Blachan to us, even to the Eurasians, this is our MSG.
Seriously.
But you don't lose your hair.
You don't lose your hair. You gain weight.
Well that's better than losing your hair.
It's better for you to look fat than to look bald.
We all have a relationship with food.
Ever since the day we were born, every human being has a relationship with food.
It's either you eat to live or live to eat.
And you know, for a fact, there are a lot of us who really live to eat sometimes because we really love food so much.
But this particular guest of mine I've got in the studio, she is, I don't know, I've got to find out.
Does she eat to live or live to eat?
Because at the end of the day, she makes sure that you have a great time eating.
And we've had, in this particular season on the I Love My Job series,
the world's youngest chef award winner,
and for the first time a Singaporean actually won that, and an Asian chef, Ian Tan, he was here.
But that's really fine dining.
Today I have someone also in fine dining, but specializing in private home fine dining with Peranakan cuisine.
And Peranakan cuisine is like, whoa, the bomb.
I have with me in studio Bibi Lili. Welcome to the show Bibi Lili.
Hey, thanks Chris.
No, thank you for being here.
I want to ask you why Peranakan?
First of all, let's tell us, tell everybody, what is Peranakan cuisine?
What is Peranakan cuisine?
Actually, I think it's important to know what is Peranakan.
Yeah, let's go there.
Right?
So Peranakan itself, we are considered the straights-
Straights-born.
Yeah, the straights-born, right? Locally born.
So we are usually the traders from China or even from India.
And then they come through the straights of Malacca and even like Penang area.
And then they settle down.
And intermarried.
And intermarried. And then there's a fusion of culture and food and ingredients and stuff like that.
And that's how the Peranakan cuisine comes about.
Right. So like the Indian version, they got the Chetti Malacans.
Yeah, you got the Chetti Malacans.
Right there, we also got Peranakans.
Exactly. Exactly. Then you have the Chinese one.
So I think more people are more familiar or they tend to regard the Peranakans as the straights-Chinese.
But we also have the Chetti Malacans.
Sure. I am Eurasian. But I'm raised Peranakan.
My mom is pure Peranakan.
And I've been raised on Peranakan cuisine.
And I'm hoping the opportunity to really bring this out into the open.
And also to bring Peranakan culture and Peranakan cuisine out to the open.
But this is the I Love My Job series.
So it will also be interesting for people to know how someone like you have transitioned into what you do today.
But before we go there, what's your earliest memory where food is concerned?
My earliest, earliest memory.
Yeah. You and your relationship with food.
Okay. Actually my mom said I'm a very fussy kid.
Like I would only eat chicken rice, white chicken.
Which is just the chicken thigh and cannot be chopped.
Cannot be chopped.
Yeah. I must like rip it off like that.
Talk about fine dining man. Okay.
And fishball noodle.
But I always have to have it with Tan Hun.
And I always said only fishball with rubber band.
That's what I always used to call it.
That's the transparent rubber band.
Yeah. The transparent rubber band.
Okay.
And after that, I think slowly, you know, I love prata and chicken wing.
And then going out, you know, every time you walk home, you can smell the food that your grandmother is cooking.
And there's always something very easy for the kids.
Right.
You know, and it's always like corned beef or something like that.
But that's okay. That's your relationship with food.
So that's my relationship.
As a consumer, like many of us, right?
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Is anybody out there on a freaking planet?
But the point is, is that-
When did I start cooking?
In the kitchen.
Ah.
Was there an influence for you?
Definitely. Okay.
So I tell this to all my guests who comes to my house for private dining.
Okay.
Like how I started cooking.
Right.
Is I was very naughty girl.
I didn't do well with my studies.
Okay.
I don't like to study.
Right.
Okay. But I like to hang around in the kitchen.
I mean, I mean, actually.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.
I mean, it's a normal kid, right?
Yeah.
I mean, like me, I mean, I can't say I love to study.
I mean, who the hell does that?
Okay.
There are those who do.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Fine. Fine. There are those who do.
But I mean, most kids who would say that would say,
I wouldn't be hanging around the freaking kitchen.
They'd be somewhere gallivanting or something.
Going to watch a movie or something.
I'm not allowed to gallivant at five years old.
Okay. You're going as far back as five.
Okay.
But you know, like in a very typical Peranakan household,
it's not like one, my grandma is the one who does most of the cooking.
Okay.
Okay. My mom is the one who helps out.
Right.
Right. But it's not, but because like back then,
family are like, you have different aunties that comes together
and each one bring their own specialty dish.
Right. But there's also a time when they gather in the kitchen
and they gossip.
Okay.
Right.
So typical Peranakan style.
Very typical, right?
So you talk about this neighbor, that neighbor, whatever.
And all the gossip comes out.
Yeah. All the gossip comes out.
But I mean, me, I mean, being five years old,
I have no idea what they're talking about,
but I love being there because you hear the different noises,
the energy, you smell the different stuff.
And of course, if you're just sitting there not doing anything,
they'll make you do work.
Right. But when Peranakans cook in the kitchen,
there's this thing we always say,
the wangyi, the fragrance, the cooking fragrance.
And it's so marvelous, isn't it?
Yes.
Even if it's a mishmash of different dishes being cooked at the same time,
that fragrance, that wangyi is so amazing.
Yeah. And you know, talking about wangyi,
it brings back that memory.
You know, like, and I find that you don't get that now anymore.
Like, you know, when you come home from school,
you walk past the neighbor's house and then you smell the food.
Right.
And then you know, oh, it's dinner time because the smell,
not everyone's cooking, you know.
You don't get that anymore.
Really?
Don't you find that?
Well, I don't know, man. In my neighborhood, I do.
Oh.
I mean, I got great neighbors. I've got Malay neighbors.
Wonderful.
And sometimes when they cook dinner, right,
I tell you, I come back home, I go, oh, mm.
What they're having, man.
I mean, there's still this thing, you know, I mean, Malay homes.
Malay homes.
Yes. Yes.
Well, of course, my mom's household,
when I used to live with her, you know, before I got married,
coming back home, it's like, oh, wow, the smell.
Right.
On Saturday, on Saturdays, especially when you're at home
and you're in school, right, you know, school on that day,
as a kid, you know, or even throughout my teens,
and you can see mom is preparing something in the kitchen
and is driving me up the wall, man.
And just that simple fried fish with turmeric and your high wha.
And all you can think about is, eh, garing, not the fish.
Is it crispy? Like garing means crispy.
Yeah.
And yeah, it's so marvelous.
So, okay, you started in the kitchen.
There were a lot of BBs around, I suppose.
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Your grandma, your mom, and probably some other ladies as well.
Yes, correct.
Okay. Okay.
And I think that's how it all started.
And then you started what, prepping in the kitchen and stuff.
Yeah, they gave me the tumbuk.
It's like, do your work.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Which brings me to this part here.
I mean, there's a reason why I've got this T-shirt on.
It says, Belacan Gila.
Hey, I want this T-shirt.
Well, actually someone gave it to me, actually.
It's very, it's very...
I've got to go find out where that person got this from.
Yeah, it's pretty comfortable too, this T-shirt.
But Belacan Gila, let's talk about Belacan.
Belacan, according to my late dad, my late dad said the English name for Belacan is Malacan cheese.
Actually, there's Belacan not just in the Malacca.
It's like, Southeast Asia itself has their own version of Belacan.
Okay.
Yeah, but yes, we do, you can pretty much call it cheese.
But every time people go to Malacca, I mean, look, I remember even, you know, for Peranakans, right?
If someone says, hey, besok gua ma pergi Belacan.
That means tomorrow I'm going to Malacca, right?
And they'll say, hey, boleh beli Belacan.
Yeah.
Okay.
So ask them to buy Belacan back for them, right?
So Malacca is still the go-to place for Belacan.
Where else in Southeast Asia do we find Belacan?
You can definitely, well, good question.
I mean, a lot of it comes from Indonesia as well now and from Penang as well.
Okay.
And then if you go to Thailand, there's a lot of Belacan there too as well.
But of course they call it Kapi, you know, G-A-P-I or K-A-P-I.
Right.
Yeah. But we all have very similar ingredients.
Yeah. But for the Peranakan people, I mean, for people in Peranakan households,
it is unheard of to have rice without any Belacan, man.
The sambal Belacan, yeah, you need to have it.
Like, I think my fridge is filled with-
Well, you were so specific about that.
I said Belacan and you said sambal Belacan.
You were correcting me basically.
So, okay, fuck me.
Chris, you got school.
So it is about, it is called sambal Belacan.
Yeah.
Okay, okay. Fair.
Fair point. And it becomes sambal Belacan.
How? We have the mortar and pestle.
Yeah.
Right. We call it tumbo.
Yeah.
And then there's this part where you pound it and you throw salt in it and then you squeeze lime in it.
Yeah.
And then you add some chili in it.
Yeah.
And then you pound it.
Then there's the other version where people don't have much time or a younger modern generation,
I would think, would have a blender and they chuck it all in the blender.
Now between the two, because I'm Belacan Gila, which I know which one I like.
But since you are the expert here on this cuisine, just tell us which would be the ideal kind of Belacan, sambal Belacan to have on our dishes.
You mean between the tumbo and the blender?
Yeah, between the tumbo and the blender.
I think anyone who loves their sambal Belacan, we say the tumbo one is the best, right?
Right.
But in reality, ideally to make it conveniently is with the blender.
Yeah, well sure. Ideally.
But in terms of taste profile.
But you want taste profile, then it's definitely the tumbo. Okay?
Because I know you're going to ask why, right?
I wonder how she do. I'm going to ask why.
Obviously.
I mean, if you think about it, when you're smashing the ingredients, like every single ingredient, we don't put everything into one vessel and you start pounding away.
You put one ingredient after another.
Right.
So you put in like the lime leaf and you whack it.
And when you whack it and it's grinding on the stone, you're actually releasing the natural aroma, the essential oil of the lime and everything.
Essential oil, is that?
Yeah, it is.
But when you blend it, but blending it doesn't, I mean, okay, what's the difference?
You pound it, sure, I can understand logically. Oils will come out.
You can smell it.
But when you blend it, doesn't the oils come out too?
It's cutting it. So you're actually releasing liquid, like water.
So you'll find that when you blend, it's more watery.
You know, the onion and everything is more watery.
But when you pound, it's different.
You release aroma. That's why when you smell the after, you can try.
You blend with blender and you pound and you smell.
There's a big difference.
Really? Yeah.
Okay. Now, the only difference I can sense in this is because now I know when I go to my neighborhood to char stall and I ask for blacchan,
it comes out two ways.
One, it is red, really red.
Two, it's wet.
Wait, bright red or dark red?
Uh, bright, kind of dark red, but more to the bright side.
And it's watery.
Yeah. So that's blended.
Yeah, it can be blended.
And it's more chilly in that thing.
Yeah, sometimes it's more chilly.
So, okay, so it seems to me that the Chinese actually prefer to have their blacchan that way.
I can't say whether it's safe to say that.
No, I don't think so.
I think it's a very, it's a perspective thing.
I think like, if you're talking about you're going to eat at a zi char and then you get the blacchan,
do you really think they made it themselves?
No, they bought it.
Yeah.
So whoever bought it mass produced also must blend.
So it comes from a mass produced central kitchen.
So obviously the recipe and everything is a little different.
Now she's making me look like a stupid idiot.
Okay.
Sure, sure, sure.
But not to say that there's no good ones, there are really good ones out there.
Okay.
But when you want to talk about like really cooking at home, you know, the little things that matters,
makes a difference.
Yeah, because there's this, even in terms of texture, when you pound it, the texture is a lot better.
I mean, it feels better on your palate, in your mouth, as you chew away.
But Pahranakans believe that you should have more blacchan than you do, you know, chili.
You must have the taste of the blacchan.
In sambal blacchan.
But you cannot be too much.
It has to be a balance.
So, and I think every household is different.
Okay.
Right.
Their preference.
I have come across some people who make the sambal blacchan, they don't toast the blacchan.
They don't must?
They don't toast the blacchan.
Okay.
Because we always say we have to toast it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right?
But they do it when they don't toast the blacchan.
So it becomes like too strong and too smelly in that sense, you know.
But when you toast it, it's still the smell.
Yeah.
But there's a very different aroma.
So, you know, the thing about blacchan, we have so many.
Blacchan to us, even to the Eurasians, you know, the cuisine, this is our MSG.
Seriously.
But you don't lose your hair.
You don't lose your hair.
You lose, you gain weight.
Well, that's better than losing your hair.
It's better for you to look fat than to look bald.
Okay.
Fine.
You know, this is our flavoring.
I don't just put it in my sambal.
I put my, I put blacchan in almost all my dishes for taste profile, for my saltiness.
I mean, come on, come on.
If you are, I mean, you are definitely in private fine dining for Peranakan food.
Private dining.
Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.
I rephrased again.
See, I can again.
Private dining with Peranakan food.
And if you have no blacchan, I tell you something, something is very wrong somewhere.
Something is wrong.
Okay.
There has got to be blacchan.
There has to be blacchan.
So the different cultures, it seems that there are different styles of blacchan.
The Peranakans, I've already mentioned, in my mom's household, she will always, you know,
they say teguh.
Teguh means she'll always like make a comment that's not so nice.
Like, hey, blacchan, I tell you, we Peranakan, we eat blacchan, we must taste the blacchan,
not the chili, okay.
You go elsewhere, you always taste the chili, not so much the blacchan, okay.
That's salah already.
That's wrong.
Wrong.
Yeah.
So yeah, yeah.
I always, I always have that in my system.
There's got to be more taste of the blacchan in your sambal blacchan.
Then it would be, you should eat it with chili.
Yeah, yeah.
I have to taste it.
But there needs to be a fine balance.
It cannot be too much.
You get what I mean?
There needs to be a balance.
No matter what I mean, like in any cuisine, any food that we have, there's got to be some
kind of balance.
We've got to strike somewhere, right?
Yeah.
But the Eurasians, how different do you think their blacchans are like?
I think it's quite similar, but having said that, I think I have come across a few of
their version.
Right.
I'm not saying every household has, does it that way, that they don't use fresh chili.
They use dry chili.
So I have come across where they use dry chili, the blacchan, you know, and then a little
bit of the garam, the salt, and that's it.
And just squeeze of lime.
So that was interesting for me.
But the taste is a little bit deeper.
Right.
Yeah, a little bit smokier.
Smokier and deeper.
I mean, all you Eurasian people, we are quite smoky.
And we're quite deep too.
All right, Sandra Galliston, who, you know, the founder of the person who started this
wonderful thing called Eurasians International.
Yes, yes, I'm part of that group.
Oh, you're part of that group?
I don't know what she's doing in that group.
But anyway, it's okay.
We are very nice people.
No one's going to boot you out.
But I'm also a Pranakan anyway, you know, so I have the, I enjoy all kinds of cultures,
man.
And so, you know, any Eurasian people out there, you know, starting out to you guys,
including the Pranakan sellers, what you think, put a comment, let us know.
Yeah.
What you think would be the difference in your sambal belacan, you know, as opposed
to maybe what we have just said so far.
Okay.
Let's just go past sambal belacan right now.
Let's move on a little bit.
You started British Kitchen and what we've got for you right now, we're going to flash
it on the screen.
Kai, can you put up that one?
Okay, British Kitchen menu and, hello, hello, hello.
That's the one.
And there you go.
Okay.
Now this is your April menu.
I'm pretty sure it's outdated at this time, kinda.
Yup, it is.
And as you can see- But it changes, it changes.
It's not always a fixed menu.
Okay.
And I'm pretty glad to say that I took your prices out of that image as well.
Thank you.
I mean, I'm not going to- But I'm not an expensive guy.
I'm very competitive.
She's not expensive.
It's just not very nice to be able to put your prices up, right?
And that menu is out there and I see that you do also allow self-collection as well
as delivery?
Yes.
So I work two ways.
On days when I don't have private dining, I have what we call the tongpang menu or the
tapau menu.
Okay.
Right?
So these are people who just want to host at home and stuff like that and they just
have smaller portions and just want to order a few dishes rather than a spread.
Okay.
So what happened is I'll cook for that day for whoever orders and then they will come
to my place for self-collection or I'll just call for like lala moon for something and
send it to them.
But if you do something like this, right?
And people call you like maybe on a daily basis or ask you to try to place orders?
No, it has to be like a few days in advance.
So you've got to take advance orders.
Yeah, it's all advance orders.
Because you know, Peranakan culture is such that everything is so finely detailed, not
just in terms of its cuisine, but everything that we have basically.
Yeah.
I mean, if we look at Peranakan culture, when we talk about things like as simple as the
outfits, even the sarong kabaya, and then you've got to have the croissant, right?
Yeah.
And it's also intricate, you know, including the jewelry they wear is intan, it's gold
wavings, but there's a craftsmanship in, you know, in crafting designs on these things.
It's always so fine and kasut manik, the beaded sandals and the designs on it and how tiny
and intricate it would be.
Very intricate.
Very, very intricate little beads that you sew into a fat sheet of cloth.
My mom used to do that for some time.
She did very good.
She has done very, very good kasut manik potong and all that.
Wow.
Until we told her to tell her to stop because she was losing eyesight, man.
That's a long time ago.
So it's everything to me in Peranakan culture is they're just so into the details and cooking.
I mean, fuck that.
We talk about cooking.
I mean, Peranakan dishes is so finite in terms of, you know, hey, we're going to put this
in there, we're going to put that in there, we're going to put that in there, we're going
to put this, you know, and the preparation time.
So when you take orders like that, it got to be advanced.
Yes, it has to be advanced.
It's got to be a killer, man.
You're doing all these things.
Yeah.
And then you're doing it yourself.
Yeah, I'm doing it myself.
So you can imagine like my menu just now you saw is probably about eight or nine dishes.
Yeah, that's quite a lot actually.
So I'm actually doing this all on my own.
Oh, fuck me.
You must be a bit local.
Quite local.
Yeah, I'm not a bit okay.
Quite local.
Not a bit local.
Quite local.
Yeah, I mean, since we're talking about details, I know for a fact, because my poor mom and
my goodness, we cannot do without this, especially during our Chinese New Year.
Sometimes she goes extra distance.
She makes sure that we have it during Christmas as well as Chinese New Year.
And that would be, can't get rid of the flash, those buggers up.
Buakalua.
Yes.
Yeah.
Here we go.
Leave that picture there.
Now, Buakalua, can you tell everyone here for the uninitiated, poor thing, you people
don't know what the hell you've just missed or you've been missing, man.
Buakalua, can you tell everyone what is Buakalua?
Okay.
So this is the Queen essential dish for the Eurasians and the Peranakan.
Hell yeah.
Like we need it on every single table and we will compare it to every single family
or every restaurant that we visit.
Oh yeah, we'll compare like shit.
We are so judgmental, I tell you.
Terrible, man.
Terrible.
The minute we sit down, the food comes, we already look at it.
All the pops going through.
Like, hmm, look at the texture.
I go to any Peranakan house, they say, oh, go Buakalua.
Oh, thank you so very much, Buakalua.
Then we're like, why is this one so red?
Why is this one so black?
Why is this one so much oil?
Yeah, man.
I mean, okay.
So can you tell everyone what is this thing, Buakalua?
Okay, so this is a black nut.
I'll call it our black go or our black truffle of Southeast Asia.
Oh, black truffle, man.
I'd rather have this anytime, okay.
So the flavor is a little quite earthy.
Earthy?
Yeah.
That's one way of describing it.
I never thought of it that way.
I find it's the texture a bit pate-ish, a bit earthy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're right.
But this is actually a poisonous nut.
It's a seed from a plant.
And I cannot pronounce the name.
So maybe Kai, you want to Google what fruit does this come from?
Well, that was a very fast Google, Kai.
Okay.
I think he was Googling also.
Like what is this?
I never eat before.
Panjim adule tree.
What the flying, what the hell?
Kai, can you pronounce that shit?
Nope.
No, I know there's a Malay word for it.
Kai, what's the Malay word for it, Kai?
I don't think you should ask me.
I'm not an official Malay.
Oh my goodness, man.
Okay.
So anyway, okay.
So whenever I tell this story to my customers, right, that's something that astounds me.
This nut is known to be poisonous.
It has the seed itself is poisonous.
It has cyanide.
So my mom's been trying to poison me for a long time.
But somehow they already cracked the code of how to leech out the poison and make it edible, right?
Right.
And I always wonder how did they even find this out?
Okay.
So the ones that we get in Singapore are usually from Indonesia.
Right.
And what they do is that they actually boil it and then they keep it in ashes or underground
for about 40 days or two months or something for the fermentation process to go out of the water.
And apparently the poison is leeched out already by then.
So what we receive in Singapore, the nuts has already been processed.
Right.
But because it's in ashes and everything, right, I think it becomes very dirty.
But also we continue cleaning it.
And for different families, does it differently.
Sometimes we do it for three days, some do it five days, some a week, some one month.
Okay.
They soak it in water and they change it every single day, twice a day.
By the way, in the morning we'll wash it, we'll scrub it, and then we'll change the water.
And then the evening we'll do it again.
Yeah.
We'll probably be sitting down or sitting down on a very low, low stool in a toilet with a bucket and then cleaning it.
So this is like every day I'm going like, oh yeah, I've got buckler wad to do.
So that is my errand.
It's a pain in the ass.
Damn painful.
Right.
So after doing, soaking it for five days or whatsoever, you let it dry in the sun for a bit.
Then after that, you got to take your tumbo or in your scissors to whack the, there's a little mouth opening where the nut is.
Right.
To open up, then you got to knock out the hard shell and take it and take out the meat inside.
Right.
Now, because of the fermentation process, there are times in the old days, if you buy a packet of 50 buckler wad, maybe 20 are spoiled.
Yeah.
So your ROI is not that great.
Yeah.
So I think your mom would say.
My mom used to complain about stuff like that.
Yeah.
Like, you know, there are days when this year the buckler not so good.
I'm going to tell you a complaint to the guy.
You know, why is it that I buy so many from you, but so few I can cook.
The rest are spoiled.
Yeah, exactly.
And you know, when you have the spoiled one, the whole house stinks.
Stinks.
But nowadays, if you have a good supplier, your ROI is better.
So you dig it out and every family does this differently.
My grandma, she likes to like mash it.
Right.
And then mix it with minced meat and stuff it back in.
Right.
Which is quite typical actually for most households.
You know, for more mileage, right?
But for my style is no, it's pure buckler wad.
So I'll dig it out, mash it and stuff it back in.
Okay.
But in fact, I'll overstuff it.
So actually I have more than expected.
And my gravy is rich, like gao gao.
More best.
Because I add some more meat, more of the buckler wad meat into the rempah.
Best.
Yeah.
So that is like really rich.
So yeah.
Well, as I say, yes.
So you cook it with either this ayam buckler wad with chicken or pork, right?
Yeah.
So I have different requests.
Usually it's with chicken, right?
But I do like yesterday actually.
In fact, I have a Eurasian customer who went like, can you do it with Babi Kaki?
What?
Yeah.
With pork trotter.
My goodness.
Always the Eurasian friend who called me will ask me for pork.
Really?
Yeah.
They know I don't want chicken.
So for them, maybe their buckler version, they prefer it with pork.
They love it with pork.
Yeah.
I've never done it with pork.
I've always been ayam buckler.
Oh, but with pork, I tell you, it's so rich.
Yeah.
It's so rich, but it's so good.
Yeah.
Sounds like gout coming, man.
Okay.
So there's this thing, but you see the strange thing about me, don't get me wrong.
I love ayam buckler.
Not as much as my sister does.
My sister goes gaga over buckler.
My wife as well.
But for me, I actually prefer the sambal buckler.
The sambal itself with the buckler wad.
You know, basically you de-shelled it.
Yeah.
And then you just keep it.
I'll just boil up your rice.
Yeah.
You know, then you just imagine you put that, then you put my mother's kumri for that.
No?
I put buckler, then I put bachan, sambal bachan, then I gau.
That's what I do.
But she said you shouldn't, you should like, you know, have it separately.
No la.
For me, I had like, I think everyone has that ritual, right?
It's like chicken rice, whether you put your dark sauce first, your ginger sauce.
Your tau yu, then your ginger.
So my way is I dig out all the meat, then I'll add a dollop of the sambal bachan, then I
mix, mix, mix.
Like, eat it right.
Another la.
Yeah, that was, I love it that way.
No, no, no, best.
Actually I prefer that because I'm lazy as shit, you know.
You can see the amount of work, even from the, now that you've mentioned the story about
how it's done from the plantation, where they try to, you know, leach out the cyanide
in content inside the fruit, right, or the nut.
And then the effort of doing that and it spends days.
Then after that cleaning and damn thing, you know, soaking it and then cleaning it and
then taking it out and cooking it, putting it back in the shell.
And then when it comes to you on your plate and then you dig it out too, it's work la.
It's a lot of work.
It's a lot of freaking hard work man.
It's a lot of work.
So it's crazy, you know, when you walk in, when I don't want to go to a Paranakan restaurant
because my mom is pure Paranakan.
So when I, when my sister and I, we just go tak heran, you know.
The term is to tak heran.
It's so strange.
We just, heran means strange.
It's so strange man, because we know what we're getting.
We know the quality that's needed at least by our own household standards, right?
So, so we don't go to a Paranakan restaurant.
And then when you order from a home chef or when you eat from someone's home, you know,
you know, you know, that person is very generous, right?
But if you eat at a restaurant, sometimes like, you know, so delicious.
You end up with food, you end up like half failed.
No, you know, you pay so much money for a small bowl of ayam buakulah.
And then you probably have two.
We call it two biji.
Yeah.
Two ni two biji of bloody buakulah inside.
Were you kidding me?
Small biji lah.
But I go to my mom's place, right?
We just talk about sambal buakulah alone.
Ta apa weh, this high la.
Fill up to the brim la.
You know, all the work, the blood, sweat and tears that my mom puts in just to do that, right?
Man, I mean, I mean, it comes to, to Paranakan cuisine.
It says these days, I'm missing it.
My mom had multiple strokes and in recent times, and I'm really missing the food.
I can say, no problem.
Don't worry.
Knock into my mic anytime you're lying.
It doesn't sound right.
Okay.
Moving on.
Let's talk about, let's talk about moving from where you were working.
And I know I met you decades ago when you were working for a catering company.
Yeah, that's right.
And then you decided to make the shift to what you're doing right now, which is private dining and all the Paranakan food.
So why the transition?
Wow.
I think when I left employment, right?
I was doing a lot of things.
You know, I think I just trying to work things out.
Like I had done events.
I was in like real estate and all this, all these things, right?
But never really stuck to it in a sense.
But I think like food has like the work that I've done, even in events and stuff, I was even doing food events.
So I think there's this commonality that I'm always around food, right?
So basically you've always been like what?
You're overweighted more in your career so far on FMB.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
A lot, a lot more.
And also I tend to cook a lot.
I love cooking, right?
And then I was, I always hosting friends and stuff.
And I started private dining like 10 years ago.
But back then, I wasn't really doing Paranakan.
I was just doing whatever I know how to cook.
Just tell me what were they, man?
I don't know.
I was like, I was doing like paella night.
Yeah, things like this.
Yeah.
Then I was like trying to do like some silly fusion of like whimsical Paranakan food sort of thing.
You know, like rendang tart or something.
That sort of weird shit.
It's not weird shit, you know, because you know what I was saying just now, right?
One of my guests, Chef Ian Tan, the young guy, he is so wonderful.
He actually created a dish for my podcast and called it the CHC salad.
Okay.
And he won based on a Paranakan dish that he fused.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
He won that and he beat everybody in Monaco.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wonderful, really.
And he, it's, I think Paranakan food, even for the uninitiated, once they try it for
the first time, they're going to love it.
The taste profiles are just exploding.
Your flavor profiles exploding in your mouth.
Exactly.
And I think, you know, when you really look at Paranakan food, Paranakan food is like
the creole of Southeast Asia.
The creole?
Yeah.
Wow.
You know?
Wow.
I'm not going to put it this way.
Okay.
That's interesting.
I've never looked at it that way.
So when you, again, coming back, you were working, you moved to this and I think social
circles got you, you're cooking for social circles.
I was cooking for social circles.
I was cooking a lot.
I was like trying different stuff just to see, you know, how this goes.
And then, but it was really just because I enjoy hosting.
It helped when back then I was renting this black and white house.
So it was a perfect place.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
It was a perfect place for hosting.
Yeah.
So sure.
Yeah.
Then it came to a point that friends were bringing their own friends.
And I'm like, well, but if I say, if I say, really if I say one, but at least there are
a few people who are I say, I went like, I think we should start paying you.
You think?
Okay.
And people started paying you.
Then people started paying me.
Okay.
And I wanted to, but I didn't want to put a price to it because I wanted to know how
good it is.
So I said-
So you didn't set your own value or let them set the value.
Let them value me.
Okay.
Right.
But as things moved along, I'm like, why am I trying to pursue cooking Ang Mo food?
That's not me.
Okay.
You know what I mean?
Like, who am I?
What is it that really drove me to cooking?
And I also remember like my first memory of how I was like really cooking Peranakan food
was actually when I was living in Australia.
Okay.
Yeah.
So when I was like living in Australia and back then, everything was IDD call.
Remember that?
Yeah.
Freaking expensive.
I used to call my mom, Hey mom, how you cook rendang?
How you cook this?
In Australia, Peranakan food, you're trying it out there.
Because I was craving for it.
Okay.
Food is for yourself.
Yeah.
It was for myself, but of course I got housemaid, dorm mates and stuff.
Right.
Sure.
You know?
And I tell you my phone bill caused the flight going back to Singapore man.
Oh my goodness.
Just to find out about how to cook this, how to cook that.
Just how to cook certain dishes.
So obviously that I think that is my initial spark.
Right.
Of wanting to cook more of Peranakan food.
Wait a sec.
Let me just go back a little bit.
So you started cooking, okay, for friends.
And then of course in Australia, you were exploring more into your culture.
Yeah.
So you were exploring Peranakan dishes, right?
But when you were working during those days in the F&B arena, were you ever in the kitchen?
No.
I was in front of house.
I was doing a lot of operational events.
So you've never been back at house?
I've never been back at house.
I'm all self-taught.
And then, f**k it hell, then you start your own F&B thing at home without having had any
experience at all in the kitchen of any establishment you work for.
But having worked with F&B, you tend to see what the back of house people do.
You tend to communicate a lot with them as well.
Yeah, but you need to understand.
But if you work the back of house and you worked in front of house and you have all
of that encompassed, right?
I mean, did it help you to plan, say, your COF, cost of food, COG, cost of goods in your
current business?
Did it help you?
It did.
Because being in F&B for so long and also having run restaurants, I had to look at-
Oh, you ran restaurants?
Yeah.
Not my own restaurant.
Yeah, but you ran restaurants.
Yeah.
So I do need to have an understanding of cost of goods and sales.
Ah, that explains some things.
So those are things that I-
How critical do you think that is?
Very critical.
Yeah.
Because you know, I mean, I've dabbled.
I don't really want to talk so much about that period of my life because it was such
a disappointment, but I've dabbled in F&B.
And then when you start to do menu planning and you start to do even your fucking drink
list for the bar, man, it drives you up the wall because you've got to calculate cost
of water in your cocktail.
Yep.
Simple syrup, right?
Cost of that and how many parts and you've got to divide it all that shit and all that.
Then come up to your entire cost of that particular cocktail.
And then you think about your markups to make a profit.
Yeah.
I mean, all this is so difficult to do.
Yep.
You know, Joe, drive a rocket scientist mad.
So is it critical really for anyone contemplating to really delve into the F&B arena, even if
it's private dining at home?
Yeah.
I think it's very important to put certain, how should I say, structure in any business
that you start, right?
Sure.
You cannot just like, oh, I have this idea of great chong.
And then that's it.
That sounds like me.
Okay.
You do need to have some thoughts and do some calculation.
I mean, my prices has changed like over the years because of food prices and stuff like
that.
Efficientary costs.
So you need to do that.
In a very typical restaurant, your food costs should be around, in the past, should be like
25% or below, right?
Yeah.
Your food costs.
Okay.
But of course, because of the rising costs of a lot of things and also people's appetite
of whether I'm willing to pay that much.
Sometimes I have come across restaurants, they'll go around 30 to 40%, but that's a
very dangerous line that they're working with.
Because they have other overheads, staffing, renter and everything.
Now in private dining, I think like for myself, I do dare to take the risk to be at around
that 30, 40% because I don't have a renter to pay.
And you don't have staff?
I don't have staff.
You mean you're handling this all by yourself?
The only time I have staff is during private dining, I will hire a part-time helper to
come and clean up the house for me.
And I also hire someone to help me to assist me in the kitchen.
Okay.
But that cost is very minimal for me.
It's negligible.
It's negligible, you know, but I mean, if I add that, then it becomes like 50 to 60%
of my overall cost.
Right.
Including the food costs.
Right.
And the menu is also very important.
Okay.
Like you don't want to be like slamming all the expensive ingredients in everything as
well.
But then the beauty of Peranakan food, I think like of our Southeast Asian food is we make
great food out of the cheapest things.
Okay.
Like think about it.
Like if you make a rendang, you use the toughest cut of the meat.
You do?
Can we flash rendang on the screen please, Kai?
Hey, it cannot be you using rib eye, right?
No, no.
I mean, call me an idiot, man.
I mean, I'm useless in the freaking kitchen.
Okay.
So rendang, you use the toughest part of the cut.
Yeah.
You use the shin.
I mean, shin is not cheap anymore.
Or you use brisket or you use charred meat, you know, there's a lot of muscles and tendons.
Yeah, yeah.
That's what you need because rendang means slow cook.
You need to cook it long enough.
Until it's tender.
All the sinews and tendons.
Yeah, everything melts away when you're very jelly-like that time, you know?
So those are things that you are making.
And really our components of our rempah are all cheap ingredients.
What the fuck, when I go buy rendang at say a nasi padang stall, it always costs so much.
It's the labor.
So, okay, but it's slow cooked.
It's slow cooked, but you-
This is the labor.
It's for the freaking cooker, man.
No way, man.
Not the cook, the cooker.
But you know what's the irony?
You complain about paying for a rendang that takes so long to cook.
All the gas and all the stomp, and all the effort.
I struggle to cord.
But we are willing to pay $30, $40 for a piece of steak that's just been grilled.
That is an expensive part of the cow, man.
Come on, man.
They're not talking about taking it out for the shin.
I'm only kidding.
I'm just being an asshole, okay?
Yeah, okay, fine, fine.
It's so fucking expensive.
But you just told me it's the cheap stuff that you got to use to cook this up, man.
No, I mean, you can, right?
But at the end of the day, you still also need to calculate how many hours are you putting in.
Okay.
So let's say, for example, you're cooking up rendang.
How long does it take to do that?
Well, just this dish alone.
To make the rempah and everything, one hour.
Yeah, the whole thing, yeah.
To cook the whole dish, six hours.
Okay.
Yeah.
All right, moving on.
Since we're talking about food right now, and I'm getting fucking hungry.
Can we flash up that wonderful, the wonderful asam pedas.
Ayoooo.
Ahhhhh.
I missed that.
Okay.
Wait, you like the lemak type or you like the asam type?
Can I have both?
Asam and lemak.
That's not.
Can I?
How would you describe the taste or flavor profiles of asam pedas?
For the uninitiated, again.
Okay, so asam is obviously the sour.
Yes.
Pedas is spicy.
Yeah.
Sour is spicy.
Remember that.
Yeah.
But it has to hit the right note, right?
So you need to have that balance of the sourness, then the spiciness comes in, then you have
a bit of the salty and the sweetness all come in together.
And then when you eat, right, you just want to eat some more.
So sourness, salty.
So you must always have the balance of four S's.
Yeah.
I like balancing four S's.
Normally you don't have, I don't have that kind of opportunity with four S's to balance,
but.
In food, you have.
S's, four S's.
I mean, food, taste.
What are you thinking?
Okay.
What are you thinking?
Four S's, salty, spicy, sour and?
Sweet.
Of course, sweet.
Yeah.
Okay.
So you know, Padas has got these four favorite profiles all in one, right?
Yeah.
And then how would you actually describe in English, you and I both know what this means,
right?
Lama.
So how would you describe lama in English?
Lama I would say is rich.
Rich.
Yeah.
So lama is this rich taste.
Yeah.
Okay.
But when we say lama in Asia or rather here, okay, in Singapore or even Malaysia, we are
looking at lama means we normally would think what conscious in our heads would be coconut
milk.
Yeah.
Right.
But in Western cuisine, richness doesn't usually come from coconut milk.
No.
So don't you think that the term lama will actually have, would lean more towards richness
made by, caused by, affected by?
Fat.
Plus some fat.
Okay.
I wouldn't say coconut milk.
Fat.
But in Asia, not really what we don't really make our cuisine, even doesn't matter where
the pranakan otherwise that make it, we make it rich because of, of, of fat.
Yeah.
But we don't want, don't we?
It's more coconut milk.
But it's the flavor, the, the, the fruit, the filling of it when you put it in your mouth.
Correct.
It's more coconut milk, isn't it?
Not really fat.
No, no, not at all.
Yeah.
But there is high fat content in coconut milk.
Is there?
Yeah.
Okay.
Here you go, Chris, you need it.
Right.
Okay.
I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I just really know because, because richness, lama, right,
richness, right.
And if it's, if it's a Western cuisine kind of thing, the Ang Mo's would prefer, would
they put what, milk, cream, milk, butter?
Yeah.
You hardly see them use coconut milk.
Hardly.
So, but in Asian context is usually coconut milk.
Yeah.
But I've never seen coconut milk as, as fat.
Not for us.
It's good fat.
So where?
So now we're getting somewhere.
That's what I was waiting for.
The one thing that I find that a lot of people actually love to partake would be the small
tiny cups of kueh pie tea.
Ah, okay.
This dish.
Now let's talk about kueh pie tea, okay?
Any tips you want to give anyone out there about kueh pie tea?
When, if they decide that I want to make kueh pie tea at home.
Any tips?
They just want to make the filling or they want to make the tea shells?
They want to make the, no, all, everything.
Okay.
Feeling is easy.
But pie tea shell, lots of patience and lots of practice.
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm not practicing.
Even I don't make a perfect kueh pie tea.
I'm still learning.
I don't think anyone does a perfect kueh pie tea.
I mean, if you can get 70% of the entire, you know, bunch of these cups that you actually
fry.
Yeah.
You fry.
Yeah.
You fry kind of perfect.
You're damn good already.
Basically.
Right.
Make sure you're, uh, but one thing for sure, you got to keep doing it so that your mold
is seasoned.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
If your mold is not seasoned enough, then you will never get a perfect kueh pie tea.
Once it's seasoned, I tell you it's seamless already.
Yeah.
The thing is, is that, uh, kueh pie tea, the, when you come out and it comes, when you bring
it out, there are a few qualities that you look for, right?
Yeah.
Either you cannot be, I'm calling my mom, you cannot be too sick.
You cannot be too sick.
If it's too sick, it gets soggy at the bottom and everything falls out.
Right?
So it's a, it's really an intricate thing to do.
Yes.
Then there's the bang kwang, right?
The turnips.
What?
Turnips.
Hikema.
What?
Hikema.
Ang moh calls it hikema.
Ang moh, which ang moh calls it hikema.
I thought turnip came from the ang mohs.
What's hikema?
Their turnip is different.
So our turnip, right, mang kwang, is their version of what they call hikema.
Okay.
So you're telling me that our turnip is Chinese turnip?
That-
From China?
I mean, it's, I mean, if you look at turnip exists all over the continent.
Right.
But they have different names.
So in the States and South America, they call it hikema.
Hikema.
Yeah.
Hikema, your backside hikema.
Just call it bloody turnip, okay?
Two syllables versus three freaking syllables, crazy Americans.
So, so, so when I used to have a little live stream and then I actually wrote the recipe
there, I had people from the States who wanted to cook and got their version of turnip, which
is actually radish.
And then they-
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
So it's radish ah?
For them it's radish, but it's not mang kwang.
For them, their turnip is hikema.
So you got to specifically tell them hikema and not turnip.
Yeah.
But so when they heard turnip, they-
They cook radish.
Okay.
So-
And our radish is like, it's very similar to their daikon la, you know, the bite-
What?
Yeah.
What the-
The radish that you cook soup with.
What daikon?
The radish that you cook with the white carrot.
White carrot ah?
Yeah.
That one we call radish, right?
Yeah.
But what's daikon?
But they are called-
I'm getting confused.
Okay.
Anyway, but this is not a food language.
Geez.
Okay.
Let's talk about kuih paity again.
So to make that thing, the implement is so interesting because it's this L-shaped thing
that comes down with a mold there, right?
It's so-
It looks- it is to me, it doesn't look Asian at all, man.
Yeah.
So, okay.
So-
It looks like something that you get out of like, you know, you go to say a Western kitchen
and then you find this sort of implement.
The way it's built, the way it's created, the handle and it just doesn't look local
in the least.
I think it is a very non-ya dish.
Yeah.
It is.
I also think that because our influence of food is not just like the mix of the Javanese,
the Malay spice, the Indian, the Chinese.
Our food is also, you know, borrowed a lot from like the techniques or whatever or dishes.
Like even now, kuih lapis is actually Dutch, right?
Right.
So-
Wait, wait, wait.
Kuih lapis is not Dutch.
Kuih lapis is Indonesian.
Yeah.
But the influence of Dutch.
Wow.
No.
Yes.
I know Indonesia was a Dutch colony.
I know that, you know, Batavia and all that.
But kuih lapis is Indonesian.
And the word of kuih actually derived from the word krok.
What?
Like krok, K-O-E-N, kuk or something.
So you're telling me that the word kuih is actually a derivative of a Dutch word.
That's what I read.
Oh, fuck.
So anyway, back to the mall.
Yeah.
So people have found similar malls.
Uh-huh.
If they travel to Portugal or to Spain or to the Netherlands, they have found similar
malls.
Okay.
Yeah.
That they use for their cooking.
Which they hold this way, right?
Yeah.
And they dip it in.
That's the thing, you see.
So when I watch, I love watching cooking shows, by the way.
When I watch some cooking shows, I always see them.
It looks like so familiar.
They're holding implements, right?
They're cooking stuff.
Then they're making all these cute little tartlets.
Yeah.
And they've got this L-shaped thing.
Let's say kuih paity.
The thing's also almost the same.
So could it be that there had been some Western influence on kuih?
Definitely.
I think for the shell, yes.
Right?
But for our feeling, it's more hokkien.
Okay.
The feeling is hokkien.
The feeling is in the turnip.
Yeah.
But the flavor.
Wait.
The flavor.
When they put the bang kuang turnip inside the cup, right?
It's how you prepare the thing.
Yeah.
You put it inside.
Then you got to put, you got to sprinkle garlic.
Or you put also, hang on.
Yeah.
My house, I do.
You want garlic?
Yeah.
Sure.
Here, you try it.
I'll try it.
I'm not kidding.
It's roasted.
Mom, I'm so sorry.
My fried garlic.
Fried garlic?
I think so.
My sister would kill me for this.
You put bang kuang inside, right?
Yeah.
Then you take one udang.
Small little udang.
Shrimp.
Yeah.
Grago.
Sorry.
I'm Eurasian.
I'm calling myself that.
Grago.
Put a grago inside there.
Then you put a small little, is it parsley?
Yeah.
Some coriander leaves.
Coriander leaves.
Sorry.
Yeah.
Coriander.
Then after that, you sprinkle the garlic.
Then you chili chuka.
Chili chuka.
Chuka.
Chuka, right?
Yeah.
Then you wallop.
Yeah.
I'm hungry.
That's the best way.
I want me some kuih pai tea.
Damn shook, man.
And every family makes it differently also.
Yeah.
You were pretty stunned about the fact that I talked about garlic.
Yeah.
Because I know like, some they do like, some crush, like fry.
Yeah.
Not garlic, you know, but it was like.
Egg strips.
Okay.
Egg ribbons, like egg strips.
Egg ribbons, I saw egg strips.
Egg ribbons, I cannot hear.
Okay, strips.
No, but I forgot about the egg strips.
Yeah, we put the egg strips as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Then I do know some put, not nuts, but it's like fried.
It's like little fried dough like that, that became very, very crispy.
Oh, is it?
Yeah.
Well, that one I don't know.
I do know that we, we dump in the gut.
Wait.
You're right.
There's this fried something.
Yeah.
Which is crispy.
Which is like fried flour.
Yeah, correct.
And then mixed with garlic, you know, it is mixed with garlic.
Okay, I didn't know about the mixed with garlic.
So together with the garlic, you just sprinkle on top.
It's quite short.
I tell you, being, being brought up in an Asian family, I think at least in Southeast
Asia as a product of Eurasian, right?
Like when your parents or your grandparents don't give you recipe, you study the art of
Agar-Racism.
But you do know, come on, you get the older folks, you know, that will tell you there
is no way.
Even my wife says this, you know, she's a great cook.
Those of you follow my socials, I know a lot of you celebrate and see my wife's cooking,
which I always proudly present on my Facebook wall.
And you have people, you know, these guys say, look, there is no measurement.
I only go by, you know, this is feel.
Yeah, yeah.
The feeling of the texture.
So how would anyone possibly be able to write a recipe book to tell you how to do this and
do that with measurements?
But here's the thing about recipe book.
You should never follow recipe book to the T. The recipe book is always a guideline,
right?
Like, like sometimes when I write recipe for people and then they tell me like, oh, how
many chili should I put that in?
I'm like, yeah, maybe three to five, three or five should be one or, I said, I can't
tell you because why?
Today, my chili is not spicy.
Tomorrow my chili is spicy.
The supplier of my chili can be from Vietnam, Indonesia, India.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, taste different, spice different.
My shallots are different.
Spice levels are different.
Yeah.
If my shallots from Indonesia, it's nice and fragrant, but if it's from China, it's very
watery so it doesn't fry properly.
I'll tell you something.
If Larry Gordon Ramsay was here, you know what problem you have with you?
What?
It's shallots.
It's not shallots.
You know what I'll say?
Gordon Ramsay.
You say it out loud, okay?
Shallots.
Right.
Anyway, these shallots, to be fair to him.
I want to talk about this divisive, this divisive, what do we call this?
Is this fruit?
Or I think, is it just petai?
Oh, I love petai.
Can we have a picture of the petai?
My wife loves petai.
I like petai.
You know what I'm saying?
I'm in love with it.
My wife loves petai.
And the thing about petai, can we tell everybody?
The thing about petai is after you have it, after you've eaten it, then you go to the
loo and you take a pee.
And your whole toilet smells of petai.
And it's supposedly good for your kidneys, man.
Yeah, it's good for diabetics.
Yeah.
But it doesn't work if you're eating it with sambal and all that rice and everything.
I mean, come on.
How do you possibly have petai without all that, man?
Give me a break, man.
Do you have petai on your menu?
Yes.
Do people appreciate it outside of the Peranakan culture?
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
Do they appreciate it?
Yes, yes, yes.
Do they do?
Wow, okay.
Okay, that's a surprise.
It's a good introduction.
I actually have one dish that I do in my private dining and it's only on special requests and
only if I have it.
Which is?
And it's like the double stink bomb of all dishes.
It's tempoya petai.
What is that?
It's actually fermented durian.
Holy shit.
Mm-hmm.
Durian paste.
Cooked.
So, so it's a tempoya sambal.
Okay.
It's sambal that I add fermented durian and then I throw in the petai in there.
Oh my goodness, me.
It's so good, man.
You're every white person's nightmare.
That's why I'm not married to a white person.
Are you mad, woman?
You give me durian fermented durian to make it worse and then you throw petai in that.
Yeah, I'm like, oh, you white people run away far, far.
I tell you.
This one I like, you know.
This one?
I really miss this so much.
Belimbing.
Oh, belimbing.
Love.
But you know, I always go, bling, bling.
I want my bling, bling.
Yeah, bling, bling, man.
I mean, this is so rare now.
So hard to find, you know.
Oh.
Actually, by the way, any of you have a house with a tree and belimbing, please pass some
to me.
Exactly where I want to go with that because, you know, years and years and years ago, I'm
not living there anymore.
I'm not going to say where.
Somewhere in the Upper East Coast.
I used to live in a condo.
Right.
Quite a large one.
And they have great landscaping there.
And behind my tower was a small little bush-like looking plant teeming with belimbing.
Oh, shiok.
You know what I do?
I sapu, man.
Smart, you're the smart one.
Nobody knew, nobody understood what it was.
I did.
So we plucked the whole damn thing bald.
And I threw it to my mom.
Along that East Coast, where every time before you cross the underpass, there are always
native fruits that people do not know.
But you're not supposed to pluck, right?
I'm not supposed to pluck, right?
But, but, big but.
It's a big but.
But can we tell everybody what's so good about belimbing?
I mean, how do we cook belimbing?
What is it?
It's, ah, it's.
Can we flash it up again, please, Kai?
It's a super, super, super, super sour fruit.
Yeah, damn shiok ah.
Okay, super sour fruit.
It's so more-ish.
More-ish?
Yeah, when you cook it.
More-ish.
That's the first.
Okay.
And, okay, so tell me, how do you cook it?
Okay, I mean, you don't really cook it as much.
So I usually just do it with fried ikan bilis.
And then the sambal, you know, just a bit of coconut, just to balance up because this
dish is very sour, it cuts.
So you need to balance it.
Okay.
Then you slice it up and then, some people would actually slice it up and soak it in
salt water for a bit.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
And then after that, you just throw it in and cook it.
But you don't want to overcook it because it will get mushy.
You just still want to maintain sourness there.
Then you balance it off with a bit of sugar.
Right.
So, yeah, I just want to know from you, because all these things you've been saying, you know,
like it's all about, I can't tell you, don't follow the recipe exactly and all that.
Where Britney's Kitchen is concerned, your business and you, Bibi Lili, in the kitchen
doing all of that, sweating it out.
Geez, my goodness me.
Can we put a picture of Lili in action, please?
You have that?
Oh, there you go.
This one's slaving away, plating even, man.
You also, are you particular about plating?
I am not one of those tweezer people.
If that's what you're trying to say, okay.
I mean, I'm trying to learn how to plate pretty.
I'm not plating stuff pretty, but I'm learning.
Okay.
Especially when it comes to private dining.
My question actually would be this.
Britney's Kitchen, Bibi Lili, in your dishes that you have, is there a secret weapon?
Do you have something like, I have something secret with me that I will not share, but
I have one that will make my dishes or my service even better than most?
This is cliche.
Okay, I mean-
This is cliche?
It's very cliche.
Oh, come on.
First of all, I'm not original.
Now I'm giving you a cliche, man.
Not you cliche.
My answer will be very cliche.
Oh, your answer will be cliche.
Yeah, my answer will be cliche.
The answers are only cliche because the freaking idiot asking the question is also asking the
cliche question.
There's no secret weapon, it's just really cooked in your heart.
Right.
Oh, really?
Yeah, really, really cooked in your heart.
So on a day that you have a bad mood, food turns out sucky?
Sometimes.
So is that, is there any truth in that freaking old wise tale?
No, there is.
There is.
Really?
There is.
Seriously, there have been like, if I'm in a bad mood, I'm in a hurry, or I'm not well,
my food actually don't turn out the way I want it to.
So, so, so one day, for example, you have a party of eight coming over for dining.
And then today for some reason, Bibi Lilly is having a real foul mood.
She's in a foul mood.
She sends a WhatsApp message out.
I'm sorry guys, we have to postpone this to maybe tomorrow because I'm in a bad mood,
food's going to suck.
That's not going to happen by the way.
Oh, Chris, you're in so much trouble after we say cut.
All right, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so,
so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so,
so, so, so, so you don't even know you're cooking for people.
Okay.
And when you want to cook for people, you want to put the best and you know, I don't
I'm the best chef or the best cook. You know, I just like every time I cook, I taste it and I'm
and the next time I cook the same dish, I want to make it better than the last one. And that's what
it is. I think that's a principle of philosophy that any chef who has passion in their
cooking and whatever cuisine they do, that's something that they have to carry with them.
Okay, I'd like to play a video now. Can you get the video ready for me please?
Oh, look at me. This video I found, you posted this video man. Oh, let me bring that volume down.
The hostess is the mostess man. Because you're not just a chef, you should also be the host.
Let's just play this. Give the people some time to see what British Kitchen is doing.
I saw Nasi Ulam on that thing. Yes, that's my signature. And I saw petai being cooked as well.
Oh, that's your signature Nasi Ulam. Wow. You know where I get my Nasi Ulam fix?
Now you're going to tell me about that one.
No, not Jonathan Tok Kong. Shout out to Colin. That's where I used to get my fixes.
Yeah, the Malaccan Chendol guy. Colin. Hey Colin. Yeah, so he sells Ulam there. So hey, hang on.
She does Ulam too. Yeah, man. Cool, cool, cool. So hosting. How do you host people
when you're in the kitchen all the time? Wow, tiring. But you have to do it. So basically,
like when it comes to private dining, it takes a lot of planning ahead. And this is to anyone
who's thinking of going into private dining. You must always think ahead of how much,
we call it the mise en place or all your preparation ingredients that you need to prepare way in advance.
And dishes, I think what's good, unlike certain dishes which needs you to do Aluminum cooking,
good thing about Peranakan food is you can pre-cook it and then leave it there. And then it's all
boys down to the scooping and stuff like that. So you do need to have this mentor or you write it
down, like having this whole scheduling. It's a program. It's a program. So your private dining,
when you book me, I'm literally planning and cooking this for three days. Three days. Yeah,
sometimes two days, but sometimes certain dishes, certain things, depending on my schedule,
I have to prep it three days in advance. Oh crap, man. And then, you know, so I'm like,
you know, so I'll be, or sometimes I'm like prepping the night before and I'll go to bed
like about 2, 3 a.m. and then I'll wake up at 7 to be in the market again. Prepping and cooking
and everything. And then what happened is guests arrived at 7, by 6 o'clock, I have to make sure
the whole place is set up. Wow. Okay. I'll be running into a shower to look fresh again. Wow.
Okay. And makeup and everything. And then looking presentable, my husband also will be like getting
blustered by me. Hurry up! Make sure the glassware is there. This is that. Everything. Everyone's
going chaotic. Okay. Mad first. And then suddenly the door opens and everyone's like, hi, welcome!
Right? And when people come for private dining and I don't, and although private dining is quite
popular now, a lot of people still don't really know what to expect. Because you're going to
someone's house, you're not going to a restaurant. I wouldn't know what to expect either. I've never
done it. Like, you know, and I had this really funny auntie, she came over and then she came
to the house and she went like, later ah, I want to order ngohiang ah, take away hor. Then I'm like,
uh, auntie, this one not restaurant. I don't have ngohiang on the menu today. Oh gosh. You know, so they thought they can order.
Oh man. Hello, this is a house. Hello. Excuse me. So, so, uh, there is certain etiquettes and certain rules
that people, when you go to private dining, you are going to someone's house. So do you issue those rules
to these people to manage expectations? No, you don't. But you just, uh, leave it to faith that these people
have common courtesy. Uh, but you do send out certain things like, okay, this, uh, this is the time you come,
uh, this is what time food will be served, uh, this is what time it has to be, uh, uh, we have to end
because we are living in the HDB, noise pollution, you know, all these things we have to buy. So this
is where they, so this is like little polite guidelines to tell them. Okay. In that sense. Yeah.
Have you ever, I mean, come on, I mean, I'm not going to hold my breath. I'm going to suggest to you,
don't hold your breath as well because you know, we expect your guests to be. Yeah. But at the end
of the day, we want our guests to like really enjoy themselves. Sure. But let me, let me be bold to ask
you, let me be bold to ask you. I mean, haven't you ever had an asshole guest in your own home?
I have. Tell me one instance, maybe the worst story. Oh, before we, before we move on to the
last few questions. The worst one I had, I mean, I mean, uh, it's a bit pricey to say, it's actually
from a friend. He was doing out of, you know, uh, the goodness of his heart to recommend private
dining and this group of friends of his are not in that kind of scene. They are the lim-chew kind
of people. Oh, die. Okay. So, so when they came, they down like maybe before dinner started,
they down like finish a bottle of whiskey. Right. Okay. And the, and the whole time they're like,
lim, lim, lim, lim, and like, oh my God. And I felt to a point a bit insulted because I gave all
this effort to cook you a dish and every dish I come out with, I will always present to you
because private dining is not just about like in a restaurant, here's a food park. That's it. Yeah.
You know, the chef comes out, dedicate their time the whole night for you. It's for you to appreciate.
You know, to let you know how the ulam is made, why we make it, what this dish is. And you do all
that. You present all this. I tell you how long my rendang has been cooked for, how the process is,
you know, so that at the end of the day, you're not just eating food for the hell of eating.
It's about you having more mindfulness, knowing where your food come from, knowing how much effort
is made into this food. It's like really educating you to appreciate food. And they weren't because
they were drunk. Oh dear. And do you have a feel, a fear for safety in your own home? Yes, I did. I
actually had this guy was so drunk, he collapsed on the floor. He was lying in the middle of the
living room. Oh gosh. And puking. Oh gosh. And I was like, this is a nightmare. I don't even want
to continue this dinner, but I have to. So that was, yeah. I asked you for the worst story. Thank
you for really giving me the worst story, man. So basically, you know, the idea is if you are, don't
invite riffraffs. But if you are a person that wants to understand the culture behind this,
and you never, you really want to understand, then come around with some common sense.
In someone's home. Absolutely. Someone's home. Man, that happened in my home. My God, I'll kick the
bucket out right now. I was so upset. I mean, I'll be so pissed. Anyway, just a few more questions
really before we wrap up. Looking ahead, what are your ambitions for your private dining business?
Wow. That's a very good question. Actually, I'm not sure you, I mean, since you've been doing a lot of
research, you do realize that I have made an announcement. Yes, I saw that announcement. Yeah.
So as I'm going on this journey to look into more lost recipes of the Peranakan food and stuff like
that, because a lot of us just know the Korean essential dishes like rendang and baklava and
stuff, but there's so many dishes that we probably haven't even tasted. Right. But I'm also like
trying to connect the thoughts and the influence of Southeast Asian food, right? That comes to our
shore as well. Wow. You're going deeper into this. Yeah. So I'm actually going to Thailand,
because also part of me, my mom being Thai, and it's something that my mom's heritage is
something that's not been explored as well. So I'm actually going to go to Thailand for a year.
Wow. And then I'll be back. Wow. You're the female version of Indiana Jones, but the food version too.
So you're going to go explore beyond the boundaries of Peranakan food as well.
Yeah, in that sense. And I'll come back and if I feel Indonesia has a calling, I might do that
as well. Okay. Yeah. I just want to stick, I mean, the food in Southeast Asia that is
influenced of Peranakan food or Eurasian food is also connected. Right. This is something that,
I mean, I know writers have written about it, but I just feel that maybe it's just my turn.
So you're going to go find out and discover it and then what are you going to do? Come back with
all that knowledge and do something again? Yeah, probably do something again, you know.
You really need to explore. But really go more, you know, I mean, sometimes, you know,
as a chef, I just feel like you don't want to be cooking rendang every single day, day in, day out.
Right. Right. You want to also bring out new stuff and let people explore. Sure,
you come to my private dining, you get to taste certain dishes that is the thing that you expect.
But I also want to bring something to the table to you that is like, oh, I've never tasted this dish
before. Right. You know, like for instance, like when you brought out the bilimbing. So I was in
Malacca and now, and recently, I think you are aware there are two, there are the Chik-Tee
Peranakan. Chik-Tee Malacans. Yeah, the Chik-Tee Malacans are now getting more exposure.
More exposure, yeah. So that's great. And one dish I really, really like when I was in Malacca.
And you guys can go check this out at Wern's Kitchen. What kitchen? Wern's. Wern's. Yeah. W-E-N.
Okay. Right. So they made this fish roll sambal with bilimbing. It's so good, man. Really? It's
like dynamite. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Wern's Kitchen, I remember that. Yeah. Okay. We're giving out
free advertising today. And I want to thank you though. I want to thank you for the, whatever,
I don't know what's inside the tiffin carrier. You should open up and take a look. Yeah, I'm
going to open up and take a look. But because we've already crossed the production time
for this episode, but I am going to put my face into that and I can tell you for sure.
I just want to do this little thing for you. By asking you this question, if there's one thing
you want my viewers and listeners to remember about your Peranakan cuisine and your private dining
experience, what would it be? Wow. I got to think about this one. Please do. Please do.
Like what I would like them to remember me for? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I suppose I want people to
remember that, you know, whatever I'm doing for this, it's really to, you know, I'm putting a lot
of my heart and soul into it. Yeah. And I, I, I still got a lot to learn, right? But I do hope
that I'll in the future, you know, I'll be the one that can actually still feed the younger
generation and say, Hey, this is Peranakan food. Right. You need to remember where you come from.
This is what it is. So it is making sure that all the authenticity of Peranakan cuisine is not lost.
Yeah. And then one last thing. Can you please look into your camera right over there? Which one?
That one. And tell everyone where can your guests find you? Okay. So you can follow my Instagram.
Uh, BbLily is my own page, which I also post a lot of the food contents and stuff like that.
And then if you want to order food, you can follow Brili's kitchen. Okay. Slash it up now.
Here we go. That's B-R-I-L-Y apostrophe S kitchen. And that's where every single week I will,
or almost every single week, I will post out menus or you can DM me for private dinners and orders,
whatnot. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Even if you're watching, uh, you're from Indonesia,
I know I got a lot of you guys who are my subscribers there. Uh, and from the Philippines,
when you come around to visit Singapore, you know, drop a BbLily, you know, a DM and then go to her
place. You got any Taiwanese? So far I don't know. I'm actually going to Taiwan guys.
So you guys want to just drop her a DM. Okay. Uh, and try it out. Try Paranakan cuisine in Singapore,
in, in, in really in, in a HDB flat. I mean, it'd be really, really nice for you guys.
Uh, you can come here as tourists. Um, and you've been watching the Chris Hansen conversation,
and this is one of our episodes for our series. I love my job and I've had the pleasure of having
BbLily with me from British kitchen, private home dining and Paranakan cuisine at its finest. Uh,
and you know why I'm going to say goodbye right now? Why I'm really going to put a hard stop?
Because my mouth is going to go for what's in there brought to me by kind courtesy of BbLily.
And, uh, we're going to be, maybe we'll be rolling. Yeah. Kai, whatever I was going to go into my
mouth. And until next time people, uh, please stay hungry, but make sure you scarf something
great down your gullets. I'll see you soon. Bye-bye. Bye.