1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,000 Hi. 2 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:02,000 Hi. 3 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:03,000 Hello. 4 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:04,000 Good to see you. 5 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:05,000 Yeah, good to see you too. 6 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:06,000 Welcome back. 7 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Welcome. 8 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:08,000 To Mindful Poly. 9 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:09,000 I'm Nova. 10 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:10,000 I'm Fox. 11 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:22,640 And this time we're going to be talking about AroAce, or aromantic slash asexuality. 12 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:24,800 This is our gender and sexuality series. 13 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,600 Yeah, and I think it's going to be important on this series as we talk about different 14 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:33,520 genders and different sexualities to ideally bring in guests who have experience with it, 15 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,320 because we can only guess at what it might be like. 16 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:37,320 Right. 17 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:38,840 If that's not our experience, we won't speak to it. 18 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:39,840 Right. 19 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,960 Which is why we're starting with AroAce, because I identify somewhere on the Aeroace 20 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:45,960 spectrum. 21 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:46,960 Mm-hmm. 22 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,720 Don't you, you specifically say gray AroAce. 23 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:50,720 I do. 24 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:51,720 I do. 25 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,040 But I, it's, all of these terms are only helpful if they're helpful, you know? 26 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:56,040 So it's kind of tricky. 27 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:57,040 Right. 28 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:58,640 I mean, different things to different people. 29 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,440 Yeah, and I'm still kind of dialing in that for myself. 30 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,320 So let's start by defining these terms. 31 00:01:04,320 --> 00:01:05,320 Yeah. 32 00:01:05,320 --> 00:01:10,720 My understanding of asexuality would be a lack of sexual attraction to others, or at 33 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:15,000 least low drive or low desire for sexual activity. 34 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:16,000 Right. 35 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:17,000 Yes. 36 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,280 I think that's a pretty good base definition to start from for this. 37 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,600 And it's differentiated from like people who abstain from sex. 38 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,440 Because the others are like a conscious decision. 39 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:27,440 Yeah. 40 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:28,440 Yeah. 41 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:29,440 Right. 42 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,440 And I think a common, like one misconception, we'll have lots of these, but one of the first 43 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,800 ones is just the idea that asexual people never have sex. 44 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:38,920 True or false? 45 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:39,920 False. 46 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:40,920 Correct. 47 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:41,920 Yes. 48 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:47,640 There are lots of reasons why people who identify as asexual might still have sex. 49 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:52,320 They do, some still do experience sexual desire. 50 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,280 Or you know, there's lots of other reasons to have sex. 51 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:57,120 It's a way to feel close to a partner. 52 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:02,120 It's a way to make a child, if that's something you're interested in doing. 53 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,720 It's not saying that you're asexual doesn't immediately mean that you never engage in 54 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:07,720 sex. 55 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:08,960 Or that you think sex is gross. 56 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:09,960 True. 57 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:10,960 Right. 58 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:11,960 Some do. 59 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:12,960 Sure. 60 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,640 Because all of these things exist on a, I was going to say spectrum, but I like continuum. 61 00:02:15,640 --> 00:02:16,640 Yes. 62 00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:17,640 Because there's no outer limits. 63 00:02:17,640 --> 00:02:18,640 Right. 64 00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:19,640 Right. 65 00:02:19,640 --> 00:02:24,440 So we can pick any two points and every space in between exists. 66 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:25,440 Right. 67 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:26,440 Right. 68 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,920 Which is true of I think all the gender and sexuality conversations we're going to have. 69 00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:31,920 Yeah. 70 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:35,840 So one spectrum that we commonly talk about is the Kinsey scale. 71 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,680 We talk about how you can be anywhere from quote unquote gay to straight and anywhere 72 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:41,680 in between. 73 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,280 And we're, people are, it's a one, two, three, four, five, six. 74 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,980 But I think the most important takeaway from that is not necessarily the scale or which 75 00:02:48,980 --> 00:02:52,600 number are you, but just the idea that you can be somewhere in between. 76 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:58,680 So then if we take that same sort of scale or gradation and we apply it to your gender, 77 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:05,080 we apply it to your desire for sex, to your desire for romantic connections or whatever, 78 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:09,120 then you can have all these dials where you're like, I'm kind of over here and I'm kind of 79 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,920 over there and I'm kind of over here, but in this situation I'm over there. 80 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:12,920 Right. 81 00:03:12,920 --> 00:03:17,960 So the other thing I'll say about asexuality is I feel like it's kind of having its moment 82 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:19,280 a little bit right now. 83 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:20,280 You know, like I think- 84 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:21,280 More visibility? 85 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:22,280 Yeah. 86 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:30,240 I think both trans and ace are kind of starting to be more widely adopted, starting to be 87 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,300 talked about more and more and more people are feeling more comfortable adopting those 88 00:03:34,300 --> 00:03:40,480 labels or identifying that way as an easy way to help others understand them. 89 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:41,480 Which is wonderful. 90 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:42,480 Yeah. 91 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:43,480 Right. 92 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:48,160 So the second part of the Aero Ace episode is Aero, standing for aromantic. 93 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:49,160 Yeah. 94 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,840 Which in my understanding is challenging to define. 95 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:54,840 Yeah. 96 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,120 Oh, I like the way you- Yes, it is challenging. 97 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:00,120 You're right. 98 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:04,200 Because you're trying to give a definition to what is romance, what is romantic. 99 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:05,200 Indeed. 100 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,520 Which is I think kind of a personal thing. 101 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:12,320 Even sex can be a lot of different things to different people, but romantic, that word 102 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,240 can be even more things. 103 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:15,240 It's so nebulous. 104 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:16,240 Yes. 105 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,640 And it's so highly individualized to the person, like their understanding their definition 106 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:21,640 of it. 107 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:27,920 So people who identify as aromantic can be anything from someone who really enjoys sex 108 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:34,920 and maybe enjoys friendship connections, but doesn't really connect with some of the things 109 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:36,400 that we identify as romantic. 110 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,200 So maybe like holding hands or writing love letters or- 111 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,000 They don't hold the same importance. 112 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,840 Yeah, it's kind of like they could maybe go through the motions of that, but not really 113 00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:49,880 feel that kind of the romantic-y feelings that other people associate with those kinds 114 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,000 of activities. 115 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,280 And there are other people on the other side of things where if they're also asexual, so 116 00:04:56,280 --> 00:04:59,000 it might be aromantic. 117 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,900 People might think, oh, that means you never experienced love or you don't care deeply 118 00:05:02,900 --> 00:05:05,240 about people, and that's also not true. 119 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:06,240 Right. 120 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:11,560 An aromantic person can still experience love and still share those kinds of connections. 121 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:12,560 Grow strong bonds. 122 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:18,840 Yeah, it's just a different, like they could feel really strongly and deeply love their 123 00:05:18,840 --> 00:05:23,720 friends but not really want to cuddle with them or not really want to hold hands or kiss 124 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:31,560 or do romantic gestures or any of those things that are hallmarks of romance. 125 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,320 Or they just wouldn't need those gestures in order to feel that kind of connection with 126 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:36,320 somebody. 127 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:37,320 Sure, yeah. 128 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:38,920 That's the other side of it. 129 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:46,880 That's another spectrum is all the way from lack of desiring it to lack of expecting it. 130 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,920 Yeah, it kind of feels like what you're saying. 131 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:50,920 Yeah. 132 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:51,920 Right. 133 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,320 Most people would be like, oh, I'm doing these things for you because I want to show you 134 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:57,400 that I love you or that I care or you're important to me. 135 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,600 And they may have a completely different definition for what it takes for that feeling to come 136 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:02,600 across. 137 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:03,600 Yeah. 138 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:04,600 You don't actually need to do those things for me. 139 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,640 I didn't ask for them. 140 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:07,640 Right. 141 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:15,600 Sure, I think it can be really interesting for aero and ace people in relationships because 142 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:20,800 they might define a relationship in a particular way and the other person in that partnership 143 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,880 or relationship may think differently or have a different label for what the two of them 144 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:30,440 share and that's okay because that's just, you know, I personally have had people that 145 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:35,160 I considered partners that would have probably just called me a friend as far as what word 146 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,680 they would use and I would consider them a partner because of how much I prioritize them 147 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:39,680 in my life. 148 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,040 So yeah, let's talk about the other versions of that. 149 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:46,640 So alloromantic and allosexual would be someone who does experience those things. 150 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:47,640 Right. 151 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:48,640 Which would be you. 152 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:49,640 Right? 153 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:50,640 That would be me. 154 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:51,640 Yes. 155 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,520 I identify as both, which just means that I do have those things. 156 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:59,720 I don't know if you could say very much more or less than your average person because it's 157 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,960 not like a hyper focus on them, but they are part of my... 158 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,680 It might be the other is like hypersexual. 159 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:07,680 Right? 160 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:08,680 Or hyper romantic. 161 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:09,680 Yeah. 162 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:11,240 I don't know. 163 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:12,240 That might exist. 164 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,920 I'm sure some people identify as that like, oh, I'm very, very, very much this. 165 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:16,920 Yeah. 166 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:17,920 To an extreme. 167 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:18,920 Absolutely. 168 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,080 I would say my experience is more like a middle road. 169 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:23,080 Yeah. 170 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:29,920 One of the ways I would like to explore since we're doing this topic with a person who identifies 171 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,960 as this label is kind of telling, I think, I don't know if this is the formula we'll 172 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:39,920 use for all of our episodes, but kind of hearing a story of like, how did you arrive at this 173 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:40,920 label? 174 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:41,920 Yeah. 175 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,560 I want to know how you got to this space where, how did you learn this about yourself? 176 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:46,560 Okay. 177 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:51,020 So I think for a lot of people, I would imagine this is true for a lot of people with whatever 178 00:07:51,020 --> 00:07:55,680 their label is, that once they've found it and then they look back on their past, they're 179 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,680 like, oh, yep. 180 00:07:58,680 --> 00:07:59,680 Okay. 181 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:00,680 Ah. 182 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:09,040 So I mean, I will tell you the story of my first ever boyfriend, which was in seventh 183 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:10,040 grade. 184 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,400 So I've crushed on him and I don't remember who wrote who a note. 185 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:17,340 One of us wrote a note to the other asking them out. 186 00:08:17,340 --> 00:08:19,640 They replied by note saying yes. 187 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:25,760 So we were technically dating and we avoided each other at every possible chance for the 188 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:30,760 next week until I think it was him that wrote me a note and was like, we probably should 189 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:31,760 break up. 190 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:32,760 And I was like, yeah. 191 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:33,760 Wow. 192 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:39,960 And that was my first romantic experience. 193 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:46,400 So do you remember what it felt like, why you felt like that feeling was called a crush? 194 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:51,080 I now would describe what I probably felt was that I thought they were aesthetically 195 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:52,840 pleasing. 196 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:58,160 I thought they were cute to look at and they seemed like a nice person. 197 00:08:58,160 --> 00:08:59,160 And that was it. 198 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:00,560 And I was like, that must be what I'm feeling. 199 00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:03,560 I think you had a good idea of that. 200 00:09:03,560 --> 00:09:08,280 What I didn't understand is that for other people, those feelings also came with a desire 201 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:13,800 for closeness and a desire to share certain activities that I didn't want to do. 202 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:14,800 Wow. 203 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:15,800 Okay. 204 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:17,520 So I feel like your friends, maybe they were excited for you. 205 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,560 That's an exciting thing for a adolescent. 206 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:23,800 But then if you had told them, you're like, oh yeah. 207 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:24,800 And he said yes. 208 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:25,800 And they're like, well, what are you going to do? 209 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,400 And you're like, I don't want to do anything. 210 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:34,200 I hope I never see him again. 211 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:35,920 Yep. 212 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,560 Wow. 213 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:39,560 It's funny. 214 00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:41,880 And then when you broke up, you were like relieved. 215 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:42,880 Oh yes. 216 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:43,880 Very much. 217 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:44,880 Very much. 218 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:46,360 And that's been true with other relationships as well. 219 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,840 So then we fast forward to high school, very similar thing occurred. 220 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:54,760 I was crushing on a guy and found out that he liked me too. 221 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:56,960 We started dating. 222 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,480 That time we actually did go and hang out in person on things. 223 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,120 And I was like, wow, I hope he doesn't kiss me. 224 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:04,880 I really don't want to hold his hand. 225 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,840 I hope that nothing physical occurs. 226 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:09,840 You're on the same pins and needles. 227 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:10,840 But it's so nice that he likes me. 228 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:11,840 It's so great. 229 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:12,840 That's so cool. 230 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:13,840 I like him and he likes me. 231 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:14,840 That's lovely. 232 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:20,800 And I think maybe I could be misremembering it, but I think maybe he cheated on me with 233 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,520 someone else and he felt really bad about it. 234 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,120 And I was like, no, that's cool. 235 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:27,560 You should probably go date her. 236 00:10:27,560 --> 00:10:30,200 That's cool. 237 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:31,320 You weren't even mad about it. 238 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:32,320 Of course not. 239 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,880 I was relieved yet again because I was in the situation that I didn't actually want 240 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:37,880 to be in. 241 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:43,840 But the funny thing for me in recounting them is just how much it screams at you once you've 242 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,400 adopted the label, it just screams at you. 243 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:51,800 So later in life, you look back at those times and went, ah, I see. 244 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:52,800 Yes. 245 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,760 So we'll fast forward again. 246 00:10:55,760 --> 00:11:04,440 And then now I'm in college and I had sex for the first time with a partner that I didn't 247 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:05,440 actually want to. 248 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:10,360 So it was the first time I felt I had a partner that I did want to kiss and I did want to 249 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:11,360 hold hands with. 250 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,640 I did want to have sex with and we did and it was great and I was excited. 251 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,360 I'm so glad it was a positive experience. 252 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,280 So then I was like, yeah, let's get married. 253 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:21,280 Which we did. 254 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,640 No, actually he was the one that wanted to, but yes. 255 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,040 And also I just thought, well, this is what you do. 256 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,800 I spent that many years and this is the first time I've ever wanted this. 257 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:30,440 So this must be my one. 258 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:31,440 It must be the one. 259 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:32,440 The one. 260 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,000 That's what people mean when they say the one. 261 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,000 Or not. 262 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:38,000 Or not. 263 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:39,000 Your mileage may vary. 264 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:40,000 Yeah. 265 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,000 Yeah. 266 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,160 I don't want to get into too many details about each of these because there's a lot 267 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:45,160 to tell. 268 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:50,960 But as that relationship ended, I started a new relationship with Elliot and we started 269 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,560 out as non-monogamous right from the get go. 270 00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:59,560 And I didn't really have a clear sense of what that would mean, but in popular culture, 271 00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:02,720 most of my exposure to non-monogamy had been swinging. 272 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,120 And so I thought, okay, we're going to be non-monogamous. 273 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,320 That means we're going to have a lot of fun, crazy sex with people. 274 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:13,320 So I was kind of like going into it thinking like, yeah, I'm going to have a lot of fun. 275 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:18,880 I have very few sexual experiences in my life and it'll be a blast. 276 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,720 So that didn't sound weird to you or gross at all. 277 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:24,520 You were just like, oh no, I might like that. 278 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,280 No, I mean a lot of other people were doing it and it seemed like they were having a lot 279 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:28,280 of fun. 280 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:29,280 Yeah. 281 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:30,280 You're like, why not me? 282 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:31,280 It seems great. 283 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:32,280 I was like, all right. 284 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:35,720 But you didn't have these thoughts about it like, this has been so rare for me so far. 285 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,680 I don't anticipate it being difficult to connect with. 286 00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:41,000 No, it was just not clicking for me. 287 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,880 So I just wasn't putting those pieces together yet. 288 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:50,440 I thought maybe, and I've seen other ACE people say this, I thought, I was raised religious. 289 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:55,880 I thought maybe I had some really strong repression going on. 290 00:12:55,880 --> 00:13:02,200 So I thought once I break free of all that, then I'm just going to be having a blast, 291 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,680 party party all over. 292 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:05,680 Cool. 293 00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:06,680 Did that happen? 294 00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:09,680 Not what happened. 295 00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:15,120 I often got in a lot of situations where I was like, okay, so we do this and we do this 296 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:21,280 and we do this and then everything will fall into place and I'll feel the things I'm supposed 297 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:22,280 to feel. 298 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:23,280 Right? 299 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,760 Like this person's really cute and they want to hang out with me, so let's hang out. 300 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,320 And then the expectation is that things go to the bedroom and I'm like, yeah, okay, that's 301 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:31,320 what we do. 302 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:37,800 So I ended up honestly having sex with a lot of people that I didn't ultimately want to 303 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:43,560 have sex with because I felt like I was following the script and that at some point it would 304 00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:46,560 feel right and it didn't feel right. 305 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:49,560 It just continued to not feel right each time. 306 00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:52,920 So you would regret it afterwards? 307 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:53,920 Or like during? 308 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:54,920 Would you have this realization during? 309 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:55,920 Oh, for sure. 310 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:56,920 Oh, wow. 311 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:57,920 It wasn't... 312 00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:59,920 Yeah, like immediately kind of once it starts, you're like, oh. 313 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:02,800 This was a bad decision. 314 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:08,040 And with newer partners, you may or may not feel safe sharing something like that. 315 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,360 Especially if you do still want to build a connection with them. 316 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,320 I never knew if maybe it would come in time. 317 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:19,280 So I would fear if I rejected them in that moment and that was the end of it, then it's 318 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:24,360 like, oh, but maybe in time I would have eventually felt that desire or it would have sprung up 319 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:25,360 out of somewhere. 320 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:26,360 Wow. 321 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,080 So you're trying to give it enough time to where you really knew. 322 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:31,080 Yeah, I thought maybe... 323 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:32,880 Like I think this is definitely not going to happen. 324 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:40,080 Hadn't clicked in place yet or I hadn't quite finished dealing with my, I don't know, repressed... 325 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,120 But that happened commonly? 326 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:49,800 It was very frequent for the other person to feel more than I was feeling. 327 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,000 To want more than I could offer. 328 00:14:52,000 --> 00:15:00,960 That is a repeated experience in my relationships of all time. 329 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,360 That is almost always what occurs. 330 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:11,280 So I remember you once telling me that it was like, that kind of made you a little wary. 331 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:15,120 At a certain point you got to the point where when you were starting new relationships, 332 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:20,160 you were almost like, is this going to be a thing I feel? 333 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,520 New relationships kind of got scary. 334 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:23,520 Right? 335 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:24,520 Yeah. 336 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,560 And because I've had some of those other negative experiences, I kind of started giving up on 337 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,440 the idea of like, well, we could still be friends. 338 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,400 Let's try friendship because so many people didn't handle that well. 339 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,200 Yeah, they wanted it to be more. 340 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:37,440 Or they'd say, yeah, that's fine. 341 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:42,240 And then they'd give me those eyes and I'd be like, oh my God, I'm just going to disappoint 342 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,280 you every time we spend time together. 343 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,220 You're just going to want things that I can't give you. 344 00:15:47,220 --> 00:15:51,520 So it put pressure on you, this unrequitedness that they were feeling. 345 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:52,520 Oh yeah. 346 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:53,520 Oh wow. 347 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,000 Even if they didn't verbally pressure you. 348 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:01,040 No, I'm just fairly empathetic and I can sense what's in the air. 349 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:02,040 Oh my. 350 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:03,040 Yeah. 351 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:07,440 Man, that sounds like, so at a certain point though, I have to imagine that it becomes 352 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,380 not just an obstacle you have to overcome or you just keep looking for the one rare 353 00:16:11,380 --> 00:16:16,220 individual of, oh, I do have this with this person, so let's give this a shot. 354 00:16:16,220 --> 00:16:22,040 Or I think a lot of people before they find labels that work for them feel broken. 355 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:23,040 Right. 356 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,800 So at a certain point, when did you realize that this was normal and it's just a way to 357 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,920 understand yourself and you didn't feel like it was something you lacked or were broken 358 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:32,920 about? 359 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,440 I mean, I feel like that was a very recent realization. 360 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:36,440 Oh wow. 361 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:41,160 So you haven't even had a whole lot of experience not feeling broken about it. 362 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:42,160 Yeah. 363 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:43,160 Yeah. 364 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:51,480 And I got really, I really struggled with seeing myself as a heartbreaker because I 365 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:52,480 felt- 366 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,280 You were just leaving a path of destruction in your wake. 367 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:55,680 That is what it felt like, yeah. 368 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:56,680 Wow. 369 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:01,720 Because I just couldn't reciprocate with so many, like there were so many people that 370 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:06,320 I met and this is something that I thought was really, I've heard other ace people describe 371 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,400 it and I find it really interesting, which is talking, I kept bringing up how aesthetically 372 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,120 pleasing someone is. 373 00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:14,560 You're like, I do feel like they are attractive. 374 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:15,560 Yes, right. 375 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:16,560 So you might assume- 376 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,320 Does that mean I am attracted? 377 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:23,080 You might assume that I never experienced attraction, never think people are cute, I'm 378 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,160 never drawn to people and that's actually not true. 379 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,880 I am and I do find people really hot. 380 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:31,880 I'm like, oh man, that person. 381 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:36,200 But I heard someone describe it this way and they're like, I find that person hot the same 382 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:41,800 way I find a really beautifully organized bookshelf hot that's got the color schemes 383 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:43,360 all looking good or like, ooh. 384 00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:44,640 You can say that's beautiful. 385 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,720 That painting is really, ooh, wow, that is beautiful. 386 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:49,560 It's evocative. 387 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,560 I feel something, I'm feeling something about it. 388 00:17:53,560 --> 00:18:01,680 I've learned now over time that that feeling does not mean that I also want to be physically 389 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,200 close to them. 390 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:09,320 Those two have nothing to do with each other and that was very weird and very hard because 391 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,440 it was very clear to me that for other people, those things connect. 392 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:13,440 Yes. 393 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:14,440 Oh my gosh. 394 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:20,400 For other people, those things connect in an unspokenly assumed way that is just like, 395 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,000 they can't imagine one without the other. 396 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,000 I know. 397 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:28,800 You find me hot, therefore you want me is the assumption. 398 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:29,800 And it's like I do. 399 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,600 I want to be close to that person. 400 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,240 I'd love to keep looking at them. 401 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:34,240 Sure. 402 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:35,240 But I don't. 403 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:36,240 It's like you are hot. 404 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,720 Want them to touch me necessarily. 405 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:39,720 End of sentence. 406 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:44,080 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 407 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,680 I think to bring this all back to a poly context, which is important, we're not necessarily 408 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:53,120 here just to talk about what it's like to be ace or aro. 409 00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:59,760 I think being ace and aro in the poly world can be a blessing and a curse at the same 410 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:00,760 time. 411 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:07,040 I think it feels like a really good match for me as an aro ace person because it gives 412 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:14,440 me more freedom to express who I want to be in any given connection and not feel like 413 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,800 I'm holding a partner back from finding, you know, if sex is something that's really important 414 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:23,320 to them, then I'm not holding them back from finding that somewhere else if I'm not offering 415 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:24,320 that. 416 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:25,320 Right. 417 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,440 So you felt like another instance where you felt relief about it. 418 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:28,440 Yes. 419 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,440 But on the other side of it, where it feels a little bit like a curse in poly is that 420 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,120 I am dating more people and finding more people and making more connections. 421 00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:45,760 And it's most, I'm going to say most, a lot of people who are more aro or maybe if we're 422 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:53,120 going to say hyper, any of these, do prioritize connections that are romantic or sexual or 423 00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:57,200 both often over platonic connections. 424 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:58,960 You've had that happen to you before. 425 00:19:58,960 --> 00:19:59,960 Right. 426 00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:06,840 So I have to kind of accept that for a lot of the connections in my world, we might be 427 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:11,120 mismatched in how much we prioritize that connection. 428 00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:16,480 I might prioritize it very highly because what we do share is very special to me. 429 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:22,960 And I don't, you know, I of course don't mind it not having those pieces and I have to accept 430 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:28,800 that for them missing the romantic connection or missing the sexual connection can be like 431 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:29,800 kind of a deal breaker. 432 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,080 It's just, it's not that they don't appreciate me or enjoy spending time with me. 433 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:40,240 It's just that the lack of those things, those things are really important to them and they 434 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:45,400 want to prioritize and offer time to the people in their lives who are sharing those things 435 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,360 with them, which is their right to do. 436 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:50,240 It's just, it can be hard to watch. 437 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:51,240 Right. 438 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,120 And they've decided that's a need for them and that's good. 439 00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:54,840 Yeah, it's totally fine. 440 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,560 It's something that I have to work through and kind of come to terms with. 441 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:08,720 And it's part of me being my authentic self is knowing that I might be mismatched in the 442 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:13,100 overlap I can offer with a lot of people. 443 00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:17,320 So arrow and aceness aren't your whole identity. 444 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:18,320 It's not your whole being. 445 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:19,320 For sure. 446 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:20,320 Right. 447 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:25,080 So how does this new adoption of those terms interact with the rest of the way that you 448 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:26,080 understand yourself? 449 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:31,680 Yeah, that part has been really interesting to me because what I have discovered ultimately 450 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:40,400 is for me, ace and arrow, that label being gray, ace, arrow overshadows any other label. 451 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:41,640 Oh, wow. 452 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:46,560 Because I mean, I could be Polly all I want, but I'm not because it's so rare for me to 453 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,600 have a sexual and romantic desire for people. 454 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,600 I am rarely sharing that kind of connection with more than one person. 455 00:21:53,600 --> 00:22:00,880 I can look, I can play mono on TV pretty easily through the course of my time being Polly. 456 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:05,160 You could, I could, I could, you know, fake it. 457 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,400 You were functionally mono a lot of that time. 458 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:08,400 Yes. 459 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:13,680 And that's not because I'm not fully embracing the Polly label or I'm like, feel like I shouldn't 460 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:14,680 feel that way. 461 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,440 It's just that like, it's so rare for me to find people I want to share that with that 462 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,560 I rarely find more than one at the same time. 463 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:29,720 So yeah, so I've found that and that also hugely, hugely, hugely overshadows my pansexuality 464 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:39,040 because when it comes to non hetero connections, you know, there's a smaller pool, you know, 465 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,840 if you're, or if you're looking for a non hetero connection, there's a smaller pool 466 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,720 of people who are interested in sharing that with you. 467 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:52,040 And so if we take what to me feels like a one in a million kind of pool of like people 468 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:57,240 I'm attracted to, and then I have to go look, go fishing in this pool of people who would 469 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:03,400 actually be interested in sharing that with me and find that one person that I actually 470 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,960 would experience that kind of connection with. 471 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,480 It feels like it would never happen. 472 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,080 And it hasn't happened yet. 473 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,400 I've mostly had hetero relationships. 474 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:15,760 So right. 475 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,800 I love hearing your perspective and the way you describe these things because it's so 476 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:20,800 different from mine. 477 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:21,800 Yeah. 478 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,640 Well, that's, that's part of what we're trying to do. 479 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,920 I think with this kind of series is share different kinds of voices. 480 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:28,920 Yeah. 481 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:29,920 Yeah. 482 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:34,960 So as we wrap up the Aero Ace episode, I think it would be fun if you want to know more or 483 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:41,000 want to hear another person's experience about this, check out the YouTuber Jaden animations 484 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:46,640 they did a fantastic animated video and like kind of a, it's almost kind of conversational 485 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,280 journal entry about it where they described their experience. 486 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:55,320 The name of the video is called being not straight and you can find it on YouTube. 487 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,320 It's like 18 million. 488 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,280 I felt very seen watching that. 489 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:00,280 Really? 490 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:01,280 Yes. 491 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:02,280 Yeah, that was a good one. 492 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,400 Well, I guess that's our Aero Ace show. 493 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:05,400 Awesome. 494 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:11,560 I don't have a lot of personal details about me, but hopefully it gave you some ideas of 495 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:18,280 what it might be like in my head, in my world, in this label and hopefully other Ace Aero 496 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,880 people identify with at least parts of my story or, or maybe not. 497 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,620 Maybe they have completely different stories and if you'd love to, if you'd like to send 498 00:24:25,620 --> 00:24:31,360 us a message about that, podcast at mindfulpoly.com, be happy to hear other stories. 499 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:33,040 Please write in, share your experience. 500 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,040 Yeah. 501 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:35,800 I think that would be great. 502 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,840 And we do intend to do future episodes on other experiences as well. 503 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:40,840 Absolutely. 504 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:41,840 I'd love to hear more. 505 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:42,840 Yep. 506 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,800 Other identifications and, and labels and stuff. 507 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,040 So yeah, thanks for joining us. 508 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,040 This is mindfulpoly. 509 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,040 We'll see you next time. 510 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:51,040 Yeah. 511 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:52,040 Bye. 512 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:53,040 Bye. 513 00:24:53,040 --> 00:25:02,680 I did some really fun vamping while you were gone. 514 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:03,680 I believe it. 515 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:04,680 I can see it. 516 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:05,680 Yeah. 517 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:06,680 I recorded a lot of stuff. 518 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:33,680 You're going to have fun editing that.