WEBVTT

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I use the word social engineering. Okay. And

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this person just blast me outright and say, Michael,

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you say social engineering. I didn't see any

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social engineering at all. I said, no, social

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engineering is not boats and nuts and fuel oil

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and steam engines. Was that what they were thinking?

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Yeah, he was thinking like that. And I explained

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to him that social engineering is manipulating

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minds, right? Hi, and welcome back to the Chris

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Hansen Conversation. This is the second last

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episode before we end season five. And with me

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in studio, I have someone who wears quite a number

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of hats. He is a writer, a producer, a director,

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a lecturer, even an author, and an award -winning

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actor. But believe it or not, He's also a cybersecurity

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consultant. I'm getting fucking confused here.

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And that's what I'm here to do, to find out what

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exactly is wrong with this guy on this series

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of I Love My Job with the accidental award -winning

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actor, Michael Chua. Welcome to the studio, man.

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Thank you. Thank you, Chris. Thanks for coming

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down all this way to have this chit -chat with

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me. And it's really an honor, man, to have you

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here. you know a guy who is an award winning

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actor and I have this you heard me say I'm confused

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I need to sort out this muddle if someone asks

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Michael what do you do at a dinner party how

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would you describe yourself and the work that

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you love oh normally I would just say I teach

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because then everybody understand then they'll

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probably ask, what do you teach? Then I say,

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I teach technology and media. Usually that ends

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there. When you say technology, what do you mean?

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What kind of technology? Sometimes they ask that,

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so I say cybersecurity. Wow. Okay. Cybersecurity

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and media. What's the correlation? That's usually

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the next question. So we see, you've been in

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the company of bright people. If I'm asking the

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same question. What's the correlation? Actually,

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there's a lot of commonality. For both professions,

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if I'm going to interview or recruit somebody,

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I'll look at the sense of urgency, concern for

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detail, and a healthy sense of paranoia. So these

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three must be spot on. You have been on set,

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right? As a producer, line producer especially,

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you need to have a healthy sense of paranoia

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or things are going to break up. But I kind of

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have three or four contingency plans, but things

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are going to break up. You know, that kind of

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thing. So in cybersecurity, it's the same. Oh,

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so you are saying that Murphy's Law, what can

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go wrong will go wrong, plays a similar role

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between the work in cybersecurity and media.

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Yes, correct. Film production in specific. Okay,

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you want to expand on that a little bit. Give

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an example. What can go wrong, will go wrong?

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Well, say, suppose, let's go into the cybersecurity

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side. Sure. Where a simple case of lock -in,

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right? When you lock in and say, if that hacker

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is clever enough to guess the password or has

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stolen the password and he got in. So there has

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to be another step to check on people already

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in the perimeter fence, but without them knowing.

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Because if they know, then it gets very annoying.

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I already put in, say for legit people, I already

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put in the password and you keep checking, keep

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asking me, that wouldn't work. So there are methods

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to check on people within the perimeter fence.

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It's called... Pervasive security, yeah. Okay.

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Pervasive security means preventive. No, pervasive,

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that means you keep checking on people. Okay,

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keep checking on people. Okay, hang on. I'm trying

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to get this right here. So what you're talking

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about is not about finding out who the hackers

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are, but in telling people how you can protect

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your account. Yes, yes. No, no, no. Say, for

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example, once you get into the parameter fence,

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right, you do some checks without them knowing.

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Say, for example, at a very high end, I don't

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know how many organizations in Singapore practice

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that at all, is that there's something called

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cognitive biometrics where the way you move your

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mouse, right, is you. No! Huh? So that's a signature.

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So if they have already collected enough information,

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the way you type, there's a rhythm to it. So

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if they are really high -end into security, these

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are the things that you will check. A lot of

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people do not know, including the so -called

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cyber security specialists in Singapore. So you

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can actually remotely check. how a person's pattern

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of typing, the mouse movement is like. When they

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type, it will be sent to the server. Oh, okay,

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okay. So, if, I suppose for very high -end systems,

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they have to download an app, right? And everything

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is in the app, right? So, if you move your mouse,

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those are conveyed to the system. So, what can

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go wrong then? No, then if, if this person is

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a bit strange today, The way he moves his mouth

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is different. So you can start quizzing. So they

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might not be the same person, the original person.

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You can start quizzing him or tightening the

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security and all that. So you got to be a paranoid

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person in order to do this. Very, very. But many

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systems don't do that. Okay, okay. I've climbed

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all over the world for many years and Swift,

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for example, was the... global head of information

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security policy and business continuity. Wow.

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So you need to be really paranoid when you have

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the whole world banks transferring trillions

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of dollars on your network. So it has to be secure.

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So there was once when I was implementing a biometric

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system because the administrators have nine or

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16 passwords to remember. Right. And they don't

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remember and guess what? Yeah. They write in

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a notebook, paper notebook. Who doesn't do that?

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Yeah. So we didn't like that because this is

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highly secure system and we didn't like that.

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So we implemented a biometric system because

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this was only fingerprint. So most vendors will

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have your fingerprint taken and then they match

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it. in a technical way. And if it matches, you

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go in. If it doesn't match, you get out. So if

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it doesn't match, you get out. That's good because

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you prevented somebody from going in who didn't

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have the right. But if it gets in, I'm not even

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happy about that because not necessarily happy

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about that. Because if you have a fingerprint

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taken, that data is approximate. Because the

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second time you put your fingerprint there, the

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scanned data is slightly different. Okay. So

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I even checked for what you call repeat attacks.

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So say suppose you have your scanner on your

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desk, right? And you put your fingerprint there

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and it takes the first data, go in and it works.

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Right. But you're the real guy, so it's okay.

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You're the legit guy. But unbeknownst to you,

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somebody has collected this data. It's in your

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fingerprint. Yeah. Okay. And then while you're

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away, he takes this signal, not his hand, not

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his thumb. He replays that data into the system

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and the system says, oh yeah, this is Chris'

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fingerprint. Oh, okay. So to maintain this paranoia,

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which in that business that you are in, is a

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complete... necessity positively, doesn't it

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drive you up the wall? You get used to it. Remember

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the first time you cycle, right, the bicycle?

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Yeah. It's pretty stressful, right? Yeah, okay.

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After some time, it's normal. Once you ride a

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bike, you can always ride a bike. So it becomes

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an occupational hazard sometimes. For example,

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if you go to a check -in to a hotel and they

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have a screen, right? And when she turned around

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to take your thing, you couldn't look into her

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screen. Oh, wow. All kinds of things you can

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think about, man. I want to see that in the movies,

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dude. Speaking of movies, let's talk about the

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paranoia when it comes to the set in media. Yeah,

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on set, a lot of things can go wrong, obviously.

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If you're outdoors, 101 things can go wrong.

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It rains. Or if your getaway car is supposed

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to be there, you run to the getaway car, hop

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in and zoom away. And then on that day, okay

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in Singapore no budget you don't book the host

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on that day somebody parking there so how is

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your car gonna zoom in there and you jump in

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so there has to be a lot of contingency plans

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as to where to put okay it's equivalent to planning

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for a wet weather program and stuff like that

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okay but have it's not you mentioned as an example

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of getting into a getaway car and speeding off

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In Singapore, there's no budget. Fine. Have you

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ever done something like that in your career

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as an actor? Jumping into a getaway car and zooming

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off? In one of my productions, which is a 23

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-minute action scene, there was a scene where

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the, not me, but the lead actor jumped into that

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car and zoomed away. But on that day, the row

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of cars were parked there. Oh, this is Singapore?

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Yeah, yeah. So we couldn't do that. So I... and

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the whole city is packed. Right, of course. Hard

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to find somewhere cinematic, convenient, nice,

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and have a getaway car and zoom away, unless

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you book the street. Which, Michael, proves a

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point, you know. Bank heists can never happen

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in this country. Jam, yeah. So, I have to change

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the script a bit. I have to tweak the script

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a bit. Right, right. Okay, this is you putting

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on that producer's hat. Yeah. What's the common

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thread, a core passion? In both these industries,

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man, is there a commonality? Besides, I'm talking

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about core passion, a common core passion when

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you link the two together. You mentioned about

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paranoia and all, that is a similarity, sure,

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but there must be passion for both. Yeah, I think,

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I haven't thought about it explicitly, but now

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that you ask, I think it's storytelling, funny

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enough. Because when I'm designing a system,

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I'm thinking of what story does that guy have

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to get into my system? Story as in what journey

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he's going to take, right? Okay. Into my system.

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And it's the same for writing scripts and acting

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and directing. Same thing. Yeah, that one is

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definitely writing a story. It's about storytelling

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because a lot of people would take cybersecurity

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as a technical endeavor. Right. Which is, of

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course, you need technical controls and all that.

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But what if you put that control in the wrong

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place? This is not the path that the hacker will

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walk. So it has to be about story. And these

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days, fraud and cybersecurity, there's some interlapse.

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Well, there's a lot of conjuring there, isn't

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it? A lot of speculation, conjuring assumptions.

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Yeah, so these are the stories that fraudsters

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will think about. To get your password or your

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credentials to get into the system. So basically

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putting your mind into the mind of a hacker,

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for example. Yeah. Why would this guy be doing

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it? So it sounds like criminal minds, man. Yeah.

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That's quite a broad subject. So in the front

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end, you think about motivation of crime. And

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motivation of crime is mostly either sex or money.

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I think, I mean, it's not a scientific study.

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About 90 % is either sex or money. So in some

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cases, when you think it's not sex, it's definitely

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money. Then you follow the money trail. There's

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10 % which is very hard to solve because it's

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irrational. Some crazy guy that did this, it's

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irrational. So if you have a quota to meet, say

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if you are an investigator, You have a quota

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to meet, right? Certain crimes to be solved.

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I think I will focus on the 90 % and the 10%.

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You script write, don't you? Huh? You do script

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writing too, right? Yeah, I do, I do. The stories

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that you've written so far, are they all along

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the same lines as what you just told me in this

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story that's quite compelling, actually? A bit,

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a bit. I've written about... For example, childhood

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friends ended up on the opposite side of independent

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struggle. So technology involved, they used drones.

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They used hacking. They would hack each other.

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So do you find coming up with stories like this

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exciting enough for you? It really challenges

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your right brain. You enjoy imagining stuff.

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yes that part yes but eventually you have to

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get it implemented then it's made into a movie

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and that is even more challenging because especially

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when you talk to the people that are commercializing

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the film and they say nah come on which country

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is that? Myanmar nobody is interested in Myanmar

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but it's a good story I know it's a good story

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but the people are interested in, maybe in US

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fighting China in Xinjiang or stuff like that,

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then it will sell. The tickets will sell. So

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that is quite frustrating. So the commercial

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aspects actually jams the brakes. And before

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that, when you have to pitch to people, never

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mind pitching to the money people, you pitch

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to your peers first. Some of my peers do not

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understand technology. so they will be unnecessarily

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jamming the bricks and that annoys me quite a

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lot. So for instance, very simple, I wrote in

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the paper, I say that, I use the word social

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engineering. Okay. And this person just blast

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me outright and say, Michael, you say social

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engineering. I didn't see any social engineering

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at all. I said, no, social engineering is not

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boats and nuts and... And fuel oil and steam

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engines. Was that what they were thinking? Yeah,

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he was thinking like that. And I explained to

00:15:39.259 --> 00:15:41.440
him that social engineering is manipulating minds,

00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:44.220
right? I don't know why they use the word engineering,

00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:49.200
but okay. And what disappointed me was that he

00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:53.850
didn't apologize because he was quite rude. And

00:15:53.850 --> 00:15:56.490
among peers, there's no need to be rude, right?

00:15:56.529 --> 00:15:58.690
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Egos. I'm not begging your

00:15:58.690 --> 00:16:00.490
money. You're not begging my money. Egos, right?

00:16:00.990 --> 00:16:03.289
These are people that's not constructive. So

00:16:03.289 --> 00:16:07.690
there are a lot of steps to overcome. I believe

00:16:07.690 --> 00:16:11.370
that in Western developed countries, it'd be

00:16:11.370 --> 00:16:14.840
easier to find somebody that... understands it

00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:17.639
better. And I'm saying that from the point of

00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:21.200
view of having worked in 19 countries, four continents,

00:16:21.460 --> 00:16:24.159
a big part of them in Western developed countries.

00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:28.480
So they have a longer tradition of technology

00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:32.100
implementations. And for the case of movies,

00:16:32.179 --> 00:16:34.559
of course, a lot longer tradition. So I think

00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:37.600
I will stand a better chance explaining these

00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:40.659
things to the different sets of people. So the

00:16:40.659 --> 00:16:45.289
thing is not to... Not to upset yourself by saying,

00:16:45.370 --> 00:16:47.690
Michael, I don't think, not to be gaslighted.

00:16:47.789 --> 00:16:50.149
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, Michael, you're not good.

00:16:50.570 --> 00:16:53.889
Are you sure? Nobody seems to accept what you

00:16:53.889 --> 00:16:56.269
say. So, Michael, don't you think then that our

00:16:56.269 --> 00:17:02.730
local viewing public, our audiences, we can use

00:17:02.730 --> 00:17:06.069
in broad, we can use that term audience, the

00:17:06.069 --> 00:17:11.390
audience, are not very open? into wanting to

00:17:11.390 --> 00:17:14.650
understand these things? I think audience are

00:17:14.650 --> 00:17:17.910
okay. Okay. Because eventually when you have

00:17:17.910 --> 00:17:23.349
your film made into the detail, right? You would

00:17:23.349 --> 00:17:26.009
check through your detail, right? So say for

00:17:26.009 --> 00:17:28.109
example, you want an event to happen, you got

00:17:28.109 --> 00:17:30.250
to foretell it first, right? You build it up

00:17:30.250 --> 00:17:33.430
slowly. Sure. You build a bit, a bit, a bit,

00:17:33.450 --> 00:17:36.069
then bam, right? Right. To the climax, yeah.

00:17:36.430 --> 00:17:40.589
So you can... you can write your story that way

00:17:40.589 --> 00:17:44.349
to gradually build up and explain things. Yeah.

00:17:44.609 --> 00:17:49.890
You have time to add in set designs, color, prop,

00:17:50.089 --> 00:17:53.109
lights to accentuate what you want. Yeah, but

00:17:53.109 --> 00:17:55.049
earlier on, you were saying, like, for example,

00:17:55.190 --> 00:17:57.069
that a friend of yours, a peer of yours, a contemporary

00:17:57.069 --> 00:17:59.589
who couldn't understand, didn't want to understand.

00:17:59.910 --> 00:18:02.329
And then the example you used about nobody cares

00:18:02.329 --> 00:18:04.049
about Myanmar, but unless, of course, if you're

00:18:04.049 --> 00:18:06.690
talking about the US, you're having an attack

00:18:06.690 --> 00:18:09.619
on... which is some part of China. I can't remember

00:18:09.619 --> 00:18:12.740
where you said, but sorry about that. But that

00:18:12.740 --> 00:18:14.640
would be more compelling, you know, for a script

00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:16.279
and all that because the money people will be

00:18:16.279 --> 00:18:18.779
looking at all these things. The commercial aspects

00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:22.059
come into play and perhaps also maybe because,

00:18:22.259 --> 00:18:26.839
is it because our people, even when I say audience,

00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:28.779
I don't just mean the viewing audience alone,

00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:32.299
but people who would invest in something like

00:18:32.299 --> 00:18:35.829
this, you know, would also look will also be

00:18:35.829 --> 00:18:39.190
viewers as well. Then, would it be that, could

00:18:39.190 --> 00:18:41.910
it be that they're just too close? They're not

00:18:41.910 --> 00:18:44.390
really open to that perspective compared to a

00:18:44.390 --> 00:18:46.589
Westerner? I think you have to split these two

00:18:46.589 --> 00:18:49.630
groups, general audience and the audience that

00:18:49.630 --> 00:18:54.490
will have to the purse string of that. Yeah,

00:18:54.490 --> 00:18:56.470
but wouldn't these people also be viewing audience

00:18:56.470 --> 00:18:59.470
as well? Yeah, but their eyes are very different.

00:18:59.549 --> 00:19:04.670
They are usually older and some of them even

00:19:04.670 --> 00:19:07.289
feel that you cannot be a star unless you appeared

00:19:07.289 --> 00:19:11.490
on free -to -air TV before. Oh, that is so dinosaur,

00:19:11.829 --> 00:19:16.970
man. But they are the one that has the purse

00:19:16.970 --> 00:19:20.109
strings. And then you think that the film industry,

00:19:20.430 --> 00:19:22.329
I mean, I'm always concerned about the arts.

00:19:22.509 --> 00:19:25.269
I always, people watch the show, it's like a

00:19:25.269 --> 00:19:27.470
broken recording. And I don't want it to be broken

00:19:27.470 --> 00:19:29.930
because I will continue preaching it. I always

00:19:29.930 --> 00:19:32.730
advocate for musicians and performers and entertainers

00:19:32.730 --> 00:19:35.730
and also for writers recently. And I will also

00:19:35.730 --> 00:19:39.369
not exclude actors like guys like you, right?

00:19:39.410 --> 00:19:42.410
People who want to bring that creativity to the

00:19:42.410 --> 00:19:45.569
fore, you know? And it's so sickening when they

00:19:45.569 --> 00:19:47.849
see, and I just had this discussion actually

00:19:47.849 --> 00:19:50.569
just last night with some people casually, socially.

00:19:51.130 --> 00:19:53.509
And you know, it seems as long as you're not

00:19:53.509 --> 00:19:58.210
from mainstream, you're nothing. And that's not

00:19:58.210 --> 00:20:03.769
fair. For example, you. Someone asked me, so

00:20:03.769 --> 00:20:05.230
what are you doing tomorrow, Chris? Oh, I'm meeting

00:20:05.230 --> 00:20:09.529
this guy. He's coming on my show. And he's an

00:20:09.529 --> 00:20:12.029
actor. Oh, who is he? His name is Michael Chua.

00:20:12.910 --> 00:20:15.849
And they go, never heard of him. I said, why?

00:20:16.109 --> 00:20:19.509
He must be an old man. No, that didn't come out.

00:20:19.970 --> 00:20:25.430
They said, they said, where is he from? Channel

00:20:25.430 --> 00:20:30.839
5? Channel 8? I said, must it be? Must actors

00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:37.519
come from just these channels? Can't they be

00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:42.819
someone who's talented and never been or don't

00:20:42.819 --> 00:20:47.599
want to be even on mainstream? That's not fair.

00:20:47.740 --> 00:20:51.779
Because mainstream would spend money to promote

00:20:51.779 --> 00:20:56.519
their own full -time artists. But does it mean

00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:59.160
that there are no other talents? Outside of that,

00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:03.359
we haven't grown. I think as a viewing audience,

00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:06.880
we haven't grown. I think we have. Well, you're

00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:10.779
very kind, you are. The audience have fragmented

00:21:10.779 --> 00:21:13.660
into groups now. You have the younger online

00:21:13.660 --> 00:21:17.980
audience and you have the TV people, which is

00:21:17.980 --> 00:21:21.319
very small now, free to air, and you have the

00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:28.279
movie people. So the... I used to tell a young

00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:32.519
chap, I say that mainstream media. Then he asked

00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:35.299
me, what's mainstream media? I said, TV. He said,

00:21:35.339 --> 00:21:40.000
no, no, no. That is legacy media. What? Then

00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.220
I asked him, what is mainstream media? He said,

00:21:42.259 --> 00:21:46.339
online. So that's a more accurate portrayal of...

00:21:46.339 --> 00:21:51.500
How old is this guy, man? 35. That's not very

00:21:51.500 --> 00:21:55.220
young either. Yeah, yeah. But he's in the industry.

00:21:55.299 --> 00:21:58.680
So he's saying now, hey, people, you listen to

00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:02.680
this, right? This is interesting. So your free

00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:05.440
-to -air channels are, let's repeat this just

00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:09.680
for the sake of the viewer on my show, okay?

00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:13.460
Mainstream, what used to be called mainstream

00:22:13.460 --> 00:22:19.799
is perceived to be legacy today. And what is...

00:22:20.259 --> 00:22:23.339
online as digital in the digital space is considered

00:22:23.339 --> 00:22:26.359
as mainstream. Yes. I believe that actually.

00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:28.599
You know why? Let me give you an illustration.

00:22:28.859 --> 00:22:33.460
Sure. So I have acted for MediaCore. Oh, you

00:22:33.460 --> 00:22:35.539
have? In case you didn't hear. I have, I have.

00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:39.500
And they are, I mean, not as a very small role,

00:22:39.559 --> 00:22:42.180
but recurring a few episodes. So it's visible.

00:22:42.539 --> 00:22:45.599
Right. Visible, right? It's not a wallpaper.

00:22:46.180 --> 00:22:51.079
Right. And Not once have somebody stopped me

00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:52.960
on the street and said, you are that doctor seat

00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:58.640
from Kin. No. Oh, you're in Kin? I was on Tangling.

00:22:59.099 --> 00:23:04.660
Oh, with Mel Permanent. I didn't work with him.

00:23:04.819 --> 00:23:08.660
Okay. So, never had once somebody stopped me

00:23:08.660 --> 00:23:10.539
on the street and said, you are that. However,

00:23:10.740 --> 00:23:14.920
I'm in this YouTube series, you know, Jian Hao

00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:19.059
Tan. Okay, yeah, definitely out of his age range.

00:23:19.220 --> 00:23:21.440
Yeah. Sorry. No, it's okay. No, no, I apologize.

00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:24.299
He has a series called Titan Academy. Yeah, yeah,

00:23:24.299 --> 00:23:28.400
Titans Academy. I saw that. And every episode

00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:31.880
after, say, two months, give and take, has upwards

00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:36.240
of two million views. Wow. So, the TV, I've estimated,

00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:39.480
I'm not privy to any official data, but estimated

00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:43.500
based on checking straw poll with my friends

00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:47.180
and random people. I think they have, 100 to

00:23:47.180 --> 00:23:51.799
150 ,000 viewers per episode. Wowee. And channel

00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:57.099
8, if it's a blockbuster like wow kind of series,

00:23:57.339 --> 00:24:00.960
per episode, 300 ,000. Wow, my goodness. So 300

00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:03.640
,000 take their top. 300 ,000 compared with 2

00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:06.980
million. And guess what? 2 million is not the

00:24:06.980 --> 00:24:10.339
highest. I have some of my episodes have gone

00:24:10.339 --> 00:24:14.099
on and have 9 million. My goodness. 10 million

00:24:14.099 --> 00:24:16.319
and that's not the highest because their highest

00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:20.660
episode is 46 million holy crap so from Chinese

00:24:20.660 --> 00:24:24.599
speaking countries no the Chin Hao Tan videos

00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:28.019
are in standard English they don't use even Singlish

00:24:28.019 --> 00:24:30.220
oh this is an English program yeah English so

00:24:30.220 --> 00:24:32.880
that everybody can understand it sometimes when

00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:39.079
I express in a very localizing Singaporean way

00:24:39.079 --> 00:24:41.519
the director will say can we do that take again

00:24:42.610 --> 00:24:45.650
so they want they want to have everyone across

00:24:45.650 --> 00:24:50.329
yeah and it's just huge it's no comparison at

00:24:50.329 --> 00:24:52.910
all and you would think that the audience is

00:24:52.910 --> 00:24:56.089
growing fastest in Singapore no it's in the US

00:24:56.089 --> 00:25:02.650
they're growing at 16 % I think wow yeah wow

00:25:02.650 --> 00:25:04.549
Chris what have you been doing wrong man damn

00:25:04.549 --> 00:25:08.089
it so No, I think your content should really

00:25:08.089 --> 00:25:11.410
fly. In fact, I told you before, before coming

00:25:11.410 --> 00:25:13.730
here, I feel very stressed. You're very high

00:25:13.730 --> 00:25:16.670
standard. My goodness. High standard. I appreciate

00:25:16.670 --> 00:25:20.529
the compliment though. Don't mind me asking.

00:25:20.630 --> 00:25:21.670
I don't know whether or not you're going to be

00:25:21.670 --> 00:25:23.410
sensitive about this, but how old are you now?

00:25:25.509 --> 00:25:28.950
I am not young, but I tend not to reveal my age

00:25:28.950 --> 00:25:33.170
online. I'm 55. You're older or younger? Okay.

00:25:33.849 --> 00:25:38.029
But when you were 50, When you were 50, you were

00:25:38.029 --> 00:25:41.529
established already in tech. And then talent

00:25:41.529 --> 00:25:45.390
scouted via Facebook photo. Can you just walk

00:25:45.390 --> 00:25:48.150
me through what happened there? Oh, it's a boat

00:25:48.150 --> 00:25:50.269
from the blue. I didn't know. Yeah, yeah. Pretty

00:25:50.269 --> 00:25:53.569
sure. Yeah, no, definitely. No kidding. I just

00:25:53.569 --> 00:25:57.670
got a message. I said, me acting? And you've

00:25:57.670 --> 00:26:00.130
never done that before? Of course, in school,

00:26:00.190 --> 00:26:03.319
you do stage and all. Sure, sure. Not. not professionally,

00:26:03.500 --> 00:26:05.440
go there, big cameras around and all that. Wow.

00:26:05.900 --> 00:26:08.640
Right? Measuring, using tape into the camera

00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:11.579
and it's so complicated, right? I mean, stage,

00:26:11.700 --> 00:26:13.440
at least you're just having fun, right? Yeah.

00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:19.000
So, yeah, it was quite a surprise and she contacted

00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:22.140
me. I was curious. I went for the audition and

00:26:22.140 --> 00:26:24.319
subsequently the rehearsals because they got

00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:26.920
cast and she was very generous with her compliments

00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:30.059
about my ability to act. She said, Michael, honestly,

00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:32.819
I'm a good judge of talent and I, believe you

00:26:32.819 --> 00:26:36.680
should take up acting seriously. And at that

00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:40.619
time, I believe her. I mean, I didn't know any

00:26:40.619 --> 00:26:42.980
better. Honestly, if she had said, Michael, you're

00:26:42.980 --> 00:26:44.480
horrible. Give up and die. You would have accepted

00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:47.779
that too. I wouldn't be angry. Yeah. And when

00:26:47.779 --> 00:26:50.240
the show reel was up, I sent it out and indeed

00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:53.579
I got a lot of gigs. And by the 15th, it hit

00:26:53.579 --> 00:26:59.079
Hentak Kaki. It was the army shot. Yeah, I saw

00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:03.079
that one. And when I was cast for that, I don't

00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:06.000
know why, somehow I said, I must get into this.

00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:09.839
During audition, I must get into this. And I

00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:12.819
got cast. I was, the entire body, like every

00:27:12.819 --> 00:27:15.920
bodily cells was fired. Why? I can't explain.

00:27:16.519 --> 00:27:18.220
Because, you know, it's so funny you said that

00:27:18.220 --> 00:27:20.799
because I have this question here. What was the

00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:24.579
initial why for stepping into acting? Curiosity.

00:27:24.759 --> 00:27:28.910
Ah, that also. That curiosity. And she was, she

00:27:28.910 --> 00:27:31.710
was generous. She, well, you see, it was an,

00:27:31.730 --> 00:27:35.170
I believe, I hope, it's an honest positive. And

00:27:35.170 --> 00:27:38.609
look where the, how much and how far the honest

00:27:38.609 --> 00:27:41.470
positive has taken me. Yeah. Right now, I've

00:27:41.470 --> 00:27:43.849
done over 400 productions. I got several awards.

00:27:43.950 --> 00:27:48.049
I got, by now, quite a lot of short films and

00:27:48.049 --> 00:27:51.750
episodes. They're remarkable, man. So, 100 productions.

00:27:51.990 --> 00:27:54.750
Over 400. Holy crap. Some are small, some are

00:27:54.750 --> 00:27:57.990
big. Over how many years? By now, 15 years. 15

00:27:57.990 --> 00:28:00.950
years, 400 productions. Looking a lot, you know.

00:28:01.069 --> 00:28:04.950
Yeah, yeah. At one time, I was... At one time,

00:28:04.950 --> 00:28:07.250
if you stop me and check my back, right, there'll

00:28:07.250 --> 00:28:09.430
be two or three scripts in different genres,

00:28:09.589 --> 00:28:11.549
different directors, different languages. Different

00:28:11.549 --> 00:28:14.109
shows. Different shows, yeah. So a different

00:28:14.109 --> 00:28:17.630
language is a tough one. So my mind was like...

00:28:17.630 --> 00:28:20.730
So you think that at that moment for Hentak Kaki,

00:28:20.849 --> 00:28:23.950
you wanted to get casted. You wanted it so badly,

00:28:24.049 --> 00:28:26.839
right, after the audition. Yeah. That when you

00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:29.500
got it, you felt that every cell was exploding.

00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:31.640
I was fired, yeah. Because you were fired up,

00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:35.920
right? Couldn't we just say then that stepping

00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:38.819
foot into acting, curiosity is one, but actually

00:28:38.819 --> 00:28:43.200
there was maybe this deep -seated root of passion

00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:45.960
for it. Yeah, there is, there is, there is. It's

00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:47.519
just that you don't know. It's not conscious.

00:28:47.819 --> 00:28:51.000
Yeah. So it was really accidental, wasn't it?

00:28:51.299 --> 00:28:53.680
For you discovering, first of all, talent and

00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:58.660
what I love to do. So between cybersecurity and

00:28:58.660 --> 00:29:03.480
acting. Okay, cybersecurity. You know my question.

00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:07.140
Cybersecurity, you have to jump over more hoops

00:29:07.140 --> 00:29:10.519
to get that satisfaction. So for instance, cybersecurity,

00:29:10.619 --> 00:29:15.839
if you are a chief security officer, 51 % of

00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:21.150
your work is office politics. That means getting

00:29:21.150 --> 00:29:26.890
budgets. Sure. So, 51%. So, you have the 49 %

00:29:26.890 --> 00:29:29.589
that if you are lucky, it might be something

00:29:29.589 --> 00:29:34.529
interesting. And even that 49%, I think maybe

00:29:34.529 --> 00:29:40.609
19 % will be operational stuff. Right. Your staff

00:29:40.609 --> 00:29:45.009
just resign, you're going to get another... Typical

00:29:45.009 --> 00:29:48.230
corporate bureaucracy and some operational stuff.

00:29:48.329 --> 00:29:49.960
So, I think there are a few hoops to... jump

00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:52.480
over before you get that satisfaction that satisfaction

00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:57.900
is unique you have to it comes in a package the

00:29:57.900 --> 00:30:00.960
boring stuff and then the exciting stuff whereas

00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:06.839
film production again is different there is in

00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:09.440
front of the camera and behind the camera right

00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:12.420
so behind the camera as I've learned it's a lot

00:30:12.420 --> 00:30:16.000
tougher I would think so it's a lot tougher a

00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:18.589
lot of actors Walk me through it. Walk me through

00:30:18.589 --> 00:30:23.289
it. Okay. Just take the example of a director

00:30:23.289 --> 00:30:26.210
and an actor. Sure. And I've done roles where

00:30:26.210 --> 00:30:28.890
I direct an actor. Right. And that's very difficult

00:30:28.890 --> 00:30:30.930
because when you're in front of a camera, it's

00:30:30.930 --> 00:30:33.769
fantasy. Right. Fantasy. In fact, more fantasy

00:30:33.769 --> 00:30:35.710
better. You're totally in it. Which is more fun.

00:30:35.809 --> 00:30:39.809
Yeah. And then cut and then you go and have a

00:30:39.809 --> 00:30:41.769
rest. And usually on a set, you are treated the

00:30:41.769 --> 00:30:44.210
best because you have to be in good shape, right?

00:30:44.329 --> 00:30:49.569
Sure. When I was directing as well, then I was

00:30:49.569 --> 00:30:52.390
in front of the camera was fantasy and the moment

00:30:52.390 --> 00:30:57.190
cutness, logistics and stuff, real world, definitely

00:30:57.190 --> 00:31:00.369
real world. So the flip -flopping in and out,

00:31:00.450 --> 00:31:04.089
fantasy, real world, it's very tiring. Wow. And

00:31:04.089 --> 00:31:05.970
I think a director has to do a lot of that even

00:31:05.970 --> 00:31:08.109
if he's not acting in front of the camera because

00:31:08.109 --> 00:31:11.910
in his mind's eye, he saw the whole thing played

00:31:11.910 --> 00:31:14.829
before him. And you just have to get this actor.

00:31:14.950 --> 00:31:19.349
Please do what I want you to do. Right? So the

00:31:19.349 --> 00:31:23.329
admiration for people behind the lenses responsible

00:31:23.329 --> 00:31:28.009
for the production. When you look at guys like,

00:31:28.109 --> 00:31:32.390
I'm going to say Mel Gibson, he's been directing.

00:31:32.990 --> 00:31:37.650
Clint Eastwood, all actors, been directing. In

00:31:37.650 --> 00:31:41.210
recent times, even Ben Stiller started directing

00:31:41.210 --> 00:31:45.059
as well. What's your opinion of these guys, of

00:31:45.059 --> 00:31:47.619
these people, you know, as actors to directors,

00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:51.299
the stuff they've produced so far? Oh, some of

00:31:51.299 --> 00:31:53.480
the stuff they produce are very, very better

00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:57.180
than when they were. Clean instrument, but tons

00:31:57.180 --> 00:31:58.980
were different. Yeah, yeah. He was playing the

00:31:58.980 --> 00:32:01.220
macho man. That was a spaghetti western. He'd

00:32:01.220 --> 00:32:03.420
take a gun and shoot 10 people and he's not short

00:32:03.420 --> 00:32:05.920
at all, right? And make my day, that kind of

00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:08.299
stuff. So very macho stuff. But by the time he

00:32:08.299 --> 00:32:11.880
retired and became a director, I think his stuff

00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:14.759
is a lot deeper. Deeper. A lot deeper. Yeah.

00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:19.400
I guess these people are talented and intelligent

00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:21.539
to start off with. That's why they can pull off

00:32:21.539 --> 00:32:24.140
such a thing being a director. But the fact that

00:32:24.140 --> 00:32:28.039
you are, say, suppose just an actor moving into

00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:30.099
directing, that doesn't necessarily mean that

00:32:30.099 --> 00:32:32.720
you can be a good director. It depends on your

00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:36.519
skill sets and your mindset and ability to visualize

00:32:36.519 --> 00:32:39.619
and interpret scripts and so on. You were on

00:32:39.619 --> 00:32:44.440
the award -winning Elo Elo. Yeah. There was some

00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:47.400
controversy about that discovery. You know, you

00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:50.220
know. Why? Wasn't there? Why? Was that the show?

00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:53.519
Am I wrong about my facts? No, that is Wet Seasons.

00:32:53.700 --> 00:32:59.099
Oh, okay. Elo Elo is a wholesome family. Shoot

00:32:59.099 --> 00:33:04.059
me, Michael. Shoot me. I was wondering. How was

00:33:04.059 --> 00:33:10.140
that, man? Did you enjoy that one? Okay, I do

00:33:10.140 --> 00:33:12.859
enjoy that, but in a very perverse way because

00:33:12.859 --> 00:33:16.759
recently it's directed by Anthony Chen. Okay.

00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:20.579
And recently I chose to act for him again, even

00:33:20.579 --> 00:33:22.500
if it's a small role. In fact, I told him I met

00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:26.880
him in a networking evening. I said, hey, Anthony,

00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:28.559
how are you? He said, what's the stress? It's

00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:31.019
always like that. I said, why? Because my feature

00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:33.380
film is happening. Any role for me, small one

00:33:33.380 --> 00:33:36.799
also can. You speak Hokkien. Yes, on. Then he's

00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:38.819
very good. He's so detailed. You take out his

00:33:38.819 --> 00:33:40.599
phone. Sorry, I have to put it in my phone because

00:33:40.599 --> 00:33:42.900
I don't want to forget this. And I got cast.

00:33:43.460 --> 00:33:49.359
Wow. And my scene, he's very detailed. Movements

00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:51.519
and dialogue, synchronization with the other

00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:56.279
actor. He is so spot on. So my take was, sorry,

00:33:56.799 --> 00:34:00.200
my scene, my shot, that shot, that scene has

00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:04.710
two shots. The first shot, was a lot of people

00:34:04.710 --> 00:34:08.210
moving, you know, in a coffee shop. That's understandable.

00:34:08.329 --> 00:34:10.170
You need to have more shots. It's coordination.

00:34:11.010 --> 00:34:15.329
Second shot is only me and that other guy. And

00:34:15.329 --> 00:34:18.630
there was quite a lot. He was synchronizing positively.

00:34:19.050 --> 00:34:22.230
He was synchronizing how I give that person and

00:34:22.230 --> 00:34:25.690
where I look and how I say. Wow. I think that

00:34:25.690 --> 00:34:30.539
was about maybe 25. 20 takes to that detail he's

00:34:30.539 --> 00:34:32.719
very detailed how does one go to sleep man every

00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:34.579
night with all that in his head he's tired now

00:34:34.579 --> 00:34:36.980
but I chose to work with him because precisely

00:34:36.980 --> 00:34:40.380
I want somebody like this to pick on me positively

00:34:40.380 --> 00:34:43.539
so that I can grow did you go through any acting

00:34:43.539 --> 00:34:47.559
training no but the way you talk yeah I'm very

00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:51.380
well I'm also very detailed so you got were you

00:34:51.380 --> 00:34:54.280
ever this detailed before prior to going to the

00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:57.320
as I said As a cyber security person, you have

00:34:57.320 --> 00:34:59.500
to be detailed. So it's suitable. That's the

00:34:59.500 --> 00:35:01.460
correlation. Maybe I didn't think of it that

00:35:01.460 --> 00:35:03.500
way. Maybe I'm also... Maybe that's the correlation.

00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:06.539
Maybe not as detailed as Anthony Chen. That guy

00:35:06.539 --> 00:35:09.199
is... I don't know how his brain be bursting,

00:35:09.300 --> 00:35:11.659
I think. But he's probably been doing this far

00:35:11.659 --> 00:35:14.949
longer than you have. Hasn't he? Yes, and he...

00:35:14.949 --> 00:35:17.190
Has always been in the producing, directing arena.

00:35:18.369 --> 00:35:22.050
He's very detailed. Maybe that's why. Yeah, I'm

00:35:22.050 --> 00:35:23.889
trying to just discover the psychology behind

00:35:23.889 --> 00:35:25.750
people because this is the I Love My Job series

00:35:25.750 --> 00:35:28.329
on my show. Yeah. And I've spoken to so many

00:35:28.329 --> 00:35:30.710
people from so many trades and professions, right?

00:35:31.070 --> 00:35:34.369
Especially the tradies. And why do people make

00:35:34.369 --> 00:35:36.510
change in their lives and their careers? You

00:35:36.510 --> 00:35:39.210
know, especially in your 50s. In your 50s, you

00:35:39.210 --> 00:35:41.469
make a mid -career switch. Not that you have,

00:35:41.730 --> 00:35:46.050
but you... actually extended another arm of,

00:35:46.050 --> 00:35:49.090
you know, of having a career as well. Like me,

00:35:49.190 --> 00:35:51.909
you know, I mean, yeah, I do so many damn things,

00:35:52.030 --> 00:35:56.070
but anyway, let's not talk about me. So, for

00:35:56.070 --> 00:36:02.570
you, not even having to go for a formal acting

00:36:02.570 --> 00:36:06.329
training, unlike me, I was put through that for

00:36:06.329 --> 00:36:09.789
two months. Well, we were sponsored, so it was

00:36:09.789 --> 00:36:11.489
great. You know, I mean, why should I go learn

00:36:11.489 --> 00:36:14.409
something new? But you didn't. And yet, here

00:36:14.409 --> 00:36:18.429
you are. Acted on Elo Elo. That movie won an

00:36:18.429 --> 00:36:22.030
award. Then now the same director has put you

00:36:22.030 --> 00:36:24.889
on for his new project, right? It's like Michael

00:36:24.889 --> 00:36:29.230
Chua is this known person in that sphere of the

00:36:29.230 --> 00:36:33.289
world. You know, this... He knows he's got the

00:36:33.289 --> 00:36:36.269
acting chops. He understands behind the lenses

00:36:36.269 --> 00:36:39.269
and in front of the lens. He knows what to do.

00:36:39.510 --> 00:36:42.769
So you don't even have to go through anything

00:36:42.769 --> 00:36:46.190
formal. What's it say about you? Was there ever

00:36:46.190 --> 00:36:50.250
a steep, a real steep learning curve? I mean,

00:36:50.309 --> 00:36:54.170
well, I told you I was one of the years I have

00:36:54.170 --> 00:36:57.929
60 over gigs a year, which is more than one a

00:36:57.929 --> 00:37:01.409
week. Just the intensity would be a steep learning

00:37:01.409 --> 00:37:04.710
curve because every of the production is different

00:37:04.710 --> 00:37:07.630
genre, different director, different story. Isn't

00:37:07.630 --> 00:37:10.050
that stressful, man? Yeah, it was stressful.

00:37:10.269 --> 00:37:14.250
But you enjoyed it? Yeah. I enjoyed it immensely.

00:37:14.250 --> 00:37:17.929
So it can't be stressful. While there's a physical

00:37:17.929 --> 00:37:22.789
strain, there is a physical time as well. Like

00:37:22.789 --> 00:37:26.460
if you act for 17 hours straight on, right? I

00:37:26.460 --> 00:37:30.360
was in an ad for Oral -B. It's told as a short

00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:34.980
story. So I was made to smile like so many times.

00:37:35.019 --> 00:37:38.420
I think 800 over times, maybe 17 of us. Because

00:37:38.420 --> 00:37:40.179
they have to play it safe, right? Okay, smile,

00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:44.619
no teeth. Smile, 20 % teeth. Smile, 50 % teeth.

00:37:44.739 --> 00:37:47.920
So you keep doing, because it's an ad. Yeah,

00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:51.019
yeah, yeah. It has to look good. I hope they

00:37:51.019 --> 00:37:54.150
pay well for things like this. okay they paid

00:37:54.150 --> 00:37:56.969
well but they didn't tell me it will be 17 hours

00:37:56.969 --> 00:37:59.250
and I was stupid enough not to negotiate with

00:37:59.250 --> 00:38:02.809
them before I go 17 hours of doing that I think

00:38:02.809 --> 00:38:06.050
they didn't even know it will be 17 because maybe

00:38:06.050 --> 00:38:09.989
they think it will be 12 right so it just went

00:38:09.989 --> 00:38:14.250
on it reminds me it reminds me of the ad I had

00:38:14.250 --> 00:38:17.889
to do not acting I do a lot of voiceovers and

00:38:17.889 --> 00:38:19.750
for this particular commercial it was global

00:38:20.250 --> 00:38:23.369
I won't mention which commercial on this show,

00:38:23.530 --> 00:38:29.170
but it is a very big fashion brand. And it was

00:38:29.170 --> 00:38:34.130
only six. Hang on. One, two, three. Two lines,

00:38:34.329 --> 00:38:39.949
probably six words with one, three or four syllable

00:38:39.949 --> 00:38:46.630
word. Mind you, the shortest lines are the toughest

00:38:46.630 --> 00:38:52.159
because The entire nuance has got to be encapsulated

00:38:52.159 --> 00:38:56.679
in a short space, right? Four syllables. Chris,

00:38:57.000 --> 00:38:59.880
can you do the third syllable with a different

00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:05.159
note? Excuse me? Okay. Chris, change my mind.

00:39:05.179 --> 00:39:07.219
Can you do that on the second syllable instead?

00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:12.219
Okay. Two and a half hours. Wow. And I tell you,

00:39:12.219 --> 00:39:17.309
I was like, shit, I should charge more. And I

00:39:17.309 --> 00:39:20.110
learned a very big lesson that the shorter the

00:39:20.110 --> 00:39:24.670
lines, the tougher it is. That's a good tip.

00:39:24.869 --> 00:39:29.409
Yeah. And if you get, especially if you have

00:39:29.409 --> 00:39:34.449
a producer that's not local. That's a good tip.

00:39:34.570 --> 00:39:36.550
Because next time they tell me, no, easy, only

00:39:36.550 --> 00:39:39.860
four lines, four words. Two syllables, whatever.

00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:45.659
I was in there. Bear that in mind, man. Bear

00:39:45.659 --> 00:39:49.400
that in mind. Having appeared in over 400 productions,

00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:52.619
mate. Spanning Film TV, YouTube, Cartoon Academy,

00:39:52.900 --> 00:39:55.739
as you mentioned. Commercials, as you've just

00:39:55.739 --> 00:40:00.300
mentioned. Orubi and Stage. Stage as well. Yeah.

00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:05.610
I want to now... Do you a favor? I don't think

00:40:05.610 --> 00:40:10.409
this is very updated, but I did edit, I must

00:40:10.409 --> 00:40:13.289
tell you, you're the guy who produced that. I

00:40:13.289 --> 00:40:17.909
did edit a small part of your showreel. So we're

00:40:17.909 --> 00:40:19.670
going to play it right now for the benefit of

00:40:19.670 --> 00:40:23.409
our viewer and listener. Here is my kitchen.

00:40:31.530 --> 00:40:36.309
I'm looking for my auntie. No, last time my grandfather

00:40:36.309 --> 00:40:41.570
gave away the baby to a Malay family, I looked

00:40:41.570 --> 00:41:39.340
for her. I'm not a dog. Okay, you're not a dog.

00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:41.500
You boji lah. When are you going to call me Boji?

00:41:41.699 --> 00:41:44.139
Are you a US ranger or an airborne ranger? You

00:41:44.139 --> 00:41:46.480
got or not? You damn Boji, okay? I'm the one

00:41:46.480 --> 00:41:47.800
who dares to go out and do what I want, okay?

00:41:48.059 --> 00:41:50.300
Look at me. I got family, house, car. What do

00:41:50.300 --> 00:41:52.539
you have? Army only. Raj, army is my life, you

00:41:52.539 --> 00:42:06.639
understand? Is everything okay, sir? Sir? Call

00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:27.460
me when you need more money. Are you coming back

00:42:27.460 --> 00:42:30.219
for reunion dinner this year? No, I'm not coming

00:42:30.219 --> 00:42:34.139
home this year. Yeah, new job here. Maybe after

00:42:34.139 --> 00:42:37.559
New Year, we'll see. Yeah, I'm really busy now.

00:42:37.820 --> 00:42:48.150
Okay, bye. There are no side effects. I feel

00:42:48.150 --> 00:42:51.530
steam all over my body. What's happening? I don't

00:42:51.530 --> 00:42:53.929
know how to tell you this. There's no movement

00:42:53.929 --> 00:42:58.550
in your lungs. Clinically, you're dead. I'm not

00:42:58.550 --> 00:43:03.710
dead. I really don't know yet. But I suggest

00:43:03.710 --> 00:43:06.809
you do your bucket list right. I won't let you

00:43:06.809 --> 00:43:09.170
get away with this. You think I murdered my husband?

00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:17.360
Well, you were even a zombie, man. I thought

00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:19.699
I was bad, really, but you were a zombie, dude.

00:43:21.139 --> 00:43:24.880
I got to tell you, when I found this, I had to

00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:27.760
show it. I had to show it on this episode. I

00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:29.440
told myself to do it, and that's the reason why

00:43:29.440 --> 00:43:32.760
it was aired, right? The reason is because, I

00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:35.380
mean, God, the myriad different roles that you

00:43:35.380 --> 00:43:39.699
played, and everyone to a T. I'm not trying to

00:43:39.699 --> 00:43:41.239
blow sunshine up your ass, because I'm not that

00:43:41.239 --> 00:43:46.159
kind of guy, but really. from the taxi driver.

00:43:46.980 --> 00:43:49.440
And you know that scene when you gave the money

00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:53.199
to the guy who played the character, Roshi's

00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:55.739
son? And then after that, you call him up and

00:43:55.739 --> 00:43:59.920
all that. You know, the thing about good acting

00:43:59.920 --> 00:44:04.219
is when whoever watches it actually gets it and

00:44:04.219 --> 00:44:07.659
feels it. And it's an extension to your emotions.

00:44:08.099 --> 00:44:12.579
There's a relatability. And I felt it, man. And

00:44:12.579 --> 00:44:14.820
when you say the army is my life, You know, that

00:44:14.820 --> 00:44:18.940
was a, wow, damn good, man. I mean, I love that.

00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:21.940
That was really damn show. It's very nice to

00:44:21.940 --> 00:44:24.219
watch, frankly. It's amazing. It's really, and

00:44:24.219 --> 00:44:26.920
for a guy who hasn't been formally trained, and

00:44:26.920 --> 00:44:30.159
I, the one thing that I didn't show is the stuff

00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:33.179
you've been doing on Titan Academy on YouTube.

00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:37.039
Now, we've seen the, one was a media co -op,

00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:39.719
which is mainstream, then the rest are also in

00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:44.670
the movies, like, you know, you know. How, Does

00:44:44.670 --> 00:44:47.829
the acting process or the satisfaction you derive

00:44:47.829 --> 00:44:50.969
differ between these platforms? Preparing for,

00:44:51.010 --> 00:44:54.349
for example, a viral YouTube hit different from

00:44:54.349 --> 00:44:58.730
a Cannes feature film. Right. Let me take you

00:44:58.730 --> 00:45:01.489
through and the audience who are not in this

00:45:01.489 --> 00:45:06.530
industry. Yeah. Acting is living sincerely under

00:45:06.530 --> 00:45:13.420
imaginary circumstances. Okay. And you do that

00:45:13.420 --> 00:45:16.420
by getting into character. Okay. And that means

00:45:16.420 --> 00:45:20.460
you have to research on the character. You study

00:45:20.460 --> 00:45:22.980
how and you try how he speaks, how he moves,

00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:25.820
his body language and so on. So you do that until

00:45:25.820 --> 00:45:31.260
it becomes second nature. But yet on set, not

00:45:31.260 --> 00:45:33.599
everything is subconscious because you still

00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:36.320
have to be conscious. For example, you have to

00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:38.780
remember some technical requirements of moving

00:45:38.780 --> 00:45:42.610
to the center of the stage, for example. X number

00:45:42.610 --> 00:45:45.889
of meters away from the camera or favoring the

00:45:45.889 --> 00:45:47.710
camera like this, which is not a natural way

00:45:47.710 --> 00:45:51.389
of standing. So there is the conscious and subconscious

00:45:51.389 --> 00:45:55.110
part. Sometimes you even have to hop over wires,

00:45:55.389 --> 00:45:57.969
right? Michael, be careful after that. Don't

00:45:57.969 --> 00:46:02.190
trip. Yeah. So you're hopping in and out. despite

00:46:02.190 --> 00:46:05.710
doing that, if you can have it seamlessly done,

00:46:05.869 --> 00:46:08.550
you will make the emotional connection with your

00:46:08.550 --> 00:46:12.610
audience. And if you're That's key. It's just

00:46:12.610 --> 00:46:16.010
the only thing. Because if they have that emotional

00:46:16.010 --> 00:46:20.489
connection, imagination runs wild in their head.

00:46:20.710 --> 00:46:25.170
So they are suspending sense of disbelief. They've

00:46:25.170 --> 00:46:28.989
forgotten that this guy is acting. His son is

00:46:28.989 --> 00:46:34.769
really bad. So stuff like that. Then the magic

00:46:34.769 --> 00:46:41.420
happens. You know, two things here. One, For

00:46:41.420 --> 00:46:43.900
a guy who was not formally acting trained, what

00:46:43.900 --> 00:46:47.340
you just said, that was acting according to my

00:46:47.340 --> 00:46:50.860
couture, right? Well, it's universal. You think

00:46:50.860 --> 00:46:52.659
it's universal, but you can write a book, man.

00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:54.719
I mean, just write a damn book about that. And

00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:58.340
the second thing, I was watching you. It was

00:46:58.340 --> 00:47:00.980
so natural to you that as you were explaining

00:47:00.980 --> 00:47:03.760
it, you were looking directly at your camera.

00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:06.699
And I was looking at the preview screen. I was

00:47:06.699 --> 00:47:10.679
going, ah. So this is, you're so used to that,

00:47:10.719 --> 00:47:12.639
right? Don't you? The moment that you know that

00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:15.420
that's your cam and then you're presenting, you're

00:47:15.420 --> 00:47:17.940
looking straight in your camera. Okay. Acting

00:47:17.940 --> 00:47:22.460
like photography is a relationship of camera

00:47:22.460 --> 00:47:25.900
acting. It's a relationship if the camera. Right.

00:47:26.260 --> 00:47:31.539
So even if you acted very well, but relative

00:47:31.539 --> 00:47:34.900
to the camera, it's not, doesn't look good. It

00:47:34.900 --> 00:47:39.500
doesn't pass. Right. the fact is that you are

00:47:39.500 --> 00:47:42.239
squeezing a multi -dimensional world into a two

00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:45.599
-dimensional camera. So there's some squeeze

00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:49.760
there. So there has to be compensation to make

00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:52.360
it look good, correct and good in the camera.

00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:54.500
The role of acting according to Michael Charman.

00:47:54.559 --> 00:47:59.300
You really got to write a manual on this. Let's

00:47:59.300 --> 00:48:03.460
talk about money. As aspiring actors, I mean,

00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:05.559
everywhere in the world, man, not just here,

00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:08.800
man. I mean, if you read stories about people

00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:12.639
like, what's his name now? I think it was Robin

00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:17.059
Williams who was roommates with, roommate with

00:48:17.059 --> 00:48:19.480
the late Christopher Reeve as well, Superman.

00:48:19.900 --> 00:48:23.389
These guys were like, you know. Actors in the

00:48:23.389 --> 00:48:26.190
US always end up being waiters and serving staff

00:48:26.190 --> 00:48:28.369
while they're doing the acting school and stuff.

00:48:28.710 --> 00:48:32.090
Everyone struggles on their way up towards stardom.

00:48:32.909 --> 00:48:36.309
And these are financial realities, isn't it?

00:48:36.389 --> 00:48:39.489
So based on your experience entering the industry

00:48:39.489 --> 00:48:43.130
later than most of your contemporaries probably

00:48:43.130 --> 00:48:47.150
in the acting world, what practical advice can

00:48:47.150 --> 00:48:51.010
you offer on making acting a viable profession?

00:48:52.269 --> 00:48:53.989
You have to tell me, first of all, viable or

00:48:53.989 --> 00:48:57.369
not. Especially outside the mainstream channels.

00:48:59.550 --> 00:49:03.389
How do you navigate the income, the aspects of

00:49:03.389 --> 00:49:05.949
income? I think if I answered this question 20

00:49:05.949 --> 00:49:08.789
years ago, it would be an easier answer because

00:49:08.789 --> 00:49:17.530
now technology is coming in. Already here. Yeah,

00:49:17.550 --> 00:49:20.070
the industry is being segmented. So you have

00:49:20.070 --> 00:49:23.150
the high -end. acted by human beings high class

00:49:23.150 --> 00:49:27.130
movies then you have streaming you have free

00:49:27.130 --> 00:49:31.250
to air then you have online and in the commercials

00:49:31.250 --> 00:49:34.809
in the very low end where there's no brand sensitivities

00:49:34.809 --> 00:49:38.150
and so on they can they can use AR to generate

00:49:38.150 --> 00:49:41.469
so some of the work will be, of course, some

00:49:41.469 --> 00:49:43.369
work are created. Say, for example, previously,

00:49:43.429 --> 00:49:45.889
if you are selling zuca or something like that,

00:49:45.989 --> 00:49:48.230
you didn't need to have an advertisement, right?

00:49:48.329 --> 00:49:50.989
But now, since you can just ask your son to animate

00:49:50.989 --> 00:49:55.409
it, you do it. So, it creates a new segment,

00:49:55.530 --> 00:49:58.510
but it also takes away some of the businesses

00:49:58.510 --> 00:50:03.250
from work. Yeah, take away work, yeah. So, it

00:50:03.250 --> 00:50:07.480
is different. There are also technologies coming

00:50:07.480 --> 00:50:10.519
in that will make the work different, digital

00:50:10.519 --> 00:50:14.739
technology, LED backdrops and so on. So it's

00:50:14.739 --> 00:50:18.119
quite hard to say how the industry will grow

00:50:18.119 --> 00:50:23.159
or shrink. Advice won't be different from the

00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:26.000
usual, be very careful, be very passionate. And

00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:29.380
if you think that working hard is enough, that

00:50:29.380 --> 00:50:33.159
means you're wrong already. It takes more than

00:50:33.159 --> 00:50:39.079
working hard. to be very good at presenting yourself

00:50:39.079 --> 00:50:41.780
in the market as well. Platinum Academy that

00:50:41.780 --> 00:50:44.000
you've gotten to YouTube, as you mentioned earlier,

00:50:44.119 --> 00:50:47.800
length, was there any specific reason why you

00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:50.860
decided to do something on YouTube, on the digital

00:50:50.860 --> 00:50:54.659
level? Yeah, good question. Actually, I was very

00:50:54.659 --> 00:50:58.639
careful at that time. What happened was that

00:50:58.639 --> 00:51:01.199
I acted in a short film that was directed by

00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:06.139
one of the... YouTubers in the same place, same

00:51:06.139 --> 00:51:10.619
studio. And after that, they liked my work and

00:51:10.619 --> 00:51:14.179
when they started this series, they called me

00:51:14.179 --> 00:51:17.900
up and I was thinking, hey, you know, is it risky

00:51:17.900 --> 00:51:21.079
because I'm a so -called mainstream actor and

00:51:21.079 --> 00:51:25.019
I'm going into YouTuber space and I look at some

00:51:25.019 --> 00:51:27.820
of the YouTube videos, they are all books and

00:51:27.820 --> 00:51:32.000
asses, right? So, it's not my favorite things

00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:38.360
yeah okay yeah it's not clever it's not you know

00:51:38.360 --> 00:51:42.900
it doesn't may not fit then I look at their work

00:51:42.900 --> 00:51:45.980
I mean Jin Hao's work I said yeah it's family

00:51:45.980 --> 00:51:51.380
friendly so I gave it a try right and of course

00:51:51.380 --> 00:51:55.099
it's different how different is this okay in

00:51:55.099 --> 00:52:00.059
terms of the acting Okay, the genre affects the

00:52:00.059 --> 00:52:04.179
acting because the genre is more manga style.

00:52:04.380 --> 00:52:08.699
Yeah, I realize, yeah. It's funny and ridiculous,

00:52:08.920 --> 00:52:12.239
funny and you know, stuff. So it's manga style.

00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:16.760
So I am the chief antagonist. Right. I am a nasty

00:52:16.760 --> 00:52:19.599
person. I am a corporate raider. I bought over

00:52:19.599 --> 00:52:22.219
the school and changed all the rules to make

00:52:22.219 --> 00:52:26.289
life hard for most of them. just for profits.

00:52:26.530 --> 00:52:29.210
So it is a very nasty person. So in a different

00:52:29.210 --> 00:52:33.230
genre, say in Wall Street, Wolf of Wall Street,

00:52:33.369 --> 00:52:37.369
kind of genre, it'd be really socially realistic

00:52:37.369 --> 00:52:41.510
kind of genre. But this is a manga genre. So

00:52:41.510 --> 00:52:46.010
the character that I play, Mr. Allen, has to

00:52:46.010 --> 00:52:49.610
be nasty by always saying something smiling and

00:52:49.610 --> 00:52:53.130
sarcastic. So you go to some frightened student

00:52:53.130 --> 00:52:58.860
and say, happy, that kind of stuff. So, I have

00:52:58.860 --> 00:53:04.440
to change the style to fit into that genre. Say,

00:53:04.579 --> 00:53:07.920
there are some scenes where we punish the students

00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:11.340
by shaving off their hair. So, I'll be exaggerating

00:53:11.340 --> 00:53:15.619
and I'll be blowing into the shave. So, exaggerated,

00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:18.880
very exaggerated, big movements and big expressions

00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:21.599
and laughing out loud. So, how different is that

00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:25.309
compared to, say, acting from mainstream? Same

00:53:25.309 --> 00:53:28.510
number of cameras, same type of cameras, broadcast

00:53:28.510 --> 00:53:31.190
cameras or simple cameras. Mainstream is too

00:53:31.190 --> 00:53:34.389
broad now. So if you go into TV stations, TV

00:53:34.389 --> 00:53:37.010
stations are factories. They have to produce

00:53:37.010 --> 00:53:39.690
a lot of dramas in a short time. So it'd be a

00:53:39.690 --> 00:53:41.429
lot of cameras. Okay, we can patch this with

00:53:41.429 --> 00:53:44.329
that, that, that. So there isn't a lot of satisfaction

00:53:44.329 --> 00:53:48.590
if it's too factory -like. So, Titan is less

00:53:48.590 --> 00:53:51.809
because it's a smaller space. Less equipment

00:53:51.809 --> 00:53:54.429
and stuff. No, they have substantial equipment.

00:53:54.429 --> 00:53:56.110
So, they still use substantial equipment for

00:53:56.110 --> 00:54:00.329
YouTube. Yeah. Titan is a YouTube premium, I

00:54:00.329 --> 00:54:02.750
think. Yeah, okay. They have two cameras now.

00:54:03.469 --> 00:54:06.170
It's properly run. They have two cameras. They

00:54:06.170 --> 00:54:10.070
have a script supervisor. They have a cinematographer.

00:54:10.429 --> 00:54:12.949
They have a director. Wow. They have a line producer.

00:54:13.389 --> 00:54:17.179
They have art and costume. No makeup, I don't

00:54:17.179 --> 00:54:20.820
know why. So it's almost like a usual film. It

00:54:20.820 --> 00:54:23.760
is, it is. Except they know that they are catering

00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:28.039
for a group which is very young. So it has to

00:54:28.039 --> 00:54:31.719
be ridiculously funny. Yeah. It has to be family

00:54:31.719 --> 00:54:33.559
friendly so that the parents won't stop them

00:54:33.559 --> 00:54:41.079
from watching. Yeah, so that adjustment isn't

00:54:41.079 --> 00:54:43.059
very different from Mediacorp, except it's better

00:54:43.059 --> 00:54:45.849
because... Can I say that? They're more friendly.

00:54:45.989 --> 00:54:48.650
Sure. Yeah, I know what you mean. They're more

00:54:48.650 --> 00:54:51.909
friendly. All the meals are bento boxes. Wow.

00:54:52.389 --> 00:54:55.750
Not polystyrene boxes. Okay. Bento boxes and

00:54:55.750 --> 00:54:58.489
good stuff. Used to be bento boxes, by the way.

00:54:58.570 --> 00:55:04.170
Is it? Oh, yeah. Oh, dear. And then if you compare,

00:55:04.230 --> 00:55:06.909
of course, if you compare to Anthony Chin kind

00:55:06.909 --> 00:55:09.869
of standard, then it's different. Anthony Chin,

00:55:09.929 --> 00:55:14.079
everything is art. Okay. Everything is art. Everything

00:55:14.079 --> 00:55:19.260
is perfection. Whereas for YouTubers, if it flows,

00:55:19.380 --> 00:55:23.480
it works. Youngish. Yeah, silly shit doesn't

00:55:23.480 --> 00:55:25.900
matter. That's why I like doing podcasts. Silly

00:55:25.900 --> 00:55:29.719
shit doesn't matter. Is there any, has there

00:55:29.719 --> 00:55:33.280
been any specific role or performance that you're

00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:39.260
particularly proud of and fond of? Yes, yes.

00:55:40.250 --> 00:55:42.190
Okay, usually it's the more recent ones because

00:55:42.190 --> 00:55:46.329
as you act, you improve as you go along. Or as

00:55:46.329 --> 00:55:48.210
you produce, you improve as you go along. That's

00:55:48.210 --> 00:55:52.829
it with experience. So there is a recent film,

00:55:52.949 --> 00:55:57.570
short film called Rhapsody of Time. Okay. Which

00:55:57.570 --> 00:56:03.969
is about a coolie who got into a gambling dispute,

00:56:04.190 --> 00:56:07.050
fought, get into a coma and woke up after 60

00:56:07.050 --> 00:56:11.380
years in Singapore. Wow. Yeah. So that one, I

00:56:11.380 --> 00:56:14.059
did it entirely in Teochew, which is my dialect.

00:56:14.320 --> 00:56:17.500
Okay. So I did it in Teochew because I was thinking

00:56:17.500 --> 00:56:21.360
if my father is still alive today, what would

00:56:21.360 --> 00:56:24.280
he think of Singapore and how he would react

00:56:24.280 --> 00:56:27.480
to Singapore? So there are a few things, of course,

00:56:27.500 --> 00:56:29.340
technology, blah, blah, blah, has changed after

00:56:29.340 --> 00:56:34.119
60 years. And the nurse that is bringing him

00:56:34.119 --> 00:56:39.150
around. doesn't speak Teochew although she's

00:56:39.150 --> 00:56:42.570
Teochew only smattering of Teochew words and

00:56:42.570 --> 00:56:46.349
then he says bring me bring me to town I want

00:56:46.349 --> 00:56:48.449
to see because I see mobile phones it's just

00:56:48.449 --> 00:56:51.429
phone I can't believe that brought to town and

00:56:51.429 --> 00:56:55.829
the first thing he saw was what's this huge tree

00:56:55.829 --> 00:56:59.829
building and a boat on top it says that this

00:56:59.829 --> 00:57:04.630
is a casino casino so big Wouldn't the police

00:57:04.630 --> 00:57:07.570
just come and catch them easily, right? It's

00:57:07.570 --> 00:57:10.929
still very old thinking. There's no, this is

00:57:10.929 --> 00:57:15.150
a government approved casino. No way. Lee Kuan

00:57:15.150 --> 00:57:17.289
Yew, my hero, will never approve something like

00:57:17.289 --> 00:57:22.190
this. So the disjoints and the change of values,

00:57:22.369 --> 00:57:24.710
right? And also the fact that I get a chance

00:57:24.710 --> 00:57:28.260
to speak Teochew. in the film. He won quite a

00:57:28.260 --> 00:57:30.400
lot of awards. Oh, this one won awards. Speaking

00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:32.619
of awards, Michael, let me just honour you now.

00:57:32.900 --> 00:57:37.460
Can we please play the Best Actor award? Here

00:57:37.460 --> 00:58:05.860
you go. Go for it, man. Actually, I didn't think

00:58:05.860 --> 00:58:09.219
I would get this award, so I didn't prepare to

00:58:09.219 --> 00:58:13.619
say anything. I can only say thank you to everyone,

00:58:13.800 --> 00:58:24.159
thank you to Mr. Ping Pang. Thank you! So tell

00:58:24.159 --> 00:58:26.400
me about that, man. This award that you won here,

00:58:26.440 --> 00:58:29.659
this one. Yeah, this one is the Rhapsody of Time.

00:58:29.920 --> 00:58:32.099
Oh, that's the one you won the award for this

00:58:32.099 --> 00:58:34.260
show? Yeah. Just as the story you were telling

00:58:34.260 --> 00:58:37.139
me about. Oh, wow. And that guy that gave away

00:58:37.139 --> 00:58:38.880
the award looks like the former president of

00:58:38.880 --> 00:58:47.760
Tony Tan. Yeah. Was he? No. No? Is there a definition

00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:54.119
of success as an actor? Yes, to tell stories

00:58:54.119 --> 00:58:57.159
that make positive influence on people's life.

00:58:57.320 --> 00:59:01.679
To me, that is the success of an actor. Okay.

00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:09.579
How about directing then? Directing is the same,

00:59:09.699 --> 00:59:12.940
but it is a heavier responsibility because you

00:59:12.940 --> 00:59:15.099
are the one that steers the direction of the

00:59:15.099 --> 00:59:19.539
story and the depth of the story. Okay. An actor,

00:59:19.739 --> 00:59:22.139
no matter how difficult, you are in charge of

00:59:22.139 --> 00:59:25.199
yourself. The director is in charge of so many

00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:28.880
things. Oh my gosh, yes. The University of Newcastle,

00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:30.519
the Singapore campus, you're teaching there.

00:59:31.500 --> 00:59:37.639
What do you aim to impart to your students? To

00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:42.019
learn things hands -on as quickly as possible

00:59:42.019 --> 00:59:46.340
in small bites. So, in today's world, everybody

00:59:46.340 --> 00:59:50.630
has camera in the pocket right the mobile phone

00:59:50.630 --> 00:59:54.489
right and the old way of teaching is still to

00:59:54.489 --> 00:59:57.070
teach you a lot of principles then you have a

00:59:57.070 --> 01:00:00.349
shot in mid okay right that may be one term right

01:00:00.349 --> 01:00:04.829
and I think that's passe because for instance

01:00:04.829 --> 01:00:10.150
when I teach them about framing visual framing

01:00:10.150 --> 01:00:13.989
right okay symmetry one third rule repeated patterns

01:00:15.500 --> 01:00:18.760
a frame within a frame and so on right so when

01:00:18.760 --> 01:00:23.280
I teach that I talk about that for half an hour

01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:26.139
then another half an hour videos to illustrate

01:00:26.139 --> 01:00:29.059
because when I talk even draw diagrams it's not

01:00:29.059 --> 01:00:32.699
as clean so thankfully nowadays good YouTube

01:00:32.699 --> 01:00:35.340
videos another half an hour and that's it that's

01:00:35.340 --> 01:00:38.360
enough of the theory then for the next two hours

01:00:38.360 --> 01:00:41.380
I'll get them into groups to go outside the campus

01:00:41.380 --> 01:00:47.400
and take photographs and 10 second, 20 second

01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:49.900
videos based on the principles I've taught them.

01:00:50.320 --> 01:00:52.980
And I say, I'll be going around to ask you questions.

01:00:53.820 --> 01:00:56.079
And if you don't know how to answer, that means

01:00:56.079 --> 01:00:58.760
you didn't understand anything I taught. But

01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:01.940
so far that hasn't happened. And if you give

01:01:01.940 --> 01:01:05.460
your opinions that are different from mine, doesn't

01:01:05.460 --> 01:01:07.599
mean you're wrong because you are able to explain

01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:09.400
based on the principles. You can't be wrong.

01:01:09.559 --> 01:01:13.260
So you're an adjunct. Adjunct, yeah. And you,

01:01:15.980 --> 01:01:18.599
You yourself didn't go through formal acting

01:01:18.599 --> 01:01:21.619
training, but through the years, the 15 years

01:01:21.619 --> 01:01:25.880
of acting, because of your experience, the university

01:01:25.880 --> 01:01:31.059
had you to teach. Yeah, yeah. When I was at the

01:01:31.059 --> 01:01:33.139
interview, I told them, look, I don't have a

01:01:33.139 --> 01:01:36.400
drama degree. I don't have a film production

01:01:36.400 --> 01:01:42.719
degree. I have a cybersecurity degree. the interviewer

01:01:42.719 --> 01:01:44.860
look at my CV and say no you're more than qualified

01:01:44.860 --> 01:01:48.699
and I was I was stunned nobody tell me that before

01:01:48.699 --> 01:01:50.579
usually they say you're over qualified or not

01:01:50.579 --> 01:01:54.500
qualified right and yeah well that's fantastic

01:01:54.500 --> 01:01:59.119
isn't it but I think something as practical as

01:01:59.119 --> 01:02:01.940
acting and film production experience counts

01:02:01.940 --> 01:02:06.739
more because I've seen some lectures like elsewhere

01:02:06.739 --> 01:02:10.480
and It's just too theoretical. And then they

01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:13.500
break the practice so far away. My practice,

01:02:13.539 --> 01:02:15.920
after one hour, they get to practice it. And

01:02:15.920 --> 01:02:17.760
they get feedback. They get feedback from themselves.

01:02:17.800 --> 01:02:20.179
They get feedback from me. And then I'll show

01:02:20.179 --> 01:02:23.360
their fragments of work in class as a post -mortem.

01:02:23.679 --> 01:02:28.079
And they can enjoy it, right? Right. So what

01:02:28.079 --> 01:02:32.699
do you personally gain from this teaching? I

01:02:32.699 --> 01:02:36.719
think I have to share my stuff before I die,

01:02:36.800 --> 01:02:38.619
I suppose. One day we are all going to die. So

01:02:38.619 --> 01:02:42.780
it's a legacy. So to share. No, legacy means

01:02:42.780 --> 01:02:45.340
they have to remember. By leaving it behind is

01:02:45.340 --> 01:02:47.519
for people to remember and carry forward. It's

01:02:47.519 --> 01:02:50.880
also legacy, right? Yeah, kind of, yeah. So that

01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:54.360
they, especially, I find that the methods of

01:02:54.360 --> 01:02:58.980
teaching has to change. Teaching has to be more

01:02:58.980 --> 01:03:02.579
experiential. It's not a sage on the stage. talking

01:03:02.579 --> 01:03:06.940
down to students one direction it has to be experiential

01:03:06.940 --> 01:03:09.460
yeah and of course you still have to teach them

01:03:09.460 --> 01:03:12.239
principles that should be as short as possible

01:03:12.239 --> 01:03:14.880
after that should be break up to practice and

01:03:14.880 --> 01:03:17.239
let people just get wet get the feet wet and

01:03:17.239 --> 01:03:20.360
today you can do that easily and cheaply because

01:03:20.360 --> 01:03:23.880
technology is in your pocket literally yeah You

01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:25.500
don't have to check out equipment after that

01:03:25.500 --> 01:03:28.019
lost equipment, pay up, you know, shuffle six.

01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:31.960
Hopefully one day, you know, as I get, as I grow

01:03:31.960 --> 01:03:35.940
up, some university will say, Chris, can you

01:03:35.940 --> 01:03:37.519
teach us? You should, you should, you should.

01:03:37.539 --> 01:03:39.340
I don't know, man, whether that ever happened.

01:03:39.519 --> 01:03:44.079
I teach, but I teach private students, so. Moving

01:03:44.079 --> 01:03:49.840
on. What if, Michael, that Facebook photo didn't

01:03:49.840 --> 01:03:52.670
lead you or hadn't led you to acting? what do

01:03:52.670 --> 01:03:57.469
you imagine your career and life path might really

01:03:57.469 --> 01:04:00.349
look like now? Well, I guess I'll never know.

01:04:01.449 --> 01:04:04.090
Just imagine it. I mean, you're an actor, you

01:04:04.090 --> 01:04:06.469
imagine it. Would you have found another creative

01:04:06.469 --> 01:04:10.690
outlet? No, I think I'll imagine that I'll go

01:04:10.690 --> 01:04:15.449
back to Europe and continue to become an independent

01:04:15.449 --> 01:04:19.519
consultant. For the cybersecurity arena. The

01:04:19.519 --> 01:04:21.280
reason why I'm staying here and not going to

01:04:21.280 --> 01:04:23.960
Europe and why the technology pays a lot more,

01:04:24.039 --> 01:04:29.500
I believe it. Because if I'm in France or Belgium

01:04:29.500 --> 01:04:32.539
and all those countries, the chances of me being

01:04:32.539 --> 01:04:35.199
able to act is very slim because you're required

01:04:35.199 --> 01:04:37.519
to speak French and if they need somebody to

01:04:37.519 --> 01:04:39.539
speak French, they can find a Vietnamese local

01:04:39.539 --> 01:04:43.940
born, whatever, even Asiatic face. So that's

01:04:43.940 --> 01:04:46.880
the reason why I stay in Singapore mainly. Okay.

01:04:47.360 --> 01:04:50.719
You wrote a book, your novel, called Made in

01:04:50.719 --> 01:04:55.159
Singapore. What's all that about? And what prompted

01:04:55.159 --> 01:04:58.619
you to write that book? I collected a lot of

01:04:58.619 --> 01:05:02.360
stories verbally from maids and security guards,

01:05:02.420 --> 01:05:07.440
employers, etc. And I find that these stories

01:05:07.440 --> 01:05:13.809
are not always very just. the mates are always

01:05:13.809 --> 01:05:18.369
on the receiving end unfairly usually I do not

01:05:18.369 --> 01:05:22.090
want to make it as a documentary and it'd be

01:05:22.090 --> 01:05:24.429
too social realistic and too painful to watch

01:05:24.429 --> 01:05:28.429
so I make it a comedy and throw in some love

01:05:28.429 --> 01:05:32.110
and it becomes a romantic comedy and that's the

01:05:32.110 --> 01:05:34.769
purpose to highlight some of the things that

01:05:34.769 --> 01:05:41.130
happens to mates so for instance there's an unwritten

01:05:41.130 --> 01:05:44.940
rule that Security guards cannot date mates.

01:05:45.619 --> 01:05:49.000
Unwritten rule. Is that right? Yeah. Security

01:05:49.000 --> 01:05:53.320
guards that found dating mates, either fired

01:05:53.320 --> 01:05:57.039
or posted elsewhere. What reasons? I don't know.

01:05:57.199 --> 01:05:59.619
I don't know. Good grief. And some places, they

01:05:59.619 --> 01:06:03.199
don't allow mates to use the swimming pool. Yeah.

01:06:03.460 --> 01:06:07.159
Yeah, stuff like that. Lots of places actually.

01:06:07.340 --> 01:06:11.789
I make it as a comedy. Okay. How did you do that

01:06:11.789 --> 01:06:15.650
publication? Moderately. I mean, I didn't have

01:06:15.650 --> 01:06:19.789
any budget for publicity. In fact, National Library

01:06:19.789 --> 01:06:22.570
Board was very nice. They wanted to help me launch

01:06:22.570 --> 01:06:26.010
for free. Wow. But it was COVID and then they

01:06:26.010 --> 01:06:30.119
came back and said, no, we can't do it. You also

01:06:30.119 --> 01:06:33.059
enjoy making tropical fruit wines, fusion dishes.

01:06:33.059 --> 01:06:36.000
I do that too. Oh my God. I mean, all these things,

01:06:36.059 --> 01:06:40.320
you know, the book, the creating tropical fruit

01:06:40.320 --> 01:06:45.159
wine and fusion dishes, writing, culinary arts,

01:06:45.320 --> 01:06:49.420
they connect, do they connect for you or inform,

01:06:49.619 --> 01:06:53.059
you know, sort of help you out in your creativity,

01:06:53.139 --> 01:06:55.400
fulfillment consulting? Yes, yes, yes. Because,

01:06:56.590 --> 01:06:58.510
Every batch of wine is different. Every fruit

01:06:58.510 --> 01:07:01.349
is different. Even if you buy from the same vineyard,

01:07:01.409 --> 01:07:04.250
every season is different. So you really have

01:07:04.250 --> 01:07:10.750
to kind of feel the fruit. And then as it ferments,

01:07:10.869 --> 01:07:13.110
you have to recognize, for example, the amount

01:07:13.110 --> 01:07:16.030
of bubbles. When is the bubble going to die?

01:07:16.230 --> 01:07:18.630
You must not let the bubble die totally because

01:07:18.630 --> 01:07:23.610
then fermentation stops and it's not going to

01:07:23.610 --> 01:07:26.869
work. No, it's not going to work. And it becomes

01:07:26.869 --> 01:07:32.429
vinegar. Yeah, so you have to, a lot of judgment,

01:07:32.690 --> 01:07:37.250
subjective judgment, and that's art. The fusion

01:07:37.250 --> 01:07:41.250
part is that sometimes I try out things, for

01:07:41.250 --> 01:07:46.070
example, the papaya wine, when it's very young,

01:07:46.170 --> 01:07:50.090
say, I think generally, Papaya wine? Yeah, that

01:07:50.090 --> 01:07:53.170
one's a good one. Generally, after four days,

01:07:53.250 --> 01:07:56.980
then it starts to produce alcohol. Wow. Yeah,

01:07:57.000 --> 01:07:59.300
normally. So if you have Muslim friend, you ask

01:07:59.300 --> 01:08:03.019
them, hey, come and get before day four. I have

01:08:03.019 --> 01:08:05.179
a friend always come for my ginger wine, but

01:08:05.179 --> 01:08:08.559
before day four. So because before the alcohol.

01:08:08.780 --> 01:08:12.659
Yeah, then I say you drink before day five. So

01:08:12.659 --> 01:08:14.980
anyway, when it's very young, the wine is sweet.

01:08:15.039 --> 01:08:16.659
You know that, right? Young wines. Yeah, yeah,

01:08:16.699 --> 01:08:21.319
yeah. So the papaya wine, when it's young, it

01:08:21.319 --> 01:08:24.880
still retains the papaya taste and is sweet.

01:08:25.510 --> 01:08:28.109
And I can make it thick. I can adjust that and

01:08:28.109 --> 01:08:31.130
make it thick. And then I use it as salad dressing.

01:08:31.569 --> 01:08:34.710
Oh, fantastic. Nice. So there's still a bit of

01:08:34.710 --> 01:08:39.829
alcoholic taste and papaya taste. My goodness.

01:08:40.270 --> 01:08:42.869
You're really a detailed guy. Fantastic. You

01:08:42.869 --> 01:08:45.930
really love the details. Detail after many failures.

01:08:46.810 --> 01:08:48.789
You got to experiment. When you experiment, you

01:08:48.789 --> 01:08:51.069
fail this. Of course, of course. So all these

01:08:51.069 --> 01:08:53.569
things, everything's got to do with your right

01:08:53.569 --> 01:08:56.300
brain. And a lot of you left as well because

01:08:56.300 --> 01:08:58.880
of the full detail. I think it's mixed. You have

01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:01.960
to be logical. You have to be logical. Resources

01:09:01.960 --> 01:09:04.960
are limited, so you have to plan carefully as

01:09:04.960 --> 01:09:08.100
well. What continues to excite you most about

01:09:08.100 --> 01:09:12.000
the diverse work you do every day? Everything

01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:15.039
is so diverse, including your interests. I suppose

01:09:15.039 --> 01:09:19.020
excitement has to be surprises. Of course, if

01:09:19.020 --> 01:09:21.380
I tell you boring stuff like I used to tell stories

01:09:21.380 --> 01:09:24.640
that impact people, that's true, but... If there's

01:09:24.640 --> 01:09:27.359
no surprises, it's less exciting, right? So when

01:09:27.359 --> 01:09:30.539
there are surprises that come in, for example,

01:09:30.539 --> 01:09:34.539
that Rhapsody of Time, I show it to Singaporeans

01:09:34.539 --> 01:09:37.159
and they can either, they relate to it because

01:09:37.159 --> 01:09:39.199
casino and all that. Then you'll choose it. And

01:09:39.199 --> 01:09:46.100
then I show it to a Filipino girl. And after

01:09:46.100 --> 01:09:49.739
that, I asked for her feedback. She kept quiet.

01:09:51.180 --> 01:09:54.159
She say, Actually, it's quite sad, isn't it?

01:09:54.239 --> 01:09:58.680
I said, what's so sad? So he set off from China

01:09:58.680 --> 01:10:03.539
and told the mother he's going back. And in the

01:10:03.539 --> 01:10:07.340
end, he didn't even send money back and mother

01:10:07.340 --> 01:10:10.460
died and he didn't achieve anything. So she saw

01:10:10.460 --> 01:10:14.960
a different perspective of the story. Wow. Yeah.

01:10:15.720 --> 01:10:18.260
I didn't expect that. I wouldn't have expected

01:10:18.260 --> 01:10:20.779
that either. But because she's not Singaporean,

01:10:20.800 --> 01:10:23.800
she doesn't relate from the main gist of the

01:10:23.800 --> 01:10:26.279
story. She sees it as something else. But what

01:10:26.279 --> 01:10:28.859
she saw is even more generic. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:10:30.100 --> 01:10:33.260
But I think it's kind of powerful still. I think

01:10:33.260 --> 01:10:35.979
it's because most Filipinos are still working

01:10:35.979 --> 01:10:38.420
abroad. Correct. So she can relate that. Yeah,

01:10:38.420 --> 01:10:41.300
maybe. So you see, everyone's set experiences

01:10:41.300 --> 01:10:45.170
will see things from... from their own mind's

01:10:45.170 --> 01:10:49.529
eye you know they get they get a message that

01:10:49.529 --> 01:10:51.729
only they can relate to so these are the kind

01:10:51.729 --> 01:10:57.229
of surprises quite cool I showed it to American

01:10:57.229 --> 01:11:01.810
army people and I was surprised they didn't understand

01:11:01.810 --> 01:11:04.729
the Singlish of course they understood the story

01:11:04.729 --> 01:11:07.590
they say I've seen many people like this in the

01:11:07.590 --> 01:11:12.850
US army the career soldiers who really all Absolutely

01:11:12.850 --> 01:11:15.770
committed to being at home. So I love to have

01:11:15.770 --> 01:11:18.890
all these continuous small surprises coming in.

01:11:19.130 --> 01:11:21.869
Makes life very interesting. Even Titan Academy,

01:11:21.930 --> 01:11:26.930
I think there are some surprises too. How much

01:11:26.930 --> 01:11:30.130
do you believe, okay, let me just rephrase it

01:11:30.130 --> 01:11:36.569
this way. Does it pay to dream, Michael? You

01:11:36.569 --> 01:11:39.409
mean financially? No, dream. Oh, does it pay

01:11:39.409 --> 01:11:42.329
to dream? Yes, yes, yes. Why do you say that?

01:11:42.630 --> 01:11:47.310
Well, then I get to walk a path that I want to

01:11:47.310 --> 01:11:50.909
and it's a beautiful path. So, is there a reason

01:11:50.909 --> 01:11:52.670
why you're going to do this? Because we're going

01:11:52.670 --> 01:11:54.770
to end the show right now. Is that the reason

01:11:54.770 --> 01:11:58.270
why you did this and this is how we're going

01:11:58.270 --> 01:12:00.489
to end the show? And before we end the show,

01:12:00.510 --> 01:12:03.130
Kai, don't go yet. Don't be trigger happy. You

01:12:03.130 --> 01:12:05.829
said dream. Does it pay to dream? We're going

01:12:05.829 --> 01:12:07.829
to play something to end this episode, people,

01:12:07.909 --> 01:12:12.239
of Michael. performing something about dreaming.

01:12:12.560 --> 01:12:14.800
And that's how we're going to end today's episode.

01:12:15.060 --> 01:12:21.399
And next week, you will find that we'll come

01:12:21.399 --> 01:12:24.960
to the last episode of the season. That's it.

01:12:25.159 --> 01:12:29.119
That's going to be the end of season five. And

01:12:29.119 --> 01:12:33.220
we will end the show with the first... and only

01:12:33.220 --> 01:12:36.800
episode for this season of the UFO Reveal Asia.

01:12:37.659 --> 01:12:40.300
And that one's going to be called The Age of

01:12:40.300 --> 01:12:43.619
Disclosure. And I'm going to have my ufologist

01:12:43.619 --> 01:12:46.119
back, Ignatius Bong. So join us for the season

01:12:46.119 --> 01:12:49.720
finale next week as well. And in studio with

01:12:49.720 --> 01:12:51.760
me, Michael Chua. Thank you very much for being

01:12:51.760 --> 01:12:53.779
here with me. Thank you so much. And this is

01:12:53.779 --> 01:12:56.600
Chris Hansen. You guys take care and see you

01:12:56.600 --> 01:13:01.060
soon. Bye -bye. Bye. Play it now, Kai. Let it

01:13:01.060 --> 01:13:38.430
rip. Three, two, one. dream dream dream dream