The SureMove Mic 2 receiver kit was used during
the filming of this episode. I remember at 6
hours, I told you, I had to go. All these things
happened, so it wasn't just as if it was all
rosy all the way. It closed. Why did they close?
I blame it on the recession. But bottom line
is that I got no business experience. I only
have a passion for newsheek. Now to put bands
together, you know. Same lah, same. You only
had fashion. You didn't do it. Back then, you
didn't know what COF, COG and all was all about.
No, I don't even know how to balance my books.
I don't even know how to read the balance sheet.
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start the show. Hey, everybody, and welcome back
to the Chris Hansen Conversation. It is Season
6. Oh, and guess what? Look around me. Look behind
me. Look all around the environment. I am not
in studio. We are not in CCB TV studio today
for the very, very first time. On our season
premiere for Season 6, we are actually having
an off -studio, on -location shoot. And thank
you to the good people from Shure. and the good
people from E &E Private Limited because if not
for you guys, we would have never been able to
have left the studio. Today, we're out in the
sunshine. We're out in a great place. We are
located right here in Mel's Place Bar and Restaurant
in the heart of Katong. And I would like to say
thank you very much to Mel's Place for allowing
us to have our first shoot here outdoors on location.
Thank you. You will see who I said thank you
to very soon. Okay, today, what are we going
to be talking about? We've got for our season
premiere, and it's called That One with the Nightlife
King and the Bar Boss. Basically, I have with
me the oracle, the sage of Singapore's nightlife,
the king of the mega clubs, Mr. Dennis Fu. Hey,
Dennis, thank you very much. Good to have you
back on my show. And we also have the little
chili party. The newbie. Kinda. It's a compliment.
The newbie. The short hot stuff. Okay. The cheap
kahuna. From Mel's Place Bar and Restaurant.
Rosalind Brown, we call her. Rosie. Hi, Rosie.
Thanks for being here. Hi, hi. Thank you. For
letting us be here at Mel's Place. Most welcome.
And you know what we'll be talking about today?
Today we'll be talking about, we'll be having
this chitchat about. I'm going to say it, Dennis.
I will say it. The demise of nightlife in Singapore
is there. Agree or disagree? Very much. Rosie
says agree. I don't disagree. I think that is
a softer way of putting it. Nice one. And we
had a chat before we went on camera. And I kind
of like what you mentioned. how we should be
looking at how we should be dealing with all
this. With how dead Singapore's nightlife is
and how we can actually do something about it.
And I think one of the best ways is, yes, yes,
yes, some people might think otherwise, but I
say, fuck that. Reflect to the past. And when
I look at you, man, I think my teen years, I
think my youth. I think the great times I had
in all the Europa lounges and bars and clubs,
man. People of my generation, there's not a single
one I know has never stepped foot into anywhere
that's not Europa. Everyone's been to Europa.
Everybody. There's no way. And you started Europa,
as I remember, as a coffee shop. Or your dad
started it as a coffee shop. Yes, it was a lounge
and restaurant. In Changi. Right. And you turned
it into a live music spot. Back then, it was
the late 70s, early 80s? It was 1980 itself.
1980. The toughest rule or permit you had to
bring, you have to attain to at least get in
live music and sell booze. How did you manage
to get through the red tape at that time? Okay,
those days, we're talking about mid -70s and
80s. And at that time, I remember most of the
lounges, live music venues, were in hotels. Right.
Lobby lounges. Okay. And there were only two
outside of hotels. One is a hidden place. Two.
Only two. Late 70s, early. It is. And one is
in Orchard Tower, Brayden Place. Right. The other
one is in Singalock, Beer Keller. There were
only these two when you're outside a hotel. That
has live music. I mean, based on my memory. Right.
And it's almost impossible to get a license outside
a hotel if you are just a private operator. Right,
okay. That's why. It's actually HDB premise.
Okay. Even private premise is so difficult. HDB
premise is like impossible. Right. And at that
time, it was like, I remember when my father
opened it on the grand opening night, he wanted
a live band. So he spoke to me, can we organize
it? I said, well, I've never done this thing
before. But anyway, I make an attempt. I got
one night license. you know, and, and, and we,
we had great night, grand opening lah. So, over
time, many of my customers, especially the commando,
you know, wanted, eh, why not we have a live,
live entertainment, that would be very nice and
all. And actually, it's, I mean, for me, I know
it's suffrage and it's not possible. But anyway,
I attempted. So, when one Christmas came, When
Christmas came, I said, hey, why not? Christmas
is an occasion. We try. So I rolled in and asked
for a week's license. Actually, it's eight days.
You know, Christmas Eve and New Year's Day. So
you count the week, eight days. So I managed
to get an eight -day license. I was so happy.
And then we had a great time. And everybody was
having great fun. And it was a special moment
for Europa. Did you sing at that time? I mean,
you know, I mean, we hear it all the time, right?
We have people say, hey, why don't you go do
this? Why don't you go and do that? And a lot
of bar owners and club owners, we just go, no,
forget it. It won't happen. I cannot get one.
We hear that story all the time. But you, you
decided to write in to get it done. I mean, did
you think that, you know, the reason is few words.
Uh -huh. Nothing to lose. Repeat it. So I tried.
And then they agreed. How difficult was that?
It didn't sound as if it was too easy. No, it
wasn't easy. Because I had a record on the grand
opening. Because on the grand opening, you ask
for one night's license, they don't give you.
It's not easy for them not to give. It's an occasion.
Once in a lifetime, grand opening. But because
of that occasion, I have a record there. Then
I've already got one night approved. And there
was no incidents or anything. There's the record.
So when I, when Christmas came, I tried this,
so they saw a record that it's not easy, but
I, it's the way you write the letter. If you
compare that at that time, 1980, you're writing
in, I mean, Rosie's a young entrepreneur in the,
you know, in this sector. Everything manual.
Everything manual. I can't, I can't imagine,
I can't imagine, but, you know, Rosie is here
and the reason why she's here because It's great
that she says she can ask you questions as well.
You're an old hand at this game. You are the
sage of the business. And she is going through
what's happening today. And we're trying to pull
some relevance from what happened before and
how things are like right now, right? And if
we're looking at how difficult it was back then,
do you think it is equally difficult today or
is it easier in your mind? It's not as difficult
today as yesterday. But you agree, Rosie? Yes,
I agree. Okay. Okay, I will maybe try to substantiate
what I said. So, you know, the thing is, then
I continued my story. Then Chinese New Year came.
I applied. I said, in Christmas, you approve.
Chinese New Year, you must approve. Because it's
two different segments of the community. So it's
hard for them to say no. You have already approved
Christmas. And I got Chinese New Year license.
And duration shorter, but still a license over
a big weekend. Yeah. Then when Hari Raya came,
I did the same. I got it. Why? Why? This is one
segment of the community celebrating, you agree.
Another segment, you don't disagree. And the
third one, you can't say, okay, this is for life.
This is what life is. And then, and then, Diwali
came, I do the same thing. And that covered one
whole year. Yeah. And I went two cycle. That
means I went two years. Okay. After the two year
cycle, the lady, I've said this before, Four
decades ago, the lady at the public entertainment
licensing unit, I still remember her name. Her
name is Ng Lei Chin. She saw me so often, she
was tired of seeing my face. She said, okay,
I'll give you one year. That was the day that
made my day and my life. So in fact, I remember
when she retired and she visited me. I was so
happy. So those were the days when the system
though rigid, but it is not as if you can't find
your way. You find your way and you're lucky
and you have a good reason to support your cause,
your application, then there are considerations.
So how are you going to substantiate about the
level of difficulty bar owners like Rosie faces
today? Oh, it's completely two different sets
for them. Then is the licensing issue. Yes. Basically,
you know, to start was an issue. Okay. But today,
to start may not be a lesser issue. Maybe a lesser
issue. But to sustain is a bigger issue. If I'm,
you know, because since the industry developed
from the 70s and 80s years ago, then there are
multiple issues. I remember there was a senior
police officer back in the 80s. When one night
he visited me and then there was some issue.
Then I explained to him. Then he actually said
something I don't remember until today. He said,
yeah, this is where people are stressed out.
And then when down here they let their hair down
and then they unwind. This is a place for them
to get stressed. So actually, there was a...
You see, why I say this is... The effect is not
always negative. And now today, that non -negativity
can be translated multifold. Right. If you look
at it positively. Right. But where else is that?
I wouldn't say another segment of the community
will resist it. I wouldn't use that expression.
But because if they are impacted negatively,
then they will, some will react. Right. And today,
you know, everything is so open. With social
media, complaints can be done in multiple ways.
And when the authorities hear this, and they
are compelled to act, that's why you face different
problems. You know? So this is one side. And
then also, but the bigger picture today is that
the government was able to see things in a bigger
perspective. They are no more using a microscope.
when the industry is small. Today, they can see
the overall. So, one of the things I used to
say before the industry grew, actually, the turning
point was really, if I remember, was in the mid
-80s. Right. It was a pivoting point. Right.
I remember when I started Tap Main Park at the
Parkway Parade. That was, before that, there
were already very, very good bars, especially
in hotels. For example, you had Matthew performing
at Lee Peacock Bar. You had Tanya performing
at the Pebbles Bar in Forum Hotel. You had Speedway,
the Ion Bar in Apollo Hotel. The action was pretty
hot. But the number of performers in terms of
established bands are not many. So, hence, and
then, when we opened Peppermint Park, it was
something very new. We got a designer from Disneyland.
I still remember his name, Daniel Planbury. He
was the one who created Pirates of the Caribbean
in Disneyland. Right. So, one of my partners
actually studied in the States, connected with
him, and brought him down to create Peppermint
Park, an indoor venue with an outdoor feel. Right.
And then that actually became an eye -opener.
I mean, it was the first of its kind anywhere
in the world, actually, for a nightclub. However,
the market wasn't big enough to sustain it. Right.
But it sets the tone. And actually, we worked
very closely. And Tourism Board invited us. Singapore
Tourism Board, those days it was STPB, Singapore
Historic and Promotion Board, invited us to take
over the cultural theatre. in Range Road where
Tourism Court is now. Right. So we built an Atlantis.
That means the version is not indoor but look
outdoor but the version is you are indoor but
this is underwater Atlantis. Yeah. And the same
designer did it but at double the price of the
bar. You know. And then the recession came. But
that actually kind of eye -opener through STPB
and into the bigger rate of things where the
government look at it, this can be complementary,
this industry can be complementary to tourism.
That's why we were invited. So when you take
the big picture and how you can contribute to
the overall economy, then nightlife take a different
platform. Right. And then things start happening.
So you're saying that because of that, because
of the evolution of nightlife in Singapore, The
government is seeing a big picture that actually
this is helpful for tourism. Licensing became
easier. Licensing, I know there are certain parameters,
but I want to share fair enough what you just
said easier. Because I remember when I first
started, you want to get a license, there's a
form, a reading manual, I say. There are about
six columns there. Each column, you go to one
government agency to get stamp of no objection.
Fire Bureau. At first, I go to HDB, then Fire
Bureau. Then, yeah. So, I got to get all the
stamps. So, it was a chore. Did you encounter...
What challenges did you encounter? Did you encounter
any challenges getting your entertainment license?
Okay. I've always had... Speak the truth and
shame the devil. Yeah. I've always had my license
even before COVID. Right. So, I took over only
in 2019. Okay. And... She's a baby, Dennis. Yeah.
2019 is a very, very turbulent time. Yeah, it
was. It was shaky. But it was good. It was a
good four months. Yeah. Right? Then came COVID,
which really hit me. Timing, huh? Wah, I tell
you, nobody knew, right? That it's going to come.
You know, it was... Nobody knew. And you know,
there was an open -close, open -close, five packs,
ten packs back then. You remember? The distancing
issue and all. Luckily for us, we have space.
So those smaller pubs and all, if it's two packs,
how many inside can you fit? It was called a
suck -dumb situation at that time. So it was
really bad. So she got a unique selling proposition.
So she can space out a table hose. So for me,
luckily I had space. Indoor as well as outdoor.
But the thing was, so we stopped live band. Back
then, it was just some acoustic live band whereby
we didn't really gather much, many crowds. So
it was Friday, Saturday and not many came. Yeah.
And then, so my husband wasn't really into live
band when we reopened, you see. So it took me
some time to convince him. Because I know some
band members, we are all like church friends,
you know, since way back, family friends and
all. So I got him in, GNT, was the first that
played for me. GNT, okay. Yeah. Sean. Sean DeMello.
Sean DeMello, yeah. Robato, Gavin, and BJ. Yeah.
So Robato was the one, my church from way back.
Yeah, they were one of my favorite band partners.
I watched them. Yeah. Okay. That's nice to hear.
Yeah. So from then, I got Roberto in. I said,
hey, can you help me? Give me sister price and
all this. And then, because I need to convince.
Roberto Carlos de Costa. Okay. So I need to convince
my team that, you know, let me try it out. If
it works, okay. If it doesn't work, we'll stop.
I'll stop. Right? So I tried out. Did it work?
It did. It did. Christian, I'm so proud of you.
What was, okay, let me just, thank you, thank
you. Let me just rewind this a little bit. My
question actually was about licensing as well.
Let's go back to that for a bit before I move
forward to what you've just said. Rosie, you
said that you've only had your license 2019,
right? How was it for you when you went to apply
for your license? Well, my license, actually,
Mailspace really had the license way back. So
actually, I didn't apply. So you inherited the
license? I inherited it. Right. Renewals for
you have never been, it went over the company.
So everything came from it. Right. Okay. So now
I'm going to move forward to what you just said.
You had a two -piece acoustic and then you brought
in GMT. GMT is a five -piece. No, four. Four
-piece band. Well done, sir. Drum pads. Drum
pads. So, we have a four -piece band playing
and then that four -piece band, you said, brought
home more business. Yeah, it did. Why? I guess
because, I'm not sure, but we may have targeted
a specific community for this. So, rent carton.
Most of them are relations. So you were looking
for the... I wasn't. To begin with, no. To begin
with, no. To begin with, it's because I've heard
GMT. Right. Yeah. And I know Robato. And it was
actually my anniversary, 20th anniversary here
in Nels. So I got them in. And I had to limit
the number of packs to come in because of the
seating arrangement. I had to limit because we
don't know how many to anticipate. So I kind
of underestimated. I could have gotten in more
people. So food was free. It was buffet. You
mean you overestimated. I overestimated. Food
was free. It's only that they support me in drinks.
And it was good. So this is our experience. I
can imagine. The kind of feeling you get when
the thing takes off. After all the hassle and
everything, then suddenly your first experience,
they will saw it happen. Yes. And then when it
happened, the satisfaction, money cannot buy
it. It's sense of achievement, right? But that
is, you got a Midas touch when it comes to bands.
No, not Midas touch. Midas touch, friend. Look,
you the guy. You're the guy. They brought in
bands that became names. You know, bands that
I still remember. I mean, I know Gino. Gino Sunga
has gone back to the Philippines, but he's been
here like forever before, right? And Expo has
been around also like forever before, right?
After your time is in James Power Station. And
The Boys. Adam, Adil, and Ben. I mean, you have
this knack. on hiring talents, music talents.
Actually, in the beginning, it was a bit luck.
But then later, I learned along the way. So,
okay. You knew them? You knew them? I knew them.
So, I'll explain to you. See, I'm not shy to
say this. I know you're not shy. So, I'm a university
dropout. Okay. Singapore University. I drop out
for the financial reasons. to attend family business.
But during the university, I picked out something.
I was the president of the music society in university.
So the thing I do as a music society, every time
orientation week, the beginning of a new term,
I'll bring in the musicians from all over to
perform in campus. So I remember visiting, I
was the group Tanya. in Forum Hotel, Pebbles
Bar. I was their groupie. Oh? I slept there at
their bunk. And then I woke up. I would wake
up in the morning and I walk Nassim Road because
the campus was in Bukit Timah. I walk Nassim
Road to my campus. That evening, I will look
for my $7 .50 so that I can buy a glass of gin
tonic. That's my campus day. So I got, you know,
kind of... I was exposed to the music. Right.
And then I remember Rahimah Rahim was performing
in Club 392. Right. Across the road. With the
old shophouse where Orchard Towers is now. Yes,
yes. Old shophouse, you know. Club 392 owned
by a Jewish family. And then I couldn't go in
because I couldn't afford to buy a drink. So
I waited outside for her to finish her show.
And then when she knocked off, I asked her. to
come to campus and perform for us. So that's
what I did in campus. Right. That's the president
of the Woon Sik Society. Okay. So I got exposed
too. Then, then there's one, you know, musician
from Adeel Adebay Band. Yeah. Adeel is from my
school. Okay. And then we, and I know the brother
very well. So he was performing at Three Tops
Bar in Holiday Inn those days. Holiday Inn. So
I used to visit there, you know, to listen to
them. And then they used to complain to me. They
said, you know, musicians are very, very interesting.
Actually, for them at that time, music was everything.
You know, and they wanted certain instruments.
Obviously, they couldn't afford it. And then,
at that time, there was this new synthesizer
called, by Roland. For Jupiter 8, I always remember
Jupiter 8. You remember? They were the king of
synthesizers and the first of its kind in Moheo
at that time. Major king. Everybody, every keyboardist,
every band wanted it. So I just threw one. At
that time, I already started in Changi. I already
got my license. Then I thought this band would
be good. I mean, for a five -star hotel band
to come to Changi Point, big deal, man. So...
So I said, if you are willing to perform in Changi
Point, I'll buy the Jupiter 8. And not only that,
I'll buy the baby grand Yamaha piano for you.
Of course, I bought a second -hand one on the
Yamaha. But the Jupiter 8, you have to buy new.
And then Ben Saleh, the keyboardist, went bright.
And then the rest is history as it came over.
And I remember when I first started, my first
band was called Touché. T -O -U -C -H -E. Touché.
Touché. In the French, Touché. Touché. And the
band leader and the singer is this guy called
Marcel Rudin. Okay. The blind man. The blind
Marcel Rudin who sang in National Day a few years
ago. Remember? Marcel Rudin. I'm sorry. Well,
he sang on National Day. Right. And then I remember
he's blind and he comes by bus. So every time
I have to be at the bus stop waiting for him
to come out, I'll lead him to the bus. I mean,
but that was experience. And I mean, his music
was good. And he had this touch. But why did
you sing? Why did you sing even at that time?
You went the distance to bring in good performers,
good entertainers, good musicians to come in
and play. Why? No, those days, any musicians
are good musicians. Yes, true. Why? For the business,
why? Oh, that's a good question. Good. My father
opened it here in 1979, September the 10th. Right.
Here, 1980, September the 10th, he passed on.
Exactly one year. His last words to me were,
take care of this place. me as the eldest son
obviously I can't say no so I took his word for
it so I left everything when I went to to to
run I didn't know what to do and I didn't know
what to do I wasn't trained I don't know I know
But why musicians? I mean, you went all to the,
all that trouble. Did your father have all the
musicians as well? No. No, no. My father is not
into music. Only, like I said, the roots started.
You didn't have to spend that money to bring
in musicians into a business, into the F &B business,
but you did. And you were so excited about it.
You ran to get the Jupiter 8. You got Adam, Aladl
and Ben to come in. That's why I mentioned Touche.
Touche. Touche. But you know, at this point,
nobody wants to work. Master Rudin worked for
multiple reasons. Maybe he's blind, he worked
for me. Maybe, you know, I don't know. But I
was exposed to it and then I get the hang of
it. The person behind Master Rudin shows me a
path. Yeah, what is that? You know, that path
is because I told myself I don't want to stay
behind a cash register all my life. Right. I
said, I better do something here. And that started
music. Okay, so did you believe at that time?
Because Rosie believed in it. She brought in
a four -piece and business started to grow. And
from a two -piece to a four -piece. You started
at that time in those days, in 1980. Because
you felt the passion. You were a fanboy, a groupie.
You brought in other models. You invested in
the BB Grand. You invested in the Roland Jupiter
-8. You got into Shea. Did you think at that
time that having live music, having great bands
would actually bring home the bacon for the place?
No, I felt the bacon right away. Oh, really?
Why? How so? Those commandos, they were my core.
You know, they're all there every night. And
then I met some of my best friends, you know,
to talk to music. So the customers wanted like
this? And at that time, there was this law, of
course. way out in Changi Point. Right. Those
days, how to market yourself, I don't know. I'm
not a restaurateur, I'm not a lounge operator,
I'm not even a marketer. You know, that's what
I remember. I don't have any means to reach out.
Yeah, yeah. But there was a captive potential
audience there. Right. Because the airport, the
cargo complex was about to be built, in the process
of being built. Right. And there were a lot of
people going in and out of that area. And some
of them, then later when the Khao Ho complex,
Khao Ho complex, the people there are one of
my core customers. And then, word of mouth, that's
very powerful. Most powerful too. Very powerful
those days. Back then, no Facebook, no Instagram.
Because, very simple. When you say something,
hey, you know this place way out in Changi, all
the people packed, everybody curious. you know
that kind of thing it is very powerful because
I think it transcended because 1980 I was only
10 years old 10 years old 10 years old when I
was 14 when I was 14 and secondary 2 and I learned
of this band that played in Tavern on the Square
Gingerbread And I heard so much about them, so
many people, and being underage, I snuck in.
Jason and Ann Hussain, Jason, Shahul, and Ann
Hussain, bless them, I love them to bits, knows
this story. I used to sneak in, you know, I look
older than my age and I would watch the band
play, you know, part of my inspiration. And this
thing about watching bands and liking the beat,
you know, the music, you know, and it's not about
the booze, man, it's about, The feeling, the
sensation of joy, you know what I mean? Just,
yeah, it was so magnetic. And it went on for
years. It went on to many generations, you know,
to those who party in the 80s, a party that rocked
the 90s, you know, and part of the 2000s. We
fast forward to 2025, right now. If today, Dennis
Fu is that young man again, A music groupie,
nothing has changed, and you've got this one
outlet that your dad has said, grow this, take
care of it. Would you still stick to the same
strategy of bringing in great live bands to attract
your market? How differently would you do it?
You'll always be there. The way I do it will
be different. I'm going to a different world.
Let's hear that. I did hear that, but that was
different. Before I continue this one, Seven
Hours Square, I was park owner. It was you? Yes.
Well, you're this underage kid. That's why I
don't have to pay for drinks. I remember Gino
was there. Gino was born there. What? Gino Funga
was born there. Really? Yeah. Not with the Ben
Expo. No, with the Ben Expo. He was born there.
You know, it all started this way. There was
a group of ah bings. Okay? Ah bings. Business
wasn't like fantastic lah. So ah bings request
this, request that. Then, you know, they want
to sing. Then they got angry. Yeah. They want
to bash them up. And then he pretend to be a
gay. Yeah. He got away with it. Yeah. So since
then, the gay part became an act lah. That was
the real story. You know what I mean? It was
an act. Huh? Gino's act. It was an act. Holy
shitballs, man. You don't want to hear it. You
don't want to hear it. You don't want to hear
it. No, but, but, but, no way to censor this,
I know, but I did a thing with, you know. But
how differently would you do things today? I
don't think he'll be offended. No, he won't be.
I don't think Gino will be. But how differently
would you do things today? You know that Rosie
is here, right? If Dennis Foo was a young man
again at this time, 2025, knowing the marketplace
the way it is, would you still use live music,
live bands, great bands as an attraction to bring
in more business into the business? Bottom line
today, the market is completely different from
then. Right. Then there was no market. Right.
It was the beginning of hope -to -be market.
Right. Okay? And we didn't know what the market
was all about. We just know how to pay the bills
for this month. And because we enjoy doing it,
as long as we can pay the bill and we enjoy doing
it and make a little bit of profit, we're very
happy. Right. So we don't think too far. Okay.
But today, because I have too many things...
Too many baggage in my mind. So I must qualify
how to put my finger on mine. Sure. Then I had
nothing in my mind. No baggage. You know, to
go forward. Yeah. So now you ask me this question
which is interesting. Can I rephrase? Okay. Can
I rephrase? Yes. Using your experience, would
you have the ban now? If you open a pub? It has
to be what? Because if you don't enjoy what you
do, then why do it? And because I enjoy listening
to Ben, I do it. And both things come together,
you see. You understand what I'm trying to say?
So, but the point I'm trying to make here is
today, you're asking me today. Yeah. And your
opening line for this session is called Demise
or Nightlife. Yes. So, Nightlife is in a state
of demise. Yeah. And you asked me to do it now
and haven't... having seen and experienced what
has happened from where we were in Changi, 1980,
to where it became in the 2000, and that it just
transformed itself into a major lifestyle for
many people, including yourself, myself, yourself,
and everybody else. And then you, the state of
demise is in today. You ask me this question,
I say no. Because I understand all this, and
you put a light band out there, you got the weed,
more light. First thing, there is the, we're
talking about the complaints, we have the operating
hours not enough, the cost of operation is too
high, because the alcohol is prohibitive, after
midnight transport is too expensive, and then,
All the reasons. And people are staying at home.
So under this condition, now that you know, those
days we don't know, we don't know how to be scared.
Today, when you know all this, you'll be scared.
Back then, it was all taxi hailing. There was
no Grab, no Tata, no Gojek, nothing to compare,
you see, prices and all. Fair enough. Yeah, so
whether or not the taxi, you know, back then,
taxi, by 11 .30, you will not see any taxis on
the street. Right. Yes. Surcharged. Surcharged.
So if you ask me, back then, I would say more
bustling. More what? Bustling. Yeah, the nightlife.
More bustling. Yeah. Okay. Same thing. You see,
the thing is, this is the change of the populace.
Like we talk, then X, then Y, then Z. Then Z,
lifestyle change. But they're different. I wouldn't
say change. Gen Z is up to late 20s. And the
last seven, eight years, I've detached from market,
so I don't understand what has developed there.
But one thing I know, I don't know a single song
from Taylor Swift. Neither do I. You're not alone.
Don't worry about it. I don't know a single song.
Do you know where I'm going wrong? So we cannot...
Shake it off. No. But really, I mean, it's grown
so big. You know, and I don't understand why
it became so big. So it's a different world.
But what I'm trying to say today is when you
don't know anything, you got no fear. Right.
Your heart overrules your head all the time.
Right. But now you know so many things and you're
aware of so many things, the fear is there. Right.
You know where I'm coming from. So what you have
adventured into the F &B business, if let's say
today, again, under my hypothesis that you're
still a young man. not knowing much, but knowing
what it's like today, okay? How the marketplace
is like today. Would you still have ventured
into food and beverage? Provided I see that the
market is conducive, okay? Conducive, the four
conditions down there does not make it conducive.
You actually let those conditions change. Second,
there must be a bigger force. that feels this
is contributory to the overall country. Right.
Okay? And that they will support. What's this
bigger force? Bigger force is the government.
Okay. The G. Okay. If they see the positivity
coming out of this, then I must be convinced
if they see it and they want to do something
about it, then maybe I come in. Which means if
the signal is here and there, then if I have
choice, then I think twice. So if today is today...
Wait, he answered for me. Really? Okay. No, we
didn't prepare this. We didn't coordinate. So
St. James Power Station was unique. Different
food, drink, entertainment, sports, all in one
place. That was a real big idea. Grand idea.
Will it work today or will it fuck up? Yes and
no. Okay. Why yes? Depends on the target audience.
If I say if Singapore is dependent purely on
domestic demand for nightlife, I won't do it.
Okay. Because of all the factors. The four factors
you mentioned earlier. Yeah. But these four factors
mostly is Gen Z. Well, everyone's targeting the
Gen Z. Okay. Gen Z. Don't blame them because
they grew from a different era. But the Gen X
and the Gen Y, they missed it. They missed what?
They missed what they experienced. Like you talked
about the Europa Days. They missed it. Basically,
the exposure was in there. I mean, they're missing
this. Yeah, you're missing it. They're missing
it. No exposure, yeah. Yeah, they experienced
it before and they're looking for it again. No
more. But there is no places because you need...
You see, I always... Actually, in my life...
Mouse place? Yeah. You know, this point. You
know, you know, this whole thing, seamless. I
want to share this with you. I come to a conclusion
because one of my favorite topics, I must give
a talk. I've done talk multiple times with many
different places. From, in fact, I remember the
graduating MBA class at NUS, I was invited to
do the talk. Wow, okay. And the multiple history
institution as well. My favorite subject is the
art of entertainment is a science. Okay. Okay.
I'm going to say this. I think I didn't copy
from anywhere. Okay. Science to me is through
observation we deduce theory. Okay. And from
theory we identify the different principles.
Right. And see it manifested in the syndromes
so that it reinforces our theory. You got that?
I'm about getting lost in the cosmos already.
Okay? So, we all as operators, we observe and
then we review. This can not. Then we test. Then
we identify. So, one of my biggest, what do you
call that? Conclusion. Right. Is that we only
sell one thing in nightlife. Right. That one
thing is called atmospheres. Wow. Okay. Everything
is translated back to atmosphere. Right. You
can have the best man in the world and nobody
there, no atmosphere. Right. Yeah. And the thing
is, when there are a lot of people, If not, with
an empty house, even if the music is good, I'd
rather drink at home. Right. Cheaper, better,
in the comfort of my room. So, atmosphere is
so important. So, how do we get the atmosphere?
That is the art, okay? Mel has achieved it. I've
heard so much, you know? Mel's place, to you,
you know? And, and the thing is, this atmosphere
is made of people. And it's translated to me.
as number of people per area of space. Per area
of space. Let's say you have 200 people. Better
write this down, you will see. You have 200 people
at 10 ,000 square feet venue, no atmosphere.
Right. Too scarce. Okay. But 200 people in the
2 ,500 square feet, a lot of atmosphere. Right.
So it is number of people per area of space.
Right. And how do you arrive at that? What draws
people in? Right. That is an art as well. So
the band component is where the attractions is.
But at the end of the day, it must be translated.
Yeah, you know, it's interesting you say that
because let me just... Because I'm answering
your question about St. James. Yes. Because St.
James is a 5 ,000 capacity venue. Right. 5 ,000.
Then you have 50 valets. 50 valets, yeah. Can
only imagine 50 valets. 50 valets, 80 security.
Only have one valet. Yeah. Okay. So you look
at that, why I say not now? Because the demand
locally, because all the reasons given cannot
support this. And to create that, we need to
create the atmosphere with enough people so that
this product becomes, this product thrives. If
you don't have enough people, so the answer,
answering your question whether I'll do San James
again, if today, St. James, that same family
with 5 ,000 capacity, same concept. Right. It's
created in the heart of Orchard Road. Right.
Okay? Within walking distance. Right. More than
a dozen hotels with 12 ,000 rooms in and around
the area. To attract the tourists. Walking distance,
they can walk there. Right. Without, so transport.
won't be an issue. They can walk back to the
hotel. So, you're talking more for the shows.
This is where... Where locals are. Wait. So,
when it happens, walking distance, 12 ,000 people
a day, one per room. Right. Can you imagine easily
we have 18 ,000 people within their walking distance.
Right. And other hotels, island -wide. Island
-wide. Right. Okay? They don't want to miss out
for their guests. They will do shuttles for them.
And this creates a magnet. Our locals will find
it worthwhile to go because there's an ecosystem.
Our locals will be happy to go because you go
down there, there's atmosphere. And our expatriates
will be even more willing to go. Yeah, but why
are people doing it then? Okay, it's so... hearing
what you just said, if today Sparks is alive
in Neon City, Studebakers is alive, it would
thrive in this day and age today, in the middle
of Altru Road. That's why the proposition...
Altru is dead now. It is completely dead. Because
St. James, the concept why there are 12 venues
there, each venue is different. You've got the
canto, you've got the vendo, you've got the...
You've got the Latin, you've got the top 40,
you've got appealing to multiple different people.
So you target the tourist segment bound to have
some, you know. So what I'm trying to say is,
why I say tourist, because most tourists belong
to Gen X and Gen Y. They are still relevant for
our kind of music, the St. James kind of music,
for the next 15 years at least. Okay. Look at
it. So, which means that we're going to encounter
the same problem again when the Gen Zers reach
my age. Then the nightlife will be there again.
Good question. It's a cycle. This nightlife has
always been done in blocks over time. It cannot
be something that will be perpetually the same
over time. So, you need to evolve. But meanwhile,
while there's nothing, you lean on something
that is still there. Okay. And hopefully, a new
wave comes and you can address this new wave
in a more appealing way. Let me give you what
I think about from a musical angle, from a musician
-performer attitude. When you have the Gen Zers
who are not exposed, they're only exposed...
I'm not undermining Gen Z. I have their own...
I know you're not, but I'm going to. Yes. And
I don't really blame them because, you know,
I think the highlight of their lives would be
COVID. There's a highlight of their lives so
far. Highlight. It has always been. COVID too,
you see, a lot of damage. Of, you know, my life
is empty. We have to restart, you know, because
of COVID. Yeah. We belong to the anti -social
club, you know, that kind of thing, you know,
and they really would love to wear a mask if
they could every day. You know, they've grown
up that way. They'd rather talk to you online
or text, please don't call me, you're so weird,
you're calling me. Yeah, yeah. He just shows
how much of an impact COVID has had on them.
And then on top of that, if you look at, say,
American Top 40 today, you look at the charts,
you hardly see a band. Back in the old age, you
see more bands than you do solo artists. So that's
a phenomenon. And then you go into a bar, if
there is music, there's going to be a one piece
of Pagani guitar singing or two pieces at the
most. If you can get a three -piece acoustic,
you're already very lucky, which is crazy. Now,
recently, Dennis, you were there with us for
the Don't Write Us All concert, the two nights,
right? And the good people who managed the Boon
Tan, the rice company, Limited, did this wonderful
media, which I saw, you know, and they went to
interview some young people who were there. And
you can hear what their opinions were like. What
did I just watch? What did I just see? I've never
known music can be this big and so good. Right?
Yeah, absolutely. So it's clear. That exposure,
isn't it? They don't know what it's like to have
a big sound coming at you. You know when you're
jive talking and they brought a horn section
to come in and a nine piece playing out there.
And it was really mind -blowing. I was like,
thank you. You know, and it was fun. It was an
eye -opener for the young. they start to realize
that maybe I'm missing out on some things. Then
last week, I went, I'm giving them free advertising
too. I went to the Blackbird. Yeah. And to watch
Bellingham. Guys of Bellingham, I love you guys.
Yeah. Okay. You're good friends. And I needed
a live music fix. Every now and then I get that.
I need a live music fix. I come to Mel's for
that too. So we went over to Blackbird and there
was this table with young people. You were there.
Yeah, I was there. And I don't know whether you
remember that table, right? Yeah. They were trying
to make fun of us initially. They were going
like, all the jet exes. With their phones and
the lights. Yeah, yes. And then the old, crazy
old people and my folks would be doing this.
They're young enough to be my kids. Yeah. But
then when Faithfully, the band started playing
the song Faithfully, they were like, what the
hell is this? What song is this? And they were
doing this. But after, in the middle of the song,
mid -flight, they were going. You can see on
their faces, they're going, wow. Like, what did
I just listen to? So sadly, the exposure isn't
there, in my opinion. So I still believe, that's
why I'm paying tribute to you, sir, and to you
as well, Rosie, because you believe that bringing
in music, live bands, is the way to go. And it's
a tribute to the both of you. on my season premiere.
I'm Eurasian. Eurasian and music, we go hand
in hand. We just love to party. You need to have
the passion. Music is a liking for many people.
But the passion to pursue it as a business, it's
two different things with a lot of challenges.
So, I say this because I heard so much about
Bell's Place. I thought I would see The Ferdinand
Brothers. Ah, you never visited that area? No,
because... Melford was here last week. Yes, yes.
After his concert. They performed in Telan Europa
before. Yeah. I had a place in, you know, the
Teh Bon Kwan. Yeah? Yes, I had one place called
Telan Europa. The Ferdinand Brothers were...
What's the name of the band? Gypsy. Gypsy were
there, yeah. So you know, they're all Eurasian.
They're all Katong kid. So when they say male
space, I imagine it's the Ferdinand. So today
I came here, I expect a Ferdinand. But nice to
see you. Please ask me that question. Use all
male space. I got it too. No, but really. They
won't ask me, am I male? Never do. No joke, not
easy. Then you go to Europa to board in 10, more
than 10 outlets for sure. 10 what? Europa. Europa
Group. How many bars did you guys have? At the
high bars. At the high. There you go. And they're
all big. How does one manage to expand so much
and still make money when you had those market
wars going on? When the market is growing and
you capture a good part of the market. Okay.
Okay. We made it sound so simple, you know. Financial,
you know what I'm saying. When the market grows,
the finance will come in. You know, so it's natural.
So you have method, so you just do your... So
many ways to skin the cat when there's a battle.
When there's no market... Help? Did you have
help back then? Of course. What kind of help
did you have? Good question, Rosie. But what
kind of help was that? Oh, I want to share this.
Yes, I want to hear. I'm pretty open about this.
Great. Shoot, man. I was the, what I call, I
mean, for lack of a better description. Yeah.
I was like the provision shop operator when I
was in Changi. Just passionate about running
this provision shop. Okay. I didn't know what
is marketing. Okay. I only know what is a good
band. So I know. And then I, how should I put
it? I remember my first year when I took over
after my father's passing. I had to sell Christmas
Eve dinner. I didn't know how to market it. So
I called a friend in the press. Until today,
I am great. I mean, gratitude for this. And she
came over. Then she came out once, four little
column, like that. What advertisement? Good,
I didn't pay for it. Bought an article. Right.
Back in the early 80s, 81. One like that. It's
on what? ST. In between, one lady sign of Violet
Oon. Then, next day, when the article came out,
it was a straight statement. It wasn't an advertisement
because I did nothing for it. It was a blurb.
It was a simple little blurb. Blurb, that's the
word. So, what happened is, I walked into my
office at 11am by 2pm, so out. My business dinner,
so out. That's the power of print media then,
okay? Yeah, back then, yes. Print was, yes. No,
no. You know, yeah, now print is, no. Now you
can put 10 pages, you know, just print. So what
I'm trying to say here is answering your question.
What was your question again? I cite a predicate
for one subject. Did you have help who helped
you out? Okay, good proof. So I did know how
to market. Yeah. Then later on, of course, I
started opening the Peppermint Park. I had Europa
Grand. I took over Matthew's Park restaurant,
Matthew's Restaurant in Orchard Towers. Right,
okay. I had Atlantis, 2 .86 billion then. A GCB
cost 1 .4 million. Two GCB. And then 1 .4 is
Tabletop Park, I always remember. Okay. Then
we opened. You're talking about 1984? 1984, yeah.
I went to Pep Park when I was in Sec 2. Then,
then, and I just like, I just like to put bands
together. So you saw all the good things that
happened through me, but I'm not going to tell
you the real bad things that happened to me.
The lessons I have to do. And tuition fees I
have to pay. Right. So you ask me, of course,
people like to take credit for everything and
say they can do this and all this. No. I went
through a very difficult period. I failed a lot
of tuition fees. So this was that. I remember
at Six Outlet, I told you, K1, K1, Kevin had
growth. Kevin on the square, the one you just
mentioned, growth. So all these things happened.
So it wasn't just as if it was all rosy all the
way. It closed. Why did they close? I blame it
on the recession. But bottom line is that I got
no business experience. I only have a passion
for newsheek. How to put bands together. Same
lah, same. You don't have passion. You didn't
do, back then you didn't know what COF, COG,
you know what it was all about. No, I don't know
how to balance my books. I don't even know how
to read the balance sheet. Yeah, I mean, I'm
not. It was not completed. Yeah, it wasn't completed
yet. It's all manual. Yeah. So, so, and then,
of course, I went back. to Changi, my wound.
Then I told myself, then my band got, my band,
was poached. I didn't know my band was offered.
By who? Nevermind, long time ago, can say it
lah. Poached by a place called Discovery lah.
And then overnight, my business dropped by 40
% in Changi. Everybody went there. Okay. And
then I told myself, now this is the timeline.
Something new. So people ran, right? Something
new. So I worked very hard. What did you do?
I found Expo. That's how it happened. I brought
Expo. So I brought Expo. Fresh start. Then after
Expo, make an even bigger thing. More people
went. Through Expo, I started expanding again.
Nothing in disguise. So we brought Expo in at
a time. The boys came in as well, right? Expo
boys, politicians, they were doing different
things. By then, I was exposed to the Filipino
market. The Filipino market was, you know what
inspired me to do Papuan Park? This place called
Rainbow. Right, Rainbow. Dr. Goh Po Sing. Yeah,
Goh Po Sing, yes. Dr. Goh Po Sing, he passed
out a long time ago, right? Dr. Goh and I used
to spend lunch at the first Pung Ruk restaurant
in Liangkot. I always remember the fifth floor.
Right. He and I would have lunch there and then
we'll talk, talk, we got, we got common interest
and we continue to talk. Lots of things to talk.
Yeah. You know. Yeah. And, and, and then the
restaurant closed at 3 o 'clock. Then we asked
permission, can we stay back to continue our
talk. They allowed us, so we got tea and we talk,
talk until 6pm. They opened again then we had
dinner. That was the kind of, you know, once
two guys. Click, I'll tell you first. He clicked
over a common subject. And those days, everything
is new. There's nothing for you to compare. He's
just really trying to shape things. And when
he brought this band called Something Special.
Remember Something Special. It rings a bell,
man. Something Special, Aliu Award. Aliu Award.
Winner in Philippines. When you're Aliu Award
winner, you are the top. Get the permits in for
Perluminos. And then, she get... Permit, no problem.
Wait, wait. Let me tell you. There's another
story. Foreign permit. Here you are. Because
I wasn't able to get. Yes. Okay, here you are.
You are asking, but this thing takes three hours,
you know. No, just submit it. No, no. This part,
no, this part won't take three hours. But if
you continue in this mode, I can go deep into
things that will take hours. But anyway, if you're
not going anywhere, I'm not going. It's like,
well, you notice. No, but what I'm about to say
is... Then, something special was the eye -opener.
Right. But before, and they were the first club
outside of Europa Changi that used sawmen. Okay.
I was the first in Singapore. I'm very proud.
Yeah, I remember that little cage at the side.
Yeah, Mr. T. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The T guy. He
looked like Mr. T. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember
him. And then, of course, in Rainbow, it was
something else. The Hillsclays, the Heart of
Water Road, and you put the bench, something
special. my God, all the girls look so beautiful.
Yeah. They can sing so well. They dance so well.
Yeah. And they're all fair Filipinos. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. The Spanish -looking types. There is a
lady, she bodies. Her name is Babe Conti. Oh,
Babe Conti. She doesn't look, I mean, she's not
sunlight, you know. So, but she, fantastic. That
was very smart of me to be Filipino. Waves came
in again. So, what happened was, when we, When
we opened Peppermint Pound, the thing is, before
anything started, the newspaper started talking.
And then we already said we wanted this, we wanted
that. So I was targeting the Filipino. There's
a reason for that. Our local band, when I saw
something special, there's a lot of things Singaporeans
can learn. Musician, budding musician, potential
musician, people want to go into this trade.
They can learn what nightlife can be. The kind
of performance on stage is not just sitting there.
It's a show band. Dance, choreography. And then
later on, then I went to the Philippines. Philippines.
And I had to look. Then this group called Music
and Magic was the latest winner. They not only
sing and perform, they do magic, they are entertaining.
dancing and jump and whatnot. And they perform
at Sapirin Park. They're the top. Then I bought
this band called Z -Band. Z. Z -Band. They're
from Cebu. Cebu, their music is all about their
rhythm, you know. Fantastic. And then there's
this band called Sikada. So you got in more foreigners.
All foreigners. The Filipino band explosion was
because of our idea that is. Yes, I got a whole
lot. And each band is like eight pieces. APs.
For me, to get a Malaysian band in, I can't even
do it. I come to that. I come to that. So, APs.
And you got three of them APs, 24 of them. And
we got not enough slot. But I already don't care.
I already stand 1 .4 million in the place. What
is the other bank? But I remember there were
two local bands there. One is Tanya. Right. The
other one is Hang Loose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. K.
Hamid. K. Hamid and Iskandar Ismail formed the
band. Yeah. Okay, the story about Iskandar Ismail,
I used to go to Hilton Hotel, Lobby Lau. Right.
There were three -piece band. The drummer is
Louis Stan. Louis Uliano. Louis Uliano. The bassist
is Eddie Jensen. The bassist is Eddie Jensen.
Eddie Jensen, yeah. And Iskandar keyboard. Yeah.
He's always there. But they always had their
issues because before I told Iskandar, then he
formed Hangloose. And K. Hamid became our Singapore
Oliver Newton John. Yeah, man. Death band, I
tell you. K. Hamid and Hangloose. Foo -yo. Yeah,
the bad. Then they became, because you know why?
Iskandar was the only one from Berkeley University
School of Music. He was the only one at that
time. This guy is really great. That's why being
a Chinese, you never want to get in. Because
back then, Hokkien and all, you didn't want to
get in all this. It's all English, right? It's
all English because my roots are English. But
they don't want you to start. No, but they don't
have Chinese yet. Later, I come to that. So,
they don't want much later. So, this is the period
where we all, there was an explosion. Then there
was a lot of resistance from local bands. Because
then they formed a union. They said, why are
we engaging foreigners when we don't give the
job to local? This is where the issue started.
So what happened was, then I said something,
which is very true. Until today, I think people
realise I wasn't wrong. Because I said, we need
to be exposed to the best. At Filipino, we can
still afford to bring them in. And the thing
is, when you're exposed to the best, then we
can be even better. So that was the main reason.
And lower cost, right? Not cheap, because accommodation
alone is very important. If you want an apartment,
we pay their tax as well. Those days, I think
there's small levy. But what I'm trying to say
here is, not an issue. Then the objection came
up, and there was this thing about... the first
quota came out. One for one. You have one band,
you must have one local. Right. Then you balance
out. But that was, at that time, it was the right
thing. Good exposure was already there. Yeah.
And then, then they know there's a potential,
there's competition. Right, yeah. Everyone's
got to up their game. Yeah, up their, yeah. So
therefore, the thing, you know, the thing, so
a lot of things actually, unimpeachable also.
I mean, I could not plan this for Singapore.
I only juggled myself. I said, you know, things
like that, I must come up with a song enough
reason to justify why I'm bringing them in so
that I don't have poise. Yeah. So, how difficult
is it today for you to get them in? Because bullets
and our levy, it's not as, it's not small. Our
levy is huge. It depends on qualification. Let
me tell you, when I did St. James, I had so many
foreign bands. Yeah, I know. The whole Movida
foreign band. Yeah, yeah. Poiler Room Filipino
band, Movida South American band. Then I have
this, what do you call that? Jack and Clyde?
Chinese. Hong Kong band. Hong Kong band, yeah.
We have all this, you know. Mandelport. Mandelport.
But the thing, the magic, you asked me this very,
very relevant question. I think I may... Water?
Yeah, one of them. But this time, the same dosage,
but half the water. But Rosie, you know, I'm
pretty sure as opposed... I mean, compared to...
I don't have to compare. Practically everybody
in retail today. F &B included, right? Struggling
with high rentals. Are you struggling with high
rentals? Higher wages, you mean? Rentals. Oh,
rental, yes. It's a big headache? Yes. I'm not
sure if I can say this, but this is under...
Right. So ours is private. Right. So... This
venue is owned by... Yeah. Good. So you don't
have a problem? Why? My headache is the rental.
So like... It's all cheaper. This place is owned
by a private guy. Let's say an ordinary businessman
or just an ordinary landlord. Then his whole
lifestyle depends on what he collects from here.
Basically, he can add his whim and fancy every
time. You see, I've been to this whole thing.
us look for space, I always check. The landlord,
we establish like a REIT or a conglomerate. What
they want is making sure that the fair return
yield. Right. But they also worry that if somebody
else is willing to pay more, they should not
let go. They should not ignore. Right. Put it
this way. Right. But they also prefer stability
so that you don't have all the... You don't want
to see you die. I do have that. I do have that.
That means all these years, so far so good. Yeah.
You don't want to see you die. So because there's
no disruption to these things. Did you ever encounter
these kind of issues when you were running all
your businesses? I did what? Yeah, I know like
the tuition costs. The tuition costs. How did
you deal with it? How did you deal with all these?
I used Option. Option. Before I signed, because
they want me. They look for me when you reach
a certain stage. Right. So then on my term, and
then I will put in an option for cap the rental
renewal at fair price, usually 15 % to 20 % max.
Is that kind of game still playable today? Yeah,
contractual. You have a rental renewal cap. No,
big companies, they don't do. But let's say you
are big enough, They want you to put your terms.
Well, thank you. This one I must remember. No,
it's weird, but it's true. I have not drank whiskey
from a straw ever before. This is an exception.
You don't have to ask like that. When you drink
beer with a straw, you better make sure you take
a taxi. You're also careful. We're just careful,
yeah. I don't have a diving license. And it's
not because of the drinking diving. It's not
because of drinking and driving. It's because
of... This is the price I pay to be a nightlife
officer. Since 1986, I stopped renewing my license
because if I continue driving, it's a matter
of time I get caught. So that's the price. And
today, I'm 72 already. How far do you start?
Quite a big sacrifice anyway, right? No big.
Not just that, because when things, I had a driver
who was 30 years old. Right. So that helped a
lot. You know, Dennis, Rosie faces this issue.
I think this is a very compelling, no, I would
say it's compelling. There's no fact it annoys
the living crap out of me. I've heard what some
people, excuse me, had to say about neighborhood
bars. And it's so poor thing. You know the neighborhood?
You know, so poor thing. The poor kid studying
for his O -Levels, next door, one bloody bar
away. On the other hand, I turn around and I
say, if you have bought a place, knowingly, next
door to a bar, or for that matter, a pickleball
court. Nowadays, people call pekabu pickleball.
Bunch of numbnuts. Right? Or any place that has
got some amount of noise, you know, and you bought
that place, you have to manage your expectations.
Or on the other hand, if you bought that place
already and these things come after, there's
this thing of shut the bloody window. You know?
But no. What some operators have encountered,
I'm not just saying exclusive to Mel's place,
would be some people within a vicinity will come
to them and show you the decibel meter. Oh. Which,
yeah. You know, and look how loud this is now.
I mean, it's so smug. You know, it's so smug,
you know what I mean? So there's a lot of red
tapes. There's a lot of red tapes. And then,
of course, the operator will worry about their
licenses, you know? Whether or not the authorities
will renew their payment licenses because of
the uncertainty. Because people, it just seems
that the authorities do like to pander towards
a lot of complaints coming from a lot of karens.
No, I can understand this very well. That's why,
you know, this amenity comes in many different
shapes. Right. So this is the KPI of a particular
agency. And now you have this life issue. Because
if you are in a residential area, this is where
the issue is. Residential area. Because when
residents complain, they have to act. If they
don't act, then there's another issue. If they
act, then it's going to impact the operator.
Yeah. And then how do you act? Then you have
to cut down. When you cut down, for example,
the noise, you can do certain things like soundproofing
your live area, you can put double door, all
the physical you can do. But the people who move
around and they start drinking and start like
in a stupor and then the behavior walking around,
then that becomes an issue that is not so easy
to control. Because this is the form from all
the night. But, but, but, well, specific to male
space, I don't see that happening anywhere. Basically,
okay. So, I'm with, I'm on this side. Okay? So,
I see things in the, but I also must understand
what's the reason they're doing it. So, when
complaints come in, why is the issue? So, people
have the right to complain and that is quite
fair lah. Yeah. But your complaint must be fair
also lah. Yeah. Right. So, now, They used to
be, like for example, if you stay in a certain
area in Singapore where there's nightlife already,
you're expected. So for me, I actually walked
him around. So he wanted to speak to the bosses.
So I said, okay, let's do a closure because he's
been texting my manager and all. So I actually
walked him, showed him what we've done. So back
then, smoking was behind. Yeah. Okay. So, then
the smoking was behind. I already chained the
whole place. So, I was smoking whenever there's
light ban, smoking is up front. So, away from
the residential. To me, because I'm not involved,
I can say something very open. This one is overdone,
overkill by him. This is something, you don't
go to this extent to... No, but I'm walking in.
But how much has it impacted his life? But do
you know that if you stop running this, it will
impact so many people's lives? Correct. How much
does it impact? It doesn't cut him one year shortly
by one year. I think you're basically stoking
his ego just because you're... No, no, no. I'm
a third party. I'm saying the rosy by showing
him around and listening to him. Because I'm
trying to... No, what I'm saying is I'm talking
as a third party. I want to give a fair comment.
You'll be looking at your own silo. He'll be
looking at his own silo. But his silo is over.
Over. Okay lah. So for him, sometimes, you know,
a band actually plays just maybe 2 minutes, 3
minutes, 4 minutes, 5 minutes. So anyway, so
the band... I think you got another reason why
he keep coming to ask for your, or your whatever,
communicating with you. Cannot be this. Nobody
will bother to do this. He took video. He took
video. Like, see, you've exceeded the noise,
you know, you've exceeded this and that. So,
but sometimes the band just, you know, in their
element, you know, they were just strong and
they continue just five minutes. And for me,
it's like, please, enough, stop, stop, you know?
You've seen that, right? You've seen me stopping
the band and all. So it's just... It's terrible,
really. And this guy, to me, he's stoking his
own ego by saying, you know, by coming around
and making these kind of complaints. Using noise
as an excuse. He feels great. They want some
people to pacify him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which
is? I don't know. I believe they get enough from
whoever he lives with. You know, it doesn't make
sense. You go to this extent. You know, if there's
really some issue, you just go to the relevant
authority. You make your complaint. He did, he
did. Okay. So the relevant authority took the
position. They want to look at the bigger picture
of everything. You know, they have to... I wouldn't
say compromise. They will have to do this. You
got what you call track record. Track record
is the best proof for anything. Well, you know,
people can complain time and time and time. You
got any points? So far, nothing. It's just like
there was a slew of... We know that we are in
the books. Anywhere popular will be. If you got
no problem, means you got no business. You understand
what I'm trying to say? So that's where the issue
is. You know why? I come back to this question.
Very, very pertinent issue. Because if you...
This thing about nightlife for you to thrive,
you need to meet a lot of conditions. And you
have to anticipate all this. That's why in the
planning, for example, Like, you take Kaki, it
was the place to go to. Then suddenly things
change because the residences are sprouting out.
And in anticipation, because often we're going
to come. And then you have to compromise and
then you change the shape. So that's why the
planning part is very important. You want to
do a zoning, you make sure it's zoned properly.
You want to issue a license, okay? you also need.
But now that it's done, it's not easy to pull.
I mean, status quo. To shift status quo, then
you have a very, very good reason. And you say
30 people complain from all walks of life living
here, then you got an issue. To me, if one person
complain in his own perspective. No, he will
say that I'm on behalf. Yeah, he says that he
represents that. That's not the point. I mean,
this is on air. I mean, this is recorded. So,
like what? No, no. Because we don't mention the
guy's name. We are talking about a very general
scenario. So, you ask my opinion. Basically,
you've really become 30, 40 people from different
walks of life. They need to be tested. It must
not be coordinated. If it's coordinated, there's
another story. Sorry? He said it's not loud enough.
It's not that it's not loud enough. I'm just
saying that the music has to compromise so much.
You know, that the music is so watered down.
You know, and we get quality that goes down the
drain. The customers, you see, you know, they
don't get to enjoy the food. Put it this way.
For Mel's place, to survive through COVID, let's
bring up. And today, I can tell you, this place
is doing very well. Good. Not yet, not yet. It's
doing very well. Compared to most others. You
know, it's doing very well. I mean, I don't have
to be here. I hear the things people say, you
know, Friday night, it's like jam under, don't
know where jam. And then, frankly, before everybody
comes here, we'll be inside. Yeah. The atmosphere
is already here outside. Because GMT. Yeah. Sorry,
Chevy's. That's live. That's live. That's live
from Chevy's. No, I know, I know. Yes, there's
a whole place, katong. It's a katong thing. So
that's like a salt. Yes, so they are coming back
because, oh. Okay, my friend, the answer to all
these things is called vibrancy. Mouthpiece creates
vibrancy in katong. It's not noise in katong.
So continue to vibrate. Continue to vibrate.
Today, did you, did you, did you, everybody is
using the word vibrant. Yeah. Passing the parting
shot of the National Day Rally speech by Lawrence
Wong, the word was vibrancy. That was the last
line he said. Let's go and check. Vibrancy. And
so, why kill vibrancy? On that note, on that
note, why kill vibrancy? On that note, Dennis,
what specific changes will you tell the government
are most important? For the nightlife scene to
stay healthy in the long run. That is a very,
very good question. Not loaded, just a good question.
No, no. That's a very good question. Definitely
not. My answer is well loaded. We all know there's
a problem. We all know that this problem, that
problem. But how to make it, how to piece everything,
you know? Okay. This is where the answer I see
lies in the word by chance. Of course, we heard
this word. everywhere. The answer lies in the
word vibrancy. Still. Like I said, just now,
earlier on, before we started, to remain only
as the cleanest, greenest, safest, most efficient
and healthiest city in Southeast. The vivid world
will pass Singapore by. The vivid world. Okay.
Singapore must become more lively and exciting,
a fun place. Okay. This word comes from our founding
father himself. From Mr. Pinkfield? Yes. We say
this in Parliament. Of course, we don't hold
his word for it, but there's a message there.
Right. Frankly, what do we have? Yeah. You know,
nightlife is the integral part of a cosmopolitan
metropolis, a global city like Singapore. The
word global city has been used many times of
late. Right. To be a global city, you need vibrancy.
Yeah. Okay. Now, this thing will attract, will
complement our overall tourism product. It will,
it will support the F &B sector. Right. Okay,
earlier on, before the shoot, we spoke about
the F &B business has been impacted because nightlife
is in decline. Right. The answer came because
the biggest, I found out, the biggest restaurant
chain in Singapore, after midnight sales, dropped
by more than 50 % from 10 years ago. Why is that
so? It's no more supper club. No one goes out
for supper. No, even the streets. You drive ECP
here, you go PIE, after 11pm on a Saturday night,
you look at the cars. Okay? There's no nightlife.
It's dead. So you use the word demise of nightlife.
I tend not to disagree. Where's the softer way
of putting it? Too kind. It's a softer way to
put it. I mean, But the thing is, this, and F
&B is not small. Right. I went to check, because
prior to this interview, I thought I'd come with
some facts. Nightlife is small. Surprisingly
small. How small? It is, it was 675 million per
annum. Okay. Across all nightlife industry. 2015.
Right, okay. 10 years ago. 10 years ago, okay.
Today, post -COVID, the figure I got in 2022,
it dropped to 285 million. Almost 60 % drop.
Holy shit. But this is precisely the point. The
impact is on F &B also. Okay. Today, I hear famous
store, like I mentioned earlier, Apparently,
now there's a switch. So now, sprouting out over
here is, what do you call that? Like a brunch?
Like a brunch, yes. And then, apparently, there's
this new thing. Coffee clubbing? Okay. Do you
know about the coffee clubbing? No. I come to
that later. Okay? I come to that later. Yeah,
it's a news angle. It's a news angle. It's a
news angle. Is it rampant? I doubt. Can it go
there? Yeah. Okay. It's a sorry angle. That's
what the mainstream media puts out these days.
Sorry. No, I wouldn't say that. But I'm just
saying that. I'm saying it. Yeah, okay. No, but
the point is, all this, how should I put it?
Okay, now we translate. It's very small. Yeah.
But F &B is not small and they are under threat
because of the rising cost as well. Okay, face,
all the manpower. And basically, and they have
40 hours of operation now. The number for F &B
is not small, okay? It employs more than 5 %
of our workforce. That's not small. It is the
annual turnover of all the F &B together is close
to $30 billion, okay? Whoa, whoa, whoa. F &B,
you're talking about food, restaurants? All in.
So, but nightlife is only contributory to 200
plus million? Yes. Of the how much billion? Yes.
30 billion. That's ridiculous. No, no. Correct.
Of course, everybody has to eat. Okay? Drink,
not everybody needs to drink. But because it's
strong, and because once you swing, like I told
you, what we are selling is atmosphere. The more
it's strong, the less atmosphere there is. It
becomes a vicious cycle. And perpetually, it
just will disappear. Because, why pay, especially
the cost of alcohol now is expensive. Right.
You know, we are going to vicious cycle after
vicious cycle. Right. That's why, how to reverse
this cycle? Yeah. You asked me that question,
I said, unless, we feel, see there is real value
in that life. Right. From the angle of the economy.
Right. And the angle is real. This angle is,
without nightlife, restaurant will be in backless.
Right. Clear. Right. I gave you the answer. The
biggest restaurant chain after midnight sale
10 years ago and now dropped by more than half.
Yeah. That is one answer. Our costs are rising.
Operating hours are shorter because there's lack
of people going out at night. Okay? And then
there's one part. Second part, this is important.
Tourism is an important component. It's not just
about the absolute GDP contribution. Right. But
it's about Singapore as... The city -state. A
global city -state. Singapore has a global city
-state. Everybody knows we don't have hinterland,
we don't have natural resources here. It is what
the vision was. Cosmopolitan, metropolis, global
city. Built on ideas as well. So basically, without
this nightlife component, it is an integral part.
We have a cosmopolitan metropolis. Without that,
then... How do we appeal to foreign investors?
How do we appeal to tourists even? Our tourist
numbers went up very high, but it is not as if
it is slamming. And the thing is, if you imagine
MICE event, meeting, incentive, convention, after
their convention, you don't know where to go
back to room. Up the side, see, after dinner,
go back to the room. And our room is $400, $500.
A night. Nothing better to do. Basically, in
Singapore, I came to Singapore, what did I do?
Fuck all. Okay, there's a change. So nowadays,
youngsters, they're more into fitness. So all
these fitness centers are sprouting out. Wait,
we are talking about two different things. Two
different things. Because... Basically, there's
a local component, there's a foreign component.
But in between... But the point is, our local
component is shrinking. Because the lifestyle
changed. Young people are not going out. They're
not engaging. What you're thinking is that they've
become so health conscious. I don't think that's
the case. No? All the reasons they put, there's
no... incentive. No, there's no compelling concept
and entertainment. Basically, they're saying
it's boring. Yes. And frankly, I've been talking
about this on my own socials for the last one
week about Singaporeans being boring and it is
fucking true. Singaporeans be boring? Singaporeans
are boring. No, Singaporeans are not boring.
They are boring. Singaporeans become bored. When
there is no attraction for them to go. Choke,
sir. Choke, sir. I don't like to interrupt you,
but I need to really put my case across. I went
for a concert last week. You should have seen
the video I've taken and posted on my socials.
Numb nuts, numb nuts, numb nuts, numb nuts. Numb
as shit. Sitting down there, great music being
played, and they're just like that. Like the
team, no? No, no, no. It's a whole freaking hall.
And then the people who are dancing, You're looking
at them like, what is wrong with you? Because
places, there are places in Singapore, great
places, where you have great, wonderful venues
and theatres and stuff. And you've got stupid
rules. You cannot stand up. You cannot dance.
You cannot get along the aisles. Then everybody
becomes what I term a numbnut. Basically frozen
testicles. All have frozen testicles. Don't power
the party. The Eurasian peoples were the... People
on the bus are going up and dancing. Everyone
else is going, what are these crazy people? They
have rules to control you. They do. I went for
an open and fire concert in New York Stadium
years ago. The rule is still in effect, by the
way. And we were dancing. It's open and fire,
right? I was told by the usher, he's got to sit
down. I said, no, make me. But he was kind of
strange. You know why? So if Taylor Swift comes
here, then how? That's the thing. I didn't go
for that. To be fair, I went for the one for
U2, National Stadium, where Taylor Swift was
to perform, right? We were getting up, we were
doing this. Nobody stopped us, but the people
sitting around said, Kelo, sit down. And I tell
him, shut up, make me sit down. You know what
I mean? But for me, I stand around. These rules
have become part and parcel of life, in my opinion.
Our people go, cannot do, cannot do it. And then
on top of that, on top of that, our dear PM,
our current PM, actually did say recently, it's
okay, I know we're boring, but we are stable,
we're practical. Can you please, sir, Prime Minister,
do not encourage this. Because when you become
that kind, boring, you lose some creativity,
in my opinion. You lose innovation. You lose
the gutsy, risk -taking attitude. You lose all
that. And I'm so damaged, so disappointed when
I sit there and I see these people doing this
and they always have the rules to really fall
back on. Just like that dude that comes around
here. He's just saying that love. Yeah, they
got that little safety that makes him so smug
about it, you know? And that's something I can't
stand. And I think, yes, I think we have become
boring. And then I also think that bar operators
today, they go Spotify DJ. They no longer hire
even a DJ. Right? Yeah, don't even have a DJ.
Do you Spotify DJs? No kidding. When I'm breaking
copyright laws, by the way, it's against copyright.
Even when I'm playing Spotify on air, it's for
personal consumption only. And then check with
Compass about that rule. You don't hire a DJ.
You don't hire more. You don't even hire a live
band. If you hire a live band, you probably hire
one guy, two guys. Because, Chris, because I've
got to pull so much rent, my business is not
so good. My point of view is this. If you guys
come, really come together, I don't know, Singapore
Nightlife Association, whatever, come together
and say, guys, let's give this a go. Show the
young people what really entertainment is all
about. You know? Get the musos business as well.
Give them work to do. And then we drive it. You
know, and show the young ones today, the Gen
Zers, look, Xennials, this is what it is. This
is what you've missed. Don't miss it anymore.
Right? And all the Karens out there, male and
female Karens, Karens, will come around and try
to stop this from happening. I mean, get a life.
Stop being eunuchs. You know what I mean? Walking
around, you've got balls in the jar. Wake up.
I really think it's really sad. Singapore used
to be, when you were, when you were the king,
man, my God, Dennis, without you, I think I'd
be boring. Okay. Actually, on Nightlife, something,
you see, it's, I remember, this was 1986. I only
started six years. Singapore nightlife wasn't
like fantastic. Right. There was a will. There
was a will. Political will. Yeah. I was invited.
Very interesting. I was invited by the permanent
secretary then. Right. Of the then Ministry of
Culture. Okay. To City Hall. The ministry was
in City Hall. Right. Two other guys was with
me. Right. One is Jimmy Lo from Jasper Production.
You wonder? He used to bring in Miami sound,
then Donnie Young, he used to bring in Miami
sound machine and me. For some reason, because
maybe I make so much noise in the Peppermint
Park at lunch, I was invited. The main thing
is because they wanted to promote entertainment
in the chemical. I was a young man then, 86,
I was probably 30 plus. You know, I didn't know
it was a permanent sex until much later. My first
meeting in any government body, I sit down there.
I don't know what we're talking. Malaysia got
this open Putrao World Trade Centre. I did a
concert there at the Putrao World Trade Centre.
Okay. Another city, they got Stadium Nagara.
You know what we got? Nobody got a badminton
hall. How do you promote that like entertainment?
I'm blunt enough to talk like that. Those days,
I don't know how to be scared. You know? I said,
we must at least have an indoor stadium. Then
you walk. By the way, what's your name? You wrote
my name down. What happened? I don't know. Very
fast. Once they make the decision, five years
later, indoor stadium will be built. 1991. So
political will. Political will. Hey, that stadium
is not simple during that time to create. Because
Japanese architect will be... and political will.
And today, there is no regret in that stadium.
And now they're thinking of even improving it.
They want to take it down. So, progress. It's
part and parcel of progress. Yeah, but not just
for international stars coming here, but concerts
about our people. So, if you listen, the reason
I'm very clear, I was a show promoter, I brought
many B -list acts. The A -list, like Michael
Jackson, Eric Clapton. Two other companies, they
bid for it, but I don't want to go into the bidding
process. So those, that's that. All, out of the
A list, B list I take. I did Air Supply three
times. Right. I did Tinkerbird. I did John Denver.
These are all the concerts. Right. And, many,
many, many of the Bs. But the thing about, about
this, this, what do you call that? Political
will. Sorry? Political will. Political will.
You know, today, we are counting on this. Right.
The reason, you know why the Taylor Swift, the
Coldplay, they are coming here. As a former promoter,
I understand why. Because in Singapore, they
can command the best dollar. People are willing
to pay. Because Singapore set the tone, not shift.
That's why the ticket price in that net, the
whole concert, they will rip the most from this
region in Singapore. That's the only reason.
They're not because they like you or whatever.
It's all about money. So simple. You understand
what I'm saying? But the thing is, the moment
all your other parks fall out and you do not
have the tourism attraction to... Because it's
the region they're bringing in, not just Singapore.
Singaporeans alone cannot sustain all these concerts.
The ecosystem must be stable. So how do you do
it? If your attractions and your other thing
is not strong enough. Yeah. And these people
entertain our tourists. Yeah. Our tourists entertain.
Yeah. Then you have an issue with events like
this. I already talked about BT Mice earlier
on. Now I'm talking about concerts. They are
priding themselves now. Yeah. But don't take
it for granted. Yeah. So, Bottom line is your
ecosystem, like you say. The vibrancy culture
must be there. So that there is this. But of
course, in Singapore, no city can do it better
than us. Because we are small enough, strong
enough to regulate. Right. And if you can do
this, win -win both sides. Yeah. And everybody
will have the expectation to come here. You don't
expect bang, bang, bang like the... We're going
to have an earthquake kind of bank to complain,
you know. But I'm trying to say that you will
have a bit of sound and you will take it as part
and parcel of this. And that will be okay. We
can talk about DNA. Yeah. So if you really be
quiet, then you go rent this place. Right. Around
something, you rent somewhere else. Where there
is like, you go inside Torokraw, no L, no K,
nothing. Why don't you take East Coast Road,
Main Road? But at night, if this place thrives
as an F &B outlet, we'll be walking out with
a few drinks, we'll murmur and talk, talk, talk,
then that will be an issue. It will be an issue,
never mind the music. So everything can be an
issue. I mean, so end of the day is what you
want. A vibrant Singapore is better or not. If
it is better, then you must accommodate certain
parts of it. Because currently, right now, we
are not vibrant Singapore. We are boring Singapore.
I wouldn't say that. We are about the people.
It's okay. You still got chance. Everybody is
telling me that. I always think about it. But
it shows you the sentiment on the ground. This
is what it is. Everybody tells me. Yeah. See,
everyone's sentiment is the same. It's sad. Okay,
hang on. Number delight. Okay, I got to say this.
I got to say this. How long have we been on?
Okay, so this is where we have to say goodbye
because this is going to be a two -parter, I'm
pretty sure, right, Kai? I want to say... Yo,
okay. Can you... Seriously, have you... I thought
it was subject proper. No, this wasn't subject
proper. You did say everything you wanted to
say. No, I have not. I've got so much to say.
When you're used to my experience... Not within
one hour, no. We did talk about revival as well.
Not deep enough. Not deep enough, right? How
to revive, that is the question, my friend. Okay,
let's end with that, shall we? Do you need to
go take a leak? Yes. Please do take a leak. Okay.
Take a break, then we talk. I need to pee pee.
Thank you everyone for your patience because
we had to take a little pee break. As you can
tell, we are in Mel's place and what do we have
at Mel's place? We have a little bit of adult
beverages that makes us want to go pee. And we're
back. And we're back only for the next five minutes
or so because I would like to listen to what
Mr. Dennis Foo has to say about what we need
here in Singapore to revitalize, to revive this
ailing animal called nightlife. Dennis, over
to you. Okay, I've been hearing the word revitalizing.
Everybody is using in print revitalizing, okay?
You know, revitalizing is one way to look at
it. there's something there to bring it out.
Right. Today, what I'm hearing everywhere, including
from you, Rosie, that nightlife is dead. Right.
So, revitalizing something that is dead is not
appropriate. What is it? Why? It's like CPR,
you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Research is at best.
Let's give it mouth to mouth. Most cases, you
know. But, I'm serious about this because the
numbers don't lie. Yes, sir. And everybody I
speak to, including you today, And you are in
the business for too many years. It's revive.
To revive is more difficult than to revitalize.
To revitalize, if there's something there, we
make it to bloom. The thing is almost gone, then
it's revive. To revive is more difficult than
to revitalize. In that sense. To revive nightlife
today in Singapore, you need what I use the term
disectomy. It's not so simple as just to do a
few things that you can revive the life. To revive
nightlife, the fundamentals must be there. In
this new world, where we see so many obstacles,
first you have the four things I said. After
midnight, private transport issue because no
appealing concepts is another one. And that is
a result of lack of market. Hence, there is no
people, even if there's a passion, they would
want to go into something because a good concept
costs money. There's got to be supply, basically.
There's got to be supply. A good, decent supply.
So, everything will start with demand. Right.
You can change the rules, you can extend the
hours, but these are all, to me, still piecemeal.
So, if you go to the fundamental, you must look
at the demand side of the equation first. What
I call latent demand. Okay. When I started, I
didn't know this. There was a latent demand.
It's there. So when you create something, this
demand surfaced. And they respond. And that became
a business at that time. That single series of
other people, like -minded people, were also
going to do business. And then the industry grew.
And then there was a point where government believed
that this is a contributor. Whether it is to
kind of distress the populace or to attract.
create another layer to attract tourists whatever
the reason they were committed to that's why
we saw indoor stadium 1991 right you know and
today you need the same commitment but the premise
the prerequisite must be what can nightlife do
to Singapore positively okay I have the answer
the answer you can do a lot if you do it well
okay You must do it well. And basically, the
word vibrancy surfaced all the time. Right. Without
a good nightlife industry, which I already said,
it supports the F &B. Right. Okay, it reinforces
even retail potential. Right. Well, I want to
say this so that in one stroke, I can... I can
kind of express. I sent a note to one of the
political office holders. I read this. Hope our
meeting went well and that our ideas will help
to revive Singapore's nightlife and in turn contribute
to our overall tourism, strengthen our F &B sector,
reinforce our retail trade, bring more room nights
to the hotel. Draw more visitors in the day and
at night to our attractions. Compliment our BT
MICE events. Create, sell out international concerts
and events. And make Singapore a must -visit
cosmopolitan metropolis. A global city to work,
live and play. If this is compelling enough,
then we should do something about it. This is
the equation. Hell yeah. So you must understand
why you need to do this. This is the reason I've
been here. Right. And it makes a lot of sense,
Dennis. Right? Yeah. So, so once the cause, as
in C -A -U -S -E, is established, then the way
forward, and there are so many ways forward,
is whether we have the political will. So it
still boils down to that, huh? Yeah, simple.
I mean, it's not difficult. We look at the, but
if it's compelling enough, then do it. And Singapore
can do it. I also share with you one thing. Yes.
All over the world, one of the things to take,
young people are not going out. Yeah. All over
the world, not Singapore problem. Right. But
tourists are travelling. Right. Most of the tourists,
I probably not wrong here, belong to Gen X and
Gen Y. Yeah. Okay. Do you agree? Yes. They have
the means and the opportunity. They have the
means and they are at the age of travel. Right.
And they are here. If you do a study, the demographic
review that for tourists. And these people are
here in Singapore. And you have something like
that for them. Let's say a zone where there is
all this entertainment, nightlife. They don't
have to go back to their room after convention.
They don't have to go back to their room after
side -sitting dinner. And then they will spread
the word around and our tourism will grow. Yes.
Or be strengthened or be reinforced or whatever
the term you want to use. Right. So, if tourism
can thrive, many other things will fall in place.
Right. Okay. So, basically, and it's not difficult.
We spoke earlier on about the noise, pollution
and all the role of Singapore. All over certain
areas, especially near residents. A nightlife
zone may not be in this kind where you have these
amenities and we trigger a lot of complaints.
But once you establish that, then other precincts
will also pick it up. Right. The culture is established.
Yes, exactly. And then they will not. And then
the local, can you imagine the local? we have
a reason to go out. And then, tourists, they
not just visit entertainment zone, they all want
to try other Singapore places. And then that
Singapore, a global city, a cosmopolitan metropolis
our forefathers envisioned it to be. Final question
I'd like to ask both of you. It's open to the
floor. Dennis mentioned succinctly about political
will. Do you personally believe that there will
be a political will for this to take off and
for nightlife to be revived? Do you think? Or
change has to happen. What kind of change? The
government, I would say. Yeah, so would there
be a political will in your opinion? I tell you
what. Yeah. This one is a very sensitive word
today. And I believe anything for the betterment
of Singapore, they will want to do a study. Right.
Start to do a study. Once the study is there,
there will be pros and cons. If the pros overwhelm
the cons, then you create a system to address
the cons and promote the pros. Okay. I'd like
to thank the both of you for being on the show.
Thank you for being on my season premiere. Thank
you so very much to the both of you for always
holding up music, at least where I am sitting.
Yeah. for this country and bringing music to
another level. And for still believing, Rosie,
that having bands up there. Don't stop believing.
Oh, yeah. And a lot of the day feeling. A lot
of thing is like a cake. We already created the
cake. And even add cream on top of the cake.
Number two fight. That one really is a cherry
on top of the tea to make it a thing. What did
I think of punch? What the hell did I think of
cherry? The icing on the cake with the cherry
on top. Well, thank you so very much. And again,
thank you for really holding up music and night
scene in Singapore. Really, I'm heartened and
I will continue in my own little tiny itsy bitsy
way. to continue to fight, especially for our
local musos and our local performers and entertainers
of whom I really have a heart for. And to all
Singaporeans out there, we used to have this
DNA in our blood. It flows so freely in our bloodstream.
And that's about music and having a great time.
And it's not sinful to do that. It is not about
being drunk and disorderly. And it's not about
dance. When you dance, it's disorderly. That's
crazy. So let's get it all back. Let's have a
life. Let's have a nightlife. Thank you for watching
the first episode for Season 6, the season premiere
of the Chris Hansen Conversation. I hope you
enjoyed this one. It's a hell of a long one.
But I'll see you again next week when we come
back. I'll have Corporal KP in studio and in
CC. I will do that, Dennis. And this is Chris
Hansen. Stay safe, everybody. See you soon. Bye
-bye.