Hi.
Mindful Poly.
Yeah.
Welcome back.
We missed you.
Is this your first time?
Hello, nice to meet you.
This is not your first time.
You're looking really nice today.
I mean.
What?
Yeah, whoever you are.
I'm into it.
Oh, you look awesome.
Yes.
Yeah.
Keep it up.
We're so happy you're here.
So today we're talking about coming out.
Yeah.
Specifically at work.
Yeah.
We're going to be doing a lot of work.
So this is coming out.
Yeah.
Specifically at work.
At work.
This is part of our coming out series.
So you recently had an event at work.
Mm-hm.
That was sort of felt like a coming out moment for you, right?
Oh, the open house.
Yeah.
Yeah, it really was.
So after remodeling the new facility and putting lots of time and money and effort into it,
they want to show off.
So they're like family and friends night, bring your families.
You can take them around and show them all the cool stuff in our new facility.
And you're like, I have one of those.
Yeah, I have a family.
There's also going to be trunk-or-treating because this was around Halloween sometime
in October.
So I thought, oh, Sunny might also really enjoy that.
Yeah.
So.
She loves her some candy.
So I asked if you wanted to be my date basically to this family gathering at work.
And how did you feel about it when I asked you?
I was excited.
Yeah.
I mean, my company is even smaller than yours.
And we'll talk a little bit about my experience soon.
But my company never does things.
I don't ever get to bring people to a thing or invite people to a thing.
And so to get invited to a thing, like it's just, I hear about other companies doing,
and I hear about other people getting to go to their partner's things.
And I just don't get to do it very much.
And if you had done something with Elliot or for Elliot's job, it would just be normal
because you're married.
Well, I would still feel, I don't know.
I think it would feel exactly the same.
Like I would feel excited to get to go to a thing.
Oh, wow.
Okay.
So this is just a rare occurrence at all.
In my life.
In general.
Okay, cool.
I don't think I was quite aware of that.
Oh, yeah.
I just don't, yeah.
Neither I nor partners that I've had have had companies that hold events and invite
families.
But it was amazing.
It was so much fun.
Most people were just like, had no idea that anything was going on because the way I chose
to handle it was I would introduce you as my partner.
And this is your, I didn't say it was my daughter.
I said this is your daughter.
Did you say that?
I mean, I don't even feel like you introduced, you just, I don't even think people asked.
I think we just like went around and they were like, oh, hey, you look happy.
For the most part, if you see someone you don't recognize walking around with someone
you do recognize, you assume they're family.
Yeah.
I think that's how most of the interactions felt to me.
Right.
We played mono on TV basically.
Yeah.
Yes.
Everyone was just assuming we were a family.
Just to clarify that term, that's like a phrase we like to use.
I don't know if it's a widely used one, but-
Playing mono on TV.
Yeah.
Like I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV.
Right, right, right.
Yeah.
I'm not mono, but I look like-
Well, it's passing.
I can pass it.
Yeah.
We definitely passed for a family unit.
Right.
The tour was fun.
I gave a really good tour.
Yeah.
Sunny was excited and wanted to see parts of the building again.
I want to go up to that window.
She started out really shy, which is usually her way.
And then when you started showing her around, I think it kind of clicked for her that you
were sharing this important part of your world that she hadn't seen before.
And I think she got pretty into it.
Yeah.
The big moments that happened for me were introducing you to a couple people.
I think I at least got something out of it, even though they didn't seem to react.
They didn't know they were meeting someone super in strange circumstances, because we
didn't announce to anyone that you're my partner.
But my supervisor, who gave me curtains for my new apartment and knew I had a divorce
recently, was just like, oh, hey, nice to see you.
They're just totally normal, totally great.
But when we were ready to go home, I wanted to say goodbye to my boss, who happened to
be standing next to the CEO and owner of the company, respectively, the very powerful people
at my job.
The VPs.
And then Sunny got shy again.
I don't know if Sunny knew they were like the bosses.
She might have read your vibe.
I don't know.
You think?
Yeah.
She's a pretty intuitive kid.
And the thing that we talked about so much afterwards was Sunny hid behind me and kind
of held onto my legs.
And my secret fear of most interactions when we are in public and I'm spending time with
you and Sunny and even you and Sunny and Elliot is someone's going to figure out that I'm
not her dad.
That I'm, I don't know.
I have that anxiety the most when I am spending solo time with Sunny and like we're go pick
up Chinese food or something.
And then they want to tell me how cute my daughter is.
And I'm just like, well, thank you.
They just most some people not correct them.
Right.
Not correct them.
And I had the anxiety way more earlier on when Sunny and I were still getting to know
each other and building that trust initially because I just thought it was like at any
moment it could crack and they could choose to cry and make a scene and then say something
about you're not my real dad or you know, like, like you've seen in movies, right?
Like those are just awfulizations in my mind.
Just anxiety dreams that aren't real haven't happened, but I'm just worried that it might.
And then I have to explain that no, but I am dating their mother and their mother knows
that I'm taking them out to get food.
And this is all like a, everything's okay.
Everything's okay.
But this time when I went to go talk to my boss and my CEO and the owner, all Sunny did
was this small body language.
Oh my gosh.
Like I I'm tearing up about it right now.
Like telling the story again, because it meant so much to me to have Sunny's trust that way.
And it made me feel safe in front of these people that have some sway over my livelihood.
Yeah.
They could just fire me if they decide they don't like my monogamy because we're in a
state where that they don't have to give a reason.
I mean, and we're not really a protected, we're not really a protected group.
Like if someone fires you because they don't like non monogamy, like I don't know what
recourse you really have.
We'd be blazing that trail.
We're sharing our experiences about coming out at work, not so that you feel badly because
you haven't.
This is not something that's expected or that anyone needs to do.
It is purely, it felt right to me.
So I decided to go and do it at the time.
We and we and we we thought through the you know, you and I both together talked about
the pros and cons of this idea.
I mean, I think anyone considering coming out at work kind of has to take a moment and
consider like what what are the good things that could happen as a result of this and
what are the negative things that could happen?
So that was one that we talked about.
Like, okay, let's let's just worst case scenario this.
I like to short circuit my awful izations by thinking about like what what's the worst
that could happen and the worst that could happen in this situation is that you lose
your job, right?
Yeah.
I mean, the pretty bad.
Yeah, which is a big deal.
I mean, for anybody.
And I was very nervous.
Yeah.
Doing this.
But so we talked about that.
We talked about what would happen.
Okay.
Let's say you lost your job.
Well, you probably would have trouble affording your apartment.
Yeah.
And then you you know, we talked about that you could come move in with me until you get
back on your feet or however long you need.
And that kind of I don't know, I think sometimes just thinking that through it can kind of it's
not like you're going to be homeless.
It's not like you're not you're going to go hungry.
You know, you have that safety net there.
Like there are protections in place.
Yes.
I was very fortunate, very thankful to have those.
Yeah.
And I think what I think was probably other than just where I'm at in my journey after
four year or say six or seven years in nominogamy and like four years dating you and building
up this polycule, that felt like the math worked out this time.
Like at this point, I reached a tipping point where I felt safe enough that I just went
ahead and did it.
I think if you'd asked me three years ago, I would have probably hesitated more.
Yeah.
Not known if I could have done that.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
And one of the whole reasons to do this at all is that we were both interested in is
the just being a positive advocate for nominogamy for polyamory, like being good examples and
using our relative positions of safety to like just be more visible in society because
we're trying to normalize it.
Yeah.
And we're in a unique position where we can, you know, if we need to take a hit, we could.
So like this is a powerful opportunity to like make it known, get it out there.
Like someone you know might be polyamorous.
So we've talked a little bit about some of the pros and cons.
Yep.
Okay.
There's the really blatant one, which is you get legitimately fired, but just as big really
would be like lower level things that you might not be able to pick up on.
So it might be that someone knows you're poly and kind of passes you over for a promotion
opportunity or soft rejection.
Yeah.
Treats you differently in the workplace or stop inviting me to lunches.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
It would have been very disorienting and painful to realize that my relationships had changed.
Yeah.
Because of this new information they learned about me.
And I think it'd be harder to pin down to, it'd be harder to push back against because
you might not, you know, if you get passed over for a raise, it's like, well, is it just
because I, you know, really wasn't up to par or-
It's hard to prove.
Is there something more going on there?
Yeah.
But on the pro side, to balance that out, I mean, there's like-
Living your authentic life.
Yeah.
And I also think one thing I experienced in my own story was the chance to build a stronger
connection with the people.
You spend a lot of your day with these people that you work with.
Yeah.
And like when you're vulnerable enough to share something personal like that with them,
then it gives you a chance to build a little stronger connection and build a little bit
more trust.
And I mean, if it goes well, it's an opportunity for those things, which is pretty valuable
too.
So I also had a chance recently to come out.
This is part of why we picked this as a topic.
Yeah.
So we both had something to share.
Yeah.
So we have a client that we've been working with for a while, mostly me.
It's mostly me that's been working with them.
And so yeah, I've been working with them and have a really great relationship with them.
They really, really love the work I do.
And they are having an anniversary party also.
So you know, I got the invite and in my mind, I'm immediately thinking about all the people
I'd love to bring, you know, if a big picture world, I'd bring you, I'd bring Elliot, I'd
bring Stevie, you know, like, I think that'd be amazing.
And you really get the opportunity to RSVP for so many.
So I pull it up and it allows me to RSVP for three.
Wow.
And I'm like, opportunity.
What?
Like, this is unheard of.
Like you always just get your plus one, but I get a plus two basically.
Well, the plus one is so steeped in monogamous assumption.
And I don't know, I still don't know why they offered this, but I immediately thought, oh
my gosh, like it would be so, I would love to take Fox and Elliot.
I could bring two dates.
That would be a dream come true.
I would love, I mean, to get to share this fancy dinner that I, you know, so rarely get
invited to with these two people that are so important to me, like, it would be incredible.
So I decided to, especially since this is a client, this isn't actually my company itself.
I think that'll be a little bit more straightforward, but since it was a client, I kind of felt
like if I want to get to the place where I feel okay accepting this invite with two partners,
then I need to also come out at my actual company first and verify that they aren't
concerned about the impact that would have with this client.
And so this is something that, you know, I think would it be something to think about
if you're going to have this kind of conversation where you're coming out to really anyone,
but we'll say at work.
I wanted to be very intentional about how I presented this information because I know
there have been times in the past when I've come out as other things come out as like
an atheist or come out as, you know, things that I'm worried about being accepted about,
like having tattoos or things that are, I don't know, culturally people have feelings
about and sometimes I in the past would present it as like, well, you know, there's this thing
I want to tell you about and I'm immediately in my demeanor and energy.
I'm just offering like that I'm shamed that I'm expecting this to you to not take this
well.
Yeah.
And I'm almost, I think without realizing it, you can almost be like telling someone
how to feel when you give them that you kind of leading the witness.
Yeah.
I think I can recreate what I said for the most part here.
So I came in there and I was like, and my boss asked if I was going to go to that event
and I said, yeah, I definitely am.
I've already got a sitter lined up for Sunny.
But I noticed that I'm allowed to bring two people instead of just one, which is kind
of unusual.
And this hasn't really ever come up before because we don't really have events here for
family, but Elliot and I are not monogamous and we never have been.
And we've spent many years now building a family of people that we really care about.
We make meals together, we go on trips together.
And I have one partner in particular I've been with for over four years that I would
also like to bring to something like this.
And I recognize that this client is more traditional and that this is a less traditional lifestyle
choice that I've made, the way that I'm structuring my family and leading my life.
And so I said, I just want to be sensitive to the fact that they are a little bit more
traditional and I want to be respectful of how they might feel about something like that.
And I would like your opinion on how best to approach this.
So that's where I left it.
That was a tricky needle to thread.
I think you did a really great job with your statement.
I felt really good about it.
I feel like if I were going to give people advice about coming out, I think if you present
it in that way where you're like, here's this perfectly normal, happy, healthy thing I'm
doing, it's harder for them to react negatively.
I think you give them less window.
So to finish that story, the advice he basically gave me is like, I think you're thinking about
this really well and I think you should do what you think is right.
That's a great reaction.
Thanks, boss.
I know.
I think I felt that sort of as a...
Also he went away and thought about it for a little bit and then came back to you and
said that.
I thought, that's nice too.
He really considered it.
He did.
And so I have decided to do it because there's a lot of reasons why.
One of them is kind of like what we were just talking about is like when you present it
in a way where it's hard to get upset about, then I think that just...
I don't know.
What people are going to see at this event, I'm imagining in my mind, is like three people
who are totally comfortable together, very happy, very relaxed, clearly having a good
time.
Dressed amazingly.
Yeah.
Looking dapper.
I can't imagine seeing that and not just thinking that, okay.
I think anything you might think like, oh, I'm worried about this person or did they
get coerced into that or is someone here unhappy?
Everything you would see would counteract any of those fears you might have.
Do you want to share a recent story you had about coming out on a more one-on-one level?
There was a conversation I was having with someone I consider a friend, like a real friend
at work.
They work remotely and they were visiting that week, so we don't have a lot of in-person
time.
But we were excited because we're also chess-playing partners.
I will often send screenshots of our latest games to each other and be like, check out
this win.
And we're encouraging each other to learn the game.
And then I saw him talking to another coworker about chess.
And then I joked with him directly, oh, so you're like cheating on me with other chess
players?
And he's like, well, if I was polyamorous, it wouldn't be a problem.
And I'm like, actually, it's funny you say that because I am polyamorous and it isn't
a problem.
And he goes, oh, that's great.
I know someone that's like that too.
I would be if my partner was into it.
I'm like, oh, okay, cool.
He was just like so...
We didn't skip a beat.
We had our rapport down.
And so this little revelation about my personal life was just, he's like, oh, okay, cool.
This is normal.
Which, I mean, and kind of going back to that idea of the more we normalize it, I mean,
part of why it was normalized for him is that he had already interacted with someone else.
Yes, exactly.
I mean, he was right there with a poly joke, even though he's not poly.
Coming out of work.
Tell us in the comments how your experience went.
Did you have something similar happen to you?
Yeah, or what is your pros and cons list?
Yeah.
What's your math look like?
Yeah.
I want to know.
So thanks for joining us.
This has been Mindful Poly, an episode about coming out of work.
I'm Fox.
I'm Nova.
Bop bop bop bop.
I'm sounding good in my ears.
I am fashioning a coaster out of tissues.
Classy bitch.
I'm so classy.
And now we are good to go.