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as a result of one speech, how many more bookings you get.

2
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Yeah, sure.

3
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Yeah, so my mentor, he got a total of 18 bookings.

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Okay.

5
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So you can imagine it was a big event.

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We had leaders from 10 different countries.

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Guess how many bookings I got?

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How many?

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Zero.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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And that was that first identity crisis to say,

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am I fit to do this speak and entertain job?

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Because fundamentally, you know, I don't think I'm an entertainer.

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Today, this guest in my studio is going to pop my cherry.

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Pop your cherry.

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Let me tell you why you'll be popping my cherry today.

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Because right now, we are into season four.

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And you, not the first episode though, but you are our first shoot.

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First shoot.

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This is the first shoot for the new season.

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Oh, right.

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Yeah.

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I thought agent two was the...

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So it's the third season.

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No, this is the season four.

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So you are my first guest for season four, man.

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You just popped my cherry, dude.

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Cheers.

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Cheers.

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My pleasure, my pleasure.

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On a Friday afternoon.

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On a Friday afternoon.

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Now everybody knows this is a Friday afternoon.

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It's a Friday afternoon.

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And very happy, of course, to get behind this hot seat.

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My goodness gracious me.

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It's just nice, not too warm.

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My seat's always hot.

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And it's great to be back because how long...

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Can I take a break for?

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Two months?

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About two months, right?

44
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So we took a two-month break.

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Season three is still being aired at this time of the shoot.

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And of course, after two months coming back, I said,

47
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Oh my, it's been some time.

48
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So what do I do?

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Who should I invite in the show?

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And what I've done is, people, we are still rolling,

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and I know that you're watching.

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So what I've done is I made a decision.

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I'm going to ask this young man to come into the studio.

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As you can tell, right now, we are now definitely starting the show.

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And I want to read out some credentials to make you understand why

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I've decided to have this young person here on my gig.

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Welcome to the Chris Hansen Conversation for season four.

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And my guest for the show is the youngest certified speaking professional,

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and accolade for the top 12% of professional speakers,

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executive speaking coach, and specialist in helping leaders

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and professionals be top of mind.

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I've got to find out what the fuck that means.

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As a public speaking coach and professional speaker,

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my guest partners his executive clients from companies,

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loads of them from banks to stat boards, etc., etc.

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To enhance their performance on stage, sounds like my fucking job.

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And communicate effectively across generations, definitely not my job.

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He is also one of the youngest associate certified coach.

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How many things does this guy have?

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In Singapore and APAC, credentialed by the International Coach Federation.

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His work has also been covered on over 60 occasions

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on over 10 media platforms like Channel News Asia,

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Radio Television Hong Kong, and The Straits Times.

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And of course today, the biggest one of all,

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CCB TV on a Chris Hansen Conversation.

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I'm not shy. Fuck that.

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To everyone, please welcome to the studio for this episode of I love my job series,

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Benjamin Lo!

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Welcome to the studio, my friend.

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Thank you so much, Chris.

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It's like almost like deja vu.

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I still could recall like, was it like over a decade back?

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It was in Ayur Raja.

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Good gosh.

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Good gosh, right?

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Like I was your student, I was your mentee in the MC Academy.

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Your virgin batch, right?

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So that time you popped my cherry.

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We take turns, man.

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We take turns.

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Ben, thank you for being here, man.

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I'm very proud of your achievements.

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I'm very proud of all these things I've just read out, dude.

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I mean, wow, wowee.

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Your dream, wasn't it?

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It's always been your dream.

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Well, I think dream is a huge, huge word.

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I mean, there's different renditions, different backstories I like to tell.

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I mean, as far as I could recall, I was a petulant, overweight, chubby kid.

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No shit, come on.

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Yeah, I was.

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I was.

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I still am, you know, with like different parts of-

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Are you kidding me?

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Don't say that in front of me.

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No, we're both on camera right now, man.

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Come on.

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Thankfully, with the cameras and technology, they can do a bit of like a smooth thing.

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Oh yeah, I wish.

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For real, for real, for real.

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Like when I was much, much younger, the peak weight was like three digits, right?

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And three digits was quite confronting for someone at 12, 13 years old.

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You were three digits at 12, 13?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I was like morbidly obese and you can imagine the kind of like confidence I had,

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the kind of like self-esteem or the lack of I had.

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But one thing I always recall, because you asked me about my dream, right?

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Yeah, yeah.

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I would come back from primary school or secondary school and my grandma was saying,

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oh, go and bathe, go and bathe and she was a Hainanese matriarch.

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But thankfully I was a boy and the only boy in the family.

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So, you know, I had a bit of like a bargaining power.

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So I was saying, no, grandma, I'm not going to bathe.

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And what did a boy do back then was that my eyes were all glued to the television.

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Yeah.

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And what was on the television was not like, you know, the cartoons or documentaries or

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not even news, God for sake.

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It was like a Mandarin debate in Chinese is called 國際大專辯論會

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or in English is the International Varsity Debate.

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And I didn't know why, but you know, I was just like mesmerized.

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How old were you then? Were you watching that?

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13, 14 years old.

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Okay.

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Yeah. And I still didn't know like what that meant to me.

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I just saw people like having verbal sparring.

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They were so eloquent, so composed.

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Debates.

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Ternesh. Yeah, debates.

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And I said like, wow, like I do not know what I'm going to do,

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but if I could get a bit of that, that would be a bit of my dream.

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Really?

142
00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:07,040
So what you're saying to me is that, okay, okay.

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So what I said about this is your dream job.

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And so therefore, this was a dream.

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It still is a dream, right?

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I mean, when you were 13, 14, you were watching TV,

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you're watching the varsity debates in Chinese.

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And you're going, wow, I want to be like them.

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So this is a dream.

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But you said dream is a big word.

151
00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:24,960
Yeah. Yeah.

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00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,240
Because dream is a big word when it starts to hit reality, right?

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00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,560
So obviously when I started to go through school

154
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and both of us are sort of in Singapore,

155
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I think the society has a different plan for me.

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I studied, like went through the usual school, JC, university.

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I had placement to even go to the UK to study economics,

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which, you know, required me to get a sort of scholarship.

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I turned it down and then I asked myself what they want to do.

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So when I was on my bed in NS, I was like, wow, what should I do?

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I was flipping through the magazines of Forbes and Fortune

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and they said investment banking, sort of like graduates make five figures.

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So I stupidly just did that.

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But the back story was that my mom was so,

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she used to sell golf clubs all living.

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She said, you know, Ben, just go become a CFO.

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And I asked her like, hey mom, why?

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Why CFO? Is it like because it got C?

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No, it's the C, F and O because she reports to the chief financial officer.

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And in Hokkien, she say, you know, every month, just yin yin ting ting,

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just shake the legs and he'll be drawing like 20K.

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So it's study accounting, finance, and that would be it.

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Story has that after the first year,

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I realized that I was never a numbers guy.

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I could never balance my cash flow statements.

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Everyone was left and right was balancing.

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You know, I was the cuckoo.

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I just never tie in that 20 cent, 30 cent.

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It's like, I look at myself, I felt like a retard in accounting school.

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Yeah, I studied accounting in a big three university

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and my professors always ask me like, why are you here?

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Yeah, why are you here?

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And that bad, huh?

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Yeah, that bad.

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And that was when I had my existential crisis.

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I went through a life coaching program.

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I decided to say, hey, maybe my talents were in teaching.

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Can I stop you there for a moment?

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Please do.

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Let me just bring you way back again.

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Yeah.

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Let's go back to you as a kid.

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You were saying you had self-esteem issues, etc., etc., etc.

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What did it make you say, you know, when you were in your teen years?

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How would you describe yourself back then?

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Would you have described yourself to be someone that would be what you are today?

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Standing on stage, teaching people how to be, how to speak in public,

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and everything else that you do today.

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When you look at yourself back then...

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I think they always say like, hindsight is 20-20.

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I like to, you know, like with the benefit of hindsight, say,

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00:08:33,680 --> 00:08:35,760
ah, everything was made to be like this.

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But I think the best way I would look at it was like, you know,

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another mentor told me there's a difference between scars and wounds.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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So back then, I was wounded.

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Going through school, boy school for 10 years, and then,

209
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and boys being in boy school, right, it's not like when girls are around,

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everyone will be very gentlemanly, you know, like show the door,

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00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:53,760
you know, they give me the middle finger.

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00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:54,320
They were just like...

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00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:55,680
Which school is this, don't mind me asking.

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00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:56,640
Oh yeah, St. Andrews.

215
00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:57,600
I went to St. Andrews.

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00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,440
I went to St. Andrews and then Maristella.

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00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:00,720
Oh, the rough and rugged guys.

218
00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,200
Yeah, but you know, the guys there, you know, they are the nice guys.

219
00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,200
It's a rugby school, man, as far as I'm concerned.

220
00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,120
Maristella was a mixed bag.

221
00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,160
It's a Chinese school and got a few like Pai Kea there.

222
00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,200
So you, I mean Maristella, Pai Kea is nothing compared to...

223
00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:14,160
Yeah, compared.

224
00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:14,960
Everything's relative.

225
00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,800
Yeah, but then again, so when you, in being in Maristella,

226
00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,720
would you describe yourself to be a smart kid academically?

227
00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:27,280
I felt that I had to be smart to find some sense of self-esteem.

228
00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:27,840
Right.

229
00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,880
Yeah, so my whole journey was that I was being bullied in school.

230
00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,000
I was bad at sports or at least I thought I was.

231
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,680
I was bad at, you know, chasing girls.

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00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:38,640
There weren't any girls anyway, except for a boy scout going to like girl gags,

233
00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:39,920
you know, all these big events.

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00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,080
I had social anxiety issues.

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00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,600
I can't look at girl in an eye and without my leg shaking, it was that bad.

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00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,680
So the only area or only place I could find some worth was in my academics.

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00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:50,000
Right.

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00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,240
And I did well in school, got top three, stuff like that.

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00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,600
So that was how I constantly pursue, pursue, push, push, push, push, push.

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I find I needed to use schooling as a way to validate myself.

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00:09:59,040 --> 00:09:59,440
Right.

242
00:09:59,440 --> 00:09:59,680
Yeah.

243
00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:03,760
So it was kind of sad, but you see like that was the period where I was wounded.

244
00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:04,160
Right.

245
00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,920
Now, as I look back and say, ah, because of all this bully history,

246
00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,920
all the social anxiety issues, all those like a lack of significance.

247
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:16,080
Now, because of all that, that sort of fuels me in terms of what I do.

248
00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,160
So when you watched the Varsity Debates back then, when you were in your early teens, right?

249
00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:20,800
Yeah.

250
00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:28,320
And you were, lack of a better term, mesmerized by what you saw.

251
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:29,120
I was, I was.

252
00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:29,840
Yeah.

253
00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:35,360
So being mesmerized by what you saw, and then you were bullied in school,

254
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:42,480
you lean on your academics to get yourself great there.

255
00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:55,120
Throughout that time, did you still hold on to that dream of being able to do what?

256
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,200
To be a speaker or a debater?

257
00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:58,160
Not at all.

258
00:10:58,160 --> 00:10:59,040
Then, okay.

259
00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,680
So what happened to that drive then?

260
00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:06,960
At 13, 14, watching the Varsity Debates and go, wow, you know, if I can only do that.

261
00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:07,600
Yeah.

262
00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,600
So what did you do to get yourself, I mean, even at that young age,

263
00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:16,800
I just want to understand, was there, did that seed really sprout as you were growing?

264
00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:23,760
Did you find a way to be the Benjamin Lowe of today and the last, how long has it been?

265
00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,120
More than a decade of doing what you've been doing successfully.

266
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:28,080
Yeah.

267
00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:29,120
What's that journey like?

268
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,760
Was there something in that journey that led you there from that time?

269
00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,120
Because I don't know, for all you know, man, you've got parents watching the show,

270
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:38,320
kids shouldn't be watching the show.

271
00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,560
You've got parents watching the show, right?

272
00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:45,200
And these parents might want to try to understand that how would I get my kid

273
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,720
to do what Ben has done?

274
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:50,400
Or maybe they should just leave it to the kid.

275
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:52,160
I would say leave it to the kid.

276
00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,480
But just in case you got some of these, you know,

277
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,320
these parents who just like to do some helicoptering.

278
00:11:58,880 --> 00:11:59,380
Yeah.

279
00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:04,160
I say that, I say that as a sigh because I need to really preface, right?

280
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,240
I mean, first and foremost, I don't even know whether parents would want their children to be

281
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:09,440
in my life, in my shoes.

282
00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,040
I like to say- Why not?

283
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,880
Well, I'm doing as a result of like, I mean, on one part, I love the work I do.

284
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:16,320
I feel that it's full of impact.

285
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:21,520
It's creating a lot of like very tangible moments of joy of the kind of results.

286
00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,840
But you see, my trajectory into it wasn't clean.

287
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:24,800
Sure.

288
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:25,200
Yeah.

289
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:26,320
It wasn't clean in that sense.

290
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,160
Not that, you know, I had like a few intentions.

291
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:33,600
So, Ben, are you saying to me then that maybe this is something that, you know,

292
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,200
people should not endeavor to become?

293
00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,360
I think you should endeavor to become if your intentions are definitely clean,

294
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,680
you're aware and you know what you're stepping to.

295
00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:43,280
So is it worth the while for them?

296
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:45,280
Well, it all depends.

297
00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:45,760
Yeah.

298
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,280
I mean, it's going to be a rough road.

299
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,960
Like, I mean, I'm happy to share in my latter chapters of like what it takes to be a speaker,

300
00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:52,960
to be paid, to be paid well, to be sustainable.

301
00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,280
I will come to that because I have that ready for you actually, but let's not talk about that yet.

302
00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:01,760
So, okay, let's listen to your journey then.

303
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:02,320
Yeah.

304
00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,360
So for you, was it accidental?

305
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:06,160
It was accidental.

306
00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,640
So you use the right word, it's a seed, right?

307
00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,680
So I look at seed because the seed was just planted in me.

308
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:12,160
Right.

309
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:16,640
And when I look at the debaters, it was really like, wow, if I could be having the kind of

310
00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,160
like significance as them.

311
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,160
But you see, sometimes when we want something, it's a sign that we lack it inside.

312
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:22,960
Mm-hmm.

313
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:27,680
So for me, I don't want to overcomplicate things, but you know, when 13, 14 years was really

314
00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:32,080
at my lowest where I didn't feel that there was a sense of self-worth and it was like,

315
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,360
and it was also because, you know, like our pre-conversations, my dad, my mom was so busy

316
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:39,520
working, I wish someone would just like sit down with me, take me to school and say, hey,

317
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,920
like Ben, what exactly do you want to do?

318
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:42,240
Right.

319
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,080
You see, so that seed was like something that I had to grab for.

320
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,640
It was not something that was brought up from within me.

321
00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:48,960
Right.

322
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:49,200
Yeah.

323
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,120
So I could imagine, I don't know, right?

324
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:56,960
Because if someone that I trust, I look up to, I love, could sit me through that painful

325
00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,320
growing up years, I may be doing something different.

326
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:00,640
Right.

327
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,640
Maybe artist, musician, I mean, something else.

328
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:02,960
Right.

329
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:03,120
Yeah.

330
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,520
But it was a seed that was planted and made sense of it.

331
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,440
It's a bit like, you know, I was forced, I won't say I was forced, I was inspired to

332
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,120
love what I did and thankfully for the large part of it, I really love it.

333
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:18,480
When you say someone that you know that you love, that means a loved one.

334
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:18,720
Yeah.

335
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:19,040
Right?

336
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:20,160
A parent, elder, senior.

337
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:20,400
Oh sure.

338
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:20,720
Yeah.

339
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,920
Who would sit down with you and give you some guidance, is that what you're saying?

340
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:24,080
Yeah.

341
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:24,160
Yeah.

342
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:30,240
Now, which means what you're saying is that it is important throughout most parts of our

343
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:37,840
lives to have someone who knows better, our betters basically, to mentor us.

344
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:39,680
Is that what you're saying?

345
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,160
I would say to mentor, but more importantly to give space.

346
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:43,120
Can I tell a quick story?

347
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:43,600
Sure, please.

348
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:43,840
Yeah.

349
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,520
So in my earlier years, you know, when I was featured as like a sort of like a highly

350
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,840
achieving youth, back then when I was still qualified to be a youth at SMU, you know,

351
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,240
I still recall I was on the Sunday Times.

352
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,600
It was like, you know, the all performing or the star youth whatsoever.

353
00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:02,240
I then received an email which led to a call the very, very like, you know, a couple of days later.

354
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,640
It was like this lady from bank.

355
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,120
And I was wondering like, you know, like why did she want to meet me?

356
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,040
She said, hey, I want you to coach my son.

357
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:10,000
I said, okay.

358
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,960
Back then I was doing a bit of youth coaching, but I didn't know why.

359
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,800
So until I realized that after I met her, she said that her relationship with her son was

360
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:22,560
trained and she wanted me to coach her son for her son to do something like me.

361
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,640
Then the first reflex was that what made you think that your son wanted to do whatever I'm doing?

362
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:26,960
Yeah.

363
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:27,440
You see?

364
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:27,920
Yeah.

365
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:32,640
So that was in a case, good intentions, but is that really what the son want?

366
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,400
It's not giving space to the son, right?

367
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,880
So I had to turn down the job because, you know, I don't want to be responsible for

368
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,440
steering someone down that path that, you know, he or she will be unhappy with.

369
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:42,560
Yeah.

370
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,120
So why did I say this?

371
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:45,600
Yeah.

372
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,160
Like, so you said mentor, right?

373
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,680
So I think mentor is like that assumption that, you know, you want to linearly lead

374
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,440
the person down a sort of a path.

375
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,760
But then again, some parents are not fit to be mentoring.

376
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:56,320
Exactly.

377
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:56,800
Right.

378
00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,480
I would say like mentoring, coaching, giving space, but really...

379
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,040
This is shoving it down the kid's throat, that is, right?

380
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:03,360
Yeah.

381
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:03,520
Yeah.

382
00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:05,040
Like this example you just cited.

383
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:05,360
Correct.

384
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,200
Because they saw me on the papers as like a highly achieving kid, but they didn't know

385
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,280
like, you know, I was highly happy as a kid.

386
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:12,400
I was highly joyful as a kid.

387
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,880
So they've actually placed an expectation on the child.

388
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:15,600
Yeah.

389
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:16,000
Yeah.

390
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,640
Which it might not really be suited to the kid.

391
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,200
The kid might not have that same expectation.

392
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,720
And then we all grow up living other people's expectations rather than ours.

393
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,720
Someone else's life, someone else's dreams.

394
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:27,120
Yeah.

395
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:27,520
Yeah.

396
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:28,000
Fuck me.

397
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,360
Tell me all about that.

398
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:29,860
Yeah.

399
00:16:29,860 --> 00:16:30,880
It hurts, man.

400
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:31,600
It hurts, man.

401
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:31,920
It does.

402
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:32,880
Let's not go to a pain here.

403
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:33,520
It does.

404
00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:33,760
It does.

405
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:35,040
We need a little Kleenex right now.

406
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:39,520
So you fell into this.

407
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,880
So it was actually kind of accidental.

408
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:43,840
It was very accidental.

409
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:50,000
But you knew always that you've had this draw towards being able to speak well publicly.

410
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:52,480
Is that the right way for me to describe this?

411
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,760
I think speaking well publicly is the function of it.

412
00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:56,800
It's a prerequisite.

413
00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,280
But I think the debate story planted the need to want to be useful.

414
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,320
To have the ability to persuade, convince.

415
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,680
Then later parts of different mentors I met, it's like,

416
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,680
think this mega jigsaw puzzle.

417
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,880
Oh, what it means by the speaker is you can sort of travel the world.

418
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:13,760
Ah, I like that.

419
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:15,680
Oh, what it means by a speaker means that, no,

420
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,400
you have a big mandate and responsibility on stage.

421
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:19,600
You better don't screw that up.

422
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:20,880
You don't talk out on stage.

423
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:21,920
Ah, I want that.

424
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,880
So I sort of like to each and every, the people I look up to,

425
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,360
even for you, like when I went for your class and FD,

426
00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:30,480
I will always recall the kind of meticulousness you all put,

427
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:31,840
the kind of intention you all put.

428
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,560
You all say the MCs are not just MCs, you know, reading out scripts,

429
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,000
setting the tone, setting the energy.

430
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,600
You see, more than 10 years, I still recall.

431
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,760
It's like that also applies to me as a speaker.

432
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,320
You see, you don't just go there and say a bunch of words.

433
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,000
It's all about the kind of frame of mind.

434
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:48,560
So with all the teachers I learned, I think I then have a map or a jigsaw puzzle

435
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,800
that comprise or builds up what I believe this occupational profession should be.

436
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,200
So when you mentioned this occupation profession is strictly as a speaker, right?

437
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,600
But you picked a subject matter and the subject matter,

438
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:07,680
I think you have a few, but what I gather for what the public can see is public speaking.

439
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:08,080
Yeah.

440
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:08,640
Am I right?

441
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:10,560
Why that discipline?

442
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,520
Well, I started out coaching youths in public speaking,

443
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,880
particularly because that was my call to courage, my call to

444
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,080
maturity as well, because I felt that, you know, back then I didn't have many things

445
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,880
that I could be good at, or at least that was what I thought.

446
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:26,960
I was better at arts, I was better at sports.

447
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:28,160
I was better at chasing girls.

448
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,720
You know, I'm not even like, you know, having like cheesy looks.

449
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,760
The only thing I could do is like, I can speak quite okay.

450
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:38,080
Can you imagine if Benjamin Lowe becomes a speaker about how you can actually chase girls?

451
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:38,560
Yeah.

452
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:39,520
That'd be great, man.

453
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:42,720
But you see, it's all the narratives that we had in our head, right?

454
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,800
So that was why, you know, like I, again, I don't blame my dad or my mom.

455
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:51,520
You know, they did the best that they could, but you see now in my role, I feel I'm a bit more aware.

456
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,680
I want to be nurturing my three-year-old to say, hey, you know, as you go down there,

457
00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:00,800
I love the conversation you had is you have that awareness to build up the map for your kid to say,

458
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:05,600
hey, if you go down that path, this is the potential consequences, both the good, both the bad.

459
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:07,840
If you go down this, this is what you should consider, you see.

460
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,040
Well, I want to dissect this, Ben.

461
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:10,640
I'm still trying to understand.

462
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:11,440
I know it's very murky.

463
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:16,400
Of all, yeah, because of all the things out there that one can actually specialize in,

464
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,400
specialize and speak about.

465
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,640
You chose public speaking.

466
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:21,520
Yeah.

467
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:22,800
I'd like to dissect that.

468
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:28,000
I'd like to understand what is it about public speaking that got to you,

469
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,640
that made you want to take this on and go, I want to teach people that.

470
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,280
But I think before you do that, right, correct me if I'm wrong,

471
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,360
you want to make sure that you can do it first.

472
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,000
Did you do that first?

473
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:42,880
What did you do?

474
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,880
I think for me, the easiest iteration would be, you know, I had to find my voice first.

475
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:47,440
Yeah.

476
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:53,680
So metaphorically to discover like, you know, I had a voice inside, you know, but I was voiceless.

477
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:58,880
So sometimes I block on LinkedIn to say, growing up, I literally had all the good grades, you know,

478
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:03,920
the A's, the PSLE and stuff like that, but I didn't really feel that, you know, I was having a voice.

479
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,240
It was just like going through the motion.

480
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:10,000
And I think my first call to maturity was learning how to speak.

481
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,400
And when, again, it sounds very fluffy, but when you put content into the speech,

482
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:18,400
when you bring the words out from you and you feel what you say and you say what you feel,

483
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:20,880
it was when I felt that I was really alive.

484
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:22,080
Okay.

485
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,080
So you felt that, hey, I like this.

486
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:24,560
Yeah.

487
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,280
As a 19, 20 years old, when I started to do like maybe Toastmasters, hey, I realized that I can speak.

488
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,360
And sometimes I speak and I make sense.

489
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:32,720
So you found your voice.

490
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:33,440
Yeah.

491
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:34,240
Okay.

492
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:35,680
And it was that journey.

493
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,440
And then, you know, piecing back my backstory as a bully victim, as a victim,

494
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:44,880
bully victim, my backstory as a self-esteem, low self-esteem person, being in a sort of like every

495
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,720
Singaporean family, you know, I didn't have like the best tuition, like no, some kids does,

496
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,440
sending you to Julia Gabriel and debate and whatnot.

497
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,720
You know, my family is not like that well-to-do, but I still could speak.

498
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:59,360
I won a couple of trophies and then say, hey, if I could do it, how about I teach people how to do it?

499
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:02,800
So then the second tier of work where, you know, people start to come to me of different sorts,

500
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:04,560
background, all walks of life.

501
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,280
I say, hey, like, how do I speak?

502
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:08,320
How do I find my voice?

503
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:09,440
So that was the second tier.

504
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,560
So when you attended this Toastmasting and all that, you found your voice.

505
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,880
At which stage of your life was that?

506
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:16,080
19, 20 years old.

507
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:16,320
Okay.

508
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,800
Then before you started work, right?

509
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,200
So when you started, now I'm going to move you forward.

510
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:21,600
Yeah.

511
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,280
From where we left off earlier on.

512
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,040
When you, investment banking, right?

513
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:29,440
And then, honestly-

514
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:30,400
I hope the bankers are not listening.

515
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:37,520
Honestly, if I don't know you, if anyone don't know you, I would actually easily think that

516
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,080
people would actually, you would look like a banker.

517
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:40,560
Really?

518
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:41,840
Like, what aspects of it?

519
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:42,560
Hair?

520
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:42,880
Yeah.

521
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:44,160
Everything about you, man.

522
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:44,560
Really?

523
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:45,200
Yeah.

524
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,280
If I didn't know you and I didn't know what you do, I would have thought this guy's a banker.

525
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:50,560
Probably private banker.

526
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:51,120
How come?

527
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:52,080
I don't know.

528
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:52,800
This is a vibe.

529
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:53,600
The PB vibes.

530
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,760
The PB vibes.

531
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,520
They're too slick, too slippery to be true.

532
00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:58,480
Okay.

533
00:21:58,480 --> 00:21:58,960
I don't know.

534
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,200
PB, I can think of a lot of bad words, but let's not go there.

535
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,760
Let's not add anymore like alphabets between P and B.

536
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:08,320
So, you did go into investment banking.

537
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:08,960
No, I didn't.

538
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:09,280
You didn't.

539
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:09,600
Okay.

540
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:10,480
Then what did you do?

541
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,000
You didn't go into public speaking or became a speaker, shut away.

542
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:14,640
Yeah.

543
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:15,440
So what did you do?

544
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,600
So during my uni years, I had a inkling that, ah, agar agar, what I wanted to do,

545
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:20,400
what I didn't want to do.

546
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:21,600
So it was more like reductionist.

547
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:22,160
Accountancy.

548
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:22,480
Yeah.

549
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:27,440
So I did my first, like, oh, God forbid, three months of internship with a taxation firm.

550
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:27,680
Right.

551
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:32,000
And every single day, I kid you not, was like going to office and seeing this like a

552
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,840
Taiwanese drama unfold.

553
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,360
I could literally just step into office.

554
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:40,320
The auntie in front there, I still could recall she used the new clip, but clip, clip, clip.

555
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:41,680
And every day she would do that thing.

556
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,640
I wonder like how many nails she could cut like every single day.

557
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,000
And then she would start her routine.

558
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,800
And then the left-hand side was the tax manager and then she'll be bitching.

559
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:51,280
I mean, to be fair, it was SME.

560
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,040
So you wouldn't expect anything more.

561
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,800
But even the work that they were doing, like, and the kind of lives that they were living,

562
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:58,960
I mean, with due respect, we all choose different lives, right?

563
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,080
I couldn't imagine myself going through the drudgery of accounting.

564
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,440
So I reduced that.

565
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:04,480
I eliminated that.

566
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,640
So I was that weird kid in uni, like people just usually take one or two internships.

567
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,400
I think I did six internships.

568
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:11,440
I did accounting.

569
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:12,480
I did like PR.

570
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:13,440
I did like marketing.

571
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,240
I joined over 30 competitions.

572
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,520
So I did like, for example, you know, how to design the future police post.

573
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,360
I was like so bored with school.

574
00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:25,120
I went to write an essay on like, what's that meant in the,

575
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:27,360
meant in the middle attacks for cybersecurity.

576
00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:28,560
The reason why was one,

577
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:29,120
I was bored.

578
00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:29,840
I wanted some fun.

579
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,080
And then two, I wanted some funds as well, right?

580
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,720
Because when I won competitions, I earned some pocket money.

581
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:35,120
Right.

582
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:38,800
Yeah. So that four years, because I did so badly in accounting school,

583
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,360
I realized that it was like a, just like at the day end,

584
00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:43,840
nobody told me again, like, nobody told me that if you screw up,

585
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,960
you get one C or one D, one E, your GPA is screwed, right?

586
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,880
Your grade point average.

587
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:49,040
Right.

588
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,840
So when I realized my grades were down, then I said the only way is up and out.

589
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,200
So I did so many things.

590
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,240
So long story short, at the end of four years, I had an offer from Big Four.

591
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,520
I decided not to go into accounting firm and I did sales.

592
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:02,800
I did corporate sales training.

593
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,280
Sorry. I did sales for a corporate sales training company.

594
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:05,760
Okay.

595
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,840
Yeah. So that was like my first and only job.

596
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:10,720
For how long were you?

597
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,640
And that was the time I went for the MC academy.

598
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,080
Oh, that was a time.

599
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:15,360
How long were you there?

600
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:17,680
How long? I was there for about one year, nine months.

601
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:18,320
Not very long.

602
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:19,120
And that was it?

603
00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:19,680
Yeah. And my-

604
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:20,880
Being on the employment, that was it?

605
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,000
I was very, very thankful.

606
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,640
I had two uncle bosses, both of them were from America.

607
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,360
So one was like very, very like chubby, very cringy.

608
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:29,600
Another one was like, no, the opposite is a military man.

609
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:34,240
He's a West Point graduate and no DISC profiling.

610
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,360
Right. You say, man, I have no I, S and C. I only have D.

611
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,280
And what it means in very layman human terms is that it's just like a-

612
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:42,080
Dominant.

613
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:43,840
Dominant, domineering person.

614
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:44,800
He has no relational.

615
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:45,440
There's no steadiness.

616
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:46,160
Oh dear.

617
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,240
And I would always recall, my first task on that job was doing cold calls.

618
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,360
He would tell me like, man, you don't have to like to do cold calls.

619
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:56,480
You just have to do it in a freaking military style.

620
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,000
So you see, there's not much of emotions when it comes to like doing business.

621
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,960
But I was thankful to have them, you see, because they gave me the blessings as well.

622
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,400
They say, you can do whatever you want.

623
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,200
Do your psych hustle, do your speech coaching, your public speaking.

624
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:08,000
You can do, do, do.

625
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,920
So long you hit your numbers on a day job.

626
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:10,240
Right.

627
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,000
Yeah. So I had a lot of freedom.

628
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,200
I know I was in an office that basically only like two others

629
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:16,480
and they were remotely in Hong Kong.

630
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:17,440
Sometimes they flew in.

631
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:18,800
I did that for one year, nine months.

632
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,600
And I think I hit my numbers.

633
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,600
I was like making five figures, not too bad for a fresh graduate.

634
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,000
But then it hit the existential crisis again.

635
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,160
I asked myself like, what's the future?

636
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,400
Like, do I want to continue to sell, sell, sell?

637
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,800
Like, I mean, the money was good, but besides the money and beyond the money,

638
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,240
I didn't see that there was a path.

639
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:43,600
So again, I'm going to be, I'm asking the same question in a different format.

640
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:44,080
Yeah.

641
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:45,600
Because as you tell me your journey, right?

642
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,640
The story of your life as you go get along.

643
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:49,360
The temperature.

644
00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:54,000
Yeah. I will ask the same question in different form.

645
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:56,320
The calling.

646
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,120
There wasn't a calling yet at that time to do what you're doing now.

647
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,040
I think there was, there was always voices.

648
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:05,920
Sounds very creepy.

649
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:06,400
Yeah.

650
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:07,120
No, no, it's fine.

651
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:07,840
Yeah.

652
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,080
There were always things that caught up to me,

653
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,240
but that magnitude of that, the nature of that, the reasons of that,

654
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,080
the strength of that was always varying.

655
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:21,760
So, so I think at the, at that time was like mid to late twenties,

656
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,160
like calling for me was that if you don't take a leap, you'll regret this.

657
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,280
You know, you're making this sound as if you're going to be called to the priesthood.

658
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:30,160
Yeah.

659
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,160
Caught to the pulpit, right?

660
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:33,040
Yeah.

661
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,680
Caught to be a priest, being a clergy.

662
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,200
So this has never been an ambition actually.

663
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:42,160
Never, never, never.

664
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:42,960
Never been.

665
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,040
Not like I, like me again, I like to say in my industry now that I do work with insurance agents,

666
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:47,360
right?

667
00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:49,120
Nobody wakes up to be an insurance agent.

668
00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:51,760
I didn't wake up to be a professional speaker, right?

669
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,840
The only thing was that TV and say, hey, if only I could be as like persuasive,

670
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:56,800
significant as them.

671
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,800
It was just that seed of significance, but I didn't have that totality that wow.

672
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,760
And the consciousness would say, oh, I want to fly, I want to travel, I want to get a boat,

673
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,440
I want to get like five figure suites, blah, blah, blah.

674
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,120
No, no, none of that.

675
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:11,600
But you discovered that you were good at it and you liked it and you enjoy it.

676
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:12,160
Yeah.

677
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:13,760
Am I getting all these pieces right?

678
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:14,000
Yeah.

679
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:14,240
Yeah.

680
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:14,720
Okay.

681
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:15,200
Yeah.

682
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:15,280
Okay.

683
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,800
So I think the simple again, if I can put it into a very, very quick framework and I'm more

684
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:20,000
like a framework structure guy.

685
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:20,560
Sure.

686
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,680
I call this like four P's which I inherited from my mentors.

687
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,200
Spoken like a true trainer.

688
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:25,440
Okay.

689
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:25,680
Yeah.

690
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:26,240
Okay.

691
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:26,800
Four pieces.

692
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:27,040
Yeah.

693
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:27,120
Okay.

694
00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:29,280
The first P is the proficiency.

695
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:29,840
Four P's.

696
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,040
Four P's, four P's, right?

697
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:32,960
Four P-A-S-P's, right?

698
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,640
The first P is the proficiency.

699
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:34,960
Right.

700
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:35,920
I suck at numbers.

701
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:36,960
I suck at academics.

702
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:37,360
Yeah.

703
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:39,520
Or rather in numbers and finance.

704
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,440
But what came natural to me was talking, right?

705
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,920
Like when I talk to people, I could listen when I need to listen.

706
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:44,320
Mm-hmm.

707
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,480
I could talk and be fluid when I need to speak.

708
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:46,800
Mm-hmm.

709
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,560
So they say, hey, maybe there's something down there.

710
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:48,800
Yeah.

711
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:49,120
Mm-hmm.

712
00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:51,360
And then the second part is like profits.

713
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:55,120
So the first part was, you know, I could teach, I could talk, but you know, hey, why don't I

714
00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:57,280
become quote unquote MOE teacher?

715
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,640
But I realized, you know, like being a teacher with all due respect again, I don't think I

716
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,200
would earn enough for what kind of life that I wanted to, right?

717
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,160
So I had to be practical to be paid to speak.

718
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:07,200
Where could I go to?

719
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:07,520
Right.

720
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:08,560
So I need to map that.

721
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,640
And I think the third part is the purpose, the profit, the purpose as well as passion.

722
00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:16,080
Have you ever asked yourself what's the root word of passion?

723
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:16,720
The what?

724
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:17,440
Root word.

725
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:18,000
Root word?

726
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:18,160
Yeah.

727
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,920
Like, you know, if you go back to the history and what's the root word of passion?

728
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:22,160
No.

729
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,480
It comes from this Latin word called PATHI, P-A-T-I.

730
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:26,800
Okay.

731
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,240
Which means to suffer.

732
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:29,040
Mm-hmm.

733
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:29,600
Mm-hmm.

734
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,280
So a lot of us thinks that, you know, like to be a musician, wow, it's my passion, right?

735
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:34,240
Just to share with you.

736
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,960
Not that you've given some light on that word, passion in Latin is PATHI.

737
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:39,460
Yeah.

738
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:40,880
Excuse me.

739
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:49,440
That's why in the Catholic church, you know, when Jesus Christ was on his way suffering

740
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:51,360
to his death, right?

741
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:53,920
They call it the passion of the Christ.

742
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:54,400
Yeah.

743
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:55,440
Exactly, right?

744
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,840
So we, I think like even as a young person, I was sold into this dream like, oh, passion

745
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,080
means you're going to be enjoying each and every freaking day.

746
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:06,160
But it was that inkling and that remembrance of like passion, ego, suffering.

747
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,280
What am I willing to suffer for the long run?

748
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,960
So I tried different things, but you know, like going through being on stage, having

749
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,440
like audiences walk out on me, having like screwed up gigs.

750
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:16,400
Did you have that?

751
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:17,120
Have.

752
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:17,680
Wow.

753
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,960
I can share with you like some gigs where, you know, I was doing for a client.

754
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:21,840
What you call them gigs?

755
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:22,480
Yeah.

756
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,800
Gigs, assignments, pretty really call it gigs, assignments, shows where I had to speak

757
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:27,680
Mandarin, for example.

758
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,800
I had people just literally walk out on me because I was that unprofessional.

759
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,440
And I would just go back being an introvert.

760
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,400
I locked myself in a hotel room for a good eight hours.

761
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,320
Ah, you just said that word for me.

762
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:38,880
Which word?

763
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:39,680
Introvert.

764
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:40,400
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

765
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:41,920
How, how, okay.

766
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:48,720
So, so right now people, we have a guy who says he's an introvert and he actually teaches

767
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,640
people public speaking.

768
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,560
So tell me about that.

769
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,120
How would, how that became possible, man?

770
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:56,160
How did you do that?

771
00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,360
It's hard to actually narrow down.

772
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:00,960
Let's just talk it through.

773
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,160
Let's just talk it through, man.

774
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:02,960
How do I do that?

775
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,280
I think, you know, it's what is called uncanny.

776
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,440
I just wrote a bit more like a disgruntled LinkedIn post today.

777
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,800
And this was really like, you know, a message, an insurance student yesterday wrote to me.

778
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,880
He was writing to say, hey, I'm introvert coming into the sales and insurance line.

779
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:19,840
It's not easy.

780
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:20,960
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

781
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,240
It's not easy to put me out or put himself out there.

782
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,520
And then at the back of my mind is like a, who says it's not easy?

783
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,080
Who says it's not easy?

784
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,440
Why can't it be easy?

785
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:32,080
Right?

786
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:37,680
So where I'm driving at was that disgruntledness was that I think we need to really like examine

787
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:42,640
like does introversion really is a handicap or is introversion, can it be a strength?

788
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:43,600
Yeah.

789
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,760
In my opinion, like what totally clicked from within me was that I could be really,

790
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,840
really honest on the CCB show.

791
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:50,400
Sure, please.

792
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:51,520
CCB TV show.

793
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:52,080
Yeah.

794
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:53,200
CCB TV show.

795
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,320
With Chris Hansen conversation more exactly, more precisely.

796
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,120
Yeah, with Mr. Chris Hansen, the affable Mr. Chris Hansen.

797
00:30:59,120 --> 00:30:59,680
Oh, thank you.

798
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:00,400
Very affable.

799
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:03,280
In more ways than one.

800
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,560
I mean, we can take that word out of context.

801
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:07,600
Oh, that's fine.

802
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:07,920
Yeah.

803
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,440
Let's not go between the lines.

804
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:09,760
Okay.

805
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,880
Let's talk about, let's stop talking about the affable Chris.

806
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,000
I think it's very palpable.

807
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:16,320
Yeah.

808
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:17,440
It's very felt.

809
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,040
But you see in the speaking world, yeah, I can tell you another back of stories, right?

810
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:21,280
Okay.

811
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,840
So my journey was I coach people how to speak.

812
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:28,640
I was a trainer, but my journey to be a professional speaker was yet another trajectory.

813
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:28,960
Sure.

814
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,360
Let's not forget what we were talking about.

815
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:37,520
We're saying disgruntledness about what makes you think an introvert cannot make it in what

816
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:38,080
you're doing.

817
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:44,000
Specifically because today's topic is about you and what you do, not just selling.

818
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:44,640
Yeah, sure.

819
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,720
But of course, being an extrovert doesn't necessarily agree or disagree.

820
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,480
Doesn't necessarily mean that you do well in both disciplines as well,

821
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,400
but it's selling or whether or not speaking.

822
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:54,640
Yeah.

823
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:56,640
So what is it then?

824
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,680
I think whether for speaking, selling, building a brand, building a business.

825
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:01,760
Sure, sure.

826
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:02,720
Just a set of fundamental.

827
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:03,280
So what is it?

828
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:09,120
What is it about an introvert, a person who is introvert, with his introvertedness.

829
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:09,440
Yeah.

830
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:17,120
Being able to successfully do something of his chosen path or career that people would say

831
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,200
belongs solely, well, the small minded, narrow minded ones will think that way,

832
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,080
belongs solely to the extrovert.

833
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:25,920
So what is it about the introvert then?

834
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:26,800
Let's talk about that.

835
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,200
I think the easiest way would be to tell you the story of one gig.

836
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:29,680
All right.

837
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:35,840
So I was speaking in Phuket by a live insurance client and there were three other speakers.

838
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:41,200
So one was the former CEO of AirAsiaX, he's a very suave, very eloquent gentleman.

839
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:41,440
Right.

840
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,320
Second was the Google APEC HR director.

841
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:44,640
Right.

842
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,680
The third was a mentor of mine who was also in the speaking industry.

843
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:48,880
And then there was me.

844
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,720
So back then, you know, it was a hard journey to become a professional speaker.

845
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:53,920
What is a professional speaker?

846
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,440
A speaker who gets paid to speak.

847
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:55,760
Sure.

848
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:59,360
So I was like, you know, doing full day training is more like a training persona.

849
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,080
Training means you're going to download and share and use a lot of slides.

850
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:02,400
Yeah.

851
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,200
But as a professional speaker, your time is compressed to one, two hours.

852
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,760
You need to, bam, you need to be a storyteller.

853
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:08,080
Yeah.

854
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,200
You need to be energetic.

855
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:10,000
You need to be dynamic.

856
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,760
Or at least that was what I thought.

857
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,600
So we ended the entire event.

858
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,920
The client came to me and said, Ben, I think you need to be a bit more peacock.

859
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,520
Then I scratched my head and said, what do you mean?

860
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:21,840
Right.

861
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,520
So I later realized, you know, the effectiveness of a speaker usually can be measured,

862
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:29,120
not just in amount of claps, standing ovations, but in a commercial sense.

863
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,560
As a result of one speech, how many more bookings you get.

864
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:32,880
Yeah.

865
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:33,120
Sure.

866
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:33,360
Yeah.

867
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,720
So my mentor, he got a total of 18 bookings.

868
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:38,720
So you can imagine it was a big event.

869
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,400
We had leaders from 10 different countries.

870
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:42,480
Guess how many bookings I got?

871
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:43,200
How many?

872
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:43,680
Zero.

873
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:44,160
Okay.

874
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:44,560
Yeah.

875
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:50,000
And that was the first identity crisis to say, am I fit to do this speak and entertain job?

876
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,000
Because fundamentally, you know, I don't think I'm an entertainer.

877
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:54,240
Yeah.

878
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:59,200
So tying back to, you know, like how does introversion or the lack of, or introversion,

879
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:00,480
is it a strength handicap?

880
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,560
You know, I had this like tenuous relationship.

881
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,880
I almost like say, you know, like screw this.

882
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:05,600
I'm not going to do this.

883
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,360
You know, I'm just going to do like maybe just coaching and workshop training.

884
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,720
But just one part of me say that, hey, there must be something me.

885
00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:13,200
Sure.

886
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:14,640
Yeah, and I sort of pursued that.

887
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,680
I sort of found again, quote unquote, again, my voice.

888
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,680
I realized that people don't need me to be Rara.

889
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,240
People don't like me to be someone that's from Boyan.

890
00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:26,160
I decided to drop in all those colorful suits and just like wear plain blue, white.

891
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:26,400
Right.

892
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,160
And then when I spoke, I spoke from the depth of my knowledge of the industry,

893
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:31,280
of whatever I was teaching.

894
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:37,200
So a bit of context again, as a speaker, I teach people that, you know, they have an identity,

895
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:37,440
right?

896
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,560
They can brand themselves, they should put themselves on social media because that's

897
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:41,760
how people discover that.

898
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:42,000
Yeah.

899
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,040
So that's the final endpoint or rather today this endpoint.

900
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,920
I'm not too sure where I lost you, but that's the entire kind of journey.

901
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:48,320
I see.

902
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:53,040
So basically what you're saying is that if you're an introvert and you can't be that

903
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,040
flamboyant persona, don't force yourself to be one.

904
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:03,040
But instead, lean your strengths on the things that would really, you know, shout it out more.

905
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,200
Shout your strengths out more.

906
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:05,520
Yeah.

907
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:06,240
Is that what you're saying?

908
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,960
But first of all, you have to be aware and recognize what those strengths are.

909
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,720
And on the flip side, that's where I think, you know, like we've sort of wrong introverted

910
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:15,920
people for so long.

911
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,640
You see, like when I was growing up introversion was never a word.

912
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,880
People were saying like, Ben, you're very quiet.

913
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:21,520
You're very awkward.

914
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,360
I still remember my report card as like Ben does well in school, he's great at academics,

915
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,120
but maybe he should speak up more.

916
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:27,360
Yeah.

917
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:27,600
Right.

918
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,120
So it was like shy, awkward and sheers, blah, blah, blah.

919
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,680
It's only in this era that introversion is accepted.

920
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,160
But if we look at introversion as a construct, like realize that if you're an introvert

921
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,360
listening, you know, you have so many great talents that you're having.

922
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,000
Like you have the benefit and gift of intuition.

923
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,480
You'll tend to be more observant.

924
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,280
You don't need to speak up when you don't feel like speaking up.

925
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:50,160
You're more observant.

926
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:51,040
You're more empathetic.

927
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:51,920
All of that, right?

928
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,080
It's all harnessing all this good stuff to put it into a business context.

929
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,960
And then of course, basically let it really fly.

930
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,640
Bring it out into the open and shout all these out.

931
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:03,840
Make sure people know that.

932
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,720
To be a bit more peacock in a dove way.

933
00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:07,200
Yeah.

934
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,120
Wow. My goodness. We're going into transactional analysis.

935
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:12,640
Bird's theory, man.

936
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:13,440
Bird's theory.

937
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,080
Okay. You can tell I'm a peacock too.

938
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,080
I've got some eagle as well.

939
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:18,580
Yeah.

940
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:20,960
Don't we all.

941
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,600
I think having ego is a healthy state of like being us all.

942
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,000
Sure. But if we go on too much and there's a lot of people out there

943
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,200
who have never gone through this.

944
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,480
The bird's theory, they're going to be kind of lost.

945
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,640
I asked about introvertedness because I also feel that it's

946
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:42,160
unfair for introverts to be stereotyped into certain moles.

947
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,920
For example, you know, I work with a lot of people from all walks of life

948
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,560
and comedians, great ones even.

949
00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:54,720
Even our own local comedians.

950
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,040
Do you know most of them are introverts, man?

951
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,920
These guys that go on stage.

952
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:01,040
Is it a different persona?

953
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:01,760
Is it like a.

954
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,000
Yeah. When they go on stage, man,

955
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,720
you recognize them for who they are on stage.

956
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:07,680
You go stand up.

957
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,240
And stand up is the hardest thing, in my opinion.

958
00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:10,720
It's freaking difficult.

959
00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:12,240
The hardest thing to do, man.

960
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,720
I'm sorry, but even if you do public speaking courses for that,

961
00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:17,680
not going to work.

962
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:18,160
It's different.

963
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,400
I've always admitted to the fact that it's hard to teach stand up.

964
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,080
It's more a fact it's near impossible.

965
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,640
You've got to find it within you to do it.

966
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,360
You know, not just your content, but how you deliver it

967
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,080
and how you deal with hackers and blah, blah, blah.

968
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:35,680
I mean, I had Rishi here as well.

969
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:37,600
But they're great guys.

970
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:38,320
They're nice people.

971
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:40,400
But most of them are introverts.

972
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:42,320
The moment they're off stage.

973
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:44,800
That's it?

974
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:45,200
Different.

975
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:46,240
I'm going to find my space.

976
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:47,120
Yeah, different, man.

977
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:48,000
Different, you know.

978
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:53,120
So I think being an introvert is a strength.

979
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,440
And I'm an extrovert, yeah.

980
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:56,320
But I am.

981
00:37:58,400 --> 00:37:59,360
Aware extrovert.

982
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,560
I'm also aware of my introverted side.

983
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:02,960
Yeah.

984
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:04,080
Every one of us has it.

985
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:04,960
Correct.

986
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:06,880
It's not as if we're all devoid of that.

987
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:07,520
We have it.

988
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,120
We are more like ambiverts as well.

989
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,920
It's depending on the context as well as what's our leanings.

990
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,840
So you could be an introvert, but you have a bit of extrovertedness in you as well.

991
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:17,200
You know, there's no way it's absent.

992
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:18,160
There's no way.

993
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,440
It's just about finding it and digging that out.

994
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,800
As you said very, you know, quite coincidentally,

995
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,040
it is finding your voice.

996
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:28,960
And I think that's what happened.

997
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:34,400
With hearing and listening to your journey, how I see it, I might be wrong.

998
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:40,960
But how I see it is that when you found your voice, you found that little piece of you

999
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:46,240
in part of that jigsaw puzzle that, you know, this is my introvertedness that's there.

1000
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:49,600
Maybe you didn't see it as that, but I think you found that.

1001
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,280
I think you found that bit of you.

1002
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:52,480
It all clicked, you see.

1003
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,760
Like for example, like the Poolee story, it became a narrative.

1004
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,560
Like, you know, the awkwardness became a narrative.

1005
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,000
They're getting rejected by girls.

1006
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,920
You know, I even had this nickname called 321.

1007
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,720
Three girls that I profess my love to, two swollen teary eyes and one broken heart.

1008
00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:07,220
321.

1009
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,440
Everything just came together.

1010
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:10,640
Accounting thing.

1011
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,640
You see, I think life again is like what Steve Jobs mentioned or said, right?

1012
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,920
Like you cannot look, you know, cannot plan your life looking backwards all the time.

1013
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,480
You just have to lean forward and trust that dots will all connect.

1014
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,280
So that was really, I think, I like to think, you know, the story of my life.

1015
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,280
A lot of people say, hey, like how do you become a coach?

1016
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:26,160
How do you, blah, blah, blah.

1017
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:27,600
I didn't know.

1018
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,160
I just knew what the next step was.

1019
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:30,400
Right.

1020
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:34,320
And then I had enough courage and ounce of courage to just take one step, one step, one step.

1021
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,160
And it just made a bit more sense over time.

1022
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:40,640
But you strike me to be a chap also that sits back and reflect a lot.

1023
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:40,960
I do.

1024
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:46,160
And there are people out there, I think, that don't do that.

1025
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:50,320
They don't sit back and reflect and try to work out what's happening in my life today

1026
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,760
in a lot of ways, you know, not just in my social life, but in my professional life.

1027
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,960
And people don't sit back to think they just want to get that job.

1028
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:02,320
And then they don't, I'm sorry, Adrian Chu, but I'm going to use what you said.

1029
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,800
They don't strategize their way.

1030
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,360
Geez, I don't believe I just said that.

1031
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:08,320
It sounds so cheesy.

1032
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,800
It sounds so on you, by the way.

1033
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:11,520
Yes, it is.

1034
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:16,720
You know, but you're one of those guys that would do that.

1035
00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:19,360
And I think that's important for people to also note.

1036
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:27,600
In your opinion, man, professional opinion, what's important in public speaking?

1037
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,520
Wow, that's a huge and loaded question.

1038
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:32,000
I'm sorry.

1039
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:33,440
I always load my questions.

1040
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,360
What's important in public speaking?

1041
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,600
I mean, I could run a whole day class on that.

1042
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:40,720
No, no, just pick one.

1043
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:41,280
Pick one.

1044
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,840
Just if one thing that really clicks with me, I think you need to be useful on stage.

1045
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:46,480
Useful?

1046
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:46,800
Yeah.

1047
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:47,040
Wow.

1048
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:48,640
What does that mean?

1049
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:54,800
Yeah, what it means is for the time that you're on stage, that brings me back to another India,

1050
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:55,680
a conference in India.

1051
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:57,840
I was back then very, very young and formative.

1052
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,160
And I was in public speaker.

1053
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,440
Everyone was looking at me and then we're all youth from different countries.

1054
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,680
And then I had a more like a senior youth who came to me and he was also in public speaking.

1055
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,160
And then he said, hey, Ben, great to know you.

1056
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:11,760
And I said, hey, you're in speaking as well.

1057
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:12,400
Why?

1058
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,120
He said, well, Ben, for me, speaking is a duty.

1059
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:16,640
I said, sounds like what?

1060
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:18,560
Duty and that's our national service.

1061
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:18,960
No, no, no.

1062
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,560
He said, like, you know, if I'm speaking for 10 minutes to 50 people,

1063
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,840
I'm taking up 500 minutes of the world's time.

1064
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,040
And that always left me, right?

1065
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,040
10 minutes, 50 people.

1066
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:30,240
They could be there everywhere.

1067
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:31,920
I mean, granted, their minds could be elsewhere.

1068
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,280
Physically, they are there, invested 500 minutes of the world's time with you.

1069
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:40,720
So you could literally be, you know, you're taking up 500 minutes of the entire world's time.

1070
00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:44,080
You'd bloody be useful in that capacity, you see.

1071
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,800
So that really left, I think, one of the deepest impressions in me

1072
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,920
in that, you know, the job of a speaker is not just to fill up air.

1073
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:50,720
Takeaways, you mean?

1074
00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:50,960
Yeah.

1075
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,280
Making sure that there's at least one good takeaway?

1076
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:57,040
Takeaway in a functional term, you just need to be useful in the time.

1077
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,040
And what useful is, is very subjective.

1078
00:41:59,040 --> 00:41:59,520
Yeah.

1079
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,120
You leave a mark is useful.

1080
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:01,520
Okay.

1081
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,120
You get them thinking is useful.

1082
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:03,360
Okay.

1083
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,280
You make them feel angry is useful.

1084
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:05,440
Right.

1085
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:06,960
You make them feel silly is useful.

1086
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,360
You make them feel hurt is useful.

1087
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,680
You make them feel more than how they came in is useful.

1088
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,320
So I think it's very dynamic and it really depends who the audience are, who you are.

1089
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,560
What do you think is the bridge between you and your audience?

1090
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:25,120
You said earlier that you conduct, of course, training for public speaking, right?

1091
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:25,680
Okay.

1092
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:27,760
I'm not going to ask you to give it a whole gamut of it.

1093
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:28,560
Of course not.

1094
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:28,800
Yeah.

1095
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:29,440
Yeah.

1096
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:36,560
But if I want to ask you top of head, one of the more important tools or technique

1097
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:42,800
that you've used to help executives develop a compelling presentation narrative,

1098
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,160
how, what do you do?

1099
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:51,040
How do you get someone going from someone who says, I've, I want to be a better public

1100
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:57,200
speaker or I've never spoken about before because I have a phobia about it.

1101
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:02,480
Is there anything you think you have in your arsenal of techniques or tools

1102
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,360
that have brought people to another level?

1103
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:10,640
Wow. Okay. So, so if I go to the tools and techniques again, definitely a lot of things.

1104
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:11,120
Just pick one.

1105
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:11,920
Yeah. Just the biggest one.

1106
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:12,080
Yeah.

1107
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:17,200
Just happened yesterday. So I was coaching a MD of a global American MNC.

1108
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:21,360
So when you look at this chap, you know, he's late forties, he's like achieving,

1109
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:26,400
he's been promoted seven times in the same bank continually, obviously, right?

1110
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,800
So, and it's being head hunted to yet another global bank.

1111
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,320
So when the first thing I met him is like, are you sure you need like presentation,

1112
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:33,440
communications coaching?

1113
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:34,400
And he said, yes.

1114
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,040
Vehemently he said, yes, you know, and that's why he wanted to get started.

1115
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,160
And he was serving his gardening leave prior to joining another bank.

1116
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:41,600
So he wanted everything to be cash.

1117
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,960
Cause I said, bro, that's not high a role, but you know, since you want it so urgently

1118
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,520
and I'm based in Singapore for this month, let's do.

1119
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,920
So when I worked with him, I realized that, you know, in spite of his achievements,

1120
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,840
he was like, you know, being a top salesperson, he was driven and moved to a role whereby

1121
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,520
he needed to be more visible instead of like a small team kind of like, Hey,

1122
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,440
sharing of practice results, blah, blah, blah, is going to be more visible globally.

1123
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,520
So that was his premise for speaking.

1124
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:06,800
So I'm going to arrive at a tip here.

1125
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:11,040
So when I started working with him yesterday, I realized that, you know, like sometimes

1126
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:16,560
we don't present or we don't speak up for how we are worth and what we are worth.

1127
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:21,600
And what I mean by that is if you imagine his stature, he should be, wow, that kind

1128
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,760
of like energy, that kind of presence here.

1129
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,400
And when he started to present, I felt it was so safe.

1130
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,760
He was like not making his voice heard in all sense of it.

1131
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,600
He was not like, you know, like when his department did this, he didn't have a sense

1132
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:34,960
of like ownership or pride.

1133
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,480
So these things give away in people when how they present.

1134
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,680
So the first reaction is like, Ben, I've been speaking like this all this while.

1135
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:42,640
I say, yup.

1136
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:48,080
I get that is your habitualization, your sort of your habit, but why are you playing it

1137
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:48,880
so safe?

1138
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:50,240
Safe in terms of what?

1139
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:51,040
Content?

1140
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:55,520
Safe in terms of content, safe in terms of delivery, same with us of the sort of like

1141
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:57,440
his stature, his presence.

1142
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,800
His stature, his presence, body language.

1143
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:01,040
Yeah.

1144
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:01,200
Yeah.

1145
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:02,880
So he's very clamped up.

1146
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:03,200
Right.

1147
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:04,960
And I basically had to mirror him.

1148
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,360
I video recorded and I said like, how would you describe him?

1149
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:07,680
Yeah.

1150
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:12,960
Like if I'm listening to him, I don't even feel that he is speaking like from MD, he's

1151
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,320
a managing director, right?

1152
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,760
It's more speaking like the stature of like maybe a junior to senior manager.

1153
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:18,720
Yeah.

1154
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:23,040
So what I did was that, you know, I had to get him to be clear of the narratives and

1155
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:23,760
the voices.

1156
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,200
So I do this little exercise called like black dogs, white dogs, right?

1157
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,280
We have a dog at home in your place, right?

1158
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:33,920
So black dogs are the voices that are disempowering, white dogs are the voices that are empowering.

1159
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,360
So I got him to be very clear.

1160
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:36,320
What was his inner game?

1161
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:37,520
What's his inner narrative like?

1162
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,880
Because up there, it's really freaking noisy place.

1163
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:41,120
Yeah.

1164
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:41,440
Yeah.

1165
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:45,360
Of all times, especially when you go into nervous, high anxiety situations, speaking,

1166
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,360
for example, and then he lists down, okay, my voice dogs are, I'm a subject matter expert.

1167
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:49,920
I led my team.

1168
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:50,800
I'm very proud.

1169
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,880
But more important is black dogs that I'm not a good speaker.

1170
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:56,960
And I say, Hey, how does that come about?

1171
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,160
So that's where coaching for me is really getting to the story behind the story.

1172
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:00,560
Right.

1173
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:05,680
So what realized for him was that in his early twenties, when he graduated from his country

1174
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:10,320
in India, you know, he was promoted to do some like speaking and all like, like presenting.

1175
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:11,200
He didn't do well.

1176
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:12,800
It's a bit like your mentee, right?

1177
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:14,240
Like a Ile, right?

1178
00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:16,640
And he didn't have a good person like guiding him.

1179
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,720
So as a result of that, something that happened in the early twenties, he had the conclusion

1180
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:21,280
caught.

1181
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:22,800
I don't think I'm good at speaking.

1182
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,800
I don't think that when people are looking at me, I'm presenting a content I can do well.

1183
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:27,360
It's that.

1184
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:31,040
So can you imagine, yeah, functionally as a salesperson, he grew up and grew up the rank

1185
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:35,680
seven promotions, one bank all the way, but that speaking thing, that story, he carried

1186
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,400
the baggage for 20 over years.

1187
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:42,640
So I just asked him in, in no uncertain terms, like, why are you allowing that, that, that

1188
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,960
baggage of 20 plus years to carry still weighing you down until all the way until today.

1189
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:48,240
Yeah.

1190
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:51,600
So that's, I believe speaking is always an inside out maneuver.

1191
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:51,920
Yeah.

1192
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,120
So there's obviously the tactical, the strategic parts, like for example, how to use your voice,

1193
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,320
your hands, your eye contact, you know, it's even like the power post theory.

1194
00:46:58,320 --> 00:46:58,560
Yeah.

1195
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,440
Where you do your, your power post and then you feel like pumped up.

1196
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,360
But for me, I feel is what's the narrative.

1197
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,960
So for me, the narrative they were speaking was the black dog, which is I don't think

1198
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:08,160
I'm great at speaking.

1199
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:09,840
In fact, I think I'm terrible at speaking.

1200
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:16,320
So until I work on that level, no amount of strategies would sort of shift that identity.

1201
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,640
So for me, if you ask, ask me what's about speaking is really finding out who do you

1202
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,360
have, who the hell do you think you are when you're speaking?

1203
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:25,200
It sounds very like.

1204
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:26,000
No, I understand.

1205
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,560
I know where you're coming from this, but thanks for sharing that.

1206
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:35,280
Basically what you're saying is, is that drop your baggage outside and then see a different

1207
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:36,560
perspective of yourself.

1208
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:37,760
Right.

1209
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:42,560
And then also not to be afraid to deliver the things that you don't, don't just play it safe.

1210
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:43,760
Yeah.

1211
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:47,760
The playing it safe is an outcome and impact of what's happening inside.

1212
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:48,000
Right.

1213
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,640
So I have a white dog, like for example, there were times I have tons of imposter syndrome,

1214
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,480
like bloody hell, I don't even have a day of corporate working experience, but I have

1215
00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:02,720
to speak to people who are Harvard, like this, that, this Ivy League and all the C level.

1216
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:05,520
I would ask myself, you know, like who the hell am I?

1217
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:05,760
Right.

1218
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:10,160
So I had to have a white dog, which is I'm here to express, not to impress.

1219
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:11,120
Yeah.

1220
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,240
So when I have that as a white dog, I'm feeding that voice.

1221
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:17,920
I tell myself, my job here is not to impress, but to deliver the things that I'm

1222
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:18,960
going to do to impress anyone.

1223
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,040
Even if I try, they wouldn't be.

1224
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,840
And even if I don't try, you know, I kind of control that.

1225
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,840
So instead of looking down the expression route, sorry, impression route, I'm here to

1226
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,360
express, share my journey.

1227
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:34,080
And if it impacts you and then also that story about, you know, being a person of impact

1228
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,320
of usefulness, you're taking up the world's time.

1229
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:37,760
Those are the things I put in my head.

1230
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:38,240
Right.

1231
00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:42,480
So when you put more good things in your head, then you, you remove the things for the baggage,

1232
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,480
you remove the baggage unconsciously.

1233
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:45,440
If I'm making sense.

1234
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,200
You know, you do, you make sense.

1235
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,800
Hope that the people watching this can actually sit back and rewind it and just listen to

1236
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:51,200
it again.

1237
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:51,520
Okay.

1238
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,760
You also describe yourself as a professional millennials speaker.

1239
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:57,120
What's that?

1240
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:58,640
That was actually a formal label.

1241
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:04,240
So just to give a bit of context, I used to talk about like how organizations could

1242
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:08,480
attract the younger people, but I think, you know, that gave way to, and that was a very

1243
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:13,680
comfortable narrative because I was engaged by a global insurance company for a millennials

1244
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:13,920
gig.

1245
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:15,920
And they say, Hey, like, what can you teach about millennials?

1246
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:16,080
Yeah.

1247
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:18,720
Then I say, Hey, no millennials, what's hot social media.

1248
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:21,680
And then that really gave birth to my current birth of work.

1249
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:22,720
So that was an old bio.

1250
00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:25,120
I take responsibility for not updating.

1251
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:25,680
No, I'm sorry.

1252
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:26,080
I'm sorry.

1253
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:26,240
No, no, no.

1254
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,080
Maybe I should have asked the question, but anyway, I've asked it.

1255
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:30,560
Yeah.

1256
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,120
So now what's happening with this now?

1257
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:33,440
Yeah.

1258
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:34,320
It gave way.

1259
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,240
It sort of gave birth to what I do.

1260
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:36,480
Yeah.

1261
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:37,360
What is?

1262
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:41,520
Which is like, I train financial advisors on how to build their brands online, how to

1263
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,440
use the power of your narrative, your story.

1264
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:44,160
Ah.

1265
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,960
So that's what I speak, teach, coach and train.

1266
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:47,280
Okay.

1267
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:48,800
That's clearer to me.

1268
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,520
We've been talking about your journey as a speaker and a coach.

1269
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:55,440
Now let's talk about you as an entrepreneur.

1270
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:58,480
So what challenges have you encountered?

1271
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:05,600
I think my season right now, it's to put my ego at home and to know that as a boss,

1272
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,200
you're not supposed to be bossy.

1273
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:11,840
Although I'm not bossy, but as a boss, your job is really to be really useful and to serve

1274
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,960
people at where they are at, at the level where they need you to be at.

1275
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:15,280
Okay.

1276
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:20,080
So other than that, commercially, man, when you started the business,

1277
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,040
what were the challenges you faced?

1278
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,760
I started out as a one-man operator.

1279
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:27,680
We call this OMO, like a self-employed.

1280
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:29,120
It was okay.

1281
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:30,800
It was like finding the validation.

1282
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,000
So I think for me as a young guy, when I started to realize that, hey, I was making

1283
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:38,080
a multiple of what my folks in the banks, even the big four was earning, it was okay.

1284
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:39,360
I feel I'm somewhere.

1285
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:44,800
But in my late, sorry, my early 30s to my mid 30s, doing all of that, then I realized

1286
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,400
that if I continue running like that, I could actually still do what I was doing all the way

1287
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:49,360
until 50s and 60s.

1288
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:54,960
I think I could say I was one of the few people who's lucky enough to find a piece of work

1289
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,520
that I love and yet get paid by that.

1290
00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:01,360
But then I asked myself, no, if I don't do anything else or more in different shapes,

1291
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:02,800
sizes or form, would I regret that?

1292
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:06,720
Let's talk about the tangibles, shall we?

1293
00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:11,600
When we talk about on the entrepreneurial journey, you incorporated the business eventually.

1294
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:15,120
And then you were still a one-man operation.

1295
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:16,160
What is it like now?

1296
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:20,720
So the first one-man operation, then I hired a support team.

1297
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:22,880
So I have two to three people supporting me.

1298
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:27,520
Then because now I train people in terms of social media and branding, I realized there

1299
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:31,680
was one big need, which is, you know, I could work with a director in the insurance business.

1300
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:35,040
I could ask this bugger to do like a cap cut to edit on Canva.

1301
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:36,000
Can he learn it?

1302
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:41,040
Yes, he can learn, but it's every post, every caption, everything takes up way too much time.

1303
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,440
So I built a media production company out of the Philippines.

1304
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:50,640
I have six close to seven person there, a copywriter, video editor, social media manager,

1305
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:52,320
project manager that wraps everything.

1306
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,080
So think of me like, you know, like social media is exhausting business, especially for entrepreneurs.

1307
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:57,120
It is, yes.

1308
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:04,000
So I basically strip up everything that can be stripped away, but you know, retain what

1309
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,520
cannot be stripped, which is video, because video is something, I mean, there's obviously

1310
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:11,120
now AI and video and stuff like that, but the video in the purest form is you being you,

1311
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,520
your unadulterated, your energy, right?

1312
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,560
And then with all this video, we send it to cloud, the technology, and then my team in

1313
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,320
the Philippines hand out everything of that.

1314
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:18,640
Right.

1315
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:18,880
Yeah.

1316
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:23,600
It's my value add, you see, that's my next stage of beyond and above an OMO, a speaker

1317
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:27,440
and coach, how much more use, how can I be more useful to my clients?

1318
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,680
It's always my narrative has always been guided by that.

1319
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:30,960
How can I deliver more impact?

1320
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:32,480
How can I be more useful?

1321
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:32,800
Okay.

1322
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:33,680
Okay.

1323
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:35,120
Yeah.

1324
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:37,520
It's kind of not on the socials or the website.

1325
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:38,720
So maybe it's like a...

1326
00:52:38,720 --> 00:52:39,280
No, no, no.

1327
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:40,400
I just wanted to understand.

1328
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:40,880
Yeah.

1329
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:45,120
I think people ought to know as well, because from doing what you're doing as a professional

1330
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,160
in this field, you can, you build a business out of it.

1331
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:48,640
Yeah.

1332
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:48,960
Right.

1333
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,280
And then you added more value to that business.

1334
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:52,240
Okay.

1335
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:56,720
And I also wanted to just find out from you, what were the challenges you encountered as

1336
00:52:56,720 --> 00:52:58,720
you went along in your entrepreneurial journey?

1337
00:52:58,720 --> 00:53:03,040
You know, I mean, let's get down to the, you know, down and dirty to this business.

1338
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:03,600
Happy to.

1339
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:04,080
Happy to.

1340
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:08,640
Let's, at the end of it all, right, being an entrepreneur, you need to be able to get

1341
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:10,960
engagements, you need to be able to get jobs.

1342
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:14,080
So did you bounce into any blank walls?

1343
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:19,680
Let's say, for example, 2020, 2021 during COVID, were you impacted?

1344
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:27,040
You know, and how did you also overcome challenges as you come, as you were growing

1345
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,080
that business for me as a young man, right?

1346
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:35,680
And you, like you said, you gave a, you gave a, you gave an, you spoke at an engagement

1347
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,160
before and you had zero.

1348
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:38,640
Yep.

1349
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:39,120
Yep.

1350
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:40,800
You know, zero coming out from that.

1351
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:42,560
What do you do?

1352
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:48,000
I mean, how, how was it like, you know, that, that, that, that the feeling that you, you

1353
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,760
know, the pain that you had to go through and what did you do to overcome that?

1354
00:53:52,240 --> 00:53:54,240
You know, like I, what advice would you give basically?

1355
00:53:54,240 --> 00:53:57,280
I sometimes tell my wife that, you know, with all this pain, it feels like I've, I've died

1356
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:58,880
many times in one, one lifetime.

1357
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,880
Like a part of me just died and then yet it gave birth and rebirth.

1358
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,600
But if you ask me, like, sorry, your guiding question was?

1359
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,800
What were, what were the challenges you went through?

1360
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:09,040
Yeah.

1361
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:09,920
Yeah.

1362
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:15,920
I think the challenges at all stages, really making sure that there was, there was demand

1363
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:16,480
for you, right?

1364
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:17,920
Or you had to create a kind of demand.

1365
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:18,400
Okay.

1366
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:22,240
So whether you're a service-based or product-based entrepreneur, if you don't, if you're not

1367
00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:25,440
selling, you're not making money, then you got to close shop.

1368
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,960
So I always believe that, you know, sometimes as entrepreneurs, if you're thinking like,

1369
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:30,640
oh, I shall be just building up my craft.

1370
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:32,560
I know I'm going to like do more creative work.

1371
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:36,720
I think it's important, but the moment where your business gets really business is when

1372
00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:37,920
people start to pay.

1373
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,480
When there's money in the bank, cash in the bank, there's validation.

1374
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:45,120
So the biggest challenge for me at the earlier stages was making sure that people want to

1375
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:45,840
pay for me.

1376
00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:46,080
Right.

1377
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,520
Then at the next stage is making sure that people want to pay for me continually.

1378
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:53,520
Then at this current season is continually and up-sized, bigger ticket, bigger problems.

1379
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:55,200
What advice would you give a young Ben?

1380
00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:01,520
Right now, for example, you meet, you meet Ben who is current, who is in the university,

1381
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:02,880
right?

1382
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:09,840
And on the assumption that Ben at that time has already decided I am going to be a speaker

1383
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:11,200
and trainer and coach.

1384
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:13,280
What advice would you give Ben?

1385
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,400
That young person, 20, 19, 20 years old.

1386
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:20,480
I think finally I'll give two advice.

1387
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:24,640
I mean, the first advice would be the functional, which is, you know, just stick to one lane

1388
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,720
because I felt that I was also having, I was a typical millennial, itchy backside syndrome.

1389
00:55:28,720 --> 00:55:32,080
You know, I was like wanting to speak, then I want to do the full day training, coaching,

1390
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:32,800
different niche.

1391
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:36,000
So pick one lane, do it freaking well, right?

1392
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,520
Like what you say, once you become good and then good to great, and that's where you have

1393
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:43,680
that commanding power, the decision-making power that gravitas.

1394
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:47,360
But yet, you know, like maybe in this season of my life, I went through a retreat like

1395
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:52,560
a spiritual retreat, like last weekend, I would tell the young Ben is take time to breathe,

1396
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:53,040
right?

1397
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,000
Take time to pause and take time to separate yourself.

1398
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:59,760
Like, you know, is this the dream that you want or would there be something that's bigger,

1399
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:00,320
bolder?

1400
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:00,880
Okay.

1401
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,400
I know it sounds contradictory, like, you know, it sets me different direction, but

1402
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,000
that's my current space right now.

1403
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:06,560
Sure.

1404
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:06,800
Yeah.

1405
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:14,560
With respect to that, but on the same Ben, 19, 20 year old Ben, and Ben is thinking,

1406
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:16,960
I want to do this.

1407
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:18,160
Where do I go?

1408
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:19,840
How do I get this?

1409
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:21,440
Where can I learn?

1410
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:22,480
What do I need?

1411
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:23,440
What would you tell him?

1412
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:26,480
I think the aspect I did what I could, right?

1413
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:31,040
Like for example, I started to say, Hey, back then I enrolled for the MC Academy.

1414
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:31,840
No, no, no, no.

1415
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:32,640
What's available.

1416
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:33,120
Yeah.

1417
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:33,840
At this time.

1418
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:34,240
Yeah.

1419
00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:35,280
Right now it's today.

1420
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:36,320
You met Ben.

1421
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:36,880
Yeah.

1422
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:40,800
It's somehow or other the parallel universes just, you know, crossed over each other.

1423
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:41,280
Yeah.

1424
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:42,480
And you met yourself.

1425
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:42,880
Yeah.

1426
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:48,880
The 19, 20 year old you, but that, that guy, Ben from the parallel universe has decided

1427
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:50,240
that I'm going to do this.

1428
00:56:50,240 --> 00:56:51,760
What's available.

1429
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:52,960
What do I need to do?

1430
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:54,160
Where do I go?

1431
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:54,800
Yeah.

1432
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:57,840
So if you're going down the route of like strategy tactics.

1433
00:56:57,840 --> 00:56:59,600
Root, my friend, root is not route.

1434
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:00,160
I'm sorry.

1435
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:01,360
I'm being such a grammar Nazi.

1436
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:02,400
It's route, man.

1437
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:03,200
Root, route.

1438
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:05,680
Going down the route of like a strategy.

1439
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:07,040
I knew you would catch that.

1440
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:08,000
I'm sorry, man.

1441
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:08,640
Shit.

1442
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:09,840
Route is a Singaporean thing.

1443
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:10,240
Is it?

1444
00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:11,200
No, route is a...

1445
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:13,200
Okay.

1446
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,960
Every fucking season I'm going to talk about this stupid word.

1447
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,760
R-O-U-T-E in America.

1448
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:20,960
They say it's Americanized.

1449
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:21,520
Isn't it?

1450
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:28,720
It's not Americanized because American English even says root in recent times for I don't

1451
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:35,360
know what fucking reason the people on film in Hollywood and then of course the whole

1452
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,320
damn country has started to pronounce it as route.

1453
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:38,880
Yeah.

1454
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,560
Well, we are supposed to be speaking the king's English, right?

1455
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,200
So it's root is never route.

1456
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:50,640
But the Americans were saying root for a long time and then it became route and then we

1457
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:52,000
watch it on TV.

1458
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:53,280
We watch it in the movies.

1459
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,800
We keep hearing that word as route and it's not.

1460
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:01,680
And I don't know who came up with that shit and everyone else of these guys in the US

1461
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:04,400
started calling it route.

1462
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:04,880
Routing.

1463
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:06,000
It's not right.

1464
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:06,800
Router.

1465
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:09,120
Exactly.

1466
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:09,520
Maybe.

1467
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:10,960
So is it called a router or router?

1468
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:11,200
It's...

1469
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:17,200
You see, that thing is a digital thing.

1470
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:18,720
It is IT, right?

1471
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:19,840
There's no connection whatsoever.

1472
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:21,040
There's no connection whatsoever.

1473
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:22,240
If you...

1474
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:25,680
Whoever invented it, right, calls it a router, so be it.

1475
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:26,480
It's called a router.

1476
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:27,120
You want to...

1477
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:31,120
The origin of the word describing that gadget is router.

1478
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:35,680
But it doesn't mean that the word has been in existence for a long, long, long time.

1479
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:38,320
Root becomes route.

1480
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:39,040
It's route.

1481
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:40,720
You know what I mean?

1482
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:40,960
Yeah.

1483
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:43,760
And you know why Americans cannot call it router anyway?

1484
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:49,120
Because in American slang, router is something to do with plumbing.

1485
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:52,080
So they don't want to call it a router.

1486
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:53,040
You can collapse it as well.

1487
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:53,760
Yeah, correct.

1488
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,080
So this is what I think.

1489
00:58:56,080 --> 00:59:00,400
And it is what I believe is the case or the cause of this.

1490
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:01,760
Yeah.

1491
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:02,400
Oh gosh.

1492
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,240
Going to the root of this.

1493
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:05,440
I always bring it up.

1494
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,440
It always happens every season.

1495
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:08,400
I know it's your pet peeve.

1496
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:09,680
It is my pet peeve because...

1497
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:11,760
It's not the only word, man.

1498
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,720
I mean, if I really want to be a grammar Nazi, there's a lot of shit that I can't stand.

1499
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:16,240
But that's a great thing to see.

1500
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:18,800
It shows that you're actively listening and you're both perceptive.

1501
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:19,280
You're sharp.

1502
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:23,280
But like you, man, I mean, I also teach the subject, you know?

1503
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:24,640
And...

1504
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:25,920
So you're a much better teacher than me.

1505
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:26,960
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

1506
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:27,760
That's not my point.

1507
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:28,400
That's not my point.

1508
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:29,120
I get you.

1509
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:32,000
What I'm saying is that, I mean, two wrongs don't make a right.

1510
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:33,200
We're trained to be sensitive, right?

1511
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:36,800
So when I was listening to another coach today on social media and she was saying the word

1512
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:40,000
pronunciation is pronunciation.

1513
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:40,800
It's pronunciation.

1514
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:41,120
Exactly.

1515
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:44,000
So these are the things that because, you know, we've gone through this whole training,

1516
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:45,920
we've become very, at least more sensitive.

1517
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:46,160
Yeah.

1518
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:50,800
But you know something, man, the problem with Singaporeans per se,

1519
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:55,920
well, not just them, most Asians, it's not really pronunciation.

1520
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:58,960
The problem is more enunciation.

1521
00:59:58,960 --> 00:59:59,840
It's a lesser evil.

1522
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,960
Actually, it's not a lesser evil because in my opinion,

1523
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:10,640
it is about how the melody of your word is supposed to be.

1524
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:12,160
The stresses and the emphasis.

1525
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:12,720
Yes.

1526
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:19,040
Your inflections and where you sustain, where you shorten the syllable and phonology,

1527
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:19,680
you know.

1528
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:26,640
So that is how I prefer to teach the subject, you know, in terms of verbal, of course,

1529
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:30,480
you know, tonality is one I get you into key and I get you the resonance that you need.

1530
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:31,120
Yeah.

1531
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:37,440
Because we know that tonality is something that's very hard to teach.

1532
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:39,040
Content is content.

1533
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:41,040
Delivery of the content is something else.

1534
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:42,400
Right?

1535
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:44,560
So that's more my thing.

1536
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:48,400
I mean, if we had more time, I'd ask you like, what's the function or what's the premise of

1537
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:49,280
great tonality?

1538
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:50,000
Is it a state?

1539
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:51,920
Is it a trained muscle?

1540
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:52,640
Well, let's put it this way.

1541
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:53,280
It's frequency.

1542
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:58,720
Frequency, the power to convince people,

1543
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:01,040
taking that, just that as an example.

1544
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:03,040
It's not the old, it's not exclusive just to that.

1545
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:06,080
It is about frequency.

1546
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,480
Making someone happy, happiness, joy is a higher frequency.

1547
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:12,080
Okay.

1548
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:17,040
Usually for things that's a little bit more, gives you a little bit more, an ominous feeling

1549
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:18,480
is a lower frequency.

1550
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:20,160
Right?

1551
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:21,840
And then there's also vibration.

1552
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:22,800
I was about to go in there.

1553
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:23,680
Which is resonance.

1554
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:27,680
And resonance in your tone, how does it happen?

1555
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:29,280
It comes from your chest cavity.

1556
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:31,280
How do you activate that?

1557
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:37,040
And I found a method, which I will not share on camera because people have to pay me money.

1558
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,040
Time to book Chris.

1559
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:41,600
To get you to a particular key.

1560
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,160
So content can be, look content is content.

1561
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:52,640
But then again, delivering content by memorizing a script is an absolute cardinal sin where

1562
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:53,600
I'm concerned.

1563
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:56,240
There are other ways to do it.

1564
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,280
There are other ways to do it more effectively.

1565
01:01:59,280 --> 01:01:59,600
Right?

1566
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:01,040
Without losing yourself.

1567
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,880
As what you said earlier, I found my voice.

1568
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:12,080
I lent on what I know as an introvert that are my strengths and I use them.

1569
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:16,240
Along the same vein, it's about that.

1570
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:21,120
Not losing who you are and people still recognize that this is who this person is.

1571
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:21,680
Correct.

1572
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:22,240
Right?

1573
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:24,480
Because he's delivering it the way you ought to be delivering it.

1574
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:32,720
And it's not about memorizing because the moment you memorize, your elucidation is contrived.

1575
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:35,360
So that's what my belief is.

1576
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:37,360
Again, I'm not going to shove it down everybody's throat.

1577
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:37,920
Yeah.

1578
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:39,360
But I do with my students though.

1579
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:39,840
Correct.

1580
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:43,760
I mean, I see different schools of thought, different ways, even down to the different

1581
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:45,760
students, what do they need at different points in time?

1582
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:46,400
Yeah.

1583
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:51,360
But you're saying going down that route of the strategy to tell the younger band.

1584
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:57,920
So if the assumption, if the younger band brings it to now, this era, I feel two, three

1585
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:01,600
things that will also be relevant to people who wants to build a speaking practice, which

1586
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:03,680
is one, you need to learn how to garner attention.

1587
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:07,600
Creating a podcast is an art of garnering attention.

1588
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:10,880
Hopefully bring right people, curating right conversations.

1589
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:15,600
But more so, if you are going to be a speaker, you need to, again, be someone who delivers

1590
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:17,600
great value on a commercial basis.

1591
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:18,080
Okay.

1592
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:21,520
So how do you create an attention around you being useful?

1593
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:25,280
You can say all these things, you can teach all the things, you know the problems of your

1594
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:27,760
segment market and how do you, what's your take to that?

1595
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:28,000
Right?

1596
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,560
So that's one, creating and garnering attention.

1597
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:33,600
I think the second thing that you need to do is converting the attention.

1598
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:39,280
So conversion means, at least in my world, is making this knowledge useful and desirable

1599
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:40,800
that people want to pay for it.

1600
01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:41,200
Okay.

1601
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:41,440
Yeah.

1602
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:46,160
So I think a lot of speakers, I think in Singapore, our system trains us to just take papers,

1603
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:46,400
right?

1604
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:50,800
Exams, all the actor, again, with due respect to the trainers in Singapore, I feel we are

1605
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:53,600
so enamored over like papers and certifications.

1606
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:57,760
We don't even know like what, like for example, you teach communications, how do you sell

1607
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:02,720
this idea for the need of great communications to maybe attack client?

1608
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:02,960
Right.

1609
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:03,120
Right.

1610
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:05,600
You need to step out of your world into their world.

1611
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:10,000
So I think conversion happens when you can speak in a language that they are speaking

1612
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:15,840
to teach and say, hey, whatever you are training is desirable for them and is a need for them

1613
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:20,720
such that if they don't book you, if they don't get you, the people stand to suffer.

1614
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:24,400
So first getting the attention and then converting it such that, you know, there'll be real

1615
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:26,240
dollars coming in into your bank account.

1616
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:30,240
I feel that, you know, the speakers of today, if they are great at doing these two things,

1617
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:33,040
they are almost on track to a very flourishing practice.

1618
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:33,360
Okay.

1619
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:38,320
So basically your advice to the younger band is also the same advice you have given

1620
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:42,640
for any young person out there who's thinking about going into the speaking practice.

1621
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:42,960
Correct.

1622
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:43,600
Correct.

1623
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:43,840
So-

1624
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:44,720
Should be one and the same.

1625
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:49,520
Interesting what you said because that bit about, you know, what happens if you are speaking

1626
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:58,000
to your demographics that might not be relevant to your, whatever content you prepared.

1627
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:03,200
So you've got to adjust your content to make sure it's attractive to that particular segment

1628
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:04,720
of the marketplace that you're presenting.

1629
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:09,760
I think you brought up the word which is relevance and relevance is a tie into the goal of that.

1630
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:09,920
Right.

1631
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:14,000
So if you're just speaking for recreational, so again, the word going to premise, like being

1632
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,400
a professional speaker means you're speaking to get paid.

1633
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:17,920
You're not a hobbyist speaker.

1634
01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:21,120
So if you want to be a speaker, you could go to Hong Ling Park and you have like 20,

1635
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:23,760
30, 50 people, you can speak to entertain.

1636
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:29,200
But I think for me, given the path that I want to go, I don't want to offend people.

1637
01:05:30,560 --> 01:05:34,640
But if you want to speak and you got moolahs in the bank, then I hate to say this,

1638
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:35,840
we are in a commercial world, right?

1639
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:39,760
So we need to know the language of commerce, which is really, you know, you cannot just

1640
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:44,080
any old house speak, you need to be focused, you need to be leading and forwarding in a way such

1641
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:48,800
that the clients will say, yeah, I think this guy knows us, you know, like we can get a bit of him,

1642
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:50,320
get a piece of him or her.

1643
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:51,360
That's what I think.

1644
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:52,720
So it's not just about your craft.

1645
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:55,040
It's what we've always preached before, FD and me.

1646
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:58,160
It's not just about your craft, but you got to take care of business.

1647
01:05:58,160 --> 01:05:59,040
You got to know business.

1648
01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:00,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

1649
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:02,800
And I think that's very hard to teach as well.

1650
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:07,440
Granted, again, the whole Singaporean education system is more and more sets, more causes.

1651
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,440
I think some causes are great, right?

1652
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:13,840
But, you know, not all the trainers are like you and FD, you know, you know, business on some good

1653
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:18,720
level. So sometimes we just want to take our like curriculum design, how to speak, how to do stand

1654
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:19,600
up training is great.

1655
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:21,120
You have the subject matter is great.

1656
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:24,240
But you know, at the end of the day, who are you trying to appeal to?

1657
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:25,200
Yeah.

1658
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:26,320
What are their problems?

1659
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:29,040
How does your knowledge becomes a solution?

1660
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:33,440
If you clear all the dynamics, then you have a speaking practice, a professional speaking practice.

1661
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:37,760
So it seems to me, you know, my opinion is Ben, you know, sometimes it's a great idea

1662
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:43,360
for people to just straight away a little bit from the usual, from the usual causes that they take,

1663
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:45,440
right, for their degrees or diploma programs.

1664
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:53,200
And maybe business, business, you know, going to business, studying business is, it ought to be

1665
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:54,720
something that everyone should do.

1666
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:55,680
I like to think so.

1667
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:56,320
Really?

1668
01:06:56,320 --> 01:07:00,880
So, for example, I think the way I would look at, even like as I grow, I mean, nurture my young kid

1669
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:01,840
right now, right?

1670
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:04,560
Like he could, maybe he likes, now he's like into art, right?

1671
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:04,960
Right.

1672
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:09,760
Now I'll say, Hey, like it's great to be in the passion and the craft of art, but maybe let's open

1673
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:12,720
up his mind to say, why don't you try to monetize that?

1674
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:17,680
Because I think monetization or creating the commercialness or commercialization of that

1675
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:20,320
brings off another whole paradigm and dimension.

1676
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:20,560
Yeah.

1677
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:24,960
For example, you start to realize, ah, maybe you think your art is nice, but people think it sucks.

1678
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:26,560
Hmm, that's a good feedback, right?

1679
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:26,800
Yeah.

1680
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:30,560
Then you have that internal dialogue to say, Oh, I don't think it sucks, but why does he think it

1681
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:30,800
sucks?

1682
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:33,040
Oh, then there's a bit of maneuverability.

1683
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:37,120
And there's also another part about, Oh, how much, Oh, people say, Oh, is it $10?

1684
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:39,680
Oh, I thought I want to like maybe charge $50, right?

1685
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:40,960
Then there's another conversation.

1686
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:46,080
So I feel a lot of us are very book smart, but the book smartness to the street smartness is where

1687
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:47,920
you need to really put yourself out there.

1688
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:54,400
And when money and dollars and decisions are put on the table, it forces a next level of growth

1689
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:55,440
to us, right?

1690
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:57,200
So how can sports be commercialized?

1691
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:01,200
Again, I think commercialization sometimes gets a very evil and bad rap, right?

1692
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:06,000
Being a, I met a fair share of creators say, Ben, you know, you don't know us, right?

1693
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:09,360
Like creators are creators, you know, money is evil.

1694
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:14,480
I feel money is also a mark, is a validation that people are willing to put aside resources from

1695
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:16,560
the end to buy into your work, right?

1696
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:21,120
So if we look at it from an exchange point of view, necessarily is the economics of it.

1697
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:25,200
Then govern that, you know, you have a bit of weight, not just in your internal creative world,

1698
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:27,760
but on the external dimension, if I'm making sense.

1699
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:29,040
Wow.

1700
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:30,160
You're deep, man.

1701
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:30,800
Yeah, I think.

1702
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:35,040
You're speaking to a guy with a diploma in BTC.

1703
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:36,720
BTC is what?

1704
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:37,360
Botak Se.

1705
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:37,840
Botak Se.

1706
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:38,640
Botak B-C-M.

1707
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:40,960
Good grief.

1708
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:43,120
This guy has just dug a Pacific Ocean.

1709
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:45,120
Something so deep, like a Pacific Ocean, man.

1710
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:45,840
It's so fucking deep.

1711
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:50,320
I think speak to Chimah, but if you really like to distill it, it's like, no, don't just be in

1712
01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:51,200
your world, right?

1713
01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:55,680
But when you start to go out there, then you start to experience different interpretations of that.

1714
01:08:55,680 --> 01:08:58,240
You start to take your art and then you'll be excited.

1715
01:08:58,240 --> 01:08:59,760
I think in all sense of it.

1716
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:04,880
I'm very for business, maybe more capitalism, capitalistic, that when you put yourself out

1717
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:06,240
there, right, you will grow.

1718
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:07,440
It's painful.

1719
01:09:07,440 --> 01:09:11,200
Like for all the times I got rejected, people, clients say, hey, you're not worth this.

1720
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:12,560
You suffer for your passion.

1721
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:13,120
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1722
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:17,680
You suffer for your passion, but you also suffer in that linearity that takes you in.

1723
01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:20,320
I feel like in Singapore, it's not a cheap place to live in.

1724
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:23,120
So you could really be, you know, like indulgent in your art,

1725
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:25,120
but you've got to ask yourself sustainability as well.

1726
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:26,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1727
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:30,160
And if the bills are not being paid, if my son doesn't have money to pay the diapers

1728
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:31,520
and milk powder, how long can I do this?

1729
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:33,600
You see, that's the trouble, isn't it?

1730
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:36,800
I mean, it's to pursue something you love so much.

1731
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:41,120
Then again, you've got to think about whether or not it puts food on the table and a roof

1732
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:41,760
over your head.

1733
01:09:42,480 --> 01:09:48,000
I know I sound like bohemian or I sound like a freaking hippie when I say this, but

1734
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:51,920
that's really sad, especially when you know that something you love and you're so good at,

1735
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:58,720
but it's just not going to be able to help you survive in a country that's expensive to live in.

1736
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:01,760
I think my counter thought too, it doesn't have to be sad though.

1737
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:04,320
Like it's just how you want to play your game.

1738
01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:08,400
Because again, I mean, technically some people will find that if you're doing a nine to five

1739
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:13,040
and you're not happy with it, then if it pays the bills and you can do something happy from the side.

1740
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:18,480
Okay, I'm sorry, my friend, but just because you're speaking in the context of the people

1741
01:10:18,480 --> 01:10:24,800
that you've been surrounded with, you know, in your environment, in your profession, I may be

1742
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:29,840
quite presumptuous by saying what I just did, but I think so because why?

1743
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:35,200
In my environment, okay, there are people out there who's great at art.

1744
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:38,880
Since you use art as a subject, really great.

1745
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:45,600
We're talking about realism art, handmade and drawn, and then try and sell it.

1746
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:46,320
No one buys.

1747
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:52,000
And then you have people who get hired to do artwork in the sites of buildings

1748
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:58,960
and they're beautiful stuff and they get paid fucking peanuts because people out there go,

1749
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:01,520
well, yeah, you know, I mean, you're just an artist.

1750
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:03,120
I mean, thanks for this great work.

1751
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:03,840
I love it.

1752
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:04,960
This is how much it will pay you.

1753
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:07,920
You know, and they pay you cheap.

1754
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:12,160
It's a perception of stereotypes as well that come into play.

1755
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:13,680
So, it is sad.

1756
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:19,760
That's why I say sad because there are people, I have friends, I know whose kids are great

1757
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:24,240
at art and they love it, but they know they can't survive here.

1758
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:25,200
What do they do?

1759
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:26,400
They find them somewhere else.

1760
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:26,960
Correct.

1761
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:28,960
To have, you know, to make-

1762
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:31,360
But to have the choice and option is a sort of privilege in itself.

1763
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:32,640
Not everyone has that option.

1764
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:33,200
Precisely.

1765
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:34,000
Which makes it even more sad.

1766
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:35,440
Yeah, which makes it even sadder.

1767
01:11:35,440 --> 01:11:43,600
So, you know, I just think that, man, yeah, maybe my exposure to art is a bit too much.

1768
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:47,840
But again, like where else, I always wonder like where else in the world would there be

1769
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:51,680
a place where, you know, you still can be happy and still make something that's sustainable

1770
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:53,200
doing what you love for the rest of your life.

1771
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:53,520
Yeah.

1772
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:58,560
I mean, for all the cities that have spoken in, I still see that sense of like, you know,

1773
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:00,640
imperfection, that realism coming in.

1774
01:12:00,640 --> 01:12:01,200
Of course.

1775
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:01,840
I don't know.

1776
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:02,240
Of course.

1777
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:05,200
I mean, the grass always seem greener elsewhere.

1778
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:08,400
Of course, there will always be, there will always be it.

1779
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:10,160
You know, there's no utopia here.

1780
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:10,720
Yeah.

1781
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:17,360
But sadly, you know, I mean, there's got to be a way to strive towards it.

1782
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:18,640
That doesn't lose our soul.

1783
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:19,200
Exactly.

1784
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:21,760
And we should never lose our souls.

1785
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:22,240
We should.

1786
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:22,800
Yeah.

1787
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:23,040
We should.

1788
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:24,640
Our soul of life falls, right?

1789
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:25,120
Yeah.

1790
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:26,880
If we lose that, then what's the point?

1791
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:27,200
Yeah.

1792
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:31,600
And then people get stereotyped into things, you know, like for example, if you go to Australia,

1793
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:36,560
New Zealand, UK, even the US, if you're in a trade, you're a tradie, you know, whether

1794
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:42,320
you're a plumber, whether you're an electrician, right, you're not looked down upon.

1795
01:12:42,320 --> 01:12:43,120
You're not.

1796
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:51,360
People don't make funny remarks to you or bargain your price down or say that it was

1797
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:54,800
a simple job, you know, and you're charging me so much, you know, why am I, why do I have

1798
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:59,520
to pay you transportation, blah, blah, blah, which you, you know, this is, me saying this,

1799
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:01,200
you can recognize all that, don't you?

1800
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:01,680
Right?

1801
01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:02,240
You know, most people-

1802
01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:02,880
It's very real.

1803
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:03,680
It's very real.

1804
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:06,880
But this doesn't happen elsewhere.

1805
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:10,560
Tradies are respected because they can do the kind of stuff that you can't do.

1806
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:15,120
This is where we have yet to learn something, you know, as a people.

1807
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:17,120
Singapore is a hard place without heart.

1808
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:20,240
That's how I like to see it.

1809
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:22,960
It's a hard place to live and we could do with a lot more heart.

1810
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:23,360
Yeah.

1811
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:26,800
Which I think is sorely lacking at this time.

1812
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:28,160
I love my country, don't get me wrong.

1813
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:28,800
I love it too.

1814
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:29,200
I love it too.

1815
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:31,440
Because I love my country, that's why I say this.

1816
01:13:31,440 --> 01:13:35,120
I always believe that, you know, when people stop complaining, it's a bad sign.

1817
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:38,720
The fact that people are complaining shows that, you know, we still love this place enough to-

1818
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:39,680
To say something.

1819
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:40,240
Yeah.

1820
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:43,040
Rather than just, you know, be sheep.

1821
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:43,540
Yep.

1822
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:46,320
I can see where that was coming from.

1823
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:50,400
That's something I never liked actually, to be honest.

1824
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:50,640
Yeah.

1825
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:53,120
So anyway, Ben, thanks so very much for your insights, man.

1826
01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:54,080
Thanks for being on the show.

1827
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:54,720
No problem.

1828
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:55,840
I hope you had fun.

1829
01:13:55,840 --> 01:13:57,120
I hope you enjoyed yourself.

1830
01:13:57,120 --> 01:13:57,520
I sure did.

1831
01:13:57,520 --> 01:13:59,360
My goodness, this guy is so cheap, you know.

1832
01:13:59,360 --> 01:13:59,840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1833
01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:01,600
Maybe too convoluted sometimes.

1834
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:02,080
No, no, no.

1835
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:02,800
Too much dialogue ahead.

1836
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:03,440
I wouldn't say that.

1837
01:14:03,440 --> 01:14:04,240
No, I wouldn't say that.

1838
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:06,640
It's just that you are a very intelligent guy.

1839
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:09,920
And this is how you express yourself.

1840
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:11,120
And I respect that.

1841
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:13,680
There's nothing wrong with the way you express yourself.

1842
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:21,280
It's just that, oh, I was hoping to have a real like, you know, a simplified conversation.

1843
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:22,320
But anyway, it's good.

1844
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:23,200
I welcome this.

1845
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:24,000
I welcome it.

1846
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:26,320
It doesn't matter to me because I get what you mean.

1847
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:32,400
And I thank you for really sharing your thoughts and your journey and, you know, what you've been through.

1848
01:14:33,440 --> 01:14:39,120
You know, and I think a great takeaway for me is that, listen, man, you can be an introvert.

1849
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:40,960
You still turn out great.

1850
01:14:41,680 --> 01:14:42,800
Just don't be a fool.

1851
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:46,080
And you know that when you found a talent and you don't work hard at it.

1852
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:49,760
Yeah, that's my takeaway, man.

1853
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:50,880
I mean, you worked hard at it.

1854
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:51,440
You sat down.

1855
01:14:51,440 --> 01:14:52,320
You reflect.

1856
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:53,520
Reflecting is hard work.

1857
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:55,360
It drives you up the freaking wall, doesn't it?

1858
01:14:56,880 --> 01:14:57,440
All the time.

1859
01:14:57,440 --> 01:15:05,120
I mean, my takeaway from just watching you run your thing, it's like there's always a season for you to celebrate yourself being alive.

1860
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:05,680
Right?

1861
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:07,600
Like I see you running this setup.

1862
01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:13,840
It takes time, energy, resources, and even that clarity and purity of intention, to put it very simply.

1863
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:18,800
Like you need to know what you freaking want and to stick by it and to hold your guns.

1864
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:19,440
And you did.

1865
01:15:19,440 --> 01:15:19,760
Right?

1866
01:15:19,760 --> 01:15:21,680
And I think that's something to be celebrated as well.

1867
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:22,320
Thank you so much.

1868
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:24,320
Yeah.

1869
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:25,040
Thank you so much.

1870
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:31,520
I mean, I thank God every day that, you know, when I see the studio and I come in and say, oh my goodness.

1871
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:32,320
Dream come true.

1872
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:37,280
And really, and I invite only special people to come in here, man.

1873
01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:37,680
Thank you.

1874
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:39,760
And really, I'm proud of what you've done.

1875
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:42,160
I'm proud of what you've become and proud of what you've made yourself.

1876
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:45,440
And you know, I've been following, you know that I haven't.

1877
01:15:45,440 --> 01:15:46,640
I know what you've been up to.

1878
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:47,680
Still a work in progress.

1879
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:48,560
Like, of course.

1880
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:49,600
So what's it mean?

1881
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:52,160
So to end the show, can you just tell me and tell everyone?

1882
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:52,880
Yeah.

1883
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:55,520
What's your plans for the future?

1884
01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:57,040
My plans to...

1885
01:15:57,040 --> 01:15:57,840
In the near future?

1886
01:15:57,840 --> 01:15:58,320
Future.

1887
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:03,680
I think nothing about, I mean, again, I think I come to a stage whereby I think business is

1888
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:06,960
definitely important, but I think what's important is more the roles that I play.

1889
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:11,760
I want to be a present as well as a dad who's like energetic, dynamic,

1890
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:15,440
and someone who lives a larger than life kind of person.

1891
01:16:15,440 --> 01:16:19,760
So that, you know, when my younger boy looks up to me, he say, hey, you know, I could turn to you

1892
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:22,880
whenever I have issues or challenges or fears or concerns whatsoever.

1893
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:28,880
And now obviously to my wife is to also be that stronghold for her as she has been for me for the

1894
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:31,920
past, you know, five, seven, close to 10 years for business.

1895
01:16:32,480 --> 01:16:32,880
Yeah.

1896
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:33,120
Yeah.

1897
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:34,160
It's my season right now.

1898
01:16:34,160 --> 01:16:35,680
This is my calling.

1899
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:36,480
Great.

1900
01:16:36,480 --> 01:16:37,280
Good to hear that.

1901
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:38,480
Good to know that, man.

1902
01:16:38,480 --> 01:16:40,080
And I wish you all the best with that.

1903
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:40,480
Thank you.

1904
01:16:40,480 --> 01:16:42,960
Be a great dad and be a good husband.

1905
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:44,960
Thank you so much, Ben, for being on the show.

1906
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:45,760
Thank you, everyone.

1907
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:49,680
This is season four and this is the first shoot for season four.

1908
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:54,560
It may not be the first episode you've seen so far, but you know, it is my first shoot.

1909
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:58,080
And I'm glad to be back in a hot seat in front of the cameras and in front of the microphone.

1910
01:16:58,080 --> 01:16:59,120
It's getting really hot right now.

1911
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:00,160
Yeah, it is.

1912
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:04,720
And I've had Benjamin Loh with me and do catch this guy, man.

1913
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:08,240
Sometimes you can go to LinkedIn and you can also go to YouTube.

1914
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:14,720
You find him there and listen to the stuff that he does, you know, and how he gets you going on

1915
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:16,720
stage as a public speaker.

1916
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:19,280
This has been a Chris Hansen conversation.

1917
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:20,480
This is Chris Hansen.

1918
01:17:20,480 --> 01:17:23,360
I'll see you guys again real soon.

1919
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:47,200
Bye bye.