539 --> 00:18:25.359
much on that because nowadays you talk about

00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:26.700
these things, you need to get permission, you

00:18:26.700 --> 00:18:28.200
know what I'm saying? So I'm not really going

00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:30.500
to talk so much about that. But you had an opportunity

00:18:30.500 --> 00:18:34.380
a long time ago. I did, I did. And for those

00:18:34.380 --> 00:18:36.519
who want to find out more, go and watch that

00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:39.299
episode that I had with Flying Dutchman, okay?

00:18:39.380 --> 00:18:42.220
I talked about that story there. But did you

00:18:42.220 --> 00:18:44.440
have to go through lots of interviews and voice

00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:46.559
tests too? No, man, there wasn't a need. Really?

00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:48.640
I went through four interviews. I didn't have

00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:51.980
to. I was like, you, you're coming on. Wow. You

00:18:51.980 --> 00:18:54.799
know, yeah. And that was how fantastic it was

00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:57.700
for me back then. I was so overjoyed because

00:18:57.700 --> 00:19:01.140
that's all I wanted to do in my life. Everything

00:19:01.140 --> 00:19:04.940
I've ever wanted was just that. But I suppose,

00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:07.759
you know, being staunchly Catholic, I would say

00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:09.640
that God has his ways and he works in mysterious

00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:12.259
ways. And look, you're a famous podcaster now.

00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:15.279
I'm not famous. No, I just want to say radio

00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:17.420
has changed. Okay, I'm sorry you missed that

00:19:17.420 --> 00:19:20.319
opportunity then. Yes, radio was at its heydays.

00:19:20.420 --> 00:19:23.079
You know, it was before TV caught up. So everyone

00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:25.880
was listening to the radio and it was so exciting

00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:28.940
to be a radio DJ. But I was just listening to

00:19:28.940 --> 00:19:31.220
the BBC the other day and all of them just talking

00:19:31.220 --> 00:19:33.970
about the podcast they're listening to. And like

00:19:33.970 --> 00:19:36.950
people now, they listen to podcasts before they

00:19:36.950 --> 00:19:39.869
go to bed or help them go to bed or before they

00:19:39.869 --> 00:19:42.490
go to bed. Or commuting. It's the same thing

00:19:42.490 --> 00:19:44.769
that people would say about radio, right? I would

00:19:44.769 --> 00:19:46.730
drive and listen to the radio. Before I go to

00:19:46.730 --> 00:19:48.250
bed, Suzanne, I'll listen to you on the radio.

00:19:48.349 --> 00:19:50.650
But these days, it's all about podcasts. So I

00:19:50.650 --> 00:19:54.049
think you're just taking, you know, you're now

00:19:54.049 --> 00:19:57.210
in radio, but a new generation of radio. I suppose

00:19:57.210 --> 00:20:01.210
so because Mediacorp put me through, back then

00:20:01.210 --> 00:20:04.609
it was called TCS. Put me through two months

00:20:04.609 --> 00:20:07.849
of training with, I don't know if you remember

00:20:07.849 --> 00:20:12.450
names like Cynthia Rosenfeld. No. This lady and

00:20:12.450 --> 00:20:16.990
her husband were contracted to train actors in

00:20:16.990 --> 00:20:20.089
Mediacorp, TCS back then. And these were the

00:20:20.089 --> 00:20:23.289
people who trained Kirstie Addy, Ted Danson for

00:20:23.289 --> 00:20:27.869
Cheers. Oh. Yeah. And I was with a whole group

00:20:27.869 --> 00:20:31.420
of people. Pardon me, but I think there's no

00:20:31.420 --> 00:20:34.960
harm in mentioning who these people are. Andrea

00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:38.799
D 'Cruz. We were the same batch. Oh. Yeah. And

00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:42.880
that was the reason why after that I got all

00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:45.380
the major role stuff that came in. Triple Nine,

00:20:45.940 --> 00:20:52.319
The Alien and Shiver, PCK. Oh. Yeah. And two

00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:55.000
months of training. Every week I was in Caldecott.

00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:57.759
And it was like actor training. Actor training,

00:20:57.900 --> 00:20:59.700
yeah. Oh, I think that's great. I don't even

00:20:59.700 --> 00:21:01.640
know if they have that still, right? I don't

00:21:01.640 --> 00:21:03.779
know. But I went through that. And then after

00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:08.640
that, my Elvis show. Okay. Okay. I do very good

00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:12.579
Elvis. And it was featured on Channel 8 as one

00:21:12.579 --> 00:21:16.240
of two features in this program called 车轮杂志,

00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:21.569
which was a very, very popular program. Channel

00:21:21.569 --> 00:21:25.289
8 viewers homes so you gave up your dream about

00:21:25.289 --> 00:21:27.490
radio and you moved into television no I mean

00:21:27.490 --> 00:21:29.710
what's the next best thing no no no I didn't

00:21:29.710 --> 00:21:31.569
move into television I was acting major role

00:21:31.569 --> 00:21:34.690
just for major role acting not full time nothing

00:21:34.690 --> 00:21:37.309
like that so when they got a role they cast and

00:21:37.309 --> 00:21:39.609
they think I think this guy can do this one this

00:21:39.609 --> 00:21:41.650
role and just call him up my goodness you spent

00:21:41.650 --> 00:21:44.059
all your free time probably at Caldecott Earning

00:21:44.059 --> 00:21:46.599
very little, but just enjoying life. Yeah, you

00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:49.279
know, they never paid, but everyone did it for

00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:51.299
passion. Yeah, I mean, I did it for experience.

00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:53.740
I did it to learn. And I think I learned quite

00:21:53.740 --> 00:21:57.039
a bit, which... Turned out to be a good thing

00:21:57.039 --> 00:21:59.519
for me because I do a lot of live shows. I do

00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:02.980
a lot of D &Ds and all kinds of stuff. Yeah,

00:22:03.019 --> 00:22:04.539
I don't know how you can do it. I mean, hats

00:22:04.539 --> 00:22:06.640
off. I mean, that's the reason why I wasn't...

00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:08.079
It's been 40 years doing it. Yeah, you're still

00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:10.440
doing it. And hats off. A lot of people still

00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.880
like to do MC work. I'm a terrible host. I just

00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:18.319
MC'd an amazing show two nights ago for a wedding

00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:21.839
of two musicians. They got married and they're

00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:24.039
fantastically talented. Half the ballroom was

00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:26.599
filled with seasoned musicians. Yuzos, man. It

00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:28.839
was heaven. If you have a crowd like that, yes,

00:22:28.940 --> 00:22:32.400
it's easy to host. But if you have a very serious

00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:35.220
corporate crowd... It all depends on what the

00:22:35.220 --> 00:22:37.940
program calls for. I mean, the end justifies

00:22:37.940 --> 00:22:39.859
the means, right? You begin with the end in mind.

00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:42.799
So if they want it to be fun, then okay. Then

00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:46.339
you have to expect the crowd to be... Hello,

00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:48.700
this is a Singaporean audience, man. Singaporeans

00:22:48.700 --> 00:22:50.619
are awkward that way. You got to put a pause

00:22:50.619 --> 00:22:52.880
sign there for people to clap. But I don't do

00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:54.750
that. I say, hello. Take your left hand. take

00:22:54.750 --> 00:22:56.670
your right hand, put together, go faster again.

00:22:56.809 --> 00:22:59.549
This is called clap, clap, clap your clap. And

00:22:59.549 --> 00:23:01.670
that's the reason why everyone thinks it's easy

00:23:01.670 --> 00:23:04.170
work. It's not. It's hard work. It's not. But

00:23:04.170 --> 00:23:07.349
if I may leave, but this is a mantra I started

00:23:07.349 --> 00:23:09.529
and I think a lot of MCs are using that now because

00:23:09.529 --> 00:23:11.890
FD and I had the MC Academy by the Flying Dutchman.

00:23:11.910 --> 00:23:15.390
We taught for seven years and this is original

00:23:15.390 --> 00:23:17.990
to me. I told FD on that when he came here that,

00:23:18.089 --> 00:23:20.750
bro, don't say that. That one is copyrighted

00:23:20.750 --> 00:23:23.410
to me, man. That's my baby. I said that. Spit

00:23:23.410 --> 00:23:26.180
it out. we're the glue that bind the glitter.

00:23:26.700 --> 00:23:28.960
We're not the glitter. As long as we remember

00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:31.539
we're the glue. And we always have objective

00:23:31.539 --> 00:23:33.740
in mind and just keep the program hyped. Yes.

00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:35.900
And we keep going on and on and on. Don't let

00:23:35.900 --> 00:23:38.720
the program, the hype drop. And it can be so

00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:40.480
exhausting at the end of the night. And then

00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:42.480
you're so hyped up, you can't really go to bed.

00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:44.640
So you have to like stay up and then it's like

00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:47.700
2 a .m. and you're still up. It's almost the

00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:49.759
same thing as what you did before as a love goddess,

00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:54.980
right? If I want to ask you, hey, The stories,

00:23:54.980 --> 00:23:57.299
you told me NS men will queue up at a public

00:23:57.299 --> 00:23:59.059
phone and they'll call you up and leave dedications.

00:23:59.299 --> 00:24:01.500
I mean, you must have heard so many stories.

00:24:01.660 --> 00:24:05.440
I also remember there were a couple of occasions

00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:09.200
where you got upset with some things when a lady

00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:10.779
calls up, especially the women, when they call

00:24:10.779 --> 00:24:14.319
up and they tell you some cockamamie, not cockamamie,

00:24:14.420 --> 00:24:17.319
not bullshit, but some cockamamie stupid shit

00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:23.819
that their other half, husband, boyfriend, would

00:24:23.819 --> 00:24:27.079
have said or done to them. And then you go absolutely

00:24:27.079 --> 00:24:29.900
ballistic. Okay, well. I remember those times.

00:24:29.980 --> 00:24:31.680
There were times like that. I don't. Moments

00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:33.720
like that. Really? Yeah. Okay, then it was just

00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:36.900
me being my authentic self, which, yeah, I felt

00:24:36.900 --> 00:24:39.279
like, I mean, sometimes people said that was

00:24:39.279 --> 00:24:42.960
bad because like, I was too real at times, you

00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:45.980
know, but I guess today, this is so important,

00:24:46.059 --> 00:24:48.380
right? Being your authentic self now, you know,

00:24:48.380 --> 00:24:52.009
but yeah, I would. But the funny thing is I never

00:24:52.009 --> 00:24:55.170
got a complaint. I used to sometimes leave the

00:24:55.170 --> 00:24:57.750
program thinking, oh no, someone's going to call

00:24:57.750 --> 00:25:01.250
and complain about what I said. But no, actually,

00:25:01.450 --> 00:25:04.809
what I remember, Chris, are actually very lonely

00:25:04.809 --> 00:25:07.009
people who called me up later on in the night.

00:25:07.109 --> 00:25:09.589
The show would run until 2 a .m. So around 1

00:25:09.589 --> 00:25:13.150
a .m. Usually, I mean, the calls would slow down.

00:25:13.309 --> 00:25:15.410
And the ones that I pick up sometimes are women

00:25:15.410 --> 00:25:18.589
who actually are not sleeping and whose husbands

00:25:18.589 --> 00:25:21.769
are not home. And you know what the husband is

00:25:21.769 --> 00:25:25.490
doing, having an affair. And she just wants to

00:25:25.490 --> 00:25:27.430
talk to me because she's put the kids to bed

00:25:27.430 --> 00:25:30.130
and she's just sitting there wondering what her

00:25:30.130 --> 00:25:32.369
life has come to. I remember this lady and she

00:25:32.369 --> 00:25:34.490
would just tell me, I'm eating French. I cooked

00:25:34.490 --> 00:25:36.950
French fries. I was listening to you. Now I've

00:25:36.950 --> 00:25:38.970
cooked my French fries. I want to eat my French

00:25:38.970 --> 00:25:41.490
fries, but I need to talk to someone. I remember

00:25:41.490 --> 00:25:44.809
this lady very vividly till today. She called

00:25:44.809 --> 00:25:47.609
me once or twice. And then another time a girl

00:25:47.609 --> 00:25:50.769
was telling me she wanted. to you know jump and

00:25:50.769 --> 00:25:54.470
stuff yeah so these were the calls I remember

00:25:54.470 --> 00:25:57.950
wow yeah but if any girl called me and told me

00:25:57.950 --> 00:26:00.269
my boyfriend's cheating on me but I still love

00:26:00.269 --> 00:26:03.529
him yeah I think I will get ballistic I do that

00:26:03.529 --> 00:26:05.609
even till today so don't be a silly girl yes

00:26:05.609 --> 00:26:09.529
yeah but actually that show made me realize how

00:26:09.529 --> 00:26:12.630
loneliness can really crack people up and I took

00:26:12.630 --> 00:26:16.150
a few of these calls You know, I've encountered

00:26:16.150 --> 00:26:19.230
some of those calls that you've had with some

00:26:19.230 --> 00:26:21.369
of these people, which just goes to show how

00:26:21.369 --> 00:26:23.029
hard I work in my life. You know, I come back

00:26:23.029 --> 00:26:24.450
home late at night because I can listen to your

00:26:24.450 --> 00:26:28.150
show. It's always in the car. Yeah, yeah, the

00:26:28.150 --> 00:26:33.769
car. And of late, I've asked myself, because

00:26:33.769 --> 00:26:35.849
I know that you're coming on my show today, right?

00:26:35.950 --> 00:26:39.910
I actually asked myself, why? Why don't we have

00:26:39.910 --> 00:26:43.190
this sort of shows anymore? Because I think it

00:26:43.190 --> 00:26:47.259
really pays. It does a great service for people.

00:26:48.019 --> 00:26:51.440
Well, I think everyone feels that it's not needed

00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:53.920
anymore because there's Spotify, you know, you

00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:55.779
can go on YouTube. No, no, it's not about that.

00:26:56.220 --> 00:27:00.700
It's a person that talks about love. And show

00:27:00.700 --> 00:27:02.660
someone how much you love that person. Call me

00:27:02.660 --> 00:27:06.500
up. Tell me your story. It's still relevant to

00:27:06.500 --> 00:27:09.039
this day. It will never go out of fashion. Yeah,

00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:11.119
you know, actually, I feel that it's even...

00:27:11.529 --> 00:27:13.490
probably going to be more of a success today.

00:27:13.630 --> 00:27:15.849
Because back in the day, some of these youngsters

00:27:15.849 --> 00:27:17.890
would only use the payphone and after three minutes,

00:27:17.930 --> 00:27:19.730
you'll hear the beep, beep, beep. Another 10

00:27:19.730 --> 00:27:22.509
cents, 10 cents. Put another 10 cents here. Now

00:27:22.509 --> 00:27:25.369
they have their headphones and they can actually

00:27:25.369 --> 00:27:27.230
finish the story for me. And they don't even

00:27:27.230 --> 00:27:29.789
need to leave their real names too. Yeah, they

00:27:29.789 --> 00:27:32.950
don't have to. Or they can even WhatsApp and

00:27:32.950 --> 00:27:36.049
then I can call them up now. Before, it was really

00:27:36.049 --> 00:27:38.329
just about phone lines coming through. You know

00:27:38.329 --> 00:27:40.710
what? An idea just struck me. Hey Kai, remember?

00:27:40.809 --> 00:27:44.789
what FD said about going live? Remember we go

00:27:44.789 --> 00:27:46.289
live on a Saturday morning or something like

00:27:46.289 --> 00:27:48.349
that? Remember what he said? Maybe we should

00:27:48.349 --> 00:27:51.950
just do one where he called me. You should. Actually,

00:27:52.029 --> 00:27:54.809
I've seen podcast programs where they're taking

00:27:54.809 --> 00:27:56.750
calls as well. So you can do it. But you know

00:27:56.750 --> 00:27:59.869
what's sad about that bit? As I also said to

00:27:59.869 --> 00:28:04.069
FD before in that episode. Now look, if only...

00:28:04.670 --> 00:28:07.690
you know we can do we we podcast can also do

00:28:07.690 --> 00:28:10.349
music like a music station because copyrights

00:28:10.349 --> 00:28:13.150
are always an issue uh and then play music and

00:28:13.150 --> 00:28:14.549
then okay we're gonna play this song for your

00:28:14.549 --> 00:28:17.369
dedication station you know and but it's digital

00:28:17.369 --> 00:28:20.029
right like online i mean like this like this

00:28:20.029 --> 00:28:23.609
show right but we can't do that the reason why

00:28:23.609 --> 00:28:26.009
your show was a success in my mind was because

00:28:26.589 --> 00:28:28.930
you take in dedications, you can play requests,

00:28:29.190 --> 00:28:31.809
you can play all these lovely songs, you know,

00:28:31.829 --> 00:28:35.750
and it's meaningful. So people feel that there's

00:28:35.750 --> 00:28:38.049
a high touch to it. Yeah. And I just, I think

00:28:38.049 --> 00:28:42.190
it's not accurate to say that giving someone

00:28:42.190 --> 00:28:46.529
a dedicated song, it's not a big deal anymore.

00:28:46.670 --> 00:28:50.230
I think it's... It's a big deal. It really comes

00:28:50.230 --> 00:28:53.109
from the heart, that message, you know, and you

00:28:53.109 --> 00:28:56.069
can hear it in the voice and people forget that

00:28:56.069 --> 00:28:58.829
the audio can be so emotional. Yeah, exactly.

00:28:59.089 --> 00:29:04.009
And now you have great sound systems. The voice

00:29:04.009 --> 00:29:08.769
comes across even more dynamic and intense. How

00:29:08.769 --> 00:29:14.160
long were you... I was there for that program

00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:19.339
from 1993 to early 1996. Yeah. Then I went to

00:29:19.339 --> 00:29:24.319
Power 98. And then my last stint was with SPH

00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:27.259
Radio from the time they bought over WKRC to

00:29:27.259 --> 00:29:30.720
when it went to SPH. They built the studio in

00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:34.960
SPH. And then in 2009, I just said, I think that's

00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:37.160
enough. I mean, radio never paid well, okay?

00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:40.259
I just want to be clear. If you really wanted

00:29:40.259 --> 00:29:42.319
to make money in radio, you had to do a lot of

00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:45.420
hosting MC gigs. And it was not my thing because

00:29:45.420 --> 00:29:48.079
it's very tiring. You can't give your all. on

00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:50.319
radio and then give your all in a night at an

00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:54.299
MC gig you just can't so it's either one or the

00:29:54.299 --> 00:29:57.339
other and I actually chose to focus on radio

00:29:57.339 --> 00:30:02.339
and I just decided that okay in 2009 it's time

00:30:02.339 --> 00:30:05.789
to look at you know building up my cpf so i can

00:30:05.789 --> 00:30:09.990
get my flag these are serious things for every

00:30:09.990 --> 00:30:12.710
singaporean and and i'm sure everyone's happy

00:30:12.710 --> 00:30:15.109
to hear that i have managed to actually build

00:30:15.109 --> 00:30:18.470
up my cpf so it's it's been it's been good for

00:30:18.470 --> 00:30:21.750
me but but i spent a good part of my life just

00:30:21.750 --> 00:30:24.769
doing what i love and i have no regrets and after

00:30:24.769 --> 00:30:27.970
radio Where do you go? I joined the civil service

00:30:27.970 --> 00:30:31.970
and I was an information officer for 11 years

00:30:31.970 --> 00:30:34.829
and it was completely different. And I had to

00:30:34.829 --> 00:30:38.089
really leave my radio career, my radio persona

00:30:38.089 --> 00:30:41.920
behind and then move on to be. A civil servant.

00:30:42.059 --> 00:30:43.619
How was that for you? I mean, how do you feel

00:30:43.619 --> 00:30:45.660
about that? I mean, you know, you spent years,

00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:49.380
years being that personality on the air. Then

00:30:49.380 --> 00:30:51.599
suddenly you're a civil servant and suddenly

00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:55.119
there are rules to follow. Yeah, real rules.

00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:57.359
I remember the first time I wrote a submission

00:30:57.359 --> 00:30:59.299
and then they said like, you can't use I, you

00:30:59.299 --> 00:31:01.880
have to use we because, and that kind of gives

00:31:01.880 --> 00:31:03.660
you an indication that in the civil service,

00:31:03.740 --> 00:31:06.339
it's not about you. You just have to take a back

00:31:06.339 --> 00:31:10.259
seat. even my voice had to take a back seat because,

00:31:10.460 --> 00:31:13.059
you know, you're doing government work. And a

00:31:13.059 --> 00:31:15.180
lot of people were just surprised that I lasted

00:31:15.180 --> 00:31:17.240
so long. Many people just told me, maybe after

00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:19.059
two years, you'll come running back to radio.

00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:23.099
But I stuck around. But I think 11 years is long

00:31:23.099 --> 00:31:25.779
enough. Why did you stick around? I mean, did

00:31:25.779 --> 00:31:30.339
you really start to enjoy it? it was a different

00:31:30.339 --> 00:31:33.299
world altogether and that's what I appreciated

00:31:33.299 --> 00:31:36.019
and I thought I was doing something for Singapore

00:31:36.019 --> 00:31:38.299
you know just like for radio you're doing it

00:31:38.299 --> 00:31:41.359
for your listeners you know I mean back in the

00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:43.559
old days I don't know what the thinking is right

00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:45.480
now but when I joined the civil service it was

00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.539
to serve Singapore I mean it's a calling right

00:31:48.539 --> 00:31:53.119
so I always thought like I'm doing this for the

00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:55.380
nation. We are just supporting the government

00:31:55.380 --> 00:31:57.259
of the day and we're doing what we need to do.

00:31:57.500 --> 00:32:00.019
And the end product is it's supposed to help

00:32:00.019 --> 00:32:03.700
the nation. But in time, it becomes a job. So

00:32:03.700 --> 00:32:05.759
after a while, you just have to be realistic

00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:07.500
and just say, okay. So what did you do specifically?

00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:11.130
I mean, where were you? You get posted everywhere.

00:32:11.210 --> 00:32:13.250
The Ministry of Manpower, Enterprise Singapore,

00:32:13.650 --> 00:32:16.730
National Youth Council Singapore, and then even

00:32:16.730 --> 00:32:18.569
the National Research Foundation. So you get

00:32:18.569 --> 00:32:20.869
posted everywhere. But you attained eventually

00:32:20.869 --> 00:32:23.109
in the civil service a senior leadership role,

00:32:23.170 --> 00:32:27.609
right? Yeah, but I mean... Was it relief, fear

00:32:27.609 --> 00:32:31.930
or excitement when you decided to, I mean, when

00:32:31.930 --> 00:32:35.869
you got that position? It just meant more work.

00:32:36.029 --> 00:32:39.309
But you left radio after so long. You went into

00:32:39.309 --> 00:32:42.470
civil service. You took it on as a national service,

00:32:42.609 --> 00:32:44.970
right? To serve your nation and the government

00:32:44.970 --> 00:32:48.150
in the day. And then you got into a senior leadership

00:32:48.150 --> 00:32:50.789
position. I mean, did you ever expect that? No,

00:32:50.809 --> 00:32:53.190
I didn't. And I don't think I was cut out to

00:32:53.190 --> 00:32:56.650
be in that position. To be honest, because as

00:32:56.650 --> 00:32:59.509
you get high up in the civil service, you know,

00:32:59.529 --> 00:33:04.200
it's a different ballgame altogether. It's real

00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:06.940
serious work, you know, and you support the government

00:33:06.940 --> 00:33:09.640
of day and doing communications work that supports

00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:14.200
the priorities at a national level. And it really

00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:16.000
made me question. And of course, the hours are

00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:18.599
long. And it really made me question whether

00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:22.400
this is really what I want to do, because do

00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:26.539
I really want to climb even higher and take on

00:33:26.539 --> 00:33:30.259
that added stress? But I have to say some of

00:33:30.259 --> 00:33:35.430
these postings. changed me okay i was at enterprise

00:33:35.430 --> 00:33:38.289
singapore and i worked there during covid and

00:33:38.289 --> 00:33:42.309
oh how we worked so hard to to let everyone know

00:33:42.309 --> 00:33:44.170
that singapore was still open for business it

00:33:44.170 --> 00:33:46.730
was necessary for our country because we must

00:33:46.730 --> 00:33:49.769
have trade this was just recent covid yeah covid

00:33:49.769 --> 00:33:52.750
and and The work, you know, I realized that there

00:33:52.750 --> 00:33:55.609
was meaning and value. Then I was posted to the

00:33:55.609 --> 00:33:57.529
National Youth Council. And I have to say that

00:33:57.529 --> 00:33:59.410
really changed my perspective because I worked

00:33:59.410 --> 00:34:01.589
with so many young people. And you know what?

00:34:01.630 --> 00:34:03.569
They questioned me. They asked me, is this your

00:34:03.569 --> 00:34:06.630
passion? You know, now Gen Z, Gen Millennial.

00:34:07.549 --> 00:34:11.210
They would just say, is this what you're passionate

00:34:11.210 --> 00:34:14.250
about? Now you should do work that you're passionate

00:34:14.250 --> 00:34:18.159
about. They actually made me question. what I

00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:20.519
was doing. And then I said, well, aren't you

00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:22.599
doing something that maybe you don't have passion

00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:24.360
about? But then they said, yes, but I have a

00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:26.840
side hustle. And my side hustle is my passion

00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:30.099
project. So even though I don't... I don't make

00:34:30.099 --> 00:34:32.539
a living with what I'm passionate about. At least

00:34:32.539 --> 00:34:34.699
I have a side hustle and that keeps me sane and

00:34:34.699 --> 00:34:37.219
keeps a balance in my life. And how about you,

00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:39.739
Suzanne? So they were so pointed and they asked

00:34:39.739 --> 00:34:42.380
me these questions and I realized times are changing.

00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:45.000
Now it's not like your parents' time where you

00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:47.119
work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work,

00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:49.539
work and save money and then you're doing you're

00:34:49.539 --> 00:34:53.210
on the right track. And I think what they tried

00:34:53.210 --> 00:34:55.949
to convince me, and I was convinced, was that

00:34:55.949 --> 00:34:59.150
you also need to do things that are meaningful

00:34:59.150 --> 00:35:04.030
to you, that gives you happiness, you know, even

00:35:04.030 --> 00:35:06.829
if your day job doesn't. And that's when I realized

00:35:06.829 --> 00:35:10.329
that, okay, maybe it's time to look around to

00:35:10.329 --> 00:35:13.190
see what else, you know, I can do that gives

00:35:13.190 --> 00:35:16.130
me the bliss. Wait, hang on. So these young people

00:35:16.130 --> 00:35:21.920
actually were the catalyst. for you to take that

00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:25.380
plunge to leave. You left, right? Yes, I left.

00:35:25.539 --> 00:35:28.739
They were the ones that planted the seed. Nowadays,

00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:31.559
I tell you, Chris, youngsters just don't go,

00:35:31.639 --> 00:35:33.599
I want to get a job. I want to get this job and

00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:35.139
that's it. I'm going to work there for the next

00:35:35.139 --> 00:35:38.280
30 years. They're like, five years is good enough

00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:39.980
and let's see what's next. It's so funny, you

00:35:39.980 --> 00:35:43.119
know, just to echo what my dear friend Adrian

00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:48.179
Chu, the career strategist, always says that

00:35:48.619 --> 00:35:51.380
Back in our day, employers will look at your

00:35:51.380 --> 00:35:55.139
CV, your resume and say, wow, you're a very loyal

00:35:55.139 --> 00:35:56.619
person. You've been with this company for so

00:35:56.619 --> 00:35:59.719
long and people like you for that. Employers,

00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:02.739
it's a plus point, you know. But these days,

00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:05.860
if you don't have too many things on your resume,

00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:10.940
they frown. Exactly. They'd rather have you have

00:36:10.940 --> 00:36:13.679
more sets of experience, moving around from company

00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:15.380
to company to company, taking different positions,

00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:19.960
rather than seeing you being loyal to one. But

00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:22.219
that's what they were telling me. And I was like,

00:36:22.300 --> 00:36:24.480
but I thought I'm being loyal, right? They said...

00:36:24.989 --> 00:36:27.110
But then are you passionate in what you're doing,

00:36:27.210 --> 00:36:30.030
right? So they asked these really pointed questions

00:36:30.030 --> 00:36:32.809
and it got me thinking. And I see how happy they

00:36:32.809 --> 00:36:34.730
are, you know, like they love photography. Some

00:36:34.730 --> 00:36:37.230
of them will work Monday to Friday and on Saturdays,

00:36:37.230 --> 00:36:39.190
they're wedding photographers and it gives them

00:36:39.190 --> 00:36:41.829
so much joy to get out there, you know. They

00:36:41.829 --> 00:36:43.469
spend the whole day taking photos and making

00:36:43.469 --> 00:36:46.369
people happy and then showing me their Instagram

00:36:46.369 --> 00:36:48.670
feed and all the photos that they've done. Others

00:36:48.670 --> 00:36:51.059
just love to cook, you know. So how long have

00:36:51.059 --> 00:36:54.880
you left your full -time job? I left in October.

00:36:55.159 --> 00:36:57.699
So it's just been a while. So from then to now,

00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:01.000
have these young people proven themselves right?

00:37:01.699 --> 00:37:06.980
I'm happy. I just got a text today asking me

00:37:06.980 --> 00:37:09.639
how I'm doing. But I'm happy. I think 11 years

00:37:09.639 --> 00:37:15.079
in a job is long enough. And I'm okay. I thought

00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:18.239
maybe I should be busy. I mean, I still sleep

00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:24.030
with my phone. Now I realize just this morning,

00:37:24.070 --> 00:37:26.289
I don't have to sleep with my phone. I can just

00:37:26.289 --> 00:37:30.289
leave it on the desk charging overnight. I would

00:37:30.289 --> 00:37:34.909
have thought that this decision to leave your

00:37:34.909 --> 00:37:38.570
full -time civil service job was because years

00:37:38.570 --> 00:37:42.530
ago, someone said to you about being true to

00:37:42.530 --> 00:37:46.489
oneself, the late Chris Ho. I thought he would

00:37:46.489 --> 00:37:50.860
have been the catalyst for you. To make that

00:37:50.860 --> 00:37:52.780
decision. Yeah, he said this to you, didn't he?

00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:57.340
Being true to oneself. Yeah, he did. And I think

00:37:57.340 --> 00:38:00.400
what happened was Chris came to me during SARS.

00:38:00.699 --> 00:38:03.380
And SARS during that time... Those who lived

00:38:03.380 --> 00:38:05.820
through SARS would know that it was very tough.

00:38:06.059 --> 00:38:08.239
It was not like COVID where the government gave

00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:10.280
you money and you could like tie through, right?

00:38:10.380 --> 00:38:12.940
SARS, my goodness, contracts were pulled, everyone

00:38:12.940 --> 00:38:15.579
lost their jobs. SARS was a different ballgame.

00:38:15.619 --> 00:38:17.920
Sorry, businesses are just going under. Sorry,

00:38:18.039 --> 00:38:20.039
you just have to deal with it. But the thing

00:38:20.039 --> 00:38:22.260
about SARS was that there were many people who

00:38:22.260 --> 00:38:24.920
were unemployed. And so we all hung out together.

00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:28.300
And Chris Ho at that time was starting a new

00:38:28.300 --> 00:38:31.980
band, a concept band. And he asked me to be Susu

00:38:31.980 --> 00:38:35.260
Law, this alter ego. And I was just telling him,

00:38:35.380 --> 00:38:38.599
oh, maybe I shouldn't do this. I should be focused

00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:41.480
on finding a job. How can I just like use my

00:38:41.480 --> 00:38:44.159
time unemployed to get into a band and do all

00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:48.679
these crazy things with you, Chris? And he was

00:38:48.679 --> 00:38:51.150
like. No, that's the thing about Singapore. They

00:38:51.150 --> 00:38:53.090
expect you to be productive all the time. They

00:38:53.090 --> 00:38:54.949
expect you to do the right thing. And if you

00:38:54.949 --> 00:38:58.690
use this time to join a band, then they think

00:38:58.690 --> 00:39:00.989
that you're not being useful when you should

00:39:00.989 --> 00:39:04.070
be useful going out there, sending out applications,

00:39:04.309 --> 00:39:05.969
trying to get a job, when realistically, what

00:39:05.969 --> 00:39:07.750
are the chances of you getting a job at this

00:39:07.750 --> 00:39:10.809
point? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then he said, like,

00:39:10.889 --> 00:39:13.440
be true to yourself. What do you want? Like,

00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:16.539
you know, don't feel bad because you're not doing

00:39:16.539 --> 00:39:18.800
what everyone expects you to do, right? Well,

00:39:18.860 --> 00:39:22.960
he's like that too. I mean, he's, how would I

00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:26.840
describe Chris Ho? He's a rebel. Yeah, he's a

00:39:26.840 --> 00:39:29.500
rebel. He's a rebel. He's crazy too. Yeah, you

00:39:29.500 --> 00:39:33.019
know, and that guy would just go against the

00:39:33.019 --> 00:39:36.679
norm anyway. Yeah. So, I mean. He made a lot

00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:38.320
of sense and said, is this what you want to do?

00:39:38.380 --> 00:39:40.260
And I realized it was great. It was a great outlet

00:39:40.260 --> 00:39:42.940
because I, like many people, were angry. We had

00:39:42.940 --> 00:39:44.960
lost our jobs. We had nothing to do. We're just

00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:47.440
like, when is this going to end? We had to ride

00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:50.179
it through, right? And, you know, it affected

00:39:50.179 --> 00:39:52.239
our professional and personal lives as well.

00:39:52.829 --> 00:39:56.329
I mean, the angst, that anger, the rebellion

00:39:56.329 --> 00:39:58.469
that I was feeling, which Chris brought out,

00:39:58.550 --> 00:40:01.809
it was great. It was great to channel it in that

00:40:01.809 --> 00:40:05.809
band. And, you know, in fact, now that I have

00:40:05.809 --> 00:40:08.610
left, it's not painful. Everyone thinks it's

00:40:08.610 --> 00:40:11.949
painful, right? But during that time at SARS

00:40:11.949 --> 00:40:14.250
and what happened and what Chris shared with

00:40:14.250 --> 00:40:17.909
me, it helps me now because I use that same lesson,

00:40:17.989 --> 00:40:21.949
right? Why must change be bad? Change can be

00:40:21.949 --> 00:40:24.809
good. What makes you think it's going to be worse

00:40:24.809 --> 00:40:26.849
just because you've left your job in the civil

00:40:26.849 --> 00:40:28.409
service? Of course, everyone thinks it's very

00:40:28.409 --> 00:40:31.510
bad. I can tell you that. But it can be good.

00:40:32.329 --> 00:40:34.449
Is this your life purpose to be in the civil

00:40:34.449 --> 00:40:38.630
service? It could be something else. Why do you

00:40:38.630 --> 00:40:41.210
think there's no other options for you? How could

00:40:41.210 --> 00:40:43.730
you close yourself off to opportunities that

00:40:43.730 --> 00:40:46.530
the universe is waiting to present to you? And

00:40:46.530 --> 00:40:48.230
I know this is very airy -fairy, but it's very

00:40:48.230 --> 00:40:51.269
Chris Ho, right? And this is the same thoughts

00:40:51.269 --> 00:40:54.269
that play with me now at this age, I think 20

00:40:54.269 --> 00:40:57.039
years after. yeah after that that time yeah i

00:40:57.039 --> 00:40:59.280
mean i see where he's coming from i mean certain

00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:02.760
certainly as years go by some of i mean most

00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:06.000
of us i hope you know we get struck by a few

00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:08.820
epiphanies in life don't we yes right like you

00:41:08.820 --> 00:41:12.019
know screw this man stop about and go running

00:41:12.019 --> 00:41:14.840
around chasing after chasing after some cheese

00:41:14.840 --> 00:41:19.599
yeah i mean like realistically what do you want

00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:22.320
out of life you know so I mean, a lot of these

00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:25.500
things, it's okay. It wasn't just the people

00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:27.239
I worked with at the National Youth Council,

00:41:27.260 --> 00:41:29.659
but it was, of course, in the past what has happened.

00:41:29.860 --> 00:41:33.139
And it just made me realize, like, I remember

00:41:33.139 --> 00:41:35.000
some of these conversations I had in the office.

00:41:35.019 --> 00:41:37.739
And I went back and as I was traveling home and

00:41:37.739 --> 00:41:40.239
I thought about it. And these things actually

00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:43.739
set things in motion for me, you know, and made

00:41:43.739 --> 00:41:46.800
me just realize. okay, I mean, everyone is putting

00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:48.760
a lot of pressure on you because, you know, you're

00:41:48.760 --> 00:41:51.260
at the senior level and you're like quite old

00:41:51.260 --> 00:41:53.860
already and honestly want to leave and like start

00:41:53.860 --> 00:41:57.340
anew. I'm like, what's wrong with that? Yeah,

00:41:57.340 --> 00:42:02.440
yeah. When you started your podcast, Women Talking.

00:42:02.760 --> 00:42:06.380
Yeah, yeah. Did it happen? Did that start whilst

00:42:06.380 --> 00:42:08.519
you were still working in the civil service or

00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:10.940
after you've left? Well, I was still there. I

00:42:10.940 --> 00:42:13.860
just started it. And I did it because I was a

00:42:13.860 --> 00:42:15.440
bit tired. Because, you know, when you do government

00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:17.420
comms, they're very broad, right? Very broad.

00:42:17.500 --> 00:42:19.460
And this is all for the nation. And yeah, these

00:42:19.460 --> 00:42:21.800
are the priorities. But I feel that, you know,

00:42:21.800 --> 00:42:25.000
I'm from a radio background where people's stories

00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:28.079
are usually where the gems are, correct? And

00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:31.079
I think it was a part of me that missed that.

00:42:31.420 --> 00:42:35.400
And I also, at a certain age, when you're past

00:42:35.400 --> 00:42:38.840
45, you realize many of your women friends have

00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:42.880
gone through amazing, amazing journeys. And yet

00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:45.920
no one recognizes them. Yeah. And Singapore rewards

00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:48.019
you if you're a millionaire or billionaire or

00:42:48.019 --> 00:42:51.440
you are a CEO or you're very good in the stock

00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:54.539
market or you got recognized overseas and you

00:42:54.539 --> 00:42:58.050
won a Grammy Award. But the validation comes

00:42:58.050 --> 00:43:01.010
with these external recognition. But many women

00:43:01.010 --> 00:43:04.070
in their personal lives have really triumphed

00:43:04.070 --> 00:43:07.010
over great obstacles. So I thought, okay, I want

00:43:07.010 --> 00:43:09.289
to talk about these women and I want them to

00:43:09.289 --> 00:43:11.610
share their stories. And I think I wanted to

00:43:11.610 --> 00:43:15.070
present something a bit more authentic. And I

00:43:15.070 --> 00:43:17.889
just thought it was lacking. And that's why it

00:43:17.889 --> 00:43:20.630
went there. But when you started this as a hobby,

00:43:20.750 --> 00:43:22.630
right? Yeah. And it still is a hobby. Yeah, it

00:43:22.630 --> 00:43:27.179
still is. to you I just can't imagine how good

00:43:27.179 --> 00:43:29.579
you are with marketing you got your act together

00:43:29.579 --> 00:43:32.940
you got a great set you know Kai what marketing

00:43:32.940 --> 00:43:36.500
you know it's just like oh Adobe Audition okay

00:43:36.500 --> 00:43:45.480
how do you increase volume but it reminds me

00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:49.420
of my early days you know in radio when when

00:43:49.420 --> 00:43:51.500
we had to do our own production, there were no

00:43:51.500 --> 00:43:54.639
producers before. So it brought me back maybe

00:43:54.639 --> 00:43:57.519
30 years to my first time in radio doing my own

00:43:57.519 --> 00:44:00.840
produced work for love songs. And I'm just happy

00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:03.420
now with AI. A lot of things are not easy. Oh,

00:44:03.420 --> 00:44:06.719
hell yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But of course, I

00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:08.980
still go through the old fashioned way to remove

00:44:08.980 --> 00:44:11.119
clicks. You know, I can even go into a waveform

00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:13.679
and just extract that click. Yeah, yeah. I mean,

00:44:13.699 --> 00:44:16.699
yeah, sure. You know, but I mean, sure. I mean,

00:44:16.760 --> 00:44:21.789
okay. You know, I never have been on radio, right?

00:44:21.829 --> 00:44:24.210
Always been on stage. And I'm just the guy with

00:44:24.210 --> 00:44:26.250
a microphone doing my shows. But you're great

00:44:26.250 --> 00:44:28.829
at it. Well, at 50 years, well, not 50 years

00:44:28.829 --> 00:44:34.389
old. Was I 50 then? Okay, 52, 53. When I left

00:44:34.389 --> 00:44:39.429
that last show and I had this itch that just

00:44:39.429 --> 00:44:42.349
needed a scratch because I really enjoyed it

00:44:42.349 --> 00:44:49.119
so much doing a podcast. And, well. This is what

00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:53.360
you see here. Prior to us even starting, was

00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:57.079
two years of waiting and planning and it fell

00:44:57.079 --> 00:44:59.900
on my lap. Because when we bought this house

00:44:59.900 --> 00:45:04.480
and I never thought of it, my wife, while we

00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:10.059
were having the design chats with our IDs, said,

00:45:10.119 --> 00:45:13.199
okay, so where can I build a studio? And I looked

00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:16.679
at her, what? I said, yeah, you want a studio,

00:45:16.739 --> 00:45:20.489
right? Because I teach as well. So it's this

00:45:20.489 --> 00:45:24.730
purpose as well. I said, I mean, yeah, you know,

00:45:24.750 --> 00:45:27.030
I would love to have a studio. Then, okay, we

00:45:27.030 --> 00:45:31.309
build a studio. And this space you see here was

00:45:31.309 --> 00:45:35.530
empty space. So really it was built, purpose

00:45:35.530 --> 00:45:39.030
built. And I said, okay, there's no turning back

00:45:39.030 --> 00:45:43.070
now. So we built the space and then. I didn't

00:45:43.070 --> 00:45:46.269
know anything about audio engineering. I didn't

00:45:46.269 --> 00:45:49.449
know anything about video editing. I didn't know

00:45:49.449 --> 00:45:52.190
anything about design. And I learned it all off

00:45:52.190 --> 00:45:56.130
YouTube. Yeah, I mean, and it's painful and it

00:45:56.130 --> 00:45:59.250
can be long. No, but I kind of enjoyed it. But

00:45:59.250 --> 00:46:01.309
I'm sure there were some like glitches along

00:46:01.309 --> 00:46:03.269
the way. Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. When you

00:46:03.269 --> 00:46:07.469
lose something or recording. And of course, along

00:46:07.469 --> 00:46:10.989
with that, what's the branding going to be like,

00:46:11.050 --> 00:46:16.900
you know? what's your vertical? And I realized

00:46:16.900 --> 00:46:20.059
that I'm the kind of guy that just can't stick

00:46:20.059 --> 00:46:24.039
to one. You know what I mean? Everybody seems

00:46:24.039 --> 00:46:27.739
like, okay, let's do the Hantu stories. No, those

00:46:27.739 --> 00:46:29.719
are very popular. They were very popular during

00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:31.119
COVID. Which is why I don't want to do it. Yeah,

00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:32.760
and people are still doing it. Yeah, I don't

00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:34.699
like to do the Hantu stories because in Asia,

00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:36.000
everyone talks about Hantu. That's how we started

00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:39.460
the UFO series. Are there UFO stories in Singapore?

00:46:40.019 --> 00:46:43.550
Oh, yeah. You'd be shocked, man. I think I'll

00:46:43.550 --> 00:46:45.750
see a ghost before UFO. I don't even know where's

00:46:45.750 --> 00:46:49.070
the hotspot in Singapore for UFO sightings. Did

00:46:49.070 --> 00:46:52.730
you do a series on this? I have one episode at

00:46:52.730 --> 00:46:55.610
least every season. We're shooting this in a

00:46:55.610 --> 00:46:58.530
couple of weeks. And we bring the news about

00:46:58.530 --> 00:47:01.289
what's been going on worldwide about the UFO

00:47:01.289 --> 00:47:04.969
phenomenon, which is now called UAPs now. It's

00:47:04.969 --> 00:47:09.559
in US Congress. What does UAP stand for? the

00:47:09.559 --> 00:47:12.599
two things it stands for unidentified aerial

00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:16.139
phenomenon phenomena or unidentified anomalous

00:47:16.139 --> 00:47:19.059
phenomena because it's not just not aerial they're

00:47:19.059 --> 00:47:22.619
also underwater oh yeah the old name is called

00:47:22.619 --> 00:47:29.599
USO unidentified submerged object and now Congress

00:47:29.599 --> 00:47:32.699
the US Congress have admitted that they've known

00:47:32.699 --> 00:47:36.780
of five underground undersea bases alien bases

00:47:37.619 --> 00:47:40.179
Oh, sorry. I didn't know about that. I just know

00:47:40.179 --> 00:47:42.659
about the Russian -trained beluga whale, right?

00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:49.179
That's a huge social media sensation. Oh, yeah,

00:47:49.239 --> 00:47:53.780
yeah. Kavya, right. Yeah, so we had to decide

00:47:53.780 --> 00:47:56.860
what we're going to do. Then I have this passion

00:47:56.860 --> 00:48:00.539
for entertainers, for musicians, and for any

00:48:00.539 --> 00:48:03.920
enabler for the music and nightlife industry

00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:07.050
in Singapore. And then we decided let's do a

00:48:07.050 --> 00:48:09.650
tribute show too. Because so many things I want

00:48:09.650 --> 00:48:11.650
to do. No, I quite like that. I think recently

00:48:11.650 --> 00:48:13.670
you had that concert, Don't Write Us Off. And

00:48:13.670 --> 00:48:15.650
I think that was so nice. You know, it's just

00:48:15.650 --> 00:48:17.949
like, it just captures what I think a lot of

00:48:17.949 --> 00:48:21.309
people feel in Singapore and this aging society.

00:48:21.610 --> 00:48:24.429
Don't write us off. It's always about the youngsters.

00:48:24.590 --> 00:48:26.269
Don't worry, we'll take care of you. We'll get

00:48:26.269 --> 00:48:29.190
your career going. We'll give you a nice HDB

00:48:29.190 --> 00:48:33.289
flat. But those who are 55, 60 and, you know,

00:48:33.289 --> 00:48:36.699
just, Many of them are lost, you know, and I've

00:48:36.699 --> 00:48:40.119
been to a few support groups recently. And I

00:48:40.119 --> 00:48:42.099
think there's like one is called the caring chapter

00:48:42.099 --> 00:48:45.320
or something like that. And I've spoken to some,

00:48:45.400 --> 00:48:49.440
especially men, I feel they have a hard time

00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:53.599
actually trying to navigate this space that they're

00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:57.099
in where they're not, then they don't have a

00:48:57.099 --> 00:48:59.340
job and they don't know what they're going to

00:48:59.340 --> 00:49:01.739
do next. And they know that they have a good

00:49:01.739 --> 00:49:06.090
20 years in this. in this lifetime. A couple

00:49:06.090 --> 00:49:07.949
more laps around the sun still. And they still

00:49:07.949 --> 00:49:10.190
don't know what they want to do. Or they just

00:49:10.190 --> 00:49:11.889
feel no one's giving them a job. Look at me,

00:49:11.969 --> 00:49:14.989
man. I wanted to... No, you got your act together.

00:49:15.210 --> 00:49:17.429
No, you got to go... Oh, sorry. It's called The

00:49:17.429 --> 00:49:20.050
Courage Chapter. I've gone for two of their sessions

00:49:20.050 --> 00:49:23.309
and I feel very terrible. I don't know why I

00:49:23.309 --> 00:49:26.769
feel that men take it worse. I guess maybe they

00:49:26.769 --> 00:49:29.070
feel very... Funny you should mention that now

00:49:29.070 --> 00:49:32.860
because my next question was is... was going

00:49:32.860 --> 00:49:36.739
to be yeah women talking sexist this one how

00:49:36.739 --> 00:49:40.780
about men I mean don't the men get it too I mean

00:49:40.780 --> 00:49:44.320
men talking too I mean like you just said as

00:49:44.320 --> 00:49:46.500
you just said look at these guys you know and

00:49:46.500 --> 00:49:49.239
we've got pride you know when you when people

00:49:49.239 --> 00:49:51.059
think that all the young people will take care

00:49:51.059 --> 00:49:53.250
of you What makes you think we want you to take

00:49:53.250 --> 00:49:55.829
care of us? We still want to find that independence,

00:49:55.929 --> 00:49:59.190
the need to still be able to be economically

00:49:59.190 --> 00:50:03.449
viable. You know what I mean? And be able to

00:50:03.449 --> 00:50:07.369
still grow ourselves from the craft that we got

00:50:07.369 --> 00:50:10.190
good at doing. Yeah, but you know, jobs are finite

00:50:10.190 --> 00:50:12.750
in Singapore, right? So I can see how the priority

00:50:12.750 --> 00:50:15.230
may want to go to the younger person because

00:50:15.230 --> 00:50:17.849
they have to build up their livelihoods and their

00:50:17.849 --> 00:50:21.599
families. Well, I mean, we're all... Where the

00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:23.420
economy is concerned and where commercialism

00:50:23.420 --> 00:50:25.239
is concerned, everyone will be targeting the

00:50:25.239 --> 00:50:27.980
younger audience for sure. You can't change that.

00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:30.920
When we were younger, it was the same for us.

00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:34.300
But this is what I feel. I think, you know, I

00:50:34.300 --> 00:50:37.000
mean, come on, people. I mean, the older we get,

00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:40.179
right, find something. Really go to do that thing

00:50:40.179 --> 00:50:42.940
you love and get really good at it because we

00:50:42.940 --> 00:50:45.139
still can. You know, and keep yourself active.

00:50:45.400 --> 00:50:47.280
Yeah, because at that event, like Don't Write

00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:49.420
Us Off, I remember you brought up Larry Lai and

00:50:49.420 --> 00:50:51.519
he must be in like close to like in his 90s.

00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:53.940
85. 85. I thought he was like, okay, I thought

00:50:53.940 --> 00:50:55.840
he was 90 years old. And I'm just thinking, oh

00:50:55.840 --> 00:50:59.219
my goodness, from like 50, mid 50s to 90, like

00:50:59.219 --> 00:51:02.059
what are people doing? Yeah, yeah. And he's still

00:51:02.059 --> 00:51:04.920
sharp as hell, you know. The man's brain is like

00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:08.289
an axe. It's still so sharp. He didn't slow down

00:51:08.289 --> 00:51:10.829
up here. I just know you got emotional at that

00:51:10.829 --> 00:51:15.170
event because of Larry Lai. But I was also thinking,

00:51:15.190 --> 00:51:17.510
how about this cohort of people, right? What

00:51:17.510 --> 00:51:19.909
are they doing? And when I attended the Courage

00:51:19.909 --> 00:51:22.210
chapter and I just saw these men talk about how

00:51:22.210 --> 00:51:24.469
they have not been successful trying to secure

00:51:24.469 --> 00:51:27.369
even part -time work, I just feel really terrible.

00:51:28.230 --> 00:51:30.849
It's not like just because you're like 60, you

00:51:30.849 --> 00:51:33.190
have to become a security guard, right? And I

00:51:33.190 --> 00:51:35.130
think it's hard for them to swallow, particularly

00:51:35.130 --> 00:51:37.420
if they help very senior people. and then they

00:51:37.420 --> 00:51:40.780
move on to be a security guard. It's just hard

00:51:40.780 --> 00:51:44.699
for them to accept that. But for women, I'm actually

00:51:44.699 --> 00:51:49.940
fine. I mean, women are more resilient than we

00:51:49.940 --> 00:51:53.760
guys. I admit to that. I admit to it. My wife

00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:57.360
is five, ten times stronger than me. I mean,

00:51:57.360 --> 00:51:59.900
she's an ace, man. She's doing so much. She's

00:51:59.900 --> 00:52:03.940
a savvy businesswoman. She's a mover shaker.

00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:07.730
She is. She's really bright. I'm proud of her.

00:52:07.750 --> 00:52:09.650
I'm proud to have her as my wife. I'm saying

00:52:09.650 --> 00:52:15.630
it. But again, back to the point. So women, women

00:52:15.630 --> 00:52:18.110
talking, are you going to do something for men?

00:52:18.619 --> 00:52:22.059
Well, I did put on a male caregiver, Elvin Tan,

00:52:22.360 --> 00:52:25.360
and he talked about... Oh, Elvin. Yeah, he actually

00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:28.079
single -handedly cares for his mother who has

00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:30.840
dementia. And I think it's amazing. And he talked

00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:34.260
about the sacrifices that he's made and how he

00:52:34.260 --> 00:52:37.039
views caregiving. He sees it as joy, as duty,

00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:40.380
and he derives joy out of the duty, even though

00:52:40.380 --> 00:52:43.400
it comes with sacrifices. So I quite like that.

00:52:43.519 --> 00:52:46.760
But at this point, I want to focus on women because

00:52:46.760 --> 00:52:50.840
really, I just... I just, okay, I don't want

00:52:50.840 --> 00:52:55.880
to come across as like, Yes. I just don't seem

00:52:55.880 --> 00:52:58.340
to get men very well. I mean, like, listen, my

00:52:58.340 --> 00:53:00.400
marriage didn't work out and I find it very hard

00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:02.920
to date. I was like, Hello, you can always invite

00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:07.150
me on your show. It just all depends on your

00:53:07.150 --> 00:53:10.170
topic, right? Yeah, it's like, you know. I can

00:53:10.170 --> 00:53:11.889
get in touch with my female side. Don't worry

00:53:11.889 --> 00:53:14.929
about it. And I also don't think men are willing

00:53:14.929 --> 00:53:17.849
to share so much. Like, you know, like, I don't

00:53:17.849 --> 00:53:20.889
think men will go down all the way to talk about

00:53:20.889 --> 00:53:25.010
all these, like, personal issues that they have

00:53:25.010 --> 00:53:26.809
to overcome. I feel so damn insulted, man. Damn

00:53:26.809 --> 00:53:30.309
it. I mean, would you? Chris, would you want

00:53:30.309 --> 00:53:34.300
to do that? Ask away. I am here. Bring your show

00:53:34.300 --> 00:53:39.659
on my show, Ask Away. Would you, okay. Well,

00:53:39.780 --> 00:53:42.360
I was thinking, well, we had a cancer series

00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:45.260
because it was breast cancer. Okay. I mean, be

00:53:45.260 --> 00:53:51.219
fair, man. Okay. But for you, I can just ask

00:53:51.219 --> 00:53:54.519
you this. Sure, sure. Do you feel a lot of angst

00:53:54.519 --> 00:53:59.980
and maybe, okay, regret or? that you never had

00:53:59.980 --> 00:54:03.800
an opportunity to fulfill your wish to be a radio

00:54:03.800 --> 00:54:06.000
team? All the time. And how have you taken it

00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:08.940
out? And how have you exercised it? I have never

00:54:08.940 --> 00:54:11.820
exercised it. I will say this again, and I've

00:54:11.820 --> 00:54:14.639
said it before quite openly. I will take this

00:54:14.639 --> 00:54:18.219
to my grave. It will be a regret that I will

00:54:18.219 --> 00:54:23.280
live until I'm, I said nine feet, I've decorated

00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:25.440
six feet, so look at my size, it has to be nine

00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:29.449
feet. Nine feet underground. And so to actually

00:54:29.449 --> 00:54:33.570
work out the loss that you feel, you continue

00:54:33.570 --> 00:54:36.449
to be an emcee. And maybe this is the reason

00:54:36.449 --> 00:54:39.809
why you became a podcaster. This is the reason

00:54:39.809 --> 00:54:43.449
why I became a podcaster. And do you always feel

00:54:43.449 --> 00:54:45.690
as though every podcast you do, you feel you

00:54:45.690 --> 00:54:47.829
need the validation from people who are former

00:54:47.829 --> 00:54:51.090
radio DJs? How do you see us? Actually, that's

00:54:51.090 --> 00:54:52.650
an interesting question. You know, let me just.

00:54:53.349 --> 00:54:55.550
feel about it not think about that yeah feel

00:54:55.550 --> 00:54:57.690
you gotta feel actually you're right I would

00:54:57.690 --> 00:55:01.349
say I would dare say 70 % of the time yeah I

00:55:01.349 --> 00:55:06.909
don't ask directly but yeah it is kind of a validation

00:55:06.909 --> 00:55:09.949
for me but you want that validation I want the

00:55:09.949 --> 00:55:13.750
validation yes I do and you know you want probably

00:55:13.750 --> 00:55:16.690
the radio station was a Mediacorp radio station.

00:55:16.809 --> 00:55:19.409
So you want even validation from Mediacorp. I've,

00:55:19.489 --> 00:55:22.250
I've, I've come to a point where I've accepted

00:55:22.250 --> 00:55:24.690
the fact that for some funny, strange reason,

00:55:24.849 --> 00:55:28.550
whatever it could be, they didn't call me back,

00:55:28.610 --> 00:55:32.170
you know, it's fine, you know, and, and I've,

00:55:32.170 --> 00:55:36.389
I think I've come to a point where I go, it's

00:55:36.389 --> 00:55:39.409
got to be deeper than, than, than we don't just,

00:55:39.469 --> 00:55:41.989
you know, we just want to get back to people

00:55:41.989 --> 00:55:44.800
we know. You know, people that we're used to,

00:55:44.840 --> 00:55:47.900
that we don't need any screw up. So you're too

00:55:47.900 --> 00:55:51.579
new. You know, that could be one reason for me

00:55:51.579 --> 00:55:54.019
not to be put on. So I've come to a point where,

00:55:54.119 --> 00:55:56.559
okay, fine, you need me, call me. You know, I'm

00:55:56.559 --> 00:56:02.420
already 55. Do I really think that people will

00:56:02.420 --> 00:56:05.679
want me at this stage of my life? Maybe not.

00:56:06.159 --> 00:56:11.730
So what do I do? I focus here. Build this. But

00:56:11.730 --> 00:56:13.309
you're hurt that they haven't called you back.

00:56:13.489 --> 00:56:16.670
Of course, I'm only human. I would say I was

00:56:16.670 --> 00:56:20.230
hurt. I was hurt, but not very hurt. I was hurt,

00:56:20.309 --> 00:56:23.889
hurt, you know, at that time, at that point.

00:56:23.909 --> 00:56:26.329
Today, there will always be this little tinge

00:56:26.329 --> 00:56:29.250
of hurt that's left behind because I've not got

00:56:29.250 --> 00:56:32.949
it. You know something, Suzanne? Let's put it

00:56:32.949 --> 00:56:37.730
this way. If I ever get a chance to get on air,

00:56:38.300 --> 00:56:44.039
on my own show, for one shift, four hours, and

00:56:44.039 --> 00:56:47.579
I don't go back and do it anymore, I would have

00:56:47.579 --> 00:56:51.980
a smile on my face. I would have felt fulfilled.

00:56:52.760 --> 00:56:57.769
I would have felt that at least I got that. Yeah,

00:56:57.809 --> 00:57:01.110
but Chris, maybe they can feel it and they know

00:57:01.110 --> 00:57:03.489
it and maybe they feel that you're not a fit.

00:57:03.690 --> 00:57:07.030
It could be anything. I don't see why I cannot

00:57:07.030 --> 00:57:10.550
be a fit because after so many years of doing

00:57:10.550 --> 00:57:16.289
so many different things, live shows, I mean

00:57:16.289 --> 00:57:19.869
this, being able to be so pliable and flexible

00:57:19.869 --> 00:57:22.829
and adaptable to so many situations where programs

00:57:22.829 --> 00:57:27.719
and shows are concerned. And with my experience,

00:57:27.980 --> 00:57:32.219
I can fit anywhere. That's to answer what you

00:57:32.219 --> 00:57:35.219
said. You know, I am a fit. I can be a fit. And

00:57:35.219 --> 00:57:38.440
you give me a mic. I'm a fit. But OK, there could

00:57:38.440 --> 00:57:43.099
be also another reason. They're just slow. They're

00:57:43.099 --> 00:57:47.000
slow. You're not the only one to use that reason.

00:57:47.699 --> 00:57:51.360
They're slow. Someone said, oh, maybe some people

00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:55.079
just don't know how to reject others. I'm crying

00:57:55.079 --> 00:57:56.940
out loud. All you have to do is say, sorry, Chris,

00:57:57.019 --> 00:58:00.519
not now. You know, not this time. I'm fine. I'll

00:58:00.519 --> 00:58:03.320
be fine with that. Just drop a note and say,

00:58:03.400 --> 00:58:04.940
you know, Chris, maybe not this time, but we

00:58:04.940 --> 00:58:08.590
will keep you in mind. That's it. Done. I'm good.

00:58:08.769 --> 00:58:10.849
Yeah, well, I can just say that in the government,

00:58:10.949 --> 00:58:13.170
we always respond. We have a three -day turnaround

00:58:13.170 --> 00:58:15.650
to respond. There you go. I just want to say

00:58:15.650 --> 00:58:17.909
that, you know, at least the Singapore government

00:58:17.909 --> 00:58:22.869
got their act together. In terms of responding.

00:58:22.949 --> 00:58:26.369
I hear you. In terms of responding to public

00:58:26.369 --> 00:58:28.650
query. I will not say any more than that, but

00:58:28.650 --> 00:58:34.389
y 'all can say, Suzanne, I hear you. Okay. I

00:58:34.389 --> 00:58:39.619
mean, wow. 11 years, really. You can see it coming

00:58:39.619 --> 00:58:42.820
out, right? No, but it's drilled in us that we

00:58:42.820 --> 00:58:46.480
do have to respond. And everyone knows that there

00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:48.739
should be a reasonable time when you must get

00:58:48.739 --> 00:58:50.380
back to somebody. So you see, not all men...

00:58:50.380 --> 00:58:56.460
Have I answered you in a fashion that... perhaps

00:58:56.460 --> 00:58:59.539
you would accept that guys can get in touch with

00:58:59.539 --> 00:59:01.159
their softer selves and talk about it? Well,

00:59:01.199 --> 00:59:02.940
I was thinking when you said like fit, I'm a

00:59:02.940 --> 00:59:04.679
fit, you know, like most girls would just say,

00:59:04.719 --> 00:59:08.519
maybe I'm not a fit, you know? Let's say for

00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:11.840
example, if a girl or a lady would say something

00:59:11.840 --> 00:59:15.139
like that, and I hear it, I would just say, listen,

00:59:15.280 --> 00:59:20.099
I think anyone can be a fit if they just work

00:59:20.099 --> 00:59:22.639
hard at being a fit. It's not going to be a problem.

00:59:22.699 --> 00:59:26.139
And don't go like defeatist and stuff. I'm not

00:59:26.139 --> 00:59:28.539
saying that, look, listen, you can ask me some

00:59:28.539 --> 00:59:30.300
stuff and if I feel like I really can't do it,

00:59:30.340 --> 00:59:33.880
I'll say I can't do it. This is not about being

00:59:33.880 --> 00:59:35.820
male or female. It's not a gender bias thing.

00:59:35.920 --> 00:59:41.179
It's about, it's a characteristic and my personality.

00:59:41.780 --> 00:59:44.099
Also, I don't think a woman will hold on to this

00:59:44.099 --> 00:59:46.300
dream for so long. Do you think so? I think women

00:59:46.300 --> 00:59:48.900
are just so much more practical. No, I know some,

00:59:48.920 --> 00:59:51.900
I have some female friends who still hold on

00:59:51.900 --> 00:59:54.869
to. quite a number of things that they've never

00:59:54.869 --> 00:59:58.030
let go. I think it's a human thing. It's not

00:59:58.030 --> 01:00:01.309
about gender again. It's not about being male

01:00:01.309 --> 01:00:03.090
or female. I just feel as though you've become

01:00:03.090 --> 01:00:06.289
this little Chris when you talk about this missed

01:00:06.289 --> 01:00:08.670
opportunity to get back on radio. I am little

01:00:08.670 --> 01:00:10.869
Chris anytime because I'm still a Toys R Us kid.

01:00:11.769 --> 01:00:14.170
It just feels like it becomes like little Chris,

01:00:14.309 --> 01:00:16.269
you know. But I don't see this in women. They

01:00:16.269 --> 01:00:19.349
don't become little again. They talk about...

01:00:19.900 --> 01:00:22.500
Are you kidding me? Yeah, I just don't. Why are

01:00:22.500 --> 01:00:24.059
women always talking to me different? They're

01:00:24.059 --> 01:00:25.420
talking to me like little girls all the time.

01:00:25.460 --> 01:00:27.659
Maybe because they want you to protect them.

01:00:27.719 --> 01:00:30.059
The dynamics of male and female comes through.

01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:32.079
So it's not about a gender thing. It's a human

01:00:32.079 --> 01:00:34.639
thing. Yeah, okay. It's a human thing. But my

01:00:34.639 --> 01:00:37.519
podcast is specifically about what they have

01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:42.079
managed to overcome. So it's usually about health

01:00:42.079 --> 01:00:46.840
concern, personal... that they had to undergo

01:00:46.840 --> 01:00:51.260
or maybe a personal or a family dynamic that

01:00:51.260 --> 01:00:52.199
they had to overcome. What I'm trying to do is

01:00:52.199 --> 01:00:54.739
to convince you that, hey, look, sometimes you

01:00:54.739 --> 01:00:56.699
should bring some men into the picture too. I'm

01:00:56.699 --> 01:00:59.300
still not convinced. I just don't want to. Just

01:00:59.300 --> 01:01:02.800
imagine if I had like, I was just thinking back

01:01:02.800 --> 01:01:04.679
to what I said, like I was doing a cancer series

01:01:04.679 --> 01:01:06.079
and I was just thinking, should I invite men?

01:01:06.219 --> 01:01:08.059
But of course, I want to talk about prostate

01:01:08.059 --> 01:01:10.099
cancer, right? Can you imagine how uncomfortable

01:01:10.099 --> 01:01:12.480
that podcast is going to be? Why would it be

01:01:12.480 --> 01:01:14.440
uncomfortable? Prostate cancer. Why would it

01:01:14.440 --> 01:01:16.380
be uncomfortable? comfortable i've done i've

01:01:16.380 --> 01:01:19.860
done i i mean i i've been involved not on a personal

01:01:19.860 --> 01:01:22.900
level but you know in organ organizational level

01:01:22.900 --> 01:01:27.579
uh where breast cancer is concerned i have even

01:01:27.579 --> 01:01:30.760
typed out stuff you know to help my wife out

01:01:30.760 --> 01:01:36.579
on mother's milk and his wonders yeah annotated

01:01:36.579 --> 01:01:39.659
the whole darn thing and i am an advocate for

01:01:39.659 --> 01:01:45.119
for mother's milk i even tell expectant mothers

01:01:45.119 --> 01:01:48.079
about whatever you do just don't be stubborn

01:01:48.079 --> 01:01:51.059
and not and lactate and thinking lactation is

01:01:51.059 --> 01:01:54.340
easy and stuff like that this is when the messenger

01:01:54.340 --> 01:01:57.179
becomes the issue right are you the right person

01:01:57.179 --> 01:01:59.920
to to send that message but don't you think that

01:01:59.920 --> 01:02:03.119
having a guy like me come on and talk to prospective

01:02:03.119 --> 01:02:06.679
fathers that this is how you should support your

01:02:06.679 --> 01:02:11.280
wife when she's trying to breastfeed okay yeah

01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:15.809
that works out there you go I've done that. Well,

01:02:15.889 --> 01:02:20.519
yeah, but... You see what I mean? It's not like

01:02:20.519 --> 01:02:22.940
it can take up an entire 30 minutes in my podcast.

01:02:23.099 --> 01:02:25.559
Like you can do a public service announcement.

01:02:25.699 --> 01:02:27.639
Yeah, okay. Of course you can take up 30 minutes

01:02:27.639 --> 01:02:29.920
in your podcast. No, no, no. Of course you can.

01:02:30.139 --> 01:02:32.420
Ask AI to help you out in drafting your questions.

01:02:32.780 --> 01:02:34.059
I just think it would be so boring. Like, you

01:02:34.059 --> 01:02:35.840
know, it would be very pro -woman. Like, yeah,

01:02:35.860 --> 01:02:37.940
you know, make sure that, you know, she feeds

01:02:37.940 --> 01:02:40.199
the child breast milk. Breast milk is good. Blah,

01:02:40.199 --> 01:02:42.239
blah, blah, blah. It gets a bit preachy. It gets

01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:44.880
preachy. I know it gets preachy like as if I'm

01:02:44.880 --> 01:02:46.880
mansplaining. Yeah, it's like, you know. How

01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:49.260
can I be mansplaining? when it comes to a women's

01:02:49.260 --> 01:02:53.500
thing. Okay, this is what I just want to avoid

01:02:53.500 --> 01:02:56.179
because we're in an argument right now, right?

01:02:56.280 --> 01:02:58.440
Like you're not backing down. I'm not arguing.

01:02:58.460 --> 01:03:01.179
If you listen to my podcast, we're not having

01:03:01.179 --> 01:03:03.099
this kind of conversation where you're trying

01:03:03.099 --> 01:03:05.559
to push a point to me. It will never happen.

01:03:05.619 --> 01:03:09.000
We will explore that emotion and then we'll move

01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:11.760
on. Okay, women talking that you know you couldn't.

01:03:11.860 --> 01:03:17.219
Women talking, the topics you talk about. Are

01:03:17.219 --> 01:03:19.760
there things there you could never talk about

01:03:19.760 --> 01:03:23.179
in your former role in the civil service? Do

01:03:23.179 --> 01:03:26.400
you talk about these things on your show? Well,

01:03:26.420 --> 01:03:29.260
I think in the civil service, I don't talk, right?

01:03:29.320 --> 01:03:34.380
My opinion doesn't matter. But how does it feel

01:03:34.380 --> 01:03:36.239
like to you? I mean, now that you have this opportunity

01:03:36.239 --> 01:03:40.079
again to talk about things that you don't talk

01:03:40.079 --> 01:03:42.719
in the civil service, and now that you've been

01:03:42.719 --> 01:03:47.469
doing it, how does it feel for you? Well, I enjoy

01:03:47.469 --> 01:03:51.150
it. I just enjoy it. I just never had a chance

01:03:51.150 --> 01:03:55.230
to express myself and now I have that opportunity.

01:03:55.349 --> 01:03:57.510
But I think what's more important that if you

01:03:57.510 --> 01:04:00.369
look at my guest lineup, the people I kind of

01:04:00.369 --> 01:04:04.659
know and I've never been... being in touch with

01:04:04.659 --> 01:04:07.219
them because I've been so busy with my job. So

01:04:07.219 --> 01:04:10.860
it's been great to actually reach out and for

01:04:10.860 --> 01:04:14.260
them to share what they've gone through. Sometimes

01:04:14.260 --> 01:04:16.380
we have a little cry. Sometimes we just laugh

01:04:16.380 --> 01:04:19.179
hysterically. You know, it's been just great.

01:04:19.420 --> 01:04:21.400
How do you approach the machinations for your,

01:04:21.519 --> 01:04:24.320
for example, your recording? You mentioned Adobe

01:04:24.320 --> 01:04:28.679
Audition, the editing, the planning, your schedule,

01:04:28.820 --> 01:04:31.920
your production schedule for your podcast. Oh,

01:04:31.980 --> 01:04:35.400
I can't say that. It'll make me look so, so lame

01:04:35.400 --> 01:04:39.360
compared to you. No, please. I just can't. Do

01:04:39.360 --> 01:04:41.739
you want me to tell you how? Yeah, I mean, from

01:04:41.739 --> 01:04:45.239
one podcaster to another. Okay. I just actually

01:04:45.239 --> 01:04:48.539
started. Okay. When I started in radio, we were

01:04:48.539 --> 01:04:50.920
also very basic. You know, I was, I think I worked

01:04:50.920 --> 01:04:53.500
on the first generation for Pro Tools. And then

01:04:53.500 --> 01:04:55.500
later on in different radio stations, they had

01:04:55.500 --> 01:04:57.820
different type of software. And it was very basic.

01:04:57.880 --> 01:05:01.739
And I have to say my. my year for sound was developed

01:05:01.739 --> 01:05:04.159
right because you know you listen to every click

01:05:04.159 --> 01:05:07.400
and everything and it's actually me going in

01:05:07.400 --> 01:05:12.400
and trimming the actual WAV file. And then later

01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:14.940
on when I was with Chris, that's when I saw that

01:05:14.940 --> 01:05:17.400
a lot of production tools have kind of gone more

01:05:17.400 --> 01:05:20.400
sophisticated. And this time around, I realized

01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:23.340
that AI has really changed a lot of the functional

01:05:23.340 --> 01:05:27.960
capabilities many of these softwares have. And

01:05:27.960 --> 01:05:31.280
what I've done is I've gone in to find out some

01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:33.159
of, I played around with it actually, and I quite

01:05:33.159 --> 01:05:36.420
enjoy it. But the actual setup for the recording,

01:05:36.539 --> 01:05:38.340
actually, I wanted to do digital microphones

01:05:38.340 --> 01:05:40.699
like what you have. But I realized because I

01:05:40.699 --> 01:05:43.400
didn't have a studio, I had to use dynamic mics.

01:05:43.559 --> 01:05:48.360
And I actually wanted the warmth feeling of radio.

01:05:48.460 --> 01:05:51.340
And they use dynamic mics before. This is before

01:05:51.340 --> 01:05:54.099
digital. So my recordings are in dynamic mics.

01:05:54.179 --> 01:05:56.460
And it makes it easy. It means that it's not

01:05:56.460 --> 01:05:58.880
so sensitive to sound. And I can set up anywhere,

01:05:59.079 --> 01:06:01.699
which is what I want to do. Now, I hate to bring

01:06:01.699 --> 01:06:05.039
in the gender issue again. For women, sometimes

01:06:05.039 --> 01:06:08.639
they like to be comfortable. And they don't want

01:06:08.639 --> 01:06:10.860
to be filmed or photographed as well, particularly

01:06:10.860 --> 01:06:12.820
if they're talking about very personal things,

01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:15.579
personal health, feminine issues and all that.

01:06:15.900 --> 01:06:19.659
So I usually just find a place that's cozy, quiet.

01:06:20.519 --> 01:06:23.360
I arrange to meet them. We have long chats. And

01:06:23.360 --> 01:06:26.519
if they want to ask me personal questions, professional

01:06:26.519 --> 01:06:29.340
questions, I share as well. Because when you

01:06:29.340 --> 01:06:32.099
engage with women on a very deep level, I don't

01:06:32.099 --> 01:06:33.920
want to appear one -sided. So I do a lot of prep

01:06:33.920 --> 01:06:37.360
work before. And then if they're okay, whichever

01:06:37.360 --> 01:06:40.739
venue we agree on, I do the setup. Two dynamic

01:06:40.739 --> 01:06:44.300
mics, an Adobe Audition. I have a mixer board

01:06:44.300 --> 01:06:48.179
and I just set it up. And I do the recording.

01:06:48.199 --> 01:06:50.960
I let the recording run. Actually, the mics you're

01:06:50.960 --> 01:06:52.900
seeing right now, these mics that we're using,

01:06:52.980 --> 01:06:55.159
they're all dynamic. Are they dynamic? They are.

01:06:55.460 --> 01:06:58.780
And when I first, for what you're doing for your

01:06:58.780 --> 01:07:01.820
purpose, right? And especially if you're plugging

01:07:01.820 --> 01:07:04.159
into a mixer board. Yes, into a mixer. Okay.

01:07:04.340 --> 01:07:07.440
These are all dynamic. Okay. I just thought Cher

01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:09.719
was, Cher, it's called Cher, right? Sure, yeah.

01:07:10.699 --> 01:07:14.840
Okay, I know they're like... They're not condensers.

01:07:14.940 --> 01:07:16.199
They're not condensers. They're not condensers.

01:07:16.559 --> 01:07:20.000
They're dynamic. I have actually digital mics

01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:23.719
and I bought them first and I tried them out

01:07:23.719 --> 01:07:25.980
and I didn't quite like it. But when I listen

01:07:25.980 --> 01:07:27.880
to many podcasts, I think they're using digital

01:07:27.880 --> 01:07:32.719
mics. Yeah. Well, yeah. Kai, could you just bring

01:07:32.719 --> 01:07:35.619
over the MV7i for me, please? Yeah, sure. Just

01:07:35.619 --> 01:07:38.199
to share with you, okay? This is a digital mic,

01:07:38.300 --> 01:07:43.840
but it's so pliable. It's right behind you. Yeah.

01:07:43.980 --> 01:07:50.820
Thank you. This is something that could be up

01:07:50.820 --> 01:07:53.780
your alley because this mic, as you can see,

01:07:53.880 --> 01:07:57.219
it's an intelligent mic. It's an interface too.

01:07:57.739 --> 01:07:59.719
So what does that mean? So basically you can

01:07:59.719 --> 01:08:02.719
put two mics, this one mic, you can plug in another

01:08:02.719 --> 01:08:05.960
mic into this mic and your two mics working without

01:08:05.960 --> 01:08:09.619
having a mixer board. Oh. And then after that,

01:08:09.679 --> 01:08:12.440
you can output. an input into your computer.

01:08:12.719 --> 01:08:14.739
So into my Adobe Audition goes through in there.

01:08:14.820 --> 01:08:16.859
Yeah, correct. Directly in. And then I can get

01:08:16.859 --> 01:08:19.500
two mono recordings on the... Yes. Oh, I see.

01:08:19.699 --> 01:08:22.899
Yeah. So this guy works really, really well.

01:08:23.060 --> 01:08:25.100
And for those who get intimidated by microphones,

01:08:25.300 --> 01:08:27.380
right? There's another one called the... Can

01:08:27.380 --> 01:08:29.180
I have the move, please? It's charging right

01:08:29.180 --> 01:08:32.579
behind you. Sure. This is one that you might

01:08:32.579 --> 01:08:34.899
want to be interested in using. For those who

01:08:34.899 --> 01:08:36.300
say they look at microphones and get freaked

01:08:36.300 --> 01:08:39.960
out, for example. Yeah. So we got these Lavaliers.

01:08:40.770 --> 01:08:42.810
they're called the move mic receiver kit too

01:08:42.810 --> 01:08:45.750
oh these I've seen those yeah and you just clip

01:08:45.750 --> 01:08:49.010
on and that's it yeah that's it just clip it

01:08:49.010 --> 01:08:52.430
on And you're done. So I went to Suili. Yeah,

01:08:52.510 --> 01:08:55.130
I went to Suili. And I just told them, really,

01:08:55.229 --> 01:08:57.409
I don't like my digital mics. I don't like how

01:08:57.409 --> 01:08:59.569
it's sounding. So they were the ones who said,

01:08:59.649 --> 01:09:01.869
okay, we have these dynamic mics. But they're

01:09:01.869 --> 01:09:04.649
not very popular. But actually, I think they

01:09:04.649 --> 01:09:07.170
were telling me most musicians prefer dynamic

01:09:07.170 --> 01:09:10.050
mics. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So they said, okay,

01:09:10.170 --> 01:09:14.210
we have these two that's available. Yeah, well,

01:09:14.310 --> 01:09:19.029
you know, I mean, I swear by sure. Sure. Yeah.

01:09:19.149 --> 01:09:22.350
So if you. You want to know the brand of mine?

01:09:22.510 --> 01:09:28.350
Yeah. Fender. Guitar. Guitar. Sold to me by a

01:09:28.350 --> 01:09:32.130
guitarist at CD. I thought so. Fender's guitar.

01:09:32.229 --> 01:09:34.270
He was telling me, no, this is good enough. It's

01:09:34.270 --> 01:09:35.949
good enough. It's good enough. And for you to

01:09:35.949 --> 01:09:37.829
try it out, especially if you're going to actually.

01:09:38.909 --> 01:09:40.949
edit and then it's going to be processed and

01:09:40.949 --> 01:09:42.649
it's going through Adobe Audition, it should

01:09:42.649 --> 01:09:44.670
be good enough. If you decide to change, just

01:09:44.670 --> 01:09:46.890
go to the SureShop online. Okay. It's pronounced

01:09:46.890 --> 01:09:50.350
as Sure, right? S -H -U -R -E. SureShop .com.

01:09:50.670 --> 01:09:53.789
Go there. Use my code. You can get some limited

01:09:53.789 --> 01:09:56.210
merchandise. How much discount? I'm quite an

01:09:56.210 --> 01:09:59.949
auntie these days. No discount. No discount,

01:10:00.029 --> 01:10:02.390
but you got limited merchandise, you know, using

01:10:02.390 --> 01:10:05.850
my code. But I swear by them, really. And all

01:10:05.850 --> 01:10:08.609
this time, we've only been working on on short

01:10:08.609 --> 01:10:10.890
microphones okay but yeah that's what I wanted

01:10:10.890 --> 01:10:14.069
to capture really the warmth of the voice I wasn't

01:10:14.069 --> 01:10:16.449
thinking of video actually but a lot of people

01:10:16.449 --> 01:10:19.029
later on just said it has to go on video but

01:10:19.029 --> 01:10:21.890
I only made that switch because I was speaking

01:10:21.890 --> 01:10:25.279
to someone who was following the podcast, who

01:10:25.279 --> 01:10:27.439
said that he doesn't have a Spotify subscription

01:10:27.439 --> 01:10:30.500
and YouTube is the default place that he would

01:10:30.500 --> 01:10:33.539
go to to listen to the podcast. So I said, okay,

01:10:33.640 --> 01:10:36.439
then it makes sense for me to go to do video

01:10:36.439 --> 01:10:38.819
and YouTube. There is an audience because you

01:10:38.819 --> 01:10:41.359
can't expect everyone to have a Spotify subscription.

01:10:41.800 --> 01:10:44.619
But if I'm not mistaken, even if you don't have

01:10:44.619 --> 01:10:48.239
a subscription, you can always still go to different

01:10:48.239 --> 01:10:52.710
podcast playlists. And nowadays with Spotify,

01:10:52.710 --> 01:10:57.430
you have it on video as well. Yeah. So like us,

01:10:57.449 --> 01:11:01.170
our show, we're on multiple platforms. Most of

01:11:01.170 --> 01:11:03.949
those platforms are audio. The video platforms

01:11:03.949 --> 01:11:06.750
would be YouTube, which is our primary platform

01:11:06.750 --> 01:11:10.369
and Spotify video. So you can, and it's easy

01:11:10.369 --> 01:11:12.609
to do. It's easy to work, easy to upload. But

01:11:12.609 --> 01:11:16.880
I just had, I just completed. a video. I think

01:11:16.880 --> 01:11:18.760
it was like 20 minutes and I tried to upload

01:11:18.760 --> 01:11:21.420
it on Spotify because I think there's a clip

01:11:21.420 --> 01:11:23.699
function, a tab, right? Clip, you can't, you

01:11:23.699 --> 01:11:26.060
can't, you've got to upload a video. Clip is

01:11:26.060 --> 01:11:28.479
clip. Yeah. Clip is a short one. These are the

01:11:28.479 --> 01:11:31.100
short ones. So you have to upload the video instead.

01:11:31.239 --> 01:11:33.500
So yeah. Just go back and have a look. How about

01:11:33.500 --> 01:11:36.420
your thumbnail designs? they're really basic

01:11:36.420 --> 01:11:39.000
they're all on canva i hate to sound so we're

01:11:39.000 --> 01:11:41.479
on canva too unprofessional oh really yeah i

01:11:41.479 --> 01:11:43.520
don't feel so bad everything everything we've

01:11:43.520 --> 01:11:46.930
done uh everything we've done or been doing,

01:11:46.989 --> 01:11:48.850
it's all been on camera. You know how the name

01:11:48.850 --> 01:11:51.090
came about? I didn't even have the name handy.

01:11:51.369 --> 01:11:54.489
It was the person that I interviewed for the

01:11:54.489 --> 01:11:57.489
first time, So Chin. She was like, what's the

01:11:57.489 --> 01:11:59.289
name? Oh, Ong So Chin. Yeah. She said, what's

01:11:59.289 --> 01:12:01.210
the name of your podcast? I said, I really haven't

01:12:01.210 --> 01:12:03.010
thought about it. Then she said, can you just

01:12:03.010 --> 01:12:05.350
call it Women Talking? Because she was watching

01:12:05.350 --> 01:12:08.029
this TV series or Netflix series called Women

01:12:08.029 --> 01:12:10.699
Talking. And I said, okay, I'll just. Oh, this

01:12:10.699 --> 01:12:12.340
is how it happened. Yeah. Because I wasn't going

01:12:12.340 --> 01:12:14.100
to put in a lot of brain cells to come up with

01:12:14.100 --> 01:12:20.359
a name. And then, and she gave me the idea. So

01:12:20.359 --> 01:12:22.819
I said, okay. And it will be her name and my

01:12:22.819 --> 01:12:25.020
name or my name and the guest name that carries

01:12:25.020 --> 01:12:27.020
the show. That's how I see it. Right. Right.

01:12:27.199 --> 01:12:30.079
So, so I said, okay, let's settle. Let's settle

01:12:30.079 --> 01:12:33.600
on women talking. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, just to

01:12:33.600 --> 01:12:36.130
clarify. Yeah. I never wanted to get into the

01:12:36.130 --> 01:12:38.189
argument with you. It wasn't an argument anyway.

01:12:38.210 --> 01:12:40.149
As far as I knew, it was an argument. There's

01:12:40.149 --> 01:12:43.229
no argument, but it's just that it's just very

01:12:43.229 --> 01:12:44.869
different when you talk to the guy because they

01:12:44.869 --> 01:12:48.229
don't, they just want to insist on a point. Okay.

01:12:49.369 --> 01:12:54.729
Okay. All right. Again, I was not trying to get

01:12:54.729 --> 01:12:56.649
into the argument with you. No, I mean, I don't

01:12:56.649 --> 01:12:59.369
see it that way, but you know. Okay, anyways,

01:12:59.630 --> 01:13:01.350
so just to let you know, I mean, these are things

01:13:01.350 --> 01:13:03.409
that you can consider, you know, because it seems

01:13:03.409 --> 01:13:04.970
that you're really going really serious in your

01:13:04.970 --> 01:13:07.770
podcast. So these are things that you can use.

01:13:07.970 --> 01:13:09.329
Well, it's a good thing that you brought it up,

01:13:09.350 --> 01:13:11.069
that whether I'm serious or not, I find that

01:13:11.069 --> 01:13:13.970
it's a lot of work. And I find that the format,

01:13:14.069 --> 01:13:15.909
because it's about women sharing a lot about

01:13:15.909 --> 01:13:18.189
their personal journeys, it can be quite heavy.

01:13:18.310 --> 01:13:20.449
And I find that editing these podcasts can be

01:13:20.449 --> 01:13:24.869
quite draining for me. So, I mean, yeah, I am

01:13:24.869 --> 01:13:29.569
serious into it, but I just, Well, you have managed

01:13:29.569 --> 01:13:32.090
to last the course. So I don't know if I can

01:13:32.090 --> 01:13:34.569
actually sustain it. I'm just concerned about

01:13:34.569 --> 01:13:37.409
that. How long is your duration per episode on

01:13:37.409 --> 01:13:39.930
average? Well, okay. This was also from some

01:13:39.930 --> 01:13:42.010
feedback that I got. It started with long form,

01:13:42.069 --> 01:13:44.250
about 30 minutes. And then a lot of people were

01:13:44.250 --> 01:13:46.609
saying, I listened to it on the MRT, on the bus,

01:13:46.689 --> 01:13:49.770
and my journey is like 10, 15 minutes. So, and

01:13:49.770 --> 01:13:51.789
then it clicked, right? Okay, can we do it like

01:13:51.789 --> 01:13:54.750
at that bite size? So it helps. And if they're

01:13:54.750 --> 01:13:56.789
really interested, they'll come back for episode

01:13:56.789 --> 01:13:59.300
two, which is. another 10 to 15 minutes right

01:13:59.300 --> 01:14:01.819
and so I've broken it down to 10 to 15 minutes

01:14:01.819 --> 01:14:05.520
and sometimes it can be two episodes per interviewee

01:14:05.520 --> 01:14:08.460
or maybe three like my recent one. Right. Where

01:14:08.460 --> 01:14:10.640
we are concerned, you can tell that we are definitely

01:14:10.640 --> 01:14:13.380
long form. And our long form is not half an hour.

01:14:13.600 --> 01:14:16.859
No, it's not. But that's the thing because I

01:14:16.859 --> 01:14:19.699
think maybe your conversations are lighter. My

01:14:19.699 --> 01:14:22.239
mind could be heavier and maybe people just can't

01:14:22.239 --> 01:14:24.920
sustain for 30 minutes. But it's still something

01:14:24.920 --> 01:14:27.279
I'm experimenting and I'm wrestling with and

01:14:27.279 --> 01:14:29.439
I'm open. I mean, the good thing about podcasting

01:14:29.439 --> 01:14:31.420
is you can change, right? Yeah, you can. But

01:14:31.420 --> 01:14:34.359
we are stubborn about this. because first of

01:14:34.359 --> 01:14:38.359
all, we don't want to be a party to having more

01:14:38.359 --> 01:14:43.890
and more people suffering from ADHD. And there's

01:14:43.890 --> 01:14:46.109
always this thing called the playback button.

01:14:46.210 --> 01:14:48.210
You can always pause and come back and play back

01:14:48.210 --> 01:14:51.670
again and continue on, you know. That's all fine.

01:14:51.930 --> 01:14:53.829
I mean, it's going to be there forever. It's

01:14:53.829 --> 01:14:56.270
going to be up there. It's loaded already. So

01:14:56.270 --> 01:14:57.609
if you don't have the time to watch it, watch

01:14:57.609 --> 01:14:59.550
it later. You want to continue, continue later,

01:14:59.750 --> 01:15:03.630
you know. But I think it's an injustice to my

01:15:03.630 --> 01:15:07.789
guests, my guests that I invite on the show and

01:15:07.789 --> 01:15:11.060
just. just because of the production and just

01:15:11.060 --> 01:15:14.239
go 15, 20 minutes. I, I rather to have that person

01:15:14.239 --> 01:15:15.760
who took the trouble to come all the way down

01:15:15.760 --> 01:15:18.159
to the studio and have a damn good conversation,

01:15:18.180 --> 01:15:21.800
you know, rather than just, let's cut this short.

01:15:21.899 --> 01:15:24.520
You know, I, I really don't, don't, I really

01:15:24.520 --> 01:15:27.100
don't think that's very nice. I'd rather really

01:15:27.100 --> 01:15:29.020
find out about the person and really have a nice

01:15:29.020 --> 01:15:31.300
conversation rather than, that's why it's called

01:15:31.300 --> 01:15:33.539
the Chris Hansen conversation rather than just,

01:15:33.579 --> 01:15:36.220
you know, touch and go. And because the audience

01:15:36.220 --> 01:15:38.939
wants it that way. I've got to think about the

01:15:38.939 --> 01:15:41.220
guests too. And sometimes people have got stories

01:15:41.220 --> 01:15:43.720
to tell. They've got so much stories to tell.

01:15:44.300 --> 01:15:48.140
You know, yeah. Anyway, what's your take for

01:15:48.140 --> 01:15:51.279
people balancing successful careers and passion

01:15:51.279 --> 01:15:53.979
projects? What's the best piece of advice you've

01:15:53.979 --> 01:15:57.640
received about protecting that hobby time? I

01:15:57.640 --> 01:15:59.619
think it's about making time because there's

01:15:59.619 --> 01:16:04.250
always an excuse not to do it. It was really

01:16:04.250 --> 01:16:06.569
difficult to get started. Like, you know, what

01:16:06.569 --> 01:16:08.550
I've been sharing with you, what I had to do,

01:16:08.590 --> 01:16:12.689
even the how to get started, the equipment, I

01:16:12.689 --> 01:16:15.250
mean, the guests and, you know, the theme, the

01:16:15.250 --> 01:16:18.270
name, all these sort of things. If I didn't put

01:16:18.270 --> 01:16:20.449
in the effort to get started, it would have never

01:16:20.449 --> 01:16:23.270
happened. But your guests that you invite, they

01:16:23.270 --> 01:16:28.250
got stories to tell too. Yeah. And do you think

01:16:28.250 --> 01:16:31.899
that you have to create a safe environment? I

01:16:31.899 --> 01:16:34.180
do. You know, so that they can feel comfortable.

01:16:34.260 --> 01:16:36.899
Yeah, for women especially, you know, else they

01:16:36.899 --> 01:16:39.460
wouldn't because, I mean, I hate to sound like

01:16:39.460 --> 01:16:42.439
a feminist, but they spend years and maybe generations

01:16:42.439 --> 01:16:46.180
learning to keep quiet, right? Right. So if you

01:16:46.180 --> 01:16:48.659
want them to talk, you have to let them feel

01:16:48.659 --> 01:16:51.560
safe and they have to trust you. That's why I'm

01:16:51.560 --> 01:16:54.359
willing to give more and engage with them more

01:16:54.359 --> 01:16:58.380
before we even... go into recording and they

01:16:58.380 --> 01:17:00.779
can choose not to as well. I mean, like I was

01:17:00.779 --> 01:17:02.659
sharing with you, I was speaking to another person

01:17:02.659 --> 01:17:05.279
who asked me so many questions about my life

01:17:05.279 --> 01:17:07.939
and then they still don't want to come on the

01:17:07.939 --> 01:17:11.439
podcast and it's fine. It's fine. I come prepared

01:17:11.439 --> 01:17:13.239
to let them know that it's never going to be

01:17:13.239 --> 01:17:16.539
one -sided and I don't want it to become transactional

01:17:16.539 --> 01:17:19.960
or make them feel that it's transactional, particularly

01:17:19.960 --> 01:17:21.779
when they're sharing something that's so important

01:17:21.779 --> 01:17:24.359
to them and that their loved ones are going to

01:17:24.359 --> 01:17:29.109
hear about it. Yeah. Yeah. But what do you do?

01:17:29.189 --> 01:17:32.590
I mean, let's just name you, maybe if it's a

01:17:32.590 --> 01:17:36.250
couple of things, maybe one thing that you do

01:17:36.250 --> 01:17:38.369
to make sure that your guest is comfortable.

01:17:38.449 --> 01:17:41.350
I spend a lot of time with them before they come

01:17:41.350 --> 01:17:45.029
to the recording. I mean, like I will have coffee

01:17:45.029 --> 01:17:48.149
with them. I will have lunch with them. I will

01:17:48.149 --> 01:17:53.079
let them pick the day, you know, it can be. maybe

01:17:53.079 --> 01:17:55.279
two months down the road you know but they have

01:17:55.279 --> 01:17:57.699
to be ready right they have to come committed

01:17:57.699 --> 01:18:02.960
so a lot of background prep before the actual

01:18:02.960 --> 01:18:06.779
recording yeah okay since your podcast isn't

01:18:06.779 --> 01:18:10.079
your full -time job yet yeah it's not what is

01:18:10.079 --> 01:18:12.319
your biggest dream or goal for women talking

01:18:12.319 --> 01:18:15.659
over the next say one year i hope more women

01:18:15.659 --> 01:18:19.819
will come on and then uh share just be candid,

01:18:19.920 --> 01:18:22.140
you know, to find their voice and to say things.

01:18:22.579 --> 01:18:25.479
I want, if they can be like you, right? Like,

01:18:25.479 --> 01:18:30.420
you know, I think men just have it lucky. They

01:18:30.420 --> 01:18:32.840
can say whatever they feel like and women just

01:18:32.840 --> 01:18:36.159
can't. Okay. And I just want them to talk about

01:18:36.159 --> 01:18:39.800
it, you know, like one example, caregiving. I

01:18:39.800 --> 01:18:42.670
mean, to talk about what they had to go through

01:18:42.670 --> 01:18:45.789
to caregiving and sacrifices. Most people are

01:18:45.789 --> 01:18:48.449
not used to even articulating that, right? Like

01:18:48.449 --> 01:18:51.229
they don't. I mean, to articulate that means

01:18:51.229 --> 01:18:54.550
to come full on to what they've given up, what

01:18:54.550 --> 01:18:56.430
they've sacrificed, what they have to come to

01:18:56.430 --> 01:18:59.189
terms with and the pain that they have to go

01:18:59.189 --> 01:19:01.909
through to be a caregiver. So a lot of them wouldn't

01:19:01.909 --> 01:19:05.020
want to talk about it. So I hope. I hope women

01:19:05.020 --> 01:19:07.539
can just talk about it to find their voice. And

01:19:07.539 --> 01:19:10.420
if it's how they feel life is unfair and men

01:19:10.420 --> 01:19:12.939
have it easier, just say it. It doesn't make

01:19:12.939 --> 01:19:15.619
you a feminist. It just makes you you and your

01:19:15.619 --> 01:19:18.500
opinion matters. And I just feel so many times

01:19:18.500 --> 01:19:21.000
we don't give enough credence to women who do

01:19:21.000 --> 01:19:24.140
so much. And I hope that's my goal. You know,

01:19:24.199 --> 01:19:27.579
I don't need a minister to come on, you know.

01:19:27.619 --> 01:19:31.289
I really don't need it. I'm not looking for that.

01:19:31.329 --> 01:19:33.750
I'm looking for real women who just want to talk

01:19:33.750 --> 01:19:36.310
about how their life was like, how maybe unfair

01:19:36.310 --> 01:19:39.750
it was, how great it was, how lucky they were,

01:19:39.829 --> 01:19:43.810
and to talk about how, and to show everyone,

01:19:43.970 --> 01:19:48.090
even though they were not successful in terms

01:19:48.090 --> 01:19:51.050
of what Singapore likes to label as successful,

01:19:51.270 --> 01:19:54.689
they had actually overcome great, tremendous

01:19:54.689 --> 01:19:57.579
challenges. And I feel we don't do enough of

01:19:57.579 --> 01:19:59.800
that for women in Singapore. Am I getting very

01:19:59.800 --> 01:20:01.859
emotional and passionate about this? No, please

01:20:01.859 --> 01:20:06.000
say whatever is on your mind, your heart. I would

01:20:06.000 --> 01:20:09.479
rather my guests talk. Just go ahead. I mean,

01:20:09.500 --> 01:20:11.939
I've seen it so many times, you know, they just

01:20:11.939 --> 01:20:14.960
like, you know, your mothers and your grandmothers

01:20:14.960 --> 01:20:18.859
and your aunties, you know, just quietly sacrificing

01:20:18.859 --> 01:20:22.039
their lives. And it's just, and then they go

01:20:22.039 --> 01:20:25.319
away and no one remembers that, right? Why can't

01:20:25.319 --> 01:20:27.920
I remember that? Why can't I remember that story

01:20:27.920 --> 01:20:31.899
in my podcast? So what? If no one listens to

01:20:31.899 --> 01:20:34.539
it, but one day someone will. Or the people who

01:20:34.539 --> 01:20:37.760
matter will listen. And that matters more to

01:20:37.760 --> 01:20:42.300
that person that I put on that podcast. Cool.

01:20:42.380 --> 01:20:45.279
Thank you very much, really. I really wanted

01:20:45.279 --> 01:20:46.979
to hear that. I mean, that's really cool, really.

01:20:47.220 --> 01:20:52.079
Thank you. And yeah, I mean, I'm not sexist and

01:20:52.079 --> 01:20:57.220
I agree. Yeah. So, I mean, I know you thought

01:20:57.220 --> 01:20:59.979
I was like, I thought you were arguing with me.

01:21:00.020 --> 01:21:01.859
Chris, you're not, you know, it's just that I

01:21:01.859 --> 01:21:05.279
feel that you're not in a sense, but I think

01:21:05.279 --> 01:21:06.640
you were just trying to push my buttons, but

01:21:06.640 --> 01:21:10.239
I just wanted a space for women to know that

01:21:10.239 --> 01:21:12.619
this is theirs. Okay. And why can't it be theirs?

01:21:12.779 --> 01:21:15.460
And on my show, you heard what Susanna just said

01:21:15.460 --> 01:21:19.279
about her show. And if she ever approaches you,

01:21:19.319 --> 01:21:22.300
don't say no. No, people say no. And I just,

01:21:22.300 --> 01:21:25.420
I just want to say, it's okay. I will come back

01:21:25.420 --> 01:21:27.260
to you again. Don't worry. You can change your

01:21:27.260 --> 01:21:30.060
mind with me. But, well, at least have a chat

01:21:30.060 --> 01:21:31.800
with her first casually, not in front of the

01:21:31.800 --> 01:21:34.000
camera, but don't say no immediately outright.

01:21:34.300 --> 01:21:36.260
You know, and I think she's trying to do what,

01:21:36.300 --> 01:21:38.500
she's trying to do something that's not easy

01:21:38.500 --> 01:21:41.979
to do. Okay. Yeah. Can I also say this? Like,

01:21:42.020 --> 01:21:44.279
I do not know if people actually look at the

01:21:44.279 --> 01:21:46.979
number of followers you have. before they decide

01:21:46.979 --> 01:21:49.119
to come on? I mean, it's not what I did. I don't

01:21:49.119 --> 01:21:52.119
know. I don't ask that either. Yeah, okay. Because

01:21:52.119 --> 01:21:54.659
sometimes I feel that people get a bit calculative

01:21:54.659 --> 01:21:56.979
and they want to look at your followers and all

01:21:56.979 --> 01:21:59.560
that before they make the decision. I never thought

01:21:59.560 --> 01:22:02.460
about that. Really? Because if they make the

01:22:02.460 --> 01:22:04.180
assessment whether I want to do this, because

01:22:04.180 --> 01:22:07.119
I think people do maybe see things a bit transactionally

01:22:07.119 --> 01:22:10.119
sometimes. But I just want to say that it's really

01:22:10.119 --> 01:22:12.140
not about followers, right? It's like I say,

01:22:12.220 --> 01:22:14.300
it's about... People who matter listening to

01:22:14.300 --> 01:22:16.979
what that person shares about. And if it's just

01:22:16.979 --> 01:22:19.979
one person, if it's your immediate family, hearing

01:22:19.979 --> 01:22:22.640
your testimony and hearing your voice for the

01:22:22.640 --> 01:22:25.159
first time that you never had a chance to, even

01:22:25.159 --> 01:22:28.000
in the family environment, that is already worthwhile.

01:22:28.319 --> 01:22:31.920
Yeah, yeah. You see, like I said earlier, I've

01:22:31.920 --> 01:22:35.069
got several verticals, right? And the verticals

01:22:35.069 --> 01:22:37.010
I've got, I still lobby and advocate for things

01:22:37.010 --> 01:22:39.949
as well. For people like musicians, performers,

01:22:40.289 --> 01:22:43.430
even authors and writers in our series, Ink Spill.

01:22:43.970 --> 01:22:47.310
And we do all that. The fun ones would be the

01:22:47.310 --> 01:22:53.050
UFO stories. And also jobs. People who made career

01:22:53.050 --> 01:22:58.470
changes and took risks. Guys who were... really

01:22:58.470 --> 01:23:00.510
not educated in the past, you know, before and

01:23:00.510 --> 01:23:02.489
when they were younger and then they decided

01:23:02.489 --> 01:23:06.430
to start a food business, right? I mean, stories

01:23:06.430 --> 01:23:08.390
that people can share and tell, lessons people

01:23:08.390 --> 01:23:11.670
can learn. And we're passionate about all these

01:23:11.670 --> 01:23:13.390
things. And that's the reason why we have these

01:23:13.390 --> 01:23:16.350
verticals, much like you. Your shows, you've

01:23:16.350 --> 01:23:19.829
said a lot, the passion shines through. And yeah,

01:23:19.970 --> 01:23:23.909
I mean, we all do these to advocate for things

01:23:23.909 --> 01:23:26.920
that we believe in. Yeah, it's not easy because

01:23:26.920 --> 01:23:30.140
I get very, I mean, like when you listen to these

01:23:30.140 --> 01:23:32.239
stories, sometimes you just feel, oh, life is

01:23:32.239 --> 01:23:35.699
so unfair. But I'm just happy that I have it

01:23:35.699 --> 01:23:38.779
captured on audio on the podcast. And when I'm

01:23:38.779 --> 01:23:41.939
editing it, it actually. motivates me. I said,

01:23:41.979 --> 01:23:44.319
I got to make this perfect because, you know,

01:23:44.340 --> 01:23:46.560
it's, it's something that they have agreed to,

01:23:46.579 --> 01:23:49.439
to come on to talk about. It's just, I try to

01:23:49.439 --> 01:23:51.239
make it as perfect as I can. And then, okay,

01:23:51.260 --> 01:23:52.899
maybe. Because all of a sudden you're the custodian

01:23:52.899 --> 01:23:54.939
of that story. Exactly. You know, and I feel

01:23:54.939 --> 01:23:57.680
that sense of responsibility and I've never felt

01:23:57.680 --> 01:24:00.960
such intense responsibility when I was in radio.

01:24:01.100 --> 01:24:03.340
Right. Because I think we never got so heavily

01:24:03.340 --> 01:24:06.119
into someone's life in radio when it took in

01:24:06.119 --> 01:24:08.319
requests and dedications. Did you see my talking

01:24:08.319 --> 01:24:13.319
points by chance? Why? Because throughout this

01:24:13.319 --> 01:24:15.640
whole conversation, all the things you said are

01:24:15.640 --> 01:24:17.920
flowing down exactly the same fashion of how

01:24:17.920 --> 01:24:20.300
I planned it. Oh, okay. Because what you've just

01:24:20.300 --> 01:24:22.819
said, which actually leads to this question,

01:24:22.859 --> 01:24:28.020
my next question. The roles you've had in your

01:24:28.020 --> 01:24:31.880
career, from the love goddess on radio to the

01:24:31.880 --> 01:24:36.260
strategic director from government and the host

01:24:36.260 --> 01:24:41.039
of Women Talking. Which of these roles do you

01:24:41.039 --> 01:24:45.859
think is closest to who Suzanne Walker is? Okay,

01:24:45.960 --> 01:24:50.460
it was what my son told me. He said, I'm so happy

01:24:50.460 --> 01:24:52.859
you've done the podcast. It's you, mom. But can

01:24:52.859 --> 01:24:54.579
you just hook up with Sheikh Haikal and talk

01:24:54.579 --> 01:24:56.479
to him because you can be very funny as well.

01:24:59.979 --> 01:25:03.420
Okay. And it was my son and a few of my very

01:25:03.420 --> 01:25:06.960
close friends whom I've known for the past 20

01:25:06.960 --> 01:25:09.840
years. And he said, oh, we're so happy that you're

01:25:09.840 --> 01:25:12.960
doing the podcast. Yes, you know, it's not making

01:25:12.960 --> 01:25:15.880
money, you know, you can't monetize it. It's

01:25:15.880 --> 01:25:18.560
something that, you know, you spend a lot of

01:25:18.560 --> 01:25:21.060
time doing and you do not know where it's going,

01:25:21.180 --> 01:25:24.850
but does it matter? They feel that it's really

01:25:24.850 --> 01:25:27.550
capturing me right now at this point in my life.

01:25:27.729 --> 01:25:31.590
And I think when I was in radio, my true self

01:25:31.590 --> 01:25:34.029
came out when I was in Power 98 and had the lunchtime

01:25:34.029 --> 01:25:37.409
program because that was really about my personality.

01:25:37.590 --> 01:25:40.050
And then we played some really crazy games and

01:25:40.050 --> 01:25:43.069
Power was just very dynamic at that phase in

01:25:43.069 --> 01:25:46.310
those years that I was on. So I would have to

01:25:46.310 --> 01:25:49.579
say a lot of people said... True Suzanne came

01:25:49.579 --> 01:25:52.880
out that time when she was in power and currently

01:25:52.880 --> 01:25:57.180
now in my podcast. Okay. Last question. Okay.

01:25:57.600 --> 01:26:01.100
One piece of encouragement you would give to

01:26:01.100 --> 01:26:04.119
anyone watching or listening now who's just left

01:26:04.119 --> 01:26:07.920
a demanding job and is trying to figure out what

01:26:07.920 --> 01:26:14.380
an own next hobby should be. Yeah. What their

01:26:14.380 --> 01:26:17.970
next hobby should be. Yeah. Trying to figure

01:26:17.970 --> 01:26:20.489
it out. Trying to figure out what their next

01:26:20.489 --> 01:26:23.510
hobby should be. They just left the job. You

01:26:23.510 --> 01:26:26.609
know, they may be like you. And maybe even like

01:26:26.609 --> 01:26:30.810
me at this stage in life. I think the first thing

01:26:30.810 --> 01:26:33.770
is, which is, okay, now that you brought up Chris

01:26:33.770 --> 01:26:37.710
Ho, is what Chris Ho taught me. And he's actually

01:26:37.710 --> 01:26:41.210
a strong Buddhist. These are all Buddhist teachings.

01:26:41.470 --> 01:26:44.090
It's not a religion. Caveat. It's just a way

01:26:44.090 --> 01:26:49.220
of life. It was like, what was the job to you,

01:26:49.260 --> 01:26:52.979
right? What was the job to you? And did you identify

01:26:52.979 --> 01:26:55.300
with that job, which is about attachment, right?

01:26:55.380 --> 01:27:00.060
And so the job had a place and it came during

01:27:00.060 --> 01:27:02.399
a season of your life when you needed it. And

01:27:02.399 --> 01:27:05.399
you've made a decision now to leave. And so you're

01:27:05.399 --> 01:27:07.619
moving on to a different season in your life.

01:27:07.859 --> 01:27:13.949
So your life was spent with that job. I hope

01:27:13.949 --> 01:27:15.909
you don't identify with the job. When you move

01:27:15.909 --> 01:27:20.029
on, you move on, you have to now look inward

01:27:20.029 --> 01:27:23.210
to find who you are. And that's what I've been

01:27:23.210 --> 01:27:30.510
doing. I've looked inward. I have removed what

01:27:30.510 --> 01:27:33.949
people have said about me because yes, thank

01:27:33.949 --> 01:27:35.869
you. You have said some good things. People have

01:27:35.869 --> 01:27:38.130
said some bad things. Yes, I put them out there

01:27:38.130 --> 01:27:40.770
and it has its space. But I've looked inward

01:27:40.770 --> 01:27:44.039
to see. What makes me happy at this point in

01:27:44.039 --> 01:27:47.420
my life? So the job is already out there. It's

01:27:47.420 --> 01:27:52.119
over, right? You have to let go of that and find

01:27:52.119 --> 01:27:55.699
out what you feel you never could fulfill in

01:27:55.699 --> 01:27:57.819
the past years that you've been busy doing all

01:27:57.819 --> 01:27:59.500
these other things for different people in that

01:27:59.500 --> 01:28:02.640
season of your life and see whether you can explore

01:28:02.640 --> 01:28:04.760
what you always wanted to do in this season.

01:28:05.220 --> 01:28:07.920
Because this is about fulfilling what you could

01:28:07.920 --> 01:28:10.970
not fulfill. That's the first thing. Secondly

01:28:10.970 --> 01:28:14.529
is to find happiness. Okay. If you've managed

01:28:14.529 --> 01:28:17.189
to sort out your finances and chances are, if

01:28:17.189 --> 01:28:18.970
you do leave your job, you probably have some

01:28:18.970 --> 01:28:21.529
idea of where your finances are going. So you

01:28:21.529 --> 01:28:25.609
shouldn't be too fixated on that. You should

01:28:25.609 --> 01:28:28.890
accept your life as it is now. So if you have

01:28:28.890 --> 01:28:32.550
to maybe spend less, cut down, there's no shame

01:28:32.550 --> 01:28:36.170
in it. It's fine. What you need to do is find

01:28:36.170 --> 01:28:38.270
that happiness in that state that you're in right

01:28:38.270 --> 01:28:41.409
now. And I have found it. I don't need to go

01:28:41.409 --> 01:28:44.270
to a restaurant. I don't need to meet people

01:28:44.270 --> 01:28:47.229
for coffee in an expensive place. I can actually

01:28:47.229 --> 01:28:49.630
do Zoom calls with my friends or I can meet people

01:28:49.630 --> 01:28:54.649
just at a park to talk about it, right? So during

01:28:54.649 --> 01:28:57.390
this period, I realized that I wanted to reconnect

01:28:57.390 --> 01:29:00.289
with women who I've always admired in my entire

01:29:00.289 --> 01:29:03.170
life, but never had a chance to go deep into

01:29:03.170 --> 01:29:05.329
what they did or how they managed to overcome

01:29:05.329 --> 01:29:07.930
it or why they became what they did or have.

01:29:09.500 --> 01:29:12.260
In that quiet space, when I look deep inside

01:29:12.260 --> 01:29:14.979
me, I realize, yeah, I want to speak with these

01:29:14.979 --> 01:29:17.520
women. I want to hear what they have to say.

01:29:17.640 --> 01:29:21.340
And that's kind of helped me move towards podcasting.

01:29:21.800 --> 01:29:26.300
And I hope all this makes sense to you, Chris,

01:29:26.399 --> 01:29:32.000
as I'm sharing that. But if you feel lost, I

01:29:32.000 --> 01:29:35.119
also want to say I have felt lost as well as

01:29:35.119 --> 01:29:38.039
you navigate this change and transition. And

01:29:38.039 --> 01:29:41.180
please be kind to yourself because no one else

01:29:41.180 --> 01:29:44.119
is going to be kind to you if you don't, you

01:29:44.119 --> 01:29:47.960
know, if you don't choose to be kind to yourself.

01:29:48.060 --> 01:29:49.920
You cannot expect people to be kind to you. So

01:29:49.920 --> 01:29:53.560
when you're in this phase, right, just make sure

01:29:53.560 --> 01:29:58.739
you focus on you and put barriers on people who

01:29:58.739 --> 01:30:02.140
are going to put you down, right? At your age,

01:30:02.239 --> 01:30:04.420
I know you've already made very sensible decisions

01:30:04.420 --> 01:30:07.180
with your life, so you can't go that wrong. But

01:30:07.180 --> 01:30:09.500
now it's about protecting you and doing things

01:30:09.500 --> 01:30:11.359
that you always wanted to do and doing things

01:30:11.359 --> 01:30:13.680
that you know will make you happy and focus on

01:30:13.680 --> 01:30:16.460
that and you never know what will happen. Thanks,

01:30:16.520 --> 01:30:19.140
man. I mean, I appreciate you saying all that,

01:30:19.239 --> 01:30:22.439
which brings to mind a story I heard yesterday.

01:30:22.600 --> 01:30:25.220
I was with a friend. I hardly bump into him.

01:30:25.279 --> 01:30:27.420
But when we do, we just talk for a couple of

01:30:27.420 --> 01:30:31.020
minutes, you know, and he gives you some background,

01:30:31.239 --> 01:30:36.430
yeah, to end the show. He lost his wife. a couple

01:30:36.430 --> 01:30:40.090
of years ago. He's got two daughters. So sad.

01:30:40.210 --> 01:30:43.869
Very sad, yeah. And he actually told me this.

01:30:44.069 --> 01:30:47.050
He's got a dog at home now too. And he said that

01:30:47.050 --> 01:30:51.689
when a person is about on the deathbed and you

01:30:51.689 --> 01:30:53.489
know they're going to go and you love that person

01:30:53.489 --> 01:30:57.369
so much, all you do on that remaining period

01:30:57.369 --> 01:31:01.710
of time was to give the best you can to that

01:31:01.710 --> 01:31:05.880
person that you love so much. And then he did.

01:31:06.619 --> 01:31:10.720
And then now he says his dog is also on its last

01:31:10.720 --> 01:31:13.939
throes of life and he's giving his best to his

01:31:13.939 --> 01:31:20.300
dog. His two daughters, he raised well. He sends

01:31:20.300 --> 01:31:23.520
them to school. By the time the spouse passed

01:31:23.520 --> 01:31:26.659
away, took care of the daughters. One's a doctor

01:31:26.659 --> 01:31:30.260
today and they live with him. One, I think, is

01:31:30.260 --> 01:31:34.479
married. I think. And this one that lives with

01:31:34.479 --> 01:31:38.399
him has just applied for her own accommodations.

01:31:39.060 --> 01:31:41.939
She wants to move out on her own and be independent.

01:31:43.319 --> 01:31:46.659
And he knows that he told me this, to quote him,

01:31:46.779 --> 01:31:51.579
I know that time is coming and I don't know what

01:31:51.579 --> 01:31:56.579
to do. For me to just send her to work every

01:31:56.579 --> 01:32:01.060
day, it's not a chore. It still gives me something

01:32:01.060 --> 01:32:07.090
to do. And he's an educated guy. He's a professional.

01:32:07.409 --> 01:32:11.029
He's not that old. He's in his 60s. Late 60s.

01:32:12.890 --> 01:32:17.390
And I go back home. I go to bed. After a while,

01:32:17.569 --> 01:32:20.470
you get used to that person you love is no longer

01:32:20.470 --> 01:32:23.729
on that bed with you. But you know you're going

01:32:23.729 --> 01:32:28.390
to be left alone. Once she moves out, that time

01:32:28.390 --> 01:32:31.229
is coming. I know that time is coming. What am

01:32:31.229 --> 01:32:37.920
I going to do? I said to him, you golf, don't

01:32:37.920 --> 01:32:41.140
you? Yeah, but there's only so much you can do

01:32:41.140 --> 01:32:47.880
in golfing. I go for 200, I go to driving range

01:32:47.880 --> 01:32:50.140
and I, you know, and I go at it 200 times and

01:32:50.140 --> 01:32:52.420
I ache the next day. So it doesn't really help

01:32:52.420 --> 01:32:53.779
because I'm not getting younger either, right?

01:32:54.340 --> 01:32:58.899
And I'm retired. No one's going to hire me. And

01:32:58.899 --> 01:33:01.460
he says, and all, and I told him, don't you realize

01:33:01.460 --> 01:33:04.020
that all your life, You've been doing nothing

01:33:04.020 --> 01:33:08.060
but care for others. He says, I realized that.

01:33:08.539 --> 01:33:12.539
I just don't know how to love me. That's the

01:33:12.539 --> 01:33:16.720
thing. And this man, throughout all these years

01:33:16.720 --> 01:33:20.220
I've known him, has pride. He won't talk. But

01:33:20.220 --> 01:33:23.520
with me, he opened up. And it was just the two

01:33:23.520 --> 01:33:27.020
of us. And I said, you know, my friend, the first

01:33:27.020 --> 01:33:31.100
thing you need to do now to give yourself purpose.

01:33:31.869 --> 01:33:36.289
It's to love yourself. Until you find that, you

01:33:36.289 --> 01:33:41.229
wouldn't know what to do. Right? And I had to

01:33:41.229 --> 01:33:43.569
run for an appointment and I was running late

01:33:43.569 --> 01:33:47.909
and I really felt so bad that I had to go and

01:33:47.909 --> 01:33:51.229
leave him there. So I'm going to try and catch

01:33:51.229 --> 01:33:56.090
up with this guy. But you know, I hear you. These

01:33:56.090 --> 01:33:58.819
are... like this question I just asked you and

01:33:58.819 --> 01:34:00.439
the answer you gave is quite similar to what

01:34:00.439 --> 01:34:04.260
this guy is going through. You know, that there

01:34:04.260 --> 01:34:06.920
comes a time in life, I think, for a lot of people

01:34:06.920 --> 01:34:09.220
that, what are we going to do, man? You know,

01:34:09.239 --> 01:34:13.399
you come to those crossroads and then all of

01:34:13.399 --> 01:34:17.939
a sudden, family, kids left the roost and hopefully

01:34:17.939 --> 01:34:21.100
think, you know, I mean, families will go through

01:34:21.100 --> 01:34:24.000
that, certain tragedies and you're left alone.

01:34:26.460 --> 01:34:29.779
And the question, even me, I'm asking myself

01:34:29.779 --> 01:34:32.260
now at this stage of life, what are you going

01:34:32.260 --> 01:34:36.359
to do, Chris? You know? Yeah, because I'm getting

01:34:36.359 --> 01:34:38.159
older and I know that and I recognize that and

01:34:38.159 --> 01:34:40.300
I acknowledge that, right? What are you going

01:34:40.300 --> 01:34:45.939
to do? And that's why I am so happy doing this,

01:34:46.039 --> 01:34:50.560
doing this podcast. And I also don't think it's

01:34:50.560 --> 01:34:52.359
about the podcast. It's the connection that you

01:34:52.359 --> 01:34:55.640
have, like what we've had in the past two hours.

01:34:55.840 --> 01:34:58.960
And this kind of gives some validation and meaning

01:34:58.960 --> 01:35:01.819
and it gives you a different perspective, right?

01:35:01.920 --> 01:35:05.399
Yeah. I met so many people, so many stories.

01:35:05.500 --> 01:35:08.279
Some enjoyable stories, some hilarious ones.

01:35:08.460 --> 01:35:10.699
You know, it's been fantastic. I just thought

01:35:10.699 --> 01:35:12.779
most of your podcast series are actually quite

01:35:12.779 --> 01:35:15.560
funny. Especially when you talk to the nightlife

01:35:15.560 --> 01:35:17.159
people, right? They always have all these stories

01:35:17.159 --> 01:35:19.939
to share. Yeah, it's so funny. Hilarious people

01:35:19.939 --> 01:35:22.399
I've got. But you know, nightlife back in the

01:35:22.399 --> 01:35:24.979
80s and 90s was something. Now, it's like, oh,

01:35:25.020 --> 01:35:29.149
it's boring. Boring. I mean, you know, I can

01:35:29.149 --> 01:35:31.590
just tell you like I lived through Walla Walla,

01:35:31.590 --> 01:35:33.770
you know. Oh, hell yeah. And I just want to share

01:35:33.770 --> 01:35:36.210
one story with you if we can just, I can just

01:35:36.210 --> 01:35:38.069
share this. Oh my God. You know, a lot of people

01:35:38.069 --> 01:35:41.649
don't know like how funky Walla Walla was before

01:35:41.649 --> 01:35:43.310
it became like the trending. KP's place, yeah.

01:35:43.390 --> 01:35:45.850
Yeah, it was like now it's so trendy. But at

01:35:45.850 --> 01:35:48.449
one point, a lot of people from the universities

01:35:48.449 --> 01:35:50.369
and people living around Holland Village would

01:35:50.369 --> 01:35:52.390
go to Walla Walla. Why? Because they had whole

01:35:52.390 --> 01:35:54.630
garden and whole garden was dirt cheap. Yes,

01:35:54.630 --> 01:35:56.869
that's it. And they had like one for one. And

01:35:56.869 --> 01:35:59.949
they had a very great manager who allowed you

01:35:59.949 --> 01:36:01.989
to call in your order if you're going to be late

01:36:01.989 --> 01:36:05.050
before the one -for -one ended. Yes, yes, yes.

01:36:05.430 --> 01:36:08.989
So I remember at Radio Empower 98, a few of them

01:36:08.989 --> 01:36:10.989
used to call and say, we're coming over. I said,

01:36:11.029 --> 01:36:12.630
okay, we want like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:36:12.710 --> 01:36:14.369
I said, okay, we'll save your one -for -one.

01:36:14.470 --> 01:36:17.840
So they'll show up after nine. And then we'll

01:36:17.840 --> 01:36:20.060
have one for one that will go on for the whole

01:36:20.060 --> 01:36:23.140
night because we pre -booked. And a lot of people

01:36:23.140 --> 01:36:25.640
would hang out there in slippers. And it was

01:36:25.640 --> 01:36:27.640
just a funky, I used to cycle there and chuck

01:36:27.640 --> 01:36:31.520
my bicycle. It's a neighborhood. Yeah. And if

01:36:31.520 --> 01:36:34.680
there was only one payphone, it was the orange

01:36:34.680 --> 01:36:36.579
payphone where you put in 10 cents, right? Yeah.

01:36:36.699 --> 01:36:39.000
And I remember, I think it was one program director.

01:36:39.020 --> 01:36:42.739
I can't remember the name. at 999 on my pager,

01:36:42.819 --> 01:36:46.380
you know? And no one, I didn't see it until one.

01:36:46.479 --> 01:36:49.399
That was how crazy we were. And I actually, they're

01:36:49.399 --> 01:36:52.159
closed up and they will close up the Walla Walla

01:36:52.159 --> 01:36:53.920
and we could still continue the party then. I

01:36:53.920 --> 01:36:55.800
do not know if there was any breach in regulations,

01:36:55.960 --> 01:36:58.939
but anyways, it was like a long time ago. And

01:36:58.939 --> 01:37:01.100
I would say, oh my goodness, do I need to call

01:37:01.100 --> 01:37:03.840
now? And what Walla Walla would do is they will

01:37:03.840 --> 01:37:07.319
open up the door, pull out the payphone, plug

01:37:07.319 --> 01:37:11.680
it in for me so I could use the payphone. It

01:37:11.680 --> 01:37:14.779
was crazy. So, I mean, I hope you'll have someone

01:37:14.779 --> 01:37:17.000
come in and talk about Walla Walla for you. Well,

01:37:17.060 --> 01:37:19.920
KP did. And now that you jogged my memory too,

01:37:20.180 --> 01:37:23.079
Walla Walla was very famous for their one -for

01:37:23.079 --> 01:37:25.399
-one whole garden. Yeah, it was very famous.

01:37:25.460 --> 01:37:27.840
And Johnny Walker, who brought in whole garden,

01:37:27.979 --> 01:37:30.079
everyone thought I was his ex -wife or something,

01:37:30.260 --> 01:37:33.399
used to hang out there. Unfortunately, he's passed

01:37:33.399 --> 01:37:36.600
away. Number five. Yeah, it was like whole garden.

01:37:36.960 --> 01:37:41.399
And there was also some... They were like so

01:37:41.399 --> 01:37:44.239
rude. I remember my sister from the US came down

01:37:44.239 --> 01:37:46.720
and she asked one of the waiters, oh, what's

01:37:46.720 --> 01:37:48.579
your red wine? Because she's from the US, right?

01:37:48.619 --> 01:37:50.859
It could have been a Merlot or Chablis or something.

01:37:51.100 --> 01:37:53.399
And he said, it's red. And she said, what's your,

01:37:53.420 --> 01:37:55.640
so what's your red wine? I said, it's red. I

01:37:55.640 --> 01:37:57.680
said, what's your red? I said, I think I saw,

01:37:57.720 --> 01:37:59.960
I told my sister, Lena, I think. He just knows

01:37:59.960 --> 01:38:04.199
it's red. And he said, yes, it's red. That was

01:38:04.199 --> 01:38:08.199
Walla Walla. And my sister till today can tell

01:38:08.199 --> 01:38:11.220
me that story. Yeah. And famously, jive talking

01:38:11.220 --> 01:38:13.640
started there. Oh, I didn't know. I didn't know

01:38:13.640 --> 01:38:16.739
about that. Yeah. Yeah. I had KP on the show

01:38:16.739 --> 01:38:19.420
and we were talking about Walla Walla, but I

01:38:19.420 --> 01:38:23.000
forgot all about that. the whole garden yeah

01:38:23.000 --> 01:38:24.979
it was the whole garden you know that's what

01:38:24.979 --> 01:38:26.880
they were really famous for everyone was drinking

01:38:26.880 --> 01:38:29.720
the whole garden it was cheap it was easy and

01:38:29.720 --> 01:38:32.539
it was just this big pipe And it was like in

01:38:32.539 --> 01:38:34.520
the neighborhood, you just show up in your slippers.

01:38:34.560 --> 01:38:36.579
I'll chuck my bicycle on the side. And then like

01:38:36.579 --> 01:38:39.260
later on at two o 'clock, after everyone decides

01:38:39.260 --> 01:38:41.819
it's time to go, I think the bar had closed hours

01:38:41.819 --> 01:38:44.420
ago. I would just take my bicycle. I couldn't

01:38:44.420 --> 01:38:46.880
bicycle home anymore. I would just push my bike

01:38:46.880 --> 01:38:51.340
home. It was really great. I mean, no one remembers

01:38:51.340 --> 01:38:54.159
those times. Yeah, yeah. Well, those days are

01:38:54.159 --> 01:38:56.260
over. I hope they will revive again. You know,

01:38:56.300 --> 01:38:58.970
I mean. Working so hard, trying so hard, doing

01:38:58.970 --> 01:39:01.609
whatever I can in my own small little way to

01:39:01.609 --> 01:39:03.989
hopefully get people to be aware that, hey, you

01:39:03.989 --> 01:39:07.930
guys are killing nightlife. And we've lost music

01:39:07.930 --> 01:39:12.130
in this country's DNA, man. No, yeah. We've lost

01:39:12.130 --> 01:39:17.050
it. It's a phenomenon. If you were to take a

01:39:17.050 --> 01:39:18.710
look at the last couple of years on American

01:39:18.710 --> 01:39:22.170
Top 40, look at the charts. You hardly see a

01:39:22.170 --> 01:39:26.060
band. Is that right? If you see any groups, there

01:39:26.060 --> 01:39:28.180
are groups like K -pop and whatever, you don't

01:39:28.180 --> 01:39:32.500
see bands. You see solo artists all the time.

01:39:32.699 --> 01:39:35.720
Okay, so maybe groups are out of fashion now?

01:39:35.880 --> 01:39:38.979
Bands seem to be out of fashion, which is scary.

01:39:39.260 --> 01:39:43.739
I mean, I just feel so sad. When you have big

01:39:43.739 --> 01:39:46.159
sound, most of these young people have never

01:39:46.159 --> 01:39:50.210
experienced even a five or six piece. you know?

01:39:50.229 --> 01:39:52.409
Yeah. In those days, remember we used to see

01:39:52.409 --> 01:39:54.729
bands like that. We go gaga over these, these

01:39:54.729 --> 01:39:57.449
sort of, the sound's so big, right? And it's

01:39:57.449 --> 01:40:00.970
so, so much more fun. Well, anyways, we digress.

01:40:02.630 --> 01:40:05.369
Okay. Thanks again, Suzanne, for spending time

01:40:05.369 --> 01:40:13.329
being so honest and open and absolutely frank.

01:40:14.000 --> 01:40:15.939
Yeah. You know, I've never been very ambitious,

01:40:15.979 --> 01:40:18.619
so I don't have that veneer of like professionalism,

01:40:18.659 --> 01:40:20.979
particularly when I have a mic in front of me

01:40:20.979 --> 01:40:23.279
and we're talking. I mean, it just goes back

01:40:23.279 --> 01:40:28.020
to my old days in radio. But I think the only

01:40:28.020 --> 01:40:30.319
way forward is to be authentic. And that is also

01:40:30.319 --> 01:40:34.680
a Chris Ho advice. Well, I don't know if you

01:40:34.680 --> 01:40:38.300
see what we write in our show. the most authentic

01:40:38.300 --> 01:40:40.159
conversation you can find in Singapore. Yeah.

01:40:40.220 --> 01:40:42.699
I don't want to offend people and I hope we didn't.

01:40:42.699 --> 01:40:45.100
I think we were just being real. Honestly, I

01:40:45.100 --> 01:40:49.819
don't care whether you have or not. I really

01:40:49.819 --> 01:40:52.000
don't. Well, anyway, thanks again, really. It's

01:40:52.000 --> 01:40:53.840
wonderful to have you in the studio. It's a great

01:40:53.840 --> 01:40:56.000
conversation, really. I hope we had fun too.

01:40:56.159 --> 01:40:58.060
I did. I did. Thank you so much. Not at all.

01:40:58.100 --> 01:41:00.319
My pleasure. Pleasure's all mine. Okay, everybody.

01:41:00.420 --> 01:41:02.659
Thank you for watching this episode. That was

01:41:02.659 --> 01:41:05.220
Suzanne Walker. And I tell you, it was so good

01:41:05.220 --> 01:41:09.460
to hear her voice, especially in my cans. And

01:41:09.460 --> 01:41:13.119
one day, who knows? I might just do a love songs.

01:41:15.239 --> 01:41:17.420
Go for it. I don't see why you should. Oh, man.

01:41:18.500 --> 01:41:22.300
Do a sex show, you know. What? Take calls. There's

01:41:22.300 --> 01:41:24.500
a show in Hong Kong where it's like a podcast

01:41:24.500 --> 01:41:27.420
where they actually take calls and people call

01:41:27.420 --> 01:41:29.479
in to talk about their marital problems, their

01:41:29.479 --> 01:41:34.520
sex problems. I will be arrested. This is Singapore.

01:41:37.079 --> 01:41:40.979
What else I thought? It's not on broadcast. So

01:41:40.979 --> 01:41:42.979
I do not know whether there are regulations against

01:41:42.979 --> 01:41:46.420
it if it's on a podcast. Sometimes there are

01:41:46.420 --> 01:41:48.500
just some areas I fear to tread. I understand.

01:41:48.680 --> 01:41:50.720
As much as daring as I can be. You don't want

01:41:50.720 --> 01:41:53.720
to get a POFMA letter, right? How does it work?

01:41:53.800 --> 01:41:57.340
Absolutely. So I'm not going to go there. Okay.

01:41:57.560 --> 01:42:00.739
Anyway, everybody, thank you very much for watching

01:42:00.739 --> 01:42:03.819
this episode with Suzanne Walker. Just so you

01:42:03.819 --> 01:42:06.020
know, Suzanne, the title of this episode today,

01:42:06.569 --> 01:42:09.750
is that one from Radio's Love Goddess to Podcaster.

01:42:09.949 --> 01:42:14.109
Oh. That's your episode title. And thank you

01:42:14.109 --> 01:42:15.949
for watching, everybody. Come back again, same

01:42:15.949 --> 01:42:19.869
time, same place, same channel, next week. Until

01:42:19.869 --> 01:42:23.449
then, take care, stay safe. Bye -bye. The Chris

01:42:23.449 --> 01:42:27.369
Hansen Conversation. Real talk, no filters. And

01:42:27.369 --> 01:42:30.250
a growing community of more than 90 ,000 subscribers

01:42:30.250 --> 01:42:33.130
across ASEAN, right here from Singapore.