Previously on The Chris Hansen Conversation.
So would you say that radio wasn't actually a calling for you?
No, it was...
It wasn't?
No, no. I was an accident and I have Lyndon Yeo to thank for that.
Yeah, how did it happen man? How did it happen? How did you end up in radio?
No, I... So I had a life all planned out to be in law, graduated with this diploma.
Not good enough results to go into NUS because it's the standard so high, right?
Okay.
From polytechnic especially. Couldn't afford to go overseas to get the degree.
And father says, oh it's time for you to go work. Okay, what am I going to do here? I don't know
what to do. Going to the army and I served the special investigation branch. There was an
opportunity with the military prosecutor's office but and I can't reveal too much. I think I don't
know whether it still applies to me these laws but there were certain cases that I did and it
got to my head and I wish I had a support system to guide me and say, hey it's okay. I'm not blaming
the SAF. I'm blaming outside to guide me and say, okay you can still get through this. I mean it's
not like I can go home and talk about these things, right? What was mental health back then?
Yeah. You suck it up. So I was lost. I was going in circles and I started and someone suggested,
why don't you try radio? I'm like, oh yeah try. What is this radio thing? I don't know how to do.
That's so random though. Yeah, yeah. You know very random because I used to MC in school. Right. So
I needed money. Okay. Okay. I tried to be MC. You know as a young, what was I, by the time I left,
I was like 23, 24. Right. Finnish army, right? Should be. Yeah. Don't know how to groom myself,
MCing which requires a lot of rah-rah which I'm not very good at. The event organizers will laugh
at you and be okay you need to do better, criticize you. Okay, you're the guina, right? You
got to earn, right? You got to earn your way through, right? Yeah. The paycheck, what is the
paycheck? You think you can charge two, three, four, five thousand like some of these big players? You
can't. But randomly someone said try radio. So I sent to everywhere, rejected everywhere and I got
lucky with WKRZ, Techno radio station 91.3. Lyndon Yeoh who was I think head of sales back then
gave me a call. I love this man. I owe him a lot. He says, okay, I got your resume. Are you ready
for this? Isn't that funny? Like he was like a radio DJ. Are you ready for this sir? Yeah, what?
But we don't mind offering you something part-time. Come here and read news because I sent a news demo.
I'm like, oh okay. So I sent a news demo. I got in a couple of months. Things start to change. SPH
buys more shares. We're going to move over to the building. One year later, Jamie Melvin comes in.
You have heard the story from Joe Agustin. Jamie says, okay. The late Jamie rest his soul says,
okay, you're going to go on a morning show from Monday with with Joanne Petrina. What? What? These
two people, I'm just in my own world recording news. No, no, no, you go read it live. No more recording.
First word Joe says to me, I'm not going to make it easy for you. I'm like, oh I'm dead man.
I have said some stupid things on air as far as pronunciation is concerned.
But that you can choose to let those moments play into your ego. You feel, oh, I can't do this anymore.
You become weak mentally and run away or you could find a way out. But I got into the all time loop
is Jamie Meldrum comes to me and says, you know, kid, some people can read news and some people
can't. You can't. You're off air. Oh wow. You're going to go produce for Joe. I think Joe Petrina
had left. I think the Nissan came in for a bit or something like that. Right. You're going to go
produce for them. Huh? Yeah. Find gas, find interviews, calls, lining all up. And then you
write the news for them as well. Like what? You know what I did? I worked on my craft
and I begged my way back. And when I got back, I never lost it. And even it's easy to be angry,
but I always had respect with Jamie Meldrum. And even before he passed on, we were,
we were very respectful to each other. Right. Very kind to each other. I think deep down, he also
respected that effort. You know, how often does that happen? I tell this story to, story to
younger people that, ah, it's my right to go on air. So it's like a badge you earned. I feel like
shit. Yeah. Okay. But then since it wasn't a calling when he got into it, then, you know,
you got knocked down, you got up and it became a love. So like, and I'm sure you see these videos
on like your LinkedIn or your Instagram stories. This guy, Simon Sinek, who talks about, yeah,
success mindset, right? Right. And I like what he says, you know, a lot of people think,
go find your passion and work in your passion. Why are you so lucky you can be in your passion?
My wife even said this to me, you know, you're very lucky you're in a job that you're passionate
about. They say radio is not my passion. You're like, really? I've always thought it's your
passion. No, my passion is law. I love the law. I love, I love the law to the point I like, like,
like law movies, law books, law conversations. Till now, even till now. Till now, I love it.
I know that's not going to be my career. I know for a fact, uh, radio was something, the passion
from radio is actually my payoff. It's actually my reward because I got to deal with the obstacles,
get good at it. You know, even to become a business and finance presenter from it,
pivoted within it so many times, the passion is in, hey, blood, sweat and tears. You worked out some
of the problems and here's where you are and you should be happy with the passion that you
built from it. So it's part of my life. Basically you took ownership of it. Yeah. And, and, and,
and we should, right, take ownership of everything. One advice that someone gave me a long time ago is
own your shit. Yeah, I mean, no, no, no. When you say own your shit, that's different. Yeah.
But taking ownership of something that you never thought that you'd be good at is something else.
But you're in that situation. It is your shit. So you took ownership of it.
What? Okay. But wouldn't it be great based on what your wife said, and I'm a proponent of that these
days, what your wife said, to really work on something you love so much rather than doing
something that could be lucrative. And yes, of course the journey would matter more than the
destination and you would lap that all up and like what you, what you have, you know, and enjoy it.
And that's rightly so. But for me, I'm a proponent for the other now. Okay. Do something you're
passionate in and every single day of your life is not worth it. That's true. You know, and instead
of taking ownership of it, say, you know what, I kind of like this, but I kind of like this versus
what you're born to love are two different things. By the end, if at Money FM, when we started it
six years ago, I was already passionate about it. If not, I wouldn't have succeeded the way I did.
If not, I wouldn't have. And I'll tell you a story about trouble that I had in the first year
in a while. But right now, deciding to leave, at least at the time of this recording, when I
decided to leave earlier this year, I had become or have become passionate in other things. I
become passionate in wanting to build. I become passionate in wanting to groom. And I feel you're
wasting my time just making me go on air because I have matured and built other pillars within me
that I want to give. Right. You know, I can take the easy way out and just say, hey, I'm on air,
doors open for me, you got name, quite famous, cool. But I didn't want that. So I'll give you
an example. Like you see me wearing this hockey shirt is because I'm kind of involved volunteering
for this Asian Hockey Federation Cup, Junior Cup. Now I was nominated and elected to the executive
board of the Singapore Hockey Federation in February. I don't know anything about hockey.
I'm an independent board member, the guy that's supposed to be unbiased.
I took on that because okay, I was already on my way out. The president says, you know,
this could be something like, yeah, okay. How often can you be part of a federation? Right.
Right. And I had not put this out anywhere on social media before we had had this recording
because I felt I didn't do anything to earn my place. Okay. So comes the tournament,
I've got some time. I decide, okay, I can help with some of the media operations, the announcement,
train some of the volunteers here and there. And I had to give out a player of the match award.
Because we needed a lot of presenters, right? So I had to give out the award. And they just put me
as media officer, competition manager had no idea. Like, yeah, cool. No worries. And then he finds
out, why didn't you tell me you're on the executive board? I said, what does it matter? It does.
Because that's who you are. And in that moment, there was a sparkle in my eye. I've earned your
respect. Now I will say I'm an executive board member because I've earned your respect. Okay.
At this, I don't want to be complacent, even though I'm older than I was before, I've done more things
than I did before. I still like the idea of earning respect, keep, and those sorts of things.
Okay, bro, just this consultancy thing you've been doing. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Okay.
What exactly are you consulting? So this is just something to fill the gaps. Yeah.
Well, something better comes along. That's what you said. But what exactly are you doing?
We're doing, so I am doing a couple of things. One being brand building via podcast. So I've got a
client where they have, no, I'm not trying to steal business from you. So they have one of these
defense forums coming up. So what we are doing in the lead up is to record podcasts, which I will
host and produce, to send out to stakeholders to help build that brand, build the understanding of
what exactly is happening at these dialogues, these fireside chats that are going to happen.
So that's one example of brand building via podcast. The second one, which is the main one,
would be a lot of presenting training, media training. So you train a CEO before they go on CNBC,
that sort of thing. And then the final pillar is something that I hope I can learn along the way,
which is kind of why I'm doing this with the Hockey Federation, because I find myself in my
role doing a bit of a comms role as well. So it's that business development aspect. So I don't know
a lot about it. I know about it in theory. I haven't had the chance to practice that. So this
is an opportunity to learn and build those aspects. At the end of the day, where this
consultancy will go, I cannot tell you, but I can say that during this time, I can earn some money
and I can build some skills. Interesting, man. You and I should have a chat after the shoot.
Right. Why not, man? I mean, it sounds kind of interesting. You know, I've asked this young
person a few times, not too long ago, about whether or not they still listen to radio. Joe says he
doesn't listen to listen to radio anymore because we all got this phone, this device in our hands.
I can kind of agree. And he seems to be quite right when it comes to the young people today.
Then I ask them, do you listen to radio? No. Okay. Do you know anyone on radio at all?
Maybe. I don't know. Do you know, um, it's going to hate me for this. Do you know Glenn Ong? Who's that?
So my point is, do you think, and I've always, I will say this. I've always said,
Ed, video didn't kill the radio star. What do you think, Ed? Do you think it's going the way
of the dinosaurs, man? You know who killed the radio star? It wasn't MTV.
You know who killed the radio star? Who? I'll tell you. Who? The radio star.
Why do I need to list? So that's why I'm very comfortable in talk radio. I find this my calling.
Yeah. Because of a few things that I learned. I'll get to that in a bit.
Why do I need to listen to the radio? It's just like, uh, why do I need this particular coffee
or why do I need to buy these things? We are salesmen. I've denied it for years,
but the truth is we are salesmen. Yep. So why are you selling? So if I don't need you for music,
which I can get on Spotify, the whole world tune in to the time that Taylor Swift launched
her new album on Spotify. The whole reason why she took off all the albums and re-recorded it
because it's a business decision, right? So why do I need to listen to radio for music?
Okay. No problem. Nostalgia? Convenience? I switch on in the car? Sure.
The radio personality? Hmm. So what about the radio personality? And this isn't a criticism to
any radio personality. This is a genuine question and a genuine reason why I left. So what about?
So where am I going with this? Right. What else can I do? Now a year into Money FM, uh, in fact,
in the first month of Money FM, a guy named Mark Laude reviewed the station and he passed his
comment. And by the way, I really like Mark, a shout out to you. He says the presenters there
are like facilitators reading off a script that producers hand to them with all the prep work.
Wah die. One year later, my favorite, best, beloved co-anchor, Yasmin Yonggur, leaves for
CNA. She's always a big sister to me and I'm going, I'm in trouble. I'm alone now. So I go in in the
morning, show starts at six, right? I go in morning five plus, I watch CNBC. Look at how they do things,
how trying to gain all the knowledge that every day, one hour, learn, learn, learn. And I came
across this guy, Sri Jagar Raja. Now we've had passing conversations, but we don't know each other
very well. He's like my idol because he takes this jargon and he game shows the thing. He puts a bit
of, uh, how do you say, swagger to it. He puts a bit of relatable conversations to it. So why would
I listen to Sri Jagar Raja? Because I'm waiting for him to make that, that question or that comment,
and then, and you find the, uh, how should I say the guest slightly put in the spot. So that's what
I'm after. Ah, I could learn something from there. So comes back to this question that you asked,
right? Or the comment that I made, Radio Kill the radio star. So you can't just go on backsell,
frontsell and give a few fun facts. You've got to do more. I don't have to answer to that question.
So why would people listen to you? You've got podcasts. I listen to ESPN podcasts every day.
How many, and that's another problem, right? And I specifically use the word the radio star killed
the radio star. Star. Chris, what do you think? Name me one person that listens to your podcast
right now. Name me one person. The audio listens to the audio version of your podcast. Anyone.
I really don't know. Okay. Uh. Can you picture roughly this person in your head? Doesn't matter
if you don't want a name name. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can. Yeah. What do you think that person is doing
right now? If that person right now is listening to your podcast. It's not live anyway. Yeah. So
what do you think they are doing right now? If they, when they're listening to your podcast.
What are they doing right now? When they're listening to the podcast, they could be doing
anything. Exactly. They could be cooking. They could be washing the cars. It could be, yeah.
Absolutely. People are multitasking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So don't get into your own head. Don't
go away. I'm that cool radio DJ and here's the next song coming up and listen to my voice. Cause
I'm really cool with this fake American accent as well. Nobody cares. They are multitasking. Yeah.
So if you've got, either you've got important information for them or you don't. I think there's
only one form of appointment based listening that exists. And that is if I take the trouble to listen
to the radio because I don't want to read for the news. I think, don't you think that maybe perhaps
it could be because people upstairs don't want to see things evolve in a certain direction?
You know, I, I, and again. There's no evolution, right? And again, back cell, front cell,
it's the same thing all the time. Again, I just, I cannot say that I care to blame the people upstairs.
If I wanted to blame, maybe I would blame a lack of recognition for innovation. If innovation existed,
maybe I would blame a lack of pressure. How about the regulator? What about the regulator?
Do they, do they actually, do they come up with broad rules where maybe the broadcaster gets a
bit worried and then, you know, just tap on the brakes on a lot of things to innovate? Don't talk
about gay sex on radio. Do you need to talk about gay sex on radio? Okay. But it's me expressing
myself. Do you need to? It's a service job. It's a service job. Right. So how do you provide good-
So what are you saying? What are you saying at it? You're saying that, uh, no, it's not,
it's not the regulator. I'm saying we need to take ownership. Look, there are rules everywhere.
Oh my God. There's direction. You are saying almost the same thing Joe has said, man. Take your own,
take your own ownership. Do you realize in a different way, you're telling me exactly the
same thing Joe has mentioned? Well, he's saying the same thing. If, if I was fortunate enough to be
20 years older, maybe I could have been his partner. Look, I'm, I, Joe's rubbed people the wrong
way and he's brought this up. But from his point of, take five seconds, just five seconds, right?
Yup, yup. From his point of view, he's right. Okay. Just like from your point of view, you're
right, but can you put that aside and just put the emotions aside and listen, what's the issue here?
Someone out there will have a better way of packaging it and telling it to, to you,
but is that being packaged? That's what I believe. I don't care about management,
not because I don't respect them, but I'm old enough, educated enough to think for myself.
Okay. There are rules, there are expectations, there are, there are targets, sales. How do I
put it all together? How do I get the best product given the circumstances? So like right now, I'm
at this hockey tournament, I'm managing a bunch of announcers. Right. They are not even 10% on my
level. Am I going to go criticize them? No, because everyone's a volunteer. Yeah. So this situation
requires a different way of thinking. Hi guys, I don't need you to do the whole lineup because I
can't give you Prono guides. I don't need you to mention every single statistic because I'm
no hockey expert and I don't think people are expecting you to be expert, but I need you to
understand one thing. You're here to announce, not commentate, announce. Tell us the teams,
tell us the score, thank the umpires. Keep it simple. So it's also again, coming back to the
very basic thing, right, of radio. Yeah. Joe has his own, everybody's got their own philosophy. My
philosophy is what was taught to me by people like Suzanne Walker and Clarissa Montero. Know your
audience. Right. So that's why I imagine them when I'm talking to them. Right. I'm talking to this
person, he's got to relate to this person, right? Right. I'm very smart. I know this is a really big
word, but how can I use a simple word? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Because if you don't know your
audience, they can't relate to what you're saying anyway. So I'm that kind of person that yes, it's
easy to blame structure, bureaucracy or whatever, but maybe, and maybe this is just the way I was
raised. Maybe I just look at myself first and what I can do. So the summing up, you feel that
radio is going the way the dinosaur is in. If you continue thinking this way, yeah. Look, you can
still have your radio. Look, I believe and maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, that you will always
need radio. We learned radio in school, how it's a medium when it's a time of war. Okay. Will things
be different? Will it be through the app? I think we'll still need that frequency tower. Yeah. Yeah.
If things are really serious. Yeah. Of course, the national radio, I mean, you're going to make
announcements in case the circuit board is in crisis or whatever. Correct. And I went for a course
taught by an ex BBC guy about how you articulate all of these during a potential terrorist attack,
that sort of thing. And it made me re-appreciate radio again. I'm like, oh, it's nice to be trained
in this as well. But anyway, so you're always going to need that. So, but within that, how can you
diversify your ability? Can you be putting out podcasts that are meaningful? In fact,
should radio become talk radio? Does music matter on radio anymore? You're competing with Spotify.
Yeah. You're competing with the guys like Joe Rogan, who can rack in that kind of money and
put themselves on. Don't we all wish we could be that? Oh man. I'm still a qualified dream man,
but hey, I think I'm the only guy in Asia doing this. No, and you're going up against,
radio is going up against guys like yourself. I don't think they see me per se as a threat.
But it shouldn't be a threat. I don't see you. If tomorrow I'm back on radio, if tomorrow I'm
back on radio and they gave me a segment called life, I wouldn't see you as a threat. Why? I
listen to you. What can I learn from you? Okay. He's doing this with one of the gaps. How can I
plug the gaps? It's just like Joe, you said that I say the same thing as him. I learned from that
too. And I respect him. Don't give me more. I really respect Joe. I learned from him like,
maybe I can position my views this way. And even that I still need to learn again to position it
better. Right. It's just, you get what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do. There's all collaboration
now, right? There's things that we can learn from one another. Wow. I'm glad you said that.
You spend time being threatened. I'm glad you said that man. You know, in 2020, when I first
started in the podcast arena with my previous show called Kopi with Chris. Oh yeah. I like that one.
And I hope this one's better. Anyway, it wasn't my show. Anyway, so I was just the host.
It was named with my name. This was just my first name, you know? Yeah. Anyway, so I used to say
this to people. I can't remember who. So many. And I've always enjoyed the fact, especially when
COVID came in, that it's all about collaboration and not about competition anymore. Simply because,
you know, I said this a couple of episodes ago. I'm just going to touch on it again. Two of my
guests on one of the episodes. One is the daughter of an Indian food chain. Okay. Yeah. And the other
guy, when he started his new bar, COVID came, but he pivoted. They're both there, you know? So one
came up with, the girl came up with this for the Prata business or the Indian food business. Make,
do a DIY Tose. Okay. And deliver it to your house with a set of instructions. So you get something
to do, right? Yeah. And then this guy met her, the bar owner, met her on my show and they started
collaborating. And it came with his booze and then he turned his bar around to start, you know,
bottling booze, you know, and coming up with their own mixes. And then it accompanies the DIY Tose
and vice versa. So it's about collaboration, which I'm quite glad to hear you say that because
that's the way to go. You know, my dream and I'm, I know this conversation is about, I love my job
and don't get me wrong, I still love my job. And my job is me and what I represent, what I can give.
My dream and hope is to have a podcast session like that with Prime Minister Lawrence Wong.
Oh, PM Sir, please come to my show first before going in. We can do it together.
I promise I shall keep my language as clean as I can. No, but it's not. And you know what,
heads off to him, he's quite a trendy guy. The effort that he makes. I mean, he plays blues,
he plays jazz. I mean, come on. Maybe that goes a long way. No, but you see, why him? Because
there's this conversation about culture that's coming up. A lot of countries around the world
are also trying to address certain aspects of the culture. And I think we talk about collaboration.
You're very glad I brought this up, but I take it back a little bit. And there's this stupid
equation that exists in most majority, not everyone, this stupid mathematical equation
that exists. And it goes like that. Oh, you are doing this equals, I need to see if I'm better
than you divided by how can I show I'm better than you slash I must compare myself to you.
So I will out talk you to show you that I'm better than you. Right. Singaporean. I hate it.
Yeah. You get what I mean? There's always this stupid competition. You know something, man.
I really don't want to take this there, man. But I think it's not,
we can say it's Singaporean abroad. But if we were to chunk it down.
Fair. Yeah. So, you know, if I, you know where I'm going with this, if I'm taking this any further,
then I tell you, I'm going to have people knocking on my door. So I'm not going to go that direction.
No, I've deleted your address so they won't get it from me.
But you do know where I'm going with this, right? Yeah. And that makes us a very selfish lot.
Yeah. And that's really sad. I cannot understand, you know, the recent kerfuffle over
kerfuffle over the mural of the Sam Sui woman holding a cigarette in her hand.
And URA said that they spoken to the artist. They want the cigarette removed because there was a
complaint. And this person, there's some people, or rather one person who complained at that.
Oh, she looks like a prostitute. It's a legal job.
And I really think that sometimes, you know, stat boards and ministries and the government per se,
should not be so light-eared. You cannot change history. Sam Sui women back then did smoke.
So that's the truth. Why do we want to hide the truth? It's as good as the Japanese and modern day
Japanese government, not the current ones and not in recent times, but right after the war
and the school books. Have you heard about it? They didn't talk about the war.
Study that in history. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. You know, in history. And I mean, why do we want to really bend to these people?
This is too pop... It's... Don't be a populist, you know?
So what did you do? What was your first reaction when you heard this news piece that Ronnie
Cheng called Singaporeans a bunch of self-entitled Karens? Because I had a damn good laugh.
Because I completely agree with him. Yeah.
We have a lot of Karens in this town, man. It's weird.
Poor Karens who are actually nice. Like people, nice people named Karens.
Whoever came up with this Karens term. I don't know.
I tell you, I mean, all the Karens in the world must be so pissed about this shit.
But there are Karens out there, man. I mean, I'm sorry to use the term Karens,
but unfortunately it's a global phenomenon now. That word being used, the terminology being used.
But you know, I'm very sad in here. You know, I read all these rubbish every day.
The worst is to read comments on headlines, you know?
And comments online, you know, with the headlines and stuff.
And it really drives you up the freaking wall. You know, people can be just so fucking mean.
And it's... I don't... I hate this. I hate this call out shit.
I hate people who virtue signal. To me, they're bullies.
Well, yeah.
You know, they're bullies, you know? And I hate bullies, man.
I love what... You know that old TV show, Leverage?
They got a new one out, a new version out, Leverage Redemption.
I like watching Leverage, you know what? Because I see bullies getting fucked over and I love it.
And you know what's funny? Most of the time, adult bullies were people who were bullied as kids.
Exactly. And what goes around really just keeps going around in circles, man.
But you know, one thing, I think you're going to miss a few things though.
I got so freaking envious when I saw this.
You're a Man United fan, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right, brother.
Right.
GGMU, man. Right. And the chicken freaking crossed the road because there was a guy
waiting to make chicken curry.
I hate it. I was so envious.
Why? What did they do?
I'm so envious, man. Because I saw this.
I saw this with Yoki and Genev. I mean, what the fuck? Can we have the picture up again?
Okay, here we go. Yeah.
So this Yoki one, right? When I walk into the room, an ex-colleague of mine,
JK from Power 98, tells Dwight Yoke, hey, hey, be careful with this guy. He's a boxer.
I'm like, you stupid fool. And then Dwight Yoke looks at his own muscles.
He's like, what, 50? Look at him. Look at him.
Look at that guy, man. He's in shape, man. Look at the pecs.
Look at the freaking shoulders and the arms, man.
But I love JK. He's a bit of a clown, but I love the guy.
You get to see your heroes and how nice they are. But the one that really,
I don't know. I feel there will be more lessons to learn from that interview.
It was the one that I did with Gary Neville. He praised my voice, but-
Because he's got a fucked up one.
It's the English anyway.
Yeah, yeah. The man.
The man. The man. Yeah.
How he commanded the room and how his thoughts were so put together,
and any question that I threw at him, he was so flexible and-
For a footballer, yeah. I mean, okay. I'm not being an asshole when I say that.
It's quite sad that we say that, right? Because, no, but because we live-
I have Hassan Sunny coming next weekend.
He's a nice guy.
No, I know. My dear friend, his coffee shop is just around the corner, man.
It's booming, man.
Oh, you're telling me. I was there just now. It's whoa, dude.
Wow. He's a good man.
Yeah, he is, yeah.
That's the thing, right? We pigeonhole. We get pigeonholed.
Hmm.
We get, yeah.
Stereotype.
I have a stereotype. Yeah, thanks. I've encountered that as well in some
interviews. Yeah, well, you're an ex-radio presenter, so what else can you do?
And then I explain-
No.
Oh, I cannot.
You get that?
I cannot.
I never heard this kind of-
My Singaporean stuff all coming out.
Huh.
Canah.
But I just laugh.
No, I've never heard that, you know. I've never heard that coming from anyone.
So it's funny. So I get that from, say, maybe my generation or younger.
Right.
But I've had the experience of, I remember this one time I was at a funeral week,
and a question was asked about something. I can't remember what.
I didn't have the answer. You know what my uncle said to me?
Hmm. You radio DJ, you're supposed to know everything before you go on air, right?
Oh, really?
No, and this was just general knowledge, you know.
I know you sigh, but for me in that moment, I went, wow,
that is the expectation of us from your generation.
Oh, you're being so kind just thinking that way.
How interesting. Yeah. I mean-
You're being so kind.
Why be negative?
I would- my answer would be, my answer would be, hey man, if I knew everything today, I'd be-
I'd be running the country.
Also, it was a funeral week. So I turned around and-
I'm sorry man.
Thanks uncle. Nice to see you too.
I wouldn't. I would have just gone for it.
I don't want to see you anymore.
Regardless. Regardless, man. Let's talk about something more fun.
Okay. Let's go for something more fun.
Yeah.
So you- you're a man, you know what I'm saying?
Yeah. Back to this, okay.
Who is your all-time favorite player, man?
Wow. And don't laugh at me. I actually started watching United or deciding to support United.
I think it was 95, Wimbledon, David Beckham, 55 yards against Nielsen.
I don't blame you, man.
Yeah. I like this team. They're quite stylish.
Yeah.
And I think we lost or we had just lost the title to Blackburn previously. So it was not exactly-
it was a team in transition. This was the year, you know, all the kids started to play.
Yeah. The class of 95.
Because it's a- and Sir Alex Ferguson, I don't mean for this to sound the wrong way.
I always consider Sir Alex Ferguson like my second father because I learned about life through him.
Courage, bravery, express yourself. You know, he watched these documentaries.
Even after he retired, you know, the things that he teaches at Harvard, right?
Yeah.
Wow.
Leadership.
It's not like these guys are fantastic.
Can you name yourself fantastic right back?
Yeah. Yeah.
It's like a chicken when he runs around.
But they gave their all.
They gave their all.
Yeah.
That's why I try. I try to have that mindset.
Oh, okay. Bureaucracy, rules, regulations, but what can I do in this scenario?
Within that sphere. Within that tight space that you're-
I try. I try.
Yeah. Yeah. So who? David Beckham.
David Beckham.
Have you ever had a chance to interview him?
No.
Oh, man.
So that's-
But he- that guy's been- he like comes in and out of Singapore more often than Gene Levin.
But I never got the chance and when I- and I'm not gonna lie, before I left on my final
show on April 30th, I spent about three weeks. Okay. Maybe there's a wave on the phone or Zoom.
Just that one last one. That one last one for me.
MBS. The fellow always goes there, man.
They stop replying my email.
So this is the one- this is just the one guy-
That you want to-
Yeah. Because I know that and maybe it's just as well because, yeah, and you've seen his
documentary as well. I knew about those because I was- I read his biographies and everything.
So that the- how he overcome- overcame all of that mental strength is what I'm interested in.
Crazy and what he went through.
Exactly.
It's ridiculous, man.
And you're not putting him up on a pedestal, but hey, if a man can do this,
maybe you can do half of it. Maybe you can try. So for me, this is that one-
I think Bex deserves everything he has now.
Yeah. Yeah. This is that one thing that- that the one interview that I never got a chance to have.
Oh man.
Yeah. Just too bad.
So Tenhark, Eric Tenhark.
Oh, you're really getting into it.
Keep him or lose him?
Keep him.
Why?
I have always felt this way since Fergie left. It's never been the managers. I'm even fine with
David Moyes or Ole Gunnar Sosha. It's the players.
Yeah. The prima donnas, man, in locker room.
I'm very Roy Keane about this. He's got to play with some heart, man.
Remember when Roy Keane said, old school? What do you call old school?
Working hard, turning up for training.
It's true.
Oh, that's good, man.
Is that old school?
Fuck, that's good, man. That's a good kiddo, man. Oh man.
But it's true.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I've always- I'm with you there. I've always- and you know, I hate the fact that sometimes I see
United fans, yeah, how stupid some of them can be. Or every time something goes wrong,
sack the manager. Sack the manager. It gets on my tits, man.
Oh wow, okay.
And to me, it's like-
Very deep tits to carry that much.
Thank you. Every time you get rid of a manager, we regress. Three years at least. Yeah.
And you're always a process. And you hear this again for everyone. It's a process. It's a process.
It's a process. Then let the whichever, whoever that we've hired as a manager, work his process.
And the only thing that they did right was bringing in Jim Radcliffe, putting in together
that structure, taking away responsibility from Tenhark of buying players because he tends to buy
what he knows. Is it his fault?
No.
Everyone does that. Even Mourinho did that.
Exactly.
The manumatix, right?
Yeah. So put together and in front- So this is, I would love to just ask and answer my own question.
I don't know whether you put it in your stack there. Would I ever go back to redo? And my answer would
be, just for the sake of it, support. If you go into a company, a place, an entertainment entity,
or whatever it is, as long as it's okay with rules, okay with expectations, that's all well and good.
I can train my mind, no problem, but support.
So give you a support structure.
Support is everything. It's everything. Not support in that, hey, I want to do this. I want to
pull the line and everything. Just because you reject me doesn't mean you don't support me at all.
But that line of communication is clear. That structure needs to be clear. That trust needs
to be clear. And it's very clear, back to Manchester United, half of them don't trust each other.
Yeah. Is it a manager's fault?
Nope. But you know, I realize-
It's a chance for you. You take a chance for it.
I realize, I'm glad I brought Man United up and this issue about Eric Tanhag and, you know, the team.
Because if we were to relate it to what you just said, which you did, you related it right.
You know, to me, it's prevalent everywhere. Everywhere or anywhere or any place or any country
that's tightly regulated, like the UK, they're tightly regulated. We are very regulated in this
country. There's no secret, right?
You need it, right?
Yeah. We need it, but there is such a term called over-regulated as well.
Fair.
I'm not saying we are. I'm not saying we're not, but I am saying that we are quite, we are definitely
tightly regulated.
We're high.
We're high on that, yeah.
And then when you have people who live and work, players included, in countries like that, right,
what do you get? Everyone's just going to be looking out for themselves.
And that's what you get. You see everyone, including the entities, you know, looking out
for number one. And when looking out for number one, which is me, I, me, and there's no Irene,
you start to just, you know, you start to get so selfish that you don't have team anymore, man.
Okay. So I think that applies everywhere. And I've seen it, see it every day here in Singapore.
The difference is we have something else to blame. Or regulation.
No, no, no, no, no. I'm not blaming it. I'm just saying that don't you think that when your place,
look man, you take anything, you take an animal, a human being, you put him in a plastic cage and
you suck out all the oxygen. That's his environment now. He's going to suffocate and he's going to die.
Right? So it's not, what do you blame then? You blame the person that puts you into that
bloody freaking plastic cage and take out, suck out the oxygen, right?
Well, in that scenario you would.
Wouldn't it be, I mean, if you were to compare that, wouldn't it sound like the same thing?
You're in an environment that you are in and these support structures are either not given
or taken away, either one or the other, then you can't do anything. You can't move on. You can't
breathe. You can't. So this is my peeve. And since the main topic is job, let me use that
and bring up something else. When you work in a corporate structure, where do you see HR?
First day, last day.
Why is there no such thing as a chief retention officer? Oh, what a buzzword. How do you retain?
It's retained via engagement. How do you engage? Communicate. Not an email.
No one's going to do that, man.
No, but if you want, you talk about environment, right? And this is back to the environment. So
let's use a hypothetical.
No, I want to have that, but no one's going to do it.
The person leaves a company, right? He's pushed out. He or she is pushed out. He leaves a company,
right? For example. And this person says, well, the air was sucked out. I had to go.
So the person has dealt with that. Does the company deal with it? Does the company sit down
and go, I think we sucked out the air and kind of forced him to leave or her to leave.
So how can we do better from that?
No, they're not going to do that.
No, but if we are talking about culture, we're talking about jobs.
The exit interview.
At least ask the career strategist, Adrian. Why isn't there more thought into retention?
Because the first thing, oh, skills future, $4,000. Now I can go in and study. Boss, I want to go in and study.
You're planning to change jobs. Is it so difficult to ask, okay, how can I get you to stay or how can I fulfill you more?
Because your job as a manager, maybe this is KPI, maybe this is structure. Someone saying, oh, Elliot, you don't know.
You've never been in corporate world. Maybe you're all right. But the job of a leader is not about you.
But most of the time I know I need to jaga because I lead a little someone promoted above me.
Your job as a leader, sorry, you've got a tough gig. You need to cultivate. You're cultivating people.
Your job is the people under you. And if they do good, you will shine.
Like even in what I love to use is these insurance setup or financial planner setup.
You see good boss, good agency head. Most likely everyone's happy and working and motivated and cultivated.
I met this guy recently. His name is Chuan Hai, if I'm pronouncing it right. All his people follow his system.
Is it ex-military man? People follow his system. They are happy.
He is not going, how much does he go out to sell? He just make sure his people figures out how to sell and goes out there and get the job done.
That's leadership to me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm not going to, like I said, I'm not going to dwell so much on that particular thing.
But I would just...
I understand. But my point of view is that what is the point of having an exit interview when you're not going to be learning from that interview as a company?
Because it jeopardizes my position as HR. Oh, it means my company was actually bad.
Or my company was flawed. There's nothing wrong with that.
Well, what to do? That's the world we live in man.
Christ will kill you.
I know, but that's the world we live in man. I mean, don't get me the wrong way. I'm not disagreeing with you.
I'm just being resigned to the fact that that's how things are like.
I like and I really don't see anything, you know, that will happen to make things change at this time.
But anyway, man, I really appreciate you being on the show.
I mean, you really did the mic drop. You left radio. A job you learned to love.
Yeah, you did a job you learned to love because it wasn't a calling.
And sometimes it's like that, right? You don't necessarily have to have a calling.
Well, yeah. I've always had one and it's still calling me anyway.
And I wish you the best. Thank you, man. I hope you get whatever you...
Do you know I'm a big fan of this show. I'm really, really excited to be here today. Seriously.
I'm not kidding you. I was sucking myself up. I'm like, okay, I'm going to Chris Henson's.
Well, I hope I didn't disappoint.
How long, Elliot, how long do you think before... I talked to myself. How long do you think before you score is a bad word?
Then maybe he scores first, then you score, right?
And then we can bond that way as bros, right?
And then when is he going to talk about menu? When he talks about menu, it'd be awesome.
But I didn't expect the photos.
No, seriously, I'm not... I mean, I had to do a little bit of research.
I love this show. I love what you're doing because it's real.
Thank you. Appreciate that, man.
I'm serious. I appreciate that.
It's real and I do not believe... I do not believe you need radio.
Uh huh. Wow. I don't. Really.
You just need a place to express yourself and you're doing it.
Yeah, I am.
With 31,000 plus plus subscribers. Come on, man. That's amazing.
Well, you know, I mean...
I know radio DJs who don't achieve that.
I am... All I can say is I'm having a lot of fun.
I meet guys like you, you know, I get all kinds of people coming on the show.
Small walks of life.
It's a learning experience as well when you listen to them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's quite fun.
For me, I learn a lot, man. Trust you, me.
And then, you know, I shake in my... No boots, I'm always barefoot. It's home.
I'm home. This is my home.
And, you know, singing songs with people like Aliyah, people like John Klaas.
And then recently, you're going to be watching The Soon, you too, with Mel Ferdinand.
That should be a treat.
Yeah, and you know, I've got some more coming, you know, my tribute show to Singapore's music icons.
Because I do whatever I can to make sure that people really...
Singapore start to recognize who our musos are, who our entertainers are, who our DJs are even.
Yeah, you know, yeah, really.
Because I really feel that...
It's like you said, it's a service.
Yes.
And not anyone can just pick up a microphone or pick up an instrument and entertain you, man.
Yeah.
Yeah. So I love entertainers. I love musos.
I do whatever I can to make sure that somehow, somehow they notice.
And by the way, you are an entertainer.
Well, I...
From the heart, I mean it.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Oh man. I don't know. But for some strange reason, I've never really seen myself that way.
By the way, that's not for you to say. It's for everyone around you to call you an entertainer.
Thank you.
That's how it works. Apparently.
Thanks so very much.
And Frank, I miss listening to you on air. I miss listening to you even for the news, man.
Oh gosh.
Because to me, you know, frankly, dude, because to me, it is an important role.
All you jocks out there on radio, I'm saying this to all of you too, that people are listening to you regardless.
There are those who are even older who are not listening to digital devices.
Yeah. Joe might disagree with me again still.
There are those who are in the cabs and grab cars and they're out driving the whole day.
You know, they can be playing. They can Bluetooth with their phone and all that.
But I'm pretty sure there's a lot of people like me where I still have radio on. So, you know.
I would say to that, right?
Yeah.
And that's what kept me or that is what kept me going to be better is the fact that I'm fully aware people have a choice.
You could be their choice. Digital device could be their choice.
Yep.
Or some US station could be their choice.
Yep.
Remember, we live in a world where everyone has a choice.
True. And because there are those like me who have that choice, who make that choice, take that decision to tune in to some station somewhere.
Right. Especially our own local ones. It is still an important job because you are talking to your fellow citizens.
Correct. So, I have to be better because someone made me a choice. Right?
Mm-hmm.
So, all these rules, IMDA code, boss say don't do this, sales say don't do this. That's all white noise.
Yep.
It's not between me and the listener.
Yep.
I will never go on and say all you listeners, because that's like, I don't know. You're obviously not thinking about the listener.
Yeah.
It's thank you for tuning in.
Yeah.
If you're going out today, if you don't know this, I will share it with you. It's just me and you. But actually, you know, everyone's listening, right?
Yeah.
It's the relationship that we learn that fundamentals just me and you.
Just take one, just imagine when you're behind a console, your can's on the mic in front of you.
Yeah.
And you're speaking to that one person.
And that one person.
And who did I learn this from? Joe Gaston.
Yep.
Right?
Yep. Yep. Yep.
Wow, Joe got a lot of mentions today. He didn't mention me when he was on your show. So, this is a bit of revenge.
Oh, well. Joe, Joe, Joe, you're still a very prolific individual. Trust me. Anyway, bro, thank you so very much, man.
I wish you the very best. I hope to hear. I don't know whether that's really going to be what you want again, but every now and then, if you do get back on there, that'd be great.
You never know.
Yeah. If not, if you're going to start another podcast, sit down and have a cup of coffee with me first.
It won't be a conflict of this.
No, no, no, no.
I know what my lane is.
No, no, no, no, brother. It's not about that. We never know how we can collaborate.
Yeah.
You never know, man.
There you go. Positive mindset.
That's the only reason why I said that because you want to start something online. This, we can always sit down and talk. You never know where things might take the both of us.
But anyway, I appreciate the time, brother.
Thank you, sir.
Really, man. Thank you, bro. Guys, you've been watching the Chris Hansen conversation I've had with me. Elliot Danker has been, wow, what a chat, man. What a chat.
He out-talked me today.
All right, everybody. Until the next time, stick around, okay? Because you'll be seeing and watching a tribute show pretty soon to music icons in Singapore.
We still have a few, one or two more episodes to go for. I love my job for season. Kai, which one is it again? Four.
I didn't forget this time. Until next time, people. Stay safe. Yeah. Bye-bye.
Condenser, right? Can't, ah?
No, no. It's not condenser, bro.
Dynamic.
So powerful, ah?
Yeah. Amazing.
My experience is that you have to be disc... Oh, but this is a show, right?
Sure, bro.
No wonder it sounds so nice.
You're always sure. Sure, man. For sure.
Except the hours from 12 midnight to 2 a.m.
Ah, well.