WEBVTT

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Our guest today is a man who quite literally

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built his career from the ground up. He is an

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architect of modern Singaporean nightlife, a

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master of reinvention, and a leader who embodies

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the spirit of dedication. His journey began not

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in a boardroom, but at the very bottom in 1991,

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cutting lemons as a bar bat at a discotheque

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called Fire. From those humble beginnings, he

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rose through the ranks with a philosophy of sheer

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hard work, patience and doing the right things

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without cutting corners. His long and arduous

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path took him from Singapore to the vibrant nightlife

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scenes of Melbourne and Shanghai, where he earned

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a reputation for turning struggling businesses

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into success stories. But his most profound act

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of stewardship came at the helm of an iconic

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Singaporean institution, Harry's. For eight years

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as a former CEO, He took this classic brand and

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transformed it, expanding its footprint across

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Asia and solidifying its identity as a beloved

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true blue Singaporean neighbourhood bar. Under

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his leadership, Harry's won numerous prestigious

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awards, cementing his position as a market leader

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and a cultural touchstone. And in the spirit

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of our show, he never lost sight of music. He

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was a guardian of Harry's deep -rooted jazz heritage.

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actively supporting local musicians through virtual

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concerts during the pandemic and formed partnerships

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that gave a stage to a new generation of artists.

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He is a veteran of the industry, a visionary

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who revitalized a legacy brand and a dedicated

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champion for the entire nightlife community.

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What would be your top three moves to get more

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customers to the door, solve the transport problem,

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and deal with high operating costs. What would

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you do? First, I need the crowd. I need to identify

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where this crowd is coming from and what are

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they really after, right? Because if you're just

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there to eat and drink, you can go anywhere.

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If you're there for the DJ, fine. But if the

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DJ is not there every day, then what? There's

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something that goes deeper than that. What is

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it? Before we begin the show, here is an important

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announcement. For 100 years, Shure has set the

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and use the promo code AFCHENSON to get limited

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Shure merchandise with your purchases. Now, let's

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start the show. Hi everyone, you've heard my

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introduction. Welcome back to the Chris Hansen

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Conversation. I have with me the man for the

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hour, my guest, Nason Xavier Thyagarajan. Welcome

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to the studio, Nason. Thank you very much, Chris.

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Nice to be here. Hey, thanks for being here,

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man. And it's my tribute to you in this tribute

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show. Thank you so very much for supporting nightlife

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in Singapore and especially music. Most welcome.

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What would we do without music? Well, tell that

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to a whole lot of people here in Singapore, man.

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Nobody seems to give a shit. What do you think?

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I think we've got a lot of strong followers.

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Not enough of them. And a lot of people that

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forget what the power of music is all about.

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I think even something as simple as a retail

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shop or when you walk around and there are a

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lot of places I go around and I say, you know

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what's missing? Music in the background. And

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having it live in entertainment spots or in live

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shows, even in theatre or in any form, it brings

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out a lot. You see the passion of the artist,

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even if it's a cover song. And music connects

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you. You hear a song, you think of something

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in the past. And then it connects you. So it's

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actually very powerful. The saying goes, the

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one thing that never dies is music. Right. What

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do you think? Do you really think? You think

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people, you said just now, interestingly, you

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said people may have forgotten. Why do you think

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that has happened here? I'm really not sure.

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When I look at the younger generation, my kids

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as well, they listen to music. They do. But I

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guess it's also very convenient. to access music.

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And with TikTok and Spotify and everything else,

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sometimes they're hearing things in snippets,

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nice and quick. You know, back in the day, and

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I'm sure you'll appreciate it, right? You got

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to get your record out or your CD out. You know,

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you got to press play, finishes, you got to flip

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the disc around. Then you take coconut water,

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you clean the fella properly. Correct. So I think

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the appreciation and the journey. before you

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listen to music. I think that's missing. And

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I don't know, personally, maybe that's one of

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the things I think where the appreciations lacked

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a little. Yeah, very interesting because it's

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as if making things so convenient to digital,

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convenience actually could have killed it. I

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hope it's not killed yet. But yeah, that's my

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point. Besides giving people ADHD. That's my

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view. The convenience brings the fun of the journey

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in music and a lot of things sometimes. Yeah,

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yeah, yeah. Good point, man. You're the first

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guy to actually talk about it this way. Yeah,

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it's an interesting point of view. No wonder

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you're called the modern architect for Singapore's

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nightlife, man. I don't think I'll call myself

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that. I've definitely dedicated a lot of my time,

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actually my entire career to now, to nightlife

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in different countries as well, but especially

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in the last... maybe say 10 years very strongly

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in Singapore with my affiliation with the Singapore

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Nightlife Association. I still stay there as

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the advisor till year end this year and I'm only

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a phone call away and the guys that are running

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it today, capable people and the committee. they

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know that I'm always just a phone call away.

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So I'll always stay vested. Well, that's good

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to know, man. That's good to know that you're

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still staying vested. Yes. Let's talk about you.

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Let's talk about... We started the show anyway,

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so we need to talk about you. Okay. Let's talk

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about your journey. You started as a bartender

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in 1991. Actually, I lied. It was a barbeque.

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You know what's a barbeque? So the barbeque is

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the guy that can't pour, that is not allowed

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to pour the alcohol. So what you do is you wash

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the glasses, you clear the trash. Holy shit.

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You cut the lemons. Yes, yes. You set the bar

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up, you clean the bar up. So you don't have barbeques

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these days. It's more an American sort of term

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for bartenders back then. That's the entry level.

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But I didn't last very long. I moved up to bartender

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quite quickly. Yeah, so you're right. Started

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Fire Disco 1991. Fire Disco. Yeah, that's it,

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man. It was in the introduction, by the way.

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When I saw fire, I got, whoa, excited. So Dean

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Shahul was your boss? He was, but he didn't know

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me back then because he was too high up the ranks.

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And as I just told you, right, I was the bar

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back. But yeah, he was. The bar back to being

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who you became. Wowee. Not too bad. I'm quite

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happy with it. You said in some interview that

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you weren't academically inclined. Where were

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you from and which school? Primary school? Well,

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let's talk about both, primary and secondary.

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Okay, primary school, I was in a school called

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Jalan Kayu Primary School. Oh, wow. It doesn't

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exist anymore because the TV cuts across it to

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connect the north to the east, right? If I have

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to quote the year, if I'm not mistaken, it was

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1989, they demolished the school, I think. Okay.

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I finished there in 86. Okay. 88, 89, they demolished

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it. That's just, do you know where the Selita

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Air Base or the old Selita Camp is? Yeah, yeah,

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yeah. Yeah, so we were living inside there, renting

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then. As a kid, you know, I came here from Malaysia

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at four years old in 1978. Okay. And ironically

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enough, my dad's Malaysian, mom's Singaporean.

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And they can't get a HTV or any assistance because

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he was Malaysian. Right. So that was the cheapest

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private estate you could rent back then in 78.

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Inside Seletor Air Base, right? So from there,

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my primary school was Jalakai Primary School.

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How about secondary school? We moved to Ishun

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and then I went to Ahmad Ibrahim Secondary. Wow.

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Yeah. What year was that, man? I started there

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1987. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You know someone from

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there? My wife was from there. Oh, okay. Okay.

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Okay. What year was she? Can you recall? She's

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kind of, I think she's a little younger than

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you. It's just you left school and you went into

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Ahmad again, what year? 87, right? I went in

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87. In secondary one. Secondary one. So you're

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kind of, you're younger than me. Yeah. A little

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older than my wife. So actually, actually, if

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I went in in 87, and here comes the academically

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inclined, right? I stayed in secondary school

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for six years. Oh, wow. I repeated my sec three

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once. Because the school needed you so badly,

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man. The school doesn't know I exist today. Yeah,

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yeah. So anyone younger within three, three,

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four years would still, would maybe have heard

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of you. Well, I could have asked my wife. Okay,

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so you went into that. And what happened? You

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spent six years, you said, not academically inclined.

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And somewhere I read that you dropped out. Well,

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actually, I finished secondary school after my

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second attempt at O -levels, right? Then I went

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back to fire. I was working because I was working

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part -time as well, right? So when you were in

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school, you were working in fire? The second

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O -levels. Yes, because after the first O -Levels,

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during school break, that's the bar back part.

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And then after that, I said I had to repeat it.

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So back then again, and then I was just doing

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part -time for a while. Then after O -Levels,

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didn't know what to do. Had to wait for your

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results, right? Prelims weren't so good. So the

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first three months, so I went back to, went to

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FIRE full -time. Then I got a letter that I was

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accepted to Selita Institute, another school

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that doesn't exist today. Okay. It's near Upper

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Thompson Road, towards the tail end when you're

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reaching Mandai, around there. That was A -levels

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for three years, but I stayed there for a year.

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I passed that year, but in year two, I decided

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to quit school. Not a good choice back then,

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but yeah, so that's what happened. When you quit

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school, the decision for you to quit school,

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was because... This is live, huh? Yeah, it is

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live. No, it's not live. It's recorded, but...

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Okay, for anyone... We're not going to edit.

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For anyone in school, don't follow in my footsteps.

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I'm telling you, this is really funny. Now, was

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it funny back then because my mother wasn't happy

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and definitely my older sister wasn't happy?

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Pretty much, I got some disciplinary action in

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a school football game and the sports council

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banned me from playing. in the school games.

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And I couldn't represent my school anymore. And

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I said, well, if I can't play soccer, I don't

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want to study. That's the reason. That's the

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truth. Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thanks for sharing

00:12:05.350 --> 00:12:07.110
that. No problem. That's fun to know. Actually,

00:12:07.110 --> 00:12:09.470
this is the first time I'm sharing it. Oh, thanks,

00:12:09.549 --> 00:12:12.769
man. Up to that length. The story usually cuts

00:12:12.769 --> 00:12:15.909
somewhere earlier, but yeah. Okay, that's cool.

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You're human. You're human. I mean, okay, you

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were that guy. You were that guy that got into

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a fight, probably. He said, fight. I can more

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or less surmise that it was a fight. It was not

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a good tackle in the game, so that's... Fight,

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right? Okay, during a football game, and then

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you got barred by the Football Association, and

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you said, screw this. If I can't play football,

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fuck it. I'm leaving school. And you got out.

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And then you decided to go to work. Yes. And

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you went back to fire. No. Okay, what did you

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do? Okay. Then I didn't go back to fire. Fire

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was tough back then in the 90s, you know. I think

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it was the only club that could have like 3 ,000

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people. Right, right, right. Pretty much packed

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one. every day. Oh yeah, man. I think Energy

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was playing six days a week. Oh yeah, man. Love

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Hunters was covering Sunday or Monday. So I thought,

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I'm sure I can make, and they weren't paying

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me that great as well. So I thought, I'm sure

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I can make a little bit more money and not work

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too hard. I ended up at Studio Bakers. Studio

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Bakers, yeah. Pacific Plaza. Oh yeah, Pacific

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Plaza. It's dead now anyway. Yeah, I'm not sure

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if it's a... Is it a club now? No, there's no

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freaking club, man. It looks like a boutique

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or something. Yeah, I'm not sure what's up there.

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Yeah, that was early 1994. It was so cool, wasn't

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it? You stand along the corner of Orchard Road

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where Hyatt is, the Marriott, and then you look

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across Shore Centre, behind Shore Centre, and

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you look up there, you see Studebaker. What's

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the... Freaking hot, man. Yeah, coolest club.

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Yeah, like you said, across the other side at

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Lucky Plaza, you look across Neon City, you look

00:13:54.690 --> 00:13:58.889
upstairs and you see Sparks. Yes. Oh, man. Singapore's

00:13:58.889 --> 00:14:02.610
rocking. Yeah. But even clubs that you could

00:14:02.610 --> 00:14:05.690
not see, right? You talked about Marriott earlier,

00:14:05.850 --> 00:14:07.970
right? So Fabrice. Fabrice's, yeah, downstairs.

00:14:08.409 --> 00:14:11.710
Then it became Bar None. Yes, yes. I was in the

00:14:11.710 --> 00:14:14.049
damn queue every freaking Friday night, man.

00:14:14.230 --> 00:14:16.529
For Fabrice or for Bar None? Bar None. Oh, okay.

00:14:17.450 --> 00:14:20.009
Yeah, because even Fabrice back then, it was,

00:14:20.029 --> 00:14:23.789
you can say higher. Yeah, world music. Not so

00:14:23.789 --> 00:14:27.220
affordable. And the late Fabrice had this. There's

00:14:27.220 --> 00:14:30.299
this jaguar, right, or leopard painted on his

00:14:30.299 --> 00:14:32.460
car. I didn't get to see his car because by the

00:14:32.460 --> 00:14:33.840
time I finished work, it would be like four years.

00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:39.139
I only went to Fabrice's for the girls. What

00:14:39.139 --> 00:14:44.600
else is there besides music? No, no, no. The

00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:46.620
world music thing didn't really do it for me.

00:14:46.700 --> 00:14:51.649
It was the girls, man. Nothing to hide. We were

00:14:51.649 --> 00:14:55.370
all young. Okay, so you went to Studebaker's.

00:14:55.370 --> 00:14:57.110
What were you doing there? I was a bartender

00:14:57.110 --> 00:15:02.190
there. And it was one of the hardest jobs to

00:15:02.190 --> 00:15:04.450
get as a bartender. In Studebaker's, right? Yeah,

00:15:04.529 --> 00:15:07.210
they were very strict with the whole process.

00:15:08.389 --> 00:15:11.169
I don't know, they took about almost a month

00:15:11.169 --> 00:15:13.509
or two. This is a bartender. These days, you

00:15:13.509 --> 00:15:16.789
go for a job for a bartender, they hire you in

00:15:16.789 --> 00:15:22.419
one hour. And then I got it back then, 1994.

00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:27.000
Yeah, I think my salary was about maybe 20 %

00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:29.799
more than the average bartender. So I was earning

00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:33.799
$1 ,000 a month. Average bartender would be around

00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:37.480
$900 to $1 ,000 around there. So $200 back then.

00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:40.720
I said, okay, sure. And I stayed there all the

00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:44.779
way till November because I had to join the army.

00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:49.019
NS came in in December. So it didn't, Didn't

00:15:49.019 --> 00:15:51.539
go a full year, but pretty much, yeah, 94 was

00:15:51.539 --> 00:15:54.059
there. Okay, so NS came in, you went in, served

00:15:54.059 --> 00:15:56.659
your time, two years, two and a half years? Two

00:15:56.659 --> 00:15:58.759
and a half. Two and a half, like me. Yeah. We

00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:00.519
all get out of there, 36 months ago, one more

00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:03.519
stripe, right? Yes. I didn't want the stripe,

00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:05.279
you know. I also didn't want the damn stripe,

00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:08.919
you know. My CEO said, no choice, this is all

00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:12.600
computer generated, you have to go. Yeah. Then,

00:16:12.620 --> 00:16:14.259
okay, you served two and a half, you came out,

00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:19.600
what happened next? Before I came out, by the

00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:23.980
way, my NS time was, I hated it for the first

00:16:23.980 --> 00:16:26.360
three months. Yeah, who doesn't? Then I loved

00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:28.179
it all the way. Yeah, me too. Right after I finished

00:16:28.179 --> 00:16:29.779
reservist. Correct, same thing. You know, so

00:16:29.779 --> 00:16:33.580
I'm very patriotic in that way. And even when

00:16:33.580 --> 00:16:35.600
doing reservist, some of the soldiers would be

00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:37.659
like, because I was overseas and we'll get there.

00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:40.600
So I didn't get my same unit all the time. And

00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:42.259
they're always younger than me and they always

00:16:42.259 --> 00:16:45.080
thought I was a regular. this is how you should

00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:46.960
wear the uniform and this is how you should meet

00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:50.159
the army. But I really thoroughly enjoyed my

00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:56.500
NS time. Likewise. I left early 1997. Same thing

00:16:56.500 --> 00:16:58.740
again. What do I do? You know, I could stand

00:16:58.740 --> 00:17:01.679
in a mall, sell vacuum cleaners or electronics

00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:06.400
or do something in sales. I can talk. So, then

00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:09.559
a friend of mine called and said, listen, we

00:17:09.559 --> 00:17:12.000
need someone, you know, bar supervisor level.

00:17:13.679 --> 00:17:16.000
to work at this place. I'm not sure. We talked

00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:18.259
about Sloughbakers earlier. So Nick, right next

00:17:18.259 --> 00:17:22.700
to it, this place called Mambo Kings. Okay. It's

00:17:22.700 --> 00:17:25.500
the, right on Scotts Road. Yeah. Used to be the

00:17:25.500 --> 00:17:29.500
old DFS. Ah, okay. Now it's some exhibition hall.

00:17:29.579 --> 00:17:31.599
Oh God, I don't even know. I don't even care

00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:34.660
because Otter Road is so dead. So Mambo Kings

00:17:34.660 --> 00:17:37.039
back then, you had Fabrice and then you had...

00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:40.339
It was the old Tropicana area. A long time ago,

00:17:40.339 --> 00:17:42.779
Tropicana. Yes, I think... around there. There

00:17:42.779 --> 00:17:45.579
was Mambo Kings, then there was Max Speed, another

00:17:45.579 --> 00:17:49.160
sort of like arcade, sort of game bar. So right

00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:52.880
on the main road. You know where that, what hotel

00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:55.880
is that called? Is it called Crown? Crown Prince?

00:17:56.440 --> 00:17:58.720
That's the other side. Opposite that, not opposite.

00:17:58.900 --> 00:18:02.119
Goodwood Park. No, not Goodwood. Hyatt. Opposite

00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:06.359
Hyatt is? Oh, Holiday Inn, Park View. Not Park

00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:08.740
View, Holiday Inn. Okay, so if that's the Holiday

00:18:08.740 --> 00:18:12.000
Inn, then... If you're standing there, just tuck

00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.400
it away at the corner, then Mumble Kings used

00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:18.259
to be there. So I went in as a bar supervisor,

00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:22.440
worked for them. They had Mumble Kings. I was

00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:24.519
doing some shifts at another bar that they owned

00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:26.960
called Escobar. That was in Boat Quay. Yeah,

00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:31.420
Escobar. Yeah, 97. Then I stayed with them for

00:18:31.420 --> 00:18:35.539
a year. And then I got another call. So again,

00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:39.180
reference. some young owners were coming together

00:18:39.180 --> 00:18:42.680
to open an acid jazz bar. This bar was called

00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:48.079
HUBAR, H -U, apostrophe U. The old St. Joseph's

00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:51.279
Institution on Ras Basah. Yeah, Ras Basah. So

00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:54.380
my job was to be a bar consultant to build it

00:18:54.380 --> 00:18:58.339
up. And the funny part is that three good friends,

00:18:58.579 --> 00:19:02.779
great idea of what they wanted the bar, but never

00:19:02.779 --> 00:19:04.660
agree on anything. So they decided, let's hire

00:19:04.660 --> 00:19:08.619
someone. So he can decide. So I had the job dancing

00:19:08.619 --> 00:19:10.839
between three shareholders and getting it done.

00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:14.160
But I tell you, when we opened in 99, we were

00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:16.740
the talk of the town. We had Ferraris, Lamborghinis

00:19:16.740 --> 00:19:19.940
lined up down Waterloo Street. It was a small

00:19:19.940 --> 00:19:23.420
place, 1 ,200 square feet. But we'd pack it out,

00:19:23.460 --> 00:19:25.640
a couple of hundred every night. Here's my question.

00:19:25.859 --> 00:19:28.059
Yeah. Two, as a matter of fact, it's two -pronged.

00:19:28.059 --> 00:19:31.500
Okay. One is that, yeah, after NS, you could

00:19:31.500 --> 00:19:32.960
have ended up selling, like you said, selling

00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:35.869
back. electronics, you know, for the Harvey Norman,

00:19:35.869 --> 00:19:39.589
the workers, everything, right? But then again,

00:19:39.710 --> 00:19:42.710
you still got drawn back to the bar business.

00:19:44.049 --> 00:19:48.390
That's one, that's one. Okay. Secondly, then

00:19:48.390 --> 00:19:52.049
this thing became bar supervisor, then from bar

00:19:52.049 --> 00:19:54.410
supervisor, you went up and up and up. And then

00:19:54.410 --> 00:19:57.710
you landed this thing as a consultant. Correct.

00:19:57.970 --> 00:20:01.130
And that was your first run. First run, 1999

00:20:01.130 --> 00:20:05.609
as a consultant, yes. Yeah. Now, between what

00:20:05.609 --> 00:20:10.730
I'm trying to drive at. 99, I was 25 years old,

00:20:10.750 --> 00:20:13.529
Chris. Yeah. Not too bad for a consultant. Bloody

00:20:13.529 --> 00:20:16.569
freaking brilliant at 25. But what I'm trying

00:20:16.569 --> 00:20:20.569
to drive at is, is that how, I mean, you could

00:20:20.569 --> 00:20:23.230
have ended up doing something else, but you ended

00:20:23.230 --> 00:20:26.670
up in this. You made a decision, was it? Do you

00:20:26.670 --> 00:20:29.410
think you made a decision because you were passionate?

00:20:29.589 --> 00:20:32.259
You've always been passionate for this. from

00:20:32.259 --> 00:20:36.839
a young age or was it life just drove you that

00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:41.140
way actually okay uh i won't answer one or two

00:20:41.140 --> 00:20:43.720
but i'll just tell you i won't answer it exactly

00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:47.460
is what i meant okay it was definitely not the

00:20:47.460 --> 00:20:52.279
passion cocktail wasn't out yet okay tom cruise

00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:55.119
wasn't a bartender yet that was much later yeah

00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:58.079
or maybe okay anyways it could have been later

00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:02.890
i guess it's two things right I knew my entry

00:21:02.890 --> 00:21:06.230
level salary was going to be on the low. Okay.

00:21:06.329 --> 00:21:08.430
And if anyone was going to give me a little bit

00:21:08.430 --> 00:21:11.569
more than what the usual was, it would be the

00:21:11.569 --> 00:21:13.829
bar seat. Okay. Right? Because I've got fire

00:21:13.829 --> 00:21:15.789
under my belt. I've got studio makers under my

00:21:15.789 --> 00:21:18.109
belt, even though not long. The CV looks pretty

00:21:18.109 --> 00:21:20.809
good. I mean, for a bartender, back then we just

00:21:20.809 --> 00:21:22.650
go and talk. They make some calls and see whether

00:21:22.650 --> 00:21:25.410
this guy is lying or not, right? CVs. Yeah. So

00:21:25.410 --> 00:21:29.269
I had that. And the other thing is, whatever

00:21:29.269 --> 00:21:32.210
I do, I always want to know what I'm doing. If

00:21:32.210 --> 00:21:36.430
I don't know what I'm doing, I tend to, okay,

00:21:36.470 --> 00:21:39.009
I won't say I will stay away from it, but I'll

00:21:39.009 --> 00:21:41.630
definitely go and research and I want to know

00:21:41.630 --> 00:21:43.430
about it. Of course, I have to have interest

00:21:43.430 --> 00:21:48.250
in it as well. So going back when I thought no

00:21:48.250 --> 00:21:50.190
choice, I said, let's just try it for a year

00:21:50.190 --> 00:21:53.390
or two, better than not working or struggling,

00:21:53.509 --> 00:21:56.450
and then see what I want to do next. But every

00:21:56.450 --> 00:22:00.740
time I worked, I just knew more and more. And

00:22:00.740 --> 00:22:03.160
I'll tell you why I knew more and more. Because

00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:05.680
I don't like not knowing, you know, as a bar

00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:08.259
supervisor, right? So the owners will call you

00:22:08.259 --> 00:22:10.700
and like, oh, your cost of goods is too high.

00:22:11.380 --> 00:22:14.579
COG, okay. Yeah, your COGS, cost of goods sales,

00:22:14.619 --> 00:22:19.380
okay? Or COS for some people. What the hell are

00:22:19.380 --> 00:22:21.519
they talking about? But I just keep quiet. You

00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:24.619
know your bar work. You know how to get the money

00:22:24.619 --> 00:22:26.400
in the tail, make the customer happy. But what

00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:30.480
goes on behind? I forgot her name, but I got

00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.519
to go find out. So I knew my accountant would

00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:36.019
stay back every Monday night, you know, to do

00:22:36.019 --> 00:22:38.579
her paperwork. So I would buy her dinner so that

00:22:38.579 --> 00:22:40.400
I could sit with her in the office for about

00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:45.579
an hour. And why? Because I know that the owners

00:22:45.579 --> 00:22:48.339
would get updated from finance, right? Right.

00:22:48.380 --> 00:22:50.160
So I'm like, what is she putting on this piece

00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:53.660
of paper? What is this COGS? What are the owners

00:22:53.660 --> 00:22:56.500
looking at? But why? Why were you so interested?

00:22:56.579 --> 00:22:59.180
You said you wanted to know. I want to answer

00:22:59.180 --> 00:23:01.859
them when they ask me a question. I wanted to

00:23:01.859 --> 00:23:04.720
know the answer as far as the bar is concerned.

00:23:04.940 --> 00:23:08.180
Right. You want to take ownership of it. Yeah,

00:23:08.180 --> 00:23:10.819
I mean, you say you're doing something and if

00:23:10.819 --> 00:23:13.039
someone asks you about something that... Not

00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:16.019
everyone's like you, you know. Well, maybe I'm

00:23:16.019 --> 00:23:18.960
lucky. I'm lucky to be a capo in that sense.

00:23:19.099 --> 00:23:21.220
And I think the other driving factor, number

00:23:21.220 --> 00:23:24.160
one, is not to look bad when you say you're doing

00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:25.750
something and you don't know what it is. Right.

00:23:25.890 --> 00:23:28.549
So I had to catch up. And number two is it's

00:23:28.549 --> 00:23:30.910
the only way you're going to get paid more, right?

00:23:30.970 --> 00:23:34.150
If you know more as time goes. Right. So I spent

00:23:34.150 --> 00:23:37.910
my time, I spent a lot of extra time trying to

00:23:37.910 --> 00:23:39.910
know the bar business at the back end. Okay.

00:23:40.109 --> 00:23:43.309
Right? Right up to if the business has got no

00:23:43.309 --> 00:23:46.079
money. How do we finish the bar? We need renovation.

00:23:46.099 --> 00:23:49.539
So I can do some masonry work. If the plumber

00:23:49.539 --> 00:23:51.559
comes in and tells me how much to fix a pipe,

00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:54.440
I'll know if he's lying. The electrician, anything

00:23:54.440 --> 00:23:59.079
else that would affect the business I run, even

00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:02.779
at a bar supervisor level, I took that couple

00:24:02.779 --> 00:24:04.859
of years to quickly learn as much. And then the

00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:09.130
consultancy thing came in. So to learn, you need

00:24:09.130 --> 00:24:11.029
to make friends. I need to make friends with

00:24:11.029 --> 00:24:12.569
the plumber when he came to fix something or

00:24:12.569 --> 00:24:14.750
else he's not going to teach me. It's just like,

00:24:14.809 --> 00:24:16.430
I'm going to fix and go, who's this young kid?

00:24:18.329 --> 00:24:22.569
Suppliers, contractors. So as a consultant, whatever

00:24:22.569 --> 00:24:26.349
contacts I made in the few years, I brought it

00:24:26.349 --> 00:24:30.170
all in together with that knowledge and ultimately

00:24:30.170 --> 00:24:33.650
had to build that bar. And it helped. It definitely

00:24:33.650 --> 00:24:36.670
helped. Okay, so when you were given that first

00:24:36.670 --> 00:24:41.490
gig as a consultant, you went in there on a scale

00:24:41.490 --> 00:24:45.569
of 1 to 10. Yes, go. Having whatever you've learned

00:24:45.569 --> 00:24:49.390
already at that time, finding out about so many

00:24:49.390 --> 00:24:52.250
things, being the guy that just says, look, listen,

00:24:52.390 --> 00:24:54.509
I've got to know this shit because I need to

00:24:54.509 --> 00:24:57.190
be able to represent myself that I know my shit

00:24:57.190 --> 00:25:03.799
well enough. Yep. With all these, at that time,

00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:06.640
on a scale of 1 to 10, what was your confidence

00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:10.400
level of going into your first gig as a consultant?

00:25:10.980 --> 00:25:12.819
Okay, this is going to be a two -prong answer.

00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:16.220
The first answer to your question, 3 upon 10.

00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:21.359
3 upon 10, right? Because it's not just the bar,

00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:25.559
but a whole venue, right? So 3 upon 10. And also

00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:28.160
3 upon 10 because I was the first employee, right?

00:25:28.259 --> 00:25:32.019
I had to build a team. Versus whatever experience

00:25:32.019 --> 00:25:36.819
I had, I always joined a team. The second part

00:25:36.819 --> 00:25:41.039
of that answer is I was quite confident to take

00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:43.079
the job because the owners were looking for a

00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:47.480
few basics. Customer service. Training the bar

00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:49.759
guys and the service guys. They want top -notch

00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:53.240
service. And put the bar together with the menu

00:25:53.240 --> 00:25:55.960
and things like that. That I can do nine upon

00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:59.480
ten. So the three upon ten is all the other things

00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:03.019
that The owners didn't know that I required to

00:26:03.019 --> 00:26:05.339
know in order to pull this whole thing off. But

00:26:05.339 --> 00:26:08.500
did you know? Well, 3 upon 10 on those things,

00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:10.039
right? The little things that I know, right?

00:26:10.119 --> 00:26:11.599
I'm sure they could have found someone with a

00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:14.480
9 upon 10 on that part. Yeah. But they were focused

00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:17.839
on the people and the front -facing part with

00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:19.880
the customer. So that part, I was confident 9

00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:22.359
upon 10. So I guess they didn't know exactly

00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:24.299
what they were looking for, but it worked out

00:26:24.299 --> 00:26:26.400
well. I didn't stay long, only a year, and I'll

00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:30.710
get to why only a year, but we did well. their

00:26:30.710 --> 00:26:34.849
return of investment was under a year. I think

00:26:34.849 --> 00:26:37.569
I had about like maybe eight or 10 bartenders,

00:26:37.609 --> 00:26:41.049
another 12 on the floor. And it was rocking.

00:26:41.130 --> 00:26:44.730
It was good. It was fun, fun days. And like I

00:26:44.730 --> 00:26:47.190
said, I was still in mid twenties, right? So

00:26:47.190 --> 00:26:50.609
yeah, so a young team and we did very well. It's

00:26:50.609 --> 00:26:53.329
a pity. It lasted about, I don't know, six, seven

00:26:53.329 --> 00:26:55.890
years. And then later on it closed. I only stayed

00:26:55.890 --> 00:26:57.589
there a year because I had another opportunity

00:26:57.589 --> 00:27:00.339
that came along. And I said, I had to take it.

00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:03.160
Okay. Right. Which is what I did. And that's

00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:06.099
why after a year, I stepped down from Uber. I

00:27:06.099 --> 00:27:08.039
loved it a fair bit. And then I had to go on

00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:11.140
to my next venture. Okay. Before I get to that

00:27:11.140 --> 00:27:17.579
venture. Yeah. This phrase, sheer hard work,

00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:19.680
seemed to be popping up everywhere online when

00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:23.960
it comes to you. Oh. When it comes to me, okay.

00:27:24.740 --> 00:27:32.059
So the school dropout to CEO eventually. You

00:27:32.059 --> 00:27:35.240
say it's all about sheer hard work. If I were

00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:37.559
to ask you the toughest lesson you've learned

00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:41.140
on the job that a classroom could never teach

00:27:41.140 --> 00:27:48.339
you? Wow. I think the most important or what

00:27:48.339 --> 00:27:51.279
I would say the most valuable. then you won't

00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:53.299
get out of the classroom, right? It's really

00:27:53.299 --> 00:27:59.119
doing the work. So the human connection, the

00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:01.460
classroom teaches you how you get from A to B.

00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:04.680
It doesn't tell you two or three fools will be

00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:07.099
blocking you along the way. One guy won't show

00:28:07.099 --> 00:28:09.180
up for work and you still have to deliver. It

00:28:09.180 --> 00:28:12.730
doesn't tell you all that. right uh so basically

00:28:12.730 --> 00:28:15.769
for me it would be the reality of the outside

00:28:15.769 --> 00:28:19.150
world and and just just work related it's really

00:28:19.150 --> 00:28:22.690
about people managing people working with people

00:28:22.690 --> 00:28:24.950
and sometimes being managed by people that's

00:28:24.950 --> 00:28:27.970
that's really really i i i don't know if they

00:28:27.970 --> 00:28:30.609
teach it in classes and then i bet that's why

00:28:30.609 --> 00:28:34.210
a lot of uh learning institutes have uh night

00:28:34.210 --> 00:28:38.630
classes for for adults and and how they try to

00:28:39.019 --> 00:28:41.039
Bring case studies in. Yeah, they invite guys

00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:44.839
like you to give lectures as well. Yeah, I've

00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:47.079
done a few at SMU as well. I'm pretty sure. I'm

00:28:47.079 --> 00:28:50.480
pretty sure, yeah. So I think the classroom doesn't

00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:53.900
prepare you for that human connection to get

00:28:53.900 --> 00:28:56.279
something done. Okay. So I think that would be

00:28:56.279 --> 00:28:59.200
one very, very strong point in my view. Okay,

00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:02.720
thank you. But I think I know why you left that

00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:05.339
job after a year because you had another offer.

00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:08.059
You went to Melbourne, right? Yes. I thought

00:29:08.059 --> 00:29:12.880
so. What happened there? With who? 99, I was,

00:29:12.940 --> 00:29:15.440
well, I like to use the word lucky. Anyways,

00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:21.420
there were two partners in Australia. One was

00:29:21.420 --> 00:29:25.519
Singaporean and Aussie partner or Indonesian

00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:28.119
Singaporean. Anyways, they acquired a club. Right.

00:29:28.420 --> 00:29:32.779
Right. And the club was big, right? 20 ,000 square

00:29:32.779 --> 00:29:37.630
feet. Oh, man. So we're talking five bars. At

00:29:37.630 --> 00:29:40.569
any one point in time, full house would be about

00:29:40.569 --> 00:29:44.529
2 ,000. So it was a huge project. And I've only

00:29:44.529 --> 00:29:47.869
been a year into this consulting of 1 ,200 square

00:29:47.869 --> 00:29:50.430
feet bar. Our full house is like 300 people.

00:29:51.289 --> 00:29:53.710
But high level, of course, in terms of spend.

00:29:54.450 --> 00:29:58.730
So I guess they wanted a Singaporean. And same

00:29:58.730 --> 00:30:02.170
thing, right? They wanted someone to just build

00:30:02.170 --> 00:30:06.599
the bars. Okay. Right? Because with the AV and

00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:08.559
contractors, architects, you know, things like

00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:11.559
this, you can always get someone to come in.

00:30:11.740 --> 00:30:14.380
Right. And they just, I guess, because a lot

00:30:14.380 --> 00:30:17.180
of the money back then in the 90s in Australia,

00:30:17.460 --> 00:30:20.480
some places, now it's mainly digital and before

00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:23.079
then it was all cash business. Yeah. Right? And

00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:25.660
nobody buys a bottle or a jug. There's no such

00:30:25.660 --> 00:30:27.900
thing. It's over -the -counter sales. Buy the

00:30:27.900 --> 00:30:31.579
glass. So I think they wanted a Singaporean to

00:30:31.579 --> 00:30:34.119
set up the bar. and then to run the bar team.

00:30:34.500 --> 00:30:37.119
So I got that call and I said, well, okay, I've

00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:39.319
only got one suitcase, couple of clothes, some

00:30:39.319 --> 00:30:42.559
of my stationery, put it all in and said, okay,

00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:46.400
I'll take it a consultancy job for a year to

00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:50.640
build a club, to just build the bars. Yeah. And

00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:53.619
then the job finishes after a year. So it's a

00:30:53.619 --> 00:30:56.160
consultancy contract, but Melbourne doesn't come

00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:59.950
all the time, right? Yeah. And back then, It

00:30:59.950 --> 00:31:02.069
was not so accessible to travel. I didn't grow

00:31:02.069 --> 00:31:04.549
up rich, right? Believe it or not, my first flight,

00:31:04.630 --> 00:31:07.930
I was 21 years old going to Taiwan. The army

00:31:07.930 --> 00:31:13.329
sent me, right? Summer. Yeah. My kids, before

00:31:13.329 --> 00:31:14.950
their diapers can come off, they're flying all

00:31:14.950 --> 00:31:17.690
over the world. Yeah. So I took the opportunity.

00:31:17.829 --> 00:31:20.089
I was young. Didn't matter if the contract was

00:31:20.089 --> 00:31:22.869
only a year and I packed my bags and went. So

00:31:22.869 --> 00:31:27.890
you went there again. Yes. From 1 ,300 square

00:31:27.890 --> 00:31:32.990
feet. Yes. Consulting for that. Yeah. Two, consulting

00:31:32.990 --> 00:31:36.750
now for this huge monster in Melbourne. Overseas,

00:31:36.789 --> 00:31:41.390
confidence level. Yeah. Going there. Scale of

00:31:41.390 --> 00:31:44.609
1 to 10. Same thing. Two parts to the answer.

00:31:46.309 --> 00:31:50.130
First part, 3 upon 10. Actually, no. 2 upon 10.

00:31:50.609 --> 00:31:53.869
2 upon 10, even worse. Yeah. Going to a foreign

00:31:53.869 --> 00:31:57.349
country. Yeah. Right? So... Obviously, they're

00:31:57.349 --> 00:31:59.349
English speaking. It's fine. But you're talking

00:31:59.349 --> 00:32:01.970
about culture, recruiting, then developing a

00:32:01.970 --> 00:32:04.829
team to listen to you. And you are going in in

00:32:04.829 --> 00:32:07.609
your mid -20s. And I didn't know what the bar

00:32:07.609 --> 00:32:10.630
culture was like in Melbourne back then. I mean,

00:32:10.650 --> 00:32:12.809
I've been for a holiday, short ones here and

00:32:12.809 --> 00:32:16.390
there, but never really seen it, right? And the

00:32:16.390 --> 00:32:18.809
funny part is, I was so excited to go, I didn't

00:32:18.809 --> 00:32:20.910
ask them what was the size of the club. How many

00:32:20.910 --> 00:32:23.289
bars do you need me to build? Really? I thought

00:32:23.289 --> 00:32:24.970
you're coming. I'm in Huba, right? I thought

00:32:24.970 --> 00:32:28.109
you're going to make me. They said club, right?

00:32:28.150 --> 00:32:30.089
I thought a small club would put a big bar in

00:32:30.089 --> 00:32:32.490
there. What's so hard? I've done fires, steelmakers,

00:32:32.710 --> 00:32:34.789
how to operate. So I said, yeah, no problem.

00:32:34.869 --> 00:32:38.329
So confidence, a low on culture and things like

00:32:38.329 --> 00:32:41.190
that. But also confidence high that I know I

00:32:41.190 --> 00:32:43.970
can do it straight after Huba because I didn't

00:32:43.970 --> 00:32:45.630
know then the size of what I was going to do

00:32:45.630 --> 00:32:53.029
until I landed. I wasn't so good at Google and

00:32:53.029 --> 00:32:56.730
to search pictures. Who told you? They told you

00:32:56.730 --> 00:32:59.230
the size of the place. What was your reaction?

00:32:59.670 --> 00:33:04.069
I was like, bugger, I got cheated. I would have

00:33:04.069 --> 00:33:11.450
gone, oh, fuck. But, you know, I think I went

00:33:11.450 --> 00:33:15.559
straight to work. When I got there, the architects

00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:17.339
weren't happy I came along because I changed

00:33:17.339 --> 00:33:20.200
all their drawings and their plans. Wow, ballsy

00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:22.759
man. There were five bars and the architects

00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:25.839
were in their late 50s and I was this mid -20s

00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:27.740
guy telling them, no, you can't build it like

00:33:27.740 --> 00:33:31.700
this. Using my pencil and ruler and they're using

00:33:31.700 --> 00:33:34.640
AutoCAD with their computers and trying to get

00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:38.299
this going. And then, because same thing, not

00:33:38.299 --> 00:33:42.690
many employees. There was a Singaporean, ops

00:33:42.690 --> 00:33:45.049
manager jackie jackie lawrence jackie shout out

00:33:45.049 --> 00:33:47.230
to you jackie she's eurasian lives around see

00:33:47.230 --> 00:33:50.710
me okay we'll meet we'll meet i'll bring you

00:33:50.710 --> 00:33:53.789
to to meet her at uh at mel's one day okay sure

00:33:53.789 --> 00:33:57.150
man yeah so it was only me and her and and we

00:33:57.150 --> 00:33:58.609
didn't have to build the team till the club was

00:33:58.609 --> 00:34:02.170
ready right okay yeah so then i just pretty much

00:34:02.170 --> 00:34:04.609
say jackie you plan the menu things like that

00:34:04.609 --> 00:34:06.630
anything come back to me i had to look into the

00:34:06.630 --> 00:34:09.610
construction right so the drawings the builders

00:34:09.610 --> 00:34:13.849
uh the av setup you know and it's so funny we

00:34:13.849 --> 00:34:15.849
never had strikes in singapore right strike hey

00:34:15.849 --> 00:34:18.210
we're all the workers or union strike so no one's

00:34:18.210 --> 00:34:20.690
working today i said we're gonna finish the work

00:34:20.690 --> 00:34:24.309
then i i realized that oh okay they're not gonna

00:34:24.309 --> 00:34:26.630
listen to this kid right right uh and i don't

00:34:26.630 --> 00:34:29.309
go around shouting you know i i i try to do things

00:34:29.309 --> 00:34:32.309
in a pragmatic way and and i try to connect with

00:34:32.309 --> 00:34:34.969
people to get the job done but like i said right

00:34:34.969 --> 00:34:37.480
what they don't teach you in school is sometimes

00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:40.360
all your skills, you can't negotiate out of one,

00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:42.219
two people. That's life. That happens. And then

00:34:42.219 --> 00:34:44.179
you got to figure a way out of it or around it.

00:34:44.619 --> 00:34:47.480
So I went to the owners and said, listen, I need

00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:51.179
this money every Friday. Okay. Sausage sizzle.

00:34:51.260 --> 00:34:54.079
I'll put a barbecue outside in the car park and

00:34:54.079 --> 00:34:58.199
esky free beers for all the workers. 3pm we'll

00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:00.400
start. So every Friday they knew for the last

00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:01.920
two hours, three to five, they didn't have to

00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:04.949
work. Free hot dogs and beer. And after that,

00:35:05.030 --> 00:35:07.909
you can see how fast the clubs get. Wow. After

00:35:07.909 --> 00:35:10.650
that, every day at work, hey, how are you going,

00:35:10.730 --> 00:35:12.769
man? Okay, good, good, good. And everything gets

00:35:12.769 --> 00:35:16.889
done. So it was tough because full scale at that

00:35:16.889 --> 00:35:22.590
size. So again, I welcomed it. I didn't complain.

00:35:22.969 --> 00:35:26.570
And when you're learning something, sometimes

00:35:26.570 --> 00:35:28.329
you don't know you're learning. But when I look

00:35:28.329 --> 00:35:30.610
back at it, I was like, wow, I learned a lot

00:35:30.610 --> 00:35:34.610
more than... than anything else. And that set

00:35:34.610 --> 00:35:37.769
me up for quite a fair bit. Where do you see

00:35:37.769 --> 00:35:40.769
your career going at that stage? Wow. At that

00:35:40.769 --> 00:35:42.530
stage, I only had a one -year contract. Yeah.

00:35:43.030 --> 00:35:45.829
We got the club going. Right. The Knights were

00:35:45.829 --> 00:35:48.260
going well. Right. I worked well with the promoters

00:35:48.260 --> 00:35:51.480
as well. So, you know, we had Asian nights. It's

00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:54.260
quite racist and cultural in terms of how they

00:35:54.260 --> 00:35:57.340
label the nights. Asian nights, all Asian. You

00:35:57.340 --> 00:36:00.300
know, African nights, all African. And Aussie

00:36:00.300 --> 00:36:03.699
nights, all... Yeah. All Aussies. Yes. You get

00:36:03.699 --> 00:36:07.179
where I'm going. And the clubs, how they operate

00:36:07.179 --> 00:36:10.179
in Australia is mainly promoter run. back then,

00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:12.500
right? So if you're the venue operator, you manage

00:36:12.500 --> 00:36:14.460
your bars, you got your venue security and everything,

00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:16.599
but the promoters bring the people. So I got

00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:19.340
along well and worked well with all the promoters,

00:36:19.380 --> 00:36:22.800
different cultures, backgrounds. Yeah, so after

00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:24.840
one year, you know, the owner was nice enough

00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:28.460
to give me a GM position for that venue. And

00:36:28.460 --> 00:36:30.320
I stayed another two years with them. So overall,

00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:33.440
three years at Salt. Wow. It's called Salt? Salt.

00:36:33.690 --> 00:36:39.150
Sound and light technology. So now I know Nathan

00:36:39.150 --> 00:36:43.730
is great at consulting, starting up bars, clubs.

00:36:44.309 --> 00:36:48.690
But we also know that Nathan is known for fixing

00:36:48.690 --> 00:36:51.750
up struggling businesses like Le Fabrique in

00:36:51.750 --> 00:36:57.889
Shanghai. Yes. What happened there? Okay, so...

00:36:58.280 --> 00:37:00.699
After three years in Melbourne, I stayed another

00:37:00.699 --> 00:37:02.760
three doing other things, right? Events, clubs

00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:04.739
and everything. So six years was the whole journey

00:37:04.739 --> 00:37:09.159
there. And then, you know, I told my wife, I

00:37:09.159 --> 00:37:12.239
said, okay, let's leave Melbourne. The scene's

00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:14.559
struggling. But you got married already by then.

00:37:14.739 --> 00:37:19.519
Yeah. And the scenes, we got married here, but

00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:22.920
we were dating. And I said, let's leave because,

00:37:22.980 --> 00:37:26.099
you know, the scene was struggling. And it was...

00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:29.840
It was tough with getting proper jobs and salaries

00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:31.400
and things like that. So I said, let's go back

00:37:31.400 --> 00:37:34.039
to Singapore. And I didn't find anything here.

00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:37.199
I just packed up and we came back here. We got

00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:41.139
here in 2005. Unfortunately, no one's heard of

00:37:41.139 --> 00:37:45.380
me in the last six years. And all my interviews

00:37:45.380 --> 00:37:50.449
were with... people who are either my rank or

00:37:50.449 --> 00:37:54.929
my capability or maybe even lower. So I didn't

00:37:54.929 --> 00:37:58.030
know the owners direct to get a senior position.

00:37:58.769 --> 00:38:01.929
And I was lucky enough that someone introduced

00:38:01.929 --> 00:38:05.010
an owner, Singaporean lady that owns a club in

00:38:05.010 --> 00:38:08.250
Shanghai that she's invested in and hasn't been

00:38:08.250 --> 00:38:10.989
doing well for the last one year. And same thing.

00:38:11.340 --> 00:38:13.659
trusted a Singaporean to be around. And so I

00:38:13.659 --> 00:38:16.260
packed my bags and went to Shanghai. I knew this

00:38:16.260 --> 00:38:19.619
would be a short gig because when I went in there,

00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:22.079
I told her, you're not going to recover your

00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.579
full investment. So maybe perhaps the best way

00:38:25.579 --> 00:38:29.139
is let's get the business going, make it look

00:38:29.139 --> 00:38:31.760
good because it has to be good. And then you

00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:34.300
find a buyer that's willing to pay X. you know

00:38:34.300 --> 00:38:36.820
and then that could be the way out and yeah and

00:38:36.820 --> 00:38:39.920
uh funnily enough luckily enough i completed

00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:42.179
that journey in a year and she actually sold

00:38:42.179 --> 00:38:45.159
it she actually sold it so yeah i went into la

00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:48.679
fabric it was a concept uh created in paris and

00:38:48.679 --> 00:38:50.320
then they had one in tokyo and then it came to

00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:53.880
shanghai so it's a high -end restaurant that

00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:56.500
turns into an ultra lounge sort of club you know

00:38:56.500 --> 00:38:59.760
that that's sort of a scene right uh maybe paris

00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:03.940
tokyo it could work transport uh Weather, I don't

00:39:03.940 --> 00:39:05.659
know. But in Shanghai, it was too difficult.

00:39:05.780 --> 00:39:08.139
It was too difficult to get the fine dining scene

00:39:08.139 --> 00:39:10.699
going and then the DJs coming in and dance club

00:39:10.699 --> 00:39:15.219
scene. So we rebranded La Fabrique to just Fabrique,

00:39:15.380 --> 00:39:19.099
right? Turned it into a pure club, right? Straight

00:39:19.099 --> 00:39:21.699
from Melbourne, right? So pure club. Ran Fridays

00:39:21.699 --> 00:39:24.559
and Saturdays as the club. And the other days,

00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:27.179
it became an event space because it was built

00:39:27.179 --> 00:39:31.559
in a factory. And back then in Shanghai in 2005,

00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:34.199
a lot of events were coming, right? Porsche,

00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:38.000
Montblanc, Johnny Walker, Chivas Regal. So we

00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:41.719
could make a good business out of it, just running

00:39:41.719 --> 00:39:44.659
two club nights and an event space. And yeah,

00:39:44.699 --> 00:39:46.639
we just curated the year in that way. And then

00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:49.179
it went well until they sold it. Okay. Yeah.

00:39:50.039 --> 00:39:52.739
How do you see all these things? I mean, you've

00:39:52.739 --> 00:39:56.340
got to have a little knack. to really foresee

00:39:56.340 --> 00:39:58.880
how you turn something struggling like this.

00:39:59.820 --> 00:40:02.400
Like you saw that, why don't we just, you know,

00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:04.739
change the name, call it Fabrique. That's one,

00:40:04.940 --> 00:40:08.340
the brand. Secondly, oh, it's a warehouse space.

00:40:08.460 --> 00:40:11.000
Maybe we can sell events. How do you come up

00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:14.880
with all these concepts, ideas? Well, that's,

00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:17.460
okay, nobody's ever asked me that. I don't think

00:40:17.460 --> 00:40:20.769
I've got a... Like I said, I didn't have Google

00:40:20.769 --> 00:40:23.130
or chat GPT back then. Exactly why I want to

00:40:23.130 --> 00:40:25.369
check your brain. I think it's about really studying

00:40:25.369 --> 00:40:27.550
the ground. When you look at the night economy

00:40:27.550 --> 00:40:30.570
and at night with bars, restaurants and everything

00:40:30.570 --> 00:40:32.869
in any city, any country, right? You just got

00:40:32.869 --> 00:40:35.010
to align yourself with the right people and then

00:40:35.010 --> 00:40:36.849
they bring you around and you see what's going

00:40:36.849 --> 00:40:38.769
on. My first three months was all just seeing.

00:40:39.010 --> 00:40:41.210
Every night I was out. Fact -finding missions.

00:40:41.349 --> 00:40:44.570
Yes. I didn't care if the club was Chinese, if

00:40:44.570 --> 00:40:46.809
it was an event space, restaurant, anywhere with

00:40:46.809 --> 00:40:49.460
the... cool kids hang out okay where do the locals

00:40:49.460 --> 00:40:52.320
go right different tiers of locals in terms of

00:40:52.320 --> 00:40:56.219
spend uh expats uh tourists so just try to figure

00:40:56.219 --> 00:40:58.340
all that out and then looking at the location

00:40:58.340 --> 00:41:00.960
looking what we have uh that's why sometimes

00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:03.699
i always say right if anyone asked me if i gave

00:41:03.699 --> 00:41:05.980
you a million dollars would you build the best

00:41:05.980 --> 00:41:08.440
restaurant or the best club right and i said

00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:11.679
there's no best there's no best it depends on

00:41:12.269 --> 00:41:15.429
It depends on so many things. So it's really

00:41:15.429 --> 00:41:17.789
knowing the ground, even though you're not from

00:41:17.789 --> 00:41:20.349
there, talking to the right people, getting the

00:41:20.349 --> 00:41:22.469
right feedback, putting the numbers together.

00:41:22.630 --> 00:41:27.510
And then a lot of people try things, see how

00:41:27.510 --> 00:41:31.309
it goes. But there's a lot of danger in there

00:41:31.309 --> 00:41:33.849
if it involves money. So I try to say, okay,

00:41:33.909 --> 00:41:37.030
we'll try this. If it doesn't work, I've got

00:41:37.030 --> 00:41:39.949
plan B, plan C. But the end result is still the

00:41:39.949 --> 00:41:42.539
end result. And if we need to alter along the

00:41:42.539 --> 00:41:45.219
way, we're still altering just to maneuver, but

00:41:45.219 --> 00:41:47.980
the end result still stays. So I try to map it

00:41:47.980 --> 00:41:50.599
out in that sense so that if it goes well, I

00:41:50.599 --> 00:41:53.059
don't become lazy and say, oh, it's going well.

00:41:53.219 --> 00:41:55.219
Or if it's bad, then I start saying, okay, now

00:41:55.219 --> 00:41:56.900
the club's got to be a restaurant or the restaurant's

00:41:56.900 --> 00:41:59.650
got to be a cafe or just start. pulling ideas

00:41:59.650 --> 00:42:03.650
out because the industry is vast right so so

00:42:03.650 --> 00:42:06.769
uh i don't know it just comes to me and i do

00:42:06.769 --> 00:42:08.829
my research i don't get everything right i get

00:42:08.829 --> 00:42:11.349
a lot of things wrong as well but the wrongs

00:42:11.349 --> 00:42:14.130
sometimes uh can be counted by the right so it's

00:42:14.130 --> 00:42:16.070
really how quickly you react and then you have

00:42:16.070 --> 00:42:18.570
to be on the ground to know it's not like a full

00:42:18.570 --> 00:42:20.789
-time desk job even though i prefer desk job

00:42:20.789 --> 00:42:24.030
now but back then yeah that's important because

00:42:24.030 --> 00:42:26.780
i just want to find out i want to Tap your brain.

00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:29.900
And for my viewers and listeners to also discover

00:42:29.900 --> 00:42:33.039
how does a person see something like this and

00:42:33.039 --> 00:42:38.239
go, oh, is there a formula? But you said it right.

00:42:38.340 --> 00:42:39.980
I mean, you got on the ground. You went to discover

00:42:39.980 --> 00:42:42.460
fact -finding missions. You know, what works

00:42:42.460 --> 00:42:46.300
and what doesn't. Yeah. Thinking back on your

00:42:46.300 --> 00:42:48.579
career from Cafe Del Mar to the Big Ideas Group,

00:42:49.260 --> 00:42:53.480
what's one contribution you're most proud of?

00:42:54.339 --> 00:42:56.199
that set you up for all the success you've had?

00:42:57.519 --> 00:43:02.079
I guess the opportunity for all the past owners

00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:06.280
to at least give me the job. You keep using the

00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:09.719
word luck, you know, I can't stand it. You said

00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:13.639
luck twice. In both of your opportunities, Shanghai

00:43:13.639 --> 00:43:16.780
and Melbourne, man, you said luck. Yeah. Well,

00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:18.619
sometimes it comes knocking, right? So you then

00:43:18.619 --> 00:43:22.239
think luck, right? Yeah, I think the opportunity

00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:25.619
to at least secure the job from the owners, that's

00:43:25.619 --> 00:43:27.739
definitely appreciated. And then the people that

00:43:27.739 --> 00:43:31.159
made the reference and made the contact. To be

00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:34.820
honest, these days, you have to be sure when

00:43:34.820 --> 00:43:36.880
you refer someone. And most people are referring

00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:38.880
my character. They're not referring my work.

00:43:39.179 --> 00:43:41.940
I mean, you're not there to really see, right?

00:43:42.219 --> 00:43:46.530
So the reference of a person. my personal view

00:43:46.530 --> 00:43:49.170
is where I think it is. And of course, you can

00:43:49.170 --> 00:43:50.969
put two and two together. The person working

00:43:50.969 --> 00:43:53.210
there for a year or two, it looks good, must

00:43:53.210 --> 00:43:54.849
have something to do with it. That part is simple,

00:43:54.929 --> 00:43:57.969
but it's also the integrity to get the job done

00:43:57.969 --> 00:44:01.769
and things like that. So I landed Del Mar because

00:44:01.769 --> 00:44:05.320
when Shanghai got sold, They had no job for me

00:44:05.320 --> 00:44:07.820
and didn't want to give me a nice fat bonus to

00:44:07.820 --> 00:44:11.579
relax after my one year of hard work. So I made

00:44:11.579 --> 00:44:13.500
a deal. I said, you get me three job interviews

00:44:13.500 --> 00:44:15.739
in Singapore because I want to go back. And out

00:44:15.739 --> 00:44:18.320
of the three, one materialized and Café Del Mar,

00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:21.000
which was under the Life Brands, the MOS group

00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:25.960
back then. And yeah, so I had the honor to manage

00:44:25.960 --> 00:44:29.699
Balcony Bar, which was at Heeran back then in

00:44:29.699 --> 00:44:32.909
Orchard Road. actually build Cafe Del Mar. So

00:44:32.909 --> 00:44:35.349
now I had a project of building a beach club,

00:44:35.449 --> 00:44:39.809
putting a pool in the sand of a beach, getting

00:44:39.809 --> 00:44:42.849
everything done outdoors in that sense. So it

00:44:42.849 --> 00:44:45.829
was a great opportunity for that one year when

00:44:45.829 --> 00:44:49.690
I was at Cafe Del Mar because that construction

00:44:49.690 --> 00:44:52.250
and setup, it was a once in a lifetime and it

00:44:52.250 --> 00:44:54.829
went well. Went flying off the roof from day

00:44:54.829 --> 00:44:57.210
one when they started. It was fun. It was fun.

00:44:58.170 --> 00:45:01.059
But... My daughter got born and I was so happy.

00:45:01.139 --> 00:45:04.260
My oldest girl, Mila, she's 18 now. And I was

00:45:04.260 --> 00:45:06.639
coming back 5, 6 o 'clock in the morning. And

00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:10.619
even on off days, we were overwhelmed. We were

00:45:10.619 --> 00:45:13.039
understaffed. We were doing sales over a million

00:45:13.039 --> 00:45:16.659
dollars a month for a beach club back in 2007.

00:45:18.760 --> 00:45:22.840
So it was very tiring. They realized it was...

00:45:23.949 --> 00:45:25.969
Such a good business that half of Clarkie, because

00:45:25.969 --> 00:45:27.809
we had a lot of bars and clubs in Clarkie, they

00:45:27.809 --> 00:45:31.309
put half the manpower force into Sentosa to get

00:45:31.309 --> 00:45:34.230
that going. So when my daughter was born, I said,

00:45:34.349 --> 00:45:38.389
you know, I got to relook the nightlife and the

00:45:38.389 --> 00:45:42.269
movement. This is my first girl and I have to

00:45:42.269 --> 00:45:45.190
relook how I earn my money or how my career goes.

00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:51.179
Then Karen was the owner for Australia, Melbourne

00:45:51.179 --> 00:45:53.119
Salt. You know, she came back to Singapore and

00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:55.639
said, hey, listen, I invested in a restaurant

00:45:55.639 --> 00:46:01.179
in Bukit Timah at the Saddle Club. And now we're

00:46:01.179 --> 00:46:03.980
looking for like a GM to run it because my partners

00:46:03.980 --> 00:46:06.460
were doing it, but I don't think they've got

00:46:06.460 --> 00:46:09.480
the right experience and we need a GM to come

00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:12.050
in. And I'm like, I'm working for a public listed

00:46:12.050 --> 00:46:14.250
company. I can't go back to one restaurant and

00:46:14.250 --> 00:46:19.389
the salary. And so we spoke and John, her partner,

00:46:19.530 --> 00:46:23.030
great guy as well. And they gave me an offer,

00:46:23.150 --> 00:46:26.590
which was lower, but it wasn't too bad, right?

00:46:26.690 --> 00:46:29.869
Considering that I could sleep, right? And spend

00:46:29.869 --> 00:46:32.489
time with my daughter and everything. So I made

00:46:32.489 --> 00:46:39.260
that jump going up to... Or MNC company and then

00:46:39.260 --> 00:46:41.420
coming back private again with just one restaurant.

00:46:41.579 --> 00:46:43.519
What restaurant is this? This is called Mimolette

00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:46.699
back then. You know where the old turf club used

00:46:46.699 --> 00:46:48.900
to be? Yeah, yeah. But this is the saddle club

00:46:48.900 --> 00:46:51.900
inside. It's a white house. Now it's all gutted

00:46:51.900 --> 00:46:53.619
out. I think they're building condos. Yeah, yeah.

00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:58.980
But we opened there in 2007. Excuse me. If I'm

00:46:58.980 --> 00:47:02.679
not mistaken, the casinos opened in 2009 or 2010.

00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:05.989
But back then in 2007. we were the place to be

00:47:05.989 --> 00:47:09.510
now this is a restaurant so we went in there

00:47:09.510 --> 00:47:14.670
uh and there was a nice bar private room sort

00:47:14.670 --> 00:47:17.510
of french modern european cuisine good brunch

00:47:17.510 --> 00:47:23.449
good outdoors and uh well let's let's let's make

00:47:23.449 --> 00:47:25.989
friday nights a party night so the restaurant

00:47:25.989 --> 00:47:28.570
converted in the club we had like sometimes two

00:47:28.570 --> 00:47:30.429
or three different djs going on with different

00:47:30.429 --> 00:47:33.070
music and and it was the place to be and then

00:47:33.759 --> 00:47:35.559
Well, the authorities, if they're listening,

00:47:35.699 --> 00:47:37.480
they won't be happy, but the place is gone. So

00:47:37.480 --> 00:47:39.340
we used to have, we could go as high as like

00:47:39.340 --> 00:47:41.880
700, 800, sometimes even 1 ,000 people on Friday

00:47:41.880 --> 00:47:44.960
night. And this is right in the jungle. You trip

00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:47.760
in there, you see nothing but greenery, and then

00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:49.940
you come to this little white house. And back

00:47:49.940 --> 00:47:54.519
then in 2007, it was great. So from that one

00:47:54.519 --> 00:47:58.019
restaurant, Mimolette, we opened another one

00:47:58.019 --> 00:48:00.900
called Kinky, which is in Customs House, still

00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:03.929
stands there in 2010. I spoke to the owners and

00:48:03.929 --> 00:48:06.429
I said, let's do this. And they're like, no,

00:48:06.630 --> 00:48:09.289
it's not the right time. And 2009 was the financial

00:48:09.289 --> 00:48:11.869
crisis coming out. And I said, well, I've got

00:48:11.869 --> 00:48:13.630
to look for a bigger company because I need some

00:48:13.630 --> 00:48:16.130
progression. And then in the end, we went with

00:48:16.130 --> 00:48:18.449
Kinky and then we did some mergers with the Mounted

00:48:18.449 --> 00:48:22.250
Pantry Group, Food Chain with Bedrock. They've

00:48:22.250 --> 00:48:25.269
got a few brands. So that journey with the Big

00:48:25.269 --> 00:48:27.889
Idea Group, it had a few names, right? In the

00:48:27.889 --> 00:48:31.699
end, Refinery Concepts was the name. more frequently

00:48:31.699 --> 00:48:37.739
used in that journey. Seven years, we built the

00:48:37.739 --> 00:48:40.360
business from one restaurant to about 14 venues,

00:48:40.519 --> 00:48:43.219
I think, in seven years through mergers and things

00:48:43.219 --> 00:48:44.599
like that. And I was the general manager for

00:48:44.599 --> 00:48:47.519
the overall business. Even through the mergers

00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:50.559
and acquisition of other companies, then I'll

00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:53.300
take the leadership and get both companies in

00:48:53.300 --> 00:48:55.440
together. So that was a seven years journey.

00:48:55.579 --> 00:48:58.679
And then we sold the business to a... a real

00:48:58.679 --> 00:49:02.719
estate company. And I continued from a GM one

00:49:02.719 --> 00:49:05.380
restaurant. In that seven years, I moved up to

00:49:05.380 --> 00:49:09.380
chief operating officer. Yeah. And then when

00:49:09.380 --> 00:49:16.039
the... Yeah. So they put a CEO in for the interim.

00:49:16.300 --> 00:49:18.940
But as the chief operating officer, I was running

00:49:18.940 --> 00:49:21.179
the business then and then sold it to a real

00:49:21.179 --> 00:49:24.400
estate company. I continued to be the COO for

00:49:24.400 --> 00:49:26.739
a further two years. And they had some F &B that

00:49:26.739 --> 00:49:30.530
came in as well. That size just doubled in the

00:49:30.530 --> 00:49:32.829
last two years of my nine -year journey. Right.

00:49:33.110 --> 00:49:36.769
Yeah. And then, yeah, and then I, nine years

00:49:36.769 --> 00:49:38.610
is a long time, you know. It is, yeah. Yeah.

00:49:38.610 --> 00:49:41.929
And it was hard work. It wasn't easy. And I was

00:49:41.929 --> 00:49:46.730
just, wanted a change, right? And then I thought,

00:49:46.789 --> 00:49:49.449
okay, why don't I take a short break? And by

00:49:49.449 --> 00:49:53.269
the time I really had three kids, no, two kids.

00:49:54.199 --> 00:49:58.260
Yeah. So I said, I'll take a break and three

00:49:58.260 --> 00:50:02.519
kids, I think. My math fails me with the kids.

00:50:02.820 --> 00:50:06.460
My wife will scold me. Yeah. So I said, I'll

00:50:06.460 --> 00:50:09.619
take a break and let's see what's out there.

00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:12.960
Right. And I took that break. They were nice

00:50:12.960 --> 00:50:15.119
enough to give me a three months garden leave,

00:50:15.179 --> 00:50:18.260
relaxing. And then I started panicking. I was

00:50:18.260 --> 00:50:22.300
like, hey, the jobs out there at my level is

00:50:22.300 --> 00:50:24.219
very, very limited, right? Someone has to leave

00:50:24.219 --> 00:50:27.960
the country, retire, or father wants to pass

00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:30.500
to the child and the child doesn't want the business.

00:50:30.980 --> 00:50:33.820
Because there's only like, you know, at chief

00:50:33.820 --> 00:50:35.840
operating level. Yeah, and that level is different

00:50:35.840 --> 00:50:41.159
already. And then I was lucky. Third time. Okay.

00:50:41.619 --> 00:50:45.820
Okay, this time, this time a headhunter came.

00:50:46.280 --> 00:50:48.539
right? First headhunter after all these long

00:50:48.539 --> 00:50:51.079
years. And I said, okay, Singapore business.

00:50:51.300 --> 00:50:54.119
I just asked a few questions and I pretty much

00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:57.320
guessed straight away in the first meeting, which

00:50:57.320 --> 00:51:00.400
company it was. And it was Harry's. Now we're

00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:04.599
going somewhere. Yeah. And I thought, well, nightclubs

00:51:04.599 --> 00:51:06.539
all my life. I went to restaurants and bars.

00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:09.199
We still kept a little bit of, a lot of the bar

00:51:09.199 --> 00:51:11.480
element in it and the entertainment side as well.

00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:13.760
I always had it, even if it was a restaurant.

00:51:14.159 --> 00:51:17.820
And I said, well, Harry's is a hub, sports bar.

00:51:17.940 --> 00:51:21.159
It's a bar, but it's still got a restaurant,

00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:23.760
it's got food. I said, it won't be 3am every

00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:27.139
day. I said, why not? And then started in 1992,

00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:31.159
I think 37, 38 years this year. And I said, you

00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:33.380
know, when I worked at Escobar, Mambo Kings back

00:51:33.380 --> 00:51:36.599
then in 97, I'd stand outside Harry's, right,

00:51:36.659 --> 00:51:39.039
when they had their jazz, live jazz, and it would

00:51:39.039 --> 00:51:41.659
be packed right up to Boat Quay all the way.

00:51:41.719 --> 00:51:43.400
And I couldn't afford to go in to buy Heineken.

00:51:44.779 --> 00:51:47.219
So when the headhunter came, I said, okay, now

00:51:47.219 --> 00:51:49.139
I'm going to go in there and buy a Heideken.

00:51:51.920 --> 00:51:56.119
They had 20 odd bars, right? And I said, well,

00:51:56.239 --> 00:51:59.199
if my next journey is going to be somewhere,

00:51:59.440 --> 00:52:04.340
why not a Singaporean brand? It's iconic. It's

00:52:04.340 --> 00:52:08.219
a household name. I said, okay, I'll take it.

00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:11.960
And then that journey started late 2016 and it

00:52:11.960 --> 00:52:14.829
went for about eight and a half years. When you

00:52:14.829 --> 00:52:20.369
became a CEO, what was your first thought when

00:52:20.369 --> 00:52:22.670
you took over? What were the first few things

00:52:22.670 --> 00:52:26.969
you knew you had to change? Okay, well, now this

00:52:26.969 --> 00:52:30.489
is bringing everything out of the bag now. It's

00:52:30.489 --> 00:52:33.170
okay, I've left. I always knew it was not going

00:52:33.170 --> 00:52:38.889
to be easy. I was going in to replace two...

00:52:39.280 --> 00:52:41.599
two CEOs that they had because the business had

00:52:41.599 --> 00:52:44.219
the pub business and they had the restaurant

00:52:44.219 --> 00:52:46.719
and the boutique hotel business. So I knew it

00:52:46.719 --> 00:52:50.300
was not going to be easy. I tried to find out

00:52:50.300 --> 00:52:53.480
with the team who's been working there because

00:52:53.480 --> 00:52:55.400
this was a private equity company that bought

00:52:55.400 --> 00:53:00.500
the business. How many were from the old regime

00:53:00.500 --> 00:53:04.099
or the private equity regime and it's more on

00:53:04.099 --> 00:53:09.860
the people and the strengths and will they support

00:53:09.860 --> 00:53:14.099
the direction that I would take the brand so

00:53:14.099 --> 00:53:16.500
it's more people think that would have been very

00:53:16.500 --> 00:53:18.880
difficult and then I might have to bring in some

00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:21.679
people I know I have to work with some people

00:53:21.679 --> 00:53:24.099
they're really good and getting them together

00:53:24.099 --> 00:53:27.619
so everywhere you go it's really about it's really

00:53:27.619 --> 00:53:29.780
about the people you know managing the people

00:53:29.780 --> 00:53:31.380
working the people well basically what you're

00:53:31.380 --> 00:53:34.500
saying is that you have got to fight to convince

00:53:34.500 --> 00:53:37.940
the people who are already embedded there yeah

00:53:38.269 --> 00:53:40.829
And you have to consolidate your people to come

00:53:40.829 --> 00:53:44.130
in and to also get things going the way you see

00:53:44.130 --> 00:53:50.590
it. Let's be blunt. Yes. Typical C -suite corporate

00:53:50.590 --> 00:53:53.769
strategy. Yeah, I mean, you see, there are other

00:53:53.769 --> 00:53:55.829
strategies where, okay, you're overpaid, you're

00:53:55.829 --> 00:53:58.050
out, I take a cheaper guy, right? Some people

00:53:58.050 --> 00:54:00.750
do that. But I think on that scale, it's really

00:54:00.750 --> 00:54:03.949
about, do I have the time? And staff strength

00:54:03.949 --> 00:54:06.670
wasn't that big, right? So, Aries as a business

00:54:06.670 --> 00:54:09.760
is about 200. And in corporate office, maybe

00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:12.199
just under 20 or senior management in that sense.

00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:16.400
But the revenue size is such, the business model,

00:54:16.519 --> 00:54:20.699
people say 20 bars, wow. But 20 bars giving you

00:54:20.699 --> 00:54:24.719
a dollar versus 10 bars giving you five. So the

00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:28.519
work's more. The work's more. The returns are

00:54:28.519 --> 00:54:33.500
less. So the ideal structure could not be done

00:54:33.500 --> 00:54:35.900
because our CEO in half years, I didn't hire

00:54:35.900 --> 00:54:39.900
a CFO. I didn't hire a COO. So I had to work

00:54:39.900 --> 00:54:43.960
with heads, director level sort, senior managers

00:54:43.960 --> 00:54:48.360
sort. So a lot of time was spent. And to be fair

00:54:48.360 --> 00:54:50.780
to the business owners, if I took my time to

00:54:50.780 --> 00:54:53.519
get everybody back up to speed and follow the

00:54:53.519 --> 00:54:55.820
direction, it would take a couple of years. So

00:54:55.820 --> 00:54:59.159
another... good way to be, plot a few people

00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:01.260
in there and they learn off their colleagues

00:55:01.260 --> 00:55:03.980
and, oh, this is the way it's done. Mason says

00:55:03.980 --> 00:55:06.340
like this, I know what he's thinking and everybody

00:55:06.340 --> 00:55:10.019
works faster. So it's, I have to think that it'd

00:55:10.019 --> 00:55:12.340
be quite selfish for me to judge if I also don't

00:55:12.340 --> 00:55:15.480
have the time to spare. So how do I compensate

00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:17.659
for that time? So I bring in like -minded people

00:55:17.659 --> 00:55:20.800
that know my style and how to get things done

00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:22.980
and then I plant them in there and then they

00:55:22.980 --> 00:55:25.059
learn off. Okay, so basically you had satellites

00:55:25.059 --> 00:55:29.880
of yourself. Planted in? In different areas.

00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:33.980
Satellites of myself who knows how I think work.

00:55:36.320 --> 00:55:39.619
Paid with you. Yes, yes. In different departments

00:55:39.619 --> 00:55:41.440
so that at least they can get that going. But

00:55:41.440 --> 00:55:43.900
why did you decide not to have a CFO of your

00:55:43.900 --> 00:55:46.699
own and a COO of your own? The business could

00:55:46.699 --> 00:55:48.559
not afford it. The business could not afford

00:55:48.559 --> 00:55:52.739
it. And it was not, actually it was not. really

00:55:52.739 --> 00:55:55.019
necessary. You can actually turn it around the

00:55:55.019 --> 00:55:57.099
other way. Maybe I don't need the CEO role and

00:55:57.099 --> 00:55:59.300
I change myself to GM. You know what I mean?

00:55:59.380 --> 00:56:02.300
Yeah. So these are just titles. Titles. Okay,

00:56:02.340 --> 00:56:05.659
I see. So it doesn't really, it's not important.

00:56:05.980 --> 00:56:09.900
But yeah, so the business had to be run in that

00:56:09.900 --> 00:56:13.539
way in order for it to do well and it had a good

00:56:13.539 --> 00:56:16.119
run while I was there. Yep. Under your leadership,

00:56:16.260 --> 00:56:20.360
Harry's won a ton of awards, named Asia's top

00:56:20.360 --> 00:56:24.800
influential brand. How did you manage to achieve

00:56:24.800 --> 00:56:27.400
that level of recognition and keeping the brand

00:56:27.400 --> 00:56:33.480
on top? Like I said earlier, right? Household

00:56:33.480 --> 00:56:38.329
brand linked. to Singapore. And with these awards,

00:56:38.570 --> 00:56:40.949
I mean... Did you see it that way from the beginning,

00:56:41.010 --> 00:56:43.789
mate? What's that? The idea that it's a household

00:56:43.789 --> 00:56:45.989
brand, making it a neighbourhood kind of thing.

00:56:46.610 --> 00:56:48.849
Yeah. Did you see it from the beginning that

00:56:48.849 --> 00:56:51.130
way? Or did the owners prior to you coming on

00:56:51.130 --> 00:56:53.409
board already saw it that way? No, the owners

00:56:53.409 --> 00:56:56.369
already saw it, right? They saw it. I mean, they

00:56:56.369 --> 00:56:58.289
bought private equity, they buy a business for

00:56:58.289 --> 00:57:01.500
a reason. You know, you buy a business... Before

00:57:01.500 --> 00:57:03.420
you think of making more money, you look at,

00:57:03.460 --> 00:57:06.480
hey, what can I save that the other guy was overspending?

00:57:06.579 --> 00:57:09.440
That's straight away a win, right? So they had

00:57:09.440 --> 00:57:13.340
a good idea. They had a good direction. I added

00:57:13.340 --> 00:57:16.199
to that very little, right? I was aligned with

00:57:16.199 --> 00:57:18.039
their thought process and I had to work through

00:57:18.039 --> 00:57:21.119
it to deliver. And that's how it went. And that's

00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:23.099
how it went. Yeah. And with the awards, you know,

00:57:23.099 --> 00:57:27.840
these awards, they come and go. and different

00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:34.119
categories. I wouldn't take awards too seriously.

00:57:34.320 --> 00:57:38.780
Okay, right. And no offense to the awards. They're

00:57:38.780 --> 00:57:40.980
listening. Yeah, they're all listening. It's

00:57:40.980 --> 00:57:45.559
just timing, place. Some brands don't want to

00:57:45.559 --> 00:57:48.639
participate for their own reasons. So I wouldn't

00:57:48.639 --> 00:57:53.530
say it's 100%. level playing field all the time.

00:57:53.630 --> 00:57:56.309
But what we do appreciate it, we definitely not,

00:57:56.349 --> 00:57:57.670
we're not going to give it back. Okay, here's

00:57:57.670 --> 00:58:02.050
a political correctness. During the pandemic,

00:58:02.150 --> 00:58:07.730
you were a big believer in digital changes and

00:58:07.730 --> 00:58:11.590
working together using digital. Is there any

00:58:11.590 --> 00:58:13.789
particular story about a really tough decision

00:58:13.789 --> 00:58:15.949
you had to make back then and how it shaped?

00:58:17.090 --> 00:58:19.530
How things shaped up? Yeah, I think the digital

00:58:19.530 --> 00:58:22.840
side, it's, Everybody talks about it back then

00:58:22.840 --> 00:58:26.199
during COVID, right? When we were running Harry's,

00:58:26.219 --> 00:58:28.519
we said it's a pub. It's about people, right?

00:58:29.059 --> 00:58:32.059
QR codes won't work, this and that. So not only

00:58:32.059 --> 00:58:34.079
Harry's, a lot of people were forced to use it

00:58:34.079 --> 00:58:36.119
because that was the only way to operate. In

00:58:36.119 --> 00:58:38.000
order for your staff not to talk to a customer

00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:40.639
or else. So everybody had to do it and had to

00:58:40.639 --> 00:58:45.300
do it quick. We were lucky that we had... a good

00:58:45.300 --> 00:58:47.659
portion of food sales with alcohol sales. So

00:58:47.659 --> 00:58:50.059
when liquor restrictions came in and everything,

00:58:50.119 --> 00:58:52.480
the food held in there, we were not known for

00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:55.500
delivery. Now, obviously it went up tenfold from

00:58:55.500 --> 00:58:58.619
where delivery started for Harry's as a brand,

00:58:58.699 --> 00:59:01.000
but that was a very small pie. So it was never

00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:04.739
going to last. But just get the guys busy, you

00:59:04.739 --> 00:59:07.460
know, salary cuts had to come here and there.

00:59:07.500 --> 00:59:10.630
Government helped a lot. And actually, you know,

00:59:10.630 --> 00:59:13.389
a huge shout out to them because you look around

00:59:13.389 --> 00:59:16.070
COVID and other counterparts when I talk about

00:59:16.070 --> 00:59:17.829
in the nightlife scene with other cities and

00:59:17.829 --> 00:59:20.289
everything, I think we probably aced it, you

00:59:20.289 --> 00:59:23.010
know, in terms of the way it was supported. I

00:59:23.010 --> 00:59:24.809
think government just didn't realize, neither

00:59:24.809 --> 00:59:27.050
did any of us, that it was a two -year struggle,

00:59:27.150 --> 00:59:28.909
right? We thought it was a one -year struggle.

00:59:29.090 --> 00:59:33.789
So 2020 was a struggle. Government stepped in

00:59:33.789 --> 00:59:37.880
hard. 21 was another wave. Government couldn't

00:59:37.880 --> 00:59:40.559
stand in that much as 2020. But when you look

00:59:40.559 --> 00:59:42.920
at the two years and you amortize the assistance

00:59:42.920 --> 00:59:45.239
and what you have done, I think it shaped out

00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:47.519
well. Singapore did well. Coming out is a whole

00:59:47.519 --> 00:59:49.900
different story, which let's see if you ask me

00:59:49.900 --> 00:59:51.760
about that. But I think the digitalization part,

00:59:51.860 --> 00:59:55.480
everybody did it. But where I was really busy

00:59:55.480 --> 00:59:57.900
during COVID was for the Nightlife Association

00:59:57.900 --> 01:00:02.969
because we had direct channel. to the authorities

01:00:02.969 --> 01:00:06.190
and to the task force. And that was the hard

01:00:06.190 --> 01:00:09.210
one, sleepless nights, trying to figure out policies,

01:00:09.389 --> 01:00:12.530
trying to challenge certain rules that were set

01:00:12.530 --> 01:00:16.010
in place. So how did you guys fare doing that?

01:00:16.449 --> 01:00:20.809
I think SNBA, Singapore Night Live Business Association,

01:00:20.989 --> 01:00:23.690
I was vice president then. Joseph Ong, who owns

01:00:23.690 --> 01:00:26.489
one group, he was the president there. I think

01:00:26.489 --> 01:00:29.829
we did an excellent job with such short notice.

01:00:30.420 --> 01:00:33.280
Like I said, again, government agencies helped

01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:37.920
great. We were even given lead funding, right?

01:00:37.940 --> 01:00:41.079
The association to manage the exit program, the

01:00:41.079 --> 01:00:44.760
pivot and the pilot, right? Ministry of Law passed

01:00:44.760 --> 01:00:46.780
the law that you could exit your lease with no

01:00:46.780 --> 01:00:48.980
penalties in some conditions. But of course,

01:00:49.000 --> 01:00:50.780
the floodgates, everyone knew would have been

01:00:50.780 --> 01:00:53.920
open. So all the calls came through us. We were

01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:55.900
the secretary and filing everything and making

01:00:55.900 --> 01:00:57.440
sure everything was good enough. And then we

01:00:57.440 --> 01:00:59.420
handed it over to the government for quick decisions.

01:01:00.829 --> 01:01:03.889
The pilot didn't really take off, but the pivot

01:01:03.889 --> 01:01:06.829
did. So if you're a nightclub and you had to

01:01:06.829 --> 01:01:10.070
be a bistro or a cafe, we'd get it done for you.

01:01:10.269 --> 01:01:12.650
If you say that, hey, I don't know how to cook,

01:01:12.730 --> 01:01:15.869
we'll get you a cat -to -kitchen license. Oh,

01:01:15.869 --> 01:01:17.250
my goodness. Put a microwave in there. You have

01:01:17.250 --> 01:01:19.190
to do a lot of work, man. And you have to look

01:01:19.190 --> 01:01:20.769
after your own establishment. My own business.

01:01:21.030 --> 01:01:23.309
And you're going to take care of this. Yes. Wow.

01:01:23.650 --> 01:01:28.789
Both. Oh, man. In two years. Oh, wow. Non -stop.

01:01:29.130 --> 01:01:32.409
Whoa. Right. It's like, I remember this guy named

01:01:32.409 --> 01:01:37.769
Eugnes. He started Elephant Bar. The one in Clarkie?

01:01:37.889 --> 01:01:40.190
No, the one at the time. I don't know where it

01:01:40.190 --> 01:01:42.150
is now, but I remember they started it off around

01:01:42.150 --> 01:01:46.949
Chinatown. Okay. And it was Indian Spirits. And

01:01:46.949 --> 01:01:50.869
just when he opened, boom, COVID. And what he

01:01:50.869 --> 01:01:57.130
did, he pivoted and he became a booze, what do

01:01:57.130 --> 01:02:00.619
you call it? Retail shop. Refinery kind of thing.

01:02:00.619 --> 01:02:02.659
Ah, okay. They make booze. Like a distillery.

01:02:02.820 --> 01:02:05.760
Distillery. Thank you. Thank you. See? This is

01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:09.679
early dementia setting in. Okay. So, distillery.

01:02:09.760 --> 01:02:12.380
He did that. And then he went on deliveries.

01:02:13.159 --> 01:02:16.800
I mean, I got to give full marks to that guy.

01:02:17.019 --> 01:02:20.380
And he's still, he's expanded and he's doing

01:02:20.380 --> 01:02:25.320
great. put on weight, got married. And thriving,

01:02:25.320 --> 01:02:28.559
I think that's fantastic. But just imagine, I'm

01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:31.679
just trying to imagine you guys in the association

01:02:31.679 --> 01:02:36.000
trying to help everyone pivot. Yeah, we had funding

01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:40.000
to hire in. staff on contract. They did most

01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:43.280
of the admin legwork. We get called in for the

01:02:43.280 --> 01:02:46.139
serious stuff, right? If policy changes or any

01:02:46.139 --> 01:02:48.500
discussions are going on, we are always embargoed.

01:02:48.519 --> 01:02:51.400
We can't do anything, can't say anything. Government

01:02:51.400 --> 01:02:54.380
did their best to try and listen and all the

01:02:54.380 --> 01:02:56.840
way we were fighting, right? Even the 1030 license,

01:02:57.219 --> 01:03:01.739
the no music, everything. And then when that

01:03:01.739 --> 01:03:07.500
call came, was it March 2022 or early 2022? And

01:03:07.500 --> 01:03:09.920
they said, okay, we are ready to go back to normal.

01:03:10.119 --> 01:03:12.239
I said, what? Go to 12 midnight liquor license?

01:03:13.400 --> 01:03:16.599
Can the music be at this level? No. Everything

01:03:16.599 --> 01:03:19.320
back to normal. I said, when? I think it was

01:03:19.320 --> 01:03:21.639
first April. Don't quote me, but it's early 2022.

01:03:21.980 --> 01:03:23.920
And I couldn't believe it. I was still working

01:03:23.920 --> 01:03:26.739
on mitigating the rules, right? Like, okay, what

01:03:26.739 --> 01:03:28.800
about this step? And then next step. And then

01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:31.300
we got the government made the announcement and

01:03:31.300 --> 01:03:33.500
everything went back to normal. And that's it.

01:03:33.539 --> 01:03:36.260
Yeah, man. But you know what? From then till

01:03:36.260 --> 01:03:40.860
now, nightlife's dead. Okay. We'll talk about

01:03:40.860 --> 01:03:42.400
that later. Okay. But let me just finish off

01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:44.159
the last question I have about Harry's. Sure.

01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:49.159
Under your leadership, Harry's opened up many

01:03:49.159 --> 01:03:51.960
more outlets, especially when you guys expanded

01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:56.099
overseas, across Asia. My curiosity is this.

01:03:58.420 --> 01:04:01.280
Expanding a local brand, a Singaporean brand.

01:04:01.869 --> 01:04:06.429
In Asia. Jeez. I mean, to me, I would go, if

01:04:06.429 --> 01:04:08.309
I was someone else, I'd go, Singaporean brand

01:04:08.309 --> 01:04:13.130
now. Boring. You'll be surprised. I'm being an

01:04:13.130 --> 01:04:17.750
asshole. Okay. Yes. So, how did you do it? What

01:04:17.750 --> 01:04:20.670
was your, in broad, in broad, yeah, what was

01:04:20.670 --> 01:04:24.409
the strategy? So, it was not, I'll correct that

01:04:24.409 --> 01:04:26.690
statement, it was not my doing under my time,

01:04:26.750 --> 01:04:28.860
right? When I came on board, we already had about

01:04:28.860 --> 01:04:34.099
six in india uh myanmar we had one uh and myanmar's

01:04:34.099 --> 01:04:37.699
up to three now so uh we i was involved with

01:04:37.699 --> 01:04:41.300
the myanmar uh the myanmese burmese uh franchisees

01:04:41.300 --> 01:04:44.019
to get the other two going but you'll be surprised

01:04:44.019 --> 01:04:47.380
a lot of franchise and a lot of brands right

01:04:47.380 --> 01:04:50.739
uh everyone looked to the western world you know

01:04:52.079 --> 01:04:56.760
McDonald's, American brands, Chili's, TGIF, things

01:04:56.760 --> 01:05:00.400
like that. But there's a lot of other parts in

01:05:00.400 --> 01:05:03.420
Asia, Southeast Asia, that actually recognize

01:05:03.420 --> 01:05:09.000
Singapore as a market leader, as a brand, something

01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:12.550
trusted. And they actually welcome brands built

01:05:12.550 --> 01:05:16.349
by us, you know, in their country. This is Nieces

01:05:16.349 --> 01:05:19.710
slapping me across the face. And I mean, it's

01:05:19.710 --> 01:05:22.130
hard to travel to Yangon now, but you go to Yangon,

01:05:22.250 --> 01:05:25.650
you go to Myanmar and you ask them, okay, where's

01:05:25.650 --> 01:05:27.889
the coolest bar and have a drink? They'll bring

01:05:27.889 --> 01:05:29.690
you the Harry's, right? And it'll be packed.

01:05:30.130 --> 01:05:32.670
So different cultures, different way of enjoying

01:05:32.670 --> 01:05:35.969
F &B. But yeah, but I was pleasantly surprised

01:05:35.969 --> 01:05:40.099
on the strength. of anything coming out of Singapore

01:05:40.099 --> 01:05:43.699
recognized by other Southeast Asian counterparts.

01:05:44.139 --> 01:05:50.239
Okay. Thank you. I've been schooled. You mentioned

01:05:50.239 --> 01:05:53.440
the stigma around service jobs in Singapore.

01:05:54.559 --> 01:05:57.360
What do you think needs to change to make young

01:05:57.360 --> 01:05:59.559
people see that the F &B and nightlife industry

01:05:59.559 --> 01:06:02.119
has a great long -term career like the one you

01:06:02.119 --> 01:06:04.179
had? But people will say this, you know, I can

01:06:04.179 --> 01:06:06.820
tell you, I can hear it. But Chris, those were

01:06:06.820 --> 01:06:11.300
different times. Okay. Over to you. The times

01:06:11.300 --> 01:06:14.219
can only get better, right? Like a positive.

01:06:14.559 --> 01:06:16.900
I mean, I'm not directly in the industry now,

01:06:17.000 --> 01:06:20.380
even for myself, but what I'm doing now with

01:06:20.380 --> 01:06:22.760
place management and venue management, I'm still

01:06:22.760 --> 01:06:25.960
in doing F &B. And it actually covers a lot more.

01:06:26.079 --> 01:06:29.460
So how do you change that mindset? I don't think

01:06:29.460 --> 01:06:33.400
there's just one thing, right? There are a lot

01:06:33.400 --> 01:06:36.920
of levers, lots of dots to be connected all at

01:06:36.920 --> 01:06:39.519
the same time. And I'll get to, I'm sure you

01:06:39.519 --> 01:06:41.619
asked me about the nightlife scene dying now,

01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:47.159
but you identify 10 things, you cannot fix one

01:06:47.159 --> 01:06:50.400
or two. All 10 has to be fixed at the same time

01:06:50.400 --> 01:06:54.519
or within a period set quickly. The problem we

01:06:54.519 --> 01:06:58.500
have is we talk about things, let's get the kids

01:06:58.500 --> 01:07:01.239
into school, right? So the ITs are doing a great

01:07:01.239 --> 01:07:04.199
job, the tertiary schools, the polys on hospitality,

01:07:04.519 --> 01:07:10.409
right? But then after that, the internship, private

01:07:10.409 --> 01:07:13.230
sector tries to do it, the retention and the

01:07:13.230 --> 01:07:16.789
tracking of the staff, right? Because if they

01:07:16.789 --> 01:07:19.769
don't leave stories and start off with, I started

01:07:19.769 --> 01:07:22.210
off with a very bad school story, right? If I

01:07:22.210 --> 01:07:26.110
was starting off with, I went to IT at this age

01:07:26.110 --> 01:07:28.829
and learned, you see the difference? Yeah, yeah,

01:07:28.849 --> 01:07:31.329
yeah. So the marketing out there, sometimes it's

01:07:31.329 --> 01:07:33.670
lost in so much info that's out there, right?

01:07:33.690 --> 01:07:37.519
So it's really school, private sector. And government

01:07:37.519 --> 01:07:39.679
coming in. And on the school side, it's harder

01:07:39.679 --> 01:07:41.760
for the school, right? Because you got the student,

01:07:41.860 --> 01:07:46.000
then you got the parent, right? And a lot of

01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:48.519
parents will tell their kids not to go to work.

01:07:49.239 --> 01:07:53.780
And especially F &B. And sometimes my HR gets

01:07:53.780 --> 01:07:56.000
calls from parents that, oh, my daughter's salaries,

01:07:56.079 --> 01:07:58.239
how's it coming today? Why didn't it come after

01:07:58.239 --> 01:08:00.639
midnight? After midnight, you know, my daughter

01:08:00.639 --> 01:08:03.380
can't come to work or my son can't. So a lot

01:08:03.380 --> 01:08:05.940
of the kids, even there's no push factor to go

01:08:05.940 --> 01:08:09.789
on and go to work. to earn their own money. Plus,

01:08:10.090 --> 01:08:14.250
parents also are not letting them be independent

01:08:14.250 --> 01:08:17.810
at 17 and 18 to talk to HR, direct, go ask, why

01:08:17.810 --> 01:08:21.050
is my pay late? It's not hard, right? So it's

01:08:21.050 --> 01:08:25.569
a whole kampung that has to come together. Exactly.

01:08:25.649 --> 01:08:28.869
But in my opinion, I always believe in this,

01:08:28.909 --> 01:08:32.159
that when you have all these... mechanisms happening

01:08:32.159 --> 01:08:34.880
in the schools you know and trying to advocate

01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:38.720
for fmb and service jobs even music for that

01:08:38.720 --> 01:08:41.020
matter yeah i've heard lots of crap coming out

01:08:41.020 --> 01:08:43.399
of people's mouths about do they ever be a musician

01:08:43.399 --> 01:08:45.960
you cannot earn a living i heard even kids telling

01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:49.319
me that right right and i think of all these

01:08:49.319 --> 01:08:53.260
mechanisms the one telling the one that is most

01:08:53.260 --> 01:08:58.220
influential would be the home You know, I'm sorry,

01:08:58.380 --> 01:09:02.079
but I'm not sorry. Fuck that. It's the parents.

01:09:02.399 --> 01:09:06.239
Wake the hell up. You know, really, because it's

01:09:06.239 --> 01:09:11.619
true. It's true. I've had Kuapo here just a couple

01:09:11.619 --> 01:09:15.039
of days ago. She teaches. Okay. She has this

01:09:15.039 --> 01:09:18.439
fantastic school. Yeah. And she teaches performance

01:09:18.439 --> 01:09:22.180
and singing and voice. And kids, you know? Yeah.

01:09:22.460 --> 01:09:26.380
And she told me, I mean, to this day, she told

01:09:26.380 --> 01:09:28.539
me, why on earth would anyone want to learn singing?

01:09:28.659 --> 01:09:31.159
Someone asked her that. I mean, why the hell

01:09:31.159 --> 01:09:36.500
not? You know, can't earn money. And this is

01:09:36.500 --> 01:09:40.380
where, I tell you, society, I think, has to change.

01:09:40.979 --> 01:09:47.899
It's a long shot. But, you see, it's a, I mean,

01:09:47.920 --> 01:09:50.689
when you look at it, right, I think, I mean,

01:09:50.710 --> 01:09:52.810
I'm no expert, right? But when you look at how

01:09:52.810 --> 01:09:55.270
developed Singapore is and where it is today,

01:09:55.470 --> 01:09:58.590
right? People tend to say that, you know, well,

01:09:58.689 --> 01:10:01.189
out of the 20 things that you can do, everybody's

01:10:01.189 --> 01:10:03.789
got to go for the top 10, right? People buy houses

01:10:03.789 --> 01:10:05.449
next to the school so the kids can go, right?

01:10:05.569 --> 01:10:07.470
It's the same thing with jobs, you know? Yeah,

01:10:07.470 --> 01:10:09.670
but it's mindsets change. Mindsets will change.

01:10:10.550 --> 01:10:13.430
Culturally, we need to get better. Culturally,

01:10:13.670 --> 01:10:16.630
culturally. Culturally more savvy, you know?

01:10:17.930 --> 01:10:20.050
And since we're talking about that, you're right.

01:10:20.109 --> 01:10:23.270
I'm going to talk about the demise of our nightlife.

01:10:26.149 --> 01:10:29.989
Besides the high rents, what are the main things

01:10:29.989 --> 01:10:33.590
you think are causing fewer people to go out

01:10:33.590 --> 01:10:38.430
to clubs and bars these days? Okay. Well, we

01:10:38.430 --> 01:10:40.750
always know rent is going to be number one, right?

01:10:40.829 --> 01:10:42.850
So you said besides the rent. So put that aside.

01:10:42.890 --> 01:10:45.289
We all know. Everyone talks about that alone.

01:10:45.960 --> 01:10:47.939
The other factors, I would think. Yeah, I think

01:10:47.939 --> 01:10:50.920
with the young now, I mean, during COVID as well,

01:10:50.960 --> 01:10:53.739
right? I think we've lost a huge gap, right?

01:10:54.300 --> 01:10:56.819
If you were 20 years old during COVID, you haven't

01:10:56.819 --> 01:10:59.520
partied really yet, right? So then you work your

01:10:59.520 --> 01:11:01.520
way backwards, right? Every two years, 20 to

01:11:01.520 --> 01:11:06.899
18, 18 to 16, 16 to 14. So back then in 2020,

01:11:07.020 --> 01:11:10.380
if you're 14 years old, you know, look at where

01:11:10.380 --> 01:11:13.920
you'd be now. night clubbing or meeting friends

01:11:13.920 --> 01:11:16.000
outside. It's not a thing. It's not a thing,

01:11:16.020 --> 01:11:18.159
right? You didn't have to say, okay, I'm 18.

01:11:18.279 --> 01:11:20.260
I got to go to Zug. My brother used to do that.

01:11:20.319 --> 01:11:23.859
So I have to queue up and I got to get that Long

01:11:23.859 --> 01:11:26.859
Island tea jug. So there's no pass down, right?

01:11:26.939 --> 01:11:31.720
And we were very heavily involved with tech during

01:11:31.720 --> 01:11:33.840
COVID to connect, right? Your Zoom, your Teams,

01:11:33.979 --> 01:11:36.600
your everything else. And with that higher take

01:11:36.600 --> 01:11:38.359
-up rate and with social media and everything

01:11:38.359 --> 01:11:40.739
else that's out there, the content gets fed to

01:11:40.739 --> 01:11:44.920
you right in front of you. So we had to Zoom

01:11:44.920 --> 01:11:47.340
to connect to friends. And I got out with a lot

01:11:47.340 --> 01:11:49.239
of friends I haven't seen in 20, 30 years. It

01:11:49.239 --> 01:11:52.739
was great. But then now you come back to... Normal

01:11:52.739 --> 01:11:56.079
living. Yeah, to normal living. And a lot of

01:11:56.079 --> 01:11:57.619
people are not making appointments to go out.

01:11:57.659 --> 01:12:00.619
Now, I'm not saying go out to a nightclub. I'm

01:12:00.619 --> 01:12:03.779
just saying go out. That's it, just go out, eat

01:12:03.779 --> 01:12:07.340
bak kut teh, dessert. And I believe in precinct,

01:12:07.420 --> 01:12:10.460
I believe in the nighttime economy. I might come

01:12:10.460 --> 01:12:12.840
from the nightlife, but if the nighttime economy

01:12:12.840 --> 01:12:15.260
doesn't work, it doesn't work. Now, if we take

01:12:15.260 --> 01:12:17.300
a walk down Ballestier Road, let's say we go

01:12:17.300 --> 01:12:19.279
2 a .m. today, let's see how many bak kut teh

01:12:19.279 --> 01:12:21.960
stores or buntiang ki, chicken rice, or anything

01:12:21.960 --> 01:12:25.640
supper is left. Let's see. compared to, sorry,

01:12:25.819 --> 01:12:29.859
20 years ago or 15 years ago. So it's slowly

01:12:29.859 --> 01:12:32.779
been depleting. After COVID, it became even harder.

01:12:33.020 --> 01:12:36.279
So I think it's not, besides nightlife, it's

01:12:36.279 --> 01:12:38.979
just activity. The fact of meeting somewhere

01:12:38.979 --> 01:12:42.699
and doing something with others. I think that's

01:12:42.699 --> 01:12:45.760
the real struggle. And then you get that locally

01:12:45.760 --> 01:12:52.850
from your patrons, right? And then, Good for

01:12:52.850 --> 01:12:55.789
all of us. Our currency is very strong, right?

01:12:55.930 --> 01:12:57.930
And everybody says, well, now we all got to keep

01:12:57.930 --> 01:13:00.170
going to Malaysia, Bintan, Batam, whatever we

01:13:00.170 --> 01:13:02.289
haven't done in so long, we have that opportunity.

01:13:03.010 --> 01:13:04.869
Singapore is getting a bit tight, crowded, we

01:13:04.869 --> 01:13:07.590
are stressed, we need to go out. So then people

01:13:07.590 --> 01:13:09.850
tighten their belts because they know, okay,

01:13:09.909 --> 01:13:12.670
in two weeks, I'll be in KL. I'll party there.

01:13:12.869 --> 01:13:15.649
I don't have to party now. So number one, it's

01:13:15.649 --> 01:13:19.090
not part of your culture to catch up so much.

01:13:19.210 --> 01:13:21.029
Number two, you're saving up because your money

01:13:21.029 --> 01:13:23.510
is going to go very far elsewhere. You have that

01:13:23.510 --> 01:13:25.310
good time and then you come back. Come back,

01:13:25.329 --> 01:13:27.229
you recover as well. You save a little bit more.

01:13:27.430 --> 01:13:30.550
So instead of getting you for, hey, Chris, what

01:13:30.550 --> 01:13:31.770
are you doing for the month? It's more like,

01:13:31.810 --> 01:13:33.210
Chris, what are you doing for the week? Because

01:13:33.210 --> 01:13:35.149
the other three weeks, right? Either you're recovering

01:13:35.149 --> 01:13:38.289
from cost and things like that because... Cost

01:13:38.289 --> 01:13:40.569
of living is also high in Singapore, right? So

01:13:40.569 --> 01:13:44.329
that's another point. The next point is, who

01:13:44.329 --> 01:13:48.270
can afford transport to go home? If you take

01:13:48.270 --> 01:13:50.430
a grab from Clarkie, you come back here, Tampines,

01:13:50.569 --> 01:13:54.310
you are lucky to get something around $35. And

01:13:54.310 --> 01:13:56.109
it's not like before, you know, uncle, I give

01:13:56.109 --> 01:13:59.470
you extra three stops, four stops. You know,

01:13:59.470 --> 01:14:01.449
you try to put two stops, no grab comes to you.

01:14:01.529 --> 01:14:05.489
So transport is another thing. And the night

01:14:05.489 --> 01:14:08.680
rider and the late train, Even though it doesn't

01:14:08.680 --> 01:14:11.100
contribute to thousands of people out at night,

01:14:11.180 --> 01:14:15.359
because transport department says that, you know,

01:14:15.420 --> 01:14:17.760
running costs that we're not making, and it hasn't

01:14:17.760 --> 01:14:19.680
opened since post -COVID. Yeah, night riders

01:14:19.680 --> 01:14:23.279
gone. Yeah. So this is going back to the same

01:14:23.279 --> 01:14:25.420
thing, right? People say don't go into F &B jobs,

01:14:25.659 --> 01:14:28.119
right? Same thing. If you want to fix this or

01:14:28.119 --> 01:14:30.819
address this, you got to identify the 10 points

01:14:30.819 --> 01:14:33.319
and all 10 points got to... got to be addressed

01:14:33.319 --> 01:14:35.979
at the same time. So that's the tricky part.

01:14:36.039 --> 01:14:37.939
And the association only can do one or two things.

01:14:38.180 --> 01:14:41.239
Now people ask me, oh, clock key, boat key, now

01:14:41.239 --> 01:14:43.539
you got 4 a .m. Is the one hour going to help?

01:14:43.920 --> 01:14:46.560
Actually, that was my last gift to the association

01:14:46.560 --> 01:14:49.100
and to the industry. It's not. One hour is not

01:14:49.100 --> 01:14:51.300
going to help. But it's one of the dots of many

01:14:51.300 --> 01:14:55.380
dots. So as an association and all volunteers,

01:14:55.800 --> 01:14:58.460
what can you do? I mean, if there's 10 points

01:14:58.460 --> 01:15:00.239
and somebody gives you one, you take it. You

01:15:00.239 --> 01:15:04.060
won't say no. Some people might. get things out

01:15:04.060 --> 01:15:07.340
of it but I think where people forget going back

01:15:07.340 --> 01:15:12.760
to this one hour extension is Zouk anchors Clarkie

01:15:12.760 --> 01:15:15.279
because after the redevelopment nightlife's well

01:15:15.279 --> 01:15:18.239
pretty much non -existent there can that feed

01:15:18.239 --> 01:15:20.640
off whoever's still around there would something

01:15:20.640 --> 01:15:23.720
a makan place open nearby would that help balance

01:15:23.720 --> 01:15:27.640
off the grab rights because you know more cars

01:15:27.640 --> 01:15:31.140
will come out you know And people are going out

01:15:31.140 --> 01:15:33.399
with that extra one hour. Nobody has to rush

01:15:33.399 --> 01:15:36.180
out at 2 a .m. before 3 a .m. So would that help?

01:15:36.260 --> 01:15:38.920
Only time can tell. If you look at BoatKey, BoatKey

01:15:38.920 --> 01:15:41.119
is even more interesting. The one hour extension

01:15:41.119 --> 01:15:45.560
gives it to people with a current liquor license

01:15:45.560 --> 01:15:48.260
and whether they want to stay out late. But BoatKey

01:15:48.260 --> 01:15:51.520
is in a moratorium zone for the last 19 years,

01:15:51.640 --> 01:15:55.960
which means you cannot change your license. So

01:15:55.960 --> 01:15:57.560
even if you're going to vote a jazz musician

01:15:57.560 --> 01:15:59.039
in your restaurant, they say, sorry, you're a

01:15:59.039 --> 01:16:01.159
restaurant. You cannot have. You can't even apply.

01:16:01.539 --> 01:16:03.979
So now that's been lifted. So applications can

01:16:03.979 --> 01:16:06.439
be considered. Now we go back to how you said

01:16:06.439 --> 01:16:09.460
about what elephant did you say earlier in Chinatown?

01:16:09.739 --> 01:16:11.939
The elephant bar. The elephant bar, right? He

01:16:11.939 --> 01:16:14.560
became a distillery. He did during COVID. Same

01:16:14.560 --> 01:16:17.220
thing here. Now we need restaurants and F &B

01:16:17.220 --> 01:16:19.819
operators out there saying, well, no license

01:16:19.819 --> 01:16:21.880
could be changed and now it can be considered.

01:16:22.220 --> 01:16:24.640
So how do I make my dining experience different?

01:16:25.119 --> 01:16:27.420
My nightclub is so boring. How do I make it different?

01:16:27.579 --> 01:16:29.460
My bar needs something else. How do I make it

01:16:29.460 --> 01:16:31.859
different? A lot of people fail to realize that

01:16:31.859 --> 01:16:34.359
legally you need licenses for a lot of things.

01:16:34.819 --> 01:16:37.159
Now there's a chance to change. Luckily, the

01:16:37.159 --> 01:16:40.340
Singapore River One, which is a precinct, a business

01:16:40.340 --> 01:16:43.359
improvement district there, and they're going

01:16:43.359 --> 01:16:45.500
around trying to get all the tenants, you know,

01:16:45.520 --> 01:16:48.590
listen to their ideas. You need the whole kampung

01:16:48.590 --> 01:16:50.909
to work together. Yeah. Basically, you know,

01:16:50.949 --> 01:16:54.569
you cannot be in an area where your bar is thriving

01:16:54.569 --> 01:16:57.090
and the next door guy is empty and you're happy.

01:16:57.289 --> 01:16:59.470
It's only a matter of time you will die. What

01:16:59.470 --> 01:17:01.550
you just told me, all that you just told me,

01:17:01.569 --> 01:17:06.390
I mean, it echoes the same as what Dennis Fu

01:17:06.390 --> 01:17:09.449
had told me on my season premiere. And I also

01:17:09.449 --> 01:17:15.689
agree. I think we've somehow lost our DNA. I

01:17:15.689 --> 01:17:19.130
mean, for me, my interest is music. Right. And

01:17:19.130 --> 01:17:22.210
without nightlife, our musicians can't thrive.

01:17:22.470 --> 01:17:24.970
No platform. Yeah. And we both, we all agreed

01:17:24.970 --> 01:17:29.729
on that show that it's an ecosystem. We no longer

01:17:29.729 --> 01:17:31.810
have a supper club. We no longer have people

01:17:31.810 --> 01:17:33.909
going out late at night to have, let's go makan,

01:17:34.090 --> 01:17:37.430
you know. And look at Cloud Key, Hai Ti Lau,

01:17:37.609 --> 01:17:41.630
just shut down, you know. It's, and well, yeah,

01:17:41.710 --> 01:17:44.979
transportation, late at night. We used to have

01:17:44.979 --> 01:17:47.060
the night, what's it called? The night owl bus

01:17:47.060 --> 01:17:49.140
service or something like that. Night rider.

01:17:49.439 --> 01:17:52.239
I forgot the name of it, but yeah. Well, there

01:17:52.239 --> 01:17:55.659
was also one by the SBS. Okay. And we hardly

01:17:55.659 --> 01:17:57.920
ever thought about, you know, or worried about

01:17:57.920 --> 01:18:01.239
coming home after midnight. Who cares, right?

01:18:01.739 --> 01:18:05.760
And yes, I also agree that the Xennial generation,

01:18:05.939 --> 01:18:08.779
for those caught, you know, during the COVID

01:18:08.779 --> 01:18:12.359
pandemic. Some of them, if they could wear masks

01:18:12.359 --> 01:18:20.140
permanently, they would. Excuse me, it's a sad

01:18:20.140 --> 01:18:23.859
predicament that we got ourselves in. Yeah. And

01:18:23.859 --> 01:18:28.420
I worry about our tourism. I worry about our

01:18:28.420 --> 01:18:30.539
nightlife. I worry especially for our performers

01:18:30.539 --> 01:18:35.159
and musicians. Really, it's something that is

01:18:35.159 --> 01:18:40.390
very close to my heart. Now that we're talking

01:18:40.390 --> 01:18:43.590
about the two keys along the Singapore River,

01:18:43.729 --> 01:18:46.090
let's talk about something close to the home.

01:18:47.369 --> 01:18:53.130
Neighborhoods. Neighborhoods, local communities

01:18:53.130 --> 01:18:55.649
within a neighborhood. Yes. The authorities.

01:18:56.630 --> 01:18:59.869
And then your neighborhood bar, where there's

01:18:59.869 --> 01:19:02.409
got music. Right. And the complaints you get

01:19:02.409 --> 01:19:07.510
for noise. Are you going to get me in trouble?

01:19:07.750 --> 01:19:11.449
That one really gets on my tits, let me tell

01:19:11.449 --> 01:19:14.710
you, man. I can't stand it when people try to

01:19:14.710 --> 01:19:18.729
be so smug. I have got people who would say to

01:19:18.729 --> 01:19:20.210
me, but Chris, you've got to be on the other

01:19:20.210 --> 01:19:23.970
flip side of the coin. Yeah, I can. But there

01:19:23.970 --> 01:19:27.590
is a word that I feel that is missing in Singapore's

01:19:27.590 --> 01:19:31.170
conversations, and that word is called tolerance.

01:19:33.229 --> 01:19:36.300
Instead of complaining, celebrate. We complain

01:19:36.300 --> 01:19:39.119
about everything. Now, let's be fair here. If

01:19:39.119 --> 01:19:42.399
you have a, and I, again, I'm talking about this.

01:19:42.439 --> 01:19:44.680
I feel like a bloody parrot, but I'll, you know,

01:19:44.699 --> 01:19:48.119
it's like a Malay wedding, you got kompangs.

01:19:48.460 --> 01:19:50.260
Yes. Then you've got Chinese New Year, you've

01:19:50.260 --> 01:19:52.979
got dragon dance, lion dance, the drums, right?

01:19:53.060 --> 01:19:55.579
You can complain about smells of curry being

01:19:55.579 --> 01:19:59.020
cooked. You have all kinds of stuff. Everyone

01:19:59.020 --> 01:20:03.680
is so damn freaking entitled. But we forget to

01:20:03.680 --> 01:20:06.569
tolerate. We forget to celebrate. I would go

01:20:06.569 --> 01:20:08.890
and see if I can get an invitation to the Malay

01:20:08.890 --> 01:20:16.529
wedding and makan. I would try to enjoy and celebrate

01:20:16.529 --> 01:20:19.069
other people and celebrate the things and be

01:20:19.069 --> 01:20:21.489
grateful for the things we have in the neighborhood.

01:20:22.029 --> 01:20:25.850
And I'm saddened because it only shows, besides

01:20:25.850 --> 01:20:28.770
us being entitled and selfish, I'm saddened that

01:20:28.770 --> 01:20:32.229
the music has been lost in the Singaporean DNA.

01:20:33.250 --> 01:20:36.939
Yep. So what do you think? When you got a license,

01:20:37.079 --> 01:20:39.600
an entertainment license that tells you, I entered

01:20:39.600 --> 01:20:44.779
11, and some clown comes in and makes a lot of

01:20:44.779 --> 01:20:48.600
noise about your noise, and I just cannot understand

01:20:48.600 --> 01:20:54.859
how one could judge decibels from where. If you

01:20:54.859 --> 01:20:57.359
go into the place, naturally your decibel levels

01:20:57.359 --> 01:20:59.840
will go up if you take it from wherever you're

01:20:59.840 --> 01:21:02.859
living, from where you're domiciled. then you

01:21:02.859 --> 01:21:05.439
show us proof of that. But, I mean, I don't own

01:21:05.439 --> 01:21:08.539
any bars. Yeah. But I can just think that it's

01:21:08.539 --> 01:21:11.180
ridiculous because the people who do enjoy it

01:21:11.180 --> 01:21:17.420
gets watered down entertainment. Yeah. I mean,

01:21:17.460 --> 01:21:21.119
it's a, you know, it's a tough one. Believe it

01:21:21.119 --> 01:21:25.779
or not, believe it or not, if you take out violence

01:21:25.779 --> 01:21:29.340
or fights in nightlife around the world, most

01:21:29.340 --> 01:21:31.460
cities will tell you the number one issue that

01:21:32.029 --> 01:21:35.270
they have and this is cities because Singapore

01:21:35.270 --> 01:21:37.529
is so small so even our suburbs also the whole

01:21:37.529 --> 01:21:40.850
country city is actually noise right and this

01:21:40.850 --> 01:21:43.689
goes it's not New York London all the same because

01:21:43.689 --> 01:21:46.409
I go for this global forums and it's always noise

01:21:46.409 --> 01:21:50.829
if you look at our NEA chart and don't quote

01:21:50.829 --> 01:21:53.510
me I could be wrong got more about this I know

01:21:53.510 --> 01:21:57.369
I don't know man depends on what you say our

01:21:57.369 --> 01:22:01.250
decibel grading I believe my voice would be louder

01:22:01.609 --> 01:22:05.170
uh if i was to talk loudly you know so so the

01:22:05.170 --> 01:22:08.390
reading number the distance where you actually

01:22:08.390 --> 01:22:11.989
place the recorder and you know so many years

01:22:11.989 --> 01:22:14.949
and everywhere i've gone that there will be some

01:22:14.949 --> 01:22:18.649
noise issue uh sound does travel through a base

01:22:18.649 --> 01:22:21.279
you know Sometimes a door opens, something leaks.

01:22:21.739 --> 01:22:23.979
It's one of those things, you know, you try to

01:22:23.979 --> 01:22:26.239
trace water leaking down from your roof, you

01:22:26.239 --> 01:22:28.680
know, you got to put blue water to, yeah, it's

01:22:28.680 --> 01:22:31.260
like that. It's like that. And the experts will

01:22:31.260 --> 01:22:35.180
tell you it's like that. So I look at the business,

01:22:35.359 --> 01:22:38.699
yes, valid license, but we also have to be very

01:22:38.699 --> 01:22:42.100
mindful that there's a clause that says to operate

01:22:42.100 --> 01:22:45.039
it without disturbing others. Very gray, the

01:22:45.039 --> 01:22:49.739
area. So if keep knocking, by a resident or the

01:22:49.739 --> 01:22:51.880
public, right? You know, Singapore, we had to

01:22:51.880 --> 01:22:55.279
go MP, meet the people session. Then the authorities

01:22:55.279 --> 01:22:59.560
sometimes are forced to change a license unfairly.

01:22:59.560 --> 01:23:01.479
I would call it unfairly, but they'll say it

01:23:01.479 --> 01:23:03.420
fairly, like time to expire, right? Sorry, I

01:23:03.420 --> 01:23:05.220
cannot give again. And they'll find a reason.

01:23:05.380 --> 01:23:08.560
So we don't want to see that happen. Now, I won't

01:23:08.560 --> 01:23:10.340
talk about the resident or the public complaining.

01:23:10.439 --> 01:23:13.500
I'll get to that. So how do we mitigate this,

01:23:13.619 --> 01:23:15.659
Chris? This is the... So what I'm trying to get

01:23:15.659 --> 01:23:20.500
at is every... on sound is unique. And the issue

01:23:20.500 --> 01:23:23.840
we have is the complainer and the person playing,

01:23:24.159 --> 01:23:28.180
there's no direct link or there's no mediator

01:23:28.180 --> 01:23:30.720
in between. Usually the mediator will be the

01:23:30.720 --> 01:23:33.520
landlord. They would be the worst mediators.

01:23:33.760 --> 01:23:37.140
They take the rent and that's it. And interpretation

01:23:37.140 --> 01:23:40.100
of law, they don't want to get involved. And

01:23:40.100 --> 01:23:44.000
SNBA, I mean, if you know this person, ask them

01:23:44.000 --> 01:23:45.800
to give us a call, maybe I'll send someone there

01:23:45.800 --> 01:23:49.260
to... In Australia, you know, we had one guy,

01:23:49.300 --> 01:23:51.859
he's on the 20th floor and my salt nightclub

01:23:51.859 --> 01:23:54.939
is just one door, non -stop on this noise. In

01:23:54.939 --> 01:23:57.020
the end, we paid for double glazed glass and

01:23:57.020 --> 01:23:58.979
he said, thank you very much. And the case got

01:23:58.979 --> 01:24:02.640
closed. So it's really about how can we solve

01:24:02.640 --> 01:24:05.579
it? Because we want to play music till that 11

01:24:05.579 --> 01:24:09.939
or the 10, 30, whatever that license is. Which

01:24:09.939 --> 01:24:12.420
came first, the chicken or the egg? My club here,

01:24:12.500 --> 01:24:15.079
you come stay here, you make noise. you can't

01:24:15.079 --> 01:24:17.300
tell that to the only landlord how landlord you

01:24:17.300 --> 01:24:20.560
know so everyone can talk about it but people

01:24:20.560 --> 01:24:22.720
have to be serious about one thing to resolve

01:24:22.720 --> 01:24:26.079
you can't fix it i resolved the two parties right

01:24:26.079 --> 01:24:29.720
the middle person is the is the key so finding

01:24:29.720 --> 01:24:32.779
that middle person is is not easy not easy and

01:24:32.779 --> 01:24:35.100
that's why we work with the authorities and with

01:24:35.100 --> 01:24:37.539
government on certain areas because as an association

01:24:37.539 --> 01:24:40.500
all we do is cover the gap of that missing middle

01:24:40.500 --> 01:24:44.670
person But it can be resolved. And I'll tell

01:24:44.670 --> 01:24:46.909
you now, I work with the police very closely

01:24:46.909 --> 01:24:50.270
on a lot of issues. And they're very pragmatic.

01:24:50.770 --> 01:24:55.270
They understand commerce as well. And they want

01:24:55.270 --> 01:24:58.970
industries to thrive so long as safety elements

01:24:58.970 --> 01:25:01.529
are met. Things like noise and all, there's no

01:25:01.529 --> 01:25:04.149
safety issue to it, but it still complains. So

01:25:04.149 --> 01:25:07.329
their hands are also tied when pushed to a corner

01:25:07.329 --> 01:25:09.760
with a... Hey, I've been telling this 10 times.

01:25:09.859 --> 01:25:12.420
You cannot resolve. So the last thing you want

01:25:12.420 --> 01:25:13.800
to do, right, is tell your parents, I'm going

01:25:13.800 --> 01:25:15.659
to be a cop, you know, super cop and everything.

01:25:15.779 --> 01:25:17.859
And every day you go down there complaining about

01:25:17.859 --> 01:25:20.340
noise, you know. So the police don't want to

01:25:20.340 --> 01:25:22.359
do it as well. And they don't find joy in it.

01:25:22.739 --> 01:25:25.359
So it really, we have to find that middle person

01:25:25.359 --> 01:25:27.939
to sort of fix it. But neighborhood pubs and

01:25:27.939 --> 01:25:32.199
bars must coexist with residents. It's important.

01:25:32.479 --> 01:25:34.560
I mean, you look at the latest pickleball case

01:25:34.560 --> 01:25:36.420
now. Now you can't play pickleball after a certain

01:25:36.420 --> 01:25:41.880
time. And do you know our music for residential

01:25:41.880 --> 01:25:44.100
or outdoor and everything, 10 .30, it used to

01:25:44.100 --> 01:25:46.399
be midnight. That got changed, I think, just

01:25:46.399 --> 01:25:48.819
before COVID. Maybe five, six, seven years ago

01:25:48.819 --> 01:25:52.899
only. So if this keeps going on, it's going to

01:25:52.899 --> 01:25:55.000
be hard. Maybe shout out to the government that,

01:25:55.039 --> 01:25:57.640
hey, how do we let everyone sort of coexist?

01:25:57.960 --> 01:26:00.039
Now, if they say move the neighborhood pub, all

01:26:00.039 --> 01:26:03.239
go into the city, it's also not really a solution.

01:26:03.560 --> 01:26:07.220
Because some people and residents are used to.

01:26:08.170 --> 01:26:11.149
So it's a tough one. I don't have the right answer

01:26:11.149 --> 01:26:12.789
for it. No, no, no. I don't expect you to have

01:26:12.789 --> 01:26:13.890
an answer. I just want to hear your opinion.

01:26:14.409 --> 01:26:19.149
As a revitalizer today, on a hypothesis that

01:26:19.149 --> 01:26:23.729
you took on, a struggling night spot today, what

01:26:23.729 --> 01:26:27.430
would be your top three moves to get more customers

01:26:27.430 --> 01:26:30.810
to the door, solve the transport problem, and

01:26:30.810 --> 01:26:33.090
deal with high operating costs? What would you

01:26:33.090 --> 01:26:36.840
do? Anything I say will be the same thing everybody

01:26:36.840 --> 01:26:39.859
would do. You know, I think first, first I need

01:26:39.859 --> 01:26:41.979
the crowd. I need to identify where this crowd

01:26:41.979 --> 01:26:44.140
is coming from and what are they really after,

01:26:44.279 --> 01:26:47.279
right? Because if you're just there to eat and

01:26:47.279 --> 01:26:49.880
drink, you can go anywhere, right? If you're

01:26:49.880 --> 01:26:52.920
there for the DJ, fine. But if the DJ is not

01:26:52.920 --> 01:26:54.680
there every day, then what? There's something

01:26:54.680 --> 01:26:57.420
that goes deeper than that. What is it? If you're

01:26:57.420 --> 01:26:59.100
there for the band, play every Friday, you come

01:26:59.100 --> 01:27:00.640
every Friday. Okay, I get it. But there's something.

01:27:00.760 --> 01:27:03.619
What is it? Who do you connect with? So really

01:27:03.619 --> 01:27:05.399
trying to understand the profile of that guest.

01:27:05.659 --> 01:27:08.680
Are they kids? Are they students that, you know,

01:27:08.699 --> 01:27:11.020
after Wednesday and Thursday, they like to hang

01:27:11.020 --> 01:27:13.539
out and this venue becomes the hangout place.

01:27:13.819 --> 01:27:16.439
Not a bar. It's just a venue. It's a hangout

01:27:16.439 --> 01:27:19.300
place. It becomes a second home. That's it. Like

01:27:19.300 --> 01:27:21.000
a Starbucks, but it just happens to be in this

01:27:21.000 --> 01:27:23.899
place I just made, right? Yeah. Okay, so besides

01:27:23.899 --> 01:27:26.640
the students, then who else? Who does what after

01:27:26.640 --> 01:27:30.520
work? So trying to understand within that precinct

01:27:30.520 --> 01:27:33.579
or that area, what do people want? How they move?

01:27:33.760 --> 01:27:36.000
Even if they don't know they want to meet friends,

01:27:36.140 --> 01:27:39.300
but try to figure out how do you string all those

01:27:39.300 --> 01:27:44.380
things together so that you try to change your

01:27:44.380 --> 01:27:46.960
F &B place or your bar. Don't look at it as a

01:27:46.960 --> 01:27:49.819
bar. Look at it as a meeting place. And everybody

01:27:49.819 --> 01:27:52.500
meets to do different things. Are you able to

01:27:52.500 --> 01:27:55.390
offer? those things you know so that's one thing

01:27:55.390 --> 01:27:58.109
on the people okay transport is a tough one yeah

01:27:58.109 --> 01:28:01.529
right i would uh if i had neighbors i i think

01:28:01.529 --> 01:28:04.510
i had a bar with neighbors uh operating fnb i'll

01:28:04.510 --> 01:28:06.210
knock all the doors and say hey let's all come

01:28:06.210 --> 01:28:09.130
together if i went to grab and say do a promotion

01:28:09.130 --> 01:28:12.369
for transport when you come to my place i don't

01:28:12.369 --> 01:28:15.050
have the volume but if all 20 of us say we will

01:28:15.050 --> 01:28:18.729
all sign up with grab so that our customers if

01:28:18.729 --> 01:28:21.069
you spend x dollar gets a voucher i think grab

01:28:21.069 --> 01:28:23.380
would be interested And then we make sure this

01:28:23.380 --> 01:28:26.399
street is all grab and not tada. Sorry, I didn't

01:28:26.399 --> 01:28:28.739
say tada. Maybe tada not grab. But, you know,

01:28:28.739 --> 01:28:31.359
who knows? Comfort Delgro might come in and say

01:28:31.359 --> 01:28:33.859
they want it. So I would then go to the kampung

01:28:33.859 --> 01:28:36.439
there and say, listen, you also got transport

01:28:36.439 --> 01:28:39.020
problem, not just me. Without you, I cannot fix

01:28:39.020 --> 01:28:41.539
it alone. So how do we get the gang? Wow, damn

01:28:41.539 --> 01:28:44.140
good. That's a bloody good idea. That's what

01:28:44.140 --> 01:28:47.100
we do at the association. Oh, that's a freaking

01:28:47.100 --> 01:28:50.109
good idea, man. The first person to tell me that

01:28:50.109 --> 01:28:52.930
shit. Okay. What's the third and last thing?

01:28:53.010 --> 01:28:54.949
So that's what the transport. Yeah, rising costs.

01:28:55.050 --> 01:28:58.409
Rising costs. It's okay. Rent. So this place

01:28:58.409 --> 01:29:01.289
was given to me. No choice. So I cannot change

01:29:01.289 --> 01:29:02.890
the landlord. Yeah, you cannot change the landlord.

01:29:03.069 --> 01:29:07.489
I think fixing the rent would be the best help.

01:29:07.590 --> 01:29:10.050
The second thing is the next highest cost is

01:29:10.050 --> 01:29:13.529
actually the manpower. Right? And really looking

01:29:13.529 --> 01:29:16.250
at do you need all these people? How can you

01:29:16.250 --> 01:29:20.850
best work out? your labor costs in that sense,

01:29:21.029 --> 01:29:23.449
right? And you never know, it could be an idea

01:29:23.449 --> 01:29:26.149
with your neighbor as well, right? Since transport

01:29:26.149 --> 01:29:28.670
so late, we are closing midnight, right? Why

01:29:28.670 --> 01:29:32.369
don't we share one guy, right? He's the closing

01:29:32.369 --> 01:29:35.710
guy. He cleans the place. He does what, what,

01:29:35.750 --> 01:29:38.289
what. We got CCTV. After he come to yours, he

01:29:38.289 --> 01:29:40.810
does yours. You know, so we couldn't find this

01:29:40.810 --> 01:29:43.069
one person that's looking to work from 12 midnight

01:29:43.069 --> 01:29:47.739
to 3 a .m. And then, so it's not, going straight

01:29:47.739 --> 01:29:49.460
down to just the guy closing up and cleaning.

01:29:49.579 --> 01:29:52.020
What I'm saying is that there must be something

01:29:52.020 --> 01:29:55.060
in the manpower you can do. And if you have to

01:29:55.060 --> 01:29:57.159
pay your part -timers more, fine, you spend time

01:29:57.159 --> 01:30:00.239
finding the right person and making sure when

01:30:00.239 --> 01:30:02.199
that person rocks up, that's when the money is

01:30:02.199 --> 01:30:04.699
made. Now, while you're doing all these things,

01:30:04.779 --> 01:30:07.199
we also got to remember, this is a F &B sport,

01:30:07.359 --> 01:30:09.920
right? You must know that your customers are

01:30:09.920 --> 01:30:12.819
not leaving your door upset. And if they are,

01:30:12.979 --> 01:30:15.600
you know because something happened and you don't

01:30:15.600 --> 01:30:18.340
address it. it will never go away. That person

01:30:18.340 --> 01:30:20.840
might not come back and through time, you will

01:30:20.840 --> 01:30:23.180
tell. And one day you'll sit down and say, yeah,

01:30:23.220 --> 01:30:26.220
I knew my service standards wasn't there. Or

01:30:26.220 --> 01:30:29.020
I knew I had to fix this and I didn't. I knew

01:30:29.020 --> 01:30:31.699
my price was, I was cheating them, too high price

01:30:31.699 --> 01:30:34.399
and I never. So things that you know. So the

01:30:34.399 --> 01:30:37.520
whole customer satisfaction is, people talk about

01:30:37.520 --> 01:30:40.720
this, but I really truly believe in it, even

01:30:40.720 --> 01:30:43.420
though I know customers are unreasonable. Sometimes.

01:30:43.960 --> 01:30:46.479
It's a 4 .5, they give you 2 or 3, but never

01:30:46.479 --> 01:30:48.779
mind. There are learnings in there. You'll be

01:30:48.779 --> 01:30:50.800
pleasantly surprised. You pay attention to your

01:30:50.800 --> 01:30:53.220
customer satisfaction scores or however you get

01:30:53.220 --> 01:30:56.460
a feedback. And those are some things that you

01:30:56.460 --> 01:30:58.279
wake up to that you can read and say, okay, and

01:30:58.279 --> 01:31:00.819
don't take it as a negative, right? Take it as,

01:31:00.859 --> 01:31:03.500
okay, that's what he says. You know, if that

01:31:03.500 --> 01:31:05.359
really happened, I'll be pissed off too. And

01:31:05.359 --> 01:31:07.579
yeah, let's do something about it. So it's a

01:31:07.579 --> 01:31:11.600
lot of these things that need to happen in order

01:31:11.600 --> 01:31:15.640
not to follow down the, everything is dying sort

01:31:15.640 --> 01:31:20.119
of trail. No wonder Dennis said that it's, it's,

01:31:20.119 --> 01:31:25.979
F &B is a science. Yeah. And even if you try

01:31:25.979 --> 01:31:28.180
to piece it together, all these experts, consultants,

01:31:28.439 --> 01:31:31.039
schools, and everything like this, it's just

01:31:31.039 --> 01:31:34.500
never, the info never ends. Because situation,

01:31:34.760 --> 01:31:37.760
circumstances. It's a lot of data. The more data

01:31:37.760 --> 01:31:40.239
you gather, the more you're able to react and

01:31:40.239 --> 01:31:43.770
be proactive. I can't work without data. I'm

01:31:43.770 --> 01:31:48.489
a data freak. I don't look like it, but for me,

01:31:48.510 --> 01:31:49.829
it's like... I would have never figured you to

01:31:49.829 --> 01:31:52.109
be a data freak, to be honest. If any of my guys

01:31:52.109 --> 01:31:55.350
tell me something and they want this, the first

01:31:55.350 --> 01:31:57.970
thing I do is to make sure all the data points

01:31:57.970 --> 01:32:00.909
are there for me to read and review before I

01:32:00.909 --> 01:32:03.569
go on the ground and listen to him a second time

01:32:03.569 --> 01:32:05.130
and say, okay, here's the money, go get it done.

01:32:05.569 --> 01:32:08.649
Because the numbers tell the story. You're usually

01:32:08.649 --> 01:32:11.149
quite accurate. Yeah. Hey, thanks, man, for all

01:32:11.149 --> 01:32:13.550
this. No problem. It's amazing. I mean, I'm hearing

01:32:13.550 --> 01:32:16.550
things that's very refreshing for me. It's good.

01:32:16.609 --> 01:32:18.569
It's a lot of learning curves, though I'm not

01:32:18.569 --> 01:32:20.869
in the F &B business, but interesting enough.

01:32:22.229 --> 01:32:24.369
I've gathered points of view from Dennis, from

01:32:24.369 --> 01:32:26.869
Rosie, and now from you. It's great, man. I mean,

01:32:26.890 --> 01:32:28.989
really. Thank you so very much for being here,

01:32:29.010 --> 01:32:32.050
Nathan. Thanks, and thanks, Chris. Wow. We've

01:32:32.050 --> 01:32:34.350
been overshot. No, don't worry about it. How

01:32:34.350 --> 01:32:38.500
long have we been talking, Kai? Wow, an hour

01:32:38.500 --> 01:32:41.119
and a half. More than an hour. Yeah, an hour

01:32:41.119 --> 01:32:43.420
and a half. Oh, don't worry, man. The one with

01:32:43.420 --> 01:32:47.279
Dennis is far longer. Okay. But thanks again

01:32:47.279 --> 01:32:48.840
for being on the show. I really appreciate you

01:32:48.840 --> 01:32:51.000
being here. And I wish you all the very best

01:32:51.000 --> 01:32:53.460
in whatever you're up to. Thank you, Chris. And

01:32:53.460 --> 01:32:56.560
definitely keep up what you're doing. Thank you.

01:32:58.460 --> 01:33:01.720
Giving ideas to people, letting them listen.

01:33:03.190 --> 01:33:05.010
providing this platform. And by the way, guys,

01:33:05.130 --> 01:33:08.649
the studio is rocking, man. It's an awesome studio.

01:33:08.949 --> 01:33:11.350
And thanks for the invite, most importantly.

01:33:11.350 --> 01:33:13.930
My pleasure. Thank you. Thank you so much again.

01:33:14.149 --> 01:33:18.289
And everybody, we're still very early stages

01:33:18.289 --> 01:33:21.090
of season six of the Chris Hansen Conversation.

01:33:21.489 --> 01:33:24.170
It's going to be a hell of a long one. But I

01:33:24.170 --> 01:33:26.130
promise you, it's going to get more and more

01:33:26.130 --> 01:33:28.949
interesting. Thanks for watching. As usual, I'm

01:33:28.949 --> 01:33:30.409
going to tell you this. Stay safe, everybody.

01:33:30.960 --> 01:33:33.560
I'll see you next Friday. Bye -bye.