You know the song from Michael Jackson, Don't Stop Till Again?
You know the opening percussions before the song started?
Is she the E?
Really?
And you know how he found her?
Because she proved it with just emptying glass, water out of certain bottles
and then she was...
She was hitting it huh?
She was hitting it.
Okay, so let's start the gig.
This is how we're gonna do it.
We're gonna start with you.
You have a video.
Oh yes.
Okay, Kai, let it rip.
Oh man, oh man, oh man.
Wow, that was a warm up actually.
That was a warm up?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was in US.
That was in the US?
Yeah.
What were you playing for?
When?
When and for what?
I can't remember that outlet, that state.
It was for George Lam concert.
Oh for George Lam in the US?
Yeah.
There's a demand for George...
Sorry George.
There's a demand for George Lam in the US.
There's always a demand because of the Chinese community over there.
Oh wow.
Yeah.
I didn't expect that.
Yes, we were touring for George Lam that time.
That was just before Covid I think.
Before Covid?
Just before Covid.
And which part of the US was this?
Good question.
New York?
We went to Reno.
Oh wow.
I think SF.
I can't remember man.
Yeah, it's something...
San Fran?
I know definitely Reno.
I remember.
Yeah.
Wow, George Lam in Reno and San Francisco.
Yeah, yeah.
I traveled to US to play for them quite a bit actually.
Wow.
Okay everybody, switch to my cam.
Thank you very much Kai.
Hi everyone.
Welcome back to the Chris Hansen Conversation.
It's my tribute to Singapore's music icons.
And I have a real icon here with me.
He's a dynamite drummer.
And please help me welcome Jimmy Lee.
Hi everybody.
Welcome to the show man.
Thanks for being here.
Thanks Chris.
Thanks for inviting me.
No, my pleasure.
My pleasure.
It's my tribute to you.
And as I mentioned before we started filming that, you know Jimmy,
I want to make sure that Singaporeans and people within the region,
because I don't care about anywhere else,
this show goes out to a lot of people within our...
You know, our close proximity to Singapore,
that this man has got to be recognized.
I mean just listen to that drumming.
Come on, come on, come on.
And before the new top drummers we've got now in this country,
there was you.
Oh, thank you.
Okay.
You and I can think of one or two more.
Okay.
Which eventually I will have them on this show,
maybe next season and I will pay tribute to them.
But definitely you're one of those that has left a mark man.
As you said, you were playing for George Lam on tour in the US.
And I also know, because I have to do my due diligence right,
and check you out.
You played for Ame.
Yes, yes, yes.
You played for Jackie Chung, you played for Sally Yeh,
you played for Aaron Kwok, you played for Lobo,
you played for Stephanie Sun and the list can go on and on and on.
Pretty long actually.
Yeah.
Yeah. You want to add on to the list?
Because I've, okay, those Hong Kong artists and those like Lam
and some of the Hong Kong artists, which is the older names,
they Paula Choi and all these people,
they actually find me up there to play for them.
Wow. How did he get to know you?
That's a good question.
Actually, many years ago, okay, when I was touring Ame,
we went to Hong Kong
and it was, if I remember, the concert was in Kai Tak Airport.
In the airport?
Yeah, because they changed the airport to a new airport.
So the Kai Tak runway, we did a concert there.
Isn't that where the houses and all that,
you can see the homes and apartments and so on.
So we were actually on the runway, we did the concert.
Oh man.
Fantastic.
Oh wow.
The sound was really good because no slap back,
you just throw out.
Wow.
Okay, so from there, the music director for Josh Lam and Sally,
at that time, spotted me.
And then out of a sudden, when I finished the tour with Ame,
they called me.
Okay.
They somehow called me to go with them to Connecticut.
Connecticut.
Mohegan Sons for Josh Lam and Sally.
Wow.
So from then onwards, you know.
And they were singing Chinese songs?
Chinese songs.
Only one or two English songs.
Wow.
All Cantonese, yeah.
Cantonese and Mandarin.
Oh wow.
So from then on, the Hong Kong people heard about me.
Abbie heard about me, Kenny B.
Kenny B?
Abbie?
Yeah, yeah, I call him Abbie, nice guy.
You know what I mean?
Hey Abbie, Kenny B.
Yeah, Alan Tom and everybody.
So then they need a drummer, then they called me up to play.
And you played for Jackie Cheung as well.
Yeah, I did with him in Guangzhou, yes.
Wow, wow.
Nice man.
And of all the list of names I saw,
all the Cantonese, Hong Kong superstars, they appeared,
there's one name, Lobo.
Yeah, okay.
I don't know how it happened that Lobo was brought in by,
I cannot remember this person's name.
Singapore.
Yeah, okay.
And he did a show here.
We did it in Vietnam actually, Ho Chi Minh City.
This guy was doing shows at that time.
And he said, okay, I need a drummer, I need a band.
So it was just a four piece.
And then with Lobo's manager playing the guitar.
His manager played the guitar.
Yeah, and sing well too, harmonize with him.
And then from there, we rehearsed and we went to Vietnam, Ho Chi Minh.
After that, when Lobo came back again one more time,
and it was myself and a different band, just a few of us.
We played for him at this club called Psychedelic.
Okay.
Yeah.
And that was...
He played in a small club.
Yeah, just a...
Okay, wow.
But nice guy, easy to work with.
Yeah, I mean you met some people.
Okay, I'll be fair, I have to be fair here.
I have met...
I have sung George Lam's part with Sally Yeh in 1993 when I was 23 years old.
George Lam part, that song, nothing is going to stop us now?
No, Shen Ze.
Oh, wow.
That's their famous song.
Yeah, yeah.
So by chance, that was completely unplanned.
I was a host for the show and I met Jackie Cheung over drinks actually.
Over drink?
Yeah, yeah, because I hosted another event that he was...
Sometimes they do come down to give private gigs.
Yes, they do.
And I get hired to host some private gigs, so I didn't manage to at least have a drink with Jackie Cheung.
That's nice.
Okay, if you look at it carefully, most of the artists that I have played for are Chinese ones.
Yes.
Somehow, but I did some English ones which is not many because they come with their own band and everything.
Can you name some?
I only have a few, it's like the crystals, have you ever had crystals?
No, man.
Crystals, like three girls, three ladies.
We did a show, I did a show for them at the S Planet.
Okay.
And then the Three Degrees.
Oh wow, were you Diana Ross?
No, the Three Degrees is the latest Three Degrees.
I think there's only one original inside.
Is that right?
I don't know her name.
So they kept changing, I didn't know that.
Yeah, the Three Degrees, so the original, only one left, the other one they just quit or whatever.
We did explain it as well.
Right.
That was a few years ago only.
Okay, hang on, I got my facts wrong, didn't I?
Diana Ross was not with the Three Degrees, man.
She was with the Supremes.
Supremes.
I'm sorry.
Yeah.
See, me, my discography gone out the window.
So Jimmy, you know, you're a guy, have we seen the way you drum?
I've seen the way you drum.
I have not seen you perform, man.
I've seen you perform several times.
Oh, that's nice.
Thank you.
I have, I have, definitely for sure.
And if I hadn't, you wouldn't be here.
At the same time, you know, I've heard, we just talked about how you've gone on tours
and how you worked with these legends, right?
Now I'm going to ask you this question I ask of most, not all, most of my guests.
Now I like you to think deeply when I ask you this question, okay?
I try.
In your own words, who is Jiminy?
How to describe myself, right?
Well, yeah, it is most intimate detail.
Actually, I'm a very private person.
I can tell.
Yeah, seriously, I'm a very, I just do my work, I exercise at least three times a week.
Okay.
And then I don't, I don't really drink.
Yeah, I don't really drink.
Yeah, I really don't.
I'm a very simple person.
That's me.
And, and I just go to work.
I teach, right?
I teach students and I want them to be good.
I, I like to share.
That's me.
I don't keep it to myself.
Right.
Why do you like to share?
Because I feel that if somebody wants to learn, why not?
Because I wanted to learn, right?
At the time when I started drumming.
I wanted to learn and I had teacher and then I went to US to study and I come back.
If somebody wanted to learn from you and just share.
No harm.
Now that you've mentioned it, you've got a teacher.
When you think back, what, let's go way back, okay?
That very first spark, like being struck by lightning.
That interest, the initial interest in drumming at US,
in drumming at age 17.
What's that moment like that you realized drumming was your calling?
Is it your calling?
It is, right?
It is.
For sure.
It is a calling.
What happened was, okay, when I was young, okay, this has got to go back to really when I was young.
Sure, please.
So those days we had ready fusion, you know.
Oh, everyone talks about ready fusion.
Ready fusion is like a box.
Cable radio.
Yeah.
And then I was listening to music all the time, right?
Yeah.
And then Tom Jones, those days, and I would just tap my hand to the groove.
How old were you then when you were tapping your hands listening to ready fusion?
I was like primary school, primary six.
Okay.
12 years old?
Yeah, 12 years old, then second four.
In fact, most of the time I tap on is when I was in primary school.
Because when I went to secondary school, it was a really different story.
Okay.
Yeah.
So at that primary school time, I was listening to all those, you know, Tom Jones and tapping
the rhythm.
And I had that rhythm together with, I could go with the music, my hand.
Like this is the bass drum and this is the...
Could you show it to me?
How is it?
You were doing that.
I was doing all this.
And somehow I had that with me.
Then from then on, I went to secondary school.
And this friend of mine, very nice boy, friend, classmate, he just want to form a band.
And he asked me, Jimmy, do you play drums?
I just say, yes.
But you didn't, you have not had any formal training?
No.
Okay.
I just say yes.
Okay.
We need a second drummer, you know, those school days.
Right, right.
Second drummer.
I'm not the main one.
They need a relief drummer.
Okay.
Then I just went there, I could just groove, play a simple groove.
Play a simple groove.
Wait.
I'm not kidding you.
You had no formal training.
No formal training.
You were holding sticks.
Yes.
And there was a snare in front of you and a hi-hat there.
And you knew what to do.
Including with the kick and the...
Yeah, of course simple rock beat.
They are not that complicated.
But how did you do?
How did that happen?
I mean, you see the same thing I asked Stephen Francis.
He's a prodigy.
He can pick up a freaking instrument now.
This has never touched it before.
And he could play the damn thing.
And all he could tell me was, I don't know, I'm just gifted.
I mean, that's...
I'm trying to...
It's a...
No, it's a true thing.
It's a gifted...
No, I know, I know.
I understand that.
I'm just trying to understand the psychology behind it.
In layman's terms.
Because he couldn't explain it to me.
But now since Jimmy Lee has mentioned to me that I got on the damn drums and I could get a beat.
And I'm trying to understand how did that happen?
I mean, what was going through you, man?
When you must have told yourself, I had no formal training.
And I said, yes, I can play.
And now I'm rehearsing, I'm playing, I'm jamming in the band.
And then I could do this.
Didn't it occur to you that asking yourself maybe, how did I manage to do that?
Oh, I never did ask myself.
What?
I don't...
I never...
I just go there and then I remember with all those songs like CCR songs.
Yeah, yeah.
All those simple ones.
Simple.
Yeah, I mean, just to...
To Jimmy Lee, it's simple.
I mean, I just play a simple straight groove and that was it.
I could just coordinate.
But how did you know that what you had to do with the bass drum, the kick, and then with the hi-hat?
No, it's in the head.
Serious?
Yeah, it's in the head.
Because you see, when you do this, you know it's a bass drum.
You know that it's a low sound, right?
You see on the drum set.
So to you, it's logical.
To you, it was logical.
Yeah, it's just like that.
Then you just go and coordinate.
I never had problem coordinating at all to be honest with you.
Seriously.
I have a lot of problems coordinating, man.
Never had.
I never had that.
Never had that.
Even then, you know, many years ago, my brother, he had some friends, you know, some guys play
some guitar, whatever.
They came to my...
We were staying in a flat at the time.
I just hit it with them on the thing.
That's it.
I could just do it.
Okay, okay.
Now, which secondary school was that?
SGI.
Another SGI boy.
The brass bassa one, okay?
I had to qualify that one.
Okay, okay, okay.
Since you mentioned brass bassa, the one in brass bassa, you mentioned the brass bassa
one in brass bassa, the one in town.
There's not one museum.
There's no longer a museum.
Don't know what they're going to do with that building, but never mind.
I'm not updated on that.
But I dare say, for the guys in music and in media, in entertainment, or from your era,
if they say they come from SGI town, brass bassa, then yeah, the talents came from that era
in town.
I don't know about the new ones after that.
I don't know about the new ones.
After that, they all came from my school, man.
Which is?
St. Pat's.
That is brother school.
This is how I slided in.
Brother school.
Yeah, Christian brother school.
Now, it's interesting, man.
Thanks for sharing that.
But I'd just like to ask, since you say...
Okay, I think we can confirm this, that Jimmy Lee's drumming, and how you've journeyed your
entire life in the world of drumming, is actually an innate thing.
It is talent.
It is prodigious.
You are a prodigy in drumming.
You have this natural talent, right?
But those days, they don't talk about it.
Yeah, because you mentioned it before in a previous interview.
You talked about nature and nurture in drumming.
And you believe that...
You believe... I'm not going to quote verbatim because I didn't put it down to be...
I'm going to be a real nice guy and not quote verbatim.
You said that it's more nature than it is nurture.
Do you still believe in that today?
Now that you've got students in your teaching.
I do, I do.
So, do you have students that don't have it in nature, but love to play the drums,
and you nurtured them to play?
Yes, I do.
So, can you actually tell me now that those guys, that category of drummers that you've trained,
they were not natural, but they've been nurtured by you,
can play as well as those that are natural and trained by you?
Or is there a difference?
Okay.
Somehow in music...
Let me see.
The feeling of it, the feel.
Right.
So, if a student, okay, if I make him to teach him how to play to a certain level that he can come and gig,
it will sound good too.
But what...
The element there, the little thing there, the missing thing might be the FEEL I'm talking about.
When you say feel, you mean the groove.
To feel the music.
I learned this term.
That is...
Akin to what you've just said about feel.
Because I know you mentioned that in another interview.
It's got to be very natural feeling.
Okay, what I listen to, say, my favorite drummer, Steve Gat,
I could feel it from him when he plays.
When I listen to him.
But some people are so technical that I think it's very good, but I cannot feel it.
I think I've come to a point now that I've spoken to a lot of musos about Aaliyah, I spoke to her about this as well.
I think I spoke to Owen Lee about this, right?
Kai, I think I did.
I think so, yes.
Between the difference between a technical player and a musical player.
Right.
So, you're saying the feel is about whether or not you're musical or technical.
Can't a person have both?
You can.
Of course.
I mean, if you're born naturally, you can.
You really went to the New York Drummers Collective.
Jimmy Lee is talented, which is why I'm paying tribute to you.
Thank you again.
And you went to the prestigious New York Drummers Collective.
You went there to learn.
Why did Jimmy Lee find a need to learn, even though you're so talented already?
Because, okay, very simple.
Now, the Singapore music scene was, all those days, it was just with this old pioneer people who you learn from, right?
And at the same time, my genre, I like to listen to those fusion.
Jazz fusion.
And like I say, my favourite drummers are like Steve Gadd, this Dave Becker, Oveir Neogra.
All this kind of thing.
Nobody could change.
We don't have that.
We didn't have the videos.
We couldn't access videos those days.
Pardon me for asking.
I'm sorry to interject here.
But what year was that?
The 70s, 80s?
I went to US in 89.
89? That was a little later already.
Before that.
So I was studying, I was drumming from 1974.
Okay.
Between 70 something to 80.
There was no educational videos.
There wasn't?
There wasn't.
And the materials, when I went to the US, then you open your eyes to see, there are a lot of materials over there.
Right.
So I listened.
And those days, I listened to, like I say, Gadd, and Chick Corea, with all these people.
And that kind of drumming really enticed me.
It really gave me the inspiration to want to learn how to play those kind of stuff.
And then what I did was, every time I go to the record shop.
You know, I was at Plaza Singapura those days.
Record shop.
You know, last time, I would just, I would buy the record and see, oh, is this drummer Steve Gadd playing?
That kind of thing.
And then I'll just go back and listen.
And I'll buy the cassette tape, you know, cassette tape.
I'm not that young, don't worry about it.
Cassette tape, and I borrowed a player from my friend.
He had a player that he could slow down the tape.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right?
Yeah, yeah.
And I had catch the links to how they play from there.
Oh, okay.
And so from then, I told myself that I would like to go and learn properly this kind of stuff.
Because there are formulas.
So you wanted to sharpen the axe.
Yeah.
There are formulas on how to do it.
There are formulas.
There are ways of, like a fundamental way to come into, leading to that, right?
That's why I decided to go.
But was it really helpful for you, you know, being in the drummer's collective in New York?
Of course, of course.
It really did help you out.
It, different world altogether.
Okay, so back to my previous question then.
A guy who's, say for example, hypothetically, like you, went to the New York drummer's collective,
came back, whoa, I've learned all that.
It's all the technical stuff, huh?
And he's musical.
Right?
Right.
I mean, that's going to be a monster, isn't he?
I'm not a monster.
I don't think in that way.
So, which is where I was saying, your students, you know, those guys who were born innate with that natural talent,
they've got the musicality, they've got the feel.
And then you add that with Jimmy Lee's instructions, you know?
Yeah, they'll go somewhere.
They become monsters too.
But the guys who don't have that feel, can they become monsters?
They can.
They just have to work harder.
To work harder at what?
To get the feel?
To practice.
Feeling of the music, you cannot teach.
You can't cultivate that.
You cannot teach.
I have to say that.
Really?
There's no way you can cultivate someone to, he wants badly to do it.
Let's say he wants badly to do it.
I don't think you can.
I think maybe to a little bit only to try to imitate or emulate or whatever.
So the guy's a num nut.
He plays music but he's a num nut.
The feeling is different.
The feeling is from the heart.
The insight.
Okay.
I'm trying to ask myself whether I'm a num nut.
So your drumming influences, were there anyone here in maybe in your own personal life other
than Steve Gatz and all these guys that you grew up listening to and loving their music,
were there any personal influences in your life that helped you shape your style?
Yeah.
Actually, when I, okay, my teacher, my first teacher was Tony Zee.
Wow.
Okay.
Great, great person.
From Jaramzie, right?
Was he part of Jaramzie?
Yeah.
Jeremy and Romney.
Yeah, I learned from him.
Then actually he was my only teacher here and he was the one who actually led me to the
music scene.
So in a sense, like, you know, mentioned about me to the people and then, you know,
I got into the scene.
Is Tony Zee still playing?
I think so.
I think he's still playing.
Haven't heard about him in a long time.
Yeah, he's still doing, he's still playing, I think.
And so that was from him.
In Singapore, it's only him.
And I've seen people like Louis Suliano, great jazz drummer.
I would say he's really one of the best jazz drummer here.
I told Stephen and Rob the last time they were here during for this show and I did mention
that I did send an invite to pay tribute to Louis Suliano and Louis doesn't remember me.
I called him and said, what do you mean you don't remember me?
It's very hard for people to forget who I am, man.
But then again, you know, the guy's 85, you know, and he actually very nicely said that,
Chris, I'm too old for this.
Talk to the younger guys.
Yeah, okay.
I mean, I used to watch him play almost every night.
It's a great drummer.
Yeah, when he was at the Ritz-Carlton together with Mervyn Donis and, you know, and wow,
and Kenny, the man, scat.
And then the other jazz drummer passed on, Sanib, his mom.
Oh, I played the Sanib.
Great drummer.
His son now is playing.
So these are the three of them.
Ah, Sanib was one of them.
Sanib was a monster, man.
Those days, yeah.
And then I came in.
Yeah.
I had Bonnie, Bonnie Face and Wendy on the show.
I paid tribute to them.
And, you know, and I actually mentioned Sanib because I had, I was so fortunate to have
had played with Sanib.
Oh my goodness, that guy.
Very good.
Fluid, man.
He's so fluid.
Oh, yeah.
So these are the three of them.
The three of them, huh?
Yeah.
But the educational side was from Tony Moore.
Okay.
And then for someone, let's talk about the art of drumming, okay?
For someone just starting out, what would you look out for?
What are the essential rudiments they, well, rather, what should they at least have for
you to be able to say to them, okay, I'll teach you.
I think you can.
What should they have in them?
The attitude must be right.
Yeah.
Because some of them, they, you see, but like currently I'm teaching still at Kawai Music
School.
Okay.
Yeah.
I'm at Kawai now.
Okay.
And when they come in, let's say if a new student come in, I will sit down with them
and then listen to how he or she play, whatever.
Sometimes it's, they can't, they know zero.
Yeah.
Then I will just have to talk to them.
And if they were introduced to the course to them, and if they really want to learn,
they have to go through it.
Okay.
From scratch.
Right.
Yeah.
But there are some people who already learn.
But if I feel that they're missing a lot of fundamentals, then I will explain and say
you need to go back to base.
Do that.
Before I will take you.
Okay.
If not, I will not.
Because you have to accept that.
Right.
You're just not built for it, is it?
Yeah.
Not say not built, not ready for it.
It's like, I'm not saying other people's education are not right or whatever, but
some of them, the students don't practice the whatever the teacher asks them to do.
Right.
And then if they feel that that teacher is not happening, you don't come to me, you
know, I think it's not fair.
Okay.
Right.
Okay.
It's a boils down to that person learning.
What was that?
So it boils down to the person who's going to learn, right?
If you never work on all these kinds of fundamentals, then I will have to make sure that you do
it.
And if you want to do it, then I'll take you.
If a person shows that basically they don't have it at all, not just by fundamentals,
let's say I come and I have a coordination problem, but I want to badly learn the drums.
Okay.
So I shouldn't really attempt it, should I?
No, you can attempt.
Because like I say, that's a method.
Okay.
Right.
That's a method.
Like say some people, the coordination is not there.
Right.
Playing drums is not.
Okay.
So I have a question.
How many limbs do you play drums?
Four.
Yeah.
Then you can be a drummer.
I mean, it's obvious it's four.
Yeah.
Okay.
So the method, right, you just need to slowly, you can have patience as a teacher, right,
to train the student.
The patience is the number one key.
Right.
Okay.
But not kids here for me.
Not kids.
For me it's difficult.
The kids, I can't.
To a certain age, yes.
But you just have to get them to coordinate.
Yeah.
By reading.
Okay.
It will be a good start.
Right.
Just play what you see.
So drum, the drum notes.
The drum notes.
Okay.
Play what you see.
If I write, say for example, write eight of them with your right hand, you just play right
hand.
And then if that part you need to, you need to hit it together, you just hit it together.
That's how you create coordination, right?
Correct.
You make it sound so easy.
Yes, it's so easy.
You know why I ask you this question?
Many, not many, my son is still young.
My son is turning 16 this year.
Several years back when he was in primary school, he said to the both of us that he
would like to learn to play the drums.
Without mentioning it is the name of the establishment.
I brought him there for a trial.
Okay.
And this drum teacher or this drum coach was there.
And the way I saw him handle my son, now don't get me wrong, I'm not a helicopter parent.
Right.
Okay.
I understand the need to be, to sometimes be firm.
Yeah.
But there is a right kind of firmness and there's a wrong kind of firmness.
And I teach as well.
As you can see, I got a white board in my studio, right?
So I teach public speaking.
I teach voice.
Now, when I was there watching this guy go through stuff with my, I think he was 10 or
11 only at the time.
Okay.
And the way he was talking to my son, the impatience.
I swear he would have taken a drumstick to knock him on his knuckles.
I just think that that is a wrong kind of education, especially for music.
You're really going to turn people off, especially at a young age from music.
And there's one guy I won't, I will never pay tribute to.
I'll take tomatoes, the rotten ones and throw it in.
I think he's a bollocks man.
No, really in order to, you want to instruct students, you want to be a teacher or a teacher
or train, you got to be patient.
You know, you got to be patient and get them to play and explain to them.
Yeah.
Then they'll understand.
Right.
Of course, I, I, I, that's something I completely concur with.
But Jimmy, is it true?
Because I've heard this since I was in school.
Let me tell you something, man.
Why I said earlier-
You're talking about in school, St. Pat's.
St. Pat's.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm going to go with this now.
And now that you, I wanted to say that.
Okay.
St. Pat's when I was in school.
Yeah.
We had a lot of great guys, man.
We had Boon Chye.
Oh, Boon Chye?
Oh yeah.
I don't know.
Bong?
Yeah, Bong I know.
Yeah.
These guys are just a year of my senior.
Right.
There was this drummer, man.
The late Edmund Branson.
Oh, Edmund Branson.
Also from St. Pat's.
Yes.
But he's good drummer.
Oh man.
These guys were playing jazz fusion in school.
Yeah.
We were playing Shack Attack.
You know, you-
Oh ho ho.
Oh my goodness me.
Good drummer.
Bong, Boon Chye, Edmund Branson.
You see, my generation of St. Pat's.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And they were playing jazz fusion.
Then from that time, I've always heard this from then to now.
I don't know.
I want to confirm it with you.
Yeah.
Is it true that once a drummer can play jazz, he can play any genre?
I would say yes and a little bit no.
Okay, that's a bit-
Yeah, you see, on drumming, my point is this.
Now jazz music, right, when you talk about jazz, it depends on what you talk about.
You talk about swing or you talk about fusion or what?
I don't know.
I mean, jazz, I don't know.
That's all I heard, jazz.
In school, me now.
Yeah.
So, now pop is different.
Yeah, okay.
Pop, you need to be in the pocket.
What do you mean by pocket?
It's spot on to the tempo.
You cannot, you can afford to run or drag a very slight-
You mean improvise?
No, tempo.
Okay.
It's all about tempo, you know, because the singer needs to sing, especially for example,
my case, I play for all these artists, right?
I need to be very steady in my tempo so that the singer can deliver the lyrics, you know,
the phrasing and everything.
But if you fluctuate a lot, then it's very difficult for them.
Sure.
Correct?
Yes.
Now, when you play all those funk and all those good, it needs to be like that.
But if it's swing, which is straight ahead swing, it's usually ahead in tempo.
Yeah.
So, as a drummer, for example, if you want to be an all-rounder, you must really listen
to all the different genres.
Right.
So, you can play them.
Okay.
So, what you're saying is that if you can play jazz, swing specifically?
Swing has, for drummer, it could be independence.
Yeah.
So, you should be able to play-
It's more expressive.
Yeah, more expressive.
So, you can play pop, everything.
You can play, but whether your groove will be in the pocket is a question mark.
Right.
Yeah.
Okay.
Wow, that's interesting.
You cannot, you see, jazz is very free.
Yeah.
When you play pop, you cannot be too free.
Yeah.
Because everything is so formatted.
Yeah.
Like you said, pocket, right?
Yeah, pocket.
It's more format.
When to feel and what suits the music too.
Now, can I then assume that Jimmy Lee can play anywhere from jazz, jazz fusion, swing,
funk up to pop, up to rock even?
Yes, I do.
I play different genres.
Yeah.
So-
I played them.
So, when you, you had to learn this or is it in you also?
I studied them.
You studied them?
Yes.
Because when I went to, I mean, I studied swing, I studied Latin and pop and all.
When I went to US, I took up different, different courses in collective itself.
Plus, I paid an extra advanced course in it as well so that I can learn different, different
stuff.
Was it, was that experience for you?
You know, paying money, yes, is one thing.
But you obviously, the passion is there.
Did it feel, every day is a joy just learning this?
Oh yeah.
I mean, learning something new is always nice for me.
Okay, that's cool.
I enjoy learning.
And I was a trainee for Singapore Symphony Orchestra before.
Who is it?
Yeah, a short one.
Wow.
Yeah, but that's classical, you see.
So, and I think I cannot make, I cannot do it.
I can't because there's no drum set.
And a good drummer, drum on just about anything.
Unconventional instruments, bottles, like Sheila E, you know?
Yeah, I know.
But I have not thought about that yet.
You know the story about Sheila E?
No, I don't.
I don't know.
I'm married to Santana.
Is she still married to Santana?
I don't know.
But a great drummer.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Percussionist, right?
You know the song from Michael Jackson, Don't Stop Till Again Enough?
You know the opening, the opening percussions before the song started, is Sheila E.
Really?
And you know how he found her?
Because she proved it with just emptying water out of some bottles and then she was hitting
it.
She was hitting it.
And that was, can I say riff?
That is a riff for the starting strains before the song proper starts.
Okay, that was Sheila E.
That is interesting.
So I was just wondering, do you think if any good drummer, given anything like Pails, Buckets,
stuff...
Probably can, yeah.
Yeah, you can maybe, as long as it's a different tone or whatever, you can probably create
a rhythm out of it.
Okay.
Yeah, because it's all about rhythm.
So that's a fantastic thing about drumming, huh?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just about anything you can get.
That's why these days there are so many drummers now.
So many.
Yeah.
Yeah, kids, girls, come to the school.
And these days, even despite the fact that the evolution of drumming from acoustic kits
to electronic drums and the use of technology in music, there's still people learning how
to play on skins.
Okay, I have to say this.
I really have to say.
Please do.
Because, okay, learning an instrument, especially drums, right?
It's always best to learn on the acoustic kit.
Okay.
Because the acoustic kit is like an acoustic piano, right?
Acoustic piano, if you are a classical player, if you learn something on acoustic piano,
you need to have a nice piano touch.
If you go on an organ or a keyboard, for example, the difference are really very little.
I knew.
Right.
Acoustic drum is the same thing.
When you hit the snare or hit the tom, you have a right swing and a nice touch.
The tone will be very nice.
That's why you need that movement.
That's why we play on acoustic drum.
But electronic drum, when you hit on it, it's there.
It's synthetic.
Yeah, you don't need to hit.
So my students kept asking me, how come when I come to the studio, I can't play when I
at home, I can play?
Because at home, it's electronic kit.
It make it easier for them to play.
Right.
And when I come to the studio, it's acoustic kit, they have problem.
So the skill sets is different.
Totally different.
Now with the advent, not advent, I can't even say advent these days, man, because even our
government budget giving money for this AI.
Now with AI, isn't that a threat to good drummers like yourself?
I don't know, but the threat has always been there really for a long time, even before
AI.
You have your drum machines and stuff.
Yeah, all the plugins, all the loops and everything.
Sure.
But you think the AI, the sound might sound so authentic to an acoustic drum.
It's already has been there even before AI.
Right.
And has it ever been a threat to guys like you?
It has taken a lot of jobs for recordings, but not life.
Okay.
Because life, you still need a real player to play.
Not unless they just go on program music, right?
But in recording, those days we were recording like nearly every day.
You know, now there's zero recording.
Really?
Zero.
Once in a what?
Blue moon, I would say.
Really?
Wow.
Because the arrangers are having all the plugins and having all these things and they just
program even though they're not drummers, they program as such, the groove is there,
right?
Yeah.
So what do you think about this revolution?
I won't even call it a revolution because the revolution is too good a freaking word
for that.
I don't like AI too, you know, to be honest.
Only damn thing I like is to use my AI to help me come up with good stuff, you know,
in terms of drafts.
Ah, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, the written word, you know, not for replacing a talent, you know, that's something
that I don't appreciate.
I think, yeah, to replace a talent is really a painful thing.
Yeah.
I don't really like it.
You don't like it either.
I don't like it.
Is there anything that it can replace guys like you?
To a certain point, but if it's a live performance, you cannot replace them.
For recording, yeah, they can replace or whatever.
I mean, we have been replaced already, no doubt, but for live, you see, when you go
for a concert or you go and go to a club, like these days, the club, sometimes you don't
see a drummer.
Right.
It's quite sad.
It is very sad.
It's very sad.
It's pathetic actually, right?
So that's the thing.
If you go to a club, you want to see a band, you want to see a real band.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But the club is okay.
I don't know why, maybe budgeting, I don't know.
But if you go to a concert, you must have a drummer.
Yeah, yeah.
So you shouldn't, you cannot replace that.
See, that's a trouble, you see.
And every single person I've spoken with for this tribute show said the same thing.
I for one lament about this and I'm not going to talk so much about it because people get
to watch this episode after episode, hear me say the same damn thing.
And come on, I mean, we don't have that big sound anymore in our local bars and our clubs
and stuff because you're short of how many piece members of a band.
You have two pieces, you have three pieces.
You don't have your five piece at least anymore.
You don't have a drummer, you don't have a bassist.
And you've got guitarist, maybe a keyboard player, maybe a bleeding guy on a cajon sitting
on his backside.
And none of that is not nice.
It is nice, but you miss that big sound that we are so used to in the past.
And I lament about that because these people don't listen now.
Those bars are listening.
The bars are listening, they're bringing bands now.
And then you see the crowd start streaming in because you know why?
It is so unique now these days.
Dennis Fu, we need you back.
Yeah, but there are not many.
Most of the time I listen to friends and musician friends and say, oh, I'm singing here tonight,
another night I'm singing somewhere, another night I'm singing here and there.
There's no more permanent place.
Permanent contract that you're singing.
And then I say, who do you sing with tonight?
I don't know.
Who are you playing with tonight?
I don't know.
Just the pianist or whatever.
So it's quite sad.
It is very sad.
Again, I'm going to say this out loud, Dennis Fu, I'm going to call you back on my show
again, man.
I know, I tell you, you're needed, man.
This country needs you.
Can you please be Superman this time and come out from retirement?
Need his brains.
Yeah, I think so, man.
I think so.
The godfather of the night scene.
What advice would you give to aspiring drummers, Jimmy, especially those in Singapore, hoping
to make a career in music?
Oh, to make a career.
Very hard.
It's very hard now, man.
I mean, I would say it's hard compared to before.
Well, I mean, it's not that it cannot happen.
It can happen as well.
The only thing to say to these new players are to practice more.
After that, when you succeed, stay humble.
I always say that stay humble.
Do not brag.
Yeah.
It's very important, you know, but practice and learn properly.
And keep your ego in check.
Keep your ego behind.
Yeah.
That is the main thing I want to young.
In all these years, how many years have you been playing in total?
After Sec 4, 1975.
Till now.
My first band.
Wow.
My first band.
Okay.
My very first band.
Yeah.
You know who?
Who?
Tony Terry.
Tony Terry and Spencer?
No, Spencer.
Huh?
Before Spencer.
I'm telling you the whole story.
Yeah, please.
Okay.
It was Tony and Terry.
Tony and Terry.
Yeah.
I came out Sec 4 and I came to Sec 4.
I was playing and then I joined Tony and Terry from this agent, old agent called Jimmy Lung.
Yeah.
Okay.
Jesper production.
Right.
So he got me to play with them.
Right.
And they were playing at Jurong bowling alley those days.
Okay.
There was a lounge up there.
Yeah.
Two of them were playing there.
And I being a newbie, new bird, newbie, I had to rehearse with them.
So I actually went there every night, took a cab there every night to rehearse with them
as though I'm performing with them at night.
Free.
Because for me it's practicing.
To learn their...
Wow.
Yeah.
Okay.
From there, Jimmy Lung got us to go to King's Hotel.
Right.
King's Hotel.
There's three of us.
Okay.
Now after King's Hotel, King's Hotel finished, I think three months, then we went to Queen's
Hotel.
Okay.
Then I went to the army.
Well, all this is pre-NS.
Pre-NS.
And after the army, then when I left, then Spencer joined, then they did Tony Terry and
Spencer.
And you never came back with Tony and Terry.
Only much later.
So what happened was Tony Terry Spencer, then they did an album and everything.
Yes, yes.
Right?
Which I have by the way.
You have, right?
Yeah.
Nice album.
And then I was in the army.
Okay.
Then they had this, that time they had this tour around the theaters, like Odeon Theater
and everything.
Sponsored by, I don't know, Wrangler Jeans or Lee Jeans, whatever.
I came out to play with them.
Right.
On a weekend.
Okay.
And I was teaching as well.
So on my army days.
Then when I left the army, then I came out, I joined Western Union Bank.
You were with Western Union?
Yes.
My goodness, you were with Western Union Bank.
Yes.
Western Union Bank.
After Western Union Bank, I went to Europe with the adapters for two years.
Wow.
So it's 50 years.
50 years of doing this.
Anyway, I just want to let the people know, because some of you are too young or you're
not from Singapore, I will tell you.
Who he's talking about, who Jimmy is talking about is Tony Goh.
Shout out to Tony Goh and shout out to Terry Mortimer.
And then of course later on we had Spencer Gohok.
Same.
Well, Spencer has been a while.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
50 years, man.
Yep.
I was freaking five years old when you started.
I'm not that old now.
My number is still the same.
So you see, that's how my journey, of course, during this journey, I was still, I was doing
recording in the daytime with EMI and everything.
With Reggie Verghese.
And I was the producer.
My goodness.
Yeah, so all this time it was day, it was a teaching in the day, aside from recording
and then at night I was gigging.
Any regrets, man?
Any regrets?
No.
I guess that's the only thing I can do, right?
Drums.
No, no, but you're happy.
You've always been happy.
Yeah.
That's what my, one of my students currently at Karawai, he said to me, you know something?
I love your job because what you did was your passion.
Your passion became your job and you, you know, it's something, it's very rare.
Yeah.
Get that.
Yeah, man.
You know, some of them don't like to go to work doing their job.
It's not their passion, but they have to because it's, but yours is different because this
is your passion.
Yeah, man.
That's why he said to me.
Yeah, man.
I mean, yeah.
I mean, it's not a job, man.
It's a vacation, man.
Oh really?
Yeah.
So that's how I move on.
I mean, it's amazing.
I mean, I actually didn't think 50 years.
I thought maybe 40 years doing this, man.
50 years.
Yeah.
And then, you know, Europe came back.
Oh, after, after the debt just came back, that's when I joined Tony Terian Spencer again,
the original back to where you started.
Yeah.
That made Imperial Hotel.
Yeah.
Wow.
The old Imperial Oberoi.
Yeah.
In all those 50 years, everything you've done, what are you most proud of in your career?
Wow.
Most proud of?
Actually I never thought of all this to be honest, Chris.
For me, it's, I just enjoy doing it to play and also to educate whoever I can educate.
Right.
And, but okay, there's one thing I'm proud of is that I brought up quite a number of
good drummers these days, this current time.
Now this time.
Like Clarence.
Yeah.
Clarence is one of them.
Clarence, yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
Aside from that, I have a few very good ones, which are five, four, five, four of them,
if I'm not wrong.
They were kids and now they are like 28, 29.
I want to have my son.
Wow.
Aaron.
Okay.
Aaron James Lee, a great jazz drummer.
I taught him when I was eight years old and now he's 29.
A great jazz drummer.
Wow.
I must say he plays a lot with-
For dad to say that too.
Guitarist.
Yeah.
So he, and then there's this other students of mine, like Davy Tan and he was playing
in a club right now.
And then there's this, you heard of this Orchard Road Boy busking drum before, five years old?
Yeah.
Ethan Ong?
Yeah, sometime ago, wasn't it?
He was my student.
Oh.
So all this came out to be good drummers.
And real nice drumming.
So you're proud of having raised, including your son, and producing great performers and
drummers, great drummers with absolute skillsets.
Yeah.
And these people have skills.
Even two of them, like one of them is Ruben and one of them is Alison, who is a girl.
Very good drummer because they really work on the skills.
His attitude then, as you said.
They put it in front.
And they just practice and they play for church and everything.
It's good drumming.
Last question, Jimmy, before we thank you and say bye-bye.
If you have a message to give, not to drummers, not to aspiring drummers, to people out there,
consumers, Singaporeans, there's anything to do with music and the music scene in Singapore.
But there's one message that you want to give to people in general.
What would that be?
In Singapore.
Yeah, of course, in Singapore's context.
Support local music.
Support the local musicians, I want to say.
Because if you think about it, we musicians are, not everyone, we pay our dues.
We study to practice.
We just don't just get up there and say, I can go and play a piano, I can play drums.
I mean, whatever I say, yes, that's natural.
But you cannot just go there and say earn a good living if you don't work on it.
So I would say support the local musicians as much as you can.
Because we need that support.
Thank you, Jimmy.
I'm going to now switch to my camera and I'm going to say this.
You know, COVID came, people, COVID came and went.
And when COVID arrived to our shores, this term came about.
And it's a real fucked up term.
It's called non-essentials.
I would like to say to you right here, right now, how can it be that people who entertain
you and bring you music be non-essentials?
So please support our local musicians, entertainers, clubs, bars, DJs even.
Support your own people.
Because let me tell you, you've listened to Jimmy's journey and what he's gone through.
These guys put in a lot of work, man, just to make sure you are smiling and have a good
time and tapping away your feet.
Until next time, you've been watching the Chris Hansen conversation in my tribute to
Singapore's local music icons.
And we've had Jimmy Lee, he's a dynamite drummer.
And watch out for us next week.
We've got the hit honcho of Singapore's pro wrestling company called Grapple Max, Greg
Ho.
Catch you then.
Stay safe.
Mmmmm.