WEBVTT

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In this episode of the Chris Hansen Conversation,

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we have decided to produce an unprecedented blend

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of our series, I Love My Job, and tribute to

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SG Music icons, as we have a true luminary of

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Singapore's audiovisual and events industry.

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The Managing Director of TPP Private Limited

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Order Production People, Mr. Sheldon Gui. Sheldon's

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story is an unconventional one. It's a tale that

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began with a youthful passion for music and parties,

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which he bravely turned into a business venture

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known as Mobile Discos. From there, he began

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building what would become one of the industry's

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most respected companies, the production people.

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But it was a pivotal personal moment that truly

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defined his journey. While in his final year

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at the National University of Singapore, Sheldon

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made the courageous decision to withdraw from

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his studies to focus entirely on his business.

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Today, that same entrepreneurial spirit extends

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beyond his own company. Sheldon is also the President

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of the Singapore Talent Artists and Resources

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or STAR Association, a national body that champions

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the interests of freelancers and performers in

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the entertainment industry. And in a move that

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truly shows his commitment to lifelong learning,

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He even went back to school at 49 to master new

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technologies, ensuring he and his company remain

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at the forefront of the industry's future. His

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is a story of determination, of building a business

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and a community from scratch, and of being a

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true champion for the people who make the shows

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happen, both on and off the stage. We pay tribute

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to a man who truly loves his job and is an icon

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in his own right, Sheldon Gwee. Thank you. We

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say what we do. I think that's what I hear from

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a lot of people, that we are reliable. With anything,

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if you went and bought a 55 -inch TV, you'd expect

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to get 55 inches, right? Yeah. If you went and

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you ordered... Fuck it, I'm not going to... No,

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I mean, if you ordered chicken rice, you would

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expect... Chicken. Here is an important announcement.

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AFCHENSON to get limited Shure merchandise with

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your purchases. Now, let's start the show. No

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shit. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do I have MC voice? Good

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evening, ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen.

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Gentlemen. Wow, this was, brings back memories

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of another legend. Who? Jason Gilakatong. Who?

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You remember this guy? No, who the hell is that?

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Jason Gilakatong. Wow. Who's Jason Gila Gatong?

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His name is Jason Cheng. He's a big size guy.

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He was an MC. He had this routine where he would

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do a Miss Universe pageant. Why does that ring

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a bell? It was really funny. He was so good.

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Big guy, right? Jason Cheng. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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His stage name was Jason Gila Gatong. And I used

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to, I DJed at D &D's when he was MC. And I, till

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today, right? This is early 90s. But till today,

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I remember he would we would do like guess the

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tune and in those days we would be playing records

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right right right one tune one tune one tune

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one tune and then you had a fanfare for the winner

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yeah and then okay you start packing your records

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and you find background music yeah yeah yeah

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he would thank the crowd we'll see you later

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he walk off the stage and tell me fuck you lah

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your BGM so slow he couldn't stand any dead air

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oh is it yeah it just taught me the precision

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you know of even just as a DJ of like, it was

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important to get the background music going and

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then go do your own thing, right? I was like,

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wow, to today I remember that. So, no dead air,

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right? No dead air, yeah. Quite frankly, I can't

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stand it. Jason Gilakaton. Why is he called Jason

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Gilakaton? I don't know. I don't know. Is that

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his stage name or what? Or is that what people

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call him? People called him. What people called

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him. But that name rings a bell. Okay. Anyway.

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Hi, everybody. Welcome back to the Chris Hansen

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Conversation. We are here for a very first time

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that we're going to be doing this. This is the

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very first time ever we're doing this on the

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show. And this show is not just about the I Love

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My Job series. It is also a tribute. A tribute

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to an icon. Because you know why? Usually we

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just do I Love My Job or... the tribute to sg

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local music icons uh but today i for this gentleman

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of mine my guest in the studio i gotta do both

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one is i gotta we're going to find out about

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his passion about what he does and he's been

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doing for this for a long time and also because

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he's one of the uh enablers of the music business

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uh and the events business and the entertainment

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business And enablers ought to also be recognized

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and therefore I'm also paying tribute to him.

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And I have in studio with me the Chief Kahuna,

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the head honcho, for a company called The Production

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People or TPP for short. And Sheldon Gwee is

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in studio. Welcome to the studio. Thank you for

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coming to CCB TV. Thank you for having me, Chris.

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Not at all, man. Thank you for having me on CCB

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TV. And a very good day to all of you, ladies

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and gentlemen. Thank you. for tuning in. How?

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Okay? Good, man. Brings back a little bit of

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memories. What icon are you talking about? Icon,

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bro. Actually, it's true, bro. It's the first

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time. It's the first time. It's not even a crossover,

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man. It's the first time that I have. I love

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my job and tribute to SG Music icons all in one

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show. And because I want people to hear about

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your passion for the AVL business. I agree that

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I love my job, but I will humbly say that you

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really cannot consider me an SG Music icon. What

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icon are you talking about? Because, bro, it's

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not just for musicians. It's also for people

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who enable the music business. And you are one

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of them. And I can say that for a fact because

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you've done so many things. You supported a lot

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of my shows, man. over the years and a lot of

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others as well. Yes, yes. Many, many, yes. Two

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hands cannot count one. Many, many. Because it's

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been 30 years. Easily. Easily 30 years. This

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man has been around for ages, let me tell you.

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And if you take a look at this, later on, earlier

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on, you've seen the video that we played. We

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paid a visit to Sheldon at TPP's premises. I

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can tell you, man, I can tell you that video,

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if you've seen it, this is like walking into

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a Toys R Us. And we all go gaga over, oh gosh,

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look at all this. And it was just pretty amazing,

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man. Pretty amazing, man. Thank you. Really,

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really. And that vintage collection of yours?

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Yes. Yeah. And you're collecting all of the vintage,

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let me just make it very clear, guys. Vintage

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audio visual systems. Yes. Right? Is that the

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right way for me to describe this? Yes. It's

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a... The informal name is the AVL Heritage Gallery.

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It started off really coming, well, coming out

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of COVID where a lot of fellow AVL friends were

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getting rid of gear to scale down the space because

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not enough jobs and you're paying rental on warehouse.

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And I felt there was quite a bit of emotion.

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People were throwing away gear that they used

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to work with, that they built their businesses

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on, but they couldn't hold on to it any longer.

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And seeing that on like Facebook, Instagram,

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I felt like this is very sayang because there

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were quite a lot of iconic stuff that I felt

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with all their history, today will have a double

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purpose of bringing back the memories for the

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old timers, as well as giving a sense of history

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and perspective for the younger folk that are

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coming to the industry right uh you you have

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like analog consoles you know a knob for every

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aux yeah not for every eq totally unheard of

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right everybody's digital screens looking and

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mixing uh i'm not knocking the younger engineers

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but but a lot of people tend to look and mix

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rather than listen and mix. Yeah, but back in,

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back in our day, it was all, it was all tactile.

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Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah. I mean, I love playing.

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We had to look as well. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

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I love playing with knobs, but anyway. Yeah,

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so, so. So you got this, you got all this collection.

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We, we seen your collection. It was on the video

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as well. And, and you want to start a museum

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eventually? Is that in your, on the cards? It's,

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it's my bucket list. Ah. Whether I eventually

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get there or not, I don't know. Okay. But you

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never try, you never know. Yeah, exactly right.

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With every journey, what did Confucius say? Every

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journey starts with the first step. The journey

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of a thousand miles starts with the first step.

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Very good. Yeah, and you know, I think I'm going

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to cheer you on to do that. Hopefully you have

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a gallery, really set up a gallery, open to the

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public. People can come in, pay tickets. Yes

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It won't be free So you see SG Music Icon Okay

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lah This is what I mean This is what I'm talking

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about Not SG Music Icon SG Music Supportation

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You're correct Enabler bro That's why I'm saying

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You see ya This is my series. It's up to me how

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I want it. It's Enabler, bro. Like Dennis Foo,

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Enabler. I had him. I paid tribute to him. Yes,

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I saw a bit of that. Nathan as well. You know,

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Harry's Bar, right? And he was an Enabler as

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well. People, and even radio DJs. So, people

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who enable the entertainment world and music,

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per se. in this country. And people like you

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are like, even Reggie Leo, he's a guitarist,

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I told him, you're always in the background.

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Sometimes you're in the front, sometimes you're

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in the back. But today, you've got to be in front.

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And guys like you, always in the background,

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man. Always, always in the background. And it's

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not fair. I think it's not fair because the kind

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of work you guys do is absolutely ridiculous,

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man. I always say, and I tell my guys, if people

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notice us, something must have fucked up. Right?

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That's one way of putting it. Yeah, because you're

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there, people are there to enjoy the show. If

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all the head children look at you guys. If somebody

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notices, you know, or either that or the talent

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has to call out, hello, Mr. Soundman, I cannot

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hear myself. Somebody didn't do their job, right?

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You know why? Because this show, that series,

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right? Andy, I love my job series. Let's talk

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about the tribute one first. Like, for example,

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guys like you, guys who are also the sound men,

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the sound engineers, you know, the guys who,

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in the background, tweaking all the sound for

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bands and stuff, and they go up on stage and

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play. These people are always forgotten, you

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know, and I'm not going to let that happen, man.

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As much like you, you think it's so sayang to

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have audio, you know, systems being just chucked

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aside or thrown away or discarded. You want to

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keep them because that's part and parcel of our

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event history or the event marketplace. You know

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what I mean? Same thing. I feel the same way

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for people. I applaud you for that. I think,

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yes, there is a need to recognize these people.

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But I think... From all the people that I've

00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:13.100
seen that do this work, they don't do it for

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the recognition. Yeah, I know. Right? They do

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it because they love what they do. They don't

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do just what they're told. They put in so much

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effort pre -show to work. I mean, the amount

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of questions I get sometimes, the amount of back

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and forth I work with sound engineers as we build

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the systems that we deploy on a show, it's like,

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wow, these guys are just... putting in so much

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effort to get the show absolutely perfect. That's

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become their passion, right? I want to make sure

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that everybody that goes on stage, they get to

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give off the best sound. The audience hears how

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this show was meant to be put out. The amount

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of detail they go in, the amount of research,

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you know, there are guys who are listening to

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the music, the songs beforehand, so they know

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where to put in the effects, they know where

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the solos are coming. In the old days, I think,

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well, okay, I'm not knocking the older guys,

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but there was a lot more of, let's wing it. And

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it'll be okay, right? But the younger generation

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now is putting in so much effort into all of

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this. Warms my heart, man. There's so much passion.

00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:21.799
Correct, bro. See, that's the reason why I feel

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that, you know, they may not want the recognition,

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but I'm sorry, I'm giving it to you. I'm going

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to shove it down your throats, man. I'm going

00:15:30.179 --> 00:15:33.039
to make sure you're recognized. And it's only

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right, it's only right that all the mechanisms

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that involve in a great show have got to be,

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you know, eventually come out and be seen and

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recognized and names have got to be uttered.

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You know what I mean? You and I, we've known

00:15:49.889 --> 00:15:52.250
each other for a very, very long time. As I said

00:15:52.250 --> 00:15:56.210
earlier, easily 30 years, man. And you began

00:15:56.210 --> 00:16:00.610
in the good old heyday. We call it even Larry

00:16:00.610 --> 00:16:02.830
Lai. Larry Lai is the first guy who started,

00:16:02.909 --> 00:16:08.750
by the way. Yes. Moby Dick. Mobile discos. Mobile

00:16:08.750 --> 00:16:14.789
discos. But I know that you started with spinning

00:16:14.789 --> 00:16:18.559
first, right? As a DJ. Or was it that or were

00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:21.500
you behind the microphone doing this thing that

00:16:21.500 --> 00:16:24.179
we used to call a Mikey? There are other people

00:16:24.179 --> 00:16:30.539
today called hype man. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely.

00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:35.960
My first touch into the industry was behind the

00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:38.779
mic. Yep. And can you explain? Beside the DJ,

00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:43.360
the DJ would play the music. Yeah. This was...

00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:50.299
I'm showing my age, 1989. 1989, right? It's an

00:16:50.299 --> 00:16:54.559
old friend of mine, Kati. Kati Kasant. Kati,

00:16:54.620 --> 00:16:57.000
still active in the business today. A company

00:16:57.000 --> 00:16:58.820
called Glasnos in the past, right? Back then,

00:16:58.879 --> 00:17:03.700
Glasnos. Today, it's a company called SLS. We're

00:17:03.700 --> 00:17:07.339
still in touch. We're still good friends. He

00:17:07.339 --> 00:17:10.660
would play the music on turntables with vinyl,

00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:14.839
those little black, brown things. for you youngsters.

00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:17.539
We used to call it Wax. Was it? But Singapore

00:17:17.539 --> 00:17:19.599
nobody lah. No lah. We call it Wax lah. No, back

00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:23.039
then. No, with Kati's brother Bear. I mean, his

00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:27.200
stage name is Bear. His name is Siva. Bear also

00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:29.099
used to call it Wax. He was a cool dude. Yeah,

00:17:29.099 --> 00:17:31.740
cool man. Yeah, I had fun with him. But, yeah,

00:17:31.859 --> 00:17:36.960
so, he would play the music but I think, I'm

00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:39.740
not sure why but he called a friend to come along

00:17:39.740 --> 00:17:44.420
on one of the gigs to do the hype mic. We didn't

00:17:44.420 --> 00:17:45.940
even have a name for it, right? Mikey, Mikey.

00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:48.200
Yeah, it was Party the Crowd. It was called Party

00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:51.799
the Crowd. What? Party the Crowd. Party the Crowd.

00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:54.180
Okay, whatever. And this friend of mine was my

00:17:54.180 --> 00:17:56.500
schoolmate. We were in junior college at that

00:17:56.500 --> 00:17:58.900
time. So it's like, hey, there's this thing Kati's

00:17:58.900 --> 00:18:00.880
calling me. Come along. Let's see. Let's have

00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:08.599
some fun. I had fun. I had fun. Okay. You knew

00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:11.670
how to do the Mikey thing already. I mean, you

00:18:11.670 --> 00:18:14.809
would go to parties, right? And then it was,

00:18:14.950 --> 00:18:20.890
everybody say yeah. Come on, clap your hands.

00:18:22.210 --> 00:18:26.890
Put your hands up in the air. Not so hard, what?

00:18:27.250 --> 00:18:28.970
There were no big words, right? You didn't have

00:18:28.970 --> 00:18:30.730
to use big words. You just had to have your timing

00:18:30.730 --> 00:18:34.069
right. Somebody scream. Right, right. You can't

00:18:34.069 --> 00:18:37.380
do that too often. But yeah, I was hooked. I

00:18:37.380 --> 00:18:39.559
was hooked. And I'm like, this is fun. Did you

00:18:39.559 --> 00:18:42.299
get paid for that? I did. And what was the money

00:18:42.299 --> 00:18:45.380
like, man? I did. I never knew how much my keys

00:18:45.380 --> 00:18:48.839
got paid. No, because I had to share it with

00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.039
this friend of mine. Okay, okay. So I don't think

00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:55.220
it was a lot. Yeah. But you know when you're

00:18:55.220 --> 00:18:59.119
17, 18 years old. It wasn't about the money.

00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:01.539
It was about, okay, there's something to do on

00:19:01.539 --> 00:19:04.890
the weekend. Okay. Let's go do it. And then you

00:19:04.890 --> 00:19:09.210
realize, hey, this is quite fun. And then you're

00:19:09.210 --> 00:19:13.589
like, hey, is there, you got any more of this

00:19:13.589 --> 00:19:15.869
happening again? I don't mind. Come on, have

00:19:15.869 --> 00:19:19.210
another go at it. And then after a while, my

00:19:19.210 --> 00:19:21.450
friend dropped out. And you started, you could

00:19:21.450 --> 00:19:22.730
too. You're having fun, why don't you do it,

00:19:22.789 --> 00:19:26.829
right? Okay. And then, oh my God. What was the

00:19:26.829 --> 00:19:29.289
money like, man? What was the money like? No,

00:19:29.309 --> 00:19:33.230
I think like $30, $40 maybe. Really, yeah? Yeah,

00:19:33.230 --> 00:19:36.720
yeah. But that was in 1989. My goodness. It's

00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:40.059
quite okay. I mean, when you're so young, you

00:19:40.059 --> 00:19:42.279
can go to Denny's and still have leftovers. Quite

00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:44.539
a lot of money. But of course, the show's end

00:19:44.539 --> 00:19:46.420
late, so you got to take taxi home. Yeah, yeah,

00:19:46.420 --> 00:19:48.279
yeah. No such thing, submit receipt, claim cap,

00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:50.160
or last time, don't have this concept, right?

00:19:51.619 --> 00:19:53.720
But yeah, so I'll be at the show, but you'll

00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:57.319
be there early. You watch the MC party, the crowd.

00:19:57.380 --> 00:19:59.000
These were always small gigs, right? Really small

00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:03.569
company, D &D, or like, passing out parade, army,

00:20:03.730 --> 00:20:05.690
police, that kind of thing. So small parties.

00:20:06.529 --> 00:20:10.549
But then, I was like, eh, I get to see all these

00:20:10.549 --> 00:20:14.029
young chicks all dressed up. My age group, right?

00:20:14.210 --> 00:20:16.210
Eh, you go school, you do. It's always about,

00:20:16.349 --> 00:20:17.950
first thing, it's always about the girls, man.

00:20:18.029 --> 00:20:20.289
Eh, all these girls dressed up. And then I realised,

00:20:20.470 --> 00:20:24.190
somebody did it once and I thought, eh, I can

00:20:24.190 --> 00:20:27.630
do that. It was, you go up to the banquet guy

00:20:27.630 --> 00:20:30.710
and say, I'm with the DJ, could I get a beer?

00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:33.220
he would very quickly give you a beer. Like,

00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:37.259
hey, I got a beer for free. So you got booze,

00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:38.920
you got the birds, you got the booze. I got the

00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:41.740
chicks. I'm like, this is not bad. I can keep

00:20:41.740 --> 00:20:46.680
doing this. And then, and then I think, I can't

00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:49.740
remember how, but I got my chance to get on stage

00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:53.299
and MC a show. Yeah. So I did a bit of MCing.

00:20:54.380 --> 00:20:57.339
And then as time went by, I thought, okay, I

00:20:57.339 --> 00:21:01.849
can do this thing on my own as well. Bought a

00:21:01.849 --> 00:21:06.450
secondhand mixer, turntables. Started buying

00:21:06.450 --> 00:21:11.529
records in those days. Valentine. The Valentine

00:21:11.529 --> 00:21:15.269
music? Valentine. It was in Far East. Way back

00:21:15.269 --> 00:21:17.910
then, yes. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Before they

00:21:17.910 --> 00:21:20.630
went to... And then in Bukit Timah, there was

00:21:20.630 --> 00:21:25.450
a record shop. It was... What's his name now?

00:21:26.769 --> 00:21:29.269
Laserbeast. Laserbeast, okay. Laserbeast, the

00:21:29.269 --> 00:21:31.440
guy. What's his name? I don't know. Okay, I forget.

00:21:31.779 --> 00:21:34.700
Jimmy, I think. I can't remember. But he had

00:21:34.700 --> 00:21:38.259
a record shop as well. And I would buy some records

00:21:38.259 --> 00:21:41.119
from him. I would buy some records from Valentine's.

00:21:41.579 --> 00:21:43.599
And then I'd be practicing at home. Eventually,

00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:46.640
there's one more called Dada. Dada, yes. But

00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:49.119
I think Valentine was bringing in a lot of the

00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:52.099
party music stuff. There was like the white label.

00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:55.579
Eventually, they moved to Paradise Center. Yes.

00:21:55.819 --> 00:21:58.910
In Sedigi. And you got... quite a good relationship

00:21:58.910 --> 00:22:01.450
with the shop guys that they will call you when

00:22:01.450 --> 00:22:04.329
there was new stuff coming in. DJs in the clubs

00:22:04.329 --> 00:22:07.049
will be picking up those records. I want to copy

00:22:07.049 --> 00:22:10.069
so that I can play that in the D &D as well.

00:22:10.230 --> 00:22:13.049
So fun. Yeah, it was fun. Freaking fun, man.

00:22:13.190 --> 00:22:17.849
And it was good music. I was having fun. Yeah,

00:22:17.890 --> 00:22:19.470
I think I was very lucky. And then it just kept

00:22:19.470 --> 00:22:23.150
growing from there. I did DJing. So did some...

00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:26.680
Did the audio. I stopped MCing because it's -

00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:30.119
Who trained you, man? I would - I mean, talking

00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:33.380
about DJing. Because Cathy was playing the music.

00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:35.940
He had a setup in his home. Right. So I would

00:22:35.940 --> 00:22:38.160
go to his house on weekends. We were in the same

00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.039
JC together. Okay. He was one year my senior.

00:22:41.180 --> 00:22:43.039
Okay. And I would go to his house on weekends

00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:46.980
and we jam. Practice mixing. He said, no, no,

00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:48.700
you got to get the beat right and then, okay,

00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:51.490
then learn a bit about - then you had to understand

00:22:51.490 --> 00:22:53.450
the music structure because just because the

00:22:53.450 --> 00:22:56.829
beat was right if one chorus hadn't ended and

00:22:56.829 --> 00:22:59.170
the other verse of the next song already started

00:22:59.170 --> 00:23:03.130
then so then you had to know when to start the

00:23:03.130 --> 00:23:05.890
snare mix bar mix yeah yeah and make sure that

00:23:05.890 --> 00:23:08.630
this and then over time you started getting more

00:23:08.630 --> 00:23:11.809
complex of how do you keep the outgoing song

00:23:11.809 --> 00:23:16.690
in the mix as the the new song plays how do you

00:23:16.690 --> 00:23:19.660
bring it out slowly rather than quick it's gone

00:23:19.660 --> 00:23:23.140
and all that tricks and a lot of people were

00:23:23.140 --> 00:23:26.680
very happy to teach or maybe they were scolding

00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:29.960
me I don't know but yeah I learnt a lot I started

00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:32.299
I started out with equipment I stopped I stopped

00:23:32.299 --> 00:23:34.359
MCing after a while because it just got too tiring

00:23:34.359 --> 00:23:37.460
because I had to go rent a van then go fetch

00:23:37.460 --> 00:23:39.799
my friends it was it was school days right and

00:23:39.799 --> 00:23:41.799
then if you're doing everything basically yeah

00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:45.079
and then pick up, load up the equipment, go,

00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:47.700
a lot less equipment than today's shows, right?

00:23:47.819 --> 00:23:49.980
You have one wireless mic for the MC, that's

00:23:49.980 --> 00:23:52.819
it. Two turntables, two speakers, one amplifier.

00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:56.519
Speakers are bigger than a normal human being.

00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:58.279
It would all fit in a little van. There would

00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:00.319
be some more space, two disco lights like the

00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:05.319
helicopter. It was so much fun. But then, yeah,

00:24:05.420 --> 00:24:08.420
I mean, having to set it up, then go freshen

00:24:08.420 --> 00:24:11.230
up. change and wear your coat and then wear jacket,

00:24:11.329 --> 00:24:13.349
do the show. After that, take off the jacket,

00:24:13.690 --> 00:24:17.089
spin the music. After finish, oh, shag, but still

00:24:17.089 --> 00:24:19.589
got to keep the cable, put all the speakers back

00:24:19.589 --> 00:24:21.549
in the van. Carry everything down. Go back home,

00:24:21.730 --> 00:24:24.390
put it back at home, trying to be quiet so neighbours

00:24:24.390 --> 00:24:26.450
don't wake up. And the Adam Road. And then go

00:24:26.450 --> 00:24:30.569
supper. And then after that, next day, go and

00:24:30.569 --> 00:24:31.930
return the van because you didn't want to pay

00:24:31.930 --> 00:24:34.190
an extra day of rental. Like, wah, cannot leh,

00:24:34.210 --> 00:24:37.329
pom chit. But yeah, then I kept on doing it.

00:24:37.490 --> 00:24:39.480
But that system was yours? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:44.200
I had a system. One of my early systems went

00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:48.119
up in smoke. When you say it went up in smoke,

00:24:48.220 --> 00:24:52.720
you mean it actually went kaput? No sound and

00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.039
smoke. Actual smoke. From where? From the speaker.

00:24:56.299 --> 00:24:59.000
The speaker not caught fire, but there was smoke.

00:24:59.059 --> 00:25:01.319
But smoke, smoke, smoke. Then the show stopped.

00:25:01.460 --> 00:25:04.680
The party had to stop. No, really. The party

00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:06.599
stopped. And then that's it. The speaker, no

00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:09.089
sound. Then the client? The climbers be damn

00:25:09.089 --> 00:25:12.289
pissed now. But there was already some partying.

00:25:12.369 --> 00:25:17.170
So it was a premature stop. And it wasn't a smoke

00:25:17.170 --> 00:25:21.490
machine, right? But yeah, yeah. I think after

00:25:21.490 --> 00:25:23.970
that, you know, I thought, okay, then we better

00:25:23.970 --> 00:25:27.349
focus on getting good equipment. But you went

00:25:27.349 --> 00:25:30.009
to buy the equipment. Why? Why did you do that?

00:25:30.130 --> 00:25:34.750
Why? You see, you went from Mikey to MC and then

00:25:34.750 --> 00:25:36.750
you decided too tired doing that. Then you ended

00:25:36.750 --> 00:25:39.170
up learning how to spin and then you went to

00:25:39.170 --> 00:25:43.269
buy equipment. I mean, I was making money. You

00:25:43.269 --> 00:25:46.109
could have just become a DJ spinning for some

00:25:46.109 --> 00:25:49.690
other AVL company or event company. Yeah, I don't

00:25:49.690 --> 00:25:51.730
know why. Backside itchy. You didn't have to

00:25:51.730 --> 00:25:54.819
buy equipment. Warehouse so big. Alamak. Backside

00:25:54.819 --> 00:25:58.980
Ichi. Dude, the warehouse is also like walking

00:25:58.980 --> 00:26:05.200
into Ikea, okay? I think there was a bit of me

00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:11.299
that was partly enjoying the music. Yeah. And

00:26:11.299 --> 00:26:13.819
there was also a part of me that was enjoying

00:26:13.819 --> 00:26:17.299
the tech behind it. Okay. So having the equipment,

00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:21.019
having the joy of kind of putting it all together.

00:26:21.299 --> 00:26:24.079
Right. And then, playing the music that you loved

00:26:24.079 --> 00:26:27.019
and then getting the reaction from the crowd.

00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:30.119
I think it was just all that combination. So

00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:32.880
it's like you needed to have the entire thing

00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:36.019
there to make sure that you just needed to have

00:26:36.019 --> 00:26:38.640
all these things to produce all of that sound

00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:42.240
and the music that you can spin. It was the love

00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.380
of the gear as well. Right? Okay, what about

00:26:45.380 --> 00:26:47.099
the love of the gear, man? Can you explain that

00:26:47.099 --> 00:26:48.839
to me? What do you mean? I don't know, lah. It's

00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:50.500
a very weird concept. Okay, okay. I'm weird too.

00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:52.599
I'm weird too. I was just telling Reggie Leo

00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:55.599
that I love going to Sweetie. I don't play any

00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:57.539
instruments. I love to be surrounded by instruments.

00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:01.599
You know? And back, right now, you know, this

00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:03.099
is the third time I'm saying it, but they have

00:27:03.099 --> 00:27:05.880
a cafe now, you know, right? They got an outlet

00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:08.920
in Clark Key. Ah, yes, yes, yes, yes. And you

00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:12.200
could actually buy cake, coffee, sit down, and

00:27:12.200 --> 00:27:14.140
then a turntable's in front of you. And then

00:27:14.140 --> 00:27:15.740
you can go and get records in the library. Then

00:27:15.740 --> 00:27:17.880
you sit there and you have an hour. You can sit.

00:27:17.900 --> 00:27:20.660
They give you an hour entitlement. Put on your

00:27:20.660 --> 00:27:23.420
cans and you play your record and you eat your

00:27:23.420 --> 00:27:26.200
cake, you drink your coffee. don't do much cake

00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:28.519
and yeah I know but you're surrounded by being

00:27:28.519 --> 00:27:30.359
surrounded by equipment and you have all that

00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:32.579
it's an ideal situation for me you know what

00:27:32.579 --> 00:27:35.859
I mean it's like me I don't know why I love being

00:27:35.859 --> 00:27:38.119
around musical instruments but like you you love

00:27:38.119 --> 00:27:42.599
the gear why? well I it's a weird thing it's

00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:44.759
a weird thing it's a weird thing even today?

00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:47.339
you still love being around? even today yeah

00:27:47.339 --> 00:27:51.500
I think it's the It's kind of how everything

00:27:51.500 --> 00:27:55.019
comes together. Right. It's an assembly. No,

00:27:55.140 --> 00:27:57.599
not an assembly. How you got to have the gear

00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:00.940
and then you have to have the talent. Then you

00:28:00.940 --> 00:28:03.599
got something to give to the audience. Right.

00:28:03.779 --> 00:28:05.940
And then the audience appreciates that. Then

00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:10.359
that creates an ecosystem. Right. And even much

00:28:10.359 --> 00:28:13.960
more when you understand that, you know, having

00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:18.279
maybe good speakers makes the sound more impactful.

00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:21.099
people enjoy the music a little bit more. Okay.

00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:24.680
Or, you know, can I, do I have enough channels

00:28:24.680 --> 00:28:27.980
on my mixer to put another wireless mic in? Those

00:28:27.980 --> 00:28:31.000
days you didn't. I mean, they did exist, but

00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:34.490
you didn't have like huge mixers in. in mobile

00:28:34.490 --> 00:28:37.509
disco right so it was DJ mixer you had turntable

00:28:37.509 --> 00:28:39.349
left turntable right but you needed a cassette

00:28:39.349 --> 00:28:41.789
deck because the dancers would show up for their

00:28:41.789 --> 00:28:43.849
opening dance with their tracks mixed on the

00:28:43.849 --> 00:28:46.089
cassette yeah yeah you need a cassette deck for

00:28:46.089 --> 00:28:47.609
that you need channel for that you didn't want

00:28:47.609 --> 00:28:48.910
to be unplugging they take pencil put inside

00:28:48.910 --> 00:28:50.410
the hole you turn the fella a little bit yeah

00:28:50.410 --> 00:28:53.289
yeah so Yeah, been there, done that, man. From

00:28:53.289 --> 00:28:56.650
the cassettes to the CDs and then some performers

00:28:56.650 --> 00:29:01.109
then moved into mini disc. Yeah, yeah. MD. You

00:29:01.109 --> 00:29:03.869
lah. You the one who told me to go and buy MDs.

00:29:03.869 --> 00:29:05.690
Yeah. I mean, you could record. An MD player,

00:29:05.869 --> 00:29:09.230
yeah. Yeah, so part of that was, I think the

00:29:09.230 --> 00:29:11.170
whole heritage thing was part of me as well.

00:29:11.289 --> 00:29:13.130
You know, how seeing all of that progression

00:29:13.130 --> 00:29:16.009
in the industry and saying, I have to share this

00:29:16.009 --> 00:29:18.269
with more people. So at that stage, when you

00:29:18.269 --> 00:29:22.559
got that first set and it went up in smoke, At

00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:24.900
that stage, when you decided to do that, was

00:29:24.900 --> 00:29:29.660
it because you've already seen that this is what

00:29:29.660 --> 00:29:36.799
you want to do moving forward in your life? In

00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:39.059
the short term, yes. In the short term? In the

00:29:39.059 --> 00:29:41.319
short term, yes. I think when you're young, at

00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:46.380
that age, it was after NS, I don't think you

00:29:46.380 --> 00:29:50.220
think about that far into the future. You don't?

00:29:50.980 --> 00:29:54.420
I didn't. I certainly didn't. You didn't know

00:29:54.420 --> 00:29:57.180
what you wanted to do yet at the time? No, I

00:29:57.180 --> 00:30:01.000
had something going, which was gigs. Clients

00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:04.259
were calling. We would do the gigs. We would

00:30:04.259 --> 00:30:08.259
listen to the clients. With that one set? One

00:30:08.259 --> 00:30:11.759
set. Of course, then we started going more and,

00:30:11.779 --> 00:30:15.559
you know, I have a show too. I'm like, oh, you

00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:18.420
have a show, but he has a show too. We need more

00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:20.680
gear. So initially you say, oh, I can't, I only

00:30:20.680 --> 00:30:23.380
have one set. I'm doing it for this guy. You

00:30:23.380 --> 00:30:27.000
realize he's got money to give me, right? What

00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:29.339
if I bought a second set? I could do both, right?

00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:32.619
And that whole concept just grew from there.

00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:36.980
And now I have not both, but three, four, five,

00:30:37.019 --> 00:30:39.740
six, seven, eight, nine, ten. If I ask you today,

00:30:39.859 --> 00:30:43.819
having been to your place, roughly how many sets

00:30:43.819 --> 00:30:46.740
can you actually put up in a night? Well, okay,

00:30:46.819 --> 00:30:49.940
we don't really go for quantity now. Because

00:30:49.940 --> 00:30:52.859
it's really about the quality. And I think today,

00:30:53.000 --> 00:30:56.440
the work that we do has become a lot more complex.

00:30:56.559 --> 00:31:01.059
A lot more elements that come into a show. Way

00:31:01.059 --> 00:31:04.059
different from just parties of the early days.

00:31:04.299 --> 00:31:07.799
I mean, there are still party elements. But every

00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:09.759
event is different, right? Okay, we'll talk about

00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:13.480
the complexities of... current day later let's

00:31:13.480 --> 00:31:17.400
go back to back then at that age when you were

00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:20.279
young and you had the first set went kaput then

00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:23.359
after that you got you got you had a replacement

00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:25.900
set I'm pretty sure after that right yeah yeah

00:31:25.900 --> 00:31:28.019
I went and bought another set of speakers it

00:31:28.019 --> 00:31:32.000
was speaker and amplifier PV With that time,

00:31:32.019 --> 00:31:35.480
it was already the CS1000 amplifier. Oh, the

00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:38.539
CS1000 PV. Not the 800. The 800 was the really

00:31:38.539 --> 00:31:42.960
heavy ones. But I got new PVM. CS1000. So you

00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:45.059
want to replace the 800 with the 1000? No, no,

00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:48.740
no. My old amp and the old speakers won. I don't

00:31:48.740 --> 00:31:50.259
even remember what it was. It wasn't anything

00:31:50.259 --> 00:31:54.819
famous that you would remember today. But yeah,

00:31:54.900 --> 00:31:58.240
so I got a pair of PVs. Went out there, did shows

00:31:58.240 --> 00:32:02.289
with it. Don't care. 50 packs, 200 packs. It

00:32:02.289 --> 00:32:05.210
was just the same pair of speakers. Just go.

00:32:05.450 --> 00:32:08.210
And nobody funded you for your business at that

00:32:08.210 --> 00:32:11.589
time? You had to buy all the equipment. No, my

00:32:11.589 --> 00:32:14.430
parents put in some money. Okay. My parents put

00:32:14.430 --> 00:32:18.890
in some money early on for the initial. I said,

00:32:18.910 --> 00:32:21.289
this is what I want to do. This is good. And

00:32:21.289 --> 00:32:24.250
I was getting paid, right? So I was generating

00:32:24.250 --> 00:32:28.309
small income. And then that just kept funding

00:32:28.309 --> 00:32:31.839
the business as it went along. Wow. So can we

00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:36.299
easily say that your folks didn't have an issue

00:32:36.299 --> 00:32:45.920
with you going into this business? Going in,

00:32:45.940 --> 00:32:48.519
not really. I think at that time they saw it

00:32:48.519 --> 00:32:54.519
as a youthful passion. Okay. So it's like, okay

00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:56.460
lah. It's like if your kid wants to ride bicycle,

00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:59.710
you buy them an expensive bicycle. If they like,

00:32:59.809 --> 00:33:03.009
I don't know. What else was expensive hobbies

00:33:03.009 --> 00:33:04.730
back in those days? I don't know, man. At that

00:33:04.730 --> 00:33:07.289
time, no computer. Yeah, I also don't know. I

00:33:07.289 --> 00:33:10.069
don't spend a lot of money. Or maybe some...

00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:13.960
gaming no lah no not even then where got games

00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:17.440
gonna play goalie last time game the game and

00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:21.619
watch game and watch or your on your watch also

00:33:21.619 --> 00:33:23.420
you got game boxing game or calculator boxing

00:33:23.420 --> 00:33:27.880
game yeah yeah yeah so and then of course because

00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:30.339
this was this was I was already doing it when

00:33:30.339 --> 00:33:35.210
I enlisted for NS yeah And then after that, I...

00:33:35.210 --> 00:33:37.930
Was it a business already by then? Was it an

00:33:37.930 --> 00:33:41.789
entity, a business entity already at that stage?

00:33:42.950 --> 00:33:47.470
Before NS? Yes, I think it was. So you did the

00:33:47.470 --> 00:33:49.970
whole shebang. You went to, at that time we call

00:33:49.970 --> 00:33:52.170
it ROC, and now it's Accra. Yeah, Anson Road.

00:33:52.369 --> 00:33:54.329
Yeah, you went to ROC and you incorporated the

00:33:54.329 --> 00:33:56.309
business. I did, yeah, yeah. Wow. What was the

00:33:56.309 --> 00:33:58.190
early days? Bloody hell, so young, you knew how

00:33:58.190 --> 00:34:04.630
to do that? Yeah, I don't really remember how

00:34:04.630 --> 00:34:09.650
I knew how to do that. But I remember in the

00:34:09.650 --> 00:34:11.289
early days, there were clients who would be like,

00:34:11.369 --> 00:34:13.869
so who's your sales guy? How come we always talk

00:34:13.869 --> 00:34:16.969
to you? And I was like, no, that means personal

00:34:16.969 --> 00:34:19.329
service. I'm very concerned about your show,

00:34:19.369 --> 00:34:21.230
so I will attend to everything. But true for

00:34:21.230 --> 00:34:23.369
the matter, there was no one else, right? Then

00:34:23.369 --> 00:34:25.269
when I showed up to the actual gig, oh, you are

00:34:25.269 --> 00:34:28.230
the, yeah, I'm passionate about making sure your

00:34:28.230 --> 00:34:29.750
show turns out well. So I'm personally going

00:34:29.750 --> 00:34:34.909
to set it up. I'm personally going to DJ. I mean,

00:34:34.949 --> 00:34:37.170
I'm sure people saw through it after a while.

00:34:37.289 --> 00:34:40.750
But then, then of course, then by then I stopped

00:34:40.750 --> 00:34:43.829
emceeing. So I wasn't working with end clients.

00:34:43.989 --> 00:34:45.989
I was kind of dabbling a little bit in event

00:34:45.989 --> 00:34:48.369
management. Wasn't even called that in those

00:34:48.369 --> 00:34:50.090
days, right? Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't even

00:34:50.090 --> 00:34:52.210
such a concept. We didn't even know what it was.

00:34:52.489 --> 00:34:55.250
It was called entertainment companies. Correct,

00:34:55.449 --> 00:34:57.630
yes. Entertainment companies back then. Yes,

00:34:57.650 --> 00:35:00.409
yes. Not EOs, not agencies. Correct, right. Entertainment

00:35:00.409 --> 00:35:02.570
companies. All those were unheard of terms, yeah.

00:35:02.809 --> 00:35:05.309
So, yeah, I think trying a little bit of everything,

00:35:05.369 --> 00:35:09.539
I realised, okay, if I did... the tech side of

00:35:09.539 --> 00:35:12.760
things I would still enjoy myself I would still

00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:15.039
be in touch but I could just do more of it and

00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:19.860
so I decided let's focus on that and then incorporated

00:35:19.860 --> 00:35:22.539
a business called Ultimax Productions if you

00:35:22.539 --> 00:35:25.139
remember that I do very cheesy name now looking

00:35:25.139 --> 00:35:27.679
back I thought we have to be the best of the

00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:29.780
best the ultimate of the ultimate the maximum

00:35:29.780 --> 00:35:31.679
of the maximum I mean dude a lot of names were

00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:33.980
cheesy back then they were what they were companies

00:35:33.980 --> 00:35:40.070
like Megaforce Hello. If that's not cheesy, I

00:35:40.070 --> 00:35:42.090
don't know what is. Yeah, I kind of maybe was

00:35:42.090 --> 00:35:46.309
in that vein of the max. I wasn't good enough

00:35:46.309 --> 00:35:48.670
being the ultimate. I wanted to be the maximum.

00:35:50.690 --> 00:35:54.150
Yeah, that didn't last too long. But yeah, so

00:35:54.150 --> 00:36:00.750
after I left university, I actually didn't complete

00:36:00.750 --> 00:36:05.510
university. Okay. And then I... Got a partner

00:36:05.510 --> 00:36:10.469
in... Wait, wait. Let's go back a little bit

00:36:10.469 --> 00:36:15.730
again. I like to cover stuff that's way back

00:36:15.730 --> 00:36:20.889
in history. It's so interesting. The performers

00:36:20.889 --> 00:36:23.389
and entertainers that you worked with, there

00:36:23.389 --> 00:36:27.269
were plenty way back when you started. Yes. And

00:36:27.269 --> 00:36:31.090
the early years of your business. If you take

00:36:31.090 --> 00:36:35.250
a look at those guys, then... you know just to

00:36:35.250 --> 00:36:41.409
name a few the guys that people like Buddy Lauren

00:36:41.409 --> 00:36:45.309
right which I remember that you used to support

00:36:45.309 --> 00:36:50.949
his show quite a lot yeah yeah and who else who

00:36:50.949 --> 00:36:55.769
else can we name from back then you mentioned

00:36:55.769 --> 00:36:58.739
earlier on about Jason Gila Katung. He was an

00:36:58.739 --> 00:37:02.519
MC. But we're talking about performers, entertainers.

00:37:02.599 --> 00:37:05.519
Ming. Ah, okay. Ming. She had Suzy Wong show

00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:08.360
for the longest time. Right. And then now she

00:37:08.360 --> 00:37:11.800
does the pole and all the acrobatic stuff. Is

00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:14.400
it acrobatic? No. I don't know. But yeah, really

00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:16.340
cool stuff. It's definitely not aerobatics. And

00:37:16.340 --> 00:37:20.199
she's amazing, right? She's gone through the

00:37:20.199 --> 00:37:26.170
business all these years reinventing. There was

00:37:26.170 --> 00:37:30.590
a season where X would come in for the D &D peak.

00:37:30.769 --> 00:37:33.789
They would be brought in. Foreign X. Foreign

00:37:33.789 --> 00:37:35.789
X. They would stay here for three months, four

00:37:35.789 --> 00:37:38.409
months. Guys like Russ Merlin and all. Russ Merlin.

00:37:38.489 --> 00:37:44.409
There was Bob Arno. There was Safri Boyz. Safri

00:37:44.409 --> 00:37:47.670
Duo is the African band, but there was Safri

00:37:47.670 --> 00:37:51.739
Boyz. They would jump around. Okay. Yeah, yeah,

00:37:51.739 --> 00:37:56.579
yeah. Yeah, yeah. And you would see them on Friday,

00:37:56.599 --> 00:37:58.980
on Saturday, maybe on Sunday at a family day

00:37:58.980 --> 00:38:00.820
because they would be just milking all the shows,

00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:03.059
right? They would make the best of the time that

00:38:03.059 --> 00:38:04.800
they had here. They were being sold to all the

00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:07.960
entertainment companies. They were being booked.

00:38:08.059 --> 00:38:09.739
They made their money. The agents made their

00:38:09.739 --> 00:38:14.739
money. It was kind of a nice... Nice time. Nice

00:38:14.739 --> 00:38:17.800
time, yeah. Compared to today, what's the difference?

00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:22.619
I'm not so much in the party scene today. I do

00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:28.199
a lot more corporate work. I think entertainment

00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:31.639
is still there. You maybe don't get as much of

00:38:31.639 --> 00:38:35.980
the foreign acts anymore. But there are a fair

00:38:35.980 --> 00:38:38.219
share of entertainers, people who go up there,

00:38:38.360 --> 00:38:45.760
do songs, stand -up comedy, magicians, the younger

00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:48.280
breed, right? And I think it's just evolution

00:38:48.280 --> 00:38:55.559
and people understanding what makes audiences

00:38:55.559 --> 00:39:00.699
click and tweaking the shows. I don't think some

00:39:00.699 --> 00:39:03.500
of those acts from the 90s, if you brought them

00:39:03.500 --> 00:39:07.219
back on stage today, I don't know if they work.

00:39:07.579 --> 00:39:10.820
Really? I don't know, right? And then whether

00:39:10.820 --> 00:39:15.050
you have that sort of... talent anymore. I'm

00:39:15.050 --> 00:39:17.670
not saying we don't have the talent. Say it.

00:39:18.090 --> 00:39:20.949
No, no, no. I think it is there. I think it is

00:39:20.949 --> 00:39:24.230
there. But there are many other options because

00:39:24.230 --> 00:39:27.610
it's about if you were going to bring in a foreign

00:39:27.610 --> 00:39:31.349
act, what is it going to cost? Yeah. How much

00:39:31.349 --> 00:39:33.309
are you going to have to sell that? What about

00:39:33.309 --> 00:39:35.769
the logistics? And then does it actually become

00:39:35.769 --> 00:39:38.730
viable? Maybe the difference here, Sheldon, would

00:39:38.730 --> 00:39:40.429
be if you look at the difference between the

00:39:40.429 --> 00:39:44.530
audiences way back when, compared to the audience

00:39:44.530 --> 00:39:50.289
of today, the reception towards these things

00:39:50.289 --> 00:39:57.789
are different, right? I... Yeah. What? I think

00:39:57.789 --> 00:40:01.750
people in general are a lot more high -strung

00:40:01.750 --> 00:40:07.349
today, myself included. Society has changed,

00:40:07.469 --> 00:40:11.199
right? People are not as carefree, a little bit

00:40:11.199 --> 00:40:15.679
more self -conscious, a little bit more worried

00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:19.820
about what they do and the outcomes of what they

00:40:19.820 --> 00:40:25.539
do. Stress levels just a lot higher. Well, is

00:40:25.539 --> 00:40:28.380
that the price of progress? Is that just a general

00:40:28.380 --> 00:40:34.340
societal shift globally? Is that because of media,

00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:36.679
the availability of media where people can...

00:40:36.989 --> 00:40:41.050
share ideas a lot quicker today be influenced

00:40:41.050 --> 00:40:44.389
by what they see or you get screwed over basically

00:40:44.389 --> 00:40:47.769
by social media too yeah I mean it's got good

00:40:47.769 --> 00:40:51.969
and bad right so when you have you said you're

00:40:51.969 --> 00:40:55.769
doing more corporate stuff right now so I don't

00:40:55.769 --> 00:40:57.050
know whether you would know or don't know because

00:40:57.050 --> 00:41:00.510
I'd like to know let's say for example a typical

00:41:00.510 --> 00:41:04.489
D &D which is typical D now, forget about dance,

00:41:04.670 --> 00:41:11.289
which I wish that more event companies and event

00:41:11.289 --> 00:41:14.309
management people would be able to sit down and

00:41:14.309 --> 00:41:19.130
plan a dance segment or dance segments into their

00:41:19.130 --> 00:41:22.789
show program. And I think it is highly possible

00:41:22.789 --> 00:41:25.480
for it to be done. But when these people, these

00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:27.500
guys attend a company dinner, because you know

00:41:27.500 --> 00:41:29.760
the bosses will say, oh, you guys did a great

00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:31.659
job this year. We're throwing a company party,

00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:36.079
you know, to reward you, have some fun, get your

00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:39.019
hair down. And do people still let their hair

00:41:39.019 --> 00:41:42.440
down? Or are they worried about their bosses

00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:44.480
and supervisors and managers looking at them?

00:41:45.500 --> 00:41:51.369
I think it's they want to catch the MRT. maybe

00:41:51.369 --> 00:41:54.710
maybe I don't know but yes yes yes in the in

00:41:54.710 --> 00:41:59.010
the old days we used to we used to always end

00:41:59.010 --> 00:42:02.670
shows past midnight definitely easily right easy

00:42:02.670 --> 00:42:06.530
and it was a kind of a contest on who could end

00:42:06.530 --> 00:42:08.170
their show later correct man you did a better

00:42:08.170 --> 00:42:12.139
job of keeping your exactly yeah today is a can

00:42:12.139 --> 00:42:14.119
we wrap this up quickly so banquet can clear

00:42:14.119 --> 00:42:16.039
up and get ready for tomorrow's event and the

00:42:16.039 --> 00:42:19.420
guys can go home faster. So everybody wants to

00:42:19.420 --> 00:42:21.119
go home. You're talking about, okay, you're saying

00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:23.840
banquet says shut down. No, no, banquet doesn't

00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:25.440
say shut down. Yeah, banquet doesn't say that.

00:42:25.539 --> 00:42:27.480
But people, I mean, of course, if a party goes

00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:29.500
on too late, if there's a reason, like there

00:42:29.500 --> 00:42:31.340
are weddings that go on too very late because

00:42:31.340 --> 00:42:33.460
everybody's in a very good mood. You've got a

00:42:33.460 --> 00:42:36.119
good DJ there. The music is good. Enough alcohol.

00:42:36.420 --> 00:42:38.400
Everybody's feeling really happy. It just goes

00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:40.869
on and on. Sometimes, they adjourn to an after

00:42:40.869 --> 00:42:44.989
party. Correct. Yeah. So, I think if it's a corporate

00:42:44.989 --> 00:42:47.869
party, then, I don't know, maybe people are a

00:42:47.869 --> 00:42:50.190
bit more quite opposite now. Before the wedding,

00:42:50.530 --> 00:42:52.409
people go back early. It's like, I still have

00:42:52.409 --> 00:42:55.449
to show up at work on Monday. Yeah. And should

00:42:55.449 --> 00:42:57.789
I really be partying or do I, or maybe people

00:42:57.789 --> 00:43:00.829
are careful about losing control of themselves

00:43:00.829 --> 00:43:03.710
if they party too much and like, will I be judged?

00:43:03.710 --> 00:43:05.550
There are a lot of judgements. Yeah, judgements.

00:43:06.130 --> 00:43:09.699
In the office, nobody knows. I'm like that. But

00:43:09.699 --> 00:43:12.960
why? But the interesting thing you said just

00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:16.880
now is about catching the last train. Let's examine

00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:19.840
this. Because the Grab. Yeah. Grab is Grab. At

00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:24.039
12 .30 from a hotel in Orchard. Taxi lah bro.

00:43:24.420 --> 00:43:27.039
Very expensive no. Taxi. Different from Grab.

00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:29.340
Yeah. Still a lot of money. That's how you want

00:43:29.340 --> 00:43:32.920
to claim. Look, we didn't pay very little either

00:43:32.920 --> 00:43:35.099
way back when. We're talking about the value

00:43:35.099 --> 00:43:40.639
of the dollar. But we all... Yeah. I don't know.

00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:43.619
See, this is the thing. We paid midnight surcharge

00:43:43.619 --> 00:43:47.599
too. I think people still go out to party. There

00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:51.599
are DJs from the old days sharing. They're working.

00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:55.519
Guys like Rico. Yeah. Working with the retro

00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:58.719
clubs. Yeah, Rico, Malcolm. Marky is always full.

00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:01.829
But that's... a bit different kind of entertainment.

00:44:01.829 --> 00:44:03.789
Yeah, it's a different kind of entertainment.

00:44:03.789 --> 00:44:07.510
Which is, I think you had some of that in the

00:44:07.510 --> 00:44:09.309
old days. Maybe we were young, we didn't know

00:44:09.309 --> 00:44:12.110
about it. I think. I'm sure there was, right?

00:44:12.389 --> 00:44:18.349
I can only think of Xanadu. Or Shinoa. Yeah,

00:44:18.349 --> 00:44:22.510
see? It did exist, right? I think society evolves,

00:44:22.849 --> 00:44:27.360
things change, right? And I... I think we have

00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:30.300
to change from our generation. We have to accept

00:44:30.300 --> 00:44:33.559
that the landscape will be different. What we

00:44:33.559 --> 00:44:37.539
used to enjoy, the newer generation may not enjoy

00:44:37.539 --> 00:44:40.460
in the same way. We can try and bring it back.

00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:42.679
I mean, the fact that you have some of the clubs

00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:45.820
that the older DJs are working in and playing

00:44:45.820 --> 00:44:49.199
retro music and you're getting older people because...

00:44:49.500 --> 00:44:51.739
they're bringing back their younger party memories

00:44:51.739 --> 00:44:54.019
right yeah they're going out there they're buying

00:44:54.019 --> 00:44:56.940
bottles they're keeping the businesses see after

00:44:56.940 --> 00:45:00.199
the older people like older than us and us as

00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:05.239
well when we are gone that's it but it would

00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:08.280
it would have given rise to a different dynamic

00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:11.659
now i hear people talking about Coffee clubbing.

00:45:11.800 --> 00:45:13.900
Coffee clubbing. Well, I really hate that shit,

00:45:13.940 --> 00:45:15.800
no? I mean, I haven't been to one. This whole

00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:18.420
season has been nothing that we've been talking

00:45:18.420 --> 00:45:21.739
about. No, dude. It's just coffee, coffee. I

00:45:21.739 --> 00:45:26.239
don't get drunk and I feel, so I don't, you know,

00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:29.139
I keep healthy and then we can still go back

00:45:29.139 --> 00:45:31.039
home. It's still daylight. We can go for dinner

00:45:31.039 --> 00:45:33.159
after that and go back home. You know, don't

00:45:33.159 --> 00:45:34.699
have to worry about catching the last train,

00:45:34.780 --> 00:45:38.880
last bus. Okay, it's not a bad thing, right?

00:45:39.019 --> 00:45:41.119
Oh my gosh, you're being so politically correct.

00:45:41.619 --> 00:45:44.260
No, no, I mean... Fucking hell. Yeah, it's not

00:45:44.260 --> 00:45:46.760
what we partied when we were young. It's not

00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:48.300
how we partied when we were young. Dude, dude.

00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:52.119
But maybe we have to learn to... What's that

00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:54.500
thing, Kai, that people use for the dating app?

00:45:54.599 --> 00:45:58.219
What's it called? Dating app? What's the dating

00:45:58.219 --> 00:46:01.900
app thing called? I'm off the market. I know,

00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:03.420
I'm off the market too. That's the reason why

00:46:03.420 --> 00:46:05.599
I don't bloody remember the name of it. There

00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:08.239
is a dating app that is very popular around the

00:46:08.239 --> 00:46:11.260
world. What the hell is it called? Is it? Huh?

00:46:11.420 --> 00:46:13.739
Are you talking about Tinder? Tinder, that's

00:46:13.739 --> 00:46:16.099
right. Tinder. Back then, who the hell has Tinder?

00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:19.679
We would go out clubbing, go out to parties,

00:46:19.860 --> 00:46:25.039
and then we meet girls. Yeah, so, that's the

00:46:25.039 --> 00:46:26.760
thing, you see, there are a lot of different

00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:29.260
mechanisms today to achieve the same things.

00:46:29.789 --> 00:46:32.909
we would achieve when we went out partying. You

00:46:32.909 --> 00:46:35.030
see, the world has changed. What did we use?

00:46:35.409 --> 00:46:40.829
How did you, you know, last time, pager, you

00:46:40.829 --> 00:46:42.969
ask youngster lah, who knows what is pager now?

00:46:43.570 --> 00:46:45.869
That you have to put code. Well, the wonderful

00:46:45.869 --> 00:46:48.710
thing about that is that we would rather be so

00:46:48.710 --> 00:46:51.869
excited to meet this person face to face because

00:46:51.869 --> 00:46:53.769
we got a page on this person and say, I'm going

00:46:53.769 --> 00:46:59.010
to see you soon or whatever. I think change will

00:46:59.010 --> 00:47:05.230
always be there. Change is different, but it's

00:47:05.230 --> 00:47:10.909
not necessarily bad. I know I sound like being

00:47:10.909 --> 00:47:13.250
very politically correct. You sound so fucking

00:47:13.250 --> 00:47:14.530
politically correct. What are you talking about,

00:47:14.610 --> 00:47:16.929
man? No, no, no. Hear me out, hear me out, hear

00:47:16.929 --> 00:47:20.400
me out. It takes two hands to clap, right? So

00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:23.699
rather than us lamenting that the youngsters

00:47:23.699 --> 00:47:27.300
don't know how to party, why the oldster don't

00:47:27.300 --> 00:47:31.639
want to change? The oldster? We must learn. Look

00:47:31.639 --> 00:47:33.440
at my t -shirt, man. What does it say? What does

00:47:33.440 --> 00:47:37.920
it say? That's the problem. Stuck is always a

00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:40.380
negative connection. Stuck in the 90s. If you're

00:47:40.380 --> 00:47:43.079
stuck, something is wrong. Come on. Stuck is

00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:45.440
not the desired outcome in most scenarios. We

00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:47.840
grew up in the 80s and we rocked the freaking

00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:52.559
90s, man. Come on, man. So when we go out, we

00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:58.579
have fun. We let the youngsters, the 2000, 2000

00:47:58.579 --> 00:48:01.079
something, you know, now, the younger generation,

00:48:01.239 --> 00:48:05.130
right? my son lah, the Xennials lah. So you have

00:48:05.130 --> 00:48:07.710
to, you have to show them, hey, uncle used to

00:48:07.710 --> 00:48:09.769
like that. And then whether they look at you

00:48:09.769 --> 00:48:12.949
and they're like, look at you funny, boss. Look

00:48:12.949 --> 00:48:15.449
at you funny, okay? I mean, we had to learn this

00:48:15.449 --> 00:48:17.570
from the older folks, right? Our parents, our

00:48:17.570 --> 00:48:19.869
uncles. And we're like, no lah, now the music

00:48:19.869 --> 00:48:22.650
is like that, what, these old songs all, right?

00:48:23.399 --> 00:48:25.820
The older songs. No, I tell you what's great.

00:48:25.840 --> 00:48:27.559
The vintage songs. I tell you what's great, okay?

00:48:28.099 --> 00:48:30.219
My wife and I, we have this place that we like

00:48:30.219 --> 00:48:31.980
to go and party because they play our kind of

00:48:31.980 --> 00:48:34.880
music. And also because the people there, you

00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:37.280
know, we're so familiar with them, right? And

00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:41.079
I'll say it, it's at Mel's Place, Mel's Place,

00:48:41.260 --> 00:48:44.650
Restaurant and Bar in Katong. Okay. How come

00:48:44.650 --> 00:48:46.650
you never brought me there? Bro, you can come

00:48:46.650 --> 00:48:48.710
anytime, bro. I'll be there this Friday night

00:48:48.710 --> 00:48:53.170
if you want to join us. That's why. Tell you.

00:48:53.590 --> 00:48:56.750
So bands all play. I love that, right? I love

00:48:56.750 --> 00:48:59.929
the live music and stuff. No DJ, sadly, but got

00:48:59.929 --> 00:49:02.610
bands. At least not so bad. Yeah. Then the best

00:49:02.610 --> 00:49:04.570
part, it ends at 11 p .m. It's the final last

00:49:04.570 --> 00:49:07.269
set. I can go home early. Not because I want

00:49:07.269 --> 00:49:10.489
to catch bus. I drive car, okay? But it's because...

00:49:11.380 --> 00:49:13.420
I'm getting old. So I don't mind having a party,

00:49:13.460 --> 00:49:15.000
party, party. But the club closes or you leave

00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:17.760
at 11? The band, last band set ends at 11pm.

00:49:17.900 --> 00:49:19.719
What happens after that? People can stay back

00:49:19.719 --> 00:49:22.420
if they like. Where's the entertainment? There's

00:49:22.420 --> 00:49:25.420
no more entertainment. Oh, shit. Yeah. So not

00:49:25.420 --> 00:49:28.539
so good, right? That's the thing. Like what we

00:49:28.539 --> 00:49:30.820
were talking about earlier. Dead air, bro. Dead

00:49:30.820 --> 00:49:34.820
air. So, yeah. Maybe it's the cost, you know.

00:49:34.860 --> 00:49:37.480
There definitely is a cost. You've got to pay

00:49:37.480 --> 00:49:39.480
him a good wage. Correct. Definitely the cost.

00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:43.099
Sometimes they do have, they invite DJs to come

00:49:43.099 --> 00:49:45.480
and play and all that. You know, they do. But

00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:47.380
anyway, coming back to the point is that sometimes,

00:49:47.619 --> 00:49:49.440
you know, the place is filled basically with

00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:52.800
people about our generation and the ones before

00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:55.659
us. Okay? The older people. And we will, and

00:49:55.659 --> 00:49:58.820
people will dance and all that. Then the younger

00:49:58.820 --> 00:50:02.429
lot comes in. Then they look at us funny. And

00:50:02.429 --> 00:50:05.929
they start laughing and the old people are dancing,

00:50:07.050 --> 00:50:09.590
having a good time. They look at all these people,

00:50:09.670 --> 00:50:14.070
all these generation people are crazy. I'm like,

00:50:14.130 --> 00:50:19.889
screw you, dude. You know, come on. That is the

00:50:19.889 --> 00:50:22.130
generation gap. Get it on the action, man. Get

00:50:22.130 --> 00:50:24.690
it on the action, man. You know, like, I mean,

00:50:24.710 --> 00:50:27.190
what's wrong? So what, like your son, what is

00:50:27.190 --> 00:50:30.940
their action? He listens to music and a lot of

00:50:30.940 --> 00:50:32.820
these young guys like today, I realise like to

00:50:32.820 --> 00:50:35.840
listen to hip hop. But I'm glad to say that where

00:50:35.840 --> 00:50:38.980
he's concerned, he does also roll back the old

00:50:38.980 --> 00:50:43.300
songs because daddy here, you know, influence.

00:50:44.500 --> 00:50:46.480
And then all of a sudden, one day he tells me

00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:50.119
this, no, he tells me, I, no, daddy, I'm listening

00:50:50.119 --> 00:50:55.699
to all the white female songs. I say, what white

00:50:55.699 --> 00:50:59.230
female songs? What is white female songs? Come,

00:50:59.230 --> 00:51:07.429
enlighten me. Madonna. Mariah Carey. What's her

00:51:07.429 --> 00:51:14.010
face? Celine Dion. And I go, why? No lah, I just

00:51:14.010 --> 00:51:17.929
felt the mood to listen to white female songs.

00:51:18.969 --> 00:51:21.230
I didn't know there was a genre for white female

00:51:21.230 --> 00:51:23.329
songs. That's the thing. And then now I got hip

00:51:23.329 --> 00:51:26.150
hop jazz. I said, what the hell is that? You

00:51:26.150 --> 00:51:28.619
know, and I was so into hip hop. You know, it

00:51:28.619 --> 00:51:31.119
drives me up the freaking wall. And guess who's

00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:34.420
his number one artist? Favourite of all time.

00:51:34.739 --> 00:51:40.300
Kanye. Well, it's music. And he could even tell

00:51:40.300 --> 00:51:42.719
me once, and I wanted to really strangle him,

00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:46.739
better than Elvis. I tell you, asking for bloody

00:51:46.739 --> 00:51:50.659
trouble on damn Twitter. It's perspective, right?

00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:56.559
It's perspective. Anyway, I tell you. I think

00:51:56.559 --> 00:51:58.119
I want to go and find myself a little island

00:51:58.119 --> 00:52:00.199
somewhere and then go and get away from everybody,

00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:04.619
you know? Okay. No, no, no. You were saying that

00:52:04.619 --> 00:52:07.280
you didn't complete your degree. Did you or did

00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:09.780
you not complete your degree anyways? I'm so

00:52:09.780 --> 00:52:12.440
confused. I didn't, I didn't. So you did not

00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:15.260
graduate with a degree at all? I did not graduate

00:52:15.260 --> 00:52:19.920
with a degree. I did four years in university.

00:52:20.500 --> 00:52:25.579
I studied building. And the reason I started

00:52:25.579 --> 00:52:30.139
building was because it was a four -day school

00:52:30.139 --> 00:52:35.400
week. No lessons on Friday. So I could go and

00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:38.940
do some gigs every Friday and then do Saturday

00:52:38.940 --> 00:52:40.679
and then come back to school on Monday. I mean,

00:52:40.699 --> 00:52:42.880
who the fuck, bro, picks a bloody degree program

00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:45.179
because of that? Oh, but it was beautiful. I

00:52:45.179 --> 00:52:47.400
think I'm like almost the luckiest guy on the

00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:51.760
planet. And then, I think you're... Two and three,

00:52:51.840 --> 00:52:54.460
maybe. Yeah. Maybe just one year. I forget because

00:52:54.460 --> 00:52:58.559
it was all a blur. We had classes on Thursday

00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:03.260
that was drafting. Okay. So you didn't really

00:53:03.260 --> 00:53:05.519
have to use your brain, right? Okay. Getting

00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:07.820
into the lab, you would draw building plans and

00:53:07.820 --> 00:53:11.079
you learn a different thing each week. The class

00:53:11.079 --> 00:53:15.559
starts at 2 p .m. on Thursday. And back in the

00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:18.519
day, guess what happens every Wednesday night?

00:53:18.760 --> 00:53:23.840
What? On Jakim Street. Zook. Zook. Yeah. Mambo

00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:26.559
Jumbo. Mambo Jumbo, yeah. Every week, without

00:53:26.559 --> 00:53:29.519
fail, me and a whole bunch of university friends,

00:53:29.880 --> 00:53:33.559
we would be at Mambo Jumbo. We'd do the Midnight

00:53:33.559 --> 00:53:36.000
Madness with the Long Island Tea, the Bourbon

00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:41.000
Coke. And get enough recovery time, show up to

00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:46.199
NUS. 2 o 'clock. Sometimes half koyak. But never

00:53:46.199 --> 00:53:48.000
mind because the class wasn't intense. It was

00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:50.059
very practical, right? So you could pull through.

00:53:51.280 --> 00:53:55.199
And then Friday, no class. Okay, man. Quite sure.

00:53:55.380 --> 00:53:59.659
Good life, man. But I think I do have a little

00:53:59.659 --> 00:54:03.159
bit of regret because very idealistic, right?

00:54:03.199 --> 00:54:06.639
When you're young. And at the end of the four

00:54:06.639 --> 00:54:09.039
years, it was... You have to do your final year

00:54:09.039 --> 00:54:12.820
thesis. And it just somehow came, the briefing

00:54:12.820 --> 00:54:15.260
and the guidance from the lecturer came across

00:54:15.260 --> 00:54:20.340
to me as, choose your topic, go to the library

00:54:20.340 --> 00:54:23.559
and look for other people's work on the topic

00:54:23.559 --> 00:54:27.920
that you like. Copy, rephrase it, and then do

00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:31.119
your own version of that, right? I mean, yes,

00:54:31.219 --> 00:54:33.840
I'm simply finding it. No, no, no, but it was...

00:54:34.039 --> 00:54:36.440
Yeah, it wasn't copy and paste, right? But it

00:54:36.440 --> 00:54:38.940
just felt to me like... It's somebody else's

00:54:38.940 --> 00:54:42.360
work. I'm going to pick up information from works

00:54:42.360 --> 00:54:44.179
that have come before because you had to cite

00:54:44.179 --> 00:54:46.639
sources. Right, right, right. Put things together

00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:48.579
to come up with your argument, right? Because

00:54:48.579 --> 00:54:51.099
now, yeah, it was critical thinking and organize

00:54:51.099 --> 00:54:53.880
your thoughts and understand the subject matter.

00:54:54.039 --> 00:54:57.480
But stupid me in those days, I just felt, this

00:54:57.480 --> 00:55:00.079
is just copy and paste. Is that really an education?

00:55:00.400 --> 00:55:02.659
And I already was learning stuff, right? I was

00:55:02.659 --> 00:55:05.690
learning stuff. I was doing okay. My grades were

00:55:05.690 --> 00:55:08.590
okay. I could understand the stuff that was being

00:55:08.590 --> 00:55:13.829
taught. Yeah, but I just didn't do my thesis.

00:55:14.630 --> 00:55:17.250
I didn't hit the deadline. I said, no, I have

00:55:17.250 --> 00:55:19.250
nothing to add. You didn't do because you didn't

00:55:19.250 --> 00:55:21.730
want to do it or because you didn't want to do

00:55:21.730 --> 00:55:24.070
it? It was almost like a rebellion of like, how

00:55:24.070 --> 00:55:27.030
is that supposed to judge how good I am? I'm

00:55:27.030 --> 00:55:30.269
passing all my exams, but my grade, my final

00:55:30.269 --> 00:55:33.719
graduation depends on me. being able to copy

00:55:33.719 --> 00:55:35.900
and paste well enough. So as a matter of principle,

00:55:36.099 --> 00:55:37.800
you decided to just not do it? Yeah, kind of,

00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:39.480
kind of, kind of. Looking back now, I'm like,

00:55:39.619 --> 00:55:42.539
ayah, damn stupid. Why, why, why stupid? Because

00:55:42.539 --> 00:55:44.280
I could have just copy and paste, what? Then

00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:48.000
I got my degree. Right? But then again, you would

00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:50.320
have gone against your principles, what? Yeah

00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:52.840
lah, what? Principle or, now no degree. What

00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:57.199
the fuck? Now no degree. But you, but you, you.

00:55:57.320 --> 00:56:01.219
No degree, but I studied four years. Four years.

00:56:01.880 --> 00:56:06.019
But I was doing gigs while I was studying. I

00:56:06.019 --> 00:56:08.519
was having quite a lot of fun. I was learning

00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:11.980
things that actually are still relevant till

00:56:11.980 --> 00:56:14.639
today. We studied about building structures.

00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:17.679
We studied a bit about law in terms of building

00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:19.840
contracts. I understand a little bit about the

00:56:19.840 --> 00:56:22.800
law. We studied electricity. We studied about

00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:25.719
jamban, that one. I'm not so sure how useful

00:56:25.719 --> 00:56:31.190
it is. Yeah, but... A lot of things in building,

00:56:31.349 --> 00:56:34.050
when I work now in venues, I understand how buildings

00:56:34.050 --> 00:56:37.909
work. I put up structures overhead for equipment.

00:56:38.110 --> 00:56:42.010
I understand what to do, what not to do. Or when

00:56:42.010 --> 00:56:44.650
the professional engineer has some comments about

00:56:44.650 --> 00:56:49.349
our design, I understand what they're talking

00:56:49.349 --> 00:56:53.559
about, right? Rather than, which is also... Andrew,

00:56:53.679 --> 00:56:55.460
I don't know, back in the day, Spectrum, Andrew.

00:56:55.679 --> 00:56:57.219
Which Andrew? There are two Andrews. Andrew Wong.

00:56:57.920 --> 00:57:03.320
Andrew Tan. Okay, the tall guy. Who went on and

00:57:03.320 --> 00:57:06.789
studied. became an engineer. And today, I work

00:57:06.789 --> 00:57:08.809
with Andrew. Andrew does all the professional

00:57:08.809 --> 00:57:11.030
engineering. Do you still meet up with Andrew

00:57:11.030 --> 00:57:13.829
Tan? Yeah, we are in touch all the time because

00:57:13.829 --> 00:57:16.170
every time we have to endorse a structure to

00:57:16.170 --> 00:57:18.989
make sure that it's safe, Andrew does that work

00:57:18.989 --> 00:57:22.869
for me. Wow. So we still work together. Oh, wow.

00:57:23.150 --> 00:57:26.469
Andrew is an engineer, but Andrew was with an

00:57:26.469 --> 00:57:28.769
event company in those days, entertainment company.

00:57:28.789 --> 00:57:31.250
Yeah, just so you guys know, give you some context.

00:57:31.610 --> 00:57:34.429
30 years ago. Yeah. In the old days, 30 years

00:57:34.429 --> 00:57:39.409
ago, the two Andrews you're talking about, Andrew

00:57:39.409 --> 00:57:42.670
Wong and Andrew Tan, were the bosses of an event

00:57:42.670 --> 00:57:46.550
company called Spectrum Promotions. Yours truly

00:57:46.550 --> 00:57:52.429
was actually, I gave them my rights. So I was

00:57:52.429 --> 00:57:54.869
exclusive to that company for a good number of

00:57:54.869 --> 00:57:59.340
years. Okay, so wow, I've not seen Andrew Tan

00:57:59.340 --> 00:58:03.099
in... Yeah, we're still connected all these years

00:58:03.099 --> 00:58:07.059
later, doing slightly different things, but I

00:58:07.059 --> 00:58:11.579
like it that how as an industry, there are so

00:58:11.579 --> 00:58:14.039
many relationships that are forged. There's a

00:58:14.039 --> 00:58:17.400
lot of the work that we do that is very passion

00:58:17.400 --> 00:58:23.519
-driven. I mean, yeah, it's ultimate, right?

00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:26.969
You get to do... what you love to do and you

00:58:26.969 --> 00:58:31.170
make a living out of it. It's not true that every

00:58:31.170 --> 00:58:36.949
day is like, what do they say? If you work what

00:58:36.949 --> 00:58:40.389
you love. Every day is a vacation. Yeah, there

00:58:40.389 --> 00:58:42.829
are going to be shit days, right? Definitely.

00:58:43.050 --> 00:58:46.050
So don't believe all of that. But I think having

00:58:46.050 --> 00:58:49.280
some... Love with what you do helps you get over

00:58:49.280 --> 00:58:51.820
the shit days a little bit easier. Yeah, basically,

00:58:51.980 --> 00:58:55.500
it's like a little sunlight peeking out of the

00:58:55.500 --> 00:58:58.119
clouds sometimes when things go bad. Yeah, sometimes

00:58:58.119 --> 00:59:04.000
all clouds. Then you got to really find the sunlight

00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:07.460
or sometimes just wait. A very bright light that

00:59:07.460 --> 00:59:09.400
you probably have tons of in your warehouse.

00:59:12.300 --> 00:59:15.000
Shine it through. But if the power trips, then

00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:18.860
no light, right? Then I ask you, you left NUS,

00:59:19.099 --> 00:59:27.539
you, wow, man of principle. Okay, shut up. Left

00:59:27.539 --> 00:59:33.480
NUS. And then you decided that you would just

00:59:33.480 --> 00:59:38.639
continue with the AVL business? Yes. Yes. I was

00:59:38.639 --> 00:59:42.260
doing parties. And I think it just progressed

00:59:42.260 --> 00:59:46.380
naturally. We would do parties, doing the sound.

00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:51.019
In those days, lighting was very simple. And

00:59:51.019 --> 00:59:53.579
then... Then you have a client who would be,

00:59:53.719 --> 00:59:56.719
hey, we need some projectors, right? Because

00:59:56.719 --> 01:00:00.780
it started a trend of playing some games with

01:00:00.780 --> 01:00:03.739
the video. Yes, yes. Start of multimedia back

01:00:03.739 --> 01:00:07.159
in those days. It was silly things, right? Yeah,

01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:09.860
I hated it. You had it on VHS, right? I don't

01:00:09.860 --> 01:00:12.840
know. It was video in a tape, actual tape, right?

01:00:13.039 --> 01:00:14.579
There was even a time when they had a stupid

01:00:14.579 --> 01:00:17.340
robot. Was there a robot? There was a robot.

01:00:18.039 --> 01:00:21.179
Yeah, but... This is... Robot that malfunctioned

01:00:21.179 --> 01:00:26.280
for the lucky draw. But yeah, so there was video

01:00:26.280 --> 01:00:28.500
that was starting to come into the shows. And

01:00:28.500 --> 01:00:33.480
then I think we had a client that said, since

01:00:33.480 --> 01:00:37.340
you're already here, why do I have to pay someone

01:00:37.340 --> 01:00:39.719
else to bring the video projectors? Why don't

01:00:39.719 --> 01:00:42.900
you provide the video projectors? And I said,

01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:45.000
well, I don't have money to buy projectors. And

01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:50.369
he actually said, I'll buy two projectors. And

01:00:50.369 --> 01:00:53.010
you bring it on my show, but I won't pay you

01:00:53.010 --> 01:00:56.269
as kind of an installment plan to pay back for

01:00:56.269 --> 01:00:59.289
those projectors. Seriously? Legit. So it's like,

01:00:59.389 --> 01:01:01.329
how lucky can I be, right? So somebody... Who

01:01:01.329 --> 01:01:03.070
offers this kind of stuff, man? So he was like,

01:01:03.170 --> 01:01:05.530
because then it just had to do with me. Right?

01:01:05.849 --> 01:01:08.329
So one point of contact and we had already been

01:01:08.329 --> 01:01:10.889
proving ourselves to be doing quite decent work

01:01:10.889 --> 01:01:14.860
for audio. So it's like, yeah. Like there'll

01:01:14.860 --> 01:01:17.139
be another group that comes just to do the projectors.

01:01:17.139 --> 01:01:19.500
Why don't you do the projectors? That is nuts,

01:01:19.500 --> 01:01:21.719
man. And then it was like, oh, I need park hands.

01:01:21.960 --> 01:01:25.039
Like, no, I don't have. Like, go buy lah. So

01:01:25.039 --> 01:01:27.059
by then the work was coming in. It's like, oh,

01:01:27.119 --> 01:01:30.900
if the clients need this, then let's start buying,

01:01:31.000 --> 01:01:34.960
right? We buy, we buy, we buy. And then one gig

01:01:34.960 --> 01:01:37.400
comes along. Oh, but do you know how to hang

01:01:37.400 --> 01:01:40.980
the lights? We need some trust. And I say, not

01:01:40.980 --> 01:01:43.420
really. So us around people, I think first few

01:01:43.420 --> 01:01:45.559
gigs, we get other companies, bigger companies

01:01:45.559 --> 01:01:50.860
to help us. And then from then we say, not so

01:01:50.860 --> 01:01:55.480
hard. Can do. So buy a small set. My initial

01:01:55.480 --> 01:01:58.639
show needed four lengths of trust. I buy four

01:01:58.639 --> 01:02:00.840
lengths of trust. It was a big deal, you know.

01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:03.559
And then when I heard you guys got trusting.

01:02:04.269 --> 01:02:06.670
The guys from Spectrum were like over the bloody

01:02:06.670 --> 01:02:10.550
moon, you know. We had four sticks and then a

01:02:10.550 --> 01:02:12.489
show needed something a little bit longer, bought

01:02:12.489 --> 01:02:15.429
two more. And then today we have a few hundred.

01:02:15.750 --> 01:02:19.050
So it just kept going, kept going, kept going.

01:02:20.289 --> 01:02:22.369
Yeah, like a monster, runaway monster, right?

01:02:23.329 --> 01:02:30.809
So you focus completely on the business. At that

01:02:30.809 --> 01:02:34.619
time, can you easily, have you decided, at that

01:02:34.619 --> 01:02:36.679
time that this this is it this is what i'm gonna

01:02:36.679 --> 01:02:42.079
do and completely when you walked out of the

01:02:42.079 --> 01:02:48.320
honours program no still no no it was it was

01:02:48.320 --> 01:02:51.539
it was when you're younger you don't really think

01:02:51.539 --> 01:02:55.159
so far right well yeah but you've already left

01:02:55.159 --> 01:02:59.079
anyway yeah so you think okay i have a business

01:03:00.759 --> 01:03:03.059
and then you know people talk about oh but now

01:03:03.059 --> 01:03:05.719
you have no fallback plan what if your business

01:03:05.719 --> 01:03:09.300
fails yeah so then it was like then don't fail

01:03:09.300 --> 01:03:11.900
lah so you just kept working harder because your

01:03:11.900 --> 01:03:14.400
initial reason for going in to university is

01:03:14.400 --> 01:03:16.780
because you wanted to have a fallback and having

01:03:16.780 --> 01:03:20.000
a piece of paper would help right no I went to

01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:25.219
university because Friday, no... Shut up, you.

01:03:25.760 --> 01:03:28.179
Even if you don't go to university, you can still

01:03:28.179 --> 01:03:30.400
have a Friday off. You know what I mean? But

01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:32.719
you signed up for your programme, your honours

01:03:32.719 --> 01:03:34.719
programme, because you wanted a buffer, right?

01:03:36.360 --> 01:03:41.500
Yes. I think, generally, that was the idea. Yeah.

01:03:41.619 --> 01:03:45.079
That was sort of the... standard path everybody

01:03:45.079 --> 01:03:49.079
would take. Yeah. Four years later, with so much

01:03:49.079 --> 01:03:53.500
gusto and bravado, our principal walked out of

01:03:53.500 --> 01:03:56.280
NUS and then you said, I got a business, I might

01:03:56.280 --> 01:03:59.300
as well just do this. And then you went to do

01:03:59.300 --> 01:04:02.559
it. But still, you have not decided that this

01:04:02.559 --> 01:04:07.079
is the one. It wasn't a marriage yet. I think

01:04:07.079 --> 01:04:12.079
you never know. Okay. You know what I mean? It

01:04:12.079 --> 01:04:15.010
was like, Let's do this and see where it gets

01:04:15.010 --> 01:04:18.989
us. Okay. So it was still a test water kind of

01:04:18.989 --> 01:04:23.969
thing. Yeah, but it was... Cannot go stun already.

01:04:25.110 --> 01:04:28.010
Like you're already in the deep end. So you decided

01:04:28.010 --> 01:04:31.510
to marry the business already? I guess. Okay,

01:04:31.570 --> 01:04:34.909
if you say like that. Can. Was there passion

01:04:34.909 --> 01:04:38.349
already for the business at that time? No, the

01:04:38.349 --> 01:04:43.619
passion is 1989. What happened in 1999? I first

01:04:43.619 --> 01:04:48.320
started out on the mic. It was the parties, it

01:04:48.320 --> 01:04:51.760
was bringing music. 1999, dude. 1989. Okay, okay,

01:04:51.760 --> 01:04:55.079
okay. And the passion kept there throughout because

01:04:55.079 --> 01:04:59.639
then it was, if we do the gear, we are helping

01:04:59.639 --> 01:05:01.679
the entertainers to deliver their shows. But

01:05:01.679 --> 01:05:04.559
confirming the business end of it wasn't something

01:05:04.559 --> 01:05:07.900
that you've decided yet. You just felt that I've

01:05:07.900 --> 01:05:10.760
got this, I must use it. And failure is not an

01:05:10.760 --> 01:05:13.559
option, so therefore I push it ahead. Was that

01:05:13.559 --> 01:05:16.679
it? Yeah, yeah. I think it's always been like

01:05:16.679 --> 01:05:20.900
that. Okay. Looking back now, looking back now,

01:05:20.920 --> 01:05:23.820
what advice would you give to a young person

01:05:23.820 --> 01:05:26.980
today who is questioning the traditional path

01:05:26.980 --> 01:05:33.619
and considering forging on their own? It doesn't

01:05:33.619 --> 01:05:35.900
have to be in the AVL business. Since you're

01:05:35.900 --> 01:05:37.739
one who's gone for an honours programme and are

01:05:37.739 --> 01:05:40.960
a principal, I have to keep refilling that. Okay,

01:05:40.960 --> 01:05:44.760
stop. In case I'll stab you, I'll tell you. This

01:05:44.760 --> 01:05:47.820
will be the first stabbing in the CCB show. Chris

01:05:47.820 --> 01:05:49.699
Hansen Conversation Show at the CCB TV Studios.

01:05:50.360 --> 01:05:52.920
CCB TV, okay. Okay, let me get it straight. And

01:05:52.920 --> 01:05:55.400
then, right, right. What advice would you give

01:05:55.400 --> 01:06:04.119
a young guy? Goja. Goja. Good, goja. Goja. Goja.

01:06:04.900 --> 01:06:11.079
Okay, I... The traditional path meaning study,

01:06:11.219 --> 01:06:16.880
get a job. Get a job. Even then, you need to

01:06:16.880 --> 01:06:22.480
find your passion. Right? So, I don't think that

01:06:22.480 --> 01:06:26.260
we should be differentiating traditional versus

01:06:26.260 --> 01:06:30.360
forged on your own. Okay. Being a case of work

01:06:30.360 --> 01:06:32.800
for someone versus start your own business. Okay.

01:06:33.340 --> 01:06:35.840
Because I think business is not for everyone.

01:06:36.280 --> 01:06:40.119
Okay. I've seen my fair share of people who've

01:06:40.119 --> 01:06:42.400
tried to go into business. They've got the right

01:06:42.400 --> 01:06:44.639
ideas. They've got the right passion, but they

01:06:44.639 --> 01:06:47.380
just can't hold it together. Okay. And why do

01:06:47.380 --> 01:06:51.059
you think that? Management. Management what?

01:06:51.539 --> 01:06:54.400
Managing business. Okay. There are so many elements

01:06:54.400 --> 01:06:58.619
to the business that don't touch on the actual

01:06:58.619 --> 01:07:01.519
work that you do. Right. Which are mundane, right?

01:07:01.820 --> 01:07:03.840
And sometimes people say, no, I can hire people

01:07:03.840 --> 01:07:06.659
for that. But because you don't understand it,

01:07:06.699 --> 01:07:08.960
you don't have enough oversight of what your

01:07:08.960 --> 01:07:12.219
people are doing. And you are the leader and

01:07:12.219 --> 01:07:15.360
you don't have a way to control what goes on

01:07:15.360 --> 01:07:17.139
or you don't have enough knowledge about what

01:07:17.139 --> 01:07:20.199
is going on. And you keep focusing on your passion

01:07:20.199 --> 01:07:23.699
and then it's all driven down to the ground.

01:07:24.119 --> 01:07:26.599
And then, yes, you can look back and blame somebody,

01:07:26.800 --> 01:07:29.039
blame your lack of experience, blame your whatever.

01:07:29.440 --> 01:07:33.380
But it doesn't mean that Doing what you love

01:07:33.380 --> 01:07:37.420
means you have to start a business. There are

01:07:37.420 --> 01:07:41.360
many ways to do that. So I don't think it's an

01:07:41.360 --> 01:07:43.719
all or nothing decision. I don't think it's a

01:07:43.719 --> 01:07:47.179
case of, it doesn't mean that you go into a job,

01:07:47.260 --> 01:07:50.119
the traditional, what we think is traditional,

01:07:50.159 --> 01:07:53.400
right? Get your education, go for an interview,

01:07:53.639 --> 01:07:57.440
go into a job in the trade that you learned and

01:07:57.440 --> 01:08:01.849
then climb the corporate ladder. If you don't

01:08:01.849 --> 01:08:04.530
have passion doing that, you're also not going

01:08:04.530 --> 01:08:08.210
to get anywhere. Well, basically, if you go into

01:08:08.210 --> 01:08:11.230
the traditional route and then you get a job

01:08:11.230 --> 01:08:13.230
and then you get your promotions and you go for

01:08:13.230 --> 01:08:15.750
courses that your bosses sent you for and you

01:08:15.750 --> 01:08:18.489
learn a couple of things and then as the years

01:08:18.489 --> 01:08:20.970
go by with some experience in hand in the corporate

01:08:20.970 --> 01:08:23.529
world, you can come out and do your own business

01:08:23.529 --> 01:08:27.310
and you might just... you could stand even better

01:08:27.310 --> 01:08:30.029
because you have experience and understanding

01:08:30.029 --> 01:08:34.210
a firmer ground to stand on that could be also

01:08:34.210 --> 01:08:36.710
one of the things I think that you know people

01:08:36.710 --> 01:08:40.869
can take lah the route people can take yeah so

01:08:40.869 --> 01:08:44.890
it's hard it's hard I don't think there's a I

01:08:44.890 --> 01:08:48.810
think that if someone has passion and is able

01:08:48.810 --> 01:08:53.930
to find a way to translate that into making a

01:08:53.930 --> 01:08:59.760
living then by all means, go for it. But I think

01:08:59.760 --> 01:09:02.439
there are people who grow to love what they do,

01:09:02.560 --> 01:09:07.039
even though it's not their core passion. And

01:09:07.039 --> 01:09:10.579
you find the joy and the satisfaction in doing

01:09:10.579 --> 01:09:15.520
that. So then it becomes my passion and maybe

01:09:15.520 --> 01:09:20.829
hobby. Right. I'm just lucky that... They aligned.

01:09:21.229 --> 01:09:24.189
Yeah. And then we get to do... Like what I'm

01:09:24.189 --> 01:09:27.210
doing here. Yeah. My passion, my hobby, but not

01:09:27.210 --> 01:09:31.590
making money. Okay. We have some donation link.

01:09:32.970 --> 01:09:36.989
Call 1 -800. Support Chris Hansen. The Chris

01:09:36.989 --> 01:09:39.850
Hansen conversation benefit. Okay. When you officially

01:09:39.850 --> 01:09:42.489
started TPP, the production people, man. I mean,

01:09:42.529 --> 01:09:45.130
you know, I'm quite hazy about this. Though we've

01:09:45.130 --> 01:09:47.149
known each other for a long time. The transition

01:09:47.149 --> 01:09:53.090
from Ultimax... to TPP. What happened in between?

01:09:54.130 --> 01:09:57.250
Or was it just a company name change? It was

01:09:57.250 --> 01:10:01.510
Let's Go Pro. I think that was the point where

01:10:01.510 --> 01:10:06.529
we said, this is working. So that's where you

01:10:06.529 --> 01:10:09.850
decided that this is really a marriage. And then

01:10:09.850 --> 01:10:13.770
I brought in a partner. He's my university classmate.

01:10:14.390 --> 01:10:17.199
He came on board. He was already helping me on

01:10:17.199 --> 01:10:20.539
gigs while we were in university. Terrence. Terrence,

01:10:20.659 --> 01:10:25.359
yes. And then he came on board as a partner.

01:10:25.439 --> 01:10:27.100
So I was like, okay, let's start a new company.

01:10:28.520 --> 01:10:31.920
Let's try the GoPro. So by then you got a bit

01:10:31.920 --> 01:10:37.939
cringy at this Ultimax. And so we needed something

01:10:37.939 --> 01:10:40.880
a little bit more neutral. And then, yeah, the

01:10:40.880 --> 01:10:43.579
production people was born. Everything back in

01:10:43.579 --> 01:10:45.020
the day was a something, something production,

01:10:45.220 --> 01:10:47.760
something, something productions. We were still

01:10:47.760 --> 01:10:51.340
a very small company. The thinking was that if

01:10:51.340 --> 01:10:54.199
we couldn't compete with the latest gear or the

01:10:54.199 --> 01:10:58.460
most gear, somehow, I'm not sure how the idea

01:10:58.460 --> 01:11:01.819
came about that let's focus on the people instead.

01:11:02.560 --> 01:11:04.880
And so we said, let's call ourselves the production

01:11:04.880 --> 01:11:08.159
people because then people would be like, so

01:11:08.159 --> 01:11:10.520
how many speakers do you have? Like, it's okay

01:11:10.520 --> 01:11:13.039
because we have the best people. It doesn't matter

01:11:13.039 --> 01:11:15.859
how many speakers we have. And we wouldn't be

01:11:15.859 --> 01:11:20.579
always kind of be the kind of be back of the

01:11:20.579 --> 01:11:23.520
line in terms of ranking, right? So I decided

01:11:23.520 --> 01:11:26.279
to just shift the focus. And until today, that's

01:11:26.279 --> 01:11:28.659
very important because I think you will know.

01:11:28.739 --> 01:11:31.180
You go on a show, no matter how good the gear

01:11:31.180 --> 01:11:34.939
is and the people who are working the show are

01:11:34.939 --> 01:11:39.420
not good people. You can tell, right? Okay. the

01:11:39.420 --> 01:11:40.979
show doesn't turn out as good. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:11:41.140 --> 01:11:43.520
It's like a chef, man. A good chef and a bad

01:11:43.520 --> 01:11:46.880
chef. Or a chef on a bad day who's got in a bad

01:11:46.880 --> 01:11:49.060
mood and the food just tastes like shit. Same

01:11:49.060 --> 01:11:51.539
recipe, but tastes like shit. And good ingredients,

01:11:51.720 --> 01:11:54.159
but somehow tak kena, right? Something tak kena,

01:11:54.239 --> 01:11:56.939
yeah. So, yeah. So that's where the production

01:11:56.939 --> 01:12:00.699
people was born. Along the years, then when it

01:12:00.699 --> 01:12:03.100
was time to incorporate as a private limited,

01:12:03.439 --> 01:12:07.100
the idea was that if we shortened our name, and

01:12:07.100 --> 01:12:09.270
because it was quite a mouthful, so, in the industry,

01:12:09.329 --> 01:12:11.850
people are already calling us TPP. So I said,

01:12:11.909 --> 01:12:14.109
okay, what if we shorten the name so it would

01:12:14.109 --> 01:12:19.229
be faster and easier for clients to write our

01:12:19.229 --> 01:12:21.829
name on the cheque so we could get paid first

01:12:21.829 --> 01:12:25.989
because, you know, if they were going to pay

01:12:25.989 --> 01:12:29.970
TPP Private Limited versus Super Fantastic Productions

01:12:29.970 --> 01:12:32.569
Private Limited, it would be easier to write

01:12:32.569 --> 01:12:35.430
us a cheque first and so we would get paid faster

01:12:35.430 --> 01:12:39.859
versus somebody with a longer name, right? Bloody

01:12:39.859 --> 01:12:44.760
hell. I know, I know. And then TPP probably hit

01:12:44.760 --> 01:12:50.680
them as well. And yeah. So the production people

01:12:50.680 --> 01:12:54.399
is the brand. We still operate as a brand. You

01:12:54.399 --> 01:12:56.739
know, I tell, you know, I tell, you know, I want

01:12:56.739 --> 01:12:59.159
to tell people or clients, potential clients

01:12:59.159 --> 01:13:02.460
about, you know, back in the day, especially,

01:13:02.579 --> 01:13:05.380
right? And I recommend you guys for AVL support,

01:13:05.520 --> 01:13:09.229
right? And tell people, don't worry. this company

01:13:09.229 --> 01:13:14.630
zero defect one no lah you never see only even

01:13:14.630 --> 01:13:17.270
you see that's the thing sure got cock up but

01:13:17.270 --> 01:13:19.470
we don't see the cock up that's the best part

01:13:19.470 --> 01:13:22.810
you see yeah and I always say zero defect man

01:13:22.810 --> 01:13:27.789
TPP really I hats off to you guys having a hat

01:13:28.520 --> 01:13:30.899
investing in the right gear and then having a

01:13:30.899 --> 01:13:33.260
dedicated team. Oh, great. You mentioned that

01:13:33.260 --> 01:13:36.560
because this is my next thing here. Great gear,

01:13:36.779 --> 01:13:39.359
right? TPP is invested in high -end equipment

01:13:39.359 --> 01:13:43.340
like Robert Juliet follow spots and your IVL

01:13:43.340 --> 01:13:46.680
photons, right? Let's take a look at those. Kai,

01:13:46.939 --> 01:13:52.300
there you go. what box yeah the box IVR photons

01:13:52.300 --> 01:13:55.579
yeah and then now we're gonna show you what these

01:13:55.579 --> 01:13:58.920
guys these babies do Kai can you play those vids

01:13:58.920 --> 01:14:09.239
please no the hell what the hell IVR right so

01:14:09.239 --> 01:14:13.449
the The immersiveness is, the immersion is, your

01:14:13.449 --> 01:14:15.489
audience is being immersed in the light. Is that

01:14:15.489 --> 01:14:18.149
what you guys, is that what you do? That's what

01:14:18.149 --> 01:14:25.729
it does. But I love those lights, man. I mean,

01:14:25.750 --> 01:14:27.789
that's the reason why I wanted to showcase that

01:14:27.789 --> 01:14:30.329
one here. You guys spend a lot of money on these

01:14:30.329 --> 01:14:33.510
things. Yeah, they come out of a French company.

01:14:35.470 --> 01:14:39.970
And again, I saw them in an exhibition. I looked

01:14:39.970 --> 01:14:43.670
at it and I was a bit mind blown. I was like,

01:14:43.750 --> 01:14:46.510
what's going on here? I've never actually seen

01:14:46.510 --> 01:14:49.470
these things, right? Yeah. I had some interaction

01:14:49.470 --> 01:14:51.710
with them earlier on when they had some older

01:14:51.710 --> 01:14:55.670
products. But again, it was, how are we going

01:14:55.670 --> 01:14:59.069
to use these on our shows, right? Not very mainstream.

01:14:59.310 --> 01:15:04.409
Right. But I think for me, it was, what can we

01:15:04.409 --> 01:15:08.210
bring? to market so that our clients have something

01:15:08.210 --> 01:15:10.970
a little bit unique to differentiate their shows

01:15:10.970 --> 01:15:15.250
so that audiences don't get sick and tired of

01:15:15.250 --> 01:15:17.869
seeing the same show, right? Nowadays, every

01:15:17.869 --> 01:15:23.390
show is a big screen, some colorful graphic,

01:15:23.489 --> 01:15:26.329
nice big logo, and then lights all over the place.

01:15:26.930 --> 01:15:29.810
This is a way to just, let's try something a

01:15:29.810 --> 01:15:32.029
bit different. Do clients really listen or ask

01:15:32.029 --> 01:15:34.710
about these kind of things? Are they interested

01:15:34.710 --> 01:15:36.170
in even listening about this? Because we work

01:15:36.170 --> 01:15:40.890
with the event companies. We work with some lighting

01:15:40.890 --> 01:15:47.069
designers. Yeah, so I think it's just a way of

01:15:47.069 --> 01:15:51.390
us as a provider keeping in touch with the trends,

01:15:51.670 --> 01:15:56.810
daring to go where it's not mainstream. It doesn't

01:15:56.810 --> 01:16:00.229
go out every day. It's not the biggest money

01:16:00.229 --> 01:16:03.130
-making thing. But I think when somebody wants

01:16:03.130 --> 01:16:06.510
to create a show that's slightly different, they

01:16:06.510 --> 01:16:08.689
know we can deliver, right? So it's really about

01:16:08.689 --> 01:16:13.729
working with our clients to be able to bring

01:16:13.729 --> 01:16:15.949
something a bit different to their show because

01:16:15.949 --> 01:16:18.229
then it helps them bring something different

01:16:18.229 --> 01:16:22.909
to the end user clients. Right. It differentiates

01:16:22.909 --> 01:16:26.989
away from everybody who has a very similar proposal.

01:16:27.350 --> 01:16:30.180
Yeah, I'm going to have a very... cheeky question

01:16:30.180 --> 01:16:34.680
to ask you. What is the single most important

01:16:34.680 --> 01:16:40.479
thing that sets TPP apart from its competitors?

01:16:44.199 --> 01:16:48.220
Don't be shy. We say what, we do what. Okay.

01:16:48.359 --> 01:16:50.880
We say what, we do what. I think that's what

01:16:50.880 --> 01:16:54.279
I hear from a lot of people that we are reliable.

01:16:56.300 --> 01:17:01.539
Which... Why is that not happening more often?

01:17:01.840 --> 01:17:07.119
Right? I think with anything, if you went and

01:17:07.119 --> 01:17:09.760
bought a 55 -inch TV, you'd expect to get 55

01:17:09.760 --> 01:17:13.699
inches, right? Yeah. If you went and you ordered...

01:17:13.699 --> 01:17:15.880
Fuck it, I'm not going to... No, I mean, if you

01:17:15.880 --> 01:17:19.640
ordered chicken rice, you would expect... Chicken.

01:17:20.420 --> 01:17:23.979
But you will get your chilli, ginger, soy sauce.

01:17:24.300 --> 01:17:33.060
Okay. So why are there clients who tell of their

01:17:33.060 --> 01:17:36.659
experience where they don't get what they expect?

01:17:37.579 --> 01:17:42.819
Either short change or under -delivered. And

01:17:42.819 --> 01:17:45.640
I think I've always focused on that, that if

01:17:45.640 --> 01:17:50.000
people are going to pay us X dollars, they should

01:17:50.000 --> 01:17:53.470
get that exact amount back. in value of services

01:17:53.470 --> 01:17:57.090
that was promised to them. And thankfully, there

01:17:57.090 --> 01:17:59.329
are people who don't live up to that expectation.

01:18:00.590 --> 01:18:03.350
Not so good for the industry. Thankfully. Thankfully

01:18:03.350 --> 01:18:05.689
because they make us look good, right? They make

01:18:05.689 --> 01:18:10.869
us look good. I wish there were less because

01:18:10.869 --> 01:18:13.649
then it means the whole industry elevates. But

01:18:13.649 --> 01:18:15.949
you always have to have... See the political

01:18:15.949 --> 01:18:17.869
bloody correctness. I know, I know. But you have

01:18:17.869 --> 01:18:20.130
to always have good and bad, right? If there's

01:18:20.130 --> 01:18:22.939
good... If everybody's same, then who's better?

01:18:23.699 --> 01:18:26.659
Right? So I think the fact that we've always

01:18:26.659 --> 01:18:30.000
been reliable, we'll pull out all the stops that

01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:34.600
we can to deliver what we've promised or what

01:18:34.600 --> 01:18:37.560
the client expects and open about it. If there's

01:18:37.560 --> 01:18:40.319
something that we know we can't achieve, we have

01:18:40.319 --> 01:18:43.739
to early on in a good negotiation say, hang on,

01:18:43.819 --> 01:18:45.680
I'm not just going to say yes because you're

01:18:45.680 --> 01:18:47.850
a client, but this is just... It's not going

01:18:47.850 --> 01:18:50.210
to turn out the way you're thinking, okay? And

01:18:50.210 --> 01:18:52.930
sometimes we have to do demos. Sometimes we would

01:18:52.930 --> 01:18:55.670
do a mock -up. Sometimes we advise the client,

01:18:55.850 --> 01:18:58.670
no, no, no, this is not going to work because

01:18:58.670 --> 01:19:00.689
you just think it's going to work. It's easy

01:19:00.689 --> 01:19:03.409
for you to sell it, but I think we'll have a

01:19:03.409 --> 01:19:06.869
problem. When you say client, you mean the event

01:19:06.869 --> 01:19:09.390
company, right? And then sit down with them and

01:19:09.390 --> 01:19:12.670
say, Here's a way we can fix the problem. Let's

01:19:12.670 --> 01:19:14.890
have a chat about it. Sometimes we get on a Zoom

01:19:14.890 --> 01:19:17.550
call and we talk things through. And I think

01:19:17.550 --> 01:19:19.369
there are clients who appreciate that because

01:19:19.369 --> 01:19:22.470
we understand the tech. They understand what

01:19:22.470 --> 01:19:25.369
they need to sell. And so for us, helping them

01:19:25.369 --> 01:19:28.390
to understand what we can do helps them to deliver.

01:19:28.470 --> 01:19:32.289
Then we become sort of partners. So it's, yeah,

01:19:32.409 --> 01:19:35.250
it's like, just go out there and do awesome shows.

01:19:37.199 --> 01:19:40.960
And that should be the creed for the entertainer

01:19:40.960 --> 01:19:45.619
as well. Go out there and do awesome. Yeah, I

01:19:45.619 --> 01:19:47.960
mean, in my mind, that's what I think. Yeah,

01:19:47.960 --> 01:19:50.060
agree. Let's talk about the Star Association,

01:19:50.239 --> 01:19:52.899
shall we? The Star Association. Which you're

01:19:52.899 --> 01:19:56.880
president of the association. I'm the default

01:19:56.880 --> 01:20:00.779
president only because there hasn't been much

01:20:00.779 --> 01:20:07.539
activity, sadly. I think... So STAR, for those

01:20:07.539 --> 01:20:10.479
of you who are... Correct, yes. A little bit

01:20:10.479 --> 01:20:12.060
of background, right? Background, yeah. STAR

01:20:12.060 --> 01:20:15.060
stands for Singapore Talents, Artists and Resources.

01:20:16.420 --> 01:20:19.779
Quite a mouthful, but it was started off for

01:20:19.779 --> 01:20:23.979
the entertainment industry, live events, entertainment

01:20:23.979 --> 01:20:32.359
industry, as opposed to sort of like the arts,

01:20:32.560 --> 01:20:35.060
right? Because it was kind of there was a gap

01:20:35.060 --> 01:20:39.760
between the arts and what about people in entertainment,

01:20:39.960 --> 01:20:43.119
in live events, right? So the association was

01:20:43.119 --> 01:20:46.539
started, not by me. I came on a little bit later.

01:20:46.619 --> 01:20:50.180
Dinde was the president for me. Those of you

01:20:50.180 --> 01:20:56.000
who know him, great guy. I cannot arrow. I picked

01:20:56.000 --> 01:20:57.680
it up and I said, okay, yeah, let's try and do

01:20:57.680 --> 01:21:03.390
something for our industry. I think it was, well

01:21:03.390 --> 01:21:06.710
not I think, I know it was started off for the

01:21:06.710 --> 01:21:10.630
industry to have a collective voice so that we

01:21:10.630 --> 01:21:14.310
would be able to champion the rights of practitioners

01:21:14.310 --> 01:21:18.289
within the industry. And I think there was some

01:21:18.289 --> 01:21:21.550
good that has come out of it. We used to do in

01:21:21.550 --> 01:21:24.949
the early days some courses and training. There

01:21:24.949 --> 01:21:28.569
were some early courses on very basic AVL to

01:21:28.569 --> 01:21:32.819
help. events people or people who were not in

01:21:32.819 --> 01:21:35.899
AVL understand AVL a bit better so they could

01:21:35.899 --> 01:21:38.439
get themselves out of a fix of like if they were

01:21:38.439 --> 01:21:41.340
on a small show and there was nobody there and

01:21:41.340 --> 01:21:43.760
the system was giving some issues they understood

01:21:43.760 --> 01:21:46.479
a little bit right we did a couple of rounds

01:21:46.479 --> 01:21:50.579
of legal training so that people will understand

01:21:50.579 --> 01:21:53.979
the law the rights and remedies yeah Law, contracts,

01:21:54.300 --> 01:21:57.979
and how if they were being bullied by a bigger

01:21:57.979 --> 01:22:03.760
client, they could stand up for themselves. Yeah,

01:22:03.880 --> 01:22:06.840
it was bits of stuff like that. And then, of

01:22:06.840 --> 01:22:11.279
course, we all know 2020 came along. End of 2019

01:22:11.279 --> 01:22:18.449
came along. We all know what happened then. And

01:22:18.449 --> 01:22:21.529
thankfully, because we had an association, the

01:22:21.529 --> 01:22:28.649
association is officially active. It's a registered

01:22:28.649 --> 01:22:33.130
society in the registrar of societies. We file

01:22:33.130 --> 01:22:36.109
tax returns every year. We pay very little tax

01:22:36.109 --> 01:22:37.989
because we're not collecting membership fees

01:22:37.989 --> 01:22:41.630
anymore. But I do think it's something worth

01:22:41.630 --> 01:22:44.250
reviving. Maybe I have overstayed my welcome

01:22:44.250 --> 01:22:47.939
and definitely open to... younger generation

01:22:47.939 --> 01:22:52.859
willing to work with the pioneers and say, where

01:22:52.859 --> 01:22:54.859
can we bring this? I think the landscape has

01:22:54.859 --> 01:22:58.239
changed a lot after COVID. But during COVID,

01:22:58.439 --> 01:23:02.159
because there was an association, there was an

01:23:02.159 --> 01:23:05.819
ability for people to come together and say,

01:23:05.920 --> 01:23:09.840
what can we do collectively? We could rally people

01:23:09.840 --> 01:23:13.420
together. I think many of you in the industry

01:23:13.420 --> 01:23:18.050
are... on chat groups. The WhatsApp chat groups

01:23:18.050 --> 01:23:21.789
with the resources, freelancers, EOs, was really

01:23:21.789 --> 01:23:26.069
a way to quickly bring people together to get

01:23:26.069 --> 01:23:29.949
feedback on the issues people were facing so

01:23:29.949 --> 01:23:33.029
that we could take this up to authorities and

01:23:33.029 --> 01:23:39.250
get help for the industry. I won't say, I won't

01:23:39.250 --> 01:23:43.720
dare to say we totally nailed it. But I am quite

01:23:43.720 --> 01:23:47.260
proud to say that I think we did play a part.

01:23:48.239 --> 01:23:50.939
No, not we. I mean, I would say we generically,

01:23:51.020 --> 01:23:53.359
that the fact that it was an association allowed

01:23:53.359 --> 01:23:56.939
us to quickly pull people together and get help

01:23:56.939 --> 01:24:01.100
for people. who need the help. Yeah. Who were

01:24:01.100 --> 01:24:03.159
facing these things that were unprecedented,

01:24:03.340 --> 01:24:05.460
right? Yeah. There was a lot of feedback going

01:24:05.460 --> 01:24:07.659
on almost every week. I would be on a Zoom call

01:24:07.659 --> 01:24:11.420
with NTUC. We were figuring out ways. We were

01:24:11.420 --> 01:24:14.119
sharing job opportunities. There were people

01:24:14.119 --> 01:24:16.699
who were being social distancing ambassadors

01:24:16.699 --> 01:24:18.960
with the red shirts. There were people who were

01:24:18.960 --> 01:24:22.640
helping taxi drivers process their claims sitting

01:24:22.640 --> 01:24:25.420
in the... I don't know where they were, but they

01:24:25.420 --> 01:24:27.640
were getting paid doing that, right? The government's

01:24:27.640 --> 01:24:30.319
way of, let's find work for people. So we paid.

01:24:30.359 --> 01:24:31.840
They didn't want to do straight out handouts.

01:24:32.239 --> 01:24:35.500
They had the grants. Some people were like, oh,

01:24:35.520 --> 01:24:38.899
but we are single company owners. We lobbied

01:24:38.899 --> 01:24:41.439
for it. And then on a subsequent budget, it was,

01:24:41.479 --> 01:24:43.939
yes, we'll let directors be eligible for the

01:24:43.939 --> 01:24:47.140
grants as well. Yeah, so there was quite a bit

01:24:47.140 --> 01:24:51.239
of work that was being done. There was a lot

01:24:51.239 --> 01:24:55.630
of help from the authorities. And the fact that

01:24:55.630 --> 01:24:59.369
the community still exists today, I think just

01:24:59.369 --> 01:25:02.710
is testament to the fact that having a grouping

01:25:02.710 --> 01:25:06.369
is important. I think today things like training

01:25:06.369 --> 01:25:08.350
and upping the standards, we did a couple of

01:25:08.350 --> 01:25:11.109
rounds of rigging training as well to help so

01:25:11.109 --> 01:25:14.590
that there wouldn't be so many accidents. Whether

01:25:14.590 --> 01:25:17.729
that is maybe the focus or really looking at

01:25:17.729 --> 01:25:22.430
where people don't have somewhere to turn to.

01:25:22.829 --> 01:25:25.949
and having an association as that sort of safety

01:25:25.949 --> 01:25:29.750
net of saying, can we maybe build some funds

01:25:29.750 --> 01:25:34.170
that if people have a family issue and they don't

01:25:34.170 --> 01:25:37.829
have enough insurance, can the association, can

01:25:37.829 --> 01:25:40.710
we help our own, right? It's one area we've thought

01:25:40.710 --> 01:25:47.239
about. But yeah, I think as COVID started to

01:25:47.239 --> 01:25:49.479
ease off and shows started coming back, everybody

01:25:49.479 --> 01:25:51.819
was busy trying to get their lives back in order,

01:25:51.880 --> 01:25:56.119
trying to, and it's a long thing, right? Like,

01:25:56.119 --> 01:26:00.859
is COVID a thing anymore to anybody? Don't think

01:26:00.859 --> 01:26:03.000
so. Right? Not many people are afraid, right?

01:26:03.039 --> 01:26:07.260
But there's long COVID, right? Yeah. And there's

01:26:07.260 --> 01:26:12.659
long COVID, right? Yeah. Business owners. I am

01:26:12.659 --> 01:26:15.539
still paying loans that were taken during COVID

01:26:15.539 --> 01:26:18.739
to keep the business alive. So that's my long

01:26:18.739 --> 01:26:22.439
COVID. But it's fine, right? Because work has

01:26:22.439 --> 01:26:25.000
come back, everybody's back to work, renewed

01:26:25.000 --> 01:26:28.699
passion. But it's something that had such a great

01:26:28.699 --> 01:26:30.500
impact because all of them were five -year loans.

01:26:31.399 --> 01:26:34.439
They're mostly finishing soon, but still within

01:26:34.439 --> 01:26:37.000
five years, right? So there was that big impact.

01:26:37.100 --> 01:26:40.369
But I think at that moment where it... Everybody's

01:26:40.369 --> 01:26:44.310
world came crashing down. There was an ability.

01:26:45.170 --> 01:26:49.710
I conducted a few town halls when nobody can

01:26:49.710 --> 01:26:53.409
meet. I did online from home, did some town halls.

01:26:53.550 --> 01:26:56.369
Every time there was a budget, we would sit together,

01:26:56.569 --> 01:26:58.770
figure out anything we didn't understand. We'd

01:26:58.770 --> 01:27:02.250
ask NTUC for help. And then I would put up some

01:27:02.250 --> 01:27:05.829
slides. I did a town hall on Zoom. just to help

01:27:05.829 --> 01:27:08.170
everybody navigate the space help everyone to

01:27:08.170 --> 01:27:10.489
understand because a lot of people in the business

01:27:10.489 --> 01:27:13.430
were either freelancers or small business owners

01:27:13.430 --> 01:27:16.489
so nobody was trained to deal with any of this

01:27:16.489 --> 01:27:18.890
right so it was just us guiding through okay

01:27:18.890 --> 01:27:20.770
if you have a rental dispute this is what the

01:27:20.770 --> 01:27:23.489
law says we helped to write some letters that

01:27:23.489 --> 01:27:26.909
caught some people their benefits while landlords

01:27:26.909 --> 01:27:30.819
were not willing to do it yeah we had some I

01:27:30.819 --> 01:27:32.779
think a small handful of people that got their

01:27:32.779 --> 01:27:35.819
contracts cancelled were refusing to get paid.

01:27:35.960 --> 01:27:38.640
We lobbied that back up and said, come on guys,

01:27:38.859 --> 01:27:41.979
you have to honor contract. Thankfully, it was

01:27:41.979 --> 01:27:45.180
like sort of government linked hirers that were

01:27:45.180 --> 01:27:48.260
not doing that. We raised up the issue. Those

01:27:48.260 --> 01:27:51.760
guys got their 50%. So there was some good that

01:27:51.760 --> 01:27:56.079
came out of it. Could we have done better? Well.

01:27:57.019 --> 01:27:59.039
Hindsight, right? 2020. Yeah, hindsight 2020.

01:27:59.359 --> 01:28:02.720
But I think that there is still value in an association.

01:28:03.300 --> 01:28:06.939
We've not really been in touch with NTUC so much,

01:28:07.020 --> 01:28:11.960
but I feel the challenge because the events and

01:28:11.960 --> 01:28:14.420
entertainment industry is very, very diverse.

01:28:15.199 --> 01:28:18.300
It's a very wide industry with many, many trades,

01:28:18.500 --> 01:28:21.439
with many, many different people doing different

01:28:21.439 --> 01:28:25.000
things, but all with the same end goal. There

01:28:25.000 --> 01:28:28.060
are people who do a few different things. And

01:28:28.060 --> 01:28:31.680
so the challenge has always been for the authorities

01:28:31.680 --> 01:28:35.420
to understand us. Because there's that, how do

01:28:35.420 --> 01:28:38.250
we help the freelancers? but the business owners

01:28:38.250 --> 01:28:40.789
need help as well. So to them, okay, then you

01:28:40.789 --> 01:28:43.310
should start a business association. And I said,

01:28:43.350 --> 01:28:46.470
yeah, but sometimes the business owner on the

01:28:46.470 --> 01:28:49.010
weekend gets hired to emcee somebody else's show

01:28:49.010 --> 01:28:51.750
and everyone's fine with that. So we need to

01:28:51.750 --> 01:28:53.750
help him as well because one day he's a freelancer,

01:28:53.850 --> 01:28:55.670
another day he's a business owner. Yeah, it's

01:28:55.670 --> 01:28:58.449
a very dynamic space. It's a very diverse and

01:28:58.449 --> 01:29:02.310
very complex industry. But it just shows how

01:29:02.310 --> 01:29:06.220
much... talent, how much adaptability we have

01:29:06.220 --> 01:29:08.579
within the industry. And so it's very hard to

01:29:08.579 --> 01:29:10.939
pinpoint. I think it's safe to say that during

01:29:10.939 --> 01:29:15.359
that crisis, the COVID crisis, associations,

01:29:15.720 --> 01:29:19.300
a lot of associations were responsible in very

01:29:19.300 --> 01:29:22.840
large ways in helping out their members, including

01:29:22.840 --> 01:29:24.960
the Singapore Nightlife Association, you know,

01:29:24.979 --> 01:29:27.439
what they had to do to help the clubs and pubs

01:29:27.439 --> 01:29:29.380
and bars. And then now I'm hearing from you about

01:29:29.380 --> 01:29:32.920
Star Association and helping out the... the members

01:29:32.920 --> 01:29:36.359
there and I think we only start to realise the

01:29:36.359 --> 01:29:39.359
importance of associations especially of your

01:29:39.359 --> 01:29:43.140
own respective trades you know until we come

01:29:43.140 --> 01:29:45.880
into this kind of crisis when shit hits the fan

01:29:45.880 --> 01:29:48.100
yeah when shit hits the fan now I'm just gonna

01:29:48.100 --> 01:29:58.510
end off very quickly walking out NUS And then

01:29:58.510 --> 01:30:03.470
at 49, you decided to return to school at Republic

01:30:03.470 --> 01:30:07.630
Poly. Okay. Why? I did, I did. Because very free.

01:30:07.670 --> 01:30:16.449
What the fuck? Very free. Okay, so some background.

01:30:17.390 --> 01:30:23.850
The chair of the course. Jackie, who was a lecturer

01:30:23.850 --> 01:30:29.590
at RP, was actually, his previous job, he was

01:30:29.590 --> 01:30:33.770
a client of ours. Okay. So he got into the school

01:30:33.770 --> 01:30:35.989
and they were running this course and he said,

01:30:36.090 --> 01:30:39.770
hey, do you want to send some of your guys? So

01:30:39.770 --> 01:30:42.569
I said, okay, maybe I'll send a guy. I was like,

01:30:42.710 --> 01:30:49.109
can I send myself? And he's like, yeah, you want

01:30:49.109 --> 01:30:52.649
to go? And it was, What course was this? It was

01:30:52.649 --> 01:30:56.409
a specialist diploma in immersive technology

01:30:56.409 --> 01:31:01.789
for business. What is that? Right? Immersive.

01:31:01.789 --> 01:31:03.430
Today, it's a word that's being thrown around.

01:31:03.770 --> 01:31:07.649
It was 49, it was about three years, four years

01:31:07.649 --> 01:31:10.550
back. It was a new thing, right? It was a new

01:31:10.550 --> 01:31:13.649
thing, maybe not really new, but I thought, okay,

01:31:13.750 --> 01:31:16.109
we didn't have really much work. There was a

01:31:16.109 --> 01:31:18.170
lot of work that was still going on in the studios.

01:31:18.229 --> 01:31:20.270
We still had to wear a mask when we went to school.

01:31:20.689 --> 01:31:23.890
There was a day where we do online classes on

01:31:23.890 --> 01:31:26.329
Teams and then a day where we would go back to

01:31:26.329 --> 01:31:28.810
school on the weekend. So then there was some

01:31:28.810 --> 01:31:35.390
practical. But I really benefited from it. What

01:31:35.390 --> 01:31:37.729
is this immersive technology thing or immersive

01:31:37.729 --> 01:31:41.329
reality? It was them trying to say, okay, let's

01:31:41.329 --> 01:31:44.590
train about immersive and have people to understand.

01:31:44.729 --> 01:31:48.529
It was how can you... It wasn't one thing. There

01:31:48.529 --> 01:31:51.390
were a few different modules, but we learned

01:31:51.390 --> 01:31:55.939
about audio. We learned about... lighting, we

01:31:55.939 --> 01:32:00.180
learnt about gamification, we learnt about virtual

01:32:00.180 --> 01:32:05.859
reality, we learnt about place making. Not emerging,

01:32:06.140 --> 01:32:08.960
it was really and part of it was also exploring

01:32:08.960 --> 01:32:13.060
what immersive really meant. Of course, today

01:32:13.060 --> 01:32:15.760
you think immersive, it's a little bit overused,

01:32:15.800 --> 01:32:20.529
but it was about It's bringing people into an

01:32:20.529 --> 01:32:22.890
experience. Oops, sorry. No problem. That's immersive.

01:32:23.189 --> 01:32:25.989
No, it's not. It was about bringing, how do you

01:32:25.989 --> 01:32:28.470
understand all these different elements to bring

01:32:28.470 --> 01:32:33.890
people into an experience rather than just watching

01:32:33.890 --> 01:32:36.630
an experience, right? Okay. And we learned things

01:32:36.630 --> 01:32:40.090
like storytelling. We had to learn how to write

01:32:40.090 --> 01:32:43.210
script. Okay. Because the whole idea was that

01:32:43.210 --> 01:32:45.949
how do you bring someone into an experience?

01:32:47.149 --> 01:32:50.409
if you don't have a story. Okay. So there were

01:32:50.409 --> 01:32:52.510
all these elements, right? So with storytelling,

01:32:52.869 --> 01:32:55.369
it was script writing and storytelling. It was

01:32:55.369 --> 01:32:57.869
how do you write the script? How do you understand?

01:32:58.289 --> 01:33:00.270
Sounds more like an arts course than anything

01:33:00.270 --> 01:33:02.550
else. Right? No, but then there's that whole

01:33:02.550 --> 01:33:06.149
element of virtual reality. How do you work with

01:33:06.149 --> 01:33:11.449
360 cameras? Okay. How do you build virtual environments?

01:33:11.970 --> 01:33:14.729
Did you enjoy it? Oh, I enjoyed it so much. It

01:33:14.729 --> 01:33:16.560
was a part -time program. Yeah, it was a part

01:33:16.560 --> 01:33:17.859
-time program. How long was it for? It was two

01:33:17.859 --> 01:33:19.859
days. It was, I think, almost a year. A year?

01:33:19.920 --> 01:33:22.340
Yeah. And it's a diploma? It's a specialist diploma.

01:33:23.020 --> 01:33:25.239
Oh, wow. That means I'm at the top already. Oh,

01:33:25.239 --> 01:33:29.199
not bad. You got a diploma. I got, I think I

01:33:29.199 --> 01:33:33.060
got the highest GPA. Really? I topped the class.

01:33:33.180 --> 01:33:34.880
Yeah, you went for a bloody honours program.

01:33:35.239 --> 01:33:37.720
I flunked the honours, so I worked hard on the

01:33:37.720 --> 01:33:40.399
diploma. Better get the highest GPA. But it taught

01:33:40.399 --> 01:33:44.279
me a lot because I understood. how to see my

01:33:44.279 --> 01:33:46.880
work from a different perspective. Okay. It talked

01:33:46.880 --> 01:33:50.439
about, we learned about, about, about people.

01:33:50.520 --> 01:33:53.220
I mean, there's a, there's a module about gamification.

01:33:53.579 --> 01:33:56.100
Like, what is gamification? What's gamification?

01:33:56.659 --> 01:34:01.060
Gamification is how you, how you turn experiences

01:34:01.060 --> 01:34:05.720
into game so that people interact. And when people

01:34:05.720 --> 01:34:08.279
interact with, with something that they're doing,

01:34:08.460 --> 01:34:12.140
there is that element of getting deeper into.

01:34:12.670 --> 01:34:15.210
the topic right it's how you know when you when

01:34:15.210 --> 01:34:17.050
you buy something and then they say oh click

01:34:17.050 --> 01:34:19.310
here to play a game and you spin you get some

01:34:19.310 --> 01:34:21.970
points yeah yeah yeah you spend more time you

01:34:21.970 --> 01:34:24.890
get more exposed to the app yeah and and with

01:34:24.890 --> 01:34:27.109
any other different things if you if you if you

01:34:27.109 --> 01:34:30.630
go out and say uh let's put up a road show and

01:34:31.680 --> 01:34:34.140
let me put five posters to tell you about something.

01:34:34.260 --> 01:34:37.340
But if you create some activity behind it, that's

01:34:37.340 --> 01:34:40.079
gamification. You're turning that messaging into

01:34:40.079 --> 01:34:43.260
a game. When you involve people, that is also

01:34:43.260 --> 01:34:46.199
immersiveness. So it was really exploring the

01:34:46.199 --> 01:34:49.260
definition of immersiveness and how every different

01:34:49.260 --> 01:34:51.479
element, there's no right and wrong. It wasn't

01:34:51.479 --> 01:34:55.560
a, here's what immersive is, right? But it helped

01:34:55.560 --> 01:34:58.550
me to understand so much about looking at the

01:34:58.550 --> 01:35:01.810
work that we do, bringing experiences to audiences,

01:35:02.050 --> 01:35:06.630
not just from a, here's what I do, but here's

01:35:06.630 --> 01:35:10.350
what people are receiving. And then challenge

01:35:10.350 --> 01:35:14.189
your notion of how can I do that better? How

01:35:14.189 --> 01:35:16.810
can I work with people who are more talented

01:35:16.810 --> 01:35:22.350
to improve that experience, to make that experience

01:35:22.350 --> 01:35:26.369
a lot more multi -sensory, all -encompassing.

01:35:26.430 --> 01:35:29.140
Immersive is not just, projectors all around

01:35:29.140 --> 01:35:31.939
right everything can be made to be a bit more

01:35:31.939 --> 01:35:33.819
immersive oh yeah now i understand the reason

01:35:33.819 --> 01:35:37.399
why you bought those lights yeah so that helps

01:35:37.399 --> 01:35:40.220
but but yeah there's just so much so much involved

01:35:40.220 --> 01:35:43.420
with it it was uh it was very good very good

01:35:43.420 --> 01:35:45.579
and then obviously the nice offshoot was that

01:35:45.579 --> 01:35:49.880
they did some news publicity to kind of because

01:35:49.880 --> 01:35:52.539
i was i think i was the second oldest guy so

01:35:52.539 --> 01:35:56.529
they had me on for like the lifelong learning

01:35:56.529 --> 01:36:01.390
you see you can be an older guy and still come

01:36:01.390 --> 01:36:06.010
for continuing education oh boy that was a good

01:36:06.010 --> 01:36:09.329
one that was a good one okay what's your personal

01:36:09.329 --> 01:36:12.810
vision for the future last question okay we have

01:36:12.810 --> 01:36:17.850
a vision for both for yourself and for TPP just

01:36:17.850 --> 01:36:20.779
keep doing awesome man Keep doing awesome. That

01:36:20.779 --> 01:36:24.119
was a great one. We ended the video especially

01:36:24.119 --> 01:36:26.500
with that, you and me. Oh, yes, yes, yes. In

01:36:26.500 --> 01:36:31.039
the office, yeah. I think people get too hung

01:36:31.039 --> 01:36:34.779
up on what's my goal, what's my vision, right?

01:36:34.939 --> 01:36:38.640
I think it should be a guiding principle and

01:36:38.640 --> 01:36:43.359
you stick by it, then... then the goals just

01:36:43.359 --> 01:36:45.420
come naturally, right? I mean, yes, you can set

01:36:45.420 --> 01:36:48.779
financial goals. You can set some milestones,

01:36:48.939 --> 01:36:50.960
right? That's the difference between our generation

01:36:50.960 --> 01:36:55.060
and the rest. We live by these sort of values,

01:36:55.159 --> 01:36:58.880
by principles, not by a goal set. Like in my

01:36:58.880 --> 01:37:02.420
school, you know, they tell us, be true, be strong,

01:37:02.659 --> 01:37:09.630
be brave. You know? And you just live by... Values

01:37:09.630 --> 01:37:11.989
and principles, you know, and precepts, you know

01:37:11.989 --> 01:37:14.109
what I'm saying? Anyway, I'm going to do this

01:37:14.109 --> 01:37:17.510
for you. Kai, can we flash the good people of

01:37:17.510 --> 01:37:26.880
TPP? What people are? There you go. Yeah. And

01:37:26.880 --> 01:37:29.819
there you go. The crew and Sheldon Gui. We have

01:37:29.819 --> 01:37:32.420
some hires that missed this photo shoot. Sorry,

01:37:32.460 --> 01:37:35.520
that is all I could get. Yeah, I know. That's

01:37:35.520 --> 01:37:37.619
a good reminder. I have to get the new photo.

01:37:37.659 --> 01:37:41.640
My apologies to those guys. But this is TPP,

01:37:41.779 --> 01:37:46.159
everybody. If you need to really find people

01:37:46.159 --> 01:37:48.819
that you can trust to take care of your AVL needs,

01:37:48.920 --> 01:37:51.279
your audiovisual lighting needs, these are the

01:37:51.279 --> 01:37:54.920
people you go to. Okay, go. and fine tpp and

01:37:54.920 --> 01:37:58.319
i can tell you one more one thing again this

01:37:58.319 --> 01:38:01.859
is not a paid promotion by tpp for us to have

01:38:01.859 --> 01:38:03.699
this have them on the show we don't have that

01:38:03.699 --> 01:38:06.340
kind of money Not at all. This is not what it

01:38:06.340 --> 01:38:11.779
is, okay? Paid promotion for the fact that we

01:38:11.779 --> 01:38:14.119
are friends for sure, so that's the reason why

01:38:14.119 --> 01:38:17.500
I always check off. Yeah, it's a paid promotion,

01:38:17.640 --> 01:38:20.819
but it's not because of TPP. It's for the good

01:38:20.819 --> 01:38:27.319
people from sure, okay? Can see that. Can see

01:38:27.319 --> 01:38:30.399
that. I think so, yeah. Okay, very good. Because

01:38:30.399 --> 01:38:34.380
I'm blind as a bat from this distance. Okay,

01:38:34.399 --> 01:38:36.760
now, everybody, thanks for watching the Chris

01:38:36.760 --> 01:38:38.439
Hansen Conversation. And thank you, Sheldon,

01:38:38.439 --> 01:38:41.079
for spending this time with us. It's been a long

01:38:41.079 --> 01:38:43.840
time beating up our asses on our seats here.

01:38:45.180 --> 01:38:46.979
Spending time talking, but it's been great. I

01:38:46.979 --> 01:38:49.000
hope you had fun. I had fun. Thank you. Thank

01:38:49.000 --> 01:38:51.680
you for listening. I hope we didn't bore you

01:38:51.680 --> 01:38:55.659
too much. No, I don't think my shows bore people.

01:38:56.670 --> 01:38:58.510
Some of you think it's boring. Well, you know,

01:38:58.510 --> 01:39:00.550
you can always go watch some other podcasts.

01:39:00.710 --> 01:39:03.250
You know, it's fine. It's a good one. It's a

01:39:03.250 --> 01:39:05.550
good one. Stay on this channel. So, thank you.

01:39:05.949 --> 01:39:09.869
So, again, for those of you who've tuned in,

01:39:09.930 --> 01:39:11.689
thank you very much for tuning in to the Chris

01:39:11.689 --> 01:39:14.989
Hansen Conversation. We'll be back again next

01:39:14.989 --> 01:39:18.470
week. We're continuing on with our I Love My

01:39:18.470 --> 01:39:21.329
Job series and loads more, loads more, loads

01:39:21.329 --> 01:39:25.579
more episodes to go. And... Well, fingers crossed

01:39:25.579 --> 01:39:28.039
that over the next couple of weeks, we will hit

01:39:28.039 --> 01:39:31.100
platinum, the silver button. It could be on the

01:39:31.100 --> 01:39:33.380
way. We really, really hope so. And once again,

01:39:33.479 --> 01:39:36.199
thank you to all of our subscribers for still

01:39:36.199 --> 01:39:40.359
staying true to our show. Until the next time,

01:39:40.420 --> 01:39:54.399
stay safe, everybody. Bye -bye. Bye -bye. right

01:39:54.399 --> 01:39:55.439
here from Singapore.