WEBVTT

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There you go. See the resemblance? Yeah, really.

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The reason why I flashed that one out. Good grief.

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Look at that. I know straight away it's Felix

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Cheung, man. So in another life, probably when

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we are bitten by zombies and then become zombified,

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that is probably how I would look. With eyes

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all turned black and stuff. This is Ari's work,

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right? Yes. Welcome to the pilot episode of Ink

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Spill. The Chris Hansen Conversation have already

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established for some time our tribute to SG Music

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icons dedicated to musicians as well as broadcast

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personalities, bar and club owners of the past,

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present and future. But... We've decided that

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we need to create a new series dedicated to writers

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of literary works of both fiction, non -fiction,

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poetry even, and graphic novels. Except for,

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of course, the self -help kind of books. Not

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interested. We want to promote reading and writing

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as part of Singapore culture because I think

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we're simply not doing enough of those. So if

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you're a writer... with a new publication or

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you are a budding writer with your first publication,

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drop me a DM. You should know how to find me.

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Eh, you know, perhaps we should produce a series

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for painters and artists and call it Hate Job.

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Somehow, I don't think that sounds very right.

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But such a sweetheart he is. Such a nice guy.

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He's probably 80 something. 85. 85. And what

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a gentleman. Still lucid. Very. Sharp as. Sharp

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as tacks. Is that the right thing? The right

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euphemism? Sharp as knife. Sharp as tacks, right?

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T -A -C -K -S. T -A -C -K -S. Tum tacks tacks.

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. See, I must be careful,

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you know. Don't need lah. Have to be careful.

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I got writers with me. Good grief. You're also

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a writer, what? What? Please lah, you. Because

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you write intro. Ah, yeah, please lah. You write

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questions. I do it. So in a sense, you're a journalist.

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Oh, no, I'm not. My sister, if she hears this

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now, she'll probably be laughing her ass off.

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Welcome back to the show, to the Chris Hansen

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Conversation. I hope you've been enjoying Season

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5 so far. My guest on this pilot episode of Ink

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Spill is a best -selling author of 30 books across

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different genres, from poetry to fiction, from

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children's picture books to young adult fiction.

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Two of his graphic novels, Gokeng Sui, a Singaporean

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for all seasons. We've talked about that two

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seasons ago. As a matter of fact, we did do an

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episode on that particular graphic novel. And

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the showgirl and the minister, well, that one

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sounds saucy, were amongst the top five bestsellers

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in Amazon .sj. He has also written three opera

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librettos, and his works have been widely...

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anthologized and nominated for the prestigious

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Frank O 'Connor Award and the Singapore Literature

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Prize. Conferred the Young Artist Award in 2000

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by the National Arts Council, my guest has been

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invited to writers' festivals all over the world,

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such as Edinburgh, Austin, Sydney, and Christchurch.

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He holds a Master's in Creative Writing and is

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currently a university adjunct lecturer. His

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latest graphic novel, Be Real, A Guide to Authenticity

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is his fifth collaboration with Arif Rafan. There

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you go. That's the look. Look at a gorgeous,

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gorgeous front cover, man. And he is, ladies

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and gentlemen, my guest, Felix Cheung. Thank

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you very much for inviting me here again. Yeah,

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you're welcome, Felix. Now, let's take a look

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at Felix Cheung from the graphic novel. There

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you go. See the resemblance? I don't know. Yeah,

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really. The reason why I flashed that one up

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is because good grief, a look that I know straight

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away, it's Felix Cheung, man. So in another live,

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probably... When we are bitten by zombies and

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then become zombified. That is probably how I

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would look. With eyes all turned black and stuff.

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This is Ari's work, right? Yes. So this is how

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he sees how zombies actually look like. I mean,

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we've seen them all, right? We've seen them all.

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28 days later, 35, what, weeks later? 38 weeks

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later? 28 weeks later. There's another sequel

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coming up. 28 years later. Oh gosh, okay. And

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then, of course, the infamous Walking Dead series.

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Walking Dead series. Which I got so tired of

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following after a while. And then the one with

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Brad Pitt in it. What was he? And that one, you

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got them running at breakneck speed. Faster than

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Hussein Bolt. And of course, the Korean version

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is a train from Busan. Kingdom was very good.

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Oh, I love the Kingdom. I love Kingdom. I love

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the Kingdom. Freaking scary, man. But I love

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the story though. And I love how they managed

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to transpose this zombie genre into like a period.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brilliant, huh? Brilliant.

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Yeah, very good idea. Whatever the script writer

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was, hats off, man. Yeah, yeah, I love it, man.

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But you know, I'm kind of curious because the

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title. Okay, first of all, for those of you who

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are watching, be forewarned for spoilers, okay?

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Be forewarned. I'm going to be asking quite a

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number of questions from the author of this graphic

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novel, Be Real, A Guide to Authenticity, and

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go buy one, but spoilers. It's going to start

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right now. I particularly want to find out how

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the hell did you come up with this title? Which

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is really weird because it's a zombie novel.

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Yes. I mean, in broad, it is, right? It's counterintuitive

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because it sounds like a typical title for a

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self -help book. Yeah. Right? Something you'll

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pick off the shelves at Kinokuniya or MPH. Yeah.

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And it is not what you expect a zombie novel

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or graphic novel to sound like. Precisely. So,

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yeah, precisely. So, it's counterintuitive. There's

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no dead or living dead. There was zombie in it.

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But because I tried to build into this satire,

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it's actually a very satirical story, how Singaporeans

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love to read non -fiction, particularly self

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-help books. So, part of the story involves the

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protagonist. Zachary Kwan, trying to write a

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self -help book, which later on became kind of

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hijacked by the publisher to take on another

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persona, a pseudonym. It was a bit complicated

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without giving too many spoilers away. But Felix,

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you know, when you said, when you said, self

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-help book sounds like a title of a self -help

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book you're right but you know what i did which

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you have not heard yet this episode of ours is

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the pilot of my new series called ink spill and

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um there's an introduction for this episode okay

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which you will see once we release this episode

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of course and when i introduce what ink spill

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is all about and since we're talking about this

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i would just say to you that i did mention that

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we are going to be open for writers okay of literary

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works inclusive of poetry even fiction non -fiction

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and graphic novels but please if you're doing

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a self -help book thing please stay away and

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is it I mean in your mind is it true that Singaporeans

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actually go after a lot more of self -help stuff.

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Yeah, definitely. If you check out the National

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Library Board's list of titles that Singaporeans

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love to read, self -help books usually come up

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right to the top. yeah very near the top I mean

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okay we all gotta go see Shrinks I think yes

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well we are pragmatic people by inclination so

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we love to read about how to improve ourselves

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get further ahead you're so politically correct

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Felix Chong you're so always politically correct

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no I'm not this book is politically incorrect

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I know that's why I got a lot of questions to

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ask you yes please fire away another 45 minutes

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we are practical people we are aren't we I don't

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know about that um I particularly like this bit,

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though, of the title, Authenticity. You know

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why? Because I always publicize this. Can we

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have that one? Yeah, you see? You see the last

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bit there? The most authentic conversations in

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Singapore, man. So it really grabbed me, though.

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I like that word. Yeah. Well, it's been kind

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of used, overused. It's become a buzzword. Has

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it? Yeah. Authentic, be real, be yourself, be

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true. It's become such a buzzword that now it's

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become bastardized. And that was one of the reasons

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why I incorporated it in my story as one of the

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themes. Because I felt that when I studied the

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zombie genre and I tried to see how... to make

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it more relevant. Right. Because a zombie book

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or zombie story is never about zombies per se.

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Right. There is always an underlying theme that

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becomes something that is contemporary. Okay.

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That speaks to your target audience. Right. So

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I was looking at how cancer culture and zombism

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have similarities in terms of how they attack

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something. So, cancel culture is not anything

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new. So, it's like a mob thing. It's like a mob

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thing, exactly. Right. More violence. Right.

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It dates back all the way back to Jesus Christ's

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time. Right. When, you know, the Pharisees and

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the Jews. Crucify him. Crucify him. That's more

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violence. Right. And Jesus Christ was cancelled.

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Right. He was crucified, he was cancelled. Same

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thing with Shakespeare as well. If you think

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about Julius Caesar. Yes. And after Caesar was

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assassinated and how fickle the Roman crowd was,

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the whole mob there. Yes. At first they were

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convinced by Brutus. Then after that they got

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even more convinced by Mark Anthony. Yes. And

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fickle as hell. And they flipped. And they flipped.

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And then there you go, cancelled culture. Yes.

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There and then. something that is not new, just

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that we gave it a new name, Cancer Culture, but

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it's really more violence being channeled into

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a particular target. But it's also the flip side

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of idol worship. Because if you look at how girls

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used to go crazy over Elvis Presley, the Beatles,

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it's the same kind of euphoria and energy. that

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gets channeled into a particular group, particular

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target. You also look at how, for example, the

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BTS ARMY, the moment you say anything bad about

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any of these boys, that's it. Same thing about

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football. Yeah, same thing about football, whether...

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Fans is short for fanatics. Yes, exactly. I never

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saw that. That's a nice one. Really? You never

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saw that? Okay, I can be a writer. Yes, definitely.

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You wrote... Aspire to be authentic. And there's

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this quote that came up. Kai, can we flash that

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one? Yeah, thank you. Don't worry about being

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good. Aspire to be authentic. And then it's from

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this guy named Jan Martel. Beatrice and Virgil.

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Sorry, pardon my stupidity or ignorance, man.

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Is that real? Yeah, it's real. Who the hell is

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Jan Martel? Jan Martel was the guy who wrote

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The Life of Pi. It became into a winning movie

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for a boy on the boat with a tiger. So what's

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your take? Don't worry about being good. Aspire

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to be authentic. That's the kind of buzzword

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of our time that everybody has to be real, authentic.

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So my book tries to question the whole idea of

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authenticity. So basically people, you're saying

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that people may not really get the idea of what

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authenticity truly means. Not only that, in putting

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up an authentic self, like when you take a selfie

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without makeup, you flash it on your Instagram,

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you think it's authentic, but it's really putting

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up, it's performative, it's a front. Okay. It's

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just telling the world, this is my face, but

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what is the face behind the face? Okay. Behind

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the facade. So basically, so whatever it is,

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most things are not real then. Yeah, I suppose.

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Yeah, could not be real. But the whole idea of

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real is big question. It's vague, right? It's

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vague because there are many real selves that

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we have. Yeah, different masks. Different masks

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that we put on, persona. Right. So you can't

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really question or talk about. You know, this

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is my real self. How do you come up with this

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idea, man, about, you know, your whole, this

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is basically the skeleton of your entire story,

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right? Yes, exactly. What made you come up with

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that, man? I mean, you really think a lot, man,

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dude. I mean, come on. I mean, what's really

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been going through, like, wow, you know, I wonder

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whether or not people are really being, I mean,

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dude, really? Well, this is one of those things

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that I think about on my long bus journey on

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the RT. So you're always reflecting and stuff

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like that. Thinking about things like that. And

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also because when I proposed to Arif Rafan, this

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was like three years ago. Was there a type of

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or a genre of graphic novel he has not done yet

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that he would like to do? He said, I'd like to

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do a graphic novel on zombies. So I started musing

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about it, exploring the genre and looking at

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how other people have done it. And then I found

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there's a little niche here, a little gap that

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nobody has tried to write about. So I started

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exploring this idea of turning zombie -ism into

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a kind of fanatic mob violence. Right. And that

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was the starting point. Back to the title. Interestingly,

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the whole title was actually contributed by AI.

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CatGBT. Strangely enough. That's not real. Yeah,

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that's not real. But the writing, of course,

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the whole book is real. So I asked Chad GPT to

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generate a series of titles for me that supposedly

00:14:32.870 --> 00:14:36.350
about a self -help book about authenticity. And

00:14:36.350 --> 00:14:38.330
this was one of the ones that he came up with.

00:14:38.690 --> 00:14:41.710
I thought, that's a cool title for a zombie book

00:14:41.710 --> 00:14:45.470
because it's very different from what you normally

00:14:45.470 --> 00:14:48.710
would see. Actually, to be fair, man, as a tool,

00:14:48.870 --> 00:14:52.700
I use a lot of... because I'm giving these people

00:14:52.700 --> 00:14:55.940
free advertising. I don't use ChatGPT. I use

00:14:55.940 --> 00:14:58.940
Gemini, Google's Gemini. I prefer Google's Gemini.

00:14:59.179 --> 00:15:03.080
I mean, I train the guy so well, you know. And

00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:08.559
I generate titles also through, you know, through

00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:12.000
Gemini, through AI. But interestingly, you're

00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:16.100
talking, you're writing, you wrote a book. Let's

00:15:16.100 --> 00:15:18.360
call it a book just for brevity's sake, yeah?

00:15:19.870 --> 00:15:22.889
You wrote a book that's about authenticity, but

00:15:22.889 --> 00:15:25.789
you leaned on artificial intelligence. So there's

00:15:25.789 --> 00:15:28.029
some kind of irony there, isn't it? There's irony.

00:15:28.169 --> 00:15:33.610
There is lots of meta -reference, self -referential

00:15:33.610 --> 00:15:36.730
stuff about the art of writing, the process of

00:15:36.730 --> 00:15:39.590
writing and generating ideas. Right. And it also

00:15:39.590 --> 00:15:43.830
generated that character in your graphic novel,

00:15:43.950 --> 00:15:47.919
the one that's... The Ghostwriter. The Ghostwriter,

00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:51.879
yes. Towards the end, you see actually the process

00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:55.360
that I went through and Averith and I went through.

00:15:55.620 --> 00:15:57.720
So that's why towards the end, you will see a

00:15:57.720 --> 00:15:59.960
few pages of our work in progress. And people

00:15:59.960 --> 00:16:04.580
bought it to someone that's fake. I'm fake? I

00:16:04.580 --> 00:16:07.539
could be fake. I'm not here. No, no, no. I'm

00:16:07.539 --> 00:16:10.960
saying that Ghostwriter. That character, Serafina,

00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:12.960
right? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, and the mob

00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:14.960
went crazy. Oh, the mob, yes, they went crazy.

00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:17.340
That's what I meant, man. Don't get me the wrong

00:16:17.340 --> 00:16:18.799
way. I thought you were shooting arrows at me.

00:16:18.820 --> 00:16:21.440
No, I'm not shooting arrows at you, man. That's

00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:22.960
why I kind of felt that you thought that way.

00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:28.419
No, I actually meant that the mob, the readers

00:16:28.419 --> 00:16:32.879
in that book, in your book, that actually went

00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:37.179
absolutely gaga over her book. right? Which is

00:16:37.179 --> 00:16:41.500
not her. She's generated by AI, right? And they

00:16:41.500 --> 00:16:45.019
went crazy over someone that isn't real. That's

00:16:45.019 --> 00:16:47.240
what I meant. I think that was a very nice plot

00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:50.399
twist. Really? No, that's what I meant, man.

00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:54.399
Oh, geez. Okay. Nothing personal. No, of course,

00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:58.440
I'm not here to be personal. But I realized Arif

00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:00.580
did a great job in the graphics, man. I love

00:17:00.580 --> 00:17:03.870
the graphics. But compared to the last graphic

00:17:03.870 --> 00:17:06.230
novel that we talked about, you were on my show

00:17:06.230 --> 00:17:09.910
with Sinan, and looking at his illustrations

00:17:09.910 --> 00:17:13.430
and how his artwork looks like versus Ari's.

00:17:14.769 --> 00:17:17.369
Why the stark difference? Why did you, sorry,

00:17:17.490 --> 00:17:19.769
yeah, I'm not trying to stir any crap here, but

00:17:19.769 --> 00:17:23.670
the graphics for Go King Sui's book, The Man

00:17:23.670 --> 00:17:26.849
for All Seasons, versus this one, starkly different.

00:17:27.329 --> 00:17:30.490
Did you deliberately choose? to make the graphics

00:17:30.490 --> 00:17:33.049
different for this particular book? I pretty

00:17:33.049 --> 00:17:36.609
much left it to Arif to do the artwork. So I

00:17:36.609 --> 00:17:40.930
let him free reign whatever he saw fit to illustrate.

00:17:41.450 --> 00:17:44.569
It was really up to him, his artistic vision.

00:17:44.869 --> 00:17:48.589
Although we did talk about some of the artwork,

00:17:48.789 --> 00:17:52.039
the style before he started. drawing the whole

00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:54.039
book right so you will show me some sketches

00:17:54.039 --> 00:17:56.480
and say i love this i think i mean i'm not trying

00:17:56.480 --> 00:17:59.559
to stir any any sort of pot here because you

00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:01.980
can go like for me if i go for get new ink done

00:18:01.980 --> 00:18:05.279
right if there's a specific kind of style or

00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:07.779
genre of ink that i want or design i want on

00:18:07.779 --> 00:18:11.740
my body i will go to the artist that does stuff

00:18:11.740 --> 00:18:14.420
that way that specializes in that particular

00:18:14.420 --> 00:18:18.769
kind of art so that's hence my question Was there

00:18:18.769 --> 00:18:22.069
a reason for you wanting to have a different

00:18:22.069 --> 00:18:26.470
form of art for this particular effort? Well,

00:18:26.470 --> 00:18:30.369
with Sinan, I think his speciality and the way

00:18:30.369 --> 00:18:35.349
that he draws is very traditional. And he's good

00:18:35.349 --> 00:18:38.930
with portraying real people. And that's why I

00:18:38.930 --> 00:18:40.789
went to him. And he does a lot of meticulous

00:18:40.789 --> 00:18:44.509
research. So there are specific reasons. Why

00:18:44.509 --> 00:18:46.490
then? There are specific reasons, although I

00:18:46.490 --> 00:18:49.940
feel... Arif can also do the same if I were to

00:18:49.940 --> 00:18:53.200
pass him the project on Gokeng. But the feel

00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:54.539
would be different. The feel would be different.

00:18:54.779 --> 00:18:58.380
Yeah. For him, I think his style is a lot more

00:18:58.380 --> 00:19:05.339
contemporary and less imposed by the panels.

00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:07.299
Because if you look at the way Singhan draws,

00:19:07.579 --> 00:19:11.460
he follows a very strict grid in terms of how

00:19:11.460 --> 00:19:14.619
he formulates the pitch. and designs the page.

00:19:14.859 --> 00:19:17.700
It's like your old Commando comics and stuff.

00:19:17.819 --> 00:19:20.359
Yes. That kind of traditional format. So if I

00:19:20.359 --> 00:19:22.299
were to do something more historical, I would

00:19:22.299 --> 00:19:24.500
go to him. Right. He would be my go -to guy.

00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:26.759
Right. In fact, my next two graphic novels would

00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.420
be done by him. Right. Whereas with Arif, I think

00:19:29.420 --> 00:19:33.420
his feel and his artistic inclination, his bent,

00:19:33.579 --> 00:19:38.500
I think is a lot more contemporary, less... Constrained

00:19:38.500 --> 00:19:42.240
by... More DC. More DC kind of style. DC, not

00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:44.400
really Marvel, but more DC style. More DC, yes.

00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:47.279
Yeah? It seems that way. When I flipped the first

00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:49.200
couple of pages, it does seem that way. Yeah.

00:19:49.259 --> 00:19:52.299
And he likes to break out the panel. Right. And

00:19:52.299 --> 00:19:55.900
he likes to do funky things, you know, with splashes

00:19:55.900 --> 00:20:01.539
and double spreads and so on. The main character

00:20:01.539 --> 00:20:07.130
in your book, Zachary Tang, who is he? Here's

00:20:07.130 --> 00:20:09.309
the sum total of all the writers that you've

00:20:09.309 --> 00:20:13.289
ever met or never read. And a bit of myself,

00:20:13.430 --> 00:20:16.450
of course. Okay. Everything seems to be a bit

00:20:16.450 --> 00:20:19.390
of you. Even for the last book, The Gokeng Sweet

00:20:19.390 --> 00:20:22.650
Man for All Seasons, some of the characters in

00:20:22.650 --> 00:20:24.509
there is based on you, right? I remember that.

00:20:24.569 --> 00:20:27.109
And this one as well. So is this a writer thing?

00:20:27.490 --> 00:20:29.750
When you get into your internal monologue and

00:20:29.750 --> 00:20:32.670
then you start writing stuff, you can't help

00:20:32.670 --> 00:20:35.849
but to just look at yourself? I suppose because

00:20:35.849 --> 00:20:38.750
the starting point is always you are the writer.

00:20:38.890 --> 00:20:44.089
So whatever experience or hangups or bad experiences,

00:20:44.309 --> 00:20:47.150
good experiences, happiness, sadness, whatever

00:20:47.150 --> 00:20:50.130
you've had in your life filters through in your

00:20:50.130 --> 00:20:52.130
writing. Right. Whether you're conscious of it

00:20:52.130 --> 00:20:54.170
or not. Some writers are conscious of it. Some

00:20:54.170 --> 00:20:58.009
writers are not. Okay. So I guess, as they say,

00:20:58.029 --> 00:20:59.869
don't make friends with writers because you may

00:20:59.869 --> 00:21:03.049
end up. being cast as characters in their books.

00:21:03.269 --> 00:21:07.549
Oh, crap. So it's true. Some of the characters

00:21:07.549 --> 00:21:10.650
that you see in my books are aspects of people

00:21:10.650 --> 00:21:14.230
that I know or aspects of myself. More importantly,

00:21:14.269 --> 00:21:17.430
I think for the main character, I need to empathize

00:21:17.430 --> 00:21:20.069
with the character. Right. Otherwise, I can't

00:21:20.069 --> 00:21:24.930
write him in a way that is true, that word again,

00:21:25.009 --> 00:21:29.049
true, authentic. So I need to find an entry point

00:21:29.049 --> 00:21:32.569
into. His personality. Okay, now that you say

00:21:32.569 --> 00:21:36.690
that psyche, part of it has you in it, of course,

00:21:36.690 --> 00:21:39.430
as you just elaborated, right? Now, this is where

00:21:39.430 --> 00:21:42.269
I come to this little cheeky part here. Can we

00:21:42.269 --> 00:21:45.549
flash the first pic of You Know What now, Kai,

00:21:45.609 --> 00:21:52.890
right? This. Man About Town. What about Man About

00:21:52.890 --> 00:21:55.410
Town? That one. There you go. Interestingly,

00:21:55.529 --> 00:21:57.869
now I've got a, because it's too small for me

00:21:57.869 --> 00:22:04.609
to, so I have it on my phone. And, and, it says

00:22:04.609 --> 00:22:09.109
about the urban male, emasculated and nailed.

00:22:11.809 --> 00:22:16.369
None more so than your latest Man About Town.

00:22:17.339 --> 00:22:19.200
You're talking about who? You? No, of course

00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:23.240
not. That's something out of, say, Fight Club.

00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:27.039
Okay. Fight Club? Fight Club, because the whole

00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:29.059
story of Fight Club is about the emasculated

00:22:29.059 --> 00:22:33.559
male trying to get back at, get back his masculinity.

00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:36.660
Right. You know, he's been screwing around the

00:22:36.660 --> 00:22:39.619
scene for quite a while. And you know, something

00:22:39.619 --> 00:22:42.039
I didn't expect, okay, call me a noob, yeah?

00:22:42.140 --> 00:22:45.380
I didn't expect coming from you, man, a satire

00:22:45.380 --> 00:22:50.180
about the existential, what anyway okay anyway

00:22:50.180 --> 00:22:54.799
of a writer who's been around uh with women of

00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:57.740
all shapes and in all i love the graphics i mean

00:22:57.740 --> 00:22:59.740
all shapes i mean i can really see the difference

00:22:59.740 --> 00:23:03.880
here man all shapes and in all positions whom

00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:08.240
whom he rates by the political convictions uh

00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:12.599
and then wow and the length of their orgasms

00:23:15.630 --> 00:23:20.009
And I was like, and I was going, Felix Chung.

00:23:21.529 --> 00:23:24.210
And then it goes on, it goes on to the next,

00:23:24.210 --> 00:23:28.910
the next one, the next page. He says, regardless

00:23:28.910 --> 00:23:32.730
if it's fake or the real thing, he even hooks

00:23:32.730 --> 00:23:36.869
up with a gender fluid person. I mean, that's

00:23:36.869 --> 00:23:39.549
more like modern times now, right? Yeah. Who

00:23:39.549 --> 00:23:41.670
breaks him out of his straight -laced prison.

00:23:43.329 --> 00:23:46.089
And after the carousel of flings, he marries

00:23:46.089 --> 00:23:49.569
a model half his age. Well, again, he plays...

00:23:49.569 --> 00:23:53.329
Quite risky, are you? A bit, a bit. But not too

00:23:53.329 --> 00:23:55.390
much. Not too much to get me banned or cancelled

00:23:55.390 --> 00:23:59.029
or censored. It's kind of... It really caught

00:23:59.029 --> 00:24:01.690
my attention, I can tell you that much. Okay.

00:24:01.950 --> 00:24:05.309
And I was going, hey, Felix Chong, where is this

00:24:05.309 --> 00:24:08.220
going now? And he kept me flipping. Which is

00:24:08.220 --> 00:24:10.980
good. So I've created a page turner. Yeah, you

00:24:10.980 --> 00:24:14.839
did. I gotta admit. So, and it's... How long

00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:17.240
did it take you to finish the book? An hour?

00:24:17.380 --> 00:24:21.519
No, not at all. I had to go through this for

00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:23.559
the purpose of today, right? I had to go through.

00:24:23.660 --> 00:24:26.559
It took me maybe about 15, 20 minutes. Oh, that's

00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:29.940
fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had to go breeze it

00:24:29.940 --> 00:24:32.339
right through. But doesn't mean I didn't really

00:24:32.339 --> 00:24:36.720
think through whatever I read. And you wrote

00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:41.049
this. Predominantly in verse. Again, yes. Like

00:24:41.049 --> 00:24:43.269
the one with Gokeng Sui, I wrote it in verse.

00:24:43.809 --> 00:24:48.390
I think as we talked about before the last time

00:24:48.390 --> 00:24:52.170
we met, I believe in trying to smuggle poetry

00:24:52.170 --> 00:24:54.990
into my writing. So whether it's a graphic novel

00:24:54.990 --> 00:24:57.829
or children's picture book, because I find it

00:24:57.829 --> 00:25:02.960
is my own natural voice as a writer. Okay. don't

00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:05.099
you worry sometimes I know we talked about it

00:25:05.099 --> 00:25:07.660
before but don't you worry sometimes that your

00:25:07.660 --> 00:25:11.359
readers might not be so sophisticated I think

00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:16.359
as as they're reading the story kind of pulls

00:25:16.359 --> 00:25:19.579
them along so they're not so concerned whether

00:25:19.579 --> 00:25:21.700
it rhymes or maybe they don't even realize it

00:25:21.700 --> 00:25:25.259
rhymes so the rhyming part maybe comes like an

00:25:25.259 --> 00:25:28.079
afterthought right so as they're reading the

00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:29.660
story pulls them along what's this character

00:25:29.660 --> 00:25:33.000
doing what's happening oh This is so exciting.

00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:35.220
I want to attend the next speech. Sure. But wouldn't

00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:40.039
you be concerned still that maybe, and I'm being

00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:43.460
an asshole when I say this, 70 % of the public

00:25:43.460 --> 00:25:50.359
space might not really understand. Well, poetry

00:25:50.359 --> 00:25:54.200
is in... Many of the songs that we are familiar

00:25:54.200 --> 00:25:57.039
with, we grew up with, for example, take Bob

00:25:57.039 --> 00:26:00.619
Dylan, The Beatles, even Taylor Swift. So it's

00:26:00.619 --> 00:26:02.980
not anything extraordinary. It's just putting

00:26:02.980 --> 00:26:05.420
it on the page. I'm still standing by my guns

00:26:05.420 --> 00:26:06.900
on that, man, because I know we talked about

00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:09.460
this before. What you just said is so familiar

00:26:09.460 --> 00:26:13.720
to me. And frankly, I just feel it. When I was

00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:17.809
reading this, poor people understand. That was

00:26:17.809 --> 00:26:20.509
my take. I mean, I understand being a student

00:26:20.509 --> 00:26:23.829
of literature, at least in school, you get some

00:26:23.829 --> 00:26:26.349
kind of basic foundation, you know what I mean?

00:26:26.710 --> 00:26:32.569
But it's still something very unusual to me to

00:26:32.569 --> 00:26:37.079
have verse. included in graphic novels. You know,

00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:39.500
just imagine if I'm reading DC and I'm reading

00:26:39.500 --> 00:26:43.619
Marvel and I go, oi. Yeah. But wouldn't that

00:26:43.619 --> 00:26:45.920
make you sit up and take notice if it's written

00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:48.980
in verse? No, of course. Because, like I said,

00:26:49.099 --> 00:26:51.579
it's because I have some basic foundation, you

00:26:51.579 --> 00:26:55.019
know. But for those who don't have it, and nowadays,

00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:57.019
I mean, look, the reason for ink spill, man,

00:26:57.059 --> 00:27:01.099
come on. It's because it is not reading and writing

00:27:01.099 --> 00:27:06.460
is. really departed from culture as far as Singaporeans

00:27:06.460 --> 00:27:09.200
are concerned you know besides literature of

00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:11.440
course it's history also you know it's taken

00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:16.339
a nosedive yes right yeah so I and that's why

00:27:16.339 --> 00:27:18.480
I'm trying to still encourage people pick up

00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:21.220
a book read it you know even if it's going to

00:27:21.220 --> 00:27:23.039
be a graphic novel let's call it a comic yeah

00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:25.950
pick the damn thing up read it But not a self

00:27:25.950 --> 00:27:28.950
-help book. Yeah, yeah, correct. Bloody hell,

00:27:29.029 --> 00:27:33.250
that one you can go on YouTube. Yeah, so that

00:27:33.250 --> 00:27:35.690
is still something that's a concern to me. You

00:27:35.690 --> 00:27:38.309
know, I mean, every time I see something like

00:27:38.309 --> 00:27:39.809
this and I go, you know, this is really fun.

00:27:39.990 --> 00:27:43.829
It is to me, it's fun. I enjoyed it. I did. Yeah,

00:27:43.869 --> 00:27:45.609
though I have some questions to ask you. Yeah,

00:27:45.609 --> 00:27:50.750
please. But some parts of the book that I just

00:27:50.750 --> 00:27:55.329
don't get. Call me stupid. Okay. The cancel culture

00:27:55.329 --> 00:27:57.109
thing you mentioned about the woke movement,

00:27:57.289 --> 00:27:59.970
we talked about that already. But this thing

00:27:59.970 --> 00:28:05.599
about Zachary's wife, the va -va -va -voom. Yes.

00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:09.619
And the part about Channel versus Chanel, I mean,

00:28:09.660 --> 00:28:12.960
God, it really hit home, man. Because it's so

00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:15.240
real here, don't you think? Okay, let me just

00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:16.920
give you guys an idea without giving up too many

00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:19.319
spoilers. You probably don't understand the context.

00:28:19.539 --> 00:28:22.759
Let me give you some context. Some people, I

00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:26.200
mean, inside Felix's new book, there was this

00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:29.890
argument between... the main character and his

00:28:29.890 --> 00:28:32.890
wife. And it was, just simply put, it's over

00:28:32.890 --> 00:28:36.630
the term, the name, the brand name Chanel, which

00:28:36.630 --> 00:28:41.309
she pronounces it as channel. And that is quite

00:28:41.309 --> 00:28:43.670
relatable, don't you think? I mean, there's so

00:28:43.670 --> 00:28:46.329
many things. I mean, come on, man. We've got

00:28:46.329 --> 00:28:57.109
Louis Vuitton. We've got... G and G. Right? And

00:28:57.109 --> 00:29:00.769
we've got people who just cannot pronounce French.

00:29:01.890 --> 00:29:05.009
Sometimes Italian as well. And that's kind of

00:29:05.009 --> 00:29:08.109
real because it's relatable. But I got to say,

00:29:08.130 --> 00:29:10.750
you got to give Arif well done on this because

00:29:10.750 --> 00:29:13.710
she's a babe. She is a babe. Can we please put

00:29:13.710 --> 00:29:19.269
her back up again, Kai? What a babe. And you

00:29:19.269 --> 00:29:21.230
know, and I looked at that picture and I said,

00:29:21.250 --> 00:29:24.759
hang on. before I even discovered it, in the

00:29:24.759 --> 00:29:28.480
next page or so, that's a Eurasian girl. Yes.

00:29:29.420 --> 00:29:32.279
I knew it straight away. Yes. She was meant to

00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:34.440
be a Eurasian girl. I know, but without even,

00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:38.140
you know, him spilling his guts about a Eurasian

00:29:38.140 --> 00:29:41.200
girl, the wife being Eurasian, I looked at her

00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:44.400
picture and I looked at that drawing and I went,

00:29:44.539 --> 00:29:48.460
good grief, that's a Eurasian girl. straight

00:29:48.460 --> 00:29:51.700
away and i knew great stuff man i was going whoa

00:29:51.700 --> 00:29:56.559
hot babe hot babe hot babe man i mean whoa but

00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:02.759
she has fake boobs i don't care hot babe this

00:30:02.759 --> 00:30:04.680
goes back to what we were talking about earlier

00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:06.859
because it's what the whole book i was trying

00:30:06.859 --> 00:30:10.599
to smuggle yeah it's fake i know it's not real

00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:15.180
yes them boobs are fake So there are always aspects

00:30:15.180 --> 00:30:19.200
of the book as the story unfolds in which you

00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:21.839
have to question what is real, what is not. Is

00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:23.720
this real? Is this not? Is this fake? Is this

00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:26.779
not? So it keeps you on your toes as you're reading

00:30:26.779 --> 00:30:31.019
the story. Yeah. And earlier on in the story,

00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:35.700
Zachary was under fire, right? By cancel culture

00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:39.220
by some woke women, right? Apparently feminists.

00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:42.660
Yep. or so -called feminists. Are they real feminists?

00:30:42.700 --> 00:30:46.000
Are they not? Or feminists who misunderstand

00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:49.500
what true feminism means? We don't know, right?

00:30:49.619 --> 00:30:52.099
Again. We're going into cancer culture here.

00:30:52.180 --> 00:30:53.880
Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, look, my

00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:56.579
faulty... No, I don't give a shit. Because, look,

00:30:56.660 --> 00:30:59.380
faulty towers. Yes. They're being cancelled.

00:30:59.619 --> 00:31:02.900
Yes. Little Britain. they're being cancelled

00:31:02.900 --> 00:31:06.460
are you shitting me we got this crazy bunch of

00:31:06.460 --> 00:31:09.680
woke people in the UK going after great stuff

00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:13.640
where people used to be able to laugh at themselves

00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:18.240
where we see and I tell you I deliberately look

00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:21.680
for I deliberately go out there and I look for

00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:26.289
snippets of classic British comedy that completely

00:31:26.289 --> 00:31:31.569
breaks the rules of the rules of what society

00:31:31.569 --> 00:31:36.089
think ought to be avoided today you know and

00:31:36.089 --> 00:31:39.809
I just and I look and I watch these snips snippets

00:31:39.809 --> 00:31:45.269
and I tell you to me right they are awesome still

00:31:45.269 --> 00:31:48.490
funny as hell yeah still funny as hell I think

00:31:48.490 --> 00:31:50.630
we have lost the capacity to laugh at ourselves

00:31:50.630 --> 00:31:55.960
yeah because we become to bubble wrap you know

00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:58.500
all these sensitivities cannot say this cannot

00:31:58.500 --> 00:32:01.059
say that cannot do this cannot do that we become

00:32:01.059 --> 00:32:05.460
to bubble wrap in this whole PC culture politically

00:32:05.460 --> 00:32:09.960
correct culture yeah everything has to be give

00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:14.000
a light touch so as not to offend. So it takes

00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:16.839
the sting away from a lot of the comedy that

00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:20.240
we grew up with. For example, a couple of friends

00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:21.960
and I were chatting about Mind Your Language.

00:32:22.339 --> 00:32:24.880
Yep, yep. That series would be cancelled. Cancelled

00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:27.819
immediately, man. The first episode would also

00:32:27.819 --> 00:32:29.539
end. They'll say it's racist. They'll say this

00:32:29.539 --> 00:32:32.579
and that. But we grew up with it. Did we become

00:32:32.579 --> 00:32:36.349
racist? No. I don't think we're racist. As a

00:32:36.349 --> 00:32:38.710
matter of fact, when I think about this in Singapore's

00:32:38.710 --> 00:32:41.849
context, when I sit at the coffee shop, who are

00:32:41.849 --> 00:32:45.069
the friends around me? We've got Chindians, we've

00:32:45.069 --> 00:32:47.930
got Indians, we've got Malays, we've got Malaysian,

00:32:48.410 --> 00:32:51.450
we've got Hainanese, we've got Hokkien, we've

00:32:51.450 --> 00:32:54.450
got Cantonese. We're all seated together. We

00:32:54.450 --> 00:32:59.480
have Eurasian mix. We all sit around and we're

00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:01.740
ribbing each other. But you know what? I mean,

00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:03.920
my generation, at least, and the ones before

00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:07.079
mine, we're okay. Yeah, we're okay with it. Yeah,

00:33:07.099 --> 00:33:09.599
we are not. I mean, and we don't take things

00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:13.700
too seriously. We don't take ourselves so seriously.

00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:16.220
And I think that's a problem today. People don't

00:33:16.220 --> 00:33:18.279
understand this. Look, come on, that's a fine

00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:20.039
line here. I mean, it's a fine line, no doubt.

00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:23.019
But draw that line. You don't need to really.

00:33:23.710 --> 00:33:26.630
If we talk about racism, it's about your, when

00:33:26.630 --> 00:33:30.009
we look at society, to me, it's like, do you

00:33:30.009 --> 00:33:32.529
have tolerance when you have a Malay wedding

00:33:32.529 --> 00:33:34.730
dance that's in Kampung playing and you go and

00:33:34.730 --> 00:33:38.410
complain? Lion dance coming out playing and then

00:33:38.410 --> 00:33:42.769
some other lot go and complain. Why? We used

00:33:42.769 --> 00:33:45.230
to, instead, what we should be doing is to go

00:33:45.230 --> 00:33:47.450
out there and congratulate people. You know,

00:33:47.470 --> 00:33:50.049
or send blessings and wishes, right? We never

00:33:50.049 --> 00:33:52.410
used to mind these things. Why are we minding

00:33:52.410 --> 00:33:56.700
them now? To me, that is what you should be more

00:33:56.700 --> 00:34:00.000
concerned about. It is not about, oh, this program

00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:05.779
is too racist. I don't see why we should draw

00:34:05.779 --> 00:34:08.159
these sort of parameters. It's just not right.

00:34:08.340 --> 00:34:11.199
And I'm also against this whole movement to backtrack

00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:14.340
into the past, into our cultural landmarks. Yeah,

00:34:14.340 --> 00:34:17.659
yeah. And then start putting disclaimers on many

00:34:17.659 --> 00:34:20.780
of these films, like, say, Gone with the Wind.

00:34:22.590 --> 00:34:25.610
put all these disclaimers on breakfast at Tiffany's.

00:34:25.730 --> 00:34:29.650
Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were such cultural landmarks

00:34:29.650 --> 00:34:31.449
of our time. Yeah, and you can't change history.

00:34:31.530 --> 00:34:32.429
This is what it was. You can't change history.

00:34:32.550 --> 00:34:34.590
You can't change the context. We have to learn

00:34:34.590 --> 00:34:36.590
from it. Yeah, we don't erase them. Don't erase

00:34:36.590 --> 00:34:39.170
them. Yeah, it's as good as, okay, now that we

00:34:39.170 --> 00:34:44.070
are, on this topic though, if we look at ancient

00:34:44.070 --> 00:34:47.309
history even, if we look at, okay, this is going

00:34:47.309 --> 00:34:50.269
to be a bit crazy. When we look at a pharaoh,

00:34:50.409 --> 00:34:53.550
Akhenaten, Okay, for those of you who don't know,

00:34:53.710 --> 00:34:57.250
Pharaoh and his wife was Nefertiti. These are

00:34:57.250 --> 00:35:00.349
parents of the famous King Tut, Tutankhamun.

00:35:02.130 --> 00:35:04.769
He wanted to start at that time because, you

00:35:04.769 --> 00:35:09.610
know, they are a polyistic race, you know, religiously,

00:35:09.610 --> 00:35:13.469
right? Multiple gods. He came and he said, no,

00:35:13.469 --> 00:35:14.889
there can only be one god, and it's the sun god

00:35:14.889 --> 00:35:19.190
Ra. And he created a religious revolution amongst

00:35:19.190 --> 00:35:23.320
the ancient Egyptians of his time. And of course

00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:25.900
he angered a lot of people, right? We don't know

00:35:25.900 --> 00:35:28.980
whether he was murdered. I suppose he was. And

00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:32.119
then of course they put a young 12 -year -old

00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:36.300
boy to be the next pharaoh. But they chipped

00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:41.579
off Akhenaten's name and his wife Nefertiti's

00:35:41.579 --> 00:35:44.780
name off as many hieroglyphs as they could to

00:35:44.780 --> 00:35:46.860
erase them from history. Have they been erased?

00:35:47.079 --> 00:35:51.590
No. And we lament. about, hey, they shouldn't

00:35:51.590 --> 00:35:53.389
have done that, you know? I mean, it happened,

00:35:53.530 --> 00:35:56.269
right? It's when, like, a couple of years and

00:35:56.269 --> 00:35:58.750
years and years ago, I don't know how long ago,

00:35:58.829 --> 00:36:01.010
probably a couple of decades ago, when the Japanese

00:36:01.010 --> 00:36:05.130
government tried to erase the Second War and

00:36:05.130 --> 00:36:07.170
their involvement from their school history books.

00:36:07.829 --> 00:36:10.769
And the world clamored against that. Is that

00:36:10.769 --> 00:36:13.550
right or wrong? I think, come on, it happened.

00:36:13.690 --> 00:36:17.349
You can't change what you did. You can't do that.

00:36:17.389 --> 00:36:19.489
We can't just erase things so, you know, conveniently,

00:36:19.690 --> 00:36:23.050
right? Same thing here. You've got a little Britain.

00:36:23.210 --> 00:36:25.550
We enjoyed it then. You don't like, may not like

00:36:25.550 --> 00:36:27.530
it now. Don't force it down someone else, everyone

00:36:27.530 --> 00:36:30.550
else's throat. That's not right. So that brings

00:36:30.550 --> 00:36:33.090
us back to the whole idea of more violence now,

00:36:33.190 --> 00:36:36.769
but it's been, it's now being perpetuated a lot

00:36:36.769 --> 00:36:39.369
more because of social media. It has a lot more

00:36:39.369 --> 00:36:44.929
power to galvanize people, but also to, to, for

00:36:44.929 --> 00:36:47.590
them to jump on the bandwagon because then it

00:36:47.590 --> 00:36:50.510
becomes a greater force when you have people

00:36:50.510 --> 00:36:54.309
from the US, from UK, Australia, Singapore coming

00:36:54.309 --> 00:36:57.809
together and they think they are powerful with

00:36:57.809 --> 00:37:00.710
one voice trying to cancel something or tell

00:37:00.710 --> 00:37:04.389
you, okay, this is not right. So I think part

00:37:04.389 --> 00:37:08.059
of the book kind of... place on this particular

00:37:08.059 --> 00:37:10.500
theme. So you have an opinion about this then?

00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:12.760
Yeah, I have a very strong opinion about this.

00:37:12.940 --> 00:37:14.519
Yeah, you really don't like this wokeism and

00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:16.599
cancel culture shit, right? Well, I think it's

00:37:16.599 --> 00:37:19.420
taken to extremes already. Yeah, too many Karens

00:37:19.420 --> 00:37:22.699
out there. Too many Karens. Sorry, the male part,

00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:27.760
the male version of it is called Kevin. Sorry,

00:37:27.820 --> 00:37:31.619
Kevins. Or the Ken. I don't know. I came up with

00:37:31.619 --> 00:37:35.059
Kevin. Whoever the hell came up with Karen, I

00:37:35.059 --> 00:37:38.940
don't know, man. I mean, but the zombie element,

00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:43.539
man, that collective hive thing, that hive mind

00:37:43.539 --> 00:37:45.860
thing, you know, of course, we know now, of course,

00:37:45.940 --> 00:37:48.139
what you meant, you know, what it portrays would

00:37:48.139 --> 00:37:51.820
be against wokeism, cancel culture, and it's

00:37:51.820 --> 00:37:53.320
all a bunch of people coming together and getting

00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:58.280
ugly as shit, right? But does it also represent

00:37:58.280 --> 00:38:01.739
rage? Yeah, it's rage. Because of the violence.

00:38:02.059 --> 00:38:05.960
Yes. So it's rage being channeled towards a particular

00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:10.739
end goal, which is targeting a particular person,

00:38:10.820 --> 00:38:17.059
particular organization. So it's, yeah, so it's

00:38:17.059 --> 00:38:20.679
like, very much like the way a zombie comes at

00:38:20.679 --> 00:38:23.760
you, you know, like World War Z, at the speed

00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:30.190
of sound. Okay. So it's that, so, wouldn't wouldn't

00:38:30.190 --> 00:38:34.809
it I mean to me the way I see it is maybe just

00:38:34.809 --> 00:38:39.829
maybe these days people are just more filled

00:38:39.829 --> 00:38:43.349
with rage than before it could be it could be

00:38:43.349 --> 00:38:47.900
rage that Somehow, scrolling through your social

00:38:47.900 --> 00:38:52.480
media, you kind of feel it. But it's an imagined

00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:55.800
rage. It's not really real. It's conjured. It's

00:38:55.800 --> 00:38:58.039
conjured because you look at somebody else's

00:38:58.039 --> 00:39:01.699
post, then you get stirred or triggered because

00:39:01.699 --> 00:39:05.099
someone said something. But a lot of times, most

00:39:05.099 --> 00:39:06.659
of these people who are triggered, they don't

00:39:06.659 --> 00:39:10.320
read. the subtext and nuance. They read the headlines

00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:13.260
and then they get, oh my God, can you believe

00:39:13.260 --> 00:39:17.920
this? So they fall into victims of clickbait

00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:23.039
posts. So they don't go in depth into understanding

00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:25.739
something. It is very superficial. It is at that

00:39:25.739 --> 00:39:30.800
level of the headline or the tagline or the hashtag.

00:39:31.289 --> 00:39:34.630
And that becomes a way for them to become keyboard

00:39:34.630 --> 00:39:36.769
warriors. So people don't really find out the

00:39:36.769 --> 00:39:39.190
context behind things. No context. Because they

00:39:39.190 --> 00:39:41.309
don't even bother to read the content. Yeah.

00:39:41.590 --> 00:39:46.489
Right? No content, no context. So read. Don't

00:39:46.489 --> 00:39:49.130
just read for fun and scroll down. This TikTok

00:39:49.130 --> 00:39:51.909
thing is killing everyone. It's true. It's true.

00:39:52.469 --> 00:39:57.230
I tell you, I really don't encourage this. short

00:39:57.230 --> 00:39:59.469
video kind of thing. Because, come on, I have

00:39:59.469 --> 00:40:01.789
no time. I got no time. I got no time. It's mindless.

00:40:02.050 --> 00:40:04.309
Yeah, mindless. That's what you become, zombie.

00:40:04.369 --> 00:40:06.650
Yes, exactly. So I always say, people on the

00:40:06.650 --> 00:40:08.670
phone, when they're having dinner on their phones,

00:40:08.769 --> 00:40:12.670
zombie apocalypse. It's exactly what I understand

00:40:12.670 --> 00:40:15.090
from what you're trying to, what you've achieved

00:40:15.090 --> 00:40:18.389
here. But I want to discover this bit because

00:40:18.389 --> 00:40:21.469
it confused me a bit. The main character, Zachary,

00:40:21.590 --> 00:40:28.719
he became I don't know how he became patient

00:40:28.719 --> 00:40:31.940
zero, so to speak, yeah? I don't want to let

00:40:31.940 --> 00:40:35.099
go too many spoilers. He got bit by this hot

00:40:35.099 --> 00:40:39.400
ex -girlfriend of his. Who's a reporter? Yeah,

00:40:39.420 --> 00:40:42.239
who's a reporter, right? Was she, I didn't get

00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:44.500
that bit, you know? Did she really bite him?

00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:48.639
Well, it was initially a love bite, but then

00:40:48.639 --> 00:40:51.530
later on, she betrayed him. Yeah, I know that.

00:40:51.630 --> 00:40:54.369
No, no, no. Let's stick to that bite thing. Okay.

00:40:54.590 --> 00:40:58.769
The bite thing, the love bite? Fuck, love bite.

00:40:58.829 --> 00:41:02.090
It didn't seem like a love bite to me, man. It

00:41:02.090 --> 00:41:06.190
didn't look like, I was, honestly, really, I

00:41:06.190 --> 00:41:09.389
was looking at that picture, that graphic. I

00:41:09.389 --> 00:41:11.929
said, she bit the guy. It didn't seem like a

00:41:11.929 --> 00:41:16.050
love bite because of her eyes. The way her eyes

00:41:16.050 --> 00:41:18.750
were going, it looked, come on, she looked possessed.

00:41:19.110 --> 00:41:21.460
She looked possessed. And to me, I thought she

00:41:21.460 --> 00:41:24.539
bit him. So was that a bite or a love bite? Confirm

00:41:24.539 --> 00:41:26.119
for me, please. She's driving me up the wall.

00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:29.860
It's both. I mean, why can't a bite be a love

00:41:29.860 --> 00:41:32.119
bite and vice versa? Yeah, but she didn't pass

00:41:32.119 --> 00:41:34.699
him that. She didn't pass him the virus. Yeah.

00:41:34.960 --> 00:41:38.539
So the way I constructed the story, the premise

00:41:38.539 --> 00:41:43.440
was that she became, he became, Zachary Kwan

00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:47.400
became patient zero because of this whole internal

00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:51.809
rage that he. head boiling in him. His wife died

00:41:51.809 --> 00:41:55.670
because of an overdose of drugs. Ex -girlfriend,

00:41:55.849 --> 00:42:00.349
you know, secretly recorded their twist at her

00:42:00.349 --> 00:42:03.150
funeral and then later on published an article

00:42:03.150 --> 00:42:06.570
about him not caring for her, letting her in.

00:42:06.730 --> 00:42:08.469
Yeah, screwed him over basically. Screwed him

00:42:08.469 --> 00:42:12.670
over and so he was filled with rage and he ran

00:42:12.670 --> 00:42:16.150
out, did something to a dog in an alley and I

00:42:16.150 --> 00:42:18.579
suppose the dog kind of transferred something

00:42:18.579 --> 00:42:22.019
some viral thing into him okay yeah yeah so that

00:42:22.019 --> 00:42:24.519
I that's where I got confused because I know

00:42:24.519 --> 00:42:29.679
he he went to sink his teeth into a dog right

00:42:29.679 --> 00:42:33.440
and that's where I that's where he got it but

00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:37.099
what about that girl sinking her teeth into his

00:42:37.099 --> 00:42:39.940
neck so that's where I got confused so she gave

00:42:39.940 --> 00:42:41.840
him the impetus for the whole thing about be

00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:45.480
real because before she bit him She said something

00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:49.440
like, be real, be yourself, be true. Yeah, yeah,

00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:51.079
that's what she said, yeah. Write about what

00:42:51.079 --> 00:42:56.900
you know. Yeah. So I think that the biting and

00:42:56.900 --> 00:43:00.039
the message that she gave him kind of became...

00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:02.059
It became a buzzword for him. A buzz, yes. Yeah,

00:43:02.059 --> 00:43:04.920
a kind of a keyword. That's why everywhere he

00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:07.000
went, he was going, be real, be real, be real.

00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:13.320
Anyway, that girl, hot babe too. I can tell that

00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:17.800
she's Chinese. Okay. So many spoilers. Yeah,

00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:20.340
yeah, yeah. But yeah, sorry about that, man.

00:43:21.079 --> 00:43:23.059
But at least you get some context, right? When

00:43:23.059 --> 00:43:27.360
you go through now. When you do buy the book

00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:30.320
and have a look through. And what's with the

00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:33.420
her, her, her and tap, tap, tap? That one I got

00:43:33.420 --> 00:43:36.239
lost, man. I'm sorry. Tap, tap, tap, I suppose

00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:37.739
is the sound effect of him running. Yeah, yeah,

00:43:37.739 --> 00:43:40.179
yeah. That one I get. But the her, her, her.

00:43:40.500 --> 00:43:46.440
I think it's her. Oh, okay. Chris, you're such

00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:50.019
a dingbat. Okay. Because it was almost everywhere,

00:43:50.119 --> 00:43:53.099
man. Yeah, is it zombie? Yeah, I know, I know,

00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:54.739
I know, I know. It's just that I was really trying.

00:43:54.860 --> 00:43:56.860
It didn't really, I couldn't, I'm sorry, but

00:43:56.860 --> 00:43:59.380
I couldn't relate to what it was trying, the

00:43:59.380 --> 00:44:02.079
audio that it was trying to describe. I couldn't

00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:07.010
relate to that. Sorry, man. And Kinokuniya. Yes.

00:44:07.170 --> 00:44:10.670
Everyone started going to Kinokuniya. It's about

00:44:10.670 --> 00:44:14.989
to close or get smaller. Yes. Quite appropriate

00:44:14.989 --> 00:44:18.309
now. Did you know that they were downsizing?

00:44:18.369 --> 00:44:23.030
No. You didn't? I didn't. So it's just coincidental

00:44:23.030 --> 00:44:26.190
that just at the point when this book is published

00:44:26.190 --> 00:44:29.219
and out in the market. Kinokuniya announces there's

00:44:29.219 --> 00:44:33.960
downsizing. Yeah, you know, for people who love

00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:36.860
books, who love buying and reading books, right?

00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:40.300
I think Kinokuniya is the last bastion of bookstores.

00:44:41.460 --> 00:44:44.179
And then now they're downsizing. Then I saw this

00:44:44.179 --> 00:44:47.289
and I went... Bloody hell. That's pretty smart,

00:44:47.449 --> 00:44:50.449
man. I figured that you were trying to, you know,

00:44:50.449 --> 00:44:52.429
tell people, look, all of a sudden, people want

00:44:52.429 --> 00:44:54.829
to read books. Yes. And they're all converging

00:44:54.829 --> 00:44:56.530
on Kinokuniya. Just for context, the beginning

00:44:56.530 --> 00:44:58.489
of the story, the prologue, and then the end

00:44:58.489 --> 00:45:02.530
of the story, both set in Kinokuniya. Yeah. The

00:45:02.530 --> 00:45:04.650
one at Nian City. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so wonderful

00:45:04.650 --> 00:45:06.949
because it really looks like Kinokuniya from

00:45:06.949 --> 00:45:09.570
Nian City. And Nian City is in the backdrop as

00:45:09.570 --> 00:45:13.570
well in parts of the illustrations. But the thing

00:45:13.570 --> 00:45:16.739
is, I was just thinking, hey, lots of people

00:45:16.739 --> 00:45:18.960
going gaga over buying a book rather than for

00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:23.079
a labubu. So that's quite a good thing. And Singaporeans

00:45:23.079 --> 00:45:27.059
have this strange habit of romanticizing a place

00:45:27.059 --> 00:45:30.760
after it's closed. Or, you know, let's say a

00:45:30.760 --> 00:45:33.800
restaurant or a bookstore that you like, but

00:45:33.800 --> 00:45:35.800
you haven't visited for yongs. And then when

00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:38.539
it closes, oh, there's this lamentation that

00:45:38.539 --> 00:45:42.239
goes on in social media. why didn't you do something

00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:44.739
about it? Why didn't you go there to patronize

00:45:44.739 --> 00:45:49.880
the place before it closes? Exactly. And I felt

00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:51.860
it was, actually, in fact, I just kept looking,

00:45:51.940 --> 00:45:54.780
staring at that, you know, those few panels of,

00:45:54.820 --> 00:45:57.300
you know, Kunia, they're running into it, you

00:45:57.300 --> 00:45:59.460
know, and he's already inside, right? Taking

00:45:59.460 --> 00:46:02.320
his hiding. And I'm thinking, shit, man, this

00:46:02.320 --> 00:46:08.159
is so good. Because, yeah, because, hey, we love

00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:11.239
to see bookstores being crowded again. I remember

00:46:11.239 --> 00:46:13.820
in those years in Borders Borders I love Borders

00:46:13.820 --> 00:46:15.840
yeah man me too man I mean you can spend half

00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:19.260
a day in Borders you know and the place is always

00:46:19.260 --> 00:46:22.639
packed you know it was a wonderful thing but

00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:24.539
nobody gives a shit these days and you know just

00:46:24.539 --> 00:46:28.000
to see that I know. Just to feel the buzz again.

00:46:28.059 --> 00:46:33.099
Yeah, just to see. Even just reading it in a

00:46:33.099 --> 00:46:35.780
book, you know, in a comic, and you see people

00:46:35.780 --> 00:46:38.300
running there to go, I'm going to go to Kinokuniya,

00:46:38.380 --> 00:46:40.239
you've got to buy me that book, you know, blah,

00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:42.880
blah, blah. And it was quite marvellous to see,

00:46:42.920 --> 00:46:44.760
to be honest with you. It did leave a little

00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:49.159
impression on me. The ending leaves room for

00:46:49.159 --> 00:46:52.230
interpretation. Is that deliberate? Yes, it was

00:46:52.230 --> 00:46:54.750
deliberate, I think. What's your intended takeaway

00:46:54.750 --> 00:46:58.130
for readers? The intended takeaway was for readers

00:46:58.130 --> 00:47:01.510
to look at themselves and think about, are they

00:47:01.510 --> 00:47:05.050
real to themselves? Or what does being real mean

00:47:05.050 --> 00:47:10.150
to you? Right, right. What does being real mean

00:47:10.150 --> 00:47:13.530
to you? Okay, I felt that perhaps there's going

00:47:13.530 --> 00:47:17.510
to be a part two. Well, not in the works. Not

00:47:17.510 --> 00:47:22.280
at the moment. I think I've done what I can with

00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:26.860
the story. Right. There isn't a part two somewhere

00:47:26.860 --> 00:47:31.280
in my head yet. But I suppose if Penguin approaches

00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:34.980
me, Penguin's the public publisher. Yeah. If

00:47:34.980 --> 00:47:36.460
they approach me and say, oh, I think there's

00:47:36.460 --> 00:47:39.139
a possibility for a sequel, then maybe I'll think

00:47:39.139 --> 00:47:42.340
about it. Okay, Penguin. Sequel. Sequel. Done.

00:47:42.500 --> 00:47:45.800
Okay, done. Or if a film company were to approach

00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:47.579
me and say, oh, we're going to pay you this amount

00:47:47.579 --> 00:47:51.489
of money, turn this into a... Short film or movie

00:47:51.489 --> 00:47:53.429
or feature length film. Yeah, why not? Yeah,

00:47:53.429 --> 00:47:55.550
actually, why not? Yeah, I think it could work.

00:47:56.369 --> 00:47:59.130
Especially in the Singapore context. It's not

00:47:59.130 --> 00:48:03.309
a bad idea. Hey, Netflix. Amazon. Okay, there

00:48:03.309 --> 00:48:05.869
you go. The setting of Singapore, particularly

00:48:05.869 --> 00:48:09.469
Nian City. You know Kinokuniya is there. We know

00:48:09.469 --> 00:48:16.190
that, right? And you use the cranberries. What's

00:48:16.190 --> 00:48:19.960
in your head? In your head? you know when I was

00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:24.440
reading it and I was actually singing along in

00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:31.400
your head in your head I was oh and then lagi

00:48:31.400 --> 00:48:36.300
bes Eurasian girl St. Joseph's Church Portuguese

00:48:36.300 --> 00:48:40.940
Church the Eurasian Church and also and it was

00:48:40.940 --> 00:48:43.260
very beautifully done I gotta tell you and that's

00:48:43.260 --> 00:48:45.500
the new one after the renovations right also

00:48:45.500 --> 00:48:49.500
in there and This is the kicker, man. The NDP

00:48:49.500 --> 00:48:55.300
rally. That PM did not look like Lawrence. No.

00:48:55.619 --> 00:48:58.500
Well, this is set in some time in the future.

00:48:58.659 --> 00:49:03.500
So it's probably Lawrence's nix -nix successor.

00:49:04.420 --> 00:49:09.960
But that guy who was depicted as Singapore's

00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:14.070
prime minister, where do you get the... I mean,

00:49:14.150 --> 00:49:17.030
you know, the drawing, how he looks. I left that

00:49:17.030 --> 00:49:19.110
up to... What was in his head that you don't

00:49:19.110 --> 00:49:21.670
know? You didn't ask him. I suppose he will probably

00:49:21.670 --> 00:49:25.150
be thinking about some bureaucratic looking person.

00:49:26.349 --> 00:49:29.050
Someone who looks, you know, very nicely polished,

00:49:29.110 --> 00:49:32.190
but maybe not the real self. Yeah. And it was

00:49:32.190 --> 00:49:34.590
so classic because, you know, at these NDP rallies,

00:49:34.849 --> 00:49:39.610
right? PMs, well, these are the last few, like

00:49:39.610 --> 00:49:42.650
to point out, or even Lawrence did this year.

00:49:43.259 --> 00:49:46.059
last year. I pointed out, you know, people industry,

00:49:46.519 --> 00:49:48.920
you know, Singaporeans who built businesses or

00:49:48.920 --> 00:49:52.280
done some stuff. And in this, in this book, it

00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:54.400
follows along the same vein. So you can relate

00:49:54.400 --> 00:49:57.800
to that as well. I found it very fun. All these

00:49:57.800 --> 00:49:59.940
things were quite fun for me, you know. Moving

00:49:59.940 --> 00:50:03.780
on, what was your intention in blending social

00:50:03.780 --> 00:50:07.960
commentary, satire and horror? Well, it's a combustible

00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:11.239
combination of these three things. And I was

00:50:11.239 --> 00:50:14.849
trying to find can I do this? Can I make it all

00:50:14.849 --> 00:50:16.989
work, come together? Yeah, yeah. Like you put

00:50:16.989 --> 00:50:20.130
verse. How did, how is this a whole, how does

00:50:20.130 --> 00:50:23.510
the whole operation happen, man? You write, he

00:50:23.510 --> 00:50:28.230
draws. Or does he draw and then you write? Well,

00:50:28.289 --> 00:50:30.269
the script usually comes first, the manuscript.

00:50:30.829 --> 00:50:33.510
So I would conjure the story, I would type everything

00:50:33.510 --> 00:50:37.090
in a screenplay format. Right, right. Of course,

00:50:37.090 --> 00:50:37.929
I would bounce certain ideas. Oh, in screenplay

00:50:37.929 --> 00:50:40.409
format. Okay, okay. Usually I write it as a screenplay.

00:50:40.909 --> 00:50:43.610
So I bounce ideas off him and ask him, do you

00:50:43.610 --> 00:50:46.230
think this works? Can I try this? Then he would

00:50:46.230 --> 00:50:50.670
tell me if he can draw it. Right. So then I will

00:50:50.670 --> 00:50:54.530
write. This manuscript, I think, took me about

00:50:54.530 --> 00:50:57.630
three to four months to come together, to bring

00:50:57.630 --> 00:50:59.949
it all together. Because I was trying to put

00:50:59.949 --> 00:51:03.730
two and two to make five and all these different

00:51:03.730 --> 00:51:06.829
elements, like you said, horror, satire, as well

00:51:06.829 --> 00:51:10.809
as verse. But eventually it came together pretty

00:51:10.809 --> 00:51:13.949
much. So, yeah, because I'm curious because I

00:51:13.949 --> 00:51:15.630
asked the same thing about musicians who write.

00:51:16.369 --> 00:51:20.039
Which came first, the lyrics? or the Tauge sometimes

00:51:20.039 --> 00:51:24.099
it can be both both right yeah but Tauge first

00:51:24.099 --> 00:51:26.920
and the lyrics you know so or tune in your head

00:51:26.920 --> 00:51:29.659
then they start writing composing first then

00:51:29.659 --> 00:51:33.480
they write yeah but for writers I mean you know

00:51:33.480 --> 00:51:35.519
I just want to find out what you know how do

00:51:35.519 --> 00:51:38.059
you how do like you for example how do you operate

00:51:38.059 --> 00:51:42.820
you know so now I know so you do it in a screenplay

00:51:42.820 --> 00:51:45.969
format then after that You give it over to the

00:51:45.969 --> 00:51:47.789
illustrator. He takes a look and tells you what

00:51:47.789 --> 00:51:49.690
can be done, what cannot be done. And you adjust

00:51:49.690 --> 00:51:52.730
accordingly. Yeah. Okay. And then sometimes along

00:51:52.730 --> 00:51:55.750
the way, I'll make tweaks. For example, at one

00:51:55.750 --> 00:51:58.650
point, Aviv was telling me, oh, he didn't really

00:51:58.650 --> 00:52:01.730
identify with Zachary Kwan. He felt there was

00:52:01.730 --> 00:52:05.130
nothing likable about the character. So he was

00:52:05.130 --> 00:52:09.590
asking me, can you try to tweak his character

00:52:09.590 --> 00:52:12.210
a little bit so that he's likable in some way?

00:52:12.469 --> 00:52:16.150
Right. Then I talk about it. Okay, maybe I try

00:52:16.150 --> 00:52:20.289
this. So I did a few tweaks and revisions and

00:52:20.289 --> 00:52:22.690
then I send the manuscript back to him. Okay,

00:52:22.730 --> 00:52:26.250
okay, okay. But this is, you're going to be discussing

00:52:26.250 --> 00:52:30.150
with him over Zoom and over... Over usually WhatsApp.

00:52:30.429 --> 00:52:33.869
WhatsApp, okay. Occasionally we'll meet on Zoom.

00:52:33.989 --> 00:52:35.809
It's not easy to do either, man. Because he's

00:52:35.809 --> 00:52:39.309
based in Malaysia, right? Okay. How do you hope

00:52:39.309 --> 00:52:43.389
Be Real will... contribute to conversations about

00:52:43.389 --> 00:52:45.869
authenticity, cancel culture, and the role of

00:52:45.869 --> 00:52:49.250
art in society. Do you think satire can play

00:52:49.250 --> 00:52:51.969
an effective role? I suppose satire, in fact,

00:52:51.969 --> 00:52:55.369
if you follow most of my works, I satirize a

00:52:55.369 --> 00:52:58.289
lot. I use satire as a vehicle for most of my

00:52:58.289 --> 00:53:01.489
expressions. I think satire allows you to laugh

00:53:01.489 --> 00:53:05.449
at something or a problem. Then after the laughter

00:53:05.449 --> 00:53:08.429
dies down, then you realize, this could be me.

00:53:09.289 --> 00:53:12.170
this could be me in that particular situation.

00:53:12.550 --> 00:53:15.329
So then you start reflecting. And that's the

00:53:15.329 --> 00:53:19.750
whole idea of using satire as a vehicle. Because

00:53:19.750 --> 00:53:22.469
if I portray it realistically, people may not

00:53:22.469 --> 00:53:25.769
get it that, you know, after the story has ended,

00:53:25.969 --> 00:53:30.670
they may not see themselves in it. Okay. What

00:53:30.670 --> 00:53:33.809
are you working on next, Felix? Currently, I

00:53:33.809 --> 00:53:38.789
have two books that are upcoming. So one is graphic

00:53:38.789 --> 00:53:44.590
novel, which I'm working with two Indian illustrators

00:53:44.590 --> 00:53:48.050
in India, in Mumbai. It's about the Koro Syndrome.

00:53:48.489 --> 00:53:52.130
Oh, K -O -R -O, Koro. Yes. Do you know anything

00:53:52.130 --> 00:53:58.170
about that? Oh, yes, I do. I remember when I

00:53:58.170 --> 00:54:01.289
was young, actually, my grandmother told me about

00:54:01.289 --> 00:54:04.070
this and my dad also talked about it very briefly.

00:54:05.849 --> 00:54:09.460
It's about this rumor going around Singapore

00:54:09.460 --> 00:54:14.280
that amongst men that dicks are getting smaller.

00:54:14.840 --> 00:54:19.679
But my, my, but I remember my dad saying it wasn't

00:54:19.679 --> 00:54:23.480
about dicks getting smaller. It's about, about

00:54:23.480 --> 00:54:27.039
losing the jewels. Yes. The jewels kind of shrinking

00:54:27.039 --> 00:54:32.159
back in. Back in. Yeah. And that, and, and, and

00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:37.019
I mean, that thing, you know, jewels going back

00:54:37.019 --> 00:54:40.739
in it's quite a reality you know by the way especially

00:54:40.739 --> 00:54:44.800
amongst young children from some boys i know

00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:47.679
for i know of some that they had got a this is

00:54:47.679 --> 00:54:50.780
this standard i think the term is yeah so coral

00:54:50.780 --> 00:54:54.599
it's um it's i mean i i think maybe there's some

00:54:54.599 --> 00:54:56.679
truth in it There's some truth in it, although

00:54:56.679 --> 00:54:59.300
there's also a lot of superstition around it.

00:54:59.380 --> 00:55:02.639
A lot of old wives' tale. So this particular

00:55:02.639 --> 00:55:07.400
phenomenon happened in 1967. Apparently, one

00:55:07.400 --> 00:55:10.219
in five men, there was a rumor going around at

00:55:10.219 --> 00:55:14.039
that time that eating the pork of vaccinated

00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:20.980
pigs would make your dick disappear. so to speak

00:55:20.980 --> 00:55:26.159
so there was a mass hysteria and they sent 500

00:55:26.159 --> 00:55:30.139
men into the A &E at the SGH and Van Toxing so

00:55:30.139 --> 00:55:31.940
was this no no that's a true account that's a

00:55:31.940 --> 00:55:34.559
true account go and google it I'm not making

00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:37.400
this up so did they get the links back well they

00:55:37.840 --> 00:55:40.400
Try all kinds of ways to tie the dick before

00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:42.099
it disappears. Wait, wait, wait. Don't spoil

00:55:42.099 --> 00:55:43.840
it. Don't spoil it because I haven't written

00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:46.820
it yet. But do me a favor with you, especially

00:55:46.820 --> 00:55:48.860
when you're planning it. Come back and tell me

00:55:48.860 --> 00:55:50.619
what happened to those five guys. Did they get

00:55:50.619 --> 00:55:53.860
their dicks back? No, 500. More than 500 men.

00:55:54.639 --> 00:55:58.929
500? Yeah. More than 5 ,000 men went to the A

00:55:58.929 --> 00:56:00.849
&E. No, they went to the A &E, but did they really

00:56:00.849 --> 00:56:04.190
have the problem? No. Precisely. But were there

00:56:04.190 --> 00:56:07.190
anyone that actually had the problem? No. Not

00:56:07.190 --> 00:56:11.989
on record. Okay. All right. Shucks. I heard five

00:56:11.989 --> 00:56:17.449
guys actually had that. Oh, okay. That's one

00:56:17.449 --> 00:56:20.269
of the stories I'm looking on. I can do the voiceover

00:56:20.269 --> 00:56:23.230
for you, man, for that one. You wake up one morning.

00:56:24.090 --> 00:56:28.710
You pull the sheets down. You look below. It's

00:56:28.710 --> 00:56:34.349
gone. It was there last night. I went to bed.

00:56:34.570 --> 00:56:38.349
It went to bed with me. I woke up. It wasn't

00:56:38.349 --> 00:56:42.389
there. Neither was he. I'm going to lodge a police

00:56:42.389 --> 00:56:47.550
report. Missing person. Missing member of my

00:56:47.550 --> 00:56:54.369
family. I've lost my brother. Dick is lost. Good

00:56:54.369 --> 00:56:57.840
one. I tell you, I do it for you, man. If you

00:56:57.840 --> 00:57:00.880
want to make it funny, I do it for you. Well,

00:57:00.900 --> 00:57:02.820
so that's one of the graphic novels I'm working

00:57:02.820 --> 00:57:05.360
on. The other one is on the anti -opium movement

00:57:05.360 --> 00:57:10.099
back in 1905, 1906. Right, right, right. So it's

00:57:10.099 --> 00:57:12.360
a little -known fact that Dr. Lim Boon Keng,

00:57:12.460 --> 00:57:15.059
you know, Boon Keng Station, Upper Boon Keng

00:57:15.059 --> 00:57:18.619
Road, Boon Keng Street. He was involved in the

00:57:18.619 --> 00:57:22.039
whole anti -opium movement back in the day together

00:57:22.039 --> 00:57:26.519
with Instruct Chuan. Who was the father of Leslie

00:57:26.519 --> 00:57:30.579
Charteris. Oh, the writer. The writer. The saint.

00:57:30.639 --> 00:57:33.260
The saint. Yeah, wow. So, he was the father.

00:57:33.300 --> 00:57:37.840
Did you know that? No. Leslie Charteris was actually

00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:40.579
Singaporean. You're shitting me. No. There's

00:57:40.579 --> 00:57:44.159
one of those where... The guy who wrote Simon

00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:46.960
Templer, the saint. Yeah. He was Eurasian. Holy

00:57:46.960 --> 00:57:51.650
shit. His mother was English and then his father

00:57:51.650 --> 00:57:53.829
was a medical doctor, a Chinese medical doctor

00:57:53.829 --> 00:57:56.630
in Singapore. But why Charteris? He decided to

00:57:56.630 --> 00:57:59.800
change his name as a pseudonym. Because he also

00:57:59.800 --> 00:58:03.159
felt that if he took on an English name, his

00:58:03.159 --> 00:58:05.179
books would sell better. Well, that's true. And

00:58:05.179 --> 00:58:08.760
that's true. Again, context, right? At that point

00:58:08.760 --> 00:58:11.300
in time, it was true. Yeah, we were getting cancelled.

00:58:11.440 --> 00:58:15.559
Yeah. And then sometime in his youth, he decided

00:58:15.559 --> 00:58:19.610
to move to England. Right. I think he only came

00:58:19.610 --> 00:58:21.909
back to Singapore once. Oh, that's interesting,

00:58:22.030 --> 00:58:24.889
man. So, Ying Shui Chuan, his father, and Lim

00:58:24.889 --> 00:58:27.409
Boon Kang started this whole movement against

00:58:27.409 --> 00:58:32.510
opium. Opium at the time was legal. And in fact,

00:58:32.530 --> 00:58:35.869
the colonial government back then, I think half

00:58:35.869 --> 00:58:38.630
their revenue came from the sale of opium. Well,

00:58:38.710 --> 00:58:41.969
I mean, they were the ones who got most of old

00:58:41.969 --> 00:58:45.300
China addicted. Yes. The Anglo -Chinese War,

00:58:45.380 --> 00:58:48.019
1839, 1842. The whole Opium War thing. Yeah,

00:58:48.019 --> 00:58:50.760
the Opium War. Yeah, Opium War. I mean, that's

00:58:50.760 --> 00:58:53.380
how they got control when you just turned these

00:58:53.380 --> 00:58:57.239
guys into addicts. Yeah. I remember we did have

00:58:57.239 --> 00:59:01.519
that problem, you know, with opium dens and stuff

00:59:01.519 --> 00:59:03.440
like that. And I think it went on for quite some

00:59:03.440 --> 00:59:05.599
time. Quite some time. I think even in the 50s.

00:59:05.800 --> 00:59:09.340
50s. Because my dad was a cop during the 50s.

00:59:09.539 --> 00:59:11.940
And he did tell me that there were opium dens,

00:59:12.079 --> 00:59:15.659
man. Still. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even with the government

00:59:15.659 --> 00:59:17.460
cracking down on open drugs. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:21.340
It went on for quite a bit. It did. I think when,

00:59:21.400 --> 00:59:23.920
of course, I think that's the reason why when

00:59:23.920 --> 00:59:27.280
we gained our independence, our government got

00:59:27.280 --> 00:59:31.340
so hard about drugs because the government of

00:59:31.340 --> 00:59:34.539
the day, our government of the day, you know,

00:59:34.559 --> 00:59:37.159
when we turned independent, probably they were,

00:59:37.300 --> 00:59:39.420
when they, you know, Prime Minister Lee Kuan

00:59:39.420 --> 00:59:42.880
Yew, well, the late, Mr Lee Kuan Yew and of course

00:59:42.880 --> 00:59:44.739
his cabinet ministers and the people in his camp

00:59:44.739 --> 00:59:49.039
in parliament then probably knew all this they

00:59:49.039 --> 00:59:51.760
saw this happening from the time they were young

00:59:51.760 --> 00:59:54.139
right during the colonial days and I guess they

00:59:54.139 --> 00:59:56.519
also know that this is this is this is an evil

00:59:56.519 --> 00:59:58.800
man you just can't let it go on you need to eradicate

00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:01.179
yeah yeah and I completely agree with that anyway

01:00:02.179 --> 01:00:04.360
Yeah, so great. I'm looking forward to those,

01:00:04.460 --> 01:00:08.019
man. Make sure you spill your ink here as well.

01:00:08.099 --> 01:00:10.420
Yes, definitely. Didn't sound very right. If

01:00:10.420 --> 01:00:12.260
you invite me back. Of course I will. This is

01:00:12.260 --> 01:00:15.559
the third time you're actually in studio with

01:00:15.559 --> 01:00:20.019
me, man. The first time was with the book I collaborated

01:00:20.019 --> 01:00:23.059
with you, remember? oh yeah that's right in the

01:00:23.059 --> 01:00:26.659
other podcast letter to my son and then of course

01:00:26.659 --> 01:00:29.039
the one with go king sweet you were here with

01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:32.519
Sinan and then now this one right be real thank

01:00:32.519 --> 01:00:34.599
you so much no at all thank you for being here

01:00:34.599 --> 01:00:36.800
man I really hope I didn't spoil things for you

01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:44.920
I'd like to end this way Felix put up that, slide

01:00:44.920 --> 01:00:47.179
that in, please, Kai. Thank you. There you go,

01:00:47.300 --> 01:00:52.219
everyone. Be Real, A Guide to Authenticity. That's

01:00:52.219 --> 01:00:54.639
what it's all about. All about, you've heard

01:00:54.639 --> 01:00:57.179
what we've got to say. And look at the zombie

01:00:57.179 --> 01:00:59.019
thing. Look at it as a horror story. It's going

01:00:59.019 --> 01:01:01.360
to be more fun that way, in my opinion. Grab

01:01:01.360 --> 01:01:03.519
your copy of Be Real, A Guide to Authenticity

01:01:03.519 --> 01:01:08.730
for only 21. Available at Kinokuniya and the

01:01:08.730 --> 01:01:12.150
Book Bar. You can also shop online at kinokuniya

01:01:12.150 --> 01:01:16.570
.com .sg as well as at amazon .sg. Make sure

01:01:16.570 --> 01:01:22.670
you grab a zombie copy today. Thanks for watching,

01:01:22.710 --> 01:01:25.230
everybody. The first pilot episode of Ink Spill.

01:01:25.369 --> 01:01:27.750
And thank you, Felix, again for being with us.

01:01:28.550 --> 01:01:30.730
Continue watching Season 5. We still got a couple

01:01:30.730 --> 01:01:32.989
more episodes to go before we take a season break.

01:01:33.110 --> 01:02:30.849
This is Chris Hansen. Bye -bye. And cut. The

01:02:30.849 --> 01:02:34.530
Chris Henson conversation. No scripts. No filters.

01:02:34.730 --> 01:02:37.969
Just real talk. The most authentic conversations

01:02:37.969 --> 01:02:38.929
in Singapore.