1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,640
I haven't listened to radio intentionally for the longest time.

2
00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:10,000
No fucking way, really?

3
00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,760
Yeah, because I literally have better things to do with my life,

4
00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,880
because every single moment I have this,

5
00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,160
and this gives me anything I want in the world.

6
00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,400
There are more than a million podcasts, my friend.

7
00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:23,760
Even on a drive, in the car.

8
00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:24,560
Even on a drive.

9
00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:25,680
You don't turn on the radio.

10
00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:26,800
It's a waste of time.

11
00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:32,240
So there's only two broadcasters in Singapore.

12
00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,920
Because you see yourself as only a broadcaster.

13
00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,760
And the thing about this is, okay, today, let me ask a very simple question.

14
00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,840
Okay, if you said those things about somebody in 1978,

15
00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,200
I would agree with you more than if you said it in 1985,

16
00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:51,600
and then more in 1990, and then more in even 2000, right?

17
00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:56,800
Today, none of that is true.

18
00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,240
You just have people who are cowardly,

19
00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,200
who are staying stuck to the teat of that business,

20
00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,160
because that's the way that particular business works.

21
00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,160
And I know how much money they don't pay.

22
00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:12,480
So it's not worth it at all.

23
00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,400
This is just lazy.

24
00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:15,920
It's okay.

25
00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:16,880
It's comfortable.

26
00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:17,680
I won't say lazy.

27
00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:18,480
It's comfortable.

28
00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:20,880
It's just comfortable.

29
00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,920
Because that is what it is.

30
00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:24,800
It's comfortable.

31
00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,160
I hold the entire situation,

32
00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,240
I hold the entire group of people who produce this content,

33
00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,360
this level of content culpable.

34
00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:37,120
Because they're all...

35
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:42,560
Because this is the easier thing to do,

36
00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:44,960
because what you start with is,

37
00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:46,880
oh, come, let me explain to you how things work.

38
00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,680
By the way, this is not a new speech, how things work.

39
00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:51,440
It's always been like that, right?

40
00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:52,560
So here, come, come.

41
00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,000
Let me explain to you how things work.

42
00:01:54,800 --> 00:02:01,360
The world today doesn't care about mass media in Singapore anyway,

43
00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,040
because it has made itself irrelevant,

44
00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,800
because it has been telling itself that I can't do this,

45
00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,360
I can't do that, I can't do that, and so forth, and so I don't.

46
00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,760
And so on a daily basis, people can get into their cars,

47
00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,440
even the most trapped place they can be in radio,

48
00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,920
and confidently without turning on the radio,

49
00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:22,560
say, I'm not going to miss anything.

50
00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:25,840
And that's the key.

51
00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,480
If you create something where you go,

52
00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,160
if I don't have this station on, I'm going to miss something,

53
00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:34,720
that's what you need to have.

54
00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:40,080
And this, again, I can say, I can accept that it's something

55
00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,240
that is an unforeseen circumstance.

56
00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:47,520
It is the unintended consequence of control from the top.

57
00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:50,880
All those different things can be attributed that way.

58
00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:56,640
But along the way, it's a whole bunch of people,

59
00:02:56,640 --> 00:02:59,120
and I'm going to use a terrible analogy here, right?

60
00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,520
But just imagine Nazi Germany.

61
00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,320
Oh no, I don't know how many analogies

62
00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:05,840
it came up with already on the show.

63
00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:10,000
Yeah, so you see, you have Hitler on top as an idea,

64
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,000
you have Himmler, you have a few other people along the way,

65
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:12,720
right?

66
00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,440
Just as it goes down the road, somebody's got to go like,

67
00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,080
hey, I think, brother, this is not a good idea.

68
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:19,360
Not sure.

69
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:23,760
Someone's got to pump the brakes somewhere.

70
00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:27,600
The thing is, you know what?

71
00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:28,560
People can say the whole thing.

72
00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,240
I was young, I was in the army, I had no choice.

73
00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,080
There's a terrible accident, I don't know where that comes from.

74
00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,480
But if you can always just put it down to that,

75
00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,080
and at the same time, you dare to say to other people

76
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:43,760
that what I do for a living is creative,

77
00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,040
then one of those things is true.

78
00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:49,760
And only one of those things is true.

79
00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,360
But if they lose their jobs, for example,

80
00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,840
they will no longer have a platform to exercise this creativity anyway.

81
00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:59,840
So he's really a rock and a hard place, don't you think so?

82
00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:00,640
No, it's not.

83
00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:01,440
It is.

84
00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,880
If you don't recognize that there's nobody in your disco,

85
00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:10,640
why do you come up with these things?

86
00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:11,680
I was this close to saying,

87
00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,600
then you're just Roger Kool playing a set, right?

88
00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:13,920
But no.

89
00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:19,760
That's a deep cut, by the way.

90
00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,640
Oh man, oh man, that was the deepest.

91
00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:24,960
Kai's on the internet, what is Roger Kool?

92
00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:25,920
What is Roger Kool?

93
00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,400
And why is Chris laughing at all at this joke?

94
00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:29,680
Oh my goodness.

95
00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,600
And then when you find out what the joke is,

96
00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,000
you go like, why is Chris laughing at all at this joke?

97
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,600
Joe, Joe, Joe, Joe, lots of eggs are going to be thrown at you somehow, man.

98
00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:38,160
I tell you.

99
00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:42,800
Have you heard an untrue word so far?

100
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,200
I cannot disagree with you.

101
00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,520
I'm not here to debate or argue with you,

102
00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:52,560
but I also feel that there are people out there who are just out to charity market.

103
00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,240
You know, they want to earn a living.

104
00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:54,800
Yes.

105
00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,960
And I can tell you, probably deep down inside, they feel like,

106
00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:00,880
oh, fuck, I wish I could do more.

107
00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,120
But they just can't, I suppose.

108
00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:04,720
I suppose. I am supposing.

109
00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,680
That's what I empathize with them for.

110
00:05:11,840 --> 00:05:12,880
I don't really blame them.

111
00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:14,640
I would blame the people upstairs.

112
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,480
There's the people upstairs that go like,

113
00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,640
no, our guys are going to do it that way.

114
00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:22,720
And that's it.

115
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,080
And then people get the green light, they can go ahead.

116
00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,480
And then they start entertaining the masses again.

117
00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:34,160
And that's the part that I'm missing the point there,

118
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:35,360
but the entertainment part, right?

119
00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,760
Because we are in a performance-based system,

120
00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:44,000
and performance is about also quality and where you perform at, right?

121
00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,680
So there's this whole idea, yeah, so people just cherry-muck.

122
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,600
I go, yeah, but if you want to cherry-muck,

123
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,640
you don't do it in this field, right?

124
00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:59,600
You don't go like, hey, you can drive quite well, right?

125
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:00,960
Ah, you know you should earn a living.

126
00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:01,920
Go and drive F1.

127
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:04,800
Yeah, go and drive F1.

128
00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:06,400
No, don't drive too fast.

129
00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,840
Just drive below the speed limit.

130
00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:11,120
Make sure people get by.

131
00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:11,760
No accidents.

132
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:13,600
Go.

133
00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:14,480
And anyone criticize you?

134
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,240
Just say, I'm just earning a living, man.

135
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:18,720
I didn't drive fast.

136
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:20,480
Okay, moving along.

137
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,520
We've been talking for about an hour and a half.

138
00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:25,120
And I still have things to ask you.

139
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:25,620
Okay, sure.

140
00:06:27,280 --> 00:06:29,280
You had quite a number of partners, man.

141
00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:30,080
Let's name them.

142
00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,880
The first partnership you had was with who?

143
00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:34,320
Melissa Hyatt.

144
00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:36,640
That was the Morning Express, right?

145
00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:37,040
Yeah.

146
00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:37,840
Then Melissa left.

147
00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:40,240
Yeah, she left.

148
00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:43,040
I made her leave because...

149
00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:44,640
No, I actually can't remember.

150
00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,280
She went on to better things.

151
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:48,480
Okay.

152
00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,480
Yeah, she joined corporate life, got real money.

153
00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,320
Then after Melissa?

154
00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,720
After Melissa, I want to say...

155
00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:05,920
Well, the next partner that I did have was Vera Lim.

156
00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:07,440
Okay, don't remember her.

157
00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,320
She was also one of the original cohort on the Class 95 shows.

158
00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:16,720
And then they brought in Deborah Hsu, also known as Jessica Hsu, the singer.

159
00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:17,680
Jessica Hsu, yeah.

160
00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:22,080
So she came in and we had a pretty good run on the air.

161
00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,480
We sounded like a couple.

162
00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,960
We sounded like a married couple with good vocabulary.

163
00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:30,960
But we did work together and it was quite...

164
00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:32,480
I think the show was interesting.

165
00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,600
People could sense drama from the show and it was real.

166
00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:36,100
Okay.

167
00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,080
And then they brought in FD.

168
00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:40,580
FD.

169
00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,080
Yeah.

170
00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:48,160
And that was again, another change that was...

171
00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,680
I actually was very resistant to that change.

172
00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:52,180
Why?

173
00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,160
Well, because I thought, first of all, okay, we're in the radio business.

174
00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,400
We're trying to connect with people one-on-one.

175
00:07:58,400 --> 00:07:59,760
So everybody has their own philosophy.

176
00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:04,480
I have my philosophy and it was about radio being this personal connection, this real thing.

177
00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:11,120
And the concept that they had was to bring in a fella with a nickname

178
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:12,800
or a name that wasn't real.

179
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:13,300
Right?

180
00:08:13,300 --> 00:08:13,800
So I'm going to...

181
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,800
Actually, listen, I'm happy to have him on the show as Mark.

182
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,320
But now it's all the Flying Dutchman.

183
00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:23,840
And this is with the input of Burnett Lim as well.

184
00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:28,000
So Burnett was very much in charge of putting the shows together.

185
00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:28,640
Right.

186
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:29,140
Yeah.

187
00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,880
And as it turned out, I mean, look, he was right about that.

188
00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:34,160
I mean, the name was interesting.

189
00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:35,840
You know, so Joe and the Flying Dutchman.

190
00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:36,800
Yeah, it worked.

191
00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:42,000
Yeah, it was... So that name worked for the marketing.

192
00:08:42,560 --> 00:08:54,400
And then in terms of what the show was, Mark was fun to work with because he got it.

193
00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:56,800
As in, he got what was being said.

194
00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,440
As in... So I would say something and it was a double entend.

195
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:07,040
And Mark would just die laughing on the other side.

196
00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:07,540
Right?

197
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,160
And it gave the audience a sense of confidence in something.

198
00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,680
You know, for some people it's like, you know, I really can't understand his laugh or whatever it is.

199
00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:20,720
But for other people, it was like, oh, okay, I've licensed because something just happened.

200
00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:22,080
And I got away with that.

201
00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:28,400
So that whole thing combined with that energy and all that, that really made a difference.

202
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:29,120
Yeah, I felt.

203
00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,120
I felt that that show was really, really fun.

204
00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:35,040
Yeah, I enjoyed that.

205
00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:35,760
I enjoyed that.

206
00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:41,120
I think there's this thing about chemistry, whether or not, and I'll speak frankly about it,

207
00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:45,600
whether or not it is a well-founded, real chemistry.

208
00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,320
And I'll say that he has that with Glenn.

209
00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:50,800
It's a real chemistry there.

210
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,920
Or it is a well-performed show.

211
00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,720
And I think with me, that was more the case.

212
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:01,520
We didn't hang out outside of the show.

213
00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,760
It wasn't, first of all, isn't my style to do any of that.

214
00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,960
And for him, he wasn't, I don't think he was very keen to do that as well.

215
00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:15,200
And actually, you know, if we talk about it and I recount what happened,

216
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:21,440
where it began to go south was when we actually tried to hang out together.

217
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:29,520
So I made some kind of mistake socially, which involved him getting into the doghouse with his wife.

218
00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,120
And it was one of those things.

219
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:33,760
And I think slowly that soured on.

220
00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:36,320
But yeah, that was basically it.

221
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:42,560
And it was that point that I decided that I had had enough of what was happening at the company,

222
00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,960
because I was impatiently patient.

223
00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:48,720
It had been 10 years by then.

224
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:54,480
And I thought, okay, now I have the partner that I can make a real difference with.

225
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,440
This is the guy who could do that.

226
00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,840
And at the time, and this is the thing that really kind of broke my heart at the time,

227
00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:10,800
at the time, he had come from such a bad place, such a place of struggle,

228
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:16,560
that he was grateful for the scraps they were offering him.

229
00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:21,840
You know, as a morning show co-host, because I knew what he was getting paid

230
00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:26,160
as a co-host of this big show.

231
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:28,720
And I was saying that this is just shameful.

232
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:30,640
And I thought, you know what?

233
00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,440
I really think I've got what I need now to do better than this.

234
00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:41,520
And so that's when I went to speak to the other radio stations across the street,

235
00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:43,760
because I'd begun all these conversations before.

236
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,280
I'd already tried to negotiate for more and the biggest share of things and all that.

237
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:58,080
It got to the point where it was evident that we were making so much money from this show,

238
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:03,760
and nothing significant was going to come our way.

239
00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:04,880
In terms of compensation.

240
00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:06,000
In terms of compensation.

241
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:11,440
When I talked about how much money I was getting from the show, and mind you, right,

242
00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,760
I mean, it's one of those difficult things to complain about,

243
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,240
because if you just look at the dollar value, you go like,

244
00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:19,600
you're getting actually quite good money.

245
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:20,320
I go, yes.

246
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:27,520
But you know, my friends who are merchant bankers or private bankers or whatever,

247
00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:31,040
and all that, they're getting a very much more significant share of things.

248
00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:36,240
And even if you're talking about things like, so I won't go into the specifics of it,

249
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:43,200
but had I been paid just 2% of the revenue that I had helped create,

250
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:44,720
I would have stayed.

251
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,120
It would have been my retirement home.

252
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:52,400
I would have been able to live well, have a nice place,

253
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,040
not even have the money to pay up stuff in cash,

254
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,680
but just to be able to afford bigger loans.

255
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:04,560
But it really, really upset me that I had to create the rest of it.

256
00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:07,120
And this is where business growth had happened,

257
00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,480
because by the time I had said I had enough,

258
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:16,240
I was making seven times my radio income outside.

259
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,480
Now, people who are doing the math go like, wow, there must be millions.

260
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,240
And you're like, no, actually it was sad,

261
00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:32,240
because I was really working so hard that the least productive time that I had

262
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:33,200
was radio, radio time.

263
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:41,120
It was like radio was the least paying of all my clients for the most of my time.

264
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,320
So when I talked about being a prostitute,

265
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:47,840
I know what I'm talking about.

266
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:49,200
I felt it at that time.

267
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:54,240
So you left, you left media corp at the time?

268
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:55,120
Was it TCS or media corp?

269
00:13:55,120 --> 00:14:01,360
It had become, I can't recall, but I think it had become media corp at the time.

270
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:06,800
I left, I actually had a deal for FD to join me for more money.

271
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:18,080
And what I didn't calculate was the gratitude that he had felt to Bernard basically for four years.

272
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,040
Again, like I said, lifting him out of where he was.

273
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:27,280
And again, all this in retrospect, it's going to sound like they were paying him nothing.

274
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,480
It's not nothing, but it wasn't something.

275
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,320
It wasn't value for value.

276
00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,240
It just, it got to the point where it got very clear to me.

277
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,920
It said they're not going to pay you because they can't.

278
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,160
I mean, I would say if you really can't, that's fine.

279
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:47,920
I work with clients who don't have budget.

280
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:49,200
They can't.

281
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:50,720
I want to help you.

282
00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:51,520
I can work with you.

283
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:53,680
But they didn't want to.

284
00:14:55,600 --> 00:15:00,240
And the proof of it was when I sat down with HR and I actually proposed a thing to them,

285
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:01,680
say, what if I just did this?

286
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,600
What if it was just 2% of revenue?

287
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:06,800
Does that sound like a fair number?

288
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,960
And the answer instantaneously was, yeah, it sounds okay.

289
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:13,760
And then they did the numbers.

290
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,040
So this is it.

291
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:25,120
You're going to you intellectually accept the idea that someone can get a fair share or,

292
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,000
whether you say it's fair or not, right?

293
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,560
A share of some significance.

294
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,280
You intellectually can agree with that.

295
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:38,080
But when push comes to shove, you go like, oh, but cannot, right?

296
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,640
And you're like, you don't want to.

297
00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,040
And then the thing is, you're pulling the trigger.

298
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,080
You can see basically that it's not going to move any forward anyway.

299
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:48,880
So what's the point?

300
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:49,440
Yeah.

301
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,840
So let's talk about partnerships of yours.

302
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,440
You were an FD and then after that, who were you with?

303
00:15:55,440 --> 00:16:03,840
So I went and then I did a show with Maggie Lim and actually with...

304
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,320
Still in media court.

305
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:07,200
And that must have been told.

306
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:07,440
No, no, no, no, no, no.

307
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:07,840
That was moved.

308
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,440
I moved on to, I moved on.

309
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,920
So this is again, this is a very incestuous world, right?

310
00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,000
Everybody who used to be there is somewhere else, right?

311
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,120
Even across the street, right?

312
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,840
I was the one who swam downstream, right?

313
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:21,120
Everybody else swam upstream.

314
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:22,080
You mean towards SLF?

315
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:22,800
Towards media court.

316
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:23,760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, media court.

317
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,520
I mean, you know, media court, first of all, right?

318
00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:26,160
Yeah.

319
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:33,040
So I went to join Power and I had this thing, this non-compete clause, right?

320
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,600
Which stupidly I had put into my own contract.

321
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:36,160
Okay.

322
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,800
Because I'm this crazy kind of person.

323
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:47,680
I like the idea of professional, I would say integrity, a professional standard to myself.

324
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:48,240
Right.

325
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,640
And so I stupidly put it into my contract that there should be a...

326
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:53,360
Non-compete requirement.

327
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,360
A non-compete time or whatever it is.

328
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,920
And seriously, this is the ego of a young man going into paper.

329
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:01,920
It's not well-advised.

330
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:08,400
And because I also didn't use a lawyer, I should have got a lawyer to do it for me, right?

331
00:17:09,120 --> 00:17:10,560
So anyway, I was there, Power.

332
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,720
I joined the show with Hamish Brown and Maggie.

333
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:15,520
Right.

334
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,160
And Hamish, actually, as soon as he heard that I was coming over,

335
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,920
he just imagined that I was going to throw him out and, you know, just displace him.

336
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,560
And it's really not what I want to do.

337
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:25,040
Right.

338
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:29,440
Me, I'm always about doing the show, doing the best show possible.

339
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:31,360
And so it was quite...

340
00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:33,360
I mean, it was okay, you know.

341
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:39,440
Different people have different, I would say, do different levels of preparation for the show.

342
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,320
So we had, you know, different results there.

343
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:43,520
We had some fun stuff.

344
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,880
And actually, that first year that I went across to Power,

345
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,960
they had the best financial year they ever had.

346
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,360
They had reasonable ratings as well.

347
00:17:55,360 --> 00:18:00,320
And actually, because I was leaving, and I did leave in the end,

348
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,320
I actually opened the door and left, right?

349
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:09,600
The people who stayed back actually were those they considered important.

350
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:10,240
Right.

351
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,560
And if you're watching this, you know who you are.

352
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:19,280
They called them in for private one-on-one meetings, offered them, you know,

353
00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,720
take the deal now, what do you call it?

354
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,640
Upgrades to their packages and what have you and all that.

355
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:27,200
Wow.

356
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:32,400
And it was to lock them up because I was coming for them.

357
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,400
They just...

358
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,400
I was going to come for them.

359
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,360
It wasn't very clear from the start.

360
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:44,240
Because I had always said I want to change the way this business is being done.

361
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:44,880
Okay.

362
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:45,520
Right.

363
00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:51,040
And so I was going to say, for me, if I had it my way, I was going to do this,

364
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:51,840
I was going to do this.

365
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:56,960
So they really scurried to shore up their talent and what have you.

366
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:01,920
So there were a lot of people that I approached and talked to

367
00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:07,360
who benefited from the counter deals that were offered to them.

368
00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:07,860
Okay.

369
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:13,440
And there were some that I didn't care to approach but also got a good deal as well.

370
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:17,760
Counter deals from the management.

371
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:18,320
Sorry?

372
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:18,800
Counter deals.

373
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:19,360
Yeah.

374
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:21,360
It's just ways to secure talent.

375
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:24,160
So basically they made sure that they locked them down.

376
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:24,720
Yeah.

377
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,160
But you see, for me, I had been talking about all these things, right?

378
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,160
Better pay.

379
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:35,360
I talked about using advertising to support the radio show.

380
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:38,480
Because we were doing all kinds of stuff to try and promote.

381
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,640
And I was saying, use TV.

382
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,320
You guys actually had the TV stations, use all those things, whatever it is, right?

383
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,600
To promote the shows and be active with it and all that.

384
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,080
And then it's like after I left and said, oh yeah, yeah, we have to do this.

385
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:53,600
I was like...

386
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:54,240
Thanks, Rick.

387
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:54,880
Thank you very much.

388
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,200
I said it, then you guys did it after I left.

389
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:01,840
It's just frustrating again that it's always about...

390
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:02,320
Sorry.

391
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:02,880
No worries.

392
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:08,320
I'm always about this idea of motivations and thinking about what you need to do

393
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:13,040
from a manager's perspective to motivate the best behavior.

394
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:14,880
Is it me or my sound's going crazy?

395
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:16,320
No, I can hear you perfectly well.

396
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:16,880
Okay.

397
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:17,440
All right.

398
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:18,080
Okay.

399
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:19,040
Then it's me.

400
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:23,280
No, so yeah, they're just frustrating in that.

401
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:24,160
And that was the way it was.

402
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:30,480
And I never, you know, I don't go, woe is me, whatever it is.

403
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:36,000
Because I'm always thought of myself as someone who just drives my own ship.

404
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,680
And I actually learned a lot of lessons from that.

405
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,360
And if you ask me, okay, so we're talking about partnership.

406
00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:45,360
Let me just finish the partnership stories first, right?

407
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:47,440
So there was a whole moving around.

408
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:53,920
Hamish eventually left and I was doing a show with Denise Tan, the morning show.

409
00:20:53,920 --> 00:21:02,640
And then someone from 913 approached me at the time, you know, and there was just a

410
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,960
discussion about, you know, whether I'd be interested to come over and whatever.

411
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,000
And he said, I didn't think you'd be interested at all.

412
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,960
And I go like, hey, I'm always open to see what you have to offer.

413
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:24,560
And there was an opportunity to be part of something that I thought was a viable

414
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,600
challenger to the stations.

415
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:28,560
Right.

416
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:33,280
And also I managed to, and I thought, okay, I could have a chance to work with somebody

417
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,080
who I really, really, really enjoyed working with.

418
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:37,040
Wow.

419
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:38,480
Who might that be?

420
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:39,760
So it's Petrina Kao.

421
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,200
Ah, okay.

422
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:51,200
So Petrina, of all the radio co-hosts I've had, as an overall package of emotional

423
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:58,480
intelligence, actual intelligence, I would say, I would say, I would say, I would say

424
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,760
I would rank her the one of the highest in that combination.

425
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:02,080
Okay.

426
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:02,880
In that combination.

427
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,160
So what was really, really interesting about doing the show with Petrina is that there

428
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:11,600
was a show where you actually heard a show with two real people on the radio.

429
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,640
So it was very, very personal radio.

430
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,040
This was Kiss 92, right?

431
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:18,800
91.3.

432
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,440
So it was Radio 913 at the time.

433
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:22,640
So it was launched.

434
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:31,120
And so we were working at the time with Hubert Tang, who had been hired to look after the

435
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:32,880
station, to be in charge of the station.

436
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:40,320
And I had my disagreements with Hubert about music.

437
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:49,920
Again, because, and this is always about what personal agenda is about and desires and all

438
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:50,480
have you, right?

439
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,800
Hubert really, really likes music.

440
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,880
I mean, seriously, he likes music, very, very nice breadth of music he likes.

441
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:04,080
And 913 at the time he came back was supposed to be this 80s, 90s radio station.

442
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:04,880
Retro station.

443
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,600
And I thought, you know, that's a good play.

444
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:08,800
It's a powerful play.

445
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:13,440
This is how you're going to get an audience because all the familiar stuff.

446
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:18,560
Do we have anything that's not stolen?

447
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:28,080
And the one thing that bugged me at the time, and again, this is just me being not the person

448
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:35,360
I should be playing as a team member, is that he wanted to do 80s and 90s music.

449
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:36,560
And I thought, fantastic.

450
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:37,760
That's going to be a good play.

451
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,760
And so I was like, I'm going to do it.

452
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:40,560
I'm going to do it.

453
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,840
So 80s and 90s music, I thought, fantastic, that's going to be great.

454
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:52,560
But he wanted to go back in time as it were and play the songs that people didn't get

455
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:52,960
to hear.

456
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:54,560
Okay.

457
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:55,680
So the B-sides, right?

458
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:56,000
Right.

459
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:02,640
So for me, being quite a commercial person, thinking about how to get an audience, right?

460
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:09,680
I was like, dude, this stuff failed the first time.

461
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,000
You know, it's a B-side.

462
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,040
We don't want to play B-sides because people don't want to.

463
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:16,080
Don't recognize it.

464
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:16,320
Yeah.

465
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:17,120
It's the whole point of it.

466
00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:18,000
It's not familiar.

467
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:18,240
Yeah.

468
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:24,880
So we had a little bit of disagreement around that whole thing, but it was quickly overcome

469
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:32,080
by the invasion of one other guy and that was Jamie Maldrom.

470
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:33,120
Okay.

471
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:33,440
Yeah.

472
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:39,680
So Jamie comes from a radio family in Australia and he had circumstances that made it important

473
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:44,160
for him to get a job in the business.

474
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,120
Certain things were changing in the way he was earning his living as well.

475
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,160
And so he came in, proposed something to the SPH management.

476
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,720
They took him on and eventually he took over the radio station.

477
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:57,440
From Hubert.

478
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:58,080
Yeah.

479
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,080
And then Hubert departed.

480
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:01,680
Yeah.

481
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:07,680
And, you know, it's just one of those things where, again, I believe that radio is a business

482
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:08,560
that takes time.

483
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:13,520
You really have to start doing something and doing it for a while and being consistent

484
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,080
so that the audience understands what it is.

485
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,360
And then when they turn on your station, they go like, this is what I'm going to get, right?

486
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:24,880
And Jamie differed in that respect in the sense that he always wanted to just try something

487
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:25,360
new.

488
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:26,160
This is not working, we'll try that.

489
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:31,280
And the thing is really is like, which one of us was right or wrong, whatever it is,

490
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:41,280
I really feel that the audience had no chance to get into 91.3 as it was before it was going

491
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,440
to change again into something else.

492
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:52,720
So that station always seems like it's always, you know, it keeps evolving from one thing

493
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:53,360
to another.

494
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:54,560
Yeah, evolving, but not necessarily.

495
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,000
It became 1FM after that.

496
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,080
Yeah, it became that.

497
00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,440
So big brown table, right?

498
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:04,800
I mean, for me, it's like, if you, the irony of the names actually going around until you

499
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,040
get to the point where, hang on, this station is now called what that old station used to

500
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:09,200
be.

501
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,880
I got like something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

502
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:22,160
And then what happened was Petrina was going to have a baby.

503
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:28,320
And so she withdrew from the show and they wanted to partner me up with somebody else.

504
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:28,880
Right.

505
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:33,840
And unfortunately, just me being the person that I was, I just said, nah, I don't think

506
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:40,560
I can do this show with that person because I knew how they work and how their radio minds

507
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:40,880
worked.

508
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,480
And I go like, we're not going to be able to make that happen.

509
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,000
And because they weren't able to find a solution, they got rid of me.

510
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:51,680
So they got rid of you.

511
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:51,920
Yeah.

512
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,560
So you didn't leave on your own.

513
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,880
You know, once they take the pass away, you have to leave.

514
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,240
But you know, I did.

515
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,760
And that was, that's how I departed from 91.3.

516
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:09,760
It was basically, you know, Petrina leaving and then, you know, the rest of that, you

517
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:10,640
know, the rest of that happened.

518
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:11,680
Where do you go from there, man?

519
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:18,320
I actually, I'm a bit confused about my own history as well, because I think what happened

520
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,120
is in the end, I went back to 98 as a part-timer.

521
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:23,200
I still did the morning show.

522
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,240
For me, there's no point doing any other show except the morning show.

523
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,240
So I think I joined them back again and I was with Shereen.

524
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:30,800
Okay.

525
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:31,360
Yeah.

526
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:33,840
The one with Shereen, Shereen and Joe, right?

527
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:34,800
Yeah.

528
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:35,520
Shereen and Joe.

529
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:35,920
Yeah.

530
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:36,160
Yeah.

531
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:37,280
There you go.

532
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:38,880
The Shereen and Joe show.

533
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:39,120
Yeah.

534
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:41,840
So this graphic that you've gone on right now, right?

535
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:42,480
Yeah.

536
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,280
Is actually what happened after we got fired.

537
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,160
Oh, that was just, that was after the firing.

538
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:50,320
So this is us.

539
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:57,520
We had a show that was on and I think the show was quite entertaining.

540
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:02,000
It was a bit, it was lacking in brevity, right?

541
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:02,320
Okay.

542
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,720
So in my mind, quite an entertaining show.

543
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,600
And again, this is where you have to work with bosses, right?

544
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,280
So the boss that I had at the time, Jenny Teo.

545
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:12,400
Oh.

546
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:12,720
Yeah.

547
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:22,160
She also is someone who works very hard and really is, you know, learns stuff.

548
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:22,480
Right?

549
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:22,800
So I would say-

550
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,760
I had Jenny on my show, my previous podcast.

551
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:26,400
Oh, okay.

552
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:26,720
Yeah.

553
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:27,200
Okay.

554
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:27,680
Yeah.

555
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,200
So she canceled that one too, did she?

556
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:29,840
No, she didn't.

557
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,520
She came on and it was very sweet because it was over the suicide of her.

558
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:34,320
Yeah.

559
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,160
I knew I was taking a risk with that particular joke.

560
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,320
Which is why I had to step in quickly.

561
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:40,720
Yeah.

562
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:41,200
No.

563
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:47,600
So anyway, this is at the time, you know, she just was just focusing and clamping down on brevity.

564
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:56,640
And so I'm this humorous, I hope, I try to be funny along the way.

565
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,560
And I try to be relevant as well.

566
00:28:58,560 --> 00:28:59,280
Right?

567
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,920
So I did this thing on the air.

568
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:07,440
Again, if you look at all good shows, there will be a string of ill-advised moments.

569
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:08,160
Okay.

570
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,480
So this is one of the ill-advised moments, right?

571
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,880
I did what you should not do, I think, on a live radio show.

572
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,680
And I did it because I thought it's going to be such a failure.

573
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:19,440
It'd be funny, right?

574
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:19,920
Okay.

575
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:20,400
Yeah.

576
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:26,640
So, but again, if you are not looking at it with the eyes of humor, it's a different story.

577
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,440
So I've tried to perform a magic trick on radio.

578
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:29,920
Okay.

579
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:30,240
Right?

580
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:32,480
It took a bit longer than it should.

581
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:33,680
I think it ended up quite funny.

582
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:38,960
We, like, Shireen and I, we're quite out front about whether something's a failure or not.

583
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:39,520
Right?

584
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,280
It was okay, not too bad, a bit long.

585
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:41,760
That's fine.

586
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:48,320
And then we get a call that says, come see me, you know, in the office.

587
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:49,760
Let's have a meeting next Tuesday.

588
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:50,240
Right?

589
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:50,740
Right.

590
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,760
So what I do with my shows is I like to think about all the stuff that happens around me,

591
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,680
as you've noticed with, you know, what we do as well.

592
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,520
Whatever's happening becomes part of the show.

593
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,880
And so I talk about this meeting that we're going to have, and this is in all the,

594
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,080
the backdrop in Singapore at the time is a lot of firings going on.

595
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:08,580
Okay.

596
00:30:08,580 --> 00:30:08,960
Right?

597
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:09,460
Okay.

598
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,640
And I talk about this message that we've received to come and see them in the office.

599
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,960
And then you're probably going to get fired at that meeting.

600
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,280
And I said, hey, this doesn't look good.

601
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:20,000
Whatever it is.

602
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,080
And Sherine's playing completely what she should do.

603
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,480
She's playing the opposite sides and of course it's not that kind of thing.

604
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:25,200
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

605
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:25,840
Right?

606
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:32,640
And so as the show progresses, the meeting gets postponed to Friday.

607
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:34,080
Okay.

608
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:39,600
So for those of you unfamiliar with the concept, Friday is firing day.

609
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:41,280
Right?

610
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,760
Friday, because that's the best day to get rid of somebody so that they have the least impact on

611
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,760
every, there's a whole weekend for people to disappear and what have you.

612
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:50,240
And all that.

613
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,560
And so, and then, and I'm thinking, okay, you know what?

614
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,800
This is actually a relatable way to joke about it and say, no, I think this is getting serious.

615
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,480
This is, this is going to be about firing us or whatever it is.

616
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:00,980
Right?

617
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:01,680
Yeah.

618
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:09,920
Now, the funny thing is, what began really as not something about firing us

619
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,440
actually became firing us.

620
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,080
As in on Friday, you were called in and we were sat down and we were fired.

621
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:22,480
And the reason we were fired was about, because we were talking about the SMS.

622
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,720
Oh, about the meeting for that meeting.

623
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:27,200
Yeah.

624
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:28,160
Oh gosh.

625
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:35,040
That's what you say when you have to resort to a reason to fire somebody.

626
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:35,360
Right?

627
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,520
So, you know, it's, it's probably a whole string of things.

628
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,960
It's probably about me having strong ideas, probably because it's hard to do,

629
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,000
but they use that as a reason.

630
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:51,520
Yeah, so that became the reason and that's, and that became the first time I ever hired

631
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:52,880
or at least engaged a lawyer.

632
00:31:54,720 --> 00:32:00,880
And again, the funny thing about this is my lawyer who agreed to do the show,

633
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,960
do the, do the show for us, do the, do the, take the case on, take the case on, right?

634
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,720
Did it pro bono because his wife was outraged that that happened.

635
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:15,360
Took the case on and was doing all the work to fight the case for us.

636
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:21,680
Right. And then it was only like, we were well into it and almost settling already

637
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:29,040
that he came to realize the amount of money we weren't being paid in radio.

638
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:35,040
And he was shocked. He was, he was like, this is what we're doing all this for?

639
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:41,280
Because it was, it was an insignificant sum. It really wasn't that huge an amount of money.

640
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,640
And both of us were doing it kind of for, for passion as well.

641
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,160
Cause I like, I like radio. It's just, it's a bad habit. Right.

642
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:54,800
So yeah. And as my lawyer said then, and I think it's true even today,

643
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:59,840
as may have been demonstrated with my recent interactions in the lift nearby,

644
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,880
my lawyer said that I have a problem and it's that I,

645
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,800
I enjoy too much telling people what's wrong.

646
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,720
That pisses a lot of people off.

647
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,880
Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I, and the trouble is I also go a step further

648
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,480
and make it difficult for them to disagree with me.

649
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:28,720
Right. Cause I back it up. It's not just, it's not just, you know, Joe, I think, you know,

650
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:36,160
that is not exclusive to just Joe Augustine, man. I have a funny feeling. He's got to do with us

651
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:41,760
guys. They walk around with that motto called protest revolt, otherwise known as protest and revolt.

652
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,120
You want to blame St. Patrick's school?

653
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:51,760
I'm not blaming the school. I love the school. No, but I'm, I get that too. I mean, I don't,

654
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:59,680
I don't hold back and I do throw my justifications forward, you know, and, and I know quite a lot

655
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,480
people can't stand me for that shit, but frankly, I don't think it's this exclusive to you. I think

656
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:11,680
it's just, if it's, if it's, I don't know, man, maybe it's culture, maybe it's how we were raised

657
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,720
and we all, we both come from the same establishment in terms of our education,

658
00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:23,600
our school. And I don't think we're, I think most of the friends we know somewhat similar.

659
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,920
I don't know any of my friends who would just stand back and keep quiet.

660
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:33,600
I think you're being very kind or maybe you have a...

661
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,640
I face this. I mean, I face the same kind of politics sometimes too, because,

662
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:45,120
because of this, you know, yeah, it's not just you, man. I, I really think so. I think society

663
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:50,880
today just, when it comes to people questioning anyone these days, right? It seems to be more like

664
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:57,680
treated or seen or perceived to be not insolent, that's another word for it, subversive. You know?

665
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,640
Yeah. Like if you, if you want to question something, you are being subversive. Why are

666
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:08,800
you even talking? Why are you even asking to begin with? You know, I mean, I mean, it's so wrong.

667
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:14,480
Yeah. And that's just what things are, how things are like here. And, and it's been like this forever

668
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:25,040
and it's getting worse. I agree with you that it's, it's worse. But for the reasons you mentioned

669
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:30,880
earlier, actually, and the reason is people do believe that there are things that stop them from

670
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:36,080
doing it, right? I mean, it's, it's most of the things that keep you back or hold you back are

671
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:42,640
unreal. I will say that there is, there is truth to it. So when, when you hear me talk, I think

672
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:49,520
many people get the idea that I'm always about, about taking risks, big risks, right? I actually

673
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:56,400
think about it this way. I like to right size risk, right? Look at what you are doing, understand

674
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:03,280
what the real risk is, take whatever steps you can to mitigate the risk and then do the thing

675
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:11,840
once you've got all that in place. So I have done things on the air that has drawn the attention

676
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:22,960
of the prime minister's office, right? And again, this is, this is the way the world, in that part

677
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:28,160
the world works, right? I had been talking about, this is the, back in the days of the, of the, of

678
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:35,440
the pollution index, I think what was it called? PSI. PSI. Yeah. Okay. So PSI was being used as

679
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:41,120
this number and there was an official, you know, description that was on, on the government website,

680
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:45,680
right? The ministry, the environment website, and this is what it said about what it was. It was.

681
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:53,280
Right. And I had, I guess in the mind of this person who made the complaint about me in the office,

682
00:36:55,040 --> 00:37:02,800
I had dared to go off that line and explain why it was. So the phenomenon that was happening was

683
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:09,600
basically this. You would look at the PS, you would look at the PSI, it would say 50, which

684
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,600
sounded okay. And then you look at the air and go like, that looks terrible. That doesn't look

685
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:18,400
like it's 50, right? So it would look like this looks much worse than the number. And every now

686
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,800
and then you would have also a high PSI and the air would look great. And you go like,

687
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,760
what's going on, right? So you questioned that. I didn't question it. I explained it. Okay. Right.

688
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:34,720
And the explanation is, I'll give you the same explanation I gave. Basically the PSI was created

689
00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:41,440
by the U S E P A to describe air quality in such a way that it sounds the best. Right. And they use

690
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:47,680
six different levels of pollutants and the highest of all of those levels becomes your PSI. Okay.

691
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:54,240
Okay. So far so good. Yeah. And I said, if you were to have a glass of water and you drop just

692
00:37:54,240 --> 00:38:00,000
two drops of milk into it, this becomes quite murky. And then, but in terms of pollution is

693
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:06,160
actually very low number, right? And if I had the same glass of water and then I pour in half a glass

694
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:12,000
of kerosene, it's still very clear, but your PSI is high. Right. Nothing wrong with that. It makes

695
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,000
sense. So that's the explanation. That's exactly it. And I had done my research and that's absolutely

696
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:22,720
correct. And I put it on the air and I got an inquiry from the PMO, you know, having to explain

697
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:33,120
to explain myself and understand this really, uh, really pissed me off because the, the very process

698
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:39,920
by which I had learned about it to share about it on the air was available to the damn fool.

699
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:46,880
Yeah. To go and search the internet and say, is this guy saying the thing that's true? Right. Yeah.

700
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:54,640
So I, I, I, that's the problem that we have here. We don't have a culture of actually finding out

701
00:38:54,640 --> 00:39:01,600
for yourself, of, of, of going, oh, so there's one, there's one, there's one published version

702
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:06,000
of this. Let's find out for ourselves as well. Let's expand our knowledge, our expertise

703
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,480
and get better at this information. What happened in the end where this is concerned, man?

704
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,640
Was it all cleared up? It was, it was, it was, it was cleared up, but nobody-

705
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,480
But it was this inconvenience that was had to be thrown in.

706
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,880
The way I felt about that, which I thought again, I, again, I hold it as a, as a bit of a scar,

707
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:27,520
is this like someone points a gun at your head and says, okay, explain yourself. And once you do,

708
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:32,320
they don't even say, hey, sorry for the inconvenience. Yeah. You know, they just

709
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:39,200
re-hosted it. It was just like, it was, it was, that was, uh, unfortunately something that happened.

710
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:48,480
Yeah. But yeah, it, it, it's not about subversion. I actually have a, a great appetite, uh, to try

711
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:55,760
and discover what the truth is. Right. But I do like to be very skeptical as, as I'm doing it as

712
00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:00,800
well. So I'm, I'm the worst friend you can have because you can tell me, you come to me and say,

713
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:06,080
Hey, I just saw this. Right. And I'm going to ask you about all the different things and the, the,

714
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:10,800
this and that I'm going to, I'm a terrible friend in that way, but I'm going to get down to it and

715
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:15,680
maybe give you seven explanations of what you saw. Hey, that's why I'm not talking to you about UFOs.

716
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,880
Get the fuck out of here. Talk to Joe about that shit. No freaking way, man.

717
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:27,040
I dare you to leave this alone. I have two stories of UFOs. Oh, really? But you don't want to hear.

718
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:33,040
Okay. Nevermind. Another show, another show for another time for that. Shine a light, baby.

719
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:40,000
No, no, no, no. No, fuck that. You forest. Oh, okay. Um, let's let me just move down the line.

720
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:45,200
You've inspired me by the way today for what I'm going to write my book to do what on what,

721
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:49,520
because you have talked with me now for, we've been going on for what? Close to two hours now.

722
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:55,120
More than that, man. It's been more than that. Okay. Um, Kai is going to have a headache

723
00:40:55,120 --> 00:41:00,480
and there's so much that hasn't been talked about. Yeah. A lot. I just realized a ton, man. That's

724
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,320
why I just realized that too. If I'm going to keep going on partner by partner, I'm just going to

725
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:14,400
move on down the line. Okay. Sure. I did not have sex with him. I get the impression. Yeah. The

726
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:21,440
best partner you worked with, correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah. Katrina Kao. Uh, yes. Okay. Yeah.

727
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:28,400
How were you? Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Sorry. Sorry. Okay. Um, the best show. Yeah.

728
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:35,760
Uh, was, and still is with Mike Kasem actually. The Mike and Joe experiment. Well, the Mike and

729
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:43,200
Joe experiment is actually, uh, yeah, the, the, the, the show that we, we, we, we, we, we, we,

730
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:49,600
we hobbled together or put together, hobbled together, uh, when Glenn Ong left. Okay. So I

731
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:54,800
was doing the morning show with Glenn on class 95. The morning express of Glenn. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

732
00:41:54,800 --> 00:42:04,640
And that, uh, that part of my life, uh, doing the morning show with Glenn was, was, was the

733
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:12,320
most sellout part of my life. Really? Seriously. What do you mean by sellout? Um, I was, I, I said

734
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:18,640
yes to something that I swore I wouldn't. And what's that? Uh, do a show with Glenn. And what's wrong

735
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:24,960
with Glenn? I didn't have the, I just don't feel for Glenn. You mean the same chemistry? Yeah. As,

736
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:29,040
as a radio person or what we do and all that, the risks we take, what we bring to do,

737
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:35,120
we're very different on our values. Glenn's kind of risky. I've known Glenn all my life. Um,

738
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:41,520
yes and no. I mean, Glenn, Glenn doesn't really take, um,

739
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:48,560
um, I'll, I'll let you listen to the other show. If you've just listened to their shows

740
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:55,600
now and listen to what they say and where they push and what they try to push, I will say that

741
00:42:55,600 --> 00:43:01,680
that speaks for itself. I don't think you need to, I don't need to substantiate, um, that Glenn isn't

742
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:08,720
taking chances. And you know, I, I, I, Glenn is very strategic, very good in that sense in terms

743
00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:13,840
of, in terms of emotional intelligence and, uh, you're talking about corporate, you know, corporate

744
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:19,360
know-how and schmoozing and stuff like that. Glenn is one of the smoothest, um, I've known in that

745
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:27,680
area. Um, yeah, but I, I had, I did not really, you know, uh, jump at the idea of working with

746
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:32,320
Glenn. What I did actually jumped to was the opportunity to be back on the morning show

747
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:40,240
on class 95. And that was, unfortunately it was one of those things that I did because I was,

748
00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:46,800
I was greedy for it. Okay. Yeah. So after Glenn left, you started off the new show with Mike Kasem.

749
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,800
Yeah. So they were going to, they were going to put another show together. And then I was doing

750
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,880
this, this show temporarily. It was, it was actually the show that was temporarily in place

751
00:43:54,880 --> 00:44:01,360
because Glenn was deciding whether he wanted to stay or not. So he was still officially, uh,

752
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:07,840
with, uh, with media core. Uh, but he hadn't pulled the trigger on, on leaving yet. So there's

753
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:12,960
this kind of limbo thing. And so while the limbo was on, uh, Mike and I did the show together.

754
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:18,160
And it just, it was, it was a good show. It had a nice heart to it. And he's just, he, Mike

755
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:23,760
and, and Mike understood comedy. He understands comedy, you know, real, real. And then again,

756
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:31,520
and then again, because you're such a admirer of his, of his late dad, no, he's not, he's not, his dad, um,

757
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:38,000
who didn't have had a part to play. I'm not saying Mike's bad. Don't get me the wrong way. Yeah. Yeah.

758
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:44,720
No, I, I'm, I, I, again, like I said, I'm a bad friend because I'm, I'm well prepared to say nice

759
00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:51,520
and I'm saved to criticize, um, even friends. And I think as my lawyer said, you know, I'm,

760
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,520
I'm too well prepared to do it. And that's what you'll say about me, man. Okay. Nevermind. Well,

761
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:03,360
it doesn't matter if you have a second hour. No. So, so with, with Mike, uh, it was, it was a show

762
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:09,600
where, uh, it was a temporary show and then they wanted to move me away while they brought in,

763
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:18,960
uh, the muttons to do the morning show on class 95. Um, and then for, for, for, for Mike, uh, he

764
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,840
was going to go where he was going. They were going to put me with somebody else again, uh,

765
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:28,000
and moving me to another station. Um, and I, and I told the, the, the person in charge then that,

766
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,640
no, keep, keep me with Mike. Cause there's a, there's a, there's something going on here. There's a,

767
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:39,760
there is a good show here. The show has heart. Um, and so we did and it went on and, and, and

768
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:45,760
really some of the, some of the funniest things that have ever happened on radio, truly funny

769
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,840
things, not, not things where I say something that's supposed to be funny and my partner goes,

770
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:57,600
uh, without mentioning names. Uh, you already did earlier on. Nevermind.

771
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:05,840
Kai, you must hide this from the audience. No, I mean, so, so truly funny stuff, uh, was happening

772
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:16,000
on that show. So, so yes, the best radio show, uh, was with Mike, uh, the most enjoyable show. Uh,

773
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:21,200
I would say because of the, because of the true friendship that we have, uh, is with Patrina Kao.

774
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:30,400
And I will, I will, I will stop there and leave you to work out what was the worst show that I ever

775
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,480
did. Cause I haven't mentioned it. How am I going to ever leave that one out now that you've brought

776
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:39,040
it up? Because I haven't mentioned it. Because you haven't mentioned it. Yeah, I haven't, I have not

777
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:45,440
mentioned it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So there I ask. You can ask, but I won't say, cause I've told you,

778
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:54,720
I won't say cause I'm masterful at this. One more last question because we've been talking forever.

779
00:46:54,720 --> 00:47:03,440
Yeah. Um, if you had the opportunity to go back on air again, would you? No. Really? Yeah. Any

780
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:08,880
station come to you? Say Joe, come back. Would you do it? Okay. Uh, my terms and conditions would make

781
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:17,600
it in, um, unlikely that they would do it. Okay. First of all, um, okay. I will, I will take back

782
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:24,000
the no, uh, and put a giant asterisk on it. Right. So the giant asterisk actually comes with a number

783
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:31,040
of things. One is money. Two is the plan. Right. Cause someone has to come to me with a plan

784
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:35,200
that is more than just saying, I'm going to put you on and that's going to be the answer. Right.

785
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:41,920
So like you were talking to, uh, Cyril about MCing and being, you know, you, you get hired as

786
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:48,320
the show and I go like, no, I'm not going to do that. I would never take on that, that role

787
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:53,120
because I would need a plan. I would need a plan and I would need a plan that includes things like,

788
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:57,760
oh, we're not going to do traffic. We're not going to do news. We're going to figure different ways

789
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:02,480
of doing this so that it's going to be a great radio show. And it will never do that. Yeah. Well,

790
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:09,040
the thing is you can say never, but then again, if you think about the big thing that we're looking

791
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:18,720
at right now is okay, uh, it's a Herculean task to try to raise radio to a level where it is

792
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:26,720
something that is relevant. Yeah. Important, significant. I mean, I haven't listened to radio

793
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:36,080
intentionally for the longest time. No way. Really? Yeah. Because I literally have better things to do

794
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:42,880
with my life because every single moment I have this and this gives me anything I want in the world.

795
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:48,880
There are more than a million podcasts. Even on a drive in the car, you don't turn on a radio.

796
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:55,360
It's a waste of time for me to put on radio because it'll irritate me. It'll irritate me.

797
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:59,840
It'll irritate me because somebody will say something. Okay. Let me, let me, let me, let me

798
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:04,160
give you a solid example of what's being done. Right? So good old days of radio, this would be

799
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:09,840
fine. Right. But, uh, the way, the way this, uh, the way this is done nowadays is I hear this, uh,

800
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:14,000
a younger DJ will come up and do something, but she's been told probably by an older DJ to do,

801
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:21,840
right? There's, um, um, you won't believe the newest product that, uh, Molly Ringwald has

802
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:26,400
introduced. I'll tell you all about that in 15 minutes. Right. Which is not all radio is like,

803
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:31,360
fine, because I'm going to interest you in something and you have no way, there's a hook

804
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:35,360
to come back for 15 minutes. You have no way of knowing how to get hold of that information

805
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:40,400
because I've hidden it from you. Yeah. But now I just need to go fucking Google it. Because,

806
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:47,920
because there's no art in the cell. So they don't understand, they don't know how to do the magic.

807
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:53,200
Right. And they're still out there doing the old magic tricks. So you, you're, you're basically

808
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:58,480
someone now on radio doing all those things is the same as someone coming onto your stage while

809
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:05,200
you're in MC angle, like ladies and gentlemen, this is a hat. It's empty and I'm going to reach

810
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:10,480
into the hat and you will not believe what is going to come out of that. Oh, it's a rabbit.

811
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:19,120
Oh, it's a rabbit. But your, your audience is so far ahead of you. They don't stick around for that.

812
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:24,480
It's insulting to them. Yeah. You know, so that's, that's the, that's the thing. It's so radio,

813
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:34,320
radio, as it is today, I'm going to say, I'm going to call it as dead because objectively at any

814
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:41,680
moment in time, maybe with a few exceptions of a few moments and a few shows, it isn't

815
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:48,160
worth the trouble. It isn't worth the time. And when, when, when that is it. So, so for me,

816
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:55,280
what really told me that radio had really screwed up, right. Was that when I met this old guy,

817
00:50:55,280 --> 00:51:02,240
yeah. And he says, um, oh, you know, I used to listen to your, to your, to your radio stations

818
00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:08,480
and all that. And they go like, Oh, uh, what happened? I said, no, I just can, I'm in Spotify

819
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:15,520
now. Yeah. So radio of all the failures that I think the radio should be ashamed of in Singapore

820
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:23,840
is 90.5 losing its older audience. Yeah. If there's one audience you can hang on to the aunties,

821
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:30,320
uncles, and whatever it is easily. It's that audience. You play the right music.

822
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:37,840
You get some stuff. I mean, look, this is absolutely true by the way. You can't hear the Beatles on

823
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:45,760
Singapore radio. You can. They were playing it for two weeks, uh, two weeks ago. Now they've got

824
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:52,160
this, you know, they got which station is this media core. I think it was gold. There was a

825
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:57,680
week, sorry, not two weeks. There was a week they were playing. They now dedicate a week to artists.

826
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:02,480
So they did one for the Beatles and they were playing Beatles every day. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So

827
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:06,720
they did, they did. I understand corrected then. Yeah. So I was listening to that the whole week.

828
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:10,240
A few weeks ago, right? Yeah. Okay. So I'll re-say again. There's no,

829
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:18,560
this is the point I'm saying like, if, if, if you were to talk about the most significant music

830
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:22,640
ever and you're old and you're serving an older audience, if you understood you're serving an

831
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:27,440
older audience, you know, you would play the music of their life, right? Not all the time,

832
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:33,120
but I would hear some Sinatra. I would have to hear the Beatles. I would have to hear the Bee Gees.

833
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,560
And you know what? It's been happening, man. It's been happening. I've got to tell you,

834
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:40,560
last couple of months, I've been, that's what I've been hearing. Okay. Well, I'm including Sinatra.

835
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:46,880
I think I'm going to have to buy a radio now, but you get, you get what I'm saying that when,

836
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:53,440
when you come to the point where you notice that, Hey, they're playing the Beatles. Something's

837
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:59,120
gone wrong already. Right? Something's gone wrong. Something's gone wrong because, because how do you

838
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:03,840
notice that they weren't playing the Beatles? How do you notice that they weren't playing the Bee

839
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:08,320
Gees? How do you notice it's like, you go like, Hey, you know what? This is just where I'm at

840
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,520
today. Please know what they're serving at McDonald's now food.

841
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:16,800
For a while. Yeah. But the food is back, man. The food is good. It's good. And I go like,

842
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:24,240
and I go like, the damage has been done because I am not going to waste my time. I'm not,

843
00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:30,000
if I like the Beatles, I've got a Beatles playlist, Jimi Hendrix, you're not going to hear that on

844
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:36,320
radio anyway. I create a playlist or download the playlist. So radio, radio has changed.

845
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:41,600
Fundamentally in terms of what it, what it does, the fundamental need is still the same, but it's

846
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:48,240
not being served. I think by most of the media in Singapore, maybe because of the incentives that

847
00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:54,960
are not in place, people are not being entertained. It's not about entertainment. It's about the

848
00:53:54,960 --> 00:54:02,240
filling of time now. And I think it's a shame. It's, oh, well, you know, I still, I still, I still

849
00:54:02,240 --> 00:54:10,480
listen to radio. Maybe it's nostalgia for me, you know, and it's maybe it's because it's an

850
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:15,760
unrequited thing that I've, you know, I wanted to be on radio. Never did go. Oh, I'm so sorry to,

851
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:21,600
to drag your girlfriend through the mud like that. It's not my girlfriend either because I,

852
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:26,320
like I said, you know, I'm not here to disagree with you deliberately. I mean,

853
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:33,920
at the end of the day, there are, if you've, if you really look at my socials, I have this thing,

854
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:38,640
I always write. So sometimes I've stopped for a while because that particular person is no longer

855
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:47,120
on air. And I have this thing called Chris's Mike says one, two, three. Okay. And, and this guy is

856
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:55,360
a particular news reader. And my goodness, the mispronunciation. Wait, Chris, I got to check.

857
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:59,200
Yeah. Did he die as well? Cause if the item is a death, this becomes unfunny, you know.

858
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:04,080
No, he did not. No. Okay. All right. All right. But I think it's still working that I think so,

859
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:08,400
but he's not in there anymore. Okay. And you know, he used to drive me up the freaking

860
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:15,280
proverbial wall because he, he's so, he's so, he's so, he's so, he's so, he's so, he's so, he's so,

861
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:22,240
He just drove me up the wall because he, he's so off and putting on pulling on an accent that's

862
00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:28,720
just completely off, you know, and, and I couldn't stand it. So I came up with this thing. So he's

863
00:55:28,720 --> 00:55:33,200
not as if, you know, radio's my girlfriend is, it's just the very fact that look, you know, it,

864
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:41,040
but you feel, you, you feel that radio one back in his early days was like boring.

865
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:44,600
the sponsored shows, people who came on.

866
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,940
Guys like Victor Kuhl, Roger Kuhl even, you know?

867
00:55:46,940 --> 00:55:50,640
And the late Bernard Silosa, you know?

868
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,400
And the Listing Go On, Uncle Brian, of course, right?

869
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:54,920
So these guys were great.

870
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:57,840
As radio DJs, they were great.

871
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:00,880
They really carried the show, their respective shows.

872
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,880
These are the people I listened to and I grew up with, right?

873
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:09,080
And I wouldn't say it was completely bad.

874
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:13,320
It's just that it's a nostalgic thing for me, you know?

875
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:14,600
I've always listened to radio.

876
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:16,520
I still do listen to radio.

877
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:21,040
And sometimes I really feel that, yeah, you know,

878
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:22,800
more could be done.

879
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:26,080
Maybe it could be more entertaining

880
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:29,880
so that it can remain relevant, significant.

881
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:30,720
Yeah?

882
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:33,000
Yeah, I agree, I do.

883
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,960
And I also sympathize or emphasize the guys

884
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:37,900
who are sitting behind the mic.

885
00:56:37,900 --> 00:56:42,900
You know, I think maybe they're kind of handcuffed, really.

886
00:56:45,060 --> 00:56:47,140
You know, things that they could say,

887
00:56:47,140 --> 00:56:50,740
things they can do, could do, and too afraid to do it

888
00:56:50,740 --> 00:56:53,100
because they don't want to get into shits, you know?

889
00:56:53,100 --> 00:56:54,660
Into the shits.

890
00:56:54,660 --> 00:56:56,020
I mean, yeah, I mean, come on.

891
00:56:56,020 --> 00:56:57,980
Not everyone's gonna be like you, man.

892
00:56:57,980 --> 00:56:58,800
Let's go for it.

893
00:56:58,800 --> 00:56:59,980
I don't give a flying fuck what's gonna happen to me.

894
00:56:59,980 --> 00:57:01,500
I can get fired from every damn station.

895
00:57:01,500 --> 00:57:02,900
You know what I mean?

896
00:57:02,900 --> 00:57:05,020
Some people just don't have that, man.

897
00:57:05,020 --> 00:57:07,180
I mean, each to their own.

898
00:57:07,180 --> 00:57:09,780
But of course, the larger institution,

899
00:57:09,780 --> 00:57:13,540
which is radio as an institution, just doesn't grow.

900
00:57:15,180 --> 00:57:16,020
Yeah.

901
00:57:16,020 --> 00:57:17,420
Yeah, sadly.

902
00:57:17,420 --> 00:57:18,420
Sadly, you know?

903
00:57:18,420 --> 00:57:22,300
I mean, I think more can be done.

904
00:57:22,300 --> 00:57:24,100
Yeah, more could be done.

905
00:57:24,100 --> 00:57:27,940
As a listener, as a consumer, I want more.

906
00:57:27,940 --> 00:57:28,780
Yeah.

907
00:57:28,780 --> 00:57:30,420
See, what you described just now

908
00:57:30,420 --> 00:57:33,260
about all the circumstances and we have to be,

909
00:57:33,260 --> 00:57:35,340
you know, we think about people and their circumstance,

910
00:57:35,340 --> 00:57:36,180
what have you, right?

911
00:57:36,180 --> 00:57:37,020
Yeah.

912
00:57:37,020 --> 00:57:42,020
All perfectly legitimate reasons to give people a chance

913
00:57:42,380 --> 00:57:44,300
if they're in the volunteer service.

914
00:57:46,380 --> 00:57:47,380
That's it, seriously.

915
00:57:47,380 --> 00:57:49,940
If what you say at the end of it all,

916
00:57:49,940 --> 00:57:54,220
during the Christmas party, right?

917
00:57:54,220 --> 00:57:55,700
You go around, people say, what do you do?

918
00:57:55,700 --> 00:57:56,540
Oh, Joe.

919
00:57:56,540 --> 00:57:57,380
Yeah, I...

920
00:57:57,380 --> 00:57:58,460
No, Joe, it's just...

921
00:57:58,460 --> 00:58:00,740
I'm a part-timer on the local radio station.

922
00:58:00,740 --> 00:58:01,580
I don't know, man.

923
00:58:01,580 --> 00:58:02,420
They don't pay me money for it.

924
00:58:02,420 --> 00:58:06,940
Maybe I've gone a little soft as I'm aging.

925
00:58:06,940 --> 00:58:11,940
But I do tend to try to put myself in their shoes

926
00:58:12,900 --> 00:58:16,780
and say, you know, it's not gonna be easy for people.

927
00:58:16,780 --> 00:58:17,620
You know?

928
00:58:17,620 --> 00:58:21,540
No, I like to be in this business

929
00:58:21,540 --> 00:58:26,100
where I help people see what is real in front of them

930
00:58:26,100 --> 00:58:27,580
rather than the illusion

931
00:58:27,580 --> 00:58:29,820
that they've created for themselves, right?

932
00:58:29,820 --> 00:58:33,580
So a lot of people live in an illusion.

933
00:58:33,580 --> 00:58:37,020
They believe that this is the case.

934
00:58:37,020 --> 00:58:40,620
Without a choice, ah, without a choice, you know?

935
00:58:40,620 --> 00:58:41,460
No, that's the thing.

936
00:58:41,460 --> 00:58:43,180
That's exactly where I'm getting it.

937
00:58:43,180 --> 00:58:45,020
There is a choice.

938
00:58:45,020 --> 00:58:46,300
You're just not willing to make it.

939
00:58:46,300 --> 00:58:47,700
So someone has to say...

940
00:58:47,700 --> 00:58:48,540
They live in an illusion

941
00:58:48,540 --> 00:58:50,340
because they don't have much of a choice.

942
00:58:50,340 --> 00:58:51,780
Yeah, so this is the thing.

943
00:58:51,780 --> 00:58:56,300
If they can say at the end of the day, okay,

944
00:58:56,300 --> 00:58:59,660
I did the best radio show I could,

945
00:58:59,660 --> 00:59:00,500
Yeah.

946
00:59:01,380 --> 00:59:02,660
Good.

947
00:59:02,660 --> 00:59:06,660
But what I think has to be said most times,

948
00:59:06,660 --> 00:59:09,940
I did the best radio show I could

949
00:59:09,940 --> 00:59:11,620
given the circumstances and the rules

950
00:59:11,620 --> 00:59:12,860
and the kind of oversight that I have,

951
00:59:12,860 --> 00:59:13,700
the kind of boss I have

952
00:59:13,700 --> 00:59:14,780
and the things that I'm worried about,

953
00:59:14,780 --> 00:59:16,420
my loans and the kind of things.

954
00:59:16,420 --> 00:59:17,380
I haven't made enough plans.

955
00:59:17,380 --> 00:59:18,900
My own financial plans are not in place

956
00:59:18,900 --> 00:59:20,220
so that I can't have the security to do things

957
00:59:20,220 --> 00:59:22,660
and be free to do the various things I wanna do.

958
00:59:24,420 --> 00:59:25,500
There's a difference.

959
00:59:26,340 --> 00:59:29,860
You can't hold the rest of us hostage

960
00:59:29,860 --> 00:59:31,980
because you didn't plan for it, right?

961
00:59:31,980 --> 00:59:34,820
You know the captain of the Titanic, right?

962
00:59:35,660 --> 00:59:37,940
In that moment when it's happening,

963
00:59:38,900 --> 00:59:40,660
he can't just say,

964
00:59:42,140 --> 00:59:43,460
I did the best I could.

965
00:59:44,500 --> 00:59:45,340
Yep.

966
00:59:45,340 --> 00:59:46,580
You know?

967
00:59:46,580 --> 00:59:48,420
Yeah, the whole, it's unfortunate,

968
00:59:48,420 --> 00:59:49,780
but that's the way ice works.

969
00:59:51,780 --> 00:59:55,660
So I tend to be a little less forgiving.

970
00:59:55,660 --> 00:59:58,260
I'm equally unforgiving of myself.

971
00:59:58,260 --> 01:00:01,180
Like I said, if I were to live my life differently

972
01:00:01,180 --> 01:00:02,260
and make different choices,

973
01:00:02,260 --> 01:00:04,540
I would be in a different place.

974
01:00:04,540 --> 01:00:08,100
I might still even be on Class 95,

975
01:00:08,100 --> 01:00:09,780
doing the morning show

976
01:00:09,780 --> 01:00:11,940
and who knows how much I would hate myself.

977
01:00:13,660 --> 01:00:15,980
I might have made those different choices.

978
01:00:15,980 --> 01:00:16,820
Who knows?

979
01:00:17,780 --> 01:00:22,780
I do have empathy and sympathy for the people there,

980
01:00:22,780 --> 01:00:27,780
but I don't like to leave people

981
01:00:27,860 --> 01:00:30,620
with a false sense of where they are.

982
01:00:30,620 --> 01:00:34,420
You know, like if somebody has a choice,

983
01:00:34,420 --> 01:00:36,500
they should know they have a choice

984
01:00:36,500 --> 01:00:39,500
rather than believe they have no choice

985
01:00:39,500 --> 01:00:40,980
and become enslaved.

986
01:00:40,980 --> 01:00:41,820
Right.

987
01:00:41,820 --> 01:00:42,660
So that's how it happens.

988
01:00:42,660 --> 01:00:43,900
You know, like when,

989
01:00:45,900 --> 01:00:49,620
in some repressed societies,

990
01:00:49,620 --> 01:00:54,620
you know, when a slave tries to escape,

991
01:00:54,620 --> 01:00:57,220
it's not the people who are in charge of them

992
01:00:57,220 --> 01:00:58,900
that stop them from escaping.

993
01:00:58,900 --> 01:01:00,460
It's the other slaves.

994
01:01:00,460 --> 01:01:02,660
Because they don't want to get slaughtered

995
01:01:02,660 --> 01:01:04,020
because of this guy.

996
01:01:04,020 --> 01:01:05,660
Whatever, because they think they're doing-

997
01:01:05,660 --> 01:01:06,820
There's gonna be repercussions.

998
01:01:06,820 --> 01:01:09,660
Well, even if there are no repercussions,

999
01:01:09,660 --> 01:01:13,500
the kindest friend amongst you will think,

1000
01:01:13,500 --> 01:01:16,260
you know what, this is what you should be doing,

1001
01:01:16,260 --> 01:01:17,900
but you're not gonna be able to do it.

1002
01:01:17,900 --> 01:01:19,780
This is what you should be doing

1003
01:01:19,780 --> 01:01:22,220
because this is the best for you.

1004
01:01:22,220 --> 01:01:24,660
And that's the kind of behavior,

1005
01:01:24,660 --> 01:01:27,260
but you don't step out once in a while to say,

1006
01:01:27,260 --> 01:01:28,700
okay, what's going on?

1007
01:01:28,700 --> 01:01:31,300
Do I understand what's happening?

1008
01:01:31,300 --> 01:01:33,300
And then you go back to the point where you go like,

1009
01:01:33,300 --> 01:01:35,700
and now I'm qualified to give some advice.

1010
01:01:36,900 --> 01:01:40,020
Too many people with not enough experience

1011
01:01:40,020 --> 01:01:42,140
are giving advice.

1012
01:01:42,140 --> 01:01:42,980
Yeah.

1013
01:01:42,980 --> 01:01:43,820
Yeah.

1014
01:01:44,700 --> 01:01:47,820
Again, that one's not just limited and exclusive to radio.

1015
01:01:47,820 --> 01:01:49,140
It's across the board.

1016
01:01:49,140 --> 01:01:49,980
Yes.

1017
01:01:49,980 --> 01:01:53,380
It's why I should be on China Lite, come on.

1018
01:01:53,380 --> 01:01:54,940
Hey, come on.

1019
01:01:54,940 --> 01:01:56,900
I'm bringing it on for the UFO thing.

1020
01:01:56,900 --> 01:01:58,740
I only got two stories for UFO story.

1021
01:01:58,740 --> 01:02:00,580
I can't match the-

1022
01:02:00,580 --> 01:02:02,100
I was looking out the window and then I saw-

1023
01:02:02,100 --> 01:02:03,420
I just saw one there.

1024
01:02:03,420 --> 01:02:05,060
I'll put Bong here as well.

1025
01:02:05,060 --> 01:02:05,900
Yeah.

1026
01:02:05,900 --> 01:02:07,300
Yeah.

1027
01:02:07,300 --> 01:02:10,140
Okay, we've been talking for about two and a half hours.

1028
01:02:10,140 --> 01:02:11,220
We're really gonna have a headache.

1029
01:02:11,220 --> 01:02:12,780
What am I gonna do with two and a half hours?

1030
01:02:12,780 --> 01:02:14,700
Because people nowadays,

1031
01:02:14,700 --> 01:02:17,420
they're suffering from a lot of attention deficit disorders.

1032
01:02:17,420 --> 01:02:20,180
They don't like to sit down for longer than half an hour.

1033
01:02:20,180 --> 01:02:22,140
I think if you put out a five hour podcast,

1034
01:02:22,140 --> 01:02:24,380
people would go like, what the hell is this?

1035
01:02:24,380 --> 01:02:25,220
Yeah.

1036
01:02:25,220 --> 01:02:27,100
And then if you do the chapters correctly,

1037
01:02:27,100 --> 01:02:29,980
I'm speaking directly now to Kai, by the way.

1038
01:02:29,980 --> 01:02:32,820
If you put in all the chapters in such a way

1039
01:02:32,820 --> 01:02:36,540
that people have to figure out what it means, right?

1040
01:02:36,540 --> 01:02:38,740
Kai is getting a free education here.

1041
01:02:38,740 --> 01:02:40,900
People are gonna be curious about this.

1042
01:02:40,900 --> 01:02:43,580
People will be curious about that along the way.

1043
01:02:43,580 --> 01:02:47,060
People wonder why it is people can listen to long form stuff.

1044
01:02:47,060 --> 01:02:50,860
It's because along the way, people are being interesting.

1045
01:02:50,860 --> 01:02:53,820
And I really hope that I've been interesting.

1046
01:02:53,820 --> 01:02:54,780
Oh, interesting, yeah.

1047
01:02:54,780 --> 01:02:57,540
I mean, I'm finally listening to all these

1048
01:02:57,540 --> 01:02:58,540
from your perspective.

1049
01:02:58,540 --> 01:03:02,340
I know that we're gonna have a lot of mutual friends

1050
01:03:02,340 --> 01:03:04,180
who are probably gonna, you know.

1051
01:03:04,180 --> 01:03:07,500
But then again, it's what you've been through.

1052
01:03:07,500 --> 01:03:10,140
This is a story coming out from you, you know.

1053
01:03:10,140 --> 01:03:12,060
And each to his own, man.

1054
01:03:12,060 --> 01:03:14,260
I just wanna listen to what your perspective,

1055
01:03:14,260 --> 01:03:15,820
from your perspective.

1056
01:03:15,820 --> 01:03:18,180
Instead of just, you know, hearsay

1057
01:03:18,180 --> 01:03:20,780
or just reading about it elsewhere, you know.

1058
01:03:20,780 --> 01:03:23,460
And Joe, or Joe Augustine's in the studio, I find out.

1059
01:03:23,460 --> 01:03:24,300
That's about it.

1060
01:03:24,300 --> 01:03:25,140
Yeah.

1061
01:03:25,140 --> 01:03:25,980
And it's been interesting, man.

1062
01:03:25,980 --> 01:03:27,060
Appreciate it, really.

1063
01:03:27,060 --> 01:03:27,900
No, it's been fun.

1064
01:03:27,900 --> 01:03:28,740
Thank you very much for this.

1065
01:03:28,740 --> 01:03:29,780
For whatever it is, man.

1066
01:03:29,780 --> 01:03:31,420
You're still on this tribute show.

1067
01:03:31,420 --> 01:03:33,100
And it's still our tribute to you.

1068
01:03:33,100 --> 01:03:33,940
Okay, okay.

1069
01:03:33,940 --> 01:03:34,780
Yeah, really.

1070
01:03:34,780 --> 01:03:35,620
Thank you so much, man.

1071
01:03:35,620 --> 01:03:39,140
Without you, Traffic Watch wouldn't be what it is, too.

1072
01:03:39,140 --> 01:03:41,940
I can't see how this belongs on the music show.

1073
01:03:41,940 --> 01:03:43,300
Although, why not?

1074
01:03:43,300 --> 01:03:44,140
Why not?

1075
01:03:44,140 --> 01:03:45,420
Because look, man, come on.

1076
01:03:45,420 --> 01:03:48,860
Music and radio is still something here, you know.

1077
01:03:48,860 --> 01:03:50,220
I mean, in the end.

1078
01:03:50,220 --> 01:03:53,740
Even if it was in the 90s or the 2000s,

1079
01:03:53,740 --> 01:03:56,020
people were still listening to radio.

1080
01:03:56,020 --> 01:03:58,940
And people remember who you are.

1081
01:03:58,940 --> 01:04:00,700
So I have you on the show.

1082
01:04:00,700 --> 01:04:02,140
This is a tribute to you.

1083
01:04:02,140 --> 01:04:06,860
I love your effort to give me a nice, comfortable platform

1084
01:04:06,860 --> 01:04:09,100
of which to dive and say goodbye.

1085
01:04:09,100 --> 01:04:11,620
What the f?

1086
01:04:11,620 --> 01:04:16,620
But I really wanna encourage you to really bite down hard

1087
01:04:16,740 --> 01:04:21,100
on this because you have a platform.

1088
01:04:21,100 --> 01:04:24,180
Now you have some 4,500, as we speak,

1089
01:04:24,180 --> 01:04:25,020
I think people who-

1090
01:04:25,020 --> 01:04:25,860
More than that.

1091
01:04:25,860 --> 01:04:26,700
Oh, okay.

1092
01:04:26,700 --> 01:04:27,540
It's more than that.

1093
01:04:27,540 --> 01:04:29,020
You have that, right?

1094
01:04:29,020 --> 01:04:30,900
And if you're thinking about where this is gonna go

1095
01:04:30,900 --> 01:04:33,420
to the next level or the highest level,

1096
01:04:33,420 --> 01:04:35,860
it's only when they get into it and go like,

1097
01:04:35,860 --> 01:04:40,180
you know what, this is the stuff which I can't get, right?

1098
01:04:40,180 --> 01:04:42,900
And I do worry that you're trying to be too nice a guy

1099
01:04:42,900 --> 01:04:46,140
because you really, like just now right now, right?

1100
01:04:46,140 --> 01:04:48,140
When you were late,

1101
01:04:48,140 --> 01:04:51,620
you were making the bed for the next guest already.

1102
01:04:51,620 --> 01:04:52,580
As you were telling me about,

1103
01:04:52,580 --> 01:04:55,340
oh, these people have this and that.

1104
01:04:55,340 --> 01:04:58,260
And it's really good and it's really professional.

1105
01:04:59,740 --> 01:05:01,860
And it's really boring.

1106
01:05:03,580 --> 01:05:07,540
Because you know, as I'm talking about this,

1107
01:05:07,540 --> 01:05:11,420
that you want to just say hallelujah, yes.

1108
01:05:11,420 --> 01:05:15,380
But you know that you have to balance this and that.

1109
01:05:15,380 --> 01:05:16,220
And I've been there.

1110
01:05:16,220 --> 01:05:17,340
I'm not balancing.

1111
01:05:17,340 --> 01:05:18,180
Oh, okay.

1112
01:05:18,180 --> 01:05:19,740
I'm not balancing because I really want,

1113
01:05:19,740 --> 01:05:22,340
the idea is to have my guests to talk.

1114
01:05:22,340 --> 01:05:23,620
You've been talking.

1115
01:05:23,620 --> 01:05:25,460
So I let you talk.

1116
01:05:25,460 --> 01:05:28,180
And then as much as you've been,

1117
01:05:28,180 --> 01:05:30,180
and you're the one coming out of all,

1118
01:05:30,180 --> 01:05:31,580
everything you've just said

1119
01:05:31,580 --> 01:05:34,500
for the past two and a half hours, right?

1120
01:05:34,500 --> 01:05:35,340
Great.

1121
01:05:35,340 --> 01:05:36,500
These are the things I want to have.

1122
01:05:36,500 --> 01:05:38,420
These are the things I want to hear.

1123
01:05:38,420 --> 01:05:39,260
Yeah.

1124
01:05:39,260 --> 01:05:41,380
So what else is there for me to do?

1125
01:05:41,380 --> 01:05:42,220
You sound like-

1126
01:05:42,220 --> 01:05:43,980
I'm not here to choke you at.

1127
01:05:43,980 --> 01:05:44,820
No, you're not.

1128
01:05:44,820 --> 01:05:45,660
And-

1129
01:05:45,660 --> 01:05:48,540
My role, my role, Joe, has always been this.

1130
01:05:48,540 --> 01:05:50,940
I get my guests comfortable.

1131
01:05:50,940 --> 01:05:51,780
Yeah.

1132
01:05:51,780 --> 01:05:52,620
And they talk.

1133
01:05:52,620 --> 01:05:53,460
Right.

1134
01:05:53,460 --> 01:05:55,340
And they talk about things that some,

1135
01:05:55,340 --> 01:05:58,100
many have said they don't say on other platforms.

1136
01:05:58,100 --> 01:05:58,940
Oh, cool.

1137
01:05:58,940 --> 01:05:59,780
Yeah.

1138
01:05:59,780 --> 01:06:01,020
So you know, I don't,

1139
01:06:01,020 --> 01:06:05,300
I don't need to be hard in order for me to get answers.

1140
01:06:05,300 --> 01:06:07,780
You went on because you're just Joe and Joe goes on

1141
01:06:07,780 --> 01:06:10,020
and we know Joe goes on and Joe will go on.

1142
01:06:10,020 --> 01:06:10,860
And I let you go.

1143
01:06:10,860 --> 01:06:11,700
Yeah.

1144
01:06:11,700 --> 01:06:12,540
Well, I'll tell you what,

1145
01:06:12,540 --> 01:06:13,420
it's a real pitibi, we're recording, right?

1146
01:06:13,420 --> 01:06:14,260
I mean, so-

1147
01:06:14,260 --> 01:06:19,260
I appreciate the feedback though.

1148
01:06:19,780 --> 01:06:22,300
The hardness was full like 15 minutes ago,

1149
01:06:22,300 --> 01:06:23,580
but Kai had no hard to tell you.

1150
01:06:23,580 --> 01:06:24,420
It's like, you know-

1151
01:06:24,420 --> 01:06:25,260
Kai's probably going,

1152
01:06:25,260 --> 01:06:26,420
fuck, what are we going to do with this shit now?

1153
01:06:26,420 --> 01:06:28,700
It's going to be, it's like almost three hours of footage.

1154
01:06:28,700 --> 01:06:29,540
Yeah.

1155
01:06:29,540 --> 01:06:30,940
Yeah, I know.

1156
01:06:30,940 --> 01:06:31,780
Anyway, I don't know.

1157
01:06:31,780 --> 01:06:34,300
I think people can handle it.

1158
01:06:34,300 --> 01:06:36,180
Well, yeah, I mean, I'll figure it out somehow.

1159
01:06:36,180 --> 01:06:37,380
Kai's falling asleep, but-

1160
01:06:37,380 --> 01:06:41,020
Anyway, Joe, thanks very much, man.

1161
01:06:41,020 --> 01:06:42,340
Have a great year ahead, man.

1162
01:06:42,340 --> 01:06:43,180
Have a great year.

1163
01:06:43,180 --> 01:06:44,500
Thank you for your time here.

1164
01:06:44,500 --> 01:06:47,540
You've been watching the Chris Hansen conversation.

1165
01:06:47,540 --> 01:06:49,860
I've had Joe Augustine here with me.

1166
01:06:49,860 --> 01:06:52,060
It has been a long, long conversation.

1167
01:06:52,060 --> 01:06:54,140
Season three seemed to be one of those.

1168
01:06:54,140 --> 01:06:57,020
Now, Gherman was with me for almost this long as well.

1169
01:06:57,020 --> 01:06:57,860
Really?

1170
01:06:57,860 --> 01:06:58,700
Oh yeah.

1171
01:06:58,700 --> 01:07:00,020
I feel that's a challenge to go on some more.

1172
01:07:00,020 --> 01:07:00,860
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy.

1173
01:07:00,860 --> 01:07:02,180
Did I tell you about the UFO?

1174
01:07:02,180 --> 01:07:04,860
Yeah, I knew, yeah.

1175
01:07:04,860 --> 01:07:09,660
And well, if you want to pause and play again,

1176
01:07:09,660 --> 01:07:12,020
play back later, go ahead, yeah?

1177
01:07:12,020 --> 01:07:16,620
Whatever it is, it's been a nice conversation in your face,

1178
01:07:16,620 --> 01:07:18,140
but listen to it anyway.

1179
01:07:18,140 --> 01:07:19,460
I'll see you for the next one.

1180
01:07:19,460 --> 01:07:21,300
Until next time, take care everyone.

1181
01:07:21,300 --> 01:07:22,140
Bye bye.

1182
01:07:23,260 --> 01:07:24,100
Mm.

1183
01:07:24,100 --> 01:07:45,940
Mm.