To walk away from a successful job and pursue
a passion you never knew you had. Our guest today
knows exactly what that's like. For decades,
she lived a high -flying life in the skies, soaring
the world as an in -flight manager for Singapore
Airlines. But after a long and successful career,
she made a bold move, trading this high -flying
life for a world of deep flavour and fine palates.
At 58, she went back to school and emerged as
a certified WSET wine trainer. She's also a trailblazer
in a fascinating profession you may have never
considered. Singapore's first female water sommelier.
Her story isn't just about a change of jobs.
It's about a total shift in passion and purpose.
Join us as we sit down with Karen Tang, the beverage
professional. who proves that it's never too
late to love what you do. They tell you room
temperature. They are actually referring to continental
countries. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Their room temperature.
Which is cold. 18. Good point! 18 normally. Wow,
good point. Because all these books are written.
Okay, Nadine, I'll tell you what. Thanks. I've
got a certified sommelier here who just said
this, okay? You can drink refrigerated red wine,
correct? Okay. Before we begin the show, here
is an important announcement. For 100 years,
Shura set the standard for professional audio.
Designed to outlast and outperform, Shura products
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Now, let's start the show. Hi, everybody. You
must be wondering, what's this guy doing without
his cap today? I always have a hat on or a cap
on. And for two reasons. The two reasons why
I don't have my cap on my head today is because
some people have said, Chris, you're always wearing
a cap. That's because you've got no hair. Check
it out. I've got a full head of hair, dudes.
And not balding. No, no, no. I'm not balding
either. And the second reason why I have my hair
all done up today, and I'm kind of more dressed
up than outside of my usual rock and roll tees
and my stupid looking tees and stuff, and I'm
looking more like a service staff today, is because
this episode is all about the atas. It's all
about, you know, atas in Malay, for those of
you who are not Singaporeans, you probably don't
understand what that means. Street slang Malay,
atas means it's hot. High class topic today.
It's all about the bourgeois, the bourgeoisie.
You know what I mean? We're talking about, today,
we're talking about wine. And with me in the
studio, I have someone who is a certified wine
sommelier, and she is Karen Tang. Welcome to
the studio, Karen, and welcome to the show. Thank
you, Chris. No, not at all. You might want to
step in just a little bit, just ease yourself
in a little bit so we can pick you up. Okay.
So Karen's here. You heard the introduction.
I mean, she was flying high, flying high in the
skies all over the world when she was working
as an air stewardess or in the cabin crew of
the Singapore Airlines. And right. And then then
all of a sudden she went into this thing about
wine. And we want to find out why on this series
of I love my job. So, Karen. We'd like to start
with you. And I typically would like to start
the show usually in this fashion. In your mind,
for my audience, can you please tell them in
your mind and in your own opinion, who is Karen
Tang? Oh, Chris. Yeah, who is Karen Tang? Karen
Tang actually... Came from a very small town
in Malaysia called Taiping. Tin mining town.
Yes. Yeah. Many, many years ago. Yeah. Singapore
Airlines, they were advertising quite aggressively
looking for cabin crew. So I was looking through
the newspapers and then I said, okay, let's give
it a try. And when I got shortlisted, I was very
excited because I've never taken a plane before.
Wow. Yeah, the first plane ride to Singapore
was coming to Singapore to have an interview
with Singapore Airlines. So I got accepted as
a stewardess. I was very excited. And then as
the years progressed, literally flew by after
two, three years, I realised that, yeah, I'm
beginning to like my job as a stewardess. Okay.
And then over the years, you know, I got promoted
and eventually held the last position as in -flight
manager. Right. For about 16 years. And during
my time in Singapore Airlines, I had the opportunity
to improve myself professionally. Okay. And what
was that? I studied to become a sommelier. Whilst
you were there? Yes. There was an aha moment
during the time when you were in -flight manager,
on board? At the time, I was not an in -flight
manager yet. I was still a chief stewardess.
Ah, okay. But there was an opportunity to study
to become a sommelier. And they offered that
for you in the SQ? SIA offered that? Yeah, offered
to the cabin crew. Wow! Yeah, and you can apply.
Wow! Yeah. Of course, in SQ, we were called...
Air Sommelier, because we are in the air. What
a branding, huh? Yeah, Air Sommelier, we had
a badge. And then SQ also offered foreign courses,
foreign language courses. Oh, they do? Yeah,
so I took up French. I mean, of course, my French
is, you know, I will not sound like a French,
but it's enough to get by. I made the French
announcements. Wow. During my time in SQ, I mean,
when you ask me who's Karen Tang, I think I spent
32 years with Singapore Airlines and I learned
a lot of things that I could have never learned
from books. Wow. And I think I also had the opportunity
to improve myself, to, you know, apply to become
a French speaking crew, to become an air sommelier.
And eventually when I became an air sommelier,
I was selected to be a trainer. Oh. So I was
also a trainer for wines for our cabin crew.
Oh, wow. Yeah. So I did quite a lot of things,
not just fly around. So many benefits. I didn't
realize this. I thought, okay, fine. You guys
get paid pretty decent money. The more you fly,
the more money you make. Just like the pilots.
Pilots make more, I suppose. And then, yeah,
yeah, okay. Can I say it? For lack of a better
adjective, you wait on the passengers, right?
Yeah, but I never realised that you got these
other perks and benefits where you could actually
upgrade and learn new stuff. Yep, there were
other courses. You know, hotels maybe. I would
expect that to happen, but not. So I took up
French and studying to become a sommelier. But
why French? Can I just ask you personally, why
French? Ah, because the first foreign language
to be offered to the cabin crew was French, then
followed by... Oh, okay. I think if I remember
correctly, our beloved late Mr Lee Kuan Yew actually
said something like, how come we don't have crew
speaking other foreign languages apart from English?
Was that his thoughts? I think so. If I remember
correctly, that's how this thing came about.
Wow. Yeah, because of course SQ had... I won't
say had, has foreign speaking crew like Japanese,
Korean, you know, but when you talk about European
languages, the crew were trained. So as far as
I know, it was French and German. So today, is
it, do you know, are you updated whether today's
crew, they all have to learn at least French,
at least one foreign language? Oh, no, no. It's
elective. If you apply, then if you're selected,
then you get selected to be French -speaking
or German -speaking crew. And then the crew will
go on ground for about two months just to learn.
Wow. Yeah. And then, of course, you know, the
proficiency test will take place every year just
to check on the proficiency. Okay. So let's talk
about what we're here for today. Attending the
Wine Sommelier course whilst you were in SQ,
why did you elect yourself to go and attend that
course? What was it? Okay. I enjoyed my wines,
but I didn't know what I was drinking. Okay.
And then I also learned something very valuable.
Always look at what your seniors are doing. Okay.
Listen to what your seniors, saying to each other
or maybe sharing with you. Right. So I heard
from one of my seniors that these courses are
available. So I said, okay, you know, let me
learn how to taste wine and appreciate wine properly,
professionally. Okay. But because, so can I say
that it's because you personally enjoy wine.
And so, wait, why not? I'm just going to go learn
this so I can appreciate wine even more. Correct.
That's the reason. That was the reason. Okay.
And then when I started studying wines and we
were trained by somebody in Singapore Airlines.
Right. But then we also got our more professional
certification, WSET. Whying and Spirits Education
Trust, the one from the UK. So it ranges from
level one to four. After clearing level two and
three, then I said, oh, why not try level four?
So at least, well, when my wings are clipped,
perhaps I could do something. I could do something.
And at that time, Well, I do not have a university
degree. Okay. I know my weaknesses in a lot of
subjects. Right. But if I think, if I can pass
level three for wines, let me have a go at level
four. Okay. Let's see what happens. Right. Yeah.
I, you know, I took all my level four exams in
Hong Kong. Wow. Yeah, because it's not. offered
in Singapore then. It's still not offered now.
So even level four was paid for by SIA? No, no,
no. All these were paid for by myself. So you
took it upon yourself on your own, at your own
expense, to further your education in wine. Correct.
Because you enjoyed it from the beginning. Yeah.
From your, what's it called again? Your first
grade one. Is it grade one? Oh, level one. Level
one. From level one, you had your level one through
SIA. Oh, okay. We had, at that time, Mr. John
Chua was the one training us. Right. Okay, he,
it's just in -house program. Okay. But for WSCT,
the school in England. In England, yeah. They
recognized the course that we went through and
said that we don't even have to go through level
one. If we want to be certified and take more
exams, we could straight away go to level two.
Okay, and that one you paid for? Yeah, but actually
I didn't do Level 2. I did Level 3. I sat for
the exam in the UK. Ah, so you could skip Level
2? Yeah, I mean, I could. How come? I'm curious.
I'm sorry, because there's a gap there somewhere.
You had Level 1 with SIA. It was exempted from...
It exempted you from doing Level 1 with WSCT,
but then Level 2 you could skip. I don't remember
doing level two, but I remember going to the
UK and doing level three. But to be fair, that
was in maybe the late 90s. Okay. Which I think
maybe, would I say a little bit easier than now?
Okay. So they exempted you from level one and
level two. Was it an exemption? I don't know.
But they told you you could go to level three.
Yeah, I just applied. Could I sit for this exam?
Okay. I did it. I did it in the UK, I remember.
Yeah, I did it. Yeah, it must be something. No,
because I was already a sommelier with SQ. The
training was already completed. Correct. We just
wanted to further. Maybe it's because after you
got certified as level one and through the time
that you were serving and then you were demonstrating
and stuff, Maybe because of the time spent, you
could actually be exempted from level two. Kind
of grandfathered, so to speak, you know, so that
you could go straight to level three. I don't
know. I suppose. But it was just an exam, you
know, you take it, if you pass, you pass, you
fail, you take it again. So tell me, level three
was at your personal expense then? Yeah. And
moving forward to level four is also your personal
expense. Correct. And the reason for that, the
reason for you saying, I am going. To go to the
UK for Level 3 and pay and do this, and then
I go to Hong Kong and pay and do Level 4, what
was the motivation behind it? It can no longer
be just because, oh, I enjoy my wine, so I want
to learn more. There must have been something
about it, right, that made you want to go even
further. What was it? Okay. Am I being too probing?
No. Okay. Okay. At that time, he was my boyfriend.
Oh, here we go. Now we are hearing stuff. But
now he's my husband. Okay. Now we're really hearing
stuff. Okay, she married her boyfriend. Okay,
now what happened with that? Boyfriend became
your husband. At that time, I mean, he really
has foresight. Okay. I can say I don't have much.
Okay. So he said, you know, now you have passed
this exam. Looks like you enjoy your wines. Looks
like you enjoy studying this subject. Go further.
Go further. And then, you know. Singapore Airlines
is not forever. You will need something after
SQ. Smart man. So he said, I will pay half for
you. And then you pay the rest. And he was boyfriend
then at the time. Boyfriend then. I said, okay.
I said, okay. Wow. Very good tactic. Whoever
you are. He doesn't really like it when I give
him credit. But I didn't mean... to actually
want to say this? No, it's fine. I mean, why
not? Hey, I'm giving you credit, dude. I mean,
whatever you've done, you've done the right thing.
But you are so clever in your interviewing skills.
Well, you know, I mean, you know, okay. So, it's
a great thing. It's a great story. I think it's
so human. Please tell it. I'm going to tell this
to your husband right now. Don't worry about
it, man. I mean, there are people out there,
right? People out there who are watching and
listening to this and people are trying to make
their own decisions. And this is like stories
from the salt of the earth. You know what I mean?
This is so human. And it's great. Thank you for
sharing. Thank you for sharing. So these are
the reasons because, you know, and the push was
actually for him. Ah, okay. And basically he
told you that, look, listen, we've got to put,
we've got to think. Practically, we use a lot
of pragmatism here. One day you will have to
stop flying and what's next, right? So now that
you've got this, pragmatism says, sense and sensibility
says, let's go and get even better at this. And
you've got something in hand the moment you decide
to leave. Now, you said earlier on, Karen, you
said, when my wings got clipped. Did they clip
your wings or did you clip the wings off from
them? My wings were clipped because of COVID.
Wow. Yeah. That was just recent, like five years
ago. Yeah. Okay. How it works, because I joined
in the, it was December 88. So we go by contracts.
Right. Each contract is five years. Okay. So
at my... Oh, five years renewable, you mean?
Correct. Depending on performance, of course.
Right. Weight, you know. Wow, okay. I'm sure
you know. No, I don't actually. I don't. I don't
really talk to many people from the cabin crew.
So at my level then, in -flight manager, you
know, the one that wears purple, the purple uniform.
Oh, those guys are the in -flight managers? Yeah.
The purple uniform. See, I'm such a plebeian.
I don't know. Okay, purple uniform are the ones
who are in -flight managers. Thank you for schooling
me. Now I know. You have the blue, the green,
the red, and then purple. Red, I know. The purple
is the highest, huh? Then the chief steward wears
what? Red. And the chief stewardess? Red. Red
also. And then COVID clipped your wings. Five
-year renewable contract and what happened? We
call it extensions because for in -flight manager,
it's a total of five contracts. That means 25
years. So there will be one more. Contract, you
know. Oh, so that's how it works. They give you
a total maximum of five contracts of five years
each. Yeah. So 25 years like long service and
goodbye. Wait, let me count. Wait, wait, wait.
I had four contracts. Was it four? Let me see.
That's why I'm a stewardess. I can't even do
simple math. No, no, no. This is too much wine.
Okay. Yeah, it was five, you know. And then the
next one, because it will be beyond. Beyond the
25 years. Beyond the 25. Then they will offer
in terms of two plus one or one plus two. Right,
so shortened contracts. Yeah. So I remember they
told me that if not for COVID, there would have
been a possibility. of extension. Right. Yeah.
But because of COVID, then, you know, yeah, correct.
I stopped at 32 years because I finished 30 years.
Right. So it could have been two plus one. Could
have been 33 or something. Could have been. So,
yeah. So, yeah, correct. My wings were clipped
during COVID. How did you feel when that happened
to you? After so many years, three decades in
one place. Of course, disappointed. Okay. Yeah,
disappointed. What was going through your mind
when you were told, hey, I'm going to clip your
wings? Well, you know, you're disappointed, but
you need to accept it. But then, Chris, to be
very honest, even before, you know, extension
of contract the five years before. Because the
whole, I would say that they are very dynamic.
You know, things will change. You do not really
know. But when I was told, okay, at this level,
you have four contracts and then you would not
know that you could possibly have another contract.
So when I was up to my fourth contract, I already
told myself, okay, Karen, go and do the things
that you want to do, places you wanted to visit
because you may not have a contract extension,
you may not get to go there or you may not get
to eat in this restaurant. So I was doing stuff
like that. So whilst you're flying, you want
to make sure you go and visit places. So which
means to say, I did not take all the extensions
for granted. So basically you were kind of buffering
and getting ready, readying yourself to leave.
It can happen to anyone. It can happen. So that's
why I didn't use the word like it came as a surprise
to me. I said to you earlier on, disappointed,
but you know. But it happened. It happened. Okay.
Okay. This is a whimsical question. Okay. Whimsical.
Was there a single wine or bottle particularly?
that first captured your imagination, truly opened
your eyes to the world of wine? Was there anything
like that? Like, I popped open this. It could
have even been doing your time, you know, learning
to be a sommelier and you poured it. What do
you call it? You pour, right? You pour it. I
am a commoner. And you pour into your goblet.
Goblet, right? Okay. And then you swirl and then
you take a, you just, you know, What's the word
for it? And you take a sip and you go, was there
anything like that? Any particular wine bottle
that just opened up your imagination and go,
wow, this is great. This question actually brings
me to tasting a proper wine for the very first
time. Yeah, yeah. Not even touching about becoming
a sommelier and things like that. Okay. So that
bottle would be a... Robert Mondavi Cabernet
Sauvignon. Robert Mondavi Cabernet Sauvignon.
Cabernet Sauvignon. Yeah. Somebody opened it
for me and let me try. What was it? What was
it? I just want to hear from you. You know, I
just want to hear how, what was it? What was
it about that Robert Mondavi Cabernet Sauvignon
that captured your imagination? What was it?
How would you describe it? Okay. I didn't know
much, but I found, you know, the wine to be very
concentrated, but balanced. and a lot of fruits
and that one particular fruit that i enjoy and
love the nose very very much is blackcurrant
okay yeah and for cabernet sauvignon you get
a lot of that okay hang on hang on you use a
lot of terminology the nose hang on hang on Karen,
before becoming, as you said in your own words,
before becoming a sommelier, had that Robert
Mondavi Cabernet Sauvignon. Without knowing all
these terminologies, the official terminologies,
how would you have described it? Oh, nice wine.
Nice wine. So all the other descriptives that
came, you just mentioned the blackcurrant, the
nose of the blackcurrant. It's so balanced, condensed.
It all came after you became a sommelier, right?
Yeah, yeah, actually. Okay, people. That's the
reason why we're having this episode. Because
an idiot like me would have gone just like, what?
Karen said, nice wine. Yeah. What is it about
a wine? I don't know. But it was nice. It wasn't
like, was it like Rabina? Oh, no, no, no. It's
wine. So that's why we're having this episode.
Because I think we just need to be schooled a
little bit more, right? No harm what, you learn
something new. What the hell, right? So this
is going to be fun. What did you just put up
there, Kai? I forgot. Okay, you flash that on
screen. You've got prices too. See, those are
all different noses. Thank you very much, Kai.
That was funny. Okay. So Robert Mondavi, Cabernet
Sauvignon. As I said, that was a whimsical question.
You were already kind of, can I safely say this?
Karen Tang was already prepared. for wings to
be clipped. And I said, nevermind at that stage.
Were you at level three or level four? When I
left SQ? Yeah. Oh, already level four. So you
were like, I got level four. Was it like that?
Oh, no, no, no, no. It was a tremendous, or was
it a tremendous leap? A tremendous leap from,
I'm no longer working in that, in that space
where I've been for 30 years. And now I got my
level four. Did you decide straight away that
this is what I'm going to do? No. Well, I was
also teaching wines with SQ. And after, I mean,
post SQ and straight away, I said, okay, I think
I would apply to be a wine educator because of
my qualification. Oh, there was one more thing.
Yeah. When I was in Singapore Airlines, I was
also selected. under this program where the school
in the UK actually trained us to be educators.
Okay, that's cool. Yeah, that's cool. It's like
a trainer -trainer program. Correct. So I have
that qualification from the school itself. Okay.
And that has equipped me to teach. Okay. Yeah.
So now that we're talking about WSET, it's a
global benchmark for white knowledge. Yeah. I
know, actually. I also do my research before
you come in, you know. So as a trainer, what's
the most common misconception you see students
bring in the classroom about wine? What's the
most common misconception? What do they bring?
When you train students, right, in wine appreciation,
do they come with any misconceptions about wine?
What's the most common one? I don't think there's
any, I don't know whether what I'm about to say
is a misconception because for level one, of
course, it's quite simple. But then when you
progress on to level two or three, I think maybe
people would not have expected that the syllabus
would be difficult. Right. But is there any misconception?
Let me try to explain my question. If I walk
in, to your classroom, right? And then let's
say five of us walk into your classroom, okay?
And in a class of eight, there's five of us,
which is a majority of the class. Is there anything
the five people would say to you that you would
have to go, yeah, everybody asked that question
is wrong. Everybody thinks about why in that
way and it's wrong. Is there any one misconception
at all? Like, for example, how they perceive
wine to be? So far, I don't think so. Wow. So
good are these people. I can't recall. But I
haven't taught for a long time. So these people
come in on a clean slate. I come here with an
open mind and I just want to learn. That's it.
I just want to learn. Because some people could
come into any course with certain misconceptions
like, oh, this is how I see this thing to be,
this product. But actually, that's not how it
should be seen. Oh, to be honest, no. No? No.
Okay, that's good. They may have their preferences
for certain things, but not like a misconception
whereby you throw it out and then have a... Big
debate. Oh, is it? Yeah, so far. Really? So basically,
they just listen and learn. That's it. Oh, they
have questions pertaining to the syllabus. Like
what? Like what? Show me one. Common one. Common
one. Let me think. I can't remember. So far.
Am I putting you in a spot? No, I just. Have
they ever asked me anything? No. Because you
said that they actually ask you questions. Ah,
okay. Okay, maybe this thing, you know. Screw
cap versus a natural cork. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Good one, good one. Let's share that. Okay, okay,
okay. This one, this one, this one. So that could
be a misconception, you know. A lot of people
would think that screw cap is inferior. to a
natural cork or a bottle of wine that is sealed
with a cork. Yeah, so this has got to be dispelled
because it doesn't mean that if it is a screw
cap, therefore the quality is inferior. You know
what? It is what? But it is inferior. No. Why?
If it's... Wait, wait, wait. Wait, before you
address that, me being stubborn about that, screw
cap versus corked, right? What is the meaning
of when someone says, Karen, this wine is corked.
What does it mean? This wine is corked. That
means the fault lies with the natural cork because
cork can come in the form of plastic, synthetic.
So those corks, you won't have problems. But
natural cork, because it comes from a tree, and
the cork could have been diseased. So when you
use the cork, when you cut the tree, you probably
don't know. Right. How would you know that the
bottle is corked? Ah, from the smell. Smell or
sediment? Smell. Smell. What kind of smell? We
call it cork taint, but actually it smells...
Describe the smell. It's damp, damp wood. Oh,
wow. Or, you know, in a dilapidated building,
that kind of places where you walk in, those
damp... Musky. Yeah. Musky could be... A nice
description for dogs, you know, so. Some perfumes
are also musky, but I'm trying to draw you to
that place whereby. Moldy. Could be a little
bit. Okay. That kind of foul smell. So when that
happens, the whole wine is corked and it's going
to be, forget it, you can't drink it. No, because
we won't die from it. Right. I'll be very honest.
If the wine is corked, If the wine is super expensive,
I'm not going to throw it down the drain. I would
at least drink half a glass. Okay, it's not only
detected from the nose, but when you taste it,
it almost echoes in your palate. It does? A cocked
wine. Okay, like how? Same. Oh, really? Yeah,
that kind of cardboard, wet flooring. I don't
know, man. I watch a lot of movies, you know,
and a lot of TV shows and I see all these atas
people who order wine. The waiter will come and
I'll tell you, he'll pop the wine and after that
he'll pour it into the glass. The guy will swirl
it and he'll taste it first and he says, hmm,
this wine is corked. I don't want it. These days,
it's quite difficult to find a corked wine because
it's synthetic. Wines are also well -made these
days. These days, the younger ones, newer wine,
new generation, that means, right? Yeah, they
are well -made, you know, and then the wineries,
they are also... How about the real old bottles?
Okay, before I go there, before I go there, I'm
getting carried away. Let me just go back to
the point again. Screw cap and corks, okay? And,
I mean, I just feel, it's easier, of course,
if you buy a screw cap wine, but to me, it looks
cheap. You know, you don't have the atasness,
you know, must be atas a bit. You don't have
the atasness to it. But one way you need to really
pull a cork out, you know what I mean? To me,
that's like, that one is probably a little bit
more atas wine. Is that the wrong perception?
Correct. Wrong. Really? In general. So you can
have a really good, expensive bottle of wine
that is screw cap. Yes. Can you name me one?
Henschke from Australia. Henschke. Henschke,
the brand. Okay. I remember, if I'm not wrong,
their Mount Elderton is already... Screw -capped.
Screw -capped, yeah. Okay. And they retail easily
for $80, $90 Singapore dollars. How about those
with a synthetic cork? Synthetic cork, mostly
more inexpensive wines. Huh? Yeah. Because if
you talk about those Grand Cru and very expensive
wines, there's already oak investment from the
producer. Right. Of course, they would use a
natural cork. Oak investment. Yeah, because oak
investment meaning the wine is oaked. Okay, okay.
Casks. Yeah. Okay, in oak casks. Yeah. And then
natural corks will allow the wine to be aged
and then let it breathe. Because synthetic corks,
synthetic. See? So corked wine. Corked wine bottle.
Wine bottles with cork, not corked wine. Wine
bottles with cork. Better. Because you can let
it age. Screw cap, we can't, right? Ah. Okay.
Okay. From what I know, even screw cap, you can
tell the manufacturers, I don't know how they
do it. Okay. Apparently, they can. Oh, they can?
They can from the screw cap. I don't know how
small the holes are or whatever they do with
it to be able to let the wine age. Wow. This
is what I've read. Okay. But I... Have you encountered
those before? No. No. Okay. See, so... Perception
is reality. Everyone seems to have that. I'm
pretty sure I'm not the sole person who thinks
about it that way. And you agree that we're talking
about this because when I ask you that question,
now we come into a whole new topic, which is
great. So when we have wine from, say, the 1700s,
wow. One of the 1700s, say 300 plus years ago.
Aged for 300 plus years. Is there such a thing?
I'm sure there is. Darn expensive probably. I've
never come across, but I do know, I do remember
the champagne that they found. deep in the ocean.
Yeah, I don't know how many hundreds of years.
That one I don't remember. Including what, you
know, including wine from amphoras still preserved
from ancient Rome at the bottom of the ocean
and still drinkable. Yeah, so let's talk about
aging wine. When you have got wine that's being
aged, why, Is it that the older the wine, provided
of course the environment is correct, the cellar
is right, the bottle is being turned every now
and then, I suppose. Am I right about that? No
need. Or is that BS? That's BS, huh? No, you
don't need to do that. You don't need to turn
the wine? No, no, no. Minimum intervention. Okay,
minimum intervention. Oh, really? When you store
your wines, just leave them there? I always what?
Okay, I watch TV, call me stupid or what, but
I watch people on TV, they turn the bottles.
No, you don't have to. No, you don't have to.
Okay, but what's the reason for aging wine? Okay,
some wines are meant to be aged and some are
not. Right. So when you have decided to buy wines
to be aged, you need... The tannins to settle,
we are talking about red wine, to be smoother.
The tannin from the skin of the grape, you mean?
Yeah. Okay. To be smoother. And then you would
expect the wine, after aging, it will not be
so harsh on your palate. I learned this when
I came to Singapore. They call the wines siap
-siap, you know? Yeah, siap -siap. But actually,
it's the tannins. More vinegar type, basically
siap -siap, right? I was told it's more the tannins,
you know, that dry feeling in your mouth. Okay.
So when you age your wine, everything will settle
down. Right. Yeah. You need to tame, so -called
tame the wine. Right. Okay. Yeah. That's why
you age your wine. But of course, some people...
Tame the wine. Yeah. Wow. But this is just my
own word. It's not a wine term. Okay. Okay. Thanks
for clarifying that. Well, some people age their
wine, they keep it stored for investment purposes.
Why? I mean, how would one make money? Okay,
basically, they put it up for auction, you mean?
Oh, they can just sell it, you know, auction
or... Okay, but why? Okay, if you open, say,
a fantastic bottle of aged wine, and God forbid
you open it. Oh, these people actually buy these
wines? Okay, maybe... Not to drink it. Not to
drink it. Some drink it, they age it, and wait
for a number of years, and then you enjoy your
wine. But some people just buy it for investment.
Therefore, you also age your wine. But why? You
said to tame the tannin. And after being aged
for so many years, and then you pour it, what's
the difference between having it now and having
it, say, 100 years later? Okay, because wine
changes and is constantly evolving. Because a
newly made wine, it would just be very fruity.
The tannins would be very harsh. But then it
goes through the process of maturation and then
you will get what we call secondary aromas, depending
on whether it's white wine or red wine. So secondary
aromas can come from oak aging. Because you leave
your wine in the barrel. And the smell, the fragrance
of the oak gets into the wine. Okay, what else?
Because oak barrels, they are rounded. Yeah,
yeah. Right? Yeah. But how do you make it round?
You... get the carpenter to make it round. It's
called toasting, toasting the wood because when
you cut out wood, it's just a straight plank.
Okay, okay, okay. So you need to bend it a little
bit. So you bend it because physics, you heat.
Yeah, you toast it and then all this will contribute
to the smell of the wine. Oak itself, depending
where it comes from. Because it's smoked. Yeah.
So you also get that charred smell. Okay, you
get that. Coffee. Can you get the chart smell
really? When I smell things, I can't get anything
except for the grape or whatever it is. That's
because you have not been highlighted to the
nuances. I have yet to reach that level. Yeah,
my nose is... Blocked. Everybody can smell. Really?
Everybody can smell. Okay, later we'll find out,
okay? Yeah. Let's come back to you. Let's come
back to you. So your wings were clipped. You
have your level four. What next? What happened
after that? It was COVID period. Yes. Okay. What
happened after that? Yeah. I applied to be a
mind educator. And then also during the lockdown,
my husband said to me, would you like to study
to become a water sommelier? Okay, the water
bit. Okay. Yeah. Like Sam Wu. Yeah. So yeah,
during the lockdown, you know, okay, I applied
to be a wine educator with whatever schools here
in Singapore. But during that time also, husband
dangled that idea and I went for it. So you went
for Water Sommelier as well? Yeah. Okay. Yeah,
I went for it because I was curious and then
I thought maybe my husband was joking. How serious
can I take this topic? But after applying for
it and got accepted, when I went there after
two days, I said, wow. It has opened up to another
world. Okay. Now, what's the difference? Is there
any similarity at all between tasting wine and
then tasting water? Are there similar principles?
Is there any difference at all? Similar principles,
but the water will not have such clear expression
as compared to wines. Not as clear. And I have
a very, very good teacher. Yeah, certain things
I never knew when I was learning about wines.
Right. Yeah, but through him. Right. Yeah, I
learned one or two things more. Did it refine
your palate for wine after going through the
Water Sommelier course? Do you think? Not really.
Basically remain about the same. It's just that
other kind of vocabulary description for water
that we would not use for wine. Okay. How about,
what's the concept of terroir? Ah, this word.
Terroir is a French word and then what we understand
would be, you know, where the origin of the wine
is from, you know, the land, the terroir. If
I'm not mistaken, I've heard some French people
say that terra doesn't just refer to the land.
It refers to the people, the culture, everything
that encompasses where that wine was made. Oh,
cow. That's what I remember. That's so artsy.
Yeah, I remember reading that and I said, hmm.
Because I think terah is... So when you taste
the terah, the terah, and you go, hmm, I can
taste the earth. I can taste that this was probably
harvested during spring. Oh, and I can also feel
the dance that these people used to dance in
their village. Come on! In very simple terms,
terah is like the weather. The ground upon which
the grapes were grown, right? But this person
said that and it made me think. But isn't terroir
the same for water? Some people call it that,
terroir, but... T -E -R -R -O -I -R. If you guys
want to go and say, Google it, okay? T -E -R
-R -O -I -R. Terroir. It's French, by the way.
Yes. I would not use... Terroir for water. You
wouldn't use terroir for water? Would there be
a term for it then? I think terroir is more suitable
for wines. Okay. Yeah, I would not use it for
water. There was a Pu 'er tea tasting. Pu 'er.
Did I pronounce it right in Chinese? Pu 'er.
Cha. Yeah. Where the water you use made a noticeable
difference. What was that? Tell us all about
that whole story about the Pu 'er tea. Oh, okay.
It was with a group of people who loved their
tea drinking sessions. And that particular day,
they selected Pu 'er. And I brought along about
10 types of water. Right. Just to see which water
they liked. Right. to brew their pu 'er tea.
Okay. Yeah. I brought along waters that were
lowly mineralized to medium. Right. I remember
all that. Don't worry. Yeah. And it will be suicidal
if I brought something highly mineralized, you
know, for their tea tasting. Because it will
spoil the whole tea taste. Exactly. Too much
mineral. Exactly. So when I arrived, they tasted,
I mean, they used some of the water. Right. They
told me their favorite. And then I brought this
particular bottle and it became their new favorite.
So they won't drink pu 'er tea without their
water anymore. Yes. The next day, they went shopping
for their particular water. They bought pallets
and pallets of it. Wow. But now the water is
no longer available in Singapore. Oh, no. No,
no, no. Because of them. Not because of them.
Yeah. But it goes to show, you know, these people
really know their stuff. Okay. Yeah. And they're
open to trying other waters because they believe
that it is a very important part in brewing this
kind of tea. Right. Now coming back to you again.
So you went for the Water Sommelier course. And
what happened after that? I came back, I got
quarantined for two weeks. Okay, after that,
I was very, very excited. I went to one Michelin
-starred restaurant. I gave a proposal. I said,
you know, if you list a wine menu, you will be
the first one. Not only in Singapore, but I suppose
Asia to have a water menu. A water menu? A water
menu. Wow, okay. But, well, as you can see, it's
not successful. That was in 2021, but I was all
fired up because in Europe, they have water menus.
Right. Not many, not many restaurants, but they
do have. Okay, then, you know, still, it's a
very tough and niche topic, water. Water is,
everybody knows it, but as a water sommelier
to impart knowledge or share. It's still very,
very difficult. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Very difficult.
What happened after that? Did you proceed, progress
somewhere with your new career after leaving
SQ, after coming back from Switzerland, right?
Germany. Germany. Germany. And then you got your
wine certification up to level four. You got
your auto sommelier one. You came back, you approached
a Michelin star restaurant and they probably
poo -pooed the whole thing off. And in Singapore,
it's very hard. I know that the story about water
has been done with Sam Wu last season. So now
what happened with you right after all that?
What did you do? Did you start a business? Did
you start a company? How did you move on? I didn't
start a business. Okay. I did not start a company.
Okay. I just tried to get myself known. through
social media, which I'm, to be very honest, not
very strong presence. Okay. Yeah. So I have had
some engagements whereby they found me through
LinkedIn or Instagram, where I gave water presentation
and talks. Right. Like this one called The Essence
of Water. Ah. The one you were, it was held in
collaboration with Shartek. Correct. That shall
text no more, I think. Yeah. Sadly. How do you
see the future of non -alcoholic beverages evolving
to be on par with the sophistication of wine
and spirit? To be very honest, it seems like
this topic is having a lot of attention now.
I don't know. In five years, is it going to accelerate?
But right now, it seems like everybody is moving
towards that. But people say everybody, I think
they mean the younger generation. But I just
came back from the Czech Republic and in Prague,
this wine bar is full of young people. They are
drinking their wines. Probably the Czech Republic
compared to Central Europe is a little bit different.
I don't know. Okay, what's up in Central Europe?
Are the young drinking wine? Apparently drinking
less. Really? Apparently. So they're getting
as boring as Singaporeans. Okay. Come on. We
are a boring lot. Come on. You want to go coffee
clubbing? For goodness sake. Apparently they
drink less or alcohol -free wine. Even in Italy,
a winemaker... said to me that the younger people
are asking for alcohol -free wine. What? Yeah.
Eh, Ribena lah, they. Y 'all want alcohol -free,
y 'all go and buy Ribena. Hello. Goodness gracious
me. I hope it's just a fad because alcohol -free
wine cannot be compared to... Okay, what difference
does the alcohol make in a wine? Okay, apart
from making you high, I don't know. But you believe
that a purist should actually have wine with
all its alcohol and stuff. The way it's made,
you know, in fact, alcohol -free wine is more
expensive to make. Yeah. Because there's an additional
step. But for people to drink alcohol -free wine,
I think they feel that it's healthier. That's
definitely the reason. If it's healthier, then
just take a regular fruit juice. Exactly. I don't
know. Go and squeeze a papaya on your bloody
juicy blender. I'm sorry for those who love alcohol
-free wines, but this is just my humble opinion.
I am not being humble about it. I'm telling you,
go and get your damn juicer, put a papaya in
there and go and bloody make papaya juice. Forget
about your alcohol. make people go through so
much trouble I want wine not the alcohol okay
because when you when you drink wine I mean with
the alcohol presence it gives that extra dimension
of taste also because when you assess wines you
also feel the alcohol level you know yeah I mean
you can gauge whether or not there's one like
40 % 50 % alcohol. So I don't know. Maybe it's
a fad, which I hope. I hope it's a fad. We can
look. This whole season, I've been talking about
it like a parrot, you know, like all nightlife
in Singapore is dead. And then this explains
why people want to drink wine without the alcohol,
get lost. Well, anyway, I got news for you, man.
I tell you, I tell you too. I got news for you
because, because I, Actually, don't like wine.
The only person in this house of mine, this home,
that drinks wine is my wife. And she, Cardinal
Sin, Cardinal Sin, she will only drink red that's
out in the fridge. That's fine. Really? I thought
red supposed to be a room temperature. Ah, okay.
Then we have to ask what is our room temperature
now? Hot lah. Because when you read books, they
tell you room temperature. They are actually
referring to continental countries. Their room
temperature. Which is cold. 18. Good point! 18
normally. Wow, good point. Because all these
books are written. Okay, then I'll tell you what.
Thanks. I've got a certified water sommelier
here who just said this, okay? You can drink
refrigerated red wine, correct? Can. Okay, then
I'll tell you. You all know who you are. All
these atas friends of mine who go and frown at
my wife and say that, hey, why would people drink
red wine cold? Come out from fridge. to you can
okay okay for example I just defended her for
example you let's say your red wine is kept it's
not in a chiller it's not kept in a chiller for
example yeah okay right that means your wine
could be 25 degrees Celsius yeah sure possible
yeah But when they say, oh, drink your red wine
at room temperature with reference to continental
countries, it's 18 degrees. So you can chill
it first. Basically temperate countries. Yeah,
you can chill it first. I mean, you can drink
wine in spring. You can drink wine in winter.
You can drink wine in autumn. They're all bleeding
cold. I have come across in the past when I order
a bottle of red wine and I find that it's not
hot, but it's veering towards warm. I will ask
for a bucket. an ice bucket and chew it. Right.
And then drink it. It's much more enjoyable.
Now that you left SQ, as I said, you know, as
I've asked you just now, and you brought the
idea of water, of having a water menu to a Michelin
star restaurant, wouldn't it be ideal then for
you, since you're certified up to level four,
to go, say, talk about or create a wine pairing
thing and work with restaurants and hotels and
stuff. Wouldn't that be a lot more profitable
for you? More forward moving. It's a great idea,
Chris. But first they need to accept that water
has taste. No, I'm talking about wine. This is
an easier road for you, isn't it? You're talking
about water and wine pairing, right? No, no,
water pairing. Wine pairing with food. Not with
water. No, nothing to do with water because water
is going to take a hell of a long time for anyone
to accept that as a model, isn't it? But as a
business model, wine would move a lot better
for you, wouldn't it? I think a lot of restaurants
have their own sommeliers and they can craft
out recommendations. To be honest, I would not
want to work in a restaurant. Okay. Yeah. I've
done service. For a very long time. For a very
long time. I very much enjoy being an educator
now. Okay. Yeah. Or consulting for wines, how
to have a wine list. That is fine. If people
come to me, I would enjoy that very much too.
Okay. But to be in a restaurant physically, I
prefer not to. Right. Okay. Okay. So what's next
for you? For anyone, one of the reasons why I
ask you that question is because for anyone watching
this episode who loves wine, but is thinking
about a career change or a deeper dive into the
world of being a wine sommelier, specifically
wine sommelier, what's... what advice would you
give? And what's next for you will also be that
advice that you give as well. Do you know what
I mean? Yeah. Go for it. Really? Go for it. Can
I make money or not? Go for it because I say
this because I don't know. It's just my own observation.
During the lockdown, I see a lot of people signing
up for the WSET course in Singapore. Right. And
the awareness of being a sommelier as a profession,
it has grown. People are more aware of that.
Okay. Yeah. Go for it because it's a credible
profession. Okay. Yeah. And then it's... a lot
of learning and it's very specialised. Right.
It's not easy. Okay. And I feel that anything
that is easy is not very exciting to pursue because
it's so easy, right? But becoming a sommelier
is not easy. You need to learn, you need to taste
and you need to really work very, very hard.
Right. And I believe anybody can be trained.
So, You're saying that people could actually
have a second lease of life, a second career,
you know, taking on a second career by doing
this? I don't think for everyone. Yeah, I mean,
well, anyone who has the interest, that is. Yes,
if you have an interest, yes. I think, similarly,
yes, you can. Okay. No, you can. I have also
witnessed or read... There are some who pick
it up so fast. It's just a couple of years, you
know, they are able to really train the palate.
It also comes back to how interested you are,
how dedicated you are to what you want to learn
and how far you want to go. Yeah, it is possible.
One final question. What's next for Karen Tang?
What's your plans? My plans? Continue to be an
educator. And I would really, really like to
see Singaporeans moving away from just picking
up any bottled water. I mean, of course, this
thing, becoming a water sommelier, is very new
to me. But I see it every day, especially in
the supermarket. I see people buying cartons
and cartons of distilled water. really wish I
could go up and tell them, please don't buy that.
It's not good for you. But I can't say it. They'll
think that I'm probably cuckoo or a busybody.
So I would really like to see Singaporeans out
there, not only Singaporeans, whoever is out
there, be it in Singapore or anywhere else, if
they're going to hold a bottle of water, let
it be. Okay. Natural mineral water. Okay. If
not, Carry a water tumbler, whatever it is, and
make sure what's inside in Singapore is our good
old tap water. Because it's of very, very good
quality. Okay, really? Wow. Yes, very good quality.
Okay, how about wine? Any last words you want
to say about wine? Just keep on drinking. That's
all you got to say about wine. I would reiterate
what I said earlier on. that people moving away
from drinking non -alcoholic wines would just
be a fad because I would really like to see people
enjoying the wines. Okay, Karen, I mentioned
to you just now, I don't like wine. And that's
true. Okay. I'm like, I'm a, can I, should I,
am I allowed to say it? Okay, I think I can.
I mean, I appreciate single malt whiskey more.
rather than drinking wine. Yeah, okay. I don't
mind the Beaujolais Nouveau because it's so grapey
and so fresh in my palate. And that's about the
size of it. I don't like Cabernet Sauvignon because
I think it's too damn dry. So I don't like, per
se, drinking wine. But before we go to the...
You have to try and convince me. about wine,
which is what we're going to be doing soon. But
before we go there, just tell me the difference.
White and red. The only difference I know about
having a white or a red is that if you're having
white meat, you have white wine. If you're having
red meat, you have red wine. That's it. Period.
What do you have to say about that? Difference
in white and red. that's just very basic guideline.
Okay, I know. I'm very basic. Yes. No, no, no.
Chablis, Chardonnay, Cabernet, Pinot Noir. Okay,
so which is which? You know what I'm saying?
That's what every, I mean, most people will say
white meat with white wine, you know, but then
we have to take into consideration how it's cooked,
the sauces that go with it. Huh? I give you an
example of chicken rice. Right. So chicken rice
is flavoured rice. Right. It's poached chicken.
Right. But then you don't eat it like that. You
will have your chicken rice with the dark soy
sauce, chilli sauce, ginger. And these three
sauces will play a part and impact the wine.
It does? So that doesn't mean that you go white
because you're having chicken. Correct. So you
can go with your Beaujolais, a light red. Right.
Yeah, because of the sauces. Beaujolais is considered
as a light red. Yeah. Because you mentioned Beaujolais
Nouveau and it's only released in November every
year as a form of celebration. Correct. It's
like a harvest celebration, right? Yeah. But
well, you have a very specific taste because
in Singapore, not many people know about it.
Yeah. Also because you know why? I'm an MC too.
So I use... For two or three years running, when
the Beaujolais Nouveau launch happens here in
Singapore, I'm the guy that hosts the launch.
So I've learned a little bit about the Beaujolais
Nouveau. And of course, naturally, since I'm
hosting it, I have a glass in my hand. Yeah,
that's why. And short of me saying, hey, this
is a little bit high -class Ribena. Yeah, I kind
of like it because it's so fresh. It's like fruit
juice, man. Correct. And it kind of disappeared
in Singapore already. Has it? I don't see. No,
you're right. I actually haven't seen any. Even
in the past, our humble fair price would be selling.
Yeah, George Dubuff. George Dubuff? Dubuff. Yeah,
George Dubuff. I think he's the guy, a very well
-known one. Colourful bottles. Yeah, colourful
bottles. Correct. George Dubuff. George Dubuff.
Okay. I think in Asia, there is only one country
that celebrates Beaujolais Nouveau to a great
extent. And that is? Japan. Oh. Yeah. Wow. From
what I know. You know, we Singaporeans, you know
what I'm saying? Beaujolais Nouveau, you can't
pronounce it. I think, I think. Beaujolais nouveau.
Can pronounce that? Yes, okay. New wine. I don't
know, but please don't be angry with me. I think
a lot of us are mostly followers. Yeah, we're
ignorant. We are followers, right? Mostly, yeah.
We follow without really understanding. And that's
true. That's the reason, you see, because a few
years ago, you see the Beaujolais Nouveau. Yeah.
But now you don't see it. You don't see it, yeah.
You know, we're followers. As a country, yeah,
okay, you're saying as a country, we follow,
but then again, if the demand is there, why should
we supply it? Isn't there, why should we supply
it? Right? But we also have people who, you know,
because I see this guy doing it, this guy doing
it, this guy doing it, so therefore I also go
do it. I see this guy go queue up for this, I
go queue up as well. I don't even know what the
hell I'm doing, but I go queue up, you know?
We are like that. And if this guy is drinking
a Cabernet Sauvignon, I will drink a Cabernet
Sauvignon. If this guy is drinking a Pinot Noir,
I will drink a Pinot Noir. Do you have a favorite?
I don't know. Look, I'm not trying to insult
anybody, but I think, let's be real here. I mean,
this is what we are like. You know, very few
people are like you. I won't even stake claim
to that because I personally don't like wine.
But there are many who pretend that they like
wine because they want to get along with the
Joneses. So there are people like that, you know.
But, well, those who do appreciate it, kudos
to you. You know what I mean? I mean, and then
those of you who don't understand it, don't pretend
to know it, wouldn't find out more, which is
what we're going to do now. So we're going to
say, Cut for the moment. But when we come back,
this whole podcast table will have some wine
on the table. And we're going to go through some
basic rudimentary stuff about how we can appreciate
that bottle of vino. We'll be right back. And
we're back. We're back because it's time for
Karen to make me a believer. For me to try to
like vino. Believe it or not, guys, I hardly
indulge, you know, honestly, in booze. I do know
that I don't, but it's kind of rare. But when
I do, it's not really much at all. And I've always
found wine, Karen, to be a little bit more vinegar
type. You know, it tastes like, yeah, like maybe
because I had the wrong type of wine, but can't
be. Can't be too. To me, it's like. This soury
thing in my mouth, you know? Yeah. So school
me, please. Okay, we need that soury thing. Yeah,
we do. To begin with, because it makes the wine
fresh. Okay. We would stay away from the word
sour because it is equated to vinegar, like what
you said. Yeah. But we would prefer to use a
better word, which is acidity. Okay. Acidity.
Fine. It's the same thing, but it's a wine term.
Yes, ma 'am. Acidity. Okay. I don't like the
acidity. How about that? Okay. I'm useless. I'm
beyond redemption. No, no, no, no. So we got
a red vino and we got a white vino. Chris, I've
brought for you to taste a white wine. Yes, ma
'am. and a red wine. I specifically selected
one from the old world. The old world? And one
from the new world. Okay, then I've only got
to explain what you mean by old world and new
world. So, you know, I don't know whether your
friends will tell you things like, oh, from the
old world. Old world meaning mostly from the
Northern Hemisphere. Northern Hemisphere. The
most of... Mostly European countries? Sure, sure.
Then the Old World would be mostly Southern Hemisphere.
Uh -huh. South Africa, Australia, New Zealand.
Oh, that's considered Old World? New, new. Oh,
New World. That's New World, okay. I chose such
wines just to let you have an idea and also we
could talk a little bit about it. Okay. So this
is from the Old World. A wine from Austria. I
thought so because it looks German to me. Yeah.
And this one is from South Africa. Right. Yeah.
We will start and then back on the topic of screw
cap and with a proper cork. Yeah. Okay. Which
one do we do first? We will try the white wine
first. So let me just introduce to you, Chris.
This wine is called Stift Gottweik. Okay, let
me show it to the camera. Stift. Stift Gottweik.
Stift Gottweik. Yeah, it's from a monastery.
Okay, sorry, monks. The monks, I tell you, monks,
they make great booze. So it's since 1083, the
monastery is called Stift Good White. Stift Good
White. Yeah. And they got a little cherub there
as a logo. Yeah. So this wine is called Mess
Wine. Mess Wine. Okay. What's that mean? For
mass. For mass. Yeah. So this is wine for mass.
Yeah. That's what they told me. They use this
for mass. Yeah. Don't they use red wine for mass?
Yeah. That's what I've been asked to. I asked
them, but they say, yeah, we use this. So this...
It's mess wine. Okay. So this mess wine is very
young, 2024. Right. It's made from a grape that
is not common. It's called Gruner Veltliner.
How do you know that that's the name of the grape?
We have to study. So that's how you actually
see that the grape is called this particular
grape. Yeah. And so did there are different types
of grape that has got different kind of names?
No, no, no. This is a grape name. Well, it is
a grape name. It's a name of a grape. Okay. So
that's why we have to study. Otherwise, you would
not know whether this is the name of the wine
or a grape. So there are different kinds of grape
that are named differently? Yes. Okay. Yes. Example
in Spain, the same grape can be called different
names depending on which part of Spain. Right.
You have the Basque area. The Basque, yeah. But
not for most countries. Okay. It's confusing
enough. Yeah, okay, let's not go there. Otherwise,
you have to invoice me for my audience. No, no,
no. But I've never seen Gruner Veltliner called
in any other name anywhere. Oh, so it's a standard
name across the board. Yeah. Although the fact
that it sounds very German. But it is a native
grape from Austria. Right. This grape is only
12 % alcohol, so you won't... You can see the
volume of alcohol on the back label. Yeah. Okay.
Correct. So for... You need any help? Okay. All
right. For any wine tasting, we will like the
room to be, you know, free of any aromas. which
is fine. There's nothing. Kai is our studio's
manager. And then also before tasting the wine,
make sure we have not taken any strong coffee,
kopi kau, sambal, those. No, it was ages ago.
Yeah. Okay. My palate's clear. Okay. Then the
glass must be free of any smell, stains. Clean
glass. Don't smell anything. Yeah. Okay. So I
will pour you a portion. Yes, ma 'am. Okay. And
then... Have yourself a glass. Yeah. Yes, please.
Thai? No, no. Definitely not. Oh. Haram! Oh,
sorry. Okay. So, for wine, to taste wine, we
first look at the colour. Yeah, right. Yeah,
it's very pale, pale yellow. Ideally, it would
be over a white background. Eh, Kai, you got
to move into the other camera now, Kai. Yeah,
that one. Okay, let's go. Tell me all about this.
Pale. Pale. Ideally, we should look at it. on
a white background. Do you have a white piece
of paper? Oh my, okay. Ideally, but if you don't
have, it's okay. No, no, no. I don't think we
have any ready at this moment. Yeah, doesn't
matter. Sorry about that. Doesn't matter. Okay.
It should be clear. Yeah, because if you put
it against a white paper, you can see the intensity
of the shade of the wine. I got a white screen
here. But A4 size paper, that will be fine. Plain
paper. Okay, now Kat is rummaging through to
find some white paper. Okay. I have a white shirt,
but... That would be very rude, so it's better
not to get white paper. But you see, even here,
your wall... This is white, yeah? Yeah, almost
white. Because if you don't put it against something
white, you cannot see the intensity of the colour.
Okay, so the colour is supposed to be intense.
No, this is pale. Oh, so this particular grape
has to be pale. Because it's young. Ah, so young
grape for white wine is pale. The older the grape
for the white wine, it gets more darker. It gets
darker. Ah. It gets darker, you have a golden...
Golden hue. Okay, sorry, I don't think I can
succeed in finding this white paper. So that's
the color. The next thing, because it will indicate
the age of the wine. The lighter it is, the younger
the wine. So this is a 2024 vintage. Now we just
take a quick whiff. Do you smell anything bad?
What am I supposed to be looking out for when
it comes to bad? When you take a quick whiff.
If there's something wrong with the wine, you
will smell bad smells. It's just negative kind
of smell. Negative, you know, whereby you will
just find it very revolting. But nothing. So
there's nothing wrong with the wine. Why do we
do that? It's because sometimes when you take
a whiff, you smell something like rotten eggs
or a strike of a match. Oh, really? Oh, like
sulfur. Correct. Because if you smell that, You're
not sure whether the wine has gone bad or is
sulfur. Right. You will put it aside for 20 minutes.
Okay. After 20 minutes, you revisit the wine.
To aerate it, you mean? Yeah, you just leave
the wine because if the bad smells persist, that
means there's something wrong with the wine.
Okay. But if it is sulfur, it will be gone. Right.
Yeah, because it's a preservative. So do you
use sulfur as a preservative for white wine?
All wines. All wines. In the winemaking process,
almost every step of the way. Okay. But you don't
need to be concerned because the sulfur that
they use for preserved fruits is even greater
than wine. Okay. Yeah, so. So basically, asking
me to have a whiff of it is to get its bouquet.
Not yet. Oh, that's not bouquet? Not yet. Because
you just want to, Make sure the wine is not corked.
The wine is fine. So that's step one. Make sure
it's not corked. It's not bad. So now, we want
the bouquet. We're going to nose the bouquet.
So you're going to swirl this around. So this
is called nosing. Nosing. You can say smell,
but smell will not sound as professional, maybe.
Not sound atas. You nose the wine, you know.
Okay, so swirl, swirl, and then you nose the
wine. When you nose the wine, what do you look
out for? Okay, white fruits. Sorry, citrus fruits.
Citrus fruits. Yeah, citrus fruits such as lemon,
lime, grapefruit. Sharks are great. Definitely,
there's lemon. Grapefruit. Lemon for sure. Yeah.
Hang on now. So these are what we call primary
aromas. Grapefruit, grapefruit, grapefruit, grapefruit.
If it is not there, it's not there. There's some.
That's example. And any stone fruit like apricot,
peaches? I don't smell that. So it's not there.
Do you? What do you feel? Normally, if it comes
from a warmer climate, Right. Even though it's
from a cool country, but certain years, more
sunshine, or it's planted in an area whereby
they get more sunshine, then the fruit becomes
riper, you might get this stone fruit. Okay.
Or tropical fruits. So you can tell at which
season that this was harvested. No, not the season.
unless you're very familiar with which year,
but whether it's stone fruit or tropical fruits
would indicate the region, whether it's warmer
or cooler. But this is definitely not... If I
didn't see the label and doing a blind test,
there's no tropical fruit. I can tell that this
is definitely no, there's no tropical fruit.
Correct. Yeah. Correct. Correct. Because this
is from Austria. Yeah. So we can... Just describe
it as a lot of citrus and do you smell any oak?
That means any wood smell? No. Yeah, because
there's no oak. Trick question. Oh, no, no. That's
what we are looking for. Yeah, okay. So if you
don't smell any oak, that means it was not matured
in oak. It was not kept in any oak. Okay. But
this particular grape has a very distinct feature,
aroma, which is white pepper. You get that? White
pepper? A little bit. On your palate, perhaps?
Oh, that's another point of view. Hang on. This
is the typical characteristic of a Gruner Veltliner.
Typical. So we will... Yeah, there's a hint of
it in my mouth. So we're going to take one sip
and don't swallow it straight away. Make sure
it just goes round your mouth. Swirl it in the
mouth? No. Just make sure it covers every part
like the top here, the sides. Okay. You'll find
that the acidity really builds up. Yeah. It's
high in acidity. Yep. It's light -bodied. Yeah.
And after you swallow, you don't really feel
the alcohol burn down your throat. No, it doesn't,
yeah. Yeah, it's 12%. Light alcohol. Yeah. You
can tell it's young. Yes. But would you say that
this is so acidic that it makes your face cringe?
No. Yeah, it's quite pleasant. It is, yeah. Refreshing.
Yeah, quite. Yeah. Do you find that this wine
is sour? No. Would you use the word sour? No,
I wouldn't use the word sour. I would use...
I would say, I mean, it's citrusy. It can definitely
have... It's not even a hint of citrus. It's
a lot of citrus. But it's not your vinegar kind
of taste. It's the fruits. Yeah. It's the fruit
sour. I can't think of it now that I've... talking
after I just made that, I just swallowed, swore
around my mouth and I get that hint of grapefruit
somewhere. What about the white pepper? Yes,
it's the aftertaste, you know, the white pepper
thing. Yeah, it's that more towards the back
of my mouth that I feel the white pepper. It
only comes from this grape. Right. No other white
grape. Yeah, it's hitting me now. That's why
I chose this because it's pretty special and
from the monastery. Oh yeah, I'm getting it now.
Wow, this thing is like delayed reaction. Yeah,
I'm getting white pepper wholesale. A lot? Yeah,
inside my cheeks. Right here. And the back of
my tongue. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It comes in
much later. But definitely, it's holding in my
mouth. This is not a crazy expensive wine. It's
about 10 euros. But of course, once it gets to
Singapore, the price is different. It's different.
Anything that gets to Singapore is different.
I enjoy this very, very much because for our
climate here. It just goes great with fish. Yeah.
You can tell. Yeah. It goes great with... Yeah.
Even if it's steamed fish. You're not correct.
Steamed fish Thai style? You know where the sauce
is a little bit sour? No, even if it's a simple
steamed fish with ginger and you have this. There's
a white pepper uptaste with fish. Yeah. I don't
believe I just said all that. I sound so atas.
Okay. But you... Kind of enjoyed this. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. For someone who doesn't like wines.
Kind of, yeah. Yeah. Now that you're telling
me to go through that step, that process of getting,
nosing it and what's the bouquet? The bouquet
is fruity. Ah, so basically bouquet means, so
the ultimate. The smell of the wine. Right. Smell
of the wine. What's the bouquet? Fruity. Yeah,
okay lah. Citrus fruity. I would call this a
simple wine because it has no oak. It's very
straightforward. Refreshing. Something for you
to drink in the afternoon. Not just stop at one
bottle. You probably could do two bottles. Yeah.
And it's not a quaffing wine. Quaffing wine.
Quaffing. To quaff. Quaff. Meaning just, you
know. Oh. When you say quaffing, you know, I
think about quaffer. No. My hair. Chris, you
got coiffure. Yeah. Coiffing, coiffing is basically
slugging it. Because this wine has got some character.
It does, yeah. So it's not... I like it. Good,
I'm glad. I like this, I like this. A lot of
people do like it. It's a simple thing, it's
a simple wine as far as I can... There's no big
headaches, you know what I'm saying? You just
open it up, you just pour it down and after that
you have a good meal, you have this. But it has
got some character. It's not just simple. It
does, it does. When I say simple, I mean that
there's nothing confusing about, you know, like
what I would normally envision wine tasting to
be. But just imagine this for Mars. I always
like to look at the person's expression when
they... taste a wine. Because it's very difficult
to hide your feelings. Oh, really? Yeah. Whoever
it is, whoever it is. Did I hide? No. Okay. Because
if you don't like it, it shows immediately. Ah.
There are some people, they take a sip and they
go, you know, something is going to the negative
direction. I can tell you one thing. More often
than not, man, when I drink any wine, right,
especially the reds, I go, oh. I've never had
much of a good experience. Except once, though.
With a Chilean wine. And my crazy wife, I think
it was many years ago, she used to order boxes
of this wine every month. Because a friend, a
dear friend, who she just passed on, gave us
the recommendation for that. And I enjoyed that
one. Ask me the name now, I can't remember. It
was so long ago. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But I enjoyed
that. But other than that, it didn't do it for
me. You know what I mean? It depends because
red wine also, if it comes from cooler climate,
you might find it a bit too tannic, not so approachable.
If it comes from the old world, like Chile, sorry.
Chile is from the new world. New world, yeah.
Yeah, slightly warmer. Yeah, the more tropical,
humid countries. Yeah. South American products,
perhaps. More fruit forward because a lot of
people who are new to wine. Californian, maybe.
Yeah, they like all this new world wines because
they find it very approachable. Yeah, it's like
the Beaujolais. But Beaujolais is French. It's
so strange, but the Beaujolais is so damn fruity
and it's... not offensive somehow i find it's
also the nature of the greek yeah okay and then
it's meant to be drunk within 12 months young
okay and they are not allowed to sell it after
12 months you're correct yes Announce that over
and over again. After 12 months, that's it. We're
all going to throw it out, the whole damn thing
away. Correct. Yeah, I remember that. The third
November of, no, the third week of November,
the release. That's what they said. And they
wanted all the bottles to be sold, which I did.
Anything that, actually, I'm not bragging, but
shows for any product, you know, that came into
my hands and they get me to host an event, play
games, ding dong here and there, sing songs and
stuff. And I always have everything 100 % either
sold off or auctioned or even if it's to raise
funds for charity or benefit. Oh, believe you
me, I get it done. Fabulous. Yeah. So, I always
sell out the Beaujolais Nouveau. You know, yeah.
No, no question. Yeah. You must have had a great
time. Oh, well, it was memorable. It was memorable.
I mean, I had quite a number of bottles to bring
home. Thank you very much, Chris. I love you.
I love you, man. You did a great job. Thank you
very much again. Four or five bottles I bring
home. But at that time, I was still single. You
know? What do you remember about the wine? The
nose? The nose? Bubble gum, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Bing bubblegum. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Banana
bubblegum. That's it, that's it. Right? Yeah,
that's it. As a matter of fact, that description
was quite common. Yeah. Even the client back
then said that, you know, the nose is bubblegum.
The bouquet is bubblegummy. And when you taste
it, you can tell it's like probably just only
came off the press or something. You know, and
it's really, really young and damn fruity. Yeah,
and I kind of enjoyed that because it wasn't
offensive. It was something that anyone's palate
could accept. Anyone, for that matter. Correct.
It's open to the masses. Even if you don't enjoy
it, you will enjoy it, you know? That kind of
reception. So you see, grapes have got their
distinct characteristics. Right. Yeah, like this
one, if they gave it to you as a blind tasting,
you will nail it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You will
nail it. You will, yeah. You can tell it's Beaujolais
Nouveau. Okay, shall we try the red? Let's talk
about the red. If we want to do it really properly,
we should just rinse the glass. But I don't think
we need to. I will still be able to tell some
difference, right? In the interest of time, we
shall not be rinsing the wine glasses. So don't
anybody cut them. Chris, just roll a bit of good.
Nonsense. we have decided not to rinse the glass
which is fine um this wine opener is uh have
you seen this before that bit no okay yeah okay
uh normally to cut the foil you will have a small
short serrated knife attached right but this
one doesn't have because here we do this even
more fancy that one huh What's that down here?
Easier. Okay, man. Yeah. Wow. Damn, I struggle
with that shit all the time. Okay. Yeah, it's
easier. Yeah, okay. You can move the mic. No
worries. Yeah. And then we will... Okay, this
is called the worm. Corkscrew. Yeah, this thing
here is called the worm. Okay. This part. It's
called the worm, huh? Literally called the worm.
Find the center, push it in, twist the filler
around. Yeah. So I just want to secure it. Yeah.
Now... Okay... So this is... Wow, done just like
a true expert, man. Okay, okay. Now, I know what
you're gonna do. I know what you're gonna do.
You're gonna smell a cock. No! Huh? No, no, no.
What? No cock smelling. What? No, we don't...
Hey, somehow this is so very right. Okay, people,
no cork smelling. I kicked your heads out of
the gutter once again. No. Why do people do that?
I don't know. But okay, you know why? Because
even when I go order a bottle of wine, you know,
I don't, which I don't. The last time I did was
like before I got married and then dating some
girl somewhere and you take her to a fancy place
and then you just... Just to show off, you order
whatever, right? They'll be like, are you okay
with this, sir? You uncock it, they put the cork
there on the table right in front of you. Then
I think their expectation is for you to take
that cork and smell it. No? Eh. Why is it bloody,
atas restaurants all telling you to do that?
I don't know, I think they want to smell it to
see if there's cork taint or what, but it's no
indication until you actually nose the wine.
So basically it's rubbish. Smelling the cork
from the bottle. It's rubbish? I don't do it.
I've never done it and we were not taught to
do it. Really? Yeah. Oh, wowee. No. Okay, okay.
Alright. So... Okay. Can you move the mic back
a little bit so that we can pick you up some
more? Thank you so much. Okay. Okay. And then
we don't... Okay, great. So we don't have to
really smell that thing. Okay. Yeah. Gosh. So
this is... It doesn't look like a synthetic cork
to me. It's not. Because synthetic cork is really
plastic. Excuse me. Burping the wine, sorry.
See, habit. You can't help it, right? Yeah, it's
not synthetic. Yeah. Definitely not. Okay, this
wine I have selected for the tasting is from
South Africa. It's by Anthony Rupert. Anthony
Rupert, okay. Yeah, he makes really nice wines.
Optima, Optima. Can I just show it to the camera?
Okay, here we go. There you go. Optima, Anthony
Rupert. Here we go. All right. Okay. This wine
is a blend of grapes. Yeah. The grape selected
for this blend is similar to Bordeaux. Okay.
Bordeaux, not Bordeaux. Bordeaux. Cabernet Sauvignon,
Merlot, Cabernet Franc and Petit Viado. So these
are the four grapes that are generally used as
a blend for Bordeaux wine. So this is blended
wine? Blended. Right, okay. So they make it very
close to a Bordeaux. Okay, hang on. So you have
Cabernet Sauvignon. You have, what again? Merlot.
Merlot. Cabernet Franc. The way you say... We
say Merlot, you say Merlot. So is that the right
way of saying it? I don't remember. Because you
learn French. Yeah. So it is Merlot, not Merlot.
But if we say Merlot, not many people will understand
unless you say Merlot or some... But which is
the proper way? Merlot, is it? I like to learn.
Is it? Mielo. Okay, so let's say it. Mielo is
the proper way. So we'll say it's Mielo. You
don't pronounce the T and then the E -R. Mielo.
Mielo. Yeah. All right. So, okay. Cabernet Sauvignon,
Mielo and? Cabernet Franc. Cabernet Franc. That's
new to me. Yeah. F -R -A -N -C. Yeah. And then
Petit Viado. Petit Viado. Yeah. V -E -R -D -O
-T. Okay, small weirdo. Petit weirdo, yeah. The
small weirdo. Petit weirdo. Okay. But if you
go to the UK, they will still call it a merlot.
You know, they won't say merlot. Is it? Yeah.
Because the Brits are not French. Yeah. Okay.
The Brits will pretend to speak French, but they
can't. Okay. For example, the champagne. In the
UK, they call it Bollinger. Yeah, Bollinger.
Yeah, the 007 Champagne. Yeah, I love it. Yeah,
of course, I'm a big James Bond fan. But in France,
it's Bollinger. It's what? Boulanger. Boulanger.
So, you don't have to worry too much about the
mellow, you know. It's just that it just came
out like this. No lah, I like to be proper. But
I've been calling it Bollinger for a long time.
Boulanger. Boulanger, okay. But if you say Boulanger
in English -speaking countries, they won't understand
you. Of course they won't, yeah. Right? Boulanger.
Boulanger. Boulanger. Boulanger, okay. I shall
remember that. Okay, so I will pour you a little.
Thank you, ma 'am. You're most welcome, Grace.
Okay. So there's no particular way of pouring
red wine. Well, I like... Oh, hang on a second
before it drips on my table. Ta -da! Oh. I like
what I learned from SQ. When you pour, you must
show the label to the person you're pouring to.
Right. And then because we are up in the air
to steady our grip, we were told to hold it this
way. and then the index finger to control. Right.
And when we pour, you make sure that we do a
little twist so that it doesn't drip, drip, drip,
drip, drip everywhere. Yeah, you twist, yes.
That one we know. But if you're not in the air,
if you're on the ground, aren't you supposed
to be having your thumb into the hollow or the
base of the bottle? I suppose it depends on what
you're... Like this, you know, when you pour,
you pour like that. It's very difficult because,
especially for me, I don't have much strength
in my hand. The possibility of me toppling the
entire bottle is very, very high. Right. So I'm
actually at risk if I pour it that way. Sure,
I understand. Yeah. But there is no... a steadfast
rule how to hold the bottle. Right. Even the
guys in the restaurant, they would have the white
cloth around the neck of the bottle. Then they
hold on to that and like this, they'll pour.
Then they'll wipe so that the wine that drips
down will be collected by the white towel. Yeah.
But I suppose all these would depend on... The
institution, the restaurant, the hotel that you
work for and what the guidelines are. Right.
Service guidelines that you need to follow. Okay.
So mostly what I'm doing is what I have learned
from SQ. Okay. No worries. No worries. Just a
topic for conversation. Yeah. All right. So...
Pour away, pour away. Yeah. Okay. Is it still
spilling? Nope. Okay, great. Now we do the same
thing since... Are we going to use your wall
again? Yeah, we can use the wall. Because I have
too much important printed matter on my other
white paper that's available in the studio. So
back to the colour, you can see, of course, it
is... How intense it is. You hold it at an angle,
always at 45 degrees. Why we do this? Because
we want to see... the base here yeah compared
to the rim okay yeah how deep the color is correct
yeah this is not very deep yeah because because
ah that's a very good observation because the
wine has a bit of age so if if you pour a wine
that is very very young it can be very dense
and then darker yeah the pigment will go Right
up to here. Right. It doesn't fade. So it's different
from white wine. White wine just now we discussed
was that if it's older, it's a lot more golden
hue. Yes. Darker. Yes. But in terms of red, it
works the opposite. Correct. Correct. So for
red. So the older it is, the lighter the color.
Yes. Correct. That is so interesting. I would
have thought that the older the red, the deeper
the color. Right. So now we're supposed to let
this rest. Oh, no. No? We do the same thing.
Okay, we... You take a whiff. Take a whiff. And
any revolting smell? No, nothing. So the wine
is in good condition. That's the only reason
we do that. But the first whiff, you don't need
to swirl it. But it's so much nicer after you
swirl it. Oh, but... The first thing we do is
just to make sure that the wine is in good condition.
Oh, that one. The first one was... No, no, no.
It was okay. Ah, okay. So we cleared that. That
means we say the wine is in good condition. So
now we swell it to release more of the aromas.
A lot of red fruit. Don't know. Black fruit.
Blackcurrant. Blackberry. Cherries. Those are
the fruits. Mostly. Cherry, yeah. Mostly red.
Blackcurrant. Blackberry. The blackcurrant is
quite. Blackcurrant, yeah. Blackcurrant is quite
pronounced. There's a predominant fragrance.
Bouquet. That comes from the Cabernet Sauvignon.
This wine is. I somehow get the cherry. The cherry
hits me more. The notes of the cherry hit me
more than the notes of the blackcurrant. So this
wine, let me check again. Okay, this wine is
five years old. Ah, 2020. Yeah, that means it
has evolved. Yeah. You would be able to... How
would you say that it's evolved? Because it's
five years old. Okay, the age, the vintage is
an indication. Right. But when you nose it, you
will get not just the fresh fruits nose, you
will get something else. Do you get... Leather.
Wow, you're really going outside of organic stuff
now, man. Leather? Actually, right now I'm smelling
black pepper. Because the wine has been poured
for 2 -3 minutes, it has contact with air. Black
pepper. Now, you get a black pepper. So this
has been aged in oak. Do you smell any oak? Chard
wood? Smoke? Cigar box? Oh, smoke, yeah. Smoke,
yeah. Coffee? Chard, yeah. Chard something. Chard
wood. Chocolate? No, definitely not. God, I smell
that, I get nosebleed. And if it is being aged
even longer, you will develop even more... Secondary
and... That would be tertiary, you will get mushroom.
Huh? Yeah, those mushroom, earth. Yeah. Why,
why, why would these... Why would these bouquets
or noses come into play? I mean... It doesn't
mean that the grape came from a ground that also
used to harvest mushroom or leather or have leather
somewhere involved. It's just the evolution of
the wine. So basically, it's just subject to
what you really smell, which is relative, isn't
it? I mean, it's relative to anyone, individual.
But you cannot go too far off, you know. This
is the guideline, what we are looking for and
you should be able to get this. But it's imagination,
isn't it? No, no, no. No? Okay, maybe I'm better
at white than I am at red. My aversion is actually
to red, you know. Well, what I mentioned, the
mushrooms and the earth. Yeah. This wine perhaps
need another few years or maybe a few hours because
It's just open. And this wine is... I won't say
very complex, but it has some complexity. Would
you like to taste it now? Yeah, I do. How about
mint? Did you get mint? No. From the nose? Zero.
Funny. Did the wine get to this part here, the
gums? Yeah, yeah. The tannins are very soft.
I can't tell whether it's soft or not. I can
tell the tannins. Is it very drying? Yeah, yeah,
yeah. But it's not that drying? Not that drying,
no. It has that effect. Because it's not just
entirely Cabernet. I think it's because there's
more, probably the percentage of Cabernet in
this blend is lesser than... The other grapes.
30, 30, 30, 10. So which one is 10? Petit Viado.
Okay. The rest are all 30, 30. Okay. For some
reason, I think the Cabernet is a little bit
more watered down because of the other blends.
The Merlot, I can taste. I can taste more of
the Merlot. As a matter of fact, right now, I'm
getting the smokiness in my mouth. Yeah, pepper.
Smoky. Pepper? A bit of mint? No, a bit of chocolate.
Do you find that this wine is not, I would say
it's medium bodied. It's not exactly very full
bodied. It's not? Yeah, it's more to the full
bodied, but it's definitely not light. It's got
that good length. Length? What do you mean by
length? You can still... taste the fruit the
flavours in your mouth is still lingering oh
that's called length yeah okay aftertaste aftertaste
if it yeah you can say aftertaste but if it disappears
straight after immediately then we call it you
know the wine doesn't have a length it's a very
short finish okay it's a very short wine but
this is this is not this is not yeah yeah yeah
this is not this is not definitely it's still
lingering yeah do you think your wife would love
this she would yeah do you like this You don't
hate it? I don't hate it. I don't hate it, but
I prefer the white. I prefer the white because
it's happy. It's something that I can imagine
sitting down on a lazy day on a Parisian sidewalk,
sitting down in front, you know, in Saint -Michel,
outside the bakery or cafe, and just sipping
my wine and having my pastry and watching the
world go by and a couple of cigarettes with it.
You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Or cigar. Yeah.
This one, I don't mind it. As a matter of fact,
I like the aftertaste. Yeah. That is what stays
with you. I think this goes so well with, it's
going to sound so cliche. It goes so well with
your beef. It goes well with, oh, say, something
barbecued. Ayam buah keluar. Ayam buah keluar.
Yeah, I can agree. Yes, I think it would be very,
very nice because even though it's ayam, white
meat, so we take into consideration the sauce,
the method of cooking is a rich dish. But you
don't want something too light like Beaujolais
Nouveau. It will be drowned by the dish. You're
right. I can agree. And you don't want something
too heavy either. With my mother's ayam baklava.
I think it would be lovely. Yeah. Oh yeah, this
would go well. You're very right. Does your mother
like wine? No, my mom can't drink. She's allergic
to wine. She's allergic to alcohol. Okay, then
maybe your wife can, or you can taste it. Maybe
you may want to try this with your mother's ayam
buah keluar. I wish my mom could cook again.
No worries. I think it's a good pair. What do
you think? Definitely. 100%. I don't think you
mentioned iron ball kalua. Yeah, yeah. I completely
agree with you. 100%. This is just to illustrate
not white meat with white wine. Yeah. It could
be anything. Because if things are cooked with
different spices and different ingredients and
seasonings and stuff. So it's not, that's quite
a broad and quite mythical. These are myths.
No, I'm convinced. Yes, I am. There are Some
whereby it can only go one way for pure enjoyment.
But there are some people who would like to just,
yeah, go against it. This is a dinner wine. Yeah.
This is like a windy table. It is? It is? No?
No, it's like something you would have for dinner
and dinner only, not even for lunch. I wouldn't
want to have this for lunch. I would have it
for dinner. You see, Vin the Table, right? Yeah.
Actually, that's a classification for wine. So,
Vin the Table means... Table wine. Yeah. That
means... Low class one, huh? No, no. It means
the... It means the... Entry level. So, if you
order from... Yeah, entry level. Low class one.
Basically, it's the house pour. For most places,
a Vin the Table is a house pour. That is like
the house pour wine that they will charge, you
know, that everyone would have... be able to
afford to pay. Right? And it's not going to be
your atas classy ones. But this will not be sold
as table wine. Because it's not a table wine.
There's going to be a lot of wine connoisseurs
out there that's going to go, how dare you, Chris?
Do not insult that wine. Now, this one, you didn't
tell me about the legs. Okay, I'm sorry to disappoint
you, but we don't really talk about legs. Seriously?
Not really. Okay. What were you told about lakes?
That you, after swirling, do this, and then you
take a look at the... The side. The remnants
of the side that's running down the glass. And
the slower it runs down, the thicker, the more
sugar there is. And the faster it streams down
the side of the glass, the less sugar there is.
Less sugar, more sugar. That's about the size
of it. About just telling you about how much
sugar there is inside the wine. Okay, there's
another school of thought would be, you know,
indicate how much alcohol. Okay. Yeah, because,
you know, it's the ethanol and also related to
sugar. But the legs do not really indicate much.
So people normally don't bother about the legs.
Yeah, because the legs don't really indicate
quality. It just talks about... Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Thank you. Once again, at this stage of my life,
I have been re -schooled. No, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, no. It's great. Because at least
now I learned something new. You know, I learned
another perspective, which is fantastic. I don't
get me the wrong way. I enjoy it. I will enjoy
learning new things as I go along. And then maybe
I may have been misinformed or. Maybe there was
a stupid thing the guy tried to make himself
look good and that I gullible enough to believe
it. I was very young, you know. When you're learning
courage, I get in life, especially when I was
younger, right? And you hold on to certain beliefs.
So sometimes some myths need to be broken. I
mean, I didn't even know it could have been a
myth. I wouldn't have known any better. So it's
great. People like you telling me stuff, it's
great. I learned. Well, some were also my opinion,
which is, you know. Sure. Whether or not I take
your opinion or don't take your opinion is up
to the individual, right? Yeah. So I value everyone's
opinion. I value yours. I value all my guests.
They come here and tell me their stories and
tell me what they think. I mean, you went through
to level four, you know, I mean, hell, if I can't
take your opinion, I don't know whose I can take
it from. But, but, but again, you know, it's,
it's, everything's a learning curve and, and
this is, this is your opinion and I can value
that. Some of these things like, you know, like
being a wine sommelier and how you observe certain
things is, there's also this part where it's,
it's, it's really up to the individual to decide
whether or not that is, it is what it is, you
know? Yeah, so it's cool. It's cool. It's cool.
It's quite cool. No worries. And I kind of enjoyed
this little tasting thing. I've been burping
wine from just now. But it's been great. I love
the white. But the red still, not really, yeah?
You know, I would agree with you if I know what's
going to be served in front of me on my plate.
Then yeah, perhaps. If I know that I'm going
to have a gastronomical meal of something like,
wow, that's what goes with that, then I will
go for it. Then you get a full complete picture
in your palate. You know what I'm saying? But
if it's anything at all, it seems to me that
I'm leaning more towards the white. Yeah. So
this is not, this grape is different from a Chablis
or Chardonnay, right? Yes, correct. Ah, okay.
Because it's a different grape. Right. Chablis
is also made from chardonnay. Ah. Okay. Sorry
for another time. Lesson for another time. Because
right now, you know why? We've been going on
for almost two and a half hours. No kidding.
No kidding. And if this goes on anymore, it's
going to be a three -parter, man. But thank you
so much, Karen. It's been so lovely talking to
you. Thank you for really sharing your expertise
on wine. Thank you also for bringing up the water
bit, you know, as a little revision of what Sam
spoke about on the show last season. And really,
I wish you the very best. I hope whatever your
passion is for water, I know that I can see that
you're more into the water thing, really comes
to its fruition in whatever goals you have in
mind. Okay. And thank you once again. Really,
it's been a real pleasure. Thank you for the
vinos. Thank you for having me, Chris. Not at
all. It's a privilege. No. It's our pleasure
having anyone like you on the show. All of my
guests and you especially. Thank you so very
much, really, Karen. And okay, everybody. There
we go. Wine. Wine and more wine. Am I turning
red, Kai? I think so. Sorry. I wish you could
share this with me, but you can't. Okay. Okay,
everybody. Just a couple of things before I say
goodbye for this episode. Please do us a favor,
will you? Just a couple of things. It's so important
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And I'll see you again next week. Same channel,
same time. Bye -bye. The Chris Hansen Conversation.
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