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There have been some documentaries on the life of the man, Mr Lee Kuan Yew.

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Why didn't you guys think of doing one for him instead of for Dr Goh Keng Swee?

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Because he's overdone.

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Oh, there's so many books on him.

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Yeah, there's so many books on him, so it's like trying to fry a leftover egg that's been fried many other times before.

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Wait!

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Ooh!

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It's been 12, or wrong, 11 episodes.

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Today is the 12th episode and the final, the finale episode for the Chris Hansen Conversation Season 2.

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And it's going to be a blast, I can tell you that much, man.

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You're not looking at my guests at this moment, and I will not show them yet.

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I will tell you what it's all about today in a few minutes.

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But before we proceed with the finale episode for the season, I have to do this.

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Because in my hand, I've got, as usual, from dear old Vijay and the good people from Gordon's Vadas,

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I got with me probably the fluffiest, crispiest prawn vadas in the damn land.

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And you can see on screen, you can contact Gordon's Vadas.

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You can WhatsApp at 877-0969.

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Look for a guy named Vijay. He was formerly Mr. Singapore Manhattan, Manhattan, Singapore, 1970.

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He's going to kill me for this shit.

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But really, seriously, these are the best vadas you can find in the land, man.

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Thank you again, Vijay. Thank you, Gordon's Vadas.

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And back to the program.

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I have with me two prolific gentlemen.

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These are people that, you know, I always get so afraid to bring really, really bright, talented intellectuals into my studio, because I'm a dunce.

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Oh, not at all.

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No, it's true, man. It's true. It is true.

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The last time, episode two for the season, I had Dr. Greedy Swee.

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And oh, God, I tell you, I'm over my head, man.

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But I'm happy to have you guys here.

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OK, people, I've got in the studio with me.

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I've got Felix Cheung.

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You can switch the camera now.

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OK, Felix Cheung.

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And we have Chelsea Nan.

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And let me tell you why they're here.

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It's because they've just released the new graphic novel.

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Check this one out.

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Goh Keng Swee, a Singaporean for all seasons.

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Felix Cheung is a renowned Singaporean author and poet.

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He's known for his work in young adult fiction and poetry.

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He's written two young adult fiction books, The Call from Crying House and his sequel, The Woman in the Last Carriage.

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And I can go on and on and on about this guy.

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Please do. Please do.

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We have lots of time.

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We really have a lot of time.

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And on my left, I have Chia Sinan.

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He's a former editorial cartoonist with the Straits Times.

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He's a guy that produced a popular comic strip, The House of Limb, for eight years.

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Eons ago. Eons ago.

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But still, I remember The House of Limb, man.

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I do. Yeah.

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And cartoon strip Billy and Salty.

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That's about environmental issues, right?

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Yeah. Okay.

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So I have two people, super talented people, came together and they came up with this book for Dr. Goh Keng Swee, or about Dr. Goh Keng Swee, Singaporean for all seasons.

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I have questions for you guys.

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Why?

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Why? Good question.

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Yeah. Why? Why? Why? Why? Why the inspiration to do something about a founding?

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Can I call him a founding father?

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He was one of the founding fathers.

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Okay. One of our founding fathers. Why?

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Okay. Maybe Sinan, you can start.

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Well, I approached Felix with the idea first.

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Because I had at least two or three ideas to, you know, I was hoping we could collaborate because I met him at the comic fair.

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This was when? Last year.

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I think October last year.

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Yeah. So exactly a year ago.

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Yeah. So I was thinking we could do something together and then I arranged a meeting. So I brought these two or three ideas. The first one he dismissed it.

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Well, you dismissed it.

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Dismissed it.

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And the second one he jumped. This is the one, the Goh Keng Swee.

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So amazing things happened at comic fairs.

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Yeah.

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Well, for me, I jumped at the idea of doing this book on Goh Keng Swee because firstly, I had never done a creative nonfiction book.

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So it allowed me a kind of creative freedom to try something new, a different genre.

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Plus, of course, I had great admiration for Dr. Goh.

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He was one of the founding fathers and he was the guy who started the SAF from scratch, from nothing.

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And then he also did other things like founded the SSO, started the idea for Sentosa, etc.

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Say H.T.B. Aswad, right?

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No.

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No?

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That was Limpin' Sun.

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Oh, okay. See, I'm getting all my facts wrong.

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Yeah, you need a brochure man.

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I tell you.

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General knowledge.

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Now since, wow. That's why I said it's very scary to have two people like this in my studio on my show.

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Because if you see, but curious.

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Goh Keng Swee, you told me why.

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But then again, in recent times, very recent times, even on Netflix besides CNA,

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there have been some documentaries on the life of the man, Mr. Lee Kuan Yew.

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Why didn't you guys think of doing one for him instead of for Dr. Goh Keng Swee?

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Because it's overdone.

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Oh, there's so many books on him.

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Yeah, there's so many books on him. So it's like trying to fry a leftover egg that's been fried many other times before.

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Wait, wait, wait. How long did it take you to do this? To come up with this graphic novel?

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Well, I did about a month of research in December.

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Right.

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I did all the books I could about Dr. Goh and then probably another month to write the script.

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Okay. So it was about a year ago, right?

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So if it's taken a year, at that time, last year in 2022 December,

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I don't think there was a forecast about this period right now, very recently,

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that you have documentaries on Mr. Lee Kuan Yew on Netflix and on Channel News Asia.

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So it wouldn't, I mean, it could have been that you would have done something on him instead of Dr. Goh.

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Or he could have been on S. Rajaratnam.

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Well, there were a couple of graphic novels already published on Mr. Lee.

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So we didn't want to track the same territory.

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Okay, okay.

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There's at least a couple. There's one manga even on LK1.

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Manga?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I'm not mistaken, a couple of years ago.

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Okay. I know this, you know, I read your book.

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Okay, this, guys, this is the book.

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Okay. And thank you so much for the book and the autographs, really.

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I mean, it's lovely, really. I mean, when I look at this, it's like, wow, this looks really cool, man.

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The artwork is really, really cool.

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It's a bit intense.

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There you go. There you go. It's on the screen.

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And then I read through this. And let me tell you, man, I need to ask you,

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you know what fascinated me in the beginning?

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When I opened this book and the story started like the opening sequence of a James Bond movie.

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Yes.

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Was that intentional?

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Yes, yes, it was intentional.

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It was intentional.

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To grip the audience, the reader.

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Yeah, yeah, that's pretty cool, man. Because it did get me, you know, hooked on it.

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Okay, what happened next? Did he bail out?

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And then what? And then the scene shot over to, segwayed over to 10 Downing Street.

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Or was it 9 Downing Street?

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No, it's not Downing Street.

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It looked like 9. There was a number 9 there.

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Ah, it's the Belk Graveyard. It's the Singapore High Com in London.

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Ah, okay.

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But the buildings all look the same.

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They look the same. I thought it was Downing Street, man.

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Okay, Felix, I need to ask you this. You're known for your poetry and your short stories.

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Then you, as you said, this is something creative for you to do.

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Yes.

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And so you jumped onto this bandwagon to get it done, right?

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So, being a person who is known for poetry and short stories, and then, I'm pretty sure that being new to this,

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what were the challenges you faced, man, writing this?

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Okay, prior to this I actually written a couple of...

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Yeah, Sprawl.

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Yeah, Sprawl.

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God's Lonely Man and Eve and the Lost Ghost Family. Graphic novels, right?

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Yes, graphic novels.

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So, the main challenge for me was getting into the head, inside the head space of Dr. Goh.

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So I started writing the script in the third person.

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Because Sinan and I were very clear from the start,

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we didn't want this to become another Wikipedia type of entry about Dr. Goh's life.

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He did this in this year, he did this in that year. It was boring.

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So we wanted a new approach. So I wanted to take a particular period of his life,

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between 1959 and 1964, and use that particular period as a reflection of his growth as a politician.

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Because from the research I gathered, he wasn't comfortable with being a politician.

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So the quotes that I see inside this, can I call this, for the sake of brevity and convenience,

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can I just call this a comic book?

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Yes, of course.

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What I read in this comic book, right, is like the quotes that I see in it, those were from you.

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Those were not quotes you actually discovered or found through your research about Dr. Goh, King Sui.

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I interspersed some real quotes from Dr. Goh with some fictional ones.

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So it's a genre that we call creative non-fiction.

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So in creative non-fiction, you're allowed to highlight certain emotional truths,

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and then through the truths, emotional truths, you can create dialogue.

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But it stays true to the spirit of the man, and stays true to the spirit of that particular incident.

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You see what I mean?

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Speculative fiction.

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Speculative fiction.

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Okay, so basically, through all your research, you realize that this is probably,

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the fictional part of it though, this is probably what he would be thinking,

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what he would be saying to himself in his own self-thought or self-thinking.

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And also the dialogue, the conversations that he had with his subordinates and other people like Lee Kuan Yew.

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So after I've done the research, as I was mentioning earlier, I still couldn't get into the spirit of the man.

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So I decided to write in his voice, through his point of view, and then it started clicking.

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Did he really call Mr. Lee Harry?

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Yes, and we verified that with Ms. Tan Sook San, who is the daughter-in-law of Dr. Goh.

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Kishore provided some background.

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So for example, we found out that Mr. Lee used to call Goh Keng Swee, Swee.

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Oh, so that is true.

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Yeah, that's true.

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His friends as well.

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His friends as well.

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So there were a lot of little details that we had to research into to find out certain things about,

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some of the incidents portrayed in the book.

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So we had to overhaul, change all the names.

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Oh, so you did change some names?

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What he was called, we would call him Kuan Yew or something, but that's not what they call him.

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They call him Harry.

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Yeah.

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But since you said that about names, changing some of the names, there is something I'm curious about.

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There's this guy, he was, that actually is my favorite part of the entire comping book.

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This particular scene where he was interviewing for his personal aid.

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Yeah, that's right.

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I made it up.

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You made it up?

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It's all totally made up.

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Well, that one's totally made up.

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Yep.

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Dang, you know why?

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I wanted to ask you guys about this guy that he eventually hired, Hwang.

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Yes.

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Is that guy fictitious?

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He's fictitious and he's a composite of different EDB officers.

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Ah, because I wanted to ask you guys that question, I'm going to ask you guys this later, but since you raised it, so I might as well just bring this up.

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Years ago in the 90s, I had the opportunity by chance at one of the more swanky members clubs on a Saturday afternoon,

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I still remember that quite vividly, a gentleman I met at a bar inside that gentleman's club who eventually we had, we started having a chat.

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And he was the personal aid to Dr. Goh.

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Oh, okay.

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Really?

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Give me his name.

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That's the thing.

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I can't remember.

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It was a long time ago, it was in the 90s.

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I think it was probably 97, 98.

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Oh, I would love to have interviewed him.

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He was a slight built man, Chinese guy, quite, you know, on a Saturday afternoon, it's quite clear that he cares about how he looks in terms of, you know, dressed presentably,

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sat on a armchair, legs crossed, very quiet man, soft spoken, and bespectacled.

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Typical of all civil servant scholars.

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No, but he was very measured in the way he spoke.

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And then he mentioned about what he did and how exacting Dr. Goh was.

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He was. Dr. Goh was very exacting.

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And his staff were not terrified of him, but were in awe of this man, you know, and he was his personal aid.

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Right? And the way he spoke, there was this very quiet, strong confidence in that man.

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Maybe, I don't know, it seemed to me, the impression I had was that Dr. Goh's personality and character probably, you know, fused into the people that worked closely with him as well.

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What is called the trickle down effect.

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Yeah. Yeah. And it was pretty remarkable.

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So when I was reading your comic book, I was going, hang on a second. It jogged a memory in me because I had this fortunate opportunity to have met this guy.

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And I wish to goodness I could have, I could remember his name.

230
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:56,000
But I can't.

231
00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,000
I hope the book will bring him.

232
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,000
Oh, I hope he's still around.

233
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,000
You know, at the time he was in his 50s, you know.

234
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:06,000
Right. His 90s.

235
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:12,000
Well, just after the mid 90s. Yeah. It's possible he's still around. It's possible he's still around.

236
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:20,000
So Sinan, how do you approach illustrating such a significant historical figure like Goh Keng Swee?

237
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:34,000
I was asking for all his photographs from Siokhsan. All the side views in the back. But she couldn't provide any so I had to do my own AI.

238
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:38,000
Your own AI. Okay. Must have been a very nervy affair.

239
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:45,000
Such an illustrious figure. And all the nuances that were shown. The expressions on his face.

240
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:49,000
So, you know, side profile. I have to do it myself.

241
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:59,000
Okay, but I just want to ask something about this part of the story guys where his car, when he was with his aide and his car broke down somewhere on the way to Jurong.

242
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:00,000
Right.

243
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,000
There was pictures as well.

244
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,000
Damn, bust by a freaking bubble.

245
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:13,000
We researched his car. We asked what he drove. The model and everything.

246
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:18,000
So this other guy that helped him along, this Wong character.

247
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:19,000
He's also fictitious.

248
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,000
Oh man, another bubble bust. Okay.

249
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:42,000
You can't really tell, well you can tell to some extent what is real. So there are historical events depicted in the book that are real. But in between these historical incidents, there are fictitious episodes that I hope will bring out Dr. Goh's personality.

250
00:17:42,000 --> 00:18:02,000
So you're confident that though despite the fact that some of these portions inside this comic book is fictitious, right? But you're confident that how he managed these, though it's fiction, how he managed these characters for example.

251
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:17,000
Well these are anecdotes from the actual events that happened. We just have to put some drama into it. Much like what you see, like the crown and all that. So you base it on real life events.

252
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:28,000
But no, but the thing is, you said these are anecdotes of things that actually did happen. Like what? Let's hear it from you. What did you find out?

253
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:32,000
The training jet incident actually happened when he was...

254
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:33,000
No freaking way man.

255
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,000
Yeah, it was in the...

256
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,000
It was in the real incident.

257
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,000
Yeah, in the video clips.

258
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,000
So there was a Hunter jet.

259
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,000
Yes.

260
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,000
That crashed.

261
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,000
That crashed in the...

262
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:43,000
And the pilot bailed out.

263
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,000
When he was visiting the UK.

264
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:51,000
And Dr. Goh did visit the downed pilot in the hospital.

265
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,000
Oh that one, yes.

266
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,000
Ah ha.

267
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,000
So then we probably took a bit of creative liberties.

268
00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:59,000
Right, right, right.

269
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:06,000
So creative non-fiction is this genre where the storytellers have some creative liberties to maneuver.

270
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,000
Right.

271
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:12,000
So it's like a lot of Hollywood films that are supposedly based on or inspired by true stories.

272
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:27,000
So you may have a certain incident like incident A, but you can create a narrative or story around it to make it true, to present, to show to the audience the emotional truth for that particular incident.

273
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:31,000
So that it is a bit more dramatic and a bit more engaging.

274
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,000
Right.

275
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:37,000
Because if we didn't do that, then the book would just be boring, just a lot of talking hits.

276
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,000
People talking about this, talking about that policy and so on.

277
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:46,000
So back to my point about that particular period between 1959 and 1964.

278
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,000
Right.

279
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:54,000
So I was interested in how Dr. Goh took the Jurong Industrial Estate project.

280
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,000
Yeah.

281
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,000
And how he saw it through to its fruition.

282
00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,000
Right.

283
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:04,000
So I used that particular incident because it was seen as Goh's folly.

284
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,000
Right.

285
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,000
It was rightly.

286
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,000
Did he really have challenges with the cabinet at the time over this?

287
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:10,000
Yes.

288
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:11,000
And this one is documented.

289
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:12,000
That is true.

290
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,000
That is true.

291
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:23,000
He had a lot of internal fights with his cabinet colleagues because they were not willing to put so much money to develop a swum land into an industrial estate.

292
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:24,000
Right.

293
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:29,000
So he fought for it and it was rightly panned as Goh's folly.

294
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,000
If it didn't work, his reputation is on the line.

295
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,000
Wow.

296
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:35,000
And that of the PAP as well.

297
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,000
Wow.

298
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,000
So he had to succeed or the whole government collapses.

299
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:41,000
Wow.

300
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:45,000
So that's why it became a pivotal point in the story for me.

301
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,000
Right.

302
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:51,000
I pulled out this part of your comic.

303
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,000
This is my favorite part.

304
00:20:54,000 --> 00:21:00,000
So there's this, the bit about, as I told you earlier, the one about the interview for his personal aid.

305
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,000
I like that very much, man.

306
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,000
Kai, you can put it up, Kai.

307
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,000
The very first.

308
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,000
Yes, there you go.

309
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,000
I'm just going to read this out, yeah.

310
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:16,000
When he's interviewing, you can see the picture on the screen, he's interviewing for a new personal aid.

311
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,000
And he says, you're here today not because you're a high achiever for that.

312
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,000
I'm sorry, high achiever.

313
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:26,000
For that, you've already been duly rewarded for a good job in the public service.

314
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,000
You're here because I need an aid.

315
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,000
Not someone to fetch me coffee or whatever.

316
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,000
And not a speech writer.

317
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,000
I do that myself.

318
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:42,000
I need you to be my arms and legs and sometimes my eyes and ears.

319
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,000
Tell me, guys, fiction or not?

320
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:46,000
This bit, fiction, right?

321
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,000
It is fiction.

322
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:51,000
But what he said, do you think Dr. Gold King C would have spoken that way?

323
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,000
I believe he would have, yes.

324
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,000
Really?

325
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,000
He was a very straight talking man.

326
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:56,000
No BS about him.

327
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:57,000
Yeah.

328
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,000
You either come to the point or get out of my office.

329
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,000
Okay, but is this next thing that happened BS?

330
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:08,000
Because he said to this aid, supposedly, well, it's fiction, right?

331
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,000
Now we know.

332
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,000
But first, I have to know if you're good enough.

333
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:18,000
Now, identify the composer of this piece of music you're hearing.

334
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,000
Bullshit, right?

335
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,000
Yes and no.

336
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:27,000
Dr. Gold was a firm fan of classical music.

337
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:35,000
And he believes or he believed that an educated man should know classical music.

338
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,000
Oh.

339
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,000
In fact, these notes.

340
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,000
The notes in the picture, right?

341
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:50,000
It was in the front cover when I first showed it to Felix and Melvin.

342
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:56,000
Melvin's are published, but he removed it because it wasn't done properly.

343
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,000
Right.

344
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:58,000
It's actually the first bar.

345
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,000
So it's supposed to be somewhere on the cover.

346
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,000
Yes, yes.

347
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,000
It was just running.

348
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,000
It would have been, hey Melvin, it would have been nice if it was there anyway.

349
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,000
I think it would look really cool, man.

350
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,000
Melvin is not going to like me saying that.

351
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,000
I know that.

352
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,000
Yeah.

353
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,000
But it should be there.

354
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,000
Okay.

355
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,000
Yeah.

356
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,000
So.

357
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,000
Point taken.

358
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,000
I really think it should because if he's sitting down there contemplating, he would have had

359
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,000
classical music playing in the background.

360
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,000
Am I right?

361
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,000
Is that how you guys see him?

362
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:30,000
And then eventually, of course, he founded the SSO because of his love for classical

363
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,000
music.

364
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,000
Right.

365
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,000
And then interestingly, in that comic strip, when he said that to this aide, Kai, could

366
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,000
you put that same picture up again, please?

367
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:38,000
Yes, thank you.

368
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:46,000
And then the response from this first applicant said, I think it's by a classical music composer.

369
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:51,000
Then Dr. Goh went, and I summoned the next one.

370
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,000
It's so fun.

371
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:58,000
And then the next clip, the next clip is, you can play that, put that one up now.

372
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,000
What's the difference between Verdi and Vivaldi?

373
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,000
They were both Renaissance painters.

374
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,000
Then he goes, next!

375
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,000
They have the degree.

376
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,000
This is the bit that got me.

377
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,000
This was what I really enjoyed.

378
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:21,000
They have the degree that parks them at their station, but by no means that curiosity from

379
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:22,000
education.

380
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,000
Felix's words.

381
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:33,000
Yes, my words, but again, this came from research I've done that Dr. Goh believes that an education

382
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:40,000
is not just enough for you to get a degree, but it's to make you a rounded person.

383
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:48,000
So that's why I put that in, that he didn't believe that just by getting a civil service

384
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,000
job, you are kind of made for life.

385
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,000
He doesn't believe in the whole un-visable.

386
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:59,000
What do you guys think that context, how is it like today?

387
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,000
Is it still the same?

388
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,000
Opinion, opinion, opinion.

389
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,000
Will we be hung for this?

390
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,000
Well, why are you worried about being hung?

391
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,000
We're just giving you opinion.

392
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,000
Well, I think times are different.

393
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:17,000
It's a very different time from it was back then.

394
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:27,000
I don't think Dr. Goh's way of managing people would be as well received these days as it

395
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,000
would be back then.

396
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,000
What?

397
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,000
Because he was very blunt.

398
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,000
But don't you think that that should ring true today still, that it should transcend

399
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,000
across generations?

400
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:43,000
If this is truly the man that he was, and he was really the guy responsible for setting

401
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:50,000
up so many good stuff for this country, for this nation, and we all can attribute that

402
00:25:50,000 --> 00:26:01,000
success, our success, to him, why would these sort of values actually not be espoused today?

403
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,000
Don't you think?

404
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,000
Opinion.

405
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,000
Okay, I myself am self-taught.

406
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,000
I didn't go to any truth.

407
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,000
Then with the work that I see you do, man, you're freaking amazing, man.

408
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:21,000
But the thing is, I don't know, different fields have different approach, someone who

409
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,000
can approach it differently.

410
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:31,000
And if you can excel in it, then why don't you concentrate on that instead of what Dr.

411
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:37,000
Goh espoused was that, yeah, like Pili said, you need an all-rounded education.

412
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,000
Sure.

413
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,000
But aesthetics, you find your own.

414
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:50,000
But don't you think that that sort of value should actually also be spoken of today?

415
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:58,000
That it's more than just about getting that academic degree, that fantastic brimming in

416
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:04,000
absolute academic degrees and the honors and your PhDs and all that, right?

417
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:09,000
And that's more to education than just that.

418
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,000
Don't you think so?

419
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:11,000
I mean, I don't know, man, he caught me.

420
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,000
When I was reading this, I was going, wow, yeah.

421
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,000
And that came from Phoenix Jung.

422
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,000
Well, that's true.

423
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,000
And it was the quickest way to get a man to say yes by offering him money.

424
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,000
Oh my.

425
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:35,000
So that's again fictional, but again, it's understanding from inside out what a man is like.

426
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:43,000
So as I said earlier, I couldn't write the manuscript until I've gotten inside the man's head.

427
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:49,000
And then I started writing in his voice and suddenly the whole story kind of wrote itself.

428
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,000
So it was as though I was assimilating his spirit.

429
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:54,000
So you were in the zone, man.

430
00:27:54,000 --> 00:28:01,000
I was in the zone and I was writing as though he was inside me, talking through me.

431
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,000
Wow. For all you know, he might have been, man.

432
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,000
It's possible.

433
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,000
Yeah, really.

434
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,000
I think you brought him across quite vividly, you know, frankly.

435
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,000
Especially his sense of humor.

436
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,000
He was a man known for his-

437
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,000
Really, he looks so stern, man.

438
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,000
He looked at all his pictures and he looks like such a stern guy.

439
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,000
But Sinan, all these aides, and I look at their pictures and stuff, you know,

440
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:28,000
their face, you know, their- how shall I express this?

441
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,000
All of their faces that you drew, they're all different people, the way they looked and all that.

442
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,000
Some look like-

443
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,000
I have to make them look different.

444
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,000
One look like a gundu, the other one look like a- yeah.

445
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:41,000
So, you know, I mean, how do you come up with this sort of imagination,

446
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,000
to come up with all these different faces?

447
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,000
Well, that's Felix.

448
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,000
What?

449
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,000
Felix.

450
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,000
Oh, is that a portrait of me?

451
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,000
No way, really?

452
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,000
A bit, a bit.

453
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:56,000
Okay, so the one that you said looks like Felix, Kai, that's the next clip, Kai.

454
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,000
The one that says next, same question.

455
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,000
That's the one.

456
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,000
Okay, that's new to me.

457
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:08,000
So the guy at the top, Sinan, you're saying that you actually drew this guy as a depiction of what?

458
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,000
Or you took Felix's look, and this is your idea.

459
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,000
Some features of- not all-

460
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,000
Yeah, okay, I can come and think of it.

461
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,000
I can look closely at it.

462
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,000
Yeah, that's a-

463
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,000
Okay, I need to do a double take on that.

464
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,000
Sinan, I need to charge you copyright fees for that.

465
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,000
I even drew his cat, okay, one of the pages.

466
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,000
Is it?

467
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,000
Yes, somewhere in the story.

468
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:37,000
Wow, by giving him a roof over his head, that's what you said.

469
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,000
And then he wasn't very happy with that answer as well, because why?

470
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,000
Why?

471
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,000
Why do you put by giving him a roof over his head?

472
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:49,000
Because you knew that Goh Keng Swee is not going to like that kind of answer.

473
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,000
You knew that?

474
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,000
Because I think he wasn't one for material things.

475
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,000
So money, roof over your head, those are material things.

476
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,000
Or is it too left?

477
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,000
No, not too left.

478
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,000
I think you're trying to sway the conversation towards the left.

479
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,000
No, I'm not.

480
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,000
No, I'm not.

481
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,000
I have nothing planned.

482
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,000
Really?

483
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,000
Yeah.

484
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,000
You guys have something I can't do.

485
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:13,000
No, I have no agenda, man.

486
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:18,000
Having said that, his office itself, you know, it was so bad.

487
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,000
Which is good for me, I didn't need to draw a lot of...

488
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,000
His office, why?

489
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,000
It was quite bare.

490
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,000
Bare?

491
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,000
Yeah.

492
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:26,000
Right.

493
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,000
So that was good for me because I didn't need to draw...

494
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,000
Do too much work.

495
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,000
Books and...

496
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,000
Yeah.

497
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,000
Okay, I really need you to get in front of the mic, man.

498
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,000
So, you know, it was dark and...

499
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,000
So was it really like that?

500
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:40,000
You guys have pictures of his office.

501
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,000
We found an archive photo of his office, and it was really bare.

502
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,000
Wow.

503
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,000
And it's befitting a man who was very frugal and known to be quite sparing in, you know,

504
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,000
of sensuous things.

505
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:57,000
Don't you think that that should be the kind of leader that, you know, that should really

506
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:02,000
be the image of a true leader?

507
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:09,000
Well, you might say so, but as I said, it's very different times now.

508
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,000
Without all the ostentatiousness and, you know...

509
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,000
But they were talking about the 50s, this...

510
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,000
I mean, what's there?

511
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,000
There's no computer screen, there's no...

512
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,000
Yeah, sure, sure, but he could have...

513
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,000
The office could have been opulent too, right?

514
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,000
Yes.

515
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:25,000
But it wasn't, right?

516
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,000
Yeah.

517
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:32,000
And by the way, you will notice in the cartoons that Dr. Goh has a particular habit of lining

518
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:33,000
up pens.

519
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,000
Yeah, it sounds like someone familiar that's right now in the East China.

520
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,000
Yes.

521
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:38,000
I've heard a lot about that too.

522
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,000
So apparently that's a real thing that he does.

523
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,000
That's what he did.

524
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:47,000
That he, if he was impatient with you or during a meeting, he would take all his pens from

525
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,000
his pen holder and line them up.

526
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,000
And line them up for what?

527
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,000
I don't know.

528
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:54,000
He just did it as a habit.

529
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,000
I would have thought line them up, take it and throw it at the guy.

530
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,000
You know, you say one more thing and I'm going to throw this one at you, and then I'm going

531
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,000
to take this one and I'm going to throw another one at you, you know?

532
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,000
Yeah, so okay, so he lined them up.

533
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,000
He lined them up and then he would...

534
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,000
Impatient, treacherous.

535
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,000
Yeah, it was one way for him to...

536
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:08,000
It was what?

537
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:09,000
Possible.

538
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:14,000
I suppose his subordinates would know if he had like five pens lined up, six pens that

539
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,000
he was...

540
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,000
That he's pissed off.

541
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,000
He's pissed off.

542
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,000
You better end the meeting fast or get out.

543
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,000
Uh-huh.

544
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,000
We need to ask our current president whether he has the same habit, man.

545
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,000
Line up all his pens too, eh?

546
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,000
Ten pens.

547
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,000
Right.

548
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,000
Okay.

549
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,000
And then it's interestingly, man, the next guy that came along was the guy he eventually

550
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,000
hired.

551
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,800
What's the quickest way to get a man to say yes and the answer was by understanding why

552
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,360
he would say no.

553
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,920
I would think that was pretty cool, you know?

554
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:51,200
And then after that, what you did was you put that last frame at the bottom, right,

555
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,600
with him holding on to his pen and with his face...

556
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:55,600
Frozen.

557
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:56,600
Frozen.

558
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:57,600
I think that's...

559
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,200
That really, I mean, that was really cool.

560
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,600
Really, I think that was really cool, you know?

561
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,000
And that was the answer that he was looking for.

562
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,000
That was the answer.

563
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,000
That gave him something that was...

564
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:15,600
Yeah, but I'm just so sad that you guys have just really busted my bubble to tell me that

565
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:20,720
my favorite scene in this comic book is entirely fictitious.

566
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,400
It's fictitious, but it's kind of true to life.

567
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,080
Yeah, but it was freaking brilliant, man.

568
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:27,920
I was hoping that you really...

569
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:32,400
This would have been something real because it's like, wow, I really like this man, you

570
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:33,400
know?

571
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:43,000
I really like this man because he looked at someone way far beyond your academic qualification

572
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,840
and all that shit.

573
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,440
He wanted someone real.

574
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:47,440
He wanted someone real.

575
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:48,880
He wanted someone down to earth.

576
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:54,320
He wanted someone who could feel the way he feels, you know?

577
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,480
And that's what I read from it, man.

578
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,280
And then after that, then he looked at his qualifications.

579
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,960
After he said, that's a shrewd answer, young man.

580
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:01,960
That's the next clip.

581
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:02,960
There you go.

582
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:03,960
It's called Huang Che Tong.

583
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,360
Where did you get that name?

584
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:12,160
It's a composite of different EDB officers' names.

585
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,000
So you got a guy you found in EDB.

586
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,000
One guy is a Huang.

587
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,000
There's a Che somewhere and there's a Tong somewhere.

588
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:19,000
And you put it together.

589
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,000
And put it together.

590
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,000
Oh man.

591
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,000
That's how viters work.

592
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,000
You know what?

593
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,000
I think I'm going to do one graphic novel with you guys, man.

594
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,000
Come up with something even more fun.

595
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,000
I'm going to put your name somewhere in my graphic novel.

596
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,000
Featured here in time.

597
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,000
There's going to be a hand and then there's going to be a son.

598
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,000
Oh gosh.

599
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,000
And then there's going to be a quiz.

600
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,000
I'll make it simple for you.

601
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:38,000
It's called Son of a Hand.

602
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,000
We'll feature you in our next book.

603
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,000
Son of a Hand or Son of a Cock.

604
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:41,000
No, no.

605
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,000
Now we're in the shits.

606
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:43,000
Here we go.

607
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:44,000
And then this part.

608
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,000
Hey, come on, man.

609
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,000
Come on.

610
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,000
This is too far fetched.

611
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,000
This part where he says, ah, like me, you were born in Malacca too.

612
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,000
Kenapa awak mau bekerja untuk saya?

613
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,000
Right?

614
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:51,000
And then this part, this part, this part is, ah, like me, you were born in Malacca too.

615
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:52,000
Kenapa awak mau bekerja untuk saya?

616
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,000
Right?

617
00:34:53,000 --> 00:35:04,560
And Bahasa.

618
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,480
And he replied in English because there are 200,000 people who are jobless in Singapore

619
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,240
and he can make a difference and that is so motherhood statement.

620
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:12,240
Yes.

621
00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:13,240
Which he didn't like.

622
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:14,240
Look, was he like that?

623
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:15,240
Yeah.

624
00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:19,720
So that's why in the next page, Dr. Goh says that he didn't like the answer.

625
00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:20,720
I know.

626
00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:21,880
He said he didn't like the answer.

627
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,400
He didn't like the motherhood statement, right?

628
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,200
It is stating the freaking obvious, right?

629
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:27,200
Correct.

630
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:28,200
Right?

631
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,720
I don't think he really liked being in, if he was, you know, if times are different in

632
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:37,600
a different parallel universe, he really wouldn't like being in parliament today.

633
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:38,600
Yep.

634
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,280
And the kind of big houses that ministers met.

635
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:43,280
No, man.

636
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:44,280
No, no, no.

637
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:45,280
It's not about, I'm not going to go there.

638
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:46,280
I'm just going to say that.

639
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:47,280
Come on.

640
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,440
There's just so many motherhood statements being made.

641
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:50,440
Yep.

642
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:51,440
Right?

643
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:58,320
And you discover it truly by research that he wouldn't be, he really didn't like all

644
00:35:58,320 --> 00:35:59,320
that.

645
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:00,320
All that…

646
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:01,320
All that ostentatious…

647
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:02,320
No, no, no.

648
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,320
All that motherhood statements, you know?

649
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:05,320
No, he wasn't.

650
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:06,760
He wouldn't have liked it.

651
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:07,760
He wouldn't have liked it.

652
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:08,760
He wanted action.

653
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,320
He wanted people to really believe what, or walk the talk.

654
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:13,320
Yes.

655
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:14,320
Right?

656
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:15,320
And get the work done.

657
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:16,320
And get the job done.

658
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:17,320
Yep.

659
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:18,320
Because he was that kind of man.

660
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:19,320
Because he was that kind of man.

661
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:20,320
He was that kind of man.

662
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:21,320
Ideas into action.

663
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:22,320
Right.

664
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,200
So if I were to ask you, Sinan, as the illustrator, because Felix did the research.

665
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,280
He wrote, he came up with all these dialogue, right?

666
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:30,280
And is it right for me to say that dialogue?

667
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:31,280
Is it right for me to use the word dialogue?

668
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:32,280
Yeah, yeah.

669
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:33,280
Use dialogue.

670
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,280
I'm so afraid now because I'm a fall level older.

671
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:36,280
I talk to all the smart people.

672
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:37,280
It's the script.

673
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:38,280
He gave me the script.

674
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:39,280
Yeah, he wrote the script.

675
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:40,280
I had to put the drama inside.

676
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:41,280
Yeah, he put the drama inside.

677
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:46,040
My role and all the action scenes I told him to give it to me.

678
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:50,760
So basically, you must also have an understanding of what the man is all about in order for

679
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,600
you to come up with all these.

680
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:59,000
With all these wonderful illustrations and how we stop with his frozen face and stuff.

681
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,040
And including this guy, man.

682
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:02,960
The guy that he eventually hired, right?

683
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,640
This fictitious A, Huang Che Tong, right?

684
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:06,640
Look at that face, man.

685
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,280
I mean, to me, he really looks like a PSB guy.

686
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,800
Or an EDB guy.

687
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:14,760
You know, he really looks like a...

688
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:20,000
I mean, I'm sorry, man, but guys from EDB and PSB, I don't mean any disrespect, but

689
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,200
you guys do have a certain kind of look.

690
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:23,560
Yeah, he looks like...

691
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:24,560
Even they agree.

692
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,560
I think he's a mix of...

693
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,880
Who did I use to reference?

694
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:30,880
A bit of...

695
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:31,880
Not altogether, who?

696
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:32,880
A bit of Keanu Reeves.

697
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:33,880
What?

698
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:34,880
He looks like Philip Yeoh.

699
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:35,880
I don't know.

700
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:36,880
He looks a bit like Philip Yeoh, man.

701
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:37,880
I didn't use Philip Yeoh.

702
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:38,880
A very young Philip Yeoh.

703
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:39,880
Yeah, a very young Philip Yeoh.

704
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:40,880
But he looks like him, don't you think?

705
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:41,880
So if you look at him carefully...

706
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:42,880
No, maybe he's from the...

707
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:43,880
I do see a bit of Keanu Reeves, though.

708
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:44,880
I didn't use Philip Yeoh at all.

709
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:45,880
I didn't use Philip Yeoh at all.

710
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:46,880
I didn't use Philip Yeoh at all.

711
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,320
I didn't use Philip Yeoh at all.

712
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,200
No, not all of it.

713
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:53,200
The lips are different.

714
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:54,200
So not all of it.

715
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:55,200
No, I know.

716
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:56,200
The lips are different.

717
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:57,200
I know that.

718
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:58,200
I know that.

719
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,520
But when you have to come up with all these...

720
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,560
I mean, you must have gotten to know the man, the spirit of the man, too, in order for you

721
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,760
to come up with all these, too, right?

722
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,160
When I was approached by GIC...

723
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,680
This is years before Felix.

724
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,840
I gathered all his portraits.

725
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,280
I did some composite studies.

726
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:28,320
At that time, I had all these laid out for presentation, but the deal fell through.

727
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,920
I said, okay, I've worked this far.

728
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:31,920
Why not?

729
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,000
Don't waste it.

730
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,840
So if they didn't want to do it, you might as well do it yourself.

731
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:36,840
Yeah.

732
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:37,840
But I need the...

733
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:38,840
Man after my own heart.

734
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:39,840
I need a partner.

735
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,840
I just approached Felix.

736
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:43,840
Right.

737
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,600
So now that you've released this, well, good for you, man.

738
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,360
I mean, you guys, I love this.

739
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:49,360
I love the cover.

740
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:50,880
I love the story inside.

741
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,360
And I really love that James Bondian thing in the beginning.

742
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:54,960
Really, I think it was brilliant.

743
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:55,960
It was a good way to hook the video.

744
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:57,960
Yeah, it was a hell of a good hook, man.

745
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,240
That hooked me as well.

746
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:03,720
I was looking through the video clips.

747
00:39:03,720 --> 00:39:10,200
This fellow who went to the Singapore High Com actually told...

748
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,560
Related in the documentary that he was such a man.

749
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:14,560
Yeah.

750
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:15,720
Singaporean for all seasons.

751
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:16,720
For all seasons, huh?

752
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:17,720
Yeah.

753
00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:18,720
That's also because he had...

754
00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:28,400
I mean, you know, there's an interesting part in this book, in the comic, where boldly you

755
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:33,880
guys actually put up the Operation Cold Store.

756
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,040
That was the controversial part.

757
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,040
But you also had to do your research, right?

758
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:40,040
Yep.

759
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,240
And I see you guys wrote that in here, right?

760
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:45,240
These are true accounts.

761
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:46,240
Yep.

762
00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:51,280
And how it was mentioned as to why they should go ahead and do what they did.

763
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:52,280
Yep.

764
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:53,760
Well, ballsy, man, guys.

765
00:39:53,760 --> 00:40:01,200
Because otherwise, you know, the number of strikes and the number of labor unrest, things

766
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,320
that were happening back then, would never end.

767
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,160
You even had the copy of The Straits Times inside here.

768
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:13,000
It says, 107 hell in Singapore, dawn drive.

769
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,240
That's from a real Straits Times cover story.

770
00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:17,240
We didn't make that up.

771
00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:18,240
Yeah.

772
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:21,440
So Goh Keng Swee was also in favor of it.

773
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,440
It was a cabinet decision.

774
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:24,440
Right.

775
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,440
But I'm not sure...

776
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:30,680
There was no record of whether there was any dissent.

777
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,440
But you looked at it this way, like you looked at it that he was part of the cabinet.

778
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:38,320
Certainly, he was also in the cabinet as a collective as he discussed this.

779
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,320
They couldn't afford all these troubles at that time.

780
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:46,320
Because of all the strikes and the riots that were happening.

781
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,440
It was either a make or break decision.

782
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:56,320
And so they ran full hawk into it, arrest all these troublemakers, put them under detention.

783
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:05,160
And then increasingly they started weaning out the leftists from unions.

784
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:06,160
Right.

785
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:07,160
Well, I really...

786
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,320
I mean, sometimes I think about it, those were difficult days.

787
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:11,320
Those were difficult, turbulent days.

788
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:12,320
Wow.

789
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:13,320
For sure.

790
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:14,320
Not a day went by...

791
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:15,320
What a cowboy town.

792
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:16,320
Yeah.

793
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:17,320
With no incident.

794
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:18,320
Yeah, man.

795
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:19,320
What a cowboy town, man.

796
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,320
I can just imagine that.

797
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:30,680
And so, okay, you know the show, we're going to end the show with a particular...

798
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,600
With a particular...

799
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,800
My most favorite part of the...

800
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,600
The audition part was your favorite part.

801
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:39,600
The what?

802
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:40,600
The audition?

803
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:41,600
No, you mean the interviews.

804
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:42,600
Oh, the interviews.

805
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,040
No, there's actually this particular snippet here.

806
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:46,040
It's going to come up at the end.

807
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:47,040
I'm putting it in post.

808
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:48,520
It's not going to be shown now.

809
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:51,080
It'll be shown in post.

810
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,120
Which means at the end of this program, it'll be up.

811
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:55,760
And this is when...

812
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,640
Tell me, tell me, whether you found this somewhere.

813
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:00,640
I swear.

814
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,520
If you're going to tell me this is not...

815
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:05,520
This is fictional.

816
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:06,520
I'm really going to scream.

817
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,720
Why are you going to scream?

818
00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:10,240
Well, he walks out.

819
00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:14,040
He walks out of the hospital at St. Thomas, which I know he didn't visit because there's

820
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:15,040
no record of that.

821
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:16,040
Yep, no record of that.

822
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:17,040
So we can't make it up.

823
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,440
But there was this thing that's here.

824
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:22,440
He had his overcoat on.

825
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:23,960
He put on his hat.

826
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,080
He walked out of the hospital.

827
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:31,120
And after visiting, the young lieutenant injured after he bailed out from his plane.

828
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,240
That one we know is true that he bailed out.

829
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:38,400
He said, Dr. Goh said, well, allegedly, I don't know whether it's Felix saying this

830
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:45,280
or Dr. Goh, policies may make a difference, but they will find no purchase when you forget

831
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,360
that people matter.

832
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,000
That's the poet speaking.

833
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,600
Not the politician, the poet.

834
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,400
The poet slash politician.

835
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,400
But kudos, man.

836
00:42:58,400 --> 00:42:59,400
I mean, I love that.

837
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:00,400
It's good writing.

838
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:01,400
Yes.

839
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:02,400
I love that one.

840
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:03,400
I'm glad I engaged Felix.

841
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,480
Yeah, it's really very good, man.

842
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:12,240
I mean, and it resonated with me because I agree, people matter.

843
00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:17,000
At the end of the day, the policy is all boils down to people.

844
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,000
Yeah, man.

845
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:19,000
It boils down to people, man.

846
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,400
It's not about $153,000 for your COE and stuff like that.

847
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:23,400
Oh my God.

848
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:24,400
It's a what?

849
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:25,400
It's true, man.

850
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:26,400
It is $153,000 in your COE.

851
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:27,400
Yeah.

852
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:28,400
I mean, it's not about that, right?

853
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:33,400
I mean, $153,000 to make sure that we have no traffic jam, not too bad traffic jam problem

854
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:34,400
in Singapore.

855
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:35,400
I mean, traffic congestion.

856
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:36,400
I don't know.

857
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:37,400
I don't know.

858
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:38,400
I don't know.

859
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:39,400
Just saying.

860
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:47,040
But people do matter and they should always be top of any politician's list.

861
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:48,040
It is about the people.

862
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:49,040
Exactly.

863
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:54,400
And I'm saying it as a citizen of this country, you know, and I'm not trying to play politics.

864
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,480
I never like to bring politics into my show.

865
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:57,480
I never did.

866
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:02,120
But, you know, but since I read that, what you wrote though, now that I've discovered,

867
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:03,120
was you, Felix.

868
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:12,080
You know, frankly, I felt so heartened when I read that because I thought, wow, Goh Keng

869
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,560
Swee actually felt that way.

870
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,800
But do you think he would have thought the same?

871
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:19,800
I think so.

872
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:26,200
I think based on what he said in public, his speeches and from the number of books I read,

873
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,720
I think he is a man of that caliber.

874
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:29,720
So confidently you...

875
00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:33,600
Yes, confidently I would say he is a man of the people.

876
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,080
He feels for the ordinary man.

877
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:41,040
It's not just lip service or motherhood statements.

878
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:42,040
It is in him.

879
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,200
It is in the man himself.

880
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:48,800
How do you guys, were there any particular anecdotes or aspects of Goh Keng Swee's life

881
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,760
that stood out to you during your research?

882
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:56,880
For me, it was the practical joke he played on his commanders in the SAF.

883
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:57,880
What practical joke?

884
00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,880
You didn't know about this?

885
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:00,880
Never do research.

886
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:01,880
I do research for what?

887
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:02,880
I'm not the one writing the book.

888
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:03,880
You're the one writing the book, not me.

889
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:04,880
Before your interview, you need to do research.

890
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:05,880
Don't need.

891
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:06,880
I just need to ask you.

892
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:07,880
Otherwise, I have a conversation for what?

893
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:08,880
Since I know everything, I don't need to ask you.

894
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:09,880
Is this that letter he wrote?

895
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:14,160
Yeah, this is the joke that he played on his commander.

896
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:20,320
So this is why I felt that, and this is something I put throughout the book, that he is a man,

897
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,400
a witty man, a humorous man.

898
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:27,800
So what he did was he wanted to test if his commanders actually read directives from upstairs.

899
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:36,440
So what he did was he sent a directive quoting passages from Noah's Ark, from the Bible,

900
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:37,440
about the Noah's Ark.

901
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:38,440
Okay, from Genesis, yeah.

902
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:39,440
Okay.

903
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:40,440
Right.

904
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,680
And then he wanted to see if anybody read it.

905
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,160
So some of these freaking commanders had no idea what it was about.

906
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,280
They just posted it on the routine order.

907
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,280
As word for word.

908
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:52,280
Verbatim.

909
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:53,280
Verbatim.

910
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,000
Without asking what it was about.

911
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:56,000
Oh gosh.

912
00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:01,960
And then he even wrote a paper about it, which is published.

913
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:02,960
Really?

914
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:03,960
Yes.

915
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:08,040
Just to show that people are just following orders blindly and not really reading and

916
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:09,040
understanding the content.

917
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:10,040
Yes.

918
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,040
Ah, it's the same damn shit today, man.

919
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:14,040
Nothing changes.

920
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,040
I think he will probably have fun.

921
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:21,480
I mean, I'm not saying the SCF in particular, I'm saying in general, man.

922
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,320
Across society, man.

923
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,360
People will just read headlines and that's about it.

924
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:27,360
You know what I'm saying?

925
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:28,360
How many?

926
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:29,920
Don't bluff, you jokers out there.

927
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:31,160
I know.

928
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,720
You just read the headlines and then you make a lot of assumptions.

929
00:46:33,720 --> 00:46:35,240
Without really reading the content.

930
00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:39,080
You gotta read everything, okay?

931
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,040
And also question the things you read.

932
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:42,040
Yeah, they don't question.

933
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:43,640
They don't question, man.

934
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:46,360
I mean, stop being damn sheep, man.

935
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,720
Read stuff and learn and discern.

936
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:49,720
Come on.

937
00:46:49,720 --> 00:46:54,400
And not because a lot of people today like to go, I'm not a pig.

938
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:55,400
I'm not a pig.

939
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:56,400
I'm not a pig.

940
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:57,400
I'm not a pig.

941
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:58,400
You can push the buck.

942
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,960
Yeah, it's not my problem.

943
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:01,960
I don't care.

944
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,760
I can earn money good enough.

945
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:09,040
Which is where, outside of this book, just having a conversation right now.

946
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,280
You know, it's just where I raise this.

947
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:12,760
You guys are gonna look at me funny.

948
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:13,760
You guys are gonna say stupid things.

949
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:14,760
I know.

950
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:15,760
I know.

951
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,200
About what I'm about to say.

952
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:22,040
I keep telling people every other day.

953
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:26,640
Singaporeans, when you walk out of your house, every now and then, look up.

954
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:27,640
Yes.

955
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:28,640
Look up.

956
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:29,640
Not just like a phone.

957
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:30,640
Yeah.

958
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:31,640
Look up.

959
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:32,640
Look up and see whether or not it's a UFO.

960
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:33,640
What?

961
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:34,640
Taze, please.

962
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:35,640
No, I'm not kidding.

963
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:36,640
Really.

964
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:42,760
I mean, the reason why we think that aren't any is because we're not freaking looking

965
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:43,760
up enough.

966
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:44,760
Yes.

967
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:45,760
Guess what, man?

968
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,920
I'm freaking looking up and I saw one.

969
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:49,920
One UFO?

970
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:50,920
Yeah.

971
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:51,920
Like.

972
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:53,520
I'm not shitting you, man.

973
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:54,520
Hey, come on.

974
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:55,520
Come on.

975
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:56,520
You haven't watched.

976
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:57,520
Okay, you gotta watch.

977
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:58,520
Okay?

978
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,680
Once this season is really released out there, right?

979
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:03,680
Watch my UFO series, man.

980
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:04,680
Okay.

981
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:05,680
We'll do.

982
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:06,680
We'll do.

983
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:07,680
Yeah, yeah.

984
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:08,680
Is that part of the X-Files?

985
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:09,680
No, I'm telling you, man.

986
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:10,680
I've got...

987
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:11,680
It's a series, is it?

988
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:12,680
It's a series.

989
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:16,800
It's a series that is happening throughout the entire season for a few verticals.

990
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,440
And this is called UFO Reveal Asia.

991
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:20,440
Okay?

992
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,520
And you gotta watch those two episodes for this season.

993
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,520
And is this around Singapore or...?

994
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:26,520
Singapore.

995
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:27,520
Around Singapore.

996
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:28,520
And there's something that happened.

997
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:29,520
It's not fictitious.

998
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:30,520
It's not.

999
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:31,520
We've got pictures as well.

1000
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:33,880
So, you know, and this one I saw, right?

1001
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:37,480
I took a video of it, but it was too high up, man.

1002
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,000
And people say, Chris does an aircraft and I say, get lost.

1003
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:41,400
You know why?

1004
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:45,400
Because the aircraft do not stop and hover.

1005
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:46,760
It was very high up.

1006
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:47,760
Weather balloon...

1007
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:48,760
Any...

1008
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:49,760
What?

1009
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:50,760
In Singapore, freaking weather balloon.

1010
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,760
I mean, don't give me this Roswell controversy thing.

1011
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:54,760
Hey, it was a weather balloon.

1012
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:55,760
No!

1013
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:56,760
No!

1014
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:57,760
No way!

1015
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:58,760
No freaking way.

1016
00:48:58,760 --> 00:48:59,760
It moved and it stopped.

1017
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:00,760
Maybe some Russian thing.

1018
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:01,760
Ugh.

1019
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:02,760
Singapore.

1020
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:03,760
Okay, we'll have a look.

1021
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:04,760
We'll have a look.

1022
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:05,760
I mean, Russian zone, for what?

1023
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:06,760
Really, man.

1024
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:07,760
I mean, I'm not saying that it's a bad thing.

1025
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:08,760
I'm just saying that it's a bad thing.

1026
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:09,760
It's a bad thing.

1027
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:10,760
It's a bad thing.

1028
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:11,760
It's a bad thing.

1029
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:12,760
Yeah.

1030
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:14,360
So I think, you know, look up, man.

1031
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:15,360
Look up.

1032
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:21,760
Because a lot of people just go about their lives every day, you know, and not sensing

1033
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:23,400
things around you, you know.

1034
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,320
Like they read headlines and they don't read anything else, you know.

1035
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:27,800
I think that's really sad.

1036
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,840
Well, some of them don't even read headlines full stop.

1037
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:31,840
Yeah.

1038
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:33,840
They just go to TikTok and watch whatever.

1039
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,520
You don't get your news there, you know.

1040
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:37,520
And watch TikTok.

1041
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:38,520
I mean, yeah.

1042
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:39,840
I mean, I'm on TikTok as well.

1043
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:41,120
I mean, the show is on TikTok.

1044
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,560
There's little reels and stuff that we put up on TikTok.

1045
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:49,500
But the point is is that if I put something up on TikTok, it's going to be the juicy

1046
00:49:49,500 --> 00:49:53,400
parts of each episode that I put up on TikTok, you know.

1047
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:58,680
But it's not about just putting up something for fun that's quirky and stuff.

1048
00:49:58,680 --> 00:49:59,680
That's all fun games.

1049
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:00,900
That's all cool.

1050
00:50:00,900 --> 00:50:05,200
But there's got to be some serious stuff as well that people have got to dive into, man.

1051
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,040
We just can't just, you know.

1052
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:08,400
That's why I like stuff like this.

1053
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:11,320
It makes, I really hope, and I don't know what your plans are.

1054
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:17,520
I mean, this particular book, do you think, especially for the younger generations, do

1055
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,800
you think they'll take away something from this?

1056
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:22,480
Do you think they care?

1057
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:23,480
I hope so.

1058
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:28,960
I mean, I wrote it primarily for a younger audience who may not be aware of what Dr.

1059
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,760
Goh had achieved in his lifetime.

1060
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:33,800
So I hope they will take something away from it.

1061
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,200
But don't you think, you know, and I've had this conversation before with a few of my

1062
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:43,160
guests, those who are academics and stuff, do you think history is something that a lot

1063
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,480
of young today feel is unnecessary for them to know?

1064
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,160
Well, history repeats itself.

1065
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:49,160
I think they should.

1066
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:50,160
Oh, you and I both know that.

1067
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:51,160
Yeah.

1068
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:52,160
You and I, we all know that.

1069
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:53,160
Yeah, yeah.

1070
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:54,160
We all know the value of history.

1071
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:55,160
Yeah, it repeats itself.

1072
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:56,160
We don't learn from it.

1073
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:57,160
Obviously, it repeats itself.

1074
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:58,160
Continuously repeats itself.

1075
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:00,640
It's a bloody vicious cycle.

1076
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:07,040
But a lot of people today, including the folks of these young ones who believe that history

1077
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:13,480
is a waste of time, and you know, my worry is that something so precious as this doesn't

1078
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:14,480
get picked up.

1079
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:15,480
I hope it does.

1080
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:16,480
Personally, I do.

1081
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:17,480
Yeah.

1082
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:21,440
You know, I really hope that, hey, you young people pick it up and go and read something

1083
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:27,520
about someone, you know, that was very pivotal in the history and making of this country,

1084
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:33,420
you know, because it wasn't bloody easy to build Singapore, the ones that the country

1085
00:51:33,420 --> 00:51:36,960
that we, most of us now take for granted.

1086
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:39,560
I know I sound like a damn boomer.

1087
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:40,560
Get the generations right.

1088
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:41,560
I'm an ex-gener.

1089
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:42,560
I'm not a boomer.

1090
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:43,560
Ding-bang.

1091
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:44,560
Okay.

1092
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:50,680
So, you know, you should take this and really, you know, it's a bloody comic book, man.

1093
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:51,680
Check it out, really.

1094
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:55,280
It's pretty fun reading, though, I've got to say.

1095
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:56,960
Pretty fun.

1096
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:01,360
And you know, I really hope the younger ones pick this up, really.

1097
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,440
What are your plans, guys?

1098
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:04,600
Future collaborations?

1099
00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:05,600
Any projects?

1100
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:07,200
What are you planning on doing?

1101
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,160
Well, we are talking about another book.

1102
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:11,160
Yeah.

1103
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:13,160
Historical in nature or what?

1104
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:14,160
Mostly, yes.

1105
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:15,160
It's also historical.

1106
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:16,160
Yeah.

1107
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:17,160
Okay.

1108
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:18,160
Nonfiction to fiction.

1109
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:19,160
It's got to be nonfiction.

1110
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:20,160
Creative nonfiction.

1111
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:21,160
Oh, here we go.

1112
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,520
I tell you, I got to get used to these terms.

1113
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:24,520
No creative nonfiction.

1114
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:25,520
No, they've got creative nonfiction.

1115
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:26,520
They've got nonfiction.

1116
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:27,520
They've got fiction.

1117
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:28,520
Sounds like a conch.

1118
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:29,520
God knows what that is.

1119
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,520
Now that we know we are into comics as well, we might even rope you in.

1120
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:33,520
Oh dear.

1121
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:34,520
You are asking for trouble.

1122
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:42,760
I've got my fingers in too many damn things.

1123
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,040
But really, I hope you guys had fun during the shoot.

1124
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:46,040
Thanks so very much.

1125
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:47,040
Thank you so much for having us.

1126
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:48,040
No, no.

1127
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:49,240
Thank you for being here, man.

1128
00:52:49,240 --> 00:52:52,480
I know most of you guys probably watching this episode probably thinking that, you know,

1129
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:53,760
I don't know what you guys are talking about.

1130
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:54,760
Then I'll tell you what you do.

1131
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:56,560
Go and get this.

1132
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,320
Where is this being sold now?

1133
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,320
At Kinokuniya, probably.

1134
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:01,320
Okay.

1135
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:02,320
Kinokuniya.

1136
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:03,320
Kinokuniya.

1137
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:04,800
I nearly said the bad word.

1138
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:05,800
Sorry.

1139
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:06,800
Kinokuniya.

1140
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:07,800
It's still there.

1141
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:08,800
Anywhere else?

1142
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:09,800
Probably Times.

1143
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:10,800
Times, a bookstore.

1144
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:11,800
Anywhere else?

1145
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:12,800
Amazon.

1146
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:13,800
Amazon.

1147
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:14,800
Go to Amazon.

1148
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:15,800
It's easy for you.

1149
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:16,800
You let your fingers go walking.

1150
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:17,800
There are smaller bookshops.

1151
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:18,800
Yeah, probably.

1152
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:20,800
There are smaller bookshops as well.

1153
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:21,800
Epigram.

1154
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:22,800
Okay.

1155
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:23,800
Epigram.

1156
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:29,360
So get yourself a copy of Go King Sui Singaporean for all seasons.

1157
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:30,360
Check it out.

1158
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:31,360
It's really a fun read.

1159
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:32,360
Yeah.

1160
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:38,400
I hope you guys learn about, you know, this is how the spirit of Dr. Go King Sui living

1161
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:43,920
within these two gentlemen here who are responsible for the creation of this book.

1162
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:48,240
And you know, and people who are really, really talented, people who know what the hell they're

1163
00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:52,280
talking about, they do their research unlike this gentleman in front of you right now.

1164
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:53,800
And the accused of that.

1165
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:58,680
Anyway, so make sure you pick it up, yeah, at all the good bookstores as we mentioned

1166
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:00,240
earlier.

1167
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:06,200
Thank you also for watching 12 episodes of the Chris Hansen conversation.

1168
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:12,760
I'm going to miss doing this for a while, but we will be back and we'll be back likely

1169
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,300
somewhere in mid-March.

1170
00:54:15,300 --> 00:54:18,560
We'll be busy working to give you season three.

1171
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:23,320
This is Chris Hansen together with Chia Sinan and together with Felix Cheung.

1172
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,480
Thank you so very much for spending time with us.

1173
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:27,880
Stay safe.

1174
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,440
And thank you also Gordon Zivades once again.

1175
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:34,120
I'll see you guys again really, really soon.

1176
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:35,120
Until next time.

1177
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:56,960
Bye bye.