In this episode of the Chris Hansen Conversation,
we have decided to produce an unprecedented blend
of our series, I Love My Job, and tribute to
SG Music icons, as we have a true luminary of
Singapore's audiovisual and events industry.
The Managing Director of TPP Private Limited
Order Production People, Mr. Sheldon Gui. Sheldon's
story is an unconventional one. It's a tale that
began with a youthful passion for music and parties,
which he bravely turned into a business venture
known as Mobile Discos. From there, he began
building what would become one of the industry's
most respected companies, the production people.
But it was a pivotal personal moment that truly
defined his journey. While in his final year
at the National University of Singapore, Sheldon
made the courageous decision to withdraw from
his studies to focus entirely on his business.
Today, that same entrepreneurial spirit extends
beyond his own company. Sheldon is also the President
of the Singapore Talent Artists and Resources
or STAR Association, a national body that champions
the interests of freelancers and performers in
the entertainment industry. And in a move that
truly shows his commitment to lifelong learning,
He even went back to school at 49 to master new
technologies, ensuring he and his company remain
at the forefront of the industry's future. His
is a story of determination, of building a business
and a community from scratch, and of being a
true champion for the people who make the shows
happen, both on and off the stage. We pay tribute
to a man who truly loves his job and is an icon
in his own right, Sheldon Gwee. Thank you. We
say what we do. I think that's what I hear from
a lot of people, that we are reliable. With anything,
if you went and bought a 55 -inch TV, you'd expect
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your purchases. Now, let's start the show. No
shit. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do I have MC voice? Good
evening, ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen.
Gentlemen. Wow, this was, brings back memories
of another legend. Who? Jason Gilakatong. Who?
You remember this guy? No, who the hell is that?
Jason Gilakatong. Wow. Who's Jason Gila Gatong?
His name is Jason Cheng. He's a big size guy.
He was an MC. He had this routine where he would
do a Miss Universe pageant. Why does that ring
a bell? It was really funny. He was so good.
Big guy, right? Jason Cheng. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
His stage name was Jason Gila Gatong. And I used
to, I DJed at D &D's when he was MC. And I, till
today, right? This is early 90s. But till today,
I remember he would we would do like guess the
tune and in those days we would be playing records
right right right one tune one tune one tune
one tune and then you had a fanfare for the winner
yeah and then okay you start packing your records
and you find background music yeah yeah yeah
he would thank the crowd we'll see you later
he walk off the stage and tell me fuck you lah
your BGM so slow he couldn't stand any dead air
oh is it yeah it just taught me the precision
you know of even just as a DJ of like, it was
important to get the background music going and
then go do your own thing, right? I was like,
wow, to today I remember that. So, no dead air,
right? No dead air, yeah. Quite frankly, I can't
stand it. Jason Gilakaton. Why is he called Jason
Gilakaton? I don't know. I don't know. Is that
his stage name or what? Or is that what people
call him? People called him. What people called
him. But that name rings a bell. Okay. Anyway.
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the Chris Hansen
Conversation. We are here for a very first time
that we're going to be doing this. This is the
very first time ever we're doing this on the
show. And this show is not just about the I Love
My Job series. It is also a tribute. A tribute
to an icon. Because you know why? Usually we
just do I Love My Job or... the tribute to sg
local music icons uh but today i for this gentleman
of mine my guest in the studio i gotta do both
one is i gotta we're going to find out about
his passion about what he does and he's been
doing for this for a long time and also because
he's one of the uh enablers of the music business
uh and the events business and the entertainment
business And enablers ought to also be recognized
and therefore I'm also paying tribute to him.
And I have in studio with me the Chief Kahuna,
the head honcho, for a company called The Production
People or TPP for short. And Sheldon Gwee is
in studio. Welcome to the studio. Thank you for
coming to CCB TV. Thank you for having me, Chris.
Not at all, man. Thank you for having me on CCB
TV. And a very good day to all of you, ladies
and gentlemen. Thank you. for tuning in. How?
Okay? Good, man. Brings back a little bit of
memories. What icon are you talking about? Icon,
bro. Actually, it's true, bro. It's the first
time. It's the first time. It's not even a crossover,
man. It's the first time that I have. I love
my job and tribute to SG Music icons all in one
show. And because I want people to hear about
your passion for the AVL business. I agree that
I love my job, but I will humbly say that you
really cannot consider me an SG Music icon. What
icon are you talking about? Because, bro, it's
not just for musicians. It's also for people
who enable the music business. And you are one
of them. And I can say that for a fact because
you've done so many things. You supported a lot
of my shows, man. over the years and a lot of
others as well. Yes, yes. Many, many, yes. Two
hands cannot count one. Many, many. Because it's
been 30 years. Easily. Easily 30 years. This
man has been around for ages, let me tell you.
And if you take a look at this, later on, earlier
on, you've seen the video that we played. We
paid a visit to Sheldon at TPP's premises. I
can tell you, man, I can tell you that video,
if you've seen it, this is like walking into
a Toys R Us. And we all go gaga over, oh gosh,
look at all this. And it was just pretty amazing,
man. Pretty amazing, man. Thank you. Really,
really. And that vintage collection of yours?
Yes. Yeah. And you're collecting all of the vintage,
let me just make it very clear, guys. Vintage
audio visual systems. Yes. Right? Is that the
right way for me to describe this? Yes. It's
a... The informal name is the AVL Heritage Gallery.
It started off really coming, well, coming out
of COVID where a lot of fellow AVL friends were
getting rid of gear to scale down the space because
not enough jobs and you're paying rental on warehouse.
And I felt there was quite a bit of emotion.
People were throwing away gear that they used
to work with, that they built their businesses
on, but they couldn't hold on to it any longer.
And seeing that on like Facebook, Instagram,
I felt like this is very sayang because there
were quite a lot of iconic stuff that I felt
with all their history, today will have a double
purpose of bringing back the memories for the
old timers, as well as giving a sense of history
and perspective for the younger folk that are
coming to the industry right uh you you have
like analog consoles you know a knob for every
aux yeah not for every eq totally unheard of
right everybody's digital screens looking and
mixing uh i'm not knocking the younger engineers
but but a lot of people tend to look and mix
rather than listen and mix. Yeah, but back in,
back in our day, it was all, it was all tactile.
Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah. I mean, I love playing.
We had to look as well. Sorry, sorry, sorry.
I love playing with knobs, but anyway. Yeah,
so, so. So you got this, you got all this collection.
We, we seen your collection. It was on the video
as well. And, and you want to start a museum
eventually? Is that in your, on the cards? It's,
it's my bucket list. Ah. Whether I eventually
get there or not, I don't know. Okay. But you
never try, you never know. Yeah, exactly right.
With every journey, what did Confucius say? Every
journey starts with the first step. The journey
of a thousand miles starts with the first step.
Very good. Yeah, and you know, I think I'm going
to cheer you on to do that. Hopefully you have
a gallery, really set up a gallery, open to the
public. People can come in, pay tickets. Yes
It won't be free So you see SG Music Icon Okay
lah This is what I mean This is what I'm talking
about Not SG Music Icon SG Music Supportation
You're correct Enabler bro That's why I'm saying
You see ya This is my series. It's up to me how
I want it. It's Enabler, bro. Like Dennis Foo,
Enabler. I had him. I paid tribute to him. Yes,
I saw a bit of that. Nathan as well. You know,
Harry's Bar, right? And he was an Enabler as
well. People, and even radio DJs. So, people
who enable the entertainment world and music,
per se. in this country. And people like you
are like, even Reggie Leo, he's a guitarist,
I told him, you're always in the background.
Sometimes you're in the front, sometimes you're
in the back. But today, you've got to be in front.
And guys like you, always in the background,
man. Always, always in the background. And it's
not fair. I think it's not fair because the kind
of work you guys do is absolutely ridiculous,
man. I always say, and I tell my guys, if people
notice us, something must have fucked up. Right?
That's one way of putting it. Yeah, because you're
there, people are there to enjoy the show. If
all the head children look at you guys. If somebody
notices, you know, or either that or the talent
has to call out, hello, Mr. Soundman, I cannot
hear myself. Somebody didn't do their job, right?
You know why? Because this show, that series,
right? Andy, I love my job series. Let's talk
about the tribute one first. Like, for example,
guys like you, guys who are also the sound men,
the sound engineers, you know, the guys who,
in the background, tweaking all the sound for
bands and stuff, and they go up on stage and
play. These people are always forgotten, you
know, and I'm not going to let that happen, man.
As much like you, you think it's so sayang to
have audio, you know, systems being just chucked
aside or thrown away or discarded. You want to
keep them because that's part and parcel of our
event history or the event marketplace. You know
what I mean? Same thing. I feel the same way
for people. I applaud you for that. I think,
yes, there is a need to recognize these people.
But I think... From all the people that I've
seen that do this work, they don't do it for
the recognition. Yeah, I know. Right? They do
it because they love what they do. They don't
do just what they're told. They put in so much
effort pre -show to work. I mean, the amount
of questions I get sometimes, the amount of back
and forth I work with sound engineers as we build
the systems that we deploy on a show, it's like,
wow, these guys are just... putting in so much
effort to get the show absolutely perfect. That's
become their passion, right? I want to make sure
that everybody that goes on stage, they get to
give off the best sound. The audience hears how
this show was meant to be put out. The amount
of detail they go in, the amount of research,
you know, there are guys who are listening to
the music, the songs beforehand, so they know
where to put in the effects, they know where
the solos are coming. In the old days, I think,
well, okay, I'm not knocking the older guys,
but there was a lot more of, let's wing it. And
it'll be okay, right? But the younger generation
now is putting in so much effort into all of
this. Warms my heart, man. There's so much passion.
Correct, bro. See, that's the reason why I feel
that, you know, they may not want the recognition,
but I'm sorry, I'm giving it to you. I'm going
to shove it down your throats, man. I'm going
to make sure you're recognized. And it's only
right, it's only right that all the mechanisms
that involve in a great show have got to be,
you know, eventually come out and be seen and
recognized and names have got to be uttered.
You know what I mean? You and I, we've known
each other for a very, very long time. As I said
earlier, easily 30 years, man. And you began
in the good old heyday. We call it even Larry
Lai. Larry Lai is the first guy who started,
by the way. Yes. Moby Dick. Mobile discos. Mobile
discos. But I know that you started with spinning
first, right? As a DJ. Or was it that or were
you behind the microphone doing this thing that
we used to call a Mikey? There are other people
today called hype man. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely.
My first touch into the industry was behind the
mic. Yep. And can you explain? Beside the DJ,
the DJ would play the music. Yeah. This was...
I'm showing my age, 1989. 1989, right? It's an
old friend of mine, Kati. Kati Kasant. Kati,
still active in the business today. A company
called Glasnos in the past, right? Back then,
Glasnos. Today, it's a company called SLS. We're
still in touch. We're still good friends. He
would play the music on turntables with vinyl,
those little black, brown things. for you youngsters.
We used to call it Wax. Was it? But Singapore
nobody lah. No lah. We call it Wax lah. No, back
then. No, with Kati's brother Bear. I mean, his
stage name is Bear. His name is Siva. Bear also
used to call it Wax. He was a cool dude. Yeah,
cool man. Yeah, I had fun with him. But, yeah,
so, he would play the music but I think, I'm
not sure why but he called a friend to come along
on one of the gigs to do the hype mic. We didn't
even have a name for it, right? Mikey, Mikey.
Yeah, it was Party the Crowd. It was called Party
the Crowd. What? Party the Crowd. Party the Crowd.
Okay, whatever. And this friend of mine was my
schoolmate. We were in junior college at that
time. So it's like, hey, there's this thing Kati's
calling me. Come along. Let's see. Let's have
some fun. I had fun. I had fun. Okay. You knew
how to do the Mikey thing already. I mean, you
would go to parties, right? And then it was,
everybody say yeah. Come on, clap your hands.
Put your hands up in the air. Not so hard, what?
There were no big words, right? You didn't have
to use big words. You just had to have your timing
right. Somebody scream. Right, right. You can't
do that too often. But yeah, I was hooked. I
was hooked. And I'm like, this is fun. Did you
get paid for that? I did. And what was the money
like, man? I did. I never knew how much my keys
got paid. No, because I had to share it with
this friend of mine. Okay, okay. So I don't think
it was a lot. Yeah. But you know when you're
17, 18 years old. It wasn't about the money.
It was about, okay, there's something to do on
the weekend. Okay. Let's go do it. And then you
realize, hey, this is quite fun. And then you're
like, hey, is there, you got any more of this
happening again? I don't mind. Come on, have
another go at it. And then after a while, my
friend dropped out. And you started, you could
too. You're having fun, why don't you do it,
right? Okay. And then, oh my God. What was the
money like, man? What was the money like? No,
I think like $30, $40 maybe. Really, yeah? Yeah,
yeah. But that was in 1989. My goodness. It's
quite okay. I mean, when you're so young, you
can go to Denny's and still have leftovers. Quite
a lot of money. But of course, the show's end
late, so you got to take taxi home. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. No such thing, submit receipt, claim cap,
or last time, don't have this concept, right?
But yeah, so I'll be at the show, but you'll
be there early. You watch the MC party, the crowd.
These were always small gigs, right? Really small
company, D &D, or like, passing out parade, army,
police, that kind of thing. So small parties.
But then, I was like, eh, I get to see all these
young chicks all dressed up. My age group, right?
Eh, you go school, you do. It's always about,
first thing, it's always about the girls, man.
Eh, all these girls dressed up. And then I realised,
somebody did it once and I thought, eh, I can
do that. It was, you go up to the banquet guy
and say, I'm with the DJ, could I get a beer?
he would very quickly give you a beer. Like,
hey, I got a beer for free. So you got booze,
you got the birds, you got the booze. I got the
chicks. I'm like, this is not bad. I can keep
doing this. And then, and then I think, I can't
remember how, but I got my chance to get on stage
and MC a show. Yeah. So I did a bit of MCing.
And then as time went by, I thought, okay, I
can do this thing on my own as well. Bought a
secondhand mixer, turntables. Started buying
records in those days. Valentine. The Valentine
music? Valentine. It was in Far East. Way back
then, yes. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Before they
went to... And then in Bukit Timah, there was
a record shop. It was... What's his name now?
Laserbeast. Laserbeast, okay. Laserbeast, the
guy. What's his name? I don't know. Okay, I forget.
Jimmy, I think. I can't remember. But he had
a record shop as well. And I would buy some records
from him. I would buy some records from Valentine's.
And then I'd be practicing at home. Eventually,
there's one more called Dada. Dada, yes. But
I think Valentine was bringing in a lot of the
party music stuff. There was like the white label.
Eventually, they moved to Paradise Center. Yes.
In Sedigi. And you got... quite a good relationship
with the shop guys that they will call you when
there was new stuff coming in. DJs in the clubs
will be picking up those records. I want to copy
so that I can play that in the D &D as well.
So fun. Yeah, it was fun. Freaking fun, man.
And it was good music. I was having fun. Yeah,
I think I was very lucky. And then it just kept
growing from there. I did DJing. So did some...
Did the audio. I stopped MCing because it's -
Who trained you, man? I would - I mean, talking
about DJing. Because Cathy was playing the music.
He had a setup in his home. Right. So I would
go to his house on weekends. We were in the same
JC together. Okay. He was one year my senior.
Okay. And I would go to his house on weekends
and we jam. Practice mixing. He said, no, no,
you got to get the beat right and then, okay,
then learn a bit about - then you had to understand
the music structure because just because the
beat was right if one chorus hadn't ended and
the other verse of the next song already started
then so then you had to know when to start the
snare mix bar mix yeah yeah and make sure that
this and then over time you started getting more
complex of how do you keep the outgoing song
in the mix as the the new song plays how do you
bring it out slowly rather than quick it's gone
and all that tricks and a lot of people were
very happy to teach or maybe they were scolding
me I don't know but yeah I learnt a lot I started
I started out with equipment I stopped I stopped
MCing after a while because it just got too tiring
because I had to go rent a van then go fetch
my friends it was it was school days right and
then if you're doing everything basically yeah
and then pick up, load up the equipment, go,
a lot less equipment than today's shows, right?
You have one wireless mic for the MC, that's
it. Two turntables, two speakers, one amplifier.
Speakers are bigger than a normal human being.
It would all fit in a little van. There would
be some more space, two disco lights like the
helicopter. It was so much fun. But then, yeah,
I mean, having to set it up, then go freshen
up. change and wear your coat and then wear jacket,
do the show. After that, take off the jacket,
spin the music. After finish, oh, shag, but still
got to keep the cable, put all the speakers back
in the van. Carry everything down. Go back home,
put it back at home, trying to be quiet so neighbours
don't wake up. And the Adam Road. And then go
supper. And then after that, next day, go and
return the van because you didn't want to pay
an extra day of rental. Like, wah, cannot leh,
pom chit. But yeah, then I kept on doing it.
But that system was yours? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I had a system. One of my early systems went
up in smoke. When you say it went up in smoke,
you mean it actually went kaput? No sound and
smoke. Actual smoke. From where? From the speaker.
The speaker not caught fire, but there was smoke.
But smoke, smoke, smoke. Then the show stopped.
The party had to stop. No, really. The party
stopped. And then that's it. The speaker, no
sound. Then the client? The climbers be damn
pissed now. But there was already some partying.
So it was a premature stop. And it wasn't a smoke
machine, right? But yeah, yeah. I think after
that, you know, I thought, okay, then we better
focus on getting good equipment. But you went
to buy the equipment. Why? Why did you do that?
Why? You see, you went from Mikey to MC and then
you decided too tired doing that. Then you ended
up learning how to spin and then you went to
buy equipment. I mean, I was making money. You
could have just become a DJ spinning for some
other AVL company or event company. Yeah, I don't
know why. Backside itchy. You didn't have to
buy equipment. Warehouse so big. Alamak. Backside
Ichi. Dude, the warehouse is also like walking
into Ikea, okay? I think there was a bit of me
that was partly enjoying the music. Yeah. And
there was also a part of me that was enjoying
the tech behind it. Okay. So having the equipment,
having the joy of kind of putting it all together.
Right. And then, playing the music that you loved
and then getting the reaction from the crowd.
I think it was just all that combination. So
it's like you needed to have the entire thing
there to make sure that you just needed to have
all these things to produce all of that sound
and the music that you can spin. It was the love
of the gear as well. Right? Okay, what about
the love of the gear, man? Can you explain that
to me? What do you mean? I don't know, lah. It's
a very weird concept. Okay, okay. I'm weird too.
I'm weird too. I was just telling Reggie Leo
that I love going to Sweetie. I don't play any
instruments. I love to be surrounded by instruments.
You know? And back, right now, you know, this
is the third time I'm saying it, but they have
a cafe now, you know, right? They got an outlet
in Clark Key. Ah, yes, yes, yes, yes. And you
could actually buy cake, coffee, sit down, and
then a turntable's in front of you. And then
you can go and get records in the library. Then
you sit there and you have an hour. You can sit.
They give you an hour entitlement. Put on your
cans and you play your record and you eat your
cake, you drink your coffee. don't do much cake
and yeah I know but you're surrounded by being
surrounded by equipment and you have all that
it's an ideal situation for me you know what
I mean it's like me I don't know why I love being
around musical instruments but like you you love
the gear why? well I it's a weird thing it's
a weird thing it's a weird thing even today?
you still love being around? even today yeah
I think it's the It's kind of how everything
comes together. Right. It's an assembly. No,
not an assembly. How you got to have the gear
and then you have to have the talent. Then you
got something to give to the audience. Right.
And then the audience appreciates that. Then
that creates an ecosystem. Right. And even much
more when you understand that, you know, having
maybe good speakers makes the sound more impactful.
people enjoy the music a little bit more. Okay.
Or, you know, can I, do I have enough channels
on my mixer to put another wireless mic in? Those
days you didn't. I mean, they did exist, but
you didn't have like huge mixers in. in mobile
disco right so it was DJ mixer you had turntable
left turntable right but you needed a cassette
deck because the dancers would show up for their
opening dance with their tracks mixed on the
cassette yeah yeah you need a cassette deck for
that you need channel for that you didn't want
to be unplugging they take pencil put inside
the hole you turn the fella a little bit yeah
yeah so Yeah, been there, done that, man. From
the cassettes to the CDs and then some performers
then moved into mini disc. Yeah, yeah. MD. You
lah. You the one who told me to go and buy MDs.
Yeah. I mean, you could record. An MD player,
yeah. Yeah, so part of that was, I think the
whole heritage thing was part of me as well.
You know, how seeing all of that progression
in the industry and saying, I have to share this
with more people. So at that stage, when you
got that first set and it went up in smoke, At
that stage, when you decided to do that, was
it because you've already seen that this is what
you want to do moving forward in your life? In
the short term, yes. In the short term? In the
short term, yes. I think when you're young, at
that age, it was after NS, I don't think you
think about that far into the future. You don't?
I didn't. I certainly didn't. You didn't know
what you wanted to do yet at the time? No, I
had something going, which was gigs. Clients
were calling. We would do the gigs. We would
listen to the clients. With that one set? One
set. Of course, then we started going more and,
you know, I have a show too. I'm like, oh, you
have a show, but he has a show too. We need more
gear. So initially you say, oh, I can't, I only
have one set. I'm doing it for this guy. You
realize he's got money to give me, right? What
if I bought a second set? I could do both, right?
And that whole concept just grew from there.
And now I have not both, but three, four, five,
six, seven, eight, nine, ten. If I ask you today,
having been to your place, roughly how many sets
can you actually put up in a night? Well, okay,
we don't really go for quantity now. Because
it's really about the quality. And I think today,
the work that we do has become a lot more complex.
A lot more elements that come into a show. Way
different from just parties of the early days.
I mean, there are still party elements. But every
event is different, right? Okay, we'll talk about
the complexities of... current day later let's
go back to back then at that age when you were
young and you had the first set went kaput then
after that you got you got you had a replacement
set I'm pretty sure after that right yeah yeah
I went and bought another set of speakers it
was speaker and amplifier PV With that time,
it was already the CS1000 amplifier. Oh, the
CS1000 PV. Not the 800. The 800 was the really
heavy ones. But I got new PVM. CS1000. So you
want to replace the 800 with the 1000? No, no,
no. My old amp and the old speakers won. I don't
even remember what it was. It wasn't anything
famous that you would remember today. But yeah,
so I got a pair of PVs. Went out there, did shows
with it. Don't care. 50 packs, 200 packs. It
was just the same pair of speakers. Just go.
And nobody funded you for your business at that
time? You had to buy all the equipment. No, my
parents put in some money. Okay. My parents put
in some money early on for the initial. I said,
this is what I want to do. This is good. And
I was getting paid, right? So I was generating
small income. And then that just kept funding
the business as it went along. Wow. So can we
easily say that your folks didn't have an issue
with you going into this business? Going in,
not really. I think at that time they saw it
as a youthful passion. Okay. So it's like, okay
lah. It's like if your kid wants to ride bicycle,
you buy them an expensive bicycle. If they like,
I don't know. What else was expensive hobbies
back in those days? I don't know, man. At that
time, no computer. Yeah, I also don't know. I
don't spend a lot of money. Or maybe some...
gaming no lah no not even then where got games
gonna play goalie last time game the game and
watch game and watch or your on your watch also
you got game boxing game or calculator boxing
game yeah yeah yeah so and then of course because
this was this was I was already doing it when
I enlisted for NS yeah And then after that, I...
Was it a business already by then? Was it an
entity, a business entity already at that stage?
Before NS? Yes, I think it was. So you did the
whole shebang. You went to, at that time we call
it ROC, and now it's Accra. Yeah, Anson Road.
Yeah, you went to ROC and you incorporated the
business. I did, yeah, yeah. Wow. What was the
early days? Bloody hell, so young, you knew how
to do that? Yeah, I don't really remember how
I knew how to do that. But I remember in the
early days, there were clients who would be like,
so who's your sales guy? How come we always talk
to you? And I was like, no, that means personal
service. I'm very concerned about your show,
so I will attend to everything. But true for
the matter, there was no one else, right? Then
when I showed up to the actual gig, oh, you are
the, yeah, I'm passionate about making sure your
show turns out well. So I'm personally going
to set it up. I'm personally going to DJ. I mean,
I'm sure people saw through it after a while.
But then, then of course, then by then I stopped
emceeing. So I wasn't working with end clients.
I was kind of dabbling a little bit in event
management. Wasn't even called that in those
days, right? Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't even
such a concept. We didn't even know what it was.
It was called entertainment companies. Correct,
yes. Entertainment companies back then. Yes,
yes. Not EOs, not agencies. Correct, right. Entertainment
companies. All those were unheard of terms, yeah.
So, yeah, I think trying a little bit of everything,
I realised, okay, if I did... the tech side of
things I would still enjoy myself I would still
be in touch but I could just do more of it and
so I decided let's focus on that and then incorporated
a business called Ultimax Productions if you
remember that I do very cheesy name now looking
back I thought we have to be the best of the
best the ultimate of the ultimate the maximum
of the maximum I mean dude a lot of names were
cheesy back then they were what they were companies
like Megaforce Hello. If that's not cheesy, I
don't know what is. Yeah, I kind of maybe was
in that vein of the max. I wasn't good enough
being the ultimate. I wanted to be the maximum.
Yeah, that didn't last too long. But yeah, so
after I left university, I actually didn't complete
university. Okay. And then I... Got a partner
in... Wait, wait. Let's go back a little bit
again. I like to cover stuff that's way back
in history. It's so interesting. The performers
and entertainers that you worked with, there
were plenty way back when you started. Yes. And
the early years of your business. If you take
a look at those guys, then... you know just to
name a few the guys that people like Buddy Lauren
right which I remember that you used to support
his show quite a lot yeah yeah and who else who
else can we name from back then you mentioned
earlier on about Jason Gila Katung. He was an
MC. But we're talking about performers, entertainers.
Ming. Ah, okay. Ming. She had Suzy Wong show
for the longest time. Right. And then now she
does the pole and all the acrobatic stuff. Is
it acrobatic? No. I don't know. But yeah, really
cool stuff. It's definitely not aerobatics. And
she's amazing, right? She's gone through the
business all these years reinventing. There was
a season where X would come in for the D &D peak.
They would be brought in. Foreign X. Foreign
X. They would stay here for three months, four
months. Guys like Russ Merlin and all. Russ Merlin.
There was Bob Arno. There was Safri Boyz. Safri
Duo is the African band, but there was Safri
Boyz. They would jump around. Okay. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. Yeah, yeah. And you would see them on Friday,
on Saturday, maybe on Sunday at a family day
because they would be just milking all the shows,
right? They would make the best of the time that
they had here. They were being sold to all the
entertainment companies. They were being booked.
They made their money. The agents made their
money. It was kind of a nice... Nice time. Nice
time, yeah. Compared to today, what's the difference?
I'm not so much in the party scene today. I do
a lot more corporate work. I think entertainment
is still there. You maybe don't get as much of
the foreign acts anymore. But there are a fair
share of entertainers, people who go up there,
do songs, stand -up comedy, magicians, the younger
breed, right? And I think it's just evolution
and people understanding what makes audiences
click and tweaking the shows. I don't think some
of those acts from the 90s, if you brought them
back on stage today, I don't know if they work.
Really? I don't know, right? And then whether
you have that sort of... talent anymore. I'm
not saying we don't have the talent. Say it.
No, no, no. I think it is there. I think it is
there. But there are many other options because
it's about if you were going to bring in a foreign
act, what is it going to cost? Yeah. How much
are you going to have to sell that? What about
the logistics? And then does it actually become
viable? Maybe the difference here, Sheldon, would
be if you look at the difference between the
audiences way back when, compared to the audience
of today, the reception towards these things
are different, right? I... Yeah. What? I think
people in general are a lot more high -strung
today, myself included. Society has changed,
right? People are not as carefree, a little bit
more self -conscious, a little bit more worried
about what they do and the outcomes of what they
do. Stress levels just a lot higher. Well, is
that the price of progress? Is that just a general
societal shift globally? Is that because of media,
the availability of media where people can...
share ideas a lot quicker today be influenced
by what they see or you get screwed over basically
by social media too yeah I mean it's got good
and bad right so when you have you said you're
doing more corporate stuff right now so I don't
know whether you would know or don't know because
I'd like to know let's say for example a typical
D &D which is typical D now, forget about dance,
which I wish that more event companies and event
management people would be able to sit down and
plan a dance segment or dance segments into their
show program. And I think it is highly possible
for it to be done. But when these people, these
guys attend a company dinner, because you know
the bosses will say, oh, you guys did a great
job this year. We're throwing a company party,
you know, to reward you, have some fun, get your
hair down. And do people still let their hair
down? Or are they worried about their bosses
and supervisors and managers looking at them?
I think it's they want to catch the MRT. maybe
maybe I don't know but yes yes yes in the in
the old days we used to we used to always end
shows past midnight definitely easily right easy
and it was a kind of a contest on who could end
their show later correct man you did a better
job of keeping your exactly yeah today is a can
we wrap this up quickly so banquet can clear
up and get ready for tomorrow's event and the
guys can go home faster. So everybody wants to
go home. You're talking about, okay, you're saying
banquet says shut down. No, no, banquet doesn't
say shut down. Yeah, banquet doesn't say that.
But people, I mean, of course, if a party goes
on too late, if there's a reason, like there
are weddings that go on too very late because
everybody's in a very good mood. You've got a
good DJ there. The music is good. Enough alcohol.
Everybody's feeling really happy. It just goes
on and on. Sometimes, they adjourn to an after
party. Correct. Yeah. So, I think if it's a corporate
party, then, I don't know, maybe people are a
bit more quite opposite now. Before the wedding,
people go back early. It's like, I still have
to show up at work on Monday. Yeah. And should
I really be partying or do I, or maybe people
are careful about losing control of themselves
if they party too much and like, will I be judged?
There are a lot of judgements. Yeah, judgements.
In the office, nobody knows. I'm like that. But
why? But the interesting thing you said just
now is about catching the last train. Let's examine
this. Because the Grab. Yeah. Grab is Grab. At
12 .30 from a hotel in Orchard. Taxi lah bro.
Very expensive no. Taxi. Different from Grab.
Yeah. Still a lot of money. That's how you want
to claim. Look, we didn't pay very little either
way back when. We're talking about the value
of the dollar. But we all... Yeah. I don't know.
See, this is the thing. We paid midnight surcharge
too. I think people still go out to party. There
are DJs from the old days sharing. They're working.
Guys like Rico. Yeah. Working with the retro
clubs. Yeah, Rico, Malcolm. Marky is always full.
But that's... a bit different kind of entertainment.
Yeah, it's a different kind of entertainment.
Which is, I think you had some of that in the
old days. Maybe we were young, we didn't know
about it. I think. I'm sure there was, right?
I can only think of Xanadu. Or Shinoa. Yeah,
see? It did exist, right? I think society evolves,
things change, right? And I... I think we have
to change from our generation. We have to accept
that the landscape will be different. What we
used to enjoy, the newer generation may not enjoy
in the same way. We can try and bring it back.
I mean, the fact that you have some of the clubs
that the older DJs are working in and playing
retro music and you're getting older people because...
they're bringing back their younger party memories
right yeah they're going out there they're buying
bottles they're keeping the businesses see after
the older people like older than us and us as
well when we are gone that's it but it would
it would have given rise to a different dynamic
now i hear people talking about Coffee clubbing.
Coffee clubbing. Well, I really hate that shit,
no? I mean, I haven't been to one. This whole
season has been nothing that we've been talking
about. No, dude. It's just coffee, coffee. I
don't get drunk and I feel, so I don't, you know,
I keep healthy and then we can still go back
home. It's still daylight. We can go for dinner
after that and go back home. You know, don't
have to worry about catching the last train,
last bus. Okay, it's not a bad thing, right?
Oh my gosh, you're being so politically correct.
No, no, I mean... Fucking hell. Yeah, it's not
what we partied when we were young. It's not
how we partied when we were young. Dude, dude.
But maybe we have to learn to... What's that
thing, Kai, that people use for the dating app?
What's it called? Dating app? What's the dating
app thing called? I'm off the market. I know,
I'm off the market too. That's the reason why
I don't bloody remember the name of it. There
is a dating app that is very popular around the
world. What the hell is it called? Is it? Huh?
Are you talking about Tinder? Tinder, that's
right. Tinder. Back then, who the hell has Tinder?
We would go out clubbing, go out to parties,
and then we meet girls. Yeah, so, that's the
thing, you see, there are a lot of different
mechanisms today to achieve the same things.
we would achieve when we went out partying. You
see, the world has changed. What did we use?
How did you, you know, last time, pager, you
ask youngster lah, who knows what is pager now?
That you have to put code. Well, the wonderful
thing about that is that we would rather be so
excited to meet this person face to face because
we got a page on this person and say, I'm going
to see you soon or whatever. I think change will
always be there. Change is different, but it's
not necessarily bad. I know I sound like being
very politically correct. You sound so fucking
politically correct. What are you talking about,
man? No, no, no. Hear me out, hear me out, hear
me out. It takes two hands to clap, right? So
rather than us lamenting that the youngsters
don't know how to party, why the oldster don't
want to change? The oldster? We must learn. Look
at my t -shirt, man. What does it say? What does
it say? That's the problem. Stuck is always a
negative connection. Stuck in the 90s. If you're
stuck, something is wrong. Come on. Stuck is
not the desired outcome in most scenarios. We
grew up in the 80s and we rocked the freaking
90s, man. Come on, man. So when we go out, we
have fun. We let the youngsters, the 2000, 2000
something, you know, now, the younger generation,
right? my son lah, the Xennials lah. So you have
to, you have to show them, hey, uncle used to
like that. And then whether they look at you
and they're like, look at you funny, boss. Look
at you funny, okay? I mean, we had to learn this
from the older folks, right? Our parents, our
uncles. And we're like, no lah, now the music
is like that, what, these old songs all, right?
The older songs. No, I tell you what's great.
The vintage songs. I tell you what's great, okay?
My wife and I, we have this place that we like
to go and party because they play our kind of
music. And also because the people there, you
know, we're so familiar with them, right? And
I'll say it, it's at Mel's Place, Mel's Place,
Restaurant and Bar in Katong. Okay. How come
you never brought me there? Bro, you can come
anytime, bro. I'll be there this Friday night
if you want to join us. That's why. Tell you.
So bands all play. I love that, right? I love
the live music and stuff. No DJ, sadly, but got
bands. At least not so bad. Yeah. Then the best
part, it ends at 11 p .m. It's the final last
set. I can go home early. Not because I want
to catch bus. I drive car, okay? But it's because...
I'm getting old. So I don't mind having a party,
party, party. But the club closes or you leave
at 11? The band, last band set ends at 11pm.
What happens after that? People can stay back
if they like. Where's the entertainment? There's
no more entertainment. Oh, shit. Yeah. So not
so good, right? That's the thing. Like what we
were talking about earlier. Dead air, bro. Dead
air. So, yeah. Maybe it's the cost, you know.
There definitely is a cost. You've got to pay
him a good wage. Correct. Definitely the cost.
Sometimes they do have, they invite DJs to come
and play and all that. You know, they do. But
anyway, coming back to the point is that sometimes,
you know, the place is filled basically with
people about our generation and the ones before
us. Okay? The older people. And we will, and
people will dance and all that. Then the younger
lot comes in. Then they look at us funny. And
they start laughing and the old people are dancing,
having a good time. They look at all these people,
all these generation people are crazy. I'm like,
screw you, dude. You know, come on. That is the
generation gap. Get it on the action, man. Get
it on the action, man. You know, like, I mean,
what's wrong? So what, like your son, what is
their action? He listens to music and a lot of
these young guys like today, I realise like to
listen to hip hop. But I'm glad to say that where
he's concerned, he does also roll back the old
songs because daddy here, you know, influence.
And then all of a sudden, one day he tells me
this, no, he tells me, I, no, daddy, I'm listening
to all the white female songs. I say, what white
female songs? What is white female songs? Come,
enlighten me. Madonna. Mariah Carey. What's her
face? Celine Dion. And I go, why? No lah, I just
felt the mood to listen to white female songs.
I didn't know there was a genre for white female
songs. That's the thing. And then now I got hip
hop jazz. I said, what the hell is that? You
know, and I was so into hip hop. You know, it
drives me up the freaking wall. And guess who's
his number one artist? Favourite of all time.
Kanye. Well, it's music. And he could even tell
me once, and I wanted to really strangle him,
better than Elvis. I tell you, asking for bloody
trouble on damn Twitter. It's perspective, right?
It's perspective. Anyway, I tell you. I think
I want to go and find myself a little island
somewhere and then go and get away from everybody,
you know? Okay. No, no, no. You were saying that
you didn't complete your degree. Did you or did
you not complete your degree anyways? I'm so
confused. I didn't, I didn't. So you did not
graduate with a degree at all? I did not graduate
with a degree. I did four years in university.
I studied building. And the reason I started
building was because it was a four -day school
week. No lessons on Friday. So I could go and
do some gigs every Friday and then do Saturday
and then come back to school on Monday. I mean,
who the fuck, bro, picks a bloody degree program
because of that? Oh, but it was beautiful. I
think I'm like almost the luckiest guy on the
planet. And then, I think you're... Two and three,
maybe. Yeah. Maybe just one year. I forget because
it was all a blur. We had classes on Thursday
that was drafting. Okay. So you didn't really
have to use your brain, right? Okay. Getting
into the lab, you would draw building plans and
you learn a different thing each week. The class
starts at 2 p .m. on Thursday. And back in the
day, guess what happens every Wednesday night?
What? On Jakim Street. Zook. Zook. Yeah. Mambo
Jumbo. Mambo Jumbo, yeah. Every week, without
fail, me and a whole bunch of university friends,
we would be at Mambo Jumbo. We'd do the Midnight
Madness with the Long Island Tea, the Bourbon
Coke. And get enough recovery time, show up to
NUS. 2 o 'clock. Sometimes half koyak. But never
mind because the class wasn't intense. It was
very practical, right? So you could pull through.
And then Friday, no class. Okay, man. Quite sure.
Good life, man. But I think I do have a little
bit of regret because very idealistic, right?
When you're young. And at the end of the four
years, it was... You have to do your final year
thesis. And it just somehow came, the briefing
and the guidance from the lecturer came across
to me as, choose your topic, go to the library
and look for other people's work on the topic
that you like. Copy, rephrase it, and then do
your own version of that, right? I mean, yes,
I'm simply finding it. No, no, no, but it was...
Yeah, it wasn't copy and paste, right? But it
just felt to me like... It's somebody else's
work. I'm going to pick up information from works
that have come before because you had to cite
sources. Right, right, right. Put things together
to come up with your argument, right? Because
now, yeah, it was critical thinking and organize
your thoughts and understand the subject matter.
But stupid me in those days, I just felt, this
is just copy and paste. Is that really an education?
And I already was learning stuff, right? I was
learning stuff. I was doing okay. My grades were
okay. I could understand the stuff that was being
taught. Yeah, but I just didn't do my thesis.
I didn't hit the deadline. I said, no, I have
nothing to add. You didn't do because you didn't
want to do it or because you didn't want to do
it? It was almost like a rebellion of like, how
is that supposed to judge how good I am? I'm
passing all my exams, but my grade, my final
graduation depends on me. being able to copy
and paste well enough. So as a matter of principle,
you decided to just not do it? Yeah, kind of,
kind of, kind of. Looking back now, I'm like,
ayah, damn stupid. Why, why, why stupid? Because
I could have just copy and paste, what? Then
I got my degree. Right? But then again, you would
have gone against your principles, what? Yeah
lah, what? Principle or, now no degree. What
the fuck? Now no degree. But you, but you, you.
No degree, but I studied four years. Four years.
But I was doing gigs while I was studying. I
was having quite a lot of fun. I was learning
things that actually are still relevant till
today. We studied about building structures.
We studied a bit about law in terms of building
contracts. I understand a little bit about the
law. We studied electricity. We studied about
jamban, that one. I'm not so sure how useful
it is. Yeah, but... A lot of things in building,
when I work now in venues, I understand how buildings
work. I put up structures overhead for equipment.
I understand what to do, what not to do. Or when
the professional engineer has some comments about
our design, I understand what they're talking
about, right? Rather than, which is also... Andrew,
I don't know, back in the day, Spectrum, Andrew.
Which Andrew? There are two Andrews. Andrew Wong.
Andrew Tan. Okay, the tall guy. Who went on and
studied. became an engineer. And today, I work
with Andrew. Andrew does all the professional
engineering. Do you still meet up with Andrew
Tan? Yeah, we are in touch all the time because
every time we have to endorse a structure to
make sure that it's safe, Andrew does that work
for me. Wow. So we still work together. Oh, wow.
Andrew is an engineer, but Andrew was with an
event company in those days, entertainment company.
Yeah, just so you guys know, give you some context.
30 years ago. Yeah. In the old days, 30 years
ago, the two Andrews you're talking about, Andrew
Wong and Andrew Tan, were the bosses of an event
company called Spectrum Promotions. Yours truly
was actually, I gave them my rights. So I was
exclusive to that company for a good number of
years. Okay, so wow, I've not seen Andrew Tan
in... Yeah, we're still connected all these years
later, doing slightly different things, but I
like it that how as an industry, there are so
many relationships that are forged. There's a
lot of the work that we do that is very passion
-driven. I mean, yeah, it's ultimate, right?
You get to do... what you love to do and you
make a living out of it. It's not true that every
day is like, what do they say? If you work what
you love. Every day is a vacation. Yeah, there
are going to be shit days, right? Definitely.
So don't believe all of that. But I think having
some... Love with what you do helps you get over
the shit days a little bit easier. Yeah, basically,
it's like a little sunlight peeking out of the
clouds sometimes when things go bad. Yeah, sometimes
all clouds. Then you got to really find the sunlight
or sometimes just wait. A very bright light that
you probably have tons of in your warehouse.
Shine it through. But if the power trips, then
no light, right? Then I ask you, you left NUS,
you, wow, man of principle. Okay, shut up. Left
NUS. And then you decided that you would just
continue with the AVL business? Yes. Yes. I was
doing parties. And I think it just progressed
naturally. We would do parties, doing the sound.
In those days, lighting was very simple. And
then... Then you have a client who would be,
hey, we need some projectors, right? Because
it started a trend of playing some games with
the video. Yes, yes. Start of multimedia back
in those days. It was silly things, right? Yeah,
I hated it. You had it on VHS, right? I don't
know. It was video in a tape, actual tape, right?
There was even a time when they had a stupid
robot. Was there a robot? There was a robot.
Yeah, but... This is... Robot that malfunctioned
for the lucky draw. But yeah, so there was video
that was starting to come into the shows. And
then I think we had a client that said, since
you're already here, why do I have to pay someone
else to bring the video projectors? Why don't
you provide the video projectors? And I said,
well, I don't have money to buy projectors. And
he actually said, I'll buy two projectors. And
you bring it on my show, but I won't pay you
as kind of an installment plan to pay back for
those projectors. Seriously? Legit. So it's like,
how lucky can I be, right? So somebody... Who
offers this kind of stuff, man? So he was like,
because then it just had to do with me. Right?
So one point of contact and we had already been
proving ourselves to be doing quite decent work
for audio. So it's like, yeah. Like there'll
be another group that comes just to do the projectors.
Why don't you do the projectors? That is nuts,
man. And then it was like, oh, I need park hands.
Like, no, I don't have. Like, go buy lah. So
by then the work was coming in. It's like, oh,
if the clients need this, then let's start buying,
right? We buy, we buy, we buy. And then one gig
comes along. Oh, but do you know how to hang
the lights? We need some trust. And I say, not
really. So us around people, I think first few
gigs, we get other companies, bigger companies
to help us. And then from then we say, not so
hard. Can do. So buy a small set. My initial
show needed four lengths of trust. I buy four
lengths of trust. It was a big deal, you know.
And then when I heard you guys got trusting.
The guys from Spectrum were like over the bloody
moon, you know. We had four sticks and then a
show needed something a little bit longer, bought
two more. And then today we have a few hundred.
So it just kept going, kept going, kept going.
Yeah, like a monster, runaway monster, right?
So you focus completely on the business. At that
time, can you easily, have you decided, at that
time that this this is it this is what i'm gonna
do and completely when you walked out of the
honours program no still no no it was it was
it was when you're younger you don't really think
so far right well yeah but you've already left
anyway yeah so you think okay i have a business
and then you know people talk about oh but now
you have no fallback plan what if your business
fails yeah so then it was like then don't fail
lah so you just kept working harder because your
initial reason for going in to university is
because you wanted to have a fallback and having
a piece of paper would help right no I went to
university because Friday, no... Shut up, you.
Even if you don't go to university, you can still
have a Friday off. You know what I mean? But
you signed up for your programme, your honours
programme, because you wanted a buffer, right?
Yes. I think, generally, that was the idea. Yeah.
That was sort of the... standard path everybody
would take. Yeah. Four years later, with so much
gusto and bravado, our principal walked out of
NUS and then you said, I got a business, I might
as well just do this. And then you went to do
it. But still, you have not decided that this
is the one. It wasn't a marriage yet. I think
you never know. Okay. You know what I mean? It
was like, Let's do this and see where it gets
us. Okay. So it was still a test water kind of
thing. Yeah, but it was... Cannot go stun already.
Like you're already in the deep end. So you decided
to marry the business already? I guess. Okay,
if you say like that. Can. Was there passion
already for the business at that time? No, the
passion is 1989. What happened in 1999? I first
started out on the mic. It was the parties, it
was bringing music. 1999, dude. 1989. Okay, okay,
okay. And the passion kept there throughout because
then it was, if we do the gear, we are helping
the entertainers to deliver their shows. But
confirming the business end of it wasn't something
that you've decided yet. You just felt that I've
got this, I must use it. And failure is not an
option, so therefore I push it ahead. Was that
it? Yeah, yeah. I think it's always been like
that. Okay. Looking back now, looking back now,
what advice would you give to a young person
today who is questioning the traditional path
and considering forging on their own? It doesn't
have to be in the AVL business. Since you're
one who's gone for an honours programme and are
a principal, I have to keep refilling that. Okay,
stop. In case I'll stab you, I'll tell you. This
will be the first stabbing in the CCB show. Chris
Hansen Conversation Show at the CCB TV Studios.
CCB TV, okay. Okay, let me get it straight. And
then, right, right. What advice would you give
a young guy? Goja. Goja. Good, goja. Goja. Goja.
Okay, I... The traditional path meaning study,
get a job. Get a job. Even then, you need to
find your passion. Right? So, I don't think that
we should be differentiating traditional versus
forged on your own. Okay. Being a case of work
for someone versus start your own business. Okay.
Because I think business is not for everyone.
Okay. I've seen my fair share of people who've
tried to go into business. They've got the right
ideas. They've got the right passion, but they
just can't hold it together. Okay. And why do
you think that? Management. Management what?
Managing business. Okay. There are so many elements
to the business that don't touch on the actual
work that you do. Right. Which are mundane, right?
And sometimes people say, no, I can hire people
for that. But because you don't understand it,
you don't have enough oversight of what your
people are doing. And you are the leader and
you don't have a way to control what goes on
or you don't have enough knowledge about what
is going on. And you keep focusing on your passion
and then it's all driven down to the ground.
And then, yes, you can look back and blame somebody,
blame your lack of experience, blame your whatever.
But it doesn't mean that Doing what you love
means you have to start a business. There are
many ways to do that. So I don't think it's an
all or nothing decision. I don't think it's a
case of, it doesn't mean that you go into a job,
the traditional, what we think is traditional,
right? Get your education, go for an interview,
go into a job in the trade that you learned and
then climb the corporate ladder. If you don't
have passion doing that, you're also not going
to get anywhere. Well, basically, if you go into
the traditional route and then you get a job
and then you get your promotions and you go for
courses that your bosses sent you for and you
learn a couple of things and then as the years
go by with some experience in hand in the corporate
world, you can come out and do your own business
and you might just... you could stand even better
because you have experience and understanding
a firmer ground to stand on that could be also
one of the things I think that you know people
can take lah the route people can take yeah so
it's hard it's hard I don't think there's a I
think that if someone has passion and is able
to find a way to translate that into making a
living then by all means, go for it. But I think
there are people who grow to love what they do,
even though it's not their core passion. And
you find the joy and the satisfaction in doing
that. So then it becomes my passion and maybe
hobby. Right. I'm just lucky that... They aligned.
Yeah. And then we get to do... Like what I'm
doing here. Yeah. My passion, my hobby, but not
making money. Okay. We have some donation link.
Call 1 -800. Support Chris Hansen. The Chris
Hansen conversation benefit. Okay. When you officially
started TPP, the production people, man. I mean,
you know, I'm quite hazy about this. Though we've
known each other for a long time. The transition
from Ultimax... to TPP. What happened in between?
Or was it just a company name change? It was
Let's Go Pro. I think that was the point where
we said, this is working. So that's where you
decided that this is really a marriage. And then
I brought in a partner. He's my university classmate.
He came on board. He was already helping me on
gigs while we were in university. Terrence. Terrence,
yes. And then he came on board as a partner.
So I was like, okay, let's start a new company.
Let's try the GoPro. So by then you got a bit
cringy at this Ultimax. And so we needed something
a little bit more neutral. And then, yeah, the
production people was born. Everything back in
the day was a something, something production,
something, something productions. We were still
a very small company. The thinking was that if
we couldn't compete with the latest gear or the
most gear, somehow, I'm not sure how the idea
came about that let's focus on the people instead.
And so we said, let's call ourselves the production
people because then people would be like, so
how many speakers do you have? Like, it's okay
because we have the best people. It doesn't matter
how many speakers we have. And we wouldn't be
always kind of be the kind of be back of the
line in terms of ranking, right? So I decided
to just shift the focus. And until today, that's
very important because I think you will know.
You go on a show, no matter how good the gear
is and the people who are working the show are
not good people. You can tell, right? Okay. the
show doesn't turn out as good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's like a chef, man. A good chef and a bad
chef. Or a chef on a bad day who's got in a bad
mood and the food just tastes like shit. Same
recipe, but tastes like shit. And good ingredients,
but somehow tak kena, right? Something tak kena,
yeah. So, yeah. So that's where the production
people was born. Along the years, then when it
was time to incorporate as a private limited,
the idea was that if we shortened our name, and
because it was quite a mouthful, so, in the industry,
people are already calling us TPP. So I said,
okay, what if we shorten the name so it would
be faster and easier for clients to write our
name on the cheque so we could get paid first
because, you know, if they were going to pay
TPP Private Limited versus Super Fantastic Productions
Private Limited, it would be easier to write
us a cheque first and so we would get paid faster
versus somebody with a longer name, right? Bloody
hell. I know, I know. And then TPP probably hit
them as well. And yeah. So the production people
is the brand. We still operate as a brand. You
know, I tell, you know, I tell, you know, I want
to tell people or clients, potential clients
about, you know, back in the day, especially,
right? And I recommend you guys for AVL support,
right? And tell people, don't worry. this company
zero defect one no lah you never see only even
you see that's the thing sure got cock up but
we don't see the cock up that's the best part
you see yeah and I always say zero defect man
TPP really I hats off to you guys having a hat
investing in the right gear and then having a
dedicated team. Oh, great. You mentioned that
because this is my next thing here. Great gear,
right? TPP is invested in high -end equipment
like Robert Juliet follow spots and your IVL
photons, right? Let's take a look at those. Kai,
there you go. what box yeah the box IVR photons
yeah and then now we're gonna show you what these
guys these babies do Kai can you play those vids
please no the hell what the hell IVR right so
the The immersiveness is, the immersion is, your
audience is being immersed in the light. Is that
what you guys, is that what you do? That's what
it does. But I love those lights, man. I mean,
that's the reason why I wanted to showcase that
one here. You guys spend a lot of money on these
things. Yeah, they come out of a French company.
And again, I saw them in an exhibition. I looked
at it and I was a bit mind blown. I was like,
what's going on here? I've never actually seen
these things, right? Yeah. I had some interaction
with them earlier on when they had some older
products. But again, it was, how are we going
to use these on our shows, right? Not very mainstream.
Right. But I think for me, it was, what can we
bring? to market so that our clients have something
a little bit unique to differentiate their shows
so that audiences don't get sick and tired of
seeing the same show, right? Nowadays, every
show is a big screen, some colorful graphic,
nice big logo, and then lights all over the place.
This is a way to just, let's try something a
bit different. Do clients really listen or ask
about these kind of things? Are they interested
in even listening about this? Because we work
with the event companies. We work with some lighting
designers. Yeah, so I think it's just a way of
us as a provider keeping in touch with the trends,
daring to go where it's not mainstream. It doesn't
go out every day. It's not the biggest money
-making thing. But I think when somebody wants
to create a show that's slightly different, they
know we can deliver, right? So it's really about
working with our clients to be able to bring
something a bit different to their show because
then it helps them bring something different
to the end user clients. Right. It differentiates
away from everybody who has a very similar proposal.
Yeah, I'm going to have a very... cheeky question
to ask you. What is the single most important
thing that sets TPP apart from its competitors?
Don't be shy. We say what, we do what. Okay.
We say what, we do what. I think that's what
I hear from a lot of people that we are reliable.
Which... Why is that not happening more often?
Right? I think with anything, if you went and
bought a 55 -inch TV, you'd expect to get 55
inches, right? Yeah. If you went and you ordered...
Fuck it, I'm not going to... No, I mean, if you
ordered chicken rice, you would expect... Chicken.
But you will get your chilli, ginger, soy sauce.
Okay. So why are there clients who tell of their
experience where they don't get what they expect?
Either short change or under -delivered. And
I think I've always focused on that, that if
people are going to pay us X dollars, they should
get that exact amount back. in value of services
that was promised to them. And thankfully, there
are people who don't live up to that expectation.
Not so good for the industry. Thankfully. Thankfully
because they make us look good, right? They make
us look good. I wish there were less because
then it means the whole industry elevates. But
you always have to have... See the political
bloody correctness. I know, I know. But you have
to always have good and bad, right? If there's
good... If everybody's same, then who's better?
Right? So I think the fact that we've always
been reliable, we'll pull out all the stops that
we can to deliver what we've promised or what
the client expects and open about it. If there's
something that we know we can't achieve, we have
to early on in a good negotiation say, hang on,
I'm not just going to say yes because you're
a client, but this is just... It's not going
to turn out the way you're thinking, okay? And
sometimes we have to do demos. Sometimes we would
do a mock -up. Sometimes we advise the client,
no, no, no, this is not going to work because
you just think it's going to work. It's easy
for you to sell it, but I think we'll have a
problem. When you say client, you mean the event
company, right? And then sit down with them and
say, Here's a way we can fix the problem. Let's
have a chat about it. Sometimes we get on a Zoom
call and we talk things through. And I think
there are clients who appreciate that because
we understand the tech. They understand what
they need to sell. And so for us, helping them
to understand what we can do helps them to deliver.
Then we become sort of partners. So it's, yeah,
it's like, just go out there and do awesome shows.
And that should be the creed for the entertainer
as well. Go out there and do awesome. Yeah, I
mean, in my mind, that's what I think. Yeah,
agree. Let's talk about the Star Association,
shall we? The Star Association. Which you're
president of the association. I'm the default
president only because there hasn't been much
activity, sadly. I think... So STAR, for those
of you who are... Correct, yes. A little bit
of background, right? Background, yeah. STAR
stands for Singapore Talents, Artists and Resources.
Quite a mouthful, but it was started off for
the entertainment industry, live events, entertainment
industry, as opposed to sort of like the arts,
right? Because it was kind of there was a gap
between the arts and what about people in entertainment,
in live events, right? So the association was
started, not by me. I came on a little bit later.
Dinde was the president for me. Those of you
who know him, great guy. I cannot arrow. I picked
it up and I said, okay, yeah, let's try and do
something for our industry. I think it was, well
not I think, I know it was started off for the
industry to have a collective voice so that we
would be able to champion the rights of practitioners
within the industry. And I think there was some
good that has come out of it. We used to do in
the early days some courses and training. There
were some early courses on very basic AVL to
help. events people or people who were not in
AVL understand AVL a bit better so they could
get themselves out of a fix of like if they were
on a small show and there was nobody there and
the system was giving some issues they understood
a little bit right we did a couple of rounds
of legal training so that people will understand
the law the rights and remedies yeah Law, contracts,
and how if they were being bullied by a bigger
client, they could stand up for themselves. Yeah,
it was bits of stuff like that. And then, of
course, we all know 2020 came along. End of 2019
came along. We all know what happened then. And
thankfully, because we had an association, the
association is officially active. It's a registered
society in the registrar of societies. We file
tax returns every year. We pay very little tax
because we're not collecting membership fees
anymore. But I do think it's something worth
reviving. Maybe I have overstayed my welcome
and definitely open to... younger generation
willing to work with the pioneers and say, where
can we bring this? I think the landscape has
changed a lot after COVID. But during COVID,
because there was an association, there was an
ability for people to come together and say,
what can we do collectively? We could rally people
together. I think many of you in the industry
are... on chat groups. The WhatsApp chat groups
with the resources, freelancers, EOs, was really
a way to quickly bring people together to get
feedback on the issues people were facing so
that we could take this up to authorities and
get help for the industry. I won't say, I won't
dare to say we totally nailed it. But I am quite
proud to say that I think we did play a part.
No, not we. I mean, I would say we generically,
that the fact that it was an association allowed
us to quickly pull people together and get help
for people. who need the help. Yeah. Who were
facing these things that were unprecedented,
right? Yeah. There was a lot of feedback going
on almost every week. I would be on a Zoom call
with NTUC. We were figuring out ways. We were
sharing job opportunities. There were people
who were being social distancing ambassadors
with the red shirts. There were people who were
helping taxi drivers process their claims sitting
in the... I don't know where they were, but they
were getting paid doing that, right? The government's
way of, let's find work for people. So we paid.
They didn't want to do straight out handouts.
They had the grants. Some people were like, oh,
but we are single company owners. We lobbied
for it. And then on a subsequent budget, it was,
yes, we'll let directors be eligible for the
grants as well. Yeah, so there was quite a bit
of work that was being done. There was a lot
of help from the authorities. And the fact that
the community still exists today, I think just
is testament to the fact that having a grouping
is important. I think today things like training
and upping the standards, we did a couple of
rounds of rigging training as well to help so
that there wouldn't be so many accidents. Whether
that is maybe the focus or really looking at
where people don't have somewhere to turn to.
and having an association as that sort of safety
net of saying, can we maybe build some funds
that if people have a family issue and they don't
have enough insurance, can the association, can
we help our own, right? It's one area we've thought
about. But yeah, I think as COVID started to
ease off and shows started coming back, everybody
was busy trying to get their lives back in order,
trying to, and it's a long thing, right? Like,
is COVID a thing anymore to anybody? Don't think
so. Right? Not many people are afraid, right?
But there's long COVID, right? Yeah. And there's
long COVID, right? Yeah. Business owners. I am
still paying loans that were taken during COVID
to keep the business alive. So that's my long
COVID. But it's fine, right? Because work has
come back, everybody's back to work, renewed
passion. But it's something that had such a great
impact because all of them were five -year loans.
They're mostly finishing soon, but still within
five years, right? So there was that big impact.
But I think at that moment where it... Everybody's
world came crashing down. There was an ability.
I conducted a few town halls when nobody can
meet. I did online from home, did some town halls.
Every time there was a budget, we would sit together,
figure out anything we didn't understand. We'd
ask NTUC for help. And then I would put up some
slides. I did a town hall on Zoom. just to help
everybody navigate the space help everyone to
understand because a lot of people in the business
were either freelancers or small business owners
so nobody was trained to deal with any of this
right so it was just us guiding through okay
if you have a rental dispute this is what the
law says we helped to write some letters that
caught some people their benefits while landlords
were not willing to do it yeah we had some I
think a small handful of people that got their
contracts cancelled were refusing to get paid.
We lobbied that back up and said, come on guys,
you have to honor contract. Thankfully, it was
like sort of government linked hirers that were
not doing that. We raised up the issue. Those
guys got their 50%. So there was some good that
came out of it. Could we have done better? Well.
Hindsight, right? 2020. Yeah, hindsight 2020.
But I think that there is still value in an association.
We've not really been in touch with NTUC so much,
but I feel the challenge because the events and
entertainment industry is very, very diverse.
It's a very wide industry with many, many trades,
with many, many different people doing different
things, but all with the same end goal. There
are people who do a few different things. And
so the challenge has always been for the authorities
to understand us. Because there's that, how do
we help the freelancers? but the business owners
need help as well. So to them, okay, then you
should start a business association. And I said,
yeah, but sometimes the business owner on the
weekend gets hired to emcee somebody else's show
and everyone's fine with that. So we need to
help him as well because one day he's a freelancer,
another day he's a business owner. Yeah, it's
a very dynamic space. It's a very diverse and
very complex industry. But it just shows how
much... talent, how much adaptability we have
within the industry. And so it's very hard to
pinpoint. I think it's safe to say that during
that crisis, the COVID crisis, associations,
a lot of associations were responsible in very
large ways in helping out their members, including
the Singapore Nightlife Association, you know,
what they had to do to help the clubs and pubs
and bars. And then now I'm hearing from you about
Star Association and helping out the... the members
there and I think we only start to realise the
importance of associations especially of your
own respective trades you know until we come
into this kind of crisis when shit hits the fan
yeah when shit hits the fan now I'm just gonna
end off very quickly walking out NUS And then
at 49, you decided to return to school at Republic
Poly. Okay. Why? I did, I did. Because very free.
What the fuck? Very free. Okay, so some background.
The chair of the course. Jackie, who was a lecturer
at RP, was actually, his previous job, he was
a client of ours. Okay. So he got into the school
and they were running this course and he said,
hey, do you want to send some of your guys? So
I said, okay, maybe I'll send a guy. I was like,
can I send myself? And he's like, yeah, you want
to go? And it was, What course was this? It was
a specialist diploma in immersive technology
for business. What is that? Right? Immersive.
Today, it's a word that's being thrown around.
It was 49, it was about three years, four years
back. It was a new thing, right? It was a new
thing, maybe not really new, but I thought, okay,
we didn't have really much work. There was a
lot of work that was still going on in the studios.
We still had to wear a mask when we went to school.
There was a day where we do online classes on
Teams and then a day where we would go back to
school on the weekend. So then there was some
practical. But I really benefited from it. What
is this immersive technology thing or immersive
reality? It was them trying to say, okay, let's
train about immersive and have people to understand.
It was how can you... It wasn't one thing. There
were a few different modules, but we learned
about audio. We learned about... lighting, we
learnt about gamification, we learnt about virtual
reality, we learnt about place making. Not emerging,
it was really and part of it was also exploring
what immersive really meant. Of course, today
you think immersive, it's a little bit overused,
but it was about It's bringing people into an
experience. Oops, sorry. No problem. That's immersive.
No, it's not. It was about bringing, how do you
understand all these different elements to bring
people into an experience rather than just watching
an experience, right? Okay. And we learned things
like storytelling. We had to learn how to write
script. Okay. Because the whole idea was that
how do you bring someone into an experience?
if you don't have a story. Okay. So there were
all these elements, right? So with storytelling,
it was script writing and storytelling. It was
how do you write the script? How do you understand?
Sounds more like an arts course than anything
else. Right? No, but then there's that whole
element of virtual reality. How do you work with
360 cameras? Okay. How do you build virtual environments?
Did you enjoy it? Oh, I enjoyed it so much. It
was a part -time program. Yeah, it was a part
-time program. How long was it for? It was two
days. It was, I think, almost a year. A year?
Yeah. And it's a diploma? It's a specialist diploma.
Oh, wow. That means I'm at the top already. Oh,
not bad. You got a diploma. I got, I think I
got the highest GPA. Really? I topped the class.
Yeah, you went for a bloody honours program.
I flunked the honours, so I worked hard on the
diploma. Better get the highest GPA. But it taught
me a lot because I understood. how to see my
work from a different perspective. Okay. It talked
about, we learned about, about, about people.
I mean, there's a, there's a module about gamification.
Like, what is gamification? What's gamification?
Gamification is how you, how you turn experiences
into game so that people interact. And when people
interact with, with something that they're doing,
there is that element of getting deeper into.
the topic right it's how you know when you when
you buy something and then they say oh click
here to play a game and you spin you get some
points yeah yeah yeah you spend more time you
get more exposed to the app yeah and and with
any other different things if you if you if you
go out and say uh let's put up a road show and
let me put five posters to tell you about something.
But if you create some activity behind it, that's
gamification. You're turning that messaging into
a game. When you involve people, that is also
immersiveness. So it was really exploring the
definition of immersiveness and how every different
element, there's no right and wrong. It wasn't
a, here's what immersive is, right? But it helped
me to understand so much about looking at the
work that we do, bringing experiences to audiences,
not just from a, here's what I do, but here's
what people are receiving. And then challenge
your notion of how can I do that better? How
can I work with people who are more talented
to improve that experience, to make that experience
a lot more multi -sensory, all -encompassing.
Immersive is not just, projectors all around
right everything can be made to be a bit more
immersive oh yeah now i understand the reason
why you bought those lights yeah so that helps
but but yeah there's just so much so much involved
with it it was uh it was very good very good
and then obviously the nice offshoot was that
they did some news publicity to kind of because
i was i think i was the second oldest guy so
they had me on for like the lifelong learning
you see you can be an older guy and still come
for continuing education oh boy that was a good
one that was a good one okay what's your personal
vision for the future last question okay we have
a vision for both for yourself and for TPP just
keep doing awesome man Keep doing awesome. That
was a great one. We ended the video especially
with that, you and me. Oh, yes, yes, yes. In
the office, yeah. I think people get too hung
up on what's my goal, what's my vision, right?
I think it should be a guiding principle and
you stick by it, then... then the goals just
come naturally, right? I mean, yes, you can set
financial goals. You can set some milestones,
right? That's the difference between our generation
and the rest. We live by these sort of values,
by principles, not by a goal set. Like in my
school, you know, they tell us, be true, be strong,
be brave. You know? And you just live by... Values
and principles, you know, and precepts, you know
what I'm saying? Anyway, I'm going to do this
for you. Kai, can we flash the good people of
TPP? What people are? There you go. Yeah. And
there you go. The crew and Sheldon Gui. We have
some hires that missed this photo shoot. Sorry,
that is all I could get. Yeah, I know. That's
a good reminder. I have to get the new photo.
My apologies to those guys. But this is TPP,
everybody. If you need to really find people
that you can trust to take care of your AVL needs,
your audiovisual lighting needs, these are the
people you go to. Okay, go. and fine tpp and
i can tell you one more one thing again this
is not a paid promotion by tpp for us to have
this have them on the show we don't have that
kind of money Not at all. This is not what it
is, okay? Paid promotion for the fact that we
are friends for sure, so that's the reason why
I always check off. Yeah, it's a paid promotion,
but it's not because of TPP. It's for the good
people from sure, okay? Can see that. Can see
that. I think so, yeah. Okay, very good. Because
I'm blind as a bat from this distance. Okay,
now, everybody, thanks for watching the Chris
Hansen Conversation. And thank you, Sheldon,
for spending this time with us. It's been a long
time beating up our asses on our seats here.
Spending time talking, but it's been great. I
hope you had fun. I had fun. Thank you. Thank
you for listening. I hope we didn't bore you
too much. No, I don't think my shows bore people.
Some of you think it's boring. Well, you know,
you can always go watch some other podcasts.
You know, it's fine. It's a good one. It's a
good one. Stay on this channel. So, thank you.
So, again, for those of you who've tuned in,
thank you very much for tuning in to the Chris
Hansen Conversation. We'll be back again next
week. We're continuing on with our I Love My
Job series and loads more, loads more, loads
more episodes to go. And... Well, fingers crossed
that over the next couple of weeks, we will hit
platinum, the silver button. It could be on the
way. We really, really hope so. And once again,
thank you to all of our subscribers for still
staying true to our show. Until the next time,
stay safe, everybody. Bye -bye. Bye -bye. right
here from Singapore.