Welcome back to Hobbies and Lobbies, the series
where we explore the passion projects that continue
to define the most fascinating people. Our guest
today has a story that proves professional purpose
is always evolving and that talent, once honed,
can pivot to anything. For many years, her voice
was the soundtrack to late night's comfort and
connection for an entire generation. She is a
true Singapore radio legend. the one and only
love goddess, Suzanne Walker, the veteran DJ
who achieved unprecedented success with Love
Songs on Class 95 FM. But Suzanne's story is
defined by a massive, deliberate pivot. She left
the world of mass entertainment to move into
the intense realm of public service, becoming
the Deputy Director of Strategic Communications
at the National Youth Council. Now, she has stepped
away from that demanding executive career to
focus in incredible communication skills on a
project that is purely her own. This is where
the hobby, and perhaps even lobby, comes in.
Her intellectual and deeply personal podcast,
Women Talking, is a platform dedicated to intelligent,
nuanced conversation, from dissecting complex
literature to openly discussing serious mental
health concerns. It's an arena where she controls
the conversation entirely. We're going to discuss
the amazing leap from being a radio star to becoming
a civil servant and now to acting as an independent
media curator. We'll discover how the machinations
of a show, Women Talking, provide her with purpose
and joy in this exciting new chapter. Please
join me in welcoming the incomparable Suzanne
Walker to the Chris Hansen Conversation. Can
I just ask you to just replicate that one more
time? Just for everyone to just, you know, just
reminisce a little bit. You're listening to the
greatest of all human emotions, love songs on
Class 95. Oh my goodness me. Let me take the
cans off a bit. All right. My ears were sweating
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Now, let's start the show. I'm ready. Okay, good.
As a matter of fact, we've been rolling, so don't
worry. Okay. Right, Kai? Yep. Always be a rolling.
Who did we learn that from? Bloody hell, Joe
Augustine. Okay. Have you had Joe on yet? Oh,
yeah. Oh, my goodness. What a conversation that
one was. I mean, he's called his show The Shit
Show, right? I was like, I'll never come on.
The Shit Show. Yeah, Joe, Joe, Joe. There can
only be one. One Joe Augustine. But I haven't
been in contact with him, but I know many people
actually showed up at the Power 98 final day
of broadcasting, I think end of October. There
was some farewell. I wasn't there. They closed
it down, right? They went online. I felt very
sad actually, but everyone seemed to be celebrating.
So I just thought, okay, maybe I'm not in the
right mood anyways. I've got the vibe wrong.
But why are they celebrating? I mean, it's the
end of an era for Power 98. And I wonder why,
because I mean, doesn't MINDEF, SAF need to still
have their radio station? I think they actually
wanted an FM bandwidth because in times of crisis,
they feel that radio would be the best communications.
Exactly. But in this day and age, is it really
radio? And by the way, I've worked in some...
peacekeeping missions and radio stations can
be set up very quickly within like a day or two.
Maybe times have changed. Maybe things are a
lot easier to set up an FN band with nowadays,
just like that. Yeah. And then, I mean, to keep
that radio station going, I don't know about
the cost, but I mean, also in this day and age,
maybe digital communications is going to be the
future for us. Then again, I mean, in times of
war, we don't know what's going to happen to
digital, man. Whether or not it's going to be
easily blown up to bits, you know. I mean, you've
got to have a place to stream your stuff. You've
got to have servers. You've got to have all that.
But you just need a mobile network these days
and then you can actually communicate. So I think
setting up a mobile network is about the same
as setting up a transmitter. Well, I don't know.
I mean, strategically, I don't know whether or
not that's a good idea. Okay, yeah, but Mindev
should be saying something, right? But then again,
SPH, they're quite rubbish too because they don't
report the stuff they're supposed to report.
I'll leave that to your sister. Every morning,
right? I noticed that she used to come on every
morning on her Facebook page. Her birthday blows
up. Yeah, but now she comes in in the afternoon
as well. I've noticed that. Because she's taking
care of her mom. So sometimes she's really taken
up too. But she's funny. And you know, she's
been on my podcast as well. Wait, has the show
started? Of course. No, I mean, we've just been
rolling. Don't worry about it. We just did the
juicy bits and put it on. Hi, everybody. And
welcome back to the Chris Hansen conversation.
I'm so excited. because I've always wanted to
meet her. I had an opportunity to have met her
once before, years ago, but it just didn't happen.
We were on the same TV show, but I've never got
a chance to meet her. But today she's here in
my studio and she's a legend on radio because
I tell you why she's my legend. Let me tell you
why. Because when I drive back home at night,
years and years back, and I drive back home and
I hear that voice on air late at night and I
go, oh my God, who is this girl? Hi, this is
Love Songs. And I'm the love goddess. Oh, my
goodness. Me, Suzanne Walker, everybody. Welcome
to the studio. Thank you so much, Chris. That
was about 30 years ago. You really dated me.
30 years ago. No, no, no. I was dating you. I
was dating you every time I'm in the car at night
and I turn on to your station when you're on.
It's just that I didn't know about it, right?
I was dating so many NS boys as well, but I didn't
really know about it. Actually, there's some
truth there, you know. A lot of the guys back
then don't tell me, hey, this girl, Suzanne Walker
on the air. My goodness, the way she goes on
air, the way her voice goes. But, you know, back
in the day, I don't think they had any other
radio stations that were broadcasting at that
time. So a lot of the NS boys would actually
listen to the radio and they would actually line
up. Previously, I think a payphone. So they will
line up like in the camp that they were at and
they will wait their turn to make a call to me
and hope that I'll pick up and then dedicate
a song to their girlfriend and tell me exactly
what time I should actually play that dedicated
song because their girlfriend will be back home
or on the bus or maybe she'll be settled back
in her bedroom and listening to the radio. So
yeah, I do know there were many NS boys who were
listening to me. But you know something, man?
That... persona you put on yeah that voice you
put on air right as the love goddess right i
mean i mean how did you do that okay can i just
ask you to just replicate that one more time
just for everyone to just you know just reminisce
a little bit you're listening to the greatest
of all human emotions love songs on class 95
oh my goodness me let me take the cans off a
bit all right my ears were sweating on the inside
Actually, I got a lot of guidance. I think there
were some American consultants that came in to
SBC then and they wanted to actually do a 24
-hour format radio. The guys from Coast to Coast.
I think so. I think one of the guys' name was
Todd. I can't remember. And he was telling me
like late night programming, people want to hear
you be intimate with them. They want something
close and warm and think about it. Like think
of what you would like to hear if you were alone,
you know. And so they put me in that kind of
headspace and that kind of helped me gear myself
towards the kind of persona that you heard. But
I'm very grateful that it was. such a success,
but it was difficult for me career wise because
it was very hard to get out of that program.
Oh, wow. Yeah. A lot of people still want that.
They still want that, but it was actually a very
intentional type of presentation that I created.
But you know why? I think people still want that
because not many people can do that. Well, I
think many other girls have tried the close mic
technique. Oh, no, no, no. They all fail. They
all fail. They all fail. Because speaking for
myself and the people I know, I can tell you
no one remembers any of them. Well, yeah, you
know, that's the funny thing, right? We remember
you. Yeah, I just don't understand why. But I
think maybe it was just the first time people
were listening to something like that. You must
have heard your own playback, right? I have.
I mean, that's why. Even when at Christmas parties,
I still have people say, can you do that line,
the love songs line? Can you just do that for
me, please? And I just do it and everyone just
have a good laugh. I just did it like two Christmases
ago. You were quite the inspiration, you know,
a bit for me. Because I think I told FD this
years back. And FD actually was doing the late
night show at Perfect 10. And sometimes we would
chat. So yeah, I remember FD in those late night
programs. I told FD. Was it Perfect 10? Was he
FD in Perfect 10? He was. I think he would do
a show or something like that. Then he'll come
on and do some late night programming. He came
in straight away to Class 95 in the morning with
Joe. His first foray into radio, not radio fusion,
radio. He was also doing Perfect 10, I think,
late night. Yes, late night. Sometimes maybe
he covers for someone. Probably as a part -timer.
Yeah, as a cover. He wasn't a full -time presenter
then. Because I told him years ago, I remember
telling him, saying something like this to him,
because, you know, I really want to have that
slot that Suzanne has, you know, because I think
I can do the male version. Yeah, yeah. You're
listening to love songs. All you have to do is
keep me, keep me as your company tonight. Bring
up. the subs yeah i mean like bring up the volume
bring up the low frequency and then they did
try with another male presenter after i left
but it was a different vibe is it yeah He who
pronounces his name and makes it sound more like
a fish than it actually is. But back to how I
came up with that program. You are so good at
reflecting that. You're doing this Tai Chi thing
with me. I've gotten into trouble by saying things
I shouldn't be saying. So I know I'm not an expert.
But you're no longer in any station. I'm not
in any station. Hey, I'm sorry, Simon. But really,
this is how you sound. I'm just being freaking
honest. Back to how I came up with those love
song tags. The greatest of all human emotions.
Actually, those lines came from a very famous
book. Of course, I wasn't romantic. I'm the least
romantic person in the world. You gotta be kidding
me. Yeah, I'm not. Oh, come on. I am not at all.
I'm so not into romantic dinners or even listening
to love songs. What? Yeah, I was more into getting
my tan every weekend. So to inspire myself, I
got this book. Khalil Gibram. Or Gilbram? Khalil
Gibram. Khalil Gibram. Okay. Yeah. And it was
about love. You know, it talked about love and
the emotions of love. So I read through that
entire book and that tag, the greatest of all
human emotions, comes from that book. So I wasn't
original actually. I mean, I have to give credit.
You were doing this character acting thing you
mean. Correct. And just to think about like,
what are these like, you know, great emotions
and how do you express them? And what are the...
proper phrases and words to use. It came from
that book. Who came up with this love goddess
moniker for you? I think the love goddess came
from a colleague of mine who was in class 95.
I think his name, I think it was Chris. Chris
Ho? No, it wasn't Chris Ho. Chris, I think he's
based in the US now. He left, he wasn't there
for very long and he was just one of the part
-timers. Chris Goh? Yes. He's back on air anyway.
Is he back on air? Yes, on 1FM. Oh. Sorry, on
Goh. Whoops. whoops on gold on gold he's on gold
now Christopher Gold yeah yeah and I think one
day he said to me yo the love goddess is coming
on tonight and then it just stuck you know and
then it just got around and they just started
using that hey Kai can we put up that picture
of the love goddess please Let everyone reminisce
again. There you go. Well, actually, that wasn't
me at Class 95. That was me at... Empower. No,
in SPH Radio. It doesn't matter, man. It's still
you. Yeah, that was the last publicity promo
shot that I took. And that was it. They used
to call me the transformation queen because I
never looked like that before I got into the
photo studio. I needed a lot of hair, a lot of
makeup to get what you see now. Well, that's
a great shot, by the way. All the stylists used
to say, well, Suzanne, she needs MU. Without
MU, please, you know, she needs help. MU, MU,
makeup. Yes. So I was really a product of good
styling. And I don't mean to sound like, to sound,
to bust everyone's bubble, but it was the truth.
You know, without a lot of professional help,
I wouldn't be the Suzanne Walker everyone knows.
Okay. I mentioned earlier when we started the
show that I almost had the opportunity to have
met you on set. But it didn't happen because
our scenes were, we didn't have a scene together.
Was it some masses of the sea? No, it wasn't
a cockroach show. Ah, you cockroach or whatever.
I stop you like a cockroach. I squish you like
a cockroach. Something like that, yeah. No, it
was Shiver. I think I was with K -Tongue, right?
And then I had to do a love scene. I just hated
it. I was such a bad actor. You had a love scene
with K -Tongue? Something like, oh, we would
fall into bed and they wanted me to be all natural
about it. But I was so stiff. I was like, oh
my goodness, I prefer radio any day. Was it that?
Was it that episode? No, no, it wasn't that one.
That was growing up, wasn't it? no no no no okay
this was shiver it was a show called shiver um
and and andrew it was just you me and andrew
on that show for that script and i was Andrew
is a journalist and he is happily married, but
then he's been plagued by all kinds of funny
things that have been happening, all the bad
stuff that's been happening to him. And unbeknownst
to him, someone has been trying to mess up his
life. And then you walked into the picture. Now,
we were not together because our scenes were
never, we were never meant to be in any scene.
And you turned out to be the woman that... The
sexy lady, they walked in and into his life and
nothing actually happened. But his wife got upset
with him. And all the while, the guy that's been
messing his life up was his own boss, his editor,
and it's me. And I happen to be an alien. Oh
my goodness. Planted on the planet to see how
we can mess human beings' lives up. No wonder
it was only for one season, right? Is that a
storyline? That was a storyline. You know, I
usually would just be asked to do something and
I had to do it because it's all part of the...
You had to sashay across the camera. Did I do
that? Yes. Was this at Ballestier Road? Kim Tian
mentioned some house there. I was not with you
for your scene because we never had a scene together.
But when we saw the final cut, right, when it
was released, I said, oh yeah, this is Suzanne
Walker just walking past the cameras and looking
like, hmm, looking at Andrew like, hmm. Yeah,
you know, I had to do a lot of these things because
it's part of the job, right? So I would just
go like, okay, what do you want me to do? And
then, okay, do this. But I wouldn't actually
know the whole script. Yeah, but I was thinking
to myself, sharks, what the hell? I miss the
love goddess. I think I remember that day. It
was a very long day. And I think I shot in this
little apartment in Kim Tian, I think somewhere
around Ballastier. And it went on late into the
night. It was one of those old walkout apartments.
Some of these things, sometimes a short little
scene can take hours. It would take hours. And
that's the reason why I just realized, I mean,
hats off to people who make a career in television,
but those hours are long. It's crazy, man. And
the kind of energy you need, it's just like,
it's not the kind of energy. that even I think
good DJs have. I remember when I was on the set
of Triple Nine, I was also, I'm always a villain.
You look the part, Chris. Look at me, man. Look
at this bloody face of mine. No, but it's a strange
thing that you never went into. TV or radio full
time. I know him as someone who's like gone on
and did something in the corporate world. But
now I just hear that you were actually dabbling
behind the scenes and doing a bit of pieces here
and there on radio and TV. But how come it never
panned out? I have no idea, man. I mean, you
know, I went for fame awards. My goodness. That's
like back in the 1990s, right? Yeah, yeah. And
you know, back then when I had an ass. And I
wasn't too bad, man, you know. And I didn't make
it through. And after which, I mean, I told this
story to everybody this season. Actually, I had
a place on radio and for some funny, you know,
circumstances came in and I didn't. and misunderstanding,
miscommunication, and I didn't manage to go in.
That's so unfortunate. So I pursued a completely
different route and I went into the financial
sector. Okay, I'm not going to really dwell so
much on that because nowadays you talk about
these things, you need to get permission, you
know what I'm saying? So I'm not really going
to talk so much about that. But you had an opportunity
a long time ago. I did, I did. And for those
who want to find out more, go and watch that
episode that I had with Flying Dutchman, okay?
I talked about that story there. But did you
have to go through lots of interviews and voice
tests too? No, man, there wasn't a need. Really?
I went through four interviews. I didn't have
to. I was like, you, you're coming on. Wow. You
know, yeah. And that was how fantastic it was
for me back then. I was so overjoyed because
that's all I wanted to do in my life. Everything
I've ever wanted was just that. But I suppose,
you know, being staunchly Catholic, I would say
that God has his ways and he works in mysterious
ways. And look, you're a famous podcaster now.
I'm not famous. No, I just want to say radio
has changed. Okay, I'm sorry you missed that
opportunity then. Yes, radio was at its heydays.
You know, it was before TV caught up. So everyone
was listening to the radio and it was so exciting
to be a radio DJ. But I was just listening to
the BBC the other day and all of them just talking
about the podcast they're listening to. And like
people now, they listen to podcasts before they
go to bed or help them go to bed or before they
go to bed. Or commuting. It's the same thing
that people would say about radio, right? I would
drive and listen to the radio. Before I go to
bed, Suzanne, I'll listen to you on the radio.
But these days, it's all about podcasts. So I
think you're just taking, you know, you're now
in radio, but a new generation of radio. I suppose
so because Mediacorp put me through, back then
it was called TCS. Put me through two months
of training with, I don't know if you remember
names like Cynthia Rosenfeld. No. This lady and
her husband were contracted to train actors in
Mediacorp, TCS back then. And these were the
people who trained Kirstie Addy, Ted Danson for
Cheers. Oh. Yeah. And I was with a whole group
of people. Pardon me, but I think there's no
harm in mentioning who these people are. Andrea
D 'Cruz. We were the same batch. Oh. Yeah. And
that was the reason why after that I got all
the major role stuff that came in. Triple Nine,
The Alien and Shiver, PCK. Oh. Yeah. And two
months of training. Every week I was in Caldecott.
And it was like actor training. Actor training,
yeah. Oh, I think that's great. I don't even
know if they have that still, right? I don't
know. But I went through that. And then after
that, my Elvis show. Okay. Okay. I do very good
Elvis. And it was featured on Channel 8 as one
of two features in this program called 车轮杂志,
which was a very, very popular program. Channel
8 viewers homes so you gave up your dream about
radio and you moved into television no I mean
what's the next best thing no no no I didn't
move into television I was acting major role
just for major role acting not full time nothing
like that so when they got a role they cast and
they think I think this guy can do this one this
role and just call him up my goodness you spent
all your free time probably at Caldecott Earning
very little, but just enjoying life. Yeah, you
know, they never paid, but everyone did it for
passion. Yeah, I mean, I did it for experience.
I did it to learn. And I think I learned quite
a bit, which... Turned out to be a good thing
for me because I do a lot of live shows. I do
a lot of D &Ds and all kinds of stuff. Yeah,
I don't know how you can do it. I mean, hats
off. I mean, that's the reason why I wasn't...
It's been 40 years doing it. Yeah, you're still
doing it. And hats off. A lot of people still
like to do MC work. I'm a terrible host. I just
MC'd an amazing show two nights ago for a wedding
of two musicians. They got married and they're
fantastically talented. Half the ballroom was
filled with seasoned musicians. Yuzos, man. It
was heaven. If you have a crowd like that, yes,
it's easy to host. But if you have a very serious
corporate crowd... It all depends on what the
program calls for. I mean, the end justifies
the means, right? You begin with the end in mind.
So if they want it to be fun, then okay. Then
you have to expect the crowd to be... Hello,
this is a Singaporean audience, man. Singaporeans
are awkward that way. You got to put a pause
sign there for people to clap. But I don't do
that. I say, hello. Take your left hand. take
your right hand, put together, go faster again.
This is called clap, clap, clap your clap. And
that's the reason why everyone thinks it's easy
work. It's not. It's hard work. It's not. But
if I may leave, but this is a mantra I started
and I think a lot of MCs are using that now because
FD and I had the MC Academy by the Flying Dutchman.
We taught for seven years and this is original
to me. I told FD on that when he came here that,
bro, don't say that. That one is copyrighted
to me, man. That's my baby. I said that. Spit
it out. we're the glue that bind the glitter.
We're not the glitter. As long as we remember
we're the glue. And we always have objective
in mind and just keep the program hyped. Yes.
And we keep going on and on and on. Don't let
the program, the hype drop. And it can be so
exhausting at the end of the night. And then
you're so hyped up, you can't really go to bed.
So you have to like stay up and then it's like
2 a .m. and you're still up. It's almost the
same thing as what you did before as a love goddess,
right? If I want to ask you, hey, The stories,
you told me NS men will queue up at a public
phone and they'll call you up and leave dedications.
I mean, you must have heard so many stories.
I also remember there were a couple of occasions
where you got upset with some things when a lady
calls up, especially the women, when they call
up and they tell you some cockamamie, not cockamamie,
not bullshit, but some cockamamie stupid shit
that their other half, husband, boyfriend, would
have said or done to them. And then you go absolutely
ballistic. Okay, well. I remember those times.
There were times like that. I don't. Moments
like that. Really? Yeah. Okay, then it was just
me being my authentic self, which, yeah, I felt
like, I mean, sometimes people said that was
bad because like, I was too real at times, you
know, but I guess today, this is so important,
right? Being your authentic self now, you know,
but yeah, I would. But the funny thing is I never
got a complaint. I used to sometimes leave the
program thinking, oh no, someone's going to call
and complain about what I said. But no, actually,
what I remember, Chris, are actually very lonely
people who called me up later on in the night.
The show would run until 2 a .m. So around 1
a .m. Usually, I mean, the calls would slow down.
And the ones that I pick up sometimes are women
who actually are not sleeping and whose husbands
are not home. And you know what the husband is
doing, having an affair. And she just wants to
talk to me because she's put the kids to bed
and she's just sitting there wondering what her
life has come to. I remember this lady and she
would just tell me, I'm eating French. I cooked
French fries. I was listening to you. Now I've
cooked my French fries. I want to eat my French
fries, but I need to talk to someone. I remember
this lady very vividly till today. She called
me once or twice. And then another time a girl
was telling me she wanted. to you know jump and
stuff yeah so these were the calls I remember
wow yeah but if any girl called me and told me
my boyfriend's cheating on me but I still love
him yeah I think I will get ballistic I do that
even till today so don't be a silly girl yes
yeah but actually that show made me realize how
loneliness can really crack people up and I took
a few of these calls You know, I've encountered
some of those calls that you've had with some
of these people, which just goes to show how
hard I work in my life. You know, I come back
home late at night because I can listen to your
show. It's always in the car. Yeah, yeah, the
car. And of late, I've asked myself, because
I know that you're coming on my show today, right?
I actually asked myself, why? Why don't we have
this sort of shows anymore? Because I think it
really pays. It does a great service for people.
Well, I think everyone feels that it's not needed
anymore because there's Spotify, you know, you
can go on YouTube. No, no, it's not about that.
It's a person that talks about love. And show
someone how much you love that person. Call me
up. Tell me your story. It's still relevant to
this day. It will never go out of fashion. Yeah,
you know, actually, I feel that it's even...
probably going to be more of a success today.
Because back in the day, some of these youngsters
would only use the payphone and after three minutes,
you'll hear the beep, beep, beep. Another 10
cents, 10 cents. Put another 10 cents here. Now
they have their headphones and they can actually
finish the story for me. And they don't even
need to leave their real names too. Yeah, they
don't have to. Or they can even WhatsApp and
then I can call them up now. Before, it was really
just about phone lines coming through. You know
what? An idea just struck me. Hey Kai, remember?
what FD said about going live? Remember we go
live on a Saturday morning or something like
that? Remember what he said? Maybe we should
just do one where he called me. You should. Actually,
I've seen podcast programs where they're taking
calls as well. So you can do it. But you know
what's sad about that bit? As I also said to
FD before in that episode. Now look, if only...
you know we can do we we podcast can also do
music like a music station because copyrights
are always an issue uh and then play music and
then okay we're gonna play this song for your
dedication station you know and but it's digital
right like online i mean like this like this
show right but we can't do that the reason why
your show was a success in my mind was because
you take in dedications, you can play requests,
you can play all these lovely songs, you know,
and it's meaningful. So people feel that there's
a high touch to it. Yeah. And I just, I think
it's not accurate to say that giving someone
a dedicated song, it's not a big deal anymore.
I think it's... It's a big deal. It really comes
from the heart, that message, you know, and you
can hear it in the voice and people forget that
the audio can be so emotional. Yeah, exactly.
And now you have great sound systems. The voice
comes across even more dynamic and intense. How
long were you... I was there for that program
from 1993 to early 1996. Yeah. Then I went to
Power 98. And then my last stint was with SPH
Radio from the time they bought over WKRC to
when it went to SPH. They built the studio in
SPH. And then in 2009, I just said, I think that's
enough. I mean, radio never paid well, okay?
I just want to be clear. If you really wanted
to make money in radio, you had to do a lot of
hosting MC gigs. And it was not my thing because
it's very tiring. You can't give your all. on
radio and then give your all in a night at an
MC gig you just can't so it's either one or the
other and I actually chose to focus on radio
and I just decided that okay in 2009 it's time
to look at you know building up my cpf so i can
get my flag these are serious things for every
singaporean and and i'm sure everyone's happy
to hear that i have managed to actually build
up my cpf so it's it's been it's been good for
me but but i spent a good part of my life just
doing what i love and i have no regrets and after
radio Where do you go? I joined the civil service
and I was an information officer for 11 years
and it was completely different. And I had to
really leave my radio career, my radio persona
behind and then move on to be. A civil servant.
How was that for you? I mean, how do you feel
about that? I mean, you know, you spent years,
years being that personality on the air. Then
suddenly you're a civil servant and suddenly
there are rules to follow. Yeah, real rules.
I remember the first time I wrote a submission
and then they said like, you can't use I, you
have to use we because, and that kind of gives
you an indication that in the civil service,
it's not about you. You just have to take a back
seat. even my voice had to take a back seat because,
you know, you're doing government work. And a
lot of people were just surprised that I lasted
so long. Many people just told me, maybe after
two years, you'll come running back to radio.
But I stuck around. But I think 11 years is long
enough. Why did you stick around? I mean, did
you really start to enjoy it? it was a different
world altogether and that's what I appreciated
and I thought I was doing something for Singapore
you know just like for radio you're doing it
for your listeners you know I mean back in the
old days I don't know what the thinking is right
now but when I joined the civil service it was
to serve Singapore I mean it's a calling right
so I always thought like I'm doing this for the
nation. We are just supporting the government
of the day and we're doing what we need to do.
And the end product is it's supposed to help
the nation. But in time, it becomes a job. So
after a while, you just have to be realistic
and just say, okay. So what did you do specifically?
I mean, where were you? You get posted everywhere.
The Ministry of Manpower, Enterprise Singapore,
National Youth Council Singapore, and then even
the National Research Foundation. So you get
posted everywhere. But you attained eventually
in the civil service a senior leadership role,
right? Yeah, but I mean... Was it relief, fear
or excitement when you decided to, I mean, when
you got that position? It just meant more work.
But you left radio after so long. You went into
civil service. You took it on as a national service,
right? To serve your nation and the government
in the day. And then you got into a senior leadership
position. I mean, did you ever expect that? No,
I didn't. And I don't think I was cut out to
be in that position. To be honest, because as
you get high up in the civil service, you know,
it's a different ballgame altogether. It's real
serious work, you know, and you support the government
of day and doing communications work that supports
the priorities at a national level. And it really
made me question. And of course, the hours are
long. And it really made me question whether
this is really what I want to do, because do
I really want to climb even higher and take on
that added stress? But I have to say some of
these postings. changed me okay i was at enterprise
singapore and i worked there during covid and
oh how we worked so hard to to let everyone know
that singapore was still open for business it
was necessary for our country because we must
have trade this was just recent covid yeah covid
and and The work, you know, I realized that there
was meaning and value. Then I was posted to the
National Youth Council. And I have to say that
really changed my perspective because I worked
with so many young people. And you know what?
They questioned me. They asked me, is this your
passion? You know, now Gen Z, Gen Millennial.
They would just say, is this what you're passionate
about? Now you should do work that you're passionate
about. They actually made me question. what I
was doing. And then I said, well, aren't you
doing something that maybe you don't have passion
about? But then they said, yes, but I have a
side hustle. And my side hustle is my passion
project. So even though I don't... I don't make
a living with what I'm passionate about. At least
I have a side hustle and that keeps me sane and
keeps a balance in my life. And how about you,
Suzanne? So they were so pointed and they asked
me these questions and I realized times are changing.
Now it's not like your parents' time where you
work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work,
work and save money and then you're doing you're
on the right track. And I think what they tried
to convince me, and I was convinced, was that
you also need to do things that are meaningful
to you, that gives you happiness, you know, even
if your day job doesn't. And that's when I realized
that, okay, maybe it's time to look around to
see what else, you know, I can do that gives
me the bliss. Wait, hang on. So these young people
actually were the catalyst. for you to take that
plunge to leave. You left, right? Yes, I left.
They were the ones that planted the seed. Nowadays,
I tell you, Chris, youngsters just don't go,
I want to get a job. I want to get this job and
that's it. I'm going to work there for the next
30 years. They're like, five years is good enough
and let's see what's next. It's so funny, you
know, just to echo what my dear friend Adrian
Chu, the career strategist, always says that
Back in our day, employers will look at your
CV, your resume and say, wow, you're a very loyal
person. You've been with this company for so
long and people like you for that. Employers,
it's a plus point, you know. But these days,
if you don't have too many things on your resume,
they frown. Exactly. They'd rather have you have
more sets of experience, moving around from company
to company to company, taking different positions,
rather than seeing you being loyal to one. But
that's what they were telling me. And I was like,
but I thought I'm being loyal, right? They said...
But then are you passionate in what you're doing,
right? So they asked these really pointed questions
and it got me thinking. And I see how happy they
are, you know, like they love photography. Some
of them will work Monday to Friday and on Saturdays,
they're wedding photographers and it gives them
so much joy to get out there, you know. They
spend the whole day taking photos and making
people happy and then showing me their Instagram
feed and all the photos that they've done. Others
just love to cook, you know. So how long have
you left your full -time job? I left in October.
So it's just been a while. So from then to now,
have these young people proven themselves right?
I'm happy. I just got a text today asking me
how I'm doing. But I'm happy. I think 11 years
in a job is long enough. And I'm okay. I thought
maybe I should be busy. I mean, I still sleep
with my phone. Now I realize just this morning,
I don't have to sleep with my phone. I can just
leave it on the desk charging overnight. I would
have thought that this decision to leave your
full -time civil service job was because years
ago, someone said to you about being true to
oneself, the late Chris Ho. I thought he would
have been the catalyst for you. To make that
decision. Yeah, he said this to you, didn't he?
Being true to oneself. Yeah, he did. And I think
what happened was Chris came to me during SARS.
And SARS during that time... Those who lived
through SARS would know that it was very tough.
It was not like COVID where the government gave
you money and you could like tie through, right?
SARS, my goodness, contracts were pulled, everyone
lost their jobs. SARS was a different ballgame.
Sorry, businesses are just going under. Sorry,
you just have to deal with it. But the thing
about SARS was that there were many people who
were unemployed. And so we all hung out together.
And Chris Ho at that time was starting a new
band, a concept band. And he asked me to be Susu
Law, this alter ego. And I was just telling him,
oh, maybe I shouldn't do this. I should be focused
on finding a job. How can I just like use my
time unemployed to get into a band and do all
these crazy things with you, Chris? And he was
like. No, that's the thing about Singapore. They
expect you to be productive all the time. They
expect you to do the right thing. And if you
use this time to join a band, then they think
that you're not being useful when you should
be useful going out there, sending out applications,
trying to get a job, when realistically, what
are the chances of you getting a job at this
point? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then he said, like,
be true to yourself. What do you want? Like,
you know, don't feel bad because you're not doing
what everyone expects you to do, right? Well,
he's like that too. I mean, he's, how would I
describe Chris Ho? He's a rebel. Yeah, he's a
rebel. He's a rebel. He's crazy too. Yeah, you
know, and that guy would just go against the
norm anyway. Yeah. So, I mean. He made a lot
of sense and said, is this what you want to do?
And I realized it was great. It was a great outlet
because I, like many people, were angry. We had
lost our jobs. We had nothing to do. We're just
like, when is this going to end? We had to ride
it through, right? And, you know, it affected
our professional and personal lives as well.
I mean, the angst, that anger, the rebellion
that I was feeling, which Chris brought out,
it was great. It was great to channel it in that
band. And, you know, in fact, now that I have
left, it's not painful. Everyone thinks it's
painful, right? But during that time at SARS
and what happened and what Chris shared with
me, it helps me now because I use that same lesson,
right? Why must change be bad? Change can be
good. What makes you think it's going to be worse
just because you've left your job in the civil
service? Of course, everyone thinks it's very
bad. I can tell you that. But it can be good.
Is this your life purpose to be in the civil
service? It could be something else. Why do you
think there's no other options for you? How could
you close yourself off to opportunities that
the universe is waiting to present to you? And
I know this is very airy -fairy, but it's very
Chris Ho, right? And this is the same thoughts
that play with me now at this age, I think 20
years after. yeah after that that time yeah i
mean i see where he's coming from i mean certain
certainly as years go by some of i mean most
of us i hope you know we get struck by a few
epiphanies in life don't we yes right like you
know screw this man stop about and go running
around chasing after chasing after some cheese
yeah i mean like realistically what do you want
out of life you know so I mean, a lot of these
things, it's okay. It wasn't just the people
I worked with at the National Youth Council,
but it was, of course, in the past what has happened.
And it just made me realize, like, I remember
some of these conversations I had in the office.
And I went back and as I was traveling home and
I thought about it. And these things actually
set things in motion for me, you know, and made
me just realize. okay, I mean, everyone is putting
a lot of pressure on you because, you know, you're
at the senior level and you're like quite old
already and honestly want to leave and like start
anew. I'm like, what's wrong with that? Yeah,
yeah. When you started your podcast, Women Talking.
Yeah, yeah. Did it happen? Did that start whilst
you were still working in the civil service or
after you've left? Well, I was still there. I
just started it. And I did it because I was a
bit tired. Because, you know, when you do government
comms, they're very broad, right? Very broad.
And this is all for the nation. And yeah, these
are the priorities. But I feel that, you know,
I'm from a radio background where people's stories
are usually where the gems are, correct? And
I think it was a part of me that missed that.
And I also, at a certain age, when you're past
45, you realize many of your women friends have
gone through amazing, amazing journeys. And yet
no one recognizes them. Yeah. And Singapore rewards
you if you're a millionaire or billionaire or
you are a CEO or you're very good in the stock
market or you got recognized overseas and you
won a Grammy Award. But the validation comes
with these external recognition. But many women
in their personal lives have really triumphed
over great obstacles. So I thought, okay, I want
to talk about these women and I want them to
share their stories. And I think I wanted to
present something a bit more authentic. And I
just thought it was lacking. And that's why it
went there. But when you started this as a hobby,
right? Yeah. And it still is a hobby. Yeah, it
still is. to you I just can't imagine how good
you are with marketing you got your act together
you got a great set you know Kai what marketing
you know it's just like oh Adobe Audition okay
how do you increase volume but it reminds me
of my early days you know in radio when when
we had to do our own production, there were no
producers before. So it brought me back maybe
30 years to my first time in radio doing my own
produced work for love songs. And I'm just happy
now with AI. A lot of things are not easy. Oh,
hell yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But of course, I
still go through the old fashioned way to remove
clicks. You know, I can even go into a waveform
and just extract that click. Yeah, yeah. I mean,
yeah, sure. You know, but I mean, sure. I mean,
okay. You know, I never have been on radio, right?
Always been on stage. And I'm just the guy with
a microphone doing my shows. But you're great
at it. Well, at 50 years, well, not 50 years
old. Was I 50 then? Okay, 52, 53. When I left
that last show and I had this itch that just
needed a scratch because I really enjoyed it
so much doing a podcast. And, well. This is what
you see here. Prior to us even starting, was
two years of waiting and planning and it fell
on my lap. Because when we bought this house
and I never thought of it, my wife, while we
were having the design chats with our IDs, said,
okay, so where can I build a studio? And I looked
at her, what? I said, yeah, you want a studio,
right? Because I teach as well. So it's this
purpose as well. I said, I mean, yeah, you know,
I would love to have a studio. Then, okay, we
build a studio. And this space you see here was
empty space. So really it was built, purpose
built. And I said, okay, there's no turning back
now. So we built the space and then. I didn't
know anything about audio engineering. I didn't
know anything about video editing. I didn't know
anything about design. And I learned it all off
YouTube. Yeah, I mean, and it's painful and it
can be long. No, but I kind of enjoyed it. But
I'm sure there were some like glitches along
the way. Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. When you
lose something or recording. And of course, along
with that, what's the branding going to be like,
you know? what's your vertical? And I realized
that I'm the kind of guy that just can't stick
to one. You know what I mean? Everybody seems
like, okay, let's do the Hantu stories. No, those
are very popular. They were very popular during
COVID. Which is why I don't want to do it. Yeah,
and people are still doing it. Yeah, I don't
like to do the Hantu stories because in Asia,
everyone talks about Hantu. That's how we started
the UFO series. Are there UFO stories in Singapore?
Oh, yeah. You'd be shocked, man. I think I'll
see a ghost before UFO. I don't even know where's
the hotspot in Singapore for UFO sightings. Did
you do a series on this? I have one episode at
least every season. We're shooting this in a
couple of weeks. And we bring the news about
what's been going on worldwide about the UFO
phenomenon, which is now called UAPs now. It's
in US Congress. What does UAP stand for? the
two things it stands for unidentified aerial
phenomenon phenomena or unidentified anomalous
phenomena because it's not just not aerial they're
also underwater oh yeah the old name is called
USO unidentified submerged object and now Congress
the US Congress have admitted that they've known
of five underground undersea bases alien bases
Oh, sorry. I didn't know about that. I just know
about the Russian -trained beluga whale, right?
That's a huge social media sensation. Oh, yeah,
yeah. Kavya, right. Yeah, so we had to decide
what we're going to do. Then I have this passion
for entertainers, for musicians, and for any
enabler for the music and nightlife industry
in Singapore. And then we decided let's do a
tribute show too. Because so many things I want
to do. No, I quite like that. I think recently
you had that concert, Don't Write Us Off. And
I think that was so nice. You know, it's just
like, it just captures what I think a lot of
people feel in Singapore and this aging society.
Don't write us off. It's always about the youngsters.
Don't worry, we'll take care of you. We'll get
your career going. We'll give you a nice HDB
flat. But those who are 55, 60 and, you know,
just, Many of them are lost, you know, and I've
been to a few support groups recently. And I
think there's like one is called the caring chapter
or something like that. And I've spoken to some,
especially men, I feel they have a hard time
actually trying to navigate this space that they're
in where they're not, then they don't have a
job and they don't know what they're going to
do next. And they know that they have a good
20 years in this. in this lifetime. A couple
more laps around the sun still. And they still
don't know what they want to do. Or they just
feel no one's giving them a job. Look at me,
man. I wanted to... No, you got your act together.
No, you got to go... Oh, sorry. It's called The
Courage Chapter. I've gone for two of their sessions
and I feel very terrible. I don't know why I
feel that men take it worse. I guess maybe they
feel very... Funny you should mention that now
because my next question was is... was going
to be yeah women talking sexist this one how
about men I mean don't the men get it too I mean
men talking too I mean like you just said as
you just said look at these guys you know and
we've got pride you know when you when people
think that all the young people will take care
of you What makes you think we want you to take
care of us? We still want to find that independence,
the need to still be able to be economically
viable. You know what I mean? And be able to
still grow ourselves from the craft that we got
good at doing. Yeah, but you know, jobs are finite
in Singapore, right? So I can see how the priority
may want to go to the younger person because
they have to build up their livelihoods and their
families. Well, I mean, we're all... Where the
economy is concerned and where commercialism
is concerned, everyone will be targeting the
younger audience for sure. You can't change that.
When we were younger, it was the same for us.
But this is what I feel. I think, you know, I
mean, come on, people. I mean, the older we get,
right, find something. Really go to do that thing
you love and get really good at it because we
still can. You know, and keep yourself active.
Yeah, because at that event, like Don't Write
Us Off, I remember you brought up Larry Lai and
he must be in like close to like in his 90s.
85. 85. I thought he was like, okay, I thought
he was 90 years old. And I'm just thinking, oh
my goodness, from like 50, mid 50s to 90, like
what are people doing? Yeah, yeah. And he's still
sharp as hell, you know. The man's brain is like
an axe. It's still so sharp. He didn't slow down
up here. I just know you got emotional at that
event because of Larry Lai. But I was also thinking,
how about this cohort of people, right? What
are they doing? And when I attended the Courage
chapter and I just saw these men talk about how
they have not been successful trying to secure
even part -time work, I just feel really terrible.
It's not like just because you're like 60, you
have to become a security guard, right? And I
think it's hard for them to swallow, particularly
if they help very senior people. and then they
move on to be a security guard. It's just hard
for them to accept that. But for women, I'm actually
fine. I mean, women are more resilient than we
guys. I admit to that. I admit to it. My wife
is five, ten times stronger than me. I mean,
she's an ace, man. She's doing so much. She's
a savvy businesswoman. She's a mover shaker.
She is. She's really bright. I'm proud of her.
I'm proud to have her as my wife. I'm saying
it. But again, back to the point. So women, women
talking, are you going to do something for men?
Well, I did put on a male caregiver, Elvin Tan,
and he talked about... Oh, Elvin. Yeah, he actually
single -handedly cares for his mother who has
dementia. And I think it's amazing. And he talked
about the sacrifices that he's made and how he
views caregiving. He sees it as joy, as duty,
and he derives joy out of the duty, even though
it comes with sacrifices. So I quite like that.
But at this point, I want to focus on women because
really, I just... I just, okay, I don't want
to come across as like, Yes. I just don't seem
to get men very well. I mean, like, listen, my
marriage didn't work out and I find it very hard
to date. I was like, Hello, you can always invite
me on your show. It just all depends on your
topic, right? Yeah, it's like, you know. I can
get in touch with my female side. Don't worry
about it. And I also don't think men are willing
to share so much. Like, you know, like, I don't
think men will go down all the way to talk about
all these, like, personal issues that they have
to overcome. I feel so damn insulted, man. Damn
it. I mean, would you? Chris, would you want
to do that? Ask away. I am here. Bring your show
on my show, Ask Away. Would you, okay. Well,
I was thinking, well, we had a cancer series
because it was breast cancer. Okay. I mean, be
fair, man. Okay. But for you, I can just ask
you this. Sure, sure. Do you feel a lot of angst
and maybe, okay, regret or? that you never had
an opportunity to fulfill your wish to be a radio
team? All the time. And how have you taken it
out? And how have you exercised it? I have never
exercised it. I will say this again, and I've
said it before quite openly. I will take this
to my grave. It will be a regret that I will
live until I'm, I said nine feet, I've decorated
six feet, so look at my size, it has to be nine
feet. Nine feet underground. And so to actually
work out the loss that you feel, you continue
to be an emcee. And maybe this is the reason
why you became a podcaster. This is the reason
why I became a podcaster. And do you always feel
as though every podcast you do, you feel you
need the validation from people who are former
radio DJs? How do you see us? Actually, that's
an interesting question. You know, let me just.
feel about it not think about that yeah feel
you gotta feel actually you're right I would
say I would dare say 70 % of the time yeah I
don't ask directly but yeah it is kind of a validation
for me but you want that validation I want the
validation yes I do and you know you want probably
the radio station was a Mediacorp radio station.
So you want even validation from Mediacorp. I've,
I've, I've come to a point where I've accepted
the fact that for some funny, strange reason,
whatever it could be, they didn't call me back,
you know, it's fine, you know, and, and I've,
I think I've come to a point where I go, it's
got to be deeper than, than, than we don't just,
you know, we just want to get back to people
we know. You know, people that we're used to,
that we don't need any screw up. So you're too
new. You know, that could be one reason for me
not to be put on. So I've come to a point where,
okay, fine, you need me, call me. You know, I'm
already 55. Do I really think that people will
want me at this stage of my life? Maybe not.
So what do I do? I focus here. Build this. But
you're hurt that they haven't called you back.
Of course, I'm only human. I would say I was
hurt. I was hurt, but not very hurt. I was hurt,
hurt, you know, at that time, at that point.
Today, there will always be this little tinge
of hurt that's left behind because I've not got
it. You know something, Suzanne? Let's put it
this way. If I ever get a chance to get on air,
on my own show, for one shift, four hours, and
I don't go back and do it anymore, I would have
a smile on my face. I would have felt fulfilled.
I would have felt that at least I got that. Yeah,
but Chris, maybe they can feel it and they know
it and maybe they feel that you're not a fit.
It could be anything. I don't see why I cannot
be a fit because after so many years of doing
so many different things, live shows, I mean
this, being able to be so pliable and flexible
and adaptable to so many situations where programs
and shows are concerned. And with my experience,
I can fit anywhere. That's to answer what you
said. You know, I am a fit. I can be a fit. And
you give me a mic. I'm a fit. But OK, there could
be also another reason. They're just slow. They're
slow. You're not the only one to use that reason.
They're slow. Someone said, oh, maybe some people
just don't know how to reject others. I'm crying
out loud. All you have to do is say, sorry, Chris,
not now. You know, not this time. I'm fine. I'll
be fine with that. Just drop a note and say,
you know, Chris, maybe not this time, but we
will keep you in mind. That's it. Done. I'm good.
Yeah, well, I can just say that in the government,
we always respond. We have a three -day turnaround
to respond. There you go. I just want to say
that, you know, at least the Singapore government
got their act together. In terms of responding.
I hear you. In terms of responding to public
query. I will not say any more than that, but
y 'all can say, Suzanne, I hear you. Okay. I
mean, wow. 11 years, really. You can see it coming
out, right? No, but it's drilled in us that we
do have to respond. And everyone knows that there
should be a reasonable time when you must get
back to somebody. So you see, not all men...
Have I answered you in a fashion that... perhaps
you would accept that guys can get in touch with
their softer selves and talk about it? Well,
I was thinking when you said like fit, I'm a
fit, you know, like most girls would just say,
maybe I'm not a fit, you know? Let's say for
example, if a girl or a lady would say something
like that, and I hear it, I would just say, listen,
I think anyone can be a fit if they just work
hard at being a fit. It's not going to be a problem.
And don't go like defeatist and stuff. I'm not
saying that, look, listen, you can ask me some
stuff and if I feel like I really can't do it,
I'll say I can't do it. This is not about being
male or female. It's not a gender bias thing.
It's about, it's a characteristic and my personality.
Also, I don't think a woman will hold on to this
dream for so long. Do you think so? I think women
are just so much more practical. No, I know some,
I have some female friends who still hold on
to. quite a number of things that they've never
let go. I think it's a human thing. It's not
about gender again. It's not about being male
or female. I just feel as though you've become
this little Chris when you talk about this missed
opportunity to get back on radio. I am little
Chris anytime because I'm still a Toys R Us kid.
It just feels like it becomes like little Chris,
you know. But I don't see this in women. They
don't become little again. They talk about...
Are you kidding me? Yeah, I just don't. Why are
women always talking to me different? They're
talking to me like little girls all the time.
Maybe because they want you to protect them.
The dynamics of male and female comes through.
So it's not about a gender thing. It's a human
thing. Yeah, okay. It's a human thing. But my
podcast is specifically about what they have
managed to overcome. So it's usually about health
concern, personal... that they had to undergo
or maybe a personal or a family dynamic that
they had to overcome. What I'm trying to do is
to convince you that, hey, look, sometimes you
should bring some men into the picture too. I'm
still not convinced. I just don't want to. Just
imagine if I had like, I was just thinking back
to what I said, like I was doing a cancer series
and I was just thinking, should I invite men?
But of course, I want to talk about prostate
cancer, right? Can you imagine how uncomfortable
that podcast is going to be? Why would it be
uncomfortable? Prostate cancer. Why would it
be uncomfortable? comfortable i've done i've
done i i mean i i've been involved not on a personal
level but you know in organ organizational level
uh where breast cancer is concerned i have even
typed out stuff you know to help my wife out
on mother's milk and his wonders yeah annotated
the whole darn thing and i am an advocate for
for mother's milk i even tell expectant mothers
about whatever you do just don't be stubborn
and not and lactate and thinking lactation is
easy and stuff like that this is when the messenger
becomes the issue right are you the right person
to to send that message but don't you think that
having a guy like me come on and talk to prospective
fathers that this is how you should support your
wife when she's trying to breastfeed okay yeah
that works out there you go I've done that. Well,
yeah, but... You see what I mean? It's not like
it can take up an entire 30 minutes in my podcast.
Like you can do a public service announcement.
Yeah, okay. Of course you can take up 30 minutes
in your podcast. No, no, no. Of course you can.
Ask AI to help you out in drafting your questions.
I just think it would be so boring. Like, you
know, it would be very pro -woman. Like, yeah,
you know, make sure that, you know, she feeds
the child breast milk. Breast milk is good. Blah,
blah, blah, blah. It gets a bit preachy. It gets
preachy. I know it gets preachy like as if I'm
mansplaining. Yeah, it's like, you know. How
can I be mansplaining? when it comes to a women's
thing. Okay, this is what I just want to avoid
because we're in an argument right now, right?
Like you're not backing down. I'm not arguing.
If you listen to my podcast, we're not having
this kind of conversation where you're trying
to push a point to me. It will never happen.
We will explore that emotion and then we'll move
on. Okay, women talking that you know you couldn't.
Women talking, the topics you talk about. Are
there things there you could never talk about
in your former role in the civil service? Do
you talk about these things on your show? Well,
I think in the civil service, I don't talk, right?
My opinion doesn't matter. But how does it feel
like to you? I mean, now that you have this opportunity
again to talk about things that you don't talk
in the civil service, and now that you've been
doing it, how does it feel for you? Well, I enjoy
it. I just enjoy it. I just never had a chance
to express myself and now I have that opportunity.
But I think what's more important that if you
look at my guest lineup, the people I kind of
know and I've never been... being in touch with
them because I've been so busy with my job. So
it's been great to actually reach out and for
them to share what they've gone through. Sometimes
we have a little cry. Sometimes we just laugh
hysterically. You know, it's been just great.
How do you approach the machinations for your,
for example, your recording? You mentioned Adobe
Audition, the editing, the planning, your schedule,
your production schedule for your podcast. Oh,
I can't say that. It'll make me look so, so lame
compared to you. No, please. I just can't. Do
you want me to tell you how? Yeah, I mean, from
one podcaster to another. Okay. I just actually
started. Okay. When I started in radio, we were
also very basic. You know, I was, I think I worked
on the first generation for Pro Tools. And then
later on in different radio stations, they had
different type of software. And it was very basic.
And I have to say my. my year for sound was developed
right because you know you listen to every click
and everything and it's actually me going in
and trimming the actual WAV file. And then later
on when I was with Chris, that's when I saw that
a lot of production tools have kind of gone more
sophisticated. And this time around, I realized
that AI has really changed a lot of the functional
capabilities many of these softwares have. And
what I've done is I've gone in to find out some
of, I played around with it actually, and I quite
enjoy it. But the actual setup for the recording,
actually, I wanted to do digital microphones
like what you have. But I realized because I
didn't have a studio, I had to use dynamic mics.
And I actually wanted the warmth feeling of radio.
And they use dynamic mics before. This is before
digital. So my recordings are in dynamic mics.
And it makes it easy. It means that it's not
so sensitive to sound. And I can set up anywhere,
which is what I want to do. Now, I hate to bring
in the gender issue again. For women, sometimes
they like to be comfortable. And they don't want
to be filmed or photographed as well, particularly
if they're talking about very personal things,
personal health, feminine issues and all that.
So I usually just find a place that's cozy, quiet.
I arrange to meet them. We have long chats. And
if they want to ask me personal questions, professional
questions, I share as well. Because when you
engage with women on a very deep level, I don't
want to appear one -sided. So I do a lot of prep
work before. And then if they're okay, whichever
venue we agree on, I do the setup. Two dynamic
mics, an Adobe Audition. I have a mixer board
and I just set it up. And I do the recording.
I let the recording run. Actually, the mics you're
seeing right now, these mics that we're using,
they're all dynamic. Are they dynamic? They are.
And when I first, for what you're doing for your
purpose, right? And especially if you're plugging
into a mixer board. Yes, into a mixer. Okay.
These are all dynamic. Okay. I just thought Cher
was, Cher, it's called Cher, right? Sure, yeah.
Okay, I know they're like... They're not condensers.
They're not condensers. They're not condensers.
They're dynamic. I have actually digital mics
and I bought them first and I tried them out
and I didn't quite like it. But when I listen
to many podcasts, I think they're using digital
mics. Yeah. Well, yeah. Kai, could you just bring
over the MV7i for me, please? Yeah, sure. Just
to share with you, okay? This is a digital mic,
but it's so pliable. It's right behind you. Yeah.
Thank you. This is something that could be up
your alley because this mic, as you can see,
it's an intelligent mic. It's an interface too.
So what does that mean? So basically you can
put two mics, this one mic, you can plug in another
mic into this mic and your two mics working without
having a mixer board. Oh. And then after that,
you can output. an input into your computer.
So into my Adobe Audition goes through in there.
Yeah, correct. Directly in. And then I can get
two mono recordings on the... Yes. Oh, I see.
Yeah. So this guy works really, really well.
And for those who get intimidated by microphones,
right? There's another one called the... Can
I have the move, please? It's charging right
behind you. Sure. This is one that you might
want to be interested in using. For those who
say they look at microphones and get freaked
out, for example. Yeah. So we got these Lavaliers.
they're called the move mic receiver kit too
oh these I've seen those yeah and you just clip
on and that's it yeah that's it just clip it
on And you're done. So I went to Suili. Yeah,
I went to Suili. And I just told them, really,
I don't like my digital mics. I don't like how
it's sounding. So they were the ones who said,
okay, we have these dynamic mics. But they're
not very popular. But actually, I think they
were telling me most musicians prefer dynamic
mics. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So they said, okay,
we have these two that's available. Yeah, well,
you know, I mean, I swear by sure. Sure. Yeah.
So if you. You want to know the brand of mine?
Yeah. Fender. Guitar. Guitar. Sold to me by a
guitarist at CD. I thought so. Fender's guitar.
He was telling me, no, this is good enough. It's
good enough. It's good enough. And for you to
try it out, especially if you're going to actually.
edit and then it's going to be processed and
it's going through Adobe Audition, it should
be good enough. If you decide to change, just
go to the SureShop online. Okay. It's pronounced
as Sure, right? S -H -U -R -E. SureShop .com.
Go there. Use my code. You can get some limited
merchandise. How much discount? I'm quite an
auntie these days. No discount. No discount,
but you got limited merchandise, you know, using
my code. But I swear by them, really. And all
this time, we've only been working on on short
microphones okay but yeah that's what I wanted
to capture really the warmth of the voice I wasn't
thinking of video actually but a lot of people
later on just said it has to go on video but
I only made that switch because I was speaking
to someone who was following the podcast, who
said that he doesn't have a Spotify subscription
and YouTube is the default place that he would
go to to listen to the podcast. So I said, okay,
then it makes sense for me to go to do video
and YouTube. There is an audience because you
can't expect everyone to have a Spotify subscription.
But if I'm not mistaken, even if you don't have
a subscription, you can always still go to different
podcast playlists. And nowadays with Spotify,
you have it on video as well. Yeah. So like us,
our show, we're on multiple platforms. Most of
those platforms are audio. The video platforms
would be YouTube, which is our primary platform
and Spotify video. So you can, and it's easy
to do. It's easy to work, easy to upload. But
I just had, I just completed. a video. I think
it was like 20 minutes and I tried to upload
it on Spotify because I think there's a clip
function, a tab, right? Clip, you can't, you
can't, you've got to upload a video. Clip is
clip. Yeah. Clip is a short one. These are the
short ones. So you have to upload the video instead.
So yeah. Just go back and have a look. How about
your thumbnail designs? they're really basic
they're all on canva i hate to sound so we're
on canva too unprofessional oh really yeah i
don't feel so bad everything everything we've
done uh everything we've done or been doing,
it's all been on camera. You know how the name
came about? I didn't even have the name handy.
It was the person that I interviewed for the
first time, So Chin. She was like, what's the
name? Oh, Ong So Chin. Yeah. She said, what's
the name of your podcast? I said, I really haven't
thought about it. Then she said, can you just
call it Women Talking? Because she was watching
this TV series or Netflix series called Women
Talking. And I said, okay, I'll just. Oh, this
is how it happened. Yeah. Because I wasn't going
to put in a lot of brain cells to come up with
a name. And then, and she gave me the idea. So
I said, okay. And it will be her name and my
name or my name and the guest name that carries
the show. That's how I see it. Right. Right.
So, so I said, okay, let's settle. Let's settle
on women talking. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, just to
clarify. Yeah. I never wanted to get into the
argument with you. It wasn't an argument anyway.
As far as I knew, it was an argument. There's
no argument, but it's just that it's just very
different when you talk to the guy because they
don't, they just want to insist on a point. Okay.
Okay. All right. Again, I was not trying to get
into the argument with you. No, I mean, I don't
see it that way, but you know. Okay, anyways,
so just to let you know, I mean, these are things
that you can consider, you know, because it seems
that you're really going really serious in your
podcast. So these are things that you can use.
Well, it's a good thing that you brought it up,
that whether I'm serious or not, I find that
it's a lot of work. And I find that the format,
because it's about women sharing a lot about
their personal journeys, it can be quite heavy.
And I find that editing these podcasts can be
quite draining for me. So, I mean, yeah, I am
serious into it, but I just, Well, you have managed
to last the course. So I don't know if I can
actually sustain it. I'm just concerned about
that. How long is your duration per episode on
average? Well, okay. This was also from some
feedback that I got. It started with long form,
about 30 minutes. And then a lot of people were
saying, I listened to it on the MRT, on the bus,
and my journey is like 10, 15 minutes. So, and
then it clicked, right? Okay, can we do it like
at that bite size? So it helps. And if they're
really interested, they'll come back for episode
two, which is. another 10 to 15 minutes right
and so I've broken it down to 10 to 15 minutes
and sometimes it can be two episodes per interviewee
or maybe three like my recent one. Right. Where
we are concerned, you can tell that we are definitely
long form. And our long form is not half an hour.
No, it's not. But that's the thing because I
think maybe your conversations are lighter. My
mind could be heavier and maybe people just can't
sustain for 30 minutes. But it's still something
I'm experimenting and I'm wrestling with and
I'm open. I mean, the good thing about podcasting
is you can change, right? Yeah, you can. But
we are stubborn about this. because first of
all, we don't want to be a party to having more
and more people suffering from ADHD. And there's
always this thing called the playback button.
You can always pause and come back and play back
again and continue on, you know. That's all fine.
I mean, it's going to be there forever. It's
going to be up there. It's loaded already. So
if you don't have the time to watch it, watch
it later. You want to continue, continue later,
you know. But I think it's an injustice to my
guests, my guests that I invite on the show and
just. just because of the production and just
go 15, 20 minutes. I, I rather to have that person
who took the trouble to come all the way down
to the studio and have a damn good conversation,
you know, rather than just, let's cut this short.
You know, I, I really don't, don't, I really
don't think that's very nice. I'd rather really
find out about the person and really have a nice
conversation rather than, that's why it's called
the Chris Hansen conversation rather than just,
you know, touch and go. And because the audience
wants it that way. I've got to think about the
guests too. And sometimes people have got stories
to tell. They've got so much stories to tell.
You know, yeah. Anyway, what's your take for
people balancing successful careers and passion
projects? What's the best piece of advice you've
received about protecting that hobby time? I
think it's about making time because there's
always an excuse not to do it. It was really
difficult to get started. Like, you know, what
I've been sharing with you, what I had to do,
even the how to get started, the equipment, I
mean, the guests and, you know, the theme, the
name, all these sort of things. If I didn't put
in the effort to get started, it would have never
happened. But your guests that you invite, they
got stories to tell too. Yeah. And do you think
that you have to create a safe environment? I
do. You know, so that they can feel comfortable.
Yeah, for women especially, you know, else they
wouldn't because, I mean, I hate to sound like
a feminist, but they spend years and maybe generations
learning to keep quiet, right? Right. So if you
want them to talk, you have to let them feel
safe and they have to trust you. That's why I'm
willing to give more and engage with them more
before we even... go into recording and they
can choose not to as well. I mean, like I was
sharing with you, I was speaking to another person
who asked me so many questions about my life
and then they still don't want to come on the
podcast and it's fine. It's fine. I come prepared
to let them know that it's never going to be
one -sided and I don't want it to become transactional
or make them feel that it's transactional, particularly
when they're sharing something that's so important
to them and that their loved ones are going to
hear about it. Yeah. Yeah. But what do you do?
I mean, let's just name you, maybe if it's a
couple of things, maybe one thing that you do
to make sure that your guest is comfortable.
I spend a lot of time with them before they come
to the recording. I mean, like I will have coffee
with them. I will have lunch with them. I will
let them pick the day, you know, it can be. maybe
two months down the road you know but they have
to be ready right they have to come committed
so a lot of background prep before the actual
recording yeah okay since your podcast isn't
your full -time job yet yeah it's not what is
your biggest dream or goal for women talking
over the next say one year i hope more women
will come on and then uh share just be candid,
you know, to find their voice and to say things.
I want, if they can be like you, right? Like,
you know, I think men just have it lucky. They
can say whatever they feel like and women just
can't. Okay. And I just want them to talk about
it, you know, like one example, caregiving. I
mean, to talk about what they had to go through
to caregiving and sacrifices. Most people are
not used to even articulating that, right? Like
they don't. I mean, to articulate that means
to come full on to what they've given up, what
they've sacrificed, what they have to come to
terms with and the pain that they have to go
through to be a caregiver. So a lot of them wouldn't
want to talk about it. So I hope. I hope women
can just talk about it to find their voice. And
if it's how they feel life is unfair and men
have it easier, just say it. It doesn't make
you a feminist. It just makes you you and your
opinion matters. And I just feel so many times
we don't give enough credence to women who do
so much. And I hope that's my goal. You know,
I don't need a minister to come on, you know.
I really don't need it. I'm not looking for that.
I'm looking for real women who just want to talk
about how their life was like, how maybe unfair
it was, how great it was, how lucky they were,
and to talk about how, and to show everyone,
even though they were not successful in terms
of what Singapore likes to label as successful,
they had actually overcome great, tremendous
challenges. And I feel we don't do enough of
that for women in Singapore. Am I getting very
emotional and passionate about this? No, please
say whatever is on your mind, your heart. I would
rather my guests talk. Just go ahead. I mean,
I've seen it so many times, you know, they just
like, you know, your mothers and your grandmothers
and your aunties, you know, just quietly sacrificing
their lives. And it's just, and then they go
away and no one remembers that, right? Why can't
I remember that? Why can't I remember that story
in my podcast? So what? If no one listens to
it, but one day someone will. Or the people who
matter will listen. And that matters more to
that person that I put on that podcast. Cool.
Thank you very much, really. I really wanted
to hear that. I mean, that's really cool, really.
Thank you. And yeah, I mean, I'm not sexist and
I agree. Yeah. So, I mean, I know you thought
I was like, I thought you were arguing with me.
Chris, you're not, you know, it's just that I
feel that you're not in a sense, but I think
you were just trying to push my buttons, but
I just wanted a space for women to know that
this is theirs. Okay. And why can't it be theirs?
And on my show, you heard what Susanna just said
about her show. And if she ever approaches you,
don't say no. No, people say no. And I just,
I just want to say, it's okay. I will come back
to you again. Don't worry. You can change your
mind with me. But, well, at least have a chat
with her first casually, not in front of the
camera, but don't say no immediately outright.
You know, and I think she's trying to do what,
she's trying to do something that's not easy
to do. Okay. Yeah. Can I also say this? Like,
I do not know if people actually look at the
number of followers you have. before they decide
to come on? I mean, it's not what I did. I don't
know. I don't ask that either. Yeah, okay. Because
sometimes I feel that people get a bit calculative
and they want to look at your followers and all
that before they make the decision. I never thought
about that. Really? Because if they make the
assessment whether I want to do this, because
I think people do maybe see things a bit transactionally
sometimes. But I just want to say that it's really
not about followers, right? It's like I say,
it's about... People who matter listening to
what that person shares about. And if it's just
one person, if it's your immediate family, hearing
your testimony and hearing your voice for the
first time that you never had a chance to, even
in the family environment, that is already worthwhile.
Yeah, yeah. You see, like I said earlier, I've
got several verticals, right? And the verticals
I've got, I still lobby and advocate for things
as well. For people like musicians, performers,
even authors and writers in our series, Ink Spill.
And we do all that. The fun ones would be the
UFO stories. And also jobs. People who made career
changes and took risks. Guys who were... really
not educated in the past, you know, before and
when they were younger and then they decided
to start a food business, right? I mean, stories
that people can share and tell, lessons people
can learn. And we're passionate about all these
things. And that's the reason why we have these
verticals, much like you. Your shows, you've
said a lot, the passion shines through. And yeah,
I mean, we all do these to advocate for things
that we believe in. Yeah, it's not easy because
I get very, I mean, like when you listen to these
stories, sometimes you just feel, oh, life is
so unfair. But I'm just happy that I have it
captured on audio on the podcast. And when I'm
editing it, it actually. motivates me. I said,
I got to make this perfect because, you know,
it's, it's something that they have agreed to,
to come on to talk about. It's just, I try to
make it as perfect as I can. And then, okay,
maybe. Because all of a sudden you're the custodian
of that story. Exactly. You know, and I feel
that sense of responsibility and I've never felt
such intense responsibility when I was in radio.
Right. Because I think we never got so heavily
into someone's life in radio when it took in
requests and dedications. Did you see my talking
points by chance? Why? Because throughout this
whole conversation, all the things you said are
flowing down exactly the same fashion of how
I planned it. Oh, okay. Because what you've just
said, which actually leads to this question,
my next question. The roles you've had in your
career, from the love goddess on radio to the
strategic director from government and the host
of Women Talking. Which of these roles do you
think is closest to who Suzanne Walker is? Okay,
it was what my son told me. He said, I'm so happy
you've done the podcast. It's you, mom. But can
you just hook up with Sheikh Haikal and talk
to him because you can be very funny as well.
Okay. And it was my son and a few of my very
close friends whom I've known for the past 20
years. And he said, oh, we're so happy that you're
doing the podcast. Yes, you know, it's not making
money, you know, you can't monetize it. It's
something that, you know, you spend a lot of
time doing and you do not know where it's going,
but does it matter? They feel that it's really
capturing me right now at this point in my life.
And I think when I was in radio, my true self
came out when I was in Power 98 and had the lunchtime
program because that was really about my personality.
And then we played some really crazy games and
Power was just very dynamic at that phase in
those years that I was on. So I would have to
say a lot of people said... True Suzanne came
out that time when she was in power and currently
now in my podcast. Okay. Last question. Okay.
One piece of encouragement you would give to
anyone watching or listening now who's just left
a demanding job and is trying to figure out what
an own next hobby should be. Yeah. What their
next hobby should be. Yeah. Trying to figure
it out. Trying to figure out what their next
hobby should be. They just left the job. You
know, they may be like you. And maybe even like
me at this stage in life. I think the first thing
is, which is, okay, now that you brought up Chris
Ho, is what Chris Ho taught me. And he's actually
a strong Buddhist. These are all Buddhist teachings.
It's not a religion. Caveat. It's just a way
of life. It was like, what was the job to you,
right? What was the job to you? And did you identify
with that job, which is about attachment, right?
And so the job had a place and it came during
a season of your life when you needed it. And
you've made a decision now to leave. And so you're
moving on to a different season in your life.
So your life was spent with that job. I hope
you don't identify with the job. When you move
on, you move on, you have to now look inward
to find who you are. And that's what I've been
doing. I've looked inward. I have removed what
people have said about me because yes, thank
you. You have said some good things. People have
said some bad things. Yes, I put them out there
and it has its space. But I've looked inward
to see. What makes me happy at this point in
my life? So the job is already out there. It's
over, right? You have to let go of that and find
out what you feel you never could fulfill in
the past years that you've been busy doing all
these other things for different people in that
season of your life and see whether you can explore
what you always wanted to do in this season.
Because this is about fulfilling what you could
not fulfill. That's the first thing. Secondly
is to find happiness. Okay. If you've managed
to sort out your finances and chances are, if
you do leave your job, you probably have some
idea of where your finances are going. So you
shouldn't be too fixated on that. You should
accept your life as it is now. So if you have
to maybe spend less, cut down, there's no shame
in it. It's fine. What you need to do is find
that happiness in that state that you're in right
now. And I have found it. I don't need to go
to a restaurant. I don't need to meet people
for coffee in an expensive place. I can actually
do Zoom calls with my friends or I can meet people
just at a park to talk about it, right? So during
this period, I realized that I wanted to reconnect
with women who I've always admired in my entire
life, but never had a chance to go deep into
what they did or how they managed to overcome
it or why they became what they did or have.
In that quiet space, when I look deep inside
me, I realize, yeah, I want to speak with these
women. I want to hear what they have to say.
And that's kind of helped me move towards podcasting.
And I hope all this makes sense to you, Chris,
as I'm sharing that. But if you feel lost, I
also want to say I have felt lost as well as
you navigate this change and transition. And
please be kind to yourself because no one else
is going to be kind to you if you don't, you
know, if you don't choose to be kind to yourself.
You cannot expect people to be kind to you. So
when you're in this phase, right, just make sure
you focus on you and put barriers on people who
are going to put you down, right? At your age,
I know you've already made very sensible decisions
with your life, so you can't go that wrong. But
now it's about protecting you and doing things
that you always wanted to do and doing things
that you know will make you happy and focus on
that and you never know what will happen. Thanks,
man. I mean, I appreciate you saying all that,
which brings to mind a story I heard yesterday.
I was with a friend. I hardly bump into him.
But when we do, we just talk for a couple of
minutes, you know, and he gives you some background,
yeah, to end the show. He lost his wife. a couple
of years ago. He's got two daughters. So sad.
Very sad, yeah. And he actually told me this.
He's got a dog at home now too. And he said that
when a person is about on the deathbed and you
know they're going to go and you love that person
so much, all you do on that remaining period
of time was to give the best you can to that
person that you love so much. And then he did.
And then now he says his dog is also on its last
throes of life and he's giving his best to his
dog. His two daughters, he raised well. He sends
them to school. By the time the spouse passed
away, took care of the daughters. One's a doctor
today and they live with him. One, I think, is
married. I think. And this one that lives with
him has just applied for her own accommodations.
She wants to move out on her own and be independent.
And he knows that he told me this, to quote him,
I know that time is coming and I don't know what
to do. For me to just send her to work every
day, it's not a chore. It still gives me something
to do. And he's an educated guy. He's a professional.
He's not that old. He's in his 60s. Late 60s.
And I go back home. I go to bed. After a while,
you get used to that person you love is no longer
on that bed with you. But you know you're going
to be left alone. Once she moves out, that time
is coming. I know that time is coming. What am
I going to do? I said to him, you golf, don't
you? Yeah, but there's only so much you can do
in golfing. I go for 200, I go to driving range
and I, you know, and I go at it 200 times and
I ache the next day. So it doesn't really help
because I'm not getting younger either, right?
And I'm retired. No one's going to hire me. And
he says, and all, and I told him, don't you realize
that all your life, You've been doing nothing
but care for others. He says, I realized that.
I just don't know how to love me. That's the
thing. And this man, throughout all these years
I've known him, has pride. He won't talk. But
with me, he opened up. And it was just the two
of us. And I said, you know, my friend, the first
thing you need to do now to give yourself purpose.
It's to love yourself. Until you find that, you
wouldn't know what to do. Right? And I had to
run for an appointment and I was running late
and I really felt so bad that I had to go and
leave him there. So I'm going to try and catch
up with this guy. But you know, I hear you. These
are... like this question I just asked you and
the answer you gave is quite similar to what
this guy is going through. You know, that there
comes a time in life, I think, for a lot of people
that, what are we going to do, man? You know,
you come to those crossroads and then all of
a sudden, family, kids left the roost and hopefully
think, you know, I mean, families will go through
that, certain tragedies and you're left alone.
And the question, even me, I'm asking myself
now at this stage of life, what are you going
to do, Chris? You know? Yeah, because I'm getting
older and I know that and I recognize that and
I acknowledge that, right? What are you going
to do? And that's why I am so happy doing this,
doing this podcast. And I also don't think it's
about the podcast. It's the connection that you
have, like what we've had in the past two hours.
And this kind of gives some validation and meaning
and it gives you a different perspective, right?
Yeah. I met so many people, so many stories.
Some enjoyable stories, some hilarious ones.
You know, it's been fantastic. I just thought
most of your podcast series are actually quite
funny. Especially when you talk to the nightlife
people, right? They always have all these stories
to share. Yeah, it's so funny. Hilarious people
I've got. But you know, nightlife back in the
80s and 90s was something. Now, it's like, oh,
it's boring. Boring. I mean, you know, I can
just tell you like I lived through Walla Walla,
you know. Oh, hell yeah. And I just want to share
one story with you if we can just, I can just
share this. Oh my God. You know, a lot of people
don't know like how funky Walla Walla was before
it became like the trending. KP's place, yeah.
Yeah, it was like now it's so trendy. But at
one point, a lot of people from the universities
and people living around Holland Village would
go to Walla Walla. Why? Because they had whole
garden and whole garden was dirt cheap. Yes,
that's it. And they had like one for one. And
they had a very great manager who allowed you
to call in your order if you're going to be late
before the one -for -one ended. Yes, yes, yes.
So I remember at Radio Empower 98, a few of them
used to call and say, we're coming over. I said,
okay, we want like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I said, okay, we'll save your one -for -one.
So they'll show up after nine. And then we'll
have one for one that will go on for the whole
night because we pre -booked. And a lot of people
would hang out there in slippers. And it was
just a funky, I used to cycle there and chuck
my bicycle. It's a neighborhood. Yeah. And if
there was only one payphone, it was the orange
payphone where you put in 10 cents, right? Yeah.
And I remember, I think it was one program director.
I can't remember the name. at 999 on my pager,
you know? And no one, I didn't see it until one.
That was how crazy we were. And I actually, they're
closed up and they will close up the Walla Walla
and we could still continue the party then. I
do not know if there was any breach in regulations,
but anyways, it was like a long time ago. And
I would say, oh my goodness, do I need to call
now? And what Walla Walla would do is they will
open up the door, pull out the payphone, plug
it in for me so I could use the payphone. It
was crazy. So, I mean, I hope you'll have someone
come in and talk about Walla Walla for you. Well,
KP did. And now that you jogged my memory too,
Walla Walla was very famous for their one -for
-one whole garden. Yeah, it was very famous.
And Johnny Walker, who brought in whole garden,
everyone thought I was his ex -wife or something,
used to hang out there. Unfortunately, he's passed
away. Number five. Yeah, it was like whole garden.
And there was also some... They were like so
rude. I remember my sister from the US came down
and she asked one of the waiters, oh, what's
your red wine? Because she's from the US, right?
It could have been a Merlot or Chablis or something.
And he said, it's red. And she said, what's your,
so what's your red wine? I said, it's red. I
said, what's your red? I said, I think I saw,
I told my sister, Lena, I think. He just knows
it's red. And he said, yes, it's red. That was
Walla Walla. And my sister till today can tell
me that story. Yeah. And famously, jive talking
started there. Oh, I didn't know. I didn't know
about that. Yeah. Yeah. I had KP on the show
and we were talking about Walla Walla, but I
forgot all about that. the whole garden yeah
it was the whole garden you know that's what
they were really famous for everyone was drinking
the whole garden it was cheap it was easy and
it was just this big pipe And it was like in
the neighborhood, you just show up in your slippers.
I'll chuck my bicycle on the side. And then like
later on at two o 'clock, after everyone decides
it's time to go, I think the bar had closed hours
ago. I would just take my bicycle. I couldn't
bicycle home anymore. I would just push my bike
home. It was really great. I mean, no one remembers
those times. Yeah, yeah. Well, those days are
over. I hope they will revive again. You know,
I mean. Working so hard, trying so hard, doing
whatever I can in my own small little way to
hopefully get people to be aware that, hey, you
guys are killing nightlife. And we've lost music
in this country's DNA, man. No, yeah. We've lost
it. It's a phenomenon. If you were to take a
look at the last couple of years on American
Top 40, look at the charts. You hardly see a
band. Is that right? If you see any groups, there
are groups like K -pop and whatever, you don't
see bands. You see solo artists all the time.
Okay, so maybe groups are out of fashion now?
Bands seem to be out of fashion, which is scary.
I mean, I just feel so sad. When you have big
sound, most of these young people have never
experienced even a five or six piece. you know?
Yeah. In those days, remember we used to see
bands like that. We go gaga over these, these
sort of, the sound's so big, right? And it's
so, so much more fun. Well, anyways, we digress.
Okay. Thanks again, Suzanne, for spending time
being so honest and open and absolutely frank.
Yeah. You know, I've never been very ambitious,
so I don't have that veneer of like professionalism,
particularly when I have a mic in front of me
and we're talking. I mean, it just goes back
to my old days in radio. But I think the only
way forward is to be authentic. And that is also
a Chris Ho advice. Well, I don't know if you
see what we write in our show. the most authentic
conversation you can find in Singapore. Yeah.
I don't want to offend people and I hope we didn't.
I think we were just being real. Honestly, I
don't care whether you have or not. I really
don't. Well, anyway, thanks again, really. It's
wonderful to have you in the studio. It's a great
conversation, really. I hope we had fun too.
I did. I did. Thank you so much. Not at all.
My pleasure. Pleasure's all mine. Okay, everybody.
Thank you for watching this episode. That was
Suzanne Walker. And I tell you, it was so good
to hear her voice, especially in my cans. And
one day, who knows? I might just do a love songs.
Go for it. I don't see why you should. Oh, man.
Do a sex show, you know. What? Take calls. There's
a show in Hong Kong where it's like a podcast
where they actually take calls and people call
in to talk about their marital problems, their
sex problems. I will be arrested. This is Singapore.
What else I thought? It's not on broadcast. So
I do not know whether there are regulations against
it if it's on a podcast. Sometimes there are
just some areas I fear to tread. I understand.
As much as daring as I can be. You don't want
to get a POFMA letter, right? How does it work?
Absolutely. So I'm not going to go there. Okay.
Anyway, everybody, thank you very much for watching
this episode with Suzanne Walker. Just so you
know, Suzanne, the title of this episode today,
is that one from Radio's Love Goddess to Podcaster.
Oh. That's your episode title. And thank you
for watching, everybody. Come back again, same
time, same place, same channel, next week. Until
then, take care, stay safe. Bye -bye. The Chris
Hansen Conversation. Real talk, no filters. And
a growing community of more than 90 ,000 subscribers
across ASEAN, right here from Singapore.