Youth gang, youth slain, youth gang to be charged if found guilty, would be charged
for murder or something like that.
Then I saw their faces.
It was the same group of friends that I was supposed to meet at Centre Point that afternoon.
Wow.
I broke out in cold sweat.
Wow.
You have a story to tell and just to let you know, the Chris Hansen conversation, you know,
we're kind of new and as we moved along, I realized that, you know, a couple of verticals
going on and I don't want to confuse people anymore.
So I have a few different series covering different things.
One of the crazy ones though, which I love very much is the one about UFOs and aliens
and ET and all that, you know.
And that one is called Euphora, short for UFO Reveal Asia.
Because you know Asians are into this hantu thing, you know.
The ghost thing.
The ghost thing and they don't really bother about what's happening in our skies maybe.
And I'm the first podcast to do that in Asia in the English medium.
Then we have some more.
A series called I Love My Job, which there are people out there who do jobs that people
don't think about or people who have transitioned from maybe from being an academic or being
someone holding a very high position to something that you do a trade, you know.
Not because they don't have a choice, but because they want to.
Then there's another series, the one that we are on right now for the Chris Hansen conversation.
This one today is called Shine a Light.
How Act.
Exactly.
So when I came up with this idea for Shine a Light, Shine a Light's purpose is to bring
inspiration to people.
Just through my guess, stories.
Stories that have some meaning, some challenge, some difficulties and how you overcame those
and to be where you are today, a good person.
And that if you can do it, so can many others.
That's the purpose for Shine a Light.
So I'm not all just about for my potty mouth linguistics.
I want to have some good out there because community has turned so cynical.
It's driving me up the wall.
So I want to spread a little bit more goodness.
So that's why you are here.
And the funny thing is, just so everyone here knows, welcome to the Chris Hansen conversation.
I've been chatting with my guest and he is a pastor.
I got a pastor in the studio.
Me.
Can you beat that?
Next season I'll have a Catholic priest I can tell you.
And I'm happy to have him here.
He has a story to tell.
He is Leon Chester Stewart.
Welcome to CCB TV.
Thank you Chris for having me here and everybody.
Hello.
Pleasure's all mine man.
Pleasure's all mine.
And you reached out to me some months ago.
Yep.
On Facebook.
Yeah.
And you asked me this question.
You asked me, do we know each other?
Have we met?
Right?
That's right.
Yep.
And I had to, who's this guy man?
Then I went to check your profile and I took a look at your picture the way you look now
and I went, oh I don't think so right?
I just.
Yes I remember your reply.
Yeah.
I don't think we've met.
Yeah.
I don't think we've met.
And then when I came up with this idea for this series called Shine a Light, then I found
out about your story and I went, the first name that appeared in my head was yours.
I said I'm going to ask this guy man.
Then I checked with Bruce Matthew and he said yeah he's got a story to tell you.
You know?
And Bruce is a friend.
Good old Bruce.
Old friend.
Yeah.
Bruce is a friend and Bruce told me yeah, yeah, yeah you should get him on the show.
And I said okay.
And then when I did my research on you and I came across this young picture of you, can
we put it up please Leroy?
That one.
Yeah.
And then guess what?
Immediately it hit me right in the face.
I said I know this dude.
I actually know this guy.
And then I remember a few things.
I don't know whether you recall some things.
Well go ahead and fire away.
Let's see if I can remember.
Okay.
At this age.
Hello Yoni, a year older than me.
Well not that bad.
We'll keep it all quiet for now.
I've told everybody to help.
All my episodes, all I have.
I remember Far East Plaza.
Back in the late 80s if I'm not mistaken.
In the early 90s.
I remember that dude.
That picture.
That young picture of yours.
I remember that guy.
Lots of memories.
Trust me.
Yeah.
I looked at that photo.
Really?
Yeah.
And then you know what?
I remember this guy.
You were kind of broad.
Kind of intimidating.
But we never had an issue.
I've never had an issue with you.
You never had an issue with me.
No, no, no.
Yeah.
But it's so strange.
We didn't talk.
Nope.
Remember?
We see each other.
Yeah.
And you would go, hey.
And I would go, hey.
And then you would walk past and I would walk past.
Yeah.
And we'd do our own thing.
And you were always moving about, looking over your shoulder.
Yep.
And you were always looking for something or someone.
Yeah.
I remember that guy.
Yep.
And I've always told myself, wait a second.
Something's not right here.
So I, honest to goodness, my memory of you is something like that.
Maybe Woodstock.
Oh yeah.
On the rooftop.
The sixth floor of Far East Plaza.
Yeah.
That's right.
Yeah.
And the Y Pub.
Yes.
And then there was the Kiwi Pub also.
Yeah.
Y Pub, the late Traveler Bonnie face.
Yes.
Yep.
Right.
So I encountered you in a few spaces in that place, Far East Plaza, at a time when the
Far East kids were dying down.
Yeah.
It was dying down.
It was between 1983 to 1985.
Yeah, but I met you fleeting meets that is.
Yep.
I think about maybe 87, 86, 87.
Yeah.
So it was dovetailing.
Yeah.
The people that were hanging around there.
Yeah.
It was dovetailing at the time.
But you were still hanging around.
I was.
Yeah.
I remember that.
Okay.
But other than that, Leon, I don't know very much more.
Right.
And I'm glad that I don't because I'd like to hear it from you.
Sure.
The title for today's episode, and I hope you're not going to kill me for this.
I'm sure you won't.
It's that one from gangster to pastor.
That's fine.
You're cool with that?
I'm cool with that because that's the honest truth.
Okay.
Yeah.
Honestly.
Sure.
What were you like back then, man?
Well, I grew up in a good family.
My family was intact, mom, dad, my brothers.
Everything was okay.
We grew up, but it was tough because my father fell ill at a very young age when we were
little kids.
He had a couple of heart attacks.
Right.
And so he got really sick and he couldn't work.
So my mom had to be the main breadwinner when we were kids, when we were in, I think, primary
school.
And I remember we had to actually get welfare, man.
Yeah.
We had to actually go on welfare.
Thank God for St. Vincent de Paul.
They helped us.
Right.
Yeah.
And I remember that we also had to get school books and pocket money from the school.
A lot of people came forward to help us because of the situation.
And because between my two other brothers and myself, I was the very curious one, the
one that's always like to try anything and everything.
And so I would be the very outstanding guy and I'd be doing a lot of stuff.
And so I'll always get in trouble, always.
There was one incident that happened when I was about eight years old where I actually
destroyed, I literally destroyed my mom's fridge because I hung on the door and I swung
on the door and the whole fridge came down.
And she chased me around the house with a cleaver outside of the HDB block on the ground
floor.
We were staying in Margaret Drive back then.
The flats don't exist anymore.
So she chased me around the cleaver outside and the neighbors all came running out trying
to catch her.
Police cars came.
The old Volkswagen.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The old people.
The black and whites.
That's right.
They came around and I dashed back into the house.
I hid under the bed in the room and the cops had to basically tell my mom, put the cleaver
down, put the cleaver down, you know, that kind of thing.
And that was the start of me being too adventurous.
And eventually as we grew up, you know, my mom was always on my case, always comparing
me with other people, other friends or cousins, you know, why can't you be like that guy?
Why couldn't you, you know, do this and do that?
So I began to actually have a very bad relationship with my mom.
And so this went on for many years as I grew up.
We eventually moved to Bedok, not very far from here.
And so anyway, yeah, and I think it was at the age of 12, my PSLE years, yeah, the year,
the first PSLE year where things really got out of hand, where I was actually not, you
know, really fooling around, you know, I was not a bad kid.
I was not.
I just that I was very curious and like I said, I like to do anything and try anything.
And so I remember in primary six, I met this guy, I'm going to keep his name quiet, right?
Because he's passed on, you know, unfortunately.
Anyway, he introduced me to my first cigarette in the age of 12.
And I took a puff.
And I think that was the turning point.
I would say that was a turning point.
Why?
Because I kind of liked it.
And I began to buy my own cigarettes, you know, back those days, they used to have the
seven sticks in one pack.
Yep, seven sticks.
Lucky Strike.
That's right.
And then all the small little cigarettes, you know, and so yeah, we used to buy that.
And I think I didn't do very well.
I remember that year.
And I flopped my PSLE.
Which school are you from?
St. Andrews.
I was in St. Andrews Junior School.
But you were living in Bedok.
That's right.
And you went all the way to Potong Basih.
Oh dear.
Yeah.
So anyway, so that was the beginning.
When I failed my PSLE.
Of course, my parents were really ballistic.
They had gone ballistic with me.
How can you fail?
You know, things like that.
But I had become so hardened already at such a young age.
And then I remember I retained in primary six to retake my PSLE.
And by then I was already 13.
Okay.
Right.
And that was my first foray into Faiz Plaza.
Wow.
What was very interesting.
If you can remember, there was this building that is next to the old Lido Theater.
The old Lido Theater.
I think it was called International Building.
Yes.
It's still there.
Yes.
Yeah.
There was a Burger King.
Yes.
At the basement.
Right.
Okay.
So I remember this friend of mine who introduced me to my first cigarette.
He says, hey, you got to follow me down on Saturday and come and meet a bunch of guys.
So I said, oh, okay.
You know, Saturday we don't go to school.
So I followed him down and I remember as clear as day walking into that place.
And in those days you could smoke in those restaurants.
Oh, hell yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
And I remember I'm sitting, going in and I was looking around and it was filled with
smoke.
And I saw this group of men, young men.
They were definitely older than me.
And so this guy, my friend brings me in.
He sits me down and he says, you sit here.
I'm going to introduce you to some people.
And I said, okay.
So I sat down and he introduced me to some of the guys.
And then he actually introduced me to the leader of this group.
All right.
Now I want to not say anything about what group this is.
Sure.
But it was a secret society.
Right.
Which I didn't know back then.
Okay.
Because I was so new and so.
You were only 13.
Yeah, exactly.
So what happened was I met this guy.
All right.
He goes by the name of Mike.
Okay.
And then he introduced me, I know, introduces himself to me.
He's tall.
He's big.
And he says, okay, you're going to hang with me today.
We got to go over the Far East Plaza.
Do you know where Far East Plaza is?
I said, no, I don't know where it is.
You know?
So anyway, I remember sitting at this booth in the Burger King.
Right.
And there were these machetes hidden in the booth.
Yeah.
In the booth like this.
They could slot it behind.
Slot it behind.
Yeah.
And I was really naive.
And I said, what are machetes doing in a booth?
Before I know it, they had gathered it and they were actually going to Far East Plaza.
For a gang clash.
Yeah, for a gang clash, for a fight.
Right.
And I remember this guy, Mike, he held my hand.
He says, you're going to stick by my side all the way.
And we used the, there was this underpass that was, we were able to get across.
Yeah.
Where the, it was called Tang, CK Tangs back then.
CK Tang, yeah.
That's right.
And we walked to Far East Plaza.
We sat outside.
It was Wendy's restaurant back then.
Yeah.
With these steel chairs and all that.
Yeah.
And so I remember within a couple of minutes as we stood there, the fight broke out.
And I was just standing there and I was watching people running up and down and things being
thrown at each other.
I didn't see the weapons at all, but I remember seeing a guy getting beaten up and I froze.
As I stood there as a 13 year old, I froze and I saw the amount of violence that was
happening, you know, and the strange thing was as much as I froze, I kind of enjoyed
it.
It was really, really dark, really weird.
I stood there and says, wow, you know, and Mike looks at me and says, you don't go anywhere.
You just stay here by my side.
Of course I was, I was panicky inside and I was like really frightened, but he gave
me this assurance, you know.
And true enough, his gang over, you know, basically they overcame the other gang and
they all ran helter skelter.
And so his gang was left behind.
And then we just walked away.
We literally just walked away.
Now I won't go into great detail of what happened, but it was bloodshed.
No one died, but it was bloodshed because I saw a few of the victims from the other
gang got cuts and all that kind of stuff.
And I remember we walked all the way down to Newton Circus, the hawker center.
And this Mike and his, and his, and his, I think his right hand and his left hand man,
they bought a round of beers for all these men, you know, and I, and I, and I just, again,
sat with him and he looked at me and says, so you ready?
And I was like, ready for what?
You know, you're ready to be part of us.
So I said, can I think about it?
Because you know, I'm only 13 and then my friend who brought me there, he was also at
the table and Mike told him, he says, you bring this guy, this young man home.
And so we walked away and we went back home.
But that incident, I think sort of crafted the path ahead because somehow there was this
sort of drawing power in her.
Some glorification.
Yeah.
You know, and it felt good.
It's a real dark thing to feel, you know?
And I remember a week later we went back again to Far East Plaza and Mike was there and the
rest of the guys.
And so they asked me, you know, you want to hang with us?
You want to be with us?
And I said, yeah, sure.
You know, if you don't mind, you said, of course, you know, and the more I, the more
I hung out with them, the more I saw the power, I would say power inverted commas that they
carried, the strength that they carried and it felt good, you know, being with them.
And that's where I guess I became very egotistical.
Sort of I felt this bravado within me to like, you know, anyone can come and try me kind
of thing.
And I became very daring.
And at the same time, I became very rebellious.
Then listen to mom.
Dad was really not well and that was easy with me because that was really nice to me.
I mean, in this condition, he I guess he knew that his time was coming soon, stuff like
that, you know.
Well, anyway, he hung on for a pretty long time until I was 21 before he passed on.
But by then, I know he just didn't have a say to keep up with the action that I was
involved in.
But mom was always in my case until I won't come back home at night.
And I remember at the age when I was 13, came 14 years old.
I remember I walked into the principal's office and I said, I'm done studying.
Yeah, I just walked in.
I didn't even knock his door.
I walked in and he was stunned, you know, and he said, you know, you can't do that.
I need to call your parents.
I said, I'll go ahead and call them.
I can't give a damn.
Go ahead, you know.
And I was so steep in in the gang.
I mean, I was so deep in it that I had actually sort of booked myself up where they consider
me a fighter.
Where if there was a if there was a fight that's going to take place, you'll be activated.
Yeah, that kind of thing.
When you left school, when he went into the principal's office, were you with secondary
one?
Yeah, I was in secondary.
I was in secondary two as I had retained.
I also retained again in secondary school.
Right.
Yeah.
And by then I lost my interest in studying.
And so I remember towards the end of being 14, the end of that year.
That's when I walked in and I says, no, I'm to hell with studying.
You know, it broke my mom's heart.
I remember she broke down.
She cried and found the principal's office.
But by then, my heart was so hard like a rock.
And I didn't really care about anyone but just myself.
And so anyway, I left school and I continued with this gang.
I continued doing a lot of things, going around and progressing in fights.
And then girls came.
When power comes to women, you know.
But at such a young age, I had a lot of girls who came around me, you know.
At 14?
Yes.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
And so I remember, I mean, it was really, really crazy.
School girls, I won't mention which school, but they will be coming up to me and trying
to be frisky and stuff like that.
At such a young age, it was really, I was really on the path of destruction.
I think I was just so enveloped in this power and this glory that I had, you know.
So many people were afraid of me at such a young age.
And then unfortunately, I remember there was a major fight in center, not center point,
in Far East Plaza where everyone, Mike and all, just ran.
It was really huge because there was a lot of bloodshed.
It was another fight that took place.
And I remember it was so bad that we were carrying pages back then.
And a message came into the pager.
It was a code which says, lie low, don't come out.
We wouldn't know when we looked at the number, you know.
And so I remember we took cover and we stayed away from FISE for a bit because by then,
there was this huge operations that the, you know, the, what do you call it?
The ANGCIA, the Red?
Yeah, yeah.
Which is the SOC they call it now.
Yeah.
The Black Maria basically.
That's right, yeah.
They were running and they were running up all these secret society members and stuff
like that.
So I remember lying low.
Right.
Really low.
But unfortunately, by then, I think it was 1985, 86, yeah, 85.
Where I had to find a job because I had left school, you know, and I didn't do anything.
So I worked for a family and they were good.
They were fiberglass boat makers.
And I didn't have any proper educational qualifications because I left in secondary too, you know.
I retained.
And so I remember working for this family and that was the first time I was exposed
to drugs.
Yeah.
With this family?
Yeah.
No way.
Yeah, yeah.
The sort of people that hire you as a family.
Yes.
And the sons were the ones I was working with.
And yeah, so they introduced me to marijuana.
And then I got really hooked into it.
Okay.
At the age of 15.
And I started popping pills and trying everything and anything under the sun.
And it just carried on right through even to the army.
Yeah.
But anyway, coming back to 1985, 86, 87, a very interesting thing happened in 1987.
I'm not sure if you can remember this.
It was in the news.
Centerpoint murder.
Oh.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, I do.
Okay.
Very much so.
Well, let me just have a sip of your coffee.
Well, let me tell you.
Well, let me forget, man.
None of us forgot that.
Yeah.
So 1987.
Yeah.
By then, I had joined another gang.
Okay.
Because I lost track of the rest of the guys.
They all went to hiding because of this big fight.
Right.
So for many years, from 85, 86, it was, I don't know where these guys had gone.
So you mean Mike and all?
Yeah, Mike and...
They disappeared?
Yeah, they disappeared.
Off the grid?
Until today.
Huh?
Yes.
No way.
Yes.
Until today, I do not know where they are.
Until today.
They disappeared?
Yes.
Wow.
Yeah.
Now it's 2023.
Yeah, huh.
I do not know where they are until today.
There were six of them.
The main guys of the group.
Really.
So there must have been really something bad, right?
Yeah.
Really, really something bad because there's no trace of them, you know, and back then,
you have no social media, so you can't track them.
Yeah.
And we didn't have handphones back then.
Right.
So I remember, yeah, lying low, really bad.
And then in 1987, a very interesting thing happened just before the Centerpoint murder.
Right.
I was at home.
All right.
And I was about to go out and meet this new bunch of guys, friends that I've made, and
they're also from the gangs.
And it was a Saturday morning.
And so I remember putting my shoes on.
And it was a HDB flat, regular HDB flat, front door facing.
And I got up.
Just about to go.
My mom comes right in front of the door.
She stands with her hands right across the door, blocking the door, and she says, you
are not getting out of this house.
So I said, Mom, you have never grounded me before.
Why are you doing it now?
She says, I'm telling you, you're not leaving this house right now.
So I said, why?
Because God told me so.
And I was like, what?
Now my mom has been a Christian for a long time.
Okay.
So it's like the devil and God living in the house.
Me the devil, my mom God.
Okay.
So she did exactly.
She said that she went, she went, God told me.
And I was like, huh?
What do you mean God told you?
You know, she says, yes, God told me not to let you out the house.
So of course I got very angry.
And I just scolded her with all sorts of expletives, English, Hokkien, Malay, the works, you know.
And she just stood there.
And she said, if you are going to leave this house, it is over my dead body.
Of course I was not going to kill my mom.
Okay.
Well, thankfully I got so angry with her that I stomped off into my bedroom, slammed the
door, blasted my music, took out my cigarettes and you know, just puffed away.
And I was just so angry, but I knew I couldn't do anything because that's one way out.
Right.
So I stayed in that room.
All right.
And I stayed there the rest of the day and then of course I came out later on in the
evening, you know, and then just did my own thing within the house.
And she did not let me go out at all.
She really literally took the house keys and I really couldn't leave the house.
So anyway, that was a Saturday.
So I'm thinking to myself, oh man, how am I going to meet these guys?
Because I told him I'll meet them at Centerpoint.
Right.
Okay.
We were supposed to meet at I think 1pm.
Right.
So Saturday came, gone.
Sunday came and gone.
Monday came and gone.
Tuesday came and gone.
And I remember it was a Wednesday and I was sitting down in the hall and my parents, they
subscribed to the straight slimes and I brought the papers in and when I flipped it open,
I got a shock of my life.
Huge print.
It said something like in bold, like, you know, in bold letters, it said something like
youth gang, youth slain, youth gang to be charged if found guilty, will be charged for
murder or something like that.
Right.
Then I saw their faces.
It was the same group of friends that I was supposed to meet at Centerpoint that afternoon.
Wow.
I broke out in cold sweat.
Wow.
Yeah.
I was really stunned and I remember my mom was at the office and I called my mom over
the home phone and I said, mom, did you see the newspapers this morning?
Yeah.
She says, yes, I did.
And I know that those are your friends because she has met them before.
Right.
And I remember I just went silent on the phone and then she says, are you there?
I said, yes, mom, I'm here.
As she said, I told you, God told me not to let you out of the house.
Do you understand?
And I couldn't answer her.
I was dumbstruck because a lot was going on in my mind.
I mean, God spoke to her to tell her not to let me out of the house.
And then I see these guys in the papers.
Right.
And I just couldn't accept it.
I was so defiant.
I told mom, I said, no, this is rubbish.
This is pure rubbish.
How can God tell you what's going to happen?
That was how dark and how hardened I'd become.
Right.
And she says, well, I told you so, son.
You just have to listen.
And I remember I just hung up the phone without saying bye to her.
And I was so defiant.
I had to find my way out to go and see these guys.
So I decided to leave the house and I was trying to see who I can reach out to to find
out what's going on.
And then I remember I had a page on my pager of a number.
I had to return the call to this number.
And it was one of my friends, another friend who knew this group.
And he says, listen, don't go out.
Stay at home, lie low, because you're part of that gang.
Anything can happen.
But I said, but I was not there.
He says, no, but they can always implicate and say, you know, things.
You have a solid alibi.
Yeah.
But I said, yeah, exactly.
I said, I was at home, you know, and I got proof.
Then he said, whatever it is, just stay away.
You know, so he hung up the phone.
And that was 1987.
And that thing happened.
And I remember I just decided to, I was actually quite frightened.
I actually went, okay, this is murder.
This is, you don't play a fool.
You know, this is getting serious.
And here my mom thought that things would change for the better.
I saw a wake up, you know, and, and, and.
You mean you didn't?
No, man.
Oh, come on.
Yeah.
So anyway, national service, national service came a calling, right?
National service came a calling.
And I remember, went into the army and I had the best time of my life in the army because
I was one of the very rare enlistees of national service that served my whole two years, just
playing rugby for the Singapore Armed Forces Sports Association, SAFSA.
Yeah, exactly.
I played for army formation.
Ah, okay.
Okay.
So, so I was very blessed in that way.
So but, you know, I was still downhill in national service.
I was still smoking dope.
You were, but there would have been regular urine checks and stuff.
Yeah, but I don't know.
Because I was never in the unit, I was always out.
Oh, no wonder.
Yeah, I did a lot of rubbish in the army.
I was still, I was still very much involved in fights and the gangs and all that kind
of stuff.
Yeah.
And then, you know, it just, it just escalated.
I carried on in the army.
I already finished my army in 1990.
I went out working, but I was still doping and I was living a life of the prodigal son,
really, literally.
I was partying every night.
I was drunk, falling down, stupid, doing a lot of things.
At Hard Rock Cafe.
Everywhere, you know, everywhere.
I was stealing motorcycles to get the joyride to go home.
Yeah, like I'm so drunk, you know, and I don't have cab fare because I've blown up my money
on booze.
Yeah.
Look for some motorcycle.
Right.
I've got a hot wire, the bike, you know, things like that, and then fall over the bike, you
know.
So I did a lot of rubbish during that period of time, I remember, after the army.
And then I remember I got a really good job in 1992.
Yeah.
Working with crocodiles.
Hang on a second.
Can we put that one up, please?
Check that one out.
Yeah, that's me and Mr. Crocodile.
So you're working on a crocodile, on a crocodile farm.
Yeah, in Jurong.
In Jurong.
It was called the Jurong Crocodile Paradise.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So I was working on a crocodile farm.
Yeah.
So I was working on a crocodile farm, in Jurong.
In Jurong.
It was called the Jurong Crocodile Paradise.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I remember that one.
Yeah.
So I remember saw this small little ad in the papers, real tiny little ad in straight
time.
Right.
Looking for, and I remember, crocodile performer.
I was like, crocodile performer?
You mean a crocodile can perform?
English is pretty bad here.
I think they're looking for someone to work with crocodiles.
But anyway, I give them a call and they ask me to come down.
Right.
So I came for the interview and then I found out what it was all about.
You basically were a wrangler.
You work in the crocodile farm.
You look after them.
You feed them.
You're like a zookeeper.
Right.
But then they also had what they call the crocodile show.
Okay.
And I didn't know what that was.
And then so I sat down, I remember, and they showed me a video of the show.
I was like, wow.
You mean you get to actually literally do shows.
You dance with them.
You put your head in their mouths, you know, things like that.
And you walk on top of them.
So it was like, I mean, I'm an adrenaline junkie.
So when I saw that, I was like, oh, this looks cool.
You know, this is, yeah.
So I accepted the job and I remember, yeah, and then I began working there and I was still
doing my, I was still doping on the site, you know, I became quiet.
And then I remember I was so bold and I spoke to one of the guys there.
I said, hey, you guys, have you ever smoked marijuana before?
Then he looks around and oh, he's like, you got?
So, man, you know, and that was the start of another season.
Right.
So these colleagues of mine, we were blowing stuff off every other day.
We were getting so stoned going and doing these shows with the crocodiles.
I mean, we were flying, you know, and then we will buy Chinese rice wine, you know, and
then we'll drink, you know, they call it bonkilo.
That's right.
Bonkilo.
So it's like this Chinese rice wine, then we'll drink it, get so high, we'll smoke
and we started taking tablets and so we were flying.
You guys were still working with the crocodiles.
Yes.
Going into their pens, catching them.
Sometimes you have to transfer them from one sector to another sector.
Yeah.
And you're stoned and you're doing that?
Yes.
Wow.
Yeah.
So it was nuts, man.
Yeah, it was really nuts.
And so that was 1992, I remember, 1992.
Oh, that was a crazy year.
But there's a glint in your eye when you talk about this, you know.
Yeah.
I mean, it brings back crazy memories, you know, it brings back crazy memories.
It was really, it was actually a very egotistical job.
You know why?
Because the Japanese tourists, the girls, the Europeans, you know, they would come around
and say, oh, you're so brave.
And they were like, oh, okay, Tarzan's here, that's Jane, you know.
Yeah, I mean, we had that kind of really, really egotistical attitude, you know.
And I mean, of course, we made a lot of friends with these girls.
Yeah, pretty sure.
We went out, we partied.
It was really crazy.
Yeah.
And so we carried on doing this and that was all the way.
I remember in January of 1993, where my heart stopped, not physically.
Okay.
I was captured by my now wife.
Yeah.
So anyway, what was very interesting was in 1993, I met my wife literally at the front
door of my mom's home.
I tell you why, because my younger brother, he had a girlfriend back then.
And they were good friends from primary school.
My wife and this girl.
And so my younger brother was visiting my mom's place that particular evening with this
girlfriend of his.
And so my wife, they made contact after, I think, a very long time, I think since primary
school, they decided to meet.
And so she invited my wife to come over to my mom's home.
And I was there at my mom's home also.
And so that's why my younger brother went to pick her up from the Bedok MRT station and
brought her back home.
So I was sitting down in the hall, just chilling on my mom after dinner.
And my wife stands at the door and I go like, stop the press.
Who's that?
You know?
Yeah.
So I mean, I do believe it was love at first sight.
I do believe it was love at first sight.
Sounds like it.
Yeah.
Because I was like, wow, who is this chick?
You know?
And so anyway, yeah.
And so anyway, so that was 1993.
And it was a whirlwind romance.
Within six months, we got married.
Okay.
And we were dating.
And in 1993, you must have been 24.
Yeah, that's right.
And she was 20.
Okay.
Who incidentally, I know your brother-in-law.
He stayed over in my house, my mother's house, for a particular year.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Well, guess what?
His sister is the one I married.
Yeah, well, I kind of...
Oh, wow.
It was like really crazy.
Because we were classmates also.
Okay.
Yeah.
And so he wasn't too happy that I was hooking up with his sister.
I mean, that was many years ago anyway.
So yeah, so anyway, when she met me, eventually she found out I was doping and stuff like
that, you know?
And I think she liked...
The reason why she wasn't so bothered back then was because number one, she was young.
She was 20.
And this is what she told me, right?
This is what she told me.
She said that she kind of liked my long hair.
I had hair back then.
She liked my long hair.
Okay, hang on, hang on.
Can we put up the one with the bike?
People got to see this, man.
Because right now, everyone's seeing him without hair.
And I see that's Leon Stewart on his Harley Davidson.
Yeah.
That's not mine actually.
That's my brother's Harley.
My other brother's Harley.
It's not one that you actually stole, right?
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
So anyway, yeah, so anyway, yeah, so she said she liked me because of my hair and stuff
like that.
So anyway, I think it was also probably she liked my looks.
Well, whatever it is.
Yeah.
Now, obviously, we got married very young.
And I remember at that time, I didn't know this, but the Central Narcotics Bureau were
on to me.
Oh, yeah.
Apparently they were sort of, they had a sting operation watching me and a few others, but
I was like the main guy they were looking at.
Right.
So anyway, I remember, at that point in time, they had taken a lot of photographs.
They visited the crocodile farm and they took lots of photos of me and the rest of the guys.
So that was 1992.
So for many years, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, all the way to 97.
So I was still doing a lot of stuff.
I left the farm.
I left the farm in 1996 because things were not doing too well.
The economy had affected the crocodile farm and they were going bust slowly.
Yeah.
Which they eventually did.
Yeah, they eventually did.
So I remember I was offered another job in logistics.
And so I left the farm and I moved to this company somewhere in Clementi and I was working
logistics in the warehouse.
And I didn't know that the Central Narcotics Bureau was still tracking me.
For so many years.
Yeah, for so many years.
They were tracking me.
And finally it came, what happened was in 1997 while I was at work, phone call came
in in the office.
And the phone call was basically my wife on the phone, very hysterical.
She was screaming at me.
She says, the central, the CNB, the CNB, they're in our house right now.
They're in our house right now.
I said, huh?
Yes, you brought this shit upon us.
They are there now in my house.
And then she slammed the phone down.
And I just broke out in cold sweat again.
So the murder thing years ago, I got away.
So this time around, okay, now CNB, that kind of thing.
And I remember I rushed out of the office.
I told my boss, I said, I got to rush back home.
I have family emergencies.
I just go.
And I was riding a motorcycle.
So I jumped on my bike.
I sped all the way back home.
And then I parked my bike away from my block at a distance.
By then I had moved to Woodlands.
I was staying in the Woodlands.
And I remember being all stealthy, looking out and making sure there's no one around.
And then I remember as I was looking around, I just want to make sure that there's no unmarked
vehicles and stuff like that around police and all that.
And I went to-
So you're nice and spacey with this QX, right?
Yeah, exactly.
And then I went to scour the whole car park just to make sure.
And finally, I think after an hour, I decided to go up to my home.
And when I went up, my mom-in-law was at home and she opened the door.
She said, hey, hi, Leon.
Hey, there were a bunch of people that were here looking for you.
So I said, oh, what do they look like?
Oh, they flashed their police pass at me.
So, okay, how many of them?
There were five of them.
So I said, okay, what did they do?
They said they wanted to come in and look for stuff.
I'm not sure what stuff they're looking at.
So in my heart, I was so scared because I actually had some stuff in my room, in my
bedroom.
Right.
And I knew exactly where I'd put it.
So anyway, I went into the bedroom.
I looked at the cupboard, my wardrobe and I went, oh, please be there.
Please be there.
So I put my hand on top of the wardrobe and I was like, oh, the stuff was still there.
Right.
And then I went, hang on a minute.
If they came to search the house.
How come they didn't find it in the most obvious location?
Exactly.
Right.
So I asked my mom-in-law, I said, did you bring them into the room?
Yes.
Where were you standing?
I said, where you're standing right now?
They asked me to stand there and they climbed on top of the wardrobe.
I said, they climbed?
Yes, they did.
And what happened after that?
They came down.
I said, okay.
And then, then they went to your toilet, they checked the system.
They checked your bamboo holders on the outside.
They checked the main bathroom, the toilet.
They checked everywhere.
Right.
And then what happened?
But then they said nothing.
They just gave me this name card and said, when you get back home to give them a call.
Now, come on.
How can they not?
This is our police force.
Yeah.
They are so good.
Yeah.
I just didn't register.
How can they miss this out?
It was a package.
Yeah.
All right.
A package like, you know, the rolling cigarettes, the tobacco.
Yeah.
That kind of package.
Yeah.
The drum.
That's right.
Yeah.
How can they not see it?
But anyway, I remember I took the card from my mom-in-law and I called the police officer
and I gave him my, oh, I gave him a mouthful.
It's a stupid thing to do.
I even said, you want me to do a urine test, I'll come down, you know.
I was so arrogant.
Yes.
I was so dumb.
It was ridiculous, you know.
Yeah.
And I was high.
Because.
Oh, when you called, you were high.
Yeah.
Because I'm always, I'm always smoking.
Right.
I'm always hitting.
So I, yeah.
So I know.
So basically it was rubbish coming out of my mouth.
Right.
You know, mouth engaged before brain does.
Yeah.
That kind of thing.
Yeah.
So anyway, the guy was very pleasant.
The officer on the airline, he says, listen, I don't need you.
I really need what I wanted.
Thank you very much for calling us back.
And he hangs up on me.
Right.
So, of course, eventually I shared with my mom what happened.
Uh huh.
And my mom said, second time.
Second time.
It's kind of impossible.
Exactly.
I mean, it's like hidden.
It wasn't even hidden.
Yes.
It's in plain sight.
Exactly.
And she goes, second time.
Now, of course, at that point of time, my wife thought, oh, okay, this is going to be
the turning point for my husband.
He's going to change, right?
Please tell me you did.
No, man.
That was 1997, I remember.
Oh, man.
I became worse.
I literally, and I'm okay to share this publicly because my mom, I'm sorry, my wife knows.
I had multiple affairs after that.
Okay.
My marriage was really going crazy.
You know, I mean, not my marriage.
It was me going crazy.
I was having multiple affairs.
And you know, yeah, I am thinking my wife is stupid, but oh, man, she's smart.
She knew everything.
She knew what was going on.
She knew that I was having these affairs.
Any kids yet at the time?
I had, I had.
Already my daughter, and she was, she was, I think, five or six years old.
She was born in 94.
Yeah.
So anyway, yeah, so it was really blatant, what I was doing.
I didn't respect her.
You know, I thank God I didn't hit her, but you know, I just didn't treat her well as
I'm supposed to as a husband, you know, that kind of thing.
And so I was just partying every night, getting stoned, getting high, having multiple affairs
and things like that.
And it went on and on and on.
And I remember, and this was all related to me after my encounter with God, and I'll come
to that shortly.
Sure.
So what happened was apparently my mom had always been telling my wife, listen, hang
in there.
Let's pray for him.
And my wife is not a Christian at all, you know.
I got to stop you there, man.
Sure.
You know, I'm going to rewind back to when we started this conversation, man.
When you said that your mom used to love to compare you to other people, right?
That probably got you kind of riled up, right?
The sense to want to prove something, to validate yourself, I'm pretty sure.
That probably would be one of the reasons that made you also have that rebellious streak
eventually.
Yes.
And then as the course of this conversation continued, your mom became that person who
believed with so much faith that God had told her to warn you.
Yes.
And then still now, as what you just said, she is the one that still has faith in you.
I mean, the irony.
I guess mom's love is a love we could never understand, you know.
And I remember her telling, and like I said, it was related to me by my wife and my mom,
that my mom was saying, listen, don't leave him.
Don't walk out.
You know, he will change.
We must pray.
God will answer our prayers.
Wow.
That kind of stuff.
I mean, wow, right?
Yeah.
And what was very interesting was because of my mom's faith and my mom being my mom,
very strong-willed woman, she began to share about this character, this person called Jesus
to her, you know, and she was actually literally talking about the gospel to my wife.
And my wife slowly began to believe.
But your wife was not a Christian.
She came from a Roman Catholic family, but she was never interested in religion.
And you were not originally Roman Catholic?
No.
Okay.
Yeah.
So this was going on behind the scenes and I didn't know.
So anyway, I remember I just carried on doing what I was doing, partying, the prodigal son.
And it went on until the year 2000, in January.
We had our second child, our son, Gino.
And he was born on the 28th of January, 2000.
By the way, my daughter is born on the 20th of January, 1994.
Yes, six years apart.
And I know it's God.
And I do believe it is God.
So what happened was he had contracted a very bad flu virus as a baby.
Don't ask me how it happened.
And so anyway, he had to be admitted into the hospital.
And the doctor said, listen, we can't administer any kind of medication because he's a baby.
He's an infant.
We just hope that he will pull through.
Now when you hear something like that, and a baby, right?
Pull through.
So what's the other option?
He's not going to make it.
So I remember standing in the hospital and looking at his crib because he had all these
machines attached to him.
And it was such a painful sight.
I know.
I've been through that.
And so anyway, I stood there and I remember looked up at the ceiling and I said, you know,
if there is a God up there, please save my son.
I remember saying that.
And I was just so egotistical in thinking that, you know, I think he will hear me because
I'm demanding that he will hear me.
You know, all the pride and all the ego.
And anyway, so what happened was we went back home because the doctor said, listen, you
know, point you guys hang around here and go back home.
If anything changes, we'll call you and you come back down here.
And this and so of course, we left and my wife, I remember driving over that drive back
home was like the longest drive.
She was silently weeping next to me, you know, and I was controlling my tears and we were
so broken because of the situation, you know, and we just didn't talk because here I am,
you know, still partying and doing all sorts of rubbish out there.
Right.
And then, you know, suddenly there's this crisis.
And so anyway, we reached back home and my home phone rang.
Yeah, it was my younger brother and my younger brother had become a Christian.
He had become a Christian.
And so he picked up the phone.
I mean, he called me and he says, listen, can I come over with mom and we pray for you
and your family, you know, and lift up this crisis to God.
And I was so arrogant, I turned and told him, listen, you can bring any God you want to
bring.
Just come, you know, no big deal.
So he came and then they sat down together in a circle with my mom and they began praying
and I was so disrespectful instead of joining them in silence or, you know, just just being,
you know, yeah, Reverend.
Yeah.
I was arms folded.
Really?
Okay.
Sorry about that.
No, that's okay.
Neighbors doing something funny upstairs.
That's all right.
As long as not chopping up anybody.
So yeah, so anyway, I was so arrogant, I was slouching, you know, arms folded, looking
at everybody and like, what's going on, man?
What's taking so long, you know?
And then finally, he comes to the end of his prayer, you know, he says, amen.
And I'm like, okay, you know, and then he, it was quite late.
I remember in the evening, it was about 10 plus 11.
So he said, listen, I got to go back home now, you know?
So I said, okay.
So he gets up and he walks to the door and just as about to exit my front door, he turns
around and he points at me, points at me, literally points at me, you know, and like,
nobody points at me.
Yeah.
I was so, I was actually about to grab his hand, you know, I thought what was he going
to do?
And he points at me, he goes, listen, trust God, he will heal your son.
And like, oh, okay.
If you say so.
So, I mean, I thought- And despite all that, you were still so cynical,
huh?
Yeah, yeah.
I was not interested one bit, you know, with what he had to offer.
But you were concerned about your baby.
Yeah.
But the thing was because my mind was so messed up.
My heart was so hard.
But everything is my way of the highway.
This is your baby's son.
Exactly.
That's why- And you were still hardened.
Yes.
Despite- Exactly.
I was still so arrogant.
Okay.
You know, and so I remember he puts his hand down and he says, just believe.
I said, okay, okay.
You know, so he goes off.
So me and my wife went to bed, didn't talk much at all.
We went to bed.
Next morning we woke up at about seven, seven-ish thereabouts.
We went back to the hospital and I remember walking into the ward and I was surprised
because I looked at my son's crib.
He was in this transparent container, right?
And he was in this container and it's like, hang on a minute.
The day before he's got no machines attached to him, why are all the machines removed?
Why is the respirator removed?
Right.
And I was like, I got angry.
I stomped out.
I went straight to the nurse's desk.
I banged the desk and said, what is the meaning of this?
My son, you took all the machines off him.
How is he going to breathe and blah, blah, blah.
I just, just shot my mouth off and everything else.
Yeah.
And, oh my goodness, it was such an embarrassing scene for my wife, poor wife, you know, she
was like, stop it.
Stop behaving yourself.
Stop misbehaving yourself.
Stop acting like an idiot.
And then I said, don't hold me, don't hold me because she kept holding my arm.
And then the nurses kept saying, calm down, sir, or we'll call security.
So I said, you better explain yourself to me right now.
So a senior nurse comes out and she looks at me, she says, Mr. Stewart, at four o'clock
this morning, your son began to move in the crib and he looked agitated and he was beginning
to make a crying distress sound, you know?
And so we thought he was hungry.
We thought he was thirsty, wanted to see what we can do.
We tried to feed him.
He didn't want to eat, you know, he didn't want to drink milk and stuff like that.
So I made a decision to remove the machines that were attached to his body and the respirator
to see how he would respond.
After we removed all of that, we found out that he could breathe on his own and we are
just as puzzled as you are.
And I was like, oh.
Number three.
Exactly.
But here I have a whole horde of public parents all around because they were all looking at
me.
You're making a commotion.
Yeah, exactly.
And it was, oh, you can see that, you know, they had that killer look, you know, like,
we can just feel like smashing you up, you know, you crazy Xiao Ang Mo kind of thing.
So I remember I hung my head down there, oh, okay, thank you.
You know, and I walked away.
Right.
And my wife, I heard my wife say, you idiot, you know.
Yeah.
So I walked back in and I sat down and I looked at his crib.
No, can't be.
It can't be what Oliver said last night.
Can't be.
No.
You know, I kept telling myself, right.
He said, believe, you'll be healed.
Right.
And then as I was wondering what happened, I hear this voice by the side of my right
ear.
Now, in that ward, it was a high dependency ward.
There are no adults there except me and my wife and outside the nurses station.
Right.
These are the only adults that were there.
Okay.
So this voice right next to my ear said these words, Leon, after all that you have done,
I still love you.
I spun around.
I went, what was that?
I just, then my wife was, what's wrong?
I said, I just heard somebody speak to me.
And she says, no, I didn't hear anything.
I said, I know what I heard.
Someone spoke to me.
And then I remember I began to feel a bit frightened.
I had goosebumps.
And I kept looking in this direction because that's where the voice came from.
But behind me were all layers of babies in the cribs.
Some were the incubators and you know, because it's a high dependency ward.
Right.
So I remember I shifted my chair nearer to my wife.
So the crib is now here.
My wife is here.
I'm here.
And I'm looking in the direction where the voice came from.
Right.
And then again, the second time, but this time between my wife and I, the same voice.
So gentle, very loving, very concerned.
Leon, after all that you have done, I still love you.
And I shouted again, there!
Did you hear?
Right between the two of us.
She says, no, I did not hear anything.
And I was like, can't be.
I know what I heard.
And I was sober.
That was a beautiful thing.
I was not high.
I was not, I did not abuse any substance from the night before.
You completely lose it.
Completely.
I knew exactly what was going on.
And then I remember sitting there, so puzzled, so confused.
And I remember some of my friends said, if you're stressful, if you're stressed out,
just close your eyes and just relax.
Oh man, you were still doubting.
Yeah.
So I just, so I closed my eyes and I just like, okay, I got to calm down.
Maybe I'm hearing things, you know, I'm just, you know, all messed up.
So I decided to just close my eyes and just be still.
And the strangest thing happened.
Yeah.
When I closed my eyes, I saw myself sitting in a big armchair and in front of me was this
huge movie screen.
And my life began to play out on that screen.
Every single thing that I did, good, bad, ugly was being filmed.
The fights that I got involved in, the women that I was having affairs with, the people
that I was pushing dope to and smoking with, all that crap was just flooding my mind.
But I was in this chair and then I opened my eyes and I went, what was that?
It was so strange.
Never had that before.
So I closed my eyes again.
It played again the second time.
But this time around, something began to happen in my heart.
I felt a physical presence inside.
I felt guilty.
I felt remorseful.
I felt very sad.
And I began to silently cry.
It just, something was happening to me.
I couldn't explain it, but I felt so guilty of all the crap that I was doing.
Like there was a eureka moment.
I've come to some realization.
And then I remember as I kept my eyes closed and my eyes were tearing, I just put my hands
up like this, and I kept doing this.
I just kept doing this.
And I was thinking, what's going on?
What's going on?
And then I hear the voice again, but this time it's very different.
It says, give your mom a call.
Give your mom a call.
And so I just stood up.
Why was the voice different?
You said different.
No, different as in the words were different.
The words are different.
Okay.
But it was the same voice.
Same voice.
Give your mom a call.
Same gentle voice, but different words.
So I got up and then my wife looked at me, where are you going?
So I couldn't explain to her what was going on.
So I just told her, I said, I'm just going out to get a cup of coffee.
So I exited the ward and I went down to the lobby and I saw the payphone there.
So I called my mom and she picked up the phone and then she says, hey, hi son.
How is baby?
Is he okay?
I said, mom, he's breathing on his own.
Then she goes, oh, that's good, that's good.
I said, yeah, the nurses are also kind of puzzled that he's breathing on his own, but
that's very good news.
That's very good news.
You know?
And then I said, mom, I got to tell you something.
She says what?
I said, mom, I heard this voice.
Then she said, what do you hear?
I said, I know exactly what I heard mom, and I'll tell you what I heard.
All right?
Help me here.
What is it?
I said, I heard these words, Leon, after all that you've done, I still love you.
Suddenly she shouted at the top of her voice.
She shouted, praise the Lord hallelujah.
And of course I was like, what?
Mom, what's going on?
Why?
She's screaming, praise the Lord hallelujah.
And then she went silent.
And then as I was trying to hear what was going on on the other line, on the other side
of the line, I heard her crying.
Give me a moment.
Sure.
Take your time, man.
Yeah.
So she was crying on either end of the line.
And as I heard her crying, I also cried.
I asked her, what's going on, mom?
And she says, son, for 18 years, for 18 years, I've been praying that Jesus will speak to
you.
And I was just silent for the very first time.
I didn't argue with her.
I didn't say anything to her.
I just kept quiet and yeah.
And we were just laughing and crying on the phone because she was so, she was so elated.
And I was laughing, I was crying and she was laughing.
It was really quite funny.
And then I said, mom, what?
And the first time I said, mom, here I'm asking her, you know, half the time I'm rebelling
against her, right?
And she was asking us suddenly, what do I do?
I thought so.
And then she says, listen, don't worry.
We'll bring baby back home first.
Once back home, I will introduce you to some pastors who will talk to you and you share
your experience with them.
And you know, just they will tell you what needs to be done and stuff like that.
Right.
And then I said, mom, who spoke to me?
And she, she burst out laughing.
She said, Jesus, God spoke to you.
She says, really?
I said, yes, because I believe he's the one that spoke to you because I've been praying
to him.
Oh, okay.
You know, all right.
So I remember I hung up the phone and I did something really crazy.
So I hung up the phone and I looked around the lobby.
I walked to the center of the lobby of KK Hospital.
And I looked around, make sure there's nobody, you know, and then I looked up to the ceiling.
Okay, listen.
My mom said, your name is Jesus.
She says that you are God.
If you are truly real, show me yourself.
I said that.
Okay.
Never forget saying that.
Never have a challenge gone because he will show up big time, you know.
And what do I mean by big time?
Well, that was the turning point in the year 2000.
I was somewhere in February.
I remember early part of February.
And so what I mean by he shows up big time is because after that, the first three years
of my journey in the Christian faith, you know, it was really a struggle and a challenge,
but he actually showed up not physically, but I remember my heart began to change slowly.
I became softer, you know, and I began to understand and become very sensitive to things
around me, you know, and I remember even my drug addiction left me.
Really?
Miraculous.
Nothing is wrong with my organs.
No withdrawal symptoms?
No, man.
No.
You just dropped it like that?
Yeah, just like that.
All these years?
Yes.
Yeah.
Just like that.
Being stoned every day?
Yes.
Yeah.
No, nothing?
Nothing.
Cold turkey?
Cold turkey.
No cold, I mean.
It went cold turkey, but there were no side effects.
Exactly.
Yeah.
And I remember, yeah, so my life had began to drastically change.
The choices that I began to make were more meaningful.
And I even saw my wife in a different light, like as if a pair of curtains were pulled
off or veiled, you know?
Pulled off from my eyes.
I would say my spiritual eyes, because suddenly my wife became so attractive and not, I'm
not talking about the external beauty, I'm talking as a person.
As a person.
Yeah.
And it was so, so strange.
And I was even able, you know, I thank God for her because I was able to actually go
to her and say, I'm so sorry, and you know, ask for forgiveness and all that.
And things began to change.
My daughter was already by then, like that is very different, you know, things are beginning
to change.
And of course, the two greatest witnesses are my mom and my wife, because they saw that
happen.
Now, you know, then, yeah, so then ministry opportunities opened for me, prison ministry
and things like that, you know.
So that was a turning point in the year 2000, where things began to change.
Now, is it a journey of, is it a smooth journey?
No, it's not.
Why?
Because when Jesus came into my life, he didn't guarantee me a smooth, everything is all hunky
dory kind of journey, you will still face challenges, you know, as the Bible says, as
a part of the Bible that Jesus says, listen, you know, in this world, you have many troubles,
but take courage, I have overcome the world.
So I began to understand, oh, okay, so I just plug into him every day, you know, and it's,
you know, live by his grace, his extended grace over me.
So it's been a very, very interesting journey and the transformation is not complete.
It's an ongoing transformation for me.
I'm still Leon, you know, of course, I don't drug, I don't do drugs anymore.
I've given up drinking, I don't smoke anymore, you know.
You know, the guy that goes out there looking for a fight.
No, man, no, man.
No, no, no.
You're still a guy that loves bikes.
Oh, I still love motorcycles, I still love bicycles.
I love anything two wheels, you know, I still love anything two wheels.
Yeah, but I think my, I began, you know, of course, there was a lot of regrets, especially
the tattoos on my body.
Why?
No, yeah, because when I, okay, now this I got to explain to you.
When I put the tattoos on my body, it was because I had a very bad low self-esteem.
My mom was always knocking me down.
And so I felt okay, I put more garang, you know, that kind of thing.
It was pure stability to me.
Well, I got ink.
No, no, I'm not saying anything about your ink.
Talk for me personally.
You know, it was such, it is such a regret.
Why?
Because I like what my son told me, my son who is now 23 years old, the one that was
sick as a baby.
He told me, he says, no dad, if God wanted you to have tattoos, you would have come out
of mom with tattoos.
I mean, out of mama with tattoos, you know.
Okay, makes a little bit of sense there.
But you know, but I personally felt that I did all of that out of stupidity because I
wanted to be somebody whom I thought was supposed to be that Leon, right?
Sorry, Leon.
But that's not the Leon that God had built me to be.
So I had that regret.
But you know what?
I have had been encouraged by many people that I've met, people in the church and outside
of the church who know my story.
And they say, hey, listen, God never wastes anything that he makes.
And I was like, wow, what do you mean?
He says, you were built by God and this is who you are.
You know, God has made you.
You made mistakes.
Yes, you tattooed your body.
You took drugs.
You did all of rubbish.
But he redeems what was lost.
And to him, it's not lost.
He now uses it for his purpose and his plans.
So I didn't see that.
You know, so it was only through my journey of faith that I began to understand.
Oh, okay.
So that's why a lot of people when they see me, they say, oh, you're a pastor, but you
got tattoos.
What's the catch?
And this is my story.
Oh, wow.
How many years did it take for you?
I mean, you made a decision to become a pastor, right?
No, hang on a minute.
This is very interesting.
I never ever prayed a prayer to ask God to make me a pastor.
Right.
Never.
But something happened in 2003 at a conference where I'm not sure if you heard of people
like they prophesy, they speak over your life.
I'm not sure if you heard of such things.
No, not fortune telling.
Yeah.
Okay.
So anyway, there's this visiting pastor from Canada.
And I was at this conference and he comes up at the mic.
He's about to start his seminar.
He looks across at me.
I'm sitting in the front row and he says, hey, you, what's your name?
Then of course I turn around and he goes, no, you, you, you.
Me?
Yeah, you stand up.
So I stood up and I said, my name's Leon.
How can I help you?
And this is a conference where there are about 300 people gathered.
This was a church conference.
And this pastor basically told me in my face that there's going to come a time where God
was going to use me.
He's going to bring me to places where the church has never been before or doesn't go
in and penetrate.
I didn't understand what that meant.
And so it is many, many years later that I began to understand what he meant.
There was going to come a time where God was going to appoint me as a pastor to work.
Mission work.
Yeah, mission work.
And so I can't go into great detail, but I'm also involved in a capacity in the Changi
prison where they call it the special handling unit.
And these are men awaiting judicial execution.
Okay.
Those in death row.
Yes.
So I can't say anything else.
Sure.
So I never saw this coming.
And so God has used me not only there, but other places within the church.
And so I never woke up one day and said, no, I want to be a pastor.
No.
That was furthest from my mind.
Because the only experience I have honestly is logistics.
Okay.
But you went to do a diploma in theology.
Can we have that one up please, Leroy?
Yes.
Oh yeah.
There you go.
So now it's more than just logistics, man.
Yeah.
This is really by God's grace, to be honest with you.
I mean, with someone who had only lower secondary education, it was such an honor and privilege
to go up there and to receive that.
It was five long years though.
Because it's part time, I was doing part time.
And it was such a blessing to be able to get the diploma in theology.
Some of the things you said, your whole story, it's so wonderful to hear honestly.
And it really is inspiring.
And frankly, some of the things in your story resonates with me.
I had my son.
He was in very bad shape.
Same thing.
I think what your son, Gino, had was RSV, respiratory sensitive virus, which is that
bad flu that usually kids get at hospitals.
And he was hit by Kawasaki disease.
So I understand that pain, man.
And you see your kid, retubes.
Helpless, yeah.
Helpless, man.
I mean, that broke me.
That broke me.
I would think so.
It would break any guy, any dad.
Yeah, and I just want to ask you out of curiosity.
How did Jesus sound like?
Well, definitely not like us.
Timber wise, timber.
How's his timber like?
How's his accent like?
Okay, so I've never heard it audible again, but I will tell you this.
It was a very firm, but a very gentle voice, mid tone.
Mid range.
I know, and accent.
Nah, I couldn't make out the accent.
But it was just, you know, so gentle.
I think that the one thing that I truly believe that happened that day in the hospital was
when he spoke, I think it was just pure love coming through.
Which you can sense, straight away.
Yeah, I tell you why.
Because as much as I was such a prodigal son, he didn't address all the sins that I had
been doing.
He said, Leon, after all that you have done, I still love you.
And sitting on an armchair watching that movie of all the things that you've done in your
life that was wrong.
Funny enough, over the past two weeks, I mean, I've been reading stuff, you know, every now
and then I get on my phone, get on my socials, and then you see people give testimonies about
near death experiences.
So many of them actually say that they see their lives flash and the things that they've
done to people and then they feel the guilt, you know.
So when you mentioned this, it's like, hey, this sounds familiar.
I just read this or saw this somewhere a couple of times over the last couple of weeks.
It was like, whoa, hang on.
Yeah, so I mean, that was my experience.
And yeah, I really can't explain until today, but I know for a fact that, you know, I've
become so sensitive.
But at the same time, I also realized that, you know, as much as God has given me the
second chance, I have to give others the second chance.
And that's why, you know, when you mentioned about, oh, you don't go around hitting people
or finding trouble and stuff like that.
Yeah, it's so strange.
Yeah.
But it's so strange.
Yeah.
So is there a message or piece of wisdom you'd like to share with our viewers, listeners,
you know, particularly those who might be grappling with their own challenges and seeking
a way forward on a secular basis first?
Sure.
Yeah.
But you need to look for the trigger point why you are where you are at, what has happened.
Trace back to the point where it all went wrong, you know, and sort of realign yourself.
Try to find out really where it went wrong and go back to that point and sort of get
it realigned.
By the end of the day, for me personally, I know that I cannot help but say that my
own realignment is because of what happened to me.
This is the supernatural encounter.
Man, it took the big boss himself to come.
Yeah, that's how, like, you know, it really hit me and it speak to me.
But you know what, I mean, I want to open this to all of you all who are out there.
You know, if you guys are struggling and if you've seen this podcast, you've heard me
and you want to talk to me, you can get in touch with Chris.
You know, I'm not selling or trying to sell coyote, that's what they say.
But if you need to talk to somebody, I would be more than happy to facilitate that.
Because everyone's different.
Great.
Yeah.
I've actually designed, just to end the show, I've actually designed something and produced
something.
So it's a very short little snippet to end this episode.
You will see it when the episode does air.
So it's done for you.
So it's kind of fun.
Okay, okay.
So thanks so very much.
Pastor Leon Stewart, thank you so much for being here.
No, thank you Chris for having me.
It's such a riveting story.
No, for allowing me to share, man.
No, no, not at all, not at all.
Such a riveting story.
It's so good to hear all that.
It's really nice to hear.
Thank you, thank you.
And congratulations.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Right, everyone, I hope you've enjoyed this episode of Shine a Light on the Chris Hansen
conversation with Pastor Leon Chester Stewart.
No, I am not evangelizing.
And yes, the show is still secular.
Okay, but this is a story worth telling, and it's a story worth hearing and listening.
So until next time, whatever it is, stay good.
I'll see you again soon.
Bye bye.
Bye.