Welcome to Mindful Poly.
Welcome.
I'm Fox.
And I'm Nova.
Today we're going to talk about the Relationship Escalator.
Yeah.
This is part of our Milestones series.
Mm-hmm.
Because the Relationship Escalator is made up entirely of milestones.
Yeah.
Really, it's a good one to start a milestone series off on, isn't it?
It may have inspired the name of the series.
No way.
Ah, I believe so.
So, where do we start?
What is the Relationship Escalator?
Yeah, I think that's where we start.
So, the Relationship Escalator is sort of an unspoken but well-known set of steps that
we assume each relationship we get into will go through.
Sort of as, we tend to think of, without realizing it, we often think of them as markers of the
validity and importance of the relationship.
So, that might be going for titles like saying boyfriend-girlfriend or getting engaged or
getting a home or having a child or…
Maybe staying overnight for the first time.
Yeah.
Going on a trip together.
Mm-hmm.
Moving in together.
These are almost all involved in relationships.
Yes.
Because it is the Relationship Escalator, of course.
But, it's also about first you go to school, get a job, get a career, work, and then retire.
We have milestones for just life.
That would be an escalator.
Yes.
And I think with all of those, it's not just about the commitment you two are making to
each other, it's also about all of the validation you get from every possible facet of society
about the validity of that relationship and how important it is and how seriously you
are taking it.
So, a lot of the Relationship Escalator is actually rooted in sociological terms and
those being norms.
It's a societal norm, the expectation that all relationships follow an escalator.
So, norms are all around us all the time.
We take them for granted.
It's very easy, too.
We just, they are the things that feel default, feel easy.
And sometimes we don't even know that we're doing them until we've broken one or we see
someone else breaking one.
So, this can happen when you maybe come out to someone as being poly or when you and a
new partner realize you can't take the next step on the escalator.
You realize, oh, we are breaking this escalator norm that we didn't even know we were following.
We didn't even know about the existence of the escalator.
Typical monogamous culture doesn't have a name for it, really.
We call it, I don't know, there are similar things like the nuclear family, the typical
American dream of career house, 2.5 kids, white picket fence, that kind of thing.
Those are portrayed as the goals.
And how we get there is we're nudged that way, kind of steered that way, reinforced
that way.
But it's not like we have a class on that in school.
We didn't learn that as like, here is the course your life will take.
Yeah.
So, in sociology, they have a term for it, which is sanctions.
And those are sort of the ways that we keep each other in line.
Sort of these informal little tweaks and nudges we give each other.
Maybe it's a, you know, like a licking a scant or it could be something as extreme as, you
know, like some people who come out as poly get their families kind of disappear or don't
want to be around them or friends don't want to be exposed to that kind of thing.
So, there are all kinds of ways that we sanction and communicate our disapproval and the fact
that you haven't fallen in line.
We have to other them, show them that they've done something wrong.
You're weird.
Why are you doing this?
I am so weird.
Yeah.
Did you know you're weird?
I'm very weird.
Yeah.
I like that about you.
I've done so many weird things over my life.
Yeah.
But I got even weirder when I became non-managable.
Totally.
At least societally.
Well, you're by their standards, yes.
By my standards, it's wonderful.
One time, me and my previous partner went to I went to my family for Thanksgiving and
she went to hers for Thanksgiving and everyone freaked out.
They were like, oh, is there trouble in your relationship?
What's wrong?
What's wrong with your marriage?
Like, why?
Why isn't he here?
Why isn't she here?
Like, the expectation was that, oh, we got sanctioned for that one, like that you do
everything together.
Oh, yeah.
And even though we were like, it was to us, it was like such a hassle to drive around
between different cities and see everyone on every holiday.
And we're like, well, this year, I'll do that one, you do this one, and then we'll, you
know, we'll go to both to one next year or something.
Like, it just seemed like, oh, my gosh, that would make things so much easier.
It seems like actually a perfectly normal solution.
Right.
But just not in our culture.
No.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
So that was a norm we broke and got sanctioned for.
So when we're talking about poly people following the escalator, there are a lot of reasons
that we, as poly people, default to the escalator, like we've just talked about.
And it's also just sort of, I think it's sort of like pressing the easy button to relationship
security.
One, one example of a step on the escalator is spending more and more time together.
So if I offer you more and more time, more and more dates, I'm signaling like, you're
important to me, I care about you.
It's a it's an easy way to give you that security.
That's how I know I'm more important to you.
Yeah.
Or that things are going well.
I just I also think that as we hop off the escalator with partners, the steps we're taking
that are not in that direction, we have to be really careful because I think it's really
for those signals to be interpreted as like to trigger insecurity and to trigger jealousy.
Oh my gosh.
It comes up all the time.
Yeah.
So I think it might be helpful to explore some of the positive aspects of jumping off
the escalator.
Yes.
One one thing that I have experienced as a positive is like there was a recent connection
I met on an online dating app and we had a lot of fun chatting like they were like fun
and quirky and we shared photos and we brightened each other's days and we talked for like a
couple months and it kind of faded off and that's OK.
Like it didn't escalate at all.
We never even met in person.
It's like super not escalator and I still really enjoyed having that person in my life.
I think you know there's still a possibility we might reconnect again in the future and
I'm OK either way.
I value the time that we shared and the energy that we offered each other and it doesn't
have to be more than that to still be meaningful.
Yeah.
So the relationship escalator would have wanted you to to keep investing.
Or that it's not meaningful because it didn't escalate.
Oh yes.
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
They mean nothing because we never even met.
Like if I told a mono person oh there's this person that was really special to me for a
little bit there.
They're like oh well did you meet.
Did you go on dates.
Did you have sex.
Did you know.
No.
So it allows you to have the freedom to appreciate connections I think in a different way if
you're not on the escalator.
It's like we didn't check any of the boxes and it doesn't matter.
Yeah.
You're writing your own script.
Yeah.
So like what are some examples of times when you have stepped off the escalator in your
relationships your poly relationships.
Well one that comes to mind is I have a long distance relationship.
My partner River lives far away in a distant land.
Distant magical.
And the fairies.
Like I keep I don't make this joke often but it does make me think of like my girlfriend
who lives in Canada like the the song from Avenue Q.
Oh I never saw that.
Yeah it's where it's kind of a societal trope where if someone is like trying to fit in
into society be like oh I have relationships I have they just live far away.
Oh yeah.
And then you never they've made up a person.
That just makes me think of like Brack who has one two eleven imaginary girlfriends.
Yes.
And all the imaginary girlfriends are into me buddy.
Well I've always thought of it like the because you're trying to avoid sanctions you want
to appear normal.
Yes.
You know.
So it's like oh I have those it's good.
So my relationship with River he and I have decided that we like.
So the things that we've chosen are well I don't want to put words in their mouth because
they may use different words.
But what I want to do for that relationship is treat it like a partner like an equal partner
who isn't less important just because they're geographically far away from me.
So the relationship escalator would want like a long distance relationship to be I don't
know considered less important like people wouldn't.
Yeah.
Because you can't do certain things you know.
Well certain things you can't do purely by practical reasons.
I can't see them every week.
I mean we actually I do.
Or in person every day.
Yeah in person every day.
We do a lot of things a different way like we do video chats and stuff.
But like.
Oh god that is kind of in person.
It's a different kind of in person.
Yeah.
But we find other ways to honor that and make those those milestones happen.
Like we don't exchange gifts in person but we mail them to each other.
Like that kind of thing.
Yeah.
But yeah that was a very non escalator thing.
It's like I have a long distance relationship and it's just as important to me as my the
people that live down the street.
Yeah.
OK.
Have you have you guys experienced any bumps like because you can't follow the traditional
kinds of escalator steps.
I think there are definitely some tricky things about long distance ones that are they're
going to be really different for everyone.
Yeah.
It's going to be really specific to me what I've had to adjust to and the ways in which
I adjusted.
But as far as outside sanctions because of it I'm actually really delighted to report.
No.
I once told a friend about my long distance relationship who lives in another state and
they were like oh that's amazing.
And then he asked me all these questions and then I was like oh by the way they're visiting
and they may come like hang out like we're going to.
I was talking to a bandmate and I said they may come to band practice and they were just
like oh I can't wait to meet them.
They sound great.
And then there's also the fact that my partner's family have been so accepting and open and
welcome and stuff and I just think these are almost just bragging now at this point.
I feel like it's super lucky.
But they've treated me.
It's always helpful to feel grateful for the things that are worth feeling grateful about.
Absolutely.
They've invited me to family events.
And they know I'll have to fly to get there or drive or something.
But like I still got invited or treated because I'm important to River that I'm important
to them.
Like I'm like oh that's so wonderful.
So that was the opposite of a sanction.
They were encouraging us even though we were doing some sort of weird non-monogamous outside
the relationship escalator.
Yeah.
It's almost like extra special to be validated and to be to get hits of security.
Yes.
When you aren't following the escalator.
Yes.
It makes it feel even more special.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Oh so here's something I wanted to bring up.
An example of a relationship escalator thing that polyamorous people do a lot is share
calendars.
Oh my god.
You kind of know it's gotten a little serious when you have access to their calendar.
That's trust.
Yeah.
It's getting serious.
It feels so validating right?
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
And then it makes planning dates so much easier.
Oh my god.
Like I don't have access to your partner's calendar but I have access to yours and I
can see your events with other people.
True.
Yeah.
And it also I think it can sometimes kind of fuel if you are prone to compersion it
can fuel compersion a little bit to be like oh my partner is doing something really cool
today.
Like.
Yeah.
Can we do.
Hey how was that?
How did that go?
Yeah.
And it can also conversely kind of lead to some insecurities too.
Truth.
You get a very clear qualitative not qualitative quantitative view of oh they made so many
dates with this other person.
Yes.
Yeah.
That's true.
Or you just see how much how many days or weeks it's been since your last date.
Because that's I mean I think that's one thing we haven't talked about with the escalator
is because it is such an important like societal tool to know where you stand in a relationship
that if you see your partner offering other partners a chance to get higher on the escalator
than you are how do you cope with the feelings that that brings up for you and how can you
find ways to validate and feel secure in relationships.
Oh my gosh.
That is so heavy.
It is hard.
I mean it.
I cannot say personally that I am a pro at this but I am always aspiring to be better.
Well I think we touched on this a little bit in our insecurity episode.
Which was the internal versus external forms of validation.
Yes.
And that isn't a cure all but it does really help and help mitigate the impact of when
your feet when those insecure feelings pops up.
Yeah that's a great because in insecurity we talked about how it might not be about
you.
So yeah I mean there might be a lot of reasons why.
For example if you're if you're looking at a calendar and you're seeing that your partner
is sharing a lot of time with another partner that that isn't about you.
You know like that might be all kinds of other things that are part of that.
That is a relationship that you are not in.
But it's just we are so in some ways societally hardwired to interpret it a certain way.
So you and Stevie kind of have a have chosen not to follow the escalator as well.
Yes in other ways.
Yeah.
Well one I don't have access to Stevie's calendar.
Oh.
But that is not.
Stevie has a key to my house.
How's that.
I have a key to Stevie's house.
But like you would think I would be maybe triggered or at least like that might be a
signal about something that I don't have access to the calendar.
Or maybe someone might have trouble with that.
Like just like well you shared it with this person and this person why not me.
And in this instance I just have sorry to disappoint I'm not bothered by it.
That was her choice you know to me to offer that or not.
There are other things that we're very what's the word not entangled but escalated in.
Sure.
And like we but not so much to the to the same milestone path as my other relationships
like Stevie and I don't use the term partner per se.
We started as metas.
And then we our connection grew and we wanted something is like meta plus plus.
We call each other plus.
Yeah.
And I really like it when people start forging their own escalator.
Yeah.
You guys.
Defining it their way.
Yeah.
More than more than almost any relationship I can currently think of you guys have really
forged.
The two of you it feels like you guys have been very intentional about what steps forward
are we taking in what I shouldn't even say forward.
What steps are we taking in what ways.
See forward is wrong.
I hope you leave that in because that's that's perfect.
That's how we're wired to break this way.
Right.
Yes.
So what steps what do we want to share.
Where do we overlap.
What are we willing to offer each other.
And what exactly what and what are the edges of that.
What things do we not want to offer what things are we not interested in doing right.
And how you do that kindly and compassionately and all.
And you know it's it's all this like you know trust wrapped up in it and like but then to
the point where every time you don't offer someone something is is that always a bad
thing.
So yeah those are just examples about the relationship escalator.
Yeah.
And some interesting stories surrounding it.
What do we go from here.
What's the next step on our escalator of this episode.
Oh dear.
You went there.
I'm sorry.
I am still remembering this moment a couple days ago when you were like oh my gosh I'm
such a dad.
Oh when it came.
Yeah.
Because in our relationship I am a bit more involved in the co-parenting.
Yeah.
OK.
So thank you for joining us.
Yeah.
Thanks for being here.
This is really fun.
This is really interesting.
I love philosophy sociology and psychology.
So anytime we can dive into those a little bit as we're exploring these just lights me
up a bit.
And despite any hiccups in the recording process which you won't know about because we're going
to cut this out.
Yeah.
Only I get to know about those.
Yeah.
All my human experiences.
Yes.
That my spirit had during this episode.
Yeah.
This is an important topic.
It is a super important topic.
Yeah.
A lot of feels.
You know what else is an important topic.
I want to mention before we go.
Oh my gosh.
Is we are having a kind of listener response episode.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
So if you hear this episode and you would like your comment or your experience to be
shared pertaining to one of the topics we talked about in a previous episode you can
write in or was it podcast at mindful poly dot com.
Yes.
Is the email.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And we will read it.
We'll take the ones we like the most and we'll read it.
Yes.
In that it's going to be one of our final episodes of the season.
We have a couple of special episodes playing for the end.
And that's one of them.
So we're soliciting viewer response.
Yeah.
All right.
Good.
As the door opens and the footsteps clatter.
And the mom is called.
Hi Sonny.
Okay.
Bye.
Thank you for coming.
I don't know.
It was very it was very much similar to if you keep making that face you'll get stuck
that way.
You know like it wasn't that it wasn't that but it was a thing dad say you know.
And I was like oh.
It came out of you without you realizing.
It just popped up out of me and I suddenly related to my parents a little bit deeper
of a level.