The plot too is here is that people think that usually you know from that kind of behavior
that I just described right, I might come from an actually like a broken home and stuff
like that.
But in actual fact, I was actually raised very well.
Hi everyone, welcome back to the Chris Hansen conversation.
In my studio today, I have someone really special because as I mentioned, I've been
mentioning this over the last one or two episodes and I have a few series lined up actually
and this is one of those series.
Remember, I've got one called Euphora, that's for the UFO series.
UFO Reveal Asia, then I've also got one for I Love My Job.
This is the next one.
This one is called Shine A Light.
You can see the series title in short right now, it says Shine A Light and this is for
people that I believe can shine a light in all of our lives because they're doing things
that are so special.
They've also come from backgrounds that, for lack of a better term, rather questionable
in the past but made good and done great and still doing great and I think these people
can inspire everyone who watches this episode.
And with me today, a special person to shine a light for all of us, I have with me Andin
Kadir.
Welcome to the studio, Andin.
Thank you, Rua.
Thank you for having me.
No, not at all, man.
Pleasure's mine.
Thank you for being here.
There's a reason why you're here.
You're here to shine a light for everyone.
Honest to God, I really didn't do that much research because I want to really hear it
all today on camera.
Can you please tell me who Andin Kadir is?
In your own words.
Take your time.
Okay.
My name is Andin Kadir.
I am turning 38 years old this year.
So my background is that I'm an ex-offender.
I served time when I was 15 to 20 years old.
Holy shit, so young.
So 15 in juvenile home and then when I turned 16, I was sent to maximum security from 16
to 20.
I served my prison time.
Prison time in maximum security.
What did you do, man?
Don't mind me asking.
Gang-related activities.
So I was charged twice with voluntarily causing grievous hurt with weapon.
So the first one I was sent to juvenile center, Singapore Boys Home, and then my first home
leave when I was in boys home.
So I absconded, means I ran away.
Did not return as instructed.
And then the next day I went to commit another similar offense basically.
How long ago was this?
It was some time ago.
Yeah, I'm 38.
You're 38 now.
You were 15, 16.
Okay, that was a long time ago.
I need to know.
Grievous hurt with a weapon.
Can you tell everyone what exactly happened?
The first one was both gang-related.
So it was a gang fight?
Yeah, you can call it.
More of like gang-induced, because the first one we stabbed a gang rival.
The second one was a slashing case.
It's not a gang fight.
We premeditated that action whereby we knew the location of the people that we were going
to hurt.
So we planned and then we came down.
It's more like an attack basically.
So you premeditated, so you attacked the guy and both of these guys were?
One was hospitalized.
I mean like the first case, he was hospitalized.
He was okay technically.
And then the second one was hospitalized as well, but he lost the function of his arm,
of his hand from that attack basically.
Yeah.
Looking back right now, 38 years old, looking back now, 15, 16 years old, committed all
those.
In the past, I know.
How do you feel about that today?
It could have been worse for both parties, for him or for me, stuff like that.
But to honestly, until today, I cannot say that I regretted my actions.
I have to be honest.
Okay, please do.
Please be.
Yeah, because it's a gang related thing and it's not like he's an innocent bystander or
he's innocent that I went there to actually rob him or anything like that.
But it's either one day he'll get me or I have to get him first.
That sort of situation.
That was how it was like then.
Yeah, yeah.
How about the second guy?
The second guy that was premeditated.
I mean, you don't regret that one either.
No, because he was in the gang as well.
He was also involved in the gang.
So we knew what we were getting into though.
Were you prepared for the consequences at that time knowing that chances are pretty
high in Singapore, chances are pretty high you get caught?
Yeah.
Were you aware of that?
Were you aware that chances are high that you'd be caught?
I was very much aware because I was already on the run when I committed that offence.
So I ran away, I absconded and stuff.
And still you went ahead with that.
Just by the fact that you went on the run, you became a fugitive.
Wow.
Yeah.
So at that point in time, the only goal back then was to do as much damage as possible.
You already have a bad rep or a good rep basically, from whichever perspective you're looking
at.
So might as well add on to that at that point in time.
How about your background?
What's your background like?
I was adopted actually when I was two.
But now the plot twist here is that people think that usually from that kind of behavior
that I just described, I might come from a broken home and stuff like that.
But in actual fact, I was actually raised very well.
I have everything that I needed.
In fact, I was the spoiled child of the family because they put me first before their kids.
You know what I mean?
Okay, before their natural kids.
So I have to ask you this man, because this is the first time I've spoken to ex-offenders
before, on my previous shows.
And you're the first that actually point blank telling me that I didn't come from a broken
home.
So what actually caused you to get into this situation and the circumstances you were under?
It took me a while to actually troubleshoot where went wrong.
But after now that I'm a little bit older, I have a daughter of my own, and I actually
work with a lot of youth and stuff like that.
I also study a little bit about human behavior and stuff like that through experience because
I'm also a coach.
So actually it stemmed from me wanting validation.
Because the fact of the matter is that, remember that I told you that my adopted parents already
have kids, right?
Yes, yes.
They are way, way older than me.
So I'm number nine.
Oh wow, that's huge.
Big family.
Yeah, so they already have seven kids of their own.
They have another adopted son, and then they decided to actually adopt me.
And the age gap between me and number nine is about 16 years.
Wow, way.
Huge gap.
So when I was adopted, I was a baby, right?
And growing up, I was the most adult because they are still in their teenage years, and
they are still single, don't have families and stuff like that.
Until all of them got married, have kids of their own, moved away, and then I feel abandoned.
And also, they will always have this perception of me as being the baby of the family.
Even though I'm already grown up, wanting to explore and do things on my own and stuff
like that.
So they overprotected me, actually.
So the overprotectiveness, your thinking, got you into that life.
So it's really what's for validation as far as you're concerned, as far as you've deciphered.
Something to prove that I'm not a baby.
I don't need that much protection anymore and stuff like that.
That's where I decided to actually join a gang and then do stuff that my family would
not think that I am capable of doing.
But at home, I'm not.
Like I said, I was raised well, so at home, they didn't suspect anything initially.
Because at home, I behave like how I'm supposed to behave.
I still have respect for my elders, still do my duties as a son and whatever.
But whatever you did outside, nobody knew.
Until I got caught and they can't believe it.
They couldn't believe it.
Oh my.
I need to have a word with my son.
He's a good kid.
Just make sure that everything's good, man.
Yeah I think at that point in time, you know, like...
You work with youth.
So have you encountered anyone who, just like you, needed validation but at home they're
like, you know, good kids.
And then outside they're doing something that's at risk.
I have not.
You have not?
Yeah yeah.
Because most of the kids that I work with are usually from broken families for the lack
of better.
So that is really the prevalent cause usually.
Yeah.
Right.
Okay.
But in my case, it can actually happen even if you have a solid background, you know,
solid family foundation and stuff like that.
So when you went into prison, what was it like for you?
Was it really something that made you turn around?
Did prison turn you around?
No.
Actually prison made me worse.
Holy shit balls.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
That was the destination that I wanted to achieve actually.
Yeah.
That was the goal.
Your goal was to go to prison to get worse.
Yeah.
When I was in my teenage years.
Did you do drugs at that time?
No.
You were completely lucid when it came to thinking this mindset.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
So basically, you know.
Holy crap.
If I want to do something, you know, from young, I would want to go all the way and
then not do a half-ass.
A half-fuck job.
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm saying it.
I'm just saying man.
Half-fuck job.
I'm just saying that's the direction that it's okay to not even do the job, let alone
a half-fuck job, you know.
Yeah.
But it was an ambition for you to go to prison.
Yeah.
And okay.
When you were there, did you achieve that ambition in your mind?
I was like almost there.
Almost there.
Okay.
So, you know, like at 16, you know, you go into maximum security, you go into an adult
prison and then you get to see all these names, right?
Yeah.
That you only heard of when you were like, you know.
Legends in that world.
Yeah.
And then now you are like in the company of them, you know.
So you absorb as much as you possibly can, you know.
And then when you are released, you know, you go even bigger.
That's all the...
Dude, you're talking as if you've just gone to university, man.
Yeah.
It's something that is like an upgrade, right?
Oh man.
Yeah.
Wow, an upgrade.
Yeah.
So you were there for six years.
One year in juvenile or rather.
About one, almost two years in juvenile.
Two, almost two years in juvenile and the rest of the balance, what, four or five years
in maximum security?
Yeah, about three years.
Oh, three years in maximum security.
Then you were released.
Yeah.
And what happened then?
And then I went on a rampage basically.
You still went on a rampage?
Yeah.
Okay.
So I put all my contacts and my experience to use, basically.
Now that I have a bit more experience and probably a name for myself.
And yeah, like weekly fights, you know.
Now I start to dabble in trafficking, you know, selling drugs, making a bit of money.
Now it's my time to make a bit of money, right?
Right.
Yeah.
And that's what I basically did.
And then what happened?
So what put it to a stop was.
Ah, okay.
We're coming to transitioning transformation story.
Was that the CID or the secret society branch did a sweep on my group of friends, basically.
And then most of them got detained under the CLD law, better known as 55.
55.
Section 55.
Can you just for the benefit of listeners and viewers, especially those who are from
the rest of the parts of the world outside of Singapore, what section 55 really means?
Okay, so section 55 is that the government can actually, the authorities can actually
detain you for an indefinite period of time.
Okay.
Under two acts, the secret society act and also the drug trafficking act.
Oh, including that.
Including that.
Okay.
I never knew that part.
Okay. There are two types of section 55.
Right.
Or what we call the criminal law detention.
Okay.
Yeah.
And most of my friends, depending on the ranks that they got charged for.
Right.
So if you're a head man, then five, seven years and stuff like that without any date
of release.
And then there are also like members or fighters who are like, you know, three, four years.
Right.
Yeah.
Depending on how the situation is.
So when you're in there, you really don't know when you're going to be released.
Yeah.
Were you waiting for a time to be released or were you just liking the fact that you're
in there again?
Oh no, I didn't, I didn't get detained yet.
Okay.
Sorry.
Let me just rewind that.
Okay.
So they didn't sweep under the CLD and your friends and all that.
And you got, you got also caught up in that.
Yeah.
So we already know who's wanted because you know, like before that they'll call you for
an interview.
Right.
And then there's a board with your name on it, the hierarchy and stuff like that.
So basically we were the last few to actually got wanted for it.
Okay.
So one of my friends went, he went for the interview.
And then he got, he got released for a while, right?
Pending a little bit more investigation and stuff.
So he got out and then he told me that, you know, you are also wanted basically.
Okay.
Yeah.
And at that point in time, my ex girlfriend was already about five months pregnant.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
So at that point knowing that then I have to make a move basically.
Right.
So I went on the run again.
When you say make a move, you went on a run.
Okay.
I was waiting to hear the transformation happening somehow.
But no, you went on the run.
Okay.
And what happened?
You went on a run and then picket time, picket time, man.
You can have the body too.
Later.
Yeah.
Smells good, bro.
It does.
It is good, man.
Since we're on that topic, hang on a second.
Okay, everybody.
I'm doing this mid-flight this time around.
Take a look at this, man.
Leroy, get ready to flash that wonderful bit up for Gordon's Vade.
Probably the crispiest, fluffiest prawn vade in the land.
Thank you, VJ.
I love you in a bit, dude.
This is really, these munchkins are amazing.
Make sure you order them either online at gordonvade.com or you can WhatsApp 877-009-69.
VJ will be happy to serve you.
Gordon's Vade.
Thanks again, guys.
Wonderful.
Now you can have them, man.
Have Adam.
Okay, let me get back to the story.
Yeah.
Right.
So you went on a run.
Girlfriend five months pregnant, but you went on a run.
And what happened?
Yeah.
So just to lay low because there's no criminal charges against me.
So I haven't committed any offense.
So that's how it works.
Okay.
So until the heat dies down, then after that they will move on to something else.
Yeah.
Or something else.
Right.
So yeah, so that's what I did.
I laid low.
While I was laying low, I moved in with my ex-girlfriend back then, who is actually my
ex-wife.
We eventually got married.
Okay.
Yeah.
And what I did then was like, apart from finding a proper job, because we will need CPF and
Medisave and things like that for the baby.
So I decided to work basically.
Okay.
Yeah.
So this is the first time you actually went for legitimate work.
Yeah.
How old are you then?
About 21.
Okay.
Twenty, 21.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then I landed a job as a towel boy first.
A towel boy?
Yeah.
Where?
California Fitness.
The one in town, the one in Ocho Road.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
And I also have a membership in a gym.
Okay.
In California?
No.
In Fitness First.
Oh, Fitness First.
Yeah.
Because they weren't hiring.
Right.
So I was a member.
They weren't hiring.
So they like some of the, you know, I made friends with some of the instructors and personal
trainers.
They say, you know, you can try California, low barrier to entry, you know, for someone
like me who's still raw, you know, still trying to speak English.
Okay.
And.
You speak English.
Your English is perfectly fine to me.
Over the years, basically.
What do you mean?
Back then, really?
Back then, I didn't have any education.
Right.
Zero.
I only have N levels.
So you left school after N levels.
No, I did not finish school.
So I finished my N levels in prison.
So I was sent to Kaki Bukit Prison School.
Right.
That was my last stint.
Right.
Yeah.
Okay.
Completed my N levels there.
Yeah.
And then, you know, still trying to learn how to actually talk to people.
Right.
You know, because it's a different world, right?
Yeah.
So that's where I started as a towel boy and then moved on to become a membership consultant.
You know, do cold call, you know, sell membership, con people, basically.
The look on your face is priceless.
I hated that job.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then, while doing that, you know, I was taking my personal trainer certification.
Wow.
Okay.
At the same time.
Okay.
And then once I got my PT certification, then an opportunity opened up where Fitness First
was opening a new branch in Cathay at that point in time.
So I applied for the job.
Right.
And then because I don't have experience, right?
So they let me become a fitness instructor.
Basically, my uniform is different from other fitness professional.
I just wear a red t-shirt, okay, with the words, free to help behind.
Oh.
Yeah.
So my job is to just clean the machine, you know, and then help the members if they need
help.
Okay.
Et cetera.
So that's how I actually first started.
In the fitness world.
In the fitness industry.
Yeah, yeah.
In the fitness industry, so to speak.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then what happened after that?
And then I got moved up to fitness instructor whereby I can start taking clients and doing
assessments.
Okay.
Well, that must have been quite something for you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm pretty sure you were probably over the moon when you had that opportunity.
I was.
I remembered, you know, not wanting to take off my PT vest.
Wow.
You know, we have a uniform, okay, but when we are actually coaching, you know, with a
client, we have this vest, Nike vest that you put on that says personal trainer.
It's like an armor of honor.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
To me, I was like, wow.
Wow.
That's nice.
I even, you know, I didn't change, you know, like I go home with my uniform, you know.
The pride, huh?
Yeah, yeah.
So during this period, man, I mean, when you started as a towel boy, became a membership
consultant, hated that job, went on to becoming a, you know, the person that would be the
backup for the trainer, right, sort of.
Yeah.
And then after that, you got, became a certified full-on hired as a PT, right, personal trainer.
Had you had any thoughts in your mind about the dark side of life that you've been leading?
Uh, yeah, yeah, actually.
Was it still on your mind?
Were you still thinking, pre-meditating, you know?
Yeah.
You were.
Yeah.
It was still fresh, basically.
Okay.
So it's like a transition, right?
Actually, it was like a identity crisis also.
You felt that you were having a crisis.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right.
One is that, you know, I grew up with, you know, gangs, right?
Loyalty and stuff.
Part of life, became a part of life, basically.
Lifestyle.
And the way that you behave, your demeanor will be different and stuff.
And then at work, you know, you should be behaving in a certain way, you know?
And it's customer service at the end of the day.
You have to take a lot of shit from people, right?
And your colleagues and stuff like that.
So yeah, yeah, I was a bit raw back then, you know?
Got into a little bit of arguments with my colleague.
Disagreements because of office politics sometimes coming into play.
Yeah, things like that, you know, hot-headed, you know, like talking back to managers.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I wasn't the best of employees to have back then.
Okay.
All right.
And then you got that vest on, you became a PT, still trying to get used to a new kind
of life.
Did you make a decision there and then that you're going to get into this, you know, whiter
side of life, if I may put it that way?
Yeah.
Not so much yet.
My daughter was already born back then, so I was busy with looking after her as well
because she's my chief, you know?
When my ex-wife was on maternity, you know, I go to work, she took care of our daughter
in the day and I will take care of her at night.
So and then moving house as well.
Just got the house, right?
So just got a home and then busy with work as well.
So I didn't have much time to think about it yet.
I was just focused on it yet, on the family.
And then when things settled down a little bit, right, then I saw the potential of, you
know, making a bit of money from doing personal training.
Right?
So I was like, oh, okay.
Even though it's not much, right, but to me it's like, wow, legitimate money.
You start to have like credit cards and stuff like that.
Right.
You know, these things, you know, come into your life, you know, and it was the prime
motivator, logically.
Okay.
Material stuff.
Okay.
Yeah.
And I wasn't really wanting to actually excel in my job, which is about making money at
that point in time.
So that was one.
And then after that, after about two years, two years later, I got divorced.
And then moved out.
And also I changed jobs, basically.
I mean, I was still in personal training, but I went on to a different company.
Yeah, I wanted to do like, to a company where I can actually work part time.
And then at the same time, also do my own freelance thing.
Okay.
Yeah.
What kind of freelance thing?
Personal training as well.
Okay.
Because the company doesn't take a cut.
I take a hundred percent.
Right.
Yeah.
And then slowly I shifted into venturing out by myself.
And doing full-time freelancing for personal training.
Yes.
And from there, then I know that I have to survive.
Because there's no company to back me up.
I have to find my own clients through referrals and stuff like that.
So I started to pay a bit more attention to what I'm doing.
Okay.
Trying to actually learn a little bit more.
Okay.
Be a little bit more, take a little bit more initiative in my growth.
Okay.
So that's where I started doing courses, reading more books on fitness.
And then the things that I want to specialize in, which was Caterbell back then.
Okay.
So the story about Caterbell is that I'm one of the pioneer coaches that actually taught
Caterbell training.
Caterbell in Singapore.
Right.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
Those things are monstrous, man.
Yeah.
I became quite good at it.
Both at using it and also teaching it.
Right.
Yeah.
So I coached a group of foreign workers, mostly Bangladeshis and Indians.
Hmm.
Yeah.
From construction sites.
Really?
Yeah.
Because Caterbells back then, nobody knew what the hell is this thing.
Right?
So it was banned from commercial gyms.
Really?
Yeah.
What the hell?
Really?
Yeah.
And that was one of the reasons why I actually got warning letters for using Caterbells.
In the gyms.
Yeah.
Right.
But it's everywhere in every damn gym now, man.
Oh, right.
Yeah.
Everywhere.
I have the last laugh now.
Fuckers.
Yeah.
Okay.
Fuckers.
Okay.
I mean, good for you, man.
I mean, every time I go to the gym, fucking Caterbells are everywhere, man.
So don't worry about it.
You're good, man.
You're good.
Okay.
So I'm going to go to the gym.
I'm going to go to the gym.
Yeah.
I'm going to go to the gym.
You're going to go to the gym.
Okay, good.
So you got certification.
More and more certified.
And you were training Bangladeshis.
Well, freaking amazing.
And what happened.
And then, I started to assist, you know, because of the growth of Caterbells, so people want
to actually learn more from it, more about it.
they started to call for instructors to come in to actually teach and they
called one of the Cattlebell gurus from the States, Steve Cotter who happens to
be my teacher as well. So I was the assistant to him in that course.
And that was where I met your nephew. Shout out to Irving Hansen. Yeah.
He actually played an important role in my growth. Wow. I'm glad. Shout out to him.
And that's where he wanted, he asked me if I want to join his team.
Because he already have a gym. Before that, there was Profit Institute.
Before the pit. Okay. So you know, talk to him. Solid guy, nice guy.
He understand, you know, that he doesn't judge me and stuff like that. Yeah, he's a nice guy.
Very big heart. Yeah. So that's where I started to actually be part of his team.
Yeah. And then he set up, after Profit closed down, he set up pit.
So we set up the pit from scratch. And then from there, you know, I
decided to actually part ways with him to actually open up my own.
So dude, from prison to towel boy to gym owner. Yeah. Oh man. Fuck me. Give me a high five.
Thank you. Fuck it. And it was a hard decision. It's called a Strength Yard, right?
No, no. It's Strength Avenue. Strength Avenue. I'm so sorry. No problem.
Can you have the picture up please, Leroy? We always have that confusion.
Yeah, I always get the confusion. Yeah, you're right. Can we put that picture up?
There you go. Yeah. Yeah, right, man. Wow, dude. Dude. Yeah.
You know, you said something. I saw a post. And it's pretty remarkable.
You said this. And it stirred something in me. So that's the reason why I have it on my laptop.
If you can't show up to the gym, put in the work where the environment allows you to be in control
of what you'll be doing and adjustable to how you're feeling on that particular day,
there is no way you're going to show up and be ready to face what life is going to be throwing at you out there.
And I got to say, I put it there for a reason, man. Because you're basically saying that what you do in the gym is akin to life.
Yeah, it prepares you for what the hell life is going to be throwing at you.
So at that stage, when you went freelance, you became the kettlebell guy and having had the last laugh.
And then joining Irving, right? And then getting your own gym eventually throughout this entire journey, man.
Anything from your past ever came back to you?
It did, every now and then. Especially when one of like, actually quite a fair bit,
but I think one from the top of my head would be dealing with landlords basically.
To convince them that I'm a legitimate business owner. And agents as well.
When they meet up with me, initially to look at their space and stuff like that.
But there's always that hesitation and also that suspicion whether I'm going to run a legitimate business.
Yeah, and it didn't happen once or twice. It happened most of the time.
So it's the stereotype? How do you deal with that, man?
Sometimes there's no fighting it. Once someone's made up their mind about you.
And then especially in a situation whereby they won't be able to have the opportunity to actually interact much with you.
Because let's say, just viewing one or twice.
Let it be until someone who actually either trusts me enough or desperate enough to actually have me as their tenant,
decide to do business with me, then I have to prove to them that they were right about me.
Do you still face that today, after so long?
Now, for the past few years, I don't have. Because I've signed my lease for the last few years.
Not just for rental properties and stuff, for your business. I mean in general, you in general.
Oh yeah, of course. I'm banned from entering Australia.
You are? How did Australia get into the picture?
It's another story also. So basically about Carabell's.
I became good at it, became quite competent in coaching it.
I was invited to actually guest coach in Australia.
Set up a Carabell's sport team in one of the gyms.
Spent about a year there, in Melbourne, back and forth.
Then after that, went home and then decided to visit Brisbane.
I was telling my wife, we live in Melbourne for a while, but we've never visited the Sunshine Coast.
So we went there for a holiday. We wanted to go. I wouldn't know if it was nice or not.
Because upon reaching the airport, I was stopped at the carousel.
Then interrogated and denied entry. Sent to the detention centre for me to wait to be deported.
Why?
They didn't give a reason. But they went through my phone and everything.
I'm sure they have their reasons. That fellow has his reasons. Only one officer.
That's weird man.
So now you know that you are completely banned from Australia.
It's a three year ban which already passed.
But now if I want to apply for a visa, I cannot apply under the usual visa.
So I have to like a special visa whereby it will take months.
You know Bruce right?
Yeah, unfortunately.
Like Bruce like that.
That one I didn't know. Bruce Matthew did tell me about that.
The type of visa whereby you would need police clearance and stuff like that.
And it's not necessarily you will actually get it.
So I'm just fuck it.
That's Australia right? Fuck it. You did not miss anything.
Okay so.
Things like that.
I'm not missing much.
Other parts of the world that will welcome you.
Your commitment man.
The reason why I asked about whether or not you are still facing stereotypes today.
And back then even for your business people look at you and stuff.
And then think twice, three times whether or not they ought to do business with you.
Because they don't know whether they are legitimate or not.
What's the Yellow Ribbon Project for?
Is it just for people looking for ex-offenders looking for work?
Or is it, how about for ex-offenders who are really doing great like you.
Coming out, being entrepreneurial, start your own thing.
Does it help people like that?
Like you for instance?
You mean the Yellow Ribbon Project?
Or am I being completely ignorant about this?
I think there are two opinions about it.
One is from people who don't get help from them.
And then there are people who actually get support.
A little bit of support from them basically.
But to be honest it's also a non-profit organisation.
It's just under the Yellow Ribbon Project.
Singapore basically right.
Organisation.
And they're doing their best.
But as anything that has to do with, they have money.
Any organisation that has links to the government, they have money on.
But the problem with it is that there's a lot of red tape.
Bureaucracy.
Bureaucracy, bullshit and stuff like that.
So even though the people on the ground, they have a good heart.
Their heart is at the right place.
But in the end they will be sucked into the system as well.
So intentions are always good for sure.
No one is denying that.
But implementation is something else.
Correct.
What's all this about when they say we are each other's second chances?
You're climbing mountains now man.
So I'm talking to a guy who...
Wow I'm really hearing stories today man.
This is such an eye opener for me.
I've got to tell you.
A guy who came from a good family, from a good background.
And who decided to seek validation elsewhere.
And elsewhere wasn't a very good decision.
And causing harm to people and stuff.
Served time.
Came out.
Started as a towel boy.
I think deep down inside there was a seed for you, correct me if I'm wrong, to get somewhere right.
And then went through that rite of passage, going through all the regular bullshit.
And practically all most people do in their working life.
To the point where you became a specialist.
In the trade.
And to a point where you started a business.
Through that trade.
And then now this guy, this guy, Andin Kadir.
Is a mountaineer.
I mean for fuck's sake I've never had a mountaineer in my studio before.
Now I've got a real mountaineer in my studio.
So I need to ask you.
We are each other's second chances.
And you've been climbing mountains.
For purposes.
For reasons.
You believe in those reasons.
I strongly believe so that's why I dare to actually put it out there.
And at the same time go through the risk.
Because mountaineering is 50-50.
Yeah I know dude.
Exactly man. The risks are stupendous.
But why?
Okay because one is because mountain.
Because it's there.
No lah.
So I'm an aspiring mountaineer.
I wouldn't put myself as a mountaineer.
But you've climbed places man.
I mean I look at your pictures and the places you've gone.
I did.
But there are more accomplished mountaineers.
Which I also quite pysay lah to actually call myself mountaineer.
But yeah.
Why I decided to do it is actually for a cause.
I don't have to climb mountains.
Yeah I know. That's why I'm wondering why.
I really like to know why.
Because the idea of it came.
Because it's both metaphoric.
And also literal lah.
So like.
Me and you we both have our mountains to climb.
Day to day.
Our progression in life.
And stuff like that.
And also there's the real mountain.
And I'm also from a fitness background.
I have a lot of understanding of how the body works.
So why not I actually put it to a test.
To something that I can actually do.
So that it has its benefit.
Not only for me.
Because to be honest.
I think from my background.
Up let's say to the story where I tell you that I already have a business.
And I've stopped doing any kind of bullshit.
I think good enough.
So no more criminal activities right? Zero.
So the cops really don't have to come after you anymore right?
No no.
Since the last time.
No now they call me for engagements lah.
To talk to kids at risk.
So they're actually talking to you to do good.
To help kids at risk.
So basically I think I've done good for myself lah.
I don't have to do anything stupid lah.
Like climbing mountains.
Yeah that's why I'm asking why.
So you're saying that because to you.
You feel that you know.
Is it because it's a message you want to give people?
Or is it a message for you to validate to yourself?
That I can do this?
No it's actually a message to both people who are from the ex-offender circle.
And also for because now I'm working with both right?
With ex-offenders and also with people who are actually struggling in real life as well lah.
Who are still finding themselves and stuff like that.
And also from people from the fitness community as well.
So I think I can hit three birds with one stone with what I'm doing lah.
It's up to their interpretation basically.
Do you have a lot of support from these people?
Do these people actually watch you, follow you?
I'm fortunate enough that they do actually.
Because in one instance is that I had a sponsor dropped out at the last minute.
Before I have to actually embark on an expedition.
So I was scrambling for funds you know.
And I did a, it's like a GoFundMe.
Like a give Asia, like a crowdfunding thing lah.
And yeah they raised about $16,000 for me to go on that trip.
And the expedition. Where was that?
That was in Amadablam.
So a mountain that is more technical than Everest is.
But much lower.
Okay when you say more technical, what do you mean by more technical?
It means the way that we climb would be a bit more different than how you would climb Everest.
So Everest you know, there's not so much jumaring, rappelling required.
But for Amadablam it's a bit more technical lah.
Because it requires you to have a specific set of skills.
So when you climb these mountains, there are funds actually being raised for these causes like the yellow ribbon.
Correct. Not yellow ribbon actually.
Okay can you tell us about these causes? What are they?
So I climb mountains so that I can raise funds for two organizations.
So one being the Muslim counseling service.
Okay.
Okay because you know most inmates are Malay.
I'm not laughing at that. What you said is the way you do that.
Okay okay. I hear you.
I mean the statistics are there.
And you know I want to prove to them.
I love your frankness man. I love your frankness.
Because I do engagements in prison.
There's no bullshit.
So I would like to bring the statistics down a bit lah.
And then prove to them that you guys can actually do it.
So what's this called again? The Muslim counseling service.
Okay.
The Muslim counseling service and then there's also the HCSA.
The High Point Community Service also.
So these two organizations deal with ex-offenders.
So one, the HCSA, they have a lot of programs whereby they empower the ex-offenders to become mentors as well.
And then the Muslim counseling service also give empowerment through making these ex-inmates right.
Quranic teachers if they are eligible and qualified to be there.
So Andin I'm wondering about this because earlier in our conversation you said that you have no regrets over the things you've done.
And then you went into prison because it was an ambition sort of.
Yeah.
And then now at this stage of your life you want to prevent people from going to prison with a work with youth at risk.
You want to also help people who came out of prison.
Somewhere down that road there must have been a transformation.
A light must have hit you for you to just all of a sudden turn over a new leaf.
What was that point? There must have been an inflection point.
Yeah.
Right. Yeah.
And what was it?
My potential.
Your potential to?
To reach further. So for example right.
Your potential. Okay I'm not going to really waste a breath on this.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Your potential that you realize that you could actually go far in your life.
Make something of yourself and validate your life in a much greater way.
Because at a time when you became a towel boy then when you got that vest.
I mean you should have seen that look on your face man.
That look on your face was priceless.
When you said to me when you were describing that moment.
I felt it wholesale hit me bang on the face.
Was it that? Was it that point?
That sense of achievement that pride you felt.
Yeah.
No am I right? Am I wrong?
No no you are absolutely right.
So that was the point of transformation.
I still have that photo of me you know.
Like having that vest and stuff.
Because it's not given straight away.
It wasn't easy to get.
Yeah.
Right.
So now you climb mountains.
I'm jumping a little bit.
Pardon me.
No problem.
I'm jumping a little bit.
So you decided to climb mountains.
Now we know that Andin had his transformation at that point.
You climbed mountains because now you want to help others which is great.
How many mountains since you started to today have you climbed so far?
I would say about 40 peaks.
40?
I think yeah.
Holy shit balls dude.
Over a length of how much time have you done 40 peaks?
About 8 years.
8 years and 40 peaks.
40 peaks yeah.
Oh fuck me.
It might be lesser.
It might be less so.
No it doesn't matter man.
You can tell me he's 38.
I don't give a fuck.
He's still a log man in 8 years.
But tell me one story of these 40 peaks you've climbed.
Was there a time I'm sure there was that made, that was the freakiest moment in your life.
Made you have so much fear.
Was there ever one?
There was one actually.
Actually the Amadablam one.
Oh the one on the technical mountain.
The technical one where I actually got Covid when I was doing my acclimatisation rotation.
Holy shit.
In the mountain you got Covid?
Yeah so I nearly died actually.
What happened man?
I got Covid from Singapore.
I think I got it from a friend or something.
Okay then you went.
Yeah so I went and then it doesn't, the viral load doesn't spike.
The load doesn't hit you after 3 days until about 3 days later.
Yeah so mine hit later.
About 10 days.
Oh shit.
Okay.
And then it...
Just so happened you were in the mountain at the time.
Yeah it peaked when I was at about 5,400 metres.
Like that night.
Day by day I started to actually become worse and worse and worse before that.
So I thought it's just me not acclimatising well.
It's just because of the altitude and stuff like that.
Altitude sickness.
Yeah yeah yeah.
And the air is thinner out there right?
Yeah.
5,400 metres.
Yeah so at night, you know that night I couldn't sleep.
I couldn't do much.
So I was like trying to fall asleep and I was always, you know, once I start to lose consciousness to sleep right.
You know you lose the ability to actually control your breathing.
That's where you start gasping for air and then just get woken up, get woken up.
So many times that you know up to a point where I was really exhausted and then I started to feel that I'm sleeping away.
You know whereby you have like it's very peaceful suddenly.
You feel like you are going to sleep right and your legs start to get cold.
Your hands start to get cold.
You know I'm in a sleeping bag, minus 40 sleeping bag right.
And you know things are not right and then it's like calm.
That feeling I had.
You know I knew that if I were to sleep that night, I will not wake up.
That kind of feeling.
Yeah.
That you were like going to be out of body already.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah so what I did was then I forced myself to actually sit up, woke my Sherpa up, my guide up.
And then I radioed base cam.
You know tell them how I'm feeling.
And they had to actually, they had me make the call whether I want to wait until tomorrow or come down that night.
Right.
So I decided to go down that night in the middle of the night about 1 or 2 am.
Okay.
And then you were flown back.
And then I was chopper down to Kathmandu.
Okay.
To the city to isolate.
Right.
So I isolated myself.
And then the ART night.
Okay so how I know I got COVID is because I brought an ART kit with me.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I didn't know I had COVID until I reached base cam that night.
Right.
So I tested and then it was COVID.
Yeah.
So went down.
And then after that I waited for the test to turn negative.
And what I did was I took a loan from a friend.
And I hired a heli to go back up to the mountain.
So you went back up.
Yeah.
Dude you are nuts.
To try again.
You are fucking with me.
Yeah.
And what happened?
You went back up.
And then obviously your lungs are fucked.
Right.
Yeah.
Because of COVID.
Right.
So I just wanted to make sure that I have to give it my all.
You know I cannot.
Fucking insane man.
I cannot like not try one more time.
Dude.
I would have gone fuck this.
A lot of people ask me to go home.
I spoke to 3 or 4 doctors.
Yeah of course they will tell you to go home.
Yeah they ask me to go home.
But I know my body.
I think you know I know.
And I know that I am mature enough to call it off when you know I know that.
Oh man my goodness.
Okay this is a picture I found on your Facebook with you and a Sherpa.
Not that one Leroy.
The one with the panic.
That one yeah.
Okay this was the last expedition.
Yeah.
So what happened here man?
You said panic attack.
Yeah.
So this one here was okay.
The last expedition I did 2 peaks.
2 6000 meter mountains.
Okay.
Supposed to be summer.
You know.
But as you can see in the picture.
It's a wide out.
Oh yeah okay wide out.
Which means what?
Blizzard?
Yeah so basically snowing.
Yeah so everything is white.
Yeah the clouds.
So you cannot see anything and you don't know where you are going.
You can't see the peak.
You can't see the sky.
So you can't tell elevation and anything like that.
Yeah so you cannot see your surroundings basically.
And you know that you are walking on a ridge.
So this is actually on a ridge.
So you don't know you are going to be falling off.
Yeah.
Because you can't see.
So it looks like it's all snow right.
Yeah.
I mean it is snow.
Yeah.
But beneath that snow is fresh snow.
So you can actually give way anytime and open up into a crevasse.
Or probably into an avalanche.
Oh fuck me.
So knowing that you are in that situation right.
Yeah.
You know and then with you being blinded.
It's actually suffocating.
It's actually.
Glossophobic.
Yeah yeah.
So what happened was I just couldn't breathe.
You know and.
So it was a real panic attack man.
It was a real panic attack.
I had it twice.
Okay.
Yeah.
On this mountain.
I don't blame you man.
Shit I'll be shitting bricks up there.
Yeah yeah yeah.
And what happened was you know.
This was the second one I think.
First or second one I can't remember.
But I know there was one more.
Whereby I took out my helmet and then I started taking off everything on my body.
Because it feels really claustrophobic.
Yeah yeah.
And I took off my.
I made a mistake of taking out my goggles.
Yeah.
And then.
I was like.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And then.
Nearly got snow blinded.
Really.
Yeah yeah yeah.
So, snow blinded.
Take off your goggles.
And everything is white.
And then you get blinded by that water.
It's bright.
Yeah.
Really.
Because of the sun reflections.
Yeah yeah.
Right yeah.
So.
Right wowee.
The risk you take man.
So yeah.
This was the instance where.
Yeah.
The true person.
Really quite something huh.
They are on another level.
They...
They are the real mountaineers and they are like really have a very very good heart I should say.
You know, sometimes we say people got good heart and stuff like that, you know, they're good right?
But this one are like really genuine, they are the most genuine, the most patient.
Yeah, I mean to do what they do, my god.
There's a picture of you, a lovely picture of you standing on a precipice.
And you posted this and you wrote this. You wrote this down.
Let me just quote you. One reason why people don't grow is because of the inability to adapt.
They're tied to the notion that everything needs to be planned and perfectly executed.
Although there are merits to that, it is only applicable when the environment is stable.
Throw in some disruptions and the unpreparedness will show and eventually crumble.
So adaptability is key, especially if you're to lead.
Don't seek to manage only during stability, but more importantly during disruption.
You want to elaborate on that?
And then there's this picture of you man, standing on a precipice.
Nice right?
Yeah man, nice pick man. What was this? Where was this?
Malaysia only.
Hahaha.
New buy.
Which part of Malaysia?
Kedah.
Okay.
Yeah.
That Jurassic Park right?
Yeah man, the Jurassic Park man.
Okay so that quote that I just read out, what post you put out man?
What is it that you're trying to say here?
So basically, the last part first.
Sure please.
Everybody wants to be put in a position of power.
Because they think it's easy.
It's nice to be put up in a pedestal and stuff like that.
But it's not as easy or as rosy as most people would think to be an effective leader.
There are people who are in positions where position of leadership being put there because
of their merits.
But not because of their capability to lead.
You know what I mean?
There's a difference between that.
Like a guy who has five companies and built it to a hundred million each, then became
five hundred million but still not eligible for something else.
That kind of guy.
Yeah.
That kind of guy is someone who has built something from scratch.
Not put into some place that's already been built for them.
Yeah.
I see.
You're getting where I'm going wrong with this right?
So if you are put in that position, then it's good.
But you cannot say that you are an effective leader.
Or you can actually go and lead everybody.
Or in any sector.
In any situation.
Because you haven't been tested.
It's like Lego put for you already.
Because you fit a certain criteria, you are there.
Good for you.
It's like being parachuted in because you have your scholar or something like that.
Yeah.
Without the rites of passage.
True.
Yeah.
But you know, there are also situations whereby you have to actually have the ability and
the mental fortitude and the empathy to actually be able to be effective.
And a lot of people think that there's a sad way of doing stuff.
Which is like rigid right?
Yeah.
By the book and stuff like that.
But life is not like that.
You know what I mean?
And for people who are not in a position of leadership also, who are actually struggling,
that message is also for them.
If you just have to fuck it and just do first.
Don't think so much.
I mean you can think of the race, everything.
But you cannot expect it to go perfectly.
Wow.
Because to me the destination is not really important.
The process of it is something that will actually benefit you the most.
When you reach the destination, for example, mountain.
I want to climb mountain.
I never think about summiting.
I always think about who I'm going to meet, which camp I'm going to visit, what preparations
I have to make rather than thinking about the summit.
I've been on many peaks and on many summits.
It's not that great anyway.
When you reach there.
Really?
It was a journey right?
Yeah.
It was the journey that made me want to actually do it.
Same like life.
So now, let's say if I don't become CEO of a company, it's okay.
But if I were to actually take the same path, to actually learn for him to become the CEO
and I do the same thing, I will learn more from it and it will benefit me in a lot more
ways than me just thinking about being the CEO.
I know I will not be.
I will get disappointed.
Okay, love that.
He doesn't know this but I will say this.
I do go to the gym though I don't know if I do but I do.
What Irving wrote and it's in my head.
There was one post I remember he wrote and he said, just shut up and leave.
Correct.
Just shut up and leave.
And he's right man.
It annoys us as coaches and as professionals who have been in this industry for a long
time because now there are more information.
People start to talk about theories and everything.
Start thinking about the best equipment, the best this, the best that, the best way of
doing it but they don't have the fight inside them to actually do it.
I think you should start with yourself first and then think about the external factors
later.
Actually, that's more important than thinking about what gear to use or where to train.
Some people need to make money so they come up with all kinds of stuff.
Just one last thing before I thank you and we can stop the shoot and stop this episode.
The climb for good that you are involved in right now, you said it's made its way to Everest.
Can I just ask you out of curiosity, that picture you posted in that t-shirt climb for
good.
Not that one Leroy, the one of the Everest I think.
I just want to ask him.
You put it up now, is this Everest you are looking at?
No right?
That mountain, is that Everest?
Beside Everest, Everest range.
Ah the Everest range.
So you weren't going to go for Everest.
So this picture is taken by a Sherpa.
This is a Sherpa that wore a shirpa.
He was on Everest expedition.
So there were a few Sherpas who actually were successful in submitting Everest this season.
They submitted a few times, some for the 5th, some for the 6th time and they were wearing
this.
So they sent me this photo.
And why Everest?
So I tell you why.
It's because it has its commercial value in terms of its name.
But for me, I don't have to submit Everest.
My goal is to climb as high as I can.
Hopefully my goal would be to be able to reach any one of the 8000m peaks.
Realistically that I can afford to go.
Because Everest is $75,000 to $100,000.
Oh wow really?
So I'm doing this for a cost to be honest.
And if someone or a company would want to give me $100,000 to climb a mountain, I would
rather that money go to these two beneficiaries than for me to actually climb Mount Everest.
Because to be honest, Everest has lost its essence.
Too many people have already conquered it.
So it's no longer needed to be conquered because many people have done it.
Now that I'm into mountaineering, we hear stories and how it's climbed and stuff like
that.
It's lost its essence.
That novelty is no more already.
But why I put Everest is because it's the only mountain amongst the other 13.
There are 14 8000m mountains in the world, but only Everest people know.
So if I were to say Manaslu, Shishapangma, Choyu, nobody knows this name.
So I just put Everest basically.
And my goal is to actually be able to be on the summit of any one of the 8000m mountain.
Not necessarily Everest.
Okay.
And the reason why you're doing that, to get up at these 8000m peaks of those several that
we've got in the world, and the reason for you doing that is still to push your boundaries.
Yes, and to be able to survive the death zone.
Okay, what death zone?
So anything above a certain altitude, especially in high mountains, right?
7600 to 8000m and above, it's called the death zone.
Wow.
Whereby once you enter that altitude, your body starts to actually literally die down.
Yeah, so your cell starts to actually die.
Really?
Yeah.
So you cannot spend a lot of time above probably 8000m.
Let's put 8000m.
Yeah.
Oh.
That's why they have that oxygen mask.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's because the air is thin, but not that your cells would just, I didn't know about
the cells dying.
Yeah.
Because there's only 30% of oxygen in 8000m as compared to us at sea level.
So what happens to your body is your body literally starts to shut down.
So if you hear stories about people dying or people starting to hallucinate or jump
down, it is due to their body shutting down.
The first thing to go would be your bowel.
First thing to shut down.
Everything comes out?
I know, it stops functioning because your body starts to tell you that you don't need
it anymore.
You're dying.
So you don't have to shit.
Any last messages you want to send to our listeners and viewers before we say goodbye?
I don't know.
A lot actually, but I think I would like to thank everyone first and foremost for their
support because I know that without the support of the people around me, I wouldn't be able
to go this far because my mental is only so much.
No matter how much I say my mental is strong and stuff like that, but the support is what
makes me go the extra mile and wanting to keep pushing.
No man's an island.
So I cannot say I'm self-made.
I never believe in the word that a man is self-made.
It's because of a group of people that actually believe and give hope to that person to keep
driving on.
At the same time, also for those who are struggling or looking for something to actually push
on, I would say that you don't have to prove your haters wrong, but put that energy into
proving to that one person that believed in you that they are right about you.
It will make it a lot more worthwhile.
Thank you so much, Andin.
And thank you for being here on The Chris Hansen Conversation.
Thank you, Chris.
It's been a real fantastic chat today.
Thank you.
All right, everyone.
That was Andin Kadir.
I'm wishing him all the best on his mountaineering escapades that he'll be having over the next
couple of years, whether he climbs Everest or not.
Never mind.
We cheer him on.
There is definitely life out there, no matter what happens.
Just chase after life.
This is Chris Hansen shining a light for you through Andin Kadir today.
Have a great time, people.
Stay safe.
I'll see you again soon.
Bye-bye.
Thank you.