There you go. See the resemblance? Yeah, really.
The reason why I flashed that one out. Good grief.
Look at that. I know straight away it's Felix
Cheung, man. So in another life, probably when
we are bitten by zombies and then become zombified,
that is probably how I would look. With eyes
all turned black and stuff. This is Ari's work,
right? Yes. Welcome to the pilot episode of Ink
Spill. The Chris Hansen Conversation have already
established for some time our tribute to SG Music
icons dedicated to musicians as well as broadcast
personalities, bar and club owners of the past,
present and future. But... We've decided that
we need to create a new series dedicated to writers
of literary works of both fiction, non -fiction,
poetry even, and graphic novels. Except for,
of course, the self -help kind of books. Not
interested. We want to promote reading and writing
as part of Singapore culture because I think
we're simply not doing enough of those. So if
you're a writer... with a new publication or
you are a budding writer with your first publication,
drop me a DM. You should know how to find me.
Eh, you know, perhaps we should produce a series
for painters and artists and call it Hate Job.
Somehow, I don't think that sounds very right.
But such a sweetheart he is. Such a nice guy.
He's probably 80 something. 85. 85. And what
a gentleman. Still lucid. Very. Sharp as. Sharp
as tacks. Is that the right thing? The right
euphemism? Sharp as knife. Sharp as tacks, right?
T -A -C -K -S. T -A -C -K -S. Tum tacks tacks.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. See, I must be careful,
you know. Don't need lah. Have to be careful.
I got writers with me. Good grief. You're also
a writer, what? What? Please lah, you. Because
you write intro. Ah, yeah, please lah. You write
questions. I do it. So in a sense, you're a journalist.
Oh, no, I'm not. My sister, if she hears this
now, she'll probably be laughing her ass off.
Welcome back to the show, to the Chris Hansen
Conversation. I hope you've been enjoying Season
5 so far. My guest on this pilot episode of Ink
Spill is a best -selling author of 30 books across
different genres, from poetry to fiction, from
children's picture books to young adult fiction.
Two of his graphic novels, Gokeng Sui, a Singaporean
for all seasons. We've talked about that two
seasons ago. As a matter of fact, we did do an
episode on that particular graphic novel. And
the showgirl and the minister, well, that one
sounds saucy, were amongst the top five bestsellers
in Amazon .sj. He has also written three opera
librettos, and his works have been widely...
anthologized and nominated for the prestigious
Frank O 'Connor Award and the Singapore Literature
Prize. Conferred the Young Artist Award in 2000
by the National Arts Council, my guest has been
invited to writers' festivals all over the world,
such as Edinburgh, Austin, Sydney, and Christchurch.
He holds a Master's in Creative Writing and is
currently a university adjunct lecturer. His
latest graphic novel, Be Real, A Guide to Authenticity
is his fifth collaboration with Arif Rafan. There
you go. That's the look. Look at a gorgeous,
gorgeous front cover, man. And he is, ladies
and gentlemen, my guest, Felix Cheung. Thank
you very much for inviting me here again. Yeah,
you're welcome, Felix. Now, let's take a look
at Felix Cheung from the graphic novel. There
you go. See the resemblance? I don't know. Yeah,
really. The reason why I flashed that one up
is because good grief, a look that I know straight
away, it's Felix Cheung, man. So in another live,
probably... When we are bitten by zombies and
then become zombified. That is probably how I
would look. With eyes all turned black and stuff.
This is Ari's work, right? Yes. So this is how
he sees how zombies actually look like. I mean,
we've seen them all, right? We've seen them all.
28 days later, 35, what, weeks later? 38 weeks
later? 28 weeks later. There's another sequel
coming up. 28 years later. Oh gosh, okay. And
then, of course, the infamous Walking Dead series.
Walking Dead series. Which I got so tired of
following after a while. And then the one with
Brad Pitt in it. What was he? And that one, you
got them running at breakneck speed. Faster than
Hussein Bolt. And of course, the Korean version
is a train from Busan. Kingdom was very good.
Oh, I love the Kingdom. I love Kingdom. I love
the Kingdom. Freaking scary, man. But I love
the story though. And I love how they managed
to transpose this zombie genre into like a period.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brilliant, huh? Brilliant.
Yeah, very good idea. Whatever the script writer
was, hats off, man. Yeah, yeah, I love it, man.
But you know, I'm kind of curious because the
title. Okay, first of all, for those of you who
are watching, be forewarned for spoilers, okay?
Be forewarned. I'm going to be asking quite a
number of questions from the author of this graphic
novel, Be Real, A Guide to Authenticity, and
go buy one, but spoilers. It's going to start
right now. I particularly want to find out how
the hell did you come up with this title? Which
is really weird because it's a zombie novel.
Yes. I mean, in broad, it is, right? It's counterintuitive
because it sounds like a typical title for a
self -help book. Yeah. Right? Something you'll
pick off the shelves at Kinokuniya or MPH. Yeah.
And it is not what you expect a zombie novel
or graphic novel to sound like. Precisely. So,
yeah, precisely. So, it's counterintuitive. There's
no dead or living dead. There was zombie in it.
But because I tried to build into this satire,
it's actually a very satirical story, how Singaporeans
love to read non -fiction, particularly self
-help books. So, part of the story involves the
protagonist. Zachary Kwan, trying to write a
self -help book, which later on became kind of
hijacked by the publisher to take on another
persona, a pseudonym. It was a bit complicated
without giving too many spoilers away. But Felix,
you know, when you said, when you said, self
-help book sounds like a title of a self -help
book you're right but you know what i did which
you have not heard yet this episode of ours is
the pilot of my new series called ink spill and
um there's an introduction for this episode okay
which you will see once we release this episode
of course and when i introduce what ink spill
is all about and since we're talking about this
i would just say to you that i did mention that
we are going to be open for writers okay of literary
works inclusive of poetry even fiction non -fiction
and graphic novels but please if you're doing
a self -help book thing please stay away and
is it I mean in your mind is it true that Singaporeans
actually go after a lot more of self -help stuff.
Yeah, definitely. If you check out the National
Library Board's list of titles that Singaporeans
love to read, self -help books usually come up
right to the top. yeah very near the top I mean
okay we all gotta go see Shrinks I think yes
well we are pragmatic people by inclination so
we love to read about how to improve ourselves
get further ahead you're so politically correct
Felix Chong you're so always politically correct
no I'm not this book is politically incorrect
I know that's why I got a lot of questions to
ask you yes please fire away another 45 minutes
we are practical people we are aren't we I don't
know about that um I particularly like this bit,
though, of the title, Authenticity. You know
why? Because I always publicize this. Can we
have that one? Yeah, you see? You see the last
bit there? The most authentic conversations in
Singapore, man. So it really grabbed me, though.
I like that word. Yeah. Well, it's been kind
of used, overused. It's become a buzzword. Has
it? Yeah. Authentic, be real, be yourself, be
true. It's become such a buzzword that now it's
become bastardized. And that was one of the reasons
why I incorporated it in my story as one of the
themes. Because I felt that when I studied the
zombie genre and I tried to see how... to make
it more relevant. Right. Because a zombie book
or zombie story is never about zombies per se.
Right. There is always an underlying theme that
becomes something that is contemporary. Okay.
That speaks to your target audience. Right. So
I was looking at how cancer culture and zombism
have similarities in terms of how they attack
something. So, cancel culture is not anything
new. So, it's like a mob thing. It's like a mob
thing, exactly. Right. More violence. Right.
It dates back all the way back to Jesus Christ's
time. Right. When, you know, the Pharisees and
the Jews. Crucify him. Crucify him. That's more
violence. Right. And Jesus Christ was cancelled.
Right. He was crucified, he was cancelled. Same
thing with Shakespeare as well. If you think
about Julius Caesar. Yes. And after Caesar was
assassinated and how fickle the Roman crowd was,
the whole mob there. Yes. At first they were
convinced by Brutus. Then after that they got
even more convinced by Mark Anthony. Yes. And
fickle as hell. And they flipped. And they flipped.
And then there you go, cancelled culture. Yes.
There and then. something that is not new, just
that we gave it a new name, Cancer Culture, but
it's really more violence being channeled into
a particular target. But it's also the flip side
of idol worship. Because if you look at how girls
used to go crazy over Elvis Presley, the Beatles,
it's the same kind of euphoria and energy. that
gets channeled into a particular group, particular
target. You also look at how, for example, the
BTS ARMY, the moment you say anything bad about
any of these boys, that's it. Same thing about
football. Yeah, same thing about football, whether...
Fans is short for fanatics. Yes, exactly. I never
saw that. That's a nice one. Really? You never
saw that? Okay, I can be a writer. Yes, definitely.
You wrote... Aspire to be authentic. And there's
this quote that came up. Kai, can we flash that
one? Yeah, thank you. Don't worry about being
good. Aspire to be authentic. And then it's from
this guy named Jan Martel. Beatrice and Virgil.
Sorry, pardon my stupidity or ignorance, man.
Is that real? Yeah, it's real. Who the hell is
Jan Martel? Jan Martel was the guy who wrote
The Life of Pi. It became into a winning movie
for a boy on the boat with a tiger. So what's
your take? Don't worry about being good. Aspire
to be authentic. That's the kind of buzzword
of our time that everybody has to be real, authentic.
So my book tries to question the whole idea of
authenticity. So basically people, you're saying
that people may not really get the idea of what
authenticity truly means. Not only that, in putting
up an authentic self, like when you take a selfie
without makeup, you flash it on your Instagram,
you think it's authentic, but it's really putting
up, it's performative, it's a front. Okay. It's
just telling the world, this is my face, but
what is the face behind the face? Okay. Behind
the facade. So basically, so whatever it is,
most things are not real then. Yeah, I suppose.
Yeah, could not be real. But the whole idea of
real is big question. It's vague, right? It's
vague because there are many real selves that
we have. Yeah, different masks. Different masks
that we put on, persona. Right. So you can't
really question or talk about. You know, this
is my real self. How do you come up with this
idea, man, about, you know, your whole, this
is basically the skeleton of your entire story,
right? Yes, exactly. What made you come up with
that, man? I mean, you really think a lot, man,
dude. I mean, come on. I mean, what's really
been going through, like, wow, you know, I wonder
whether or not people are really being, I mean,
dude, really? Well, this is one of those things
that I think about on my long bus journey on
the RT. So you're always reflecting and stuff
like that. Thinking about things like that. And
also because when I proposed to Arif Rafan, this
was like three years ago. Was there a type of
or a genre of graphic novel he has not done yet
that he would like to do? He said, I'd like to
do a graphic novel on zombies. So I started musing
about it, exploring the genre and looking at
how other people have done it. And then I found
there's a little niche here, a little gap that
nobody has tried to write about. So I started
exploring this idea of turning zombie -ism into
a kind of fanatic mob violence. Right. And that
was the starting point. Back to the title. Interestingly,
the whole title was actually contributed by AI.
CatGBT. Strangely enough. That's not real. Yeah,
that's not real. But the writing, of course,
the whole book is real. So I asked Chad GPT to
generate a series of titles for me that supposedly
about a self -help book about authenticity. And
this was one of the ones that he came up with.
I thought, that's a cool title for a zombie book
because it's very different from what you normally
would see. Actually, to be fair, man, as a tool,
I use a lot of... because I'm giving these people
free advertising. I don't use ChatGPT. I use
Gemini, Google's Gemini. I prefer Google's Gemini.
I mean, I train the guy so well, you know. And
I generate titles also through, you know, through
Gemini, through AI. But interestingly, you're
talking, you're writing, you wrote a book. Let's
call it a book just for brevity's sake, yeah?
You wrote a book that's about authenticity, but
you leaned on artificial intelligence. So there's
some kind of irony there, isn't it? There's irony.
There is lots of meta -reference, self -referential
stuff about the art of writing, the process of
writing and generating ideas. Right. And it also
generated that character in your graphic novel,
the one that's... The Ghostwriter. The Ghostwriter,
yes. Towards the end, you see actually the process
that I went through and Averith and I went through.
So that's why towards the end, you will see a
few pages of our work in progress. And people
bought it to someone that's fake. I'm fake? I
could be fake. I'm not here. No, no, no. I'm
saying that Ghostwriter. That character, Serafina,
right? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, and the mob
went crazy. Oh, the mob, yes, they went crazy.
That's what I meant, man. Don't get me the wrong
way. I thought you were shooting arrows at me.
No, I'm not shooting arrows at you, man. That's
why I kind of felt that you thought that way.
No, I actually meant that the mob, the readers
in that book, in your book, that actually went
absolutely gaga over her book. right? Which is
not her. She's generated by AI, right? And they
went crazy over someone that isn't real. That's
what I meant. I think that was a very nice plot
twist. Really? No, that's what I meant, man.
Oh, geez. Okay. Nothing personal. No, of course,
I'm not here to be personal. But I realized Arif
did a great job in the graphics, man. I love
the graphics. But compared to the last graphic
novel that we talked about, you were on my show
with Sinan, and looking at his illustrations
and how his artwork looks like versus Ari's.
Why the stark difference? Why did you, sorry,
yeah, I'm not trying to stir any crap here, but
the graphics for Go King Sui's book, The Man
for All Seasons, versus this one, starkly different.
Did you deliberately choose? to make the graphics
different for this particular book? I pretty
much left it to Arif to do the artwork. So I
let him free reign whatever he saw fit to illustrate.
It was really up to him, his artistic vision.
Although we did talk about some of the artwork,
the style before he started. drawing the whole
book right so you will show me some sketches
and say i love this i think i mean i'm not trying
to stir any any sort of pot here because you
can go like for me if i go for get new ink done
right if there's a specific kind of style or
genre of ink that i want or design i want on
my body i will go to the artist that does stuff
that way that specializes in that particular
kind of art so that's hence my question Was there
a reason for you wanting to have a different
form of art for this particular effort? Well,
with Sinan, I think his speciality and the way
that he draws is very traditional. And he's good
with portraying real people. And that's why I
went to him. And he does a lot of meticulous
research. So there are specific reasons. Why
then? There are specific reasons, although I
feel... Arif can also do the same if I were to
pass him the project on Gokeng. But the feel
would be different. The feel would be different.
Yeah. For him, I think his style is a lot more
contemporary and less imposed by the panels.
Because if you look at the way Singhan draws,
he follows a very strict grid in terms of how
he formulates the pitch. and designs the page.
It's like your old Commando comics and stuff.
Yes. That kind of traditional format. So if I
were to do something more historical, I would
go to him. Right. He would be my go -to guy.
Right. In fact, my next two graphic novels would
be done by him. Right. Whereas with Arif, I think
his feel and his artistic inclination, his bent,
I think is a lot more contemporary, less... Constrained
by... More DC. More DC kind of style. DC, not
really Marvel, but more DC style. More DC, yes.
Yeah? It seems that way. When I flipped the first
couple of pages, it does seem that way. Yeah.
And he likes to break out the panel. Right. And
he likes to do funky things, you know, with splashes
and double spreads and so on. The main character
in your book, Zachary Tang, who is he? Here's
the sum total of all the writers that you've
ever met or never read. And a bit of myself,
of course. Okay. Everything seems to be a bit
of you. Even for the last book, The Gokeng Sweet
Man for All Seasons, some of the characters in
there is based on you, right? I remember that.
And this one as well. So is this a writer thing?
When you get into your internal monologue and
then you start writing stuff, you can't help
but to just look at yourself? I suppose because
the starting point is always you are the writer.
So whatever experience or hangups or bad experiences,
good experiences, happiness, sadness, whatever
you've had in your life filters through in your
writing. Right. Whether you're conscious of it
or not. Some writers are conscious of it. Some
writers are not. Okay. So I guess, as they say,
don't make friends with writers because you may
end up. being cast as characters in their books.
Oh, crap. So it's true. Some of the characters
that you see in my books are aspects of people
that I know or aspects of myself. More importantly,
I think for the main character, I need to empathize
with the character. Right. Otherwise, I can't
write him in a way that is true, that word again,
true, authentic. So I need to find an entry point
into. His personality. Okay, now that you say
that psyche, part of it has you in it, of course,
as you just elaborated, right? Now, this is where
I come to this little cheeky part here. Can we
flash the first pic of You Know What now, Kai,
right? This. Man About Town. What about Man About
Town? That one. There you go. Interestingly,
now I've got a, because it's too small for me
to, so I have it on my phone. And, and, it says
about the urban male, emasculated and nailed.
None more so than your latest Man About Town.
You're talking about who? You? No, of course
not. That's something out of, say, Fight Club.
Okay. Fight Club? Fight Club, because the whole
story of Fight Club is about the emasculated
male trying to get back at, get back his masculinity.
Right. You know, he's been screwing around the
scene for quite a while. And you know, something
I didn't expect, okay, call me a noob, yeah?
I didn't expect coming from you, man, a satire
about the existential, what anyway okay anyway
of a writer who's been around uh with women of
all shapes and in all i love the graphics i mean
all shapes i mean i can really see the difference
here man all shapes and in all positions whom
whom he rates by the political convictions uh
and then wow and the length of their orgasms
And I was like, and I was going, Felix Chung.
And then it goes on, it goes on to the next,
the next one, the next page. He says, regardless
if it's fake or the real thing, he even hooks
up with a gender fluid person. I mean, that's
more like modern times now, right? Yeah. Who
breaks him out of his straight -laced prison.
And after the carousel of flings, he marries
a model half his age. Well, again, he plays...
Quite risky, are you? A bit, a bit. But not too
much. Not too much to get me banned or cancelled
or censored. It's kind of... It really caught
my attention, I can tell you that much. Okay.
And I was going, hey, Felix Chong, where is this
going now? And he kept me flipping. Which is
good. So I've created a page turner. Yeah, you
did. I gotta admit. So, and it's... How long
did it take you to finish the book? An hour?
No, not at all. I had to go through this for
the purpose of today, right? I had to go through.
It took me maybe about 15, 20 minutes. Oh, that's
fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had to go breeze it
right through. But doesn't mean I didn't really
think through whatever I read. And you wrote
this. Predominantly in verse. Again, yes. Like
the one with Gokeng Sui, I wrote it in verse.
I think as we talked about before the last time
we met, I believe in trying to smuggle poetry
into my writing. So whether it's a graphic novel
or children's picture book, because I find it
is my own natural voice as a writer. Okay. don't
you worry sometimes I know we talked about it
before but don't you worry sometimes that your
readers might not be so sophisticated I think
as as they're reading the story kind of pulls
them along so they're not so concerned whether
it rhymes or maybe they don't even realize it
rhymes so the rhyming part maybe comes like an
afterthought right so as they're reading the
story pulls them along what's this character
doing what's happening oh This is so exciting.
I want to attend the next speech. Sure. But wouldn't
you be concerned still that maybe, and I'm being
an asshole when I say this, 70 % of the public
space might not really understand. Well, poetry
is in... Many of the songs that we are familiar
with, we grew up with, for example, take Bob
Dylan, The Beatles, even Taylor Swift. So it's
not anything extraordinary. It's just putting
it on the page. I'm still standing by my guns
on that, man, because I know we talked about
this before. What you just said is so familiar
to me. And frankly, I just feel it. When I was
reading this, poor people understand. That was
my take. I mean, I understand being a student
of literature, at least in school, you get some
kind of basic foundation, you know what I mean?
But it's still something very unusual to me to
have verse. included in graphic novels. You know,
just imagine if I'm reading DC and I'm reading
Marvel and I go, oi. Yeah. But wouldn't that
make you sit up and take notice if it's written
in verse? No, of course. Because, like I said,
it's because I have some basic foundation, you
know. But for those who don't have it, and nowadays,
I mean, look, the reason for ink spill, man,
come on. It's because it is not reading and writing
is. really departed from culture as far as Singaporeans
are concerned you know besides literature of
course it's history also you know it's taken
a nosedive yes right yeah so I and that's why
I'm trying to still encourage people pick up
a book read it you know even if it's going to
be a graphic novel let's call it a comic yeah
pick the damn thing up read it But not a self
-help book. Yeah, yeah, correct. Bloody hell,
that one you can go on YouTube. Yeah, so that
is still something that's a concern to me. You
know, I mean, every time I see something like
this and I go, you know, this is really fun.
It is to me, it's fun. I enjoyed it. I did. Yeah,
though I have some questions to ask you. Yeah,
please. But some parts of the book that I just
don't get. Call me stupid. Okay. The cancel culture
thing you mentioned about the woke movement,
we talked about that already. But this thing
about Zachary's wife, the va -va -va -voom. Yes.
And the part about Channel versus Chanel, I mean,
God, it really hit home, man. Because it's so
real here, don't you think? Okay, let me just
give you guys an idea without giving up too many
spoilers. You probably don't understand the context.
Let me give you some context. Some people, I
mean, inside Felix's new book, there was this
argument between... the main character and his
wife. And it was, just simply put, it's over
the term, the name, the brand name Chanel, which
she pronounces it as channel. And that is quite
relatable, don't you think? I mean, there's so
many things. I mean, come on, man. We've got
Louis Vuitton. We've got... G and G. Right? And
we've got people who just cannot pronounce French.
Sometimes Italian as well. And that's kind of
real because it's relatable. But I got to say,
you got to give Arif well done on this because
she's a babe. She is a babe. Can we please put
her back up again, Kai? What a babe. And you
know, and I looked at that picture and I said,
hang on. before I even discovered it, in the
next page or so, that's a Eurasian girl. Yes.
I knew it straight away. Yes. She was meant to
be a Eurasian girl. I know, but without even,
you know, him spilling his guts about a Eurasian
girl, the wife being Eurasian, I looked at her
picture and I looked at that drawing and I went,
good grief, that's a Eurasian girl. straight
away and i knew great stuff man i was going whoa
hot babe hot babe hot babe man i mean whoa but
she has fake boobs i don't care hot babe this
goes back to what we were talking about earlier
because it's what the whole book i was trying
to smuggle yeah it's fake i know it's not real
yes them boobs are fake So there are always aspects
of the book as the story unfolds in which you
have to question what is real, what is not. Is
this real? Is this not? Is this fake? Is this
not? So it keeps you on your toes as you're reading
the story. Yeah. And earlier on in the story,
Zachary was under fire, right? By cancel culture
by some woke women, right? Apparently feminists.
Yep. or so -called feminists. Are they real feminists?
Are they not? Or feminists who misunderstand
what true feminism means? We don't know, right?
Again. We're going into cancer culture here.
Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, look, my
faulty... No, I don't give a shit. Because, look,
faulty towers. Yes. They're being cancelled.
Yes. Little Britain. they're being cancelled
are you shitting me we got this crazy bunch of
woke people in the UK going after great stuff
where people used to be able to laugh at themselves
where we see and I tell you I deliberately look
for I deliberately go out there and I look for
snippets of classic British comedy that completely
breaks the rules of the rules of what society
think ought to be avoided today you know and
I just and I look and I watch these snips snippets
and I tell you to me right they are awesome still
funny as hell yeah still funny as hell I think
we have lost the capacity to laugh at ourselves
yeah because we become to bubble wrap you know
all these sensitivities cannot say this cannot
say that cannot do this cannot do that we become
to bubble wrap in this whole PC culture politically
correct culture yeah everything has to be give
a light touch so as not to offend. So it takes
the sting away from a lot of the comedy that
we grew up with. For example, a couple of friends
and I were chatting about Mind Your Language.
Yep, yep. That series would be cancelled. Cancelled
immediately, man. The first episode would also
end. They'll say it's racist. They'll say this
and that. But we grew up with it. Did we become
racist? No. I don't think we're racist. As a
matter of fact, when I think about this in Singapore's
context, when I sit at the coffee shop, who are
the friends around me? We've got Chindians, we've
got Indians, we've got Malays, we've got Malaysian,
we've got Hainanese, we've got Hokkien, we've
got Cantonese. We're all seated together. We
have Eurasian mix. We all sit around and we're
ribbing each other. But you know what? I mean,
my generation, at least, and the ones before
mine, we're okay. Yeah, we're okay with it. Yeah,
we are not. I mean, and we don't take things
too seriously. We don't take ourselves so seriously.
And I think that's a problem today. People don't
understand this. Look, come on, that's a fine
line here. I mean, it's a fine line, no doubt.
But draw that line. You don't need to really.
If we talk about racism, it's about your, when
we look at society, to me, it's like, do you
have tolerance when you have a Malay wedding
dance that's in Kampung playing and you go and
complain? Lion dance coming out playing and then
some other lot go and complain. Why? We used
to, instead, what we should be doing is to go
out there and congratulate people. You know,
or send blessings and wishes, right? We never
used to mind these things. Why are we minding
them now? To me, that is what you should be more
concerned about. It is not about, oh, this program
is too racist. I don't see why we should draw
these sort of parameters. It's just not right.
And I'm also against this whole movement to backtrack
into the past, into our cultural landmarks. Yeah,
yeah. And then start putting disclaimers on many
of these films, like, say, Gone with the Wind.
put all these disclaimers on breakfast at Tiffany's.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were such cultural landmarks
of our time. Yeah, and you can't change history.
This is what it was. You can't change history.
You can't change the context. We have to learn
from it. Yeah, we don't erase them. Don't erase
them. Yeah, it's as good as, okay, now that we
are, on this topic though, if we look at ancient
history even, if we look at, okay, this is going
to be a bit crazy. When we look at a pharaoh,
Akhenaten, Okay, for those of you who don't know,
Pharaoh and his wife was Nefertiti. These are
parents of the famous King Tut, Tutankhamun.
He wanted to start at that time because, you
know, they are a polyistic race, you know, religiously,
right? Multiple gods. He came and he said, no,
there can only be one god, and it's the sun god
Ra. And he created a religious revolution amongst
the ancient Egyptians of his time. And of course
he angered a lot of people, right? We don't know
whether he was murdered. I suppose he was. And
then of course they put a young 12 -year -old
boy to be the next pharaoh. But they chipped
off Akhenaten's name and his wife Nefertiti's
name off as many hieroglyphs as they could to
erase them from history. Have they been erased?
No. And we lament. about, hey, they shouldn't
have done that, you know? I mean, it happened,
right? It's when, like, a couple of years and
years and years ago, I don't know how long ago,
probably a couple of decades ago, when the Japanese
government tried to erase the Second War and
their involvement from their school history books.
And the world clamored against that. Is that
right or wrong? I think, come on, it happened.
You can't change what you did. You can't do that.
We can't just erase things so, you know, conveniently,
right? Same thing here. You've got a little Britain.
We enjoyed it then. You don't like, may not like
it now. Don't force it down someone else, everyone
else's throat. That's not right. So that brings
us back to the whole idea of more violence now,
but it's been, it's now being perpetuated a lot
more because of social media. It has a lot more
power to galvanize people, but also to, to, for
them to jump on the bandwagon because then it
becomes a greater force when you have people
from the US, from UK, Australia, Singapore coming
together and they think they are powerful with
one voice trying to cancel something or tell
you, okay, this is not right. So I think part
of the book kind of... place on this particular
theme. So you have an opinion about this then?
Yeah, I have a very strong opinion about this.
Yeah, you really don't like this wokeism and
cancel culture shit, right? Well, I think it's
taken to extremes already. Yeah, too many Karens
out there. Too many Karens. Sorry, the male part,
the male version of it is called Kevin. Sorry,
Kevins. Or the Ken. I don't know. I came up with
Kevin. Whoever the hell came up with Karen, I
don't know, man. I mean, but the zombie element,
man, that collective hive thing, that hive mind
thing, you know, of course, we know now, of course,
what you meant, you know, what it portrays would
be against wokeism, cancel culture, and it's
all a bunch of people coming together and getting
ugly as shit, right? But does it also represent
rage? Yeah, it's rage. Because of the violence.
Yes. So it's rage being channeled towards a particular
end goal, which is targeting a particular person,
particular organization. So it's, yeah, so it's
like, very much like the way a zombie comes at
you, you know, like World War Z, at the speed
of sound. Okay. So it's that, so, wouldn't wouldn't
it I mean to me the way I see it is maybe just
maybe these days people are just more filled
with rage than before it could be it could be
rage that Somehow, scrolling through your social
media, you kind of feel it. But it's an imagined
rage. It's not really real. It's conjured. It's
conjured because you look at somebody else's
post, then you get stirred or triggered because
someone said something. But a lot of times, most
of these people who are triggered, they don't
read. the subtext and nuance. They read the headlines
and then they get, oh my God, can you believe
this? So they fall into victims of clickbait
posts. So they don't go in depth into understanding
something. It is very superficial. It is at that
level of the headline or the tagline or the hashtag.
And that becomes a way for them to become keyboard
warriors. So people don't really find out the
context behind things. No context. Because they
don't even bother to read the content. Yeah.
Right? No content, no context. So read. Don't
just read for fun and scroll down. This TikTok
thing is killing everyone. It's true. It's true.
I tell you, I really don't encourage this. short
video kind of thing. Because, come on, I have
no time. I got no time. I got no time. It's mindless.
Yeah, mindless. That's what you become, zombie.
Yes, exactly. So I always say, people on the
phone, when they're having dinner on their phones,
zombie apocalypse. It's exactly what I understand
from what you're trying to, what you've achieved
here. But I want to discover this bit because
it confused me a bit. The main character, Zachary,
he became I don't know how he became patient
zero, so to speak, yeah? I don't want to let
go too many spoilers. He got bit by this hot
ex -girlfriend of his. Who's a reporter? Yeah,
who's a reporter, right? Was she, I didn't get
that bit, you know? Did she really bite him?
Well, it was initially a love bite, but then
later on, she betrayed him. Yeah, I know that.
No, no, no. Let's stick to that bite thing. Okay.
The bite thing, the love bite? Fuck, love bite.
It didn't seem like a love bite to me, man. It
didn't look like, I was, honestly, really, I
was looking at that picture, that graphic. I
said, she bit the guy. It didn't seem like a
love bite because of her eyes. The way her eyes
were going, it looked, come on, she looked possessed.
She looked possessed. And to me, I thought she
bit him. So was that a bite or a love bite? Confirm
for me, please. She's driving me up the wall.
It's both. I mean, why can't a bite be a love
bite and vice versa? Yeah, but she didn't pass
him that. She didn't pass him the virus. Yeah.
So the way I constructed the story, the premise
was that she became, he became, Zachary Kwan
became patient zero because of this whole internal
rage that he. head boiling in him. His wife died
because of an overdose of drugs. Ex -girlfriend,
you know, secretly recorded their twist at her
funeral and then later on published an article
about him not caring for her, letting her in.
Yeah, screwed him over basically. Screwed him
over and so he was filled with rage and he ran
out, did something to a dog in an alley and I
suppose the dog kind of transferred something
some viral thing into him okay yeah yeah so that
I that's where I got confused because I know
he he went to sink his teeth into a dog right
and that's where I that's where he got it but
what about that girl sinking her teeth into his
neck so that's where I got confused so she gave
him the impetus for the whole thing about be
real because before she bit him She said something
like, be real, be yourself, be true. Yeah, yeah,
that's what she said, yeah. Write about what
you know. Yeah. So I think that the biting and
the message that she gave him kind of became...
It became a buzzword for him. A buzz, yes. Yeah,
a kind of a keyword. That's why everywhere he
went, he was going, be real, be real, be real.
Anyway, that girl, hot babe too. I can tell that
she's Chinese. Okay. So many spoilers. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. But yeah, sorry about that, man.
But at least you get some context, right? When
you go through now. When you do buy the book
and have a look through. And what's with the
her, her, her and tap, tap, tap? That one I got
lost, man. I'm sorry. Tap, tap, tap, I suppose
is the sound effect of him running. Yeah, yeah,
yeah. That one I get. But the her, her, her.
I think it's her. Oh, okay. Chris, you're such
a dingbat. Okay. Because it was almost everywhere,
man. Yeah, is it zombie? Yeah, I know, I know,
I know, I know. It's just that I was really trying.
It didn't really, I couldn't, I'm sorry, but
I couldn't relate to what it was trying, the
audio that it was trying to describe. I couldn't
relate to that. Sorry, man. And Kinokuniya. Yes.
Everyone started going to Kinokuniya. It's about
to close or get smaller. Yes. Quite appropriate
now. Did you know that they were downsizing?
No. You didn't? I didn't. So it's just coincidental
that just at the point when this book is published
and out in the market. Kinokuniya announces there's
downsizing. Yeah, you know, for people who love
books, who love buying and reading books, right?
I think Kinokuniya is the last bastion of bookstores.
And then now they're downsizing. Then I saw this
and I went... Bloody hell. That's pretty smart,
man. I figured that you were trying to, you know,
tell people, look, all of a sudden, people want
to read books. Yes. And they're all converging
on Kinokuniya. Just for context, the beginning
of the story, the prologue, and then the end
of the story, both set in Kinokuniya. Yeah. The
one at Nian City. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so wonderful
because it really looks like Kinokuniya from
Nian City. And Nian City is in the backdrop as
well in parts of the illustrations. But the thing
is, I was just thinking, hey, lots of people
going gaga over buying a book rather than for
a labubu. So that's quite a good thing. And Singaporeans
have this strange habit of romanticizing a place
after it's closed. Or, you know, let's say a
restaurant or a bookstore that you like, but
you haven't visited for yongs. And then when
it closes, oh, there's this lamentation that
goes on in social media. why didn't you do something
about it? Why didn't you go there to patronize
the place before it closes? Exactly. And I felt
it was, actually, in fact, I just kept looking,
staring at that, you know, those few panels of,
you know, Kunia, they're running into it, you
know, and he's already inside, right? Taking
his hiding. And I'm thinking, shit, man, this
is so good. Because, yeah, because, hey, we love
to see bookstores being crowded again. I remember
in those years in Borders Borders I love Borders
yeah man me too man I mean you can spend half
a day in Borders you know and the place is always
packed you know it was a wonderful thing but
nobody gives a shit these days and you know just
to see that I know. Just to feel the buzz again.
Yeah, just to see. Even just reading it in a
book, you know, in a comic, and you see people
running there to go, I'm going to go to Kinokuniya,
you've got to buy me that book, you know, blah,
blah, blah. And it was quite marvellous to see,
to be honest with you. It did leave a little
impression on me. The ending leaves room for
interpretation. Is that deliberate? Yes, it was
deliberate, I think. What's your intended takeaway
for readers? The intended takeaway was for readers
to look at themselves and think about, are they
real to themselves? Or what does being real mean
to you? Right, right. What does being real mean
to you? Okay, I felt that perhaps there's going
to be a part two. Well, not in the works. Not
at the moment. I think I've done what I can with
the story. Right. There isn't a part two somewhere
in my head yet. But I suppose if Penguin approaches
me, Penguin's the public publisher. Yeah. If
they approach me and say, oh, I think there's
a possibility for a sequel, then maybe I'll think
about it. Okay, Penguin. Sequel. Sequel. Done.
Okay, done. Or if a film company were to approach
me and say, oh, we're going to pay you this amount
of money, turn this into a... Short film or movie
or feature length film. Yeah, why not? Yeah,
actually, why not? Yeah, I think it could work.
Especially in the Singapore context. It's not
a bad idea. Hey, Netflix. Amazon. Okay, there
you go. The setting of Singapore, particularly
Nian City. You know Kinokuniya is there. We know
that, right? And you use the cranberries. What's
in your head? In your head? you know when I was
reading it and I was actually singing along in
your head in your head I was oh and then lagi
bes Eurasian girl St. Joseph's Church Portuguese
Church the Eurasian Church and also and it was
very beautifully done I gotta tell you and that's
the new one after the renovations right also
in there and This is the kicker, man. The NDP
rally. That PM did not look like Lawrence. No.
Well, this is set in some time in the future.
So it's probably Lawrence's nix -nix successor.
But that guy who was depicted as Singapore's
prime minister, where do you get the... I mean,
you know, the drawing, how he looks. I left that
up to... What was in his head that you don't
know? You didn't ask him. I suppose he will probably
be thinking about some bureaucratic looking person.
Someone who looks, you know, very nicely polished,
but maybe not the real self. Yeah. And it was
so classic because, you know, at these NDP rallies,
right? PMs, well, these are the last few, like
to point out, or even Lawrence did this year.
last year. I pointed out, you know, people industry,
you know, Singaporeans who built businesses or
done some stuff. And in this, in this book, it
follows along the same vein. So you can relate
to that as well. I found it very fun. All these
things were quite fun for me, you know. Moving
on, what was your intention in blending social
commentary, satire and horror? Well, it's a combustible
combination of these three things. And I was
trying to find can I do this? Can I make it all
work, come together? Yeah, yeah. Like you put
verse. How did, how is this a whole, how does
the whole operation happen, man? You write, he
draws. Or does he draw and then you write? Well,
the script usually comes first, the manuscript.
So I would conjure the story, I would type everything
in a screenplay format. Right, right. Of course,
I would bounce certain ideas. Oh, in screenplay
format. Okay, okay. Usually I write it as a screenplay.
So I bounce ideas off him and ask him, do you
think this works? Can I try this? Then he would
tell me if he can draw it. Right. So then I will
write. This manuscript, I think, took me about
three to four months to come together, to bring
it all together. Because I was trying to put
two and two to make five and all these different
elements, like you said, horror, satire, as well
as verse. But eventually it came together pretty
much. So, yeah, because I'm curious because I
asked the same thing about musicians who write.
Which came first, the lyrics? or the Tauge sometimes
it can be both both right yeah but Tauge first
and the lyrics you know so or tune in your head
then they start writing composing first then
they write yeah but for writers I mean you know
I just want to find out what you know how do
you how do like you for example how do you operate
you know so now I know so you do it in a screenplay
format then after that You give it over to the
illustrator. He takes a look and tells you what
can be done, what cannot be done. And you adjust
accordingly. Yeah. Okay. And then sometimes along
the way, I'll make tweaks. For example, at one
point, Aviv was telling me, oh, he didn't really
identify with Zachary Kwan. He felt there was
nothing likable about the character. So he was
asking me, can you try to tweak his character
a little bit so that he's likable in some way?
Right. Then I talk about it. Okay, maybe I try
this. So I did a few tweaks and revisions and
then I send the manuscript back to him. Okay,
okay, okay. But this is, you're going to be discussing
with him over Zoom and over... Over usually WhatsApp.
WhatsApp, okay. Occasionally we'll meet on Zoom.
It's not easy to do either, man. Because he's
based in Malaysia, right? Okay. How do you hope
Be Real will... contribute to conversations about
authenticity, cancel culture, and the role of
art in society. Do you think satire can play
an effective role? I suppose satire, in fact,
if you follow most of my works, I satirize a
lot. I use satire as a vehicle for most of my
expressions. I think satire allows you to laugh
at something or a problem. Then after the laughter
dies down, then you realize, this could be me.
this could be me in that particular situation.
So then you start reflecting. And that's the
whole idea of using satire as a vehicle. Because
if I portray it realistically, people may not
get it that, you know, after the story has ended,
they may not see themselves in it. Okay. What
are you working on next, Felix? Currently, I
have two books that are upcoming. So one is graphic
novel, which I'm working with two Indian illustrators
in India, in Mumbai. It's about the Koro Syndrome.
Oh, K -O -R -O, Koro. Yes. Do you know anything
about that? Oh, yes, I do. I remember when I
was young, actually, my grandmother told me about
this and my dad also talked about it very briefly.
It's about this rumor going around Singapore
that amongst men that dicks are getting smaller.
But my, my, but I remember my dad saying it wasn't
about dicks getting smaller. It's about, about
losing the jewels. Yes. The jewels kind of shrinking
back in. Back in. Yeah. And that, and, and, and
I mean, that thing, you know, jewels going back
in it's quite a reality you know by the way especially
amongst young children from some boys i know
for i know of some that they had got a this is
this standard i think the term is yeah so coral
it's um it's i mean i i think maybe there's some
truth in it There's some truth in it, although
there's also a lot of superstition around it.
A lot of old wives' tale. So this particular
phenomenon happened in 1967. Apparently, one
in five men, there was a rumor going around at
that time that eating the pork of vaccinated
pigs would make your dick disappear. so to speak
so there was a mass hysteria and they sent 500
men into the A &E at the SGH and Van Toxing so
was this no no that's a true account that's a
true account go and google it I'm not making
this up so did they get the links back well they
Try all kinds of ways to tie the dick before
it disappears. Wait, wait, wait. Don't spoil
it. Don't spoil it because I haven't written
it yet. But do me a favor with you, especially
when you're planning it. Come back and tell me
what happened to those five guys. Did they get
their dicks back? No, 500. More than 500 men.
500? Yeah. More than 5 ,000 men went to the A
&E. No, they went to the A &E, but did they really
have the problem? No. Precisely. But were there
anyone that actually had the problem? No. Not
on record. Okay. All right. Shucks. I heard five
guys actually had that. Oh, okay. That's one
of the stories I'm looking on. I can do the voiceover
for you, man, for that one. You wake up one morning.
You pull the sheets down. You look below. It's
gone. It was there last night. I went to bed.
It went to bed with me. I woke up. It wasn't
there. Neither was he. I'm going to lodge a police
report. Missing person. Missing member of my
family. I've lost my brother. Dick is lost. Good
one. I tell you, I do it for you, man. If you
want to make it funny, I do it for you. Well,
so that's one of the graphic novels I'm working
on. The other one is on the anti -opium movement
back in 1905, 1906. Right, right, right. So it's
a little -known fact that Dr. Lim Boon Keng,
you know, Boon Keng Station, Upper Boon Keng
Road, Boon Keng Street. He was involved in the
whole anti -opium movement back in the day together
with Instruct Chuan. Who was the father of Leslie
Charteris. Oh, the writer. The writer. The saint.
The saint. Yeah, wow. So, he was the father.
Did you know that? No. Leslie Charteris was actually
Singaporean. You're shitting me. No. There's
one of those where... The guy who wrote Simon
Templer, the saint. Yeah. He was Eurasian. Holy
shit. His mother was English and then his father
was a medical doctor, a Chinese medical doctor
in Singapore. But why Charteris? He decided to
change his name as a pseudonym. Because he also
felt that if he took on an English name, his
books would sell better. Well, that's true. And
that's true. Again, context, right? At that point
in time, it was true. Yeah, we were getting cancelled.
Yeah. And then sometime in his youth, he decided
to move to England. Right. I think he only came
back to Singapore once. Oh, that's interesting,
man. So, Ying Shui Chuan, his father, and Lim
Boon Kang started this whole movement against
opium. Opium at the time was legal. And in fact,
the colonial government back then, I think half
their revenue came from the sale of opium. Well,
I mean, they were the ones who got most of old
China addicted. Yes. The Anglo -Chinese War,
1839, 1842. The whole Opium War thing. Yeah,
the Opium War. Yeah, Opium War. I mean, that's
how they got control when you just turned these
guys into addicts. Yeah. I remember we did have
that problem, you know, with opium dens and stuff
like that. And I think it went on for quite some
time. Quite some time. I think even in the 50s.
50s. Because my dad was a cop during the 50s.
And he did tell me that there were opium dens,
man. Still. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even with the government
cracking down on open drugs. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It went on for quite a bit. It did. I think when,
of course, I think that's the reason why when
we gained our independence, our government got
so hard about drugs because the government of
the day, our government of the day, you know,
when we turned independent, probably they were,
when they, you know, Prime Minister Lee Kuan
Yew, well, the late, Mr Lee Kuan Yew and of course
his cabinet ministers and the people in his camp
in parliament then probably knew all this they
saw this happening from the time they were young
right during the colonial days and I guess they
also know that this is this is this is an evil
man you just can't let it go on you need to eradicate
yeah yeah and I completely agree with that anyway
Yeah, so great. I'm looking forward to those,
man. Make sure you spill your ink here as well.
Yes, definitely. Didn't sound very right. If
you invite me back. Of course I will. This is
the third time you're actually in studio with
me, man. The first time was with the book I collaborated
with you, remember? oh yeah that's right in the
other podcast letter to my son and then of course
the one with go king sweet you were here with
Sinan and then now this one right be real thank
you so much no at all thank you for being here
man I really hope I didn't spoil things for you
I'd like to end this way Felix put up that, slide
that in, please, Kai. Thank you. There you go,
everyone. Be Real, A Guide to Authenticity. That's
what it's all about. All about, you've heard
what we've got to say. And look at the zombie
thing. Look at it as a horror story. It's going
to be more fun that way, in my opinion. Grab
your copy of Be Real, A Guide to Authenticity
for only 21. Available at Kinokuniya and the
Book Bar. You can also shop online at kinokuniya
.com .sg as well as at amazon .sg. Make sure
you grab a zombie copy today. Thanks for watching,
everybody. The first pilot episode of Ink Spill.
And thank you, Felix, again for being with us.
Continue watching Season 5. We still got a couple
more episodes to go before we take a season break.
This is Chris Hansen. Bye -bye. And cut. The
Chris Henson conversation. No scripts. No filters.
Just real talk. The most authentic conversations
in Singapore.